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Good bye Lionel! The demise of a once great, iconic, company in my collection.
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- Опубликовано: 7 янв 2023
- Selling off my massive Lionel Collection due to bad quality control, lack of customer service, and part availability from Lionel.
We appreciate your candor and a well done sharing. Quality control for such very expensive, high markup hobby items should be priority one for lionel. These are often small but important problems-- missing, misassembled, or broken parts that should be resolved with patience, resolved quickly with priority by lionel. We value your input gary j
Agreed, thank you Gary. I’m a very patient person, but have my limits. I think anyone that had their issues go unresolved, with so many of them compounding, would finally throw in the towel no matter how much they used to advocate for, and love Lionel products. Too many disappointments.
All I have to say is thank you for putting this video out. I bet there are many including myself that have experienced issues maybe not to your extent but we all should not have to. Again thank you for being a voice to Lionel.
Thank you Dennis, I appreciate the comment. Agreed, as I mentioned, whether you buy one item or several over, it should be a consistent experience with better quality items and less frustration getting issues resolved. 👍
I absolutely agree. Now add that MTH is no longer a big competitor I suspect Lionel's quality and quality control will dip even lower. Always sorry to hear about people's bad experiences with Lionel, there's too many stories and the numbers growing. TX for sharing.👍
Thank you for the comment, agreed, that is a big concern, lack of options and competition is never a good thing. People have really been talking about their issues from Lionel and thanking me. I thought I just had really bad luck, but it looks like a lot of people have had similar experiences.
@bobdutka1176 yeah what he said agreed 👍
@kevinrice7635 agreed!
Mike, your understanding of the recent Lionel train issues is greatly appreciated. I am afraid Lionel will lose much of their customer base.
Thank you, with a little more effort and better customer support and quality control measures, they could be a good company to deal with. Expensive products with poor quality and support is a going out of business plan for sure. 👍
"We don't do anything on locomotives when they're damaged in shipping." Given Mike's report of inadequate packing when items are returned from Lionel, that in itself is a deal-breaker.
That one was so tough to take, especially when I repack them the exact same way they were packed at the factory to send them in for service and get them back with the locomotives just placed in the styrofoam without any of the plastic wrapped around them or the rubber or foam pieces put back in place to keep them from moving back and forth and secure the trucks from scratching the tender and cylinders. Yet the packing materials are returned wadded up in an open compartment of the styrofoam instead of taking the time to pack them back up correctly. Some damage could have been avoided for sure.
You pretty much summed up everything I’ve been experiencing…I have a 6 year old son that loves his Lionel trains and he has no idea the frustration I go through trying to keep these things running behind the scenes. Just like you, I have Visionline, Legacy, LionChief and they all have had at one point or another massive tear apart time consuming fix issues pretty much from the day I opened them. I stopped sending stuff back because waiting months multiple times made it just not worth the hassle. Now I’m do all the repairs myself..ugh!..Lionel Customer service has been continually rude with me as if they were on a mission to find out WHAT I DID so I’d have to pay for warranty work…From non operating electro couplers, loose/missing screws, gear issues, light issues, sound issues, paint issues, board issues and of course the absolute junk smoke units..Then trying to get parts has now become a nightmare!..I still love them when they run, but man has it been frustrating!..Great video
Thank you for sharing your story and checking out the channel. Sorry to hear you’ve had a similar experience to me. I hear about experiences like ours more and more. Maybe they will eventually get things figured out around quality control and quit passing the blame onto their customers at some point, and show some appreciation. Hopefully your son always has some favorites to run to keep him happy and interested in the hobby versus being disappointed when favorites don’t work. Have a happy Thanksgiving, and have fun running some trains!
Mike
Thank you! Finally, someone has posted a video like this! I have had the same type of problems over the last four years. Thank you, Mike. I'm sorry to hear you've had all the same heartache. You are doing the right thing. Are you setting up at the St. Charles show? I'll come by to shake your hand.
Hi! Thank you, yes I will be at the show, see you there!
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies at at Charles I’ll?
St Charles MO
I wouldn't say you were ranting. I think you explained it well. You are not alone and you hit the nail on the head. Poor manufacturing and quality control. Lionel has a packaging problem too. Even simple box cars arrive with broken applied parts like ladders and brake wheels. That's unheard of. Atlas and MTH aren't like that. For what these TOYS cost it should be perfect. Thanks for this video. And one last thing. I don't want to run my trains from my phone or tablet.
Thank you for your comment! I hear you for sure on the packaging. Lionel couldn’t understand why I wanted them to replace the rolling stock boxes in my SP Visionline freight set. Somehow, all of the boxes within the set box were smooshed. Like top down, not side to side, and the set box and shipper were fine?!!! They acted like I was crazy, made me send picks of everything, and still did nothing. Not even a sorry. All this was before I figured out the tender paint job was terrible and the locomotive had board issues. That was the first major frustration from them and down hill since! Thanks again!
Amen!! I don't want to run mine from my phone or tablet either. That phone is in my hands all the time and sometimes I need a break from it. I have Legacy, DCS and DCC, each with their own hand held units and I run conventional as well.
I agree! 👍
Wow Michael, wow… I’m speechless. I’m a little over 30 grand into my set up and just made my first pre-order for the new Big Boy. This leaves me with a lot of trepidation and something to ponder going forward. I definitely don’t have time for the headache you have faced. Going to reconsider big purchases and be content with what I have.
Definitely first world problems, and if Lionell continues to manage its customers, as you have experienced, I’m done!
First world problems for sure! Also just getting started in O about 5 years ago, and so excited about it because of Lionel’s 100+ year legacy, I abandoned N and HO for the most part selling off a lot of my collections to get similar models in O, not I regret it because what I had wasn’t problematic and if it was, it was an economical fix and wasn’t $600 to $2500 to begin with. Talk about deflating and disappointing!
There getting to expensive for a fix income retired guy, and middle income guys.
Agreed!
I’m so sorry you’ve had all these problems. I’ve only had a couple issues from Lionel products (both most likely due to shipping). The plow on my Cab Forward was a little bent and loose in the the box when I received it and one side of a caboose’s truck was broken. I don’t blame you for stopping to buy their newer products. Videos like these are hopefully seen by Lionel so that they can focus their attention to aspects such as customer service or overall quality control. That Cobra will be nice, enjoy!
I’m happy to hear you haven’t had too many issues. I was on a good luck streak in 2017 and 2018, only a couple minor things like that, not really deal breakers but annoying or disappointing I should say, since we are excited to get new stuff and it’s damaged. Now the odds of me buying something that doesn’t have a problem seems to be like the odds of winning a lottery. Not good! Lol. Thanks for checking out my video, and yes, I hope enough people express concern and voice their opinion that it forces Lionel to take another look at their business model/plan and make changes on their approach to quality control, service department, and customer service.
I think this is a good move. Stop “investing” in things that give you more headaches than runtime. There are other aspects of trains than just stockpiling items that you never unbox. I know I have found a whole new level of interest in just talking with like-minded train junkies and finding out how they “do” the hobby. To me, talking trains is just as fun as collecting and running trains. Looking forward to seeing where you go from here!
Agreed Wes! I’m working on my layout right now! 😉. Thank you!
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies yo no lo vendería, nadie tiene en Europa colecciones como esta
Long time subscriber, I wish you the best and am looking forward to all your up coming videos and what ever direction you take your train hobby in.
Thank you, I appreciate it! Was working on my layout tonight. New video, more upbeat, coming soon!
Hey Mike....
The last Lionel train I purchased was the US Navy set from 1994. I've heard much too much about Lionel's products lately. I'm strictly conventional....why pay the price and take any chances. I fully agree with your thoughts. Good for you ! Thank goodness for MTH. Happy New Year...looking forward to your next running session video. Thank You !
p.s. The B&O Royal Blue set behind you is a beauty ! 👍
Thank you Jim! I still have fun running conventional also. One of my friends actually converts his scale steamers to conventional with an e unit if the electronics break, he doesn’t even fool with it. He likes postwar, but likes some of the big modern steam. So doesn’t bother him not having any tmcc or DCS, or sounds. Now I’m understanding why he does that, just smoke, big steamers, and conventional action with no worries, other then when his is going to get time to run his trains again. Lol 👍
I’m hardcore post war Lionel trains. Lionel trains were built tough to last when they were made here in the states. And they are easy to work on and will last for years and years. Lionel went to crap once they sold out to China, they will never ever be the same and I will never own any Lionel made in China. My parents gave me my very first Lionel train set back in 1965 with the figure 8 track and loved it.
I do love the postwar trains! Those are what drew me to O, used to have fun for hours with my Grandpa running his Santa Fe Postwar set!
