The Real Problems with Diablo 4 PvP
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- 40% OFF GMG Performance Blue Light Glasses: go.gmg-perform... for the next 48 hours!
Diablo IV... is it a buy? Or should you refund? We weigh in on the real issues and the real problem with D4... Will PvP be any good?
▶️ Instagram:
/ coooleyd2
💬 Discord:
/ discord
🎦 Watch Live Streams:
/ coooley
🎦 Instagram:
/ coooleyd2
40% OFF GMG Performance Blue Light Glasses: go.gmg-performance.com/coooley for the next 48 hours!
and your glasses are so clean and shiny this video was your first time ever wearing them
40% off on Enigma performance blue light glasses, makes you teleport instant!
I was running to a nightmare dugeon to farm with my 94 HC rend barb.
When i ran into dungeon with a group of baddess on me I noticed a party was sitting at the entrance aound lvl 60.
I went back out and they was all dead, apparently they was afk.....kinda their own fault, never go afk in open world on hardcore
You do known Ibuprofen is hard on your Kidneys right... Its acetaminophen AKA Tylenol that you cant have alcohol with Cooley says so on the drug facts!
Can I add a prescription?😮
I love the damage cap suggestion for pvp. I love pvp and would like to see them balance it properly.
That just shifts the meta to skills with multiple hits. Bone Spirit becomes useless for instance. First thing they need to do is tone down the damage and give players way more DR and DR options.
@@saintsword23 maybe something similar to the 1/8 damage on d2
U have 90% dmg reduction in pvp already, and it stacks.
@@Zazie900 It's 93%. It needs to be much higher imo.
@@saintsword23 it actually starts at 92, but yah
If every class has the same or very similar mobility, damage, or cc, wouldn't the characters lose much of their distinctiveness? If possible it's better to balance things while keeping e.g. their mobility different to keep the classes distinct.
I also love the cinematics and the visuals of the game.
This is correct and we already have a game that demonstrates this. Its called World of Warcraft. As the game moved on from being Vanilla WoW to multiple expansion they added more and more things to each class and also added more things to classes that they didnt have. By the time of the Warlords of Draenor expansion ability bloat was insane and every class had everything. Since that expansion (2013) classes have gone through 2 revamps and redesigns with the most recently happening at the start of this/end of last xpac. And only now in a long time do i think class balance is not too bad especially compare to where it used to be.
Long story short giving classes the same stuff is not the answer they should be given in lore/kit abilities not stuff from other classes.
Coooley! I got to agree on the playthrough, i kept myself in an information void before it and i didn't regret it for a second, went through watching all the cinematics n stuff, and i loved it! :)
Now it's time to see what else is fun.
thanks for the upload.
Great game so far. Do some PvP, brother!
Shared skills through items shouldn't only be for teleport. The more options each class has, the better. In D2, if you were a Sorceress putting all of your skills into a single damage type, you could pick up a Lower Resist curse wand to help with damage. A Necromancer could get the Beast runeword to gain the Fanaticism aura to buff summons or a Barb could use Beast to gain Werebear for some extra tankiness. Blizz needs to everything they can to increase build variety.
Alls you gotta do is raise that dmg reduction up the life totals and damage of monsters
They can do it... lost ark does it... the cc chaining is rough but landing a cc chain feels amazing
When you enter the fields of hatred your paragon system could be inactive or have a separate pvp paragon and then the stats in pve don't effect the pvp board
What a hot piece of garbage. This game feels like a mundane job. Not fun. Developers were lazy to build any variety into the game. All dungeon bosses are khazara xyzzz. Itemization is crap. While whirlwinding the barb animation looks like he has knee pain and its a tedious job for him. D2 barb was in his prime and swung fast even with attacks like concentrate and berzerk. D4 barb looks like your uncle at a barbeque and its a chore for him to even stand-up.
It's because the swings actually register with monsters in the new engine u mook
@@Zazie900 Hey bozo, Whirlwind in d3 and d4 is damage over time or ticks..there is no hit calculation going on per target in whirlwind. If you ever played a d2 barb which hit the last whirlwind breakpoint in dualwield you would understand how awesome it felt, compared to this weaksauce lazy coding game mechanic tick damage.
We need to make the PVP community huge in D4 in order to get a large enough voice to push for changes, but we need those changes in order to make PVP huge. A bit of a catch-22 situation.
