It's funny how The Greater Will represents order, but yet it created a chaotic world. And the Frenzied Flame represents chaos, but yet it wants to burn everything into one, which is perfect order.
It didn't create a chaotic world. People did. It granted the Elden Ring world the Elden Ring to control the primordial chaos but apparently nothing more. It's not the Greater Will that created the flaws in Placidusaxs, Hornsents, or Marika's eras.
@@specialnewb9821 It was The Greater Will fracturing The One Great that lead to the creation of life and the universe, which is almost always in a state of chaos.
@@sanakht8888 I mean, the way that guy wrote it, it sounded exactly like christian apologia: "it's not the god that's evil, people have free will and that's why bad things happen". I usually don't see a lot of Frenzy apologists of the same kind, they're memes more often than not. Personally, I think the Greater Will and Flame of Frenzy are one and the same, or at least aspects of the same being, much like Marika and Radagon.
Around 24 3/4 mins, you that Metyr seems healthy and fine and perfectly able to birth fingers, but her womb is maimed and ripped open. I forget how this idea got into my head, but it seems like she can’t birth capital F Fingers like the two in the round table and can only birth the crab fingers, which are a lot weaker. The Fingers can’t even be harmed with normal weapons, not the case for the smaller guys. She’s defective at this point and can no longer produce new angels for her God, just cheap imitations. The Nox were punished for a cardinal sin and doomed to live underground for it. They happened to create the Finger Slayer Blade. Maiming the closest thing to the Greater Will and making it useless seems pretty bad to me.
I did think of this when creating the theory,. The reason why I did not mention/adjust for this is because I think there is a lack of evidence either way. Yes the womb she births from looks damaged, but since we do not have a reference, this could actually just be what it looks like. As for birthing two fingers vs finger creepers, Ymir implies that Metyr was damaged before she birthed the fingers that guided Marika & the ones in the LB, so I'm inclined to believe that she can birth creepers on command but maybe Two Finger births take longer, there is also the possibility that Two Fingers are created from humans (Finger Mimic & Finger Print Nostrum) so if that were the case it could explain why she can't just birth Two Fingers. I have been thinking about the Nox recently, because they confuse me. They have links to the Astrologers, Carians and the Numen so I've been trying to figure them out. That includes the Finger Slayer Blade. It is said that "This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City and symbolizes its downfall." However, it doesn't explicitly say what the act was. It says the blade was said to be born of a corpse, which I think is confirmed by the Sacred Relic Sword as they are identical in form minus the Finger Slayer Blade being incomplete. So the treasonous act could be either the creation of the blade from a previous god, or that it was used on a vassal of the GW, both could explain why it is blood drenched but both are equally possible so I can't draw an exact conclusion on that.
The abyssal woods are called that because it’s basically in an abyss in the land of shadow. No one who goes in comes out bc of the lanterns, there are only a few secret ways of getting there, and they are visibly below the rest of the map.
The way I interpret Metyr's microcosm is that it's a sort of wormhole to a space that is immediately accessible to the Greater Will. Maybe not even a wormhole, but instead the microcosm is literally that part of space, just miniaturized by magic. This would mean that Metyr could interact with the space via her microcosm directly and the Greater Will would be able to see that change immediately, which is the only feasible means of communication between them. Why the only feasible means of communication? I believe that ER's space is mostly similar to ours in the real world, just with added fantasy elements. This means when the Elden Ring, Elden Beast, Metyr and all the malformed beasts like Astel arrived to the Lands Between on stars, it means they most likely came from hundreds, if not thousands or millions of lightyears away. This means that even if Metyr was able to send and recieve light signals, they would take that many years to reach the recipient. Metyr would then transmit this information to the Fingers. How? Via the tubes we can see above her arena. In Ymir's questline, he sends us to the different Finger ruins, where we blow into a big stone horn (no clue what the proper name is). This produces a sound and we are given ancient, legendary talismans. I believe this is how the inhabitants of the Lands Between communicated with Metyr. And that this is the same principle how Metyr communicates with the fingers. If you look at the fingers, they sort of resemble a tuning fork, which resonates with certain frequencies. The sound or waves used for their communication would be at that frequency. This would explain how they can transmit information even withou a mouth, eyes or ears, their bodies are literal antennas. And then there are the different abyss/void ratios in Metyr's and Ymir's microcosms - what could have happened was the fact that maybe a lot more time has passed since Metyr arrived to the Lands Between, not 10,000 - 20,000 years which is roughly the recorded history and events we can learn about from the game, but millions, if not billions. This is more than enough time for space expansion to be a factor. On a large enough scale, the space expands at a faster speed than the speed of light. (Imagine a toy car driving on an impossibly large balloon that starts swelling up and never stops swelling, which means the car will get stranded between its starting point and the target destination once the speed of swelling surpasses the car's maximum speed.) This could be why Metyr lost contact with the Greater Will. The space which is shared/linked with the microcosm simply drifted too far from the Greater Will, or maybe Greater Will drifted too far from it, and once they got separated by a long enough distance, not even information sent at the speed of light would reach that microcosm space and vice versa. I hope I was able to make at least some sense of what I mean.
Totally agree! I think the Cipher the Two fingers uses is supposed to hit to us about how long light takes to trave, IE their communication takes a while for long distances. A tuning fork for the Fingers isa neat idea, I also had thought about them as antennas.
If Metyr is a star and the primordial current is dark matter, the greater will could be the cosmic microwave background in the same vein. The CMB is essentially a picture of the big bang, and we can't see any light that has moved past it(space expansion and light in spacetime means that what we see in the CMB is essentially the max distance light we can see. There's things way out past it we'll never see.) If Metyr was "reading" the signs of the CMB, there's essentially a limit on what's there to be seen, so the messages would stop.
@@cpt_micky Ymir pretty much described the big bang to us in one of his lines, which I think is the division of the One Great Hyetta tells us about. So the CMB would be that division. I still rather think that if there is an actual scientific reason behind the disappearance of the Greater Will, it's the expansion. However, that seems too open ended even for Fromsoft, so even if it is something that "mundane" (for a Fromsoft game), there is most likely something else we're missing
@@GameboySR Ye I agree with you that the greater will is unreachable due to the expansion of space, what im essentially positing is that the reason for that is that whatever cosmic being the greater will is, be it the universe itself, the big bang given name, the emptiness of space, or an incomprehensibly large black hole at the center of the universe, its past the CMB, and the CMB, being a picture of the big bang, would make sense as the "messages" received by metyr. You're right though, it's intended to be open ended with no true correct answer. I just like the fusion of astronomy with these divine entities :3
This would explain the unspoken "terrible thing" Marika learned about the Greater Will. Maybe she wanted to destroy the Elden Ring in an attempt to save the world from the abyss.
I don't personally believe the Greater Will is broken, but I really like this theory. One thing that's important is understanding how Metyr became broken. I know the popular theory is that she was attacked by the Nox with the Finger Slayer Blade, but I personally think she in some way shape or form found despair or chaos and gave birth to the Three Fingers hence why she's so broken now. I believe this because of the finger ruins as well as her own boss room having malformed fingers that have the same prints as the Three Fingers. I also believe this because of the Abyss Woods through 2 prime examples. The first being that to our knowledge there was just 1 Aging Untouchable and that that one got Midra and then the other 5 Aging Untouchables would one day spawn as well. Plus there are covered dead fingers/finger eggs in Midra's Manse which suggests to me that they did something they shouldn't have. One thing I never considered until watching this video though was the true nature of The Crucible. Like everyone else I believed the Crucible was a greater being similar to the Greater Will or perhaps even the shell of The One Great. After watching this though honestly I think The Crucible is the lifeforce/faith version of The Primeval Current which covers magic/intelligence. The Crucible being for living normal creatures meanwhile The Primeval Current being for The Stars. So thanks for helping me flesh out my thoughts more regardless if our opinions exactly match up 🙏🏻🌟
This makes so much sense on so many levels. It plays to the absolute horror of Marikas story. I believe Marikas one wish (her goal as a god and the wish she made to the "grand mother") was to save the people she choses from the horrors she went through. To "be a mother" like Ymir, to shelter her chosen children with her power. But to only find that the entire world around you is just a matter of time before it's all gone, to know all your efforts and the promises metyr I believe made to Marika were lies... That's why she was unsound from the start, because her goal was never attainable. It makes The Lands Between feel like this cosmic limbo. She just tried to hold it still, frozen in time and space. But that is stagnation, kagare. Making it ironic even more so that everyone is actually living in death, they just don't know it yet.
This is the first lore video linking the greater will to a black hole, which i think is strongly implied by both the microcosm and ymirs hat. Also interesting is the parallel between the black abyss surrounded by gold of the microcosm and the black center that the lord of frenzied flame's head becomes
This theory just makes too much sense. I'll look forward to seeing how other loretubers can make more lore connections thanks to this video's information.
The microcosms look like eyes, too, which thematically relates to the Vision that guides Metyr, and Marika (vessel for the Vision). Personally, I think the act of SEEING allows the ingress of a god so it, or its will, can inhabit the witness. This explains why Lusat and Azur both became inhabited by glintstone from the Primeval Current. This also explains why so many factions conspiring against the Greater Will cover their eyes (Nox and the mirror helm of Iji). To see a god is to fall under its influence.
"Knowledge begins with the recognition of one's ignorance. The realization that the search for knowledge is unending. But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear. At the end that should not be."
After the DLC, I'm more confused about Ranni's fingers than I was before. Prior to the DLC I actually had a video going over a theory that Marika created the fingers (hard flop theory) but knowing that Metyr births fingers and every single set looks the same except Ranni's is throwing me off.
@@Dekuzekanother thing is that her 2 fingers seem to be much larger than any other pair of fingers, also it looks like it crashed from the sky? Almost like it fell from the dark moon that you can only see from the moonlight alter and maybe ranni’s tower. We know now that they’re birthed, not sent from the sky, so where did hers come from?
@@Rubi1007 MAYBE Rannis fingers weren't from Metyr. They were a sister. They would have grown up into a pure Mother and herald of a Neo Greater Will order. But Ranni didn't want that. An Order where the Moon and Stars are forcibly partnered to it and she is the puppet/anchor that binds them. In desperation to avoid usurpation by Frenzy its like the Greater Will sent a letter home to its illigitimate child, demanding help and acuiescence because hes dying. "Heres some attention you are empyrean so special, look grace is restored to the Tarnished and here are some new fingers. I totally care about you guys, please I just need a kidney" Ranni was like please die so this family you ruined can move on. Honestly the whole Greater Will Order family drama is a Southern Gothic.
@@Rubi1007I believe it is similar to how Messimer changes after loosing grace. Ranni's fingers look more like the fingers in Metyr's arena, they are blue from the moon's influence. The 2 fingers are connected to Ranni's soul, so when she killed her body and lost grace, my guess is the fingers did too - converting them back to a more alien look.
@@Rubi1007 She had fingers not every set of fingers is the same, like for example three fingers and finger creepers that she births. Her fingers were sealed on the moon along with her Great rune that she got during shattering. That's why we need to defeat Radahann to continue her quest as both her fingers that she somehow managed to trap them were held by him.
The theory that the brick wall every method of inquiry hits is evidence of the greater will dying is fantastic especially tying what Lusat and Azure saw into it. It's the eerie silence of the fermi paradox for an unquantifable being is fantastic. Maybe the world it's set in is in a outer wilds situation where the end has evidence it's happening it just hasn't hit us yet.
Terrific video. I find the cosmic origin story the most fascinating aspect of the lore and you meticulously explained your interpretation of it. The paralels with Dark Souls themes are also more apparent. Some beautiful shots of the game in your video as well!
