Micah wasn't the only one to blame for the gang falling apart. Times were changing anyway, and like Arthur said, "Maybe we don't need a rat. Maybe we're just getting sloppy.".
part of me actually feels like the story would have been even better if there never was a rat. Think of the scenario: the whole game leads the player to think that the gang is falling apart because of a rat, but at the end of it all, it turns out there never was one, and it was simply Dutch's increasing recklessness and greed that was driving them into the ground, nothing else. It would have been a great twist that further enforces how far Dutch fell into insanity and how it destroyed everyone around him. It also would have left room for Micah to be an even more interesting character. Though he was ruthless he was actually pretty funny in the earlier chapters, and if they had fleshed him out more he could have had like a "dislike but begrudging respect" kind of dynamic with Arthur by the end of the game. With the way that him, Dutch, and Arthur were the first characters ever introduced it seemed like Rockstar had other plans for him, but instead he ends up getting watered down into the flat, simple "evil and nothing but evil" character, which was most likely because they wanted to have a great final revenege kill for the player to have as John. Dont get me wrong, Micah as a villain and getting to kill him was awesome, but I do think his character and Dutch's fall had more potential
@@krypticunlimited6925that's really fucking good, on my replay, I started to kinda begrudgingly like Micah in the early chapters, and I love your idea of never having a rat in the gang I mean, there's still room for that theory, all we've got is Milton's word that Micah was a rat, and I don't see how Micah would've seen any benefits to being a rat for Milton, I'd argue it was Milton manipulating the gang and forcing them to split, as Dutch said in chapter 2 after Arthur finds the Pinkertons "they're just waiting for us to do something stupid" But Micah being a rat fits with the theories about his hat colour, he's the only one in the gang who wears a white hat, which in the Westerns of the 20s through to the 40s denoted the "good guy", so Micah being a rat, and the good guy could kinda work, like he's a guy who made bad choices, rode with the gang, then turned informant and split up a dangerous gang of outlaws
@@matthewlacey4198I always thought that Micah was pretty badly written and nothing more but a piece of sh!t, but on my 3rd playthrough I realized how terrible the gang truly is and that you play as the bad guys. Micah, even though his motivations are what they are, does the good thing with cooperating with the law and in the end a group of the lowest people in society die, rot in jail or have to be a nobody till the end of their life
@@maciekGTR Here's the thing though, Micah only did that out of self interest, not out of a desire to rid the world of low down criminals. Additionally, Micah was more of a murdering lowlife than any other gang member before and after being a rat. After the gang split up he proceeded to start another one 10 times as big and ruthless, and judging by the fact that he kills(and implicity rapes) a little girl in the epilogue, I dont think he was very concerned with bettering the world. That and the fact that Dutch's gang actually had a set of ideals and boundaries that they followed until the end. They also housed women and a child, which is whats separates them from others like the ODriscolls
@@matthewlacey4198 I remember seeing a comment somewhere that described that alternate character arc for Micah and said "imagine if the game ended with Arthur and Micah working together to protect John from Dutch." I dont know why but that ending is just so awesome to me. The idea of a wretched character like Micah seeing the error of his ways, realizing what he's done to Dutch and the gang, and choosing to help Arthur in his final mission, leading to that dislike but relunctant respect between the two just seems like a super awesome arc. I imagine it would ultimately end with Arthur dying and Micah either dying before him or going to prison, saying something along the lines of "I never did like you, blacklung, but you got real guts" type of thing before going. Its not a redemption or anything, just something to make his character more interesting and somewhat layered. Idk its just a fanfic that I really liked induldging in
I’m so happy I got to experience rdr2 with absolutely no previous knowledge of rdr1 I honestly liked Dutch in the beginning and I got to see him going crazy and the gang fall apart without without knowing it was going to happen
By the end of RDR2, I never personally viewed Dutch as a villain, I was disappointed by his choices and decisions but I never really hated him or anything like that
Same. He's such a conflicting character as you can actually understand his perspective and reasons, and see him wrestle with certain decisions. It's phenomenal writing.
Plus, it was mainly the trolley job that made him insane. Most of his "evil" behavior in RDR2 Ch. 6 and RDR1 is due to his deteriorating brain condition, a factor that he can't control.
My second run of the game convinced me the idea Chapter 6 is "Good Arthur vs. Evil Dutch" is so mistaken. Everyone in the gang, including Dutch, is so miserable, so scared, and they're just trying to do what they think will keep the gang alive. The only person who isn't a mess of nerves and pain is Micah, because he's the one person who explicitly feels nothing for anyone. Honestly, Dutch would have fared "better" if he was as callous and evil as Micah. It was precisely the enormity of his failures and the fact that he cared about them which rocked him so badly when he heard Arthur's words, when he told John he had nothing more to say, and finally when he just killed himself because of those failures. People can hate Dutch but the way these scenes are written is clearly supposed to be emotional and tragic, not "this evil bastard was brought down at last" like with Micah.
@@NikkolasKing I wish I could give more "likes" to your comment. I agree in every way. He CARE about the gang. Yes, he fails miserably, became insane, and hurts everyone around. I understand him, I pity him but I also never forgive him.