The real problem is, it doesnt have enigma
Maybe in the expansion
and why the heck are so many numbers flying around... no one need that... except mobile gamers^^
Lol, thats right
I need an insight for my act 2 merc…oh wait…
I'd be happy with it being there with a double length CD timer so nobody ever wants to make it.
Can't believe Cooley's still at ~50k subs despite often receiving 100k views on videos, what the fuck.
He, if any Diablo creator, deserves a cult-like follower base
haha thanks, my dude. I just try to make 'em worth your time :)
It's the algorithm
Just keep upvoting every vid as soon as it drops eventually there will be a lot more people and Cooley will get the recognition he deserves and make sure you watch them all the way through to bump the view count
I hated enigma , pre new rune wars Diablo 2 was my jam, it’s unbalanced like Diablo 2 was but it’s good , like daycwhere you either rolled zon or sorc/ charge pally for pvp , Cooley do you remember the charged bolt bug days by the way?
So lemme get this straight.. they can scale every single mob in the game to your level, but they for some reason can't do it with players? Got it..
Coooley is the best in the biz at transitions into sponsor reads, and it’s not even close.
Yeah but he has the worst sponsors
@@kr1me2000 If your eyesight is good and you have a full head of hair 😉
@@sickofitall8486 Well this is fine but anyone that supports raid shadow legends is a complete loser.
Ben Shapiro might have him beat lol
As an optometrist, your part of GMG-glasses are hilarious. What you need is a bit of dioptres infront of your eyes to relax accommodation, which could be a pair of reading glasses. The blue filter has little to no shown beneficial effects in studies.
I love your content though. :)
I love the pvp but you got level 80 players decked out in ancestral uniques coming to nightmare to farm lower level players. I wish we had duel/team matchmaking in an arena like BDO. Also wouldnt hurt to have like 1-2 more skill slots
real pb is 75 $ game 0 content copy pasta every where same 151 dungeon boss, u finish the game in 9 hour no end game ... its rly pooor
From what we see in this footage, PVP in D4 is not heading in the right direction at all lol. Same shit as D3 where u enter a zone and get 1 or 2 shot.
Indeed they did put crazy dmg multiplyers everywhere on stuffs, making it impossible to control dmg output for the devs.
Damn it
Mannn, just yesterday I was haven a good time on my lv 70 in the fields, most people are 65-75 so it felt pretty okay... Then a level 100 rolls through and your only option is to leave...
I want Spirit pots!. The skill generated spirit system pisses me off. I think a system where you have four spirit pots like your health would be so much more enjoyable in my opinion. D2 reigns supreme when it comes to health and mana control.
Totally agree. Or just take it back to the old ways of health and mana management.. the resource system in d4 blows. The game reminds me too much of Diablo immortal which gave me fucking ptsd
I think the video title should be "the problems with PvP Diablo 4"
Not much is said about the PvE aspect of the game, which also has it's issues.
Refuse to buy it.
At best, people I know playing it think its "ok". "OK" in a honeymoon first week release means the game is garbage.
Imagine being a Diablo RUclipsr and skipping cutscenes LEL. That aside, thanks booboo. I'll grab this on sale.
will you be back to d2 in 6 months - a year... that is the d4 question.
This game is just refreshed d3. Looks ugly, not dark. Where is the struggle in this fireworks of damge,status effects clown Fiesta?Cant seee anything. And hitting doesnt got the feeling- this is one of most important things. If you dont feel hitting first through proper sound
followed by correct animation then it sucks. POE is doing it much better,however it is not the best. Good I didnt buy d4. Nothing to regret. Really. And if story is so good I will check on yt.
Tbh you comment is silly. Its really dark and grim and graphics overall are really good. Skills are weighty and sounds compliment those hits really well. Sounds are meaty, you hear bones cracking, blood flowing and enemies turning into gory corpses. Shows thay you havent played the game yet still spam bs you have no clue about.
I guess I'm just old-fashioned, but I cannot see myself ever playing a game with all this text spamming the screen while I'm trying to conquer and pillage. Spam my screen with drops only, please.
Ikr. Feels like a cheap mobile game.
It's like everyone forgot DAoC pvp and only remember modern soft pvp...
