Isn't it confirmed that the neither the greater will or the fingers are controlling the grace our tarnished see? Grace guides us to burn down the erdtree and unleash destined death, which Enia says "Unleashing the rune now would be unthinkable... The Fingers would never permit it. Nor would the Greater Will." I'm almost certain Marika guides the tarnished. The Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between when it left the demigods. The fingers insist it hasn't because grace is still around, but once grace leads us to burn the tree, the Fingers are stunned into calling the greater will directly. It's because the fingers didn't know Marika took the tarnished grace, so now she's controlling it.
Soulslore Seekers at the end of every lorethrough: "There is no path. Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark... what could possibly await us? And yet, we seek it, insatiably... Such is our fate."
The duality angle goes so deep. Every animal is two animals: the lobsters have shrimp arms, the penguins fly like seagulls, the sheep roll like armadillos, etc. Every demigod is two beings fused together: Godfry and Serosh, Radahn and Leonard/Miquella, Rykard and the Big Snake, Malenia and the Outer God of Rot, and so on. Brilliant video man. I can't imagine how much work must have gone into it.
I would add that the DLC is particular deals a lot with parenthood; especially rejection. The Greater Will abandoned Metyr and by extension the wider world; almost certainly sowing the seed for the Frenzy Flame and it's truth. Marika abandons basically all her children, rejecting them for flaws outside their control. Forager Brood are likewise abandoned by Malenia, who rejects them, even when it was her explicit choice (to unleash the Scarlet Rot) that gave birth to them. Just a long chain of people being abandoned or rejected by their progenitors.
To me, elden ring is a lesson in despair. Not just from the characters succumbing to it, but also you yourself as the player. Everyone from the gods to the lowest depths of the gaols are in a desperate struggle against despair. Whether embracing it, rising above it, or choosing to reject it all, in the end its all about what your answer is in the face of such pervasive and overwhelming despair and struggle. What kind of Lord could claim such a broken world
I just think that one of the greatest themes of Elden Ring is fate. Ranni seems like a perfect examples of rebellion, but she is based on Loki from norse mythology. Loki killing baldur and beginning the age of men was not an act of rebellion. Loki just thought it was an act of rebellion, because he was a rebellious chaotic person. But the death of baldur was written into the fate of the world. It was always destined to happen by the greater will of the universe. I almost wonder, did Ranni really even avoid her fate? If the two fingers haven't been in contact with the greater will in millenia, then how can we be sure that severing herself of her two fingers would even sever her fate from the greater will. I honestly think that the death of Godwin and Ranni was written into the fabric of fate. So Ranni's act wasn't a rebellion against fate, but Marika's sealing of the rune of death and trying to save the demi gods was the actual act of rebellion. Trying to rebel against a fate that she knew she couldn't stop. All in hopes of saving her children and ruling forever. But, no matter what Marika does, Ranni will always kill Godwyn and, as Ansbach says, the world will change with the rising of " a lord not for gods, but for men." The age of men begins, lead by a witch who wants to give everyone their freedom. Their are so many other cool ties of norse mythology and fate in elden ring, but i am convinced that this is the most interesting.
@@Theanimeisforme nah it's not propaganda. Ranni's ending was just very poorly translated. It was even covered on this channel. By separating the elden ring from the lands between, the gods cannot influence people. So everyone becomes more free to self determin their own lives, instead of being at the mercy of gods they cannot begin to understand
@@bluebird2217 because the elden ring controls the fundamentals of the world. Light, dark, life, death, it can emblem beings with strength. The greater will and 2 fingers only have power over tge lands between because their god, Marika, is also the vessel of the elden ring. So she can control who lives, who dies and who is deserving of purpose or "grace" in the world. If you removing the elden ring, and no gods can control it, then no gods can control people.
@@borisdragosani7584 I wasn't talking about Marika or the empyreans. I was refering to the outer gods like the scarlet rot or frenzied flame, who likely continue to persist despite the removal of the elden ring. Besides that the elden ring's power isn't total. Those that live in death and the followers of frenzied flame exist during her reign, despite Marika wishes. She can't will them out of existance and has to send her own followers to destroy them.
For me the Frenzied Flame ending is probably the greatest trick the game can pull on seasoned fromsoft fans. An entity that espouses the sort of anarchist-esque rhetoric about breaking cycles and imposed orders in the name of chaos and freedom, and through the mouths of the downtrodden- that any player privy to how the Greater Will has tyrannically subjugated the world as well as skeptical of how the other cosmic forces (Moons, Primeval Current, Formless Mother, even the forces of Living-Death) also show themselves to be little to no better orders would eventually follow the logic to its most frenzied conclusion. It makes you overlook or not connect the intense suffering & loss of faculty of those inhabited by the flame, the fact that it also speaks through a finger vassal + maiden, the way it's stated to permanently burn away even souls, how it steals bodies to speak for it, or how your success as lord of frenzy leads to the burning of masses of souls who didn't know/ask for/consent to it as it asserts it's own order of chaos. Chaos uses the promise of freedom to take the world.
The theme of ambition in Elden Ring is pretty pertinent, as every one of the characters have their own flame of ambition and its shown how they manage them, some are consumed by it, others the flame has dwindled completely. It tries to show who far you are willing to go to fulfill your ambition/objectives, how many bodies you will pile and how bloody your path will be in order to reach your end. Great video Geoff, another banger as usual, can’t wait for the next one, have a good weekend my fellow and don’t you dare go hollow
6:46 okay at this point I am CONVINCED you try to fit these lines into every video The albinauric bloodclot might be the greatest lore item in the game but Ranni talking about empyreans might be the best lore dialogue in the game
This video is anything but a "banger". He keeps mentioning the Two Fingers, they stop being a factor halfway through the base game. You kill their mother in the dlc, they are finished. The Greater Will left for cigarettes a long time ago. The dlc confirms the guidance of grace is Queen Marika's doing, guiding strong willed and ambitious Tarnished to wipe the slate clean and bring about a new age because she knows she fucked up. The main theme is ambition, and the cicle of violence that follows it.
I just want to point something out that I think is REALLY important but seemingly never talked about; the sealing tree _doesn't_ look like the scadutree, or rather, it _only_ looks like the part of the scadutree that seems to be "choking" the other part of the tree which is growing straight upwards. Go look at the scadutree and the sealing tree again, it's irrefutable. I have no idea what the lore implications of this are, but it seems _really_ important, and nobody has dug into this. Great video as usual!
I am just here to say that I am so happy that after one year that my xbox died with Dark Souls 1, a technician managed to repair it and I can replay it again
Fantastic work. Feels like a culmination of many years of introspection and retrospection has led to this point of singular, excellent review. Miyazaki and the Fromsoft team have truly crafted an experience worth memory.
54:54 Funnily enough I do believe the DLC gives us an answer to this. Since "Shadow of the Erdtree" came out there has been a question sort of hanging in the back of the community: why does Miquella not get his own ending? From a meta-perspective you could argue that this could create problems with the DLC potentially being approached in the post-game, but this doesn't seem like a particularly strong justification to me. Especially considering that you can reach the DLC via Varré's quest in less than two hours of game-time. I would argue that there has to be a narrative reason for why the "age of compassion" is something for us to stop. What is Miquella doing wrong that Ranni is doing right? Why is Miquella positioned as the antagonist, where Ranni is an ally? And I believe the key lies with a perhaps unexpected character: Ymir. When asked about Miquella he says: "Ever-young Miquella saw things for what they were. He knew that his bloodline was tainted. His roots mired in madness. A tragedy if ever there was one. That he would feel compelled to renounce everything. When the blame... lay squarely with the mother." As mentioned in this video, the free will of Empyreans is at best tenuous, as their flesh allows the Two Fingers some measure of control over them. And we see that the parentage of the demigods in general carries heavy influence. All of them inherit something, be it Rennala's sorcerous aptitude, Radagon's red hair and battle prowess, or Marika's connection to the divine. It's an interestingly literal take on the concept of legacy, the idea that you in some way live on through your children. Miquella wanted to create a kind world, one in which everyone would be embraced and no one would be rejected. But he is the scion of a system built on rejection. While the game does point out the relative openness of the early Golden Order, its very foundations are built upon Marika's rejection of Death, which eventually spirals into the xenophobic, tyrannical, and genocidal regime of the present. Miquella understood that he had to reject this part of himself. There is a fundamental contradiction at play here. How can he build a world free of rejection, if he has to reject a part of himself to become a god? Just like Marika, the foundations of his "age of compassion" are at odds with each other. Hence he is most likely doomed to repeat the cycle, despite all his desires to avoid this. By contrast, Ranni rejects the broken system at a macroscopic level and proposes something entirely new, a truly meaningful change. It will be a difficult journey for her, and for you should you choose to follow her. Lonely, terrifying, with yourselves as the only guide. But there is hope for true change, for creating a better world than the one that came before.
