To counter adverse yaw, you need to add rudder in the _same_ direction as you are moving the stick. The bigger the aileron deflection the larger the rudder input needed. Note: some aircraft have aerodynamic or mechanical devices to reduce adverse yaw, e.g. Frise Aileron or aileron/rudder spring linkages.
Thanks Mate, great information. I'll need to watch this many more times than once to take it all in. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this.
Just chiming in to say how much I appreciate the thought and care you put on your videos. Having loads of fun applying these concepts in War Thunder. US Fighters + Boom 'an Zoom = Win! :-)
tojiroh Thanks Tojiroh, I'm really happy you find them to be useful! I do put a lot of time into these and I'm looking forward to continue releasing more once I finish my RL pilot training in a few months :-)
Frankly, I wish more people could watch your videos. On the other hand, this may raise the quality of the competition... Speaking of wargaming, do you have any reliable resource for tank tactics? While it's easier to control the spin on a T-34 ;) ground huggers only have 2 dimensions to work with... Good luck with your training. Cheers!
Thanks! Actually, if you look closely you can see I am using the rudder pedals. In the bottom left hand corner there is a display showing how the stick is moving and how the rudder is moving. The rudder is the horizontal portion at the bottom, so check that area in the middle of the line. When I do the aileron roll you can see the vertical line moving away from center indicating the rudder is being moved left/right. Also notice that the amount of rudder needed to stay co-ordinated during the rolls is quite different between left and right.
@@RequiemsACTL 6 years late, but still I'd like to ask - what did you mean here by opposite rudder? The input display and the rudder itself in the video seem to show rudder on the same side as the roll direction.
@@LosBerkos yea.... I just read that and that didnt make sense. Why would you use right rudder if your roll is to the left and vice versa? In a jet, you really don't need the rudders to do an aileron roll at all.
Hey good luck with the training man. As a person who's nearing the 40 hour mark in my training flight time I can tell you that these sims will really help you with the basics. Also don't be afraid to switch instructors once you've got the basics down, it can be useful to study different ways of flying, or to just get away from really noisy fields (glares at kads). Anyway good luck have fun and watch for ice this time of year.
Thanks Tomatow! It was definitely cold outside today but no ice (I flew in the afternoon). I found it funny you mention KADS though as I'm going to be very familiar with that airport ;-)
The Air Combat Tutorial Library As Tomatow said, sims will really help you both in head and hands... As for instructors, I vote the same - every new person will teach you new ways of flying/thinking and has new set of experience from his/her career. GL&HF and Welcome to pilots family! :)
the best maneuver to use against kamikaze pilots always pushing the head-on. start with a slower roll ever-increasing the roll matching theirs. you will roll right through the head-on unscathed
The Air Combat Tutorial Library You say opposite rudder to counter yaw, but in the bottom left graph looks like you press the rudder according to the rotation. Am i right?
Actually, Adverse yaw is an aircraft tendency, not a physical output. IRL, people have different preferences regarding rudder output- Aircraft's roll rate will also be taken into account. Applying opposite rudder here is mainly to keep the nose up and to maintain the line, since the rudder will become the elevator at 90degree roll. For a 'better', faster and stable roll, some will apply rudder into the roll initially, then opposite roll at 90degree. Some will do it without using rudder at all for the sake of simplicity.
Lymark Wong Interesting, thanks! I'm actually learning to fly gliders and my instructor once told me that normal rolls aren't so easy actually when they are properly executed! I can see why now..
0:48 _'centre the controls'_ - very important to notice or one would end up in a barrel roll! But I was missing another important part: are you sure you didn't imperceptibly pitch up again at the end of your roll? Because this is what we've learned how to performe it: you gotta pitch up again when you roll out because the nose is going to drop during the roll. So, either you pitched up at the end or the simulation is physically incorrect. I'll check it out by myself in Il-2 Sturmovik. Wasn't aware of it yet. Here's a good example how it would look like: ruclips.net/video/Rt38GRyl0k8/видео.html Note: _'... and then wait for the wings to level before you _*_pull_*_ .'_ Edit: Forgot to have a look at the control graphs... you indeed didn't have to pitch up. And that seems wrong to me.
Roll rate is important as it allows you to change directions faster. For example, if you have the roll rate advantage you could force an overshoot by attempting a flat scissors.
