Thank you so much for watching my take on Mohg and the Formless Mother, let me know your thoughts in the comments below! Again shout out to Eugenia Lysa for doing the Render Commissions.
In this new world of Ai generated content being everywhere on the internet, it's nice to see you both comission an actual artist and shouting them out as well.
@@SmoughTown I don't know why you'd need one considering your work, but if you ever EVER need a voice actor in Spanish, English or German, I'd love to work with you!! Love your content Geoff
Ansbach's death quote was my motivation against Miquella. Everytime I eard him say that I was inspired to take the challenge again. The fact that someone so loyal to a demigod says those words with his dying breath is really powerfull and recontextualised Elden ring's story to me
@@SmoughTown I had no idea such a line was there. Really excited to play the DLC one day just for that. HOWEVER...as a Goldmask simp I offer an alternative interpretation of his mending rune. I think his argument was less about authoritarianism and more about laws of nature being independent from meddlers. That reality shouldn't bend to what a fickle soul wishes but that we bend to whatever is found to be perfectly sound natural law. Similar to Melina's wish for indiscriminate death. The description also mentions it was "an attempt at perfecting" (so fitting for his character) suggesting that he himself was careful to keep his hands off 'transcendental ideology' meaning. But I do admit Smough brings up good points with the fundamentalists. at @39:07 the description said "many believe" which leaves me curious whether albinaurics are ACTUALLY impure or LITERALLY lacking in the game's writing as opposed to fundamentalist applications. It could be that perfect order does call out objective impurity in omens or albinaurics. Sad? yes. But even if it's true, taking that and (imprisoning, enslaving, ostracizing etc) isn't necessarily a golden order extension but that of man. This is also evidenced in how some Tarnished are able to see and be guided by grace. Who or what system facilitates that? The impartiality would also call out Ansbach's final line. Making it more precise perhaps saying "both gods and man should have lords" But again this is also because I myself took a liking to goldmask's logic.😆 Perhaps the Golden Order is rotten from the core.
@@JOLMStruly Hard to say about the Golden Order since Marika and everyone else in the Golden Order were being led by false and spoon-fed information and even the bearers of that false information were given False, spoon-fed information by their own mother. One thing that's can often be viewed from stories like this is the contradiction that men want, they want free will but at the same time they want something certain to guide them, the Greater Will gave them existence, souls and will with all the good and the bad, but while that was unambiguously a good thing, it did leave them open to seduction by forces that offered them the guidance that the Greater Will never gave.
My theory on what the FM might actually look like is just an everflowing ocean of blood in a far-away void or pocket dimension. Liquids take the form of whatever container they’re stored in. Meaning in the case of the Formless Mother, it has no container to hold it. Allowing it to flow freely in whatever dimension or space it currently exists in. And although it’s stated to have a body that can be pierced, it’s not uncommon for a large amount of liquid to be referred to as a “body.” Usually this is the case for water, but anything with a large enough amount of matter can be referred to as a “body” and not just liquids. This is just a personal take though.
It’s really hard to say. Like Odeon the formless was assumed to effectively not have existed due to the definition of the word formless. An ocean, or glass of water has form. Maybe you could argue they are shapeless. But then, how much are we meant to take formless literally, instead of figuratively/poetically. Also, I suspect, that Odeon is the formless mother eons in the future, perhaps when blood runs dry or rots or has spilt out. Remember, like rom, the formless mother was once a physical being.
@@psychoticbreaks167justletm4 Imagine how strong Mohg would’ve been if he sprayed Vinegar on us instead of Blood. No one would be able to access the DLC.
@@Yharim_The_Impaler Maybe that's why it's so devastating without the right considerations. It's like he's drying out your health pool. Might also be why those red guys always be so salty towards the tarnished. And then you have the sad gray guys, probably depressed about being unseasoned and therefore mid at best.
100% I wish I could Mend the elden ring with something left behind after beating mohg and Varre, then we could see the erdtree burn red and spewing blood everywhere
To expand on this a bit as I had more time with this idea, maybe it’s not so much that they are a wound, but, due to the very nature of their existence, are wounded. Perhaps her ability to commune with Mohg in this way is alluding to the deep pain and trauma he has suffered emotionally. The wounds caused in this way are sometimes vastly more devastating than physical wounds. This would make sense for the Omen and the Albinaurics being associated with her as well and could also be why her followers refer to her as a “mother” of some kind. Whether or not she’s a kindly, loving mother would matter little to those who have been abandoned/tortured/genocided. It also leaves the question of whether she is drawn to them for anything other than to perpetuate the pain and trauma. A 1000 year voyage in blood doesn’t quite have the same ring to it. Edit 1: Well should have watched further to add in the blood fiends but this seems to further solidify this idea. Ill finish the video now 😂
@@5chneemensch138 definitely not the formless mother. Whether Marika was aware of or contacted by/communed with/tempted by any other outer gods seems likely, but I would say all information we have points to her being allied solely with the Greater Will, and with her going to war with the Fire Giants and removal of their stomach-eye, seems there was no room for other gods in Marika’s Golden Order.
When you said Mohg was sponsored by an outer god I immediately pictured him hosting a RUclips channel giving a shout out to the Formless Mother for sponsoring his blood channeling
But first, a word from our sponsor “If you guys are anything like me, you crave wounds. That’s why I’m excited to partner with the formless mother for todays video”
I think the nature of the dynasty can most be shown by Ansbach and Varre. Ansbach was discussed in the video but I think Varre bears mention as his last words show that the people of the dynasty truly do desire a world ruled by Mohg: in his last moments, Varre begs Mohg for power and, after receiving no answer, accepts death and begs Mohg to bring forth the dynasty of blood. Clearly, though cruel and sadistic, Varre believes in Mohg's ideal and wants to see the dynasty come to rise. Another interesting thing and what I think Ansbach means when he blames the charm, Mohg greets us as an "honoured guest" before the fight and his player kill quote is "Miquella is mine and mine alone, for all eternity": Mohg isnt fighting us because he wants to protect his rune or to advance the dynasty, he thinks we are after Miquella and, being charmed, tries to fight ua off. His death quote reveals that, despite the enchantment, Mohg remains true to his ideal: "I can see it, clear as day, the coming of our dynasty", the use pf "our" likely meaning Miquella is counted as part of the dynasty
I disagree on the "our" part. I don't think he means Mikela, not only him at least. He greets us as honored guest, he has multiple followers regarded as novels, he bestows upon us the tittle of "pureblood knight", he is high mighty and fancy, but he shares such aspects with his followers, he never seems to undermine them at all and he seems to be a lord for men. So when he says "our dynasty" i believe he speaks for all of Moghwyn, not just himself and gis consort
The reason that the Formless Mother "craves wounds" is that she craves LESIONS, because Cutaneous horns grow from lesions in the skin when concentrations of keratin compound within a wound, or lesion. The Crucible is literally just keratin, or that which composes hair, horns, fur, wool, scales, feathers, talons, claws, fingernails, and lamprey teeth. This Crucible is opposed to the Chitin Crucible, which composes mushrooms, fungi, insects, crabs, lobsters, scorpions, and kindred of rot. This is also why Man-Flies have lost their keratin horns and have, instead, chitinous carapaces and wings.
@@madmorgo6233 it is also Tree vs Fungi since tree seeds are powered by keratin when they grow and Fungi are made of Chitin. Sunflower seeds have a lot of keratin which is likely why Miquella's discarded rune creates a Sunflower avatar. It also explains why the Potentates use Caterpillar masks to dull their emotions and focus on their duties: because caterpillars are made of Chitin.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 ohh!! That is excellent..! Thank you for your comment and reply 🌞 I've feel like I've learned more from this game than I did in highschool 🤯😅😹 Keratin and Chitin, a curious framing of the classic dichotomy, like the Twinbirds, as above / so below 🤔
@@madmorgo6233 which is likely why the "antlers" in the game are not true antlers (made of calcium), but are said to be "antler-like horns", or keratin. This is likely also why Miquella was obsessed with insectoid transformations. He was attempting to divest himself of Grace and used Chitin first; hence why he has insect cocoons in the Haligtree, why he has insect wings in the official art when Mohg is taking him to his Palace, and why the Cleanrot Knights have insect wings. It is also interesting that the Fingercreepers have warts, warts being concentrations of keratin due to hpv. Metyr's eye is even referred to as "wart-like". I have a personal theory that Metyr gave hands not only to beasts, but the Kindred of Rot. This would explain why they have hands.
It's interesting that the Formless Mother was found in shadow of a tutelary diety, and underground by Mogh. The bloodfiends also seem to gather their blood in dark caves, similar to Mogh's approach. The Erdtree Seal and Cipher Pata are described as formless, but seem to actually be formed from light. Could the Formless Mother be formed from shadow? It seems in keeping with her title as Mother of Truth, someone who seeks to draw out what's hidden (like the blood from your veins).
My headcanon is that Mohg was at an all time, self-hating low and was spilling his own blood in the sewers. That's when, within his blood, he found something special in it. He found the Formless Mother, in the same desperation that the Bloodfiends had. Outer gods are always found when people despair and look for answers outside the current world order.
Formless has a couple different meanings in English. It can mean having no definite shape, lacking order or arrangement, or lacking a physical existence. I wonder how this might have interacted with the translation from Japanese.
@@5chneemensch138 the Frenzied Flame is the purest form of Chaos. It is the enemy of literally everyone else since the rest are all Orders of some kind.
@@SmoughTown actually when you say that in the way your voice sounds you remind me of the RUclips channel bedtime stories. And that is a compliment because they do fantastic work and so do you.