There are a lot of great observations and ideas in this theory. But after seeing all this I can't help but go back to an old theory I use to believe, the Frenzy Flame acts on behalf of the Greater Will. It was born out of my confusion about the Two Fingers being confused about how to deal with the thorns but the 3 Fingers not only knew to use the Forge but also gave you the means to do it on your own. It felt like the 3 Fingers had more up-to-date info than the 2 Fingers. I figured the Greater Will was "correcting its mistake." I gave up on it because I think Ymir and the 3fingers are just propagandists for alien gods (Sparked by noticing the Greater Will in the Microcosms just like you did but I then associated the Greater Will to the Black Moon of the NumenNox)but this video resparks my like of the idea. Rather than witnessing the death of the Greater Will, they witnessed the abyss (The Greater Will) destroying its creation. The abyss is still at the heart of Metyr's microcosm and the Lord of Frenied Flames head becomes a burning Microcosm. The Frenzied Flame is the eraser on its cosmic pencil. Random aside: Metyr was the first thing the Greater Will sent to the world. Are we assuming the old gods have fallen at this point? It's funny to think the Greater Will sent a bug to a planet of super giants.
A few things I want to point out. I think the Three Fingers are used as a way for the Frenzied Flame to lower the guard of the potential lord. As many would already be accustomed to the Two Fingers, the Three Fingers would be more trustworthy. However, I don't think they are under the control of the GW, because Hyetta specifically says that the Greater Will is separated from the FF/Three Fingers, and that it made a mistake. The FF & GW are referenced a few times in game as separate entities. A quick call out about the Three Fingers knowing about our path. It's not the fingers that is aware of the burning of the erdtree, it's Shabriri, the Three Fingers don't seem to have any realy guiding purpose other than to brand a Lord of Frenzied Flame. To answer your question about when Metyr was sent down, it was likely before or during the time of the dragons as we can see the Elden ring in Farum Azula, and we know that the ER/EB came after Metyr. However I don't know beyond that.
@@Dekuzek I guess to clarify where I misspoke. Sorry about that I should be more clear. I don't think the Greater Will is literally the Frenzied Flame/3 Fingers. I think that the Frenzied Flame and all attached to it are vassals to the Greater Will, the way it sent Metyr to prepare the way and later the Elden Beast to preside over order, it sent Frenzy to wipe away its mistakes. When I say the 3finger knew the way, I was again misspeaking and being lazy. I take that whole operation: The Frenzied Flame, the 3fingers, Shabriri, Hyetta, and even Nanaya all as one collective TEAM. I realize it is inaccurate, I more so mean to imply the Frenzied collective provide a plan (Shabriri tells us) and possess the means(3fingers give us the fire) to burn the Erdtree. All of that stays within the bounds of Frenzy. They seem better equipped internally for this situation. But all that is to say: Frenzy is separate from the Greater Will, it is a tool the Greater Will dispatched. Thus we can speak on them separately but I conjecture their agendas are aligned. I don't know what the 3fingers deal is. While we can say "yeah they appoint a frenzy lord" we then are confronted with Midra. Midra shows no signs of finger burns on his body yet he definitely ascends in the fight with us. He succumbs to despair before pulling his own head off allowing Frenzy to take the wheel. But in the FF ending for us we're not bummed, we just likely had a personal peak moment yet somehow we are overcome with Frenzy. Rather than giving us yellow eyes we should have gotten the flame head from the 3fingers. Though I've seen it suggested we die for real at the forge and it is the FF that drives us around after that into the ending. With regards to Metyr, yeah I figure it was around then but it was just more so the funny thought of a Tarantula with the power of a black hole trying to preach about a space god to giants. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Keep making the great videos!
I have always loved the Frenzied Flame and anything that is touched by it. The ost that we got in SotE for our boss musick as its Lord/Lady is phenomenal. You got great cinematic views in the video too.
the observation you made on the fleeting microcosm vs microcosm with regards to the abyss being larger and the stars being gone is small but so god damn important. that is a very deliberate detail that gives tremendous insight into this world's story, a detail that finally gives us somewhat of a big picture view of this whole puzzle we've all been piecing together for 2 years. great vid
Your talk about the microcosm reminds me of that color theory elden ring video. In it, gold is described as having the power to delineate, separate, and hold in order. Fitting antitheses to the chaos (the old definition of things being indiscernible) of the one great. So when her microcosm breaks, and the ring is gone, it is truly and plainly shown that Metyr's own parent is gone, and the rickety golden order as we see it is all a rigging to hold the world in place.
Physicist here. You NAILED IT. When you brought up Metyr's microcosm, it all clicked for me. -- I have always known about how the chaos flame ending was the parallel to the heat death of the universe. It is the end of the universe as we know it, since when energy transfers into heat, it kinda never transfers back. Entropy is always the byproduct of all actions, so it is inevitable, but the flame of frenzy ending simply accelerates all of that to a now, which will be violent by necessity. A burning to turn everything into particles perpetually bouncing around, never to recombine again, in temperature equilibrium, as a whole as one. -- HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART: The microcosm is not just a community, it's a UNIVERSE. The fleeting microcosm spell creates entire local universes, that come into existence and die in a few seconds. Time within that microcosm is a different construct, guided by entropy itself, which means that what for us was a few seconds, was an eternity in there. -- Metyr received messages from the greater will, the greater will that she interpreted through the microcosm in her possession. After all, our universe is likely just a microcosm itself, so what different is a 'greater will' there than here? But like you pointed out, that microcosm burned out. It already experienced its heat death, possibly a flame of frenzy end (perhaps the one that inspired the three fingers). And so Metyr was broken because the 'greater will' that created her never spoke to her, instead Metyr witnessed the greater will through her own microcosm, and it died. The universe ended, leaving us 'stranded', unguided, as we exist within our own microcosm forever severed from the whatever else exists beyond it. -- By killing Metyr, we also destroyed that universe, not from within from outside. We cast into oblivion that which was sacred to the two fingers, the roundtable, history, the gods, in the blink of an eye, like it was nothing. -- The Greater Will itself might have never existed. It may have been subject to metyr's interpretation, but never independent from it, making it neither here nor there. holy shit
Hey! Thanks for the feedback, glad to know I represented it accurately. I'm a recreational learner, just because of how fascinating space is but it's quite complex so I'm happy I wasn't too far off base.
Except you didn't kill Metyr when you kill her sibling the elden beast it says God Slain unfortunately it's technically not dead as the Elden Ring is the Elden Beast as EB is just a physical manifestation of the ring. Also when you defeat her she uses her Microcosm to escape.
Thanks! I like the idea of laying out the in-game path as best as I can. I find it gives that nostalgic feeling of discovery I got when I first played.
Loved this. I really like the idea that the frenzied flame is like a black hole at its centre, the fire like the theorized heat emmited by such a phenominum. Really amazing job. Tying in the glintstone origins and lusat and so also very spookey and strangely fitting
Wow it really amazed me when hearing sorceress Sellen introducing one of the sorcery principles that golden power comes from ancient life, while blue glinstone power originates from residual power, thus from life power within the stars...
Your last two videos have been very well done. I like that you’re sharing additional little known information with your own interpretation of the lore, not just repeating the well known finds of the community and presenting it as you found it all on your own.
Thank you! I think some theory videos lose the plot by just dumping a bunch of info without placing a narrative/timeline (like I did in my earlier videos) so I try to show/explain the mindset and learning experience through my videos! Glad you enjoyed the recent ones!
All is destined to fade. To be both forgotten and past. That is the ring. That the ash and spirits serves new life and beyond. It is the turning of the great karmic wheel. None can escape it: Destined death. A part of the elden ring itself, removed.
I feel like you've missed one key detail regarding Count Ymir. Specifically the High Priest Hat. It says "The hat of Count Ymir, High Priest. The circular design at the top represents the Greater Will and its lightless abyss, imparting increased intelligence and arcane to the wearer." It sounds like the Lightless Abyss IS the Greater Will (Or a part of it) and not it after its death. And what Lusat and Azur saw was likely the Greater Will's actions upon the cosmos. This, to me, feels like its taking inspiration from Theoretical Physics. Specifically regarding the concepts of the Big Bang (which the One Great was) and the Big Crunch (which is what the Lightless Abyss is in the form of an all-consuming black hole if we assume the last moments of a star cluster was caused by the same darkness that Azur saw).
Yeah, I think it's definitely accurate to think along the lines that the Greater Will is either the great beyond itself (space/the void) or some type of cosmic being that resides there in a non-traditional kind of existence, maybe literally a sentient portion of that space, assuming it's not just some sort of wise megabeast which I could also seem them doing.
Man that was a beautiful video, you brought up so much that I had considered when I was playing my first time and it was amazing. The scientific philosophies and astronomy used in elden ring are what made it my second favorite of all of the souls games and you bringing up the microcosm and the abyss with metyr was so good. When I learned for the first time that the two fingers were basically frantically giving orders it like broke my brain because of the base game telling me for 2 years about how important they were lol.
This may be one of the best videos I've ever seen, no joke. Your entire theory is so well researched and makes so much sense, and just the story you portrayed built some tears up. Amazing work.
A great video, I genuinely love it. After following the lore content since the very beginning this video contains what's been going on in my head practically one to one which can not be said with a lot of way more popular channels talking bollocs (which is the main fun of it all, to speculate. I mean absolutely no offence to the guys 😀). Yet again, great job. I do believe thou that Greater Will might still be okay but just wishes the world to come back to the state from beyond the rupture and to fix the mistake that it's made which caused all the afflictions and curses. That ie why the two fingers are being so withered and the three fingers are so clearly depicted to be holding the power to literally melt it all away. That is the power granted by the Greater Will. Regards ♥️
I think the nox injured metyr with the fingerslayer blade. Which is was caused the greater will to banish then underground. The damage of the blade couldve severed a connection to the greater will
The outer gods in this game I believe are living beings that take the shape of celestial objects like ranni and rellana and their moons. What I think Lusat witnessed was the death of the greater will. I see you came to the same conclusion I’m glad I watched before commenting lol. However I don’t necessarily agree that it was the frenzied flame that caused this. There are many outer gods fighting for control over the lands between. Life bearing planets are rare, so there is competition over them. I don’t think that the greater will and chaos are the only 2 outer gods to consider in this silent war that is happening behind the scenes. They aren’t necessarily the top dogs of the cosmos they just have more power over this specific planet within the timeline we know about. I think there’s a deeper story still, that hopefully one day will be told in the form of ER 2 and 3 lol. This was a super good video you definitely earned my like and subscribe
Fantastic video! I really liked your comparison of Metyr’s microcosm with the simulacrum cast by the staff, seeing the latter as a snapshot of the moment the Greater Will disappears into the lightless Abyss. Entropy is the fundamental law of the universe.
