Athearn Blue Box "Super-Tuning" Tips & Tricks. Do They Actually Work?
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- Опубликовано: 18 янв 2024
- I researched and found out the steps how modelers "super-tuned" their Blue Box Athearn Locomotives to get better performance back in the day. Follow along to see if the techniques provide better performance.
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- The oral care product that was suggested in the past for de-burring gears was Pearl Drops Tooth Polish
- Polishing sintered iron wheels is not recommended as that reduces traction
- Using graphite or any electrically conductive lubricant on motor bearings is not recommended
- Adding weight may not be possible if DCC board, cab interior, etc is added
- A better option than soldering directly to copper contact strip atop the motor is to cut off the ends of the steel clip-on contact strip, clip it in place on top of the copper contact, then solder to the steel clip instead of the copper. In the event of future maintenance and repair, the steel clip can be popped off without de-soldering the leads and the motor then disassembled or worked on.
Thanks for your input!!
I used to use spade connectors with a horizontal offset for the motor wires, and I soldered my wire to those, and the center portion of the steel clip as you had mentioned in the past reply.
This way, if I had to replace or repair the trucks, I didn't need to de-solder anything.
@@michaelmorgan7893 EXCELLENT!
I enjoyed your in depth run at tuning up the Athearn diesel. Heck, I enjoy just listening to you talk. You have a pleasant voice and throw in some humor and I cherish that on RUclips. It’s like you are an old friend that I can hang out with at any time. You do interesting things with your model trains. Thumbs up, my friend!
Ya I like listening to Ron it like my favorite hobby with Bob Ross
Thanks 13th! Your very kind :-)
@@classicmodeltrains You *may* have imperfect speech patterns, twitches and pauses (Shatner-esque pauses?) and say uh and um a lot but those have all been edited out, right? And boy there's a lot of edits or camera pauses/restarts in your videos. 😉 Regardless, it is a pretty well-polished presentation.
@@Hjerte_Verke I do have a slow speech pattern. Kind of like a stutterer but I make no noise so I edit those out to keep the pacing going.
Every day is a school day. We all learn from trying and sometimes failing! Great video as always.
I agree Darren, now I know what and what not to do in there future :-)
Recently did some batch tune ups of some Blue Box PA1s. As part of that I pulled all the gear boxes apart and ran the gears through my ultrasonic cleaner. When I went to reassemble the, i was essentially pulling random gears and mixing and matching. I found from doing it that way that some combos of gears worked better together than others. I had some trucks that when reassembled rolled as nicely as a freight car, others would just stop as soon as i stopped pushing on them. I felt like those caused more friction issues than the wheel bearings.
I agree. Sounds like they were "run in" to each other as a truck assembly but when they were all mixed and reassembled differently now they need a new "run in" period to loosen up.
I've been missing your videos as my computer was in the shop for repair. Now I got it back and can resume watching your videos. Keep 'em coming. I really like your test set up. If you accidently order the bright white like I did you can paint the LED's with some yellow acrylic paint and you have warm white. I can't believe none of that worked. Maybe the wheels are just too slick - guess that's why the older models used traction tires. Cheers from eastern TN
I messed up by polishing the sintered iron wheels. Many of the techniques worked successfully. Athearns never used traction tires to the best of my knowledge. Glad to see your back now!!
Testor’s Turn Signal Amber enamel works perfect for this. Even a felt tip marker works (but seems to lose some of its color after a day or two).
And I say a quiet thank you every time I'm reminded my blue box engines don't have those cursed things.
A big noise reduction improvement I've noticed from my experience is removing the tabs on the bottom of the motor plate that grounds it to the chassis, run a wire instead! There's a lot of vibration that's transferred and the chassis and trucks amplifies it.
Awesome videos man, great work!
Sounds like a good idea to me!!
I hope that works out on my C 44-9
@@Devilninja333 I just uploaded a short, it'll give you an idea what to possibly expect! ✌️
That was fun to watch; the results were surprising!
Was surprising for me as well ;-)
So much fun Ron. I love the old blue box locos. All mine work just fine with the regular maintenance. They do get noisy. Thanks for the great video!
Thanks Gary!
If the wheels were spinning, then it wasn't an axel problem,it was a traction problem. Polishing sintered wheels should not affect traction, as they are still rougher than plated wheels, which tells me that you probably got some of the dry graphite either on the track,or the wheels. Id startby cleaning both with mineral spirits, then using test leads to the motor for power, put a clean paper towel on a test trackand run the engine setting on the towel to clean off any remaining residue. Everything you did should have made that loco pull like an ox. Modern manufacturing methods have pretty much killed the need to lap in the gears the way we did with "Pearl Drops" tooth polish, and the results were marginal improvement's at best even back then. Great video as usual, and looking forward to seeing more 😊😊😊
Hello Stephen, You have brought up some interesting points. I'm pretty sure I did not contaminate the wheel surfaces but it would only take a bit of time to clean them as you stated and test again. Thanks for your information :-)
About time ya put up a new video Ron, going into withdrawals lol. I use dry graphite on my freight and passenger car trucks, works wonderful and won't pick up dirt like oil. I even used it on my daughter's race car in girl scouts, helped her take home the trophy
Winter storm really slowed me down. Yup Ive heard of quite a few Fellers using graphite on the cars. Congrats on the win with the little one as well :-)
Outstanding Video. I love your content on repairing model trains.