@@Felix-on9dr And yet he didn’t kill micah until how many years later? Dutch realized he did wrong and couldn’t even bring himself to apologize to his dying son. Instead he just walked away like a coward.
In the first red dead game it's sad to see Dutch as a Villain, but this connection between rdr 1 and 2 is still impressive, you understand everything as you go further
I don’t feel like Hosea was the only person who questioned Dutch… I feel like Hosea was the only person who Dutch respected enough to listen to. Maybe Dutch had some sort off parent/child dynamic in his head with Arthur and John and was too proud to accept that maybe his “kids” had a point at times, but they both had voiced a variety of concerns to Dutch only to be ignored as lacking faith or whatever like he was a cult leader.
To be honest Dutch started doubting Hosea as well near the end of chapter 4. Spoilers but, Hosea is against going after Bronte, and Dutch calls him weak behind his back. He tells Arthur that Hosea's losing his spine or something among those lines. He's way too delusional and hot tempered to listen to anybody, even Hosea
I do like how in rdr1 when he dies, you do feel somewhat sorry for him because you know this was the life he grew up and known plus learnt. He was already wanted man and was too late for him to change for the better.
The Micah edit was amazing, 10/10 did not expect that, I was looking at stuff and lisenting to this thinking my spotify started playing then I check the tab and saw what was actually going on. Amazing surprise lol.
Another aspect of a perfect villain is that the challenges and problems they cause help the protagonist to grow and develop in ways they never would have otherwise. Given the dynamic between Dutch and Arthur, and how basically everything that Arthur does can be directly tied to Dutch, I'd say Dutch's character more than accomplishes that
Great video, man ! He was just also such a profoundly good character because I felt such a punch in the heart when Dutch left Arthur for dead or lied about John’s death. You always rolled your eyes at the TV when he mentioned “having a plan” or “one last big score” but when he stooped that low, it made me well up a bit because not only was Arthur nearing the end but Dutch (the sort of rock in the gang) now finally reached it.
Dutch kind of reminds me of Walter White in regards to the debate surrounding the growing immorality of his actions. Was he someone who gradually became more corrupted due to his experiences during the main story? Or did those experiences instead just reveal who he really was the whole time?
(I’m going to copy another comment that I agree) with and say it’s more of an ego thing each robbery that fails Dutch needs the next to be twice as big, until it gets to an unimaginable amount (which it does) and he his sons see through his actions, Micah just is always there for Dutch, he pulled the strings of dutch’s ego. Also if he’s really like Walter white then yeah Dutch is just being his true self. Edit: here’s another fact if you go back for the money in the ending,the chest has 42000 that’s around 1.5 million, so yeah you could’ve been to Tahiti but Dutch loves being in charge and being a criminal, he just got sloppy.
He became more damaged as time went on. The stress of running a gang, the fear of possible execution by hanging, manipulation from Micah, and let's not forget, the trolley incident, all made him into the maniac we know in RDR1.
@@knightmare_edits not really Dutch had 42000 in his chest that’s more than enough to get to Tahiti and he had that money for awhile he didn’t give a shit about the gang only himself
@@Some_guy-on-the-internet We know how much money the gang has from Arthur's journal. The gang at the end of Chapter 4 had a little under $15,000 i.imgur.com/7ktbVLO.jpg Most of the money in the chest is from the train robbery that takes place immediately before the end of the game. Also Arthur himself says at the start of Chapter 6 in "Just A Social Call" that the gang needs more money.
Dutch's brain damage in the trolley and Hosea's death were the things that sped up his downfall, but in the end it was his never ending greed and ego that he hid behind a wall of charisma that led to the suffering of so many
"To make a perfect villain you must make them likable" That one's so true. Think of Joker from Batman, so many people relate to him even though he is a terrible person, and that alongside Dutch exemplifies the need to make characters grey in media in order to have an impact, a perfect villain, protagonist, you name it, has to be human in terms of their character, flaws and strengths
Just like the others said, I never saw Dutch towards the ending, rather a broken man who had lost everything. His family, everything they built and his charisma.
At the end, Dutch was broken by the death of Hosea, losing his spirit he is easily persuaded to trust anyone believing in him and calling him family, Micah is awesome at what hes trying to do, psychology plays a huge role and I am glad it goes deep like this
I didnt mind Micah at first. Thought he'd turn out to be a good dude until the ladder half of the gang. I thought they were building him up to be a red herring and thought he was bad ass and funny at first. The deeper it got the more my perception was shifted and I understood what he really was all along, but I can't be the only one who was fooled at first lmao.
Micah isn’t as great as everyone says. He’s good yeah but not one of the “greats” there’s characters you’re meant to hate in almost every piece of media
Micah wasn’t exactly responsible for the downfall of the gang on his own. The gang’s end began immediately after the blackwater massacre. The law was becoming more prominent. The holes in Dutch’s ideals were beginning to show. So yeah the gang would’ve eventually fallen apart even without Micah. Micah was like a catalyst, but he did lead to many gang members dying
like arthur said whats happening to dutch is from Blackwater or maybe years before so I think he is just a bad person from the start and we couldnt see it cuz we liked him , Great video btw and u deserve more
The controls on that first train were so frustrating and I was a bit turned off by the cores, I almost dropped this game right away, but the moment we got to horseshoe overlook and I was free to explore, I fell in love. Can't believe I almost didn't play it.
