One Doesn't Survive: Milwaukee's New M12 Gen 4 M18 Drivers
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2022
- Lifetime updated tool rankings: torquetestchannel.etsy.com Since I've been asked several time, the knife is a japanese Mcusta: amzn.to/3dG6R17 Today we try out the all new Milwaukee FUEL M12 3453 impact driver, Gen 4 M18 2953 impact driver and see how they compare to everyone's favorite the 2853-20.
Not everything goes according to plan, but hey - that's life. We show you either way.
~Links may include affiliate links, which we earn some % from sales on~
Torque, who started TTC, is working in product development for Astro Tools who doesnt make impact drivers at the moment. TTC is not the only testing out there, always consider multiple sources when looking at a tool! 
Авто/Мото
I think that we are reaching a point where technology in motor and impact drive have exceeded the capability of the metals that we are using. It's hard to blame the bit, that's a ton of power on a 1/4" piece of metal.
I agree.
Deploy adamantium bits
Maybe the 7/16 drive the utility companies use will be the answer, I doubt it but I love tools the more the merrier.
We have long exceeded that point imo, even a DCF 887, a 10yo construction, destroys 1/4" adapters. Imo there should be a new, larger tool standard introduced, or just used really, I believe we already have 3/8" hex bits, but not commonly used.
@@TorqueTestChannel Do you have links to all the charts for everything you have tested? It would be really nice to be able to quickly reference the actual numbers of this stuff.
Negative 16 subs on this video so far, we don't make the tools guys, just test 'em! :P We obviously would have preferred it survive through testing so we could have clean data on this one. We purchased a replacement, and we along with others will be trying to find out if its possible to break it again and how. Doing various tasks. We'll post a link here for that. If it's a fluke, that's worth knowing as much as anything else.
Torque who started this channel is working for Astro Tools who dont make anything like an impact driver, though it's still worth knowing when watching videos like these. Always look to several sources!
Just noise, wouldn't worry about it too much
Minus subs 🤣 why are you watching this channel if you don't want the facts
A shame people would unsubscribe because their favorite tool sucked or broke. Your channel has been the best at really finding out what is a good product and what is not. Keep it up, and hope we see Torque again, but everyone is great.
Even the most objective possible testing isn't acceptable if Milwaukee loses. You're expected to lie and feel good about it. Come on!
@@Lee-lb9qh take your TDS elsewhere
I think it's about time that we switch to 5/16 collets and bits, but I guess it's not as big an issue when you're actually using them to drive screws
I think 5/16" hex should have been used from the start 5/16" bits already exist, such as hand impact drivers. But you're right what we're doing here leans towards the stupid side vs how they are most often used. That said, most of the other drivers didn't mind the abuse
I'd love to see this and 5/16 to 1/4 extension adapters. Lately, I rather like using relatively short 1/4" hex extensions with the cheap to replace 1" long tips.
This is a thing:
(1) M18 FUEL™ 7/16" Hex Utility HTIW w/ ONE-KEY™ (Tool Only)(2865-20)
They know how to make other size hex collets. And how to charge a lot for anything that fits in them.
Any more power than necessary is wasted.
@@WilReid I have been looking into this very item. You can get a 7/16 hex drill drill adapter. The already have 7/16 auger bits and hole saws.
I knew it, I knew I shouldn't buy the new M18 until your video came out. I follow a ton of other channels and no disrespect to them but I wasn't about to buy one without seeing what you found. This channel rocks!
Most other channels are just hypemen for companies lol. The M12 looks better than my Gen2 M12 by a significant margin though, I enjoy it.
You waited for what?…Inclusive. No fault of there own.
@@steffendetrick9403 ?
@@AlexDenton0451 Looks better or performs better?
@@euphoricmonk Performance wise, I actually cover up might light on my M12 due to it being easy to hook my index finger on.
If you can get this one, get it, if you have a M12 already, be happy with it.
Seeing the prior gen M12 would be interesting!
I was more excited about the lighting on the nose than improvements in power/speed. I think that when Milwaukee asked the trades guys what they wanted to see in a new impact lighting was the most requested. I know that's what I would have asked for. The older gen stuff already had plenty of power given the 1/4 hex drive. I work in plenty of dark places and the extra light would be helpful
@@Lee-lb9qh Milwaukee calls it innovation tough lol
@@Lee-lb9qh you're right, however I've used both the 887 and the m12 gen 2 and I like the form factor of the m12 better. It's a personal preference and it's even nicer now that I can have the best of both worlds
@@Lee-lb9qh not only that but Dewalt is smaller in size.
