In addition to Neo Geo cabinets in Japan the LS-40 was also really often found on Namco Excelina, Taito Egret II and others. At arcades specialized in shumps in Japan the LS-32, LS-40 and JLF were all used pretty equally but still in that order.
That's really interesting. I wonder what the LS-56 was originally designed for? The LS32/40 seem to be a natural progression, with the 32 being a bit nearer to the JLF (but IMO a tighter and just better all-around stick). The 56 kind of looks on paper like it was designed to accomodate larger hands. Maybe it was meant for an overseas market? Maybe that's why it's more popular in the west?
@@neondagger The LS-56 is a part of the LS-33 family. It was designed for arcade machines with narrow panels where full size arcade sticks didn't fit, so it's a part of their compact lineup. That's why the LS-56 isn't found in the arcades often because most cabinets had space for full size sticks. The LS-33 has been discontinued for years but all the compact models: LS-55,56,58,60,62 sticks use the LS-33 PCB. The LS-56 gained popularity when arcade sticks became popular at home and because it's well tuned for all kinds of games. I don't know why the shaft is higher but i'm guessing the most common arcade cabinets with narrower panels it was designed for that determined the height. A taller shaft fits general arcade use really well, depending on the users grip and preference of course but i think most players just adapted to whatever stick the cabinet had and it wasn't specifically designed for shooters. Where i think the LS-56 and all other compact models fall short is the lighter shaft combined with a tiny actuator and switches with shorter levers. Because of the shorter levers the switches are a lot more clickier and have a more of an on/off feel and i feel a little less precision personally because of those. Of course there are a ton of people that swear it's the best joystick for everything and i won't argue their opinion because everyone experiences joysticks a little differently depending on their preference and how they grip it and use it.
@@neondagger Also the LS-56 is popular in the American market because it has an octagon gate and most US made cabinets had octagon gates i think. And because so many youtubers and joystick modders swap an octagon gate on the JLF and LS-56 as their first mod and they tell everyone to do the same because why have a "4 way" guide like in a square gate when you can have an "8 way" with an octagon gate. They miss the whole purpose of a square gate because it's square only because it's whole function is to stop the movement past the activation point and all Japanese sticks are made to be used with a good level of precision and the idea is to use the switches to input directions and not the gate. An octagon also greates notches and limit much of the space that could be used for free movement. So there's a good reason why like 99.9% of Japanese joysticks have come with a square gate as default for the last 40+ years and most models don't even offer an octagon gate :) Just mentioned it because i think that is why when people move from a JLF to a Seimitsu their first choice is often the LS-56 because it also has an octagon gate and is kind of similar but with a shorter throw.
@@epicon6 Very true about personal taste. Wow I'm learning so much. I've found it actually fairly difficult to get reliable information on these sticks but you obviously know your stuff. I always wondered why the 56 looked like it was almost "missing" parts there. Makes sense it's because it has the compact design.
@@epicon6 Yes people are probably relying on the octo-gate and riding it to pull of quarter circles and such in fighting games. With shmups when I'm doing ultra-fine movements I'm not even close to hitting the gate. Just brushing the switches a bit.
As a shmup player, I can give you some insight. From what I heard from the shmups system 11, forum they prefer ls-32s but there are a few players who do like hitbox controllers for shmups
Thanks so much I really appreciate that (I subbed to the channel just now)! And yeah I really haven't looked at the superplayer's setups, but that's really interesting to know. I'm pretty in the dark with what's going on in Japan. If I had known that fact, I probably would have tried it out sooner. I know LS32/LS56 get a lot of attention. So much so that I barely heard about the LS40 until I really looked into it this year.
One of the few videos on RUclips I can find properly discussing the LS-40 at all. Everybody on this site hypes up the flimsy Sanwa LJS and clones, but I wanna build a personal arcade stick that'll last me the next 10 years, and you can just tell on sight that the JLS just isn't built to last.
I really appreciate all the insights and thoughts you're sharing here, as well as the excellent gameplay. I'm recognizing a lot of the levels shown in the footage, and getting anxious, because you're dancing through patterns that have ended my game hundreds of times as though it were a leisurely stroll through the garden. Admittedly, I'm very low skill, even with piles of practice. But, that doesn't mean I'm not having fun. Much of your thinking around the point where you're talking about your wiggle dodging was very illuminating for me, and I think it's giving me insight into some of the mistakes I consistently make while playing shmups. Thanks very much. Oh, and as for how this stick works with other games: How does it perform in Animal Crossing?
Oh make no mistake I struggled with shmups for quite a while, and eventually got better. It's a normal learning curve that you're on. And even here I'm doing training runs, specifically to test out my dodging on the stick. In actual serious runs I would try to play less risky. But more importantly the pressure would be on, so dancing through bullets won't be quite as consistent when nerves are in play. But overall feeling confident on the stick is mostly an accumulation of all of these techniques and knowing how and when to use them. The "wiggle" is definitely a key element for me, which people don't often talk about. Glad you got some insight out of it. As for Animal Crossing, I would probably use the menu system for training if anything at all ;)
Excellent video. I agree with pretty much everything except i like both LS-32 and LS-40 stick heights without any mods. I recommend getting a new Omron switch LS-32 because the deadzone and wobble is reduced because the switches are bent and the activation point is remains about the same but a hair closer than on the original, so the Omron switch LS-32 might be the perfect update for your use. I like the Omron switches better on the LS-32 than the older Matsushita/Panasonic switches because of the improved deadzone and the switches give more feel and feedback and give a better audible higher quality click sound. Also at around late 2020/ early 2021 Seimitsu updated the LS-32 base to higher quality with much higher precision manufacturing and improved the shape of the grease traps that help retain the grease for longer. Don't believe Omron haters before you try one and see for yourself that they improve the LS-32. To me the Matsushita switch LS-40 and the Omron LS-32 are both perfect shmup and general use sticks and i'm glad they are both so great because it would be bad news if there was only one "perfect" joystick because i could never switch to a slightly different feel when i feel like it.
Great info! I was happy to get the same microswitches as my previous LS-32 only because I knew I liked them. But what you're saying makes sense. I still use my LS-32 and this is definitely something I'll try to improve its deadzone (which looked kind of shocking to me in the video when compared to the LS40).
@@neondagger I also have an LS-32 with the old switches and i really like them too and it's always great to be able to experience the same classic feel as in the 90's arcades but i'm also glad to have the Omron switch LS-32 that reduced the deadzone.
3:26 I have used the Omron updated switches on the LS-32 for about 500 hours and i have used the Omron LS-40 switches on the LSX-Nobi-Pro and STD sticks over 1000 hours and in my opinion they are much better than the classic Panasonic/Matsushita switches, especially because they create a smaller and better controlled deadzone on the LS-32. I think the complaints were just about having to get used to something different. I also love the classic switches and i have ten LS-40 with the classic switches and three LS-32 and 16 extra matsushita switches for them because i hoarded them when i heard they were no longer made. If you need a replacement classic switches some day and can't find them anywhere i can propably send you a set of 4.
I'm inclined to think you are right. People do get pretty fussy about what they're used to. Which I can understand. I think I would like to try out those newer switches one day. I'll keep it and mind and thanks for the offer!
@@neondaggerOne of my favorite new sticks for shmups is the silent LSQ-40. I know it's weird because it's a silent stick but it's that good!! It also has straight levers and a larger actuator. And the shaft is a heavier (LS-32 thick from pivot up, LS-40 thick from pivot down) metal shaft without a shaft cover. I think the heavier shaft gives it better control and a higher quality feel and the shaft is 1-2mm taller than an LS-40 shaft. The silent switches are incredibly good and kind of feels like they give more feedback than regular switches. You can also swap a classic LS-40 PCB to it, and then also remember to use the classic LS-40 actuator. And the original shaft can be used on it too of course. It has a different guide that is helpful when the silent switches are installed. It's the same guide that's on the LSX-Nobi-STD but a pure square gate can be used as well. The classic guide works with the silent switches and of course with the classic PCB and the Omron updated PCB needs the updated guide or the classic gate needs to be dremeled around the new soldering points. And i forgot to mention it has a tighter spring to compensate for the heavier shaft and making it a great all arounder for all kinds of games. It's the right amount tighter for a tighter spring option but noticeably lighter than the LS-38 spring. I recommend it because it opens up the LS-40 to a lot of new possibilities. (Edit: i was wrong about the Omron updated PCBs). I actually measured the bent switches on the updated LS-40 and it turned out the differences were in my head because along the wall of the gate all corners activate at exactly 2.5mm from the center of the wall, (both to the direction of the bent side and the root side along all 4 walls). I measured the classic LS-40 pcb corners activating at 2.55mm. I measured them with the Nobi hexagon gate so i could measure the exact middle of the wall of the gate and measured tons of times with exactly same results, so they should be accurate to about 0.25mm which wouldn't make a difference.
By the time I got my Seimitsu LS-32 and LS-40, the Omron switches had replaced the Panasonic switches. Since I never knew how the original Panasonic switches felt I couldn't make any judgments based on that. To me the Omron switches felt fine and I have no issues with either joystick. I vastly prefer the Seimitsu sticks over the Sanwa JLF any day of the week. I'm currently using the LS-40 for All classic arcade genres, but predominantly for fighting games. You do have to be a little bit more careful with the inputs, but it's nowhere near as prone to misinputs as people say it is in my honest opinion. So long as you're playing with intention and you're not jerking the joystick around like a madman you won't get too many misinputs. The only time I noticed I do a misinput is when trying to do a command grab in KOF with Iori, which is a 632146 input, or a hcb f input. Sometimes when I'm doing it really quickly I wind up getting an up input sometime along the way,but if I just adjust my fingers then I can avoid that.
Have you stumbled upon the Kowal throw adapters? They are plates that screw easily into the assembly of any stick (selected at purchase) and drastically shorten the throw to subtract actuation time. I use an octagonal gate on a Special Edition Seimitsu lever which comes with several springs. I use two Kowal adapters stacked which easily actuates exactly as I move without feeling too tight or boxed in. I get a nice click with the micro switches without any noticeable dead zone, yet it doesn’t feel too tight. It works remarkably well for grazing.
Throw adapters shouldn't change the activation, since that's determined by the distance between the actuator and the microswitch. For that mod you would need a Kowal oversize actuator. I've tried one for one of my JLF sticks, and I didn't like it because it felt kind of clunky. Hard to describe. And I went into trying out a Seimitsu one in a different video that didn't turn out so great. As for throw distance, I'm fairly particular about it. I talk about it a bit in this video, where I did the height mod to make a shorter shaft, which does reduce the throw distance. So finding a sweetspot with shaft height and the kowal throw mod both seem like good ideas to me. But I can't vouch for actuator mods since I've had no luck with them so far. Hope that helps!