Well, this is what happens when you have a SHELL of a company that use to be back in the days, a real AMERICAN toy company, now you have individuals who didn't have the the company at heart and sold it's soul to China, quality suffers, parts catch on fire, and when you do the right thing you are treated like a sucker.their new product line looks like a joke. Like the lady at Lionel told me WE ARE NOT LIKE THE OLD LIONEL!!! 😳 And said to myself BABY YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.
You’re absolutely right, so many fans are trying to hold onto and support them is a way based on “what Lionel was” and ignore “what Lionel is” now. I was one for sure but learned fast.
Most kids don't play with trains anymore, it's like rock n roll only the old groups still make music. Nothing lasts forever, only your dreams carry on
@user-lw9pj7yz1l for sure.
Yeah and now Lionel is playing damage control and has moved into Vietnam 🇻🇳 instead of America how sad is that.....they must think Vietnam is going 2 do a better job than China making their products I think they need 2 well not need to.... they must bring production back 2 America and bring back thousands of jobs with multiple manufacturer plants here on American Soil What happened to Loyalty to our own country former Ceo's and founder of Lionel is spinning fast in his grave furious of what Lionel is doing making cheap products over seas instead of making it in America
My old MPC engine that I got in 1979 old KLine engine is still running....How great is that.... I Garrantee no Modern Lionel engine will ever last that long without having 2 send it off all the time getting fixed my KLine I never had to have it fixed except servicing it which I do it myself
Mike, great video. I am actually taking a similar approach to the hobby now. Out of the 4 engines I purchased from Lionel in the last two years, 3 of them have issues. The one that put the final nail in the coffin was the Vision Class A. After one loop around the track it came to a jolting hault and the cab light was flickering. Gearbox appears to be locked up. The front step on the boiler is hitting the pilot light, and the rear trailing truck fell out. It’s just not worth the hassle. I’ll stick with getting some used 3rd rail stuff and be happy with that
Sorry to hear that! That should have been one of the highlights of your collection, or any collection. Tragic for sure, now you will have to deal with the back and forth and packing and unpacking of the locomotive again. Hopefully they fix it right and don’t damage it more in the process. Very disappointing for sure. 😕
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies yep, couldn’t agree with you more. It’s a huge disappointment. One another note, keep us posted on car content. I have been restoring cars since I have been 12 and starting a RUclips channel on it soon
Very cool, let me know when you start your channel! I’ll be your first subscriber! I’ll keep you posted as well. 👍
I am sorry to hear how bad quality control has become on newer Lionel trains. I have bought older Lionel trains and they usually still run as good as when they were new. With the high prices and poor quality control and then poor or no customer service after the fact I feel we may see the demise or sale of Lionel trains soon.
Thanks, Mike, for the Condor. I am so sorry for the issues encountered and agree with your path forward. A hobby is supposed to bring joy and fun, not what you have encountered. I wish you luck with the other manufacturers look and forward to many more years of O scale content on your channel, even if not new Lionel.
Thank you Scott! I appreciate the comment and compliment! I love this hobby, and hope to have many more years of enjoyment from it.
My friend, I share your frustration with Lionel. I also purchased locos which fried , smoke unit malfunctions and circuit board meltdown. Can't find any local hobby distributor who wants to deal with Lionel products. They all tell me to talk to Lionel. Sad that it was us enthusiast for Lionel who helped bring the hobby back in the 80's and 90's beyond. Today, the "Big" rollers of Lionel have forgotten about us little people who helped Lionel come back.
That is sad to hear, our local shops here in town say the same thing, and order little to no Lionel for the most part, unless you ask them to preorder something or try to find an item for you at a distributor. Ho, N, Scale, slot cars, and RC cars are now filling up the shelves that used to be O Scale. Lionel is biting several of the different hands that feed them. The path they chose has been very sad to see and experience. Thank you
You can't beat the quality of the 20th century post war Lionel products. Anyone who is handy can repair and service them. Parts are still available even if they are reproductions. I have Lionel and Marx trains and accessories. A close friend is a toy train dealer and he has told me of the horror stories of the current production line. I notice that most of the outrageously priced Lionel products are manufactured In China so I wouldn't purchase them even if I could afford them. I'm glad that you presented this expose.
Thank you Gary, I have my fair share of postwar for sure, fun, low maintenance and overall durable. We need a good option for the more prototypical stuff in O Scale as well, I like the best of both worlds for sure. Thanks for the comment and sharing, lots of horror stories from our local dealers and several of my friends as well.
Post war basically used the same components for many decades.
The modern stuff is so bad bc it is high tech q crap build quality. They are difficult to repair, most repair shops can't fix them, and there are no repair parts. Once the engine sells out , that is it, and on to the next 4k engine
@njlauren tough lesson to learn for sure.
Mike,
That is a shame you've encountered so many problems.
It is a new year and sounds like you have a plan. Good luck and I hope the year is a good one for you and Christian with the trains and layout.
Thank you Henry!
I am downsizing my collection as well. I am keeping my postwar and getting rid of modern era stuff. You are also 100 percent right about the pool of buyers, some want everything for 3 cents on the dollar.
Be patient, and there is a buying for everything. Although what just sold for me best at the train show this weekend, was modern, scale, steamers and diesel that are on the rails right now. The postwar remake and less detailed stuff sold, just not nearly as well and had much lower prices than the scale stuff. There is a shift happening for sure. 👍
Thank You so much for posting this video. Lionel really is out of it's mind with these astronomically insane prices and absurd warranty and customer service base. Lionel is the reason why I only buy MTH products and will continue to do so forever. I got banned on a Facebook group for making a post criticizing Lionel's new 2023 catalog. People these days seriously can't handle the truth.
You’re welcome, I saw several group admins stating to only post positive stuff, so I said nothing at all, it’s like so many are in denial about how bad it really is. I’m excited when I get something with no issues, but it’s not worth the risk of ordering any more. Thank you for the comment, agreed, they can’t handle the truth, or don’t care.
@Motocraze40 2018 , Lionel is essentially taking the same path that Sunset 3rd Rail had. Very limited quantity, little to no parts available and no warranty of any kind. It's really a sin to purchase a very expensive and cost prohibited model like the one's Lionel is making and than having nothing but problems right out of the box. A friend of mine who's in my local train club 10 years ago bought the than new Lionel Vision Line PRR Baldwin Centipede diesel's and he had nothing but problems with it as soon as he got it. Fast foward 10 years later to today and he still can't get the parts to fix it and get it back up and running. He's now stuck with a $2400 engine that's now and has been for the past 10 years a shelf piece. It's just disgusting. I have 25 MTH Premier engine's and only one Lionel Legacy steam engine that thankfully has not had any issues as of yet. I'm hoping it doesn't.
That is terrible to hear for sure! I like MTH, and have still been buying the specialty runs in 2021 and 2022, yet to have an issue. 👍
Oh my God. That poor man.
Get this, I reached out to Ryan Kunkle of Lionel, and he told me the new Legacy C&O F19 Pacific's are going to now be further delayed because of a deco issue they found once they finally got them in from the factory. He said they have to ship them back overseas to China to the factory to correct the issue because they can't do it in-house at Lionel in NC. I went on the FB groups and did the right thing by letting everyone know about that because it was the right thing to do. That's something that Lionel would never do. They did that to all of the Strasburg fans when the Strasburg engine took three years to finally show up. During those three years, they never once kept anyone who ordered updated until they at last arrived. Get this, he was pissed off at me for telling everyone about the updates regarding the C&O F19s. If that was sensitive information, then he never should have told me right from the very beginning. I can do whatever I want with that information. A lot of people who were expecting to get their C&O F19's are now at a loss for words. Screw Lionel! GO MTH!
I know you’re a big MTH fan Alex, I am as well, although at one time I liked Lionel and MTH about equally. I’ve stopped buying new Lionel and continue to buy brand new MTH releases, knock on wood, I have not had an issue with any of the 15 locomotives I’ve purchased since MTH has restructured. Lionel could learn something from them. Now, I haven’t had to deal with any warranty stuff which is my biggest complaint about Lionel aside from quality control that causes the majority of Lionels issues. Mth just has them built right the first time. I saw your post about the C&O F19, I almost ordered three different versions, I even sold my two with Odyssey and TMCC which had no issues, thinking I would order the new Legacy versions, but then I had my falling out with Lionel. I see Lionel hasn’t fixed the quality control issues still. Thanks for your comment Alex, you are right, you had the right to discuss it if it was discussed with you.
