Very interesting! I did notice more detail in the shadows for your latitude tests as well as with most of the shots that were matched. Also, the color seems to be SLIGHTLY more true to life for the FF over the the s35 counterparts. Thanks for the video!
Well just back from a pilgrimage to bh to get a bmpcc4k so i could use my lenses from gx85....mission accomplished. Certainly was hard with the g26k right there for a couple hundred more but the heart wants what the heart wants. 1 day of shooting in nyc. Some of the most beautiful footage Ive ever gotten. The 'of two lands' guy channel just stood out hitting exactly the kind of image I was looking for whaddya know it seems to just sorta come out of the camera. Awesome. (Sometimes and with my typical hack look still there but purdy!)
absolutely fantastic "lab test" of this camera. This is the kind of test I was waiting for, I deeply appreciate you making this, thank you :-) Shame on that the Cinema 6K doesn't have more dynamic range.
Subscribed! Very pleased to see Blackmagic enter the L-Mount Alliance. I'm going for the small and versatile (phase AF etc) S5IIx, but hope to do more videography and get a 6K some time (especially since it comes with DaVinci).
For me where the 6k FF shines compared to the other blackmagic cameras is the glass options. For people with vintage lens collections or are big on anamorphic, it's much better than a 6k pro. is it straight up better for everyone? maybe not...but is it better for a niche creative filmmaker market...very much so.
Great test!!! I have the P6K org and panasonic S5 org with some L mount lenses...but still I am not sold on the camera...and the G2 is really probably what I schould considere because my USB C port fried and I use sollely CFast Cards adaptor with SSD...
Josh, Firstly, thank you. An intelligent and well put together piece. I am a long time BM user and a big fan. I still have one of the lovely old URSA 4K studio cameras, but typically use the 6K units along with Canon kit for industrial/commercial work, which I've done for over 35 years with a lot of different hardware. It really annoys me when people put out stuff saying Blackmagic/Canon kit is 'crap', and this is probably also true of last year's phones and other hardware. I saw some plonker properly ranting on the other day about the fact that BM6K buttons were "on the back" and the camera "didn't have a flip screen" for his social media needs. Really?! Perhaps buy a different camera or use your phone mate! Frankly, Blackmagic really changed the landscape in terms of the hardware available to independent film makers. Yes, they have had some trouble getting kit out following the "I'm really excited to tell you about our new..." launch events, but the images of their cameras has been amazing from day one - I used to use the 2.5K boxes when they first came out. So, that all said - you're clearly a user and understand the issues. I was thinking about buying the new full frame 6K, but honestly, having watched your video and samples, it looks like the price drop on the 6K mkII makes this a much better option for most users unless you have a specific need for super wide images on your existing glass. Otherwise I'm not sure I'm seeing the advantage for most real-life users. Good work: appreciated. John M.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. Yeah I am very impressed with the images out of the Blackmagic cameras. As I stated in the video, I am personally happy with my 6K G2 purchase instead of the new 6K Full Frame. Thanks for watching!
You know what, you confirmed what I’ve been seeing. Wasn’t sure if I had a bad copy or my eyes were playing tricks on me. I definitely noticed more noise on the full frame at iso3200 and maybe even a stop below it as well. I’m kind of torn now because at base iso the full frame version imo definitely looks better with the extra depth full frame gives. Also love that it’s more friendly with anamorphics. On the other hand I love shooting at some of those off base ISO’s and I know the more useable image straight out at ISO’s like 800 and 2500-3200 is important to me. Decisions. I can only keep one 🤔
@@Josh_Sattin in this case though, it is a bit odd that the decision is if the increased noise of the bigger sensor is going to cut it. I can't think of any other examples where in a manufacturer's crop vs full frame products the signal to noise has decreased with a larger sensor size.
I agree Brian. Within a camera manufacturer's lineup, the full frame cameras often have better noise performance than the smaller sensors. But like I said in this video, the choice is yours if you want the full frame Blackmagic camera. There are tradeoffs.
I'm very surprised the OLPF didn't make an appearance in the image for the FF. I guess it would be more evident outdoors with more shadows in the frame.
I haven't compared these two cameras so I can't give you a good answer. The FX3 has autofocus, IBIS and higher frame rates. Besides that I don't want to give an opinion before I compare them.
Do you think a sirui nightwalker with the r7 would be anything close to a bmpcc 6k g2 with sigma art 18-35 and 50-100? I have the sigmas already, but currently shoot on the r7 and r8 with rf 15-35 and 24-70. Love coloring in resolve and want to try braw, love the bigger screen as well, so the g2 really has my attention for creative projects.
@@Josh_Sattin Any thoughts on the battle between g2 with existing sigma art lenses vs FF in s35 mode while saving for some full frame glass? The sale price on the FF has be all confused haha.
@@Lathrop_Media When I did my testing on the BM 6K FF I don't think I got a chance to test the S35 mode very much. So unfortunately I don't have an opinion.
One would have thought the Full frame having larger pixels would have had better low light. Pretty disappointing to see that much noise at 3200. I think this just shows how freaking good the 6k pocket is.
