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My mom is a therapist and one of her patients told her about Undertale and that she should play it. She then told me about it and I told her that literally everyone knows about this game and then I played it and my brother also played it and then she played it. We all love that game. Even though mom doesn't really play video games, she loved it because it was good.
Most people remember Undertale for the embarrassing moments that it influenced the fanbase to do. But, it's still amazing how much influence it had. Undertale & other great games are plenty of proof that you can create a successful game without relying on poor business practices.
I wouldn't say most people, either. Definitely a lot of them, but there is also a big fraction that played the game and either didn't get into the fandom or were able to separate the game from it and enjoy Undertale for what it is
Great video. Another reason why Undertale was so successful was because of its unique 4th wall breaks and the game being aware of every action you do (Even if you kill just one monster), you would be called out by the game. Also its interesting inspiration from text adventure games back in the day, and lots of passion Its insane an Earthbound fan cultivated a giant fandom that can rival Nintendo's and Sega's. In fact, some people make many different versions of characters and place them in alternate universes (AUs). Even animations of Sans Boss fight get over 100 million views. Undertale has also inspired many fangames, but one that stands out is Undertale Yellow, which takes place before Frisk falls and you play as the yellow soul and its just as charming and emotional as Undertale. It took 7 years of development for this Undertale Yellow game to be released. Thats how passionate the fandom is Also, Undertale isn't just a one shot success. Toby has made Deltarune, which follows similar style to Undertale but slightly different combat system and new characters. Also, it took 3 years to release Deltarune Chapter 2, and its still worth the wait. Most of the stuff doesnt feel out of place or filler. Most games (especially AAA games) just rush out their game and release it in the most buggy and unfinished quality for the quick bucks. "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad" - Shigeru Miyamoto
Yea,, it subverts expectation of the world cohesiveness and the save/load function. Also I don't know if yellow really stands out, since it's influence has just started and we are yet to see what it does to fandom. Unless you mean the ruins yellow part, which maybe is true? Did it inspire all those other au ruins projects? Probably.
@@theepic1944 idk what you exactly mean by downfall, but isn't having fandom by itself means the game is alive? And why do you think Undertale fandom is the decline? If we won't take things that happened 6 years ago.
Overall a neat video, but I feel like there are some things that were deperately missing from it, so to provide some important context: - the fact that Undertale has the option to spare the enemy and the game reacts accordingly is NOT new, that alone is not what captivated so many people. It is the combination of this with easy to pick up and get charmed by character writing and overall narrative, the sheer amount of polish in the games writing and how many different small dialogues can be triggered by doing things in a very specific order as well as the indirect but easily recognisable aknowledgement of the player of the game being an important part of the puzzle. So much so that many people whle doing no mercy blame what they decided to do on Frosk or Chara out of their own volition, because they felt that bad for Undertale's characters. The "fight or spare" mechanic would not be as captivating as it is without these other things supporting it and while you ofc mentioned the game's writing I felt like it was implied that the battle mechanics are the main part of the gameplay's success - it is a tad strange to hear someone say every part of Undertale is polished when Toby Fox himself has stated that on multiple occasions when an asset from a contributor lookded "too good" he made a slightly crappier version to lower the players' expectations. Sure, a lot of the art of Undertale IS pretty, but that prettyness is inconsistent, sometimes even on purpose - small nitpick: I would've chosen something different than two sans fights as the sole representation of fangames in the video, but what works works i guess - and finally there is a strange absence of any mention of homestuck in this video...? The Kickstarter didn't blow up out of nowhere and Toby certainly didn't ONLY do ROM Hacks of Earthbound before UT. He was one of the most well knwon musicians for Homestuck, a comic with a MASSIVE fanbase at the time of the Kickstarter. Toby already HAD a sizeable audience, he was mostly known for his work on Homestuck at the time. That pool of initial supporters was mainly comprised of Homestuck fans! I mean, even one of the rewards was for "your fantroll to be in the game" (with a fantroll being a fanmade homestuck troll character) which eventually turned into So Sorry. So yeah, I thought it was odd to say that Toby had nothing going for him when he began the Kickstarter.
I agree on that last point. I always thought that Undertale being one of the Notable Indie Games came from the boost it got from the Homestuck Fandom. It's likely where everyone went, as HS was in the middle of its "gigapause" (or was it "omegapause", whatever), so they were a little desperate for new material at the time.
@@ajbXYZcool the kickstarter started in june of 2013, the gigapause started on october 13th 2013, so itwas actually both of the pauses you mentioned oh and i just wanted to clarify for anyone elsd: i know eventually UT fandom surpassed Homestuck, i'm aware, what i was saying was that the initial group of kickstarter supporters mostly came from HS fandom as far as im aware
Great video! Thank you for highlighting such a beautiful game. I found it interesting how you mentioned about Toby Fox' passion and vision. I am a gamedev and games are always a collaborative effort (even if you are a solo dev, most likely you've used an engine created by an entire group of people). However, creativity is many times driven by a single or a few minds when it comes to the main vision, and that's also an important aspect, depending on the game. Especially when you are trying to present something new and innovative. I'm also making videos here on RUclips and it's great to see that we don't always have to talk about the latest thing. We can go back and pay homage to some incredible games and teams at any time.
Undertale had a dream and it did that. That's what made it so unique. They didn't make it to make money, they made it because they wanted to create something new. That's what everyone also felt. AAA companies just want to make money, indie devs want to make an actual game. Some fail, some succeed. And I'm sure we are all glad untertale succeeded
I bought the Collectors Edition because I wanted to support them and always dreamed about getting that heart locket. When i saw that there was the game inside of the Collectors Edition. I gave it to my brother so he could play it.....well he never touched it because "It's not something he wants to play". I just wish he could experience it by himself but every time i try to convince him to play it, he just refuses it. I remember that he enjoyed "Spear of Justice" as a Theme but now he wont even try to play it for himself which really upsets me ;T
Undertale is a fantastic first time experience, but the replay value when you've seen every ending you care about is severely lacking, and this boils down primarily to the combat system and the way the routes are handled. Most players will play the Neutral route first. Maybe they start playing the game like it's any other game and kill a few enemies before settling into a determined drive not to kill anymore, or maybe they only resort to killing when they find an enemy too difficult to beat otherwise. Whatever the personal situation, if you're going in blind you're probably going to kill at least one enemy at some point for whatever reason and end up on this route. There's many variations of the Neutral route's endings, which is where the majority of the replay value in the game comes from. "What if I did this part differently?" will drive players to do playthrough after playthrough just to see more. Eventually most players will probably experience the Pacifist ending, which ultimately by then amounts to a similar gameplay experience as Neutral but longer and without any killing. It's flashy but contains probably the most egregious example of a boss fight you can't lose in the game in the form of what is quite literally the final boss. And then there's the Genocide route. This is the route that singlehandedly most resembles a "game" in the entire experience, which is a shame since it's also the only route where you're actually punished for achieving the ending. Every other route's gameplay becomes hollow when you've already experienced the story before. Once you know the enemy patterns you don't really have anything left to challenge you, and with no new story content to experience there's no longer much in the way of value even in just experiencing that. In Genocide however, the challenge is cranked way up and you start having to becoming far more skilled and efficient. It's the only route in the game that retains its replay value in that the challenge provided by it is always engaging, and it's also the only route designed to shame you and make you feel like garbage for taking it. It's for that reason that I feel like Undertale is a fundamentally flawed experience. It's a wonderful first time experience but an increasingly hollow and eventually patronizing experience that loses its initial magic the more you play it. It goes from feeling like like a Studio Ghibli film type experience to being just another cleared entry in the ol' backlog. From what I have played of Deltrarune so far, I feel like Toby probably shares much the same sentiment and dissatisfaction with Undertale and seeks to fix this exact problem. The gameplay manages to be much more skill based and engaging at a much more consistent basis without you having to do anything to make you feel bad for doing it. I truly can't praise Toby and everyone else involved enough for what Deltarune seems to be shaping up to be, and I truly hope it manages to capture the magic that Undertale was going for in a more permanent way.
