How A Press Release Destroyed K-Line Trains
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2023
- How did K-Line rise from obscurity to a major power in the world of toy trains, and how did K-Line fall so quickly and so dramatically into oblivion? Here’s the story:
By the dawn of 2005, K-Line’s future looked bright indeed. Their product line spanned the gamut from scale models of classic steam and contemporary SD70 diesels, to innovative accessories like the Super Streets line, to budget products like the under $50 Husky line of Geeps and the well-built but budget-priced Train 19 line of rolling stock aimed at the starter market.
But it would soon come crashing down.
“Under the terms of the settlement, K-Line and the other defendants, Maury Klein and Robert Grubba, admitted that they paid Lionel’s chief engineer to develop advanced versions of Lionel’s operating systems and features that were used in a number of K-Line’s engines and electrical transformers. They further admitted that these products actually contain Lionel’s technology and are currently for sale in the marketplace.
“In late July, Lionel filed a complaint…against K-Line, its owner Maury Klein and Robert Grubba, a former Lionel employee now working for K-Line. The…train maker claimed that the defendants had enlisted Marty Pierson, then Lionel’s employee and chief engineer, to work surreptitiously with K-Line, and incorporate Lionel’s current sound, speed control and electrical transformers into some of the K-Line products.”
The statement pulled no punches in assigning blame squarely on the shoulders of K-Line and its owner. They had cheated and had been caught.
K-Line’s public statement announcing the settlement told a different story altogether. They wrote in part, “While K-LINE hired as an outside consultant a Lionel engineer…he was not hired to develop advances on Lionel technology, but to create superior alternatives. For example, K-LINE's Cruise Control is not related in any way to Lionel's Odyssey System.
The sound and speed control products were developed by Marty Pierson in collaboration with K-LINE engineers. However, certain agreements he signed as a Lionel employee gave Lionel a claim of ownership of this work.”
K-Line flatly denied all guilt in the matter and argued that Lionel was winning the case by a technicality only. This was a monumental mistake.
**As an Amazon Associate and a member of the eBay Partner Network, I may receive commissions on qualifying sales generated from the links on this channel
Handy Links:
Complete Service Manual for Lionel Trains: amzn.to/3Lfd0zn
Williams by Bachmann E-Z Street System: amzn.to/3r65f84
O'Brien's Collecting Toy Trains: Identification And Value Guide: amzn.to/489N5mj
Toy Train Tips And Tricks is a channel devoted to the operation, repair, history, and collecting of classic 3-rail O and O27 gauge trains made by Lionel, Marx, K-Line, Menards, and other manufacturers.
Keep the trains running!
Music and Visual Effects Courtesy of Pixabay.com
Facebook: / ttttlocomaniac
Twitter: / ttttmike
Instagram: / mrmoore2001
#Promotion #Lioneltrains #Trainset #Trainrepair #Traincollecting #Ogauge #Oscale
Lionel Santa Fe Super Chief Set walmrt.us/3GvsA75 [Affiliate Link]
20+ years ago, Bob Grubba was a guest at a train club dinner I was at with my dad. On his way out the door, he gifted me his raffle ticket. At the end of the evening, they raffled off door prizes and the ticket he handed me won a Lionel ACL GP7 with TMCC. Nice video.
Cool story!
The lack of options and affordability are killing the hobby. Every year there are fewer hobby or train stores out there. It has gotten to the point where buying new has become to expensive and something major retailers do not want to touch.
Blame Lionel they buy out every cheap company
All these companies were suing each other while sales were falling off a cliff.
Yeah, it was sad. As I said in a earlier comment the internicine warfare between manufacturers did the hobby and absolutely everyne else no good. It must be a side effect of this lawsuit-crazed society we live in now, in the old days most likely they'd have settled the issue behind closed doors like gentlemen.
K-line had some very nice products, their diecast hoppers were among the best made
They were very nice indeed!
Oh yes. I have a few, and I took the K-Line trucks off and mounted early postwar Lionel 'Flying shoe' trucks underneath, and they easily pass for 'what could have been' had Lionel produced the prewar scale hopper after the war.