New to the channel - awesome video! I did a video not too long ago on the “new” Vietnamese man. Flat spot box cars. My PC box had an issue with the couplers and they wouldn’t couple to anything but weaver cars. Lionel said they knew about the issue…. Couldn’t believe they’d send something out without QC. The switches also were wired incorrectly haha
Thanks for watching! Wow, that is crazy, sorry to hear you experienced that. Maybe they need to send someone over from the US that knows about trains and what the consumer expects, plus how they should be to begin with, to be the quality control person on the pre production before they start to make a run, and inspect during and after production. Seems like any easy enough to fix and process other manufacturers use. Thanks for checking out my video.
I agree. Lionel is not going to be a wise path to follow with O scale trains. There are alternatives in O scale. It is unfortunate, because if they were a reliable organization with a quality product I would be a continuing customer.
Agreed, Lionel was a favorite, but they can only burn someone so many times before they chase them off. Great potential, bad overall execution as a company. Sad for sure. Thanks for the comment! 👍
I don't have the means to buy anything really expensive, but I've had problems with about 1/3 of the new Lionel products I've purchased in the last two years. I find it funny that several RUclips reviewers say "that's part of the hobby", "they have a long way to travel", "gives me something to do on a rainy day"- or similar. If you're paying $1500 or more for an engine it should be perfect, and last quite a while.
Agreed! I would rather they send me everything as a kit and let me put it together myself and provide replacement parts than have stuff not work out of the box and be missing parts or have cosmetic flaws. Some people’s standard of what’s acceptable are really compromised if they deem what Lionel is producing and selling these days is just part of the hobby.
Well said. If i were to collect Lionel again, I would get some postwar and Richard Kughn era. Today it’s either HO or N for model railroading for me. I have a had a few mth items and I was fascinated by the detail, I wanted an engine but Mth had a reputation for customer service when the engines crapped out
I started in HO as a kid, then my first house I bought was small so I switched to N, had N for the next 20 years. Then in 2017 started buying O, sold off 75% of my N, regrettably. Then with all the issues with new Lionel and their customer service the past two years, it really made me to decide to start buying more HO and N again, and some Z, S, and G. Mostly N and HO though, I’ll always have those scales because that’s what I grew up loving! 🙂
True,I've been staying away from the high dollar new stuff.
Yours is not the first collection of horror Lionel stories that I have heard. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I am avoiding the high end of Lionel, and stick mostly to MTH for new product, though I will buy older lionel trains (MPC Era) as I enjoy tinkering with them. Great video!
Thank you for checking out the video. My first purchases in O were MTH and older Lionel, l should have stuck with that strategy. I’ve pretty much gone back to that now having sold the majority of my Lionel Legacy locomotives outside of a few favorites that MTH didn’t have available. Tinkering with them is a very fun aspect to this hobby for sure!
I sure understand. I took years off from buying Lionel and just recently started buying again. I used to buy nothing but Lionel but the QC has gotten so bad. I will say I had a positive experience with lionel customer service recently. Received my 2-10-4 Texas with a marker light missing a lens. Sent an email and they sent a new one out within a couple days. I absolutely dread having to send anything in though, I've received plenty back worse than when I sent them in. My only remedy I've found is buying from a large dealer that will take back the stuff that comes broken. I've become a big buyer of 3rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot. The stuff is better detailed and Scott Mann actually replies to emails. Used to love Lionel with Mike Reagan running things, I would send an email and he would get it taken care of. They really messed up losing him.
Wow, that is fast, I’ve just been trying to get two magnets, I wire harness, two little washers, and brake lines….not much to ask for, and what the locomotives should have already come with. Trainworld did get the Tender replaced for me on my Visionline Freight set, they have been the most eager big dealer to help. I had one with a really bad paint job, and the plastic stuck to the paint so was put in box wet or something. I’ve bought a lot of stuff I didn’t preorder from them and never had an issue with Trainworld.
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I can't believe they never got back with you. Seems so simple (and is) to just ship some parts out. Really unfortunate. I was upset with Lionel for two reasons, one was the stuff was broken, and the other was I really wanted to buy from Lionel but they made it clear for quite a while they didn't want my business even after spending probably 6 figures over the years. I ended up fixing a lot of things myself. The NW2's from a few years ago that came with the trucks/driveshaft disconnected were the first real dive I did. Ended up doing a write up on OGR on how to fix them.I still have some Legacy F3's that came with electro couplers detached and a set of the old CSX F40's that do nothing but make a loud clicking sound when running. Sent them in and Lionel sent them back saying they were fine. Absolute bs. Can't think of many other things I pay thousands for that if they come broken don't get fixed. I hold my tongue a lot when its comes to some other youtubers that seem to think Lionel can do no wrong and almost seem to shill for them a bit, but I guess they always get taken care of. Like you I got to the point it was causing me more stress than anything and threw in the towel for 4 or 5 years. Nicholas Smith trains has been my go to for along time. Only reason I haven't been using train world as well is they charge tax for out of state stuff and on a 2k engine thats still a chunk.
Wow! I have the Santa Fe NW2, it was one of my first Legacy Diesels I bought brand new. I can tell my rear truck is about to fall off, it works fun but that truck is hanging way down. I need to find your video. Agreed, so many act like they never have issues, impossible! When your channel is monetized and your depending on reviewing trains or visiting a Lionel factory for income, I guess you have to drink the Lionel Koolaide and bite your tongue. Not this guy! Lol. Sorry you’ve had so many issues as well. I had no idea it was going to be an ongoing issue after so many complaints from other people on their NW2’s, broken legacy steamers, parts falling off 21” cars, diesels with wrong paint schemes, Visionline challengers with the wrong chuff programmed into them, Verandas with trucks not screwed on, the list goes on and on and on now. 😏
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies That screw for the truck is inside the shell going down so the shell has to be removed. Not a big deal but you'll have to pop the rear handrails out which is kinda scary. One of those things that really boiled down to the factory didn't tighten any of the screws. Silly stuff.
Silly for sure, they didn’t tighten a front pilot screw all the way on one of mine and I didn’t realize that before putting it on the track, and you should have seen the sparks flying and the smoke pouring out of it as it burned up during the first have loop of track. All because of a front pilot screw not being installed all the way….quality control.
Mike, thank you for sharing the issues you have with Lionel. The imperfections on the Lionel items you received and the lack of quality customer service is disappointing. It’s perplexing to hear that Lionel reached out to you and failed to promptly follow up with an appropriate and timely action plan to resolve ALL of your issues. Keep us updated on the resolution of your issues.
FYI….. I’ve subscribed to your channel and plan to look at other videos that you’ve posted! Good luck, Mark
Sounds good, still no call back. It’s been almost 5 weeks. At this point, since I went ahead and picked up all my preorders I’m only looking for answers on a few things.
Wire harness issue on the polar express
Give back the pieces that were left off of my Northern when they serviced it and some compensation for the scratches and damage caused while being serviced, then the bent cab and cow catcher when packing materials were left out when shipped back, they were in the box fyi, just in different compartments than the locomotive. I wish they would buy that one back since it was 1 or 25.
The brake lines and washers missing from my NS FS’s that we have gone back and forth on for the last year.
Now I wish I didn’t have to follow through on my preorder F7’s I just picked up because I’m not happy with them.
We will see if I ever get anywhere, and the shop I buy my preorders from is trying to get the parts for me as well and no luck so far.
Doesn’t look hopeful.
Thank you for the update.
You’re welcome!
The unfortunate problem in my opinion is the current ownership. They are selling a name that they really no longer understand what and how that company was. In my research about K-line the fact that that Lionel company sued them out of business over a sound system broken agreement and won. So I see it as them taking out all competition and sell to collectors at the highest price and if it is missing parts or quality control who cares, if the customer wants it then they have to come crawling back to Lionel LLC.
Mike, I got back into the hobby about 2 years ago and bought many items and sets, Lionel N.Y. and newer, MarX, American Flyer OEM, K-line, MTH, RMT, Kusan, Williams, Weaver. Yes, I have turned my little house into a warehouse, even more then before and then really wanted to set up a operating layout in my back bedroom. Really wanted to do that 12 years ago when I moved here. So I got my table of sorts set up, but my house is just full of stuff. As of last week I decided the past history stuff will be going out to a storage unit in the next few weeks so I can breath, and then hopefully little by little work through that stuff and sell, if I can, what I really don't want and the rest set aside for junk. Then call up 1 800 got junk and have them take it away out of the storage unit. I had a mostly to family computer business for many years, and I see no need to be keeping that stuff anymore. I just turned 60 in January...
I agree with you 100% on lionel, just about dollars and cents with people running it that most likely had little to no interest in model railroading these days. I’m sure there are still a few employees but I don’t think the main decision makers are. Yes! So easy to over collect with so much available. I’m happy to hear you started a layout and can run some of your collection. Hard to decide what to part with I’m sure!