How Dutch went insane will probably will never get revealed. There are so many theories, but the power ratio to Hosea and his death makes sense, he went nuts after it.
It really puts in perspective how far Dutch falls (or rather how much he becomes who he truly was all along, depending on who you ask) when he and John interact in 1911: “You and your friend, the professor? We’re gonna kill the both of ya.” “Now why would you go and do a thing like that?” “I dunno . . . sport, I guess.”
There are a lot of things to consider. Dutch believed himself the sole responsible one for everyone despite Arthur and Hosea being there. His head injury most likely ruined his ability to either hide his insanity and delusion because you see him snap at Hosea in colter so the faith-talk was always there. He wasnt sure about the bank and Hosea persuaded him, then he loses Hosea at the same job, almost loses Arthur and believed John a traitor. Micah definitely used that to his advantage and the Pinkertons were on their way anyway. The gang are all "bad" depending on who's point of view, so id say yes Dutch is bad, but the situation definitely didnt help him
It's incredible how it starts out as if he is a father figure to a Family. Then by chapter 6 we realize he is a Killer who puts himself above everyone. Willing to abandon the only Family he had left, Dutch called them his " *Sons* " but left both of them to die
I didnt play rdr1 so i had no idea, that dutch might be the villain in this story. But i started to doubt him early in the game after finding his written speech in horseshoe overlook. It seemed strange to me, that someone would plan his words in the exact detail before making a speech which seemed spontaneous to me at the time. This revealed to me that he is just a pretender and a false messiah trying to fool people (including his "family") just to survive.
I have a question about Micah: was any of his plans in the first chapters a good one with a successful outcome? Where he had proven himself? There was the ferry job in Blackwater, the thing in Strawberry where he got arrested, the stagecoach robbery (which brought money but didn't go as planned and was just a mess), the suggestion to move to Dewberry Creek, the parley with Colm O'Driscoll, trusting the Grays (which led to the whole mess in Rhodes)... I mean, EVERYTHING with him turned into a mess. But still, Dutch trusted him and his plans? Especially after Guarma? I mean... HOW? The only thing Micah got right was manipulating Dutch. Sorry for the long comment, it's just another point I figured out after all these years. Btw, great video!
Every time I play this game I know what's going to happen, but a large part of me still hopes for a better ending, an ending that hasn't been seen before and an ending which ends with Arthur surviving
To answer your final question, it's a little bit of both. It's easy to be good when things are going good, but when the chips are down, the person that you are deep underneath will arise.
During the bank robbery in which Hosea and Lenny are killed, Dutch hits his head and mentions he doesn't feel right. After that, seemingly, his downturn accelerates. Makes me think maybe he's experiencing some sort of brain damage/severe paranoia.
That was during the trolley job, which was what set Dutch off and made him kill Bronte. I think the actual injury is a red herring, and that the real purpose of its mention is to further intensify Dutch's hatred for Bronte after the mission. How could Bronte, a slimy snake with no morals who's willing to use a child as leverage, come close to the idea of even trying to hurt Dutch Van der Linde, a passionate, charismatic leader of a noble cause, let alone hurt him physically to a great extent
For a prequel, in my opinion, Rockstar did a pretty good job explaining everything that was never explained in the first place. We can only hope rdr3 will eventually come and won't be cancelled, and that it's actually a good game like rdr1 and rdr2.
when it comes to Dutch I think I know what made him on hinge and Red Dead 2 there's one mission when Dutch got hurt in the trolley crash I think this man has a concussion I say that because Dutch began acting differently Even during that mission he complains about head pains but yes I agree to make a good villain he must be likeable 👍👍
I think that Dutch is a cautionary tale on what happens if you put too much faith in ideals. You can put too much faith in an ideal and be disappointed and so, with no alternative, crumble into bitterness at the world. Or, your 'ideals' become smoke and mirrors to cover up your ulterior agenda.
Bro, since the beginning I never liked Dutch, so charismatic, sarcastic, acts like a saviour... I can't deny that he's so charming that I even forgot that I felt uncomfortable around him. And at the end I was right
Dutch was just a lost child, with a talent for populism, standing on the edge of good and evil. Micah was the one to push him over the edge and lose himself.
dutch always put the gang in a crutch while arthur always came in clutch jack deserved much micah was a sun of a gun sean was fun john was done and the gang met a sorry end to their run. (im out of other words that rhyme)
Micah deceived Dutch by acting loyal to him as his "yes man". However, Arthur was Dutch's most loyal member. While Micah would tell Dutch what he WANTS to hear, Arthur would tell Dutch what he SHOULD hear.
tbh, this was noted vearily heavily in gta 4 too. I mean, everyone despised darko brevic for his actions, but i am quite sure we all hated dimitry rascalov more
Everything was going wrong even before the game started, The blackwater massacre and all the later things happening in the story is just making dutch descend into further madness. And i didn't even mention the gang pressuring him and his own metaphorical son, Arthur going against his orders while micah is whispering into his ears. he couldn't handle the pressure and snapped. Turned into the thing he most despises.
honestly the scene of angelo bronte dying didnt really have the kind of impact that it should have on me, because i thought he deserved it. figured we were gonna wack the guy anyway
I was surprised when Dutch killed Bronte. But not in a negative way. I thought:"Well guess that was going to happen anyway". And i didn't even care about it when he killed that old lady in Guarma. It was not completely unnecessary because even if he just knocked her out she could have screamed for help. The first time i was really disappointed was when he left Arthur in the Cornwall factory. I just thought about why would he do that.