To me, Miquella represents the insidious cruelty of benevolent but misguided ideals. He is committing the same sin his mother did, albeit in less violent way; both seduced and manipulated their way to godhood. While some rule by the sword, others do it with their charm. If conflict is in Man's nature, one cannot achieve a "gentler" world without unprecedented levels of tyranny and subjugation. In other words, Miquella would have to strip humanity of its free will to achieve his goal, an easy feat for him given his divine charm - make everyone so infatuated with him that they would do his every bidding.
@@Based_investor Where does the game say that she discarded her love? Afaik she has slightly different dialogue with her at the end if you visit her chambers after the quest. Said dialogue change points at the opposite of what you suggest.
Hey Smoughtown, I just wanted to say that I’m really grateful for your lore videos. It’s just so relaxing to listen to you and learn new story details about ER
@@SmoughTownI just realized you also have buymeacoffe and patreon account. What's the best way to support you, i.e. where do you get the most amount? I'd imagine yt takes a rather large share from the memberships subscriptions
@@TWIDDL3that’s really kind my friend, honestly I’m already super grateful for the membership. Means so much but if you felt the need then buy me a coffee is a great place!
I truly appreciate your upload schedule. I had just started reviewing my notes, and this was the perfect video to watch while doing so. Once again, you are the greatest lore channel on this platform, and I thank you for contributing so much to the community!!
Duality was definitely a theme I found in the base game, but I think if we’re looking at only Shadow of the Erdtree, I also saw the theme of Motherhood in a lot of questlines/plotlines.
The Lands Between seem to be largely matriarchical and it has a lot of death/rebirth imagery in it. Not as much as Bloodborne obviously, but it's there. In a way you could view Miquella casting off Saint Trina as yet another act of defiance against the Two Fingers. Even the Two Fingers spawn from their mother Metyr who is ultimately telling them what it thinks is the Greater Will's messages.
I agree. In a way its almost like a flip side to bloodborne. Bloodborne had a visceral femininity to it for lack of a better term. It highlighted the horrors of motherhood. But elden ring isn't as generous, blatantly portraying marika as a bad mother who betrays and abandons her children. Then there's ymir and metyr who're both representative of failed parenthood, those who lost their children or had malformed children. Edgar and Irina too, with edgar going mad from his failure as a father. In ER it is an unspoken but harsh critique of the sins of the father/mother and the suffering they forced upon the ones they brought into the world
@@TheBitingBat I also think it’s a very “human” approach to telling the failures of motherhood. Marika’s themes of abandonment and motherhood aren’t of an alien force (unless you talk about Metyr, but im specifically referring to Marika and her story). It is a classic tale of a tragedy a mother had to face, then upturning her trauma into an emotion. The fingers saw this emotion in her, and manipulated it. They saw a mother who greaves, but who was also capable of becoming a powerful God. And so it was then when the fingers decided to advise her through her acts of horror, genocide, to gain Godhood through the force of the trauma that Marika suffered. It’s an emotion. An emotion that would ruin the world as we see it. An emotion that Marika, herself, would see by the end. The realisation that her acts of emotion never made her fit to be God at all. That she was just a pawn in the Greater Will’s game. Now we know that EVEN Marika had been lied to by the Fingers about the Greater Will’s nature. That’s why she would shatter the Ring.
I always refer to the game as Miyazaki's Prophecy of Fire, if we always fight, the world will burn. Frenzy, or even fighting a literal manifestation of peace, crucifying people for their shortcomings, conspiring to greatness, will always end in naught, a Tarnished victory even. That being said, you nailed it brother, thank you.
Always a treat to see a Smoughtown video in my feed, my sleep quality stonks will now skyrocket the next week 🫡❤️ Sleep aside, Thank you again for all this excellent content. The quality you have in your writing and production is impecabble! Hats off as always for you Smougeoff 🎉
I just noticed that Ansbach literally says that the eye is something important for Miquella's heritage - to be an empyrian, which is kinda odd to be that specific. Ranni also seems to be missing an eye/have her eye sealed, indicating that a graced eye is one of the prerequisites to become an empyrian as she is one. Melina also has her eye sealed, which may imply that she is/was an empyrian herself.
I’ve seen every single one of your videos but this one is a highlight! I had never put together all the different philosophies in Elden ring as they relate to the player and also real life philosophy but thsi video finally put all the pieces together, amazing stuff!
Another amazing video! Really loved the deep introspection between how much the player knows growing with how much our in-game character knows. One point I want to push back on is when you said that Marika tolerated the existence of the Hornsent for a time while the Golden Order existed. The Festive Grease doesn't say that Marika tolerated the Hornsent; only that the Erdtree (which, in my opinion, lines up more with the desires of the Greater Will) tolerated their existence. This lines up with what we know about the Greater Will; it doesn't care what kind of order exists, as long as order does exist. Moving onto speculation territory, I believe this is what Leda meant when she talks about the seduction and betrayal of Marika. Marika promised them a time of plenty, seducing them with great wealth and abundance if they bowed down to the Golden Order. And so, the Hornsent did, only to have their entire culture and existence burned away from history. This was Marika's betrayal. Again, another amazing video! And let me know what you think about this speculation.
the funny think is that it not even the desires of the greater will, the greater will peace's out way before then, it just the fingers and their weird mom pulling the strings.
I like how the Radahn Miquella combo makes so much sense of other lore. In particular, I think when Miquella found out about Ranni's plot to ascend to godhood, he convinced Radahn to halt the movement of the stars and stall Ranni so Miquella and Radahn could do it first. Even if Radahn isn't following Miquella, Miquella could have tricked Radahn that his home town was under threat by the falling star and got him to scourge the stars that way. Either way makes sense and makes the Ranni vs. Miquella race to godhood that much more interesting
I always drifted towards the cycle of violence but more specifically the fall of empires. The intro cutscene line "the fallen leaves tell a story" was evocative for me. Obviously referring to the Erdtree and the fall of its era but applying that line to the whole game is the story of failure and how the leaves fall tells the story of death (winter) I do think freedom is at the core of this since that was a big design concept for the game and so it fits so well that fromsoft made that a core tenant of the mythos and lore
20:42 I really appreciate that you represent goldmask’s ending charitably instead of flatly asserting that he opposes free will without sufficient evidence.
Well done, first of all. I think Elden Ring, among all else that it touches on, is a commentary on the History of the Catholic Church. Most specifically with Marika as the figuretype of the Church, as she is the "god" that expresses the intent of the Greater Will. In Theology, God is described as a rising spiral, and the well of life. Lot more to touch on, but that that's the key points. Elden Ring is a phenomenal philosophical exercise 😊😊
Another banger video Smough. Hope you make more like this. It’s amazing how games often believed to not have any story can have some of the most impactful storytelling in any media
Ranni is one of the biggest monsters in the series. Her actions led to the Shattering, damning the world with scarlet rot and deathroot. There is no justification for that.
Thank you for making such a thoughtful video! Elden Ring is such a deep and layered game. Elden Ring and Fear and Hunger are the most impressive games for their esoteric literacy. The main thrust of Fear and Hunger, to me, is that Godhood is a "trap." The same thing that Saint Trina says. I feel that Elden Ring is Miyazaki's Occult magnum opus. A work that grapples with what it means to have soul, destiny, and the nature of divinity. Elden Ring is akin to an Alchemical grimoire. Elden Ring is a coded text that is about the reader. Like other Alchemical texts, it is about how the individual practicer combines the divine feminine and divine masculine within themselves to transcend physical reality. Like Enoch in the bible. The Bible says that God "took him" and that he "did not see death" (Genesis 5:21-24, Hebrews 11:5) For Occultist, Enoch is an example of successful spiritual transcendance. But Marika and a male hornsent are both crucified like Jesus. This represents how in the Lands Between both principles of divine masculine and divine feminine are misunderstood are corrupted. So, idk. I really think the logic of this game is Alchemical grimoire steeped in the Christian Gnostic tradition. Like, Gwendolyn in Dark Souls is an Abraxas reference, which is an important Gnostic diety that combines the Dualistic nature of reality into a single vessel. Sorry to rant!
