PART 1: DID PAUL & MORGAN MEET THEIR MATCH? | 24HRS WITH The New Evangelicals Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
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Don’t miss part 2! ruclips.net/video/dEGk_U8fP2Q/видео.htmlsi=adHnt6u_rJcXFZal
What I never understood about Christians like Paul and Morgan is why they care more about what the Apostle Paul says than what Jesus says.
That’s an interesting thing to point out, they really do reference Paul’s teachings quite frequently. Jesus not so much unless they’re misinterpreting his words to condemn divorce.
Yes!!!!! Exactly!!!!!! They use Paul to spew hatred that Jesus would never say.
It’s probably bc Apostle Paul has the same name as Paul, so I’m sure he reads those passages soooo much 😅 he’s just obsessed with his own name
I'd go so far as to say they are very selective with what Paul says also. Romans for example, where they quote Romans 1 about homosexuality, but then just totally ignore Romans 2. Which means they (I'm guessing deliberately) miss Paul's whole point and kind of turn Paul's own argument into the opposite. It's all very selective quotes they use.
Because most of the NT is written by Paul.
Paul is so out of his depth. It’s almost uncomfortable to watch except it’s not because Tim is so kind and incredible.
He also has never studied the history of the Bible in depth and is really becoming aware just how much discussion there is around it.
I always laugh at how every single time Paul no longer has ammunition for something he immediately pivots to something else. It’s classic abusive behaviour.
Emotional abuse is a spectrum and most ppl don't even realize they are emotionally abusive. This is why therapy and learning better communication skills would be highly beneficial to paul and everyone around him.
It also shows how poorly he can back up his beliefs! It’s embarrassing, really.
This dude is saying everything I have ever wanted to say to Paul so much more eloquently than I could.
YES lol I get too heated and triggered with him and lose my cool which isn't a good look 😅
I had not heard of him before, but already on the edge of fandom
Exactly this. It was such a relief to watch this
Yessss this was so satisfying to watch. I have never of this guy but I’m a huge fan now.
Tim’s knowledge feels PhD level and Paul feels to be middle school. I wonder how Paul felt deep down having these convos with Tim
Paul and Morgan seem like adults who never outgrew church youth group.
That's what happens when you're raised in extreme religion...its almost like it stunts your brain ...similar to people who find addiction at a young age. These are just coronations between addiction and fundie religion that I've noticed and picked up on spending time with fundies and addicts 🤔 there's something there
We can all very clearly see how Paul feels deep down. He has lots of physical tells when it comes to his discomfort and insecurity.
@@jaimesfollyExactly! I couldn’t put my finger on it, but THAT IS IT. They’re emotionally and socially stunted. Their immaturity is in their staunch belief of their own infallibility, claiming it’s based in God’s infallible word, and it prevents them from really hearing and digesting the ideas of others. Listening skills are a critical asset and one worth P&M making an investment in.
Apparently Tim has a video looking at the episode
Paul: "I'm not saying homosexuality and alcoholism are the same but..."
*Proceeds to directly compare homosexuality and alcoholism*
Paul: I want people to go back to the word and figure out what it says
Progressive Christians: It says here to love one another above everything except for loving God.
Paul: No, not like that.
Anyone who says the Bible is to be taken literally but isn't incredibly skilled in at least Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic is a joke. The English Bible is an adaptation of an adaptation of an adaptation translation of a translation of a translation. There's a lot different than the initial written text. (And that's before you get to the party where a bunch of old white guys got together and decided which religious writings were going to be the official history and doctrine, and got rid of the ones that they didn't like, especially if they had to do with the role of women.)
That’s true, but I’d say P&M are arguing something even beyond that, to take their Bible literally *and* to distrust what the people who have studied the text in their original languages have to say.
this needs to be shouted from the mountains
What stands out to me is how much better informed Tim is than Paul. It's amazing how even just a little bit of wiggle room allows for people to search out truth, in my opinion. I'm not Christian any more but I appreciate Tim's takes - I'm just not in a place any more where I think the Bible is a guide and should provide your morals, but I'm glad Tim's view is more focussed on what harm his actions cause.
In Tim’s most recent video he said he felt bad as a human that the majority of the comments on P&M video were pointing out how educated Tim is vs how ignorant of Christian theology and history Paul seems to be. He is a really good guy and as a follower of Christ it’s like a breath of fresh air to know he is representing my faith is such a beautiful, loving, and intelligent way.
I pray you come back to Jesus. He will not give up on you.
@@sambailie4773 with respect, comments like this do nothing to convey the love of Jesus. If you feel you should pray for someone, great. But to come on here and make this comment feels more like a southern “bless your heart” than genuine love of God. I’m not sure your intent, but on the other side of you it’s like a drive by egging. There’s a reason people no longer care about “thoughts and prayers”. Please know this is coming from someone who believes God hears my prayers.
