Thanks so much for uploading. I came to Sydney in 1972 from London, I felt like I had stepped back in time. I was 18 and couldn't believe these old trains and the fact these seats were vinyl and you could actually go along with the doors open. I was used to more modern stuff and all the trains in London were 25kv apart from the Southern third rail. Well I traveled on these trains right up to the last days of them and they were not in summer and cold in winter. I loved the sound of them and I loved the old diamond pantographs. I didn't like the scissor arm pans they used on them. I do miss them, I used to like sitting over the powered bogie so I could hear the wonderful sound of DC traction motors. I can't believe I have been here 50 years now and how much has changed. I can still remember the old Bradfield cars. Nice footage of the 46s too. In the UK the 1500DC out of Liverpool Street had been converted to AC in November 1960 but the Sheffield to Manchester route remained until 1981 and then the lined closed, sadly I always wanted to see it but never did The old DC lines always fascinated me. I think it's an absolute disgrace that they got rid of the Class 86s I think what Sydney need is dual voltage locos and convert some of the lines to 25kv like over the mountains and the main north.
Just a brief reply, Sydney never had the passenger density of Britain, fares have always been much cheaper, and governments would rather spend money on roads which would explain old trains lasting longer here, as you have probably since deduced. As your northern 25KV was converted much later than the 1926 of Sydney, this naturally gave you newer trains. Sydney trains never had scissors pantographs unless you are referring to the few that got single armed versions. I agree about the 86 class disgrace, but two factors against them were the inconvenience of having to change locomotives at Broadmeadow and Lithgow, not help at all by the operators being charged access fees to the overhead wire on top of the electricity used, and track access fees. It was simply cheaper to use diesel. Another dodgy benefit of privatisation.
@@tressteleg1 the scissor pantographs I refer to are the ones on the first double deckers and interurban. Yes a shame about the electric locos and how I loved seeing the class 46 class in Maroon livery Your right about density. The first Tulloch double deck trailer cars were designed by my late Father in law Roy Leembruggen. Whilst I love the new stuff simply because of air conditioning the old rattlers had character. I must get to travel on the Victorian Tait set. Very querky looking and that is the attraction I think.
While I believe the DD trains have been a boon to Sydney, they are utilitarian so the types of pantographs did not bother me much either way. Interesting about your family connection with the Tullochs. The 46 class were great locos and I did get a few cab rides and even a short drive of one in a siding once. As for the Tait, it is due to be doing its first public rides on the Pakenham line on 23 April. I may go down for that. As you like the sounds of the single deckers, you may like to watch this video which has not yet been made public. Be sure to use good speakers or headphones turned up fairly loud. Let me know what you think of it. Driver's View + Controls & Motor Sounds F1 Redfern to Strathfield ruclips.net/video/KJnfFYgGdZc/видео.html
How lucky we viewers are that you captured these unforgettable scenes and were generous enough to share them with us all decades later. I am so grateful. Thank you.
+John Leonard Thank you for your kind words, John. Comments like yours make the preparation for posting worth the effort. I just wish I had taken more. Hopefully you will find some of my upcoming overseas videos of interest also.
It looked pretty enough when fresh, but soon got stained by the pantograph gunk which rolled down the carriages on wet days. However the half double deck train W3 has very recently been overhauled and re-painted with one double deck carriage in sparkling blue and white. If it has no mechanical conditions that cannot be readily repaired, W3 should be unveiled to the public sometime during the year.
I guess you would have known Brian Burke. I think the whole system knew him! Around your time I did quite a fair bit of unofficial driving of his trains, not often caught on video but you will hear his voice giving me a drive of one of the very last ‘red rattlers’ across the Harbour Bridge. So sad that he only lived a few years into retirement. Sly Drives of Electric Trains. Melbourne, Sydney, London. ruclips.net/video/dR8gZ9tJeyI/видео.html
Thanks Phil. No point these videos going to the grave with me. But the supply of vintage Aussie transport video is drying up fast. Just saw your latest F1 video. Great! Try to remember to date your videos. It does not matter much now, but in 20 years time it will be very important - Believe Me!
at the 3:10 mark looks like cityrail didn't care much about how trains looked, blue and white carriage mixed with two different colours of red carriages , what a mixed bag, don't get me wrong I love these old trains
No, carriage colours meant nothing and B & W was dropped before the majority of carriages were repainted. Colours were just mixed randomly. There was a fan tour made up of a purely blue and white set which may have lasted a few days in regular traffic, but I think that was the only time one existed
This has been a lovely trip down memory lane. Was on my way to work one day when our train broke down just short of Redfern station. You have no idea how high the doors were above the tracks until you have to work out how to get down in a ladylike way without hurting yourself. I finally got down, sat in the doorway with my legs dangling over & asked the first bloke I saw to help me down. It worked.
