My gripe with most BTC systems is how long they take to engage. While making up their mind that a front wheel has been spinning for 20 seconds, that wheel has torn wombat holes in the track. I think a subject for a future video might be how 4 wheel BTC gets you bogged to the chassis in
Dacia Duster activates EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) as ion as you reach 2000rpm and are in 1st gear. It has a short 1st gear - your speed is like 8-10 miles an hour at 2000...
No doubt a well sorted TC is great, but just how many are well sorted? Very few in reality. Had the last model D-Max and the TC was rubbish. The clip of the Triton shows potential issues with brake overheating when the TC is slow to react. Id rather have decent front and rear LSD's and dont have to worry about electronics failing in the bush and being unable to steer to due locked diffs
Sometimes you only want the front locker engaged yet few manufacturers allow this for reasons unknown. Often you just need to pull yourself up especially over rocks rather than push. That Triton was awful to watch. Far too much camera shake. Where’s the image stabilisation. Made me sick. Also lockers need to engage or disengage without having to move the vehicle - sometimes you don’t have the ability to go forward or back a metre just to get it to change state. Wow all that wheel spin is embarrassing for Mitsi.
A word of caution: Lockig front, center and rear differentials should only be done when driving very slowly and in a straight line!!!!!! Learn from my mistakes... Best is to leave the front axle open and let BTC do its thing!
If only BTC system was accurate in keeping wheel speeds within a very close speed on all 4 wheels to allow only minimal rotation differences say 5kph rotation speed differences.
Would be very interesting to test the effects of different brake pad beands/ friction formulations on how well BTC works? I can imaging pads with better bite and higher friction coefficient enabling BTC to work more effectivly/powerfully.
@L2SFBC The amount of wheel torque that can be transfered across an axle is directly proportional to the friction coefficient of the friction material. Some cheap pads fade badly, so when they get hot, they can drop to 0.1 mu from a nominal of 0.4 mu, 75% less torque! The steeper the hill, the more this might be a problem?
Interesting video. Thx for posting. I’m surprised with the Prado, the TC still operates with the rear locker engaged? I own a GX Prado so now factory locker. If I was to fit a locker, best front or rear ? Cheers
Ah, the ultimate campfire debate! A rear doesn't restrict steering but won't pull you up and the rear diff is stronger. The front reverses those advantages. Prados don't have the strongest front diffs so I'd go rear, but there are good reasons to go front...
Very interesting. Thanks for the great job. Was also under the impression that my BTC in the front doesn’t work when I engage my factory rear locker in my Prado GXL. Is it not he case? Cheers Falk
As far as I'm aware, when the factory rear diff lock (GXL spec and above) on the Prado 150 is engaged, the electronic traction control system is automatically disabled - by Toyota design. But with an aftermarket rear diff lock fitted to a GX which has an open rear diff, this would mean that you will have the best of both worlds. 🙂
Most vehicles only have active BTC up to about 15mph, after that it won't work. this is on a per wheel basis as far as I can work out, it shows in the last vehicle's climb clip that the font wheel was spinning fast with no actual effect, the BTC worked on the rear axle and it got up the obsticle. Older vehicles might also only have BTC on the rear axle. The best BTC I've found for it's age is a Wabco D on a P38 Range Rover with a stated working speed of 100kmh/62mph. I presume the other Wabco D varients also have this speed, but can't find documentation to support this.
Very informative video👍👍 Kindly advise how to drive a Jimny in soft sand . From jimny utube videos I noticed if BTC is disabled , it comes back on if the vehicle takes momentum and over a certain speed . Many resort to removing the fuse or jumping the BTC wire triggering the maintenance mode . I would appreciate your suggestions for driving a Jimny in soft sand . Thanks again
Wow this was great! I have a Land Rover Discovery series 2 and I swear that old traction control system is set up so well because I'm watching some of the stuff on here thinking I could pull up to each and every one of those and stop and take off and it would make it as good or better than anything in the video. I mean I'm running 33 inch mud terrain tires aired down to about 20 lb so I guess that means a lot but also I think the Land Rover traction control is pretty strong compared to other brand even for a 2002 model
Centre or not? Refer to the recent post on my FB, you'll see the term is not new and widely used. There's also inter-axle locking differentials...you can't say to someone "lock your diff" unless you're clear which one. Front, rear and centre may work in a 4x4, but when it comes to a 6x6 you need another set of terms.