Great analysis. But honestly, the replay value part hits the hardest. Undertale gets REALLY boring after playing it a few times-- as eventually you'll run out of things to find. But I guess that is why it shames you so much in the genocide route as we did it because we were curious-- it gives you many chances to opt out. Undertale honestly was generally a attempt at making a subversive RPG that goes against what to expect from one.
@@eeereno2259 I didn't want to stretch out my initial comment too long so it was cut, but I do take issue in particular with the way the Genocide route shames you. The game is outright designed in such a way as to directly encourage you to experience every ending possible, to see all the content there is to see. If doing the Genocide route last, the player is likely even going to have some sort of feeling along the lines of there being some kind of redemption at the end or something, and in particular the fact that it's the only way to meet Chara could give the player the feeling that the only way to redeem them in particular is to take the genocide path so that you can get to them. Then not only does this not turn out to be the case, but after all the trials and tribulations you go through to reach the Genocide ending you're not just patronized for it but are actively punished by the Pacifist ending getting changed to take away your happy ending. It's largely for this reason that I feel so much better about the gameplay in Deltarune. The gameplay seems to be condensed down into a compromise in which regardless of whether you choose to attack or spare, there's genuine skill involved in victory beyond just pattern recognition and you don't have to worry about the game treating you like a bad person for your preferred playstyle. It feels like a more realized attempt at what Undertale was going for to me.
Is replay value that important? And I am going to be honest, I thought the main point of undertale was not getting too attached. The final message of every route was basically telling you to fuck off and do something outside playing the game, if you do anything too clingy. The genocide route is basically the final form of that sentiment.
@@ryanergo754 Not everyone is satisfied with just playing through a game partially or only playing through once and then never touching it again. The issue that I'm talking about specifically is that the game punishes you for completing it and very easily becomes hollow if you ever decide to come back to it for another playthrough at some point later. It's a great first time experience but very difficult to return to. Games are not friends, they're entertainment media. There's no such thing as being too clingy with them. While it is generally a good idea to not spend all your time playing games and to do things with other people or just spend time working out, doing chores, etc. it's not up to the games we play how we decide to go about allocating that time, and it's certainly not their place to deliberately punish us for just trying to have fun and see all the content there is to see.
My steam review is in this video! I’m the person who originally thought it was about sexy skeletons and refused to play it for years (though if you read my full review it’s clear that wasn’t actually my ultimate takeaway, lmao). This was crazy to see!
Probably because the right people played the random indie game and spread the word. That's what happened to Fall Guys over a year after the game came out: the right streamers found the game and spread the word.
This game pushed me into making my own music and indie game dev. It will always hold a special place in my heart. It wasn't a game. It was an experience. A beautiful, unique experience that I never want to forget.
Please try Dead Cells It's a good game, I swear It's an amazing game with some of the best 2D combat and lore I have ever seen with constant and substantial updates and an 9.5 IGN rating but still fall behind Hades even though both are amazing games. Please try it you won't regret it.
The image you use for Toby Fox (2:00) is not actually him lol. It's from the LinkedIn of a guy who looks similar, and shares some similar qualities, but it definitely not him when you go to his website which is linked to his profile.
It's charming game for it's characters although I still can't really tell what they did different with their characters compared to other games. I think it blew up not because of the charm though but because of the unexpected depth in the game, it made the fans go rabid for it ultimately harming everybody's image of it for years. I find Hades to have done something similar to Toby Fox in this case, they picked a genre that they had a lot nitpicks with and decided to simply change them, Hades is a roguelite game, at the core of the genre is permadeath, yet Hades found a way to make every run feel meaningful and helped you work towards something. Roguelite is a spin-off genre of roguelikes that were meant to add meta-progression and remove the grid turn-based combat but even then, no-one was able to make it feel like you were progressing a story with every run. TLDR; I talk about how Undertale has inspired my next game and what makes Undertale's characters charming whilst I try to figure out how to make charming characters for my game... I actually don't like JRPGs, the combat always bores me, I call it "number trading" and I prefer something more engaging or to just not have any combat. So when i find out Undertale was a bullet hell JRPG, i was mind-blown and decided to get the game. I've always wanted to like JRPGs, I constantly try them but the combat always throws me off, so imma take a page of out Toby's and Supergiant's book and make a game in the genre and just change what I don't like about it. Respectfully, I'm a new developer and the only form of combat system ive made is a bullet hell one, im quite proud of it but i never got to use it so i'll use it on this game, but dont think for a second imma straight up copy good old Toby, because i also dont like JRPG menus, i sketched an idea a few months ago when i started this project, i essentially found away to bring the UI into the battlefield without breaking immersion. There's so many other nitpicks I have with the genre that I've found a fair solution for that doesn't entirely break the genre. I wanted to like JRPGs sooooo bad so that's why I've decided to make one instead of just making a genre I like and am familiar with like roguelites or metroidvanias or shooters. I have to say though, I am really struggling to write charming characters, like how am I meant to know when I succeed? What makes Undertale's characters charming? Is it the flaws that we love? Their humour? Perhaps the way every character is so full of life? Can't be because they feel real, because they don't... but they are so full of life, i like that answer, they're more than they need to be. Undyne could've just been a knight that fights you and then dies, but no, you become friends, you burn her house down together, papyrus instigated it, none of that has any plot significance, but we love it, it expanded what could've been a shallow character, while nobody would burn down their house, Undyne's struggle to accept you in the beginning is a real trait, so I guess maybe the characters are kinda real, if only by a singular trait eg humour, distrust, regret, love, etc. Real people are far more complex and harder to understand, real people are rarely ever as charming, maybe it's how they tackle their realistic traits in an unrealistic way. They are quick to challenge not just you but themselves, they're open-minded, able to change when needed, even flowey. Or maybe it really is just the silliness of the whole game. I can't put my finger on why Undertale's characters are charming, I can't seem to create charming characters, maybe it 's all of it, just a bunch of tiny unimportant things that work well together. That was something you said in the video, I guess it also applies to my question. I've seen how Toby starts designing his characters, he starts them off as silly and doesn't isolate them either, he thinks of how they interact with not you, but other characters, they exist outside of our playthrough. Whereas ive been starting my characters off quite seriously, thinking about the role they will play and the relationship with other characters, not how they interact with those characters. Excluding the king and queen in my game because I wanted them to be two peas in a pod, two wildly intimidating characters with an interesting positive/negative magnetic personalities, they exist within each other. The only two characters I want to keep and I think I've successfully made charming in their own respect. I'll try starting my next character off as goofy, even if they meant to have an important role, i need to show they have a personality and aren't shallow, then when writing the story, I'll make you have to earn their trust before you can see them let their guard down and be human. Writing good fiction is hard bruh, I should've gone with a more programming and game design focused genre.