I probably have the most abstract views on elden ring... For me, Elden Ring is a reflection on life, humanity, and humans as a species. Elden Ring can also be translated to Fire ring, since elden means fire in norse - and the making and use of fire is the only thing that is truly unique to humans. Human hands and fingers evolved because our ancestors started climbing trees, which could explain why fingers and trees are having god-like powers in the game. Fingers in Elden Ring could also refer to the creating human hands, that not only sculpting things out of clay, but also could be the writing hands of someone creating a story, literally manipulating every character like puppets - hence the puppetry theme in elden ring could be explained by this, as the Fingers could be a higher power, creating a story. It could translate to real life, as sometimes we could feel like we are characters in a story and there is maybe a higher power, a god or an alien that controls it, and having amusement in seeing our life story unfold. Life is a stage, and we are all actors in it - just look at how Ranni's face resembles the mask symbols of theatre. Ranni discarding her body could also refer to gaining true free will that is independent of one's body. There is real science and philosophies related to how our bodies control our behaviour through chemicals, and we are often unaware of it. I find the theme of body and mind and their separation in elden ring super interesting. Even Ansbach points out that "Thiollier appears to be weak in both body and mind" - yet he still fights and joins you to face the hardest boss in the game, highlighting a third element: "The fighting spirit" - or "stamina." This green theme of stamina and fighting spirit can also be observed in Midra ( you can find the stamina talisman on the way towards him ) - a man who is enduring immense pain and staying alive despite of it. The theme of body and mind can be further translated into the talismans you pick up upon completing Ymir's questline, as you get the seed talismans upon blowing into the hanging pickles..... if red, the HP, translates to "Body", and the blue, mana increasing talisman translates to "Mind", then the duality of the two can be an important thing in the process of creaton and "birth giving" by the greater will / cosmic mother. There is also a strong theme between humanity and animals. What discerns humans from animals, and it shows how the old ways are getting looked down upon by the order - the modern civilization. In elden ring and real life, the way of the humble, animal life is getting oppressed. The theme of animals becoming humans is the strongest in Farum azula, where the beastman obtains fingers: the thing that allows them to create tools and become intelligent, human like. Or the way the Order is executing "omen-born" people with horns. Horns and animal features are representing the original, old way of living in both the game and in life. I'm also sad to see this in real life as well. For example, I would much prefer to ride on horses than having noisy cars on the road that pollutes the environment. But if I would start riding a horse around, the current order would be against me. Its also getting more difficult for humans to hunt and forage for food, making us rely on money. I would rather hunt for food or keep animals, than work for money. In shadow of the erdtree, there is many themes of "forager broods", foraging and hunting, and animal-like, humble living: All the things that are being wiped out and shunned by the Order. ( for example the shadow enemies with baskets only drop foraged items, mushrooms and weeds. ) A world without death, is a world without love: The theme of life and death is also super interesting and sad in Elden Ring, since Queen Marika made it so there is no death exist in under her rule, so everyone lives eternal lives. However, eternal life resulting not needing to reproduce, therefore no love, no births, no mothers. Hence why many characters in this game suffers in sort of an existential crisis, not understanding their "purpose" in their life - or rather and most interestingly, their purpose in the "story", as a character. Maybe could be literally, if we consider that the Fingers are truly writing the story of elden ring. - Ironically, there is a loss of purpose in life if there is no death, and no need to reproduce, no need for love. The Greater Will could be this power in ER, which created life within and perhaps its the controller of the story. Through Ymir, I think its revealed that the Greater Will is a mother, the cosmic creator of all things. He and the Mother finger also features black holes, saying black holes are like the womb of the universe. And its very likely true in reality as well, since our universe, space is nestled inside the same chaotic material that is inside black holes, where no space could exist. ( since black holes are like the holes in a cheese, air pockets that represents the outside world ) So the theme of a Mother also comes up again here: Who created us, who birthed us "Everyone needs a mother" - as Ymir says, as he gets obsessed - or perhaps even possessed - by the Mother Fingers. Therefore, we can say that the cosmic chaos area that is outside of our universe could be the ultimate mother of everything, and we thrive to understand why she created us, what is our purpose. I personally believe the world and life was came to existence naturally, but sometimes I play around with the idea if there is a consciousness behind it. Order and chaos could also refer to heat and cold, since in real life, particles organize into order to create heat and therefore life, but eventually everything turns back into disorder - antrophy - as everything eventually cools down. Chaos could also refer to the beginning of the universe, after the big bang there was literally one big mass of heat - the universe looked similar to the sky you can see in the frenzied flame ending -. And ironically, chaos is what inevitably our ordered world will return into, just think about for example to the fact that eventually our planet will be scorched to death by the heat of the sun as it enters to the end of its life. The notion of this could drive one crazy, thinking life is ending anyways, and everything is pointless. Frenzied flame is also the symbol of pain itself. As someone who experienced extreme pain before, it feels like your head is melting by fire as you almost loosing your mind, feeling similar to how the lord of frenzied flame's head looks like. The Frenzied Flame ending is about giving up, and submitting to the inevitable end: The sun will burn earth, and its better to stop births so they wont suffer the end. I consider Ranni's ending the opposite. In her ending, the cold, logical mind wins. It could translate to humanity saving itself from the heat of the dying sun, using their intelligence to build spaceships for example, and travel to another planet. "A thousand year voyage" through space, if you will.
I've long though this clash of philosophies and ideologies is the heart of the game's themes, and that Miriel comes closes to outright stating what Miyazaki's trying to say. I'd add that I think it's symbolically important that blessings flowed from the Erdtree while the sap was fluid and flexible and stopped when it became solidified, rigid and hard. I'd also say that there's a lot of people in the lore community who seem to have a positive read on the Fundamentalists (many emphasizing only that they were scholars, even framing them as scientists or natural philosiphers-people who really like Goldmask are particularly prone to this read, which I think is interesting because Goldmask reads to me as a post-fundamentalist reformer). Religious fundamentalism as it's experienced in the real world is usually based on a selective read of holy texts and mystical knowledge to come to pre-conceived conclusions occasionally leading to some of the worst excesses religious violence in the real world. People who believe they've figured out the system of the world and have a simple prescription for human behavior are dangerous, and I appreciate that you're bringing those more negative aspects up here. I think it's no accident that one of the first things we see when we enter the lands between is people being crucified.
Incredible video Smough !! My comment will be simple I loved every seconds of your videos in general and this one. Editing, explanations, speculations and giving credits always where it is due. Loved your channel for years now and i cant wait for whatever you are planning next !! Good day mate :) and take care ❤
I've been learning about Buddhism recently and it strikes me how often the theme of some sort of "release" from reality comes up in FromSoftware games. From what I've learned about Buddhism, one of its core tenets is that reality IS suffering, and that release from reality is the final purpose of mankind. In Dark Souls 3 the abyss is expressly framed as non-existence and is heralded as a blessing by those who follow it. In Elden Ring the frenzied flame is feared by most because it is the power of non-existence but also seen as a blessing by those who have found the "truth" of reality. It's not something I'm studied enough in to make any sort of final conclusion, but it's made me look at these games in a very different way.
The thing I always think about with regard to miquella and how he creates a perfect world at the cost of the NPCs autonomy is that it's the good ending. not that it's the best ending for elden ring in particular, but that it's the good ending of every other rpg-- you as the player make all the "sacrifices", all the npcs love you, and you walk away from the game to never think about them again when you're congratulated and told everything worked out.
I believe that the evolution of Miyazaki's ideas from Dark Souls to this title has been one of reconsidering many parts of his cosmology. It almost seems to me as if he has been exploring different takes on topics he was already interested in and wanted to represent them interacting with one another in a sort of dialectical confrontation, where the player acts as the voice of the individual that has to balance each opinion and decide whose side he is going to take just as in our own world. I thoroughly enjoy this excercise of intellectual challenge and think it really helps us put in perspective the inner debates we have to face when confronted with the mixture of ideologies that fight to gain our support in our increasingly segmented world. Anyways, I think you have made a wonderful job of laying these themes out for the neverending discussions these games spark for us and I love it.
I’ll never forget the point of my first play through that decided my choice of the ending. Hyetta’s subtle influences across my journey planted the seeds of doubt in the golden order, and when embraced by the Three Fingers, her divination of their words completely lined up with my ideals. Such a huge lore bomb when she began with “All that there is came from the One Great….” My wretch, coming from nothing, having no particular build (jack of all trades) or allegiances, despised this fact. If we harmoniously lived as one before, why is it viewed as the “bad ending” to burn it all away and become one once more? Melina’s pleas fell to deaf ears, as I let chaos take the world. Solid video (as always) and awesome points with player autonomy, I couldn’t agree with you more man.
I think Elden Ring as a whole is meant to be a tragedy. Which is why it has so many messages and themes. The game has so many references to history and mythology. That it's like visiting the home of the greek gods and finding it in ruins.
Thank you for this; I hate to pit two bad bitches against each other but I recently became disillusioned with Vaati because he kept refusing to engage with visual and textual metaphor; at least this was the case last I checked in on him with his AC6 vid which was super disappointing.
Vaati has specialised in *entry level lore* imo, and there's nothing wrong with that. His content used to be a blend of theory and recaps, but over time his content has become solely focused on recapping Fromsoft's vague stories with minimal interpretation. While at first I dislike this direction, I've come to appreciate his objective recap approach and abandonment of theory videos. I love the theory crafting side of the fandom the most, but that's exactly why Vaati's content plays such an important role despite how basic it might be: it gives us Avery thorough rundown of facts to form the foundations of our theories
@@Practicallypreposterous Agreed. Vaati is the stepping stone for most people into the more esotheric theories--it was for me! Once you realize that the community as a whole has many creators all within their niche, your holistic enjoyment of and engagement with this amazing property increases tenfold
ehh.. I still like Vaati. I agree, his lore analysis is far less robust than others, but that’s what I like about him. Still to this day, despite me loving other creators more, I think he is the ‘BEST’ Loretuber. Why? It’s because he has the most surface level approach to explaining the systems of the world, allowing for an ease of access into the Lore. This was especially helpful for Elden Ring, where there were many new people who had no idea what the story was. It’d be difficult for them to play something they had no idea about, then going STRAIGHT to a Quelaag video to understand the deep and dense lore beneath the surface before they touched up on some surface level lore beforehand. The second reason is that Vaati simply has the best storyTELLING And production of any lore creator. Bar none. Not close. I still prefer people like Smough, but we shouldn’t deface Vaati’s videos, because he knows what his videos are. He’s not hiding it.