I love their scale die cast freight cars
Now Robert "Bob" Grubba runs Broadway Limited doing HO and N Scale trains. Funny how people move around the model train industry.
It's crazy that Lionel was being sued by another company at the same time for the same thing
It really is crazy (and sad) what went down in the toy train market in the mid 2000’s. Would make a good documentary
Been trying to get Company Man here on RUclips to cover this
@@justinyoung109 I wish Maury Kline would write a book.
I'd read that@@1978garfield
@@justinyoung109 If I am ever near Chapel Hill I am going by the UPS store and asking if Mr. Kline is in.
I want him to sign my K Line books.
Excellent video! Never knew the story but not surprised. Lionel is the tuff dude on the block. Hopefully, Menards will continue to make entry level trains successfully.
Thanks for watching!
A VERY interesting history of K-Line! Yes, it's a shame they're not around anymore but I guess in a way it proves the veracity of the statement "Sometimes the seeds of failure can be found in the fruits of success." It strikes me K-Line got just a little too ambitious to the point their reach exceeded their grasp. In my opinion the best thing to do is when you find a comfortable niche market is just stay there. What a loss to the hobby.
It's also my opinion that the internecine warfare between manufacturers does the hobby absolutely no good either. Can't they settle things behind closed doors like gentlemen and not go running to the courts at the drop of a hat?
Good analysis.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Thanks! I appreciate that!
Greed drives most business management. So if another competitor makes even a penny per device, the copyright/patent owners will go after them for every cent they can, and will try to put them out of business. Bad, but true.
I was building another layout in 2005 and started looking for 027 profile 42” switches. The powered Lionel versions commonly had problems so through Ebay I bought some K-Line versions and really liked them. I bought more, probably have close to 20 of them.
As you can see in my video, the K-Line O42 turnouts are my standard mainline switch. Thanks for watching!
Even though I’ve always viewed K Line as a dollar store version of Lionel, it’s still a shame what happened to them. Thanks for the history of K Line Mike.
Thanks for watching!
Same thoughts here. I have a pair of K-Line Pacific Electric blimps - definitely nice detail, but they run so much worse than comparable Lionel products. I always thought they were more a budget line as well.
Thanks for the fascinating and well-produced upload. I'm almost 80. Back in the day I had some Lionel 027 items. We were very poor but for Christmas I was given new things like the beautiful rotating beacon light and a gorgeous large grain car. Mar. 22, 2024. St. Joseph, MO, USA.
Thanks for sharing!!
Always was a fan of the HO scale. Not too big, not to small. I miss my trains 😢
My dad and I were big fans of K Line cars, track, and accessories, usually just as good as the Lionel stuff but a significantly lower price. It's a shame that they imploded so hard, although I still find new old stock of theirs at hobby shops and online.
Bargains are out there.
I remember the K line membership.. offering discounts on rolling stock, locomotives, and accessories
My first "high end" locomotive was a K-Line Western Maryland RS-3 diesel with Cruise Control and TMCC. I didn't realize it was manufactured right during the lawsuit years. These engines were later marketed as K-Line by Lionel. I still have it, but it needs a new board.
To me it was all a way for the beginning of Lionel being the current monopoly they are today in the O gauge and O scale market just like how Lionel bought up the majority of the MTH tooling when ATLAS openly stated they wished they could have bought more of the MTH tooling
Unfortunately we live in a dog eat cat cat eat rat type world 😑
My first O gauge train set was a K-Line Coca-Cola set
Lionel did not buy the majority of MTH tooling. MTH has sold a very limited amount of the tooling it once owned.
@@ryanlantzy atlas got most of mth
@@ShawnCalay-hi6gy Not true. Atlas, got a lot, but not most, and definitely not all.
@@ryanlantzy okay, atlas got the most of the premier locomotive and cars ....as for structures and railking thats all divided elsewhere.....Lionel did get the railking genises and premier RS27...
Towards what became the end, K-Line was really upping the game. Some of their cars were amazing, and superb for conversion to scale 2-rail. In 3 rail track, their large radius switches were more reliable than Lionel. I still seek out K-line scale series cars to convert to 2 rail, and I seek their traditional tubular track and switches for our toy train side.
