Agreed, 100%. I'm team Yellow but only because I started with it and prefer to stick with a single battery platform. If I had to start over, I'd be fine with Red or Blue. Every brand and tool choice involves trade-offs. More competition is good because all get pushed forward. More choice is good because individual needs and preferences vary.
I know this is not Project Farm, but you could maybe put these hydraulic tools into a freezer and then test them when they are really cold. It is not clear how long the tool would have to "warm up" to be really useful. Being in Alaska, this is important to me. I suppose someone in a warmer climate might also like to see how the tools operate when they are really hot - I can imagine someone working outside on a hot sunny day, though it is not something I would likely encounter. The viscosities of the hydraulic fluids may vary between tool brands, and that could impact your testing.
I wanted to love Project Farm so much because I love the numbers, but everything feels so rushed, and he doesn't connect with his audience at all in his videos, so everything feels super scammy or untrustworthy.
@@austinhager7413 I'm surprised you get that impression of Project Farm. He uses a very rapid presentation style that isn't for every one (someone I know calls him 'the yelling guy'), but I don't understand the scammy bit. He responds to dozens (hundreds?) of comments for every video so I would disagree about not connecting to his audience.
@@toohardtowatch yeah I wish he'd slow down a little bit, especially since he lists the results for the people in a rush. But the guy is an absolute legend for the amount of useful information he's given us on so many different products
I am SO happy to see Dewalt finally made the quiet impact driver. Impact drivers are the most annoying tool ever. And point blank, the M18 tools are the most unreliable tools ever. I work in commercial construction, and I'm also a woodworking enthusiast. I've had at least 5 Milwaukee tools have electrical failures, under light use, due to humidity or moisture or dust exposure. I am going to be switching to all Dewalt and Flex brand tools for my home woodworking tools. I use all M18 tools at work, but I've already had 2 of the M18 hydraulic impact drivers fail. Their problem? The electronic speed control and reverse switch fails. I brought one of them in for repairs at a professional Milwaukee service center and they said you cannot repair the M18 hydraulic impact driver, the trigger mechanism is so expensive, it is more than the tool itself. The other day I picked up an M18 Sawzall that I've barely used, and I took it out of my work van, and it didn't power on at all, it was electrically dead, despite having a full battery. I tried it a few days later, and it works now. I've had this same strange intermittent failure with many M18 tools, where they are simply glitchy. Mechanically, they are very, very strong. But electrically, they aren't potting their electronics in epoxy properly, and their electronics are far too sensitive to moisture and dust.
@@starseeddeluxeI've had no issues with my M18 stuff and I work in dirt as a mechanic as well as building at home, dropped them etc and they keep going.
@@starseeddeluxesame here at work I use only Milwaukee and have had so many fail out of so little use some people they say they have bin using their Milwaukee tools for so many years and they last I don't understand for me personally at home right now I buy DeWalt they have been good so far
Good to see more hydraulic impacts on the market. The difference in noise is night and day once you get used to them. My hearing is already fucked but maybe we can do better for the next generations
as soon as milwauke start selling their hydro impact, i bout 18 and 12 volt versions. now i can work, and i refuse to work with regular impact drivers! if any brand will come out with more quainter driver i will buy it!
Dewalt R&D definitely seems to be innovative on their tool offerings last couple years. Not on their platform but definitely would consider them a top choice if changing.
@@JasonHam41 As in chucks that run true. I returned two of their higher end drills recently because the chuck was way of out true. Really unimpressed. The red brand have similar issues though I've heard.
@@reyigov7870 Milwaukee had that issue a few years back too with their 12ah packs. The balance shunts couldn't keep up and the packs ended up only being partially charged.
The main reason these hydraulic impacts are so desirable is because the CONTROL they offer. I hope dyno tests don’t encourage their downfall by convincing companies it’s all about torque. Hydraulic impacts are great BECAUSE they lack torque. However, it is encouraging to see this DeWalt up the torque without losing the low speed control. I’ve been using the Makita for years and love it! I have the M12 too and it’s great also. Hopefully they all get tested, but there NEEDS to be a subjective category for small fastener control; if cranking up the torque means a loss of control then these will serve no purpose.
Right! The m18 surge is very quiet not at peak power when impacting. Id say as quiet as a drill. The control is amazing and I’ve drove 10” screws without an issue of torque, it actually stripped the wood in 1 of them.
How could a subjective category be a useful metric for a general audience? Regardless, a reasonable person should be able to gauge "small fastener control" from the objective metrics shown here. E.g., if you want absolute maximum "small fastener control", the slower (thus gentler) Surge is probably a better choice.
Please test the Makita Oil impulse. It's my go-to. I don't need nut busting torque or fastest speed. Give me usability features, less noise and less hand fatigue. That's the ticket.
Yes, I have the Makita. I don't know if it's common with hydraulic, but my arm doesn't suffer anywhere near the same impact-fatigue after extended use, compared to a traditional impact driver, and that's enough reason for me to prefer it.
I do a lot of woodworking as a hobby and my m12 surge that I bought at an auction for $50 did absolutely everything I needed from it, mainly using it for jig assembly and the occasional pocket screw. I left it in the rain while I was working on a fence and it bricked it. I saw the price of a new one and opted to get a skil 12v kit with extra battery for half the price. The Skil does everything I need from it and has twice the power, but it's louder and not nearly as smooth. I miss my hydraulic dearly. Hydraulic's are like the perfect middle ground between a drill driver and a traditional impact driver. It's perfect for just throwing a quick and dirty jig together without having to predrill. Wonder how long til we get an ultrasonic impact driver 😂. I really want to see you guys test the torque of electric lawn mowers. I'll buy an electric mower when TTC tells me which is best.
If you still have it you could probably do a Google search and find a new circuit board, which would probably fix it. If you get something electronic wet, remove the battery if possible and do not turn it on or try to use it until it is 100% dry inside. Back in the 90s I carried a boombox around in the back of my pickup truck unprotected. I never turned it on if it had recently been wet I always let it dry out and it always worked. I've experienced this with a bunch of other electric devices. If you hit it with any power while it is still wet inside it will brick it. I've also spilled entire drinks into the keyboard of laptops and managed to save them by not trying to turn them on until they were dry. Usually you can get by with just replacing the keyboard when that happens.
I have the m12 surge and i love it, such a pleasant noise compared to a regular impact. And for regular use power has never been an issue. Not to take anything away from the dewalt, more power is rarely wrong.
@chrisleslie1988 hydraulics sound loud on camera. This Dewalt scored better than my Milwaukee. I can see dewalt took their time to bring this out but it has paid off handsomely. I have given away the Milwaukee as Dewalt is so much better.
@@Sinkorswim317 huh? I've given away my Milwaukee hydraulic? Did you think I'd given away a whole set of tools? Lol. I'm glad it's just you. I carry a mix of brands depending on the tool.
Nice. I have two of the Makita hydraulic impacts. I love them. I do occasional house service work, so I'm sure the customers prefer less noise, and I live in an apartment so I think my neighbors like it too. However they're quite a bit weaker for large screws, so I have four other regular impacts to cover that. I wouldn't pick hydraulic if I could only keep one.
@@biesbas At work I keep a regular full size, the subcompact and one oil impulse. At home I keep another oil impulse and the Japan TD172. Then at my parents place I keep a regular full size for when I need to do stuff there.