This is an excellent lore video. I'm surprised how similar your conclusions are with the ones I came to and I hope this video explodes across the lore community. The one caveat you mentioned about the failed meteor taking the form of a spiral really resonates with the spira incantation specifically stating the spiral is a "normalized" crucible. While I'm not sold on the "God is dead" canon, I think it is a very legitimate and strong contender for what's actually going on. There are some context stuff I think could attach to these theories too. The big one is with Ymir. One key thing people aren't noting about Ymir is he oversees the children of the Night. These elements are clearly related to Noxian ideology and symbolism and I think are meant to describe Ymir's origin, The Eternal City. Ymir's gear specifically says he once worshipped the moon but changed that as the moon is merely the closest celestial object. The Nox also worshipped the moon and the connection between Carians and Nox are extremely obvious. My insane speculation is Ymir, once losing his child, abandoned and betrayed the Nox to worship the Greater Will in hopes he could birth anew or have his son resurrected. The information and knowledge he gained from Metyr may have been a result of Ymir divulging the truth about the Noxian heresies to prove his loyalty. The connection between the finger slayer blade, Metyr being broken, and her obviously damaged womb are WAY too on the nose. The Greater Will doesn't divine betrayal, it learns of it after the fact. There's a lot more meat on this bone, but I also want to mention why I think God may not be dead and it involves things you did and did not mention. In the Elden Beast fight, when you are physically close to and directly observing the vessel of the Elden Ring, you see tons of different Erdtrees in the background. Now this is ambiguous. Is it just other players, other dimensions, or multiple planets that also have Erdtrees? I think if we're being consistent with cosmology and the War between the GW and Frenzy Flame, it's likely that this is a battle taking place on many fronts at the same time. Multiple worlds having their crucible's arrested by order while the Chaos Flame has to wait for order to form before it can actively destroy it. Causality to regression. The justification is that the primeval current, Ranni and the nox share something in common. Punishment or risk for intelligence. Reaching too high into intelligence seems to be caused for punishment. I think the primeval current is like the Cosmic Background Radiation of the big bang and seeing that actual history is something the Greater Will would want to punish. Seeing how the Great One was split proves the Greater Will's legacy and dynasty as fraudulent so it makes sense it would punish intelligence. Astel's seemingly sent to punish the Nox. Sellen, Azur and Lusat immobilized. Ranni has to go through insane loops and barriers due to her intelligence to even find a potential path. I think intelligence is the key to giving away the GW and so these measures are precautionary. If the GW tithes power and energy through faith/worship, intelligence is unnecessary and counterintuitive to that goal. Considering it's waging a war lacks omniscience, being disconnected from Metyr makes sense the lands would imagine they're abandoned. If the GW was actually dead, Ymir would probably have taken his own life rather than do all these motions to become the NEW mother.
There's one other thing I would also like to point out, specifically the soundtrack that plays when fighting Metyr. The 2nd phase specifically, its not completely music but more or less a very strange vibration or groaning sound throughout. In actuality, it's heavily based off of the first sound recordings of an actual black hole. So theres a lot more symbology of the Greater Will and a Black Hole even down to the music. However... I am not sure if the Black Hole wouldve consumed the Greater Will. Moreover, I am wanting to believe it's part of it. Super Massive Black Holes are at the centers of our universe, and are what keep the galaxies spinning and preventing hs from flying apart. A sort of balance, or order, that keeps everything in check on a cosmic level.
OHHHHH. So if The One Great represents before the Big Bang, then The Outer Will represents space itself, because space is the abyss, yet is the only thing we can see light inside of. EDIT: Crazy good vid man
Lovely theory. The relatioship between Greater Will and Yelough (I like call Outer God of Frenzied Flame like that) is pretty stronger and more real enemies that GW and Rot or Flame of Ruin. Both are black circles, both uses Yellow/Golden, both uses Fingers, and while Rot or others are tollerated (By Fingers and Melina, as they chose Malenia as Empyrean and Melina is ok even with Dungeater ending) everyone, even Hornsent, hates Frenzied.
I think something to be noted is that fingers we meet are not really "real" but a memory of them. So any words or beliefs would only be contemporary in someway from the moment of their creation. We see this with the blacksmith creating a weapon to kill a god. But that weapon somehow already had a history with GEQ.
I believe the Empyreans were chosen on the basis of being new potential matriarchs. All Empyreans are women or have feminine features and characteristics. Ranni, Malenia and Miquella are all women/feminine characters. I had this idea since the game was released. I often wondered why Godwyn wasn’t chosen as a candidate to succeed Marika. If he was so loved by the people and the royals why wasn’t he chosen by the Fingers? Why weren’t Radahn or Rykard chosen to be Empyreans? The Fingers value motherhood as a requisite for authority since they do come from Metyr, the Mother of Fingers who is, in turn, a daughter of the Greater Will, the Mother of All Mothers. Motherhood and femininity have always coincided with a grand void, the abyss of the womb, in many cultures and philosophies all throughout history. Elden Ring is a game about motherhood and the psychological and philosophical aspects of it, while Bloodborne was more keenly focused on the visceral aspect of womanhood and motherhood. We can see this aspect of motherhood being the foundation of something in so many characters and items in the game: the mother of truth, Philia the new mother of all Albinaurics in Latenna’s quest, the giant ants which are bugs with a matriarchal society, the Erdtree itself meaning Earth Tree/Mother Tree and even Malenia and the children of Rot, a mother that doesn't embrace her children. Ymir says it himself: to set things right “we need a new mother, a true mother” to tell us what to do. It’s like growing up is out of the question. We need to be guided by a celestial parent, a new primordial mother that knows all and has a clear plan for all of us. I like that in Ranni’s quest she absolutely rejects it all. We are mature enough to guide ourselves, we don’t need to be guided, we can make our choices freely and can live with the consequences. The Greater Will might be long gone, but that’s okay. Things will change. Our parents will die one day and won’t be there for us to ask for council or help. We need to grow up and walk our own paths which many times feel like a very dark and cold journey but that’s fine. We can do it.
Hmm it seems to fit... I prescribe to this idea... One thing that never quite fit in elden ring for me is, why does radahn go to the effort of suspending fate by halting the stars, perhaps radahn is trying to stop the death of everything and winning?
He held back the cleaning crew and any other travelers sent to the lands between. So I think your interpretation was on the money. Even with his faculties gone and he's just a feral beast he's still subconsciously holding them back. He had to be convinced it was the end of the world or why else did he fight so fiercely?
I don't think that greater will totally dissappeared, more like The one Great "parts" started to divide even further than before, "The Cosmic influence" started to have lesser impact on the world. Also most people seems to forget that Fingers and Greater Will literally operates on "Faith" the weaker faith, the weaker the power it grants
30:00 Magic current is excess energy from The Greater Will dying? Amazing conclusion, yet it makes perfect sense when examining the interstellar symbolism. 👏
2 things that really help this video. ~The Moon of Nokstella talisman's item description says the Black Moon was the guide of countless stars. ~ Radahn burns with the a yellow/gold fire in the 2019 trailer for some mysterious reason.
Frenzied flame ending is best ending. And am I the only one who doesn't believe Melina when she talks about how there are still "Births" and that live is still precious, when everything and everyone looks like they have existed for untold millennia, and we never once witness any children or infants with any of the humanoids. We are told about the births, but never shown any evidence of them, just like how we are never truly shown how they reincarnate, since they can't technically die. The Lands Between are the epitome of Stagnation and all its ills. Its very existence is an affront to nature. Best if its all just burned away so something better can come along with the next big bang.
Stagnation leads to rot.... Also 'born' doesn't just imply babies, but new life, such as for example life in death (those who live in death)... which even the great goldmask didn't see as value-less... to mindlessly hunt, but instead worthy of study as new life and adaptation to the theft of death. When destined death was first removed from the elden ring, the erdtree sap stopped flowing, the age of plenty ended. Those erdtree buried werent fully able to be 'reborn'. (Ghostflame rituals now a thing of a previous age) but even ghostflame (per band of hawk descriptions) was through burning each other for fuel. The cycle continues Even though its Elden Ring, it's all still specifically about 'Souls,' and the power of them... every form of magic and birth, death, and life links to it... ie. Glintstone, black flame, ghost flame, the erdtree as a burial place feeding on the souls of the entombed to birth them again.... The cycle continues. All about SOULS. (The one great fractured, Into many things... including specifically mentioned 'souls')
The beauty of the endings in my interpretation is that the game allows you to see the world, engage with its people, and now with the DLC we see it's history. After you see everything that came before, the cruelty, the death and destruction, the selfishness and the suffering, it asks you what path you think is best. You have a choice between destroying the world if you find the suffering to great, or you can try to choose a path that provides a better life for those who remain. I personally think that the only 'bad' ending is the Age of Fracture. Where you choose to just let the world fester as it was. Every other ending is subjectively 'good' depending on your perspectives on the game.
One small thing ive wondered for a while, not a concrete theory by any means but im throwing my two cents out there. Given the themes of repeating cycles and simulacra, i couldn't help but spot this parallel: Greater Will (Marika) fractures (shatters) the One Great (Elden Ring) And if the GW imprisoned Marika via the Elden Beast, then possibly the reason the GW "abandoned" the Lands Between is that it was in fact imprisoned, by its own greater will equivalent of some higher plane.
You should make another video that delves into the philosophical implications of the people in the Lands Between no longer having a guiding force, akin to no longer having a mother kinda. The fear of responsibility to dictate one’s destiny and how some will either take the burden of responsibility in not only guiding themselves but the others who forfeit this new freedom of choice to a replacing figure of power.
15:33 Yes. iirc in JP text, the word "lightless abyss" that describes the Greater will is the same word as what Azur saw. So yeah what Azur saw is surely GW's abyss. Interesting, it is also the same word in "Eternal Darkness" that symbol of the downfall of eternal city, which we know they invoked GW's ire and got grounded. Also it is a different word from 'darkness' in Dark Moon, messer's abyss serpent, etc.
I would like to see a video tackling the concept of the one great and the greater will. The word greater seemed almost arrogant when defining the greater will and it seems that the one great was not just something to be divided at will without any consequence.
This is a huge revelation. I've been working on my own video, for a few weeks now, of who the actual bad guy is, in Elden Ring, with the Greater Will being the "True Villain'. Your explanation of exactly what happened with the Greater Will makes so much more sense than my interpretation 🤯
FromSoft games have always been about cycles, and morally grey storytelling. I don't think anyone is truly the bad guy in Elden Ring. The GW wants a world with life and order, but created suffering, the FF wants the suffering to end but that requires life to end, Marika was incredibly cruel ruler with horrible acts but her motivations are because of previous atrocities on herself. Every being has it's reasons and while methods may not be ideal, they all have a reason. Its what makes the game so special. The conversation about the 'good' ending of the game is completely different for everyone, it's incredible. Thanks for watching!
I love this theory it’s closest to what I believe. timeline wise I think first there was Metyr then the golden star that fell that eventually became the crucible essentially a amalgamation of life energy The first three beings to evolve from the crucible are Ancestral spirits, Dragons, Beastmen maybe the divine bird? Metyr then chose the most powerful being to watch over that budding life Dragon lord placidusax After Placidusax lost his battle with Bayle Metyr abandoned him as he was no longer the strongest Then the three first civilizations pulled up being Hornsent, Ancient kingdom underground, and Shaman village Now here I believe Metyr chose Marika because like Ymir she simply found Metyr by fate if you wanna call it she taught Marika the process/sacrifice to become a god and here our theory differs I believe the Elden beast was a result of Marika forging the Elden Ring/Source Code. the beast being a combination of divinity and her idea of order giving her control over all of the life that sprouted from the crucible. Also I believe her original sin was her idea of order a deathless order and the fact despite her loving her people she still sacrificed them to create the divine gate to become a being capable of housing the power of the crucible. Your idea of the primeval sorcerers seeing essentially how temporal life is via the current is spot on! life sprouts and then goes away the only two factions that understands this is the Frenzied Flame and Ancestral Spirits the latter accepts this nature the former completely denies it. I also have a theory that Ranni found out about the process to become a god through her finger maiden master and knew about a lot of stuff before it happened making her more clever than Miquella…
The gold/yellow of the Frenzied flame could be whats left of the Greater will and the Frenzied flame is keeping that golden/yellow colour as a trophy or as a way to mock the greater will's followers
It seems that Fromsoft/miazaki took a lot of inspiration from astrophysics for Elden Ring's universe. The metaphysical concepts of the Big Bang and Big Crunch are represented here, but on an accelerated time scale, with a little heat death mixed in. These concepts, combined with the physical power they have over Elden Ring's world, overtake people. Very cool.
Absolutely the best theory so far, congratulations man. Me as an astronomy enthusiast, I saw these references to beginning and an end of universe in Elden Ring, but you wraped this up perfectly. That would also explain Radahn motive to hold the stars, he discovered gravity magic and was trying to use this energy against it self, against cosmos and impending doom of the lands between. According to Rani, Radahn was actually successful! He freezes the stars and so the state of Lands between, so much that we NEED to kill him to get the Rani ending or to enter DLC. Rani knew that fate of the world is inevitable and we should embrace dark loneliness of space, and poor Radahn didn’t won’t this.. What a tragic character, kind powerfull warrior used by everyone..