Dutch killed Mica, because he know he was the cause of destroying his boys, and Arthur the big boy of Dutch, my English is not good, but I am trying like Arthur, Dutch wasn't loved Arthur or Mica or Marston, he just loves herself, His boys were just like a tool or guns to achieve he dreams , and when he took what he wanted from anyone from his boys he left him, and didn't care about him.
Is he a bad person? Depends what you considered a bad person. Just like with an alcoholic - he did so much wrongness, hurt everyone, failed - but he suffered great pain, always struggle, and truly wanted to do the right thing, even if that was impossible to create a better world where everyone could be free.
Micah to me has similarities to Trevor from gta 5. Trevor wouldn’t hesitate to stab people in the back for money or hate, in the mission fresh meat for example, Trevor wanted Michael to die with no guilt. Trevor wanted his own rules and his own ways. The difference is the way they do it. Micah tricks people and Trevor will just shoot you
Micah wasn't the only one to blame for the gang falling apart. Times were changing anyway, and like Arthur said, "Maybe we don't need a rat. Maybe we're just getting sloppy.".
part of me actually feels like the story would have been even better if there never was a rat. Think of the scenario: the whole game leads the player to think that the gang is falling apart because of a rat, but at the end of it all, it turns out there never was one, and it was simply Dutch's increasing recklessness and greed that was driving them into the ground, nothing else.
It would have been a great twist that further enforces how far Dutch fell into insanity and how it destroyed everyone around him. It also would have left room for Micah to be an even more interesting character. Though he was ruthless he was actually pretty funny in the earlier chapters, and if they had fleshed him out more he could have had like a "dislike but begrudging respect" kind of dynamic with Arthur by the end of the game. With the way that him, Dutch, and Arthur were the first characters ever introduced it seemed like Rockstar had other plans for him, but instead he ends up getting watered down into the flat, simple "evil and nothing but evil" character, which was most likely because they wanted to have a great final revenege kill for the player to have as John. Dont get me wrong, Micah as a villain and getting to kill him was awesome, but I do think his character and Dutch's fall had more potential
@@krypticunlimited6925that's really fucking good, on my replay, I started to kinda begrudgingly like Micah in the early chapters, and I love your idea of never having a rat in the gang
I mean, there's still room for that theory, all we've got is Milton's word that Micah was a rat, and I don't see how Micah would've seen any benefits to being a rat for Milton, I'd argue it was Milton manipulating the gang and forcing them to split, as Dutch said in chapter 2 after Arthur finds the Pinkertons "they're just waiting for us to do something stupid"
But Micah being a rat fits with the theories about his hat colour, he's the only one in the gang who wears a white hat, which in the Westerns of the 20s through to the 40s denoted the "good guy", so Micah being a rat, and the good guy could kinda work, like he's a guy who made bad choices, rode with the gang, then turned informant and split up a dangerous gang of outlaws
@@matthewlacey4198I always thought that Micah was pretty badly written and nothing more but a piece of sh!t, but on my 3rd playthrough I realized how terrible the gang truly is and that you play as the bad guys. Micah, even though his motivations are what they are, does the good thing with cooperating with the law and in the end a group of the lowest people in society die, rot in jail or have to be a nobody till the end of their life
@@maciekGTR Here's the thing though, Micah only did that out of self interest, not out of a desire to rid the world of low down criminals. Additionally, Micah was more of a murdering lowlife than any other gang member before and after being a rat. After the gang split up he proceeded to start another one 10 times as big and ruthless, and judging by the fact that he kills(and implicity rapes) a little girl in the epilogue, I dont think he was very concerned with bettering the world.
That and the fact that Dutch's gang actually had a set of ideals and boundaries that they followed until the end. They also housed women and a child, which is whats separates them from others like the ODriscolls
@@matthewlacey4198 I remember seeing a comment somewhere that described that alternate character arc for Micah and said "imagine if the game ended with Arthur and Micah working together to protect John from Dutch."
I dont know why but that ending is just so awesome to me. The idea of a wretched character like Micah seeing the error of his ways, realizing what he's done to Dutch and the gang, and choosing to help Arthur in his final mission, leading to that dislike but relunctant respect between the two just seems like a super awesome arc. I imagine it would ultimately end with Arthur dying and Micah either dying before him or going to prison, saying something along the lines of "I never did like you, blacklung, but you got real guts" type of thing before going. Its not a redemption or anything, just something to make his character more interesting and somewhat layered. Idk its just a fanfic that I really liked induldging in
Bro just dropped the hardest Micah edit and thought we wouldnt notice.