I keep coming back to this comparison. Been on the fence for a new BM camera. Would love if you did a review solely on the Blackmagic G2, similar to your Canon r7 series of videos.
Glad you’re covering blackmagic cameras. I think they are some of the most underrated and overlooked bodies out there. They also seem like they fit your style of shooting very well.
I would literally buy this camera right now if it wasn't for that awful horizontal banding at 5:26 - It's there no matter what your iso is at, all you need to do is raise your shadows in a dark scene and your shot is ruined.
Thanks for your video. I am surprised to see that the 6K Full Frame, even with bigger photosites, performs worse in low light than the G2. In the dynamic range test I did notice a better response of details in the shadows, and at high altitudes it breaks a little less than the G2
I know you repeat that both images look almost identical truoght the video but, at least in my monitor, the two images look nothing alike. Overall the shots on the left have more contrast (as deeper shadows) and more saturation. In the faces the difference is night and day. Yes, they could easily be matched but they do not look "identical". I don't think you could cut between the two without corrections.
Yes, almost identical. I used the same grade on both and did not color match them so you could see the differences. As I said, it would not be tough to get these two cameras to match. You always have to do a little bit of work when matching two cameras, but these are very close. Much closer than any two cameras I've seen before that had different sensors.
At 4:55 at + 5 stops there is clear DR different. The G2 shadows have mostly going or gone black and there is more highlight clipping on the nose. Also there is a strange colour shift of yellow and red on the face.
Just because a sensor is full frame doesn’t make it have better high ISO performance. These are not the same sensors. There are plenty of S35 sensors that have better high ISO performance than some full frame cameras.
The pocket 4K with metabones XL adapter is still the champ in my book. It has the fastest sensor readout, v90 SD cards run every resolution, and 4K is the most space efficient frame size and it’s the smallest body of them all. These newer bodies are kinda disappointing.
Josh !! My question is , when you shot prores those are huge files as you know. How much space do you have on your PC or do you use external SSD 20TB hard disk??
So in the DR/underexpose section, you mention the G2 as slightly better but that is an understatement, That banding is awful. That you for point ing me back here from your other video.
I mention the banding and you can clearly see it at -4 and -5 stops if you look at the image of the 6K FF. The 6K G2 does not show that banding when underexposed but in terms of overall dynamic range, they are similar. If you are getting this banding in your shots then you are underexposing. I would recommend keeping your ISO at 400 or lower (lower than 400 for more shadow information) and increase the exposure to your sensor by using a wider aperture or adding light to your scene to capture a proper exposure.
@@Josh_Sattin Thanks for the tips, I'm doing all of the above and more. Been shooting for a while. I believe I may have a faulty camera or this sensor is just awful in low light. I will be testing a bit more to see if I send it back. Thanks your videos and for all the great tips!
You're welcome. I'm obviously trying to be helpful here and I have no way of knowing where people are at when they comment. I have a few videos about how to expose and grade log footage (Clog3, Slog3) which you might want to check out. I consider my main talking head shot to be "moody" but I still have to get proper exposure for the subject (me) using light and aperture. I use a gray card and false color with the Blackmagic cameras. When I think of the low light performance of a camera, this has to do with the noise performance and color accuracy at higher ISOs, but it seems like you are near the base ISO here. So this to me is more about getting proper exposure because when you underexpose that's where you will see the banding. I hope this helps and thanks for watching the videos!
Great video! I'm considering the 6K G2 over the 6K Pro and 6K FF, because the difference of the 6K Pro pretty much only is the built-in ND filter. The 6K FF is full-frame, which can be worth it, but not sure if that's a big leap worth the money. Currently have a rigged out BMPCC 4k (with ext battery, matte box and nd filters, ext monitor etc.) and I am also not sure if it is worth the upgrade to the 6k G2. The 6k G2 has a crazy deal of €1500 and if I sell the BMPCC 4k, it is only €400 extra for me to upgrade.. Thank you!
Thank you for this comparison! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I'm looking at this for live streaming and doing video work for our church. It's a bummer that the HDMI output is only 1080p for both cameras - it's fine for streaming, but it just seems to be an interesting limitation.
hey josh need some help. my R8 says "Camera control is limited when used as UVC/AUC device" and then won't power with my Vmount battery. I know you rigged it out with the same battery as me, SmallRig VB99. Please can you tell me the fix to this problem?
It wasn’t mentioned in this review, but the CC6k vs P6k comparison is reminiscent of the P6k vs P4k comparison: you lose light without getting an improvement in noise. Say you need an f4.0 depth of field to keep the face in focus for an interview: P4k at f2.0 P6k at f2.5 CC6k at f4.0 Ultimately you will need more light, possibly more expensive lights! Granted, the P6k does have more resolution over the P4k. That’s the only real advantage. Without C-AF, the CC6k cannot replace a mirrorless body. Without noticeably better noise, the CC6k cannot replace the P6k.