@@SmoughTown I just want to say thank you. You've not only made Elden Ring that much more enjoyable but way easier to understand. On top of that when I'm having bad days your videos take my mind off a lot of bs so for that I just want to say thank you and keep up the great work 💯💯💯
one thing I've always liked about you is you always call out people that help you and people that you've had do other stuff it's very commendable and very noteworthy
37:52 dont apologize for that! I love when you bring up every detail no matter how often. I tend to forget lore details now and then. And it makes a great experience to recall those details again and again. I'm not the only one, I'm sure.
The Man-flies also have an element of Rot. Rot is described as the cycle of death and rebirth put into practice and that is exactly what happens to the Man-flies. Servants of Rot are all immune to the effects of rot too which could explain how those who cared for the Man-flies were unaffected by the disease. In any case, I think the idea that "all things can be conjoined" is demonstrated here. A link between the Formless Mother and the God of Rot which we know at the end of the day can be "conjoined" but are ordered separately within Marika's Era.
Yeah, it definitely also backs up the trend of everything pre-Marika being closer to nature itself, different aspects of a singular thing, a crucible. The DLC does reveal some striking information regarding Blood and Rot together. Edit: To add onto this, the Verdigris material seems to be associated with an Outer God. And given its primary location in Rauh (rot infested lands), and Moore being a rot-friendly merchant, this could also link this metal material to Rot as a different aspect of it, further adding onto the whole “crucible” aspects of the Elementary Outer Gods, pre-Marika. (P.S. Of course, it’s entirely true that the verdigris material Outer God is a different outer god entirely. But given the information, id like to assume it’s more related to a different aspect of ROT)
I personally agree that Rot and Blood can be conjoined. Though Lore doesn't seem to reflect that, what with the Sacred Bloody Flesh: _"Raw meat soaked with blood. A delicacy of the bloodfiends.Temporarily boosts physical attack power and arcane. When blood loss occurs nearby, further boosts attack power. The blood is said to have fallen from the Formless Mother's wound. Never will it dry, never will it rot."_ Which is a shame, since I agree with you and do believe there is overlap and good synergy with Blood/FM and Rot/SR.
He just stumbles out of the blood puddle and goes "WOOOO!! HONORED GUEST!! GUEST OF HONOR MY **MAN** HOW ARE YA DOIN?! WWWWWEELCOME TO TH- The birthplace of OUR DYNASTYYYYY WOOOHOOOO!!!"
15:43 morgott also has a pair of stubby wings like his brother! they're on his lower back, and unfortunately they weren't modelled (because theyre in a spot impossible to see in normal gameplay) so they're invisible, but the fabric of his cloak drapes over them in their shape :)
Mohg and Morgott must've lived above ground for a while. I 100% believe that the Fell Twins fight next to divine tower is them in their past. We get ashes of Omenkiller Rollo (the first omenkiller) from this fight and that drives me to believe that young Mohg and Morgott killed Rollo when he came after them, and were subsequently moved underground - to prevent more assaults on them, and to stop them from killing more people.
17:30 I think that the reason why the bloody finger is so pale is because it's our blood that has been "siphoned": from the finger into the finger nail. Then the blood-infused nail becomes a link between us and the Formless Mother. The nail, which was dead, comes "alive" with blood and pain. I'm just wondering whether this has anything to do with the fingernail spells that we find in the DLC. Great video as always.
I personally believe the Formless Mother and the Blood Star are the same being, viewed through different lenses, being attempting to understand the Formless Mother via Faith, or studying the Blood Star using Intelligence
That render is sick Eugenia you’re great! And dear Smough Town, as a Sabaku no Maiku follower let me tell you that you are a really great scholar of the lore
I’m glad you touched upon Ansbach’s final lines in comparison to Goldmask’s ideology the way you did; it’s something I’ve held true since witnessing the final events at the Divine Gate. It makes me believe that the golden order, under the Tarnished’s de facto rule, is capable of undoing the prejudices that weigh it down. We know it’s pliable-this was the subject of scholar Rogier’s long study. Removing the absolute influence of the will of gods, specifically Marika, allows us to be the ones who decide. I don’t think there’s anything to suggest we can’t, under new rule, repeal the stigmas against the misbegotten, omen, those who live in death, and such, after the credits roll. After this dlc, it’s made me believe that that’s the message behind Elden Ring-things can be fixed through extreme will, and a sort of reduction in absolutism. All this to say, I’m glad you touched on Ansbach in the way the game itself portrays him, as opposed to some other takes I’ve seen that reduce his character to some bumbling delusional failure. Great reappraisal of Mohg and his dynasty! Thank you smough. Idk what you’re making next, but what I’m most looking forward to next, is your reappraisal of Miquella, whenever that might be.
Thanks bud - i'm honestly a bit sad there wasn't an additional ending from the DLC. Albeit I imagine we can honor Ansbach's wishes in any of the Elden Lord and Ranni endings, by choosing to rule in a just manner. I agree one of the main themes of ER that I see is Self-determination/choice/breaking the cycle. (themes video is coming very soon) I think next will be a reappraisal of Miquella/the Vow and then I am going to do a themes video. Thanks for the support and discussion!
So, Michelangelo made a Moses sculpture. He depicted Moses having horns. Why? Because of a passage out of Exodus. When Moses comes down the mountain Sinaï, his face is "radiant". But, the original word used in this passage is "qaran" and that could also translate to: "to shoot out horns, rays" Recap: Moses met God face to face and grew horns because of it and didnt notice it. I mean, you can make the connection to Elden Ring yourself lmao.
Thank you for helping me understand something that had always confused be before. When we speak to Yura at the end of his questline, he says "I've sliced off the finger.". I never understood what he really meant by that. I had assumed that when we speak to Varre and he gives us the "Bloody Finger" item, that scene was meant to represent him tearing off one of our characters fingers. But you explained that he was injecting Mogh's blood into our finger, so even though it becomes an item, it's still attached to our hand. Therefore Yura saying that he's "sliced off the finger" means that he had joined the bloody fingers to get close to Eleonora, then literally severed his connection with them just before his death.
My interpretation is that the formless mother's goal is to create life (similar to odeon) hence they are a mother. Their goal isn't to spread blood, it's just the medium they use to create life.
1:11:46 I want to add on to this. It’s likely the reason Miquella missing his left arm in his god form is because of Ansbach when he attacked him. And in the intro cutscene where Mogh takes Miquella, he still has both his arms as well as the memory of a younger Miquella. Meaning that it would have to have AFTER Mogh stole Miquella from the Haligtree. If not, I literally have no idea why he has three arms.
Miquella actually had seven arms. He has two on the corpse he left in the cocoon, two that he abandoned at crosses (the dextral and sinistral), and then three more in the boss fight! But really, he doesn't have a body in the boss fight, so I think he could have grown as many spirit arms as he wanted.
@@krakoa942 Honestly the whole discarding his flesh thing is extremely confusing from the get go. It feels like From just forgotten that he should be a spirit or something.
26:23 Just a small note on the usage of the term omen. If you "kill" the Hornsent grandam before fighting the lion then she curses that "The curse of the omen shall strike thee all down.", "thee all" referring to Marika, her family and perhaps the player too. So the term seems to predate Marika's rule, although we can't say if Marika perhaps repurposed the term. (The JP dialogue might help to figure this out).
This thumbnail. I have been tracing parallels between MOGH and Lucifer in my head from the moment I learned his lore - I'm super excited to watch your video (sorry for the horrible English).
One thing that supports the theory that fly men were intentionally created is that fly mold’s item description says it can be used for pot innards; it is a known ingredient. In Belarut, near the height of where the fetid waters are being pumped from the reservoir below, you can find a room where fly men have been cut open and had their innards extracted. The fly-men are specifically described as their blood and flesh being usable ingredients. Seemingly, Belarut encouraged and utilized fly men, also helping create them by pumping this water and spreading the disease. The only thing unclear is if this act was consequential utility or if the hornsent were aware and respected the crucible aspects of the formless mother, forming a sort of contract with her to supply innards.
You made justice to mogh !!!! Great video Geoff, as always you don’t disappoint with the quality of your craft. If its not mean to ask, do you intend to make a video about the Moons ? Their nature and their very aspect is very mysterious, it would be awesome to see your take on the subject. Have a nice week and take care my friend, don’t you dare go hollow.
Hey Goldmask - thank you so much as always. Moon video is defo on the cards - I think I would genuinely like to do a reassessment of the cosmic side of the lore! Hope you have a great week too bud - May the good blood guide your way
The man files are a very strange case. On the one hand, there are the spirits you mentioned that use blood flies and seem to be somehow complicit in the man fly transformation. But the man flies themselves dont have any blood letting abilities of their own, and in fact seen to share more with the kindred of rot. They use poison and have the fly mold, fungus seems to also be another rot themed thing. There might be something deeper going on here.
Considering that the description said that people giving them proper burial rites dont get infected, it could mean that its some sort of curse for their crimes.