Same here, but after watching this I'm sticking with my gen 3 and flashlight. The lights alone aren't worth spending the cash if you own a last gen mode, IMHO.
Thanks for making this video I was considering getting the M12 fuel because I love my cordless ratchet and thought I could share batteries but looks like I’ll need to get an M18 and use same charger for the 12 battery with the ratchet.
It would be nice to see a comparison between the new m12 vs the previous model
I just bought the new and have an old and was thinking the same thing. I’m gonna do a video on the two soon. Insane difference. There is pros and cons for both.
@@unclejacksyoutube6496 waiting on that review
Do it
What's going to happen is they're going to make these drivers too powerful and the supporting hardware wont handle it.i think its time they focus on durability and not outright power.
You can turn down power though
If you're referring to adapters then the answer is pretty black and white where at that point you buy a proper impact that doesn't require an adapter.
BLASPHEMOUS WORDS BRÖTHR, MOAR BEANS FOR THE BEANS GOD
Seems the collets cant take the torque either.
Obviously one industry is going to try to keep up with the other it's not anything to lose sleep over
Bought a M12 impact driver 3/8 drill combo years back. Instantly hooked. With the bitty batteries, my young kids could help out by driving deck screws into the fence and whatnot. At the point now where I think I will have to get into a M18 impact wrench for auto work.
I love my M12 fuel gen 3 drill and impact driver combo kit. It took everything I threw at it. I used that impact driver on 8 inch medium lags in one sitting and used up 2 bars of battery left on an xc3.0 and the anvils only got as warm as a stack of fresh copies from a photocopier at the end. Same thing with driving 100 3 inch coarse thread wood screws with the heads recessed in one sitting.
I got the m12 and m18 drill/driver and I honestly use the m12 impact and the m18 drill for electrical rough in. It's cool having both
I have the gen 3 m12. Its awesome with 1/4 drive sockets. I use it for top engine stuff. I also have the 3/8 stubby m12 impact, and I usually go for the driver for most lighter stuff. Its also awesome for just general stuff around the house. If you want I can lend you the gen 3 m12.
Interesting stuff! Thanks for showing the pitfalls as well!
I think what I'm learning is that the M12 offerings are becoming more and more capable. The M18 platform has always had the capability. But, now the light-weight and compactness of the M12 doesn't come with as much of a power loss. You might go through batteries a lot faster with them, but you're not really lacking power anymore.
I just got the 3453 M12 for under dash work on passenger cars and it’s working very well for that job. Not a screwdriver, I know but this is versatile enough to get the job done.
Im a carpenter and work in a commercial building atm. I have the m12 and love it, so do my coworkers. The main selling point is how light it is. At the end of the day all we are doing is putting small screws in steel framing and drywall screws lol. Get the appropriate tool for the right job.
Saturday relaxed, almost buying the ultimate tech from Milwaukee, until I stopped to watch your video, by far, the best choice are the 2018 models MILWAUKEE 2853-20 M18 FUEL & MILWAUKEE 2804-20 M18 FUEL. Both tools are in eBay 89.99 each from many sellers. Thanks bro, I love your channel!
I have the m12. And let me tell you. It’s my favorite impact. Very light weight and powerful. Just feels good
Even this model #?
Keep up the great work, really appreciate all your hard work
Appreciate you saying so!
Also, I have a modifiend Ridgid 3.0ah octane battery. Swapped the cells out to make it a 4.2ah pack, and increased the continuous amperage from 35A to 45A. Planning on swapping the cells on one of my m12 batteries soon.
solidified my thoughts… i’ll be happy to keep my gen3 m12 and picking up gen3 m18’s on sale! good vid!
I'm a M12 guy. I like the small compactness of it and it fits well in my tool bag. Disappointed in the M12 here!
This channel is the reason why i havent try to get the Gen 4, awaiting Torques Channel test and input...in conclusion i will hold off for now and use my gen3's
I have the M18 and LOVE it. It's the most powerful Stubby drill you can get plus tri-led and very lightweight. Very hard to find just walking in a store and won't be on display either. Easy to find on-line. All the guys at work are jealous!!