Oddly, Elden Ring is the game that got me to understand how to write fictional politics. No definitive right or wrong, just different people with different ideas about what should and should not be. Reasons affecting reasons, actions causing actions, and nobody ultimately able or willing to see the entire landscape. Not that it would matter because even if someone tries to pause and sort it all out, to halt the cycle, there's always outside forces of nature that will force the gears to turn anew. To me, Elden Ring isn't about any of it's individual themes but it is about that inter-connectivity and how all of the elements fit together in a wonderful, tragic mess of a narrative... just like the real world.
You keep saying the Golden Order doesn’t accept contrivance, but that’s not what Miriel means at all. He’s saying the things found heretical by the golden order are contrived, meaning that heresy isn’t actually heresy, and that it can be conjoined under the golden order.
Yes, he means to say that the Golden Order doesn’t accept “contradictory beliefs/cultures.” The word “contrivance” means construction or creation of something. Heresy itself is a contrivance of the Golden Order: this means things are only subjectively heretical in relation to it; heresy is not objective to the true Nature of the world.
that's just gold mask end but with the stars/moon in a greater position as she says herself "lf that that her order would be one of the stars guided by the moon."
Before I watch this i just want to say a theme I still have yet to see anyone really talk about is the cycle of addiction. We as players come in to a world that has lost its grace, the one thing that made everything better, the thing the people of the lands between would do ANYTHING for that feeling just one more time. Then theres the perfumers which just outright say became addicted to their own products.
I don't agree on the fingers controlling the sites of grace. Mostly since we still see the sites no matter what, including the Frenzy Flame ending, that technically runs against all their machinations and history. It more likely it's Marika that doing the work, since its the tarnishedt that are tied to her and the old era of the erdtree. Plus we do get called, "an agent of Marika" in the DLC. This also lines up with us not having any other choice but to become elden lord, all endings get us there. Even the frenzy flame ending, which I suspect Marika did try to account for with Melina surviving, assuming we don't approach from a roundabout way. Which even then, the sites don't vanish, so we still retain the favor.
Great video as always. You consistently make interesting discussions that captivate my brain and your lore videos have been among my hyper fixations for a long while. The lore surrounding Marika's ascension is still confusing for me and there's lots of different interpretations that I have seen. I've been wondering if Marika was actually chosen to be a god or "Saint" by the Hornsent. We see the jar jails and them melding these people (along with the Shamans) together so they can reach this "sainthood." We also see at the Gate of Divinity all of these corpses brought together, so it might be that bringing flesh into this crucible invokes divinity as with the jars invoking this "sainthood." It would make sense as to why she managed to gain access to the Gate of Divinity if she was deemed a "saint" by them or divine in some way due to her Shaman flesh and she was the key agent to bind it all together. Also, I think it would explain the betrayal thread if Marika instead used that newfound godly power to establish the Erdtree and later attack the Hornsent. The "Numen" are supposed denizens of another land, so it might be that she used her new divine powers to migrate away from traditionally Hornsent land and, as I said before, then establish the Erdtree. I might be over thinking this, but I thought I'd share. Anyway, please enjoy your break. You deserve it! :)
He said during the beginning something like "Your first playthroughs ending shows what you believe in." I'm just sitting here like 👀 my b guess I believe in pure chaos and nothingness whoopsies lmao
I like this focus on thematics and overall narrative rather than nitty gritty lore stuff. Elden Ring is a story that is oftentimes essentially told through poetry rather than what we might think of as “lore”
I think this is wonderful Analysis. I think Marika noticed Radagon was messing with her Idea of the world and hence why she reached out to us the tarnished to let us select the course, as she was aware her actions had severe consequences. This leads to us being guided by grace to stop Miquella as Marika knows he will end up the same as her; especially in my mind, St Trina would have tried to stop him through another vessel.
One thing I found interesting about Ranni's ending is the item description for the spirit ashes of Demi-Human Swordsman Yosh. "Onze, a master swordsman who devoted himself to the Star-Lined Sword, realized that only ruin awaited at the end of the procession of stars, and imprisoned himself in order to forestall it." Ranni says herself that that her order would be one of the stars guided by the moon. Does that mean only ruin awaits her?
I believe that if Ranni went to the stars by herself, her age would 100% be doomed. If the gods are so similar to men, then it’s reasonable that Ranni more than likely wouldn’t survive 1000 years in total isolation. Nothing tells us what Yosh’s training entailed but if the age of stars is characterized fear, doubt and loneliness then maybe there might be some similarities between them? The other interpretation i had was that, tho long lived, stars don’t last forever and will eventually go out in dramatic explosion. So maybe he’s trying to forestall his eventual downfall/death?
elden ring to me is what lies in the unseen and unnoticed, marika and her lore is a very small part of this world that has existed way before her and there are things only the people who made the game know. elden ring is about the history of a world that lives and breathes.
Great video! Also on the final fight with Miquella ... he already has a lord. So there's no ending where you could have allied with him to take the throne. Your ambitions and your principles cannot exist alongside his.
Great seeing another lore video! I'm also inbetween both main game/DLC so really appreciate the lore , So asking alot of questions. But I still have the theory we're would the lands between/lands of shadow be would they be together or side by side like with Bayle & Volcano manner or in the mountaintops of the giants. I don't but it's just speculation also great lore video by the way but not finished it yet :)
Thanks so much for watching my Video on Elden Ring's Themes and Philosophy, let me know your thoughts below
@@COHOFSohamSengupta It's a redo of Alexandre Cabanel's Painting of 'Fallen Angel'
@@SmoughTowndo you have a link for the artwork?
@@jeangale6914 I just posted it on my twitter
Isn't it confirmed that the neither the greater will or the fingers are controlling the grace our tarnished see?
Grace guides us to burn down the erdtree and unleash destined death, which Enia says "Unleashing the rune now would be unthinkable...
The Fingers would never permit it. Nor would the Greater Will."
I'm almost certain Marika guides the tarnished. The Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between when it left the demigods. The fingers insist it hasn't because grace is still around, but once grace leads us to burn the tree, the Fingers are stunned into calling the greater will directly. It's because the fingers didn't know Marika took the tarnished grace, so now she's controlling it.
I can't wait to watch this! I'm sure I'll have some crazy theories to post in the comments, as usual.
Soulslore Seekers at the end of every lorethrough:
"There is no path. Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark... what could possibly await us? And yet, we seek it, insatiably... Such is our fate."
Truth
Aldia truly was a scholar.
Ashen one. Heareth thou me still?
The duality angle goes so deep. Every animal is two animals: the lobsters have shrimp arms, the penguins fly like seagulls, the sheep roll like armadillos, etc. Every demigod is two beings fused together: Godfry and Serosh, Radahn and Leonard/Miquella, Rykard and the Big Snake, Malenia and the Outer God of Rot, and so on. Brilliant video man. I can't imagine how much work must have gone into it.
That is not a penguin, that's a Guillemot which is a real animal and flies exactly like that. Beyond that, you might have a point.
I would add that the DLC is particular deals a lot with parenthood; especially rejection.
The Greater Will abandoned Metyr and by extension the wider world; almost certainly sowing the seed for the Frenzy Flame and it's truth. Marika abandons basically all her children, rejecting them for flaws outside their control. Forager Brood are likewise abandoned by Malenia, who rejects them, even when it was her explicit choice (to unleash the Scarlet Rot) that gave birth to them. Just a long chain of people being abandoned or rejected by their progenitors.
To me, elden ring is a lesson in despair. Not just from the characters succumbing to it, but also you yourself as the player. Everyone from the gods to the lowest depths of the gaols are in a desperate struggle against despair. Whether embracing it, rising above it, or choosing to reject it all, in the end its all about what your answer is in the face of such pervasive and overwhelming despair and struggle. What kind of Lord could claim such a broken world
I just think that one of the greatest themes of Elden Ring is fate. Ranni seems like a perfect examples of rebellion, but she is based on Loki from norse mythology. Loki killing baldur and beginning the age of men was not an act of rebellion. Loki just thought it was an act of rebellion, because he was a rebellious chaotic person. But the death of baldur was written into the fate of the world. It was always destined to happen by the greater will of the universe. I almost wonder, did Ranni really even avoid her fate? If the two fingers haven't been in contact with the greater will in millenia, then how can we be sure that severing herself of her two fingers would even sever her fate from the greater will. I honestly think that the death of Godwin and Ranni was written into the fabric of fate. So Ranni's act wasn't a rebellion against fate, but Marika's sealing of the rune of death and trying to save the demi gods was the actual act of rebellion. Trying to rebel against a fate that she knew she couldn't stop. All in hopes of saving her children and ruling forever. But, no matter what Marika does, Ranni will always kill Godwyn and, as Ansbach says, the world will change with the rising of " a lord not for gods, but for men." The age of men begins, lead by a witch who wants to give everyone their freedom. Their are so many other cool ties of norse mythology and fate in elden ring, but i am convinced that this is the most interesting.