4:12 i would remove the blue ls-32 sub guide and the yellow ls-40 sub guide from the sticks because they make opposite corners uneven and they are not designed to give better performance. They are there so that arcade owners can keep the sub guides on the sticks in case they some day need to convert the cabinet to 2 way or 4 way games without having to look where the sub guides are stored, but for square gate use they are only in the way. I even cut two sub guides in half and combined both halfs to see if either of the combined versions with even opposite sides would do something but the other one literally does nothing and the other one creates a step in the corners that's only in the way.
The gate was one thing I forgot to talk about. Yes I did find the corners to be a little more "circular" or as you say a step in the middle... not as "locked in" because of the sub-gate. I think I took it off and tried it and felt like it increased the throw. To be honest with you I did so many little adjustments that I was almost driving myself nuts at one point so I had to really pick my battles. And that was one that wasn't too big of a deal to me. For fighting games I like to have a nice square corner (for croach-blocking, charging, etc) but I don't notice it nearly as much when playing shmups. But it is noticeable. I will try it out again soon to make sure it didn't mess with the throw at all.
I'm about to rebuild my Hrap 3 with an LS-62-01 which I picked for a lot of the attributes you've described in the video. Shorter through primarily. Also going to try it with a stiffer spring as well just to see how I like it. Hrap 3 is my fav case design and the one I always come back to. It's currently all Sanwa but I recently sold a Saturn stick that I had kitted out fully Seimitsu / LS-56 and I miss it. The Hrap needs to be brought back to life with all Seimitsu! Edit: LS-62, no shaft cover either. Can't wait to try it. Shaft covers are not for me.
At first I was torn between the 62 and 40. Got great advice from different people on both. I actually don't completely remember why I chose the 40 over the 62, other than that the 40 is most closely designed off of the 32 (which I'm familiar with) whereas the 62 is closer designed off of the 56 (which I'm not familiar with). That and I think the 62 has an octo-gate which I wasnt sure how to convert to a square. But yeah the shaft looks good and the height/throw/engage look great. I think you'll really like it, but the shorter movements might take a bit getting used to at first if you're used to a taller shaft/longer throw. Let me know how it goes once you've tried it out for a bit!
@@neondagger I can't wait to try it out. I'm fully trash at SHMUPs (it's a curse to be so bad at something you love) so I don't think things can get much worse for me. I have some LS 32s kicking around as well as spare gates to try out just in case. Love these types of vids btw, I'll be looking out for what's next!
You must try LS-56 it´s very accuracy stick and not is not sensitive as LS-40 for me it´s great, but i like magstick for Industrias Lorenzo that is the champion sticks and perfect acuracy@@neondagger
Dont but LS-62 buy again LS-56 i have my LS-56-01 with kowal short Throw mod as is near short like Magstick I.L withouth less tension spring, i think that LS-40 is not good because for me can i play with a very weak spring, i like spring like I.L magnetic that are Sanwa jlf
This was an interesting video. I've been trying to decide between the LS-32 and LS-40 as my first Seimitsu lever, and while I'm not sure this video helped me reach a conclusion, I definitely know more about each than I did before. I think the "precision" of the lever is an interesting topic. I also play FPS trainers and tend to think of precision as a combination of speed and accuracy. In that sense, I might be LESS precise with the LS-40, because of the potential incorrect inputs.
I remember when I first got the 32 (coming from Sanwa JLF) it immediately felt better. That's because what I compared it to was so imprecise, but also it didnt have any major glaring issues right away. The 40 was odd because right away 60% of my play improved, but then 40% went backwards. So it just took a bit of time to get that 40% back to where it ought to be. I'm happy with that choice but the 32 is the only one I can recommend across the board. If you're as persistent as I am then maybe the 40 is a better start? Not sure, but hope that helps and good luck!
@@neondagger I think I'm going to wind up buying both and putting one in my vpin table. I wasn't planning on it, but it's just impossible to really make an informed decision without trying them both.
@@griftgfx I agree. I wish I had done that a long time ago. I'll probably buy up some extra sticks sooner than later as eventually these things will be rare and harder to come by in their current form. Even now you might have a bit of challenge getting the 32/40 with the original (often preferred) microswitches (which I mentioned how to source in the video). Let me know how it ends up!
@@neondagger Decided to build out an AFS stick with an LS-32 (I ordered a steel pivot too), but I'm also getting an LS-56 to stick in my portable 8bitdo stick, and I plan to get an LS-40 to try in my current daily driver (which is a hayabusa right now). I mostly play fighting games (and a lot of random arcade games more casually), but I'm getting more into other genres and also using stick for 2D games that I'd use d-pad for in in the past. For someone whose exposure to Japanese levers has mostly been various mods of the JLF, I'm excited to try some new joysticks. I already have various button controllers and a happ/IL stick, so hopefully the only thing left to try after this are some k-levers :D
Heya! I dunno man, as long as the joystick isn’t over terrible I don’t think it’s makes a significant difference to drastically alter your gameplay. I’ve been using a stock JLF since 2000 at home and later in my cab and even though I prefer it to an LS32 because I like a lighter stick, I don’t think it drastically improves your skill. I think a good understanding of the games nuances, identifying the bullets properties, creative strategies and accurate execution outweighs the subtle differences in the feel of a JLF/LS32/40 to make a significant game-changing impact, imo.
I think it depends on an individuals strengths, weaknesses and style of play. Some do much better with anticipation, memory and game knowledge, while others might rely more on precise movements and reaction time. And it can be a spectrum encompassing all of that. For those who require precision, a better performing stick will definitely improve their game. That was definitely in my case. I had reached a bit of a plateau and wasn't improving much on the LS32 after almost 10 years until I switched to LS40. It's like anything performance-related in any sport or activity. Usually its only noticeable to those who can exploit the benefits, and that will depend a lot on their approach/style/ability.
The LS40 I believe has the same spring as the LS32, which is considered on the lighter side of the tension scale. What you might be experiencing is that since the lever is closer to the engage buttons, it feels like more tension because it doesn't travel as far only on spring tension. So basically you have less momentum to hit the buttons and makes it feel more stiff. I felt that too. It was a real challenge to go as light as I like to on it and engage the buttons with minimal input (for micro dodging, as an example). But eventually it got really good and precise for me. My suggestion is to try working on doing really small quarter circles and half circles, and diagonaldown inputs to do micro dodging. Try to go really light and practice that. Thanks for the comment, and good luck!
You might like that extra spring tension for shooters. While I havent used other Seimitsu sticks, the LS62 has a much heavier spring than my JLW and Hayabusa sticks and I found it awesome for shooters since you can really make precise micro movements, click by click. You may just need to adjust to the change.
Nice vid. In my opinion for 99% of people the best stick will simply be the one they find most comfortable, because ultimately success will correlate more with you enjoying yourself and being willing to continue to play over and over again. Some of the best results Ive ever gotten in both shmups and fighting games have been with an old Mayflash universal, for the simple fact that I put in hundreds of hours with that stick and it shaped my muscle memory on a deep level.
This is definitely true on an important level. And generally speaking I would be right there with you. But in this case this stick definitely wasn't the most comfortable thing out of the box for me. And I tried to get across (with rather bad analogies) how sometimes the things that aren't the most comfortable right away are what you need to expose your weaknesses and move beyond them. That was definitely the case for me here. In fact getting better on the LS40 made me even better with the LS32, which I had otherwise plateaued with skill-wise for quite some time. It just made me play a lot more carefully, which was a pain and took effort that maybe many people wouldn't be willing to put in. It's all very dependent on lots of factors. For me it comes down to whether or not you are happy with what you're using, that it's not holding you back. I felt like the 32 was holding me back and I wish I gave this a try earlier. But I will say that during this time of adjusting to the 40, shmups weren't very fun for me. It felt like more work than fun. You don't want to get so neurotic that everything stops being fun entirely. Tricky tightrope to walk!
I know this is old, but I did just get the Seimitsu NOBI Bullet PRO.. it has a super tight gate and is a dream for SHMUPS. The lever is typically used for Tekken pros
Seimitsu is making everyone a Schmuck for buying complete joystick as models where other hobbies sell adjustability in modding. They could have a base model with variable spring tension, shaft length, actuator & gate pairs, gate shape, pivot design, etc Most part it is you not adjusting to the joystick function and what becomes your familiarity to use. Adjustable activation force, travel distance, smoothness, and return speed all give a feel but overall may not change much other than what you've preseen.
I have an ls-40 and I love it but I prefer the ls-56 for shmups and fighting. Even on the site says medium engage, for me is shorter than 40. The throw says medium but for me is only a little bit more than 40. On the site says sanwa is medium too, but for me is everything long. So at the end its a matter of tastes. And for me the 56 with octogate is my overall best joystick.
Interesting! Do you know if your 56 is mounted lower or higher (S plates typically mount higher, while flat plates mount a bit lower which shortens the shaft)? I found shaft height has the most impact on the feel of the throw. I agree Sanwas always felt like a long throw, but I did once mount a Sanwa with a very short Hori shaft and was surprised that it felt much closer to my standard mounted LS32 in its throw distance. Even panel angle, spring tension and all of these little details can impact the perception of "looseness" and whatnot. Thanks for the great input!
@@neondagger I have a flat plate on both, and the shaft is a little bit larger on the ls56. But for me the engage is shorter and the throw a little bit longer. I bought a kowal mod to shorten the 56's throw, and it works. You can make it way more shorter than the 40. Anyway I don't know yet if a like it this way. For now I like the default config more. And for the spring, I have a special ls56 version wich comes with a soft spring. On this aspect I like more the tension on the 40. It helps with the tightness. I'm thinking of changing the 56's spring to a rigid one. Besides any config, the ls40 is amazing. You can have great results with this stick. I love them and I can play at the same level with both. Btw great gameplays and videos. Try to upload more.
@@superhadouken Thanks for the details! I tried the Kowal throw shortening mod on my Sanwa JLF and I didn't like the feel. It had a squared-off actuators that just kind of felt clunky to me. Like I can feel the actuator hitting the switches and I didn't like it. Not sure if it's the same in your experience. And thanks for the nice words. Pretty sure I will be putting out videos at a higher rate this winter!