Then there is the "poor" version, a Bmpcc4k with the Metabones speedbooster T (for the OG pocket) 0.58x almost full frame (1.1 crop factor) beautiful combo
Josh, I am confused. To my eye, in all the videos that I have seen on the web so far, the BMCC 6K FF produces better quality images than all the prior BMCCs . If you ask me to do a blind test choosing between the two (FF vs Pocket G2), I am sure I will perform with near 100% accuracy. In fact, at the beginning of your video, I spontaneously use my hands to block the info about which camera was which, just to have the chance to 'feel' the difference and to freely choose. And, in all the times, I was correct: the one on the left was the 6K FF and the on on the right the Pocket G2. I think that what you tested, when comparing the overexposed and underexposed images, was technically 'latitude', not 'dynamic range'. For dynamic range you have to do the kind of quantitative tests that the guys at CineD, Gerald Undone, and others do (you have to measure signal to noise ratios at the extreme stops). The problem with comparing cameras with just a couple of basic static scenes is that you don't get the 'feeling' of the image. I consider much more informative to show 'real' scenes side by side, hopefully as many different ones as you can (also including camera movements). This is the only way you can get a proper idea of the quality and character of an image, and I am surprised that nobody is doing that in a time of abundant camera tests on RUclips (CVP, CineD, Gerald Undone, they are not doing that either). Instead, all of them use charts and plastic artificial scenes that don't let you have a 'feeling' of the scene (this is not saying that you can't do the charts, but that you cannot jump into conclusions just by looking at the charts, you need real complex scenes to judge, and they cannot last just a copuple of seconds, the brain needs time). And you shouldn't judge this approach too subjective if you can guess which camera is which with more than 80% accuracy. Maybe you don't know why you prefer one over the other (it's difficult to put an experience into words), but if you can guess systematically and with good accuracy an image difference, this means you are pretty aware that there is a real difference. I appreciate all the excellent work you do to educate people about camera technologies and how to use them, but in this case I have to deeply disagree with with your statement that the BMCC 6K FF produces basically identical images than the G2. I think that the just too simple design of your test was just not adequate to capture the real and significant differences between these two cameras in terms of image quality. If your analysis contradicts most of the experiences of seeing real footage coming from the 6K FF (versus the G2), well, good scientific practice tells you that you have to revise your testing, instead of concluding that they produce basically identical images.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. I think a lot of what you are referring to as the feel of the image is the full frame look and comparing that with the image out of a S35 camera. This is completely subjective and there is no better, just personal preference. Please keep in mind that this video is labeled as a technical comparison. Most of the time I do go out and actually shoot with the camera in my first impressions videos. You can see that video here: ruclips.net/video/XhY_7PPl0Yo/видео.html A lot of people are confused about how to test for dynamic range. In my opinion you should do it in three ways. The computer analytics that Gerald and CineD do to get the calculated stops of dynamic range based on a given signal to noise ratio, actual images of a high dynamic range scene and then a latitude test. CineD does both the computer testing and the latitude test whereas Gerald only does the computer analysis. I believe all three methods are important to get a sense of the dynamic range of a camera, but I don't have access to the computer analysis so I do the other two. There is also a lot of misunderstanding about what a latitude test is, why it is important and how it helps analyze the dynamic range of a sensor. I did talk about this stuff briefly in an older video: ruclips.net/video/drVQbkevoLY/видео.html I have been technically testing and shooting with as many camera as possible over the last few years. I have spent a lot of time researching methods of testing, practicing, talking with other people and putting this all into the types of reviews that I make. I take this very seriously, and do my best to be as accurate and independent as possible to assist people in their purchasing decisions. I stand by the results of these technical tests. On a technical level, these cameras are very similar and the 6K G2 even outperforms the 6K FF in some ways. BUT, if you like the FF image out of the 6K FF then that's the right camera for you. Often a lot of people don't like these types of technical testing videos because of a feeling they got or a purchase bias. I get that, but I will keep sharing my results in the best way possible that I can. I hope you found some value from this video.
Quite interesting. It does contradict what Matteo bertoli's "reviews" (though he didn't release any in depth review yet) saying the ff is way more capable in low light than the g2. Did you use the same aperture with both camera (I guess you did but well...) or did you have to stop down the ff to match the g2?
I kept the settings the same on both cameras for all of the tests. For the low light tests in particular, I set the exposure and then raise the ISO while adjusting the shutter speed to maintain the exposure.
@@Josh_Sattin thanks a lot! great in-depth review. So the ff and g2 had same aperture, same shutter speed, and same iso each time?! this would totally contradict other review I saw : Matteo bertoli said he had a hard time shooting in daylight with the ff because it gets way more light than the g2. In which case it should be able to get better performance in low light (I mean the ff could perform worst in its low light context but its low light context should be much darker than the g2's)
You're welcome. Yes, same settings on both cameras. Sensor size does not affect the exposure. It does affect other things though. I made this video a while ago that you should check out to learn more about crop sensors: ruclips.net/video/Qcdtq3N6yQI/видео.html
@@Josh_Sattin well sensor size doesn’t but pixel size should… but cool I’ll watch that as soon as I have a bit more time 🙃 thanks a lot for your answers 🙏🙏🙏
@@rometillier4409 No he's saying iso won't be impacted by sensor size, which is literally true. Even a micro four thirds camera will be at the same iso given the same F stop. The real difference is the quality relative to the iso. More FF cameras look amazing at 4000 iso than apsc cameras. But you'll never see a FF at 2500 iso while an APSC is at 4000. That's all he means.
