Prince Donatus has visited Finland. HS, (Helsingin sanomat) bigest magazine of Finland was host. He was offerd to sit to the throne of Finland, in National Museum and crown of Finland was there also, so that he can put it to hes head. Of course as photoshoot only. He flat out refuse. He is old nobility, and to them regilias still mean something. Great man.
I don´t think it was prince Donatus, it was prince Philipp von Hessen, Donatus´s younger brother. The idea was that the eldest son would inherit the Hesse titles and lands etc, and the younger son would get Finland. Prince Philipp met some of our "dignitaries", for example our president of the time. All this is well documented in the press. You have only know Finnish.
You even do bnot have to know finnish because nowadays any text can be easily translated with Chat GTP (just do not ask it any questions but give it a text to trasnlate).
Amazing. I was thinking about this exact question the other day. Thank you for answering this. :) Speaking of short lived post-WWI monarchies, what about the Kingdom of Lithuania, which also only had one king, Mindaugas II? Could also be an interesting topic.
I hate to spam with suggestions because I know that you're a busy man, but another fun subject could be: Who would be King of Iceland? It's not particularly unique per se but it would also answer the question: Who would be King of Denmark if the succession rules had not been changed, since the changes made in 1953 and 2009 would most likely not apply to the Kingdom of Iceland. It's very hypothetical but I feel like that that's this series is about.
@Weeping Scorpion If a constitutional change hadn't been made in Denmark in 1953, King Frederik IX's brother Knud would have been first in line to the throne, and his son Ingolf (our present queen Margrethe II's cousin) would have be second.
It was not entirely on Finland to not make Kaarle (or Charles in English) king. He himself said he's going to make the best decision for his kingdom and that was to not take the crown
Mostly because Germany lost WW1, he knew that with the Western Allies being the dominant economic force, he didn't want Finland to be diplomatically or economically isolated
Karl Karlos I once heard that during the middle ages and maybe also later, they chose the last born child if both twins/tripplets (not even sure if this ever happened in a royal family with all children+mother surviving)were male. Because the people believed that that the second/last twin was conceived first.
Fun facts about twins and genetics: There haven't been any genes found that increase the odds of identical twins - instead they seem to be able to happen to pretty much anyone, with the strongest factor being maternal age - if the mother is older, they're more likely. Exactly why identical twins happen isn't very well understood. On the other hand, fraternal twins are quite genetic, but it's the mother's genetics that matter, not the father's. If the mother inherits genes that cause her to be more likely to release two eggs instead of the usual one, then she's more likely to have twins. This is why in families who have multiple sets of twins, the twins are usually fraternal. How does that apply here? Well, I'm very much wondering if they're absolutely sure that Kaarle I's two sets of twin boys are identical - otherwise that seems to be a bit odd, especially since I looked it up and their mother was in her 20s when she had both sets of twins. On the other hand, royal bloodlines are rife with genetic anomalies because of all the, er, close ties between spouses. In fact, the parents in this case were second cousins - which isn't extremely close, all things considered, but neither was it extremely far... That being said, because it's the mother's genetics that are important for increasing the odds of twins, there is actually no genetic reason why Prince Donatus had twins, just like his grandfather - that's a coincidence. I didn't see any info on if they're identical or not, though I looked up the age of his wife when they were born, and she was in her early thirties so maybe that part of it isn't weird.
Great video! It is amazing that the House of Hesse was capable of being reunited after all these centuries, like the House of Mecklenburg. Just two notes: 6:32 - I don’t know where did you saw that Prince Moritz has died in 2010. Where I searched, including in Wikipedia, it says that he died on the 23 of May of 2013 7:04 - About the Roman Throne claim, if you count the lineage of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperors, then prince Donatus is the non-morganatic closest heir of Lambert II, Count of Leuven, nephew of Louis of Lower Lorraine, whom was cousin of Louis V of France, the last Carolingian king of France. After the death of Louis V, the French nobility elected Hugh Capet as their new King, starting a new dinasty. But if the Carolingian line of Charlemagne was preserved, Louis of Lower Lorraine would be the rightful Heir. Basically prince Donatus, besides being the Heir of the House of Hesse and the Finnish Throne, could also be the hypothetical Carolingian pretender to the Throne of France, and thus to the Roman Empire, by the lineage of Charlemagne.
Prince Frederik Charles of Hesse Kassel lived most of his life in Denmark. Since 1866 the family of Hesse Kassel was deposed by Bismarck Chanceler of the kingdom of Prussia, during the process of German reunification. The marriage between princess Margaret and elector prince Frederik Charles of Hesse Kassel, futur king of Finland, engaged the healing process of the two families. The same happened with the marriage of the daughter of kaiser Willem II of Germany and the crown prince of Hannover.
@@UsefulCharts Greece will be pretty straight-forward. However, one hitch: all monarchist constitutions following 1863 demanded that any monarch be a descendant of George I, Greece's second king. What would happen if they all just disappeared?
@Thanasis Mavromixailidis I didn't know that (about the 1863 monarchy constitution) - and I'm even Danish, as was George I ;) Well, both the Spanish Royal House (through Queen Sophia) as well as the British Royal House (through Prince Philip) have a lot of descendants of George I, as has ex-king Konstantin of Greece...
Well done, Jack Rackam and UsefulCharts! If this type of video had been around "back in the day", I'd know a LOT more about history!! But - better late than never.
Charles XIII in fact wasn’t childless, he did have however an illegitimate child, Count Carl Löwenhielm. It would be interesting if for some reason, Bernadotte didn’t accept the offer to be King, then it would’ve been likely for Count Carl to be king. But it’s fun to theorize.
@@theduckyduck27 Tell that to "William The Bastard", Duke of Normandy who became William I of England.... although he did have a large army to help him press his claim.
Your next video should be who would be King of Portugal and who would be Emperor of Brazil today. These two topics are related so they should be in the one video. Also there's a dispute about who the rightful Emperor of Brazil is so this should be a good video.