Didn't see a 6x6 in these videos. Cross Axle Locker term was not consistently used in the video so confusing to the audience. Simple is best. Front, Rear, Centre Diff Lock on a 4x4.
I'm trying to be clear about what I mean. Refer to that thread above and you'll see a wide range of views from a lot of very experienced people across many different countries, truckers included. There is no complete agreement, but "cross-axle lockers" is generally agreed to be a useful and descriptive term, so I'll continue to use it in order to differentiate between those and centre differential lockers. The same term should carry over to 6x6, 8x8, 6x4 and whatever else, it would otherwise be confusing. However, the term "cross axle locking differential" is quite long, so a with most long terms, it can be abbreviated after first use to "lockers".
It's done to protect the driveline, but I don't agree with the logic, brake traction control helps control wheelspin and means less need for momentum so I feel it has the reverse effect.
@@L2SFBC How is disconnecting front BTC said to protect the driveline upon engaging Rear Diff? Toyota LC300 GRS apparently does this so presumably their is some evidentiary basis. OTOH do people modify 4WD to restore front BTC when rear diff is locked?
@@davidlewington3324 I'm no expert for sure, but I don't see how disconnecting BTC can protect the drive line.. I have seen a few videos where IFS Toyota 4WDs ( Tacoma, 4Runner? not sure) snap a front axle. This seems to happen when they apparently did not have A-Trac switched on. Since it happened each time when 1 tire was lifted quite high in the air, and is spinning at high speed. Then the vehicle finally finds enough traction to lurch forward, and the spinning wheel drops suddenly onto a high traction surface, like rock. Snap. Wouldn't the vehicle be better protected if the spinning wheel had a brake applied before it ever got up to a dangerously high speed? Even if the rear axle was locked? In addition to likely providing for improved traction? But, they have a reason I suppose. I wonder what it is?
@@BillyBobTup Ah okay thanks, food for thought. I am no expert either but can only hypothesize it may have something to do with power (drive/ work) suddenly being restored to the grounded wheel and when the airborne wheel hits the ground, it too has more power to exert, and there would be a snapping or jerking moment. Note I am talking about Power (work done) not rotational force (torque). The spinning wheel in the air can be spinning fast or slow but still not generating much power through the axle or either wheel. Power = Torque x Angular Velocity in this setting. Therefore, in an open differential (in this case the front cross axle), if one wheel is in the air and freely spinning, the other wheel which isn't rotating isn't transmitting any Power to the ground (as Angular Velocity = 0, despite Torque being still present). Once BTC kicks in (kick being the operative word) that situation changes and maybe imposes a sudden load on the axle (and not directly correlated to how fast the airborne wheel is spinning at time of ground strike). *IF* I am even vaguely on track (pun) a mech engineer could explain it better ( I have some undergrad physics and post grad biomechanics). Like Feynman said, if it disagrees with experiment it is wrong, so I can only imagine Toyota has tested (experiment) whatever the theory/hypothesis is.Now, under the above scenario, in the case of a vehicle with front and rear lockers, it now becomes more understandable why they would disable BTC especially since you have front and rear lockers to deploy instead, albeit less steering when front locker deployed. Dunno 🙂
I appreciate your very informative video on this subject. In my older model Jeep Cherokee the only traction aid was the factory LSD in the rear axle which is totally useless once a back wheel lifts off the ground. To overcome this I fitted Lunchbox Lockers both front & rear because they don't bind up the cross axles when turning, basically unspool the outside wheel when steering. The only downside I've experienced with these types of locker is I can't use the option of using Full-time 4WD but because they always in use I never really know how much traction I actually have.