I'm confused as to why there is no improvement on low light for fullframe. It makes no sense. This is second test I have seen that reached the same conclusion. I guess I will be keeping my 6kpro.
The 6K Full Frame has a different sensor than the 6K G2. Not every full frame camera has better low light performance than every S35 sensor. They are different sensors.
This is gonna sound ridiculous here, but if I was using the FF to film footage to add to a project majorly shot on the G2 (6k 16:9) and wanted to keep aspect ratios the same, would shooting at 6k DCI on the full frame be ideal?
Since you filmed most of the project in 16:9 I would probably shoot DCI on the 6K FF and just zoom in a bit in post to crop the edges. Just keep that cropping in mind when you are framing your shots on the 6K FF in DCI. You will lose a little bit of the edges.
They might be a similar price, but they are intended for very different users. The 6K G2 is much more of a cinema camera and will have a better image but be slower to use. The FX30 has things like autofocus and stabilization.
Disagree with your analysis of dynamic range. I get 16+ stops of DR in post for my pocket 6k pro. Unless you mean that this is the DR you get without any post work, then yes I agree with the 13 stops
I didn't measure the actual number of stops of dynamic range and report on that. I mentioned in this video that Blackmagic lists both cameras as having 13 stops of dynamic range on their website. I just compared the two cameras to each other in this video.
@@Josh_Sattin Yeah, makes sense. I have made tests with my camera, and at ISO 800 I get 9.3 stops above middle grey when grading and pushing the image. My personal take is that Blackmagic is being too conservative with their DR statements
I won't be doing any future tests on the R6II raw since I don't have that camera and I tested what I needed to test. You could certainly uses a Ninja V as monitor on the 6K but I would either record internal or to a SSD. If you really need ProRes from the 6K FF you could record ProRes to a Ninja V but the 6K's only output 1080p. I usually recommend recording internally whenever possible.
Very interesting. I wonder if Blackmagic has claimed the FF has an increased dynamic range. Either way, what I saw is that the usable exposure window between both cameras is very similar, with the edge going to the G2 really only if you're trying to break it for the sake of doing so. Because of that, I think the FF version would be better for me as it opens up a world of lensing options. Great review brother!
Thanks Brian! Blackmagic states that both cameras have 13 stops of dynamic range so I don't think they are claiming the full frame has more. Both cameras have plenty of dynamic range though.
The underexposure banding issue on the 6K FF is a serious issue. It shouldn't be doing this. I just bought the 6K ff and I'm getting this issue in fairly low contrast shots. Seriously considering returning this camera...
Oh no! I expect to see some weirdness when I push the camera really hard with the over/under tests, but that's not good if you are seeing this in your normal shooting.
Yeah, not good. But your torture test was very telling ie the g2 exhibits no under exposure banding and theoretically the FF sensor should perform better@@Josh_Sattin
That's why Matteo Bertoli doesn't make a comparison between the FF and other Blackmagics: They're the same. Matteo is just taking advantage of the hype of the new camera to gain views on his channel.
Great comparison, Josh! Both images look really good, and definitely look like they'd be easy to intercut.
Thanks Mark! 👊
Very interesting! I did notice more detail in the shadows for your latitude tests as well as with most of the shots that were matched. Also, the color seems to be SLIGHTLY more true to life for the FF over the the s35 counterparts.
Thanks for the video!
I doubt it
Ping doubts it too@@AllThingsKen
Well just back from a pilgrimage to bh to get a bmpcc4k so i could use my lenses from gx85....mission accomplished. Certainly was hard with the g26k right there for a couple hundred more but the heart wants what the heart wants. 1 day of shooting in nyc. Some of the most beautiful footage Ive ever gotten.
The 'of two lands' guy channel just stood out hitting exactly the kind of image I was looking for whaddya know it seems to just sorta come out of the camera. Awesome.
(Sometimes and with my typical hack look still there but purdy!)
absolutely fantastic "lab test" of this camera. This is the kind of test I was waiting for, I deeply appreciate you making this, thank you :-) Shame on that the Cinema 6K doesn't have more dynamic range.
You are very welcome. Thanks for watching!
Subscribed! Very pleased to see Blackmagic enter the L-Mount Alliance. I'm going for the small and versatile (phase AF etc) S5IIx, but hope to do more videography and get a 6K some time (especially since it comes with DaVinci).
Thanks for the support!
For me where the 6k FF shines compared to the other blackmagic cameras is the glass options. For people with vintage lens collections or are big on anamorphic, it's much better than a 6k pro. is it straight up better for everyone? maybe not...but is it better for a niche creative filmmaker market...very much so.
Yeah the mirrorless mount has a lot more options for adapting lenses for sure!
“Niche creative filmmaker” spot on. This camera feels right for my beauty in visuals creative work.
Great test!!!
I have the P6K org and panasonic S5 org with some L mount lenses...but still I am not sold on the camera...and the G2 is really probably what I schould considere because my USB C port fried and I use sollely CFast Cards adaptor with SSD...
Thank you!
Josh,
Firstly, thank you. An intelligent and well put together piece.