You interpreted the description of the Accursed Blood Pot as more metaphorical, asserting that it references the harassment Mohg received from other people. I would argue that Mohg, Morgott, and all Omen are more sensitive to and harassed by angry, vengeful spirits. The “curse” that Omens bear is not just social stigma, but a susceptibility to spirits born from their connection to the Crucible. I believe this was also a theory explored/mentioned in your Omen/Dung Eater lore video, and I think the DLC has provided more evidence to support it through the Hornsent. The brownish flames used by some Omen enemies are referred to as “wraiths” in the descriptions of the Omen Bairn and Regal Omen Bairn. Mythologically, wraiths are angry or vengeful spirits that haunt the living. I argue that these spirits haunt and harass the Omen because their “accursed blood” and connection to the Crucible make them more vulnerable to the spirits. It also seems that some Omen have the ability to manipulate these spirits to harm others as well, as shown by the breath attacks of Omen enemies and the second phase of Morgott’s boss fight. The Hornsent also had some affinity for manipulating spirits; Spritestones and Bondstones are one example of this power, as are the Watchful Spirit spell and the homing spirits summoned by Hornsent when you fight him. Further, both these watchful spirits and the vengeful spirits of the Omen Bairns are buffed by the Braided Cord Robe, suggesting a connection between them. I theorize that the watchful spirits summoned by Hornsent and the vengeful spirits that haunt the Omen are both spirits of Hornsent, and that living Omen and Hornsent can commune with/manipulate these spirits thanks to a blood-connection to the Crucible. The description of the Omensmirk Mask says that it was modeled off of a smirking being that haunts the nightmares of the Omen. Perhaps this being represents the Hornsent slain during Messmer’s crusade, or some curse laid upon Marika and her descendants after her “seduction and betrayal.”
Maybe the omen are also coming into contact with the same force that made the Lamenter. Perhaps when Mohg was besotted with his cursed blood he experienced rapturous grief.
I love how much Ansbach really illustrates Miquella to us. I also love the fly curse being and eldrich disease that transforms hornsent into flies, it’s almost like the fungus is turning them into zombies like a mycelium fungus but more exaggerated.
Something interesting to note, is the similarty of the blood fiends cave and the chapter of berserk where Slan materialize herself from blood of orcs and trolls. As a godhand member, She's also some kind of "formless mother". I think she even mention the creatures as their "children"
Maybe, maybe not. Unless I’m forgetting something there’s nothing concrete that confirms Mohg wasn’t planning on using Miquella. We know he was charmed but it’s unclear when and how all that happened. Was Mohg always under Miquella’s charm? Did Miquella charm Mohg after imbedding himself in the Haligtree? Was Mohg planning on using Miquella for his dynasty but Miquella pulled an UNO reverse card on Mohg? Who knows.
@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64 I'm positive miq charmed him from the beginning, there's no blood to sneak into the haligtree from, how would he have found and took miquella out of there undetected unless that was miqs design?
28:13 I think it might also be possible that they were spared because of their compassion. The formless mother seems to uplift thise who are somehow "cursed" or opressed. Perhaps those who helped the manflies, people who were "blessed" by the mother, where left alone due to their kindness. This is just a random idea I had though, your theory is probably more likely to be true.
This may be a stretch, but, by getting Ranni’s ending you’re fulfilling Ansbach’s wish, a lord for Men and not for Gods, because at the end We (Tarnished one and Ranni) leave the Lands Between in hands of their resident, with no Gods ruling them.
Agreed! I pointed this out in a conversation on another video. I think Ranni’s ending is closest to Ansbach’s ideal of bringing forth an age for the benefit of man and not the Gods.
Also, as an aside - I notice a running theme with how Outer Gods are discovered. They're discovered when people despair and need answers that the current world order can't provide them. Examples being Romina desperately finding a way to preserve her plants, infusing them with rot. Or the Bloodfiends finding the Formless Mother when they sought council from the now silent tutelary deity. My headcanon for Mohg is that, after rotting in the sewer with his self-hating brother, was shedding his own blood in self-hatred and looking for answers (we also know from his sword that Morgott bloodlets himself). The answer WAS his own blood - a blood which held power: the power of the Formless Mother. His blood is reimagined as something noble, but also something he intends to share. Perhaps the connection runs very deep. We could speculate that Mohg's noble blood, which can cause those receptive to it to grow horns, is a way of sharing in the noble and powerful Hornsent blood that was once hoarded in the Lands of the Tower. This is perhaps what the Bloodfiends and cultists of the Formless Mother in the shadow lands might have been surreptitiously starting with their spreading of fly sickness, but this is hard speculative territory.
Malenia when defeated summons Rot. Marika when discovering the fate of the other Shaman could have triggered a connection with the Greater Will. Hell every frenzy flame adherent. Fite Giant when webreak his leg. Ties heavily in To the Behelit from Berserk used to summon the Godhand and we know Miyazaki loves Berserk. Great comment!
Great video so far! Just have to say I really don't believe Miquella told mohg to kidnap him once he put himself in the tree, that really doesn't make much sense given Miquella's intentions for the tree and how Mohg kidnapping him is what killed it. The cocoon in the haligtree in the opening to the game was definitely being used to access the realm of shadow before, it's the same one in mohg's arena. Plus, mohg had his own reasons to kidnap miquella, since there was no other option for him if he wanted to become a lord - Marika was off the table, malenia was rotted, ranni was dead as far as anyone knew. Miquella doesn't have any long distance charming abilities that would be able to charm mohg from inside the tree either, if he had that things would have gone so much more smoothly for him in becoming God. He could have charmed the player before we entered the boss arena if that was the case! I don't think there should be any doubt that Miquella only charmed mohg after he was kidnapped, and then used mohg to continue his plans.
@@SmoughTown im glad! Im a few mins in now but, just had to get ahead of the "allegations beaten" comments lol. it's a pretty cool idea, imagining that miquella found himself kidnapped and had to charm his way out of it, managing to get through mohg and ansbach. Makes him seem a lot cooler
@@UnalloyedRascal I’ve had similar thoughts as well. It’s funny to say “Mohg beat the allegations” and say he was the victim all along but there’s nothing to confirm or deny that. Unless I'm forgetting something there's nothing concrete that confirms Mohg wasn't planning on using Miquella. We know he was charmed but it's unclear when and how all that happened. Was Mohg always under Miquella's charm? Did Miquella charm Mohg after imbedding himself in the Haligtree? Was Mohg planning on using Miquella for his dynasty but Miquella pulled an UNO reverse card on Mog? Who knows, the DLC certainly wasn’t clear in that.
There is one thing tho. We hear from Freija that Miquella saved her from swamp of aeonia. This means Miquella visited caelid after the fight with radahn and Malenia. And Guess whats directly under the swamp of aeonia? Mohgs dynasty. We also never hear why Miquella visited caelid during this time so this being the time Miquella might have charmed mohg only to then return to haligtree, cocoon up and wait for mohgs obsession to take hold on him. Thats atleast what i believe hapened.
Of the options we're given, I am at least a little upset there's no Formless Mother ending. Even in the blood-addled post-Miquella state we find it in, I am quite fond of what little we get to learn of the Mohgwyn Dynasty.
Ahhh maybe your best Elden Ring video so far Smough, definitely my favourite!! Your original Lord of Blood video was the first video of yours I saw and I've kept up with your channel ever since. You've grown so much as a creative and I really respect that :) Looking forward to more from you.
The Hornsent healers being agents of the Blood God is an interesting parallel with Mohg white masked surgeons. I wonder if they were converted in a similar way, an earnest desire to ease the suffering of their fellow man being warped by their constant exposure to bloodshed and pain.
the hornsent have to been worshipping the formless mother in some way, whether knowingly or unknowingly through jar ritual. the gate of divinity in the trailer just screams “formless bloody mass”, which also ticks boxes for the crucible in many descriptions. i wonder if the divine beast was just one of her vassals. i also somewhat wonder if the formless mother, the gloam eyed queen, the rot goddess are all just fragments of marika’s discarded selves when she made the golden order. the lands between and shadow are just the literal mythologized trauma of a mad baddie
glad you could give miquella at least a little grace which is refreshing to see after reading a lot of people saying he's straight up evil. after everything we learned in the dlc it seems almost every faction has just been awful to one another so it should be expected that we'd run into morally grey areas even with supposed pure hearted characters like miquella.
Miquella is honestly more interesting as a true eternal child than as just another schemer pretending to be nice. Young children by their nature are naive, selfish, and generally don't understand that other people have feelings. Miquella wasn't just physically stunted, he also never developed past a childlike mentality that simply doesn't account for anyone's personhood.
@@blackosprey2219 that's a good point too. the saying "throwing one's toys out of the pram" comes to mind when thinking of miquella divesting pieces of himself throughout the land of shadow.
I have to disagree with the idea that Mohg and Morgott walked the streets of leyndel based on the fact Morgott is referred to as "The veiled Monarch" if Morgott had walked the streets his women curse would've been known and the veil of secrecy would be unnecessary, I instead believe he and Mohg were kept as a secret known only to few in the upper echelons of society before being caged in the shunning grounds, also the mention of being tormented by spirits as a childhood memory of Mohg more likely points out to the fact all omen are tormented by spirits in their dreams and perhaps Mohgs royal blood simply gave the spirits a greater power to torment him Great video nonetheless just thought I'd mention my idea
A thought on Mohg, Miquella, and the bloodletting. What if the blood spilling wasn't as reckless before Miquella? But after abducting him, the charm could have drove Mohg to order more and more blood to be spilled to "awaken" Miquella. Miquella may have ended up making the Mohgywn Dynasty far more bloodthristy than it actually was susposed to be.
To be honest the Prospect town is just next to Belurat, so if a tribe of Demi humans did exist there, its likely that the Hornsent will look at them from a place of superiority and try to 'civilize' them by teaching them hornsent customs. We know that the Hornsent though they were divine. A cultural belief perfectly suited to religious colonization.
This makes me want to build a PvP character who invades in Albinauric cosplay... Also, how cool would it be if there was an alternate route where you could save Yura, and instead of Shabriri taking over his corpse, he joins you in taking down Mohg?