As you can see in my layout videos, K-Line turnouts are my favorites.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks They are the best traditional tubular rail switches I have encountered. I run from late prewar, through about 1980s era 3 rail trains, ...the K-Line switches never stall or derail.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Did K-Line make a larger turnout switch other than O42 in the O27 profile?🤔
@@mdeange3 I do not believe so.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Thank you for your kind reply.
This make me wonder where Menards is sourcing the O scale products it is offering in its stores. Are these old K-Line product also? Who is manufacturing the equipment for them?
My guess is they are manufactured by Kader, who makes items for dozens of brands. I haven't seen anything in the Menards line so far that is a perfect match for K-Line. Most appears to be former Williams tooling that Kader owns (they own Bachmann).
I got into the hobby in the early 2000’s when a new train store called Cool Trainz opened up across the street from my business. He had tons on MTH & K-Line. So did Barry’s Trains in Elizabethtown a few miles away. Such Kool offerings. The Desert Storm Trains, The Porter steamers, and my favorite was the industrial switcher hauling a load of coal cars marked for Reading Anthracite. I was into old coal mine history and trains. I had to have that set. I got it for my birthday that year. It was also an era when Classic Toy Trains and OGR had fat issues full of content and advertising before the internet killed magazines. Thanks for this video. Glad to know the rest of the story. I bet K-line wishes they could have unsent that memo.
Thanks for the stories. They were good times.
I'm an HO-to-the-end guy but I do a decent lot of American Flyer, a few N scale items and some Lionel cars gifted to me by a late friend and the only K-Line product I have in my collection is actually the K-Line reissued Marx plastic barn and chicken coop that my dad found for me at an Arc's Value Village. I never knew anything about K-Line until the algorithm put this video up for me. Very interesting to learn of the history and the fatal fall of K-Line!
My family had a large HO layout in the 80s, but I've always been 3 rail2ay heart. Thanks for watching!
The video is on point and you nailed it my friend! I deeply enjoyed your video. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great and very informative video. It really fills in the history. I hated to see K-line die. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
K Line Aluminum passenger cars are still my first choice when putting together passenger consists. The workmanship is amazing for these now 20 year old cars, not to mention the numbers of different types of cars offered. And with some minor cleaning, they can roll on forever. Some road names command actual suggested retail prices, but if you look, you can sometimes find individual cars or even partial sets at reasonable prices. Still a lot less than what is being offered now by the current
O manufacturers.
Very nice!
I was unfamiliar with K-Lines aluminum passengers and only familiar with Lionel's. Your post sparked my interest. So, to see a visual, l looked on eBay, and the quality is dramatically superior to Lionel's. Thank you for sharing. What is K-Line's shortest aluminum passenger car length in inches compared to Lionel's aluminum passengers? And did K-Line make an aluminum observation car?
@@mdeange3 Yes, K-Line made observation cars as well. The shortest aluminum cars were 15" which I believe is comparable to the Lionel 2500 series.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks quick note, the observation cars did use the same 15” coach bodies, but in fact were 16” long due to the addition of the observ deck. They also made some 19” cars using the 18” bodies.
@@bobr511 Thanks for the information!
My very first train was a k line c&0 4-6-2 and it was pictured in the video. (3:57)My uncle bought it for me for Christmas when I was a year old and every year after that we would set it up for Christmas time. Now I run it on my big layout and not matter how long the train is it it pull it .
Thanks for sharing!
Thank You! It is good to finally get the whole story on what happened to K-Line. Some of my favorite pieces in the collection are K-Line products. I also really like their tubular super snap track!
I didn't know the details myself before I researched the video. So sad.
Very well done video! K-Line made some of my favorite pieces. I remember their booth at our local Greenberg Train Show. Seeing all of the K-Line Collectors Club items that were in the catalog was such a memorable experience. - Ryan
Thanks for the compliments!