About the discord... Me and my brother are planning to become game developers by him being the programmer and me being the artist/other stuff but he is still learning in college so my question being... Should I already start to make the characters and the places in design or should I wait?
Of course we gotta talk about Undertale now that Yellow has been released to critical acclaim. That's another thing too; the fanbase may be strange in places, but they also can make some of the most dedicated high effort fan games as well, which really speaks volumes to how good the base game is. Even Toby Fox basically said "yeah, that's pretty much how it happened" to Yellow, which makes sense considering the attention to detail, all released for free, with lovable characters, three different content rich routes and extensive programming. Plus, the awesome retro themed music that I particularly love in Undertale and some of its fangames.
Well i just want to say that sometime Indie games can become successful, but the truth is that there are so many failed indie games that are actually deserve better, and that's the harsh truth of indie games. And also, in 6:19 why CIA showed in your video?
Undertale Omori and the mother series are the only rpgs that i truly care about not beacuse of the gameplay but beacuse of the beatifully written characters, amazing story telling and unforgattable moments i'm glad that Undertale didn't failed cause without it i wouldn't appreciate rpgs like i do today
@@QSBraWQ They have really relatable characters, the worlds are designed to be literally down to earth so you can see yourself in the characters. The music and gameplay is awesome, and the storytelling is really good. Mother 3 is one of four games that have ever made me cry
@@goose7618 honestly sounds like disco Elysium so far. But what message does it have? What is it trying to say or answer? Like, Undertale had answer to meaning of life. So what the mother series mean?
I played the game while an Elementary schooler in online school during the initial 2020 pandemic. I was kinda lazy and didn’t feel like reading all the dialogue and kinda just skimmed through it quickly, but even doing that I still left the game feeling great. The entirety of my school semester during covid I was so obsessed with everything UnderTale. I loved every character, watched the fan animations, watched the comic dubs, looked at fanart, and spent way too many hours on the certain bosses. But still, every second playing the game felt great for some reason. I actually imagined myself in the world and how I would actually react to meeting the characters before going to bed, and even had a dream about fighting Sans. My only regret with UnderTale is not reading all the dialogue and playing with spoilers (I heard Megalovania and watched the Sans fight on RUclips before playing). If I could, I would erase my memories of the game and play 100% spoiler free, and actually read every line of dialogue.
Its so funny how this video goes on about how unlikely Undertale's success was and how that risky success was so unlikely and goes against all the previous advice hes given in video and never once mentions how TobyFox's work and connections with the comic Homestuck - which was incredibly popular within the Tumblr space for a few years - gave UT pretty much a built in fanbase from the getgo even if it didnt make it past Tumblr
About the risk - well, you don't take the risk with your tentpole release. The problem is, when these studios do not have also "indie" releases to try new stuff and see what lands to make it into a tentpole remake, for example.
The thing holding me back from getting Undertale is how getting one of the endings apparently ruins any future playthrough you might do. If it wasn't for that I'd check it out.
It’s not really like thaaat, you’d have to REALLY go out of your way to get THAT ending i doubt you’d get it on your first or even second play through if you go in blindly. It doesn’t really ruin any future runs tho, it just gives you a little reality check at the end of one of them, so you don’t go on your merry way pretending like you didn’t go out of your way to get THAT ending and don’t pretend it never happened! I think that “reality check” alteration to the ending is narratively awesome and deserved as well as helping you to recontextualise several characters’ behaviours and perhaps understand and see yourself through them more. OR FEEL GUILTY I DUNNO
getting that ending is so incredibly dificult ive never seen anyone get it accidentaly, and it doesnt really ruin any other ending just changes a small thing at the end
Eh... No? It's weird watching a video that seems so sure of itself when it sounds totally ignorant from the perspective of someone who was there when it was a KS. I had absolutely no doubt Undertale was going to be a success, because it had a built-in fanbase jumping over to it from Homestuck (not long before that series fell through, really), the fans of which had prominence on number of major websites like Tumblr and 4chan, allowing word of it to spread like wildfire, especially with its successful and compelling demo. Like, damn, I guess you're trying to sell a narrative, but you're kind of just making shit up.
I agree with every point in this video except the game not having an audience. A lot of people don't realize this but Toby actually had an advantage that no one attributes to the games success: The Honestuck community: The game released its kickstarter during a mega hiatus in Homestucks release schedule, and Toby, being a part of that community, had a ton of their attention due to the lack of content. Undertale had very adjacent humor to Homestuck and the rest is history
I'm a game developper and I spent a year working on this project and I finally published the official trailer on my channel I think I'm not famous enough to appear on a big youtube channel but I'm still trying ;-; also I'm 15
Reminder that Toby also worked on Homestuck before Undertale. I'm not a Homestuck fan, I know really nothing about it other than it's insanely hard to understand and was an online series and web comic, but it's definitely impressive that Toby worked on 2, now 3, big deal projects.
To be specific, he was one of the people who worked on music for Homestuck, and knew the creator, Andrew Hussie, personally. As for what Homestuck was, to keep it brief, it was a webcomic about 4 kids who played a weird computer game that ends the world, get involved with alien trolls who have a strange culture, and time travel is a game mechanic. At least one alternate universe is explored and in Canon. That kind of weird stuff.