I am a long time BM user and a big fan. I still have one of the lovely old URSA 4K studio cameras, but typically use the 6K units along with Canon kit for industrial/commercial work, which I've done for over 35 years with a lot of different hardware.
It really annoys me when people put out stuff saying Blackmagic/Canon kit is 'crap', and this is probably also true of last year's phones and other hardware.
I saw some plonker properly ranting on the other day about the fact that BM6K buttons were "on the back" and the camera "didn't have a flip screen" for his social media needs. Really?! Perhaps buy a different camera or use your phone mate!
Frankly, Blackmagic really changed the landscape in terms of the hardware available to independent film makers. Yes, they have had some trouble getting kit out following the "I'm really excited to tell you about our new..." launch events, but the images of their cameras has been amazing from day one - I used to use the 2.5K boxes when they first came out.
So, that all said - you're clearly a user and understand the issues. I was thinking about buying the new full frame 6K, but honestly, having watched your video and samples, it looks like the price drop on the 6K mkII makes this a much better option for most users unless you have a specific need for super wide images on your existing glass. Otherwise I'm not sure I'm seeing the advantage for most real-life users.
Good work: appreciated.
John M.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. Yeah I am very impressed with the images out of the Blackmagic cameras. As I stated in the video, I am personally happy with my 6K G2 purchase instead of the new 6K Full Frame. Thanks for watching!
You know what, you confirmed what I’ve been seeing. Wasn’t sure if I had a bad copy or my eyes were playing tricks on me. I definitely noticed more noise on the full frame at iso3200 and maybe even a stop below it as well.
I’m kind of torn now because at base iso the full frame version imo definitely looks better with the extra depth full frame gives. Also love that it’s more friendly with anamorphics. On the other hand I love shooting at some of those off base ISO’s and I know the more useable image straight out at ISO’s like 800 and 2500-3200 is important to me. Decisions. I can only keep one 🤔
It seems like there are always tradeoffs when making purchasing decisions and there is no right answer. Thanks for watching!
@@Josh_Sattin in this case though, it is a bit odd that the decision is if the increased noise of the bigger sensor is going to cut it. I can't think of any other examples where in a manufacturer's crop vs full frame products the signal to noise has decreased with a larger sensor size.
I agree Brian. Within a camera manufacturer's lineup, the full frame cameras often have better noise performance than the smaller sensors. But like I said in this video, the choice is yours if you want the full frame Blackmagic camera. There are tradeoffs.
I'm very surprised the OLPF didn't make an appearance in the image for the FF. I guess it would be more evident outdoors with more shadows in the frame.
Hey Josh, how does it compare to FX3? Can you please give an extended response? Thank you!
I haven't compared these two cameras so I can't give you a good answer. The FX3 has autofocus, IBIS and higher frame rates. Besides that I don't want to give an opinion before I compare them.
@@Josh_Sattin Then I guess we have to wait. :D Thanks man!
Even before this video I knew that there was mostly no difference, but what if add Magic booster to 6k, then it will be absolutely the same?
Your overexposure test was also a good pantomime for your expression when someone accidentally kicks your dog at the park.
Haha. I have several lights cranked up to do that test.
Do you think a sirui nightwalker with the r7 would be anything close to a bmpcc 6k g2 with sigma art 18-35 and 50-100? I have the sigmas already, but currently shoot on the r7 and r8 with rf 15-35 and 24-70. Love coloring in resolve and want to try braw, love the bigger screen as well, so the g2 really has my attention for creative projects.
Unfortunately I haven't used the Sirui Nightwalker lenses.
@@Josh_Sattin Any thoughts on the battle between g2 with existing sigma art lenses vs FF in s35 mode while saving for some full frame glass? The sale price on the FF has be all confused haha.
@@Lathrop_Media When I did my testing on the BM 6K FF I don't think I got a chance to test the S35 mode very much. So unfortunately I don't have an opinion.
One would have thought the Full frame having larger pixels would have had better low light. Pretty disappointing to see that much noise at 3200. I think this just shows how freaking good the 6k pocket is.
Both probably have noisy pixels but the P6K pixels are smaller?
Were you shooting in log on both of these cameras in the dynamic range test?
Yes I filmed everything in the "FILM" setting on both cameras.
Can you do the Fuji gfx 100 II
That would be a fun camera to test but I'm not sure I can get my hands on one.
I keep coming back to this comparison. Been on the fence for a new BM camera. Would love if you did a review solely on the Blackmagic G2, similar to your Canon r7 series of videos.
Glad you’re covering blackmagic cameras. I think they are some of the most underrated and overlooked bodies out there. They also seem like they fit your style of shooting very well.
The BMPCCs are note overlooked. They are moving up the ladder very fast.
I would literally buy this camera right now if it wasn't for that awful horizontal banding at 5:26 - It's there no matter what your iso is at, all you need to do is raise your shadows in a dark scene and your shot is ruined.
Thanks for your video.
I am surprised to see that the 6K Full Frame, even with bigger photosites, performs worse in low light than the G2.
In the dynamic range test I did notice a better response of details in the shadows, and at high altitudes it breaks a little less than the G2
Such a great comparison Josh! You have sold me on a Pocket again
Thanks Geoff! Yeah great value with the Pockets.