This is some subtle Ranni propaganda at the end
@@Theanimeisforme nah it's not propaganda. Ranni's ending was just very poorly translated. It was even covered on this channel. By separating the elden ring from the lands between, the gods cannot influence people. So everyone becomes more free to self determin their own lives, instead of being at the mercy of gods they cannot begin to understand
Why should removing the Elden ring from the lands between end the influence of the outer gods ?
@@bluebird2217 because the elden ring controls the fundamentals of the world. Light, dark, life, death, it can emblem beings with strength. The greater will and 2 fingers only have power over tge lands between because their god, Marika, is also the vessel of the elden ring. So she can control who lives, who dies and who is deserving of purpose or "grace" in the world. If you removing the elden ring, and no gods can control it, then no gods can control people.
@@borisdragosani7584 I wasn't talking about Marika or the empyreans. I was refering to the outer gods like the scarlet rot or frenzied flame, who likely continue to persist despite the removal of the elden ring.
Besides that the elden ring's power isn't total. Those that live in death and the followers of frenzied flame exist during her reign, despite Marika wishes. She can't will them out of existance and has to send her own followers to destroy them.
For me the Frenzied Flame ending is probably the greatest trick the game can pull on seasoned fromsoft fans. An entity that espouses the sort of anarchist-esque rhetoric about breaking cycles and imposed orders in the name of chaos and freedom, and through the mouths of the downtrodden- that any player privy to how the Greater Will has tyrannically subjugated the world as well as skeptical of how the other cosmic forces (Moons, Primeval Current, Formless Mother, even the forces of Living-Death) also show themselves to be little to no better orders would eventually follow the logic to its most frenzied conclusion. It makes you overlook or not connect the intense suffering & loss of faculty of those inhabited by the flame, the fact that it also speaks through a finger vassal + maiden, the way it's stated to permanently burn away even souls, how it steals bodies to speak for it, or how your success as lord of frenzy leads to the burning of masses of souls who didn't know/ask for/consent to it as it asserts it's own order of chaos. Chaos uses the promise of freedom to take the world.
The theme of ambition in Elden Ring is pretty pertinent, as every one of the characters have their own flame of ambition and its shown how they manage them, some are consumed by it, others the flame has dwindled completely.
It tries to show who far you are willing to go to fulfill your ambition/objectives, how many bodies you will pile and how bloody your path will be in order to reach your end.
Great video Geoff, another banger as usual, can’t wait for the next one, have a good weekend my fellow and don’t you dare go hollow
Thanks my friend, hope you have a lovely weekend as well!
So cool that despite being a mostly lore channel you analysed and interpreted overarching themes and messages behind Elden Ring. Fascinating video
Much appreciated my friend - have wanted to do this for a while
6:46 okay at this point I am CONVINCED you try to fit these lines into every video
The albinauric bloodclot might be the greatest lore item in the game but Ranni talking about empyreans might be the best lore dialogue in the game
Damm i just have to say thats probably the coolest thumbnail ive seen!
Blood for the blood god!
Smoughtown!!!! Another upload that made the day a little brighter. I hope you're well and thank you for all the hours you've kept my mind quiet
My pleasure! So pleased you enjoy my content and that it helps. I am all good! This one just took a lot of work tbh But very happy with it
Fallen angel mohg goes hard
"It is better to rule in Hell, then it is to serve in Heaven."
It’s impossible for SmoughTown not to produce a banger, it can’t be done
Too kind my friend - really hope you enjoy this one too!
This video is anything but a "banger". He keeps mentioning the Two Fingers, they stop being a factor halfway through the base game. You kill their mother in the dlc, they are finished. The Greater Will left for cigarettes a long time ago. The dlc confirms the guidance of grace is Queen Marika's doing, guiding strong willed and ambitious Tarnished to wipe the slate clean and bring about a new age because she knows she fucked up. The main theme is ambition, and the cicle of violence that follows it.
"What does it all mean!? You choose to be nothing!? AAAAA-" - Odin
I just saw this scene for the first time, nice timing!
Don’t know what this is from, but sounds like something I would say.
Ragnarok is such a good story but my god that line read was unintentionally HILARIOUS, imo.
@@vikingbeastodin it’s from god of war ragnarok
I can hear the sound effect
I just want to point something out that I think is REALLY important but seemingly never talked about; the sealing tree _doesn't_ look like the scadutree, or rather, it _only_ looks like the part of the scadutree that seems to be "choking" the other part of the tree which is growing straight upwards. Go look at the scadutree and the sealing tree again, it's irrefutable. I have no idea what the lore implications of this are, but it seems _really_ important, and nobody has dug into this. Great video as usual!
I am just here to say that I am so happy that after one year that my xbox died with Dark Souls 1, a technician managed to repair it and I can replay it again
Carry on chosen undead, thy hollowing is not an option this time
And don't you dare go hollow
Fantastic work. Feels like a culmination of many years of introspection and retrospection has led to this point of singular, excellent review. Miyazaki and the Fromsoft team have truly crafted an experience worth memory.
Ahh, perfect timing.
I think I’m going to have myself a nap. The only thing to do really, after a good Elden Ring lore video.
54:54 Funnily enough I do believe the DLC gives us an answer to this.
Since "Shadow of the Erdtree" came out there has been a question sort of hanging in the back of the community: why does Miquella not get his own ending?
From a meta-perspective you could argue that this could create problems with the DLC potentially being approached in the post-game, but this doesn't seem like a particularly strong justification to me. Especially considering that you can reach the DLC via Varré's quest in less than two hours of game-time.
I would argue that there has to be a narrative reason for why the "age of compassion" is something for us to stop. What is Miquella doing wrong that Ranni is doing right? Why is Miquella positioned as the antagonist, where Ranni is an ally?
And I believe the key lies with a perhaps unexpected character: Ymir. When asked about Miquella he says:
"Ever-young Miquella saw things for what they were. He knew that his bloodline was tainted. His roots mired in madness. A tragedy if ever there was one. That he would feel compelled to renounce everything. When the blame... lay squarely with the mother."
As mentioned in this video, the free will of Empyreans is at best tenuous, as their flesh allows the Two Fingers some measure of control over them. And we see that the parentage of the demigods in general carries heavy influence. All of them inherit something, be it Rennala's sorcerous aptitude, Radagon's red hair and battle prowess, or Marika's connection to the divine. It's an interestingly literal take on the concept of legacy, the idea that you in some way live on through your children.
Miquella wanted to create a kind world, one in which everyone would be embraced and no one would be rejected. But he is the scion of a system built on rejection. While the game does point out the relative openness of the early Golden Order, its very foundations are built upon Marika's rejection of Death, which eventually spirals into the xenophobic, tyrannical, and genocidal regime of the present.
Miquella understood that he had to reject this part of himself. There is a fundamental contradiction at play here. How can he build a world free of rejection, if he has to reject a part of himself to become a god?
Just like Marika, the foundations of his "age of compassion" are at odds with each other. Hence he is most likely doomed to repeat the cycle, despite all his desires to avoid this.
By contrast, Ranni rejects the broken system at a macroscopic level and proposes something entirely new, a truly meaningful change. It will be a difficult journey for her, and for you should you choose to follow her. Lonely, terrifying, with yourselves as the only guide. But there is hope for true change, for creating a better world than the one that came before.
To me, Miquella represents the insidious cruelty of benevolent but misguided ideals. He is committing the same sin his mother did, albeit in less violent way; both seduced and manipulated their way to godhood. While some rule by the sword, others do it with their charm. If conflict is in Man's nature, one cannot achieve a "gentler" world without unprecedented levels of tyranny and subjugation. In other words, Miquella would have to strip humanity of its free will to achieve his goal, an easy feat for him given his divine charm - make everyone so infatuated with him that they would do his every bidding.
How can you guide a 1000 year voyage of compassion when you've discarded your love?
@@Based_investor Where does the game say that she discarded her love? Afaik she has slightly different dialogue with her at the end if you visit her chambers after the quest. Said dialogue change points at the opposite of what you suggest.
@@Based_investor I see the community-wide inability to understand Trina remains in full effect here.
@@pinnacleevolution1634He's talking about Miquella.
Hey Smoughtown, I just wanted to say that I’m really grateful for your lore videos. It’s just so relaxing to listen to you and learn new story details about ER
Means the world to me, thank you so much for the kind support, keeps me going!
@@SmoughTownI just realized you also have buymeacoffe and patreon account. What's the best way to support you, i.e. where do you get the most amount? I'd imagine yt takes a rather large share from the memberships subscriptions
@@TWIDDL3that’s really kind my friend, honestly I’m already super grateful for the membership. Means so much but if you felt the need then buy me a coffee is a great place!
This might be the best video ever made that answers what Elden Ring is actually about.