Very well done documentary of these events. I took up 0 gauge trains in 2007, unfortunately just in time for the end of K-Line and Williams. K-Line is still my favorite 0 gauge manufacturer: reliable electronics & mechanics, excellent detail, and high quality for the price. I think they really made Lionel and MTH up their games in the market. Ultimately, I miss K-Line, "New" Marx, and Williams, because they offered great value to hobbyists like me who prefer traditional electronics and reliability. These days I mainly collect and run Prewar trains, with an emphasis on American Flyer and Bing.
Thanks for the video. I grew up,running Lionel,trains but when I got older and started expanding my train layout and found K Line trains. They made a very good product and I added more K line trains to my operation. One of my favorite buys was the Pennsylvania Railroad MP-54 electric commuter train. Unlike Lionel or other companies they got the details right. The end windows were circular just like the real trains. They offered directional lighting both headlight and red rear end marker lights. And the price was great compared to what Lionel was charging for just their non powered passenger cars. I still run them on my layout today as a shuttle train. I also bought their RDC train set again well made at a much lower cost than Lionel’s version of RDC’s. I also bought several of their plastic buildings and operating accessories. Most you would recognize as being made from old Marx molds but again available for great prices. I never knew what caused K line to close but I did notice Lionel picked up many of their old line and marketed it as K Line by Lionel. Thanks for providing the back story on what happened to a once great competitor to Lionel.
A great testimony to great products. Thanks!
Love your channel and wealth of knowledge!
Thank you very much!!
Solid video like always! Hell of a story too, I had no clue it went that deep. It’s a shame K line is gone, makes me wonder what the O gauge market would be like if they were still around…
Although I’m an HO guy, I’ve had a few O gauge trains over the years. I bought a K line hopper as a kid (around 2008-2011) and it’s still kicking around in storage, a really nice car compared to the lionel ones I had at the time. More recently I picked up one of their scale EP5s and it’s a gorgeous model even by today's standards, if it wasn’t for the Rapido release just last year I’d say that it’s the perfect model of the New Haven’s jets.
Thanks for watching. It's always sad to ask "what if?"
Great video! I had no idea what happened to K-Line. I am a recent entrant into the hobby at age 65 and I only run conventional. Lionel makes great trains but soooo expensive. If I ever win the lottery look out Lionel!!
😂💵💵
Great video! I knew some of the story, but not all. Recently I purchased some used KLine pieces, and I am pleased with them. I also purchased several circles of O72 curves in O27 track, and 36” straights. Perfect for throwing down on the floor. With the loss of KLine, Weaver, and Williams (for all practical purposes), it sure seems like options are limited.
Yes, Bachmann appears to have no interest at all in continuing the Williams line. Part of the problem is demographics. The Boomers were always the biggest buyers but now more of them are selling their collections rather than adding to them as they get older. Gen X is now the prime market for trains, but there simply aren't as many of us and fewer of us had the train bug as kids in the MPC era.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks When I was a kid the MPC era was hated by the current collectors. Also many of those collectors did not run the trains, because to them, running them was lowering their value. So us kids in that time line had to have either a old Lionel at a high cost and with the stick in the mud idea to not run them or get a MPC/Lionel train set and run it. Then K-line and Williams came on and it was a more playful hobby again.
Fascinating info on K-line. Now I know why It was alll so cheap back then in 2006. I bought all of K-Line products they had at a Hobby lobby for 80% off. My wife thought I stole it all! She had to help be carry it all in the house, and check my receipt. 🤣
Good deal!
Thank you! Your video answered a lot of cquestions I had
You're welcome!
K Line were awesome sets. Its a pity theyve gone!
Very cool information, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Have several k line club engines. GG1 and Fairbanks Morris. The speeders were cool too. Great video as always
Thank you!
Great video! As a casual o gauger, I had no idea any of this happened.
Thanks for watching!
Awesome video Mike!
Thanks!!!
I enjoyed membership in the K-Line Club! Many unique offerings! Most "Club Cars were very limited but fine O scale models! Hope someday K-Line merchandise will return to retail market!
The KCC items were great bargains!
I really enjoy your videos. The one on Kline was very informative. I knew Mauri in the day and appreciated what he did for the hobby.