Having such a high torque impact driver seems pointless to me. The fact that it breaks the bits so easily kind of verifies that feeling. I have an M12 Fuel Impact driver (gen 3) that I use for screws and bolts/nuts that I can use with 1/4 drive (generally up to 13mm tops), and an M12 Fuel 3/8” drive impact for bigger stuff. The 1/4 hex driver is good for small stuff that probably needs less then 30ft*lbs, and I use the 3/8” drive for bigger stuff. No bits to break, it’s more compact in actual usage since it doesn’t need the long bit to work. Yes, it’s another tool to buy, but $120 for a tool that you use every day is nothing for a professional.
Glad to see what dealing with returns would be like.
Thank you for another fantastic video! 🙏
Glad I saw this
My gen 3 impact driver is still going strong
I think they made the m12 gen 2 and 3 so good it's gonna be hard to top it . Like other commenters said they should probably focus more on durability , usability and versatility rather than just sheer power at this point .
But then again power claims make tools fly off the shelves so that's what the marketing department is gonna push.
Thanks this video just saved me some money on buying that new m12 impact driver.
Wow two videos in 2 days! Nice!
I love it when you break a tool! Manufacturers beware, this tool is going to get tested AND most users of your tools will know everything. Better make them good! Thanks for another great video.
The company that makes those adapters must love you all
Since you tried out the latest m12 impact driver, is there anyway you can test out the other two m12 impact drivers that Milwaukee has to offer?
Thanks for GIVING your opinion on picking the Gn3 over the Gn4 I just needed to hear that before going to home depot
always appreciate the metric unit , thx
I think you have to use the XC battery to get the numbers the manufacturer states, that got noticed on VCG construction, the no power issue will be the solder has melted on one of the joints, i used to get this on the original sawzall all the time, im not overly happy with the milwaukee tools currently, and seeing the new ones are not improved alot if at all on the old is even more of a reason to wait a bit longer for the new shiny tool. Having a better light isnt enough to upgrade.
Wow, some pretty surprising results.
I have Apex,snap on and proto bit adapters and have not broken or twisted one yet.Although I dont quite use them as hard as you do,I think personally an apex or snap on adapter would be a good idea.Apex EX-370-B-4.It is only 3/8 drive though,not sure if they have 1/2 inch drive.They are extremely rugged though and have a very thick shaft.Once you need 1/2 drive it really makes sense to use an impact wrench anyway.
Is the answer none of them survive?
I’m a big Milwaukee fan, I’ve also had my m12 impact break driving in a sheet rock screw, and my m18 broke when I tried to break free my crank bolt.
I was pretty sure it wasn’t going to be stout enough, but for the tool to break simply from trying to loosen a bolt, well, I thought that was the tools job.
I've been having the same issues with milwaukee tools and batteries failing on me, but seems to be the newer tools having problems.
When are you planning on redoing this test? I'm holding off on upgrading just because of this video. Also eagerly awaiting your M12 5.0 HO battery review before pulling the trigger. Is it a big improvement over the 6.0XC? Thanks for this channel!
Thumbs up for the tri light! Hell ya
That m12 one is 99 bucks with a battery and charger at Home Depot I just picked one up. Excited
The DCF850 is short as hell, and doesn't break minutes in. ...Hard to say what the best impact you should buy is.
850 with a power stack is hard to beat when it comes to compactness and lightness
Ahh the Yellow Makita i still love that thing, although it was a pain in the ass to get it to Europe
I have an M12 2551-20 impact driver. I also have Bosch and a Porter Cable impact drivers. Like my recent project where I needed to drive just short of a thousand 3-1/2" #12 deck screws (Torx bits used), the M12 was the one I reached for. Granted, I'm 80 years old, but its light weight, smooth operation with plenty of torque to drive the screws with a handy hook for my pocket so it was where I was when I needed it, was a winning combination. I've zero need for more torque in an impact driver. The ability to twist off adaptors is not a feature. I have the M12 3/8" drive stubby for that, and the 2767-20 (my only M18 tool though the 3/8" drive Mid Torque is at the top of my list) for when I need to remove really stuck stuff.
I wonder if u can change the anvil on this impact to a 1/2. Like the old one. I wonder if it would be better then the gen 3 1/4 m18 1/2 anvil swap.
This is interesting, I haven't experienced many issues with my m18 tools honestly, I've still got my gen 3.0 impact driver going strong and yes it still tries to drop bits but I've known this lol.
My go to driver is actually my m12 surge hydraulic impact, I've simply fallen in love with it's portability to power ratio.