@@accordv6er My oldest is four years old and maybe a bit louder than the one year old one. However the wear gets shared between my three work drivers and the oil impact gets the most cushy work. I have however seen some really used ones (the HVAC guys love them since sound really travels in ducts) and those are really worn on the outside but seem to be working just fine. The Makita design is pretty old, it's probably a bit if a niche product since they haven't updated it in 10 years. Made in Japan though, so that's nice. I wish it had the light of the Japan only (so far) TD173.
Straight up best tool review channel on RUclips. ( By far) Appreciate all the effort and money you put into your content. We are lucky to have you. Regards, stonemason from Maine USA
I have a few Milwaukee tools, like the m12 hydraulic which is awesome for an electrician, but between all 3 makita by far has the best balanced, long lasting, batteries over red and yellow. I’ve had allot of dewalt cordless tools and have been let down to many times so I gave up. Evening broke so easily. So I now own only corroded dewalt tools like tables saws,planers, and chop saws which you can’t beat for the price, accuracy and feel. But forget the cordless stuff. Corded Milwaukee bandsaws and the mag skil saws are and have always been the best money can buy, but their battery power side lacks in allot of areas, similar to Riobi junk. Milwaukees cordless drills are heavy, way off balanced, and are not comfortable at all in the hand. Makita has it down for comfort and inmho has been the best out of those three brands hands down for many many years. Though and built to last. I’m green as well
The lower sound levels of hydraulic is nice but for me the control of tightening is the killer feature. When assembling with machine screws I want something that isn't going to over-torque everything.
8:49 both seem to be able to slow down the hits and make the hits low enough power than fine resolution is not going to heavily favor one, one just seems to have a lot more on tap above that range when full throttle
Not trying to be that guy but maybe an impact isn't the tight choice. I got a cheap 12v brushed drill that's still quick but isn't physically capable of over torquing anything. It's also got a clutch which impacts don't
I've got the 850 atomic. I use power mode one for small screws, cabinet/door hardware, junction boxes ect. Cuts off way before stripping out. But power mode three can take off lug nuts, so be careful 😂
Use an impact driver for deck screws and lag bolts, stuff like that. Not for assembling machine screws. If I ever saw you doing that in my machine shop you would introduced to your walking papers on the spot.
It's too bad Ridgid discontinued the Stealth Force, it was rated at 1,200 in-lbs vs 450 for the M12/18 Surge and honestly that's about what it feels like, about 3x stronger. It's also a darn bit heavier, especially with a 2 row battery pack on it (I try to use the 2Ah and 3Ah packs but when I was driving 12" timber lags I needed the 4Ah packs).
I still have mine and have found it is the strongest among my older impacts all rated at 1500-1800 in lbs, the stealth force is stronger but only when it's cold as the hydraulic mechanism heats up quick under heavy load .
@dfwrider3830 well to be fair the Surge and Stealth Force have very different targets. The Surge is a precision driver that's quieter than normal, the Stealth Force is a beast that pays for it in weight and bulk and doesn't even bother with precise control modes. The Ryobi was closer to a traditional drill/driver that was quiet.
I just love this channel. You guys clearly put a lot of effort into the videos, right down to including metric conversions and awesomely interesting slow-mo shots with really nice music to match. It makes your videos an absolute pleasure to watch. Well done, keep up the amazing work!!
Would you be so kind as to add the previous version (DCF850B) of the Atomic to the torque charts? It would be super interesting to see the pre and post hydraulic comparisons. Thanks for all the hard work folks!
I think the 860 would be a better comparison. If I recall, the 850 is 3800 IPM, and the 860 is over 4000. If the 870 is 4000 or over, it would be a closer comparison, assuming all other specs are the same, such as torque.
I work for a huge company and I'm the maintenance supervisor, we have a ridiculous amount of yellow and red tools! HUNDREDS of each brand. Unbiased they are both good brands and do a great job! Certain tools I like both more or less. I will 100% say that we replace far more milwaukee tools than dewalt! Not saying it doesn't work the same or even better.. But they break more. That's just facts. Even if a tool works better... It needs to work when YOU need it to work. Just my opinion. I don't fault either manufacture.
I bought the M12 version of the Surge because I needed less torque than my non-hydraulic M12 version and to my delight I found that the Surge is able to produce very controlled, slow, impacts with a light trigger on setting 1 (like if you don't want to strip out a series of #6 screws on a machine cover). With the non-hydraulic version however, on setting 1 the gun won't even rotate half the time and then when it does start rotating you get way more torque than you wanted and will destroy a small fastener. In short, the reduced db is not what I appreciate, it's the great control.
Can you do a m12 surge as well. Ive had mine 5 years ish and I would love to see how it compares. Also maybe get your hands on a ryobi quiet strike or I'll send you one i have laying around 😆. I know that one's obsolete but it really is quieter than all of the ones I've ever used by a mile.
I love my m18 surge. Doesn't kick the bit out of the screw head all the time when you can't press the driver straight towards the screw. I've never needed it to have more torque, but if I did I would grab the regular impact. Maybe there's a way to test for that bit jump? It makes a big difference when your driving lots of screws for decks and fences. Maybe nobody else cares? Either way, Thanks TTC!
In the trades "bit-jump" is rarely an issue because Phillips-head isn't used for anything but sheetrock & finish work (i.e., short screws). Deck screws are torx/star drive; structural screws & bolts are torx/star or hex head; some applications commonly use Robertson/square drive. It's one way to tell a pro from a DIYer. For everyone here who experiences problems driving larger Phillips-head screws (like 3" screws), I encourage you to try star drive, and I promise you'll never go back -- they are THAT much easier. And they're right there on the shelf at the big box store, next to the Phillips-head. It seems like most people stick to Phillips-head out of sheer ignorance of the alternatives.
I agree with you, but I get it even when working with torx and Roberts when I'm off on a weird angle and can't push straight at it. Way less of course than with Phillips which is the worst for that. Maybe it's just me... Thanks
@@beefsupreme3083 Okay, fair enough. That particular situation (can't push straight in) doesn't happen to me much. Torx is more forgiving of off-angles than Phillips or Robertson, but has its limits of course. If it's tight quarters, a right-angle adapter can be a lifesaver.
I’d love to see 850 vs 860 vs 870 being that these are DWs 3 newest. I’m leaning towards 860 being it’s the most powerful, but if there isn’t much in it then the quieter and less vibration 870 might get a look in.
I have been running the surge for a solid 5-6 years now as a GC. Milwaukee had to replace one but the second is still running strong 4+ years in. It's nice to see dewalt finally join the party! These are very underrated and work really well in a ton of applications for construction at least!
I just ordered my first hydraulic, looking forward to trying it. As a remodel carpenter, I do a wide range of work. Still going to keep my regular impact around for those situations when I really need the torque, but that's not every day. Kinda the same as my handy little 6.5" 20v skilsaw vs. my beefy 7.25" 60v skilsaw. Good to have both.
Now this is a new tool comparison! I've been looking at impact drivers for a long time and had thought about the surge, but its performance didn't seem all quite that for its price tag vs the fuel model, this dewalt looks fantastic all round, the vibrations may of been a concern if it had still taken 15+ seconds to drive that nut down the threaded rod, but as you're literally shaving the time in half you're going to be done in record time and thus vibration syndrome wont be such a problem even if the tool is a bit more wild.