I recently came upon a bunch of small plastic parts that I wonder if they are K line or some other manufacturer. I will send you a pix of them and made you can see what they are. Thanks. Richard Sappelli
I'll do what I can.
This topic makes me reflect about the unique K-Line Long Island Rail Road Scoot set.
I’m glad I ran across this video. The history is interesting! I have to check Dads collection he left me. I wonder now if part of his collection includes the items that were in “competition” and sued over. He had bunches of each manufacturer. Hmmm.
Maybe!
K-Line's Highly Detailed Smoking cabooses, with BLT dates from the 1998 era, were overall the Best of the Big 3! Featuring perforated metal catwalks pinned into place, metal handrails, Brass chains, perforated boarding steps and platforms, opening sprung doors, trucks with real springs, followed by the most realistic separately applied and powered rear Marker Lights, complete with correct 2-color lenses. My most prized caboose is K-Line's BNSF 6131171 in orange with yellow trim stripes, green roof, all wonderfully color matched with Lionel BNSF #3505 SW-1 Switcher.)
In the late 1980s I knew someone who worked at the K-Line factory in North Carolina. They'd managed to sneak out an entire train set piece-by-piece.
Reminds me of a Johnny Cash song.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks "One Piece At A Time." 😂
A store called the wetstern depot had 3 lines of custom K line plymouth switchers made about 350 of each and they are all still in stock brand new online for about $95 I have one and love it
Great to know!
Yes, last year I purchased several K-Line Santa Fe passenger coaches from Western Depot and since 1993 when I set up my 1st of 4 layouts that I have had since then, (2 house moves); I have incorporated many K-Line cars and accessories, and all have been of good quality and have given me no maintenance problems.
Excellent video! I own a few K-Line pieces including a complete Great Northern MP15 set, and just acquired a set of K-Line ore cars. I really like their products, but Im personally more of a Lionel guy. I was shocked to learn how K-Line got caught red handed by Lionel over the dispute of technology, just like MTH vs Lionel. It was sad how Lionel shut down it's K-Line division, but I understand they need to do proper business, since they basically would've been competing with themselves. It would be great to see a return in conventional controlled train sets again and a revival of the brand could help. Lionel should reintroduce these trains under a division like K-Lionel to market a more affordable option to newcomers. Or maybe Menards should step in and aquire some more of the tooling from K-Line? Only time will tell.
I think for Lionel it was just a matter of "vision". Coming out of the MTH suit and several management changes left Lionel looking to find it's "core" and K-Line did not fit in.
Hi Nikolas. How’s it going? Got anything new recently?
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks I agree. Now with MTH a scaled down player now, I wonder what the future has for Lionel.
@@huntercoleman460 I just acquired a MTH premier GP-60 with PS1.
I remember the K Kine showroom in NY Toy Building nice place nice people
I'm not a toy train hobbyist (I'm a roadgeek by trade) but this is still an interesting story.
Thank you very much!
I still enjoy K Line's stream lined passenger cars, and I really like there Black Bonnet freight cars and passenger set. Funny how now Black Bonnet is the rage of train manufactures. All thank to K Line.
Thanks for commenting. I've never been a blackbonnet fan myself, but variety makes the hobby great!
Always wondered what happened to K-Line. A factory in this area also bore that name so as a child, I always thought that was where the namesake trains were made.
Wish they were still around. I would love to get back into trains as Lionel is too expensive. So far Menards seems to only do rolling stock, no locomotives.
The Menards FP7 production models should be coming out soon. ruclips.net/video/JjzPZWz18Pg/видео.htmlsi=5k3ZDGQcE5iFpCxM
Try Piko G scale
I’d like to see American Flyer owned by another company. Lionel is not doing a good job with the S scale line. I’d rather have Athearn, Walthers, or Atlas own American Flyer.
I'd love to see it brought back to New Haven, where it belongs.
Most interesting video! Thx 13:35
Thanks for watching!
I have a few k-line engines with TMCC and love them.some.od their rolling stock is good quality
Cool!
Of everything in my collection, my favorite is my K-Line Crusader set mint in the box
Nice!