Sorry to hear of your customer service (or lack of it) experience. Being in sales myself, it always has been important that one treats the company’s customers with some respect, especially if you are expecting repeat sales! Watching many UTube videos and hearing both compliments and complaints on various companies products, this medium does help get the word out.
Because of my self imposed budget for this hobby and gauge, most of my purchases were of the early MTH with original Proto sound. They may lack all those features, but I have to say that they are indestructible when it comes to running on my layout.
Hope that you are successful in pairing down your collection. And I’m really sorry you gave up your C7 to get to this experience.
Thank you for your comment! I was just running my big Chessie steam turbine, it’s Proto1. With all the new bells and whistles of proto3 and Legacy, I still have great appreciation for how well and smooth proto1 stuff runs, and it’s typically very affordable! I see more of it in my future as well. I like to watch trains run, I have removed all switches from my layout, proto1 is a great option for me also. Thank you for your comment.
I feel your pain Mike, i have some issues as well with recent items. Made my blood boil when the guy said there just toys. With that said i back you on this and understand.
Zaine! Nice to hear from you! I’m sorry you are having some difficulty also. You cannot believe how frustrated I am, I feel your pain for sure. I’ve been working on my layout and running trains all night so I’m in the zone right now, even considering picking up my class A tomorrow during lunch…I’m an addict for sure. You don’t know how hard it is not to pick up my new stuff! I’ll never quit this scale or hobby, I love it too much and I would never allow Lionel to ruin that for z Christian and I. Take care! 👍
That would have made me fume as well. A $2K locomotive with high levels of detailing is NOT a toy, it's a model representation of something real. I like my 3rd Rail models over Lionel anymore.
@ralphmiller8087 I discovered 3rd rail a couple years ago and have been very happy with their products, both new and used since. They are the best looking models for sure and the ones equipped with TMCC and cruise run just fine for me. 👍🙂
Mike, sorry to hear about your Lionel issues. Good luck with the Cobra, I had an ERA back in the day - car was a blast. Backdraft looks like a nice product. Considering a GT40 next. Hope you continue to make content.
Thank you! Yes I will continue to make content! There are key pieces I’m still hunting for and will always buy 3rd Rail, Atlas, and MTH! 👍
What’s with this Cobra talk?? 🤢🤮 no need to get the Lionel of the car brands too…. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
That’s funny, lol! I’m not parting with my Hellcat, so I’m keeping my options there. 🙂. Thanks for checking out my video and channel! I love yours!
I had issues with Lionel Rolling Stock as well. They really got bad on QC of their scale rolling stock after they moved some of the production to Vietnam a couple of years ago.
I noticed that also.
Interesting! The same complaints all around the world; American model railroaders rant about Lionel, British about Hornby, and German about Märklin. Rising prices, decreasing quality. Where did the hobby derail?
Not sure, it is a sad state of affairs for sure for the model railroaders out there.
I was at a train show this weekend. And a lot of people had stated, that they too have seen this happening with there new buys. Some even stated that support is very bad from Lionel. Maybe they will drop the pricing on there product line to match the new quality of the product, or lack of. Even the ready run sets are not at there best.
Thank you for your comment! Absolutely, I agree they need to align their prices with their quality. I have trouble with starter sets, which are still $400 dollars, and Visionline which is supposed to be their best offerings, and get the equally poor offers for resolution and support. If they are going to treat them like throw away or insignificant purchases, they need to price them that way for sure like other companies out there that are China made and not supported if there is an issue, more of a throw away item. Not good for our environment and land fills though! Would be nice to get them to produce great quality, low defect rate, products for sure as the best all around solution.
Man! So glad I looked at your video! You may have saved me a ton of money! I’m brand new in this hobby. Haven’t bought anything yet! I was looking at Lionel Starter kits. I don’t think Im gonna do that now. My question is what would you recommend as a starter kit? I’m 80 years old and I had Lionels when I was 7-10 years old. Price is not the real issue. I’m interested in diesel locomotives that operated in Mississippi now or the past. I’m thinking O guage. But it seems HO is the most popular. Can you recommend something other than Lionel?
Hi, awesome that you’re getting into the Hobby. I’ve had really good luck with Atlas, MTH, and 3rd Rail Brands in O Gauge. I started out with HO when I was a kid and my Grandpa had O. I also into N scale from 1995 to present and still have HO. All scales have brands that can be very dependable. It really comes down to the size trains you like and also the variety of locomotives and rolling stock in the road names you can find that you like in each scale. O scale seems to have the largest variety of steam locomotives which are my favorite and the size makes them awesome to watch run.
Thank you for this video, I totally agree re. Lionel. I started Lionel beginning of this year and encounter permanently quality issues :
1) flawed paint of the Locomotive of "Lionel The Polar Express freight train" which I returned.
2) Then ordered the "Lionel Polar Express" with the 2-8-4 Locomotive. Result : Yellow whistle was bent due to sloppy packing. smoke fluid in the box was leaking.
3) Lastly when I unboxed the so-called Lionel "Deluxe" 50 Piece O Gauge Model Train Track set today I had to find out that 50 pieces 6 - i.e. more than 10% - are missing.
Hi, thanks for checking out the channel. Sorry to hear you had bad experiences, and so many in a short time as well. I’ve never experienced anything remotely like the quality control issues from Lionel from any other purchases I’ve made in my life. Whether it’s hobby related or anything else. A lot of people still swear by Lionel though. When it works or doesn’t have a cosmetic issue or flaw, it is pretty neat.
At least some of your engines ran for a little bit. I bought a used lionchief that the seller claimed didn’t run so I figured what the heck let’s give it a shot. Put 16 volts to it and the sounds came on as normal and then BANG. Sounded like a gunshot. Can’t say that ever happened with any of my MTH stuff
In 2018 I had that happen on one MTH dealer appreciation GG1 set. It was PS2 5Volt and I was new to O and didn’t know about checking the battery and speaker before running one that was never used. I blame my inexperience because I’ve never had an issue with MTH since. Knock on wood. That was a set over 20 years old so I wasn’t upset and I had it repaired. The price of the set was half of when it was released as well. Now, the current Lionel stuff, happens all to often much like your experience. Thank you for sharing. I’ve personally had really great experiences with MTH, nothing I’ve purchased brand new has never had an issue, and the couple things I’ve had an issue with that were used, parts were easy to come buy to repair.
I always wanted a big boy for my modest layout. I got the lionmaster big boy a couple of years ago. When little parts fell out of the box of a brand new engine I knew I was done buying anything with a motor. I have devoted my hobby time to scenery and tightening up electrical work and I am so much happier for it.
Wow, I can imagine how disappointing that must have been. To get a Bigboy and have issues right out of the box, I say that because it’s one of my favorite locomotives and took me some time to work up the nerve to spend that much money on one at the time. I am definitely shifting to more scenery and working on my train room right now as well. I made it through the last train show only buying 3 signs, two MTH Premier cars, and a HO Milwaukee Road F7 A-B set I had been watching the last four local shows the seller was at and he finally made me an offer I couldn’t refuse! Thank you for your comment. 👍
I used to be an operator but now I only want to purchase trains to both collect and display !
Got ya, that’s a fun part of the hobby also. 👍
Hey Mike. I share your sediments. The model train industry is heading down a dark path. I am predicting bad thinks happening. Just another sign of the times. You are making the right decisions. Can the industry recover well only time will tell.
I agree! They want to product products from the lowest possible bidder, with the least expensive parts, regardless of quality. Yet demand high prices, with bad customer service and support, knowing their products have issues. I definitely didn’t run into this in the other scales or hobbies I have. It is looking dark! I have plenty to run and enjoy if I never buy another Lionel again. 😉. Thank you 👍
You are 100% correct I’ve had so many problems with new era Lionel , probably 85% of what I bought is just plain junk . I’m done with them ..
Sorry to hear you have had a similar experience to me. I’ve only been in O a short time and did the last 3 years in a row of preorders, it didn’t take long for them to run me off.
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies yep , I lost it with them and called consumer services , it’s ridiculous they are in business ...
Understandable for sure! 👍
I haven’t bought any of Lionel’s steam engines. All of my engines are modern diesels. But I appreciate the information about the quality control. I’ve only had one issue with damage from packing. The front hose were broken completely off. They replace the front. Got it back in four weeks. I was planning on purchasing the new Big Boy in the next catalog. But now I might look elsewhere. That’s a lot of money with spotty quality control and service. Your not the first person to make that decision. It happening to often. Thanks for your info.
Thank you! I’ve only had the issue with my F7 diesels so far that I mentioned in the video, I also had a LegacyUP Diesel that wouldn’t program, and a Trainmaster that the smoke unit fan would run but no heat right out of the box. Both in the past 2 years.