I remember the day a service broke down in the tunnels and another service 8 car train pushed it or pulled it across the harbour bridge and cleared the breakdown making a 16 car lashup
Long live the red rattlers, definitely one of the iconic form of transport history in Sydney (if not Australia). Many memories of childhood standing at the open doorway feeling the breeze blowing through as the train trundles from station to station and how many times have I seen it someone running from the platform into the train as it’s moving. The sort of thing you just doesn’t happen anymore.
All of us who wrote those red sets recall standing near the open doors as the trains raced along. People knew how to look after themselves in those days and comparatively very few people ever had a misadventure.
You’ve just refreshed my tired old memory of running, jumping & grabbing one of the metal supports (hand rails?) as the train was leaving. No one had a go at you about safety. It was just normal on Sydney trains. & by god were they either hot hot hot or freezing. Good memories. Thanks for reminding me.
Good work thanks big time now these were the days when a train was a train not like the glamorous nothing's today once again thanks RUclips THIS VIDIO MUST GO INTO THE HERITAGE LIST NEVER TO BE DELETED PURE GOLD
The older trains certainly did have character! Don’t miss Part 2, Petersham Station, Fast Electric Parcel Vans and Unusual Electric Train Tours. Tassiebaz also has some similar videos. And you can always download any RUclips video to keep forever yourself.
+James French Modern trains lack character and are 'all the same'. Form more great video of the single deckers in daily use, see the new Videos from 'tassiebaz' on RUclips.
@@tressteleg1 The commisioner came from British Rail and the government here formed the PTC combining the trains, ferries and buses which were all painted blue and white. It lasted maybe 5-10 years before being divided again into UTA, SR etc. and the colors put back. I remember a 46 class loco painted and they were rarely washed so it looked very neglected due to staining. The colors selection couldn't have been any worse. I was working at perway 1 chullora in 1974.
Love the red rattlers! Thanks for showing us the experience of being inside one of them. Would love to see more from the riders point of view from the old single level trains. Have so many fond memories of them from the 60’s and 70’s growing up in Sydney. Hope to visit just to ride the trains in Sydney again! You guys have a world class system. I’m writing from California where trains are considered an east coast thing and not to be taken seriously. We have freeways and traffic jams and car chases!
Unfortunately my supply of Vintage Sydney video and film is almost exhausted but next Friday I expect to post some interesting electric train tours in the 60s and 70s. It took some time for parts of the US to realise that trains are the way to go. At least the LA light rail, Sand Diego etc are helping a lot. I was in LA for the first day of the Blue Line but have not posted any video of that. You would not want to drive in Sydney any more. It’s getting towards 12 or more hours of peak traffic every day. And the trains apparently are overloaded at times also. Can’t keep up.
@clivemungovan8859 I’m pleased you liked it. If you have not yet seen it, here is Part 2, taken on the last few days of those trains being in service. Single Deck Electric Trains Pt 2 ruclips.net/video/GR5C3Q1U2f8/видео.html
No Dave, the power cars with 4 motors each - Sydney Interurbans,, 1955 power cars, C7000 conversions, Taits and Harris trains (and all modern trains) slip very much less as the power is applied to double the number of wheels. I have a lot of stereo sound recordings of the Sydney cars and some of Taits. Maybe I could do some 'Sound Only' videos for RUclips.
There’s something special about an eight car single deck red rattler. I don’t know exactly what though. I used to catch these to school and into the city on the East Hills line. Changing trains at Central meant keep a lookout for the three lights in a triangle on the front. It’s all coming back to me as I watch. The smell of the brakes in the City Circle. The heat of summer in the Western Suburbs coming off the track. Wow, this video is magnificent. Thank you very much for uploading it. I loved it from beginning to end. The sound from inside the carriage and the slipping wheels in the wet. It has opened up many memories of a simpler time! Best regards, Mike
I’m really pleased that this video has brought back so many happy memories for you. They certainly had a character lacking in all newer trains, especially with sounds. The hateful name of red rattler was applied to them by media in just their last 2 or so years of service. Fans now call them Red Sets 😊. The 3 lights was the code for the East Hills line so that signal boxes knew where to set the points. The various combinations of the 3 top lights an one down the bottom, driver’s side I think, sufficed for all the lines.
Loved that last train; large guards trailer in the middle and all two-motor C cars doing the work. Often you'd get trains like these come into the sheds with a faulty motor car that often required almost a complete remarshal to get the guard in the middle or exactly between the fourth and fifth position. By the time you'd taken this video there were still a few Large Guards Trailers that had not had overhauls since the sixties and they were pretty daggy for the guard to work from. That compressor in 3249 was a Mitsubishi type common to all of the DD sets then in service. They were noisy but gave high delivery of air. They tended to have poor mechanical reliability, literally falling to bits in some instances. The problem the railways had then was basically it was an operating museum. Those old single Deckers had been flogged to death for sixty years and the supply of new original parts was fast evaporating. Successive governments of both political persuasions tended to sweep under the carpet the issue of continuous equipment upgrades for the suburban network and indeed the network itself which was way behind the growth of the population and its transport requirements. I liked the message at the end where that train got less time than the modern ones for the same distance! Dwell times at busy stations are horrendously long now with the system the way it is. I had occasion to use a train from Town Hall to Eastwood but I couldn't even get onto the platform due to the crowds. I ended up getting the bus instead.