Thank you Alex!
Thanks for this tune up video. Always look forward to the notification bell going off.
We gotta try and learn from things. Loving it.
Keep up the good work Ron. 👏👍🍻
Thank you very much Robert!
Good to see you Ron, luv your channel and sense of humor! We luv trains! Indeed TU! A Fan I Say!
Thank you William!!
Another video to save in the locomotive repair list. Thank you for taking the time to go through this demonstration.
Glad it was helpful Bob!
Thank you for posting this video Ron. It has given me many ideas on tweaking my Athearns. I will be viewing this this numerous more times. Your results in the grade performance are especially interesting. Keep up the good work and stay warm as much as possible. Sincerely, George.
Thanks George, Glad it might be of use to you in the future
A lot of great advice in this one. One thing that sometimes does go overlooked, is at one point, back in the early to mid 1980s, by my obeservations, the drive shaft components and sometimes even the center holes in the gears, can have a tiny bit of plastic flash. My guess has been that quality control slipped a bit at that point, but on locos I do know the history of, I've seen it on early 1980s production, before they went from cast metal sideframes to plastic. On the drive shaft couplings, this tiny bit of flash can cause a LOT of noise as the body can act like a resonating chamber.
I agree with your statement Sir!
Wow (from your 33%'er) That was a lot of work you did. I was thinking "Just how many Athearns do I have, and do I really want to do this to every one of them?" Then seeing the end results (sigh of relief). I'll just clean and lube like I've always done. Don't cut the graphite short. It has its place, just not everywhere. Happy to hear you have heat, and thanks for curing my need for another Classic Model Train video. I was going into withdraws.
Yup, that weather slowed down production for awhile. Hoping the Little Lady is doing good :-)
Good to know video. Thanks for taking the time to dispel the myths and show what does work. 78-73 dB does make a difference. May not sound like much (pun intended) but lash a couple of locos together. Thanks!
Thanks Dan!
AWESOME!!!!! Keep up the good work.
Thank you again :-)
Another great video Ron. I have over 30 Blue Box locomotives and they all run great with just the normal lube and oil maintenance. I will never understand the desire everyone has to replace the electrical pickup bar with soldering in a wire the bar works just fine. Stay well. Jeff
Only reason I've ever had to replace the pickup bar with soldered wires is when the bar is rusty or if it puts too much tension on the trucks. Barring that, some of my units, particularly my switchers and high nose GPs and SDs, have a rectifier diode wired to a bulb just behind the headlight lens at either end. In that case, in for a penny, in for a pound, and I replace the bar while I am at it.
Hello Jeff. After doing this I agree, the bar does just fine.
I don’t solder and the bars are a magical wonder for me as they are so easy to remove for maintenance! Bkue Box locos are the best to clean and maintain!
@@ecidaho Yeah, I love the design of the Athearn locomotives. They're the easiest to work on. Cheers - TN
Good subject for a video. Interesting to see the results. Well presented. Thanks
Thanks for watching Steve
Super tuning an Athearn blue box can be a rabbit hole. I have done my fair share of tuning, but I’m still trying to find the best combination. Thanks again for another great video.
Rabbit hole....Perfect word to describe this!!
Great video with useful information. My dad loves the athern blue box engines. He didn't do the super tune just lubed some things and his engines still pull today. 33%
Thank you for all your support!!
I've got several Blue Box Loco's and have wondered if there was any way to tune them - your video took the guess-work out of that and saved me the trouble. Thanks for your video and all your content.
Thanks for watching Steve :-)
After you pull apart a few bogies it becomes easier.They aren't complex.
Well done passing 10K subs!!!!
Thanks Rick! Seems like it took forever :-)
Great video. Some great tips for tuning the old blue box loco's. I am sure I can put this information to use. I have a large number of the blue boxes that need to be upgraded to DCC. So this will be part of the process. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks John!
Thanks for another fantastic video
Thanks for watching Tom
Great video as always Ron. I have a few blue box locos. On one of them I removed the fly wheels entirely, they can drift slighty over time and rub against the chassis, the clearances are super tight. I removed the dog bones and the cups on the motor and gear towers and replaced with flexible tubing. Runs much quieter and smoother and was a very cheap mod. I've done this on a number of European and American locos that have a centrally mounted motor, it always reduces noise, as it reduces the number of moving parts. Keep up the great work.