I had the thought about Radahn as well! Considering the Alabaster Lords are said to have come from beyond, they may have taught Radahn this fate. It could also explain why he seems to break the vow with Miquella, maybe he knew he couldn't leave for the fate of the world.
@@Dekuzek Exactly!!! Oh my god… I finally feel like we figured it out, after whole 2 years. Feels amazing. Thanks again for that video, gonna share it with all my friends.
31:05 I think not only the two mages, but the nox knowing this tried to end metyr with the fingerslayer blade found in their city. Metyr have little knife size wound in the chest.
The descriptions of the microcosm related items imply that from within the microcosm there are the same kind of beings, agencies, and complexities as outside of it, except one of them is extremely fleeting and short relative to the "real" reality where Metyr produced it (consider also that Metyr--and all the rest of Elden Ring and its denizens--exist in our real world, themselves a small microcosm). The idea is to both feel sorry for the ephemeral beings that lived within the microcosm because they never knew their memories, lives, and world were basically a complete nothing in the larger context of things before they popped out of existence like a meaningless and fragile bubble; the subtext is that we should consider how horrifying it is that we may exist within one of these microcosms, ready to disappear out of existence at the whims of a more base reality (earning us a modicum of sympathy).
That's my interpretation I think the Greaterwill has an never ending insatiable need to create so it never has time to stop and smell the roses it must be constantly on the move making more and more the fundamental opposite of the Frenzied Flame
Given the events in the game, it's a pretty solid theory. However, one flaw is that a black hole doesn't just consume stars... A black hole can remain for millions/billions of years without consuming the matter around its disk. The gravitational force that it generates around whoever can spread the surrounding matter to all sides so that its heavy elements are divided and heated so that they can form other stars and planetary systems. That's why most super galaxies have supermassive black holes at their center. In the case of Metyr, it's likely that the galaxy or whatever its microcosm represents is already dead or dying. That's why its microcosm is empty and dull colored, the greatest evidence of this is the attack in which it summons a pulsar. Pulsars are neutron stars that transform gravitational energy into electromagnetic blasts, and neutron stars are formed after the "death" of a supermassive star like our sun but bigger. The most obvious evidence of this is the "green" coloration around the center of the microcosm, since in the cosmos the color green does not "exist" because of the white/red/blue spectrum of the stars and their temperatures. Green is commonly used to describe magnetic fields, which increase dramatically in the death of supermassive stars.
This Is probably a stretch, but hear me out. We know via miquella, that people (or at least, demigods) can become deities from "abandoning" things that make them human. The greater will, as seen in fleeting microcosm, is just a void. Fromsoft games as of late have always had "cycles" of things as a prominent part of them, so what if the greater will is what a world, or perhaps galaxy becomes after many cycles of living things becoming "lords" or "gods". In every fromsoft game, our character is sort of a singularity - we absorb the essence of things we kill, and siphon that energy to create new ages. In ds1 we literally seemingly break down from the power we exert on the first flame, ergo keeping the age of fire going. In elden ring, we collect runes and remembrances, but we do so without breaking down at the end. However, over time there will presumably be characters who follow our characters footsteps, becoming "elden lord." But, as that continues, there will eventually be nothing left to consume, leading to a singularity, presumably. Perhaps that's what the greater will is - another world that has been repeatedly consumed/killed to create new ages, to the point where the void that remains all there is - just a mass of consciousness. In it's enlightened(?) state, it sends out creatures from within that void (stuff like astel, metyr, etc.) to try and find other worlds/make sure that other worlds continue on the path itself took. Of course, going by fleeting by microcosm, the greater wills fate was to... blow up. Maybe it created a galaxy, thus repeating the cycle, or perhaps breaking free of it if there were no life forms within the new galaxy. At least, that's my perception of it. You bring up the heat death of the universe when I really think that wasn't the intention. It could be what they were going for, but I think the sort of circle of life of stars, maybe even galaxies was what they were going for. Just my take tho Edit: I didn't realize it, but my idea of a creature amassing everything within a galaxy until it explodes is kinda horrifying. I think that could also make the "black hole" correlation stronger. Instead of just a "mass" like I said before, everything is amassed into a black hole. And given that black holes could theoretically evaporate, but doing so would take a long time, gives more credence to your heat death idea.
My idea for the 'heat death' parallel came to mind because of how they frame the great rupture. It's clearly supposed to bring the idea of the big bang to mind. With no knowledge of the came before our big bang, it being considering a mass of energy like the 'One Great' in game also adds to the idea. My thought it that the cycle of ER is for the Big Bang to happen until Frenzied Flame melts it all away, where it condenses over time and then another big bang happens. The cycle is the growth and contraction of the Cosmos.
24:50 Something to note is that (I believe it is the description of the Finger Weapon) that it describes the bowing of its head {aka the ash of war) brings out hatred. Perhaps this is part of the brokenness that is described. Or perhaps The Mother of Fingers is upset to bow because the recipient (Likely The Greater Will) had abandoned it?
Totally! The ash of war itself is called Kowtower's Resentment, ie: the worshipper's resentment, however, I am not entirely sure if the resentment is directed at the GW or at the tarnished for forcing it to bow. I'm inclined to believe that it is supposed to be directed at the GW, but I'm not 100% sure
There’s also the “abyssal” serpent in Messmer. 🤔 Could it be that the Greater Will’s demise is a pivotal focal point for many of the bad things that happened in the Lands Between history?
I haven't been able to connect Messmer's Abyssal Serpent in any meaningful way so far, but I haven't put much thought into it tbh. Seeing as many of the objects of destruction have connections to fire, I have to assume it is connected in some way.
The colours of the frenzied flame are similar to the colours of an accretion disc of a black hole. Actually, when I think back, the players - and Midra's - frenzied flame heads look pretty much exactly like an exaggerated accretion disc, with the dark void in the centre with bright orange, yellows and reds blazing around the outside.
Great video, I love when someone takes those easy to forget things like Azur and Lusat visions. One thing that you mentioned still bothers me to this day, did the Nox where really banish by the Greater Will? If not, what creature was powerful enough to do that? Maybe Metyr? Edit: another thing, what was really Radahn goal by halting the stars? Does tried to protect the land from those falling stars?
I'm still working through my thoughts on the Nox. They are surprisingly difficult to place in both the timeline & their origins. I do think the GW banished them but I don't know when it happened. As for Radahn, it's totally possible that this is why he halted the stars.
A random thought that listening to you saying "Microcosm" over and over forced into my head: "Kos, or some say Kosm..." Which in hindsight is kinda obvious if you think about the roots of words, as the "cosm" root usually refers to the universe or outer space. Interestingly, google turned up this interesting bit: "comes from the Greek kósmos, variously meaning “order, good order, government, world order, the universe.” Given how tied together the Greater Will is with order in general, it felt a bit on the nose.
The intro cut scene says the greater will abandoned the lands between during the shattering, sick of the demigods’ BS. But it seems like metyr was also physically damaged. Big gouge in her chest.
What is important here is to set a timeline of events that transpire here in the video. My head canon is that Metyr was sent first into the lands between to select a candidate for godhood during or before the Age of the Greatree. Later, the Greater Will was being sucked into the void and as a last act to breathe new life into the universe he sent the Elden Beast, the living concept of Order, and vehicle to whatever vision the chosen God or Goddess wish for, to the Lands Between marking the beginning of the Age of the Erdtree. However, as mentioned in the video Metyr microcosm was a mirror/portal to the Greater Will and since Metyr saw her father die due to the pull of the universe and into the void (primordial current) she was broken and traumatize. Maybe as an act of desperation or trying to honor her father (Greater Will) wishes to create the world he envisioned she chose Marika a poor traumatized little Shamen girl to become a god. Sadly, Metyr attempt to honor her father, ended up creating the warp, contradicting Golden Order that we know. Due to this, it ended up being shatter by Queen Marika, hurting the Elden Beast who was just trying (like Metyr) to create the world the Greater Will envisioned.
I think rather that the elden beast is in facts someone that is aiming to become the greater will , mteyrs champion taken over by the parasite that is the leden beast
I don't think burning it all away is the only option. We can perhaps only burn the tree and move on into a new cycle instead and it seems this happened before from the ash in the capital. Then we can start a new age like the age of the stars where it acknowledges the end of the greater will's era and the start of a new one after the stars halted by radhan are set in motion again to fill the void that the greater will used to inhabit. Or something like that.
The idea of a great scientist being driven mad after looking out into space and watching God die in the distant past is lovecraftian as fuck
Agreed 👍 👌
YES!!!
And astrophysically canonical! Probably not the god part but you get what I mean
@@louisnguyen6610 There's the primordial current. That thing did worse to sellen.
This makes the star ambers drops of God's blood falling to earth.
It's funny how The Greater Will represents order, but yet it created a chaotic world. And the Frenzied Flame represents chaos, but yet it wants to burn everything into one, which is perfect order.
It didn't create a chaotic world. People did. It granted the Elden Ring world the Elden Ring to control the primordial chaos but apparently nothing more. It's not the Greater Will that created the flaws in Placidusaxs, Hornsents, or Marika's eras.
@@specialnewb9821 It was The Greater Will fracturing The One Great that lead to the creation of life and the universe, which is almost always in a state of chaos.
@@specialnewb9821bro are you really doing Greater Will apologia 🗿
@@madeline6951Mfs do Three Fingers apologia all the time???
@@sanakht8888 I mean, the way that guy wrote it, it sounded exactly like christian apologia: "it's not the god that's evil, people have free will and that's why bad things happen". I usually don't see a lot of Frenzy apologists of the same kind, they're memes more often than not. Personally, I think the Greater Will and Flame of Frenzy are one and the same, or at least aspects of the same being, much like Marika and Radagon.
Around 24 3/4 mins, you that Metyr seems healthy and fine and perfectly able to birth fingers, but her womb is maimed and ripped open. I forget how this idea got into my head, but it seems like she can’t birth capital F Fingers like the two in the round table and can only birth the crab fingers, which are a lot weaker. The Fingers can’t even be harmed with normal weapons, not the case for the smaller guys.
She’s defective at this point and can no longer produce new angels for her God, just cheap imitations.
The Nox were punished for a cardinal sin and doomed to live underground for it. They happened to create the Finger Slayer Blade. Maiming the closest thing to the Greater Will and making it useless seems pretty bad to me.
I did think of this when creating the theory,. The reason why I did not mention/adjust for this is because I think there is a lack of evidence either way. Yes the womb she births from looks damaged, but since we do not have a reference, this could actually just be what it looks like.
As for birthing two fingers vs finger creepers, Ymir implies that Metyr was damaged before she birthed the fingers that guided Marika & the ones in the LB, so I'm inclined to believe that she can birth creepers on command but maybe Two Finger births take longer, there is also the possibility that Two Fingers are created from humans (Finger Mimic & Finger Print Nostrum) so if that were the case it could explain why she can't just birth Two Fingers.
I have been thinking about the Nox recently, because they confuse me. They have links to the Astrologers, Carians and the Numen so I've been trying to figure them out. That includes the Finger Slayer Blade. It is said that "This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City and symbolizes its downfall." However, it doesn't explicitly say what the act was. It says the blade was said to be born of a corpse, which I think is confirmed by the Sacred Relic Sword as they are identical in form minus the Finger Slayer Blade being incomplete.
So the treasonous act could be either the creation of the blade from a previous god, or that it was used on a vassal of the GW, both could explain why it is blood drenched but both are equally possible so I can't draw an exact conclusion on that.