The difference in decibels, the type of noise they make and the vibration feel VS a regular impact is like being in a car with sound deadening, windows closed, summer tires and the stereo playing VS an old truck, windows open, mud terrains, and your spouse and kids yelling.... but yes trucks have a lot of power.
Some people with trucks don't haul anything more than groceries, but some have a legit need for a truck, even if it isn't every day. A woodworker may not need (or want) an impact with a ton of torque, but a remodel carpenter like myself does, even if it isn't every day. Bottom line: *all* choices involve trade-offs, and each person needs to evaluate the trade-offs for themselves.
Extremely impressed. I wasn't planning on considering this tool, because I was expecting performance closer to the Milwaukee, and didn't want to sacrifice power for less noise. Now I'm rethinking it - that thing is a beast for what it is!
Hydraulic impact drivers are a joy to use. They have less power but sometimes that is desirable. Most sensors and actuators on our 4 cylinder engines require 9nm of torque. Also you don't want to overtighten fasteners on plastic housings like engine air filter boxes and cabin filter covers. The engine encapsulation bolts don't need that much torque to reinstall them and the screws are very easy to strip out. My m12 surge is perfect for its application.
That’s where my DCF850 works perfectly. On level one it won’t hammer, which will snug everything up without breaking anything, which is about 98 in/lbs give or take. Then I can go by with a socket wrench quick and get it just right.
Was it mentioned that the M18 Surge came out back in 2016? I am willing to bet Milwaukee will be coming out with an update to the 2760 soon. This one was great to see, so I can't wait for that comparison. Great job guys!
Mine bricked last year, I had it for 7 years. Already had an M12 surge. I really appreciate that particularly at lower torque applications it is much (much!) quieter.
Corroded and stuck bolts and screws, presumably? Perhaps the idea is to never be able to install hardware so tightly that you cannot remove it again with the same tool.
Assembly and disassembly of screw fastened sheet metal? IDK, but I will say that the only contractors I've seen with the surge are the control panel guys.
well VEHICLES. everything gets stuck and rusty on cars. especially hot engine parts like mufflers ect. you need raw power to disassemble. the reassemble using a ratchet + torque wrench.
Never worked on cars? Only thing that matters is reverse power. I could never care about forward power. But I have 1” air impacts so I don’t have to worry about weak guns.
I love your videos and the way you go through things. As an owner of an M18 Surge and the standard Milwaukee driver, I think you missed a little bit of what makes the Surge great. It's never going to compete with my standard Milwaukee driver for speed or torque but if you want to tighten things precisely (like in cabinet work), I'd never give up my Surge. I don't know how you quantify that for sure, but the speed and strength of the DeWalt hydraulic is not a strength for what I use my Surge for. I'm still glad to see improvements and I know some people are mostly interested in how much quieter they are, so I get that my uses are not maybe the biggest market. Either way, keep up the good work!
I use my M12 hydraulic surge more than any of my other impacts simply because its lighter and quieter. It may not be as powerful but drives jist about everything i need it to. If I can not get the fastener out with the M12 I surge turn to my mid torque to get the job done.
In the end there’s a limit to how much a 1/4” collet (hex drive)can take. A silly question. Is a 1/4” collet better than a 1/4” socket driver in strength and durability?
In this application, more torque is not always an improvement. You want quiet, reliable, and easy to control. If the torque is adjustable on the DeWalt, this could be a great tool. The obsession with 'more' on this channel proves a lack of real world experience, but it's still very useful and we appreciate it.
"You want quiet, reliable, and easy to control". For some (including you), those characteristics are paramount; for others they are not. There are many different applications for an impact driver in the real world, some of which require "more". If your particular application doesn't, then great, make your choice accordingly. But don't let your own limited experience lead you to crap on those who choose a different set of trade-offs in order to meet their particular needs.
I'm very impressed with this DeWalt! I had the M18 Surge and had to warranty it 4 times in a row. Since that was my first (and now only) Milwaukee tool I switched to the Makita hydraulic. If this DeWalt had been an option then I might have gone over to team yellow!
Have you noticed with the now older DCF850, that when it maxes out on torquebility, the hammers disengaged in it, free spools like it's broken. And then after either tapping on the back. Or letting it sit alone, It's works and it's just fine
mine did that at random when new but not so much once torqued out, but more of whenever, and its done it less and less in the couple years since new, as a mechanic my drive cycle is a lil different than a wood elf
Carrying the same specs as the M18, we felt there probably wasn't a lot WE could show as to the difference between an M12 and M18 at this level. Hard to measure how LITTLE torque they can go down to after all, so we went with the 18V to compare to the new DeWALT. We've had trouble even getting hydraulic impacts to work on a dyno in the past so it wasn't a sure thing we'd even get an episode out of our plan for these 2.
I do look at other sources of information- but I find that this channel tends to be more helpful and accurate than both The Flintstones and The Road Runner/Coyote Show (But you really need to get busy testing some Acme stuff if you want to stay ahead of the latter!)
I'd like to see a test of smaller 18/20V drills, like Dewalt's Atomic line. It's one thing to find the most powerful drill, but it's another thing to separate out the smaller, lightweight drills and find the best bang for buck.
I am a Milwaukee tool owner. I have the M12 Surge. First, Dewalt clearly makes a better tool in this category, hands down. Second, I am not a fan of the M12 Surge. I bought it because I got a really good price on it, and I didn't really know what a "hydraulic impact driver" meant when I bought it. Yes, it is a bit quieter. But on the M12 version, it does not seem to have that "finer impacting resolution" spoken of @ 8:50... when I pull the trigger, even very lightly, it seems to go from zero to about 80% full torque immediately. So if I just want to lightly tighten a small M5 nut or bolt, I need to turn the power down rather than just feathering the trigger like you normally would. Also, while yes the total vibration is less, in my own personal, subjective experience, it is somehow more annoying. The best way I can think to explain it is that while it makes my hand shake less violently, it does so at a frequency that (to me personally) is far more bothering and painful. Again, this is on the M12 Surge, not the M18. Also, one mans experience. Maybe I got a dud. Who knows.
As a Dewalt fanboy. I love everything about the quiet hydraulic. I like the Milwaukee nailers more but the quiet hydraulic is without a doubt better because the noise level is about the same so what matters is finishing the job faster here… since it’s for small fasteners or residential places where you’d want less noise… but in that case I would use either a screwgun or a drill Too many workers use an impact without realizing there’s other options that will reduce the workload
I'd like to see 'performance normalised' noise. These are quieter than conventional impacts with all at full power but how does the noise of convential compare when driving at the same speed/torque, for instance setting 1 or 2 on the conventional milwaukee.
The impacts from a traditional hammer and anvil style one are basically the same volume whether done slow or fast. More loud impacts in a short period of time do not make for higher volume, just more pain on the ears.
I can't see hydraulic tools taking over from regular impacts from a physics perspective. They are simply always going to be worse at max torque, and there are (not impossible) challenges in avoiding sending that torque to the user. They're also far less efficient at transferring the energy. The real advantage is in the ability to extend the power pulse from an instantaneous impulse into something with a longer duration. That means lower peak pulse but in theory better performance when lower torque is required. This is all theoretical, I'm a physicist not a labourer, but their niche isn't likely to replace conventional impacts in my lifetime I wouldn't think.