@@neondagger I tried that too. It helps to get sanwas better but for me they can't compete with a seimitsu joystick. Sanwa is overrated as hell. I don't like it. The ls-56 mod is not on the actuator. It's a mod to alter the joystick's height that change the throw. Make a quick google search and you will find it. Anyway I like it more on default.
@@superhadouken ah, I got you. Yeah I replaced all of my Sanwa's now except for one stick. It's all Seimitsu for me now until or unless I try something unusual that really blows me away.
I like the Ultrasticks from ultimarc. They are fully programmable, magnetic (no switches), with many options for different shafts, spring, resistors and top. No separate board required as they can control and program up to 8 arcade buttons (15 with the shift function)
Myself, I'm all for the mechanical switches. I love the feel and resistence. And I actually like the clicky sound which helps tell me how much force I'm using. It would be interesting to try one out though!
The secret is a circular/octagonal restrictor plate so you can move horizontal/vertical with as much throw (area) as you can sideways. That's it. The rest is personal preference.
Gates are also a matter of preference. I personally have a hard time with circle gates because I'm more comfortable feeling the corners since the controls are digital. It's part of the reason why I can't get used to analog controls for digital inputs. Also you have to compensate for the added throw distance in many cases.
@@neondagger Left and right movement with a standard restrictor is noticeably limited though. As for corners, that's what the octagonal restrictors can help with. They still have the latch at those corners you can tap into. It's absolutely the first thing I would point out to anyone wanting a stick specifically for shmups. This was doing my noodle in until I realized that you can in fact change the rstrictors. Suddenly they felt like the sticks I used to play on in arcades back in my youth. Having said that, if you are actually used to a square restrictor, then this may be an issue, certainly.
I feel you in this vid, and had that same gold actuator mod, sad it did not work, great video, I've kind of felt between ls-32 and 40, but mainly for fighting games. Starting to get into shmups gradually, and I think ls-40 for fighting games can make you more precise and force you to be more efficient, I find myself just being that little bit better in 3rd strike online with a 40 and it helps with Kof where the circular motions are multiple circular and also far less lenient than capcom games, of course its the neo geo stick and so is the 32 for older cabs, but I think, perhaps with shmups, like the jiggle wiggle etc, when you need to make those micro decisions, perhaps the ls-40 will allow you to be quicker, But as the ls-32 has more of that dead zone, you can essentially change your decision quicker and not have to go through with it, so it might sound ironic, but you actually have more control in a sense because you can change your decisions in mid motion, I suppose and not have to commit to your first instinct if you see what I mean? I feel like that is more of a consideration for shmups than fighting because you don't wiggle in fighting but yeah v v interesting video, I had been wondering about things that you discussed in your findings and I've wondered about an ls-56, but I feel like getting a short throw mod for a 56, is perhaps negated by just getting a 40. I used to mod jlf, when I first started sticks, I even have the OTTO V2, with the buttercade spring delete mod. Now actually as I write this.. Hmm I wonder what people would think of this? Either a Korean stick for ahmups? Or a Otto V2 with spring delete mod for ahmups? I wonder if the rubber tension is the optimal kind of setting for those jiggle moves???
Yes the looseness in the 32 allows for those quick changes of decision, and also if you're playing tense you are less likely to accidentally smash into a bullet. There are trade-offs whichever you choose to go with. I still haven't really tried the 40 out too much for anything other than shmups, but I wouldn't be surprised if I could adapt to fighting games just as well as I have to shmups. As for other lever choices, I don't know much about Korean levers. They seem a bit odd on paper to me, to be honest. I've never tried one, but the idea of rubber tension just seems like it wouldn't be something I would like? I would love to try one out though. Some people do swear by them for shups. Mark over at Electric Underground uses it for his main shmup joystick. If you search his channel for that video it might give you some good tips. Thanks for your thoughtful post!
@@neondagger you too, I do think that the OTTO V2 with Buttercade spring delete, could be a good option for shmup, or even a full Korean one like the person you've referenced there as long as the rubber grommet isn't too strong and is the right tension to hit the switches and allow for fast relaxed movement, I think with a rubber grommet the tension builds slightly the further you push where's as just a spring is maybe more consistent tension from start to finish so a Korean or Korean hybrid with soft tension, but also this means there is minimal shaft spin as well., the Hybrid v2 with spring delete has barely any shaft spinx but some full Korean sticks have non at all. For some people that's a big thing not for me personally, just one variable that some may consider. I always come back to the thought of, if you go to an arcade, in Japan or anywhere with JP machines and you were gonna play a shmup, chances are it will just be a stock ls-32, 40 or in some places a 56 anyway, and always with a square gate, Looking forward tk your next videos! 👍🏻
@@neondagger also I would say that if you try doing Parries in 3rd strike or Just Defends in mark of the wolves, I noticed I was definitely able to pull these off a bit more consistently with the ls-40, I think of you try it with those games or maybe use the parry training mode with the ls-40 you will notice too, dashing as well
@@Ozyrus Ah yes, dashing should definitely be better. I remember having issues playing Street Fighter IV/V on Sanwa JLF and flubbing my dashes if I was too tense due to the slow return to neutral. A fast neutral return/close engage would definitely make that better. Yes the 32/40/56 is kind of a holy trinity that will absolutely give great results. I think it comes more down to each individual finding & tweaking the exact sweetspot for their particular mechanics.
Standard arcade joysticks are flawed, to the point that there isn't really very much we can do to reduce travel. The tightest travel stick I have is a 40 year old 1 button stick called The Arcade. It doesn't use the standard shaft and nazi switch layout, it uses smaller switched mounted flat on a board, and a disc to actuate the switches. The travel distance is about 14mm and solid as hell. Personally I wish we'd see different mechanisms, and better mechanisms for joysticks in future. Lets face it, there's no modern joysticks that have ideal feel and travel.
You probably wanna try the LS-62. I haven’t tried it yet but I bought one cause I was looking for a stick with short throw, shorter shaft with octogate. It’s 8mm shorter than the 56 apparently. People seem to like it anyway. Good reviews on focusattack, etc. Edit: Ah you know about it already.
Just cos my comment was a bit long,I've put the end of it here, I wonder what shmups peeps think of using a Korean lever? Or an OTTO V2 with Buttercade spring delete mod? Or even just using a bat top tbh for ahmups? Could be interesting using a rubber grommet especially for shmups movement and jiggle or wiggle movements, instead of a spring
I've modded a PS Venom with an LS40 but screwed it directly to the base without a plate as it already had mounting holes to do this. I've also swapped out the microswitchs for Cherry ones which are a lot more responsive and only require a cutting off a little plastic to fit. I've stretched the stock spring for more tension which helps with keeping my movements tight as the stock circular gate is just a bit wide too ride. I wish there was a option to put a tighter octagonal gate in. For shpums it's the way to go but I have to be on a good day to play Thrid Strike. I'm curious about the LS-56 and especially the LS-62.
How responsive could I make emulation on a rasberry pi4? I love the responsive feeling in old hardware with a CRT. Is a mini pc build a better idea perhaps? With a low latency monitor and optimized low lag emulation settings. Close to 1 frame input lag is my dream with mentioned setup 😀👌
If you can Retroarch on raspberry pi then at least in a lot of cases you can achieve better latency than original hardware using the runahead feature. Most games are between 2-3 frames of lag on original hardware and you can get it down to 1-2 in most cases. If you're outputing to an LCD then you can get as low as 5-10ms with a good monitor (I use the VG27A, which gets 5ms lag when running 120hz), and your arcade stick will likely have about the same amount of lag so you're back to 2-3 frames of lag total, which is just like original hardware. So definitely you can get a setup close to what you're looking for. Hope that helps!
@@neondagger Thank you for your in depth response! I find myself in a new jungle of excitement, I'll get a pi4 (8gb of ram is the best one so why not, 4gb is probably enough though) and I know its overclockable with added heatsink and fan to maximize its potential. I already have many good lcds, one that's 240hz but I'm going to research input latency specifically not only hz on lcds. Then I stumbled upon hardware emulation in the form of "MISTer" such a cool little machine, more complex and expensive but I'll get one of those eventually for the "end game" all in one retro experience.
As I understand it oleds have way less input lag at the same hz as lcds. So let's say a 24-27" oled display that's physically able to twist to vertical mode for shmups and is light and portable. Then I can make 2 arcade sticks, pi4, oled and make it a portable package that I cant only play myself but bring to family and friends. I'm so looking forward to this
Noice you grip is just like mine between the pinky. I actually like the Ls-56 but then again i use for Fightinggames big fan of Ls-32 as well. Excuse me (Hrap EX SE)because this is the Xbox pc version (Hrap ex) is the black case one that doesn't come with seimitsu parts. Might get a white body EX SE like the one shown here soon great case on this hori stick from previous generation i might add.
Yes I think I defaulted to the "wineglass" grip from watching Daigo "The Beast" Umehara. And I would be shocked if there is a mediocre Seimitsu stick in existence. They're all built really well.
Where will i find the old switches ls40? Is it specified in some way or will i have to find stores with pictures and try to zoom in and compare the switch connections with the one in this video? And whats the main difference/downside with the new switches in the newer Siemitsu levers?
Great video. I have 4 modded sticks currently and my favorite one is the LS62 Seimitsu in a Hori Rap4 base with sanwa buttons. The height is probably way below your sweet spot but love the feel of a lower stick. I find it really excels at shooters and platformers. For fighting games or games with really spastic and fast dodging (Gun.Smoke arcade), I might go with the Hayabusa stick or sometimes the JLW. I have a modded Qanba drone with a JLW stick, but I use a weaker spring and short cocktail shaft, find I really like that one specifically for beat em ups. I find myself switching all the time, but for most shooters the ability to make precise micro movements with the LS62, feels extremely responsive and tight with almost no deadzone. It does have a very slight wobble but feels great. You said removing the shaft cover might be problematic? Is that true with the JLW and Seimitsu LS62 as well? I only have shaft covers on 2 out of 4 sticks. I cant say I noticed a difference in feel, but each one is a little different. I havent tried other Seimitsu sticks yet so the LS40 sounds interesting with no deadzone, though might be higher than I would prefer. SHMUP MAME lets you set fire rate for turbo, but if youre not using that, some older shooters can be unplayable without the right turbo fire rate. Atleast playing checkpoint to checkpoint. I ran into an issue with Zero Wing for arcade where I needed a 30 mz fire rate to beat the final checkpoint. It otherwise seems impossible with how the final boss works. My hori rap4 had a 24 hz fire rate but none of my other controllers were fast enough, including the hori. I used a 16 dollar retroflag genesis style pad, and that allowed me to beat the final boss. Something to consider when choosing a base to mount the sticks in. Not so much an issue with games that have auto built into the design, like alot of bullet hells. Also really like those rubber balltops. Really stays in my hand.