Thanks for all those observations. Besides the conversion of some 3000s to 7000s, some motorcars were fitted with new bogies using the old motor and axle wheel sets. This was because passenger growth was growing faster than the supply of new trains, and as you say, keeping the red sets in service long after management wish they were gone thus the new bogies. I did not know about the Mitsubishi compressor failures but Japanese quality was not so good in earlier times. Nevertheless we are lucky they lasted beyond 1984 when I got my first video camera. It seems that not many fans were taking videos that early.
And I don’t often buy books these days but did buy the interesting one on Sydney’s electric trains by Geoff Moss. The 7000 type in fact had motors of 190 hp so were slightly stronger. Two factors I believe were behind the conversions. When steel brake shoes were replaced by Ferrodos these polished the wheels rather than roughed them up which means the driving wheels had worse grip on the rails. Sometimes on a wet day a set coming from Cronulla would be stopped on the grade into Sutherland and became disabled and could not advance further, probably due to one dead power car. Also I gather the heavier double deck trailers were more difficult to haul when loaded. Getting stuck on the harbour bridge northbound between the tunnel mouth and crest of the bridge was not uncommon either. A couple of 7000 cars in a train with double decks would have helped a lot with those difficulties. A train of 7000 motors could be fitted with four double deck trailers, rather than the usual two. I’m not sure about that reasoning regarding choice of one power bogie instead of two. All the power cars were built with electrification in mind. My thought is that purchase and maintenance would have been considered cheaper with two motors. The borrowing of two Melbourne power bogies and fitting them under a Sydney car, obviously with standard gauge wheel sets,, was known to me but they must have had some good reason for not going with that option which in retrospect would have been better.
You sure the HP figure is 190? I worked at ETR for 11 years. I used to see those motors being changed and almost everyone involved, including ETR engineers, in that area told me they were rated at 180hp. The H bogies they were mounted on weren't the best for the brake examiners with the brake rigging being a nightmare to work on. Early on there was a problem with the brakes where the main pull rod from the brake cylinder was snapping at a weld at the cylinder end. Once that happened the car was completely without brakes. I haven't checked the tare weights for the Tulloch DD trailers but I do know they were lighter than a standard single deck trailer which from memory was around 48 tons. I recall the instructions for use of these cars on the single deck sets which was no more than one per four car set where both motors were 3000 type. Generally we adhered to this rule with the M sets when marshalling trains but sometimes if it meant getting a set into traffic any motor was built into it. Many drivers used to complain about the poor braking of sets containing Tulloch DD trailers. The Tullochs were fitted with TR type bogies that had two brake cylinders per bogie. The slack adjusters had to be adjusted by fitters on a raised pit, not by brake examiners as was usually the case. This lead to extended periods between servicing meaning braking efficiency was often lower on these cars. I had personal experience of this one day when after dropping a Tulloch at the top of a road during a car change the brakes wouldn't hold the car after the air was drained and the hand brake had very little strength!
I checked again and Moss certainly has written 190HP. I looked it up as I thought it was 200. He says there are MV 149AZ. I accept that until somebody sends me a photo a builder’s plate showing otherwise. Thanks for your other interesting information. With other RUclips preparation to do, I don’t have time to reply in detail to all comments. One observation about Tulloch double deck trailer brakes in the early days is that I recall most of those cars had wheel flats which almost certainly were the result of brakes being too strong. Maybe they modified the brakes to have less force in order to stop the wheel flats, but who knows now?
Oh my goodness tressteleg1.......the wonderful sounds of those traction motors / wheel spins (especially in those wet conditions), music to the ears for some. I'm guessing that Melbourne's iconic Harris and possibly Tait's cars / sets were renowned for similar behaviour and sounds back in the day?
Wow memories there with the ole Red Rattlers ..best part of the trip if in summertime was standing near the open doors at each end with a beautiful breeze running through the train ( no Aircon) lol
Well, you could say the open doors were the air con... And it was a rather rare event for someone to fall or be pushed out of an open door. The way officials panic over people standing over the yellow lines on platforms is laughable to us older people.
The HET group which is restoring vintage electric trains at Redfern has recently completed repainting set W3 and it includes one blue and white double decker. Hopefully it will be giving rides later in the year. “Rattler” was a disgusting derogatory term coined by the media in just the last few years of the single deck operation.To the general fans and public, trains were simply Double Deckers or Single Deckers.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks! I meant no offence. Those double deckers in maroon (or some of those painted dull silver, not stainless steel) is not a C, or K, or S set?