@@itspersiangulfmoron.repeat2242 It is...but the idea is that if you can stay out of plane and avoid their gunfire while doing the maneuver you can force them to overshoot without getting hit (hopefully)
??? The Air Combat Tutorial Library - Just discovered your channel and love your tutorials but OUCH gotta disagree with this video. In a correctly executed aileron roll the aircraft's nose doesn't appreciably deviate from the aircraft's longitudinal axis. What you've shown in this video looks more like a very shallow barrel roll. For a horizontal aileron roll, like in your video example, there's no need to raise the aircraft's nose above the horizon in the beginning as long as you're in level flight to begin with. You use both elevator and 'top' rudder to keep the nose on the horizon during the aileron roll. To understand the concept of 'top rudder' think of the physical position of each rudder pedal as the aircraft rolls. The rudder pedal on 'top' of the horizon is the one to apply to keep the nose up. In a left aileron roll, for example, top rudder is right rudder when the aircraft is rolling through 90 degrees and changes to left rudder when the aircraft has rolled through approximately 270 degrees. Of course, approaching 180 degrees apply down elevator and up elevator approaching completion of the roll. In a right aileron roll it's opposite, i.e., left rudder is top rudder at 90 degrees, etc. My dad, a retired USAF pilot had taught me the correct way to perform an aileron roll many years ago after I had gotten my pilot's license. And there are gazillions of RUclips videos of pilots executing correct longitudinal-axis aileron rolls. Of course, a mid-wing aircraft performs the easiest aileron rolls since the wing is located on the aircraft's longitudinal axis, so no adverse yaw. Both high wing and low wing high performance aircraft (P-51, etc.) can still perform nice aileron rolls though. Cheers from Thailand! 👍😁😄😊
I did some digging on the internet. And I found that there are two types of simillar rolling manouver... 1.Aileron roll as on this video. Which is very basic manouver. You pitch up roll left and apply left rudder to counter adverse yaw and can roll untill your nose doesn't drop too much bellow horizon. 2. Slow roll (which doesn't have to be necessarily "slow" which ilustrates pilots ability to keep the plane leveled. This one requires more ruder inputs and also elevator input. You start with banking left and apply left rudder to counter adverse yaw but as you approach 90 degree you apply right rudder to level the nose. Approaching the 180 you release rudder and apply negative pitch to stay leveled. Approaching 270 you then apply left rudder and finish the roll. So I think in this video is demonstrated the basic Aileron roll while you describe more of the advanced slow roll...
The aileron roll (at least either the first or the second half of it) is an essential part of e.g. Immelmann (second half of the AR) or Split S (first half of the AR). So, you better know how to correctly fly an aileron roll in order to become able to fly more complex manoeuvres which may highly depend on it.
Real flight training? That's pretty fuckin' neat. Hope it works out for you not only for your own sake, but also so I can say I've taken flight tips from an actual pilot. Good luck man.
Crap I meant to put that on your Il-2 video lmao. Yea I love the tutorials but this learning curve is a pain in the ass since I used a Logitech Tech 3D pro. I'm still trying to get basics before I got ahead and try to master dogfighting and etc. So whats your sensitivity for your Il-2 Battle of Stalingrad and what Joystick do you use?
No, nothing on center or edge as that will increase sensitivity (unless your joystick is spiking). I got the new one because I wanted a proper HOTAS, then I replaced the pedals from the Logitech G940 with MFG Crosswind pedals.
Decent video except you only mention rudder a single time then make zero further reference to it. That is what I watched the video hoping to hear about
Not a good, accurate video... especially for a maneuver as simple as an aileron roll. 1. Wrong description of rudder input 2. At 1:13: saying the wing generates less lift is incorrect. Same lift... however the lift vector is moving, and no longer away from the ground.
When the plane rolled up to 90° and thus its wings are vertical during the roll (and it does it two times), please explain the ammount of lift created by the then vertical wings. Higher? Same? Or less up to none since they're vertical(!) with the only lift left provided only by the fuselage? It surefire loses lift during the roll. That's plain physics (no pun intended). The ammount of lift is equal to the weight of the aircraft divided by the cosine of the angle of bank. And in a banked turn at constant altitude (parts of the aileron roll are nothing less then consecutive reciprocal banked turns), the load factor is equal to 1/cosθ. That's why the load factor in straight and level flight (0° bank angle) is 1, since cos(0) = 1. So, 1/1 = 1. But as the bank angle approaches 90° cosθ approaches zero(!), thus the load factor (lift to aircraft weight ratio) had to approach infinity, which would kill both you and the plane. It's impossible. Hence you're losing altitude, for there's never enough (infinite) lift possible to compensate for 90° bank angles and to retain a constant altitude. Physcially impossible. You're losing lift => altitude. But as for the rudder input you're right. It's not the _'opposite rudder'_ , as this is the direction a plane tends to already yaw away from its bank direction. To apply rudder to the _'opposite'_ direction you initially wanted to roll to would even worsen the situation, which is why you gotta compensate the _'adverse yaw'_ (hence the name) by applying a bit rudder into the same (bank) direction you initially wanted to roll to. Edit: Saw the input graphs and you can clearly see that he applied rudder of course according to the roll direction (by the by, he's a RL commercial pilot and certainly knows about all that). I think how he said it is a tad confusing: _'opposite rudder to counter adverse yaw'_ - by that he meant _'opposite to the adverse yaw'_ .