Yes I still go back and forth. I have one LS40 which with its short throw/small deadzone is great for shmups. But when I play fighting games, action or beat-em-up I'll tend to bring out my Sanwa JLF. For the shaft covers, it's just because of my grip style (wineglass) where the shaft is between the ring/pinky finger. I actually get a lot of control by keeping that as tight as possible so a shaft cover actually does reduce my control considerably. But with a different grip style it's not an issue at all.
Ah, ok I see. I was thinking not having a shaft was causing a mechanical issue. My grip is a little different so I see your point. Nice. Yea for fighting games I like a little looser stick. When its too tight I end up jumping when I dont want to. Great breakdown. Appreciate the reply. @@neondagger
Thanks for the input. I've tried different mods on Sanwa. But in my experience there's no real way to get the Sanwa to perform like a Seimitsu or similar but there have been attempts to get it closer. Notably, there is the Kowal actuator mod which reduces the activation distance, and I used a short hori shaft in one of my Sanwa installs which did help reduce the throw. But overall I found the kowal mod clunky feeling and just overall it didn't have the feel or performance I was going for. By the way if you rotate the restrictor it will turn it into a 4-way stick. And I find that spring tension should be as light as possible while maintaining a tight engage/neutral return as otherwise it's very hard to do consistent hairline movements on the stick.
@@neondaggerThere actually is a way to make the Sanwa perform like a seimitsu. The Otto DIY V1 kit. In fact I am pretty sure that is the whole point of it in the same way the V2 was designed to emulate korean levers. Honestly you should try it out, as based on the video I think my JLF with the V1 might have actually have a shorter throw than your LS-40. Plus the Otto kits are known for being super high quality with teflon pivots and what not. Despite the Otto kits being quite popular, nobody really seems to talk about the V1. But at least to me, it seems like it like would be perfect for shmups. Although I am not nearly as good at shmups as you, so I can only speculate. Either way, if you ever get the urge to try something new, I think an otto v1 should be at the top of your list. And hopefully you make a video about it, because I would love to hear your thoughts.
I have always wanted a larger shaft ;) Can you recommend a modder that builds great sticks at this level? - I want to use it on MISTer with the lowest lag possible.
;) good question about builders. Not really sure but someone could probably give you some good advice at the electricunderground reddit. As for the lowest lag, it's going to be hard to beat retroarch/shmuparch + CRT. Retroarch can in many cases give you lower than original hardware levels of lag. I use Retroarch + LCD( < 1 frame lag) and the result is still lower than original hardware in most cases. But the ultimate setup for low lag AND arcade perfect emulation is probably: MISTer + CRT + low latency stick PCB. Believe it or not a lot of stick PCBs can add a frame or two of lag. I should probably make a video on this!
Never tried it but some players prefer it. Mark at ElectricUnderground has a custom Korean lever he plays with and talks about it and why he prefers it in one of his videos.
Awesome video. Just a beginner here with a stupid question: were most shmup arcade sticks using a circular gate or an octagonal restrictor plate? Most advice on modding arcade sticks is for fighting games. Thanks!
That's a good question. I'm guessing most were square gate simply because that's the default in Japan. But in North American arcades it was probably octagonal. For me personally I go for square because its a shorter distance to move (throw) and I like the feel of hitting corners. You may have to try both to see which you prefer.
I never really found a convenient way to tate the monitor (which I otherwise really like). So all of my runs are on this kind of small screen when compared to most setups.
might as well get a korean stick , there are faster more accurate sticks out there for tekken over the korean stick . But they are old ancient and hard to ever find
I need a bit of help. So my older Qanba wooden arcade stick has a metal panel with 4 holes to mount directly to the body of the LS-32 but it sits way too high at 27mm. Is there a standard height from top panel of my arcade stick to the top of shaft (right below the balltop)? If im listening right to your video it should be 22mm?
Yes the standard height is 22mm with the SS plate, which pushes the stick up due to the S-shaped plate. While the flat SE plate would give a height of 17.5mm. 27mm sounds extremely high, but if you can use the SE plate instead you can bring it down to 22.5mm, which should be much much better!
I go with square gate across the board. It's all I've ever used so I'm not sure what octagonal brings to the table. I undertand why you would want to feel heavy restriction in the corners, but not sure I'd like feeling the restriction as I'm moving in single directions. Seems like it would be annoying but I've never tried it. Might just come down to personal preference/feel.
My son has to play on a arcadestick for accessibility reasons. I bought him a nacon dijah..the switches came messed up. Double inputs ect.. i bought a new board and switches from paradise arcade..it was a cheap Chinese knockoff. The green on the board is even peeling off..got any idea where i can buy some real products. Im thinking about getting a new stick or just replace the switches and board in the jlf i have..really could use some help because i dont trust any site after i got screwed over..
I can't remember where I got this one from exactly. I've mostly ordered from FocusAttack and Paradise. I normally go with FA unless there's a stock shortage, as historically they are quite connected in the fighting game community and seem to take their reputation seriously, are quite active on social, etc. Hope that helps and good luck!
@@neondagger thanks ill try fa, I might of just got unlucky and I got the one bad one that slipped through or something because I hear nothing but good things about them. Thanks again.
The controller is the Hori Real Arcade Pro EX-SE which originally came out for Xbox360. The monitor was Asus VX238H, which was good because it had almost no input lag and no motion blur. But a bit on the small side. So now I have the Asus VG27AQ, which is even better.
They're Seimitsu on this stick I'm using here. I really like them, though I guess I prefer Sanwa's for fighting games as they're a bit more "tappy/clacky" feeling.
Yes in my opinion the 32 is ideal if you play fighting games and shmups and want an all-purpose stick that is very good for both. I talk about this a bit near the end of the video.
@@neondagger thanks! Do you happen to know how different these korean sticks feel vs IL Eurosticks? I'm trying to go for a retro aethstetics feel for my mame cabinet unless the korean sticks feel insanely better than the old American style ones.
personally i would recommend IL arcade buttons because they are much sturdier than Sanwa or Seimitsu buttons, but if you don't have a arcade stick that doesn't fit IL or HAPP buttons, go with seimisu ps-14 GNs ps-15s or alutimos
It's hard to recommend a stick. I'd say SF2CE is pretty strict on inputs. You have to be more precise than with most fighting games. I think the 56 (which is similar to the 40) would take some getting used to, but would give maybe a bit more precision. But honestly if it were me I would go with the LS-32, or even the Sanwa JLF for the early Street Fighter games. Hope that helps.
is it supposed to be so loose and deflection-heavy? Had to use zippy ls32 copy spring, which isnt a good one either, so finding a harder and compatible spring would be better if they exist at all
You mean LS32? Yes it's just designed that way. I'm sure there are heavier springs for the 32, but I'm not positive it would help much. It's more about the distance between engage and actuator. Also a stiff spring needs more force so you could overshoot more easily. Maybe check out the sticks I talked about in the video. It was well worth it for me. Good luck!
@@neondagger I meant ls40, I was aware that these two arent supposed to be very strong, but bouncing happens too often as if something was wrong with default spring. I wanted to get ls56, but lots of things are impossible to get here, heavy seimitsu sticks are one of them.
@@veresdon4732 I'm not sure why you're experiencing bouncing. I tested out deflection at 7:35 and there wasn't any. After that you can see the LS-32 had quite a bit by comparison.
@@neondagger JLF with mods arrived, my ls40 is just as loose as stock jlf, probably even worse. I wanted to say what opinion I already got on community while trying to get into sticks, but I think I shouldnt.
Haha yes! I think they became popular mainly because they helped prevent people stealing balltops at Japanese arcades. Which apparently became enough of a problem. Functionally though, they've just gotten in the way for me.
I hate slipperyness and probably wash my hands way too much. If you look closely you'll see cracks in the translucent ball top on the LS32. Apparently that's what happens when you try to clean it with rubbing alcohol. Never thought about it, but I guess I'm a crack-handed cleanfreak sonofabitch!
@@neondagger LOL I had no idea that happens when you use alcohol! GOTTA MOISTURIZE FOR THAT DRY AND COLD WEATHER! Well it gets hella frigid up in North Dakota, and I don't want those cracks on your palm to split deep D:
In addition to Neo Geo cabinets in Japan the LS-40 was also really often found on Namco Excelina, Taito Egret II and others.
At arcades specialized in shumps in Japan the LS-32, LS-40 and JLF were all used pretty equally but still in that order.
That's really interesting. I wonder what the LS-56 was originally designed for? The LS32/40 seem to be a natural progression, with the 32 being a bit nearer to the JLF (but IMO a tighter and just better all-around stick). The 56 kind of looks on paper like it was designed to accomodate larger hands. Maybe it was meant for an overseas market? Maybe that's why it's more popular in the west?
@@neondagger The LS-56 is a part of the LS-33 family. It was designed for arcade machines with narrow panels where full size arcade sticks didn't fit, so it's a part of their compact lineup.
That's why the LS-56 isn't found in the arcades often because most cabinets had space for full size sticks.
The LS-33 has been discontinued for years but all the compact models: LS-55,56,58,60,62 sticks use the LS-33 PCB.
The LS-56 gained popularity when arcade sticks became popular at home and because it's well tuned for all kinds of games.
I don't know why the shaft is higher but i'm guessing the most common arcade cabinets with narrower panels it was designed for that determined the height.
A taller shaft fits general arcade use really well, depending on the users grip and preference of course but i think most players just adapted to whatever stick the cabinet had and it wasn't specifically designed for shooters.
Where i think the LS-56 and all other compact models fall short is the lighter shaft combined with a tiny actuator and switches with shorter levers.
Because of the shorter levers the switches are a lot more clickier and have a more of an on/off feel and i feel a little less precision personally because of those.
Of course there are a ton of people that swear it's the best joystick for everything and i won't argue their opinion because everyone experiences joysticks a little differently depending on their preference and how they grip it and use it.
@@neondagger Also the LS-56 is popular in the American market because it has an octagon gate and most US made cabinets had octagon gates i think.
And because so many youtubers and joystick modders swap an octagon gate on the JLF and LS-56 as their first mod and they tell everyone to do the same because why have a "4 way" guide like in a square gate when you can have an "8 way" with an octagon gate.