Hello, for anyone reading this comment, I just want you to consider a different perspective on the game, while still respecting your opinions, also if u haven't touch the game, this could help ya to be aware of it. Toby fox is indeed a great composer in music and game mechanics, but there´re bad things about undertale we don´t pay attention. Over the years, I've learned from this game, from my adolescence to adulthood, and I'm writing this to express myself and be honest. The game is toxic and manipulative not because it evokes emotions, but because of how it generates them and uses them to convey a harmful message. A video game can tell a story that aims to evoke emotions and create a moral lesson, but there are two ways to do this: either you narrate a story with well-crafted characters whose interactions, both among themselves and with the player, build genuinely emotional moments, or you artificially create those emotions in the player using cheap tricks like emojis, melancholic landscapes, cloying music, and "emotional" phrases that are extremely generic. It's very easy to tell when a story is doing this; just remove those elements and seriously think about what you're seeing and what's happening. If what the game is making you feel doesn't correspond to what's actually happening when you think about it critically, then I'm afraid you're being manipulated. Undertale's story is manipulative because it seeks to make you laugh, cry, or be scared, not because it's well-constructed, but because it simply wants your attention and high regard. It's literally forcing you to feel the way it wants you to feel without thoughtful consideration. Undertale is brimming with moments that aim for artificial emotions, and in manipulating the player's emotions, it fills their mind with harmful messages that they absorb almost unconsciously. Specifically, the idea that you have to forgive people who are harming you or others because deep down they're pitiful, and if you defend yourself, you're the bad guy. This message appears in many media forms like anime, soap operas, and even many political and religious leaders espouse it, and it's tremendously damaging for those who practice it, leading to extreme conformity, demonizing others' actions without considering the context, and letting oneself be trampled by everyone in pursuit of a senseless ideal. Considering this, it makes a lot of sense that the fandom has behaved horribly towards others (including threats, insults, harassment, or even attempts to harm those who don't play the game "the right way" like Markiplier incident). Even those who enjoy the game without thinking about all this are assimilating and internalizing totally harmful morals and life philosophies that will ultimately mess up their lives in one way or another. That's what the whole issue of the toxicity of the game is about-its ability to manipulate your feelings so that you absorb toxic messages without realizing that you're doing so.
the meta narrative of undertale is there for a reason. the logic of the game does NOT acknowledge you as a normal human child, it acknowledges you as a god-like being with the power to manipulate time who can bring about any outcome for the underground. it's up to you whether you use your power for evil or good. why do you think sans is the one who judges your actions? it's because he's the one who knows you have your ability, and he knows you can do better if you want to use your abilities for better. undertale's message is not "be pacifist no matter the circumstance", it's "if you have the power to do good, use it for good". also this "artificial emotion" thing is pretentious as all hell. the entire point of the game is to pit you against a hostile world, the game expects you to defend yourself. then game then breaks the fourth wall and tries to make you reflect, whether you as a god could give these characters a better ending. it's supposed to humanize them but show their flaws, and as a god who can rewind any consequences, you are able to do this with no risk. undertale is NOT asking you to be defenseless in the face of danger, it's asking you to make an effort to use your god-like power to understand and save the monsters you fought along your journey
I don't think it goes THAT deep but yeah, the whole games theming breaks down when you realize that with the exception of the genocide route the main message of the game is just "be nice, killing bad." Despite the fact that it's done in self defense. And even then the whole save and reload thing, and heck most morality "the fate of the world is in your hands" in almost every game I know at least for me doesn't strike a chord. Mainly because it's all just code and nothing's stopping you from just resetting or modifying game files. And even then the characters are just simple. Nothing to it that hasn't been done before. They aren't flat but the way the game forces your sympathy is heavy handed especially with its length and the fact that the characters mostly just have one main personality trait. Like every other popular game it's only "THE BEST GAME EVER" because of bandwagoning. AKA: others say it's good therefore it's good. (Like Nintendo games or Elden Ring) It has good traits on its own but nothing that would make it a 10/10 if it went for peer pressure and the internet fandom drowning out any actual criticism.
Thanks guys for watching 😁 we plan to make videos on more indie games in 2024, as well as make videos made specifically for game makers to level up. Subscribe if you want to see those videos when they come out! Here's to an amazing year for the indie space 🎉🥳
@GoingIndie Merry Christmas and New Year Cam!
I'm still wondering why this channel still hasn't even reached 100k.
Keep up the good work, and thanks for the indie recommendations!
I'd love to see you talk about Night in the Woods or Celeste.
My mom is a therapist and one of her patients told her about Undertale and that she should play it. She then told me about it and I told her that literally everyone knows about this game and then I played it and my brother also played it and then she played it. We all love that game. Even though mom doesn't really play video games, she loved it because it was good.
Well in the pacifist route, you're basically everyone's therapist.
I think we're all glad it didn't fail tho.
For sure
yeah undertale is pretty cool
Yes
Yea
i wish the cringe part never discovered it though but eh i can't yuck their yum like that it's not cool
Most people remember Undertale for the embarrassing moments that it influenced the fanbase to do. But, it's still amazing how much influence it had. Undertale & other great games are plenty of proof that you can create a successful game without relying on poor business practices.
I wouldn't say most people, either. Definitely a lot of them, but there is also a big fraction that played the game and either didn't get into the fandom or were able to separate the game from it and enjoy Undertale for what it is
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Great video.
Another reason why Undertale was so successful was because of its unique 4th wall breaks and the game being aware of every action you do (Even if you kill just one monster), you would be called out by the game. Also its interesting inspiration from text adventure games back in the day, and lots of passion
Its insane an Earthbound fan cultivated a giant fandom that can rival Nintendo's and Sega's. In fact, some people make many different versions of characters and place them in alternate universes (AUs). Even animations of Sans Boss fight get over 100 million views.
Undertale has also inspired many fangames, but one that stands out is Undertale Yellow, which takes place before Frisk falls and you play as the yellow soul and its just as charming and emotional as Undertale. It took 7 years of development for this Undertale Yellow game to be released. Thats how passionate the fandom is
Also, Undertale isn't just a one shot success. Toby has made Deltarune, which follows similar style to Undertale but slightly different combat system and new characters.
Also, it took 3 years to release Deltarune Chapter 2, and its still worth the wait. Most of the stuff doesnt feel out of place or filler.
Most games (especially AAA games) just rush out their game and release it in the most buggy and unfinished quality for the quick bucks.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"
- Shigeru Miyamoto
Yea,, it subverts expectation of the world cohesiveness and the save/load function.
Also I don't know if yellow really stands out, since it's influence has just started and we are yet to see what it does to fandom. Unless you mean the ruins yellow part, which maybe is true? Did it inspire all those other au ruins projects? Probably.
