Flashover fire
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2011
- Room and contents fire at a training session that is allowed to goe to full flashover. The temperature is measured throughout with thermocouples at the ceiling, midpoint, and floor. The ceiling collapses while firefighters make entry. There were no injuries
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1700 at the floor can you imagine that. Well played boys 💪💪
Clay fires ar 1735 F.
Coucou encore gagné félicitation pompe chaleur 💚🧡
The subtle differences between Fully Involved and Flashover.
Think of Flash over as the initiation of full envolvement
@@timc5301 I mean a building can be fully involved without a flashover
@@bsfv2010 no the definition of flashover is when the descending thermal plane hits the floor and everything in that room has reached its ignition temperature
a flashover is the transition from an initial fire to a full grown fire
absolutely not@@einflinkeswiesel2695
Jeremiah's own description tells you that it is not a flashover. Flashover is defined as near simultaneous ignition of heated fuel gases in the enclosure. Jeremiah tells us that the fire "is allowed to goe to full flashover" flashover is defined as near instantaneous! it is not something that you watch and record as it develops, ALLOWING it to happen. As I stated earlier, the slow steady build, which obviously started prior to the beginning of this clip, is predictable because, as Squad 61 points out, there is heavy billowing black smoke flow through the large openings from the beginning, as OPPOSED to the dark brown smoke from many small openings indicating a build-up of superheated gaseous fuel during the fire's "steady state" if it were actually prime for flashover. What we really have here is an excellent training burn where the person in charge allowed the fire to build to the point where the trainees may actually be able to feel some heat as they go in. Due to the obvious degree of ventilation dangerously high temperatures can't be reached. Putting two crews in one after another, while not standard practice at a "real fire", is very good practice at a training fire. Twenty to forty years ago live training burns were common and frequent and one could attend a half dozen a year if desired. With today's clean air laws it is very difficult to get them permitted, so it is necessary to get as much use out of them when they can happen. When I was conducting training burns we would very frequently put two and even three teams into the structure at the same time in order to maximize the benefit of the burn, and I would watch each burn carefully from beside the nozzle-man and have him shut down immediately upon knockdown so that the fire could quickly build up again. We could usually get every attendee into a burn as many times as they desired until they were thoroughly worn out, before pulling out and going defensive.
Very welll stated reply! I have 25-years of experience now in the fire service. Yes the instructor here was very good, and unfortunately he has passed away since this video was recorded by me. Thanks for commenting.
When does volume two of your post come out?
Agreed. Not flashover.
Every single compartment fire will eventually reach flashover, that was at least Rollover, if not flashover
While you are correct that the initial piece was not a flashover but a well advanced fire state, the part I find of concern is the discussion of moving guys into training burns to feel heat.
In this video you could see the immediate drop in fire conditions with application of water, but without continuing that attack and utilizing the reach of the stream, the crews moved rapidly into the flow path of the structure. The sudden “pop” of smoke as they move in is indicative of a compartment a bit further in reaching rapid ignition as the fire stream introduced air. All smoke is fuel and placing your personnel into that flow path of hot smoke is simply a matter of when a rapid fire event will push back into the crews.
Our gear is NOT made to turn heat for fire attack. It is designed to prevent heat from getting to you in an emergency situation. When you feel heat through your gear you are already in danger. Any sudden increase in temperature at the point you feel heat will translate directly through your gear with zero ability of that gear to protect you any further. This is called the heat saturation point of your protective gear. This is the same thing as overheating your oven mits to the point you have to put the pan back on the stove, you couldn’t immediately go pick up another pan as the ability for the oven mitt to absorb heat is gone. With 65 feet of break over on a hand line, use the reach of the line, cool the overhead and environment and only push in as your TIC identifies cooling of the environment and decrease in fuel production. It takes no additional time, and often is actually faster, and certainly safer. The lessons NIST UL has taught us over the past decade are solid scientific facts of the way we should be fighting fire. Direct, exterior application of water is extremely aggressive and puts more water on the fire faster and safer.
Love The Teamwork!
Did I just see two attack line crews going in at the same time?
I´m asking myself: WTF are they even going in?
Says in description that it’s a training burn.
@@RoofMonkey911 Not training properly, second line should never go in unless first attack line goes down, or first team puts out the fire begins ventilation (via hydraulic procedures if vertical, or natural ventilation can't occur) and there is a rekindling of the fire. Even then, second line will never be the last one out of the building, or first one in.
@@donnie7013 not a ff here...why is that? (If I had to guess I’d say it’s because there is a chance one nozzle man could hit another in a no visibility situation?)
Been taking fire 1 classes for the past couple months, if the fire has spread far enough maybe two attack teams can enter a structure fire? I don’t know yet but maybe it’s an SOP thing.
Rollover… not Flashover…
Not!
Smart Firefighting
Like most training fires, there are multiple times to get the nozzle to the seat of the fire(s). Surely there were points to be taught and learned by entry crews for chances at attacks from the unburned side as well as the burned side. Learning how to push a fire out of a structure by using good steam conversion practices instead of trying to drown it saves water and brings in cooler air from behind with the added benefit of saving property and more rapidly clearing smoke, aiding in search. Ventilation in a wide open training structure has already accomplished as been seen in this video and avails the crews the opportunity to try various scenarios. Training fires are where such techniques can be mastered in relative safety. I imagine the coordinated drills with vent teams and the hoseline crews were already done before this video??
You can not push fire. This is a myth from the 90’s that needs to die.