If you read the specifications on most pneumatic impacts you will see they make more power in reverse. The reason is simple. If tool A has the same power each direction it would generally be unable to remove its own bolt. You need more power to break it lose and get past corrosion or a lock washer.
As an electrician the m12 surge rides my hip everyday. But that Dewalt looks good. But m12 and 2.5 battery are hard to beat when you carry it all. Day!
I hope they test the M12, I've been considering picking one up but I want to know if it will be worth it compared to my older lower end brushed Dewalt (which is extremely loud).
Yeah, no way I’m giving up my M12, at least until it breaks or Milwaukee brings out a notably better model. Love the lower size/weight and it does everything I’ve needed it to do.
@@Lord_zeel I'm in two way radio, and my M12 has done great work throwing rack screws and zapping stuff into and out of vehicles. Aside from the absolute top end of booyah, it is comparable in performance to the M18 - and quite a bit lighter! Biggest difference is now I have to charge the battery once a day instead of once a project.
You know what I am wondering as the fluid heats up does it gain or lose performance. If I am framing something all day with one of these A: does the fluid heat up to cause better/worse performance B: if/what is that performance delta. Edit: I think you answered with the fact they like to be warmed up for testing at 9:55
As a woodworker the Milwaukee is designed correctly. It can still twist off a woodscrew. It is powerful in reverse to remove stuck items. I buy them BECAUSE they don't have a lot of torque
I just rebuilt a deck with the Milwaukee Surge and usually used it on speed 2 (for better control on the 3" screws), and it worked great for what I was doing. Real-world, it was fine for my use. It drove big 8" structural screws (with pilot hole) like butter.
I have been using the Milwaukee Surge for years now. Recently used a similar vintage Dewalt non hydraulic. Huge Huge difference in feel and sound. I thought the Surge was a bit noisy but tolerable. The regular impact driver was so loud it hurt.
I own an overhead door business and we use the shite out of our regular dewalt impacts and go through them like they are disposable because we are constantly using them. Would these be good for commercial use like that?
Tossing out the battery platform that you are currently invested in, I want/need an impact driver for removing fasteners, not installation. Sure it's nice to get a fastener run in, but my work (aircraft) requires torquing to a final torque value. If I were invested in Yellow tools and my snubby impact driver needed replacement, I'd probably give this model a look.
Ive had my makita oil impulse driver for possibly over a decade and any time I'm working next to anyone with dewalt impact driver or Milwaukee, they get jealous.
We just drove a bazillion screws in a new steel building roof and the old M18 1/4 impacts killed the surge to the point nobody wanted to run the surge.
I bought the M18 surge, just grabbed the impact off the shelf at my orange big box store and checked out not paying attention to the exact model. I didn’t even know what surge was I just needed an M18 impact. Genuinely thought it was broken out of the box till my buddy told me it’s supposed to be like that. My M12 crushes it. The M18 surge is quieter but it’s slow and gutless and after spending the money on it and being out of the return policy I’m not replacing it. I’m just annoyed every time I use it.
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As a Big Milwaukee fan. I’m glad there’s competition if not for that no one would try to improve their tools and keep their prices under the clouds.
Agreed, 100%. I'm team Yellow but only because I started with it and prefer to stick with a single battery platform. If I had to start over, I'd be fine with Red or Blue. Every brand and tool choice involves trade-offs. More competition is good because all get pushed forward. More choice is good because individual needs and preferences vary.
Exactly. Competition of great for the consumer
You can go wrong with Ketch up and Mustard.
100% competition breads innovation.
This video shows only speed,there is other stuff to compare so could be otherwise!
Also, holy crap the slow mo is super informative on what's actually happening and a new way to think about these things.
I know this is not Project Farm, but you could maybe put these hydraulic tools into a freezer and then test them when they are really cold. It is not clear how long the tool would have to "warm up" to be really useful. Being in Alaska, this is important to me.
I suppose someone in a warmer climate might also like to see how the tools operate when they are really hot - I can imagine someone working outside on a hot sunny day, though it is not something I would likely encounter.
The viscosities of the hydraulic fluids may vary between tool brands, and that could impact your testing.
I wanted to love Project Farm so much because I love the numbers, but everything feels so rushed, and he doesn't connect with his audience at all in his videos, so everything feels super scammy or untrustworthy.
But I second the idea of testing this
@@austinhager7413 I'm surprised you get that impression of Project Farm. He uses a very rapid presentation style that isn't for every one (someone I know calls him 'the yelling guy'), but I don't understand the scammy bit. He responds to dozens (hundreds?) of comments for every video so I would disagree about not connecting to his audience.
@@toohardtowatch yeah I wish he'd slow down a little bit, especially since he lists the results for the people in a rush. But the guy is an absolute legend for the amount of useful information he's given us on so many different products
@@toohardtowatchidk man his knife review a year back was pretty scuffed
This is by far my favorite tool right now. Hydraulic impact drivers are so unique and what Dewalt did with this one is truly impressive.
I am SO happy to see Dewalt finally made the quiet impact driver. Impact drivers are the most annoying tool ever. And point blank, the M18 tools are the most unreliable tools ever. I work in commercial construction, and I'm also a woodworking enthusiast. I've had at least 5 Milwaukee tools have electrical failures, under light use, due to humidity or moisture or dust exposure. I am going to be switching to all Dewalt and Flex brand tools for my home woodworking tools.
I use all M18 tools at work, but I've already had 2 of the M18 hydraulic impact drivers fail. Their problem? The electronic speed control and reverse switch fails. I brought one of them in for repairs at a professional Milwaukee service center and they said you cannot repair the M18 hydraulic impact driver, the trigger mechanism is so expensive, it is more than the tool itself.
The other day I picked up an M18 Sawzall that I've barely used, and I took it out of my work van, and it didn't power on at all, it was electrically dead, despite having a full battery. I tried it a few days later, and it works now. I've had this same strange intermittent failure with many M18 tools, where they are simply glitchy. Mechanically, they are very, very strong. But electrically, they aren't potting their electronics in epoxy properly, and their electronics are far too sensitive to moisture and dust.
Can you tell me, how does it operate when there is little resistance? eg a dcf850 would race away with about 3200 rpm
@@starseeddeluxeI've had no issues with my M18 stuff and I work in dirt as a mechanic as well as building at home, dropped them etc and they keep going.
@ it’s a lot faster than the 850. You should grab one you’ll love it.
@@starseeddeluxesame here at work I use only Milwaukee and have had so many fail out of so little use some people they say they have bin using their Milwaukee tools for so many years and they last I don't understand for me personally at home right now I buy DeWalt they have been good so far
Good to see more hydraulic impacts on the market. The difference in noise is night and day once you get used to them. My hearing is already fucked but maybe we can do better for the next generations
Love that attitude man!
Even at the lower volumes of 92 ish dB, these will still cause hearing damage. That's still loud.
as soon as milwauke start selling their hydro impact, i bout 18 and 12 volt versions. now i can work, and i refuse to work with regular impact drivers! if any brand will come out with more quainter driver i will buy it!
Dewalt R&D definitely seems to be innovative on their tool offerings last couple years. Not on their platform but definitely would consider them a top choice if changing.
Weird that they can make an amazing tool like this but can't put a straight chuck on their drills.
@@oldman1944straight chuck?
@@JasonHam41 As in chucks that run true. I returned two of their higher end drills recently because the chuck was way of out true. Really unimpressed. The red brand have similar issues though I've heard.