I would love to see some tests on the hydraulic impacts!
This m12 doesn't hesitate when putting in #10 3.5" wood screws, it might be a smidge slower than the m18 but it really is quiet and when you're only putting in 3-5 screws? Who cares.
I just don't think its wise to run 1/2" adapters on an impact driver and use larger sockets. Regardless if it can or not. I've ruined 1 impact driver doing that and partially ruined a chuck on another one making bits not stay in well. One reason why they sell impact nut drivers only up to about 5/8 or so.
was gonna say this same thing and I was thinking maybe the new design cant handle that big of socket or spin it with enough torque and speed to show the real results.
This is why I bought a 1/2" m18. Was worried about my 3/8" m12 that almost always was used with an adapter surviving.
When Milwaukee tells ya it's too new to warranty tell them you don't have the box to return it. I had the jobsite speaker quit working within a month and they told me the same thing. I told them I didn't have the box because I didn't expect a Milwaukee tool to die that quickly.
I’ve been HUGELY Disappointed with Home Depot’s return/ exchange/ warranty process on a Milwaukee tool also. #(2880)
WITH receipt. And UNDER the 90 days specified on said receipt.
They told me, “Milwaukee doesn’t let us ‘exchange’ them.. so I have to refund your money, and you just have to buy it again.”
🤯 Hmm.. wonder how many of those sales figures of theirs come from instances like this? 🤔
Sort of a workaround into fudging the numbers if you ask me.
If Mil won't allow HD to exchange, why are you blaming HD for the inconvenience?
Great test to find the weak link, but personally I use a small 1/2 impact for large screws.
Basically got my m12 driver for free. Home Depot is running a m12 high speed ratchet and hex driver plus two batteries and charger for $250… that’s cheaper than the ratchet and battery combo alone.
I use impact drivers every day and I think they have become more than powerful enough. What matters to me is ergonomics, weight, reliability and smoothness. In that instance, I think the Dewalt DCF850 takes the cake. The M12 would be my choice for smaller jobs.
This is why I never run my Makita on 4....breaks too much stuff
Thanks for the video
I think you should test out the new Metabo HPT Bolt wh36dc. I have a Japanese import of it. It's a newer 36v, not the original triple hammer.
Looking forward to the follow up on this one and if the failure can be duplicated. Yikes, new Milwaukee not so reliable, possible....
My impact of choice is always M12 size, weight, and performance. Then new Gen is worth it imo it feels faster and more powerful. However we are reaching the point where the tool will break themselves unless they use better materials
The hilti SID 2-A is the nicest impact driver I have used, not the most powerful but that's what I love about it. It offers far more control with better trigger sensitivity and a more consistent trigger. If I want more power I grab an impact wrench. edit: Also it doesn't snap socket adapters nearly as much as my 2853-20.
Have you tried the newer brushless sid2-a12 ? Amazing.
@@vojnikjna30 SID 2A-12 is definitely a nice upgrade from the SID 2-A. SID -2 Extremely slow but smooth. Have both including the SID 4 and SID 6 Any Hilti product is phenomenal period!!
Love your knife. Good Japanese steel there.
I'm glad I bought the gen-3(2853-20). And if I was buying the M12, it would be the Surge. Quieter, smoother, and still enough to drive screws.
Did I miss a re-test on the Gen 4 M18? Very curious whether that was just bad luck or whether we have another case of a new design that's got some serious problems.
Sound like a "right tool for the right job" situation to me. When I bought my m12 Hydraulic Impact, I choose that one over the standard Gen 3 because it was lighter, quieter, and smaller, even though the marketing admitted it made less peak inch pounds over the standard Gen 3 impact. My reasoning was, I was going to use this tool to install coax cable on house eves every day using cable clips with 1 inch screws, the tool was going to be used over my head almost always in uncomfortable spaces and positions and I wanted comfort over power.
Trust me when you get draw the short stick and get nothing but old post wire homes and you gotta replace over 1000 feet of cable with a heavy drill, you're going to want to run to your van to cry for a little when you cant steady arm to get that last screw clip in.
Amazing. All that hype from Milwaukee for this?
Now, I'm really curious how the Flex does with 3.5 and 6.0 stacked batteries.
Great testing, as usual!
Team Red is Dead. Flex already said it, they are what’s next.
Yeah I am disappointed in this new shit that dosnt even compete with the old. Damn RED get it together!
@@athannaelanderson3806Milwaukee is far from dead.