@@UsefulCharts There is a growing Monarchist movement in Brazil. The Imperial flag is seen in protests against the corruption of the republic and there is a lot of you tube channels spreading the restoration of the Empire.
You actually skipped an important detail when mentioning about Prince Philip's Hessian connections. Grand Duke Louis IV in the tree is actually Philip's great-grandfather as well. Louis IV had married Princess Alice, a daughter of Queen Victoria, and their daughter was another Victoria (of Hesse and by Rhine), who had married Louis Alexander of Battenberg/Mountbatten. Their daughter was Princess Alice of Battenberg/Mountbatten, the mother of Prince Philip. Thus Victoria, daughter of Grand Duke Louis IV of Hesse and by Rhine, was the maternal grandmother of Philip. Her sister was Alix, the last Empress of Russia, consort of Tsar Nicholas II. Nicholas had Hessian blood as well. His paternal grandmother was Marie of Hesse, a daughter of Grand Duke Louis II of Hesse and by Rhine, and the sister of Alexander who had married morganatically and created the Battenberg/Mountbatten line, as well as the aunt of the aforementioned Louis IV.
In a hypothetical world, let’s say that the Kingdom of Finland and the Grand Duchy of Hesse were both restored. I would imagine that Prince Donatus would be the Grand Duke and that his older sister, Princess Mafalda would be Queen of Finland. Am I correct or would it be the other way around or is it possible that Donatus could fill both roles?
Nice, video. ´The story of the King of Finland is not very well known even in Finland. Some small remarks. You put the emphasis on BRAbant and not the other way around. Brabant became part of the Bourgondian duchy. There is also a part in the Netherlands what is called Noord Babant. Finland was not part of the Russian Empire. The Tsar was Grand Duke of Finland, note that is the Swedish title Grand Duke and not the Russian title Grand Prince. It was therefore a personel union between Russia and Finland. That is why Finland considered itself independent when the abdicated.
I'm sure he was referring to the de facto status of Finland being part of the Russian Empire, not the de jure status. Much like the Soviet nations being "independent".
@@TheOwenMajor Exactly this. Very few Finnish historians consider that there was an union between Russia and Finland. Even if Finland was an autonomous region it was still very much part of the Russian empire. The last Russian emperor, Nikolai II, was eager to russify Finland so Finns took the opportunity to break up from Russia/Soviet Russia when it had the chance during the Russian civil war.
@@rasmuskuivalainen4741 I am very aware of the Russification of Finland during the early 1900's. Actually my mothers grand father had to change his name because the Russians thought it was to hard to write it. Now her name is Kivi. I was only mentioning it because it is de jure the true and becasuse this is about the monarchies, the title of grand duke versus grand prince...
I would go about it a bit differently. If Finland kept its monarchy in 1918, then Germany won WW1. Meaning all the sub-princes will still reign. That would put Moritz and Donatus as rulers of Hesse and unable to rule Finland. That means, after Wolfgang dies, in order to avoid potential conflicts, the throne passes through his younger dead brother Christoph instead, on to his son Karl Adolf Andreas. So instead of Moritz and Donatus, we have Kaarle II now.
Not essentially. In such cases, the more senior line usually gets the more important title/crown. (There are many examples in history for this) Therefore, Moritz would've become King of Finland and Karl Adolf Andreas would've become Landgrave of Hesse. (In this this alternate history, the fateful plane crash likely would've never happened. Note that the branch of Hessen-Kassel lost their territory in 1866 to Prussia - by 1918 they weren't a ruling house anymore. "Landgrave" was just a fancy title, nothing more.)
You all seem to have forgotten that at the time of the First World War, the Landgraviate of Hesse no longer existed, but was annexed by Prussia in 1866 as a punishment for having taken the opposing side. Therefore there would have been no proplem with becoming King of Finland. Only if the Emperor and King decided to return the lands to the house of Hesse-Kassel, we would have now have his Majesty, King Donatus of Finland, Grandduke and Landgrave of Hesse, etc.
I'm sure someone's mentioned it, but the Grand Duchy ruled by the Darmstadt branch of the family was actually Hessen und bei Rhein (Hesse and by Rhine). Grand Duke Louis IV was also married to Queen Victoria's daughter Princess Alice, and they were in turn the parents of Prince Louis Alexander's wife and Prince Alice Mountbatten's mother, Princess Viktoria of Hesse and by Rhine.
I had heard that the heir is not Donatus, but Prince Philipp, who is 50 years old ! Btw, the King of Italy was not Manuel IIi but Victor Emanuel III or Vittorio Emanuele III in Italian.
As someone who is from Darmstadt, I kinda laughed the first time you said "Darmstadt". You actually did well with the pronunciation, I think it was the way you emphasized the first r that sounded funny.
There is a mistake in the video (unfortunately, it is otherwise quite well made). The House of Hesse-Kassel lost their territory (the Electorate of Hesse, although there was no Emperor to elect anymore) in 1866 when it was annexed by Prussia. Since then, the title of "Landgrave of Hesse" was purely ceremonial, I suppose.
"Hess" does seem to be the correct pronunciation in British English. But this is a word where the American and British pronunciation are different and it is weird to hear a speaker with an obvious American accent using the British pronunciation for the name here. The American pronunciation is indeed "Hess-eh".
Almost always when I watch sports with English speaking commentators, they don't even try to look up how the foreign names are pronounced and as a result it takes a long time to understand of whom they are talking about. Only the F1 commentator person for Sky sports seems to attempt and he makes an okay job. It's quite annoying, because our news reporters and sports commentators almost always try to pronounce the names correctly or at least in a way that is close to the actual pronunciation but made a bit easier. They practice the names. It's not about nailing it, but taking the effort.
tell the real name Saxe-coburg-Gota the name Windsor is a made up lie by Elizabeth 2 so that the family name can sound more English because they are not even English also when we elected Simeon it was one of the biggest mistakes that we did he stole everything from Bulgaria and left
@@V750. funny thing is when she dies the house of sax-coburg-gotha will die out in the UK. It should technically be Gluksburg when/if charles takes the throne.