I’ve been collecting O since I was 7 and I have found Lionel engines going downhill. The sounds they are putting in aren’t correct for what you’re paying we deserve the best! I’ve been more impressed with the other manufacturers you talked about and most of my fleet is MTH and Atlas. I have older lionel engines that work great luckily. I had bad luck with an S4 I bought, SW and alco FA. I sold all of them off. Bad QC. The rolling stock luckily has been better and with less issues.
Thank you for your comment, sounds like we have found the same solution to keep adding to our fleets. Took me a while to figure it out because buying older Lionel locomotives to start, I rarely had issues. Then when I decided to order brand new models they did have quality issues and the sounds are pretty generic now. Thanks for checking out the channel. 🚂👍
THANK YOU, I BEEN VILIFIED ON RUclips FOR TELLING PEOPLE this same thing
Definitely a sensitive subject for some and they think this type of experience is ok as long as they are getting the broken or sub par items covered under warranty or fixing them, themselves. I’ve had a few Vilified comments for sure, but far more commenting on their similar experiences and disappointments as mine. Big L thrives on the ones that will continue to support and buy no matter what, which doesn’t make it compelling for them to address all of the issues in their business model and products. Thank you for your comment! We are in this together for sure! 👍
The last item I bought from Lionel was my N&W Visionline Class A. Fortunately, it arrived with absolutely no negative issues but upon hearing other people's experiences with poor quality control, makes me not want to purchase from Lionel again unless the item is in front of me and functions properly before I buy - like in the old days when you could go to the store, sample the product then buy it.
Agreed, that’s the issue with the built to order model for sure, and only the big shops have a some back up for store stock but always want Lionel to repair and deal with issue instead of giving another from store stock, which I don’t blame them either. It’s just a bad situation for the consumer and shop when there are issues, so bad situation all together with OCC stuff.
Thank you for posting this- my TMCC locomotives from 1999-2004 still run better than the Reading T-1 I purchased in 2021. Lionel is not a good thing anymore.
The fit and finish on them seems to be a lot less flawed as well. I have some from those years also. Thank you for the comment. 👍
If I was standing in place of you ….. From the very beginning to end this could have been a video I posted ! Let’s start out with when Mike Regan left Lionel he took the QC with him ! From then on every purchase was loaded with surprises 😢 The only reason there still in the game is there is no other competition PERIOD …… With the price of these trains it’s ridiculous ! I feel your pain and I’m exactly where your at with Lionel and there lack of caring that most generally falls on deaf ears !
Thank you for your comment, I definitely learned the hard way being new to O and expecting the same quality control and reliability I had with other scales, I didn’t really have to worry about customer service either since nothing ever broke or if it did most of the time I could fix it or buy a replacement at reasonable cost. I had a 20 year old Kato locomotive stop working, they still had the parts and only charged me shipping and did the repair for free. Now that’s good experience and standing behind what you build and sell.
I find it hard to believe that Lionel is still in business. I had decent experience with Lion Chief and Flyer Chief engines that were reliable and reasonably priced. All of a sudden the only thing Lionel makes is extremely overpriced Legacy stuff that you get maybe a a year out of before they burn out a chip that cannot be replaced and Lionel refuses to make replacement parts and has been able to block third parties from offering solutions. My Lionel Facebook groups universally say that users will never buy any new Lionel engines. The two outfits that I use to service my equipment both complain that Lionel uses unique new parts on each engine that they do not make replacement parts for. My post war stuff runs great and I get get replacement parts. I too will be selling off any Legacy engines since even the few engines I have that still run will probably soon break and have to be scrapped. Mennard's seems to be taking up some of the slack so t least the hobby won't die if Lionel declares bankruptcy and folds. Actually maybe that would give a real company the opportunity to buy it up and restore it to decency.
Well put, the proprietary parts game is definitely a rip off for consumers. Even legacy is not reverse compatible to when they started designing locomotives with it. You wound think they would be more supportive with providing a solution for someone that bought a $300-$1500 locomotive from them in 2009 for example, but you can barely find parts left over somewhere for those, electronics or otherwise. In other scales with DCC and Sound, you buy another chip at a reasonable price, and you’re back up and running.
WOW! I have not been impressed with Lionel over the last ten years. I noticed the new command base station coming in 2024 uses some of the worst connectors for LCS and the mini USB is garbage. How do the engineers not know this? Very sad state of affairs. MTH was not perfect and I wish DCS was open source but currently that is how I control my O scale trains.
Thank for the comment, I learned the hard way for sure. Yes, I have very few issues out of MTH, new and older. 👍
I never had Lionel trains my mom had a bad experience when she went to work there back in the 1950s.Because of that she swore when she had kids they’d never get Lionel. Even back then Lionel had quality and management issues. My first train set was an American Flyer but they were out of business so I couldn’t expand it. That was when I became a Marklin fan. Here I am 56 years later and still going Marklin. I’m glad you have been telling us about this. As bad as the O gauge is, the HO is alot worse!
Thank you for sharing your story, makes sense for sure. I started collecting and running Marklin HO a few years ago. They make some very smoothing running, reliable, cool stuff. When I have had an issue, having bought some preowned, the parts are available and they are easy to repair, what a great business model they have at Marklin. 👍
Lionel no longer comes to the York TCA train show. It's been a while since they were there.
Yeah, I went the last two years and they weren’t there either time.
Been there done that, sold my 2004 mustang and 2004 T bird for more trains! Big mistake? Trains are getting too expensive and very complicated electronically especially engines. Love the post war engines that I can fix and run!
Yeah, I regret it also. Should have kept the car or cars and bought less trains. Postwar are great for sure, I’ve scaled back on a lot of my collection, no post war though, I have kept all that I have and added some. 👍🙂
Glad you have made this video. Everyone needs to know what they are doing!
Thank you
i have been done with lionel.i rather buy Williams.i have bought a few Williams engines and that company has stepped up there game on a quality built and great pulling engines.
Agreed!
Lionel is owned by guggenheim partners, private equity firms demand 20% returns. The trains are built in china by cheap, unskilled labor, it is assembly line c 1900.
To make those profits they charge huge amounts for the trains and they have very few employees, it is a shell company.
They announced the base 3 4 yrs ago, stopped producing the cab 2..and it didnt show up until late last year.
Problem is they have little competition. MTH is a shell, Atlas and Third rail are small.
When you have complex tech with sloppy quality control this is what happens. When you make it in contract factories in china based on lowest cost this us what hapens.
Thank you for the info, definitely makes sense, poor business model for such expensive products. Sounds like they are taking advantage of their loyal customers and living on a past reputation, history, and legacy in the model train community.
If I ran that company, I would stick with postwar and prewar reproduction using the same mechanics but also offering newer body styles and cars. It turns out that the high-tech, outsourced manufacturing, and delicate detailing has created more problems.
Agreed 👍
I have only purchased two of the newer Lionel Items and had problems with both of them. Never again. I have acquired many pre and postwar items that were not working, however I knew they were not working, so fixed them myself. I enjoy restoring old trains. If I buy a new train, it better be working! I don't even look at the new Lionel catalogs, It's all crap!
Making the older ones work is fun and part of the hobby for sure, I total relate to that! Agreed though, if brand new in box and I just paid good money for it, the product needs to represent that. Thank you for your comment! 👍
Thanks for the update. I’m sticking with postwar 45-1960 only. We all know that stuff works. 👍
I like postwar also! Not a bad choice for sure.
I'm so sad to see this go... I hope you keep the layout. I really look up to you and your Layout.
Hi, it’s not all going, as a matter of fact I’m working on the layout tonight! I love this hobby and have so many other ways to buy stuff. I also no longer want to keep stuff I don’t run, I’d rather other people enjoy it than let it sit in boxes unused. Thank you👍🙂
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies are you selling it? Had to cut the video off because I had to get ready for bed
Nope, I’m keeping a lot of it, and working on my layout right now for my next video. Thank you
How sad to hear this. Glad I found this video prior to buying Lionel trains.
I was definitely sad as well, having just started in O in 2017 and excited about the heritage and history of Lionel. Fortunately there is a massive selection of preowned out there and other brands that have kept my interest in O.
I feel your pain with Lionel I orderd replacement parts for a I12 caboose and they sent me used parts that were obviously taken off and assembled caboose , cut wiring on switches and power boards and detail pieces that had scratched paint.
Sorry to hear that, frustrating for sure.
Sorry to hear, Mike. Have to imagine you're one of their top customers. Since you didn't mention it, I also wonder how helpful your local dealers were in advocating for you Note, I've been collection LGB since 1984 - never had one issue in hundreds of pieces (granted most is German though the newer asian mfg items have been good as well. Love to see some Cobra content from you! Why backdraft vs ERA vs Unique etc.