Some times it's not all about HP but functionality M12 is a fraction of the weight compared to the M18 so running deck screws all day I would definitely consider the M12
This! Milwaukee been done perfected the impact driver with the m18 Surge. I haven’t seen a person use a regular impact driver since that came out.
M12 surge is far superior m18 surge, same power and sound, half the size.
The new M12 hammer drill when I was using it with a nylon wire cupped brush after 3-5 minutes shut off and flashed 4 lights indicating that it over heated. Somewhat disappointed considering I have a 12v Bosch that does not shut off on a lockout.
I’m guessing these safety features are for adding more power and presetting the safety temp limit cutoff low enough so warranty claims diminish quite a bit.
I use an m12 surge impact at work because it still getser done and it’s nice on my ears, do you have a video with the m12 vs m18 surge at max battery? And maybe also do a decibel test and show both torque and decibel information on the same graph
Max battery as in the biggest battery you can put on each respective tool
Thinking about getting the gen4, any luck with the replacement your ordered from homedepot?
7:09 wow I was considering selling my Milwaukee gen3.5 impact driver and get a gen4 that just confirmed my decision, I’ll stick with the gen3.5!
I'd like to see a test with the battery-powered Metabo 1/2" drive.
Thanks
Gen 3 M12 user here. I only use the HO 2.5Ah/30w & 5.0Ah/60w. I feel a very clear difference between my 2.5Ah and 5.0Ah batteries. I also have a m12 3/8" impact wrench and of course notice a very clear difference between the two batteries when applied. I have 100% power on the 2.5Ah batteries until I lose a quarter of battery charge. While the 5.0Ah batteries seem to give 100% power until I lose half of the battery charge. I'd love to see some tests on these new batteries, specifically the 5.0Ah/60w.
Went to Summit Racing in Ohio and they have the greatest Milwaukee display I have ever seen.
This is an appreciation comment for Wendy from Home Depot 😳😍🥰
I saw the brushless bauer impact in the list but I don't remember seeing that video. Was that a little hint at a video to come?
The husky adapters are very strong I would recommend them.
If you guys are interested in testing a 2553 and a 2462 (old brushed M12 driver), what would the turnaround time be like?
They are not interested.People want to see new stuff to make an informed purchase.
If it's the M12 that dies, I'm gonna need someone to torture test the M12 drill, the actually compelling part of that duo.
I wonder if the impact bricked itself after getting jammed up? I have no idea how it would know that but it seems suspicious how it died. Maybe after detecting so many trigger pulls with no movement it shut itself down. That's not too crazy to believe given the new drills have kickback protection. Or maybe some component just blew up. Given the way impacts work maybe they have no jam up motor protection given that they shouldn't ever jam up and it fried itself.
Im sure they dont self destruct on purpose.
@@djsi38t not so much self destruct but disable itself. Sound crazy? Think again. Some Makita batteries count the number of times it couldn't be charged due to a battery fault and after so many shut itself down.
It's an electronics failure. All these brushless have mini motherboards (I prefer sticking with brushed), it probably overheated given the symptoms show.
any chance you can check out the makita 12v ratchet WR100DZ and the 12v brushless 3/8 impact gun DTW180Z i use both on a daily basis and find them to be great vs milwaukees stubby 12v gun and high speed ratchet but would love to see the rankings !! much love from australia
Yes please want to see makita 12v ratchet
I know it's not really what you do, but I would love to see a tear down comparison between the Gen 3 and Gen 4. Whatever they changed for the Gen 4, it breaks down easily and often when used on larger fasteners. Which is weird since the new Hercules impact driver seems to be the same impact as the Gen 4, but it doesn't have any of the same issues.
So, would your recommend the M12 3453, or the previous generation M12 Surge? Will there be a new M-12 Surge?
My dewalt shit out finally and just reaks so
Bad I was like finally time for the m18 . Got it today and now came across this and was so upset . Like oh no there is a new one , of course ! But other than the lights I’m very very happy with my purchase . Also this thing is so strong compared to the old dewalt I had . Also have the battery lights is great
Well then, that settles that. I’ll be going back and grabbing one of the last 3 on clearance at the depot tomorrow
Can you guys do a drill video? I sometimes need to cut holes with a big spade bit or punch through aluminum and steel. RPM matters a lot, and I am dubious about many claims
You can use impacts for spade bits, the torque of a big drill is outright dangerous when working in tight spaces in weird positions. Impacts will not work nearly as fast as a huge drill but they get the job done without the employees going on sickleave with wrist injury. I got the XGT hammer drill, awesome power in high gear, but thats for big concrete bits, wouldnt use it for spades unless its in easy spots and then with the side handle attached.