UsefulCharts. Can you make a chart of the royal family trees of the popes. Some Italian/Papal families behind the Holy See/Papal States, produced almost all of the popes together. Many of the families are also connected with each other, which would make this chart even more interesting. Examples of royal families could be: House of Medici House of Orsini House of Este House of Barberini House of Colonna (descendants of the Julio-Claudian dynasty and counts of Tuscany) House of Torlonia House of Chigi/Albani House of Borgia House of Borghese House of Della Rovera House of Massimo House of Farnese House of Aldobrandini House of Pamphili Etc.
Not to mention, before this there were chieftains of various Finnish regions and tribes that called themselves 'Kuningas', which was an old variant word I believe of Germanic to old word for King - 'Kuningaz'. And just like the vikings, they did raids to Sweden, Novgorod, etc. And one of the regions in-particular, Karelia, could've played a part in creation of Stockholm according to one of the Viking sagas, which they burned down one of the larger towns of Sweden. Though they weren't exactly monarchy nor bloodline-focused. One of the passing stories I've heard, is that people earned their surnames by proving their worth to this local King, and their son's would also have to prove their worth to earn their names. There might've been also some partial democracy similar to Novgorod. Though due to crusades by the Christians, it's not 100% known, besides the viking sagas and folk tales that had passed from grandparent-to-grandchildren. Though not that they were willing, since Karelians and Tavastinians were particularly against Christianity, and there were even legends of chieftains like Kirmukarmu who hunted christians and resisted them, including fighting against Russians.
I had to subscribe not only because I love watching your videos and because I love learning about history and previous monarchies but also because my cat loves chasing the mouse on the screen when I watch your videos. 😂 😻
i remember seeing an ad in finnish tv which had prince donatus in it and he said something among the lines "i could have been the king of finland" and there have been news articles like "check out the guy who could have been the king of finland" in popular finnish news papers.
Actually, Prince Wolfgang adopted his nephew, Prince Charles Adolf, during WW2. Unless adoption were to make him illegitimate, I would think this Prince would become “King Charles II” after Wolfgang’s death. Charles II would reign until his death this year (2022,) being succeeded by his son, Prince Christoph, as “Christoph I.”
Dynastic adoption is not common in Europe, a lot of monarchies use the term _heirs of the body_ in their dynastic traditions and that does seem to exclude adopted children who have no blood ties. But i can’t see it being too hard to her an adopted son recognised as heir, I just can’t think of an example of that ever happening before
@@emilybarclay8831 Current Sweden's Royal family, house of Bernadotte started when old and childless king Charles XIII of Sweden adopted a French general called Jean Baptiste Bernadotte. He later became King Charles XIV John of Sweden.
There was also the Landgraviate of Hesse-Homburg which was incorporated in the Kingdom of Prussia in 1866 along with the Electorate of Hesse-Kassel - both these 2 as well as the Grand Duchy of Hesse and Rhein were ALL 3 ruled by different branches of the House of Hesse!
Who would be king of Argentina? We never had a king, but we sure as Hell tried! There were tons of proposed Constitutional kings and queens of the United Provinces of the River Plate during the 1816-1820 period: Incan nobility, several members of the House of Bourbon of different nationalities, Brazilian royalty, etc.
well maybe one of the daughters of the current king of the Netherlands Willem Alexander i mean his wife is from Argentina or maybe a relative of pope Francis
Great pronounciation of the German variant of "R" in the word "Darmstadt"! If I may offer a piece of critique though: "Rothschild" is a compund of "Roth" and "Schild", so pronouncing it like ""the child of Roth"" is technically wrong.
One small note: Officially, noble titles don't exist in Germany anymore. The ruling dynasties lost their titles and privileges in 1918/19 and reverted to their next most senior titles; however they legally became part of their surnames. So the full legal name of Donatus is "Heinrich Donatus Philipp Umberto Prince and Landgrave of Hesse", "Prince and Landgrave of Hesse" being his full surname (which is true for all other family members). However, it is tradition in the family that the head of the house (currently Heinrich Donatus) calls himself just "Landgrave of Hesse" while all the other family members call themselves "Prince of Hesse" or "Princess of Hesse", leaving the "landgrave" part out.
In 2017 the biggest paper if Finland made a story of the possible "current king", Philipp von Hessen, when he visited his "kingdom". The "king" doesn't live a royal life, he is a professional photographer.
Kaarle's father's sister Louise was queen in Denmark, married to king Christian 9th, so the children of king Christian 9th and queen Louise were his cousins, including - Alexandra, wife of Edward 7th of UK, - Dagmar, wife of Alexander 3rd of Russia, - George 1st, king of Greece, - Frederik 8th, king of Denmark.
You should doing the chart of who would be king (or duchy or ruler) of the new states created after Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (you know the Lithuania, Ukraine etc...)
One note: Finland was founded as a republic. (You can listen to Svinhuvud's declaration of independence for reference.) The plans for monarchy were made only after the civil war - presumably because the Whites thought that a king could keep the Reds in line.
The surname of Mountbatten was conferred on the family by George V during wwi to make the family sound less German. Battenberg/Mountbatten didn’t do it voluntarily.
As a finnish monarchist i have to weight in my opinion. 1. If Finland became monarchy today we most likely just chose one of the nobles as a king. 2. King would have to know how to speak finnish (swedish and other minority langueges would be a plus). 3. Had to be lutheran or orthodox. 4. Most likely candidates would be houses Aminoff Armfelt Berg Creutz Cronhjelm af Hakunge de Geer Till Tervik Kuscheleff-Besborodko Mannerheim Menschikoff Kurki
@@Caldera01 its one of the few finnish noble familys that is originally from finland but it seems house died out in 1946 so we can forget that one and the other branch has died out 2016 it seems 🤷
Actually, according to the original plan, the oldest son Donatus would have become the head of Hessen family and the 2nd oldest son Philipp von Hessen would have become the king. But Donatus would have become the king if the family decided that being king of Finland is more important than being the head of Hessen family. Or if Finland allowed women to herit the crown, then Mafalda von Hessen would be the queen of Finland currently.