Really appreciate that my friend! Glad you found value in it
Beautiful video and so well told. What a game - ER worthy of being one of the best games of the decade
Much appreciated - couldn't agree more
I truly appreciate your upload schedule. I had just started reviewing my notes, and this was the perfect video to watch while doing so. Once again, you are the greatest lore channel on this platform, and I thank you for contributing so much to the community!!
That's super kind of you! Really humbled you think so highly of my content and really hope you enjoy this one
Duality was definitely a theme I found in the base game, but I think if we’re looking at only Shadow of the Erdtree, I also saw the theme of Motherhood in a lot of questlines/plotlines.
The Lands Between seem to be largely matriarchical and it has a lot of death/rebirth imagery in it. Not as much as Bloodborne obviously, but it's there. In a way you could view Miquella casting off Saint Trina as yet another act of defiance against the Two Fingers. Even the Two Fingers spawn from their mother Metyr who is ultimately telling them what it thinks is the Greater Will's messages.
I agree. In a way its almost like a flip side to bloodborne. Bloodborne had a visceral femininity to it for lack of a better term. It highlighted the horrors of motherhood. But elden ring isn't as generous, blatantly portraying marika as a bad mother who betrays and abandons her children. Then there's ymir and metyr who're both representative of failed parenthood, those who lost their children or had malformed children. Edgar and Irina too, with edgar going mad from his failure as a father. In ER it is an unspoken but harsh critique of the sins of the father/mother and the suffering they forced upon the ones they brought into the world
@@TheBitingBat I also think it’s a very “human” approach to telling the failures of motherhood. Marika’s themes of abandonment and motherhood aren’t of an alien force (unless you talk about Metyr, but im specifically referring to Marika and her story). It is a classic tale of a tragedy a mother had to face, then upturning her trauma into an emotion. The fingers saw this emotion in her, and manipulated it. They saw a mother who greaves, but who was also capable of becoming a powerful God. And so it was then when the fingers decided to advise her through her acts of horror, genocide, to gain Godhood through the force of the trauma that Marika suffered. It’s an emotion. An emotion that would ruin the world as we see it. An emotion that Marika, herself, would see by the end. The realisation that her acts of emotion never made her fit to be God at all. That she was just a pawn in the Greater Will’s game. Now we know that EVEN Marika had been lied to by the Fingers about the Greater Will’s nature. That’s why she would shatter the Ring.
I always refer to the game as Miyazaki's Prophecy of Fire, if we always fight, the world will burn. Frenzy, or even fighting a literal manifestation of peace, crucifying people for their shortcomings, conspiring to greatness, will always end in naught, a Tarnished victory even.
That being said, you nailed it brother, thank you.
Thank you my friend
I am impressed by the way you portrait the meaning of all this. Great work, it must have been difficult. In my opinion your best video on Elden Ring.
Means the world to me - was a difficult video tbh!
How do you always release these when I’m going for a walk? Perfect timing! I can’t wait ❤
Haha great timing! Enjoy the walk!
Always a treat to see a Smoughtown video in my feed, my sleep quality stonks will now skyrocket the next week 🫡❤️
Sleep aside, Thank you again for all this excellent content. The quality you have in your writing and production is impecabble! Hats off as always for you Smougeoff 🎉
Always appreciate your support Benis! So pleased that you enjoyed the video! Have a great weekend
I just noticed that Ansbach literally says that the eye is something important for Miquella's heritage - to be an empyrian, which is kinda odd to be that specific. Ranni also seems to be missing an eye/have her eye sealed, indicating that a graced eye is one of the prerequisites to become an empyrian as she is one. Melina also has her eye sealed, which may imply that she is/was an empyrian herself.
Have recently gone deaf, dedicated subtitles would be a nice addition. ❤
ACCESSIBILITY OPTIONS FOR THE WIN 🔥🔥
Also, I'm so sorry that you went deaf, wishing you the best my guy
I’ve seen every single one of your videos but this one is a highlight! I had never put together all the different philosophies in Elden ring as they relate to the player and also real life philosophy but thsi video finally put all the pieces together, amazing stuff!
Thank you so much, really appreciate the support and kind words. So pleased you enjoyed the video - I liked working on this one a lot!
Another amazing video! Really loved the deep introspection between how much the player knows growing with how much our in-game character knows.
One point I want to push back on is when you said that Marika tolerated the existence of the Hornsent for a time while the Golden Order existed. The Festive Grease doesn't say that Marika tolerated the Hornsent; only that the Erdtree (which, in my opinion, lines up more with the desires of the Greater Will) tolerated their existence. This lines up with what we know about the Greater Will; it doesn't care what kind of order exists, as long as order does exist.
Moving onto speculation territory, I believe this is what Leda meant when she talks about the seduction and betrayal of Marika. Marika promised them a time of plenty, seducing them with great wealth and abundance if they bowed down to the Golden Order. And so, the Hornsent did, only to have their entire culture and existence burned away from history. This was Marika's betrayal.
Again, another amazing video! And let me know what you think about this speculation.
the funny think is that it not even the desires of the greater will, the greater will peace's out way before then, it just the fingers and their weird mom pulling the strings.
I like how the Radahn Miquella combo makes so much sense of other lore. In particular, I think when Miquella found out about Ranni's plot to ascend to godhood, he convinced Radahn to halt the movement of the stars and stall Ranni so Miquella and Radahn could do it first. Even if Radahn isn't following Miquella, Miquella could have tricked Radahn that his home town was under threat by the falling star and got him to scourge the stars that way. Either way makes sense and makes the Ranni vs. Miquella race to godhood that much more interesting
I always drifted towards the cycle of violence but more specifically the fall of empires. The intro cutscene line "the fallen leaves tell a story" was evocative for me. Obviously referring to the Erdtree and the fall of its era but applying that line to the whole game is the story of failure and how the leaves fall tells the story of death (winter)
I do think freedom is at the core of this since that was a big design concept for the game and so it fits so well that fromsoft made that a core tenant of the mythos and lore
20:42 I really appreciate that you represent goldmask’s ending charitably instead of flatly asserting that he opposes free will without sufficient evidence.
Oh that thumbnail... 😗
I don't know how many artists have drawn Mohg with that particular image in mind but I am gobbling it up. 😅
Well done, first of all. I think Elden Ring, among all else that it touches on, is a commentary on the History of the Catholic Church. Most specifically with Marika as the figuretype of the Church, as she is the "god" that expresses the intent of the Greater Will. In Theology, God is described as a rising spiral, and the well of life.
Lot more to touch on, but that that's the key points. Elden Ring is a phenomenal philosophical exercise 😊😊
Banger, after banger, after banger! Love your videos, been waiting for this one
Thanks my friend, really appreciate the support
I adore your work man, inspire my creativity
Thanks my friend - so happy my content helps you create awesome art!
Another banger video Smough. Hope you make more like this. It’s amazing how games often believed to not have any story can have some of the most impactful storytelling in any media
this is amazing! i would love to see a philosophical analysis of Dark Souls and Bloodborne as well :)
Ranni is one of the biggest monsters in the series. Her actions led to the Shattering, damning the world with scarlet rot and deathroot. There is no justification for that.
Thank you for making such a thoughtful video! Elden Ring is such a deep and layered game.
Elden Ring and Fear and Hunger are the most impressive games for their esoteric literacy. The main thrust of Fear and Hunger, to me, is that Godhood is a "trap." The same thing that Saint Trina says.
I feel that Elden Ring is Miyazaki's Occult magnum opus. A work that grapples with what it means to have soul, destiny, and the nature of divinity.
Elden Ring is akin to an Alchemical grimoire. Elden Ring is a coded text that is about the reader. Like other Alchemical texts, it is about how the individual practicer combines the divine feminine and divine masculine within themselves to transcend physical reality.
Like Enoch in the bible.
The Bible says that God "took him" and that he "did not see death" (Genesis 5:21-24, Hebrews 11:5)
For Occultist, Enoch is an example of successful spiritual transcendance.
But Marika and a male hornsent are both crucified like Jesus. This represents how in the Lands Between both principles of divine masculine and divine feminine are misunderstood are corrupted.
So, idk. I really think the logic of this game is Alchemical grimoire steeped in the Christian Gnostic tradition. Like, Gwendolyn in Dark Souls is an Abraxas reference, which is an important Gnostic diety that combines the Dualistic nature of reality into a single vessel. Sorry to rant!
I probably have the most abstract views on elden ring...
For me, Elden Ring is a reflection on life, humanity, and humans as a species. Elden Ring can also be translated to Fire ring, since elden means fire in norse - and the making and use of fire is the only thing that is truly unique to humans. Human hands and fingers evolved because our ancestors started climbing trees, which could explain why fingers and trees are having god-like powers in the game. Fingers in Elden Ring could also refer to the creating human hands, that not only sculpting things out of clay, but also could be the writing hands of someone creating a story, literally manipulating every character like puppets - hence the puppetry theme in elden ring could be explained by this, as the Fingers could be a higher power, creating a story. It could translate to real life, as sometimes we could feel like we are characters in a story and there is maybe a higher power, a god or an alien that controls it, and having amusement in seeing our life story unfold. Life is a stage, and we are all actors in it - just look at how Ranni's face resembles the mask symbols of theatre.