Ive heard of a few Fellers that do that modification to the drive lines and have positive results just like you mentioned. I think I will give that a try!!!
Great video Ron...all very interesting information.
I actually think the results provided very useful information...My take away is this...
- Polish the bearing surface, and commutator, along with the gear run in...
- Do not polish the surface of the tires (this is reducing the friction and therefore lowering the traction) and increase weight
- The loco will never roll like the caboose because of all the friction on the gears and their shafts...Maybe try comparing the roll with the gears out.
- Lube and oil as usual.
Also I note that the decibel scale is logarithmic and not linear...it is said that every 10db is perceived as doubling the sound so a 5db loss is actually a significant reduction.
Rich...
Hello Rich, I agree with your statements. I learned what and what not to do. Just following What the old timers did back in the day to see if it was good information or not. I believe that for every 3 db increase it takes twice the amount of energy. Learned this back in my schlepping racks and stacks days.
The buzzing noise like you know is the flywheels. Try trueing them up on a lathe. Spinning them on the shaft will help trueing them will work better. Also take some endplay out of the motor by adding another washer/ spacer.
I only wished I had a hobby size lathe :-)
Yes,some are loose and some are too tight.
Another very interesting video. Very easy to watch, listen to and follow along. I could not however catch enough information on the led light you wired in. I would like to get more detailed information on those and order some. I wish I had your touch on removing the gear worm covers that secure the trucks in frame without breaking the locking tabs. Thanks for all of your time and effort. Very well done as always. Keep em coming!
the LED's are from Evan Designs. www.modeltrainsoftware.com
One of the problems that I have encountered is that one or both flywheels will be spinning on the motor shaft under loads, so super glue them on after sanding the shaft first. Graphite is ok for coupler boxes but a super lube is better for the motor and trucks, do not lube the truck to frame ground contact area, it does better dry. The SW switchers can have loud noise that comes from the flywheels rubbing up against the shell inside, so try repositioning the motor slightly and test again or replace the motor mounts with new ones because it is less than a millimeter in clearance and you can also try sanding the inside of the shell for a little more clearance too. Great show just the same, I made a puller tool for these flywheels but it cost more to make than people are willing to pay. I learned a lot from this hobby and it is always interesting.
Sounds like some good tips there Joseph!
Needed this motivation for the DD-40 fleet 🤙🏽
Right on!
Very interesting video, thanks!
Thank you Gordon
Awesome video. Any old locomotive I have bought I always just did the basic replace cracked axel gears then fresh lube and grease ;)
Thanks Matt. That's all I'm going to be doing as well :-)
Your quest for low friction would make the German high speed rail engineers proud! Another great and useful video. Thanks again.
Thanks for stopping by for a view!
I like your videos and your C&EI gondola!
Thanks
All of my old athearns run smooth and quiet. Never had a bad one ...yet.
Very cool!
Great video for a snowy day…and a physics lesson!….👍
Oh you have snow also? Seems that stuff is everywhere this season :-)
Thanks for the video Ron! Will not super tune my Athearn locos just clean and grease! Awesome work and effort in the attempt to improve the locos performance!! Now just need to hand rails on it!
Seemed a bit over rated. Yes it looks pretty slummy with out the hand rails and other detail pieces.
I just happened across your channel looking for something to fill a bit of time and like what I've seen so far. This video was interesting as I have a bunch of old blue box locomotives that need some TLC. I did wonder about the polishing of the sintered wheels as I would have thought not all the compound would come out of any grooves or scratches. (Guess I was right) :) Great video! :)
I'm glad you stumbled into the channel Steve!!
Thanks, Ron, it maybe too much weight after all, but still it was another good video, packed with the right amount of everything, PS like the humor.
Thanks!
fine effort bro. yes, the wheel polish increased conductivity but lost grip by less friction. and some of mine make much noise others not
Thank you and yes I will not ever polish sintered iron wheels again :-)
Good info. Thanks!
Glad you liked it
A tip of the engineer's cap to you for posting your experiment even though it seemed to be a failure. I'm a big fan of the Athearn blue box stuff. As a 1970's Tyco kid, that was the stuff we dreamed about but couldn't afford. I suspect that the change in decibels is because the added weights in the body shell act as dampeners to keep the plastic from resonating. Also, your randomly inserted Bigfoot comment made me bust out laughing. Final thought: is there a reason that the incline ramp has invasion stripes?
Hello Greg, I dont believe the experiment was a failure. Many things were learned. The ramp has them stripes as an ode to the myth busters show. They were always stripping stuff to determine the speed it was traveling :-)
Love to See this very Interesting👍👍👍👍.
Thanks
Time to get my Ron on.