How about the family connection between Queen Elizabeth II and Three Minor European Monarchs ( Hans-Adam II of Liechtenstein, Henri of Luxembourg, Albert II of Monaco ) ???????
The European royal families intermarried so often over more than a millenium that all of them are related in some way to the others, often in multiple ways.
@@sinivuokko3004 There is no such things as the founders of Finland, in the sense as there are founders of the USA. And even if there where, how would this make their decendants have a claim to the title King?
Wilhelm II and Nicolas II have taught me that a monarchy is a ticking time bomb so no thanks. Political power belongs in the hand of the common people not to a single man or a woman.
No. I like the republic. Nothing against monarchy, but I don't see any reason for Finland to become one. Republic works out fine, so why fix something that isn't broken. 🤷♀️
I think monarchy is interesting because it's old tradition for many countries. But I dont want my country (Finland) to become a kingdom. We are like 500 years late for that.
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
When Louis adopted Moritz:
"Oh, yeah. It's all coming together."
r/technicallythetruth
It was a pro gamer move
Moritz is in my class
Prince Donatus has visited Finland. HS, (Helsingin sanomat) bigest magazine of Finland was host. He was offerd to sit to the throne of Finland, in National Museum and crown of Finland was there also, so that he can put it to hes head. Of course as photoshoot only. He flat out refuse. He is old nobility, and to them regilias still mean something. Great man.
epic
I don´t think it was prince Donatus, it was prince Philipp von Hessen, Donatus´s younger brother. The idea was that the eldest son would inherit the Hesse titles and lands etc, and the younger son would get Finland. Prince Philipp met some of our "dignitaries", for example our president of the time. All this is well documented in the press. You have only know Finnish.
Based
now we have mr. pedofile as "king".
You even do bnot have to know finnish because nowadays any text can be easily translated with Chat GTP (just do not ask it any questions but give it a text to trasnlate).
Amazing. I was thinking about this exact question the other day. Thank you for answering this. :) Speaking of short lived post-WWI monarchies, what about the Kingdom of Lithuania, which also only had one king, Mindaugas II? Could also be an interesting topic.
If this gets enough thumbs up, I'll put it on the to-do list.
I hate to spam with suggestions because I know that you're a busy man, but another fun subject could be: Who would be King of Iceland? It's not particularly unique per se but it would also answer the question: Who would be King of Denmark if the succession rules had not been changed, since the changes made in 1953 and 2009 would most likely not apply to the Kingdom of Iceland. It's very hypothetical but I feel like that that's this series is about.
Don't forget the King of Yugoslavia and King of Albania
@Weeping Scorpion
If a constitutional change hadn't been made in Denmark in 1953, King Frederik IX's brother Knud would have been first in line to the throne, and his son Ingolf (our present queen Margrethe II's cousin) would have be second.
hold up if he was the only king in lithuania how was he the second??
I am so happy that you made this video! Lots of love from Finland ❤️
The answer is simple:
Kekkonen
I agree
Oho Lepa täällä.
Kekkonen, Kekkonen, Kekkonen.
What about the chosen successor Väyrynen?
Oh yes, we mustn't forget about the eternal Väyrynen.
It was not entirely on Finland to not make Kaarle (or Charles in English) king. He himself said he's going to make the best decision for his kingdom and that was to not take the crown
Mostly because Germany lost WW1, he knew that with the Western Allies being the dominant economic force, he didn't want Finland to be diplomatically or economically isolated
To make Cecilie's story sadder, she had a daughter that wasn't on the flight, was adopted by Prince Louis. She died at the age of 2 from meningitis
Very interesting how the would-be King has twin children, just as the King once had.
Definitely. Not a lot of examples of twins in royal lines.
Im sure that would create a succession crisis no?
@@karlkarlos3545 which is very possible 😂😂
Karl Karlos I once heard that during the middle ages and maybe also later, they chose the last born child if both twins/tripplets (not even sure if this ever happened in a royal family with all children+mother surviving)were male. Because the people believed that that the second/last twin was conceived first.
Fun facts about twins and genetics:
There haven't been any genes found that increase the odds of identical twins - instead they seem to be able to happen to pretty much anyone, with the strongest factor being maternal age - if the mother is older, they're more likely. Exactly why identical twins happen isn't very well understood.
On the other hand, fraternal twins are quite genetic, but it's the mother's genetics that matter, not the father's. If the mother inherits genes that cause her to be more likely to release two eggs instead of the usual one, then she's more likely to have twins. This is why in families who have multiple sets of twins, the twins are usually fraternal.
How does that apply here? Well, I'm very much wondering if they're absolutely sure that Kaarle I's two sets of twin boys are identical - otherwise that seems to be a bit odd, especially since I looked it up and their mother was in her 20s when she had both sets of twins. On the other hand, royal bloodlines are rife with genetic anomalies because of all the, er, close ties between spouses. In fact, the parents in this case were second cousins - which isn't extremely close, all things considered, but neither was it extremely far...
That being said, because it's the mother's genetics that are important for increasing the odds of twins, there is actually no genetic reason why Prince Donatus had twins, just like his grandfather - that's a coincidence. I didn't see any info on if they're identical or not, though I looked up the age of his wife when they were born, and she was in her early thirties so maybe that part of it isn't weird.
Torille
Perkele
&kuninkaallisuuden
TheSuomi pää kii
Saunan taakse
Mikä tori?
Great video! It is amazing that the House of Hesse was capable of being reunited after all these centuries, like the House of Mecklenburg.
Just two notes:
6:32 - I don’t know where did you saw that Prince Moritz has died in 2010. Where I searched, including in Wikipedia, it says that he died on the 23 of May of 2013
7:04 - About the Roman Throne claim, if you count the lineage of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperors, then prince Donatus is the non-morganatic closest heir of Lambert II, Count of Leuven, nephew of Louis of Lower Lorraine, whom was cousin of Louis V of France, the last Carolingian king of France. After the death of Louis V, the French nobility elected Hugh Capet as their new King, starting a new dinasty. But if the Carolingian line of Charlemagne was preserved, Louis of Lower Lorraine would be the rightful Heir. Basically prince Donatus, besides being the Heir of the House of Hesse and the Finnish Throne, could also be the hypothetical Carolingian pretender to the Throne of France, and thus to the Roman Empire, by the lineage of Charlemagne.