I do understand that totally and after using both selectable air & electric you could think that, horses for courses. But in my case I mainly use it for hardcore off-roading I've personally witnessed so often axle failures because the selectable locker's load up CV's /Uni Joints when traction is required when trying to change direction and to accomplish that often drivers forget to disengage the front locker. My first experience with traction aids in a 4WD was fitting Torsen Centres in my Hi-Lux in the early 80's after having one fitted in my Coswort Escort for Rallying in 1974, a game changer.
One of the group I used to go hill climbing with had a Pajero with only an LSD on the rear. He got in a situation on the side of hill where trying to go either forward or backwards just slid him closer to the edge (about a fifty meter drop). After tying him off to a tree, I got him to put the hand brake on moderately hard, after which he was able to drive forward quite easily. The tie-off turned out to be unnecessary, but I felt better knowing that if the worst happened he wasn't going to disappear over the edge. An LSD needs some pressure on both wheels to lock the clutch pack, especially as they wear and become less useful. Using the handbrake to force the clutch pack to engage was the usual recommendation in those cases, but of course it is less than ideal and should only be used briefly in extreme situations like this. Pajeros used to have a rear locker, but they swapped it out for an LSD to make the new vehicle cheaper when they realised that the people buying them were mostly using them as a shopping cart or to take the kids to soccer...
An excellent comment, thank you and 100% agreed! Pajeros also had a poor BTC system that gave up after a while, so you'd want the rear locker on for long climbs.
BTC is a reactive system. Axle lockers are a proactive system. Different driving styles are need to get the best use from each system and both systems can be equally effective when the correct driving style is applied.
@@jerrymyahzcat Yes all BTC systems are reactive. It’s how they operate. Land Rovers with terrain response will certainly react extremely quickly but they are still a reactive system. A diff lock would be a proactive system. You can have it locked before you use it. BTC will only react after it has activated a sensor.
So Robert, if my 150 Prado already has a factory rear locker (2016), is it a good idea to install a front (either air or electric) locker? My understanding is , when rear locker engaged in 150, it will disable BTC at the same time. There is a hack to get around it but I am not comfortable with that idea. I am planning to install an air front locker next month or so, but want to get your opinion first.
The 2017 Prado Grande I tested had BTC on the front axle with the rear locker engaged. However Toyota is not consistent in how that is applied. I've got Hill of Truth videos with that Prado which appears briefly in this video. I would only add the front locker if you find you are doing a lot of hilly rocky work and really need it.
@@L2SFBC to be honest I probably only do it once or twice per year. But I kind of having this idea to "fully built" my Prado. Do you see any down side to get a after market front locker?
Sometimes you just need it to work, not wait for even one second - because then you can slide away from the intended route - and this is why I love lockers more than any traction system. I put a rear electric locker in my Jimny, lived with it for quite a while, and then went on and put a front one. It just works beautifully, and much more safer in certain conditions, if you ask me.
You’ve clearly not experienced Land Rover Terrain Response. Wheel rotation (spinning) is detected and is halted within ⅛ of a wheel rotation. None of this crazy spinning malarkey of other vehicles. And having decent TC and Not using lockers actually allows greater control as each wheel can be given what it needs instead of being locked in place and forced to match the rotation of the other side. I prefer decent 4 wheel TC that’s works, over lockers.
@@jerrymyahzcat I will not argue with other people's experience since it can be really great what you are talking about, sounds very interesting. I just say that for what I do with rock climbing, I'd rather have them both locked with constant power to them because they never failed me and acted as I have planned with the route I have taken.
Excellent question. It depends on the quality of either. BTC has the advantage of never impeding turning, whereas any LSD has a pre-load which does impact differential operation and therefore turning. One can argue the LSD's preload is an advantage, but modern BTC is so good that advantage is now negated. Overall, I'd prefer BTC. You can see a front and rear LSD in action on this truck - ruclips.net/video/gAljVxg_C5w/видео.html
The TrueTrac being a helical LSD will mean that once it lifts a wheel it is effectively an open diff. I had a wavetrac which is a helical but with clutch plates to lock when it sensed that it was 'opening up' and thus eliminating the issue that helical LSDs have.