@@oldman1944 They also can’t make a charger that balances the cells in the batteries 😂
@@reyigov7870 Milwaukee had that issue a few years back too with their 12ah packs. The balance shunts couldn't keep up and the packs ended up only being partially charged.
The main reason these hydraulic impacts are so desirable is because the CONTROL they offer. I hope dyno tests don’t encourage their downfall by convincing companies it’s all about torque.
Hydraulic impacts are great BECAUSE they lack torque. However, it is encouraging to see this DeWalt up the torque without losing the low speed control.
I’ve been using the Makita for years and love it! I have the M12 too and it’s great also. Hopefully they all get tested, but there NEEDS to be a subjective category for small fastener control; if cranking up the torque means a loss of control then these will serve no purpose.
This DeWalt hydraulic has too much torque. 50 lbs•ft max for a precision soft tool.
@@LightSaber12345 😂😂
This comment need more likes. And exactly why I went to m12 surge for residential service.
Right! The m18 surge is very quiet not at peak power when impacting. Id say as quiet as a drill. The control is amazing and I’ve drove 10” screws without an issue of torque, it actually stripped the wood in 1 of them.
How could a subjective category be a useful metric for a general audience? Regardless, a reasonable person should be able to gauge "small fastener control" from the objective metrics shown here. E.g., if you want absolute maximum "small fastener control", the slower (thus gentler) Surge is probably a better choice.
Please test the Makita Oil impulse. It's my go-to. I don't need nut busting torque or fastest speed. Give me usability features, less noise and less hand fatigue. That's the ticket.
Yes, I have the Makita. I don't know if it's common with hydraulic, but my arm doesn't suffer anywhere near the same impact-fatigue after extended use, compared to a traditional impact driver, and that's enough reason for me to prefer it.
“Give me usability features, less noise and less hand fatigue.” - you sound like your wife when she’s buying her “power tools” 😅
I personally don't care.
If it's hydraulic , that's enough for me.
The sound the vibration and the controllablity is so much better.
I do a lot of woodworking as a hobby and my m12 surge that I bought at an auction for $50 did absolutely everything I needed from it, mainly using it for jig assembly and the occasional pocket screw. I left it in the rain while I was working on a fence and it bricked it. I saw the price of a new one and opted to get a skil 12v kit with extra battery for half the price. The Skil does everything I need from it and has twice the power, but it's louder and not nearly as smooth. I miss my hydraulic dearly.
Hydraulic's are like the perfect middle ground between a drill driver and a traditional impact driver. It's perfect for just throwing a quick and dirty jig together without having to predrill. Wonder how long til we get an ultrasonic impact driver 😂.
I really want to see you guys test the torque of electric lawn mowers. I'll buy an electric mower when TTC tells me which is best.
If you still have it you could probably do a Google search and find a new circuit board, which would probably fix it. If you get something electronic wet, remove the battery if possible and do not turn it on or try to use it until it is 100% dry inside. Back in the 90s I carried a boombox around in the back of my pickup truck unprotected. I never turned it on if it had recently been wet I always let it dry out and it always worked. I've experienced this with a bunch of other electric devices. If you hit it with any power while it is still wet inside it will brick it. I've also spilled entire drinks into the keyboard of laptops and managed to save them by not trying to turn them on until they were dry. Usually you can get by with just replacing the keyboard when that happens.
I have the m12 surge and i love it, such a pleasant noise compared to a regular impact. And for regular use power has never been an issue. Not to take anything away from the dewalt, more power is rarely wrong.
the real-time line graphs with both tools going at the same time is pretty helpful in seeing the differences. nice job
I upgraded from my Milwaukee to this new Dewalt and it does not disappoint.
But the whole point of it is to be quieter… which it doesn’t seem like it is, atleast in the torque test
@chrisleslie1988 hydraulics sound loud on camera. This Dewalt scored better than my Milwaukee. I can see dewalt took their time to bring this out but it has paid off handsomely. I have given away the Milwaukee as Dewalt is so much better.
I’m not willing to change all my tools for one that’s better. But that’s just me.
@@Sinkorswim317 huh? I've given away my Milwaukee hydraulic? Did you think I'd given away a whole set of tools? Lol. I'm glad it's just you. I carry a mix of brands depending on the tool.
Nice. I have two of the Makita hydraulic impacts. I love them. I do occasional house service work, so I'm sure the customers prefer less noise, and I live in an apartment so I think my neighbors like it too. However they're quite a bit weaker for large screws, so I have four other regular impacts to cover that. I wouldn't pick hydraulic if I could only keep one.
What's the point of owning 5 different impacts? A quiet one, a smaller one, and a powerful one? What are the other 2 😆
Can you do a video discussing the wear/long term reliability of hydro? I feel like they probably wear worse? Maybe better idk
@@biesbas At work I keep a regular full size, the subcompact and one oil impulse. At home I keep another oil impulse and the Japan TD172. Then at my parents place I keep a regular full size for when I need to do stuff there.
@@biesbasRemember, switching to your secondary is faster than reloading. ;)
@@accordv6er My oldest is four years old and maybe a bit louder than the one year old one. However the wear gets shared between my three work drivers and the oil impact gets the most cushy work. I have however seen some really used ones (the HVAC guys love them since sound really travels in ducts) and those are really worn on the outside but seem to be working just fine.
The Makita design is pretty old, it's probably a bit if a niche product since they haven't updated it in 10 years. Made in Japan though, so that's nice. I wish it had the light of the Japan only (so far) TD173.
Straight up best tool review channel on RUclips. ( By far) Appreciate all the effort and money you put into your content. We are lucky to have you.
Regards, stonemason from Maine USA
Thanks for watching, we'll keep doing the best we can!
Mustard been getting the best of ketchup lately. Relish is still my favorite well made tool
Metabo HPT?
Makita?
And everything is better than midkita
I have a few Milwaukee tools, like the m12 hydraulic which is awesome for an electrician, but between all 3 makita by far has the best balanced, long lasting, batteries over red and yellow. I’ve had allot of dewalt cordless tools and have been let down to many times so I gave up. Evening broke so easily. So I now own only corroded dewalt tools like tables saws,planers, and chop saws which you can’t beat for the price, accuracy and feel. But forget the cordless stuff. Corded Milwaukee bandsaws and the mag skil saws are and have always been the best money can buy, but their battery power side lacks in allot of areas, similar to Riobi junk. Milwaukees cordless drills are heavy, way off balanced, and are not comfortable at all in the hand. Makita has it down for comfort and inmho has been the best out of those three brands hands down for many many years. Though and built to last. I’m green as well
The new m12 stubby impact is impressive but the best part is we all win with more competitors in the race
The lower sound levels of hydraulic is nice but for me the control of tightening is the killer feature. When assembling with machine screws I want something that isn't going to over-torque everything.
8:49 both seem to be able to slow down the hits and make the hits low enough power than fine resolution is not going to heavily favor one, one just seems to have a lot more on tap above that range when full throttle
Not trying to be that guy but maybe an impact isn't the tight choice. I got a cheap 12v brushed drill that's still quick but isn't physically capable of over torquing anything. It's also got a clutch which impacts don't
yeah you want something with a clutch for machine screws.