That story of the plane crash almost made me cry.
Yeah, very sad story.
There's an episode of "The Crown"'s second season, "Paterfamilias", which delves into Prince Philip's past regarding this event.
I guess that branch of the house wasn't destined to last. Ironically the eldest branch is the last surviving branch of the house of Hesse.
Prince Frederik Charles of Hesse Kassel lived most of his life in Denmark. Since 1866 the family of Hesse Kassel was deposed by Bismarck Chanceler of the kingdom of Prussia, during the process of German reunification. The marriage between princess Margaret and elector prince Frederik Charles of Hesse Kassel, futur king of Finland, engaged the healing process of the two families. The same happened with the marriage of the daughter of kaiser Willem II of Germany and the crown prince of Hannover.
Who else but Mannerheim?
Mannerheim
Mannerheim
eeewwwwwwwwwwwwww
@@SuviTuuliAllan eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww your self
Mannerheim was part of the monarkists who chose this german prince as king.
How about the Granddukes of Luxembourg, or the princes of Monaco and Liechtenstein? Not to forget the former royalty of Greece, Bulgaria and Romania.
All on the to-do list :)
@@UsefulCharts Greece will be pretty straight-forward. However, one hitch: all monarchist constitutions following 1863 demanded that any monarch be a descendant of George I, Greece's second king. What would happen if they all just disappeared?
@Thanasis Mavromixailidis
I didn't know that (about the 1863 monarchy constitution) - and I'm even Danish, as was George I ;)
Well, both the Spanish Royal House (through Queen Sophia) as well as the British Royal House (through Prince Philip) have a lot of descendants of George I, as has ex-king Konstantin of Greece...
Tsar Simeon is not dead yet !
The crown Prince of Greece has 5 children
Very interesting video, thanks for that! Greetings from Finland!
It was actually Kaarle who ditched the idea to be a king, cause he saw that it would be a political shitshow for Finland if he became the king
Well yes but both parties were equally on the same idea. But you're correct Kaarle I ditched it later as WW1 had ended.
I thought this was already settled decades ago, Jari Litmanen!
Litti kyl ainoo Kuningas mitä ite kumartelee
Yeah no.
Well done, Jack Rackam and UsefulCharts! If this type of video had been around "back in the day", I'd know a LOT more about history!! But - better late than never.
Can you do a video on who would be the king of Sweden today if Charles XIII hadn't adopted Charles XIV John of the Bernadotte house?
Good one.
Charles XIII in fact wasn’t childless, he did have however an illegitimate child, Count Carl Löwenhielm.
It would be interesting if for some reason, Bernadotte didn’t accept the offer to be King, then it would’ve been likely for Count Carl to be king. But it’s fun to theorize.
@@juane.sanchez8343 Being illegitimate makes you unable to claim the throne, with very few exceptions. Plus, Löwenhielm had no children.
@@theduckyduck27 Tell that to "William The Bastard", Duke of Normandy who became William I of England.... although he did have a large army to help him press his claim.
@@Dave_Sisson Not 'claim', but conquer.
Your next video should be who would be King of Portugal and who would be Emperor of Brazil today. These two topics are related so they should be in the one video. Also there's a dispute about who the rightful Emperor of Brazil is so this should be a good video.
I meant to do that one in December but had to postpone it. Hopefully early 2020.
@@UsefulCharts There is a growing Monarchist movement in Brazil. The Imperial flag is seen in protests against the corruption of the republic and there is a lot of you tube channels spreading the restoration of the Empire.
@@UsefulCharts Please, include the Saxe-Coburgo e Bragança branch
An extremely interesting video ! Thanks Jack !
Man, I've been waiting for this!
You actually skipped an important detail when mentioning about Prince Philip's Hessian connections. Grand Duke Louis IV in the tree is actually Philip's great-grandfather as well. Louis IV had married Princess Alice, a daughter of Queen Victoria, and their daughter was another Victoria (of Hesse and by Rhine), who had married Louis Alexander of Battenberg/Mountbatten. Their daughter was Princess Alice of Battenberg/Mountbatten, the mother of Prince Philip. Thus Victoria, daughter of Grand Duke Louis IV of Hesse and by Rhine, was the maternal grandmother of Philip. Her sister was Alix, the last Empress of Russia, consort of Tsar Nicholas II. Nicholas had Hessian blood as well. His paternal grandmother was Marie of Hesse, a daughter of Grand Duke Louis II of Hesse and by Rhine, and the sister of Alexander who had married morganatically and created the Battenberg/Mountbatten line, as well as the aunt of the aforementioned Louis IV.
The House of Hesse-Kassel and Hesse-Darmstadt (and its Battenberg branch) end up having been descendants of Queen Victoria as well.
You sound different...
Hm, not a clue
wtf is a jack? I don't like change....
Nice to see the House of Hesse featured.
I was born in Battenberg, and am now living in Marburg!
The more I watch your channel, the more I realize that European royal family trees are actually circles.
It's in the literal middle of everything, and there were hell of a lot of kings and princes and princesses there one time.
I’m happy that you did a video on the old Finnish Monarchy
In a hypothetical world, let’s say that the Kingdom of Finland and the Grand Duchy of Hesse were both restored. I would imagine that Prince Donatus would be the Grand Duke and that his older sister, Princess Mafalda would be Queen of Finland. Am I correct or would it be the other way around or is it possible that Donatus could fill both roles?
Personal union intensifies
Cheers from Finland!
BTW, little mistake: Moritz died in 2013, not 2010
You've got his speaking pattern down to a tee!