Honestly that’s my biggest takeaway from this series. Paul and Morgan don’t seem to be super well informed or even curious about their own faith. It’s telling.
@@sambailie4773 Hi! I trust your heart is in a good place, but you don't have to. Being free from religion is one of the best things that ever happened to me. ❤
It's really frustrating to hear Paul go from talking about queer inclusion to porn. This is a gross conflation between the two things. They are NOT similar AT ALL. That felt very purposeful and sinister from Paul. Don't do that.
The problem is that it's not purposeful or (intentionally) sinister. When you're in that evangelical space you truly believe that LGBTQ+, pornograpy, pedophilia, etc are all in the same category - departures from God's intended sexual ethic. They don't see the damage they cause by equating the two because fundamentalist evangelicals see them all as equally bad and to be villainized. It's all an intentional turning away from God's plan to them. Granted, I absolutely believe that there are people who use fundamentalist Christianity as a cudgel who don't actually believe the way a true believer does in regards to sexual ethic but there's no way to tell someone's true intentions from the outside.
Paul and Morgan are so incredibly ignorant. I know it’s not polite to say that but they truly know so little about anything at all. The way Paul said that Tim wouldn’t be comfortable in a “traditional” church because he’s affirming when fundamentalist churches reject most liturgical tradition, and mainline churches that preserve the tradition by and far are affirming. Not to mention how little Paul knows about the theology of his own faith. Paul and Morgan really shouldn’t have a platform but since they do I’m glad that they’re bringing more intelligent and informed people on to speak in this case.
I totally agree!! I have no problem saying Paul and Morgan are ignorant, because they are. I studied religion in university and learned a lot about Judaism, and how it reflects upon Christ’s teachings and Christianity in general, and I feel like it’s literally so easy to know more they just don’t want to look into it. They call themselves experts and give this advice and preach, but they literally don’t know what they’re talking about. No nuance, no history, no theology! It’s maddening!
I also use to be very ignorant I was raised to be. Ignorance is bliss but I would nvr go back.
It just shows how much these evangelical/ fundie “Christians” have strayed away from the teaching of Christ. I don’t even think these evangelicals know the Lord’s Prayer by heart.
Agree, I suspect that church beliefs and set ups that Paul calls 'traditional' are less than 200 years old, whereas there are families of churches with tradition going back thousand plus years. But they were brought up to see those as not even Christians,.
I think of ignorance as a neutral, a before data added situation. I didn't know x, now I do. I think the extreme literalist/inerrancy /fundies are in the minus scale they are not ignorant but worse than that they have been given information that stops them questioning the value of data, of daring to think differently. Until they can argue that grass is red.
Agree. By evangelical standards even Paul is really showing he doesn't know much. I've done a bit of training, and can tell he is really lacking here. He gets some of the evangelical positions wrong, and doesn't have the critical thought processes that you develop when go are exposed to more academic neutral thinking.
It all comes over as judgemental and his own opinion. Much of what he says is only backed up by his own assertions of him reading the bible ("getting into the word", as he says) but he admits to avoiding and openly dismissing academic material that may challenge his interpretation.
I am glad you called out that very, very stupid argument that Morgan made. That she thinks anyone would feel badly if their church told them they were sinful. Tim had JUST EXPLAINED that this only happens to queer people. These types of churches increase suicidal ideation in queer people, and all she can say is, “BUT SIN!!!!!”
I get the sense that Paul listens to respond and not to understand
Happy Birthday!! As a queer person I appreciate the way Tim went about answering their questions with regards to LGBTQ issues, specifically when he made it clear that queerness and alcoholism aren't the same thing. It's a very frustrating comparison. I know for me, I didn't grow up in any kind of church community and still struggled with my identity and mental health issues. I'd have imagine going weekly to a place that says your feelings are sinful would make that 100 times worse. Also maybe it's just me, but it feels weird to hear Paul say "the LGBT," it feels like when people say "the Blacks" instead of Black people.
I hate that too!
It seems dehumanizing
You just created a false equivalency between homosexuals and blacks???
You DID NOT just release two long videos in a row. Oh, hell yeah! YOU ARE MY HERO. *grabs kettle corn*
It’s you and me for the next two and a half hours! 🤘🏼
Paul's condescending "I'm glad to hear you say that"s every time Tim said something Paul could squint at and consider agreement with him were infuriating. Like he went into it expecting Tim to support drug-fueled public orgies or porn in elementary schools or something and was pleasantly surprised when he said he considers hook-up culture unwise. Shut up, Paul.
lol it was almost like he didn’t know what to do with that, like he begrudgingly conceded when their views were somewhat in line with each other.
And also I kept thinking "you're not the final authority on truth, Paul, so it doesn't mean jack shit if you approve of what he thinks" 🙄
@@Nicaea7probably one of the reasons Tim was so relaxed. Who cares what theses two RUclipsrs think?
When I watched Tim's reaction livestream I told my husband that Tim "knows the context of the Bible like B Haney."