@@Woodland26 I realise that. I’m just trying to inform younger viewers that the term was never used in Sydney, that I ever heard anyway, until after 1987. When double deck trailers first appeared, they were painted red to match the single deck trains with which they ran. Then when the DD motors first came out, they were also painted red. Some time later, new trains were left in raw silver stainless steel, and when single deckers were phased out, their DD trailers were painted grey to sort-of match the DD silver motors which they were paired up with. The red DD motors had the red paint stripped off. The grey trailers would only ever have worked in S sets until scrapped.
@@tressteleg1 Can you solve my final mystery on those blue and white carriages, are they same age as the red carriage or even older? Is it just a colour scheme change? In this clip there appeared in a few different occasions.
@@Woodland26 Nothing to do with age. Carriages of all ages got these colours, but no effort was made to keep all the blue and white cars in the same trains. I think t was the 1970s that a Mr Shirley from Britain became the boss of the NSW railways, and decided upon this scheme to brighten up the railways. The main problem is that the muck which washed off the roofs below the pantographs was much more visible on those colours than the red. Eventually Shirley was gone, and gradually the colours disappeared too.
I used to love these old girls, B&B the bars used to make good warm-up poles on the way to work. Yes! That kind of work, Hey, I was a young dumb little girl, and it paid the bills. Seems like a million years ago today!
John signing off for the day , at Punchbowl Car Sheds . Nice inclusion . A scene that reenacts it's self daily , throughout smoko sheds of the working class , every where . Fourty years ago . A millisecond of time .
+John Smith in 1970 the NSW Public Transport Commission was set up, the Chief Commissioner being Phillip Shirley, formerly of British Rail. Repainting the entire suburban rail fleet in blue and white was his idea. That job was never finished and upon his resignation the red colour returned.
Thank you for the reply and thank you once again for all the footage you have shared. In all it's great to see the F1 Red Set make a return for heritage trip. Fingers crossed that perhaps some of the other cars (C3102 + T4554 and any others HET/SRA may have will return, along with W3.
tressteleg1 I always wanted to know that! I can’t remember if I ever saw an eight car single deck train in all blue and white. Am I imagining things or did they exist?
The blue and white colours were introduced by a rail ?Chief Commissioner called Phillip Shirley. Nice when fresh, but showed pantograph muck after rain rather well! Except for a special tour train, there appeared to be no attempt to marshal them all together. Maybe a form of protest.
Some 3000 power cars got 4 motors in two new bogies and became the 7000 type, some got new bogies frames with old motors and trucks but I believe no other Red SETS modifications were made, electrically at least, apart from new voltage regulators.
When a red rattler came in for overhaul at ELCAR; the motor control contactors would be removed and replaced with new Mitsubishi contactors. Which type/s I am not sure of
I’m always interested to learn something new so looked at Geoff Moss’ book Sydney electric Trains but saw no mention of any conversion. So I would like to know where you came by this information.
Interesting thanks. Do you think many got done? Were they all upgraded or just those in the worst condition? I know that for many years they were robbing Peter to pay Paul. The weak field contactors were the first to be reallocated.
I have lived at Miranda for forty years. I still remember the noise of the red rattlers going up grade to Sutherland. It sure was a nightmare on a wet day with a packed train.with wheel slip. Quite a few times I walked from Gymea to Kirrawee because the train blew a couple of motors. I never missed the old rattler.
Nice video of older trains that served Sydney well
Thank you for posting this.😀😀
👍
@@tressteleg1 😀
10:50 cheeky skid
😊😄
Thanks so much for uploading.
I came to Sydney in 1972 from London, I felt like I had stepped back in time.
I was 18 and couldn't believe these old trains and the fact these seats were vinyl and you could actually go along with the doors open.
I was used to more modern stuff and all the trains in London were 25kv apart from the Southern third rail.
Well I traveled on these trains right up to the last days of them and they were not in summer and cold in winter.
I loved the sound of them and I loved the old diamond pantographs.
I didn't like the scissor arm pans they used on them.
I do miss them, I used to like sitting over the powered bogie so I could hear the wonderful sound of DC traction motors.
I can't believe I have been here 50 years now and how much has changed.
I can still remember the old Bradfield cars.
Nice footage of the 46s too.
In the UK the 1500DC out of Liverpool Street had been converted to AC in November 1960 but the Sheffield to Manchester route remained until 1981 and then the lined closed, sadly I always wanted to see it but never did
The old DC lines always fascinated me.
I think it's an absolute disgrace that they got rid of the Class 86s
I think what Sydney need is dual voltage locos and convert some of the lines to 25kv like over the mountains and the main north.
Just a brief reply, Sydney never had the passenger density of Britain, fares have always been much cheaper, and governments would rather spend money on roads which would explain old trains lasting longer here, as you have probably since deduced. As your northern 25KV was converted much later than the 1926 of Sydney, this naturally gave you newer trains. Sydney trains never had scissors pantographs unless you are referring to the few that got single armed versions.