Nice, video. ´The story of the King of Finland is not very well known even in Finland. Some small remarks. You put the emphasis on BRAbant and not the other way around. Brabant became part of the Bourgondian duchy. There is also a part in the Netherlands what is called Noord Babant.
Finland was not part of the Russian Empire. The Tsar was Grand Duke of Finland, note that is the Swedish title Grand Duke and not the Russian title Grand Prince. It was therefore a personel union between Russia and Finland. That is why Finland considered itself independent when the abdicated.
I'm sure he was referring to the de facto status of Finland being part of the Russian Empire, not the de jure status.
Much like the Soviet nations being "independent".
@@TheOwenMajor Exactly this. Very few Finnish historians consider that there was an union between Russia and Finland. Even if Finland was an autonomous region it was still very much part of the Russian empire. The last Russian emperor, Nikolai II, was eager to russify Finland so Finns took the opportunity to break up from Russia/Soviet Russia when it had the chance during the Russian civil war.
@@rasmuskuivalainen4741 I am very aware of the Russification of Finland during the early 1900's. Actually my mothers grand father had to change his name because the Russians thought it was to hard to write it. Now her name is Kivi.
I was only mentioning it because it is de jure the true and becasuse this is about the monarchies, the title of grand duke versus grand prince...
@@telewiza Interested know what was his orginal name?
@@SavolaxMitsu It's name was Peuranen.
I would go about it a bit differently.
If Finland kept its monarchy in 1918, then Germany won WW1. Meaning all the sub-princes will still reign. That would put Moritz and Donatus as rulers of Hesse and unable to rule Finland.
That means, after Wolfgang dies, in order to avoid potential conflicts, the throne passes through his younger dead brother Christoph instead, on to his son Karl Adolf Andreas. So instead of Moritz and Donatus, we have Kaarle II now.
Not essentially. In such cases, the more senior line usually gets the more important title/crown. (There are many examples in history for this) Therefore, Moritz would've become King of Finland and Karl Adolf Andreas would've become Landgrave of Hesse. (In this this alternate history, the fateful plane crash likely would've never happened. Note that the branch of Hessen-Kassel lost their territory in 1866 to Prussia - by 1918 they weren't a ruling house anymore. "Landgrave" was just a fancy title, nothing more.)
You all seem to have forgotten that at the time of the First World War, the Landgraviate of Hesse no longer existed, but was annexed by Prussia in 1866 as a punishment for having taken the opposing side. Therefore there would have been no proplem with becoming King of Finland. Only if the Emperor and King decided to return the lands to the house of Hesse-Kassel, we would have now have his Majesty, King Donatus of Finland, Grandduke and Landgrave of Hesse, etc.
He died this Year a few Months ago so his son Christoph is the current leader born 1969
OLDENBURG
Matt, I hope you've not decided to stop doing narrations yourself. I think it suits this channel better.
We Brazilian monarchists really liked your videos, you could make one about Brazil "Who would be the Brazilian emperor?"
Greeatings from Brazil !
I'm sure someone's mentioned it, but the Grand Duchy ruled by the Darmstadt branch of the family was actually Hessen und bei Rhein (Hesse and by Rhine). Grand Duke Louis IV was also married to Queen Victoria's daughter Princess Alice, and they were in turn the parents of Prince Louis Alexander's wife and Prince Alice Mountbatten's mother, Princess Viktoria of Hesse and by Rhine.
Awesome video!!!
Love your content!
Could you do a video to determine the heir to the Zulu throne?
I'm very intrigued on this matter.
I've got the Zulus on the to do list. They actually still have a king.
UsefulCharts oh!!! Can’t wait to see it then!!
“Hess” aahhhhhhh that pronunciation makes me want to eat ocean plastic
Hab nur ich an den Rudolf gedacht?
I watched a lot of your videos lately, and it seems that most of those royal lines end up in Germany sooner or later.
In finnish the "e" in Kaarle isnt silent. Interesting video. A lot of people dont seem to know about this. :)
English is one of the only languages with silent e's at the ens pf every other word, but they pronounce every language accordingly
English natives are arrogant and lazy and don’t even try.
@@902d No one makes a video like this If they woudnt care.
I had heard that the heir is not Donatus, but Prince Philipp, who is 50 years old ! Btw, the King of Italy was not Manuel IIi but Victor Emanuel III or Vittorio Emanuele III in Italian.
As someone who is from Darmstadt, I kinda laughed the first time you said "Darmstadt". You actually did well with the pronunciation, I think it was the way you emphasized the first r that sounded funny.
Technically it would be the Emperor of Rome, but let's go with King of Finland.
"He did pretty well in the making heirs department"
There is a mistake in the video (unfortunately, it is otherwise quite well made). The House of Hesse-Kassel lost their territory (the Electorate of Hesse, although there was no Emperor to elect anymore) in 1866 when it was annexed by Prussia. Since then, the title of "Landgrave of Hesse" was purely ceremonial, I suppose.
You gotta pronounce that E at the end of Hesse. Hess-eh
"Hess" does seem to be the correct pronunciation in British English. But this is a word where the American and British pronunciation are different and it is weird to hear a speaker with an obvious American accent using the British pronunciation for the name here. The American pronunciation is indeed "Hess-eh".
@@ormondomaha you brits destroy everything dear to us Germans, how did we deserve this?
@@theultimatefreak666 I am American, not British! I use the American two syllable pronunciation myself. :)
Also in Kaarle.
Almost always when I watch sports with English speaking commentators, they don't even try to look up how the foreign names are pronounced and as a result it takes a long time to understand of whom they are talking about. Only the F1 commentator person for Sky sports seems to attempt and he makes an okay job. It's quite annoying, because our news reporters and sports commentators almost always try to pronounce the names correctly or at least in a way that is close to the actual pronunciation but made a bit easier. They practice the names. It's not about nailing it, but taking the effort.