@videohuggy, technically, he IS correct in a manner of speaking. Lift is the force which counteracts gravity. howthingsfly.si.edu/sites/all/themes/htf/_images/all_forces.png When the lift vector is no longer perpendicular to the ground, lest true lift is produced. Then, rather than true lift, all the airfoil is producing is "aerodynamic lift," which is not the same thing. To keep the aircraft in the air in say a knife edge turn, the rudder must be used to tilt the tail down, so the combination of thrust (engine power) and airflow on the fuselage and vertical stabilizer generate the lift the wings are no longer producing.
To counter adverse yaw, you need to add rudder in the _same_ direction as you are moving the stick. The bigger the aileron deflection the larger the rudder input needed. Note: some aircraft have aerodynamic or mechanical devices to reduce adverse yaw, e.g. Frise Aileron or aileron/rudder spring linkages.
A very professionally made video. I learned a lot from watching your videos. Thank you for your time and effort to make these.
Absolutely wonderful explanation
Thanks Mate, great information. I'll need to watch this many more times than once to take it all in. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this.
Just chiming in to say how much I appreciate the thought and care you put on your videos.
Having loads of fun applying these concepts in War Thunder. US Fighters + Boom 'an Zoom = Win! :-)
tojiroh Thanks Tojiroh, I'm really happy you find them to be useful! I do put a lot of time into these and I'm looking forward to continue releasing more once I finish my RL pilot training in a few months :-)
Frankly, I wish more people could watch your videos. On the other hand, this may raise the quality of the competition...
Speaking of wargaming, do you have any reliable resource for tank tactics? While it's easier to control the spin on a T-34 ;) ground huggers only have 2 dimensions to work with...
Good luck with your training. Cheers!
Greate video as usual! One question: in briefing your are writing about using rudder pedals, but you don't indemonstration video.... Why?
Thanks!
Actually, if you look closely you can see I am using the rudder pedals. In the bottom left hand corner there is a display showing how the stick is moving and how the rudder is moving. The rudder is the horizontal portion at the bottom, so check that area in the middle of the line. When I do the aileron roll you can see the vertical line moving away from center indicating the rudder is being moved left/right. Also notice that the amount of rudder needed to stay co-ordinated during the rolls is quite different between left and right.
@@RequiemsACTL 6 years late, but still I'd like to ask - what did you mean here by opposite rudder? The input display and the rudder itself in the video seem to show rudder on the same side as the roll direction.
@@LosBerkos yea.... I just read that and that didnt make sense. Why would you use right rudder if your roll is to the left and vice versa? In a jet, you really don't need the rudders to do an aileron roll at all.
Hey good luck with the training man. As a person who's nearing the 40 hour mark in my training flight time I can tell you that these sims will really help you with the basics. Also don't be afraid to switch instructors once you've got the basics down, it can be useful to study different ways of flying, or to just get away from really noisy fields (glares at kads). Anyway good luck have fun and watch for ice this time of year.
Thanks Tomatow! It was definitely cold outside today but no ice (I flew in the afternoon). I found it funny you mention KADS though as I'm going to be very familiar with that airport ;-)
you flying out of KADS?
The Air Combat Tutorial Library As Tomatow said, sims will really help you both in head and hands...
As for instructors, I vote the same - every new person will teach you new ways of flying/thinking and has new set of experience from his/her career.
GL&HF and Welcome to pilots family! :)
thanks for the info.. 100% improvement
the best maneuver to use against kamikaze pilots always pushing the head-on. start with a slower roll ever-increasing the roll matching theirs. you will roll right through the head-on unscathed
The Air Combat Tutorial Library You say opposite rudder to counter yaw, but in the bottom left graph looks like you press the rudder according to the rotation. Am i right?