They miss the whole purpose of a square gate because it's square only because it's whole function is to stop the movement past the activation point and all Japanese sticks are made to be used with a good level of precision and the idea is to use the switches to input directions and not the gate. An octagon also greates notches and limit much of the space that could be used for free movement.
So there's a good reason why like 99.9% of Japanese joysticks have come with a square gate as default for the last 40+ years and most models don't even offer an octagon gate :)
Just mentioned it because i think that is why when people move from a JLF to a Seimitsu their first choice is often the LS-56 because it also has an octagon gate and is kind of similar but with a shorter throw.
@@epicon6 Very true about personal taste. Wow I'm learning so much. I've found it actually fairly difficult to get reliable information on these sticks but you obviously know your stuff. I always wondered why the 56 looked like it was almost "missing" parts there. Makes sense it's because it has the compact design.
@@epicon6 Yes people are probably relying on the octo-gate and riding it to pull of quarter circles and such in fighting games. With shmups when I'm doing ultra-fine movements I'm not even close to hitting the gate. Just brushing the switches a bit.
As someone who doesn't play shmups, I found the commentary on these sticks' precision from a shmup player standpoint very informative
Just found the video and its super interesting, I wonder how the shmup community thinks about hitboxes and other button box devices
As a shmup player, I can give you some insight. From what I heard from the shmups system 11, forum they prefer ls-32s but there are a few players who do like hitbox controllers for shmups
Just watching the side clips there of your playing, that is some serious talent there, incredible!!
Oh awesome yes this is the style of stick for the super players I ve noticed as well I also posted this on the reddit for you :-)
Thanks so much I really appreciate that (I subbed to the channel just now)! And yeah I really haven't looked at the superplayer's setups, but that's really interesting to know. I'm pretty in the dark with what's going on in Japan. If I had known that fact, I probably would have tried it out sooner. I know LS32/LS56 get a lot of attention. So much so that I barely heard about the LS40 until I really looked into it this year.
One of the few videos on RUclips I can find properly discussing the LS-40 at all. Everybody on this site hypes up the flimsy Sanwa LJS and clones, but I wanna build a personal arcade stick that'll last me the next 10 years, and you can just tell on sight that the JLS just isn't built to last.
I've had sanwas for decades with heavy use on fgc and shmups. And they are still going.
I really appreciate all the insights and thoughts you're sharing here, as well as the excellent gameplay. I'm recognizing a lot of the levels shown in the footage, and getting anxious, because you're dancing through patterns that have ended my game hundreds of times as though it were a leisurely stroll through the garden. Admittedly, I'm very low skill, even with piles of practice. But, that doesn't mean I'm not having fun. Much of your thinking around the point where you're talking about your wiggle dodging was very illuminating for me, and I think it's giving me insight into some of the mistakes I consistently make while playing shmups. Thanks very much.
Oh, and as for how this stick works with other games: How does it perform in Animal Crossing?
Oh make no mistake I struggled with shmups for quite a while, and eventually got better. It's a normal learning curve that you're on. And even here I'm doing training runs, specifically to test out my dodging on the stick. In actual serious runs I would try to play less risky. But more importantly the pressure would be on, so dancing through bullets won't be quite as consistent when nerves are in play.
But overall feeling confident on the stick is mostly an accumulation of all of these techniques and knowing how and when to use them. The "wiggle" is definitely a key element for me, which people don't often talk about. Glad you got some insight out of it. As for Animal Crossing, I would probably use the menu system for training if anything at all ;)
Excellent video. I agree with pretty much everything except i like both LS-32 and LS-40 stick heights without any mods.
I recommend getting a new Omron switch LS-32 because the deadzone and wobble is reduced because the switches are bent and the activation point is remains about the same but a hair closer than on the original, so the Omron switch LS-32 might be the perfect update for your use.
I like the Omron switches better on the LS-32 than the older Matsushita/Panasonic switches because of the improved deadzone and the switches give more feel and feedback and give a better audible higher quality click sound.
Also at around late 2020/ early 2021 Seimitsu updated the LS-32 base to higher quality with much higher precision manufacturing and improved the shape of the grease traps that help retain the grease for longer.
Don't believe Omron haters before you try one and see for yourself that they improve the LS-32.
To me the Matsushita switch LS-40 and the Omron LS-32 are both perfect shmup and general use sticks and i'm glad they are both so great because it would be bad news if there was only one "perfect" joystick because i could never switch to a slightly different feel when i feel like it.
Great info! I was happy to get the same microswitches as my previous LS-32 only because I knew I liked them. But what you're saying makes sense. I still use my LS-32 and this is definitely something I'll try to improve its deadzone (which looked kind of shocking to me in the video when compared to the LS40).
@@neondagger I also have an LS-32 with the old switches and i really like them too and it's always great to be able to experience the same classic feel as in the 90's arcades but i'm also glad to have the Omron switch LS-32 that reduced the deadzone.
3:26 I have used the Omron updated switches on the LS-32 for about 500 hours and i have used the Omron LS-40 switches on the LSX-Nobi-Pro and STD sticks over 1000 hours and in my opinion they are much better than the classic Panasonic/Matsushita switches, especially because they create a smaller and better controlled deadzone on the LS-32.
I think the complaints were just about having to get used to something different.
I also love the classic switches and i have ten LS-40 with the classic switches and three LS-32 and 16 extra matsushita switches for them because i hoarded them when i heard they were no longer made.
If you need a replacement classic switches some day and can't find them anywhere i can propably send you a set of 4.
I'm inclined to think you are right. People do get pretty fussy about what they're used to. Which I can understand. I think I would like to try out those newer switches one day. I'll keep it and mind and thanks for the offer!
@@neondaggerOne of my favorite new sticks for shmups is the silent LSQ-40. I know it's weird because it's a silent stick but it's that good!! It also has straight levers and a larger actuator. And the shaft is a heavier (LS-32 thick from pivot up, LS-40 thick from pivot down) metal shaft without a shaft cover. I think the heavier shaft gives it better control and a higher quality feel and the shaft is 1-2mm taller than an LS-40 shaft.
The silent switches are incredibly good and kind of feels like they give more feedback than regular switches.
You can also swap a classic LS-40 PCB to it, and then also remember to use the classic LS-40 actuator. And the original shaft can be used on it too of course.
It has a different guide that is helpful when the silent switches are installed. It's the same guide that's on the LSX-Nobi-STD but a pure square gate can be used as well.
The classic guide works with the silent switches and of course with the classic PCB and the Omron updated PCB needs the updated guide or the classic gate needs to be dremeled around the new soldering points.
And i forgot to mention it has a tighter spring to compensate for the heavier shaft and making it a great all arounder for all kinds of games. It's the right amount tighter for a tighter spring option but noticeably lighter than the LS-38 spring.
I recommend it because it opens up the LS-40 to a lot of new possibilities.
(Edit: i was wrong about the Omron updated PCBs). I actually measured the bent switches on the updated LS-40 and it turned out the differences were in my head because along the wall of the gate all corners activate at exactly 2.5mm from the center of the wall, (both to the direction of the bent side and the root side along all 4 walls). I measured the classic LS-40 pcb corners activating at 2.55mm.
I measured them with the Nobi hexagon gate so i could measure the exact middle of the wall of the gate and measured tons of times with exactly same results, so they should be accurate to about 0.25mm which wouldn't make a difference.
By the time I got my Seimitsu LS-32 and LS-40, the Omron switches had replaced the Panasonic switches. Since I never knew how the original Panasonic switches felt I couldn't make any judgments based on that. To me the Omron switches felt fine and I have no issues with either joystick. I vastly prefer the Seimitsu sticks over the Sanwa JLF any day of the week. I'm currently using the LS-40 for All classic arcade genres, but predominantly for fighting games. You do have to be a little bit more careful with the inputs, but it's nowhere near as prone to misinputs as people say it is in my honest opinion. So long as you're playing with intention and you're not jerking the joystick around like a madman you won't get too many misinputs. The only time I noticed I do a misinput is when trying to do a command grab in KOF with Iori, which is a 632146 input, or a hcb f input. Sometimes when I'm doing it really quickly I wind up getting an up input sometime along the way,but if I just adjust my fingers then I can avoid that.
Have you stumbled upon the Kowal throw adapters? They are plates that screw easily into the assembly of any stick (selected at purchase) and drastically shorten the throw to subtract actuation time. I use an octagonal gate on a Special Edition Seimitsu lever which comes with several springs. I use two Kowal adapters stacked which easily actuates exactly as I move without feeling too tight or boxed in. I get a nice click with the micro switches without any noticeable dead zone, yet it doesn’t feel too tight. It works remarkably well for grazing.
Throw adapters shouldn't change the activation, since that's determined by the distance between the actuator and the microswitch. For that mod you would need a Kowal oversize actuator. I've tried one for one of my JLF sticks, and I didn't like it because it felt kind of clunky. Hard to describe. And I went into trying out a Seimitsu one in a different video that didn't turn out so great.
As for throw distance, I'm fairly particular about it. I talk about it a bit in this video, where I did the height mod to make a shorter shaft, which does reduce the throw distance. So finding a sweetspot with shaft height and the kowal throw mod both seem like good ideas to me. But I can't vouch for actuator mods since I've had no luck with them so far. Hope that helps!
Fantastic video 😀👌
4:12 i would remove the blue ls-32 sub guide and the yellow ls-40 sub guide from the sticks because they make opposite corners uneven and they are not designed to give better performance. They are there so that arcade owners can keep the sub guides on the sticks in case they some day need to convert the cabinet to 2 way or 4 way games without having to look where the sub guides are stored, but for square gate use they are only in the way.
I even cut two sub guides in half and combined both halfs to see if either of the combined versions with even opposite sides would do something but the other one literally does nothing and the other one creates a step in the corners that's only in the way.
The gate was one thing I forgot to talk about. Yes I did find the corners to be a little more "circular" or as you say a step in the middle... not as "locked in" because of the sub-gate. I think I took it off and tried it and felt like it increased the throw. To be honest with you I did so many little adjustments that I was almost driving myself nuts at one point so I had to really pick my battles. And that was one that wasn't too big of a deal to me. For fighting games I like to have a nice square corner (for croach-blocking, charging, etc) but I don't notice it nearly as much when playing shmups. But it is noticeable. I will try it out again soon to make sure it didn't mess with the throw at all.