Tim eats Paul’s lunch while Morgan giggles. Goodness. Tim highlights how stubborn, arrogant, and uneducated Paul is. Almost painful to watch. B - you look positively beautiful! Glowing like crazy!
Re: comparing homosexuality to alcoholism:
"Mom, Dad, I have news for you. I know this will be hard to understand, but I've struggled with something for a long time. I don't expect you to approve, but I ask you to please respect my decision and do not judge me while pretending to call out my sinful lifestyle. After careful reflection and deep prayer, I've decided to become an alcoholic."
A conversation that no one has ever had.
It’s more so “I’m embracing my alcoholism”. Point still stands, but I think that’s a better comparison lol
@Nomarcaper not really, since Paul conflates homosexuality with the act. So only if you're embracing your alcoholism even though you've never had a drink. Most teens that come out to their parents are still virgins.
@@angelawossname I think you missed my point. I’m not disagreeing with OPs comment. I’m just saying if they want even try to have a rebuttal, that would be a “better” argument, which still doesn’t work.
@@Nomarcaper oh, I got your point, I'm just disagreeing that yours is the better argument. I think OP's comparison was better.
@@angelawossname ah, that’s fine. But I disagree. I don’t know what virginity has to do with this, and virginity is a social construct. A lot of times, those who are LGBT have had some sort of same sex interactions, regardless of it was sex or not. “Embracing being an alcoholic” is saying you’ve had something to drink, and it makes you feel good, so you want to continue. Same with “embracing my sexuality”. The individual knows it’s right for them, and makes them feel better to embrace who they are.
Again, we are debating a shitty argument that doesn’t work.
My win for the week is the love of my life proposed! Excited to see what the future holds for us
RE: lgbtq+ stuff: I agree Paul is grasping at straws to affirm his position. I think a good question for Paul would be, how do you invest in the lives of lgbtq+ ppl beyond zeroing in on what you perceive as “taboo” about them? I would want to know if Paul has any lgbtq+ friends, or if he’s met an lgbtq+ couple who are thriving together. You can’t love someone when you only see a label and don’t have the flexibility to discover who they really are and why they are worth celebrating.
I think the frustrating thing is that Tim knows so much that Paul doesn’t have any information that Tim isn’t aware of that will convince him. But Paul doesn’t have the mindset that he could be wrong, so he won’t listen to Tim.
Yeah that's how I saw it too. Tim seems like he would be open to learning and shifting his beliefs if Paul had actual evidence. Paul's beliefs just seem so fragile as if accepting one of Tim's beliefs would cause all of his beliefs to crumble
My win for the week is I moved into a new rental house with my friend and its a disabled friendly property so I have more freedom to move around. The owner put in bars and a ramp for me to make it accessible so I'm so thankful.
That’s huge win!! So happy for you
Thank u
Wow that is such a big deal! im glad you will have more freedom to get around. My win is I just got a car for the first time in 9 years and I am LOVING being able to drive my kids wherever they want. Previously they couldn’t do any sports because we didn’t have access. Not the same as your situation but both related to mobility and freedom
@@sadiefalco4673 that's also a huge win. Congratulations
I absolutely HATE the way that fundamentalists like P&M debate and process information. They literally do not know how to approach a conversation with an open mind and are so unaware of how their beliefs lead them down paths that are illogical. It seems like this whole conversation is just Paul trying to get Tim to say “oh actually my beliefs don’t make sense and you’re way is better”.
when Tim said that people treat the bible as the 4th trinity...dang that hit hard. I've only been in circles that are super strict with the bible, but this man describing it as a useful tool kind of blew my mind. I've never thought of the bible as a tool. for whatever reason this gives me motivation to revisit it.
also win for the week is that I've started so many IV's in people! I've been afraid of doing IV's but I've been getting better at them. hope whoever's reading this has a good day ☺️
Lol... Morgan's "cursive blase voice"... that one was fantastic!
"You can get bent" *chef's kiss*
paul is so snarky in this one and tim handles it with so much grace
I never knew about the New Evangelicals, so i didn't understand why everyone was so excited for this collab. Definitely get it now, the New Evangelicals are people i would have seriously appreciated having around when I was growing up
Hot take, but I think this is why people need to stop saying that "unaliving yourself is a choice" because for the majority of cases, people don't unalive themselves for no reason... How you treat others is INCREDIBLY important as we ARE social creatures. SOCIAL ISOLATION in the old days was LITERALLY classified as a form of TORTURE!!
Let that sink in...
YES! Self-unaliving is collective murder. No one would blame a victim of starvation or dehydration for their own death. It would clearly be caused by neglect from
their family, community, and/or society.
Great reaction! I'm always perplexed by how Paul and Morgan are the ones who edit their videos but somehow manage to make themselves come off unfavourably.