ProjectFarm has done at least one drill video. I personally really like his tests and they often line up with the findings here.
Nice to see a glimpse of the warranty process and that you can get a refund for it. Nothing sucks more than trying to warranty something and just get silence, or worse get your review censored for being "too negative."
*cough* Amazon *cough* *cough*
I guess we will have to wait for a Gen 4.1 or 4.5. So much for quality control
I'm happy with my gen3 and the last M12 driver they put out. Except the trigger on the m12, sometimes it doesn't go full bean's, u gotta mess with it alittle
Not impressive for 2 new models!
So how does the new M12 stack up against the previous model? I don’t see a lot of sense in comparing it to 18v tools.
This is what I've always wondered about those Pipeline event samples they send those attendants home with. Even if they are the same, how many of those guys would show one of these tools sh*@tting the bed like this? I'm sure some would, but the one guy whose driver eats it, after being flown out and attending that stuff for multiple day. I dunno if it always makes the cut...
Just want to point out that Jim Davis of Philly Fixed and Brian Hofmeister of WorkshopAddict have repeatedly done highly critical reviews of stuff they've been provided.
I've noticed the new m12 drill set retails for cheaper than the gen 3 which is interesting
Amazon Japan corded impact drivers? Any interest? For price I just horde the Ryobi CID-1130. Grid tolerance is good. They do run a bit warm after a big job.
With the power these things are making, i'm suprised that someone hasn't started trying to push 5/16 or 3/8 hex chuck model.
Problem is 99 percent of bits are 1/4 inch.
This is going to be good
Milwaukee are notorious for overpowering products to beat competition.
My mate had a Milwaukee impact driver that constantly broke bits.
Even my expensive Wera bits. They only last a day
This new little M12 seems like a nice contender to DeWalts newish DCF840. Would like to see how that little buddy does
I think most 20V tools would beat the M12. We need to add like 2-3 12V tools at once to see where it really lands.
@@TorqueTestChannel well I do say this in regards of the more slim, but long profile of it and the 840. I bought my 840 to replace my 5 year old 815 and is my go to for small underhood components and especially under the dash
@@TorqueTestChannel see if Man Caber Tools will lend you his DeWalt and Hilti 12v drivers.
I picked up the gen 3 18v in a pack out case with 2 3ah high output or whatever the 21700 cells and a charger on clearance for like $150 or $125 I don't remember it was a great deal
Can ya'll do the normal kobalt 24v driver? I know contractors use the xtr line but a lot of households have just the normal 24v brushless
I kinda figured that about the m18 honestly. The specs are too similar to the previous generation. The m12 was a surprise that it did so poorly, but again, it’s really out of its league on that particular chart. Mine does great on cabinet hardware, but that’s more of its intended purpose lol.
The M12 is overkill for most impact driver jobs. I use the 7.2v Makita impact driver for pretty much everything. Its funny, in my shop i got pretty almost all the goodies from the XGT lineup and quite a few other powertools but the only tool my visitors are talking about afterwards is the 7.2v impact driver.
Bosch 12v are way better for cabinet work. They have power but it’s so refined and a joy to work with. No I don’t work for them and actually my big 18v tools are all Milwaukee. Snap-On makes crap pliers/wire strippers but still charge $8k for one. Usually to get a perfect tool set, you find the best variation from the right company. Lineman = Klein. Plumbing = Knipex. All the rest pliers = Channellock. 18v = Milwaukee. But 12v = Bosch by far. I have big hands but that horrible m12 fat azz handle is a deal breaker. Their 12v’s aren’t that small and get into actual tight spaces.
@@pflaffik Snap-in’s outdated Ni-Cad 7.2v is still the best/smallest driver for car interior work. The newest Bosch 12v is close but it has a very fat head. M12 tools are still pretty ridiculously big and fat in all the wrong areas. Their not for close quarters work, their just for people who want slightly smaller tools I guess?! The Surge is literally the same size in m12 and m18 flavors. M18 all the way!
My M12 3/8 gun started making a weird noise, I took it apart and one of the planet gears had a broken tooth on the gear. They didn't have one in stock so they gave me a whole new gun.