I'm about to rebuild my Hrap 3 with an LS-62-01 which I picked for a lot of the attributes you've described in the video. Shorter through primarily. Also going to try it with a stiffer spring as well just to see how I like it. Hrap 3 is my fav case design and the one I always come back to. It's currently all Sanwa but I recently sold a Saturn stick that I had kitted out fully Seimitsu / LS-56 and I miss it. The Hrap needs to be brought back to life with all Seimitsu!
Edit: LS-62, no shaft cover either. Can't wait to try it. Shaft covers are not for me.
At first I was torn between the 62 and 40. Got great advice from different people on both. I actually don't completely remember why I chose the 40 over the 62, other than that the 40 is most closely designed off of the 32 (which I'm familiar with) whereas the 62 is closer designed off of the 56 (which I'm not familiar with). That and I think the 62 has an octo-gate which I wasnt sure how to convert to a square. But yeah the shaft looks good and the height/throw/engage look great. I think you'll really like it, but the shorter movements might take a bit getting used to at first if you're used to a taller shaft/longer throw. Let me know how it goes once you've tried it out for a bit!
@@neondagger I can't wait to try it out. I'm fully trash at SHMUPs (it's a curse to be so bad at something you love) so I don't think things can get much worse for me.
I have some LS 32s kicking around as well as spare gates to try out just in case.
Love these types of vids btw, I'll be looking out for what's next!
You must try LS-56 it´s very accuracy stick and not is not sensitive as LS-40 for me it´s great, but i like magstick for Industrias Lorenzo that is the champion sticks and perfect acuracy@@neondagger
Dont but LS-62 buy again LS-56 i have my LS-56-01 with kowal short Throw mod as is near short like Magstick I.L withouth less tension spring, i think that LS-40 is not good because for me can i play with a very weak spring, i like spring like I.L magnetic that are Sanwa jlf
This was an interesting video. I've been trying to decide between the LS-32 and LS-40 as my first Seimitsu lever, and while I'm not sure this video helped me reach a conclusion, I definitely know more about each than I did before. I think the "precision" of the lever is an interesting topic. I also play FPS trainers and tend to think of precision as a combination of speed and accuracy. In that sense, I might be LESS precise with the LS-40, because of the potential incorrect inputs.
I remember when I first got the 32 (coming from Sanwa JLF) it immediately felt better. That's because what I compared it to was so imprecise, but also it didnt have any major glaring issues right away. The 40 was odd because right away 60% of my play improved, but then 40% went backwards. So it just took a bit of time to get that 40% back to where it ought to be. I'm happy with that choice but the 32 is the only one I can recommend across the board. If you're as persistent as I am then maybe the 40 is a better start? Not sure, but hope that helps and good luck!
@@neondagger I think I'm going to wind up buying both and putting one in my vpin table. I wasn't planning on it, but it's just impossible to really make an informed decision without trying them both.
@@griftgfx I agree. I wish I had done that a long time ago. I'll probably buy up some extra sticks sooner than later as eventually these things will be rare and harder to come by in their current form. Even now you might have a bit of challenge getting the 32/40 with the original (often preferred) microswitches (which I mentioned how to source in the video). Let me know how it ends up!
@@neondagger Decided to build out an AFS stick with an LS-32 (I ordered a steel pivot too), but I'm also getting an LS-56 to stick in my portable 8bitdo stick, and I plan to get an LS-40 to try in my current daily driver (which is a hayabusa right now). I mostly play fighting games (and a lot of random arcade games more casually), but I'm getting more into other genres and also using stick for 2D games that I'd use d-pad for in in the past. For someone whose exposure to Japanese levers has mostly been various mods of the JLF, I'm excited to try some new joysticks. I already have various button controllers and a happ/IL stick, so hopefully the only thing left to try after this are some k-levers :D
Just discovered this channel. Great stuff! Subbed!
Awesome, thanks for the kind words and for the sub!
Heya! I dunno man, as long as the joystick isn’t over terrible I don’t think it’s makes a significant difference to drastically alter your gameplay. I’ve been using a stock JLF since 2000 at home and later in my cab and even though I prefer it to an LS32 because I like a lighter stick, I don’t think it drastically improves your skill. I think a good understanding of the games nuances, identifying the bullets properties, creative strategies and accurate execution outweighs the subtle differences in the feel of a JLF/LS32/40 to make a significant game-changing impact, imo.
I think it depends on an individuals strengths, weaknesses and style of play. Some do much better with anticipation, memory and game knowledge, while others might rely more on precise movements and reaction time. And it can be a spectrum encompassing all of that. For those who require precision, a better performing stick will definitely improve their game. That was definitely in my case. I had reached a bit of a plateau and wasn't improving much on the LS32 after almost 10 years until I switched to LS40. It's like anything performance-related in any sport or activity. Usually its only noticeable to those who can exploit the benefits, and that will depend a lot on their approach/style/ability.
Awesome video. I have a 40 and found the spring tension to be too heavy, but now I’ll have to revisit it for shmups
The LS40 I believe has the same spring as the LS32, which is considered on the lighter side of the tension scale. What you might be experiencing is that since the lever is closer to the engage buttons, it feels like more tension because it doesn't travel as far only on spring tension. So basically you have less momentum to hit the buttons and makes it feel more stiff. I felt that too. It was a real challenge to go as light as I like to on it and engage the buttons with minimal input (for micro dodging, as an example). But eventually it got really good and precise for me. My suggestion is to try working on doing really small quarter circles and half circles, and diagonaldown inputs to do micro dodging. Try to go really light and practice that. Thanks for the comment, and good luck!
You might like that extra spring tension for shooters. While I havent used other Seimitsu sticks, the LS62 has a much heavier spring than my JLW and Hayabusa sticks and I found it awesome for shooters since you can really make precise micro movements, click by click. You may just need to adjust to the change.
Nice vid. In my opinion for 99% of people the best stick will simply be the one they find most comfortable, because ultimately success will correlate more with you enjoying yourself and being willing to continue to play over and over again. Some of the best results Ive ever gotten in both shmups and fighting games have been with an old Mayflash universal, for the simple fact that I put in hundreds of hours with that stick and it shaped my muscle memory on a deep level.
This is definitely true on an important level. And generally speaking I would be right there with you. But in this case this stick definitely wasn't the most comfortable thing out of the box for me. And I tried to get across (with rather bad analogies) how sometimes the things that aren't the most comfortable right away are what you need to expose your weaknesses and move beyond them. That was definitely the case for me here. In fact getting better on the LS40 made me even better with the LS32, which I had otherwise plateaued with skill-wise for quite some time. It just made me play a lot more carefully, which was a pain and took effort that maybe many people wouldn't be willing to put in. It's all very dependent on lots of factors. For me it comes down to whether or not you are happy with what you're using, that it's not holding you back. I felt like the 32 was holding me back and I wish I gave this a try earlier. But I will say that during this time of adjusting to the 40, shmups weren't very fun for me. It felt like more work than fun. You don't want to get so neurotic that everything stops being fun entirely. Tricky tightrope to walk!
I know this is old, but I did just get the Seimitsu NOBI Bullet PRO.. it has a super tight gate and is a dream for SHMUPS. The lever is typically used for Tekken pros
Try a JLW. I installed one in my HRAP2 and I love it.
Watching you play the game is stressing me the hell out. I didnt even to a word you were saying.
Seimitsu is making everyone a Schmuck for buying complete joystick as models where other hobbies sell adjustability in modding. They could have a base model with variable spring tension, shaft length, actuator & gate pairs, gate shape, pivot design, etc Most part it is you not adjusting to the joystick function and what becomes your familiarity to use. Adjustable activation force, travel distance, smoothness, and return speed all give a feel but overall may not change much other than what you've preseen.
I play on a MAS Happ optical perfect 360. Got that joystick 20 years ago and never found anything better.
I have an ls-40 and I love it but I prefer the ls-56 for shmups and fighting. Even on the site says medium engage, for me is shorter than 40. The throw says medium but for me is only a little bit more than 40. On the site says sanwa is medium too, but for me is everything long. So at the end its a matter of tastes. And for me the 56 with octogate is my overall best joystick.
Interesting! Do you know if your 56 is mounted lower or higher (S plates typically mount higher, while flat plates mount a bit lower which shortens the shaft)? I found shaft height has the most impact on the feel of the throw. I agree Sanwas always felt like a long throw, but I did once mount a Sanwa with a very short Hori shaft and was surprised that it felt much closer to my standard mounted LS32 in its throw distance. Even panel angle, spring tension and all of these little details can impact the perception of "looseness" and whatnot. Thanks for the great input!
@@neondagger I have a flat plate on both, and the shaft is a little bit larger on the ls56. But for me the engage is shorter and the throw a little bit longer. I bought a kowal mod to shorten the 56's throw, and it works. You can make it way more shorter than the 40. Anyway I don't know yet if a like it this way. For now I like the default config more. And for the spring, I have a special ls56 version wich comes with a soft spring. On this aspect I like more the tension on the 40. It helps with the tightness. I'm thinking of changing the 56's spring to a rigid one. Besides any config, the ls40 is amazing. You can have great results with this stick. I love them and I can play at the same level with both. Btw great gameplays and videos. Try to upload more.
@@superhadouken Thanks for the details! I tried the Kowal throw shortening mod on my Sanwa JLF and I didn't like the feel. It had a squared-off actuators that just kind of felt clunky to me. Like I can feel the actuator hitting the switches and I didn't like it. Not sure if it's the same in your experience. And thanks for the nice words. Pretty sure I will be putting out videos at a higher rate this winter!
@@neondagger I tried that too. It helps to get sanwas better but for me they can't compete with a seimitsu joystick. Sanwa is overrated as hell. I don't like it. The ls-56 mod is not on the actuator. It's a mod to alter the joystick's height that change the throw. Make a quick google search and you will find it. Anyway I like it more on default.
@@superhadouken ah, I got you. Yeah I replaced all of my Sanwa's now except for one stick. It's all Seimitsu for me now until or unless I try something unusual that really blows me away.
I like the Ultrasticks from ultimarc. They are fully programmable, magnetic (no switches), with many options for different shafts, spring, resistors and top. No separate board required as they can control and program up to 8 arcade buttons (15 with the shift function)
Myself, I'm all for the mechanical switches. I love the feel and resistence. And I actually like the clicky sound which helps tell me how much force I'm using. It would be interesting to try one out though!
the ls32 just great lever for arcade and 2D games plus samsuscka crown 390m and diy otto v5
Pac-man players used to use the left-right jiggle to suspend the character in one spot in between ghosts and wait for them to pass.