I agree about the 86 class disgrace, but two factors against them were the inconvenience of having to change locomotives at Broadmeadow and Lithgow, not help at all by the operators being charged access fees to the overhead wire on top of the electricity used, and track access fees. It was simply cheaper to use diesel. Another dodgy benefit of privatisation.
@@tressteleg1 the scissor pantographs I refer to are the ones on the first double deckers and interurban.
Yes a shame about the electric locos and how I loved seeing the class 46 class in Maroon livery
Your right about density.
The first Tulloch double deck trailer cars were designed by my late Father in law Roy Leembruggen.
Whilst I love the new stuff simply because of air conditioning the old rattlers had character.
I must get to travel on the Victorian Tait set.
Very querky looking and that is the attraction I think.
While I believe the DD trains have been a boon to Sydney, they are utilitarian so the types of pantographs did not bother me much either way. Interesting about your family connection with the Tullochs. The 46 class were great locos and I did get a few cab rides and even a short drive of one in a siding once.
As for the Tait, it is due to be doing its first public rides on the Pakenham line on 23 April. I may go down for that.
As you like the sounds of the single deckers, you may like to watch this video which has not yet been made public. Be sure to use good speakers or headphones turned up fairly loud. Let me know what you think of it.
Driver's View + Controls & Motor Sounds F1 Redfern to Strathfield
ruclips.net/video/KJnfFYgGdZc/видео.html
@@tressteleg1 that video was brilliant.
Trains are so sterile today
The old ones had bucket loads of character
Totally agree!
How lucky we viewers are that you captured these unforgettable scenes and were generous enough to share them with us all decades later. I am so grateful. Thank you.
+John Leonard Thank you for your kind words, John. Comments like yours make the preparation for posting worth the effort. I just wish I had taken more. Hopefully you will find some of my upcoming overseas videos of interest also.
3:05 - I had completely forgotten the blue and white colour scheme, I liked it!
It looked pretty enough when fresh, but soon got stained by the pantograph gunk which rolled down the carriages on wet days.
However the half double deck train W3 has very recently been overhauled and re-painted with one double deck carriage in sparkling blue and white. If it has no mechanical conditions that cannot be readily repaired, W3 should be unveiled to the public sometime during the year.
Fair dinkum, the year I was born that footage. Excellent stuff mate.
You missed out on a lot, but will plenty after I’m gone…
Great. I drove from 1979 to 1988. Hornsby depot. How much I miss those red rattlers😁
I guess you would have known Brian Burke. I think the whole system knew him! Around your time I did quite a fair bit of unofficial driving of his trains, not often caught on video but you will hear his voice giving me a drive of one of the very last ‘red rattlers’ across the Harbour Bridge. So sad that he only lived a few years into retirement.
Sly Drives of Electric Trains. Melbourne, Sydney, London.
ruclips.net/video/dR8gZ9tJeyI/видео.html
Brings back so many fond memories of a by gone era . All I need is the smell of the brakes........
👍
Mate this is gold!
Thank you for sharing this :)
Thanks Phil. No point these videos going to the grave with me. But the supply of vintage Aussie transport video is drying up fast.
Just saw your latest F1 video. Great! Try to remember to date your videos. It does not matter much now, but in 20 years time it will be very important - Believe Me!
I completely agree
Lavender Bay wow
Those were the days my friends
at the 3:10 mark looks like cityrail didn't care much about how trains looked, blue and white carriage mixed with two different colours of red carriages , what a mixed bag, don't get me wrong I love these old trains
No, carriage colours meant nothing and B & W was dropped before the majority of carriages were repainted. Colours were just mixed randomly. There was a fan tour made up of a purely blue and white set which may have lasted a few days in regular traffic, but I think that was the only time one existed
This has been a lovely trip down memory lane. Was on my way to work one day when our train broke down just short of Redfern station. You have no idea how high the doors were above the tracks until you have to work out how to get down in a ladylike way without hurting yourself. I finally got down, sat in the doorway with my legs dangling over & asked the first bloke I saw to help me down. It worked.
Nice story! But it sounds like you never lived happily ever after with Sir Galahad ☹️
Milsons point was my station
I remember the day a service broke down in the tunnels and another service 8 car train pushed it or pulled it across the harbour bridge and cleared the breakdown making a 16 car lashup
@@simonburns1055 Yes it happened from time to time. Luckily the second train added to some power from the first usually cleared the blockage.
Just brilliant as usual mate, thanks so much for sharing some more wonderful old railway memories around Sydney, cheers Dave
That shot was on the suburban timetable dated 1966 i think
Great footage!
👍
Long live the red rattlers, definitely one of the iconic form of transport history in Sydney (if not Australia).
Many memories of childhood standing at the open doorway feeling the breeze blowing through as the train trundles from station to station and how many times have I seen it someone running from the platform into the train as it’s moving.
The sort of thing you just doesn’t happen anymore.
All of us who wrote those red sets recall standing near the open doors as the trains raced along. People knew how to look after themselves in those days and comparatively very few people ever had a misadventure.