Im wondering why you didn’t mention the Lamenter at all. It connects the hornest/crucible to mohg and Margott. His item says “ This transformation tallies with the state of a denizen of paradise, but the people of the tower denied and hid it from the world. In their foolishness, they viewed true bliss with deep fear.” it’s saying how the hornsent were foolish for not recognizing that this is a being akin to someone from paradise. As well all the horns the lamented has show an influence with the crucible. We also see the lamenter having very similar abilities to Margott and mohg. We see it using black/gold fire like in the Morgott fight and we see it make copies of itself just like margott and mohg. My interpretation is margott and mohg are akin to a divine being of the crucible and the hornesnt. This also explains Mohgs wings as in the shadowlands we fight crucible knights with wings as well. This is why Marika is so cruel to them, they represent the divinity of the crucible and the hornsent who Marika wants to erase from existence.
I think you're right that the blood fiends aren't demihumans for all the reasons you gave, and also because prospect town appears to be their home town, and is more sophisticated than anything the demihumans have. I think the similarities to demihumans is evidence that they're devolving due to their transformation, so they've abandoned their village and now live in caves, have crude tools, etc.
This is a good point but de-evolution appears to occur in other contexts as well (eg the beasts of farum azula). There seems to be closer ties between the blood fiends and the demi humans but you may be right.
A question remains: Why did Miquella cocoon himself within the Haligtree in the first place? Did he genuinely intend to use the tree to achieve his order of unalloyed gold, or was this somehow a part of his plan to enter the Lands of Shadow and cross the Gate of Divinity? At what point did he become aware of that potential path? If it's true that Malenia knew of Miquella's plans, as implied by her whispered words to Radhan during their battle, then that would suggest Miquella's pre-existing intentions to enter the Lands of Shadow, and therefore his manipulation of Mohg, or at least anticipation of his actions, even at that time. Mohg was in need of a god for his dynasty, but I suspect that Miquella was selected at least in part due to his charm. Otherwise, perhaps Mohg himself could have been the God of Blood, and the tarnished his Lord Consort, as with other demigods in the game.
Excellent analysis, as always. The DLC was really confusing for me story-wise beyond the obvious plot lines. Your vids have added so much clarity. I’m back on the hype train!!! Thank you, Smough❤🙏🏿
What I love about from software is that they make the story of their games like a puzzle which is made up of pieces. They give us some of the pieces, but we have to fill in the rest ourselves. And sometimes multiple pieces fit in the same slot. And that's what I love, there are so many different versions of the lore and none of them are necessarily right or wrong
I thought the item description talking about Mogh being tormented as a child, I thought this was in reference to how the omen are cursed to be taunted in their dreams, pretty much like a reference to the nightmare apostles in berserk. This is why you pass by sleeping omen that are jerking around on the ground while they sleep.
I always thought that the blood fiends were transmuted ancestral followers. The charms mention of "looking upon their ancestors body" in ritual calls back to the ancestral followers continued care of the regal ancestor spirit . The connection can also be seen in their organized group dance headed by a member at the front keeping tempo shown in the hallowhorn grounds in the base game and the rivermouth cave
My crazy theory: In a world where death has been absent for millenniae, bloodshed is not an inherently evil act. When Varre preaches of the love of the Mogwyn Dynasty, he is being 100% genuine. A big, happy, loving family gleefully flaying eachother's flesh in reverence of their blood god. Kinda wholesome when you think about it.
Ppl acting like we owe Mough an apology or that the formless mother is somehow good is kind of crazy to me. Are we walking around the same corrupted blood swamp?
Yeah. He's still demon king of serial killers, he just is not also king of the pdf files. You could argue that Mogh had only planned to 'kidnap' Miquella because he had been charmed to do so, or else he might have went after someone else as his candidate for being the god. Or maybe he didn't even know he needed a god, since Miquella only discovered how godhood/ascension worked later, after he had cacooned himself and the Haligtree failed. Which was why he did an about face and needed Mogh to access the Land of Shadows in the first place. That is one problem with Smoughtown's argument about the 'kidnapping' not being initially consensual because Miquella was cacooned. He just didn't consider the inplications of the timeline. Whether or not the kidnapping was a real kidnapping or just Mogh doing what Miquella wanted, Miquella would have been cacooned either way because Miquella didn't know the Haligtree wouldn't make him a god until after he had cacooned himself to try and metamorphize himself into a god. So his argument of "Miquella wouldn't have been cacooned if Mogh had been mind controlled," is just a bad argument. Now, it is still entirely possible Mogh did want to kidnap Miquella, but I think the evidence points more towards their factions cooperating long before the supposed kidnapping. The way to Mogh's Blood Palace area that isn't a badge he awards knights that have proven their loyalty beyond doubt is the permanent, I repeat permanent, teleport gate that is set up in the snowfield next to the teleport to the Haligtree. And Miquella being in the Land of Shadows is a relatively recent development. I'm talking about maybe a year, probably less and more around a month, was the impression I have gotten, with the player tarnished and the band "actively"chasing after his footsteps in a sequence just a little bit behind Miquella. Not to mention the entire thing with Radahn's soul basically disproving the idea that what happened between Mogh and Miquella being a kidnapping by itself. The only reason Melania left from Miquella's side/the Haligtree is that she was trying to kill Radahn so Miquella could get his soul to stuff into Mogh's body. Miquella only learns that he needs to do that after he enters the Land of Shadows and discovers that secret rite in the library of Messmer's castle. That means that Mogh had to have 'kidnapped' Miquella before Miquella learned he needed Radahn dead for said rite, which means Malenia would have been right next to Miquella while Mogh 'kidnapped' Miquella. I doubt Mogh would have beat Melania lore-wise, and Malenia isn't transformed into a rot goddess when we reach her which means she never got desperate enough to need to do her lotus, which means Mogh more likely than not didn't beat her in a fight. So you could make the argument that Mogh actually tried to kidnap Miquella, but I think there is much more evidence pointing in the other direction of the idea of this being a kidnapping is just outright wrong, and a purposeful misdirection the game tries to plant for the later reveal of the entire thing with Mogh taking Miquella being a plan from the beginning.
Hmm, they "saw in it's _shadow_ a twisted deity", and Mohg was needed in some way to access the Shadow Lands, I wonder if there's some connection there... We tend to think of the formless mother as a pool of blood or something but what if she's the _shadows_ , or perhaps "the dark" as the thorn sorcerers also seemed to commune with her after blinding themselves with their thorns 🤔
So wanted to make a second comment to keep ideas organized and while its really attractive to defend our boi Mohg I do believe it’s correct to assume he tried to kidnap Miquella. HOWEVER I feel like the revelation that he planned to use his corpse as Radahn’s vessel was too coincidental for him to not have planned, personally I believe Miquella was cocooning himself before Malenia’s fight with Radahn, afterall if he was going to go to the gate of Divinity The cocoon seems redundant now. It feels like he changed his mind (as we see evidence of him abandoning his plan with Godwynn as well) he may have sent Malenia to fight Radahn, and it feels like she really wanted him dead. The fight doesn’t seem honorable since she brought an entire army with her. More over the fight happens right in front of Sellia. I feel like Malenia may have threatened the town to get Radahn to fight her. But regardless while Mohg may have intended to kidnap Miquella it wouldn’t have been easy to do with how guarded the Haligtree is, ive seen some people assume he manifested himself there through a blood pool but if thats the case he wouldn’t have needed a portal in the snowfield. I believe Miquella invited the Omen to the tree for the purpose of attracting Mohg. He could literally just walk right in. The reason I think Miquella planned this is because if he was going to the Shadow Realm and he Gates of Divinity, he needed a vessel for Radahn, one he had control over. More over like the Hornsent needed Sculpted Keepers to house the Divine Lion’s spirit, he needed a proper vessel to properly empower Radahn as well. Possibly with Crucible powers, alongside being Godfrey’s Blood. And considering the options Miquella has, it comes down to Godrick, Rykard, Morgott, and Mohg. Godrick is the weakest option by far, Rykard is literally obsessed with eating the world. While Morgott is definitely a more suitable candidate I feel like given his description of Miquella he wouldn’t be easy to charm just like Radahn initially would’ve been. So Mohg is the best option, not only an Omen with an outer God’s blessing, but emotionally vulnerable. Very passionate. Ironically his cult represents true unconditional love and embracement of all things while Miquella forces obsession funnily enough. He’s the perfect candidate for a vessel for Radahn’s soul and he’s a ticket to the realm of shadow. To me it would be way to convenient for Miquella to just so happen to be kidnapped by Mohg and then Mohg turns out to be the perfect vessel for Radahn. While Mohg may have intended to kill Miquella I believe Miquella planned on that to happen. Another thing I haven’t seen people talk about is Torrent’s relationship to Miquella, he bears some likeness to the Crucible touched beasts in the specimen storehouse as well as the ancestor spirits underground, and given Marika is implied to be a Spirit Tuner it’s likely Miquella probably has the same potential too. So I believe personally Miquella sent Torrent out to find a Tarnished worthy enough to become Elden Lord, and doing what the Tarnished are destined to do, we would naturally killed the Demigods like Radahn and Mohg. Making his plan possible. Another thing I noticed is the existence of Freyja, she was healed from Scarlet Rot from the Swamp of Aeonia, a place that should not exist until Malenia’s fight with Radahn, meaning Miquella was mobile after that event. I feel like his kidnapping could’ve happened after Malenia returned to the Haligtree. Seeing as he couldn’t risk his sister possibly dying again, literally ruining his reason to become a god he’d need someone else to do Radahn in. Which is why I believe his Followers didn’t just Follow him to the Land of Shadow I believe he did in fact call them as Leda says she was. I believe they would’ve been here to initially kill Mohg, and then Messmer, since the Tower of Shadow would need to be unveiled for Miquella as a god to be able to leave. While this is just a theory i think this shows how good a planner Miquella is, he may have manipulated us without even meeting us. The same way Marika uses Melina to be a sacrifice to burn the Erdtree, and Hewg to help us make a weapon to slay a god, bringing about change for the Elden Ring, Miquella probably used us from the very beginning of the game and counted on our arrival to set his plan in motion, not us specifically but any Tarnished strong enough to make the journey. While Miquella seems to be emotionally childish, making and abandoning plans they definitely are well thought out, but they also seem to take alot of risks. He’s the reason Malenia blooms in Caelid, due to the possibility of a charm he may have placed on her by her own wish. He was content to let the Haligtree rot after waiting in it for so long, as well as just giving up on Godwynn. And then there’s us. If he did use us, he literally didn’t account for the possibility that if we defeated Radahn we could do it again, even with his combined strength. This ultimately is just a theory, ive tried to keep things organized but i have ultimately become scatterbrained in some areas trying to put this to paper. But a big tldr: Miquella needed a vessel for Radahn, and to get cursed to get to the Land of Shadow. Mohg is enticed by Miquella to kidnap him. Being the blood of the Formless Mother and Godfrey he’ll empower Radahn and be subservient to him He also needs someone to kill Radahn and Mohg so while he has Followers to kill Mohg, he sends Torrent to find a Tarnished worthy of becoming Elden Lord to do just that. Miquella then uses his Followers and us to kill Messmer to unveil the Tower of Shadow so he can leave the Gates with Radahn as a God.