I've got the 850 atomic. I use power mode one for small screws, cabinet/door hardware, junction boxes ect. Cuts off way before stripping out. But power mode three can take off lug nuts, so be careful 😂
Use an impact driver for deck screws and lag bolts, stuff like that. Not for assembling machine screws. If I ever saw you doing that in my machine shop you would introduced to your walking papers on the spot.
Thank you for putting lifetime charts in description.
I’ve been planning on buying an DeWalt impact driver. Had not heard of this hydraulic model. This should be interesting
Love this 870 had it for a week now and it impressed me more then some other regular ones
It's too bad Ridgid discontinued the Stealth Force, it was rated at 1,200 in-lbs vs 450 for the M12/18 Surge and honestly that's about what it feels like, about 3x stronger. It's also a darn bit heavier, especially with a 2 row battery pack on it (I try to use the 2Ah and 3Ah packs but when I was driving 12" timber lags I needed the 4Ah packs).
I still have mine and have found it is the strongest among my older impacts all rated at 1500-1800 in lbs, the stealth force is stronger but only when it's cold as the hydraulic mechanism heats up quick under heavy load .
Yeah it's sad, would like to see it on the chart again these 2
i just traced down a used one, its a monster. its a shame milwaukee takes all the good ideas for themselves, and often they mess it up in the process.
@dfwrider3830 well to be fair the Surge and Stealth Force have very different targets. The Surge is a precision driver that's quieter than normal, the Stealth Force is a beast that pays for it in weight and bulk and doesn't even bother with precise control modes. The Ryobi was closer to a traditional drill/driver that was quiet.
@@andrewfidel2220 well evidently it was too good and tti cut it because it was theoretically cutting into sales for their premium brand.
***Really hope you mention the fact that the Milwaukee surge has been out for almost a decade, and DeWalt is just now entering the chat***
Sounds like an iPhone..... getting the same product for 10 years is insane.
I just love this channel. You guys clearly put a lot of effort into the videos, right down to including metric conversions and awesomely interesting slow-mo shots with really nice music to match. It makes your videos an absolute pleasure to watch. Well done, keep up the amazing work!!
Thanks, means a lot!
I now have the impulse to buy the yellow one...
Would you be so kind as to add the previous version (DCF850B) of the Atomic to the torque charts? It would be super interesting to see the pre and post hydraulic comparisons. Thanks for all the hard work folks!
Absolutelly, it would be nice to see it compared to Dewalts previous Atomic Impact Driver DCF850B, to see if an upgrade is in our near future purchase
I think the 860 would be a better comparison. If I recall, the 850 is 3800 IPM, and the 860 is over 4000. If the 870 is 4000 or over, it would be a closer comparison, assuming all other specs are the same, such as torque.
Great job on the slow motion. Fascinating to watch.... I absolutely love this nerdy tool stuff! Thanks fellas.
I work for a huge company and I'm the maintenance supervisor, we have a ridiculous amount of yellow and red tools! HUNDREDS of each brand. Unbiased they are both good brands and do a great job! Certain tools I like both more or less. I will 100% say that we replace far more milwaukee tools than dewalt! Not saying it doesn't work the same or even better.. But they break more. That's just facts. Even if a tool works better... It needs to work when YOU need it to work. Just my opinion. I don't fault either manufacture.
Well if people pick up milwaukee more, then they will break more
Surely what we all want to know is how this compares to 'ordinary' drivers
Will be doing lots of LIVE STREAMS
TTC has already done that in the past.
@@svn5994 so TTC AREN'T GOD ARE THEY OTHERWISE WE WOULD HAVE TO BOW TO THEM AND I Don't BOW🫠 TO ANY CHANNEL
are you trolling💀
We had the Surge at my last job. I really liked it. Was the most controllable by far impact driver ive used. Also, noticably quieter.
I bought the M12 version of the Surge because I needed less torque than my non-hydraulic M12 version and to my delight I found that the Surge is able to produce very controlled, slow, impacts with a light trigger on setting 1 (like if you don't want to strip out a series of #6 screws on a machine cover). With the non-hydraulic version however, on setting 1 the gun won't even rotate half the time and then when it does start rotating you get way more torque than you wanted and will destroy a small fastener. In short, the reduced db is not what I appreciate, it's the great control.
Can you do a m12 surge as well. Ive had mine 5 years ish and I would love to see how it compares. Also maybe get your hands on a ryobi quiet strike or I'll send you one i have laying around 😆. I know that one's obsolete but it really is quieter than all of the ones I've ever used by a mile.
The M12 Surge is very close in performance to the M18 Surge, almost identical.
I love my m18 surge. Doesn't kick the bit out of the screw head all the time when you can't press the driver straight towards the screw.
I've never needed it to have more torque, but if I did I would grab the regular impact.
Maybe there's a way to test for that bit jump? It makes a big difference when your driving lots of screws for decks and fences. Maybe nobody else cares?
Either way, Thanks TTC!
In the trades "bit-jump" is rarely an issue because Phillips-head isn't used for anything but sheetrock & finish work (i.e., short screws). Deck screws are torx/star drive; structural screws & bolts are torx/star or hex head; some applications commonly use Robertson/square drive. It's one way to tell a pro from a DIYer. For everyone here who experiences problems driving larger Phillips-head screws (like 3" screws), I encourage you to try star drive, and I promise you'll never go back -- they are THAT much easier. And they're right there on the shelf at the big box store, next to the Phillips-head. It seems like most people stick to Phillips-head out of sheer ignorance of the alternatives.
I agree with you, but I get it even when working with torx and Roberts when I'm off on a weird angle and can't push straight at it. Way less of course than with Phillips which is the worst for that. Maybe it's just me... Thanks
@@beefsupreme3083 Okay, fair enough. That particular situation (can't push straight in) doesn't happen to me much. Torx is more forgiving of off-angles than Phillips or Robertson, but has its limits of course. If it's tight quarters, a right-angle adapter can be a lifesaver.
I’d love to see 850 vs 860 vs 870 being that these are DWs 3 newest. I’m leaning towards 860 being it’s the most powerful, but if there isn’t much in it then the quieter and less vibration 870 might get a look in.
I'm a simple man, I see Torque Test Channel has a new video, I watch, I like, how soon are we gonna get the DCF964 review though?
We have one en route
@@TorqueTestChannel sold some working great!
Test the new flex 3/4 inch @@TorqueTestChannel
Nice to see some new dewalt impact being tested. Hopefully you test the new 12v sealed head rachet
Been loving mine so far, honestly my favorite even over my DCF860
I have been running the surge for a solid 5-6 years now as a GC. Milwaukee had to replace one but the second is still running strong 4+ years in. It's nice to see dewalt finally join the party! These are very underrated and work really well in a ton of applications for construction at least!
I just ordered my first hydraulic, looking forward to trying it. As a remodel carpenter, I do a wide range of work. Still going to keep my regular impact around for those situations when I really need the torque, but that's not every day. Kinda the same as my handy little 6.5" 20v skilsaw vs. my beefy 7.25" 60v skilsaw. Good to have both.
Now this is a new tool comparison!
I've been looking at impact drivers for a long time and had thought about the surge, but its performance didn't seem all quite that for its price tag vs the fuel model, this dewalt looks fantastic all round, the vibrations may of been a concern if it had still taken 15+ seconds to drive that nut down the threaded rod, but as you're literally shaving the time in half you're going to be done in record time and thus vibration syndrome wont be such a problem even if the tool is a bit more wild.