It goes so hard 😂
exactly what i was gonna say
No hate to ImTwxn but that edit isn't the original. It was by Fox Clips overall a good video 👍
I made one like that
🤓
The hypocrisy of Dutch between his views in red dead 1 vs his views in red dead 2 were crazy to me, it made me appreciate the writing much more
His views changed significantly after the trolley job.
@@knightmare_editsyeah but he has been crazy from the start
@@knightmare_editsbtw your edits are epic ❤❤❤
I mean, he is explicitly insane in the first game, from John's own dialogue and from just listening to anything he says.
Theirs no such thing as somebody not a hypocrite and that’s 100 percent facts.
I’m so happy I got to experience rdr2 with absolutely no previous knowledge of rdr1 I honestly liked Dutch in the beginning and I got to see him going crazy and the gang fall apart without without knowing it was going to happen
Yea same here I still like him ngl
Man it had been so many years since I had played RDR1 that I completely forgot that Dutch was in it.
Same here played the game with no knowledge of the first when I finished rdr2 immediately started rdr1
Same here! I don't have a PS so I only played RDR2. I hope they make the remake of RDR1!
@@nicocuyano10 I heard they are remastering it so most likely. Been waiting for the remaster to play it
By the end of RDR2, I never personally viewed Dutch as a villain, I was disappointed by his choices and decisions but I never really hated him or anything like that
Same. He's such a conflicting character as you can actually understand his perspective and reasons, and see him wrestle with certain decisions. It's phenomenal writing.
Plus, it was mainly the trolley job that made him insane. Most of his "evil" behavior in RDR2 Ch. 6 and RDR1 is due to his deteriorating brain condition, a factor that he can't control.
@@knightmare_edits I agree with that
My second run of the game convinced me the idea Chapter 6 is "Good Arthur vs. Evil Dutch" is so mistaken. Everyone in the gang, including Dutch, is so miserable, so scared, and they're just trying to do what they think will keep the gang alive. The only person who isn't a mess of nerves and pain is Micah, because he's the one person who explicitly feels nothing for anyone. Honestly, Dutch would have fared "better" if he was as callous and evil as Micah.
It was precisely the enormity of his failures and the fact that he cared about them which rocked him so badly when he heard Arthur's words, when he told John he had nothing more to say, and finally when he just killed himself because of those failures. People can hate Dutch but the way these scenes are written is clearly supposed to be emotional and tragic, not "this evil bastard was brought down at last" like with Micah.
@@NikkolasKing I wish I could give more "likes" to your comment. I agree in every way. He CARE about the gang. Yes, he fails miserably, became insane, and hurts everyone around. I understand him, I pity him but I also never forgive him.
Even at the end, I could never bring myself to hate Dutch. Rather when he leaves Arthur I get this profound sense of sadness instead.
Yeah in the end you can see that he truly cared about arthur.
@@Felix-on9drMore like he realized that he’s a coward
@@suave9184 he realized that he was wrong Micah was the rat Arthur was right
@@Felix-on9dr And yet he didn’t kill micah until how many years later? Dutch realized he did wrong and couldn’t even bring himself to apologize to his dying son. Instead he just walked away like a coward.
@@suave9184 true
In the first red dead game it's sad to see Dutch as a Villain, but this connection between rdr 1 and 2 is still impressive, you understand everything as you go further
Wait he was in revolver?
@@ooooothatsshit158 I meant the red dead 1 and red dead 2 game, He's not in the revolver as I know
@@mzoli95 oh darn i got hyped alr lol
I don’t feel like Hosea was the only person who questioned Dutch… I feel like Hosea was the only person who Dutch respected enough to listen to. Maybe Dutch had some sort off parent/child dynamic in his head with Arthur and John and was too proud to accept that maybe his “kids” had a point at times, but they both had voiced a variety of concerns to Dutch only to be ignored as lacking faith or whatever like he was a cult leader.
To be honest Dutch started doubting Hosea as well near the end of chapter 4. Spoilers but, Hosea is against going after Bronte, and Dutch calls him weak behind his back. He tells Arthur that Hosea's losing his spine or something among those lines. He's way too delusional and hot tempered to listen to anybody, even Hosea
I do like how in rdr1 when he dies, you do feel somewhat sorry for him because you know this was the life he grew up and known plus learnt. He was already wanted man and was too late for him to change for the better.
If you can’t be good might as well be bad.
@@zorroblings6886 yeah but I believe he was bad from the start 😭
The Micah edit was amazing, 10/10 did not expect that, I was looking at stuff and lisenting to this thinking my spotify started playing then I check the tab and saw what was actually going on. Amazing surprise lol.
I love your indept analysis on Dutch, I hope you post more videos like this. Best channel I've subscribed to.
Facts ❤ we love to see more 🎉
I red inept and your comment became rather backhanded
Brother, you mean *in-depth
Another aspect of a perfect villain is that the challenges and problems they cause help the protagonist to grow and develop in ways they never would have otherwise. Given the dynamic between Dutch and Arthur, and how basically everything that Arthur does can be directly tied to Dutch, I'd say Dutch's character more than accomplishes that
this is an amazing video essay. you deserve many more subscribers
Thank you bro means a lot!