Really enjoyed this video. Thanks
Glad you found it helpful!
The secret is a circular/octagonal restrictor plate so you can move horizontal/vertical with as much throw (area) as you can sideways. That's it. The rest is personal preference.
Gates are also a matter of preference. I personally have a hard time with circle gates because I'm more comfortable feeling the corners since the controls are digital. It's part of the reason why I can't get used to analog controls for digital inputs. Also you have to compensate for the added throw distance in many cases.
@@neondagger Left and right movement with a standard restrictor is noticeably limited though. As for corners, that's what the octagonal restrictors can help with. They still have the latch at those corners you can tap into. It's absolutely the first thing I would point out to anyone wanting a stick specifically for shmups. This was doing my noodle in until I realized that you can in fact change the rstrictors. Suddenly they felt like the sticks I used to play on in arcades back in my youth. Having said that, if you are actually used to a square restrictor, then this may be an issue, certainly.
I feel you in this vid, and had that same gold actuator mod, sad it did not work, great video, I've kind of felt between ls-32 and 40, but mainly for fighting games.
Starting to get into shmups gradually, and I think ls-40 for fighting games can make you more precise and force you to be more efficient, I find myself just being that little bit better in 3rd strike online with a 40 and it helps with Kof where the circular motions are multiple circular and also far less lenient than capcom games, of course its the neo geo stick and so is the 32 for older cabs, but I think, perhaps with shmups, like the jiggle wiggle etc, when you need to make those micro decisions, perhaps the ls-40 will allow you to be quicker, But as the ls-32 has more of that dead zone, you can essentially change your decision quicker and not have to go through with it, so it might sound ironic, but you actually have more control in a sense because you can change your decisions in mid motion, I suppose and not have to commit to your first instinct if you see what I mean?
I feel like that is more of a consideration for shmups than fighting because you don't wiggle in fighting but yeah v v interesting video, I had been wondering about things that you discussed in your findings and I've wondered about an ls-56, but I feel like getting a short throw mod for a 56, is perhaps negated by just getting a 40.
I used to mod jlf, when I first started sticks, I even have the OTTO V2, with the buttercade spring delete mod. Now actually as I write this..
Hmm I wonder what people would think of this? Either a Korean stick for ahmups? Or a Otto V2 with spring delete mod for ahmups? I wonder if the rubber tension is the optimal kind of setting for those jiggle moves???
Yes the looseness in the 32 allows for those quick changes of decision, and also if you're playing tense you are less likely to accidentally smash into a bullet. There are trade-offs whichever you choose to go with. I still haven't really tried the 40 out too much for anything other than shmups, but I wouldn't be surprised if I could adapt to fighting games just as well as I have to shmups.
As for other lever choices, I don't know much about Korean levers. They seem a bit odd on paper to me, to be honest. I've never tried one, but the idea of rubber tension just seems like it wouldn't be something I would like? I would love to try one out though. Some people do swear by them for shups. Mark over at Electric Underground uses it for his main shmup joystick. If you search his channel for that video it might give you some good tips. Thanks for your thoughtful post!
@@neondagger you too, I do think that the OTTO V2 with Buttercade spring delete, could be a good option for shmup, or even a full Korean one like the person you've referenced there as long as the rubber grommet isn't too strong and is the right tension to hit the switches and allow for fast relaxed movement, I think with a rubber grommet the tension builds slightly the further you push where's as just a spring is maybe more consistent tension from start to finish so a Korean or Korean hybrid with soft tension, but also this means there is minimal shaft spin as well., the Hybrid v2 with spring delete has barely any shaft spinx but some full Korean sticks have non at all. For some people that's a big thing not for me personally, just one variable that some may consider.
I always come back to the thought of, if you go to an arcade, in Japan or anywhere with JP machines and you were gonna play a shmup, chances are it will just be a stock ls-32, 40 or in some places a 56 anyway, and always with a square gate,
Looking forward tk your next videos! 👍🏻
@@neondagger also I would say that if you try doing Parries in 3rd strike or Just Defends in mark of the wolves, I noticed I was definitely able to pull these off a bit more consistently with the ls-40, I think of you try it with those games or maybe use the parry training mode with the ls-40 you will notice too, dashing as well
@@Ozyrus Ah yes, dashing should definitely be better. I remember having issues playing Street Fighter IV/V on Sanwa JLF and flubbing my dashes if I was too tense due to the slow return to neutral. A fast neutral return/close engage would definitely make that better. Yes the 32/40/56 is kind of a holy trinity that will absolutely give great results. I think it comes more down to each individual finding & tweaking the exact sweetspot for their particular mechanics.
Standard arcade joysticks are flawed, to the point that there isn't really very much we can do to reduce travel. The tightest travel stick I have is a 40 year old 1 button stick called The Arcade. It doesn't use the standard shaft and nazi switch layout, it uses smaller switched mounted flat on a board, and a disc to actuate the switches. The travel distance is about 14mm and solid as hell. Personally I wish we'd see different mechanisms, and better mechanisms for joysticks in future. Lets face it, there's no modern joysticks that have ideal feel and travel.
You probably wanna try the LS-62. I haven’t tried it yet but I bought one cause I was looking for a stick with short throw, shorter shaft with octogate. It’s 8mm shorter than the 56 apparently. People seem to like it anyway. Good reviews on focusattack, etc.
Edit: Ah you know about it already.
Yeah Seimitsu has a lot of variants worth checking out. I definitely gave it a close look. I probably passed on it only because I don't use octogates.
Just cos my comment was a bit long,I've put the end of it here, I wonder what shmups peeps think of using a Korean lever? Or an OTTO V2 with Buttercade spring delete mod? Or even just using a bat top tbh for ahmups? Could be interesting using a rubber grommet especially for shmups movement and jiggle or wiggle movements, instead of a spring
I've modded a PS Venom with an LS40 but screwed it directly to the base without a plate as it already had mounting holes to do this. I've also swapped out the microswitchs for Cherry ones which are a lot more responsive and only require a cutting off a little plastic to fit. I've stretched the stock spring for more tension which helps with keeping my movements tight as the stock circular gate is just a bit wide too ride. I wish there was a option to put a tighter octagonal gate in. For shpums it's the way to go but I have to be on a good day to play Thrid Strike. I'm curious about the LS-56 and especially the LS-62.
How responsive could I make emulation on a rasberry pi4? I love the responsive feeling in old hardware with a CRT.
Is a mini pc build a better idea perhaps? With a low latency monitor and optimized low lag emulation settings. Close to 1 frame input lag is my dream with mentioned setup 😀👌
If you can Retroarch on raspberry pi then at least in a lot of cases you can achieve better latency than original hardware using the runahead feature. Most games are between 2-3 frames of lag on original hardware and you can get it down to 1-2 in most cases.
If you're outputing to an LCD then you can get as low as 5-10ms with a good monitor (I use the VG27A, which gets 5ms lag when running 120hz), and your arcade stick will likely have about the same amount of lag so you're back to 2-3 frames of lag total, which is just like original hardware. So definitely you can get a setup close to what you're looking for. Hope that helps!
@@neondagger Thank you for your in depth response! I find myself in a new jungle of excitement, I'll get a pi4 (8gb of ram is the best one so why not, 4gb is probably enough though) and I know its overclockable with added heatsink and fan to maximize its potential. I already have many good lcds, one that's 240hz but I'm going to research input latency specifically not only hz on lcds.
Then I stumbled upon hardware emulation in the form of "MISTer" such a cool little machine, more complex and expensive but I'll get one of those eventually for the "end game" all in one retro experience.
As I understand it oleds have way less input lag at the same hz as lcds. So let's say a 24-27" oled display that's physically able to twist to vertical mode for shmups and is light and portable. Then I can make 2 arcade sticks, pi4, oled and make it a portable package that I cant only play myself but bring to family and friends. I'm so looking forward to this
Noice you grip is just like mine between the pinky. I actually like the Ls-56 but then again i use for Fightinggames big fan of Ls-32 as well.
Excuse me (Hrap EX SE)because this is the Xbox pc version (Hrap ex) is the black case one that doesn't come with seimitsu parts. Might get a white body EX SE like the one shown here soon great case on this hori stick from previous generation i might add.
Yes I think I defaulted to the "wineglass" grip from watching Daigo "The Beast" Umehara. And I would be shocked if there is a mediocre Seimitsu stick in existence. They're all built really well.
Where will i find the old switches ls40? Is it specified in some way or will i have to find stores with pictures and try to zoom in and compare the switch connections with the one in this video?
And whats the main difference/downside with the new switches in the newer Siemitsu levers?
Great video. I have 4 modded sticks currently and my favorite one is the LS62 Seimitsu in a Hori Rap4 base with sanwa buttons. The height is probably way below your sweet spot but love the feel of a lower stick. I find it really excels at shooters and platformers. For fighting games or games with really spastic and fast dodging (Gun.Smoke arcade), I might go with the Hayabusa stick or sometimes the JLW. I have a modded Qanba drone with a JLW stick, but I use a weaker spring and short cocktail shaft, find I really like that one specifically for beat em ups. I find myself switching all the time, but for most shooters the ability to make precise micro movements with the LS62, feels extremely responsive and tight with almost no deadzone. It does have a very slight wobble but feels great. You said removing the shaft cover might be problematic? Is that true with the JLW and Seimitsu LS62 as well? I only have shaft covers on 2 out of 4 sticks. I cant say I noticed a difference in feel, but each one is a little different. I havent tried other Seimitsu sticks yet so the LS40 sounds interesting with no deadzone, though might be higher than I would prefer. SHMUP MAME lets you set fire rate for turbo, but if youre not using that, some older shooters can be unplayable without the right turbo fire rate. Atleast playing checkpoint to checkpoint. I ran into an issue with Zero Wing for arcade where I needed a 30 mz fire rate to beat the final checkpoint. It otherwise seems impossible with how the final boss works. My hori rap4 had a 24 hz fire rate but none of my other controllers were fast enough, including the hori. I used a 16 dollar retroflag genesis style pad, and that allowed me to beat the final boss. Something to consider when choosing a base to mount the sticks in. Not so much an issue with games that have auto built into the design, like alot of bullet hells. Also really like those rubber balltops. Really stays in my hand.
Yes I still go back and forth. I have one LS40 which with its short throw/small deadzone is great for shmups. But when I play fighting games, action or beat-em-up I'll tend to bring out my Sanwa JLF.