Just so you know, the video in which Robert references the LSD's on the front and rear of the truck; it has the standard OEM Isuzu clutch pack LSD in the rear differential, while the front differential has been fitted with an aftermarket Quaife ATB differential. The front differential can be seen working very well at approximately the 22' 20" mark.
My gripe with most BTC systems is how long they take to engage. While making up their mind that a front wheel has been spinning for 20 seconds, that wheel has torn wombat holes in the track. I think a subject for a future video might be how 4 wheel BTC gets you bogged to the chassis in
Which is why Land Rover traction control activates in ⅛ of a wheel rotation. None of this lame spinning and spinning.
It's about the software,
Dacia Duster activates EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) as ion as you reach 2000rpm and are in 1st gear. It has a short 1st gear - your speed is like 8-10 miles an hour at 2000...
No doubt a well sorted TC is great, but just how many are well sorted? Very few in reality. Had the last model D-Max and the TC was rubbish.
The clip of the Triton shows potential issues with brake overheating when the TC is slow to react.
Id rather have decent front and rear LSD's and dont have to worry about electronics failing in the bush and being unable to steer to due locked diffs
Sometimes you only want the front locker engaged yet few manufacturers allow this for reasons unknown. Often you just need to pull yourself up especially over rocks rather than push.
That Triton was awful to watch. Far too much camera shake. Where’s the image stabilisation. Made me sick.
Also lockers need to engage or disengage without having to move the vehicle - sometimes you don’t have the ability to go forward or back a metre just to get it to change state. Wow all that wheel spin is embarrassing for Mitsi.
A word of caution: Lockig front, center and rear differentials should only be done when driving very slowly and in a straight line!!!!!! Learn from my mistakes... Best is to leave the front axle open and let BTC do its thing!
If BTC is enabled on the front axle...
A fantastic reminder for those who only do this once or twice a year.
Thank you.
I'm of the opionion that a torque biasing differential like a true track with BTC would be really good.
Torsen diffs can only transfer available torque though - so if one wheel is in the air, it has effectively zero torque, which can be transferred!
@@TC-V8 The brake traction control applies the brake to the wheel that is in the air and it can transfer tq just fine.
If only BTC system was accurate in keeping wheel speeds within a very close speed on all 4 wheels to allow only minimal rotation differences say 5kph rotation speed differences.
The best ones are
Would be very interesting to test the effects of different brake pad beands/ friction formulations on how well BTC works? I can imaging pads with better bite and higher friction coefficient enabling BTC to work more effectivly/powerfully.
Possibly...but I don't think it'd make a huge difference as the brakes clamp pretty quick and hard anyway, and it's a closed-loop system.
@L2SFBC The amount of wheel torque that can be transfered across an axle is directly proportional to the friction coefficient of the friction material.
Some cheap pads fade badly, so when they get hot, they can drop to 0.1 mu from a nominal of 0.4 mu, 75% less torque!
The steeper the hill, the more this might be a problem?
@TC-V8 I don't think they'd get that hot. Not like slowing a car of mass 2500kg down from 100 to 0. It's one wheel briefly so much less energy.
Thanks for this excellent video, finally it is all clear to me.
Glad it helped!
My Pajero has a rear locker, and with a traction control mod allows traction control to work on front when rear engaged. A very effective solution.
Definitely, keen to demonstrate this mod if I can get hold of Pajero to show it!
Where can one put his hands on such mod? :)
Cronos or Pajero Club, Vlad Traction control mod. Suits Gen 4 Pajero s with and without rear diff lock.
Interesting video. Thx for posting. I’m surprised with the Prado, the TC still operates with the rear locker engaged? I own a GX Prado so now factory locker. If I was to fit a locker, best front or rear ?