@@QSBraWQ Undertale Yellow stands out, because its a complete fangame
The downfall was its fandom but it did revolutionize rpg games.
@@theepic1944 idk what you exactly mean by downfall, but isn't having fandom by itself means the game is alive? And why do you think Undertale fandom is the decline? If we won't take things that happened 6 years ago.
“Some people wish they could wipe it from their memory and play it for the first time again.” I feel called out lol.
Same
True Reset be like
Same
I wish I could wipe my memory from the 2 hours I wasted in that cringe furry crap, that and my money back.
@@deadlock_problem nice have fun knowing that now you are oficialy a furry ❤️❤️
Undertale released when I was 20. It was the first steam purchase I ever made, and it was the first pc game I ever beaten. I love Undertale.
A coherent identity goes a long way to make a game enjoyable.
Something i will always appreciate about undertale is that its subversions of JRPG tropes come from a place of love for the genre instead of disdain
Overall a neat video, but I feel like there are some things that were deperately missing from it, so to provide some important context:
- the fact that Undertale has the option to spare the enemy and the game reacts accordingly is NOT new, that alone is not what captivated so many people. It is the combination of this with easy to pick up and get charmed by character writing and overall narrative, the sheer amount of polish in the games writing and how many different small dialogues can be triggered by doing things in a very specific order as well as the indirect but easily recognisable aknowledgement of the player of the game being an important part of the puzzle. So much so that many people whle doing no mercy blame what they decided to do on Frosk or Chara out of their own volition, because they felt that bad for Undertale's characters. The "fight or spare" mechanic would not be as captivating as it is without these other things supporting it and while you ofc mentioned the game's writing I felt like it was implied that the battle mechanics are the main part of the gameplay's success
- it is a tad strange to hear someone say every part of Undertale is polished when Toby Fox himself has stated that on multiple occasions when an asset from a contributor lookded "too good" he made a slightly crappier version to lower the players' expectations. Sure, a lot of the art of Undertale IS pretty, but that prettyness is inconsistent, sometimes even on purpose
- small nitpick: I would've chosen something different than two sans fights as the sole representation of fangames in the video, but what works works i guess
- and finally there is a strange absence of any mention of homestuck in this video...? The Kickstarter didn't blow up out of nowhere and Toby certainly didn't ONLY do ROM Hacks of Earthbound before UT. He was one of the most well knwon musicians for Homestuck, a comic with a MASSIVE fanbase at the time of the Kickstarter. Toby already HAD a sizeable audience, he was mostly known for his work on Homestuck at the time. That pool of initial supporters was mainly comprised of Homestuck fans! I mean, even one of the rewards was for "your fantroll to be in the game" (with a fantroll being a fanmade homestuck troll character) which eventually turned into So Sorry. So yeah, I thought it was odd to say that Toby had nothing going for him when he began the Kickstarter.
I agree on that last point. I always thought that Undertale being one of the Notable Indie Games came from the boost it got from the Homestuck Fandom. It's likely where everyone went, as HS was in the middle of its "gigapause" (or was it "omegapause", whatever), so they were a little desperate for new material at the time.
@@ajbXYZcool the kickstarter started in june of 2013, the gigapause started on october 13th 2013, so itwas actually both of the pauses you mentioned
oh and i just wanted to clarify for anyone elsd: i know eventually UT fandom surpassed Homestuck, i'm aware, what i was saying was that the initial group of kickstarter supporters mostly came from HS fandom as far as im aware
Great video! Thank you for highlighting such a beautiful game. I found it interesting how you mentioned about Toby Fox' passion and vision. I am a gamedev and games are always a collaborative effort (even if you are a solo dev, most likely you've used an engine created by an entire group of people). However, creativity is many times driven by a single or a few minds when it comes to the main vision, and that's also an important aspect, depending on the game. Especially when you are trying to present something new and innovative.
I'm also making videos here on RUclips and it's great to see that we don't always have to talk about the latest thing. We can go back and pay homage to some incredible games and teams at any time.
Undertale had a dream and it did that. That's what made it so unique. They didn't make it to make money, they made it because they wanted to create something new. That's what everyone also felt. AAA companies just want to make money, indie devs want to make an actual game. Some fail, some succeed. And I'm sure we are all glad untertale succeeded
I bought the Collectors Edition because I wanted to support them and always dreamed about getting that heart locket. When i saw that there was the game inside of the Collectors Edition. I gave it to my brother so he could play it.....well he never touched it because "It's not something he wants to play". I just wish he could experience it by himself but every time i try to convince him to play it, he just refuses it. I remember that he enjoyed "Spear of Justice" as a Theme but now he wont even try to play it for himself which really upsets me ;T
Taking risk is the best weapon against AAA studios.
Undertale is a fantastic first time experience, but the replay value when you've seen every ending you care about is severely lacking, and this boils down primarily to the combat system and the way the routes are handled.
Most players will play the Neutral route first. Maybe they start playing the game like it's any other game and kill a few enemies before settling into a determined drive not to kill anymore, or maybe they only resort to killing when they find an enemy too difficult to beat otherwise. Whatever the personal situation, if you're going in blind you're probably going to kill at least one enemy at some point for whatever reason and end up on this route. There's many variations of the Neutral route's endings, which is where the majority of the replay value in the game comes from. "What if I did this part differently?" will drive players to do playthrough after playthrough just to see more.
Eventually most players will probably experience the Pacifist ending, which ultimately by then amounts to a similar gameplay experience as Neutral but longer and without any killing. It's flashy but contains probably the most egregious example of a boss fight you can't lose in the game in the form of what is quite literally the final boss.
And then there's the Genocide route. This is the route that singlehandedly most resembles a "game" in the entire experience, which is a shame since it's also the only route where you're actually punished for achieving the ending. Every other route's gameplay becomes hollow when you've already experienced the story before. Once you know the enemy patterns you don't really have anything left to challenge you, and with no new story content to experience there's no longer much in the way of value even in just experiencing that. In Genocide however, the challenge is cranked way up and you start having to becoming far more skilled and efficient. It's the only route in the game that retains its replay value in that the challenge provided by it is always engaging, and it's also the only route designed to shame you and make you feel like garbage for taking it.
It's for that reason that I feel like Undertale is a fundamentally flawed experience. It's a wonderful first time experience but an increasingly hollow and eventually patronizing experience that loses its initial magic the more you play it. It goes from feeling like like a Studio Ghibli film type experience to being just another cleared entry in the ol' backlog.