We need a 4k g2 or pro version for a smaller body.
So a 50mm lense on G2 would turn into a 78mm??
@Josh Sattin, between Blackmagic 6k G2 and Fujifilm XH2s, which one would you pick? I'm asking because I'm planning to upgrade from my Fujifilm XT-4.
Great job..One of the best comparison videos giving both cameras their proper due!
Thanks for watching!
I know you repeat that both images look almost identical truoght the video but, at least in my monitor, the two images look nothing alike. Overall the shots on the left have more contrast (as deeper shadows) and more saturation. In the faces the difference is night and day. Yes, they could easily be matched but they do not look "identical". I don't think you could cut between the two without corrections.
Yes, almost identical. I used the same grade on both and did not color match them so you could see the differences. As I said, it would not be tough to get these two cameras to match. You always have to do a little bit of work when matching two cameras, but these are very close. Much closer than any two cameras I've seen before that had different sensors.
At 4:55 at + 5 stops there is clear DR different. The G2 shadows have mostly going or gone black and there is more highlight clipping on the nose. Also there is a strange colour shift of yellow and red on the face.
Did the low light situation ever improve with firmware updates or something? It just makes no sense.
Just because a sensor is full frame doesn’t make it have better high ISO performance. These are not the same sensors. There are plenty of S35 sensors that have better high ISO performance than some full frame cameras.
The pocket 4K with metabones XL adapter is still the champ in my book. It has the fastest sensor readout, v90 SD cards run every resolution, and 4K is the most space efficient frame size and it’s the smallest body of them all. These newer bodies are kinda disappointing.
using a speed booster, ir cut filter, vnd's and a promist...you can kiss your image goodbye.
Josh !! My question is , when you shot prores those are huge files as you know. How much space do you have on your PC or do you use external SSD 20TB hard disk??
Most of the time I don't keep the files after I do my edit. The unedited files that I do keep I store them on my Synology NAS.
So in the DR/underexpose section, you mention the G2 as slightly better but that is an understatement, That banding is awful. That you for point ing me back here from your other video.
I mention the banding and you can clearly see it at -4 and -5 stops if you look at the image of the 6K FF. The 6K G2 does not show that banding when underexposed but in terms of overall dynamic range, they are similar.
If you are getting this banding in your shots then you are underexposing. I would recommend keeping your ISO at 400 or lower (lower than 400 for more shadow information) and increase the exposure to your sensor by using a wider aperture or adding light to your scene to capture a proper exposure.
@@Josh_Sattin Thanks for the tips, I'm doing all of the above and more. Been shooting for a while. I believe I may have a faulty camera or this sensor is just awful in low light. I will be testing a bit more to see if I send it back. Thanks your videos and for all the great tips!
You're welcome. I'm obviously trying to be helpful here and I have no way of knowing where people are at when they comment. I have a few videos about how to expose and grade log footage (Clog3, Slog3) which you might want to check out. I consider my main talking head shot to be "moody" but I still have to get proper exposure for the subject (me) using light and aperture. I use a gray card and false color with the Blackmagic cameras.
When I think of the low light performance of a camera, this has to do with the noise performance and color accuracy at higher ISOs, but it seems like you are near the base ISO here. So this to me is more about getting proper exposure because when you underexpose that's where you will see the banding. I hope this helps and thanks for watching the videos!
Hmm isn’t the g2 the full frame and the og 6k s35?
The Pocket 6K / 6K Pro / 6K G2 all have the same S35 sensor.
love!
Great job Black Magic on that color matching
Agreed!
Hey there
Great video!
I'm considering the 6K G2 over the 6K Pro and 6K FF, because the difference of the 6K Pro pretty much only is the built-in ND filter. The 6K FF is full-frame, which can be worth it, but not sure if that's a big leap worth the money.
Currently have a rigged out BMPCC 4k (with ext battery, matte box and nd filters, ext monitor etc.) and I am also not sure if it is worth the upgrade to the 6k G2. The 6k G2 has a crazy deal of €1500 and if I sell the BMPCC 4k, it is only €400 extra for me to upgrade..
Thank you!
Es que il y’a comptabilité de branche mon objectif sigma 30mm 1,4 pour mon canon250d a cette caméra blackmagic ?
Thank you for this comparison! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for.
I'm looking at this for live streaming and doing video work for our church. It's a bummer that the HDMI output is only 1080p for both cameras - it's fine for streaming, but it just seems to be an interesting limitation.
hey josh need some help. my R8 says "Camera control is limited when used as UVC/AUC device" and then won't power with my Vmount battery. I know you rigged it out with the same battery as me, SmallRig VB99. Please can you tell me the fix to this problem?
Nice one. Very interesting (and a bit surprising) how similar the images are side by side!
Thanks!
It wasn’t mentioned in this review, but the CC6k vs P6k comparison is reminiscent of the P6k vs P4k comparison: you lose light without getting an improvement in noise.
Say you need an f4.0 depth of field to keep the face in focus for an interview:
P4k at f2.0
P6k at f2.5
CC6k at f4.0
Ultimately you will need more light, possibly more expensive lights!