:-)
Hello Ron how are you doing buddy I like your train display it looks very cool 😎 😊
Greetings Paul, I'm doing OK. Weather is going to break here tomorrow and get somewhat nice again. Thanks for the compliments on the displays :-)
Very good Ron. Definitely a late 80s or early 90s engine with the brass flywheels mine only draws 1/4 Amp the old steel flywheels pull 1/2- 3/4 Amp and actually pull better they are early 70s. I have new LED lites to put in them I added velcro in shells to somewhat quite them down. I have not added weight yet to mine
Thanks for the good information and tips!
Ron's Mid- day Matinee!!!!
:-)
Wow this was so interesting, Ron! I've been wondering what would happen crossing a bluebox with Ron's super loco skills. I have owned a few bluebox athearns in my time but I always end up letting them go. Something about them vibrating my scenic loose as they plough around my layout, lol!
Thanks Dave. Love your "vibrating my scenic loose as they plough around my layout" comment" :-)
I have done the rewiring since the 1980s, that is always an improvement over (SOB) Strait Outta the Box. Of course some good oil and grease never hurts on an older locomotive.
Right on!
Wow Ron. I m not only a 33% er but I read all those comments. Not much to add if anything.
But I gotta do it!
I was blown away that you didn’t develop a short circuit when you liberally used graphite. It’s still a safe thing never to do for that reason.
Model Railroader magazine used to test a new locomotive and then “super tune “ it . And their test results would show a big performance improvement. I heard or read somewhere that the
Guy would inspect every gear or piece of driveline for flash or burrs. Once those were all corrected he would lube the locomotive parts with labeled oils and grease. And that seemed
All that was needed. I purchased some SUPER LUBE . Nice stuff. But I think it’s a bit too stiff for small locomotives. Probably ok on Lionel and American Flyer though.
And wooo hooo on your balancing trick. Nice improvement on vibration. I was thinking at first you would chuck them up in a lathe or drill press and sand or file them. Thanks for a great video!
Hello Steven, Add away Sir!! Perhaps in a few months I will go over all the update techniques I missed and do it again. I dont believe I "liberally" used graphite. I was having a hard time getting it to stay in place. Perhaps that spray stuff I was evaporating isn't even graphite based at all. I'm told that stuff for pizza is 100% parmesan cheese. I hope to one day have a hobby lathe. Thats what I know that I have "arrived" (ha ha) Thanks for watching :-)
If you don't try, you'll never know. Great video.
Exactly ! Thanks
Thank you for sharing. Ron here is a very good book on tuning & upgrading an Athearn locomotive, Athearn by Robert Schleicher, published by Golden Bell Press. 👍
Yup I seen a lot of books are available for athearn performance upgrades. Some are out of print and sell for over $100 for a paperback. From a bookstore! HOLY MOLY!!
It my be as new as early 2000s,the ready to roll series, i just installed a digitrax decoder( hard wire) on mine,it my still be a little noisy but crawls a little better red and black to the track,orange and gray to the motor, white (f)and yellow(r) wires to the lights and blue wire common lights. Great Video 👍thats the fun part of model railroading, making old locomotives run better,maybe LOL🤣
Yup, the fixing and modifying are a blast for sure!
That was very educational. Now I know what I should bother to do and skip on my Athearns. Probably the biggest deal for me is balancing those flywheels to tone it down. Twisting them is a whole lot easier than trying to drill balance them. Hey, I have the same sound meter!
There was a lot of work for very little return for sure. I used to like when I could get my sound meter to read "120". That meant the PA was just the right size :-)
@@classicmodeltrains Hahaha! Most people at my events complain if it hits 90...
Another great one Ron I believe I'll leave super tuning to those with egg on their hats. 😂😂😂
Thanks John, Yup it is a bit over rated :-)
Ps there is a thing we used to do for out HO slot cars waay back. Was to burnish the commutators by running a ball point pen in the gaps. It smooths down the edge and lets the motor start easier and wears the brushes less.
Them slot car tips are plentiful. I had a hard time just keeping the stock cars on the track let alone hopping them up. Thanks for the tip!!
We also learned that if everyone is running on the same transformer. You would get going as fast as you could without flying off. And then…. As your friend was neck and neck releasing your throttle and the other guy would get the extra “juice” and fly off
@@stevenwaller192 too Funny!
This was an EXCELLENT video!! Even though you didn't get the results that you were looking for, the techniques and maintenance procedures that you showed were great! I have a few of those "late blue box" and early ready to roll Athearn units that I've been thinking if upgrading with Genesis motors. Have you considered doing that? If so I would be interested in seeing the process and what results are which you achieve. I don't have all the electronic testing gear that you have so I would not be able to judge the improvement. Thanks for posting this video!! - Brian
Hello Brian, I have though about a video on upgrading to them fancy Genesis motors. I just have to find a source for the components and drive lines I need, but it's definitely on the production list.
@@classicmodeltrains I have seen the drive shafts available on eBay I believe. Seems to me that they were adjustable. I think the rub is that the Genesis motors have a hex drive flywheel where the drive shaft connects. So maybe a little hard to find. If I run across the parts, I'll let you know! Thanks again!