The difference in decibels, the type of noise they make and the vibration feel VS a regular impact is like being in a car with sound deadening, windows closed, summer tires and the stereo playing VS an old truck, windows open, mud terrains, and your spouse and kids yelling.... but yes trucks have a lot of power.
Some people with trucks don't haul anything more than groceries, but some have a legit need for a truck, even if it isn't every day. A woodworker may not need (or want) an impact with a ton of torque, but a remodel carpenter like myself does, even if it isn't every day. Bottom line: *all* choices involve trade-offs, and each person needs to evaluate the trade-offs for themselves.
Looking forward for ttc to open a power pack battery to check if is really a new gen cell technology
Extremely impressed. I wasn't planning on considering this tool, because I was expecting performance closer to the Milwaukee, and didn't want to sacrifice power for less noise. Now I'm rethinking it - that thing is a beast for what it is!
Hydraulic impact drivers are a joy to use. They have less power but sometimes that is desirable. Most sensors and actuators on our 4 cylinder engines require 9nm of torque. Also you don't want to overtighten fasteners on plastic housings like engine air filter boxes and cabin filter covers. The engine encapsulation bolts don't need that much torque to reinstall them and the screws are very easy to strip out. My m12 surge is perfect for its application.
That’s where my DCF850 works perfectly. On level one it won’t hammer, which will snug everything up without breaking anything, which is about 98 in/lbs give or take. Then I can go by with a socket wrench quick and get it just right.
Was it mentioned that the M18 Surge came out back in 2016? I am willing to bet Milwaukee will be coming out with an update to the 2760 soon. This one was great to see, so I can't wait for that comparison. Great job guys!
Mine bricked last year, I had it for 7 years. Already had an M12 surge. I really appreciate that particularly at lower torque applications it is much (much!) quieter.
Hopefully this DCF870 can ignite some R&D from TTI as I believe they felt way too comfortable through all these years with little to no competition.
Reverse torque is probably the thing I care about least in an impact driver, what scenario is Milwaukee building it's tool for?
I had the same thoughts.
Corroded and stuck bolts and screws, presumably? Perhaps the idea is to never be able to install hardware so tightly that you cannot remove it again with the same tool.
Assembly and disassembly of screw fastened sheet metal? IDK, but I will say that the only contractors I've seen with the surge are the control panel guys.
well VEHICLES.
everything gets stuck and rusty on cars. especially hot engine parts like mufflers ect.
you need raw power to disassemble. the reassemble using a ratchet + torque wrench.
Never worked on cars? Only thing that matters is reverse power. I could never care about forward power. But I have 1” air impacts so I don’t have to worry about weak guns.
So looks like Milwaukee needs to release Surge 2.0
I’ve always called mode 1 on my dewalt the “ikea mode”. Looks like we have now, the “ikea impact” full model.
Being the safety guy these are awesome to see
Please test out the Rigid Hydraulic Impact 🙏🏻
Great new tool. I might get one. Any chance you guys will review the DCF964B the new 3/4" impact wrench from Dewalt?
When will you be testing the new Dewalt 3/4 impact ?
Can you run the Ridgid stealth force against these. I know it is bigger just wondering how it compares in power, noise, and IPM.
This is awesome. I love my M12 surge so I’m hoping the lights a fire under team red to make a new gen.
0:14 shoutouts to the Samyang/Rokinon 35mm
Their lenses punch above their price class
I love your videos and the way you go through things. As an owner of an M18 Surge and the standard Milwaukee driver, I think you missed a little bit of what makes the Surge great. It's never going to compete with my standard Milwaukee driver for speed or torque but if you want to tighten things precisely (like in cabinet work), I'd never give up my Surge. I don't know how you quantify that for sure, but the speed and strength of the DeWalt hydraulic is not a strength for what I use my Surge for. I'm still glad to see improvements and I know some people are mostly interested in how much quieter they are, so I get that my uses are not maybe the biggest market. Either way, keep up the good work!
I use my M12 hydraulic surge more than any of my other impacts simply because its lighter and quieter. It may not be as powerful but drives jist about everything i need it to. If I can not get the fastener out with the M12 I surge turn to my mid torque to get the job done.
In the end there’s a limit to how much a 1/4” collet (hex drive)can take. A silly question. Is a 1/4” collet better than a 1/4” socket driver in strength and durability?
YES!!! This must be tested!
75ft lb is typical rating for 1/4”. Softer steel will be impact rated to bend a bit.
1/4" square can take more omph then a 1/4" hex shaft.
I wanna see the Walmart hyper tough 1/2 impact. Is it better than the Amazon brands?
Great reviews. Concise and consistent. New subscriber 👌
So I just got my hand on the new M18 Forge 12.0 and 8.0 for 249 from HD. I can't wait for you to test them.
In this application, more torque is not always an improvement. You want quiet, reliable, and easy to control. If the torque is adjustable on the DeWalt, this could be a great tool. The obsession with 'more' on this channel proves a lack of real world experience, but it's still very useful and we appreciate it.
"You want quiet, reliable, and easy to control". For some (including you), those characteristics are paramount; for others they are not. There are many different applications for an impact driver in the real world, some of which require "more". If your particular application doesn't, then great, make your choice accordingly. But don't let your own limited experience lead you to crap on those who choose a different set of trade-offs in order to meet their particular needs.
when will you be doing dcf964 its been over 3 weeks since you mentioned it
HiKoki also has one. Will you add it to the list for future videos please
i'd like to see a video on 7/16 impact drivers i'm in the market for one and have been debating between dewalt and klein
I'm very impressed with this DeWalt! I had the M18 Surge and had to warranty it 4 times in a row. Since that was my first (and now only) Milwaukee tool I switched to the Makita hydraulic. If this DeWalt had been an option then I might have gone over to team yellow!
Have you noticed with the now older DCF850, that when it maxes out on torquebility, the hammers disengaged in it, free spools like it's broken.
And then after either tapping on the back. Or letting it sit alone, It's works and it's just fine
mine did that at random when new but not so much once torqued out, but more of whenever, and its done it less and less in the couple years since new, as a mechanic my drive cycle is a lil different than a wood elf
@wdixon27 interesting, I have 2, and they both do it consistently driving big timber screws, or things of that nature.
I would really like to see the M12 version of the Surge tested.
I now run one everyday, this needs to happen!
Probably the same.
Carrying the same specs as the M18, we felt there probably wasn't a lot WE could show as to the difference between an M12 and M18 at this level. Hard to measure how LITTLE torque they can go down to after all, so we went with the 18V to compare to the new DeWALT. We've had trouble even getting hydraulic impacts to work on a dyno in the past so it wasn't a sure thing we'd even get an episode out of our plan for these 2.
@ fair enough, my brand new m12 surge doesn’t hold a wet match to a 5 year old m18😂
Didn’t the M12 Surge already choke on TTC? I could’ve sworn I saw an episode with it.
Does hydraulic mean it has seals, that will leak over time?
If it well constructed it wont but great question
@@masterjack8222even the best most expensive design will leak.
I do look at other sources of information- but I find that this channel tends to be more helpful and accurate than both The Flintstones and The Road Runner/Coyote Show (But you really need to get busy testing some Acme stuff if you want to stay ahead of the latter!)
Great way to kick off a Friday morning. Hydraulic? Neat.
I'd like to see a test of smaller 18/20V drills, like Dewalt's Atomic line. It's one thing to find the most powerful drill, but it's another thing to separate out the smaller, lightweight drills and find the best bang for buck.