Cheers
Ah, the ultimate campfire debate! A rear doesn't restrict steering but won't pull you up and the rear diff is stronger. The front reverses those advantages. Prados don't have the strongest front diffs so I'd go rear, but there are good reasons to go front...
@@L2SFBC thx for reply and info 👍
Very interesting. Thanks for the great job. Was also under the impression that my BTC in the front doesn’t work when I engage my factory rear locker in my Prado GXL. Is it not he case? Cheers Falk
I wouldn't bother fitting a locker for a 150 series prado. The TC is already so good.
As far as I'm aware, when the factory rear diff lock (GXL spec and above) on the Prado 150 is engaged, the electronic traction control system is automatically disabled - by Toyota design. But with an aftermarket rear diff lock fitted to a GX which has an open rear diff, this would mean that you will have the best of both worlds. 🙂
Great video. Would be interested to see how ATBs compare.
Was just about to ask the same question. I have a TD5 with ATBs front and rear. Always thought that if I had BTC it would make them even better.
Great demonstrations!
Twin locks FTW!
sometimes....
Most vehicles only have active BTC up to about 15mph, after that it won't work. this is on a per wheel basis as far as I can work out, it shows in the last vehicle's climb clip that the font wheel was spinning fast with no actual effect, the BTC worked on the rear axle and it got up the obsticle. Older vehicles might also only have BTC on the rear axle. The best BTC I've found for it's age is a Wabco D on a P38 Range Rover with a stated working speed of 100kmh/62mph. I presume the other Wabco D varients also have this speed, but can't find documentation to support this.
No, BTC does work beyond 15mph, it's an integral part of ESC. Not heard of it only working on the rear in older vehicles?
Very informative video👍👍 Kindly advise how to drive a Jimny in soft sand . From jimny utube videos I noticed if BTC is disabled , it comes back on if the vehicle takes momentum and over a certain speed . Many resort to removing the fuse or jumping the BTC wire triggering the maintenance mode . I would appreciate your suggestions for driving a Jimny in soft sand . Thanks again
I have a video on that EXACT topic! Take a look ruclips.net/video/MHPGaDfCIwo/видео.html
Wow this was great! I have a Land Rover Discovery series 2 and I swear that old traction control system is set up so well because I'm watching some of the stuff on here thinking I could pull up to each and every one of those and stop and take off and it would make it as good or better than anything in the video. I mean I'm running 33 inch mud terrain tires aired down to about 20 lb so I guess that means a lot but also I think the Land Rover traction control is pretty strong compared to other brand even for a 2002 model
Wouldn't be too confident about your D2..wait for the bigger comparo on the way!
The camera flattens things out, these are much steeper than they look
Correct!
Still fascinated about saying cross axle crap . It’s a diff lock end of story.
Centre or not? Refer to the recent post on my FB, you'll see the term is not new and widely used. There's also inter-axle locking differentials...you can't say to someone "lock your diff" unless you're clear which one. Front, rear and centre may work in a 4x4, but when it comes to a 6x6 you need another set of terms.
Didn't see a 6x6 in these videos. Cross Axle Locker term was not consistently used in the video so confusing to the audience. Simple is best. Front, Rear, Centre Diff Lock on a 4x4.
facebook.com/RobertPepperJourno/posts/pfbid02b1soYNW5DgX8G7KjxH1usVDRygwSSgQGtzMCVpKAfXvtX8QZvLHAAFXZ9DewrH7Ll
@@L2SFBC widely used by who ?? You seem to be the only one . Trying to sound more educated
I'm trying to be clear about what I mean. Refer to that thread above and you'll see a wide range of views from a lot of very experienced people across many different countries, truckers included. There is no complete agreement, but "cross-axle lockers" is generally agreed to be a useful and descriptive term, so I'll continue to use it in order to differentiate between those and centre differential lockers. The same term should carry over to 6x6, 8x8, 6x4 and whatever else, it would otherwise be confusing. However, the term "cross axle locking differential" is quite long, so a with most long terms, it can be abbreviated after first use to "lockers".
On some vehicles, engaging the factory rear diff lock automatically disengages the electronic traction control, which makes no sense at all.