This video was so good that he even included an decent edit half way through while explaining why someone was manipulative
Ikr was amazing ❤
Great video, man ! He was just also such a profoundly good character because I felt such a punch in the heart when Dutch left Arthur for dead or lied about John’s death. You always rolled your eyes at the TV when he mentioned “having a plan” or “one last big score” but when he stooped that low, it made me well up a bit because not only was Arthur nearing the end but Dutch (the sort of rock in the gang) now finally reached it.
Bro just made the hardest Micah edit and then carried on with the video like nothing happened
Dutch kind of reminds me of Walter White in regards to the debate surrounding the growing immorality of his actions.
Was he someone who gradually became more corrupted due to his experiences during the main story? Or did those experiences instead just reveal who he really was the whole time?
i want to believe and really hope it's the first option for both characters
(I’m going to copy another comment that I agree) with and say it’s more of an ego thing each robbery that fails Dutch needs the next to be twice as big, until it gets to an unimaginable amount (which it does) and he his sons see through his actions, Micah just is always there for Dutch, he pulled the strings of dutch’s ego. Also if he’s really like Walter white then yeah Dutch is just being his true self.
Edit: here’s another fact if you go back for the money in the ending,the chest has 42000 that’s around 1.5 million, so yeah you could’ve been to Tahiti but Dutch loves being in charge and being a criminal, he just got sloppy.
He became more damaged as time went on. The stress of running a gang, the fear of possible execution by hanging, manipulation from Micah, and let's not forget, the trolley incident, all made him into the maniac we know in RDR1.
@@knightmare_edits not really Dutch had 42000 in his chest that’s more than enough to get to Tahiti and he had that money for awhile he didn’t give a shit about the gang only himself
@@Some_guy-on-the-internet We know how much money the gang has from Arthur's journal. The gang at the end of Chapter 4 had a little under $15,000 i.imgur.com/7ktbVLO.jpg
Most of the money in the chest is from the train robbery that takes place immediately before the end of the game.
Also Arthur himself says at the start of Chapter 6 in "Just A Social Call" that the gang needs more money.
Awesome video man, hope to see more in the future
Dutch's gaslighting was so effective he managed to gaslight the RDR2 fanbase into thinking he went crazy
Dutch's brain damage in the trolley and Hosea's death were the things that sped up his downfall, but in the end it was his never ending greed and ego that he hid behind a wall of charisma that led to the suffering of so many
Learn what gaslighting is kid
Damn i didnt realize you only had 1k subs, you need more the quality of this video is great
Hosea was the angel on Dutch's shoulder. Micah became the devil on his shoulder.
But then the angel died and Dutch became what he has always truly been
@@Some_guy-on-the-internet I think the way you live for twenty years is who you are, not when your family dies in a month.
@@NikkolasKing Dutch was insane Hosea was the nail in the coffin
@@Some_guy-on-the-internetI liked Dutch before chapter 4
But now I realized that he was a little crazy from beginning
@@NikkolasKingyou show who you really are when you’re alone not when you’re surrounded
"To make a perfect villain you must make them likable"
That one's so true. Think of Joker from Batman, so many people relate to him even though he is a terrible person, and that alongside Dutch exemplifies the need to make characters grey in media in order to have an impact, a perfect villain, protagonist, you name it, has to be human in terms of their character, flaws and strengths
These edits go hard
Just like the others said, I never saw Dutch towards the ending, rather a broken man who had lost everything. His family, everything they built and his charisma.
When Micah said “just live your life and when it’s time go out shooting!” I guess John decided that was only way to go out as well. 😢
At the end, Dutch was broken by the death of Hosea, losing his spirit he is easily persuaded to trust anyone believing in him and calling him family, Micah is awesome at what hes trying to do, psychology plays a huge role and I am glad it goes deep like this
DUTCH: HOW DARE YOU MAKE THIS VIDEO SON!!! YOU WANNA BE THE GENERAL!!!!!!!!!!
I didnt mind Micah at first. Thought he'd turn out to be a good dude until the ladder half of the gang. I thought they were building him up to be a red herring and thought he was bad ass and funny at first. The deeper it got the more my perception was shifted and I understood what he really was all along, but I can't be the only one who was fooled at first lmao.
Normaly ı never watch a anything but shorts . But this video is amazing
❤️
Dutch, Micah and Arthur are probably some of the greatest characters (Micah s a great character because you hate him, which is the point of him)
Micah isn’t as great as everyone says. He’s good yeah but not one of the “greats” there’s characters you’re meant to hate in almost every piece of media
@@JackycakesV2 i meant in the game good sir
I don't really hate micah tbh...
@@JackycakesV2I disagree.