Paul and Morgan have been given the studies and told the statistics over and over. At this point, it's useless to discuss LGBT+ with them. You saw how as Tim pointed out they tapped danced out of the way when it came to slavery (even though the bondsman stuff is not honest or accurate) but they still want to hold on hating gays. I never understand how they don't understand the basic concept of 'they didn't wake up, choose a day and declared their sexuality' it's the same for heterosexuals as it is for homosexuals. You're born that way.
Yes! I must admit I like this 24 Hrs because Paul is being forced to think instead of just react. It's quite refreshing to see.
My Win For the Week: Enjoying Quiet Time while everyone is asleep but Me
The entire premise of this series if flawed because Paul is a deeply uncurious, inflexible person. He doesn't want to find common ground, he wants to argue and doesn't have the intellect and research to back it up. Tim is fascinating and Paul is so exhausting to listen to.
THIS.
Yes new to both of them but spot on- I know Paul- well in the sense that I was raised in an evangelical church that taught me that their beliefs were correct and everyone else was lost. Who is this Tim- I'm seriously curious now
As a gay person, I want to thank hetero Christians like Tim for doing this work. That’s how you do allyship, by taking his encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible and biblical scholarship and using it to topple the problematic belief systems that underpin the continued oppression of myself and my community. It doesn’t matter if Paul and Morgan change their minds, at this point I think it’s fruitless to hope for that, they have too much invested in their worldview. The goal is to change the minds of the viewers.
Tim would disagree on the question whether it's hopeless. He said himself that he empathizes with Paul because he was just like him in the past. The new evangelicals only started around 2016. Tim deconstructed because of the obsession of evangelicals with Trump.
Win for the week: My husband and I rescued a little baby kitten that we found in the middle of the road! He's the sweetest boy and we're taking care of him until my best friend adopts him 😊
Paul is fighting to keep up intellectually and it’s painful to watch lol. I don’t know how he’s satisfied hearing at Tim’s well reasoned and argued points and responding with circular arguments and gotcha attempts
TNE has an excellent, must-watch three-part series on the history of the conflict in Palestine. I binged it over the past few days. Cannot recommend it enough.
Hey I'd be interested to watch that. What's TNE stand for?
@@que278martinez5 The New Evangelicals I'll wager
@@que278martinez5 The New Evangelicals
@@que278martinez5The New Evangelicals
@@que278martinez5the new evangelicals 😊
I want Paul and Morgan to do a 24 hours with a Rabbi
I don’t think they’d like hearing Christian’s and Jews worship the same god or that in Judaism it’s not discouraged to question one’s faith, but that chat would sure be interesting.
I work at a synagogue, and the Rabbi I work for is such a geek and knows a bit of biblical history. She would DEMOLISH Paul and Morgan, maybe even make them cry because they wouldn't understand the nuance and intricacies of the Torah.
This would be brilliant!!!
I want them to talk to someone who isn't a "non-denominational" evangelical Christians (baptists who don't want to label themselves).
Oy vey.
Win for the week. I finally had a doctor who not only knew about my extremely rare illness but also did further testing and is trying some new stuff to help. As someone with massive medical trauma, this is huge.
I’m so happy you’re receiving the medical management and treatment you need. 🫶🏻
the alcoholism comparison is also so incredibly flawed because we can literally prove beyond a reasonable doubt that alcoholism is detrimental and kills. the same can not be said for queerness (unless you are so intellectually dishonest its not even worth discussing it with you)
I had the same thought about Paul saying Tim wouldn't be happy in a traditional Christian church. That's so vague. Oh you think Tim wouldn't be happy as a catholic? He wouldn't be happy being greek orthodox? OK. Paul apparently has no understanding of the vastness of Christian tradition.
He has tunnel vision with his fundamentalist/evangelical Christian belief. Most would consider that sect a more extreme sect of Christianity, I think.
I think he could be quite happy as an Episcopalian. Is the only place I could go from Catholicism if I ever go.
lol ya, Tim would probably be more comfortable in an Eastern Orthodox Church than a Protestant church. Let’s please frame “traditional” properly.
Paul's idea of traditional church is likely the less than 200yr old literalist, inerrancy faith. The rest of us are not true Christian
There is no hate like Christian love
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John:15:12
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Matthew:5:44
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Matthew:5:46
I almost choked hearing Paul ask about empathy and understanding while advocating for his right to completely reject empathy and understanding towards queer individuals
Paul’s argument for blocking Tim was confusing like you mentioned…but I grew up very conservative Christian and that argument reminded me a lot of my own upbringing. Christian parents are very quick to block out/remove situations or content from their children’s lives in an attempt to “protect them” from the world, instead of have discussions and get to the root of why something or someone should be “avoided” or (even better) how to peacefully coexist with secular people/environments. The block button can be seen as the epitome of conservative Christians “bubble button” if that makes sense😅
One of the big reasons why I don't resonate with Christianity anymore is exactly because of the discouragement of asking questions and exploring your beliefs past the "you just need to have faith" point. Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, all these religions encourage discussion and questions! And they're FINE. They're losing members too but not at the same rate that Christian denominations are. It just scares people off when church leaders do things like "fire" public facing members who are questioning. (I know he was a volunteer but it's more or less the same thing). Young people are not dumb and seeing someone who is questioning get essentially dismissed just sends the message to them that questioning will eventually lead to dismissal, so why keep going at that point? So frustrating.