Ranni discarding her body could also refer to gaining true free will that is independent of one's body. There is real science and philosophies related to how our bodies control our behaviour through chemicals, and we are often unaware of it. I find the theme of body and mind and their separation in elden ring super interesting. Even Ansbach points out that "Thiollier appears to be weak in both body and mind" - yet he still fights and joins you to face the hardest boss in the game, highlighting a third element: "The fighting spirit" - or "stamina." This green theme of stamina and fighting spirit can also be observed in Midra ( you can find the stamina talisman on the way towards him ) - a man who is enduring immense pain and staying alive despite of it.
The theme of body and mind can be further translated into the talismans you pick up upon completing Ymir's questline, as you get the seed talismans upon blowing into the hanging pickles..... if red, the HP, translates to "Body", and the blue, mana increasing talisman translates to "Mind", then the duality of the two can be an important thing in the process of creaton and "birth giving" by the greater will / cosmic mother.
There is also a strong theme between humanity and animals. What discerns humans from animals, and it shows how the old ways are getting looked down upon by the order - the modern civilization. In elden ring and real life, the way of the humble, animal life is getting oppressed.
The theme of animals becoming humans is the strongest in Farum azula, where the beastman obtains fingers: the thing that allows them to create tools and become intelligent, human like. Or the way the Order is executing "omen-born" people with horns. Horns and animal features are representing the original, old way of living in both the game and in life. I'm also sad to see this in real life as well. For example, I would much prefer to ride on horses than having noisy cars on the road that pollutes the environment. But if I would start riding a horse around, the current order would be against me. Its also getting more difficult for humans to hunt and forage for food, making us rely on money. I would rather hunt for food or keep animals, than work for money. In shadow of the erdtree, there is many themes of "forager broods", foraging and hunting, and animal-like, humble living: All the things that are being wiped out and shunned by the Order. ( for example the shadow enemies with baskets only drop foraged items, mushrooms and weeds. )
A world without death, is a world without love:
The theme of life and death is also super interesting and sad in Elden Ring, since Queen Marika made it so there is no death exist in under her rule, so everyone lives eternal lives. However, eternal life resulting not needing to reproduce, therefore no love, no births, no mothers. Hence why many characters in this game suffers in sort of an existential crisis, not understanding their "purpose" in their life - or rather and most interestingly, their purpose in the "story", as a character. Maybe could be literally, if we consider that the Fingers are truly writing the story of elden ring. - Ironically, there is a loss of purpose in life if there is no death, and no need to reproduce, no need for love.
The Greater Will could be this power in ER, which created life within and perhaps its the controller of the story. Through Ymir, I think its revealed that the Greater Will is a mother, the cosmic creator of all things. He and the Mother finger also features black holes, saying black holes are like the womb of the universe. And its very likely true in reality as well, since our universe, space is nestled inside the same chaotic material that is inside black holes, where no space could exist. ( since black holes are like the holes in a cheese, air pockets that represents the outside world ) So the theme of a Mother also comes up again here: Who created us, who birthed us "Everyone needs a mother" - as Ymir says, as he gets obsessed - or perhaps even possessed - by the Mother Fingers. Therefore, we can say that the cosmic chaos area that is outside of our universe could be the ultimate mother of everything, and we thrive to understand why she created us, what is our purpose. I personally believe the world and life was came to existence naturally, but sometimes I play around with the idea if there is a consciousness behind it.
Order and chaos could also refer to heat and cold, since in real life, particles organize into order to create heat and therefore life, but eventually everything turns back into disorder - antrophy - as everything eventually cools down. Chaos could also refer to the beginning of the universe, after the big bang there was literally one big mass of heat - the universe looked similar to the sky you can see in the frenzied flame ending -. And ironically, chaos is what inevitably our ordered world will return into, just think about for example to the fact that eventually our planet will be scorched to death by the heat of the sun as it enters to the end of its life. The notion of this could drive one crazy, thinking life is ending anyways, and everything is pointless. Frenzied flame is also the symbol of pain itself. As someone who experienced extreme pain before, it feels like your head is melting by fire as you almost loosing your mind, feeling similar to how the lord of frenzied flame's head looks like. The Frenzied Flame ending is about giving up, and submitting to the inevitable end: The sun will burn earth, and its better to stop births so they wont suffer the end.
I consider Ranni's ending the opposite. In her ending, the cold, logical mind wins. It could translate to humanity saving itself from the heat of the dying sun, using their intelligence to build spaceships for example, and travel to another planet. "A thousand year voyage" through space, if you will.
Literally better philosophical content than the majority of philosophy channels on YT.
I've long though this clash of philosophies and ideologies is the heart of the game's themes, and that Miriel comes closes to outright stating what Miyazaki's trying to say. I'd add that I think it's symbolically important that blessings flowed from the Erdtree while the sap was fluid and flexible and stopped when it became solidified, rigid and hard. I'd also say that there's a lot of people in the lore community who seem to have a positive read on the Fundamentalists (many emphasizing only that they were scholars, even framing them as scientists or natural philosiphers-people who really like Goldmask are particularly prone to this read, which I think is interesting because Goldmask reads to me as a post-fundamentalist reformer). Religious fundamentalism as it's experienced in the real world is usually based on a selective read of holy texts and mystical knowledge to come to pre-conceived conclusions occasionally leading to some of the worst excesses religious violence in the real world. People who believe they've figured out the system of the world and have a simple prescription for human behavior are dangerous, and I appreciate that you're bringing those more negative aspects up here. I think it's no accident that one of the first things we see when we enter the lands between is people being crucified.
Just pre ordered Grace Given, I am so unbelievably excited
You thank you so much! Means the absolute world to me
@@SmoughTownAny word on a more concrete release date (another excited buyer here)? I have seen 2025 being bandied about...
@@SmoughTown you’re beyond welcome mate, cheers for making amazing content
My glorious king luminary Mohg appears on yet another thumbnail
Hahah - he's taking over
What a glorious day. We got a SmoughTown masterpiece deep dive video AND an album worth of Dark Souls 3 synthwave boss music covers by CthulhuSeeker.
Let's gooooooo!
Incredible video Smough !! My comment will be simple I loved every seconds of your videos in general and this one. Editing, explanations, speculations and giving credits always where it is due. Loved your channel for years now and i cant wait for whatever you are planning next !! Good day mate :) and take care ❤
Awe yes perfect way to start the weekend you've done it again smoughtown impeccable timing as usual
Thanks bud, hope you enjoy and have a great weekend!
Wow ! A full analysis of the meaning of the lore Elden Ring !? Insanely good to think about and watch, Smough.
the man's still the best elden lore youtuber - nicely done!
I've been learning about Buddhism recently and it strikes me how often the theme of some sort of "release" from reality comes up in FromSoftware games. From what I've learned about Buddhism, one of its core tenets is that reality IS suffering, and that release from reality is the final purpose of mankind. In Dark Souls 3 the abyss is expressly framed as non-existence and is heralded as a blessing by those who follow it. In Elden Ring the frenzied flame is feared by most because it is the power of non-existence but also seen as a blessing by those who have found the "truth" of reality. It's not something I'm studied enough in to make any sort of final conclusion, but it's made me look at these games in a very different way.
The thing I always think about with regard to miquella and how he creates a perfect world at the cost of the NPCs autonomy is that it's the good ending. not that it's the best ending for elden ring in particular, but that it's the good ending of every other rpg-- you as the player make all the "sacrifices", all the npcs love you, and you walk away from the game to never think about them again when you're congratulated and told everything worked out.
I appreciate this game as a piece of art much more now than before I watched this video, so thank you Smough!
GRRM put it nicely in GOT, “Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones”
I believe that the evolution of Miyazaki's ideas from Dark Souls to this title has been one of reconsidering many parts of his cosmology. It almost seems to me as if he has been exploring different takes on topics he was already interested in and wanted to represent them interacting with one another in a sort of dialectical confrontation, where the player acts as the voice of the individual that has to balance each opinion and decide whose side he is going to take just as in our own world.
I thoroughly enjoy this excercise of intellectual challenge and think it really helps us put in perspective the inner debates we have to face when confronted with the mixture of ideologies that fight to gain our support in our increasingly segmented world.
Anyways, I think you have made a wonderful job of laying these themes out for the neverending discussions these games spark for us and I love it.
The man, the goat arrives to grace is work more Elden Ring. Love your content and your analyses.
Mohg depicted as the devil from the painting «The Fallen Angel» is so cool
YES! SmoughTown upload! My favorite time of the month
I love these lore videos! You make great content man! 🔥
Thank you my friend! Glad you enjoyed
I’ll never forget the point of my first play through that decided my choice of the ending. Hyetta’s subtle influences across my journey planted the seeds of doubt in the golden order, and when embraced by the Three Fingers, her divination of their words completely lined up with my ideals. Such a huge lore bomb when she began with “All that there is came from the One Great….” My wretch, coming from nothing, having no particular build (jack of all trades) or allegiances, despised this fact. If we harmoniously lived as one before, why is it viewed as the “bad ending” to burn it all away and become one once more? Melina’s pleas fell to deaf ears, as I let chaos take the world.