@@Dekuzek id recommend Game Plus' video on it, he brings forth pretty strong evidence that the nox's sin was destroying Metyr's womb
The game plus video does get a lot wrong, but it presents a strong argument
@@Dekuzekymir is nuts
@@fireflamingo4310 I'll have to check it out!
If the ever encroaching Abyss is the God of Frenzied Flame, it makes sense then why the forest Midra Manse resides in is now called the Abyssal Woods
The abyssal woods are called that because it’s basically in an abyss in the land of shadow. No one who goes in comes out bc of the lanterns, there are only a few secret ways of getting there, and they are visibly below the rest of the map.
The way I interpret Metyr's microcosm is that it's a sort of wormhole to a space that is immediately accessible to the Greater Will. Maybe not even a wormhole, but instead the microcosm is literally that part of space, just miniaturized by magic. This would mean that Metyr could interact with the space via her microcosm directly and the Greater Will would be able to see that change immediately, which is the only feasible means of communication between them.
Why the only feasible means of communication? I believe that ER's space is mostly similar to ours in the real world, just with added fantasy elements. This means when the Elden Ring, Elden Beast, Metyr and all the malformed beasts like Astel arrived to the Lands Between on stars, it means they most likely came from hundreds, if not thousands or millions of lightyears away. This means that even if Metyr was able to send and recieve light signals, they would take that many years to reach the recipient.
Metyr would then transmit this information to the Fingers. How? Via the tubes we can see above her arena. In Ymir's questline, he sends us to the different Finger ruins, where we blow into a big stone horn (no clue what the proper name is). This produces a sound and we are given ancient, legendary talismans. I believe this is how the inhabitants of the Lands Between communicated with Metyr. And that this is the same principle how Metyr communicates with the fingers. If you look at the fingers, they sort of resemble a tuning fork, which resonates with certain frequencies. The sound or waves used for their communication would be at that frequency. This would explain how they can transmit information even withou a mouth, eyes or ears, their bodies are literal antennas.
And then there are the different abyss/void ratios in Metyr's and Ymir's microcosms - what could have happened was the fact that maybe a lot more time has passed since Metyr arrived to the Lands Between, not 10,000 - 20,000 years which is roughly the recorded history and events we can learn about from the game, but millions, if not billions. This is more than enough time for space expansion to be a factor. On a large enough scale, the space expands at a faster speed than the speed of light. (Imagine a toy car driving on an impossibly large balloon that starts swelling up and never stops swelling, which means the car will get stranded between its starting point and the target destination once the speed of swelling surpasses the car's maximum speed.)
This could be why Metyr lost contact with the Greater Will. The space which is shared/linked with the microcosm simply drifted too far from the Greater Will, or maybe Greater Will drifted too far from it, and once they got separated by a long enough distance, not even information sent at the speed of light would reach that microcosm space and vice versa. I hope I was able to make at least some sense of what I mean.
Totally agree! I think the Cipher the Two fingers uses is supposed to hit to us about how long light takes to trave, IE their communication takes a while for long distances. A tuning fork for the Fingers isa neat idea, I also had thought about them as antennas.
If Metyr is a star and the primordial current is dark matter, the greater will could be the cosmic microwave background in the same vein. The CMB is essentially a picture of the big bang, and we can't see any light that has moved past it(space expansion and light in spacetime means that what we see in the CMB is essentially the max distance light we can see. There's things way out past it we'll never see.) If Metyr was "reading" the signs of the CMB, there's essentially a limit on what's there to be seen, so the messages would stop.
@@cpt_micky Ymir pretty much described the big bang to us in one of his lines, which I think is the division of the One Great Hyetta tells us about. So the CMB would be that division. I still rather think that if there is an actual scientific reason behind the disappearance of the Greater Will, it's the expansion. However, that seems too open ended even for Fromsoft, so even if it is something that "mundane" (for a Fromsoft game), there is most likely something else we're missing
@@GameboySR Ye I agree with you that the greater will is unreachable due to the expansion of space, what im essentially positing is that the reason for that is that whatever cosmic being the greater will is, be it the universe itself, the big bang given name, the emptiness of space, or an incomprehensibly large black hole at the center of the universe, its past the CMB, and the CMB, being a picture of the big bang, would make sense as the "messages" received by metyr. You're right though, it's intended to be open ended with no true correct answer. I just like the fusion of astronomy with these divine entities :3
This would explain the unspoken "terrible thing" Marika learned about the Greater Will. Maybe she wanted to destroy the Elden Ring in an attempt to save the world from the abyss.
Very well could be! It wouldn't surprise me that this discovery is what changed Marika's behaviour and actions.
I can't seem to find it, what item or dialogue mentions this thing Marika learned?
@@channelspellthats what I'm wondering. Are they talking about when she 'search the depths of the golden order'? Or maybe ymir dialogue??
I dont think this is real....where is this content?
Entropy. Marika saw that everything is limited and fated to die one day. If there's time, there's a begginning and an end.
I don't personally believe the Greater Will is broken, but I really like this theory. One thing that's important is understanding how Metyr became broken. I know the popular theory is that she was attacked by the Nox with the Finger Slayer Blade, but I personally think she in some way shape or form found despair or chaos and gave birth to the Three Fingers hence why she's so broken now.
I believe this because of the finger ruins as well as her own boss room having malformed fingers that have the same prints as the Three Fingers. I also believe this because of the Abyss Woods through 2 prime examples. The first being that to our knowledge there was just 1 Aging Untouchable and that that one got Midra and then the other 5 Aging Untouchables would one day spawn as well. Plus there are covered dead fingers/finger eggs in Midra's Manse which suggests to me that they did something they shouldn't have.
One thing I never considered until watching this video though was the true nature of The Crucible. Like everyone else I believed the Crucible was a greater being similar to the Greater Will or perhaps even the shell of The One Great. After watching this though honestly I think The Crucible is the lifeforce/faith version of The Primeval Current which covers magic/intelligence. The Crucible being for living normal creatures meanwhile The Primeval Current being for The Stars.
So thanks for helping me flesh out my thoughts more regardless if our opinions exactly match up 🙏🏻🌟
ER likes to play on dualities..............That would mean if there is a "greater will" then there must be a "greater wont" :)
Exactly my thoughts as well!
i believe the player character is 'the lesser wont'
And that greater won't is basically The Frenzied Flame.
Totally stealing "Greater Won't"
What about a not-so-great will?
This makes so much sense on so many levels. It plays to the absolute horror of Marikas story. I believe Marikas one wish (her goal as a god and the wish she made to the "grand mother") was to save the people she choses from the horrors she went through. To "be a mother" like Ymir, to shelter her chosen children with her power. But to only find that the entire world around you is just a matter of time before it's all gone, to know all your efforts and the promises metyr I believe made to Marika were lies... That's why she was unsound from the start, because her goal was never attainable. It makes The Lands Between feel like this cosmic limbo. She just tried to hold it still, frozen in time and space. But that is stagnation, kagare. Making it ironic even more so that everyone is actually living in death, they just don't know it yet.
This is the first lore video linking the greater will to a black hole, which i think is strongly implied by both the microcosm and ymirs hat.
Also interesting is the parallel between the black abyss surrounded by gold of the microcosm and the black center that the lord of frenzied flame's head becomes
Not to mention the Elden Ring is basically a bunch of empty circles.
Black Hole Sun!
This theory just makes too much sense. I'll look forward to seeing how other loretubers can make more lore connections thanks to this video's information.
“Life is an illusion, the universe is a hologram, BUY GOLD, BYE!!!”
- A true god of chaos, an undying host of a party unending
YES!!!
He Is One Of My Favorite Chaos Gods!
Hail The Cipher!!!
The microcosms look like eyes, too, which thematically relates to the Vision that guides Metyr, and Marika (vessel for the Vision). Personally, I think the act of SEEING allows the ingress of a god so it, or its will, can inhabit the witness. This explains why Lusat and Azur both became inhabited by glintstone from the Primeval Current. This also explains why so many factions conspiring against the Greater Will cover their eyes (Nox and the mirror helm of Iji). To see a god is to fall under its influence.
"Knowledge begins with the recognition of one's ignorance. The realization that the search for knowledge is unending. But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear.
At the end that should not be."
Ranni's fingers look more like metyr than the pair in roundtable hold.
After the DLC, I'm more confused about Ranni's fingers than I was before. Prior to the DLC I actually had a video going over a theory that Marika created the fingers (hard flop theory) but knowing that Metyr births fingers and every single set looks the same except Ranni's is throwing me off.
@@Dekuzekanother thing is that her 2 fingers seem to be much larger than any other pair of fingers, also it looks like it crashed from the sky? Almost like it fell from the dark moon that you can only see from the moonlight alter and maybe ranni’s tower. We know now that they’re birthed, not sent from the sky, so where did hers come from?
@@Rubi1007 MAYBE Rannis fingers weren't from Metyr. They were a sister. They would have grown up into a pure Mother and herald of a Neo Greater Will order. But Ranni didn't want that. An Order where the Moon and Stars are forcibly partnered to it and she is the puppet/anchor that binds them. In desperation to avoid usurpation by Frenzy its like the Greater Will sent a letter home to its illigitimate child, demanding help and acuiescence because hes dying. "Heres some attention you are empyrean so special, look grace is restored to the Tarnished and here are some new fingers. I totally care about you guys, please I just need a kidney"
Ranni was like please die so this family you ruined can move on.
Honestly the whole Greater Will Order family drama is a Southern Gothic.
@@Rubi1007I believe it is similar to how Messimer changes after loosing grace. Ranni's fingers look more like the fingers in Metyr's arena, they are blue from the moon's influence. The 2 fingers are connected to Ranni's soul, so when she killed her body and lost grace, my guess is the fingers did too - converting them back to a more alien look.
@@Rubi1007 She had fingers not every set of fingers is the same, like for example three fingers and finger creepers that she births.
Her fingers were sealed on the moon along with her Great rune that she got during shattering.
That's why we need to defeat Radahann to continue her quest as both her fingers that she somehow managed to trap them were held by him.
What Metel shots is an actual replica of a gamma burst. This is actually one of the best lore video out there.
It's a shocking but compelling theory that the greater will has been killed and consumed by the frenzy flame.
Fear not the Dark, my Friend, and let the feast begin!
RINGED CITY MENTIONED🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💍💍💍💍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️
The theory that the brick wall every method of inquiry hits is evidence of the greater will dying is fantastic especially tying what Lusat and Azure saw into it. It's the eerie silence of the fermi paradox for an unquantifable being is fantastic. Maybe the world it's set in is in a outer wilds situation where the end has evidence it's happening it just hasn't hit us yet.
I haven't played Outer Wilds yet but I've heard it's fantastic. I have it on the list to play!
OUTER WILDS MENTIONED🗣🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🗣🗣🗣🗣❗️❗️❗️
There is a special place in Hell for people who put Outer Wilds spoils in RUclips comments. I hope you stub the same toe ever day when you wake up.
Terrific video. I find the cosmic origin story the most fascinating aspect of the lore and you meticulously explained your interpretation of it. The paralels with Dark Souls themes are also more apparent. Some beautiful shots of the game in your video as well!
When Varré was right all along…
Maybe that’s why we meet him at the beginning of the game… the developers ironic laugh at the players faces.
Miyazaki wrote the lines for Varre himself, too.
Maidenless behaviour, by the tarnished, for not trusting that friendly blood cultist!
Right about John Eldin Ring being maidenless
There are a lot of great observations and ideas in this theory. But after seeing all this I can't help but go back to an old theory I use to believe, the Frenzy Flame acts on behalf of the Greater Will. It was born out of my confusion about the Two Fingers being confused about how to deal with the thorns but the 3 Fingers not only knew to use the Forge but also gave you the means to do it on your own. It felt like the 3 Fingers had more up-to-date info than the 2 Fingers. I figured the Greater Will was "correcting its mistake." I gave up on it because I think Ymir and the 3fingers are just propagandists for alien gods (Sparked by noticing the Greater Will in the Microcosms just like you did but I then associated the Greater Will to the Black Moon of the NumenNox)but this video resparks my like of the idea.