You could not be a regular attendant at any mainline Mosque or any (non reform) synagogue in America while publicly disputing the teachings of those mosques and synagogues online and not face pushback.
Oh, I feel terrible for saying it but: Not All Churches.
The churches I grew up in welcomed discussion and questions. Several of the ministers I knew were ~thrilled~ when I had questions because it proved I was thinking about and considering my beliefs on a deeper level.
@@megnowosad4280agree. There are plenty of church contexts that favour questioning in faith development. I lead my congregations with that pattern, exploring faith and meaning. Not telling them what to think (how could I dare?)
Did I just watch TNE’s reaction to the video yesterday? Yes. Am I going to watch both parts of yours anyways? Heck yeah!
If you really want to go video inception, watch Paul and Morgan’s reaction to TNE’s reaction as well!!! 😂
Tim: points out how obsessed evangelicals are with sex
Paul: denies it
Also Paul: doubles down and quotes more scripture about sex and sexual immorality 🙄
Does Paul not understand that intervention-style call outs are not the move? Even if it were from a loving support system, that shit is usually a last ditch effort to help someone. If you go to a gay person and “lovingly” tell them they are living in sin, of course it’s gonna come off pompous and judgy. Anyone would get defensive! In the same way Paul himself leans into defensiveness when others around him “lovingly call out” his bigotry in a polite way. Paul just got that moral hall monitor energy idk
Of course I could love a homosexual person and tell them their lifestyle was wrong if their lifestyle was wrong. Like if someone who happens to be gay was addicted to drinking and gambling and it was ruining their life and destroying their family, I would definitely tell them it was wrong to continue that lifestyle without getting help!
Confused at how Morgan thinks that you can go against your Creator by being created in a certain way. Who else would have created you that way??
💯
I love TNE’s refusal to get trapped in Paul’s questions and introduce nuance but stay calm and confident
Happy Birthday, B! Welcome to The 30s Club, it's pretty cool over here! 🎉💖🎂
This so clearly shows Paul's lack of education on the bible as a historical text. Whether or not your believe the Bible is the inerrant and holy word of God, there are still historical facets of the bible that are just factually true, like the fact that all the different books were written during different time periods and for different purposes. We wouldn't take a text from the 1700s and a text from today and interpret them the same way (think of all the modern people today who are confused about the works of Shakespeare, for example), and we shouldn't do that with the Bible either.
my win for the week is that i had the past two weeks off from work! it was very rejuvenating :)
Happy Birthday, B!!
It’s really problematic and culturally appropriative for Paul to find Hebrew text to be authorative Scripture but not consider at all the ways that the actually people whose heritage it is would interpret it
Omfg yes!!! Even though we understand the history and language and culture, fundies seem to think they know better. Only a small minority of Jews (less than 10%, the Ultra Orthodox) are not lgbtq affirming. Modern Orthodox, conservative, reconstructionist and reform all are lgbtq affirming. My rabbi is a trans guy.
Hi! Thanks so much for this vid 🙏🙏
Thanks for doing this episode with Paul and Morgan! I really enjoyed hearing your insight 😊
I just have to say.. hearing you talk about getting severely anxious over the concept of time never ending was really comforting. I have struggled with that since I was a child, but others in my Christian circle growing up never voiced those same fears.. it was nice to feel a little validated that yeah… even if I’m a Christian, there are so many things I don’t know and get anxious over. And that’s okay..I’ll go ahead and throw that in as my win for the week🫶🏼
I don't understand refusing to recognize a fellow Christian who follows Jesus. Tim is married in a very traditional sense and does not appear to be living in unrepentant sin. Not saying that's the only way to be Christian, but Tim seems in line with Evangelicals in most ways.
Tim and his wife did a reaction and talked about this and how they even waited until their wedding night. I am baffled at the arrogance to tell someone who strives to follow the way of Christ that they’re not a Christian. I was deeply indoctrinated and all in but even that was shocking for me
My theory as someone who is still a xtian who used to move in MUCH more conservative circles, is that there is no pleasing many of these people. I was, for example, a closer follower of the church and biblical rules than the leaders who were attacking me, but they still found things to complain about and to try to undermine my faith. I think it comes from a lack of having any coping skills or emotional understanding outside of their religion. Instead of being able to recognize that they're feeling threatened, perhaps, or they simply don't like another human, they feel they must insist the other is not a "real" xtian because they don't know any other way to create distance or to verbalize their hatred or even unease.