It's done to protect the driveline, but I don't agree with the logic, brake traction control helps control wheelspin and means less need for momentum so I feel it has the reverse effect.
@@L2SFBC How is disconnecting front BTC said to protect the driveline upon engaging Rear Diff? Toyota LC300 GRS apparently does this so presumably their is some evidentiary basis. OTOH do people modify 4WD to restore front BTC when rear diff is locked?
@@davidlewington3324 I'm no expert for sure, but I don't see how disconnecting BTC can protect the drive line.. I have seen a few videos where IFS Toyota 4WDs ( Tacoma, 4Runner? not sure) snap a front axle. This seems to happen when they apparently did not have A-Trac switched on. Since it happened each time when 1 tire was lifted quite high in the air, and is spinning at high speed. Then the vehicle finally finds enough traction to lurch forward, and the spinning wheel drops suddenly onto a high traction surface, like rock. Snap. Wouldn't the vehicle be better protected if the spinning wheel had a brake applied before it ever got up to a dangerously high speed? Even if the rear axle was locked? In addition to likely providing for improved traction? But, they have a reason I suppose. I wonder what it is?
@@BillyBobTup Ah okay thanks, food for thought. I am no expert either but can only hypothesize it may have something to do with power (drive/ work) suddenly being restored to the grounded wheel and when the airborne wheel hits the ground, it too has more power to exert, and there would be a snapping or jerking moment. Note I am talking about Power (work done) not rotational force (torque). The spinning wheel in the air can be spinning fast or slow but still not generating much power through the axle or either wheel. Power = Torque x Angular Velocity in this setting. Therefore, in an open differential (in this case the front cross axle), if one wheel is in the air and freely spinning, the other wheel which isn't rotating isn't transmitting any Power to the ground (as Angular Velocity = 0, despite Torque being still present). Once BTC kicks in (kick being the operative word) that situation changes and maybe imposes a sudden load on the axle (and not directly correlated to how fast the airborne wheel is spinning at time of ground strike). *IF* I am even vaguely on track (pun) a mech engineer could explain it better ( I have some undergrad physics and post grad biomechanics). Like Feynman said, if it disagrees with experiment it is wrong, so I can only imagine Toyota has tested (experiment) whatever the theory/hypothesis is.Now, under the above scenario, in the case of a vehicle with front and rear lockers, it now becomes more understandable why they would disable BTC especially since you have front and rear lockers to deploy instead, albeit less steering when front locker deployed. Dunno 🙂
I appreciate your very informative video on this subject.
In my older model Jeep Cherokee the only traction aid was the factory LSD in the rear axle which is totally useless once a back wheel lifts off the ground.
To overcome this I fitted Lunchbox Lockers both front & rear because they don't bind up the cross axles when turning, basically unspool the outside wheel when steering.
The only downside I've experienced with these types of locker is I can't use the option of using Full-time 4WD but because they always in use I never really know how much traction I actually have.
That's a mechanical automatic locker. I don't like them, much prefer manual ones you can control so they don't lock up when you don't want them to.
I do understand that totally and after using both selectable air & electric you could think that, horses for courses. But in my case I mainly use it for hardcore off-roading I've personally witnessed so often axle failures because the selectable locker's load up CV's /Uni Joints when traction is required when trying to change direction and to accomplish that often drivers forget to disengage the front locker.
My first experience with traction aids in a 4WD was fitting Torsen Centres in my Hi-Lux in the early 80's after having one fitted in my Coswort Escort for Rallying in 1974, a game changer.
@@aljeeper3292 when you refer to Torsen centres is that the same as a (Eaton) Trutrac?
Cheers
One of the group I used to go hill climbing with had a Pajero with only an LSD on the rear. He got in a situation on the side of hill where trying to go either forward or backwards just slid him closer to the edge (about a fifty meter drop). After tying him off to a tree, I got him to put the hand brake on moderately hard, after which he was able to drive forward quite easily. The tie-off turned out to be unnecessary, but I felt better knowing that if the worst happened he wasn't going to disappear over the edge. An LSD needs some pressure on both wheels to lock the clutch pack, especially as they wear and become less useful. Using the handbrake to force the clutch pack to engage was the usual recommendation in those cases, but of course it is less than ideal and should only be used briefly in extreme situations like this.