Granted, the P6k does have more resolution over the P4k. That’s the only real advantage.
Without C-AF, the CC6k cannot replace a mirrorless body. Without noticeably better noise, the CC6k cannot replace the P6k.
Then there is the "poor" version, a Bmpcc4k with the Metabones speedbooster T (for the OG pocket) 0.58x almost full frame (1.1 crop factor) beautiful combo
L F G ! ! !
Josh, I am confused. To my eye, in all the videos that I have seen on the web so far, the BMCC 6K FF produces better quality images than all the prior BMCCs . If you ask me to do a blind test choosing between the two (FF vs Pocket G2), I am sure I will perform with near 100% accuracy. In fact, at the beginning of your video, I spontaneously use my hands to block the info about which camera was which, just to have the chance to 'feel' the difference and to freely choose. And, in all the times, I was correct: the one on the left was the 6K FF and the on on the right the Pocket G2.
I think that what you tested, when comparing the overexposed and underexposed images, was technically 'latitude', not 'dynamic range'. For dynamic range you have to do the kind of quantitative tests that the guys at CineD, Gerald Undone, and others do (you have to measure signal to noise ratios at the extreme stops).
The problem with comparing cameras with just a couple of basic static scenes is that you don't get the 'feeling' of the image. I consider much more informative to show 'real' scenes side by side, hopefully as many different ones as you can (also including camera movements). This is the only way you can get a proper idea of the quality and character of an image, and I am surprised that nobody is doing that in a time of abundant camera tests on RUclips (CVP, CineD, Gerald Undone, they are not doing that either). Instead, all of them use charts and plastic artificial scenes that don't let you have a 'feeling' of the scene (this is not saying that you can't do the charts, but that you cannot jump into conclusions just by looking at the charts, you need real complex scenes to judge, and they cannot last just a copuple of seconds, the brain needs time). And you shouldn't judge this approach too subjective if you can guess which camera is which with more than 80% accuracy. Maybe you don't know why you prefer one over the other (it's difficult to put an experience into words), but if you can guess systematically and with good accuracy an image difference, this means you are pretty aware that there is a real difference.
I appreciate all the excellent work you do to educate people about camera technologies and how to use them, but in this case I have to deeply disagree with with your statement that the BMCC 6K FF produces basically identical images than the G2. I think that the just too simple design of your test was just not adequate to capture the real and significant differences between these two cameras in terms of image quality.
If your analysis contradicts most of the experiences of seeing real footage coming from the 6K FF (versus the G2), well, good scientific practice tells you that you have to revise your testing, instead of concluding that they produce basically identical images.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. I think a lot of what you are referring to as the feel of the image is the full frame look and comparing that with the image out of a S35 camera. This is completely subjective and there is no better, just personal preference. Please keep in mind that this video is labeled as a technical comparison. Most of the time I do go out and actually shoot with the camera in my first impressions videos. You can see that video here: ruclips.net/video/XhY_7PPl0Yo/видео.html
A lot of people are confused about how to test for dynamic range. In my opinion you should do it in three ways. The computer analytics that Gerald and CineD do to get the calculated stops of dynamic range based on a given signal to noise ratio, actual images of a high dynamic range scene and then a latitude test. CineD does both the computer testing and the latitude test whereas Gerald only does the computer analysis. I believe all three methods are important to get a sense of the dynamic range of a camera, but I don't have access to the computer analysis so I do the other two. There is also a lot of misunderstanding about what a latitude test is, why it is important and how it helps analyze the dynamic range of a sensor. I did talk about this stuff briefly in an older video: ruclips.net/video/drVQbkevoLY/видео.html
I have been technically testing and shooting with as many camera as possible over the last few years. I have spent a lot of time researching methods of testing, practicing, talking with other people and putting this all into the types of reviews that I make. I take this very seriously, and do my best to be as accurate and independent as possible to assist people in their purchasing decisions.
I stand by the results of these technical tests. On a technical level, these cameras are very similar and the 6K G2 even outperforms the 6K FF in some ways. BUT, if you like the FF image out of the 6K FF then that's the right camera for you. Often a lot of people don't like these types of technical testing videos because of a feeling they got or a purchase bias. I get that, but I will keep sharing my results in the best way possible that I can. I hope you found some value from this video.
Quite interesting. It does contradict what Matteo bertoli's "reviews" (though he didn't release any in depth review yet) saying the ff is way more capable in low light than the g2. Did you use the same aperture with both camera (I guess you did but well...) or did you have to stop down the ff to match the g2?
I kept the settings the same on both cameras for all of the tests. For the low light tests in particular, I set the exposure and then raise the ISO while adjusting the shutter speed to maintain the exposure.