Adding onto what you said, if Miquella didn’t plan around Mohg kidnapping him, them what would be his reason for sending Melania to kill Radahn? One could argue, since we don’t know the order of events, that Miquella was kidnapped first, travelled to the land of shadow, learned of how to become a god and then sent Melania to kill Radahn. But then are we supposed to believe that while Miquella was in his cocoon , at his most vulnerable, that Melania and the rest of the haligtree army just let Mogh walk in and take him? Mogh’s not very sneaky. He’s a big guy with a ✨presence✨ The only way Mohg could comfortably walk in and take Miquella is when Melania and the army is gone, leaving no one to stop Mogh even if they spot him (and there is one ghost that does catch him in the act but can’t do anything to stop him). So while I still can’t settle on a reason for why Miquella wouldn’t just go with Mohg, it to makes more sense for Miquella to plan around his kidnapping than be oblivious to it. Maybe he knew Melania and others wouldn’t like his method of reaching the shadow realm? After all, he’s burning himself with bloodflame to get rid of his grace, then going further by cutting off parts of himself. It sounds like an extremely painful process. Similar to how Ranni killed her body to free herself. I’m sure if Blaidd knew of that plan he would NOT have let her go through with it (both because he cares and also the two fingers wouldn’t allow it). I feel like Melania would be the same so Miquella would have to make a show of using some other method (the coccon) to throw her off for at least long enough that things would already be underway when she got back (helps that she went into a coma after the fight. I always wondered if St. trina had a hand in that.) That last bit is pure speculation but its the best thing i can come up with that isn’t too much of a stretch to believe
Starting a fresh playthrough and listening to this is EXACTLY what i needed tonight. Cannot express how annoyed today ended especially after work..lets go.
It’s such bad writing because it actively ignores anything the player does. Especially when you can immediately do Ranni’s, or Frenzy Flame ending making his point moot. You literally can do stuff on par or even worse than Miquella’s world which shows how poorly thought this DLC’s story is.
@@simonealcazar816 That's Ansbach's last wish, it doesn't bind you to any course of action. Besides, Ranni's ending is probably the best for all the living beings in the Lands Between.
@@simonealcazar816Not following your logic here. Its Ansbach’s dying wish. It doesnt bind the player character in any particular way, and in any event the ending that best realizes this ideal is open to interpretation and debate.
I just gotta say - Mohg is a badass, one of the roughest boss fights in the whole game with a crazy hard level before reaching him, I wonder what would happen if the tarnished let him build his dinasty of blood
If you watch the whole video before commenting, you'd have a solid idea since Smough goes over this exact topic. If anything a Miquella ending would be much better to have in game
From probably didn’t want or forgot the Shackle to work on the Final DLC boss. There’s no good reason why it shouldn’t work and would’ve rewarded people pay attention to the story but this DLC constantly fails at rewarding you for that in general so I’m not surprised.
ya thats how i see it as well, which kinda tracks with the item usage, as you never touch their body you just slam it into the floor and then get shackled down, especially with all the importance of spirits. the shackles are definitely soul binding alternatively, the body tho it was once mohgs is now not, still not fully radahn, but no longer mohg
25:00 I'm going with demi-humans on this one. Given the worship of the crucible it's very likely that they could have created the demi-humans. Besides, no horns, which is pretty well the only endemic feature of the hornsent. Mohg's tribe has horns because it's his blood they are working with, the blood fiends would have had horns were it in their blood to have them. Had they been descendant from the hornsent, they'd have horns.
Thank you so much for watching my take on Mohg and the Formless Mother, let me know your thoughts in the comments below!
Again shout out to Eugenia Lysa for doing the Render Commissions.
Is there a source of her artwork one might be able to use as a desktop wallpaper? asking for a friend >.>
The marriage of bloodborne and elden ring in her commissions esthetic is 👨🍳's 💋
I can't wait to watch it!
Btw I wanted to let you know I sent you something to your email some time ago, I sincerely hope you accept the gift.
Love your work bro. Every lore video of yours is so good
@@gnm4 Thanks so much my friend!
In this new world of Ai generated content being everywhere on the internet, it's nice to see you both comission an actual artist and shouting them out as well.
It's one of the best things about doing youtube - getting to work with incredibly talented artists
@@SmoughTown I don't know why you'd need one considering your work, but if you ever EVER need a voice actor in Spanish, English or German, I'd love to work with you!! Love your content Geoff
Agree 💯. It makes you appreciate real content knowing how much effort goes into it
Nothing wrong if he used ai tastefully
Ansbach's death quote was my motivation against Miquella. Everytime I eard him say that I was inspired to take the challenge again. The fact that someone so loyal to a demigod says those words with his dying breath is really powerfull and recontextualised Elden ring's story to me
Genuinely an incredible (almost) final quote of the Game
@@SmoughTown I had no idea such a line was there. Really excited to play the DLC one day just for that. HOWEVER...as a Goldmask simp I offer an alternative interpretation of his mending rune.
I think his argument was less about authoritarianism and more about laws of nature being independent from meddlers. That reality shouldn't bend to what a fickle soul wishes but that we bend to whatever is found to be perfectly sound natural law. Similar to Melina's wish for indiscriminate death. The description also mentions it was "an attempt at perfecting" (so fitting for his character) suggesting that he himself was careful to keep his hands off 'transcendental ideology' meaning.
But I do admit Smough brings up good points with the fundamentalists. at @39:07 the description said "many believe" which leaves me curious whether albinaurics are ACTUALLY impure or LITERALLY lacking in the game's writing as opposed to fundamentalist applications. It could be that perfect order does call out objective impurity in omens or albinaurics. Sad? yes. But even if it's true, taking that and (imprisoning, enslaving, ostracizing etc) isn't necessarily a golden order extension but that of man. This is also evidenced in how some Tarnished are able to see and be guided by grace. Who or what system facilitates that? The impartiality would also call out Ansbach's final line. Making it more precise perhaps saying "both gods and man should have lords" But again this is also because I myself took a liking to goldmask's logic.😆 Perhaps the Golden Order is rotten from the core.
Mohg having someone as admirable as Ansbach following him makes you wonder what kind of man he was before getting brainwashed.
@superlosia1234 Who knows it's much more useful to look at the marginalized to see their policies and on that hand Mogh is rather mixed.
@@JOLMStruly Hard to say about the Golden Order since Marika and everyone else in the Golden Order were being led by false and spoon-fed information and even the bearers of that false information were given False, spoon-fed information by their own mother.
One thing that's can often be viewed from stories like this is the contradiction that men want, they want free will but at the same time they want something certain to guide them, the Greater Will gave them existence, souls and will with all the good and the bad, but while that was unambiguously a good thing, it did leave them open to seduction by forces that offered them the guidance that the Greater Will never gave.
My theory on what the FM might actually look like is just an everflowing ocean of blood in a far-away void or pocket dimension. Liquids take the form of whatever container they’re stored in. Meaning in the case of the Formless Mother, it has no container to hold it. Allowing it to flow freely in whatever dimension or space it currently exists in. And although it’s stated to have a body that can be pierced, it’s not uncommon for a large amount of liquid to be referred to as a “body.” Usually this is the case for water, but anything with a large enough amount of matter can be referred to as a “body” and not just liquids. This is just a personal take though.
The formless mother is all around us. She is the first; the mother of all.
It’s really hard to say. Like Odeon the formless was assumed to effectively not have existed due to the definition of the word formless. An ocean, or glass of water has form. Maybe you could argue they are shapeless.
But then, how much are we meant to take formless literally, instead of figuratively/poetically.
Also, I suspect, that Odeon is the formless mother eons in the future, perhaps when blood runs dry or rots or has spilt out.
Remember, like rom, the formless mother was once a physical being.
I think she's like a mother of vinegar. The blood even looks like red wine vinegar.
@@psychoticbreaks167justletm4 Imagine how strong Mohg would’ve been if he sprayed Vinegar on us instead of Blood. No one would be able to access the DLC.
@@Yharim_The_Impaler Maybe that's why it's so devastating without the right considerations. It's like he's drying out your health pool.
Might also be why those red guys always be so salty towards the tarnished. And then you have the sad gray guys, probably depressed about being unseasoned and therefore mid at best.
Ansbach's scythe is made of obsidian. An obsidian blade gets chipped, but it never dulls, it's always ready to spill blood.