Paul gets off on trying to dunk on Morgan for not being a virgin when they were married. He is a creep!
45:02 in the reaction video he did with his wife, Tim said how this part and talking about his body made him very uncomfortable
I’ll bet it did! It seemed so weird and I don’t understand why they felt the need to comment on his body at least two times (that they showed anyway).
Tim annihilated him!! And it was fabulous! I truly believe the Bible just like mythology, is not meant to be taken so literal! Loved Tim…I think the main thing that Tim showed, is how incredibly uneducated Paul and Morgan are and sorry well not sorry, even Paul made a comment about how “Tim was too educated”! I also think by those giggles Morgan has a little (crushie poo) Morgan!! 💝
anyway
they need to go back to college for a couple years and take some literature, philosophy and sociology courses imo! 😅
B you’re looking lovely and glowing! 💕 💕
my win for the week? I’m a librarian who hadn’t read a book in two years!! (due to immense stress and leaving abuse) when my anxious and sad I can’t listen to music or read…and I FINALLY finished a book in four hours!! Essential Ingredients was a good read! Ha
Congrats!! The feeling of finally enjoying reading again after years is just bliss ✨🤓💛
@@emmelinesprig489 you GET it!?? Ha so many didn’t get it? I feel too much reading or listening to music and I had to turn it all off. It was a good book and I cried happy stuff I basically didn’t want to feel ha thx for getting it!! 💕
Yeah in their recent video P&M basically said that when Tim stands before God on the day of judgement, they think that God will not be impressed with what "the scholars" have to say about the Bible, and therefore will not very impressed with Tim for relying heavily on the word of said scholars. God will basically just be impressed with...what the Bible says about the Bible.
And let me l you, I was infuriated to hear them say that. Evangelicals, I've learned, really don't care much for scholars. Because scholars are a threat to their very carefully curated view of the Bible and Christianity.
@@CabsASMRif only theses evangelical hypocrites would even follow the Bible, they might have a point. But they don't. They cherry pick a few verses and disregard the rest. Tim has way more respect for the Bible than they do and they don't even realize it because they're so ignorant. I'd be surprised if they even ever read the whole Bible or even the whole new testament.
@MrSeedi76 Back when they were doing the talking with strangers segment Morgan told someone that reading the whole Bible is "very doable", so I can only assume that means she's done it. But then, who knows. The evangelical environment I grew up in heavily emphasized the importance of reading the entire thing. I myself have read through it twice, and let me tell you, doing so obliterated my fundamentalism. I think that if someone reads the entire Bible and still believes it's without error, they are either lying about their beliefs to save face OR they are HEAVILY dissociating when reading the problematic passages.
It’s quite interesting to see someone who really knows and studies the Bible and someone who just assumes the parts of a book he likes are true
Paul thinks the Bible speaks for itself. But it's a collection of ancient books. It's arrogant for us to assume we can just read it and understand it without any knowledge of the history and culture of the ancient people who wrote it down.
Ok this is my fave 24hrs as someone who believes in God & loves your channel for some of the same reasons. I love that 1. He’s so knowledgeable/realistic 2. He’s looked into so much of the context from that time, from the most reliable sources, looked into the difference in what certain words even meant. I LOVE that!! When my dad was alive he had the strongest faith & he was always questioning & learning like this as well. For as much as Paul argues, it’s interesting how few deeper points he has to debate or carry his thoughts.
This is juicy. Tim killed it.
But I do think Jesus would draw on mythology because he often taught using parables.
But I don't really like how Paul and Morgan constantly go into these "conversations" like they are interrogating their guests. And like you said, it's like they're trying to win them over to their view.
And something my pastor said recently was that the word translated as Eunuch can apply to anyone outside of the gender and sexual binary. And when the veil was torn in the temple upon Jesus death, that also allowed Eunuchs to worship in the temple. And that God has a special place for those people. And my pastor was like that can apply to the LGBT community today.
Also the term homosexual isn't in the Bible. The original term was effeminate which in that context referred to laziness and complacency.
I love what your pastor said!!!
My win for the week is that I did my first long drive (5 hours) with my 9 month old to see my beautiful niece and sister, and a few tears but we made it! And now I know we can do it, we can keep doing it!!
Yayyy congratulations!! That’s a huge mom win! ❤
Just got a car for the first time in 9 years, o have a 13 month old and big trips are scary. I’m glad you are accomplished that !!
@@coll4455 thank you!! It certainly feels like it
I’ve also read that the creation story is also set up as a poem meaning that it wasn’t taken literally but something passed down
I just want to say thank you for being transparent about the fear and panic “eternal” life brings up in you. I grew up in a Christian faith and that was the first concept I remember hitting me reaaaaal wrong. I started unpacking my afterlife beliefs in the last few months and it is TROUBLING. It’s really made me understand why religion is even a thing. It’s deep and dark and daunting for me.