I thought he was gonna talk actual game issues, not just pvp 😂 I got baited lol
Ok we're not going to act like D2 PvP is balanced vs D4 lol...
Most classes are 1 hit kills, plenty of mobility issues.
One was made 20 years one the other just dropped 20 years to fix the issue
i absolutely don't care about d4, i stay on d2r who is just perfect for me
Playing druid vs barb and rogue in pvp has felt so awful.
The real problem is sanctuary should be a place where the hero can also choose to be the villian. Having multiple storylines would provide thousands of hours of game play.
100% should be able to side with Lilith fuck being good all the time
CAN YOU NOT START THE VIDEO WITH A SPOILER PLEASE
Here 7 months later, was curious about your thoughts on D4 pvp, I agree wholeheartedly with your balance outlook. I am part of the small but thriving PvP community that still exists to this very day within the Fields of Hatred. Believe it or not, Necromancer still has a hard time keeping up with the other classes. Season 1 was definitely still Poison Rogue and Barbarian dominated, but never sleep on sorcerer. Season 2, the Ball Lightning sorcerer is the clear #1, with Barbarian a close second with both Thorns and Bleed variants super deadly.
With the advent of season 2, Blizzard reworked/nerfed the Poison Rogue's hidden damage multipliers, and changed various other ways damage is calculated in the game. But surprisingly, for the most-part, the same hidden caps are still being used inside the Fields. 7200 armor will net you the same as 9200 armor, despite what the tooltip says. Crit damage is mostly capped at 250%. Stats you would think would work really well, and do in PvE, like Damage to Close, are a trap in the Fields, doing next to nothing for damage enhancement vs players. Thanks to people who have taken it upon themselves to devote the time and energy and spreadsheets into testing all these interactions, most of the information for what works and doesn't has been documented.
That being said, PvP has still been a mess as far as true balance is concerned, with many bugs affecting all classes and simply broken seasonal mechanics like Barbarian 10% chance for thorns to explode for x300% damage, Rogue 23 Combo Points Million Arrow Rapid Fire, there are always gonna be builds that are just simply broken and whoever uses them either enjoys the cheap thrill of domination but alas that feeling is fleeting especially when clearly taking advantage of bugs or Developer whoopsies.
I'm not going to bore you with many more details, this message is already getting way too long. I just wanted to say that PvP is very much still a thing in D4, whether or not the Developers actually develop anything for it or not. And the fights are still just as exhilarating. I feel bad that you chose such a lackluster PvP class such as necromancer and had that decision affect your outlook on the whole situation. There is only ONE necromance PvP build that is actally capable of doing much of anything against other players, and that is coined by my clanmate and friend Lord Saura. It's a neat build, that centers around decrepify's lucky hit based cooldown reduction capabilities, which is capable of making the ultimate skill Blood Wave, which usually has a CD of 60s, spammable. That, combined with an aspect that changes blood wave into a shadow skill that does shadow dot to anyone in it's wake, the basic skill Decompose, corpse explosion mianma pools, corpse tendrils and blood mist. Check out his videos, he is a master at his craft no doubt about it and it's truly a sight to see.
We all have high hopes for PvP in season 3, and it's coming fast (January 23rd, 2024). So, if you wanted to give D4 PvP another shot, your opportunity to be on a level playing field is coming very soon. Did I mention there are weekly tournaments during the seasons? These are all 1v1, single elimination, with special end-of-season Championships held every season, ranking system in place based on participation and w/l, top 16 fighters from each season are allowed to participate in the Championships. 3 tournaments a week, at 7:30PM east/4:30PM west- Thursday-No rules single elim 1v1, Friday-single elim 1v1 with restrictions put in place in the spirit of balance determined by the community itself, and saturday-friday rules with Team 4v4's. These tournaments are streamed live on twitch by a super cool dude named Reef Johnson. He is really the reason we can even say we have a PvP community in this game and for that I am super grateful. We grow larger every season, and hopefully one day blizzard will show us some love.
Hey, come join us, we will help you out however we can if you wish to become a D4 PvP degen just like you are in D2. It really is super technical and it gets less and less class dependent as the game goes on. But.. next time, just roll sorc and you will have a much better time. Sorry for the novel! I hope it was worth the read to you, and I appreciate your time if you did just that. Stay Cool, Coooley!
your d4 bro,
CharMiLLi0n
Whats the d4 pvp discord ?