@@JackycakesV2Micah is incredibly well written
Micah wasn’t exactly responsible for the downfall of the gang on his own. The gang’s end began immediately after the blackwater massacre. The law was becoming more prominent. The holes in Dutch’s ideals were beginning to show. So yeah the gang would’ve eventually fallen apart even without Micah. Micah was like a catalyst, but he did lead to many gang members dying
Don't forget the blackwater massacre was Micah's idea tho
@@gaboogarciaavand Dutch accepted it. And he’s the guy who killed an innocent woman which made it way bigger
@@JackycakesV2encouraged by micah, again
@@sotch2271 Dutch did it mercilessly. He just needed someone to tell him. Whether Micah, Arthur, or hosea
like arthur said whats happening to dutch is from Blackwater or maybe years before so I think he is just a bad person from the start and we couldnt see it cuz we liked him , Great video btw and u deserve more
bro casually dropped the best Micah edit ever and didn't think we would notice
Honestly I think he went crazy when his best friend got shot in front of him and he was the only leader cuz Hosea was the second leader
The controls on that first train were so frustrating and I was a bit turned off by the cores, I almost dropped this game right away, but the moment we got to horseshoe overlook and I was free to explore, I fell in love. Can't believe I almost didn't play it.
The micah edit goes hard
Finally an essay that's not unnecessarily 4 hours long
Brotha actually dropped the hardest rat edit, people aint talking enough about it.
Dutch van der Linde is basically the RDR version of Walter White from Breaking Bad.
Dutch lies “he has a plan” as much as Walter lies “he does it for his family”
@@petermj1098 Exactly.
How Dutch went insane will probably will never get revealed. There are so many theories, but the power ratio to Hosea and his death makes sense, he went nuts after it.
Because there was no one to hold him back. And when the only other person he had high in command started seriously doubting him he needed a yes man.
3:08 what mission is that dialogue from?
"Son, just what the HELL is ligma?"
It really puts in perspective how far Dutch falls (or rather how much he becomes who he truly was all along, depending on who you ask) when he and John interact in 1911:
“You and your friend, the professor? We’re gonna kill the both of ya.”
“Now why would you go and do a thing like that?”
“I dunno . . . sport, I guess.”
That edit was unnecessary...
Unnecessarily good, goddam
There are a lot of things to consider. Dutch believed himself the sole responsible one for everyone despite Arthur and Hosea being there. His head injury most likely ruined his ability to either hide his insanity and delusion because you see him snap at Hosea in colter so the faith-talk was always there. He wasnt sure about the bank and Hosea persuaded him, then he loses Hosea at the same job, almost loses Arthur and believed John a traitor.
Micah definitely used that to his advantage and the Pinkertons were on their way anyway. The gang are all "bad" depending on who's point of view, so id say yes Dutch is bad, but the situation definitely didnt help him
Yeah its really crazy to me that I really like Dutch even playing both games to the end a bunch of times
It's incredible how it starts out as if he is a father figure to a Family.
Then by chapter 6 we realize he is a Killer who puts himself above everyone. Willing to abandon the only Family he had left, Dutch called them his " *Sons* " but left both of them to die
I beat the game 8 times so I think I'm ready to watch this video
Bro you just said everything that happened to me while playing love the vid keep it up 🫡
Lmao thank you 🫡
bro just casually dropped the first good micah edit in the middle of an analysis video ????
I didnt play rdr1 so i had no idea, that dutch might be the villain in this story.
But i started to doubt him early in the game after finding his written speech in horseshoe overlook.
It seemed strange to me, that someone would plan his words in the exact detail before making a speech which seemed spontaneous to me at the time.
This revealed to me that he is just a pretender and a false messiah trying to fool people (including his "family") just to survive.
I have a question about Micah: was any of his plans in the first chapters a good one with a successful outcome? Where he had proven himself?
There was the ferry job in Blackwater, the thing in Strawberry where he got arrested, the stagecoach robbery (which brought money but didn't go as planned and was just a mess), the suggestion to move to Dewberry Creek, the parley with Colm O'Driscoll, trusting the Grays (which led to the whole mess in Rhodes)...
I mean, EVERYTHING with him turned into a mess.
But still, Dutch trusted him and his plans? Especially after Guarma? I mean... HOW?
The only thing Micah got right was manipulating Dutch. Sorry for the long comment, it's just another point I figured out after all these years.
Btw, great video!
Every time I play this game I know what's going to happen, but a large part of me still hopes for a better ending, an ending that hasn't been seen before and an ending which ends with Arthur surviving
To answer your final question, it's a little bit of both. It's easy to be good when things are going good, but when the chips are down, the person that you are deep underneath will arise.
Bro I loved that he feed him to a gator
During the bank robbery in which Hosea and Lenny are killed, Dutch hits his head and mentions he doesn't feel right. After that, seemingly, his downturn accelerates. Makes me think maybe he's experiencing some sort of brain damage/severe paranoia.
That was during the trolley job, which was what set Dutch off and made him kill Bronte. I think the actual injury is a red herring, and that the real purpose of its mention is to further intensify Dutch's hatred for Bronte after the mission. How could Bronte, a slimy snake with no morals who's willing to use a child as leverage, come close to the idea of even trying to hurt Dutch Van der Linde, a passionate, charismatic leader of a noble cause, let alone hurt him physically to a great extent
Dutch didn't need brain damage to convince himself a woman in the head in Blackwater.