A-line part #12034. It gives you parts for 2 locos. It provides the hex fitting for the flywheel and the universal coupling for the worm gear shaft. The driveshaft has the coupling on one end, and the other end fits in the hex. It is square shaft, and you trim it to fit. Far quieter than the BB universals.
@@cat650paver Thanks for that info!
Awesome experiment. Good job. 🚂🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚂
Thank you!
Thanks for ALL your videos. Lots of info, right or wrong info helps those like me that are new to the hobby.
Can you give more info as to the light that you installed or post a link. I've been trying to find a replacement bulb for my U28b locomotive. Thanks in advanced.
I bought them at the LHS a few years ago. package says Evan Designs and here is a web link www.ModelTrainSoftware.com. There just a LED with a bridge rectifier and resistor already built in. Hope this helps
Poor Ron! You've stumbled into the land of "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! (because my way is correct!)). You're a braver man than 👁️! From too many years on the subject here's my 26 cents gathered from decades of research.
1. Replace the steel clips with soldered wire. Pig tail it and use a 22-24 gauge for flexibility.
2. Replace the sintered iron wheels with NWSL or similar nickle silver sets.
2a. Or, chuck each wheel into a drill press and burnish the tread with a bit of clean wood. Makes them nice and shiney. I coat them with aircraft antioxidant but that stuff is $$$$$$. I got mine at a demo for free.
3. Pearl Drops was the abrasive of choice to run in the gears. No longer made. I tried some abrasive liquid cleaner on the old PA I bought and after a 30 minute run I noticed no sound change or current drop. I also got to clean off my table, walls, floor shirt, pants and shoes.
4. I use washers to keep my gears in centerline and to reduce gear wobble. Can't remember the size but they do make a difference in noise.
5. Polish the dog bones with 1000 grit wet sandpaper. Same for the cups.
Brilliant idea on the brass weights. Darth Sante Fe drills his out for balancing. I tried. I failed. He's a much more talented machinist.
Keep it up. Have fun. The way some folks go OCD on this I wonder if when Artemis lands on the moon, it'll be pulled along by some upgraded Blue Boxes. ( Did you know it was originally yellow?! Yes I did, and as a former printer I can tell you Irv got a better deal switiching to cyan because you get more coverage with less ink.)
See thru roof fans! Must....buy.....see through...roof fans. Details West, don't forsake me 😭😭😭😭
Or I could just run it 🤔
Well Mark the comments have been interesting so far. Some people have missed the fact that this was what the Old Fellers back in the day did to there B.B. It's right in the title. "Does It Help" and "do They Work".........Well whats a guy to do. :-)
Well done Ron! You put a lot of time and effort into this, not to mention patience to do it over and over again. Saying you had to shave twice was hysterical. I played this to my wife and she loved that line too. Great job buddy! Tom
Thank you Tom :-)
Another great video. I'm sure you are right that polishing the wheels made them slick. Some Tri-Ang models were made with ribbed wheels that made gradients a snap. But holymoly were they loud. Speaking of noise, I wonder if a viscous grease in the gears would dampen the gear noise? Or maybe stuff some acoustic foam in the body?
Hello Michael, viscous grease would quiet them down but would also cause extra resistance. I can only imagine the sound of ribbed wheels.....Holy Moly!!
Skip the foam it didn't help the AHM diesel I had that came with it and when it goes bad it will be ----EVERYWHERE!
those small improvements add up. i remember back when i was a cub scout, when we had the pinewood derby car races, our pack master saying about using graphite powder to help with decreasing the rolling resistance and it helped. i wonder if for you, the reason it didn't fully work was cause of using the liquid graphite. as for the grade test, i think you did a heath and messed up. before i continue, i'll admit i don't know much about the device you were using. but when you increased and decrease, it looked more like you were measuring the degree (which is different from the grade). now, i could be wrong, and maybe you figured that out and measured your track to correspond with the rise. either way, it's a shame the engine couldn't make the climb. enjoyed watching the video and getting some ideas on how to improve athearn engines, keep up the great work and i look forward to future videos.
Greetings! You have sharp eyes and are correct with the grade tests. I realized I was using the wrong word and calling it grade instead of angle. The tests are still good because the same numbers were used, although the "Grade" was a bit steep. The liquid graphite no longer had any liquid in it after 7 minutes because the liquid transfer fluid evaporated off, leaving only the graphite. Or at least that's what the directions on the can tells me. Thanks for watching and leaving a comment :-)
I can attest to Blue Box noise.I live 1/4 mi. from a mainline.When a train passes by while running my Atherns,the models are louder than the real locos....still love em though ..Blue Box forever!