Dude the Mohg art is 🔥
It's a shame we don't have a blood ending.
100% I wish I could Mend the elden ring with something left behind after beating mohg and Varre, then we could see the erdtree burn red and spewing blood everywhere
We barerly have any other endings lol
Age if Despair is probably close enough. You could also RP Age of Pure Order with a blood character for another solid RP approach.
SOTE is kinda ehh too, cause imagine if the age of compassion ending was legit and the only way to get it is being charmed by Miquella.
I'd do it. For Ansbach.
Perhaps the reason she can commune with the omen directly is that the omen, are themselves, a wound.
OHHH - I love that
To expand on this a bit as I had more time with this idea, maybe it’s not so much that they are a wound, but, due to the very nature of their existence, are wounded. Perhaps her ability to commune with Mohg in this way is alluding to the deep pain and trauma he has suffered emotionally. The wounds caused in this way are sometimes vastly more devastating than physical wounds. This would make sense for the Omen and the Albinaurics being associated with her as well and could also be why her followers refer to her as a “mother” of some kind. Whether or not she’s a kindly, loving mother would matter little to those who have been abandoned/tortured/genocided. It also leaves the question of whether she is drawn to them for anything other than to perpetuate the pain and trauma. A 1000 year voyage in blood doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.
Edit 1: Well should have watched further to add in the blood fiends but this seems to further solidify this idea. Ill finish the video now 😂
@@ryananderson586 So you're saying Marika communed with the Formless Mother - or is the Formless Mother.
@@5chneemensch138 definitely not the formless mother. Whether Marika was aware of or contacted by/communed with/tempted by any other outer gods seems likely, but I would say all information we have points to her being allied solely with the Greater Will, and with her going to war with the Fire Giants and removal of their stomach-eye, seems there was no room for other gods in Marika’s Golden Order.
What do you mean?
When you said Mohg was sponsored by an outer god I immediately pictured him hosting a RUclips channel giving a shout out to the Formless Mother for sponsoring his blood channeling
"Welcome, honored guests. Today, the Moghwyn channel is sponsored by the Formless Mother!"
But first, a word from our sponsor
“If you guys are anything like me, you crave wounds. That’s why I’m excited to partner with the formless mother for todays video”
I think the nature of the dynasty can most be shown by Ansbach and Varre. Ansbach was discussed in the video but I think Varre bears mention as his last words show that the people of the dynasty truly do desire a world ruled by Mohg: in his last moments, Varre begs Mohg for power and, after receiving no answer, accepts death and begs Mohg to bring forth the dynasty of blood. Clearly, though cruel and sadistic, Varre believes in Mohg's ideal and wants to see the dynasty come to rise.
Another interesting thing and what I think Ansbach means when he blames the charm, Mohg greets us as an "honoured guest" before the fight and his player kill quote is "Miquella is mine and mine alone, for all eternity": Mohg isnt fighting us because he wants to protect his rune or to advance the dynasty, he thinks we are after Miquella and, being charmed, tries to fight ua off. His death quote reveals that, despite the enchantment, Mohg remains true to his ideal: "I can see it, clear as day, the coming of our dynasty", the use pf "our" likely meaning Miquella is counted as part of the dynasty
I disagree on the "our" part. I don't think he means Mikela, not only him at least. He greets us as honored guest, he has multiple followers regarded as novels, he bestows upon us the tittle of "pureblood knight", he is high mighty and fancy, but he shares such aspects with his followers, he never seems to undermine them at all and he seems to be a lord for men. So when he says "our dynasty" i believe he speaks for all of Moghwyn, not just himself and gis consort
The reason that the Formless Mother "craves wounds" is that she craves LESIONS, because Cutaneous horns grow from lesions in the skin when concentrations of keratin compound within a wound, or lesion. The Crucible is literally just keratin, or that which composes hair, horns, fur, wool, scales, feathers, talons, claws, fingernails, and lamprey teeth. This Crucible is opposed to the Chitin Crucible, which composes mushrooms, fungi, insects, crabs, lobsters, scorpions, and kindred of rot. This is also why Man-Flies have lost their keratin horns and have, instead, chitinous carapaces and wings.
Finally someone else gets it!!!
Bugs vs beasts? Hmm that is interesting
@@madmorgo6233 it is also Tree vs Fungi since tree seeds are powered by keratin when they grow and Fungi are made of Chitin. Sunflower seeds have a lot of keratin which is likely why Miquella's discarded rune creates a Sunflower avatar. It also explains why the Potentates use Caterpillar masks to dull their emotions and focus on their duties: because caterpillars are made of Chitin.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 ohh!! That is excellent..! Thank you for your comment and reply 🌞 I've feel like I've learned more from this game than I did in highschool 🤯😅😹
Keratin and Chitin, a curious framing of the classic dichotomy, like the Twinbirds, as above / so below 🤔
@@madmorgo6233 which is likely why the "antlers" in the game are not true antlers (made of calcium), but are said to be "antler-like horns", or keratin. This is likely also why Miquella was obsessed with insectoid transformations. He was attempting to divest himself of Grace and used Chitin first; hence why he has insect cocoons in the Haligtree, why he has insect wings in the official art when Mohg is taking him to his Palace, and why the Cleanrot Knights have insect wings.
It is also interesting that the Fingercreepers have warts, warts being concentrations of keratin due to hpv. Metyr's eye is even referred to as "wart-like".
I have a personal theory that Metyr gave hands not only to beasts, but the Kindred of Rot. This would explain why they have hands.
It's interesting that the Formless Mother was found in shadow of a tutelary diety, and underground by Mogh. The bloodfiends also seem to gather their blood in dark caves, similar to Mogh's approach. The Erdtree Seal and Cipher Pata are described as formless, but seem to actually be formed from light. Could the Formless Mother be formed from shadow? It seems in keeping with her title as Mother of Truth, someone who seeks to draw out what's hidden (like the blood from your veins).
And the FF draws in blind people. Is the FF the opposite of the FM? Questions, questions...
My headcanon is that Mohg was at an all time, self-hating low and was spilling his own blood in the sewers.
That's when, within his blood, he found something special in it. He found the Formless Mother, in the same desperation that the Bloodfiends had. Outer gods are always found when people despair and look for answers outside the current world order.
Shadows and caves are the most commom metaphors for the maternal womb, after all.
Formless has a couple different meanings in English. It can mean having no definite shape, lacking order or arrangement, or lacking a physical existence. I wonder how this might have interacted with the translation from Japanese.
@@5chneemensch138 the Frenzied Flame is the purest form of Chaos. It is the enemy of literally everyone else since the rest are all Orders of some kind.
"His eminence was felled in an honourable duel"
He has no idea about the stuff my Mimic Tear did to Mohg
hahah
" So join me this week"
I love it
hahaha - unsure why I say that
"AS FAMILEEEE!"
@@TheMuslimMan1337TOGETHAAAAA!
@@SmoughTown actually when you say that in the way your voice sounds you remind me of the RUclips channel bedtime stories. And that is a compliment because they do fantastic work and so do you.
@@SmoughTown I just want to say thank you. You've not only made Elden Ring that much more enjoyable but way easier to understand. On top of that when I'm having bad days your videos take my mind off a lot of bs so for that I just want to say thank you and keep up the great work 💯💯💯
one thing I've always liked about you is you always call out people that help you and people that you've had do other stuff it's very commendable and very noteworthy
Thanks my friend
37:52 dont apologize for that!
I love when you bring up every detail no matter how often. I tend to forget lore details now and then. And it makes a great experience to recall those details again and again.
I'm not the only one, I'm sure.
Thanks my friend - I know my style isn't for everyone, but glad to hear you like it!
Agreed
The Man-flies also have an element of Rot. Rot is described as the cycle of death and rebirth put into practice and that is exactly what happens to the Man-flies. Servants of Rot are all immune to the effects of rot too which could explain how those who cared for the Man-flies were unaffected by the disease.
In any case, I think the idea that "all things can be conjoined" is demonstrated here. A link between the Formless Mother and the God of Rot which we know at the end of the day can be "conjoined" but are ordered separately within Marika's Era.
I buy this more than the mother of truth.
Yeah, it definitely also backs up the trend of everything pre-Marika being closer to nature itself, different aspects of a singular thing, a crucible. The DLC does reveal some striking information regarding Blood and Rot together.
Edit: To add onto this, the Verdigris material seems to be associated with an Outer God. And given its primary location in Rauh (rot infested lands), and Moore being a rot-friendly merchant, this could also link this metal material to Rot as a different aspect of it, further adding onto the whole “crucible” aspects of the Elementary Outer Gods, pre-Marika. (P.S. Of course, it’s entirely true that the verdigris material Outer God is a different outer god entirely. But given the information, id like to assume it’s more related to a different aspect of ROT)
@@exquisitedoomlapointe185the tenders casting swarm of flies is suspicious though
I personally agree that Rot and Blood can be conjoined. Though Lore doesn't seem to reflect that, what with the Sacred Bloody Flesh:
_"Raw meat soaked with blood. A delicacy of the bloodfiends.Temporarily boosts physical attack power and arcane. When blood loss occurs nearby, further boosts attack power. The blood is said to have fallen from the Formless Mother's wound. Never will it dry, never will it rot."_
Which is a shame, since I agree with you and do believe there is overlap and good synergy with Blood/FM and Rot/SR.
Pretty sure Mohg snorted a line of blood right before he appears to fight us.
hahaha - canon
To be fair he probably does most of the time not just before fighting us
a blood line one could say
@@oye6124 ayy
He just stumbles out of the blood puddle and goes "WOOOO!! HONORED GUEST!! GUEST OF HONOR MY **MAN** HOW ARE YA DOIN?! WWWWWEELCOME TO TH- The birthplace of OUR DYNASTYYYYY WOOOHOOOO!!!"