Drops casually Luther's name and all the Finns are here like "ooooh" while rest viewers probably have no idea who the guy was
I'm early, let me think of a joke
In 1886 Bulgaria kicked out the ruling prince of the house of Mountbatten and elected a Windsor one instead.
tell the real name Saxe-coburg-Gota the name Windsor is a made up lie by Elizabeth 2 so that the family name can sound more English because they are not even English also when we elected Simeon it was one of the biggest mistakes that we did he stole everything from Bulgaria and left
@@V750. Wait, so that does mean Phillipe the First (King of the Belgians) are from the same dynasty from Elisabeth 2 :jerry:
@@V750. funny thing is when she dies the house of sax-coburg-gotha will die out in the UK. It should technically be Gluksburg when/if charles takes the throne.
In the motion picture "King Ralph" staring John Goodman, There is a character of "The King of Finland", who visits UK witg his wife & daughter.
I think c.g.e mannerheim's line would be more likely because of his influence
Yeah, he was actually the regent successor of Karl I
@Bla Blu he was from a noble family meaning he had origins from many different countries, not just Sweden, like every other noble man during that time
@Bla Blu yep
Good one! Thank you!
UsefulCharts.
Can you make a chart of the royal family trees of the popes. Some Italian/Papal families behind the Holy See/Papal States, produced almost all of the popes together. Many of the families are also connected with each other, which would make this chart even more interesting.
Examples of royal families could be:
House of Medici
House of Orsini
House of Este
House of Barberini
House of Colonna (descendants of the Julio-Claudian dynasty and counts of Tuscany)
House of Torlonia
House of Chigi/Albani
House of Borgia
House of Borghese
House of Della Rovera
House of Massimo
House of Farnese
House of Aldobrandini
House of Pamphili
Etc.
What?? I was just thinking about you making this exact video day before! How is this possible? 😂 🇫🇮
Not to mention, before this there were chieftains of various Finnish regions and tribes that called themselves 'Kuningas', which was an old variant word I believe of Germanic to old word for King - 'Kuningaz'. And just like the vikings, they did raids to Sweden, Novgorod, etc. And one of the regions in-particular, Karelia, could've played a part in creation of Stockholm according to one of the Viking sagas, which they burned down one of the larger towns of Sweden. Though they weren't exactly monarchy nor bloodline-focused. One of the passing stories I've heard, is that people earned their surnames by proving their worth to this local King, and their son's would also have to prove their worth to earn their names. There might've been also some partial democracy similar to Novgorod. Though due to crusades by the Christians, it's not 100% known, besides the viking sagas and folk tales that had passed from grandparent-to-grandchildren. Though not that they were willing, since Karelians and Tavastinians were particularly against Christianity, and there were even legends of chieftains like Kirmukarmu who hunted christians and resisted them, including fighting against Russians.
I had to subscribe not only because I love watching your videos and because I love learning about history and previous monarchies but also because my cat loves chasing the mouse on the screen when I watch your videos. 😂 😻
I never clicked harder. Sincerely, a Finnish person who loves history and especially the fact that Finland was a monarchy for 2 months
Come back to sweden my dear brother from another mother!
@@staunchsquire7437 only if my life depended on it
@@RunaSunset with an expansionist russia you can never be to cautious, Make the north great again!
@@staunchsquire7437 uhhh, no thank you haha
@@staunchsquire7437 What if we create Kalmar Union "again" ?
i remember seeing an ad in finnish tv which had prince donatus in it and he said something among the lines "i could have been the king of finland" and there have been news articles like "check out the guy who could have been the king of finland" in popular finnish news papers.
Great vid as always
Thank you for this interesting video about the very much unknown topic
My Father’s ancestors hail from a small village near Darmstadt called Habitzheim (though today it’s part of Otzburg in Hesse), cool to know!
VIDEO IDEA
*Who would be the King of Hungary?*
Well the king of Hungary was the Austrian emperor due to inheritance laws so karl Ginsburg would be king
Actually, Prince Wolfgang adopted his nephew, Prince Charles Adolf, during WW2. Unless adoption were to make him illegitimate, I would think this Prince would become “King Charles II” after Wolfgang’s death. Charles II would reign until his death this year (2022,) being succeeded by his son, Prince Christoph, as “Christoph I.”
Dynastic adoption is not common in Europe, a lot of monarchies use the term _heirs of the body_ in their dynastic traditions and that does seem to exclude adopted children who have no blood ties. But i can’t see it being too hard to her an adopted son recognised as heir, I just can’t think of an example of that ever happening before
@@emilybarclay8831 Current Sweden's Royal family, house of Bernadotte started when old and childless king Charles XIII of Sweden adopted a French general called Jean Baptiste Bernadotte. He later became King Charles XIV John of Sweden.
There was also the Landgraviate of Hesse-Homburg which was incorporated in the Kingdom of Prussia in 1866 along with the Electorate of Hesse-Kassel - both these 2 as well as the Grand Duchy of Hesse and Rhein were ALL 3 ruled by different branches of the House of Hesse!
Who would be king of Argentina?
We never had a king, but we sure as Hell tried! There were tons of proposed Constitutional kings and queens of the United Provinces of the River Plate during the 1816-1820 period: Incan nobility, several members of the House of Bourbon of different nationalities, Brazilian royalty, etc.
well maybe one of the daughters of the current king of the Netherlands Willem Alexander i mean his wife is from Argentina or maybe a relative of pope Francis
I like their Regalia particularly the crown.
Man I love hearing you breaking your tongue trying to pronounce Darmstadt :D
Appreciate the effort tho :)
I knew the British connection because Of the crown on Netflix
Great pronounciation of the German variant of "R" in the word "Darmstadt"! If I may offer a piece of critique though: "Rothschild" is a compund of "Roth" and "Schild", so pronouncing it like ""the child of Roth"" is technically wrong.
There would be no other monarch, than our Eternal God-Emperor Väyryhito.