Solid video (as always) and awesome points with player autonomy, I couldn’t agree with you more man.
One of my favorite vdo from you. So detailed and everything makes so much sense.
That thumbnail is magnificent.
For the coming of our Dynasty! Bless it with *Love!* *Mohgwyn!*
I think Elden Ring as a whole is meant to be a tragedy. Which is why it has so many messages and themes.
The game has so many references to history and mythology. That it's like visiting the home of the greek gods and finding it in ruins.
Not bad Smough! Can’t wait for your analysis on Metyr! I truly think that’s the most pivotal and wtf revelation in the base lore
Saw this on feed right as I was about to sleep! Now I'm gonna sleep late again
Thank you for this; I hate to pit two bad bitches against each other but I recently became disillusioned with Vaati because he kept refusing to engage with visual and textual metaphor; at least this was the case last I checked in on him with his AC6 vid which was super disappointing.
Vaati has specialised in *entry level lore* imo, and there's nothing wrong with that.
His content used to be a blend of theory and recaps, but over time his content has become solely focused on recapping Fromsoft's vague stories with minimal interpretation.
While at first I dislike this direction, I've come to appreciate his objective recap approach and abandonment of theory videos. I love the theory crafting side of the fandom the most, but that's exactly why Vaati's content plays such an important role despite how basic it might be: it gives us Avery thorough rundown of facts to form the foundations of our theories
@@Practicallypreposterous Agreed. Vaati is the stepping stone for most people into the more esotheric theories--it was for me! Once you realize that the community as a whole has many creators all within their niche, your holistic enjoyment of and engagement with this amazing property increases tenfold
ehh.. I still like Vaati. I agree, his lore analysis is far less robust than others, but that’s what I like about him. Still to this day, despite me loving other creators more, I think he is the ‘BEST’ Loretuber.
Why? It’s because he has the most surface level approach to explaining the systems of the world, allowing for an ease of access into the Lore. This was especially helpful for Elden Ring, where there were many new people who had no idea what the story was. It’d be difficult for them to play something they had no idea about, then going STRAIGHT to a Quelaag video to understand the deep and dense lore beneath the surface before they touched up on some surface level lore beforehand. The second reason is that Vaati simply has the best storyTELLING And production of any lore creator. Bar none. Not close.
I still prefer people like Smough, but we shouldn’t deface Vaati’s videos, because he knows what his videos are. He’s not hiding it.
Listened to this whole thing doing Sunday laundry- thanks Smoug
Oddly, Elden Ring is the game that got me to understand how to write fictional politics. No definitive right or wrong, just different people with different ideas about what should and should not be. Reasons affecting reasons, actions causing actions, and nobody ultimately able or willing to see the entire landscape. Not that it would matter because even if someone tries to pause and sort it all out, to halt the cycle, there's always outside forces of nature that will force the gears to turn anew. To me, Elden Ring isn't about any of it's individual themes but it is about that inter-connectivity and how all of the elements fit together in a wonderful, tragic mess of a narrative... just like the real world.
This video gets my blessing
Amazing as always... thanks for this one
You keep saying the Golden Order doesn’t accept contrivance, but that’s not what Miriel means at all. He’s saying the things found heretical by the golden order are contrived, meaning that heresy isn’t actually heresy, and that it can be conjoined under the golden order.
Yes, he means to say that the Golden Order doesn’t accept “contradictory beliefs/cultures.” The word “contrivance” means construction or creation of something. Heresy itself is a contrivance of the Golden Order: this means things are only subjectively heretical in relation to it; heresy is not objective to the true Nature of the world.
Just in time for work
Peak just dropped
This is an amazing video!
I’m still on ranni’s ending in the end.
“A world ruled without gods.”
that's just gold mask end but with the stars/moon in a greater position as she says herself "lf that that her order would be one of the stars guided by the moon."
Love your content smough, keep up the great work ❤
Much appreciated my friend, I will do! Thanks for the support
Cool video. I cant wait till your book comes out.
Much appreciated! I can't wait either
Before I watch this i just want to say a theme I still have yet to see anyone really talk about is the cycle of addiction. We as players come in to a world that has lost its grace, the one thing that made everything better, the thing the people of the lands between would do ANYTHING for that feeling just one more time. Then theres the perfumers which just outright say became addicted to their own products.
I don't agree on the fingers controlling the sites of grace. Mostly since we still see the sites no matter what, including the Frenzy Flame ending, that technically runs against all their machinations and history. It more likely it's Marika that doing the work, since its the tarnishedt that are tied to her and the old era of the erdtree. Plus we do get called, "an agent of Marika" in the DLC. This also lines up with us not having any other choice but to become elden lord, all endings get us there. Even the frenzy flame ending, which I suspect Marika did try to account for with Melina surviving, assuming we don't approach from a roundabout way. Which even then, the sites don't vanish, so we still retain the favor.
Absolutely amazing video!!
Cheers bud! Thanks so much for all the support
Great video as always. You consistently make interesting discussions that captivate my brain and your lore videos have been among my hyper fixations for a long while.
The lore surrounding Marika's ascension is still confusing for me and there's lots of different interpretations that I have seen. I've been wondering if Marika was actually chosen to be a god or "Saint" by the Hornsent. We see the jar jails and them melding these people (along with the Shamans) together so they can reach this "sainthood." We also see at the Gate of Divinity all of these corpses brought together, so it might be that bringing flesh into this crucible invokes divinity as with the jars invoking this "sainthood." It would make sense as to why she managed to gain access to the Gate of Divinity if she was deemed a "saint" by them or divine in some way due to her Shaman flesh and she was the key agent to bind it all together. Also, I think it would explain the betrayal thread if Marika instead used that newfound godly power to establish the Erdtree and later attack the Hornsent. The "Numen" are supposed denizens of another land, so it might be that she used her new divine powers to migrate away from traditionally Hornsent land and, as I said before, then establish the Erdtree. I might be over thinking this, but I thought I'd share.
Anyway, please enjoy your break. You deserve it! :)
What a beautiful summary!
This felt like I was back in high school in a Social Studies class, but one with a topic that I actually enjoy.
Your vocal fry is especially on point in this video, Smough.
Amazing work 🔥
He said during the beginning something like "Your first playthroughs ending shows what you believe in." I'm just sitting here like 👀 my b guess I believe in pure chaos and nothingness whoopsies lmao
I saw this before, but I was waiting for the time to listen to sleep haha
Thanks for the upload man!
My pleasure! Enjoy!
I like this focus on thematics and overall narrative rather than nitty gritty lore stuff. Elden Ring is a story that is oftentimes essentially told through poetry rather than what we might think of as “lore”
I think this is wonderful Analysis. I think Marika noticed Radagon was messing with her Idea of the world and hence why she reached out to us the tarnished to let us select the course, as she was aware her actions had severe consequences. This leads to us being guided by grace to stop Miquella as Marika knows he will end up the same as her; especially in my mind, St Trina would have tried to stop him through another vessel.
One thing I found interesting about Ranni's ending is the item description for the spirit ashes of Demi-Human Swordsman Yosh. "Onze, a master swordsman who devoted himself to the Star-Lined Sword, realized that only ruin awaited at the end of the procession of stars, and imprisoned himself in order to forestall it." Ranni says herself that that her order would be one of the stars guided by the moon. Does that mean only ruin awaits her?
I believe that if Ranni went to the stars by herself, her age would 100% be doomed. If the gods are so similar to men, then it’s reasonable that Ranni more than likely wouldn’t survive 1000 years in total isolation.
Nothing tells us what Yosh’s training entailed but if the age of stars is characterized fear, doubt and loneliness then maybe there might be some similarities between them?
The other interpretation i had was that, tho long lived, stars don’t last forever and will eventually go out in dramatic explosion. So maybe he’s trying to forestall his eventual downfall/death?
12:52 how comes that NOBODY stated this before??? Waaaa, what a find!😊
A other good vidoe dude keep you rock
Thanks Wesley! You Rock too
elden ring to me is what lies in the unseen and unnoticed, marika and her lore is a very small part of this world that has existed way before her and there are things only the people who made the game know. elden ring is about the history of a world that lives and breathes.
Glad to hear we're still Skadoo-tree'ing it up over here
You know it!
Great video! Also on the final fight with Miquella ... he already has a lord. So there's no ending where you could have allied with him to take the throne. Your ambitions and your principles cannot exist alongside his.
I'm gonna be honest, Elden Ring means to me gay marrying the blue puppet girl every run because she's cool
Great seeing another lore video! I'm also inbetween both main game/DLC so really appreciate the lore , So asking alot of questions.
But I still have the theory we're would the lands between/lands of shadow be would they be together or side by side like with Bayle & Volcano manner or in the mountaintops of the giants.
I don't but it's just speculation also great lore video by the way but not finished it yet :)