@@PurplDrank a lot of people just use the official d4 (sanctuary) discord. There’s a channel there for pvp discussion. Other than that, there are pvp clans that have their own respective discords. But sanctuary is where i would start
THIS GAME GONNA DIE HARD
I don’t know how well this would work but they could also try what riot games does in Aram. 20% dmg reduction to other players or 10% damage reduced on ww. Etc etc.
how to fix d4: add enigma
love it lol
You know what keeps players playing for decades when it comes to diablo? Not designing the game around "what players do in diablo 2" and just making a great diablo game that has *RARE, valuable, tradable LOOT* and not showering you in personal bullshit loot!!! In D4 you can literally run around and pick up shit from other players kills. How stupid is that? Takes the essence of Diablo right out. Such stupidity.
Enigma ruined PVP in D2. We want class balance NOT all classes to have the same moves.
Enigma is such a pain in the ass, hope they don't go with that approach.
6:30 in - this is upheavel, not WW. WW is definitely not that good at level 25 lmao
Man nobody understands this ww is a mid-late game build as of right now
TO LVL 50 AS BARBARIAN I WAS STRUGGLING ON FIELDS. BUT AFTER LVL 60 MY THORNS OUTPUT WENT UP, AND IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW HARD YOU HIT - EVERYONE DIES XD
Yess add enigma and runewords! pog!
I think the PvP is going to be tough in this game. My buddy and I hit 50 last night, headed out to Fields of Hatred, and got pooped on by a 66 and 62 rogue. We lasted maybe 4 or 5 seconds
I agree, there should be more damage mitigation to make fights last a bit longer. 2 skills shouldnt kill somebody in 3 seconds
Meh, Enigma and the entire 1.10 patch ruined D2 PVP for me. IMO, D2 PVP was in its best state in 1.09...except for Necros..lol...and Sorceresses did not own PVP back then. Barbs and Amazons were the most popular for "good manner" dueling.
I haven't done enough PVP in D4 to form an opinion yet.
For the Necro class it’s a bit worse. Because in D3, we had Blood Rush. The Necro teleport skill. Necro are the slowest moment class in D4. Coupled with weak, stupid summons... to boost engagement. Because with so many minions, the player must have a sense of peril or the game becomes uninteresting.
So. They took away the mobility skill. Partly to fit the game on consoles.
The Blizz folks who learned the hard way that players hate nerfs (boost the others instead) have retired and/or gone to their own graves... or new positions elsewhere. Lessons learned became unlearned. They even lost the D2 source code. Who loses source code? (As a computer professional, I made sure to capture and adequate backup code, executables and documentation. I also ported software too.)
Necro needs 3 things: mobility. Summon persistence improved. Summons direction. I have those things on Titan Quest. It’s over 10 years old, and still gets expansions. We need a remaster of that to force Blizz’ hands to improve their products.
D4 looks like its decent game for an ARPG and might even be fun, but taken as a true Diablo game, it's garbage.
My barb is garbage for pvp, I’ve tried WW now I’m trying a HOTA build and both builds I get one shot by almost everyone in the field no matter the class and my hits do basically nothing to whoever I’m fighting, if I can even get my fury up, and If I’m not killed in under 1 second by other classes I’m stun locked constantly by a rouge and die because I literally can’t do anything in the fight. Im lvl 62 get killed by players above my level and below like how i described above constantly. trying to get the killer armor set but it’s not fun at all because Im in a constant stun lock or get basically one shot all the time. I just don’t understand how my build can be this much worse than everyone else’s. It does good in pve but that’s it.
Guess the Blackmail Ended - We All Know ☠💀
Teleport shouldnt be in the game. Diablo 2 pvp was fun, but everyone having teleport just killed the game. Ruined diversity. Damned if you do damned if you dont release enigma then sorcs would have been OP forever. But still, lets not make the same mistake diablo 2 did and take all the thinking,diversity, and theorycrafting out of the game by giving everyone the same BIS armor.
I think the bigger issue with your PVP argument that it might keep the game alive for a long time for there super committed high percentage of %1 A type fans. But even game, blizzard them selves make one, that have the most aggressive self congratulatory A type fans still %80 of polled players just want to have casual fun. Remember that is polled players, and polled players tend to be more committed then those that ignore them, so it maybe even higher. If this season model isn't just cosmetic and shift the meta ever 3 month, and being the kind of game it is means new meta comes with a chore list of grinding to get back to playable.