Rather than witnessing the death of the Greater Will, they witnessed the abyss (The Greater Will) destroying its creation. The abyss is still at the heart of Metyr's microcosm and the Lord of Frenied Flames head becomes a burning Microcosm. The Frenzied Flame is the eraser on its cosmic pencil.
Random aside: Metyr was the first thing the Greater Will sent to the world. Are we assuming the old gods have fallen at this point? It's funny to think the Greater Will sent a bug to a planet of super giants.
A few things I want to point out. I think the Three Fingers are used as a way for the Frenzied Flame to lower the guard of the potential lord. As many would already be accustomed to the Two Fingers, the Three Fingers would be more trustworthy.
However, I don't think they are under the control of the GW, because Hyetta specifically says that the Greater Will is separated from the FF/Three Fingers, and that it made a mistake. The FF & GW are referenced a few times in game as separate entities.
A quick call out about the Three Fingers knowing about our path. It's not the fingers that is aware of the burning of the erdtree, it's Shabriri, the Three Fingers don't seem to have any realy guiding purpose other than to brand a Lord of Frenzied Flame.
To answer your question about when Metyr was sent down, it was likely before or during the time of the dragons as we can see the Elden ring in Farum Azula, and we know that the ER/EB came after Metyr. However I don't know beyond that.
@@Dekuzek I guess to clarify where I misspoke. Sorry about that I should be more clear. I don't think the Greater Will is literally the Frenzied Flame/3 Fingers. I think that the Frenzied Flame and all attached to it are vassals to the Greater Will, the way it sent Metyr to prepare the way and later the Elden Beast to preside over order, it sent Frenzy to wipe away its mistakes.
When I say the 3finger knew the way, I was again misspeaking and being lazy. I take that whole operation: The Frenzied Flame, the 3fingers, Shabriri, Hyetta, and even Nanaya all as one collective TEAM. I realize it is inaccurate, I more so mean to imply the Frenzied collective provide a plan (Shabriri tells us) and possess the means(3fingers give us the fire) to burn the Erdtree. All of that stays within the bounds of Frenzy. They seem better equipped internally for this situation. But all that is to say: Frenzy is separate from the Greater Will, it is a tool the Greater Will dispatched. Thus we can speak on them separately but I conjecture their agendas are aligned.
I don't know what the 3fingers deal is. While we can say "yeah they appoint a frenzy lord" we then are confronted with Midra. Midra shows no signs of finger burns on his body yet he definitely ascends in the fight with us. He succumbs to despair before pulling his own head off allowing Frenzy to take the wheel. But in the FF ending for us we're not bummed, we just likely had a personal peak moment yet somehow we are overcome with Frenzy. Rather than giving us yellow eyes we should have gotten the flame head from the 3fingers. Though I've seen it suggested we die for real at the forge and it is the FF that drives us around after that into the ending.
With regards to Metyr, yeah I figure it was around then but it was just more so the funny thought of a Tarantula with the power of a black hole trying to preach about a space god to giants.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Keep making the great videos!
I have always loved the Frenzied Flame and anything that is touched by it. The ost that we got in SotE for our boss musick as its Lord/Lady is phenomenal.
You got great cinematic views in the video too.
The cinematics are actually from an awesome channel www.youtube.com/@DSCinematics who allows me to use their work! Highly recommend checking them out!
the observation you made on the fleeting microcosm vs microcosm with regards to the abyss being larger and the stars being gone is small but so god damn important. that is a very deliberate detail that gives tremendous insight into this world's story, a detail that finally gives us somewhat of a big picture view of this whole puzzle we've all been piecing together for 2 years. great vid
Your talk about the microcosm reminds me of that color theory elden ring video. In it, gold is described as having the power to delineate, separate, and hold in order. Fitting antitheses to the chaos (the old definition of things being indiscernible) of the one great.
So when her microcosm breaks, and the ring is gone, it is truly and plainly shown that Metyr's own parent is gone, and the rickety golden order as we see it is all a rigging to hold the world in place.
Physicist here. You NAILED IT. When you brought up Metyr's microcosm, it all clicked for me.
-- I have always known about how the chaos flame ending was the parallel to the heat death of the universe. It is the end of the universe as we know it, since when energy transfers into heat, it kinda never transfers back. Entropy is always the byproduct of all actions, so it is inevitable, but the flame of frenzy ending simply accelerates all of that to a now, which will be violent by necessity. A burning to turn everything into particles perpetually bouncing around, never to recombine again, in temperature equilibrium, as a whole as one.
-- HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART: The microcosm is not just a community, it's a UNIVERSE. The fleeting microcosm spell creates entire local universes, that come into existence and die in a few seconds. Time within that microcosm is a different construct, guided by entropy itself, which means that what for us was a few seconds, was an eternity in there.
-- Metyr received messages from the greater will, the greater will that she interpreted through the microcosm in her possession. After all, our universe is likely just a microcosm itself, so what different is a 'greater will' there than here? But like you pointed out, that microcosm burned out. It already experienced its heat death, possibly a flame of frenzy end (perhaps the one that inspired the three fingers). And so Metyr was broken because the 'greater will' that created her never spoke to her, instead Metyr witnessed the greater will through her own microcosm, and it died. The universe ended, leaving us 'stranded', unguided, as we exist within our own microcosm forever severed from the whatever else exists beyond it.
-- By killing Metyr, we also destroyed that universe, not from within from outside. We cast into oblivion that which was sacred to the two fingers, the roundtable, history, the gods, in the blink of an eye, like it was nothing.
-- The Greater Will itself might have never existed. It may have been subject to metyr's interpretation, but never independent from it, making it neither here nor there.
holy shit
Schrodinger's God?
Hey! Thanks for the feedback, glad to know I represented it accurately. I'm a recreational learner, just because of how fascinating space is but it's quite complex so I'm happy I wasn't too far off base.
Except you didn't kill Metyr when you kill her sibling the elden beast it says God Slain unfortunately it's technically not dead as the Elden Ring is the Elden Beast as EB is just a physical manifestation of the ring. Also when you defeat her she uses her Microcosm to escape.
The way you have your research set up as in the eyes of our Tarnished, makes it very easy and clear to follow. Great video!
Thanks! I like the idea of laying out the in-game path as best as I can. I find it gives that nostalgic feeling of discovery I got when I first played.
This one of my favorite theories I’ve heard so far. Don’t forget that Radahn was given the task to hold the stars in place.
Loved this. I really like the idea that the frenzied flame is like a black hole at its centre, the fire like the theorized heat emmited by such a phenominum. Really amazing job. Tying in the glintstone origins and lusat and so also very spookey and strangely fitting
It might be my own bias talking but I think that's what made this theory so fun to work on. Everything just seemed to fit.
Castle morne was not invaded by the misbegotten, rather they were serfs at the castle and revolted
@@CPalanysamy You are correct! My mistake
Wow it really amazed me when hearing sorceress Sellen introducing one of the sorcery principles that golden power comes from ancient life, while blue glinstone power originates from residual power, thus from life power within the stars...
This was ABSOLUTELY incredible
I have about 4k hrs in and am writing my own timeline and you literally took the words out of my brain! Good show!!🎉
incredible video and theory! i love how elden ring induces us to discuss all the small details and also form our own interpretation of its lore.
Your last two videos have been very well done. I like that you’re sharing additional little known information with your own interpretation of the lore, not just repeating the well known finds of the community and presenting it as you found it all on your own.
Thank you! I think some theory videos lose the plot by just dumping a bunch of info without placing a narrative/timeline (like I did in my earlier videos) so I try to show/explain the mindset and learning experience through my videos! Glad you enjoyed the recent ones!
All is destined to fade. To be both forgotten and past. That is the ring. That the ash and spirits serves new life and beyond. It is the turning of the great karmic wheel.
None can escape it: Destined death.
A part of the elden ring itself, removed.
I feel like you've missed one key detail regarding Count Ymir. Specifically the High Priest Hat. It says "The hat of Count Ymir, High Priest. The circular design at the top represents the Greater Will and its lightless abyss, imparting increased intelligence and arcane to the wearer."
It sounds like the Lightless Abyss IS the Greater Will (Or a part of it) and not it after its death. And what Lusat and Azur saw was likely the Greater Will's actions upon the cosmos. This, to me, feels like its taking inspiration from Theoretical Physics. Specifically regarding the concepts of the Big Bang (which the One Great was) and the Big Crunch (which is what the Lightless Abyss is in the form of an all-consuming black hole if we assume the last moments of a star cluster was caused by the same darkness that Azur saw).
Yeah, I think it's definitely accurate to think along the lines that the Greater Will is either the great beyond itself (space/the void) or some type of cosmic being that resides there in a non-traditional kind of existence, maybe literally a sentient portion of that space, assuming it's not just some sort of wise megabeast which I could also seem them doing.
My theory she got broken when she gave birth to the three fingers
Man that was a beautiful video, you brought up so much that I had considered when I was playing my first time and it was amazing. The scientific philosophies and astronomy used in elden ring are what made it my second favorite of all of the souls games and you bringing up the microcosm and the abyss with metyr was so good. When I learned for the first time that the two fingers were basically frantically giving orders it like broke my brain because of the base game telling me for 2 years about how important they were lol.
This is one of the best ER analysis vids I've seen. Thanks.
This may be one of the best videos I've ever seen, no joke. Your entire theory is so well researched and makes so much sense, and just the story you portrayed built some tears up. Amazing work.
Thank you very much!
Love hearing about how ER lore intertwines with cosmology.
Idk if
Why the greater will disappeared is the question
Especially when we don't know of the greater will was ever there ???
A great video, I genuinely love it. After following the lore content since the very beginning this video contains what's been going on in my head practically one to one which can not be said with a lot of way more popular channels talking bollocs (which is the main fun of it all, to speculate. I mean absolutely no offence to the guys 😀). Yet again, great job. I do believe thou that Greater Will might still be okay but just wishes the world to come back to the state from beyond the rupture and to fix the mistake that it's made which caused all the afflictions and curses. That ie why the two fingers are being so withered and the three fingers are so clearly depicted to be holding the power to literally melt it all away. That is the power granted by the Greater Will. Regards ♥️
I think the nox injured metyr with the fingerslayer blade. Which is was caused the greater will to banish then underground. The damage of the blade couldve severed a connection to the greater will
The outer gods in this game I believe are living beings that take the shape of celestial objects like ranni and rellana and their moons. What I think Lusat witnessed was the death of the greater will. I see you came to the same conclusion I’m glad I watched before commenting lol. However I don’t necessarily agree that it was the frenzied flame that caused this. There are many outer gods fighting for control over the lands between. Life bearing planets are rare, so there is competition over them. I don’t think that the greater will and chaos are the only 2 outer gods to consider in this silent war that is happening behind the scenes. They aren’t necessarily the top dogs of the cosmos they just have more power over this specific planet within the timeline we know about. I think there’s a deeper story still, that hopefully one day will be told in the form of ER 2 and 3 lol. This was a super good video you definitely earned my like and subscribe
I’ve always been of the opinion that the Three Fingers below Leyndell are Marika's fingers.
Fantastic video! I really liked your comparison of Metyr’s microcosm with the simulacrum cast by the staff, seeing the latter as a snapshot of the moment the Greater Will disappears into the lightless Abyss. Entropy is the fundamental law of the universe.