GRRRRrrrrrrrrrrr............ GOOD TIMES!! :-)
p.s.~ "Topal, the Smokers Tooth-Polish".... 🤣👍
Good idea!!
thanks man
:-)
Two things to consider, it would be fun to put a dial indicator on the flywheels and check total run-out. Plus the motor shafts are kinda short, dothey extend into the flywheels more than half way? Also take the untouched chassis and note the driveline angle, any drive shaft doesn't like steep angles. I removed the white plastic motor mounts and then set the motor with a dab of silicone,plus soldering a wire for the ground path and connect it to the headlamp mount or better yet, drill and tap a hole for the bottom connection. I also noted that the bronze clip has the contacts bent to make connections just flatten them out, there not needed now....
You make some good points there Perry. I do have to say them flywheels definitely had some run out. If I had a small hobby lathe I would have trued them up a bit. I do not believe the drive lines had too steep of an angle. I know just what your talking about.
I agree with the normal maintenance being the best for most of the blue box locomotives. I will replace the pick up bar with wire for 2 reasons, one being if it is rusty, the other is for a remotor. I bought a used DD35 twin motor, and bought the new Genesis motors to replace them with. I think it made a night and day differance in the way it runs. The motors are also available DCC ready, right from Athearn. I also replaced the sintered wheels with nickel silver ones from Athearn.
Right on David!! Although I have positive test results that sintered wheels pull harder than N.S. Just not in this video :-)
Good video Ron!! Between the weight and the wheel polish, that might be where you lost some traction. I dunno, Im not a mechanical engineer (I did stay at a Holiday inn Express last night)
Too Funny!! I use the Holiday inn express line myself. Always throws some people off :-)
Here at your 33% club! Try this for polishing. I use Mothers Aluminum Mag Wheel Polish. I use it on everything. I polish the commutator, the shaft on the armature, the axles, the brushes...on AF I polish the insides of the brush plates. Think about it like this. In the car world we polish cranks, intakes and other surfaces we want smooth running and more HP. Add a little oil while assembling and everything runs better. My 287 AF...creeping wasnt a option. I can crack the throttle a little bit and it creeps now. I hope this will help.
Greetings 33%er! I seen others mention that but with the cold up here, none of my outfits would start so I had to use what I could thaw out :-)
@@classicmodeltrains I get that. I am in central IL and it dropped into the -12 range and things got frozen here. Like my battery in my Suburban. But, its 10 years old. Interstate battery. It only had a 45 month warranty. LOL
Hey Ron, i like the Blue Box engines too but they are a bit noisy. I have found that after cleaning all the gears and motor putting in plastic compatible white grease in the gear boxes and oiling all the bearings it does quiet down alot. However, If you speed them up they get noisy again and the motor must sit square on the chassis, they don't have much room with the body on and any contact with the body will cause a vibration hum. Slow is better!
Sounds pretty good to me Henry :-)
As one of the old guys think first train set when I was a baby in 1961, my uncle burned out the engine . when I bought my first Athearn back in 1973 or so (SW-7) the trick was to run the loco 5 minutes each direction as fast as it would go then 5 minutes again at half the speed then 5 minutes at the slowest speed it would keep moving . Did that with every loco they all ran well and would go slow enough that I could count the ties on the brass train set track on the kitchen floor . Years later took them out oiled with LaBelle and tried them out on freshly cleaned brass track still worked . Wish I still had them (long story don't need to tell). The old blue boxes might growl but they don't seem to die easily. Just my 2cents for whatever it worth.
Thanks for the 2 cents worth. I enjoy reading other modelers stories!!
Tune that bad boy, I think you and some other RUclipsrs need a loco drag racing competition.😮😂😊
Locomotive pulling competitions like the tractor pulls!!
@classicmodeltrains I was thinking more of upping the volts to like double on a long track say 25 metres and see the top speed, 2 12v car batteries linked - to + between them would give you some amps and 25 volts probably or just by a old gauge 1 controller. Then, just get a speedo of some description to measure the top speed. I think it would be hilariously great. Ask people to send in their own locos, and you can have a Top Gear leader board. Anyway, my friend, I hope I might have given you an idea. 18.5 metres would be a scale mile in 1/87.
Great video again Mr . Ron , thank you . I guessed the girl from Alfred Hitchcock's movie where the birds pecked her eyes out and she didn't make no more movies after that cuz she didn't have no eyes ?
Thank you and I believe you've heard a bit of a rumor. There were many pictures I could have chose to show her. Some were when she was older and both them eyes are still there ;-)
I'm so glad to hear that . Thankyou for your videos for sure .@@classicmodeltrains
love your content and your editing is on point. I may suggest can you please invest in a better camera. your normal shots are fine but when you zoom in on your table shots and such we loose definition and it's hard to see the details on these lovely engines you restore. I think a higher definition camera would help with that. They are expensive, but I think it would really elevate your production value.
Thanks for your kind words. About there camera, I'm shooting with an iPhone 8 HD at 30 fps. It does have the ability to shoot in 4K. But those file sizes are very large. When I use the iMovie editor I am using the software to do the "zoom-in's" which of course create a 200% digital zoom and becomes grainy. The camera is about 26" above my work surface. I agree the real tight zooms do look grainy. If the channel created more revenue a new camera purchase would be in order. Do you have any suggestions on upgraded equipment?