If this is what dev want things to look like then you've not really made a PVP that keeps the game alive for decades, but more so a hamster wheel that keeps the most extremely committed players spinning.
Only problem I got with the game. People obsess over the necromancer.Blizz has a necro wang in their mouth's. Therefore every single boss fight has adds. It's fucking stupid. World boss I fought didn't and it was nice.
Making pvp interactions % based feels unsatisfying and doesn't reward your build. or effort. I think its better to balance PVP and then nerf PVE as appropriate. If they don't flip this thing on its head that way I promise you both pvp and pve will become more similar to d3 as time goes on.
Blizzard got more lazy over the years imo. Most of the players for most games is pve players so to them that's where the money is. It's that simple. I think blizzard needs some serious competition to wake up and that the losing money kind. I know it's far away but I wish aoc goes well and like 90% of most mmo pvp players goes there. That would be a wake up call for at least one genre.
For me the problem for pvp in d4 is just the sheer fact that it exists to begin with and with no separate servers. A buddy and I went through a pvp zone to just passby and get to my next objective outside of the zone and this one jackass kept killing us wasting so much time and it was clear and obvious that we had nothing on us nor was even trying to even fight. So what blizzard should do is simply create a server dedicated to pvp because then those who don't like pvp don't have deal with it and if the devs wants to nerf/buff anything they can without worrying about the regular content being effected.
Fuck no enigma shouldent be in D4 lmao. You have tonns of mobility skills in this game don't destroy that aspect of it like that aspect of it was destroyed in diablo 2 turning it into the only viable meta and having the pvp scene of a medi evil game look like dragon ball z, and a dammage cap would punish the slower attack speed heros more making wirlwind evan more meta its not a fair compansation. Good to see you're giving d4 ago though and look forward to more of youre content
You need some kind of TvT arena with ranking. Or a kind of system like Diablo Immortal. Yes it’s pay to win as fk, but at it’s core is a really good pvp system with the immortal vs shadows
Why would you skip the cutscenes breh smh. Also i dont think the team should worry about pvp balance. WoW has shown us that its a nightmare, impossible to do and the community is never happy. It should be left a wild west.
I think that if game developpers decide to implement pvp in their game even when a big part of you player base don't rly care, you should at least work towards making it balanced and fun for those who wants to do it.
Problem because u cant Chain Locking like D2 and Tele stomp LOL😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
you guys can play d4 for free by just downloading path of exile... because that is what this is now... its definitely nothing like d2. ill play it once for the story but the replay seems non existent with this scaling damage and shitty itemization
Pro tip: turn off the damage numbers and just enjoy the game.
The game looks way better without them. Goes from mobile crap to AAA in one click 👍
Dude, I had no idea what a pvp area is so i walked in and out of no where a level 90 character kills me(level 55) -_-. I'll never go anywhere near there again
$70 full price game, pay for early access, pay for seasonal battle pass, in game shop... "Healthy monetization" lol Cooley you are high as f
While certain classes may benefit from additional mobility, I really disagree that giving all classes tons of mobility should be the answer. A better approach is just to balance around identity.
If sorc identity is CC and mobility, thats great, but limit their global defenses or damage. If necro has limited mobility, give them more immunes or mega spike damage etc. If rogue identity is burst damage and mobility, limit their defensive options or give them longer cooldowns for their main rotation. If barbs are the chad identity, give them high sustain and runspeed at the expense of limited CC or instant mobility. etc etc. Otherwise its just like the enigma problem, where everything becomes a similar playstyle without class identity, IMO.
In general mobility and CC are "king" in pvp, but you could easily build counter builds that abuse unstoppable states and timed burst with the right balancing/mechanics. I hope Blizzard gives pvp the attention it deserves if we are vocal enough about it.
Great suggestions, dude
Btw Ibuprofen is mostly harder on your kidneys but still mild. Tylenol is incredibly hard on the liver, and also the number one cause of cirrhosis world wide.
no enigma lol that shit sucks with a controller, better bring frw charms back, everyone zooming around at 300frw.
Expects something like Diablo + Lost Ark....instead its just Diablo 2 Remastered with better graphics.