This is an excellent lore video. I'm surprised how similar your conclusions are with the ones I came to and I hope this video explodes across the lore community. The one caveat you mentioned about the failed meteor taking the form of a spiral really resonates with the spira incantation specifically stating the spiral is a "normalized" crucible. While I'm not sold on the "God is dead" canon, I think it is a very legitimate and strong contender for what's actually going on. There are some context stuff I think could attach to these theories too.
The big one is with Ymir. One key thing people aren't noting about Ymir is he oversees the children of the Night. These elements are clearly related to Noxian ideology and symbolism and I think are meant to describe Ymir's origin, The Eternal City. Ymir's gear specifically says he once worshipped the moon but changed that as the moon is merely the closest celestial object. The Nox also worshipped the moon and the connection between Carians and Nox are extremely obvious. My insane speculation is Ymir, once losing his child, abandoned and betrayed the Nox to worship the Greater Will in hopes he could birth anew or have his son resurrected. The information and knowledge he gained from Metyr may have been a result of Ymir divulging the truth about the Noxian heresies to prove his loyalty. The connection between the finger slayer blade, Metyr being broken, and her obviously damaged womb are WAY too on the nose. The Greater Will doesn't divine betrayal, it learns of it after the fact.
There's a lot more meat on this bone, but I also want to mention why I think God may not be dead and it involves things you did and did not mention. In the Elden Beast fight, when you are physically close to and directly observing the vessel of the Elden Ring, you see tons of different Erdtrees in the background. Now this is ambiguous. Is it just other players, other dimensions, or multiple planets that also have Erdtrees? I think if we're being consistent with cosmology and the War between the GW and Frenzy Flame, it's likely that this is a battle taking place on many fronts at the same time. Multiple worlds having their crucible's arrested by order while the Chaos Flame has to wait for order to form before it can actively destroy it. Causality to regression. The justification is that the primeval current, Ranni and the nox share something in common. Punishment or risk for intelligence. Reaching too high into intelligence seems to be caused for punishment. I think the primeval current is like the Cosmic Background Radiation of the big bang and seeing that actual history is something the Greater Will would want to punish. Seeing how the Great One was split proves the Greater Will's legacy and dynasty as fraudulent so it makes sense it would punish intelligence. Astel's seemingly sent to punish the Nox. Sellen, Azur and Lusat immobilized. Ranni has to go through insane loops and barriers due to her intelligence to even find a potential path. I think intelligence is the key to giving away the GW and so these measures are precautionary. If the GW tithes power and energy through faith/worship, intelligence is unnecessary and counterintuitive to that goal. Considering it's waging a war lacks omniscience, being disconnected from Metyr makes sense the lands would imagine they're abandoned. If the GW was actually dead, Ymir would probably have taken his own life rather than do all these motions to become the NEW mother.
There's one other thing I would also like to point out, specifically the soundtrack that plays when fighting Metyr.
The 2nd phase specifically, its not completely music but more or less a very strange vibration or groaning sound throughout. In actuality, it's heavily based off of the first sound recordings of an actual black hole. So theres a lot more symbology of the Greater Will and a Black Hole even down to the music.
However... I am not sure if the Black Hole wouldve consumed the Greater Will. Moreover, I am wanting to believe it's part of it. Super Massive Black Holes are at the centers of our universe, and are what keep the galaxies spinning and preventing hs from flying apart. A sort of balance, or order, that keeps everything in check on a cosmic level.
OHHHHH. So if The One Great represents before the Big Bang, then The Outer Will represents space itself, because space is the abyss, yet is the only thing we can see light inside of.
EDIT: Crazy good vid man
Lovely theory. The relatioship between Greater Will and Yelough (I like call Outer God of Frenzied Flame like that) is pretty stronger and more real enemies that GW and Rot or Flame of Ruin. Both are black circles, both uses Yellow/Golden, both uses Fingers, and while Rot or others are tollerated (By Fingers and Melina, as they chose Malenia as Empyrean and Melina is ok even with Dungeater ending) everyone, even Hornsent, hates Frenzied.
I think something to be noted is that fingers we meet are not really "real" but a memory of them. So any words or beliefs would only be contemporary in someway from the moment of their creation. We see this with the blacksmith creating a weapon to kill a god. But that weapon somehow already had a history with GEQ.
I believe the Empyreans were chosen on the basis of being new potential matriarchs.
All Empyreans are women or have feminine features and characteristics. Ranni, Malenia and Miquella are all women/feminine characters.
I had this idea since the game was released. I often wondered why Godwyn wasn’t chosen as a candidate to succeed Marika. If he was so loved by the people and the royals why wasn’t he chosen by the Fingers?
Why weren’t Radahn or Rykard chosen to be Empyreans?
The Fingers value motherhood as a requisite for authority since they do come from Metyr, the Mother of Fingers who is, in turn, a daughter of the Greater Will, the Mother of All Mothers.
Motherhood and femininity have always coincided with a grand void, the abyss of the womb, in many cultures and philosophies all throughout history.
Elden Ring is a game about motherhood and the psychological and philosophical aspects of it, while Bloodborne was more keenly focused on the visceral aspect of womanhood and motherhood.
We can see this aspect of motherhood being the foundation of something in so many characters and items in the game: the mother of truth, Philia the new mother of all Albinaurics in Latenna’s quest, the giant ants which are bugs with a matriarchal society, the Erdtree itself meaning Earth Tree/Mother Tree and even Malenia and the children of Rot, a mother that doesn't embrace her children.
Ymir says it himself: to set things right “we need a new mother, a true mother” to tell us what to do. It’s like growing up is out of the question. We need to be guided by a celestial parent, a new primordial mother that knows all and has a clear plan for all of us.
I like that in Ranni’s quest she absolutely rejects it all. We are mature enough to guide ourselves, we don’t need to be guided, we can make our choices freely and can live with the consequences.
The Greater Will might be long gone, but that’s okay. Things will change. Our parents will die one day and won’t be there for us to ask for council or help. We need to grow up and walk our own paths which many times feel like a very dark and cold journey but that’s fine. We can do it.
Love this interpretation
Interesting thought comparing the crucible to the primeevil current. Hope to see more.
Hmm it seems to fit... I prescribe to this idea... One thing that never quite fit in elden ring for me is, why does radahn go to the effort of suspending fate by halting the stars, perhaps radahn is trying to stop the death of everything and winning?
He held back the cleaning crew and any other travelers sent to the lands between. So I think your interpretation was on the money. Even with his faculties gone and he's just a feral beast he's still subconsciously holding them back. He had to be convinced it was the end of the world or why else did he fight so fiercely?
I don't think that greater will totally dissappeared, more like The one Great "parts" started to divide even further than before, "The Cosmic influence" started to have lesser impact on the world. Also most people seems to forget that Fingers and Greater Will literally operates on "Faith" the weaker faith, the weaker the power it grants
30:00
Magic current is excess energy from The Greater Will dying? Amazing conclusion, yet it makes perfect sense when examining the interstellar symbolism. 👏
2 things that really help this video.
~The Moon of Nokstella talisman's item description says the Black Moon was the guide of countless stars.
~ Radahn burns with the a yellow/gold fire in the 2019 trailer for some mysterious reason.
Frenzied flame ending is best ending.
And am I the only one who doesn't believe Melina when she talks about how there are still "Births" and that live is still precious, when everything and everyone looks like they have existed for untold millennia, and we never once witness any children or infants with any of the humanoids. We are told about the births, but never shown any evidence of them, just like how we are never truly shown how they reincarnate, since they can't technically die.
The Lands Between are the epitome of Stagnation and all its ills. Its very existence is an affront to nature.
Best if its all just burned away so something better can come along with the next big bang.
Idk age of stars seems like a good ending too because that’s also about ending stagnation. At least it isn’t as hopeless as dark souls
Stagnation leads to rot....
Also 'born' doesn't just imply babies, but new life, such as for example life in death (those who live in death)... which even the great goldmask didn't see as value-less... to mindlessly hunt, but instead worthy of study as new life and adaptation to the theft of death.
When destined death was first removed from the elden ring, the erdtree sap stopped flowing, the age of plenty ended. Those erdtree buried werent fully able to be 'reborn'. (Ghostflame rituals now a thing of a previous age) but even ghostflame (per band of hawk descriptions) was through burning each other for fuel.
The cycle continues
Even though its Elden Ring, it's all still specifically about 'Souls,' and the power of them... every form of magic and birth, death, and life links to it... ie. Glintstone, black flame, ghost flame, the erdtree as a burial place feeding on the souls of the entombed to birth them again....
The cycle continues. All about SOULS. (The one great fractured, Into many things... including specifically mentioned 'souls')
The beauty of the endings in my interpretation is that the game allows you to see the world, engage with its people, and now with the DLC we see it's history. After you see everything that came before, the cruelty, the death and destruction, the selfishness and the suffering, it asks you what path you think is best. You have a choice between destroying the world if you find the suffering to great, or you can try to choose a path that provides a better life for those who remain.
I personally think that the only 'bad' ending is the Age of Fracture. Where you choose to just let the world fester as it was. Every other ending is subjectively 'good' depending on your perspectives on the game.
Elden Ring is a prequel to Dark Souls. Change my mind.
I think that when Marika got her God status she may have broken that connection to the heater will.
One small thing ive wondered for a while, not a concrete theory by any means but im throwing my two cents out there.
Given the themes of repeating cycles and simulacra, i couldn't help but spot this parallel:
Greater Will (Marika) fractures (shatters) the One Great (Elden Ring)
And if the GW imprisoned Marika via the Elden Beast, then possibly the reason the GW "abandoned" the Lands Between is that it was in fact imprisoned, by its own greater will equivalent of some higher plane.
You Sir deserve sooooo many more Subs💯🔥
Waow, had no clue elden ring was based on my existential nightmares!
You should make another video that delves into the philosophical implications of the people in the Lands Between no longer having a guiding force, akin to no longer having a mother kinda. The fear of responsibility to dictate one’s destiny and how some will either take the burden of responsibility in not only guiding themselves but the others who forfeit this new freedom of choice to a replacing figure of power.
I like this idea! Thanks for the suggestion
almost all you have said are majority of my own past thoughts months ago which i almost entirely agree with
I think metyr was damaged from a battle with the nox, in turn invoking the ire of the greater will. Their weapon being the fingerslayer blade
15:33 Yes. iirc in JP text, the word "lightless abyss" that describes the Greater will is the same word as what Azur saw. So yeah what Azur saw is surely GW's abyss. Interesting, it is also the same word in "Eternal Darkness" that symbol of the downfall of eternal city, which we know they invoked GW's ire and got grounded. Also it is a different word from 'darkness' in Dark Moon, messer's abyss serpent, etc.
excellent video, it shows you put a lot of thought into it
I would like to see a video tackling the concept of the one great and the greater will. The word greater seemed almost arrogant when defining the greater will and it seems that the one great was not just something to be divided at will without any consequence.
This is a huge revelation. I've been working on my own video, for a few weeks now, of who the actual bad guy is, in Elden Ring, with the Greater Will being the "True Villain'. Your explanation of exactly what happened with the Greater Will makes so much more sense than my interpretation 🤯
FromSoft games have always been about cycles, and morally grey storytelling. I don't think anyone is truly the bad guy in Elden Ring. The GW wants a world with life and order, but created suffering, the FF wants the suffering to end but that requires life to end, Marika was incredibly cruel ruler with horrible acts but her motivations are because of previous atrocities on herself. Every being has it's reasons and while methods may not be ideal, they all have a reason.
Its what makes the game so special. The conversation about the 'good' ending of the game is completely different for everyone, it's incredible. Thanks for watching!
In the point of Elden Ring in the timeline, it is the final moments of the beginning of the end
This was a beautiful, horrifying theory! FromSoft are truly masterful storytellers.
wow i was ur 1000th like, look up accretion disks around black holes, the flame is like the herald of the end
That would be hilarious but also accurate if the frenzied flame ending resulted in that whole characters save file getting deleted
The Greater Will's fall off needs to be studied.