From what I have played of Deltrarune so far, I feel like Toby probably shares much the same sentiment and dissatisfaction with Undertale and seeks to fix this exact problem. The gameplay manages to be much more skill based and engaging at a much more consistent basis without you having to do anything to make you feel bad for doing it. I truly can't praise Toby and everyone else involved enough for what Deltarune seems to be shaping up to be, and I truly hope it manages to capture the magic that Undertale was going for in a more permanent way.
Great analysis. But honestly, the replay value part hits the hardest. Undertale gets REALLY boring after playing it a few times-- as eventually you'll run out of things to find. But I guess that is why it shames you so much in the genocide route as we did it because we were curious-- it gives you many chances to opt out. Undertale honestly was generally a attempt at making a subversive RPG that goes against what to expect from one.
@@eeereno2259 I didn't want to stretch out my initial comment too long so it was cut, but I do take issue in particular with the way the Genocide route shames you. The game is outright designed in such a way as to directly encourage you to experience every ending possible, to see all the content there is to see.
If doing the Genocide route last, the player is likely even going to have some sort of feeling along the lines of there being some kind of redemption at the end or something, and in particular the fact that it's the only way to meet Chara could give the player the feeling that the only way to redeem them in particular is to take the genocide path so that you can get to them.
Then not only does this not turn out to be the case, but after all the trials and tribulations you go through to reach the Genocide ending you're not just patronized for it but are actively punished by the Pacifist ending getting changed to take away your happy ending.
It's largely for this reason that I feel so much better about the gameplay in Deltarune. The gameplay seems to be condensed down into a compromise in which regardless of whether you choose to attack or spare, there's genuine skill involved in victory beyond just pattern recognition and you don't have to worry about the game treating you like a bad person for your preferred playstyle. It feels like a more realized attempt at what Undertale was going for to me.
Is replay value that important? And I am going to be honest, I thought the main point of undertale was not getting too attached. The final message of every route was basically telling you to fuck off and do something outside playing the game, if you do anything too clingy. The genocide route is basically the final form of that sentiment.
@@ryanergo754 Not everyone is satisfied with just playing through a game partially or only playing through once and then never touching it again. The issue that I'm talking about specifically is that the game punishes you for completing it and very easily becomes hollow if you ever decide to come back to it for another playthrough at some point later. It's a great first time experience but very difficult to return to.
Games are not friends, they're entertainment media. There's no such thing as being too clingy with them. While it is generally a good idea to not spend all your time playing games and to do things with other people or just spend time working out, doing chores, etc. it's not up to the games we play how we decide to go about allocating that time, and it's certainly not their place to deliberately punish us for just trying to have fun and see all the content there is to see.
@Crow_Rising I don't understand. Isn't that the point of the Genocide route?
I can understand getting bored thougg
My steam review is in this video! I’m the person who originally thought it was about sexy skeletons and refused to play it for years (though if you read my full review it’s clear that wasn’t actually my ultimate takeaway, lmao). This was crazy to see!
What I wanna know, is how many other indie gems are there that didn't hit it big.
Crosscode
Probably because the right people played the random indie game and spread the word. That's what happened to Fall Guys over a year after the game came out: the right streamers found the game and spread the word.
At the end of the day, video games are art, following rules and frameworks is great but sometimes you just have to go with the flow!
This game pushed me into making my own music and indie game dev.
It will always hold a special place in my heart.
It wasn't a game. It was an experience. A beautiful, unique experience that I never want to forget.
Please try Dead Cells It's a good game, I swear It's an amazing game with some of the best 2D combat and lore I have ever seen with constant and substantial updates and an 9.5 IGN rating but still fall behind Hades even though both are amazing games. Please try it you won't regret it.
Now please do why Geometry Dash 2.2 update is massive for the indie community
Also silksong
I would watch that
i honestly don't really see anything new or interesting in gd 2.2 except like, 2 new levels and a bunch of level editor stuff
@@aquaponieee Think of all the stuff people did with 2.1 level editor stuff. Now Imagin what people could make now.
The image you use for Toby Fox (2:00) is not actually him lol. It's from the LinkedIn of a guy who looks similar, and shares some similar qualities, but it definitely not him when you go to his website which is linked to his profile.
It's charming game for it's characters although I still can't really tell what they did different with their characters compared to other games. I think it blew up not because of the charm though but because of the unexpected depth in the game, it made the fans go rabid for it ultimately harming everybody's image of it for years.
I find Hades to have done something similar to Toby Fox in this case, they picked a genre that they had a lot nitpicks with and decided to simply change them, Hades is a roguelite game, at the core of the genre is permadeath, yet Hades found a way to make every run feel meaningful and helped you work towards something. Roguelite is a spin-off genre of roguelikes that were meant to add meta-progression and remove the grid turn-based combat but even then, no-one was able to make it feel like you were progressing a story with every run.
TLDR; I talk about how Undertale has inspired my next game and what makes Undertale's characters charming whilst I try to figure out how to make charming characters for my game...
I actually don't like JRPGs, the combat always bores me, I call it "number trading" and I prefer something more engaging or to just not have any combat. So when i find out Undertale was a bullet hell JRPG, i was mind-blown and decided to get the game. I've always wanted to like JRPGs, I constantly try them but the combat always throws me off, so imma take a page of out Toby's and Supergiant's book and make a game in the genre and just change what I don't like about it. Respectfully, I'm a new developer and the only form of combat system ive made is a bullet hell one, im quite proud of it but i never got to use it so i'll use it on this game, but dont think for a second imma straight up copy good old Toby, because i also dont like JRPG menus, i sketched an idea a few months ago when i started this project, i essentially found away to bring the UI into the battlefield without breaking immersion. There's so many other nitpicks I have with the genre that I've found a fair solution for that doesn't entirely break the genre. I wanted to like JRPGs sooooo bad so that's why I've decided to make one instead of just making a genre I like and am familiar with like roguelites or metroidvanias or shooters. I have to say though, I am really struggling to write charming characters, like how am I meant to know when I succeed? What makes Undertale's characters charming? Is it the flaws that we love? Their humour? Perhaps the way every character is so full of life? Can't be because they feel real, because they don't... but they are so full of life, i like that answer, they're more than they need to be. Undyne could've just been a knight that fights you and then dies, but no, you become friends, you burn her house down together, papyrus instigated it, none of that has any plot significance, but we love it, it expanded what could've been a shallow character, while nobody would burn down their house, Undyne's struggle to accept you in the beginning is a real trait, so I guess maybe the characters are kinda real, if only by a singular trait eg humour, distrust, regret, love, etc. Real people are far more complex and harder to understand, real people are rarely ever as charming, maybe it's how they tackle their realistic traits in an unrealistic way. They are quick to challenge not just you but themselves, they're open-minded, able to change when needed, even flowey. Or maybe it really is just the silliness of the whole game. I can't put my finger on why Undertale's characters are charming, I can't seem to create charming characters, maybe it 's all of it, just a bunch of tiny unimportant things that work well together. That was something you said in the video, I guess it also applies to my question. I've seen how Toby starts designing his characters, he starts them off as silly and doesn't isolate them either, he thinks of how they interact with not you, but other characters, they exist outside of our playthrough. Whereas ive been starting my characters off quite seriously, thinking about the role they will play and the relationship with other characters, not how they interact with those characters. Excluding the king and queen in my game because I wanted them to be two peas in a pod, two wildly intimidating characters with an interesting positive/negative magnetic personalities, they exist within each other. The only two characters I want to keep and I think I've successfully made charming in their own respect. I'll try starting my next character off as goofy, even if they meant to have an important role, i need to show they have a personality and aren't shallow, then when writing the story, I'll make you have to earn their trust before you can see them let their guard down and be human. Writing good fiction is hard bruh, I should've gone with a more programming and game design focused genre.