The children in my neighbourhood have never seen a model train layout . The only thing they know about are their gaming tablets and not much else . SAD . 😢
Marx guy here, I`ve only been restoring for two years and knew nothing of the rivalries among these companies. Quite informative, thanks.
You're quite welcome!
What I never understood completely- was how Williams was able to reproduce many items of rolling stock and passenger cars that clearly were re-pops of Lionel classics (for a much less expensive price I might add) and seemed to never incur any " resistance" or litigation from Lionel. Was there some licensing in place that I am not aware of?
Patent / copyright laws regarding reproductions of physical objects is different from intellectual property. That's also why K-Line was able to use trucks and couplers that were identical to MPC products.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Thanks Mike for your very informative information !
I really miss K Line.
I think they lost their way when they put all their eggs in the scale basket.
I wonder how much Maury Kline knew and when he knew it when it comes to the alleged "stolen technology".
I really wish that K Line had either complied with the settlement and said nothing or had gone to trial.
That would have been the place to say "We hired one of their guys to make new, better stuff and we didn't know that he had an exclusive deal with Lionel giving them rights to whatever he created. "
Once you agree to a settlement you have to follow it.
Menards is the only bright spot for low buck operators like myself.
I keep hoping some of Weaver's tooling will show up with them.
I find myself buying more K-Line than Lionel. I feel that the quality was better back then. As for another 3-rail market, Menards is making pretty good strides in their products. I enjoy your videos, keep up the good work!
Thanks. I agree that Lionel was inconsistent in the late 90s and early 2000s. Ownership changes, CEO changes, and the MTH lawsuit opened the door for K-Line and MTH to expand their market share at the time.
wonder who makes the Menards line aside for "China Company X". The packaging probably says "Menard, Inc Eau Claire, Wisconsin". Model trains were not part of the items offered during my employment there (2003-2014). Probably a good thing else I know I'd have been blowing many paychecks on trains.
@@davidwayneprins My guess is that they are actually manufactured by Kader, who owns Bachmann among others.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Mike, I just purchased several Menards and RMT Reefers and I was amazed at the almost identical tooling /mold lines of both-
@@franktino6676 Likely that both are made by Kader from old Williams dies.
K-line is the reason I was able to afford my first complete Texas Special consist. Tough little Kusan-inspired trains. Some day all the computer chips will fail and the tinkerers will jury-rig their fancy locos to run straight off of a manually manipulated rheostat; you know, a conventional transformer? The day will come again when the train makers realize the ease and dependability of traditional model railroading and they'll start making k-line or k-line like items again. And they will still be in competition against all those postwar 675s that haven't died yet!😂
We can all hope so!
Based off this perspective, it feels like K-Line's Huberis is what destroyed it in the end. It should of kept quiet. Now, Lionel is expensive and with the sell of MTH to various partners, namely Atlas, the market is shrinking.
Amazing bob grubba is with broadway limited imports today making ho scale products
K-Line made some good stuff. They even sold " S Gauge " rolling stock ( Old Marx tooling IIRC ) that had trucks that were superior looking to Lionel's American Flyer ones. ( and they didn't fall apart right out of the box). I'm not a fan of the Lion Chief/ Flyer Chief system, I run most of my Flyer on conventional DC.
I have several K line locos good runners.
👍
No wonder I missed this. We had Hurricane Katrina happening during this time.
I hope you came through ok.
Thanks a lot for clearing up some of what went on. I love the K-line 18-inch passenger cars and particularly the cabooses. My son and I was greatly excited by the new rolling stock that they were putting out in the o gauge line. I still look for used K-Line O gauge rolling stock.
They made good stuff!
K Line made very affordable passenger cars in many lengths, including 21 inches in many different road names. At least you can them on used market.
It's truly a shame. Been an O gauge operator and collector for over 30 years. I look at my inventory book and it's amazing what I have. Thats why I buy up K-Line, Weaver, etc when I see something I like. I don't "need" any more trains....I just want them. Looks like profit always comes first, and not the people who supply that profit......the customers.
Seems like model & toy train tooling changes hands more often than I had previously realized. It makes sense though, no sense in starting from scratch if you can use and refurbish old tooling.