Thank you, I’m still researching the Cobra stuff, like everything else that market has inflated prices right now as well. LGB and Marklin, both appear to have Berger initial quality construction and quality control. I’m not sure on LGB as far as ease of repair if they do have an issue, but Marklin is simple with readily available parts. Lionel might take a look at what both those companies keys to success are and replicate.
Hey Michael, Thanks for sharing this story. I just found your channel and subscribed. I really appreciate the info. your train room looks great! 👍
Thank you for your compliment and thank you for subscribing! 👍
Your welcome!
🙂
I am in my 20s and have loved this hobby all my life, the price of the new o scale is a dream killer, just a few of your locos could buy a running 7.5 gauge live steam locomotive. It kills me to hear how there treating you because in my perspective your considered a whale in the industry, And if they treat you that way what does that mean for the rest of use. I see many people in the comment sections question, if our hobby is going to fall apart. I don’t believe that’s the case even though main stream companies are completely dropping the ball with Service and quality. We are living at a very incredible time ware 3-D printing a decent model is more realistic than ever. You can easily find great examples By just looking up g scale 3d printed loco’s on RUclips. It’s time we take back our hobby and support businesses and people who value our hobby.
Well said! I agree 100%, I’m all in on the hobby. I love it, so I’ll never let a company change that. There is a great selection of preowned stuff on the market and will be for a long time. 3D printers bring an entirely new “what’s possible” to the hobby! Agreed, great times ahead! Thank you
G gauge is cheaper, ESPECIALLY if you buy Piko
The only thing that caused Lionel to temporarily change was MTH when MTH released the Scale Dash8 in 1992 or 93. Now Lionel is back again to having no competition. Couple that with collectors who are addicts and really do not care about accuracy. For example: The latest 2024 release of the SD50. It has a GP35 incorrect cab. As long as the addicts keep buying Lionel's junk....they Will Not change.
You’re spot on, terrible colors, so many what if’s, occasionally they produce something accurate and cool but they take too many short cuts, and you’re right, I see it all day long on Facebook train groups, people continue to buy stuff that never existed or colors are way off. Ho and N is dominant around my area now, not a lot of 3 rail or O scale. I understand why. 😉
All train manufacturers have issues. You spent more money than you intended (it happens), sell off what you don't want and buy that new car. No reason to bash a decent company. I have been buying Lionel for the past 3 years and have had no issues. I sent back two things-BN box car (damaged during shipping) and a locomotive that had a gear issue after running it constantly for months (it was still under warranty and Lionel repaired it with no questions asked).
Sounds like you’ve been lucky, not the general consensus though. Also, I buy a lot of trains in O from other manufacturers and have had zero issues with new in box, current model purchases. Also several other scales, MTH, BLI, Kato, Atlas, Athearn…. Definitely no physical defects, scratches, or paint issues ever. Just Lionel, for being a great manufacturer, they need to get their act together. There is video after video on RUclips of people having issues. I’d like to love Lionel, once was a huge advocate, just can’t accept it any more. Thanks for your comment and I wish you continued luck with them.
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I wish all the best of luck to you, too. It's a great hobby (although expensive :) ). Keep us posted on your progress and thoughts regardless if anyone disagrees. The best course to progress is discussion.
Absolutely! Thank you so much, I will for sure.
What I hate about Lionel now is all they do is make remakes ....like new Big Boys every year.....they want to make over priced models of things they have already made and over charge for them because smoke comes out more holes ...... that is why I stopped buying and selling Lionel trains........people want more variety and reliability and NOT more smoke holes and crew talk BS......
I agree for sure.
Man I'm sorry you've had so many issues. The only reason I like modern Lionel is whistle steam. I really prefer TMCC and early Legacy cause they're much more reliable. I had to send a Legacy mikado back twice and had damage issues when it was returned. After sending it back a second time I've had no more issues (knock on wood). I just got the VISION Class A in and have had no issues yet (again, knock on wood). They're are plenty of older engines that I can fill my collection in with and won't be doing much if any pre-ordering for a while. Hopefully they can get things worked out!
Box thanks, yes, once worked on here in the US they tend to work, I’ve never had to send one back a second, my issue is that I had to send it back in the first place far too often. 😉. The two that I haven’t had an issue out of is my Visionline 2-10-10-2 and Niagara. I think the 2-10-10-2 was made in Korea, where was your class A made? Good to know because I really wanted the class A , mine is 1211 and is in waiting for me to pick it up.
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies Yeah I totally get that you shouldn't have to send something you spent a ton of money on for repairs when it hasn't made it around a loop of track! I'm not 100% sure where the Class A was made but I can check. I think it's safe to get if you're still thinking about picking yours up.
Thank you, I’ve watched a few of them run on RUclips now and just met a new friend I’ve been talking to that watches my channel, Jay Hines, he bought the fantasy paint scheme and it looks great on his channel! I just checked it out.
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies Awesome! If you do end up getting one, I hope it runs well for you! I got 1218 and it's gorgeous. I'll be putting up a video of it soon.
I agree with you. I stick to MTH and don’t regret it😊
Great choice for sure! Thank you
MTH is worse!
Thank you
Lionel should be embarrassed
You pay good money and things are awful
Obviously they don't care
It's a shame.
You have a premium collection
Just my two cents
I had an issue with my new atlas locomotive
The customer service was off the charts.
Prompt and helpful
Little by little I stay away from Lionel
Thank you for the comment! I appreciate it, I bought some Atlas F3’s, used, the couplers broke in shipping. I called Atlas the same day I opened them, someone knowledgeable actually talked to me, knew exactly what I needed, had it in stock and it arrived at my door four days later, was running within a week. Always good experiences with them with my N and HO stuff as well. 👍
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies my point exactly
That comment about it's only toys, should have got that guy fired immediately
I had an issue with FasTrack.
The Lionel rep said they know about the issue.
I said so you put the product out anyway
He turned and walked away.
That is not how to operate
I hate it when you have to bash products,but truth needs to be told
Lionel couplers are a disaster
It is a pleasure talking to you and watching your videos and world class collection
Thank you William, believe me, it takes A LOT for me to post a video like that, and I’ve had a huge response already of fellow railroaders that have experienced the same issues from quality control, bad parts availability, and lack of customer service. Lionel is proud of their prices and heritage, so proud their customers no longer matter, they ignore us and think they will out run the customers stop that stop buying their products with new ones, but that well will soon dry up as well, then they will be in big trouble. I hope they can get it turned around.
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I seriously doubt it.the new catalog is out Thursday and everything will go up but quality.corporate America doesn't care about you or I.the thing that amazes me is how they can't produce models in america.there are tons of talented railroaders that would gladly work for lionel.am I crazy to think this.your video should be a wake up call.thanks to DAKMAN I am an atlas addict.their biggest flaw is the fine details are fragile.so I can't be my clumsy self.enough with Lionel.
I would love to see you feature more of your 3rd rail engines
Well said, and agree. I’m going to do more videos for sure! Thank you for your comments and insights as well. We all stand to benefit if we pull together and let manufacturers know what we expect and that we aren’t willing to settle for less anymore, touch mountain to climb, but for those of us that love this hobby, it needs to be done.
I bought a sound box car from train world Lionel It didn't work broken right out of the box. The backside of wheels would not turn what a living nightmare. All these documents they wanted you to fill out. Then I had to pay for return shipping. They told me restocking fee for something that I got broken. I'm done with them. I am like you have got to be kidding me. You sent me something broken I sent you. Pictures explained everything q on the phone. Well, it's gotta go through our authorization department. It's gotta beit proved by the manager. You have to pay the return stipping. I should have went through PayPal.
Absolutely a hassle and not consumer friendly. Everything is our fault…and even through it’s really theirs we have to jump through hopes to get them to honor fixing their mistake, poor quality control, or defective product. Like we are the ones that messed it up or did something wrong. Terrible! Sorry to hear you had a similar experience.
Wow you just saved me a lot of grief. I was planning on buying a Lionel train dor Christmas.
Ohh man, sorry to hear that. Christmas trains are a lot of fun. Understandable though. New Polar Express set we got had an issue right out of the box, if I hadn’t figured out what was wrong we couldn’t have run it, it came in on Christmas Eve for a run that night.
I’ve been in the hobby for many years and I’m a grandpa. There’s is not one item that I have ever purchased where I’ve spent $2,000 and be surprised if it works. It’s almost common, almost accepted, to have to either return it, which is a hassle or repair it, or have it repaired right out of the box. So I’m with you Mr. Moto, Grrrrrr just sayin. 01/14/23
Thank you for your comment, agreed, it’s like a inside joke at Lionel I bet. They probably think, “ we keep producing expensive junk….and they just keep on buying it, why change it?”