You’ve just refreshed my tired old memory of running, jumping & grabbing one of the metal supports (hand rails?) as the train was leaving. No one had a go at you about safety. It was just normal on Sydney trains. & by god were they either hot hot hot or freezing. Good memories. Thanks for reminding me.
Good work thanks big time now these were the days when a train was a train not like the glamorous nothing's today once again thanks RUclips THIS VIDIO MUST GO INTO THE HERITAGE LIST NEVER TO BE DELETED PURE GOLD
The older trains certainly did have character! Don’t miss Part 2, Petersham Station, Fast Electric Parcel Vans and Unusual Electric Train Tours. Tassiebaz also has some similar videos. And you can always download any RUclips video to keep forever yourself.
Wonderful memories , thanks for uploading, lived in Sydney from 1971-5 and used these trains a lot. see other comments in part2. Ian H. Newquay UK.
Awesome video, love these old trains
V set would outrun a single deck for sure
Those sounds should still be with us. Sydney had become hectic and uptight since those much more laid back days.Such handsome and iconic trains.
+James French
Modern trains lack character and are 'all the same'.
Form more great video of the single deckers in daily use, see the new Videos from 'tassiebaz' on RUclips.
+tressteleg1 I will, thanks.
The blue and white paint schemes,PTC NSW, introduced by the first commissioner in 1972.
Think it was fairly quickly abandoned as it showed too much dirt from the overhead wires.
@@tressteleg1 The commisioner came from British Rail and the government here formed the PTC combining the trains, ferries and buses which were all painted blue and white. It lasted maybe 5-10 years before being divided again into UTA, SR etc. and the colors put back. I remember a 46 class loco painted and they were rarely washed so it looked very neglected due to staining. The colors selection couldn't have been any worse. I was working at perway 1 chullora in 1974.
Thanks again. I was living in the Wollongong region from 1972 so had limited contact with the electric trains in Sydney from then.
Remember the Zoo train ?
Great video of these great trains. These single deck trains are truly amazing and they don't build them like they use too.
Great memories - thanks
Love the red rattlers! Thanks for showing us the experience of being inside one of them. Would love to see more from the riders point of view from the old single level trains. Have so many fond memories of them from the 60’s and 70’s growing up in Sydney. Hope to visit just to ride the trains in Sydney again! You guys have a world class system. I’m writing from California where trains are considered an east coast thing and not to be taken seriously. We have freeways and traffic jams and car chases!
Unfortunately my supply of Vintage Sydney video and film is almost exhausted but next Friday I expect to post some interesting electric train tours in the 60s and 70s. It took some time for parts of the US to realise that trains are the way to go. At least the LA light rail, Sand Diego etc are helping a lot. I was in LA for the first day of the Blue Line but have not posted any video of that. You would not want to drive in Sydney any more. It’s getting towards 12 or more hours of peak traffic every day. And the trains apparently are overloaded at times also. Can’t keep up.
Great@@tressteleg1
@clivemungovan8859 I’m pleased you liked it. If you have not yet seen it, here is Part 2, taken on the last few days of those trains being in service.
Single Deck Electric Trains Pt 2
ruclips.net/video/GR5C3Q1U2f8/видео.html
No Dave, the power cars with 4 motors each - Sydney Interurbans,, 1955 power cars, C7000 conversions, Taits and Harris trains (and all modern trains) slip very much less as the power is applied to double the number of wheels. I have a lot of stereo sound recordings of the Sydney cars and some of Taits. Maybe I could do some 'Sound Only' videos for RUclips.
There’s something special about an eight car single deck red rattler. I don’t know exactly what though.
I used to catch these to school and into the city on the East Hills line. Changing trains at Central meant keep a lookout for the three lights in a triangle on the front. It’s all coming back to me as I watch. The smell of the brakes in the City Circle. The heat of summer in the Western Suburbs coming off the track. Wow, this video is magnificent. Thank you very much for uploading it. I loved it from beginning to end. The sound from inside the carriage and the slipping wheels in the wet. It has opened up many memories of a simpler time! Best regards, Mike
I’m really pleased that this video has brought back so many happy memories for you. They certainly had a character lacking in all newer trains, especially with sounds. The hateful name of red rattler was applied to them by media in just their last 2 or so years of service. Fans now call them Red Sets 😊. The 3 lights was the code for the East Hills line so that signal boxes knew where to set the points. The various combinations of the 3 top lights an one down the bottom, driver’s side I think, sufficed for all the lines.