It happens in HO, too. In the 50s, Athearn made many items under contract for the Lionel HO. In the 89s, Athearn made a run of new gondolas and accidentally included the Lionel logo on the graphics. 100 or so went out the door before they noticed the mistake!
Editors in Chief are the new Generals. God help us all.
Thank you for your historical presentation about K-Line. You explained the missing pieces of the puzzle between K-Line and Lionel. Indeed, K-Line (and Marx) is an excellent entry-level into O27 gauge trains. And the Lionchief is too expensive. A neighbor was interested in buying an entry-level train set. But she wanted a set operated with a transformer. K-Line made a set of O27 cars for The National Toy Train Museum in Lancaster, PA. #6115 Caboose, #6222 Hopper, and #6616 Gondola. My favorites are the #6615 National Toy Train Museum Freight Container Car labeled with the RR Station House Museum building. The #6419 Boxcar TOY TRAIN MUSEUM commemorated the" MARX TOYS" ANNIVERSARY. And that has the Toy Train Museum logo and the Marx Logo. K-Line made a perfect Porter Engine. ( I don't think Lionel made a Porter.) Thank you for covering in a previous video K-Line's Circus transportation. And a good selection of Ringling Bros. and Barnum and Baily Circus Engines and train cars were never offered by Lionel. When MPC made the Lionel trains, K-Line had sophisticated lithography on their engines and boxcars. Examples include Nabisco, Pepsi, Coca-Cola, and the line of Campbell's Soup Kids Boxcars. Including Campbell's Christmas Boxcar #649203 is sweet with the Campbell's Kids Skiing. Keep these video programs coming, and they are enjoyable.
Thank you!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks You're welcome.
If you're looking for a conventionally (transformer) controlled starter set there's still some around as "New Old Stock" or "NOS." Check the websites of some of the bigger toy train dealers or start hitting some train shows, they're out there.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Excellent tip!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Thanks! I hope mdeang3 finds it useful. I see NOS sets pretty frequently at the shows I go to.
I wish you said what happened to Maury. Last I researched years ago, he owned some sort of small store front shipping store in NC.
I wish there was more information about him in general. Apparently, after the K-Line collapse he refused to talk about the whole episode.
I used to own a hobby shop and I did sell K-Line as well as Lionel.
Nice!
I has no idea there were so many manufacturers!!! I just thought Lionel.
And that's just 3-rail O gauge!
I would love to see a video on the MTH lawsuit mentioned in this video.
I've been doing research on it. It was a messy situation.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks It was a very " Wolfey " situation!
What about Menards trains there was no mention of these trains or are they long after the making of this clip?
Menards dhd not start making trains until well after the collapse of K-Line. And while Menards, MTH, RMT, and Atlas O make O gauge trains, only Lionel is currently making starter sets.
K-line stuff was better than LionCheap.
It's possible that Menard's may take up the starter set market.
I'm not holding my breath. We still haven't seen production models at the FP7, they would have to come up with a separate power supply, and based on the current pricing of the f unit and most of their cars, a set with locomotive three cars and a caboose would still retail for around $250 to $300 which is still going to scare people away.
I liked k line I have a good bit of there stuff
I currently own nothing from K Line. Just Lionel, MTH, Right of Way, and Weaver. The 80s resurgence of toy trains had to do with people who grew up in the 50s getting back into trains. K Line was basically a dollar store version of Lionel but they still offered some good stuff. Brass trains were also getting popular in the 80s. What’s your favorite K Line piece?
Of the K-Line pieces that I own, the Iraqi Freedom set from 2004 gets the most track time on my layout.
They came out with some cabooses that were of exceptionally high detail and scale accuracy.. as were their billboard reefers, complete with interiors and 'hanging meat'
Their later scale stuff is really quite good give it a shot
K-line rocks!
👍
Anything that Lye in hell acquired from K-line they then lost to MTH.
K-Line was fun
Yes it was!
Another fantastic video to. Learn a little model electric train history
Thank you!
What is crap is the consumers are the only ones that really got hurt, Lionel didn't lose out on any money and made out like the true bandits.