I am a Milwaukee tool owner. I have the M12 Surge. First, Dewalt clearly makes a better tool in this category, hands down. Second, I am not a fan of the M12 Surge. I bought it because I got a really good price on it, and I didn't really know what a "hydraulic impact driver" meant when I bought it. Yes, it is a bit quieter. But on the M12 version, it does not seem to have that "finer impacting resolution" spoken of @ 8:50... when I pull the trigger, even very lightly, it seems to go from zero to about 80% full torque immediately. So if I just want to lightly tighten a small M5 nut or bolt, I need to turn the power down rather than just feathering the trigger like you normally would. Also, while yes the total vibration is less, in my own personal, subjective experience, it is somehow more annoying. The best way I can think to explain it is that while it makes my hand shake less violently, it does so at a frequency that (to me personally) is far more bothering and painful. Again, this is on the M12 Surge, not the M18. Also, one mans experience. Maybe I got a dud. Who knows.
I don't like impact drivers period, hydraulic or not. The milwaukee hydraulic impact driver is about 4 - 5 years older
I'm going to guess yours might be defective. I used to have one and it was definitely more controllable down low then what you described.
I use the m12 and m18 daily as a finish carpenter... I reach to the m12 surge more often, just as powerful and better design with the slant.
YESSSS I've been waiting for this video!!!
edit: doesn't Ridgid have a hydraulic driver too?
Can you test hilti power tools I’m curious how they measure up
As a Dewalt fanboy. I love everything about the quiet hydraulic. I like the Milwaukee nailers more but the quiet hydraulic is without a doubt better because the noise level is about the same so what matters is finishing the job faster here… since it’s for small fasteners or residential places where you’d want less noise… but in that case I would use either a screwgun or a drill
Too many workers use an impact without realizing there’s other options that will reduce the workload
I cant wait to see what Makita comes out with! I hope they release something for Christmas this year. I'd love a hydro Makita
I'd like to see 'performance normalised' noise. These are quieter than conventional impacts with all at full power but how does the noise of convential compare when driving at the same speed/torque, for instance setting 1 or 2 on the conventional milwaukee.
The impacts from a traditional hammer and anvil style one are basically the same volume whether done slow or fast. More loud impacts in a short period of time do not make for higher volume, just more pain on the ears.
I can't see hydraulic tools taking over from regular impacts from a physics perspective. They are simply always going to be worse at max torque, and there are (not impossible) challenges in avoiding sending that torque to the user. They're also far less efficient at transferring the energy. The real advantage is in the ability to extend the power pulse from an instantaneous impulse into something with a longer duration. That means lower peak pulse but in theory better performance when lower torque is required.
This is all theoretical, I'm a physicist not a labourer, but their niche isn't likely to replace conventional impacts in my lifetime I wouldn't think.
I was nervous watching on video, because my dewalt oil impulse is on pre order.
I wonder which style leads to more wood splitting, the 10 to 11 blows of the Milwaukee or the 3 to 4 of the Dewalt?
You dont have to run either tool at full beans
not piloting leads to more wood splitting. that is the factor. not the progress per time you drive the screw in.
If you read the specifications on most pneumatic impacts you will see they make more power in reverse. The reason is simple. If tool A has the same power each direction it would generally be unable to remove its own bolt. You need more power to break it lose and get past corrosion or a lock washer.
Would've loved to see the old (discontinued) Ridgid hydraulic impact driver included
How will longevity be? When will the hydraulic fluid begin leaking?
As an electrician the m12 surge rides my hip everyday. But that Dewalt looks good. But m12 and 2.5 battery are hard to beat when you carry it all. Day!
I hope they test the M12, I've been considering picking one up but I want to know if it will be worth it compared to my older lower end brushed Dewalt (which is extremely loud).
Yeah, no way I’m giving up my M12, at least until it breaks or Milwaukee brings out a notably better model. Love the lower size/weight and it does everything I’ve needed it to do.
@@Lord_zeel I'm in two way radio, and my M12 has done great work throwing rack screws and zapping stuff into and out of vehicles. Aside from the absolute top end of booyah, it is comparable in performance to the M18 - and quite a bit lighter!
Biggest difference is now I have to charge the battery once a day instead of once a project.
Throw a 1.7 PS on that Dewalt and it’s going to be pretty comparable IMO.
@ It’s still going to be heavier, and that combination is over $300
You know what I am wondering as the fluid heats up does it gain or lose performance. If I am framing something all day with one of these A: does the fluid heat up to cause better/worse performance B: if/what is that performance delta.
Edit: I think you answered with the fact they like to be warmed up for testing at 9:55
What the decibels of other non hydraulic impacts? Such as the 850?
As a woodworker the Milwaukee is designed correctly. It can still twist off a woodscrew. It is powerful in reverse to remove stuck items. I buy them BECAUSE they don't have a lot of torque
What about the new Hilti that released? Can you do a test comparison?
I just rebuilt a deck with the Milwaukee Surge and usually used it on speed 2 (for better control on the 3" screws), and it worked great for what I was doing. Real-world, it was fine for my use. It drove big 8" structural screws (with pilot hole) like butter.
I have been using the Milwaukee Surge for years now. Recently used a similar vintage Dewalt non hydraulic. Huge Huge difference in feel and sound. I thought the Surge was a bit noisy but tolerable. The regular impact driver was so loud it hurt.
Amazing! what the world is waiting for is silent leaf blowers though, impact drivers are way to noisy, neat to see them doing something about it!
I own an overhead door business and we use the shite out of our regular dewalt impacts and go through them like they are disposable because we are constantly using them. Would these be good for commercial use like that?
Tossing out the battery platform that you are currently invested in, I want/need an impact driver for removing fasteners, not installation.
Sure it's nice to get a fastener run in, but my work (aircraft) requires torquing to a final torque value.
If I were invested in Yellow tools and my snubby impact driver needed replacement, I'd probably give this model a look.
I have never even heard of a hydraulic impact until now. Neat idea
Hey man I have a 3/4” Cornell impact wrench. Wouldn’t mind sending it in to see how it does against other 3/4’s. Can’t find many vids on it on YT.
Surprised the Makita oil impact wasn’t included.
Ive had my makita oil impulse driver for possibly over a decade and any time I'm working next to anyone with dewalt impact driver or Milwaukee, they get jealous.
@ yah makita makes a great oil impact. I didn’t get it as noise wasn’t a concern for me.
We just drove a bazillion screws in a new steel building roof and the old M18 1/4 impacts killed the surge to the point nobody wanted to run the surge.
It would be fun to see a Torque Test Channel staff competition where you run down that nylon nut manually with speeder handles.
I bought the M18 surge, just grabbed the impact off the shelf at my orange big box store and checked out not paying attention to the exact model. I didn’t even know what surge was I just needed an M18 impact. Genuinely thought it was broken out of the box till my buddy told me it’s supposed to be like that. My M12 crushes it. The M18 surge is quieter but it’s slow and gutless and after spending the money on it and being out of the return policy I’m not replacing it. I’m just annoyed every time I use it.
You should try the DeWalt with the power stack battery as well to see the difference
Wonder how long before we see this tech in the 1/2” impact wrenches
Any chance we can get a teardown to see how these actually work? The stock video clip was nice, but doesn't explain much.