I appreciate you! Always nice to have a reminder that we aren’t alone
I mildly ponder on how Paul & Morgan are when camera is off
Does Paul never use literary devices? I highly doubt he’s ever carried a large wooden cross anywhere.
So, am I right in saying that May 27 is your birthday? That’s my mother’s birthday. And my best friend’s birthday. And Henry Kissinger’s birthday… anyway happy birthday!
My Win for the Week… I’m a lot less feverish than I was earlier in the week.
I’d pay money to see Paul try to live out biblical instructions on a daily basis!
It is! Happy birthday to your mom and friend! 🎉🥳
And that’s good, glad the fever is going down!
It was my birthday too!
You are truly glowing, pregnancy definitely agrees with you! 💚
Thank you ☺️
I would respect Paul more if he came to the table with the level of research Tim did. Paul could easily find theologians, maybe even a few research studies that agree with him but he comes with "the Bible says," not even verses and context, while Tim comes with this expert and this study and this verse and the context of the verse.
I was hoping Paul would learn through this series, even if he just dug into research supporting his own ideas to defend himself on camera, but it doesn't seem like he has done that at all.
Excited for this reaction! Also excited for your reaction to Bethany and ZOTS and maybe the accompanying drama with the fundie snark subreddit
It’s so frustrating talking to fundamentalists because when you get down to the core tenets of some of their beliefs you realize how immoral they really are. Fighting against certain groups of people to not have human rights because of something they can’t change about themselves is just flat out wrong. But they never see it that way. Even though I’m not a Christian myself and I disagree with a lot of stuff they believe I never want to take that away from them. How can they not see how hypocritical they are?
I'm so glad that I'm queer.
I grew up in a fundamentalist home who was taught to believe that the Bible was THE word of God and to read the majority of passages LITERALLY and our form of "research" was reading other translated Bibles-no original language studies, no scholarly texts and interpretations, no looking into the history or culture-none of that...
The one "sin" that always bugged me WAS being homosexual because all the other sins were affecting and harming others and/or yourself (stealing, taking people's lives, lying on others for malicious reasons, etc.), but loving another person was supposed to be a sin?
And as I got older and couldn't suppress my queer identity any longer, that was the final straw that broke the camel's back for me as I started to ACTUALLY study the Bible and look up research papers on it and the original wording of it, which started my journey of breaking out of the fundamentalist mindset and beliefs.
The interruptions are driving me bananas. I once argued like this when I was a teenager but even if I did agree the guest is so articulate and able to defend his beliefs, that’s admirable
Girl, you’re glowing!! You look so pretty
Forgot my win of the week: spouse and i went to an amazing marriage workshop with licensed counselors this weekend
Happy 30th!! My win for the week was treating myself and my boyfriend to a date with delicious food.
It's kind of weird that Paul didn't mention that Jesus standard when it came to marriage basically was: if you are married now, stay married. But if you are not married now, do NOT get married because the end is at hand. Same thing with children. Marriage and children are for those who cannot stay celibate.
If you are interested in sexuallity and the bible I would recommend Jennifer Bird. She is a bible scholar, has written books on the topic, and she has a youtube channel that goes by her name if you want to find her.
That was Paul the apostle who said it's best not to marry, not Jesus.
I've seen some clips of Tim and Paul..
I said this with honesty... Tim feels comfortable and safe to hangout with then Paul.
Paul is quite uncomfortable and have a very opinionated aura around him.
Agreed. Tim looks very relaxed and confident in his beliefs but Paul just looks insecure and covering it with hostile arrogance
I'd love to hang out with Tim. Paul seems.... Difficult.
I find it odd for any Christian to not be a universalist; it implies that Jesus wasn’t strong enough to accomplish his goal or that God isn’t strong enough. An imperfect human obviously can’t forgive Hitler but God can. Imagine if Hitler was literally your son, that’s how God feels about him but more. He might be atoning or suffering for a millions of years but that’s fine, he’s got all the time in eternity to pay for his crimes and have a divinely inspired change of heart.
You can’t forfeit a gift, otherwise it wouldn’t be a gift!
I really like this guy. I am glad they did this one
I think it's going to be so interesting watching you react to Zelph & Dav & Bethy and compare Bethanys views now and how they changed with Paul and Morgan (in general, but specifically in regards to queer folks) since she and P&M came from a very similar place
I’m filming that reaction today! I’m anxious to see which topics they covered.
The difference is that Tim has some critical thinking skills and is willing to wrestle with scripture. Paul is told to believe certain things and doesn't question it.
Though yes, frustrating? I don’t find Tim as soo closed off? He seems to really think before he speaks and hear Paul out, where as Paul just jumps…Tim may not agree but he HEARS him..sadly, I think Morgan isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed.
I still found the conversation super interesting!! Tim’s intelligence sparks my brain! But when I listen to Paul and Morgan alone? I feel my IQ drop…I also find Paul’s returning back to the topic of homosexuality repeatedly….oddly closeted and interesting..he’s just sooo full of WANTING to be ale to hate a group of people!😢 and yes Paul you’re totally obsessed with sex!!!