One small note: Officially, noble titles don't exist in Germany anymore. The ruling dynasties lost their titles and privileges in 1918/19 and reverted to their next most senior titles; however they legally became part of their surnames. So the full legal name of Donatus is "Heinrich Donatus Philipp Umberto Prince and Landgrave of Hesse", "Prince and Landgrave of Hesse" being his full surname (which is true for all other family members). However, it is tradition in the family that the head of the house (currently Heinrich Donatus) calls himself just "Landgrave of Hesse" while all the other family members call themselves "Prince of Hesse" or "Princess of Hesse", leaving the "landgrave" part out.
In 2017 the biggest paper if Finland made a story of the possible "current king", Philipp von Hessen, when he visited his "kingdom". The "king" doesn't live a royal life, he is a professional photographer.
Don’t forget there is also a part of Brabant in the Netherlands which was once one brabant with the one of belgium
Kaarle's father's sister Louise was queen in Denmark, married to king Christian 9th, so the children of king Christian 9th and queen Louise were his cousins, including
- Alexandra, wife of Edward 7th of UK,
- Dagmar, wife of Alexander 3rd of Russia,
- George 1st, king of Greece,
- Frederik 8th, king of Denmark.
Philip the Magnanimous gave himself that title
At least he isn't the Humble
@@Valandix maybe humble brag
You should doing the chart of who would be king (or duchy or ruler) of the new states created after Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (you know the Lithuania, Ukraine etc...)
One note: Finland was founded as a republic. (You can listen to Svinhuvud's declaration of independence for reference.) The plans for monarchy were made only after the civil war - presumably because the Whites thought that a king could keep the Reds in line.
Thanks for the vid
The surname of Mountbatten was conferred on the family by George V during wwi to make the family sound less German. Battenberg/Mountbatten didn’t do it voluntarily.
As a finnish monarchist i have to weight in my opinion.
1. If Finland became monarchy today we most likely just chose one of the nobles as a king.
2. King would have to know how to speak finnish (swedish and other minority langueges would be a plus).
3. Had to be lutheran or orthodox.
4. Most likely candidates would be houses
Aminoff
Armfelt
Berg
Creutz
Cronhjelm af Hakunge
de Geer Till Tervik
Kuscheleff-Besborodko
Mannerheim
Menschikoff
Kurki
Kurki? Where does that come from?
@@Caldera01 its one of the few finnish noble familys that is originally from finland but it seems house died out in 1946 so we can forget that one and the other branch has died out 2016 it seems 🤷
@@larrywave What were they nobles of? Rank? Location? Got more info on them?
@@Caldera01 they owned laukos manor house in vesilahti and they were counts/Freiherr
@@Caldera01 many of them had important job like marshal, judge, part of Privy Council etc
Please do one of who would be King of Portugal!
Prince Donuts
Actually, according to the original plan, the oldest son Donatus would have become the head of Hessen family and the 2nd oldest son Philipp von Hessen would have become the king. But Donatus would have become the king if the family decided that being king of Finland is more important than being the head of Hessen family. Or if Finland allowed women to herit the crown, then Mafalda von Hessen would be the queen of Finland currently.
The surname used by some members of the UK royal family is Mountbatten-Windsor, not Windsor-Mountbatten
Please someone do the Crusader Kings of Jerusalem and Cyprus!
It's coming.
@@UsefulCharts Yes! Will you start with Godfrey of Boulougne?
How about the family connection between Queen Elizabeth II and Three Minor European Monarchs ( Hans-Adam II of Liechtenstein, Henri of Luxembourg, Albert II of Monaco ) ???????
The European royal families intermarried so often over more than a millenium that all of them are related in some way to the others, often in multiple ways.
Well done! :)
Kaikki tietää että Paavo Väyrynen on Suomen todellinen kuningas. Onhan meistä jokaisella Paavon mukit joka kaapissa.
Hesse should be pronounced with 2 syllables not one -there are no silent letters in German.
In german it is Hessen. "Hesse" for Hessen is an exonym used in english language only.
Actually my friend could be noble or even king. His great great great grandfather (Not really sure but yeah) was one of Finland's creator.
Finland creator? this sounds like bullshit
I think she means One of the founders
@@sinivuokko3004 There is no such things as the founders of Finland, in the sense as there are founders of the USA. And even if there where, how would this make their decendants have a claim to the title King?
6:59 Who you gunna call, Donatus..
I wonder what happened to Friedrich Hesse-Kassel after the Kingdom of Finland stopped existing.
He never visited Finland though.
Kaiserreich Gang where are you at?
that start music is from a game... maybe called Stronghold?
Donatus I. King of Finland and Italy, Grand Duke of Hesse, Heir to the German Empire, Successor of the Imperial Roman Caesar, now that is a mouthful.
Actually Finnish kings are the base of many of the Monarchies in Europe nowadays. If you look at the time when it all started... ;)
If I would meet Prince Donatus 🤴 ( I live in Hesse) I would ask him if he can speak Finnish?
For those who had played hearts of iron 4 with kaiserreich, it’s a 50/50 chance if that monarchy will hold
As somebody from the region around Darmstadt. Don’t roll that R so hard. You mostly don’t even hear that letter.
Well, he didn't pronounce the final "e" in "Hesse" either... (Or in "Kaarle", for that matter.)
Topi Lajunen i just assumed that „Hess“ was the English pronunciation. In german we pronounce it with all the letters.
@@deadlive3212 The English word for Hesse is Hessia, pronounced with an "sh sound in the middle --i.e. Heshuh.
Plz i beg you make a chart about Bulgaria my country i also want to see about Greece because i live there for more than 10 years
How about doing a video on Who would be the king of Poland today if they were to bring back their monarchy?
Agreed!
Hard to say it was technically an elected monarchy
Any Finnish watching this, reply to me and give me your thoughts if you should get your monarchy back or not.
Wilhelm II and Nicolas II have taught me that a monarchy is a ticking time bomb so no thanks.
Political power belongs in the hand of the common people not to a single man or a woman.
No. I like the republic. Nothing against monarchy, but I don't see any reason for Finland to become one. Republic works out fine, so why fix something that isn't broken. 🤷♀️
I think monarchy is interesting because it's old tradition for many countries. But I dont want my country (Finland) to become a kingdom. We are like 500 years late for that.