Ron, assuming there are no gears slipping on axles inside the locomotive, I think something changed the friction characteristics of the track/wheels. The things you did to reduce friction in the locomotive shouldn’t have caused your engine to slip its wheels on the 3% grade when it could pull the grade before. I think you said you cleaned the grade test track. Sometimes a sticky film forms on the rails and that might have aided traction during your baseline test, but not been there when you tested the ‘super tuned’ engine. Just a thought. Polishing the drive wheels may also have made them a bit more slippery on the re-test. Just about all of the tuning improvements made good sense to me. I think the 5 db noise reduction, much lower creep voltage, and slightly lower current draw show the super tune efforts paid off. Nice video.
Thanks. I believe it was polishing the sintered iron wheels that caused it to loose traction.
U can chuck those wheels up in a drill and use the drill like a lathe and the wheel can spin as u use the polisher
Dang good idea!!
Ron, if you can, swap out those Athearn wheel sets from another Blue Box locomotive and try those unpolished wheels. I’d wager that those sintered wheels will provide much more traction if unpolished. I’d say the balance of your Super-Tune efforts worked. I’ve never seen a Blue Box engine roll so smoothly.
Yup, I will never polish sintered wheels again. Lessons learned in this vid for sure
I have several blue box locos from the mid 90s they still run although a bit noisy but I love the buzzing motors they just keep on running I do lubricate them from time to time but those motors are meant to run like that
Yup! run till the end of time
Great video and funny. Athearns are just noisy. I make my own drive shafts using rubber hose helps with the noise a little
Thanks Norman, and if rubber hose helps out just a bit that's just a bit more than before so sounds good to me
Ron: I replace the noisy Athearn motors with a Kato can motor with hex flywheels and add the hex drive-lines. I also install the newer and narrower truck gears using Labelle light synth oil for the lube. Smoother, quieter, better creep, less current draw... ready for DCC.
Sounds pretty good to me!!
Why spend all that much Vance?
Ron, great video. One observation, when you were adjusting the flywheels and running the motor I could see lateral motion of the motor shaft, maybe the addition of a few extra thrust washers would smooth out the motor. Also I wonder how much the drive shafts and universal joints contribute to the noise. When you were doing your grade test with the trucks (no motor)I didn't notice gear noise so I think the gears are not the issue. I think it's possible that the flywheels not being true is the major source of your noise and obvious vibration.
Thank you Roger and I think as you do, the motor is really noisy. A upgraded can motor would really quiet this thing down. Some guys just willy nilly drill holes in the flywheels to try and balance them. You need something like a tire balancing machine but smaller to really true up them flywheels.
@@classicmodeltrains Ron great learning experience for all! I'm wondering if it isn't a slightly bent motor shaft or slightly off centered hole bore in the flywheel? I also looked up graphite, it appears to be a fairly good conductor of electricity and probably not a good thing to lubricate an electric motor with. I think maybe that's why you had issues on first run before you went through with the oiler. Apparently graphite is the material most commonly used in DC motor brushes. We live and we learn, I never would have looked it up until I saw you had trouble running after the tune up. Again thanks for the great work, love your videos.
I’ve been watching for a month or so, gone thru a bunch of your videos, I have a tip for you and it’s cool because it involves fire. Get a little butane torch, “crack torch”, and some tweezers. Hold your motor brushes with your tweezers and hit them with the torch until they are cherry red, it won’t take long. Now your brush has all or the oil and grime cooked out of it some say it anneals it, some say it hardens it. IDK?, makes them run better in slot cars. If you want to get nutty we can break out the poising tool and balance the arms and flywheels…
Sounds like a good technique to me. Weird how Fellers cant all decide if it makes them hard or soft. They set pretty soft as is. dont want them hard because it will chew down the commutator.
I would advise against listening to those Armchair engineers who pass on bad and useless advice based on what Papa or Grampa told them. The only ttruth was using toothpaste or an abrasive compound in the gears to break them in, aside from that good ol' Superlube and some labelle 107 for HO or 108 for N, it does make a difference too. We used mystery oil back in the day as it was cheaper and also CAM2 wheel bearing grease (Which still works well). The big weights they sold for the Geeps and F7's really help out with traction effort although make them a tad top hvy and can flip over on faster turns as we crazy kids discovered lol. All in all you don't have to do much with Athearns and they run solid and perform just fine. Yeah the loud runners can be a mild annoyance but it's far better than all that 'Ding Ding, Whoo Whoo" crap DCC engines make. I can run these in the basement layout without waking the Wife no matter how much they grind lol.