@@Namerer Well, I would have to guess physics and the laws of thermodynamics have all been changed since I retired 21 years ago. Good for you that you probably have to just look at the fire and 'wish it' away. I'm guessing that the fires today are hundreds of degrees cooler too, and you just throw, what, maybe a computer at them and poof... "They are hereby commanded to go out." Such wonderful things in the modern world! Is there still smoke and hot gases or have they too, been abolished? Gosh, and it's so nice to see that all those saves and good stops we made years ago with our antiquated techniques could have more easily turned into commercial parking lots and "buildable residential lots" .... our 'mythology', part of the ever changing and evolving fire science and fire engineering saved lives and prevented property loss. Your life in the continuum of the fire service is based on the general knowledge, APPLIED KNOWLEDGE, of generations. My grandfather was a career firefighter who was a LODD, line of duty death in 1934, who had none of the technology that I had and our generation was helping develop the tools and techniques that you use today. You stand on the shoulders of the men and women that served before you, don't forget. To say you cannot push fire? That's an absurdist statement. A well coordinated attack on the seat of the fire is demonstrably done everyday by well trained and led crews and pushing fire is simply moving the heat, smoke, gases and flame to where it can be cut away from its fuel source for extinguishment. If you have never seen or done it in its various forms , you need to find yourself with the nozzle and the willingness to learn how to do it In the right circumstance, that being a free burning state, past the incipient state, with some natural ventilation or with the coordinated venting happening and your own careful attention to the fire conditions that surround you and your application of the appropriate stream. There is a real feeling of accomplishment when you realize that you just made a great stop by capturing the dragon and pushing it out of an opening and saved the structure from the spread of a well involved fire by good steam conversion, so you see, pushing a fire is a real thing. (There are too, techniques to learn in shipboard and air crash and rescue firefighting in controlling fires by multiple teams directing streams to 'push fire' for confining or making paths for rescue... ) . Having done it several times and observed it done dozens of times, I know for a fact that it works. Everyone with even a few years experience knows it. I now have a new neighbor that has finished his fire training and now has a little less than a year on the job AND he's on the same department that I retired from. I can't wait to see if his rookie class believes or was taught that pushing fire is "a myth from the 90s that needs to die". Wanna further debate it? BRING IT ON... But, I will tell you that if your argument holds weight of fact based in science, then I will gladly change my mind to your way of thinking. No real career firefighter ever falls back on the ridiculous trope of '200 years of pride and firefighting tradition uninterrupted by progress' or that way of thinking. Be safe. Train like you fight.
@@mikegrant8490 im not reading all of that shit, long story short, you were given wrong information 21 years ago. Simple as that, the AIR flow from a fog nozzle can push AND pull fire but you can NOT push fire further into a building. It is not possible. You have been out of the game too long old man, you’re washed up. If you have any interest in correct information take time to look up how fire behavior works, theres a lot better information out there now.
@@Namerer Your failure to read and understand what I said is typical of someone who has a very real problem with their own inflated abilities. I feel sorry for the officer that has to command you and for your fellow teammates who must look at you as the one most likely to really screw up and get himself killed or get one of them killed. Maybe the fire service is really not something that you are cut out for. Did I say anything, ANYTHING, emphasis added, about pushing fire BACK INTO a structure? I DID say I retired 21 years ago, and I know things have evolved, not devolved. My abilities to handle a nozzle in an interior attack were more than adequate, well honed over 25 years of busy engine company service and as an instructor. Does your department mandate a two hour or more per shift training regimen? Is it enforced? If so, maybe you'll be adequate for the job with enough further training getting drilled into a thick, all knowing head encasing your made up mind. Again, be safe out there. Try to learn something new every day. Evolve or die. If you are the epitome of what the fire service is attracting, qualifying, training and retaining, then I guess the public is getting whatever their tax base can afford.
@@mikegrant8490 immagine being a fire fighter for 25 years and still thinking you can actually push fire. You failed all your students. The amount of air a fog nozzle pushes is not as much as the GPM’s the water puts out. You will put the water on the fire way faster then you can push air.
Coucou 🧡💚
For one that's not a flash over, it's a flare up.
I didn't see any flashover there. Only predictable spread.
That depends of your definition of a Flashover, Backdraft, or smoke explosion. But they're all spreading the fire, so you are right.
Then you have a different definition of "flashover" than the training team that made this video.
@@JasmineLindros
Well what you see here is a Flashover. Enough combustible materials, nice airflow with oxygen for the fire and openings to get the hot gasses flowing out. So when the temperature reaches the igninition point of the flammable gas you get your Flashover.
Simpel.
Close the door and you have an other ball game.
Yep thats a flashover
Bien devant le cône d expansion ! Et l attaque en jet bâton !!!! L approche et l attaque ne sont pas appropriées à ce type d embrassement surtout qu’à la lecture du feu on vois bien qu’un phénomène thermique ce réalise, c est comme ça que arrive les accidents !
Must be training cuz it looks like newbies
Full fog on the nozzle guys , you're not going to cool the room with a solid stream of water , basic fire school knowledge .
Fog does not have the penetrating power of a solid stream. A fog would mostly steam and not reach the seat to diminish the energy being released.
Uhhh you might want to go back to fire school. You never use fog on a room you are entering unless you want steam burns, that’s basic fire school knowledge. You are just talking out of your ass
I'm curious what do you mean by full fog? why not solid stream?
ruclips.net/video/vkNFPWyidlc/видео.html
All fog is going to do is fill the room with steam and make the environment more difficult. If you was a firefighter maybe you should go back to training school
Jesus christ, did the entire fire service forget about semi fog? If you fog it out, more water can touch more fire.
Have you ever been inside a structure fire? I don’t think so