Pajeros used to have a rear locker, but they swapped it out for an LSD to make the new vehicle cheaper when they realised that the people buying them were mostly using them as a shopping cart or to take the kids to soccer...
An excellent comment, thank you and 100% agreed! Pajeros also had a poor BTC system that gave up after a while, so you'd want the rear locker on for long climbs.
BTC is a reactive system. Axle lockers are a proactive system. Different driving styles are need to get the best use from each system and both systems can be equally effective when the correct driving style is applied.
Not all BTC is reactive. There are conditions when it proactively assists before slip is encountered ( in Land Rover systems anyway).
@@jerrymyahzcat Yes all BTC systems are reactive. It’s how they operate. Land Rovers with terrain response will certainly react extremely quickly but they are still a reactive system. A diff lock would be a proactive system. You can have it locked before you use it. BTC will only react after it has activated a sensor.
So Robert, if my 150 Prado already has a factory rear locker (2016), is it a good idea to install a front (either air or electric) locker?
My understanding is , when rear locker engaged in 150, it will disable BTC at the same time.
There is a hack to get around it but I am not comfortable with that idea.
I am planning to install an air front locker next month or so, but want to get your opinion first.
The 2017 Prado Grande I tested had BTC on the front axle with the rear locker engaged. However Toyota is not consistent in how that is applied. I've got Hill of Truth videos with that Prado which appears briefly in this video. I would only add the front locker if you find you are doing a lot of hilly rocky work and really need it.
@@L2SFBC to be honest I probably only do it once or twice per year.
But I kind of having this idea to "fully built" my Prado.
Do you see any down side to get a after market front locker?
No I don't and it'd improve offroad capability and give you more options.
Sometimes you just need it to work, not wait for even one second - because then you can slide away from the intended route - and this is why I love lockers more than any traction system. I put a rear electric locker in my Jimny, lived with it for quite a while, and then went on and put a front one. It just works beautifully, and much more safer in certain conditions, if you ask me.
Fair points
You’ve clearly not experienced Land Rover Terrain Response. Wheel rotation (spinning) is detected and is halted within ⅛ of a wheel rotation. None of this crazy spinning malarkey of other vehicles.
And having decent TC and Not using lockers actually allows greater control as each wheel can be given what it needs instead of being locked in place and forced to match the rotation of the other side. I prefer decent 4 wheel TC that’s works, over lockers.
@@jerrymyahzcat I will not argue with other people's experience since it can be really great what you are talking about, sounds very interesting. I just say that for what I do with rock climbing, I'd rather have them both locked with constant power to them because they never failed me and acted as I have planned with the route I have taken.
Robert, how do you compare the performance of front limited slip diffs (like a TruTrac or an Ashcroft torque bias diff) to BTC?
Excellent question. It depends on the quality of either. BTC has the advantage of never impeding turning, whereas any LSD has a pre-load which does impact differential operation and therefore turning. One can argue the LSD's preload is an advantage, but modern BTC is so good that advantage is now negated. Overall, I'd prefer BTC. You can see a front and rear LSD in action on this truck - ruclips.net/video/gAljVxg_C5w/видео.html
The TrueTrac being a helical LSD will mean that once it lifts a wheel it is effectively an open diff. I had a wavetrac which is a helical but with clutch plates to lock when it sensed that it was 'opening up' and thus eliminating the issue that helical LSDs have.
Just so you know, the video in which Robert references the LSD's on the front and rear of the truck; it has the standard OEM Isuzu clutch pack LSD in the rear differential, while the front differential has been fitted with an aftermarket Quaife ATB differential. The front differential can be seen working very well at approximately the 22' 20" mark.
Very useful demo, thank you
You are welcome!