Actually, K-Line was using tech that Lionel developed and paid for and sold it for prices that undercut Lionel. If Ford stole tech from GM and sold the same item cheaper you can bet GM would come after them.
It's a shame. I really like my K-Line rolling stock, and passenger cars. Especially the 21" cars. They're still leagues beyond what Lionel is making right now. I hate the couplers that they're using on the new 21" cars. They look so goofy going around curves.
They were nice cars!
😮A SD70 for a hundred bucks?! This was definitely pre 🤡🌏! We didn’t know how good we had it in those days.
It was wild!
You failed to mention K-Line's S-gauge cars. Their freight truck was and is still way better then the ones used by Lionel for the Flyer line.
Thanks for the information!
I have been running electric trains since 1955 when my parents bought me the first electric train set and since then I have added Marx, Lionel, K-Line, Williams, RMT, Menards, MTH, etc., rolling stock and engines and accessories from all of them except no engines yet, from Menards. ( plastic gears ). The Lionel prices have gone through the roof - their latest catalog highlights $ 1699 -$1800 + Greenbriers, and $ 100 box cars, etc. Sorry- no way will I spend that much money on an engine or rolling stock. Yes, I have both conventional and LionChief, but I will only buy a modern era engine either used from my regular hobby store in my home state ( brick and mortar ) that can be tested before purchase in person, or I will purchase used Lionel rolling stock from the same dealer for a maximum of $ 30 a car in good condition. My "new" purchases for rolling stock are from RMT or Menards.
I completely understand! Thanks for the comments!
I’m hoping Menards will make conventional sets sometime soon, O Gauge train sets need to be brought back to the $100 range.
That would be nice, but considering the cost of the Menards Beta FP7 was over $150, and their cars retail for $25 and up, you can see that a starter set of a locomotive, 2 cars, and a caboose plus track and transformer would easily come in north of $250. :-(
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricksyeah that’s very true, it really sucks that we don’t have any affordable train sets anymore.
They just made one lol, although it is only a loco and caboose it is something!
@@strasburgrailfan90 Yes. It's a diesel and caboose for $249. Not exactly the $100 you were asking for.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricksthat’s true
THREE RAILS ? ? ! NO THANKS, AIN'T SEEN A REAL RAILROAD LIKE THAT. Except NYC subways, Yes, 600 volts !
How about NYC steam? images.app.goo.gl/etFfZT57jVqQmUWy5
Isn't the Menards stuff rehashed K Line?
Most of the Menards freight cars (boxcars, gons, hoppers, etc) use old Williams tooling. The modern tank car MIGHT be old K-Line but I think it's actually former MTH Railking tooling.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks I am of the mind that the Menards' modern tank car is a clone of the RailKing tanker rather than a tooling transfer. For one thing, it rides higher than the RailKing one.
Another example is the K-Line ore cars, which are clones of the old Atlas O scale ones. I have both, and the injection mold gates on the two are in different locations. I suspect the upcoming RMT ones will show similar differences.
Very Sad!! :(
Yes.
If I remember right MTH was in a position to crush Lionel for stealing their tech but did not. Lionel was in a position to crush L Line for stealing their tech and they did.
Essentially correct. MTH believed the hobby would die without the Lionel name, so they mended fences with Lionel and partnered with them on a series of reproductions under the "Lionel Corporation" name. Basic. MTH made them and Lionel sold them and it gave Lionel the cash they needed to survive.
BUT, Lionel gave K-Line an easy settlement at first and K-Line blew it.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks and MTH could have put out an embarrassing article about Lionel and didn't. I would like to know just how true K line's remarks were. L Line was wrong and Lionel was no better.
Lionel will price its self out of business and it will be soon
Really a shame.
Indeed.
I belonged to the K-Line club. The engines they offered were unbeatable. I really miss them. The big dog ate up the little dog. I still refuse to buy L products, except for vintage American made. Their Chinese made stuff isn't reliable, and is outrageously expensive. Where will you get parts in 20 years? At least the vintage American made is repairable.
Thanks for watching!