Adverse yaw is yawing in the direction opposite your roll. Rudder opposite your adverse yaw would be in the same direction as the roll.
yes, its a bit confusing.
Actually, Adverse yaw is an aircraft tendency, not a physical output. IRL, people have different preferences regarding rudder output- Aircraft's roll rate will also be taken into account. Applying opposite rudder here is mainly to keep the nose up and to maintain the line, since the rudder will become the elevator at 90degree roll.
For a 'better', faster and stable roll, some will apply rudder into the roll initially, then opposite roll at 90degree. Some will do it without using rudder at all for the sake of simplicity.
Lymark Wong Interesting, thanks!
I'm actually learning to fly gliders and my instructor once told me that normal rolls aren't so easy actually when they are properly executed! I can see why now..
Hello, how do you make these black and white videos, any application
0:48 _'centre the controls'_ - very important to notice or one would end up in a barrel roll!
But I was missing another important part: are you sure you didn't imperceptibly pitch up again at the end of your roll? Because this is what we've learned how to performe it: you gotta pitch up again when you roll out because the nose is going to drop during the roll. So, either you pitched up at the end or the simulation is physically incorrect. I'll check it out by myself in Il-2 Sturmovik. Wasn't aware of it yet. Here's a good example how it would look like: ruclips.net/video/Rt38GRyl0k8/видео.html Note: _'... and then wait for the wings to level before you _*_pull_*_ .'_
Edit: Forgot to have a look at the control graphs... you indeed didn't have to pitch up. And that seems wrong to me.
RIP, Canadian Air Force, ‘SnowBirds’, Capt. Jenn Casey, 2020/05/17
Great video thanks
0:13 - This is wrong you press Z or R twice.
I love me some Nintendo 64
Thanks!
DO A BARREL ROLL
Lovely Channel!
Thanks for an informative video.
Why is roll rate often mentioned as an important factor in fighter aircraft in relation to air combat manoeuvres?
Roll rate is important as it allows you to change directions faster. For example, if you have the roll rate advantage you could force an overshoot by attempting a flat scissors.
@@RequiemsACTL Isn't flat scissors dangerous since it contains direction changing right in front of the enemy?
@@itspersiangulfmoron.repeat2242 It is...but the idea is that if you can stay out of plane and avoid their gunfire while doing the maneuver you can force them to overshoot without getting hit (hopefully)
??? The Air Combat Tutorial Library - Just discovered your channel and love your tutorials but OUCH gotta disagree with this video. In a correctly executed aileron roll the aircraft's nose doesn't appreciably deviate from the aircraft's longitudinal axis. What you've shown in this video looks more like a very shallow barrel roll.
For a horizontal aileron roll, like in your video example, there's no need to raise the aircraft's nose above the horizon in the beginning as long as you're in level flight to begin with. You use both elevator and 'top' rudder to keep the nose on the horizon during the aileron roll. To understand the concept of 'top rudder' think of the physical position of each rudder pedal as the aircraft rolls. The rudder pedal on 'top' of the horizon is the one to apply to keep the nose up. In a left aileron roll, for example, top rudder is right rudder when the aircraft is rolling through 90 degrees and changes to left rudder when the aircraft has rolled through approximately 270 degrees. Of course, approaching 180 degrees apply down elevator and up elevator approaching completion of the roll.
In a right aileron roll it's opposite, i.e., left rudder is top rudder at 90 degrees, etc. My dad, a retired USAF pilot had taught me the correct way to perform an aileron roll many years ago after I had gotten my pilot's license. And there are gazillions of RUclips videos of pilots executing correct longitudinal-axis aileron rolls. Of course, a mid-wing aircraft performs the easiest aileron rolls since the wing is located on the aircraft's longitudinal axis, so no adverse yaw. Both high wing and low wing high performance aircraft (P-51, etc.) can still perform nice aileron rolls though.
Cheers from Thailand! 👍😁😄😊
I did some digging on the internet. And I found that there are two types of simillar rolling manouver...
1.Aileron roll as on this video. Which is very basic manouver. You pitch up roll left and apply left rudder to counter adverse yaw and can roll untill your nose doesn't drop too much bellow horizon.
2. Slow roll (which doesn't have to be necessarily "slow" which ilustrates pilots ability to keep the plane leveled. This one requires more ruder inputs and also elevator input. You start with banking left and apply left rudder to counter adverse yaw but as you approach 90 degree you apply right rudder to level the nose. Approaching the 180 you release rudder and apply negative pitch to stay leveled. Approaching 270 you then apply left rudder and finish the roll.