For the shaft covers, it's just because of my grip style (wineglass) where the shaft is between the ring/pinky finger. I actually get a lot of control by keeping that as tight as possible so a shaft cover actually does reduce my control considerably. But with a different grip style it's not an issue at all.
Ah, ok I see. I was thinking not having a shaft was causing a mechanical issue. My grip is a little different so I see your point.
Nice. Yea for fighting games I like a little looser stick. When its too tight I end up jumping when I dont want to. Great breakdown. Appreciate the reply.
@@neondagger
Just use a shorter shaft and rotate the sanwa stock restrictor +add 2pounds spring maybe add some weight to the fórmula with aluminum balltop
Thanks for the input. I've tried different mods on Sanwa. But in my experience there's no real way to get the Sanwa to perform like a Seimitsu or similar but there have been attempts to get it closer. Notably, there is the Kowal actuator mod which reduces the activation distance, and I used a short hori shaft in one of my Sanwa installs which did help reduce the throw. But overall I found the kowal mod clunky feeling and just overall it didn't have the feel or performance I was going for. By the way if you rotate the restrictor it will turn it into a 4-way stick. And I find that spring tension should be as light as possible while maintaining a tight engage/neutral return as otherwise it's very hard to do consistent hairline movements on the stick.
@@neondaggerThere actually is a way to make the Sanwa perform like a seimitsu. The Otto DIY V1 kit. In fact I am pretty sure that is the whole point of it in the same way the V2 was designed to emulate korean levers.
Honestly you should try it out, as based on the video I think my JLF with the V1 might have actually have a shorter throw than your LS-40. Plus the Otto kits are known for being super high quality with teflon pivots and what not.
Despite the Otto kits being quite popular, nobody really seems to talk about the V1. But at least to me, it seems like it like would be perfect for shmups. Although I am not nearly as good at shmups as you, so I can only speculate. Either way, if you ever get the urge to try something new, I think an otto v1 should be at the top of your list. And hopefully you make a video about it, because I would love to hear your thoughts.
I have always wanted a larger shaft ;)
Can you recommend a modder that builds great sticks at this level? - I want to use it on MISTer with the lowest lag possible.
;) good question about builders. Not really sure but someone could probably give you some good advice at the electricunderground reddit. As for the lowest lag, it's going to be hard to beat retroarch/shmuparch + CRT. Retroarch can in many cases give you lower than original hardware levels of lag. I use Retroarch + LCD( < 1 frame lag) and the result is still lower than original hardware in most cases. But the ultimate setup for low lag AND arcade perfect emulation is probably: MISTer + CRT + low latency stick PCB. Believe it or not a lot of stick PCBs can add a frame or two of lag. I should probably make a video on this!
@@neondagger - yea that would be great - thanks.
is it ok to play shmup on korean lever?
Never tried it but some players prefer it. Mark at ElectricUnderground has a custom Korean lever he plays with and talks about it and why he prefers it in one of his videos.
How are you getting on with the stick? Still happy with it?
Yes! I've gotten more comfortable with it as time has gone on and whatever growing pains there were at the start are pretty much gone.
Anyone know what shoot em up game was in the intro was it radien
Try a Hitbox. I beat raiden project with it.
muscle memory with ls32 to reach another level ls40
Awesome video. Just a beginner here with a stupid question: were most shmup arcade sticks using a circular gate or an octagonal restrictor plate? Most advice on modding arcade sticks is for fighting games. Thanks!
That's a good question. I'm guessing most were square gate simply because that's the default in Japan. But in North American arcades it was probably octagonal. For me personally I go for square because its a shorter distance to move (throw) and I like the feel of hitting corners. You may have to try both to see which you prefer.
@@neondaggerthanks. I think I may get a gate that has the ability to do inserts so I can try square and octagonal.
What I find most interesting is that you seem to play in Yoko on your Asus screen? Or just for practice?
I never really found a convenient way to tate the monitor (which I otherwise really like). So all of my runs are on this kind of small screen when compared to most setups.
The Seimitsu LS-32 and LS-40 are also perfect for bmups, platformers, and Neo-Geo games.
Oh, and Street Fighter 1.
i have Seimitsu LS-40-01 SE and i didn't like it , i'm looking for something lighter w/ Short travel
probably the IL magnetic joystick might be your best bet.
Which stick would you reckon for tekken 7?
might as well get a korean stick , there are faster more accurate sticks out there for tekken over the korean stick .
But they are old ancient and hard to ever find
I need a bit of help. So my older Qanba wooden arcade stick has a metal panel with 4 holes to mount directly to the body of the LS-32 but it sits way too high at 27mm. Is there a standard height from top panel of my arcade stick to the top of shaft (right below the balltop)? If im listening right to your video it should be 22mm?
Yes the standard height is 22mm with the SS plate, which pushes the stick up due to the S-shaped plate. While the flat SE plate would give a height of 17.5mm. 27mm sounds extremely high, but if you can use the SE plate instead you can bring it down to 22.5mm, which should be much much better!
@@neondagger Thanks for the response! Going to put in an order for the flat plate. The 27mm height was driving me nuts in shmups haha.
Wtf is this gameplay wtffff this is so sick how you dodging all those plasma that’s sick wtf
At 9:32 what is it for a game? Can u tell me the name?!
ESPRade
@@neondagger do you have a shopping parts list for the stick?
would like to test the same setting. i am not so happy with my stick.
Do you prefer a octagonal gate or square for shmups?
I go with square gate across the board. It's all I've ever used so I'm not sure what octagonal brings to the table. I undertand why you would want to feel heavy restriction in the corners, but not sure I'd like feeling the restriction as I'm moving in single directions. Seems like it would be annoying but I've never tried it. Might just come down to personal preference/feel.
My son has to play on a arcadestick for accessibility reasons. I bought him a nacon dijah..the switches came messed up. Double inputs ect.. i bought a new board and switches from paradise arcade..it was a cheap Chinese knockoff. The green on the board is even peeling off..got any idea where i can buy some real products. Im thinking about getting a new stick or just replace the switches and board in the jlf i have..really could use some help because i dont trust any site after i got screwed over..
I can't remember where I got this one from exactly. I've mostly ordered from FocusAttack and Paradise. I normally go with FA unless there's a stock shortage, as historically they are quite connected in the fighting game community and seem to take their reputation seriously, are quite active on social, etc. Hope that helps and good luck!
@@neondagger thanks ill try fa, I might of just got unlucky and I got the one bad one that slipped through or something because I hear nothing but good things about them. Thanks again.
What monitor are you using?
What kind of arcade controller box is that?
The controller is the Hori Real Arcade Pro EX-SE which originally came out for Xbox360. The monitor was Asus VX238H, which was good because it had almost no input lag and no motion blur. But a bit on the small side. So now I have the Asus VG27AQ, which is even better.
Are the buttons you use Seimitsu PS-15's or Sanwa OBSF's?
They're Seimitsu on this stick I'm using here. I really like them, though I guess I prefer Sanwa's for fighting games as they're a bit more "tappy/clacky" feeling.
Would the LS-32 be a better fit for a group playing fighters every once in a while?
Yes in my opinion the 32 is ideal if you play fighting games and shmups and want an all-purpose stick that is very good for both. I talk about this a bit near the end of the video.
@@neondagger thanks! Do you happen to know how different these korean sticks feel vs IL Eurosticks?
I'm trying to go for a retro aethstetics feel for my mame cabinet unless the korean sticks feel insanely better than the old American style ones.
Greetings, what brand of buttons do you recommend for the shumps? thank you
personally i would recommend IL arcade buttons because they are much sturdier than Sanwa or Seimitsu buttons, but if you don't have a arcade stick that doesn't fit IL or HAPP buttons, go with seimisu ps-14 GNs ps-15s or alutimos
Is the LS-56 stick good for the Street Fighter 2 Campion edition? My fight stick is a Gamesir C2. Thank you.
It's hard to recommend a stick. I'd say SF2CE is pretty strict on inputs. You have to be more precise than with most fighting games. I think the 56 (which is similar to the 40) would take some getting used to, but would give maybe a bit more precision. But honestly if it were me I would go with the LS-32, or even the Sanwa JLF for the early Street Fighter games. Hope that helps.
@@neondagger thanks for the input!!!This def helps!
Shump goat
is it supposed to be so loose and deflection-heavy? Had to use zippy ls32 copy spring, which isnt a good one either, so finding a harder and compatible spring would be better if they exist at all
You mean LS32? Yes it's just designed that way. I'm sure there are heavier springs for the 32, but I'm not positive it would help much. It's more about the distance between engage and actuator. Also a stiff spring needs more force so you could overshoot more easily. Maybe check out the sticks I talked about in the video. It was well worth it for me. Good luck!
@@neondagger I meant ls40, I was aware that these two arent supposed to be very strong, but bouncing happens too often as if something was wrong with default spring. I wanted to get ls56, but lots of things are impossible to get here, heavy seimitsu sticks are one of them.
@@veresdon4732 I'm not sure why you're experiencing bouncing. I tested out deflection at 7:35 and there wasn't any. After that you can see the LS-32 had quite a bit by comparison.
@@neondagger JLF with mods arrived, my ls40 is just as loose as stock jlf, probably even worse. I wanted to say what opinion I already got on community while trying to get into sticks, but I think I shouldnt.
"LS-32 the most popular stick for shmups" votes:33
On Shmups forum. Fairly representative sampling. Today there are more options but still most popular as average.
@@neondagger I have the ls-56 and ls-40 and I think the ls-56 falls into the 32 category by masking a lot of mistakes
Also yeah shaft covers are dumb
Haha yes! I think they became popular mainly because they helped prevent people stealing balltops at Japanese arcades. Which apparently became enough of a problem. Functionally though, they've just gotten in the way for me.
Shaft covers don't get in the way of my playstyle at all but i still much prefer the looks of a metal shaft.
Yoooo lotion up them hands, the cracks well magically disappear
I hate slipperyness and probably wash my hands way too much. If you look closely you'll see cracks in the translucent ball top on the LS32. Apparently that's what happens when you try to clean it with rubbing alcohol. Never thought about it, but I guess I'm a crack-handed cleanfreak sonofabitch!
@@neondagger LOL I had no idea that happens when you use alcohol! GOTTA MOISTURIZE FOR THAT DRY AND COLD WEATHER! Well it gets hella frigid up in North Dakota, and I don't want those cracks on your palm to split deep D:
TL;DR: Seimitsu LS-40
You should try SUZO Universal STC (System 500) stick. It has what you need but is a bitch to install due to how its build