15:43 morgott also has a pair of stubby wings like his brother! they're on his lower back, and unfortunately they weren't modelled (because theyre in a spot impossible to see in normal gameplay) so they're invisible, but the fabric of his cloak drapes over them in their shape :)
Hell yeah. Mohg and everything surrounding him and the Formless Mother are some of my favorite aspects of Elden Ring’s narrative and lore
Mohg and Morgott must've lived above ground for a while. I 100% believe that the Fell Twins fight next to divine tower is them in their past. We get ashes of Omenkiller Rollo (the first omenkiller) from this fight and that drives me to believe that young Mohg and Morgott killed Rollo when he came after them, and were subsequently moved underground - to prevent more assaults on them, and to stop them from killing more people.
17:30 I think that the reason why the bloody finger is so pale is because it's our blood that has been "siphoned": from the finger into the finger nail. Then the blood-infused nail becomes a link between us and the Formless Mother. The nail, which was dead, comes "alive" with blood and pain. I'm just wondering whether this has anything to do with the fingernail spells that we find in the DLC. Great video as always.
I personally believe the Formless Mother and the Blood Star are the same being, viewed through different lenses, being attempting to understand the Formless Mother via Faith, or studying the Blood Star using Intelligence
That render is sick Eugenia you’re great! And dear Smough Town, as a Sabaku no Maiku follower let me tell you that you are a really great scholar of the lore
Thanks so much my friend - Sabaku and his community are top tier
I’m glad you touched upon Ansbach’s final lines in comparison to Goldmask’s ideology the way you did; it’s something I’ve held true since witnessing the final events at the Divine Gate.
It makes me believe that the golden order, under the Tarnished’s de facto rule, is capable of undoing the prejudices that weigh it down. We know it’s pliable-this was the subject of scholar Rogier’s long study. Removing the absolute influence of the will of gods, specifically Marika, allows us to be the ones who decide. I don’t think there’s anything to suggest we can’t, under new rule, repeal the stigmas against the misbegotten, omen, those who live in death, and such, after the credits roll. After this dlc, it’s made me believe that that’s the message behind Elden Ring-things can be fixed through extreme will, and a sort of reduction in absolutism. All this to say, I’m glad you touched on Ansbach in the way the game itself portrays him, as opposed to some other takes I’ve seen that reduce his character to some bumbling delusional failure.
Great reappraisal of Mohg and his dynasty! Thank you smough.
Idk what you’re making next, but what I’m most looking forward to next, is your reappraisal of Miquella, whenever that might be.
Thanks bud - i'm honestly a bit sad there wasn't an additional ending from the DLC. Albeit I imagine we can honor Ansbach's wishes in any of the Elden Lord and Ranni endings, by choosing to rule in a just manner.
I agree one of the main themes of ER that I see is Self-determination/choice/breaking the cycle. (themes video is coming very soon)
I think next will be a reappraisal of Miquella/the Vow and then I am going to do a themes video.
Thanks for the support and discussion!
So, Michelangelo made a Moses sculpture. He depicted Moses having horns. Why? Because of a passage out of Exodus. When Moses comes down the mountain Sinaï, his face is "radiant". But, the original word used in this passage is "qaran" and that could also translate to: "to shoot out horns, rays"
Recap: Moses met God face to face and grew horns because of it and didnt notice it. I mean, you can make the connection to Elden Ring yourself lmao.
He also made the statue crazy buff. Moses di Michaelangelo lifts.
Thank you for helping me understand something that had always confused be before. When we speak to Yura at the end of his questline, he says "I've sliced off the finger.". I never understood what he really meant by that. I had assumed that when we speak to Varre and he gives us the "Bloody Finger" item, that scene was meant to represent him tearing off one of our characters fingers. But you explained that he was injecting Mogh's blood into our finger, so even though it becomes an item, it's still attached to our hand. Therefore Yura saying that he's "sliced off the finger" means that he had joined the bloody fingers to get close to Eleonora, then literally severed his connection with them just before his death.
My interpretation is that the formless mother's goal is to create life (similar to odeon) hence they are a mother. Their goal isn't to spread blood, it's just the medium they use to create life.
thank you for supporting artists
I am super lucky I get to work with such incredible artists!
So excited! I just had surgery and your vids have been the sole thing keeping me company during recovery I'm so excited to have a new one to listen to
Glad to hear your surgery is done! Hope my content keeps you company while you heal
You working with a real artist for this video is so badass man
1:11:46 I want to add on to this. It’s likely the reason Miquella missing his left arm in his god form is because of Ansbach when he attacked him. And in the intro cutscene where Mogh takes Miquella, he still has both his arms as well as the memory of a younger Miquella. Meaning that it would have to have AFTER Mogh stole Miquella from the Haligtree. If not, I literally have no idea why he has three arms.
Miquella actually had seven arms. He has two on the corpse he left in the cocoon, two that he abandoned at crosses (the dextral and sinistral), and then three more in the boss fight! But really, he doesn't have a body in the boss fight, so I think he could have grown as many spirit arms as he wanted.
@@krakoa942 Honestly the whole discarding his flesh thing is extremely confusing from the get go. It feels like From just forgotten that he should be a spirit or something.
26:23 Just a small note on the usage of the term omen. If you "kill" the Hornsent grandam before fighting the lion then she curses that "The curse of the omen shall strike thee all down.", "thee all" referring to Marika, her family and perhaps the player too. So the term seems to predate Marika's rule, although we can't say if Marika perhaps repurposed the term. (The JP dialogue might help to figure this out).
This thumbnail. I have been tracing parallels between MOGH and Lucifer in my head from the moment I learned his lore - I'm super excited to watch your video (sorry for the horrible English).
One thing that supports the theory that fly men were intentionally created is that fly mold’s item description says it can be used for pot innards; it is a known ingredient.
In Belarut, near the height of where the fetid waters are being pumped from the reservoir below, you can find a room where fly men have been cut open and had their innards extracted. The fly-men are specifically described as their blood and flesh being usable ingredients. Seemingly, Belarut encouraged and utilized fly men, also helping create them by pumping this water and spreading the disease. The only thing unclear is if this act was consequential utility or if the hornsent were aware and respected the crucible aspects of the formless mother, forming a sort of contract with her to supply innards.
You made justice to mogh !!!! Great video Geoff, as always you don’t disappoint with the quality of your craft.
If its not mean to ask, do you intend to make a video about the Moons ? Their nature and their very aspect is very mysterious, it would be awesome to see your take on the subject.
Have a nice week and take care my friend, don’t you dare go hollow.
Hey Goldmask - thank you so much as always. Moon video is defo on the cards - I think I would genuinely like to do a reassessment of the cosmic side of the lore!
Hope you have a great week too bud - May the good blood guide your way
The man files are a very strange case. On the one hand, there are the spirits you mentioned that use blood flies and seem to be somehow complicit in the man fly transformation. But the man flies themselves dont have any blood letting abilities of their own, and in fact seen to share more with the kindred of rot. They use poison and have the fly mold, fungus seems to also be another rot themed thing.
There might be something deeper going on here.
Considering that the description said that people giving them proper burial rites dont get infected, it could mean that its some sort of curse for their crimes.
You interpreted the description of the Accursed Blood Pot as more metaphorical, asserting that it references the harassment Mohg received from other people. I would argue that Mohg, Morgott, and all Omen are more sensitive to and harassed by angry, vengeful spirits. The “curse” that Omens bear is not just social stigma, but a susceptibility to spirits born from their connection to the Crucible. I believe this was also a theory explored/mentioned in your Omen/Dung Eater lore video, and I think the DLC has provided more evidence to support it through the Hornsent.
The brownish flames used by some Omen enemies are referred to as “wraiths” in the descriptions of the Omen Bairn and Regal Omen Bairn. Mythologically, wraiths are angry or vengeful spirits that haunt the living. I argue that these spirits haunt and harass the Omen because their “accursed blood” and connection to the Crucible make them more vulnerable to the spirits. It also seems that some Omen have the ability to manipulate these spirits to harm others as well, as shown by the breath attacks of Omen enemies and the second phase of Morgott’s boss fight. The Hornsent also had some affinity for manipulating spirits; Spritestones and Bondstones are one example of this power, as are the Watchful Spirit spell and the homing spirits summoned by Hornsent when you fight him. Further, both these watchful spirits and the vengeful spirits of the Omen Bairns are buffed by the Braided Cord Robe, suggesting a connection between them.
I theorize that the watchful spirits summoned by Hornsent and the vengeful spirits that haunt the Omen are both spirits of Hornsent, and that living Omen and Hornsent can commune with/manipulate these spirits thanks to a blood-connection to the Crucible. The description of the Omensmirk Mask says that it was modeled off of a smirking being that haunts the nightmares of the Omen. Perhaps this being represents the Hornsent slain during Messmer’s crusade, or some curse laid upon Marika and her descendants after her “seduction and betrayal.”
A smirking being... could that be st trinas smile?
Maybe the omen are also coming into contact with the same force that made the Lamenter. Perhaps when Mohg was besotted with his cursed blood he experienced rapturous grief.
Holy shit, these renders are so good? Eugenia is so incredibly skilled like damn
She's insanely talented!
Eugenia's rendering is fantastic, had me thinking I'd somehow missed an area in the game
I love how much Ansbach really illustrates Miquella to us. I also love the fly curse being and eldrich disease that transforms hornsent into flies, it’s almost like the fungus is turning them into zombies like a mycelium fungus but more exaggerated.