So I think in this video is demonstrated the basic Aileron roll while you describe more of the advanced slow roll...
Purpose? Other than victory roll. Confusion and distraction for opponent on your six?
No real purpose, just more of an exercise in aircraft control than anything else really.
The aileron roll (at least either the first or the second half of it) is an essential part of e.g. Immelmann (second half of the AR) or Split S (first half of the AR). So, you better know how to correctly fly an aileron roll in order to become able to fly more complex manoeuvres which may highly depend on it.
Real flight training? That's pretty fuckin' neat. Hope it works out for you not only for your own sake, but also so I can say I've taken flight tips from an actual pilot.
Good luck man.
Thanks Spidro, I had my first flight today and loved it :-)
What is your sensitivity at?
This video was flown in DCS a long time ago so I honestly don't know. I kept most stuff in DCS standard though.
Crap I meant to put that on your Il-2 video lmao. Yea I love the tutorials but this learning curve is a pain in the ass since I used a Logitech Tech 3D pro. I'm still trying to get basics before I got ahead and try to master dogfighting and etc. So whats your sensitivity for your Il-2 Battle of Stalingrad and what Joystick do you use?
I used to have that joystick myself :-) For my sensitivity I use: Pitch 40%, Yaw 35%, Roll 0%
Do you put anything on dead center or edge? And Do you still use that Joystick? If not why you got a new one?
No, nothing on center or edge as that will increase sensitivity (unless your joystick is spiking). I got the new one because I wanted a proper HOTAS, then I replaced the pedals from the Logitech G940 with MFG Crosswind pedals.
Decent video except you only mention rudder a single time then make zero further reference to it. That is what I watched the video hoping to hear about
Generally speaking there isn't a whole lot to say with rudder use, basically it's use whatever amount is needed to remain coordinated in any maneuver.
Not a good, accurate video... especially for a maneuver as simple as an aileron roll.
1. Wrong description of rudder input
2. At 1:13: saying the wing generates less lift is incorrect. Same lift... however the lift vector is moving, and no longer away from the ground.
When the plane rolled up to 90° and thus its wings are vertical during the roll (and it does it two times), please explain the ammount of lift created by the then vertical wings. Higher? Same? Or less up to none since they're vertical(!) with the only lift left provided only by the fuselage? It surefire loses lift during the roll. That's plain physics (no pun intended).
The ammount of lift is equal to the weight of the aircraft divided by the cosine of the angle of bank. And in a banked turn at constant altitude (parts of the aileron roll are nothing less then consecutive reciprocal banked turns), the load factor is equal to 1/cosθ. That's why the load factor in straight and level flight (0° bank angle) is 1, since cos(0) = 1. So, 1/1 = 1.
But as the bank angle approaches 90° cosθ approaches zero(!), thus the load factor (lift to aircraft weight ratio) had to approach infinity, which would kill both you and the plane. It's impossible. Hence you're losing altitude, for there's never enough (infinite) lift possible to compensate for 90° bank angles and to retain a constant altitude. Physcially impossible. You're losing lift => altitude.
But as for the rudder input you're right. It's not the _'opposite rudder'_ , as this is the direction a plane tends to already yaw away from its bank direction. To apply rudder to the _'opposite'_ direction you initially wanted to roll to would even worsen the situation, which is why you gotta compensate the _'adverse yaw'_ (hence the name) by applying a bit rudder into the same (bank) direction you initially wanted to roll to.
Edit: Saw the input graphs and you can clearly see that he applied rudder of course according to the roll direction (by the by, he's a RL commercial pilot and certainly knows about all that). I think how he said it is a tad confusing: _'opposite rudder to counter adverse yaw'_ - by that he meant _'opposite to the adverse yaw'_ .
@videohuggy, technically, he IS correct in a manner of speaking. Lift is the force which counteracts gravity.
howthingsfly.si.edu/sites/all/themes/htf/_images/all_forces.png
When the lift vector is no longer perpendicular to the ground, lest true lift is produced. Then, rather than true lift, all the airfoil is producing is "aerodynamic lift," which is not the same thing. To keep the aircraft in the air in say a knife edge turn, the rudder must be used to tilt the tail down, so the combination of thrust (engine power) and airflow on the fuselage and vertical stabilizer generate the lift the wings are no longer producing.