I hate to give it to him but 3:08 micah has a good speech
Best game story ever
i liked the video from Saudi Arabia
For a prequel, in my opinion, Rockstar did a pretty good job explaining everything that was never explained in the first place. We can only hope rdr3 will eventually come and won't be cancelled, and that it's actually a good game like rdr1 and rdr2.
Micah didn't initially hate arthur untill after guama when it was clear the gang was nit going to survive
These words, words of yours have too much truth behind!!
Best Micah edit
2:02 he became Colm O'Driscoll 2.0
Vaas is the perfect villain in my opinion
Good video Twxn!
when it comes to Dutch I think I know what made him on hinge and Red Dead 2 there's one mission when Dutch got hurt in the trolley crash I think this man has a concussion I say that because Dutch began acting differently Even during that mission he complains about head pains but yes I agree to make a good villain he must be likeable 👍👍
I think that Dutch is a cautionary tale on what happens if you put too much faith in ideals.
You can put too much faith in an ideal and be disappointed and so, with no alternative, crumble into bitterness at the world.
Or, your 'ideals' become smoke and mirrors to cover up your ulterior agenda.
Honestly rdr2 is the first rockstar game that i had to finish 100% just so i could see that cutscene.
Bro, since the beginning I never liked Dutch, so charismatic, sarcastic, acts like a saviour... I can't deny that he's so charming that I even forgot that I felt uncomfortable around him. And at the end I was right
Playing read dead 1 pretty much makes you see all the lies and the way he manipulates the gang from the start
you did micah so well in that edit , he is an asshole but my god is he a badass
Great Video!
Micah wasnt the only reason for the fall. Was a one of the largest reasons but not the largest.
amazing vid but i started to dislike dutch only after he refused to save john and abigail leaving jackie without parents
Dutch was just a lost child, with a talent for populism, standing on the edge of good and evil.
Micah was the one to push him over the edge and lose himself.
dutch always put the gang in a crutch while arthur always came in clutch jack deserved much micah was a sun of a gun sean was fun john was done and the gang met a sorry end to their run. (im out of other words that rhyme)
And Karen had buns🎉
Then there's RDR1 where you hate agent Ross...
What a well made video!
Micah deceived Dutch by acting loyal to him as his "yes man". However, Arthur was Dutch's most loyal member. While Micah would tell Dutch what he WANTS to hear, Arthur would tell Dutch what he SHOULD hear.
I mean, before the Bronte death scene we watched him execute one of Catherine Braithwaite's sons in front of her 💀💀
tbh, this was noted vearily heavily in gta 4 too. I mean, everyone despised darko brevic for his actions, but i am quite sure we all hated dimitry rascalov more
Great video.
Hosea always was right
If Dutch atleast listened him,he probably can avoided that horrible aftermath
Everything was going wrong even before the game started, The blackwater massacre and all the later things happening in the story is just making dutch descend into further madness. And i didn't even mention the gang pressuring him and his own metaphorical son, Arthur going against his orders while micah is whispering into his ears. he couldn't handle the pressure and snapped. Turned into the thing he most despises.
Dutch's downfall reminds me or Clay Morrows from Sons Of Anarchy
honestly the scene of angelo bronte dying didnt really have the kind of impact that it should have on me, because i thought he deserved it. figured we were gonna wack the guy anyway
i don't think dutch killing bronte was evil but what made it different was way he went about it
Micah on that Sigma Male Bellset
I was surprised when Dutch killed Bronte. But not in a negative way. I thought:"Well guess that was going to happen anyway". And i didn't even care about it when he killed that old lady in Guarma. It was not completely unnecessary because even if he just knocked her out she could have screamed for help. The first time i was really disappointed was when he left Arthur in the Cornwall factory. I just thought about why would he do that.
i dont even wanna call dutch a villian
Dutch killed Mica, because he know he was the cause of destroying his boys, and Arthur the big boy of Dutch, my English is not good, but I am trying like Arthur, Dutch wasn't loved Arthur or Mica or Marston, he just loves herself, His boys were just like a tool or guns to achieve he dreams , and when he took what he wanted from anyone from his boys he left him, and didn't care about him.
Is he a bad person? Depends what you considered a bad person. Just like with an alcoholic - he did so much wrongness, hurt everyone, failed - but he suffered great pain, always struggle, and truly wanted to do the right thing, even if that was impossible to create a better world where everyone could be free.
I liked Micha because all of his missions were fun and exciting and new. Then he killed Arthur and that was the end of that.
He only kills Arthur in the low honor endings
3:44 song?
Late reply, but the song name is spit in my face
I had a goddamn PLAN!!
Rat in the is Abigail, John and her always save from pinkerton
The villain is more important than the protagonist. I want movies that are shot from the villain’s perspective and maybe actually win.
RUclips Recommended
IF WE DON'T GET A LONGER VIDEO WE WILL RIOT (nah im joking i love the video wish it would be longer though)
Micah to me has similarities to Trevor from gta 5.
Trevor wouldn’t hesitate to stab people in the back for money or hate, in the mission fresh meat for example, Trevor wanted Michael to die with no guilt. Trevor wanted his own rules and his own ways. The difference is the way they do it. Micah tricks people and Trevor will just shoot you