They need to fix the cross platform desync it’s absolutely disgusting, I lose 1v3 90% because of that
Instead of teleport, when you enter pvp zones, either you get like 5 charges of evade or it has no cooldown. Something like that is what i was thinkin about
Would be nice if there was different zones for different lvls so im not getting one shot by people 15-30 levels higher than me.
The best part about d4 pvp is playing on my level 77 getting rocked by level 100s… its so enjoyable yall have no idea
Agreed mobility and CC are the two main issues with the game hands down!
My biggest problem with pvp is its the best area to farm gear but theres no life griefers that just sit in the fields all day waiting for people that just want to farm gear.
Great video! Certainly, the high damage numbers and the amount of cc needs to be looked at
I quit pvp after me and my brother me a necro and my brother a rogue came across an enemy rogue who was equal level and folded both of us in seconds
The only problem of this game for me is its Internet Required... Sadly for consoles its internet required as well.
Too many lights and names and satud for killing 3 monsters... So annoying, it looks like epileptic way to sell a game
The big problem with Diablo 4 is the gameplay, its VERY bad.
Now we're making comments about whether in game monetization is "healthy" instead of bullshit.
Blizzard has never had a balance pvp system in any of their games why would this be any different.
"I didn't what any reasonable human being would do...drugs" 😂😂😂 that was great.
No we don't want a melting pot of every class having a similar mechanic that does the same thing... that's d3..
After Diablo 3, I will never buy another new Diablo game made by this Blizzard.
I would categorize PvP into the ''endgame'' part of any ARPG - Is it necessary? No. But it does make the ''endgame'' just better overall. You have another goal to grind towards instead of killing a strong monster or boss faster then before.
PVP should never be level scaling, this is this isn't 2010, blizzard living in the past again
Ill just stick with Diablo III untill this game reveals its true identity and gets cheaper.
As someone who PvPs in every other game I play It would be nice if they balanced it, but I'm pretty sure the D4 devs have already said PvP is what it is and they have no plans to balance it or anything, it's put in as a sort of "no man's land" and isn't meant to be competitive. I'm not sure exactly what the statement was since it was a while ago now but that's what I took away from what was said.
Yeaaa i hope they do eventually look into it. I think it could be quite fun tbh.
Immunity and unstoppable from flame barrier makes a sorcerer move faster 🤷🏼♂️
devs already made more than than they did with the immortal in its lifetime
diablo 4 can close and the devs already won
Then here I am at level 51 struggling on my hota barb because his damage is trashcan lol
A lot of ibuprofen = hard on kidneys
A lot of Tylenol = hard on liver
A lot of knowledge = hard on brain
@@Coooley truth
A lot of alcohol = hard on
“Pun intended” ah, i see you’re no coward 💪 👌
Didn’t WoW try a % of damage approach for PVP in some expansion / season?
Best blizzard playthrough ever? Better than Warcraft 3. Wow!
Needs to be like guild wars 2 someone with low level is maxed to match other players
I agree, pvp is important for Diablo. Many of the people I've spoken to about D3 stated how disappointed they were that there was no pvp.
Why the devs have chosen not to give every class a movement skill is ridiculous...
The real problem is lagging servers and no offline mode
They should just balance pvp and PvE separately, like ESO
For pvp no paragon level should be included. Leave it at level cap/ items and build. Paragon should be pve only unless there's paragon caps / an actual arena for pvp with leaderboards ect and are full out. They need to have damage against other players halved / cannot be stunned ect ect to allow every build a chance to hit, get hit and have some skill involved in It. Diablo 2 pvp was so good because the stat and skill tree. Diablo 3 and 4 didn't use the diablo 2 skill tree/ stat style so it's never going to compete, that's where the problem lies. D3 and d4 are flashy damage chaotic. It doesn't suit pvp. The only solution is to have a separate pvp and pve. Pvp damage against other players should be 50% damage to allow interactions to last and allow an actual fight to occur or allow groups of people to fight and have significant consequences. As it stands doing 1 shots and freezing people and just spamming is terrible. Remove all affects of immobilize, reduce slows and stuns to a second or 2, have some classes take more damage via mele or magic ect to kind of give classed advantages and weaknesses. So far there's no real weakness or advantages other than maneuverability and stuns.