About the discord... Me and my brother are planning to become game developers by him being the programmer and me being the artist/other stuff but he is still learning in college so my question being... Should I already start to make the characters and the places in design or should I wait?
Yeah I suggest learning all you can and practicing it seeing what works and what doesn't.
@@happyduck1424 thank you... Uhh... Random talking duck... Jokes aside thank's for the advice
The real question is why would you wait? Is NEVER too soon
Of course we gotta talk about Undertale now that Yellow has been released to critical acclaim. That's another thing too; the fanbase may be strange in places, but they also can make some of the most dedicated high effort fan games as well, which really speaks volumes to how good the base game is. Even Toby Fox basically said "yeah, that's pretty much how it happened" to Yellow, which makes sense considering the attention to detail, all released for free, with lovable characters, three different content rich routes and extensive programming. Plus, the awesome retro themed music that I particularly love in Undertale and some of its fangames.
Undertale : *a really great game*
fanbase : 😬
This game is the reason I have my love of art, animation, and music. Wouldn't have it any other way.
"I help brands dodge as much risk as possible while making a product" well that sure sounds like a boring and dogshit job that ruins any innovation
Well i just want to say that sometime Indie games can become successful, but the truth is that there are so many failed indie games that are actually deserve better, and that's the harsh truth of indie games.
And also, in 6:19 why CIA showed in your video?
this channel has inspired me to start writing scripts and really making a yt journey come to life
Yeah, lot of people like it.
Toby fox is indeed cooking magnificent since early day of the development
The game is directly spawning amazing works like the Undertale Yellow fangame to this day.
It's spawning tumblr garbage huh, like a cancer
Undertale Omori and the mother series are the only rpgs that i truly care about not beacuse of the gameplay but beacuse of the beatifully written characters, amazing story telling and unforgattable moments i'm glad that Undertale didn't failed cause without it i wouldn't appreciate rpgs like i do today
You are the most based person I know
What is so special about mother series, anyway?
@@QSBraWQ well the characters, the soundtracks, the emotional moments, the unique art style of the games and ect.
@@QSBraWQ They have really relatable characters, the worlds are designed to be literally down to earth so you can see yourself in the characters. The music and gameplay is awesome, and the storytelling is really good. Mother 3 is one of four games that have ever made me cry
@@goose7618 honestly sounds like disco Elysium so far.
But what message does it have? What is it trying to say or answer? Like, Undertale had answer to meaning of life. So what the mother series mean?
I loved Undertale.
i think toby fox was trying to appeal toby fox
You should talk about other indie rpg games like Omori, Lisa the joyful, Oneshot etc.
I played the game while an Elementary schooler in online school during the initial 2020 pandemic.
I was kinda lazy and didn’t feel like reading all the dialogue and kinda just skimmed through it quickly, but even doing that I still left the game feeling great. The entirety of my school semester during covid I was so obsessed with everything UnderTale.
I loved every character, watched the fan animations, watched the comic dubs, looked at fanart, and spent way too many hours on the certain bosses. But still, every second playing the game felt great for some reason. I actually imagined myself in the world and how I would actually react to meeting the characters before going to bed, and even had a dream about fighting Sans.
My only regret with UnderTale is not reading all the dialogue and playing with spoilers (I heard Megalovania and watched the Sans fight on RUclips before playing). If I could, I would erase my memories of the game and play 100% spoiler free, and actually read every line of dialogue.
literally the “negative” reviews that are jokes like, for example “cannot sex funny bone man”
literally unplayable
Ultrakill, one of the highest rated games on steam ever, not even exaggerating 99% of negative reviews are memes that there's no robot sex
Only thing I don’t like is the sheer amount of sans fan games . Just why, I mean sans is interesting but we don’t need 200 sans games.
And for these reasons let us hope the game industry never gets regulated or subsidised by governments
Guess I'll better finish that run that I started like 6 years ago... that lasted only 40 minutes.
Its so funny how this video goes on about how unlikely Undertale's success was and how that risky success was so unlikely and goes against all the previous advice hes given in video and never once mentions how TobyFox's work and connections with the comic Homestuck - which was incredibly popular within the Tumblr space for a few years - gave UT pretty much a built in fanbase from the getgo even if it didnt make it past Tumblr
About the risk - well, you don't take the risk with your tentpole release. The problem is, when these studios do not have also "indie" releases to try new stuff and see what lands to make it into a tentpole remake, for example.
Hey Bro great video, wanted to know if you needed a video editor/thumbnail designer for the channel?
power to indie developers
The thing holding me back from getting Undertale is how getting one of the endings apparently ruins any future playthrough you might do. If it wasn't for that I'd check it out.
It’s not really like thaaat, you’d have to REALLY go out of your way to get THAT ending i doubt you’d get it on your first or even second play through if you go in blindly. It doesn’t really ruin any future runs tho, it just gives you a little reality check at the end of one of them, so you don’t go on your merry way pretending like you didn’t go out of your way to get THAT ending and don’t pretend it never happened! I think that “reality check” alteration to the ending is narratively awesome and deserved as well as helping you to recontextualise several characters’ behaviours and perhaps understand and see yourself through them more. OR FEEL GUILTY I DUNNO
getting that ending is so incredibly dificult ive never seen anyone get it accidentaly, and it doesnt really ruin any other ending just changes a small thing at the end
Nah it's not that big of a deal. You can't really get the ending unless you are specifically trying for it, anyway.
In case that ever does happen, try out Flowey's Time Mchine. There should be a tutorial on how to use it.
You should review pizza tower
Eh... No? It's weird watching a video that seems so sure of itself when it sounds totally ignorant from the perspective of someone who was there when it was a KS. I had absolutely no doubt Undertale was going to be a success, because it had a built-in fanbase jumping over to it from Homestuck (not long before that series fell through, really), the fans of which had prominence on number of major websites like Tumblr and 4chan, allowing word of it to spread like wildfire, especially with its successful and compelling demo. Like, damn, I guess you're trying to sell a narrative, but you're kind of just making shit up.