Wow, I wonder what's going on there ? I had received a Lionel FEF-3 Union Pacific 844 as a Christmas gift and it ran Beautiful no issues whatsoever and with less than 3 running hours on it ,the smoke unit went on it and the engine started running erratically! Slowing down on its own and with the cab light blinking I sent it back to Lionel as it was under warranty . They repaired it and sent it back but with grease all over the shell of the engine , a screw on the bottom of the box and scratches on my new Engine and still not smoking ! Sent it back again after speaking with the Manager there and couldn't believe the tech repairing it sent back the Engine that way? They repaired it again under warranty and repainted it and stated in writing that even new engines have scratches on them ? This wasn't a $300 ready ro run set we are talking about this is a $1850 Engine my wife purchased as a gift , wow to say that shows me where the mind set of the employees are at. How about you only have a Job because the generations before me put Lionel on the map by purchasing these trains for their children and themselves
Wow! So sorry to hear about your experience Joseph, sounds all too familiar. My Northern is so bad, I actually thought they sent me back someone else’s who had ran theirs for years, even though it was just released. No offer to repaint or even replace the missing and broken parts. No follow up after I filed another warranty request and even called in. It is so disappointing for sure. Lionel just goes on like nothing is happening. Both of my friends new Amtrak locomotives are defective, one stopped running all together during its third run and the other ones rear truck and motor is locked up, both being sent back to Lionel. Then another friend received a box car without either of the trucks attached and no screws to attach them. It is so rampant and widespread at this point, doesn’t matter if it’s rolling stock, lionechief, or expensive legacy steamers. They all have problems. 👎
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbiesI will suggest Pre-war, Post-war, and earlier Modern-era 1970-2012 Lionel but not 2013-2023 and onwards Lioncheif-Legacy era Lionel !
Thanks Steven, I agree, that’s where I started in O in 2017, buying older modern stuff because the sticker shock of new, then decided to preorder the latest stuff since I had relatively good luck with the older Modern so thought the new stuff would be the same. You are correct sir, not the same reliability or initial quality based on my experiences as well.
The whole "it's just a toy" conversation shocked me. This person who made that statement is in the wrong business. I would never tell a customer a statement such as that even if was a toy. Hopefully, they will turn the ship around and begin to operate with better customer satisfaction through quality product.
I hope they can get it turned around for sure. 👍
Gee how unlucky. So far I just haven’t had any real issues - and I import retail into the UK (!) I haven’t been ordering the same quantity as you, but it’s enough to be confident with their quality. I’m sorry you’ve had such a tough time.
Thank you, I appreciate it, I have decent luck with older Lionel stuff so I’ve held onto a lot of that so can still have plenty of fun. 🚂🙂
Well.......who do we replace Lionel with if they no longer make decent trains??? Their prices have become outrageous;
like everything else......and, of course, they are only toys....
Are they still making everything in China? not happy with high priced trains being made by slave labor; and; no quality
control to boot!!!!
Yes, still making stuff in China, and our dollars fund a country that is not a fan or supporter of us. I won’t get political, but there is a huge used and preowned market with about anything you can imagine. Lionel is constantly just remaking the same stuff over and over with slightly different electronics or paint schemes. Just depends on what you like or if you need the latest and greatest.
Great video! I went through the same attitude over 20 years ago with Lionel when my Century Club Berkshire had a sound issue. They don't care about the customer, they know there is always another sucker that will buy their crap. Good for them. I haven't bought pretty any new Lionel since then. I did buy the first run of the Milwaukee Road 261 engine though, that was a home run. No purchases since then, what is that? 10 years now. More money for overpriced pinball machines instead from manufacturers that care about the customer even less than Lionel.
Thank you! The Milwaukee Road 261 is a cool locomotive! 👍
That’s what happens when you build all these trains in china. I had a similar situation with my UP E9 A-A set. The powered unit melted the radio board and it got so hot it melted the smoke unit as well. Took it to my local shop i deal with and they quickly diagnosed the problem and called lionel for the parts. It was almost a year and lionel still hadn’t sent the parts so i took them back home and they’ve been sitting broken in the box ever since. That was about 3 years ago. I’ve honestly thought about selling off the majority of my collection as well, lots of high end stuff just sitting in their respective boxes.
Man, that is so sad to hear and tough to take. Three years to get something fixed it crazy! I’ll say this, unfortunately there is A LOT of stuff made in China in my household, there isn’t other options because I consciously try to avoid buying products made in China. Luckily the majority of them never have an issue and have a long lifespan, Lionel tends to be the one manufacturer that consistently cannot get their products right. I would like an American Made model railroading product for sure, at the prices now you would think that would be possible. Something’s got to give for sure! Thank you for your comment! 👍
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies, i hear you there. Lionel is pricing so many people right out of the hobby. I only ordered the 2 pack of UP excursion cars because i wanted to add to my excursion train. After these cars are added then the train will be an even 30 scale passenger cars long. Extremely heavy train but a gorgeous one to see in action. Other than that i haven’t bought anything train related in a long time.
That sounds like an awesome train! I only have the 7 from the 2016 or 2017 catalog. I would like the Union Pacific Experience car though and they didn’t release that again. It would be nice if someone would make universal electronics like in other scales so we are not at the mercy of Lionel and MTH for that matter. With N and Ho there are choices and new electronics to upgrade or change are very affordable and available. It’s like “hey Lionel, you are producing stuff right now with boards, send you one of those to fix your locomotive instead of building more with potential problems when they already cannot meet existing purchases demands”. Bad business model. 🤦🏼♂️
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies, that experience the Union Pacific car is getting hard to find. I happened to get mine at my local shop when it came out. Although it’s not 100% accurate because it doesn’t have people walking out of the car with pink slips in their hands. I worked for UP as a carman for almost 9 years, never again. Easily one of the worst companies to work for.
Oh man! Sorry to hear that! I know those Lionel Cars were all the way down to $169 on eBay right after they came out and some of the on line train stores had them reduced also, that probably explains it. Thanks!
I'm done with Lionel. Switching to H O. The people who own Lionel are not train people and do not care about the hobbyist. Now to get rid of a massive collection.
I’ve thought about switching back myself. That’s where I started as kid and still buy some from time to time. Not a bad thing for sure. 👍
A lot of people are switching to HO or Back to it. O gauge is becoming to stressful which shouldn't be. The infuencers are running out of bullshit to feed to the masses. Almost 4 years in and still no command control from both MTH and Lionel. At least MTH PS3 engines can run on DCC. Lionel has Bluetooth but anything pre 2021/2022 the prime mover doesn't rev up to match the speed and stays on idle while in motion. Plus Built to order is really turning people off, HO does it too but there are way more options where in O gauge there are only 3-4.
A hobby shouldn't be this stressful at all but it's getting to a point where it's getting out of control, Used engines are becoming overpriced and if you want a DCS TIU with remote or a Cab 2 Lionel Legacy command base, You have to pay triple the amount.
I have had only one Lionel locomotive in the past... absolutely hated it. Ran it in Bluetooth and couldn't go 20 feet from it before it would stop and Start beeping. Just got one of new MTH mikados, absolutely beautiful and works amazing!
Sorry to hear about the Lionel experience. The MTH mikados are really nice, I’m glad to hear you like it, I’m a big MTH fan also! Thank you for the comment. 👍
Lionel did the same thing to me with my Legacy Maine Central gp7s . Missing parts, i called them at least a half dozen times, " we dont stock that part" " we will open a new one and send you the parts" " we will send the parts right out". I am also done with Lionel. I never saw one part from them.
That’s so crazy isn’t, they made them recently and don’t have any extra parts, then they should include extras in the box that are commonly missing or broken, like a lot of other companies do that manufacture in China. If I buy something brand new I expect it to be complete and flawless for the most part. Especially at the prices, and when it’s not they cannot even make it right. They should have bought yours back. Sorry to hear you went through the same stuff. It apparently happens a lot and many people just look past it and continue to buy.
And this is why I stick to Traditional Lionel or conventional toy/model trains in general mainly Prewar, Postwar, and MPC. I do like some of the early TMCC stuff as they have their own set of charm. But the current stuff…never really was my thing..plus it’s way too much for me personally.
Sorry that you had to go through all that trouble with Lionel as of recently.
Thank you! I like the stuff you like also, I came over from N and HO scale to O about 5 years ago. Getting prototypical stuff as well as the older stuff we’re equally as important, since that’s what I ran in my other scales. I definitely like the variety and nostalgia of the prewar, and Mpc is what was out when I was growing up in the 70’s and 80’s. 👍. Thank you for the comment and checking out my video!