Loved that last train; large guards trailer in the middle and all two-motor C cars doing the work. Often you'd get trains like these come into the sheds with a faulty motor car that often required almost a complete remarshal to get the guard in the middle or exactly between the fourth and fifth position. By the time you'd taken this video there were still a few Large Guards Trailers that had not had overhauls since the sixties and they were pretty daggy for the guard to work from. That compressor in 3249 was a Mitsubishi type common to all of the DD sets then in service. They were noisy but gave high delivery of air. They tended to have poor mechanical reliability, literally falling to bits in some instances. The problem the railways had then was basically it was an operating museum. Those old single Deckers had been flogged to death for sixty years and the supply of new original parts was fast evaporating. Successive governments of both political persuasions tended to sweep under the carpet the issue of continuous equipment upgrades for the suburban network and indeed the network itself which was way behind the growth of the population and its transport requirements. I liked the message at the end where that train got less time than the modern ones for the same distance! Dwell times at busy stations are horrendously long now with the system the way it is. I had occasion to use a train from Town Hall to Eastwood but I couldn't even get onto the platform due to the crowds. I ended up getting the bus instead.
Thanks for all those observations. Besides the conversion of some 3000s to 7000s, some motorcars were fitted with new bogies using the old motor and axle wheel sets. This was because passenger growth was growing faster than the supply of new trains, and as you say, keeping the red sets in service long after management wish they were gone thus the new bogies. I did not know about the Mitsubishi compressor failures but Japanese quality was not so good in earlier times. Nevertheless we are lucky they lasted beyond 1984 when I got my first video camera. It seems that not many fans were taking videos that early.
And I don’t often buy books these days but did buy the interesting one on Sydney’s electric trains by Geoff Moss. The 7000 type in fact had motors of 190 hp so were slightly stronger. Two factors I believe were behind the conversions. When steel brake shoes were replaced by Ferrodos these polished the wheels rather than roughed them up which means the driving wheels had worse grip on the rails. Sometimes on a wet day a set coming from Cronulla would be stopped on the grade into Sutherland and became disabled and could not advance further, probably due to one dead power car. Also I gather the heavier double deck trailers were more difficult to haul when loaded. Getting stuck on the harbour bridge northbound between the tunnel mouth and crest of the bridge was not uncommon either. A couple of 7000 cars in a train with double decks would have helped a lot with those difficulties. A train of 7000 motors could be fitted with four double deck trailers, rather than the usual two.
I’m not sure about that reasoning regarding choice of one power bogie instead of two. All the power cars were built with electrification in mind. My thought is that purchase and maintenance would have been considered cheaper with two motors.
The borrowing of two Melbourne power bogies and fitting them under a Sydney car, obviously with standard gauge wheel sets,, was known to me but they must have had some good reason for not going with that option which in retrospect would have been better.
You sure the HP figure is 190? I worked at ETR for 11 years. I used to see those motors being changed and almost everyone involved, including ETR engineers, in that area told me they were rated at 180hp. The H bogies they were mounted on weren't the best for the brake examiners with the brake rigging being a nightmare to work on. Early on there was a problem with the brakes where the main pull rod from the brake cylinder was snapping at a weld at the cylinder end. Once that happened the car was completely without brakes. I haven't checked the tare weights for the Tulloch DD trailers but I do know they were lighter than a standard single deck trailer which from memory was around 48 tons. I recall the instructions for use of these cars on the single deck sets which was no more than one per four car set where both motors were 3000 type. Generally we adhered to this rule with the M sets when marshalling trains but sometimes if it meant getting a set into traffic any motor was built into it. Many drivers used to complain about the poor braking of sets containing Tulloch DD trailers. The Tullochs were fitted with TR type bogies that had two brake cylinders per bogie. The slack adjusters had to be adjusted by fitters on a raised pit, not by brake examiners as was usually the case. This lead to extended periods between servicing meaning braking efficiency was often lower on these cars. I had personal experience of this one day when after dropping a Tulloch at the top of a road during a car change the brakes wouldn't hold the car after the air was drained and the hand brake had very little strength!
I checked again and Moss certainly has written 190HP. I looked it up as I thought it was 200. He says there are MV 149AZ. I accept that until somebody sends me a photo a builder’s plate showing otherwise.
Thanks for your other interesting information. With other RUclips preparation to do, I don’t have time to reply in detail to all comments. One observation about Tulloch double deck trailer brakes in the early days is that I recall most of those cars had wheel flats which almost certainly were the result of brakes being too strong. Maybe they modified the brakes to have less force in order to stop the wheel flats, but who knows now?
Oh my goodness tressteleg1.......the wonderful sounds of those traction motors / wheel spins (especially in those wet conditions), music to the ears for some. I'm guessing that Melbourne's iconic Harris and possibly Tait's cars / sets were renowned for similar behaviour and sounds back in the day?
Thanks for the great video. Sydney trains are too boring now.
Unfortunately all more recent trains anywhere entirely lack character. They are just electronic boxes which often make weird sounds.
Why the lone blue car within the red sets?
I see reply below, red or ochre is much better colour
They use what cars they have for a run so they can cope with passenger numbers also they use others services to move individual cars
Wow memories there with the ole Red Rattlers ..best part of the trip if in summertime was standing near the open doors at each end with a beautiful breeze running through the train ( no Aircon) lol
Well, you could say the open doors were the air con... And it was a rather rare event for someone to fall or be pushed out of an open door. The way officials panic over people standing over the yellow lines on platforms is laughable to us older people.