There is lots of Armchair "everything" out there that have a large bullhorn it seems ;-)
@@classicmodeltrains Yes lol I admit I offer advice when I see someone who really needs another point of view, but if they are happy with the results then that's the important part. Sadly too many insist on doing somethings the hard way or even a bad way and are impervious to help of any kind. I'm all about all of us helping the hobbies to not only grow but flourish. Especially train and model kits. I come off brash but that's my age and years of patience wearing thin lol Grumpy old man now I guess.
@@animalyze7120 I reread your comment and found nothing brash about it. Your Just sharing some good information learned from many years of experience. No worries Sir :-)
6:33 I believe that is called "lapping the gears" and is all the rage on the slot car forums and such, where performance is paramount.
Yup, I agree
It's your High School Year Book picture. Can't fool ME !
:-/
Have found that stripping the bogies and cleaning/ washing all gears in shellite,then scraping the centre holes to remove burrs,then oiling during assembly lessens friction.The motor can be removed and cleaned,then bearings oiled,then run for hours if necessary to bed it Also check motor shaft for too much or too little play.
Sounds like good practices to me Dennis!!
You could try Labelle 134 powdered lubricant - it has a needle applicator.
Also perhaps you could have tested performance after tuning but before adding weight for comparison.
All great idea's!
Hi Ron, You could try to drill out from the flywheels to get rid of vibrations.
Hello Tony, Ive seen a Feller do that but the problem is your have to know where to remove the weight from. Its like balancing tires. They dont just pound a weight on willy nilly. There is a way to find out exactly where it needs it. Because of this I decided not to randomly drill holes in the flywheel (s)
Hey Ron, One suggestion: Get the sound meter out of contact with the table. I think you're getting far more noise through the table transmitting it directly to the meter than you actually hear. And the dB scale is always hard to compare to anyway. 10 db change is 2X the sound power. 73 dB is a crowded restaurant or bar, or a vacuum cleaner at 10 ft. 78 dB is a blender for your margaritas. 80 dB is the edge of hearing damage for prolonged exposure.
Try using an ap on your phone held in your hand just above your meter on the table and see the difference.
FWIW, my ap is showing my "silent" background noise level at 46 dB. The only thing I have going at the moment is my very quiet computer fan.
Be well!
I did sound reinforcement for many years. While your statement is a good one, as long as I tested the same in both instances all I was looking for was a drop in dB. Yes twice the power to gain 3db in volume. Cost me a lot of money to get my PA to do 120dB at F.O.H. mix position (100' away). :-)
I have never ever added oil to any athearn locomotives. All I do to clean the comutater is a brush with lacquer thinner in both directions. Add LaBelle 106 grease to the gears and send it on its way. Never have a problem in 35 years. I always replace the contact strip with wire as well and get rid of that bulb.
Thanks for the input Stewart!!
Clover lapping compound might work better to get gears meshed better.
It would but not a lot of fellers have that laying around. I was attempting to use stuff that might be laying around the house for most people :-)
1. if gear on axle is slipping I use loctite to fix that..
2. a brass washer(s) on the worm gear shaft between gear and brass square bearing tightens the fit and reduces significant noise.
Sounds like good ideas to me!!
I wonder if the "bullfrog snot" would help on the incline test? I haven't used that stuff but keep seeing videos on it and curious how well it actually works. Maybe you could do a video on that?
BFS is a joke. Ive seen it applied before and its shit. Never had a problem finding the correct traction tire / o-ring for any locomotive yet. I'm an old school mechanic that has yet to see "mechanic in a bottle" work on anything. I effed up the sintered iron wheels by polishing them. Lessons learned the hard way are the best remembered :-)
5 decibels is actually quite significant. Humans generally perceive a 10dB drop as about half the volume (talking perceived volume, not voltage or watts in a sound system). I think that running it in circles for a while will probably help the gears break in a bit.
About the tractive effort, I agree that the culprit was probably polishing the wheels rather than just cleaning them. I've often wondered if sanding with fine grit sandpaper perpendicular to the treads might increase traction a bit, but I don't have a locomotive disposable enough to try it on. If you really want to go to extremes, even weight distribution between the two trucks is actually very important and was one of the main problems EMD addressed with the HT-C truck. In that case, the problem was weight shifting under load since locomotives like to shift as they pull. For an example, look at a GP7 or 9 hopping around as it tries to start a long cut of cars. You'd think it was a 737 trying to get off the ground!
Thanks for the input Erick. I do know that for a 3db increase from a sound system it takes twice the wattage. Of course this is for the big azz concert systems. I agree the polishing of the sintered iron wheels killed the traction of them.
Gears Eric? What about the gears, need to be broken in exactly?
Could you use something like Bullfrog Snot to put traction tires on one pair of wheels?
I find bullfrog snot to be a joke on the models out there. There is no liquid miracle in a jar. Just my opinion though :-)
O and if you decide to loctite the wheels to the gears I forgot to mention to use the NMRA Guage to insure proper spacing of the flanges.! !
Of course :-)