Wow I’ve never heard of Tim before but I really like him
I’ve been waiting for your Zelph reaction, can’t wait! Happy birthday 🎉
I love Tim!!!!!! Loving seeing this. Thank you!!!
Paul is aloof cos he can't actually respond properly. He can't match Tim!
My win for the week: i got to cuddle my sisters cat! It was nice because it was the 1 year anniversary of my own kitty passing on.
This video introduced me to The New Evangelicals, which is nice, because I do think Tim does good work. I don't know that I would have replied to Paul's questions the same way he did, but I still think it was a very good convo. Many of their fans in the comments are ready to dismiss Tim out of hand, sadly, but I think it probably made at least some ppl question things, and see there is a different, more loving way of being a Christian.
I agree! I have some different viewpoints, but it was good to be able to see people with two VERY different perspectives have a civil conversation. I hope it opens the door to further conversations!
@@BHaney Same. Especially as a person who came BACK to religion, and who is queer and all that. So I had a very different journey from Tim's, but I appreciate his perspective and the work he does, from what I've seen. While I don't think P&M will be changed by this, the fact that some of their followers might, brings me hope. I also really appreciate your response to their video. Great work
Tim knows way way more than Paul or Morgan! I took a six month course through my Church 20 years ago called Bethel, it taught that the Bible is basically parables, mythology, and a way to give us a guide to live. But not to be taken literally! I really don’t think that Paul knows scripture at all!
Also, happy birthday, B!! 🥳🥳🥳
Love you B! Happy pride month everyone!
I really love your honesty about the fear of eternal life, that was my big first sticking point with deconstruction, it makes me feel incredibly anxious as well. thanks for sharing about that. I don't identify as christian anymore but I really enjoy watching your content about these things and these looks at how you're able to still so fully enjoy and get value from your faith while still also having a lot of the same things in your head that were sort of "shelf breakers" for me to use the exmormon slang for it. I think that's really cool
WFTW: I had dedicated my latest book collecting my webcomic to my former Art teacher from High School. She received her copy and was so touched by the dedication, and loved hearing how she made an impact on my life in her early years being a teacher. It was great to bond with my old mentor that way.
In the first ten seconds, I think the guy talking to Paul here is great! I want to see someone make Paul THINK about the stuff he spouts all the time! It's BEYOND time that Paul gets completely challenged on his stodgy, ridiculous standards. "Judge with Love"? Yeah right, not these two!
* "Grow in your beliefs"? Please!! You're doing it for views and clout, NOTHING ELSE!! Get real, you two!!
* Tim saying "That's the first step in Deconstructing!" about blueberry coffee..... LMAO!!!!
* Tim is GREAT!!! Love how he deconstructs Paul's overly-simplified answer! This is the challenging I have been waiting for! Love how Tim points out so many gray areas and complications in such a wide brushstroke answer!
* Paul is waiting for his "gotcha" moment and Tim isn't giving him an opportunity. It's so delicious to watch!
* Mark Driscoll is a moron! His parishioners need to kick him out of his church!
* Good question on "Traditional", B! We all know Paul's definition is pretty skewed!
* Paul is DROWNING in the discussion about LGBTQ+ people! He's grasping at straws and Tim is pulling his answers apart like a Tinker-Toy tower!
* See ya in Part II :)
Paul has zero debate skills and always, always comes off as the less educated “I learned this from the top answer on a google search” arguer. And it doesn’t matter who he debates! It’s the same every time!
This. This. This.
Happy birthday, B! 🎉 I turn 30 in July, I’m ready for it too. Be gone, 20s! My win for the week is that I got a promotion & a raise at work 😊
I watched TNE’s reaction to P&M’s 24 Hours With video. It was glorious watching Tim’s wife decide not to say anything at all because she couldn’t think of anything non-dehumanizing to say 😂 really appreciate both you & Tim’s educated viewpoints.
The part of Adam that Tim is talking about is in reference to the book The Lost World of Genesis 1 I believe. This was one of the pivotal moments in deconstruction (realizing the nuances of the Bible and it's more complex due to not understanding Hebrew and the translation).
I also have panic attacks when thinking of heaven and hell. It's for a different reason than you though I think. Mine is more along the lines of "I'm deconstructing and all my thoughts on certain stuff is changing so I'm definitely going to hell because how dare I question anything"
I'm not sure where it comes from entirely. My parents were always very encouraging to question things. But it usually hits when I stay up too late because then my brain spirals.
I haven't had those panic attacks in awhile so I'm hoping that means I'm healing from whatever is causing it.
It was interesting seeing them interview someone with this different of views. I might check out his channel too just out of curiosity. I don't agree with *everything* he says. But I'm always looking for people who seem to have "deconstructed" but still kept the faith. It's so hard to find...