I love this theory it’s closest to what I believe. timeline wise I think first there was Metyr
then the golden star that fell that eventually became the crucible essentially a amalgamation of life energy
The first three beings to evolve from the crucible are Ancestral spirits, Dragons, Beastmen maybe the divine bird?
Metyr then chose the most powerful being to watch over that budding life Dragon lord placidusax
After Placidusax lost his battle with Bayle Metyr abandoned him as he was no longer the strongest
Then the three first civilizations pulled up being Hornsent, Ancient kingdom underground, and Shaman village
Now here I believe Metyr chose Marika because like Ymir she simply found Metyr by fate if you wanna call it
she taught Marika the process/sacrifice to become a god and here our theory differs I believe the Elden beast was a result of Marika forging the Elden Ring/Source Code. the beast being a combination of divinity and her idea of order giving her control over all of the life that sprouted from the crucible.
Also I believe her original sin was her idea of order a deathless order and the fact despite her loving her people she still sacrificed them to create the divine gate to become a being capable of housing the power of the crucible.
Your idea of the primeval sorcerers seeing essentially how temporal life is via the current is spot on! life sprouts and then goes away the only two factions that understands this is the Frenzied Flame and Ancestral Spirits the latter accepts this nature the former completely denies it.
I also have a theory that Ranni found out about the process to become a god through her finger maiden master and knew about a lot of stuff before it happened making her more clever than Miquella…
The gold/yellow of the Frenzied flame could be whats left of the Greater will and the Frenzied flame is keeping that golden/yellow colour as a trophy or as a way to mock the greater will's followers
It seems that Fromsoft/miazaki took a lot of inspiration from astrophysics for Elden Ring's universe. The metaphysical concepts of the Big Bang and Big Crunch are represented here, but on an accelerated time scale, with a little heat death mixed in. These concepts, combined with the physical power they have over Elden Ring's world, overtake people. Very cool.
I'm watching this again because is too good
Absolutely the best theory so far, congratulations man. Me as an astronomy enthusiast, I saw these references to beginning and an end of universe in Elden Ring, but you wraped this up perfectly. That would also explain Radahn motive to hold the stars, he discovered gravity magic and was trying to use this energy against it self, against cosmos and impending doom of the lands between. According to Rani, Radahn was actually successful! He freezes the stars and so the state of Lands between, so much that we NEED to kill him to get the Rani ending or to enter DLC. Rani knew that fate of the world is inevitable and we should embrace dark loneliness of space, and poor Radahn didn’t won’t this.. What a tragic character, kind powerfull warrior used by everyone..
I had the thought about Radahn as well! Considering the Alabaster Lords are said to have come from beyond, they may have taught Radahn this fate. It could also explain why he seems to break the vow with Miquella, maybe he knew he couldn't leave for the fate of the world.
@@Dekuzek Exactly!!! Oh my god… I finally feel like we figured it out, after whole 2 years. Feels amazing. Thanks again for that video, gonna share it with all my friends.
@@prow97 The statisfaction is truly the best part of the game haha. Thanks for watching!
You can enter the DLC without killing Radahn
@@blodiaaa6990nope you can’t
I wanted to say, if you think about it, flame of frenzy is yellow, maybe the flames of frenzy itself was the outer golden ring of abyssal.
'truth lies deeper still'... LITERALLY
31:05 I think not only the two mages, but the nox knowing this tried to end metyr with the fingerslayer blade found in their city.
Metyr have little knife size wound in the chest.
The descriptions of the microcosm related items imply that from within the microcosm there are the same kind of beings, agencies, and complexities as outside of it, except one of them is extremely fleeting and short relative to the "real" reality where Metyr produced it (consider also that Metyr--and all the rest of Elden Ring and its denizens--exist in our real world, themselves a small microcosm). The idea is to both feel sorry for the ephemeral beings that lived within the microcosm because they never knew their memories, lives, and world were basically a complete nothing in the larger context of things before they popped out of existence like a meaningless and fragile bubble; the subtext is that we should consider how horrifying it is that we may exist within one of these microcosms, ready to disappear out of existence at the whims of a more base reality (earning us a modicum of sympathy).
It would be fun if the GW was just passing by, barely cared to begin with, and just wandered out of range.
That's my interpretation I think the Greaterwill has an never ending insatiable need to create so it never has time to stop and smell the roses it must be constantly on the move making more and more the fundamental opposite of the Frenzied Flame
*sigh*
Dammit, Tzeentch. I told you not to mess with the Lands Between...
Given the events in the game, it's a pretty solid theory. However, one flaw is that a black hole doesn't just consume stars... A black hole can remain for millions/billions of years without consuming the matter around its disk. The gravitational force that it generates around whoever can spread the surrounding matter to all sides so that its heavy elements are divided and heated so that they can form other stars and planetary systems. That's why most super galaxies have supermassive black holes at their center. In the case of Metyr, it's likely that the galaxy or whatever its microcosm represents is already dead or dying. That's why its microcosm is empty and dull colored, the greatest evidence of this is the attack in which it summons a pulsar. Pulsars are neutron stars that transform gravitational energy into electromagnetic blasts, and neutron stars are formed after the "death" of a supermassive star like our sun but bigger. The most obvious evidence of this is the "green" coloration around the center of the microcosm, since in the cosmos the color green does not "exist" because of the white/red/blue spectrum of the stars and their temperatures. Green is commonly used to describe magnetic fields, which increase dramatically in the death of supermassive stars.
Nice. It's interesting to think about
Interesting that Ranni's moon also has a big ol' void in it
This Is probably a stretch, but hear me out.
We know via miquella, that people (or at least, demigods) can become deities from "abandoning" things that make them human. The greater will, as seen in fleeting microcosm, is just a void.
Fromsoft games as of late have always had "cycles" of things as a prominent part of them, so what if the greater will is what a world, or perhaps galaxy becomes after many cycles of living things becoming "lords" or "gods".
In every fromsoft game, our character is sort of a singularity - we absorb the essence of things we kill, and siphon that energy to create new ages. In ds1 we literally seemingly break down from the power we exert on the first flame, ergo keeping the age of fire going.
In elden ring, we collect runes and remembrances, but we do so without breaking down at the end. However, over time there will presumably be characters who follow our characters footsteps, becoming "elden lord." But, as that continues, there will eventually be nothing left to consume, leading to a singularity, presumably. Perhaps that's what the greater will is - another world that has been repeatedly consumed/killed to create new ages, to the point where the void that remains all there is - just a mass of consciousness. In it's enlightened(?) state, it sends out creatures from within that void (stuff like astel, metyr, etc.) to try and find other worlds/make sure that other worlds continue on the path itself took.
Of course, going by fleeting by microcosm, the greater wills fate was to... blow up. Maybe it created a galaxy, thus repeating the cycle, or perhaps breaking free of it if there were no life forms within the new galaxy.
At least, that's my perception of it. You bring up the heat death of the universe when I really think that wasn't the intention. It could be what they were going for, but I think the sort of circle of life of stars, maybe even galaxies was what they were going for. Just my take tho
Edit: I didn't realize it, but my idea of a creature amassing everything within a galaxy until it explodes is kinda horrifying. I think that could also make the "black hole" correlation stronger. Instead of just a "mass" like I said before, everything is amassed into a black hole. And given that black holes could theoretically evaporate, but doing so would take a long time, gives more credence to your heat death idea.
My idea for the 'heat death' parallel came to mind because of how they frame the great rupture. It's clearly supposed to bring the idea of the big bang to mind. With no knowledge of the came before our big bang, it being considering a mass of energy like the 'One Great' in game also adds to the idea.
My thought it that the cycle of ER is for the Big Bang to happen until Frenzied Flame melts it all away, where it condenses over time and then another big bang happens. The cycle is the growth and contraction of the Cosmos.
Great video! Thank you for sharing this 💜
THE LONESOME DUNG EATER
24:50 Something to note is that (I believe it is the description of the Finger Weapon) that it describes the bowing of its head {aka the ash of war) brings out hatred. Perhaps this is part of the brokenness that is described. Or perhaps The Mother of Fingers is upset to bow because the recipient (Likely The Greater Will) had abandoned it?
Totally! The ash of war itself is called Kowtower's Resentment, ie: the worshipper's resentment, however, I am not entirely sure if the resentment is directed at the GW or at the tarnished for forcing it to bow. I'm inclined to believe that it is supposed to be directed at the GW, but I'm not 100% sure
There’s also the “abyssal” serpent in Messmer. 🤔 Could it be that the Greater Will’s demise is a pivotal focal point for many of the bad things that happened in the Lands Between history?
I haven't been able to connect Messmer's Abyssal Serpent in any meaningful way so far, but I haven't put much thought into it tbh. Seeing as many of the objects of destruction have connections to fire, I have to assume it is connected in some way.
The colours of the frenzied flame are similar to the colours of an accretion disc of a black hole. Actually, when I think back, the players - and Midra's - frenzied flame heads look pretty much exactly like an exaggerated accretion disc, with the dark void in the centre with bright orange, yellows and reds blazing around the outside.
Very interesting! I hadn't thought about that, but it does look that way!
Great video, I love when someone takes those easy to forget things like Azur and Lusat visions. One thing that you mentioned still bothers me to this day, did the Nox where really banish by the Greater Will? If not, what creature was powerful enough to do that? Maybe Metyr?
Edit: another thing, what was really Radahn goal by halting the stars? Does tried to protect the land from those falling stars?
I'm still working through my thoughts on the Nox. They are surprisingly difficult to place in both the timeline & their origins. I do think the GW banished them but I don't know when it happened.
As for Radahn, it's totally possible that this is why he halted the stars.
A random thought that listening to you saying "Microcosm" over and over forced into my head: "Kos, or some say Kosm..."
Which in hindsight is kinda obvious if you think about the roots of words, as the "cosm" root usually refers to the universe or outer space. Interestingly, google turned up this interesting bit: "comes from the Greek kósmos, variously meaning “order, good order, government, world order, the universe.”
Given how tied together the Greater Will is with order in general, it felt a bit on the nose.
I hadn't noticed that, good find!
The intro cut scene says the greater will abandoned the lands between during the shattering, sick of the demigods’ BS.
But it seems like metyr was also physically damaged. Big gouge in her chest.
What is important here is to set a timeline of events that transpire here in the video. My head canon is that Metyr was sent first into the lands between to select a candidate for godhood during or before the Age of the Greatree. Later, the Greater Will was being sucked into the void and as a last act to breathe new life into the universe he sent the Elden Beast, the living concept of Order, and vehicle to whatever vision the chosen God or Goddess wish for, to the Lands Between marking the beginning of the Age of the Erdtree. However, as mentioned in the video Metyr microcosm was a mirror/portal to the Greater Will and since Metyr saw her father die due to the pull of the universe and into the void (primordial current) she was broken and traumatize. Maybe as an act of desperation or trying to honor her father (Greater Will) wishes to create the world he envisioned she chose Marika a poor traumatized little Shamen girl to become a god. Sadly, Metyr attempt to honor her father, ended up creating the warp, contradicting Golden Order that we know. Due to this, it ended up being shatter by Queen Marika, hurting the Elden Beast who was just trying (like Metyr) to create the world the Greater Will envisioned.
I think rather that the elden beast is in facts someone that is aiming to become the greater will , mteyrs champion taken over by the parasite that is the leden beast
We know for a fact the greater will sent metyer , but for the elden beast the description seems more like it's a falsehood.
I don't think burning it all away is the only option. We can perhaps only burn the tree and move on into a new cycle instead and it seems this happened before from the ash in the capital. Then we can start a new age like the age of the stars where it acknowledges the end of the greater will's era and the start of a new one after the stars halted by radhan are set in motion again to fill the void that the greater will used to inhabit. Or something like that.