@@Josh_Sattin thanks a lot! great in-depth review. So the ff and g2 had same aperture, same shutter speed, and same iso each time?! this would totally contradict other review I saw : Matteo bertoli said he had a hard time shooting in daylight with the ff because it gets way more light than the g2. In which case it should be able to get better performance in low light (I mean the ff could perform worst in its low light context but its low light context should be much darker than the g2's)
You're welcome. Yes, same settings on both cameras. Sensor size does not affect the exposure. It does affect other things though. I made this video a while ago that you should check out to learn more about crop sensors: ruclips.net/video/Qcdtq3N6yQI/видео.html
@@Josh_Sattin well sensor size doesn’t but pixel size should… but cool I’ll watch that as soon as I have a bit more time 🙃 thanks a lot for your answers 🙏🙏🙏
@@rometillier4409 No he's saying iso won't be impacted by sensor size, which is literally true. Even a micro four thirds camera will be at the same iso given the same F stop. The real difference is the quality relative to the iso. More FF cameras look amazing at 4000 iso than apsc cameras. But you'll never see a FF at 2500 iso while an APSC is at 4000. That's all he means.
I'm confused as to why there is no improvement on low light for fullframe. It makes no sense. This is second test I have seen that reached the same conclusion. I guess I will be keeping my 6kpro.
The 6K Full Frame has a different sensor than the 6K G2. Not every full frame camera has better low light performance than every S35 sensor. They are different sensors.
Hello, can I ask you something?
This is gonna sound ridiculous here, but if I was using the FF to film footage to add to a project majorly shot on the G2 (6k 16:9) and wanted to keep aspect ratios the same, would shooting at 6k DCI on the full frame be ideal?
Since you filmed most of the project in 16:9 I would probably shoot DCI on the 6K FF and just zoom in a bit in post to crop the edges. Just keep that cropping in mind when you are framing your shots on the 6K FF in DCI. You will lose a little bit of the edges.
Thank you for this, Josh!
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
What is the camera and lens you use for this blog? It looks really clear quality here
I mention it at the beginning of the video... Blackmagic 6K G2.
@@Josh_Sattin yeah, from the intro) and it's Sigma or Canon?☺️
@@NatLifeSounds Sigma 18-35
How does the 6k G2 compare to the FX30.
BH Photo has them at almost the identical cost and they seem to target similar users.
They might be a similar price, but they are intended for very different users. The 6K G2 is much more of a cinema camera and will have a better image but be slower to use. The FX30 has things like autofocus and stabilization.
Thanks
Disagree with your analysis of dynamic range. I get 16+ stops of DR in post for my pocket 6k pro. Unless you mean that this is the DR you get without any post work, then yes I agree with the 13 stops
I didn't measure the actual number of stops of dynamic range and report on that. I mentioned in this video that Blackmagic lists both cameras as having 13 stops of dynamic range on their website. I just compared the two cameras to each other in this video.
@@Josh_Sattin Yeah, makes sense. I have made tests with my camera, and at ISO 800 I get 9.3 stops above middle grey when grading and pushing the image. My personal take is that Blackmagic is being too conservative with their DR statements
Ping so confused please elaborate??@@leebrandt8597
Do you think you’ll do another video or test of the r6 mark ii 6k raw ? Would you recommend buying the ninja v to use the 6k ? Thanks
I won't be doing any future tests on the R6II raw since I don't have that camera and I tested what I needed to test. You could certainly uses a Ninja V as monitor on the 6K but I would either record internal or to a SSD. If you really need ProRes from the 6K FF you could record ProRes to a Ninja V but the 6K's only output 1080p. I usually recommend recording internally whenever possible.
@@Josh_Sattin thanks Josh
@@sebastianunited1397 You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Very interesting. I wonder if Blackmagic has claimed the FF has an increased dynamic range. Either way, what I saw is that the usable exposure window between both cameras is very similar, with the edge going to the G2 really only if you're trying to break it for the sake of doing so. Because of that, I think the FF version would be better for me as it opens up a world of lensing options. Great review brother!
Thanks Brian! Blackmagic states that both cameras have 13 stops of dynamic range so I don't think they are claiming the full frame has more. Both cameras have plenty of dynamic range though.
The underexposure banding issue on the 6K FF is a serious issue. It shouldn't be doing this. I just bought the 6K ff and I'm getting this issue in fairly low contrast shots. Seriously considering returning this camera...
Oh no! I expect to see some weirdness when I push the camera really hard with the over/under tests, but that's not good if you are seeing this in your normal shooting.
Yeah, not good. But your torture test was very telling ie the g2 exhibits no under exposure banding and theoretically the FF sensor should perform better@@Josh_Sattin
I saw a little bit of it in my test on the 6K G2 at 5 stops under, but it wasn't as severe as it was on the 6K FF.
Got it. But what we're seeing on the FF is not normal. We've seen this before with BM and usually they put out a firmware fix@@Josh_Sattin
I hope they can fix it with a firmware update. That would be great. I can only test and report how the camera operates right now.
Were you on the latest firmware?
Yes I updated both cameras prior to doing the tests. 6K G2 is on 8.1 and 6K FF is on 8.3.2
Thanks for doing these tests man 👍
@@SeanvanBerlo You are very welcome. Thanks for watching the video!
You are reviewing the black magic but your studio is to dark
try cutting the intro.
That's why Matteo Bertoli doesn't make a comparison between the FF and other Blackmagics: They're the same. Matteo is just taking advantage of the hype of the new camera to gain views on his channel.
I think it’s best if you just give others the benefit of doubt. Unless Matteo personally disclosed it to you, you can’t know his intentions.