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies You’re welcome!
🙂👍
I bought all my Lionel, used, and I never had a problem with anything at all , As well as my American flyers All so Awesome!! And I still have my childhood trains that run like new , I wouldn't give any of them up for nothing!!, A lot of good memories in them Trains
Very cool, the ones we create memories with are the best ones! 👍
Same here, I bought a lionel set in 2005 and the transformer quit working after just 2 weeks. I began buying and restoring American Flyer post war and have not had a single problem since then.....
👍
It seems that Lionel is in the same boat as what used to be another great American company Harley-Davidson. Same complaints ridiculously high prices poor quality control poor customer service indifferent attitude toward their customers poor warranty service. Two once great American companies living on past Glory figuring that their customers would buy anything they could produce at any price they felt like charging. In the world of toy trains I have no use for the modern Chinese made poor quality expensive Lionel just as I have no need for a poor quality ridiculously expensive motorcycle that is supposed to be the top-of-the-line and is more of a disappointment than anything else. Thank God I cannot afford either one.
Sad in both cases for sure, I used to ride Harleys as well. Thank you for the comment.
Good to see some one wise up !
Thank you!
I've been hearing a lot about quality control issues with a few manufacturers. Might be time for the Boss to step in.
Agreed! 👍
Still a very relevent video given the recent L1 Mikados and the Dreyfuss hudson with the oddest paint ever.
Getting back to that cobra😉
Do the "right " thing and put that 427 in there, preferrably with dual quads as it should be.
Too many guys dropping a new coyote 5.0 in there, a great motor, but theres no " history" there.
On a side note, ironically i picked up a 04 terminator cobra last summer with 15k on it.
A good motivation to stop new purchases from Lionel as well.
I was surprised whem Mike Reagan left Lionel several years ago. Now we know why.
Thank you, I appreciate your comment. Sounds like you have a great Cobra! Yes, a 427 is a must have, I agree for sure! 👍
I too had a dead on arrival Lionel train set with broken small parts. QC is definitely a problem which will discourage hobbyists.
Agreed for sure, several people don’t really share their negative experiences or take it as “it is what it is” and keep buying more. I noticed a really bad trend, followed up with a poor experience from an executive level when giving them to chance to apologize and make it right, which they didn’t and wasted my time. Hopefully your experience with getting it resolved was better. Even the most basic thing, I explained to the lady and the executive both that our Polar express was missing the whistle and had a bad wiring harness, and they sent me a bell and said no harness was available. I fixed it myself and bought a whistle from local hobby shop.
I bought a Lionel Rail Link SD45 #331 the truck was so terrible. The trucks couldn’t navigate around turns and got stuck somehow & the plow was to low and hit the track also. Luckily the guy who I got it from gave me a full refund and I bought a SD33ECO (SD40-2) which should be here in a few days. I hope the ECO works fine.
Sorry to hear that! I hope you have better luck with it.
I have that exact engine and mines been fine
That’s good to hear for sure. 👍
I just brought two SD40-2 BN One non powered and powered. I loved it but basically they were junk. The coupling on the powered units were sagging down to a point that they can’t couple the non powered engine. The non powered unit couplers keeps opening up we’re in motion pulling only a few cars. I had to secure the couplers with zip ties to prevent them from opening up. The sagging couplers on the powered unit are corrected by using a rubber band and secured it by attaching it to the railings so they are not sagging. For almost 900 dollars for the 2 units I should not have to go through this. I called the hobby shop and they told me to call Lionel directly. I figured they should give another set but they probably have the same problem too. I collected MTHs with no problems. This was my first new order from Lionel. Bummer.
Man, that is a bummer for sure, I’m sorry to hear that. I thought I had really bad luck, I’m not a complainer for sure, but no I am truly hearing about so many other people having my same experience. It is very disappointing, Lionel’s warranty department must be overloaded which is why they lost one of my locomotives and sent me someone else’s completely differently model than what I sent back. I hope you have better luck than me with getting the issues resolved, you shouldn’t have to use rubber bands or accept poor quality for your hard earned money. Thanks for the comment and for checking out my video.
Thank you for the video, I was just about to order a Legacy Big Boy. He is only 2 but I was going to store it away for him.
You’re welcome! That’s a cool locomotive, just make sure to test run it before you store it away to make sure it’s a good one while under warranty. I’d run it for at least 30 minutes and let it sit stopped idle for a while. I’ve seen a lot of posts where the locomotives work initially and issues happen within the first few initial runs.
I agree. I switched my interests to S American Flyer and low end vintage O. The high end Lionel is just too, too far out of reach for families. Yes, the older vintage is plagued with issues to run....but its affordable and the memories come free.
Absolutely!
Love Lionel, but lots of issues over the past two decades. And having to ship Visionline is an inconvenience.
Selling your used toy trains is now taxable, even if you’re selling at a loss. Anyone have any advice? One person told me to become a business for a year and take a business loss and then go out of business.
They do want to tax us on everything, including stuff we bought with many that was already taxed and we paid sales tax on, then take a loss on if we decided to sell it. Not sure the best way to go about it. It’s pretty new to me once I decided to downsize my collection. A lot goes to friends. 🙂
MTH has their problems too .I know , I have five dead soldiers from them.
I I haven’t had that yet, know on wood. 👍. I will say this, takeaway the cosmetic stuff from my 6 2022 preorders that I picked up this month, they are all still running. 😀. That’s a start!
Ill have to agree with you unfortunately, i love the detail and performance of the modern stuff when it works, but its just that, WHEN it works. Although im amongst the younger group in model railroading (22y/o) ill no longer buy anything made overseas, from anyone. If im paying a few hundred bucks for a locomotive i want to be confident that itll last long enough to pass down to my future kids and not just be a shelf queen. I now only buy pre and postwar o gauge and prewar standard gauge, and ot any repro stuff either, if you want something of quality nowadays you gotta go back and buy stuff that was made by people who actuality cared about what theyre making and the value of your dollar, they just take yoir money and give you junk now
Thank you for your comment. I have definitely weighed sticking with just my postwar Lionel stuff several times for three rail. You can get some more recent American made Lionel that is very reliable. When they moved production back from Mexico briefly after the MPC era, most everything I have from that time has no issues. It also had “inspected by” initials on the wrapping of the locomotives before put into the box at the factory. I agree, I’d rather not buy anything made over seas with the least expensive possible parts assembled by the lowest bidder. I love when I see kids, 20’s, and 30’s age group in trains. Awesome that you also appreciate the early stuff! 🙂👍🚂
My collection is pre-war tinplate, post war (1948-54) and MTH standard gauge, which I inherited from a good friend/collector who passed away recently. As an "old school guy" I don't want to get involved with all this hi-tech stuff and fussy detail which is delicate and breakable....plus the unit cost!! I have a special connection with the items I grew up with!
We are on the same page, except for what we grew up with. I grew up with HO, which looked more like the real trains than O did until recently. I was excited to see Lionel, MTH, Kline and others start to make more realistic O scale, then finally switched over to it. I have some postwar also, because that’s what my Grandpa used to run for me. I’ve always been into building models and making them look as real as possible as well, we tend to migrate to the stuff we liked as a kid for sure.
@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I too, grew up with HO. My late dad built a fine HO Layout. We both worked on it...he scratched built rolling stock, as well as buildings. Many of the early HO cars were in kit form. I remember Varney as selling many of these. We also had two fine brass locomotives. I have always loved Lionel...today...most of my collection is the classic post war output, 1948-54. Your fabulous collection simply amazes me!!!
Very cool Larry! I’ve yet to get a HO brass locomotive, on my list! I really liked building the HO rolling stock kits as well. Thank you for your comment on my collection! 👍
This is why i only collect prewar lionel, built well and any issues can be fixed yourself.
Not as much to go wrong with them sure. I used to have some prewar in my collection. Always ran reliably. One of my first videos of one of my Christmas layouts has a couple of them running on there I think.
To say nothng about their paint jobs and detail work. Look no further than the latest Dreyfuss Hudson. Ghost gray/white color, wrong striping, tender stripes on cars did not line up with tender, black stanchions, black trucks and to cap it off, the cylinder covers are painted a more correct dark grey. No excuse for this as all they had to do was copy their own Smithsonian set. All the cars and engine are painted incorrectly.
I agree 100%, I sold my TMCC with Odyssey version when I heard they were going to make them with Legacy, then all these bad experiences happened with my preorders that came in and I made this video. Never ordered a new one and I see dealers are having a lot of trouble selling them and many people I know that did order them put them up for sale. Getting the paint right is so basic in my option, paints going to go on, might as well take the time to make sure it’s the correct color…..lol. Thank you for your comment!