Makes sense, Undertale really has Tumblr vibes.
I agree with every point in this video except the game not having an audience. A lot of people don't realize this but Toby actually had an advantage that no one attributes to the games success:
The Honestuck community:
The game released its kickstarter during a mega hiatus in Homestucks release schedule, and Toby, being a part of that community, had a ton of their attention due to the lack of content. Undertale had very adjacent humor to Homestuck and the rest is history
6 minutes and still a fire video
Please make a video about "Super Mario World" and the rom hacking community please
Nostalgic game as always
Well song is the strongest point of undertale
And also this is one of the first ever game that let you spare enemy
I think he talks about undertail or so,ething
I'm a game developper and I spent a year working on this project and I finally published the official trailer on my channel I think I'm not famous enough to appear on a big youtube channel but I'm still trying ;-; also I'm 15
Love these stories, it totally captures that rag to riches craving.
fym should of failed?
Because it realesed
I bought undertale 2 years ago, and I actually managed to kill sans for the first time 2 days ago lol
Mommy toriel
Yeah, Undertale am I right?
You talked about Overwatch, now talk abou Team Fortress 2
But it refused
I don’t see why it would fail
Yo
Can u make a vid about fortnite save the world, its dead a Long time now while Battle royale gets Updated every week
Reminder that Toby also worked on Homestuck before Undertale. I'm not a Homestuck fan, I know really nothing about it other than it's insanely hard to understand and was an online series and web comic, but it's definitely impressive that Toby worked on 2, now 3, big deal projects.
To be specific, he was one of the people who worked on music for Homestuck, and knew the creator, Andrew Hussie, personally.
As for what Homestuck was, to keep it brief, it was a webcomic about 4 kids who played a weird computer game that ends the world, get involved with alien trolls who have a strange culture, and time travel is a game mechanic. At least one alternate universe is explored and in Canon. That kind of weird stuff.
i listen to this video. 5 minutes in. my eyes wander off and i see "rating SOLDIER weapons by how good they'd TASTE - TF2".
Yet Indians will never play it
This video is just a wiki audible and this channel is basically a Downward Thrust/Cleanprice gaming clone.
SKIBIDI TOILET?!?!?!
Gen alpha be like
Hello, for anyone reading this comment, I just want you to consider a different perspective on the game, while still respecting your opinions, also if u haven't touch the game, this could help ya to be aware of it. Toby fox is indeed a great composer in music and game mechanics, but there´re bad things about undertale we don´t pay attention. Over the years, I've learned from this game, from my adolescence to adulthood, and I'm writing this to express myself and be honest.
The game is toxic and manipulative not because it evokes emotions, but because of how it generates them and uses them to convey a harmful message. A video game can tell a story that aims to evoke emotions and create a moral lesson, but there are two ways to do this: either you narrate a story with well-crafted characters whose interactions, both among themselves and with the player, build genuinely emotional moments, or you artificially create those emotions in the player using cheap tricks like emojis, melancholic landscapes, cloying music, and "emotional" phrases that are extremely generic.
It's very easy to tell when a story is doing this; just remove those elements and seriously think about what you're seeing and what's happening. If what the game is making you feel doesn't correspond to what's actually happening when you think about it critically, then I'm afraid you're being manipulated.
Undertale's story is manipulative because it seeks to make you laugh, cry, or be scared, not because it's well-constructed, but because it simply wants your attention and high regard. It's literally forcing you to feel the way it wants you to feel without thoughtful consideration.
Undertale is brimming with moments that aim for artificial emotions, and in manipulating the player's emotions, it fills their mind with harmful messages that they absorb almost unconsciously. Specifically, the idea that you have to forgive people who are harming you or others because deep down they're pitiful, and if you defend yourself, you're the bad guy. This message appears in many media forms like anime, soap operas, and even many political and religious leaders espouse it, and it's tremendously damaging for those who practice it, leading to extreme conformity, demonizing others' actions without considering the context, and letting oneself be trampled by everyone in pursuit of a senseless ideal.
Considering this, it makes a lot of sense that the fandom has behaved horribly towards others (including threats, insults, harassment, or even attempts to harm those who don't play the game "the right way" like Markiplier incident). Even those who enjoy the game without thinking about all this are assimilating and internalizing totally harmful morals and life philosophies that will ultimately mess up their lives in one way or another.
That's what the whole issue of the toxicity of the game is about-its ability to manipulate your feelings so that you absorb toxic messages without realizing that you're doing so.
Grandstanding novel that completely misses the point of the topic it's trying to talk about... Many such cases.
Im so confused
the meta narrative of undertale is there for a reason. the logic of the game does NOT acknowledge you as a normal human child, it acknowledges you as a god-like being with the power to manipulate time who can bring about any outcome for the underground. it's up to you whether you use your power for evil or good. why do you think sans is the one who judges your actions? it's because he's the one who knows you have your ability, and he knows you can do better if you want to use your abilities for better. undertale's message is not "be pacifist no matter the circumstance", it's "if you have the power to do good, use it for good".
also this "artificial emotion" thing is pretentious as all hell. the entire point of the game is to pit you against a hostile world, the game expects you to defend yourself. then game then breaks the fourth wall and tries to make you reflect, whether you as a god could give these characters a better ending. it's supposed to humanize them but show their flaws, and as a god who can rewind any consequences, you are able to do this with no risk. undertale is NOT asking you to be defenseless in the face of danger, it's asking you to make an effort to use your god-like power to understand and save the monsters you fought along your journey
Guys I think this guy didn't played Undertale at all
I don't think it goes THAT deep but yeah, the whole games theming breaks down when you realize that with the exception of the genocide route the main message of the game is just "be nice, killing bad." Despite the fact that it's done in self defense.
And even then the whole save and reload thing, and heck most morality "the fate of the world is in your hands" in almost every game I know at least for me doesn't strike a chord. Mainly because it's all just code and nothing's stopping you from just resetting or modifying game files.
And even then the characters are just simple. Nothing to it that hasn't been done before. They aren't flat but the way the game forces your sympathy is heavy handed especially with its length and the fact that the characters mostly just have one main personality trait.
Like every other popular game it's only "THE BEST GAME EVER" because of bandwagoning. AKA: others say it's good therefore it's good. (Like Nintendo games or Elden Ring)
It has good traits on its own but nothing that would make it a 10/10 if it went for peer pressure and the internet fandom drowning out any actual criticism.
Check out Ultrakill its my favorite indie game its AMAZING and seriously underappreciated.