Thanks for your memories. We were not, rapped in cotton wool in those days and nobody much seemed to get hurt.
Indian being hauled by electrics
thank you for confirming my memories that there were blue and white train carriages. What do you call the red double decker? "Double rattlers?" ;)
The HET group which is restoring vintage electric trains at Redfern has recently completed repainting set W3 and it includes one blue and white double decker. Hopefully it will be giving rides later in the year. “Rattler” was a disgusting derogatory term coined by the media in just the last few years of the single deck operation.To the general fans and public, trains were simply Double Deckers or Single Deckers.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks! I meant no offence. Those double deckers in maroon (or some of those painted dull silver, not stainless steel) is not a C, or K, or S set?
@@Woodland26 I realise that. I’m just trying to inform younger viewers that the term was never used in Sydney, that I ever heard anyway, until after 1987.
When double deck trailers first appeared, they were painted red to match the single deck trains with which they ran. Then when the DD motors first came out, they were also painted red. Some time later, new trains were left in raw silver stainless steel, and when single deckers were phased out, their DD trailers were painted grey to sort-of match the DD silver motors which they were paired up with. The red DD motors had the red paint stripped off. The grey trailers would only ever have worked in S sets until scrapped.
@@tressteleg1 Can you solve my final mystery on those blue and white carriages, are they same age as the red carriage or even older? Is it just a colour scheme change? In this clip there appeared in a few different occasions.
@@Woodland26 Nothing to do with age. Carriages of all ages got these colours, but no effort was made to keep all the blue and white cars in the same trains.
I think t was the 1970s that a Mr Shirley from Britain became the boss of the NSW railways, and decided upon this scheme to brighten up the railways. The main problem is that the muck which washed off the roofs below the pantographs was much more visible on those colours than the red. Eventually Shirley was gone, and gradually the colours disappeared too.
I used to love these old girls, B&B the bars used to make good warm-up poles on the way to work. Yes! That kind of work, Hey, I was a young dumb little girl, and it paid the bills. Seems like a million years ago today!
Sounds like you had a lot of fun, details of which RUclips will not let us discuss here
John signing off for the day , at Punchbowl Car Sheds . Nice inclusion . A scene that reenacts it's self daily , throughout smoko sheds of the working class , every where . Fourty years ago . A millisecond of time .
Yes it was a nice little scene, one which the travelling public never saw.
Excellent footage. Just curious though, what is up with the blue and white colour scheme with one of those power cars? any significance to that?
+John Smith
in 1970 the NSW Public Transport Commission was set up, the Chief Commissioner being Phillip Shirley, formerly of British Rail. Repainting the entire suburban rail fleet in blue and white was his idea. That job was never finished and upon his resignation the red colour returned.
Thank you for the reply and thank you once again for all the footage you have shared. In all it's great to see the F1 Red Set make a return for heritage trip. Fingers crossed that perhaps some of the other cars (C3102 + T4554 and any others HET/SRA may have will return, along with W3.
tressteleg1 I always wanted to know that! I can’t remember if I ever saw an eight car single deck train in all blue and white. Am I imagining things or did they exist?
The blue and white colours were introduced by a rail ?Chief Commissioner called Phillip Shirley. Nice when fresh, but showed pantograph muck after rain rather well! Except for a special tour train, there appeared to be no attempt to marshal them all together. Maybe a form of protest.
At 11.01 gee there was a lot of sparks flying but nonetheless this brings back memories of my childhood riding on these old ladies
yeah gotta do a cheeky skid for the boys
Must of had the new Mitsubishi control gear that was being used to upgrade the red rattlers
Some 3000 power cars got 4 motors in two new bogies and became the 7000 type, some got new bogies frames with old motors and trucks but I believe no other Red SETS modifications were made, electrically at least, apart from new voltage regulators.
When a red rattler came in for overhaul at ELCAR; the motor control contactors would be removed and replaced with new Mitsubishi contactors. Which type/s I am not sure of
I’m always interested to learn something new so looked at Geoff Moss’ book Sydney electric Trains but saw no mention of any conversion. So I would like to know where you came by this information.
I was a fourth-year electrical fitter then elec fitter tradesman at Elcar. 1985 to 1988. I worked on overhaul of red rattlers' under car control gear
Interesting thanks. Do you think many got done? Were they all upgraded or just those in the worst condition? I know that for many years they were robbing Peter to pay Paul. The weak field contactors were the first to be reallocated.
I have lived at Miranda for forty years. I still remember the noise of the red rattlers going up grade to Sutherland. It sure was a nightmare on a wet day with a packed train.with wheel slip. Quite a few times I walked from Gymea to Kirrawee because the train blew a couple of motors. I never missed the old rattler.
nah the engineer wanted to do a cheeky skid haha