Maybe the fly dudes in dark souls 3 are hornsent ?
Yo these renders you had done sre SICK! props to the artist and you for commissioning them!
Something interesting to note, is the similarty of the blood fiends cave and the chapter of berserk where Slan materialize herself from blood of orcs and trolls. As a godhand member, She's also some kind of "formless mother". I think she even mention the creatures as their "children"
We owe Mohg an apology
Maybe, maybe not. Unless I’m forgetting something there’s nothing concrete that confirms Mohg wasn’t planning on using Miquella. We know he was charmed but it’s unclear when and how all that happened. Was Mohg always under Miquella’s charm? Did Miquella charm Mohg after imbedding himself in the Haligtree? Was Mohg planning on using Miquella for his dynasty but Miquella pulled an UNO reverse card on Mohg? Who knows.
@@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64 nah charges dropped, was guilty until proved innocent
Not a mohglester, still an arseling
An apology for what? He's still a psychotic villain lol.
@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64 I'm positive miq charmed him from the beginning, there's no blood to sneak into the haligtree from, how would he have found and took miquella out of there undetected unless that was miqs design?
The custom art used in this video is incredible
28:13 I think it might also be possible that they were spared because of their compassion. The formless mother seems to uplift thise who are somehow "cursed" or opressed. Perhaps those who helped the manflies, people who were "blessed" by the mother, where left alone due to their kindness. This is just a random idea I had though, your theory is probably more likely to be true.
This may be a stretch, but, by getting Ranni’s ending you’re fulfilling Ansbach’s wish, a lord for Men and not for Gods, because at the end We (Tarnished one and Ranni) leave the Lands Between in hands of their resident, with no Gods ruling them.
Agreed! I pointed this out in a conversation on another video. I think Ranni’s ending is closest to Ansbach’s ideal of bringing forth an age for the benefit of man and not the Gods.
Also, as an aside - I notice a running theme with how Outer Gods are discovered. They're discovered when people despair and need answers that the current world order can't provide them. Examples being Romina desperately finding a way to preserve her plants, infusing them with rot. Or the Bloodfiends finding the Formless Mother when they sought council from the now silent tutelary deity.
My headcanon for Mohg is that, after rotting in the sewer with his self-hating brother, was shedding his own blood in self-hatred and looking for answers (we also know from his sword that Morgott bloodlets himself). The answer WAS his own blood - a blood which held power: the power of the Formless Mother. His blood is reimagined as something noble, but also something he intends to share.
Perhaps the connection runs very deep. We could speculate that Mohg's noble blood, which can cause those receptive to it to grow horns, is a way of sharing in the noble and powerful Hornsent blood that was once hoarded in the Lands of the Tower. This is perhaps what the Bloodfiends and cultists of the Formless Mother in the shadow lands might have been surreptitiously starting with their spreading of fly sickness, but this is hard speculative territory.
Malenia when defeated summons Rot. Marika when discovering the fate of the other Shaman could have triggered a connection with the Greater Will. Hell every frenzy flame adherent. Fite Giant when webreak his leg. Ties heavily in
To the Behelit from Berserk used to summon the Godhand and we know Miyazaki loves Berserk. Great comment!
Great video so far!
Just have to say I really don't believe Miquella told mohg to kidnap him once he put himself in the tree, that really doesn't make much sense given Miquella's intentions for the tree and how Mohg kidnapping him is what killed it. The cocoon in the haligtree in the opening to the game was definitely being used to access the realm of shadow before, it's the same one in mohg's arena. Plus, mohg had his own reasons to kidnap miquella, since there was no other option for him if he wanted to become a lord - Marika was off the table, malenia was rotted, ranni was dead as far as anyone knew.
Miquella doesn't have any long distance charming abilities that would be able to charm mohg from inside the tree either, if he had that things would have gone so much more smoothly for him in becoming God. He could have charmed the player before we entered the boss arena if that was the case!
I don't think there should be any doubt that Miquella only charmed mohg after he was kidnapped, and then used mohg to continue his plans.
I agree and I say more or less this in the latter chapter!
@@SmoughTown im glad! Im a few mins in now but, just had to get ahead of the "allegations beaten" comments lol. it's a pretty cool idea, imagining that miquella found himself kidnapped and had to charm his way out of it, managing to get through mohg and ansbach. Makes him seem a lot cooler
@@UnalloyedRascal I’ve had similar thoughts as well. It’s funny to say “Mohg beat the allegations” and say he was the victim all along but there’s nothing to confirm or deny that. Unless I'm forgetting something there's nothing concrete that confirms Mohg wasn't planning on using Miquella. We know he was charmed but it's unclear when and how all that happened. Was Mohg always under Miquella's charm? Did Miquella charm Mohg after imbedding himself in the Haligtree? Was Mohg planning on using Miquella for his dynasty but Miquella pulled an UNO reverse card on Mog? Who knows, the DLC certainly wasn’t clear in that.
Yeah, but people don't care, someone has to be grifith in this history, Radhan and Mogh are just the poor victms here lol.
There is one thing tho. We hear from Freija that Miquella saved her from swamp of aeonia. This means Miquella visited caelid after the fight with radahn and Malenia.
And Guess whats directly under the swamp of aeonia? Mohgs dynasty. We also never hear why Miquella visited caelid during this time so this being the time Miquella might have charmed mohg only to then return to haligtree, cocoon up and wait for mohgs obsession to take hold on him. Thats atleast what i believe hapened.
Of the options we're given, I am at least a little upset there's no Formless Mother ending. Even in the blood-addled post-Miquella state we find it in, I am quite fond of what little we get to learn of the Mohgwyn Dynasty.
Ahhh maybe your best Elden Ring video so far Smough, definitely my favourite!! Your original Lord of Blood video was the first video of yours I saw and I've kept up with your channel ever since. You've grown so much as a creative and I really respect that :) Looking forward to more from you.
That's so awesome to hear! Thank you so much for the long term support, and pleased you enjoyed this new take on the lord of blood!
*IT’S MOHGIN’ TIME!!!*
I liked the part where Mohg moghed all over the place.
@@etinarcadiaego7424I didn’t, I wish he’d just stay on the ground and fight me like a family nyan
Holy the video quality!!! Good stuff, good job all you wonderful people who worked on this!
Thank you so much! So lucky I get to work with such talent
The Hornsent healers being agents of the Blood God is an interesting parallel with Mohg white masked surgeons. I wonder if they were converted in a similar way, an earnest desire to ease the suffering of their fellow man being warped by their constant exposure to bloodshed and pain.
the hornsent have to been worshipping the formless mother in some way, whether knowingly or unknowingly through jar ritual. the gate of divinity in the trailer just screams “formless bloody mass”, which also ticks boxes for the crucible in many descriptions. i wonder if the divine beast was just one of her vassals.
i also somewhat wonder if the formless mother, the gloam eyed queen, the rot goddess are all just fragments of marika’s discarded selves when she made the golden order. the lands between and shadow are just the literal mythologized trauma of a mad baddie
What an awesome thumbnail 🔥
Eugenia is incredibly talented
All the fan art is beautiful!
glad you could give miquella at least a little grace which is refreshing to see after reading a lot of people saying he's straight up evil. after everything we learned in the dlc it seems almost every faction has just been awful to one another so it should be expected that we'd run into morally grey areas even with supposed pure hearted characters like miquella.
Miquella is honestly more interesting as a true eternal child than as just another schemer pretending to be nice. Young children by their nature are naive, selfish, and generally don't understand that other people have feelings. Miquella wasn't just physically stunted, he also never developed past a childlike mentality that simply doesn't account for anyone's personhood.
@@blackosprey2219 that's a good point too. the saying "throwing one's toys out of the pram" comes to mind when thinking of miquella divesting pieces of himself throughout the land of shadow.
@@blackosprey2219 Good take.
I have been waiting for a video over all of this stuff since the DLC dropped, great work man
SM2 + Smough lore directly into my ears = weeknight goals 😍
I have to disagree with the idea that Mohg and Morgott walked the streets of leyndel based on the fact Morgott is referred to as "The veiled Monarch" if Morgott had walked the streets his women curse would've been known and the veil of secrecy would be unnecessary, I instead believe he and Mohg were kept as a secret known only to few in the upper echelons of society before being caged in the shunning grounds, also the mention of being tormented by spirits as a childhood memory of Mohg more likely points out to the fact all omen are tormented by spirits in their dreams and perhaps Mohgs royal blood simply gave the spirits a greater power to torment him
Great video nonetheless just thought I'd mention my idea
Totally fair mate! I go back and forth on this idea tbh - i think the veiled monarch point you make is a really solid one
I was thinking Mohg could have tripped and cut himself and suddenly spirits!
"Ahh reminds me of my childhood"
A thought on Mohg, Miquella, and the bloodletting. What if the blood spilling wasn't as reckless before Miquella? But after abducting him, the charm could have drove Mohg to order more and more blood to be spilled to "awaken" Miquella. Miquella may have ended up making the Mohgywn Dynasty far more bloodthristy than it actually was susposed to be.
Amazing video and amazing art! Mohg was always my favorite boss, and I am so happy we got a little bit more lore on him!
To be honest the Prospect town is just next to Belurat, so if a tribe of Demi humans did exist there, its likely that the Hornsent will look at them from a place of superiority and try to 'civilize' them by teaching them hornsent customs.
We know that the Hornsent though they were divine. A cultural belief perfectly suited to religious colonization.
I'm still so glad he beat the allegations. Mohg is my favorite boss in this game. He's so fucking metal, and one hell of an underdog
Mohg was yet another victim of cancel culture
Nice one. I can't wait to dive into the next topic.
The art is this video is hauntingly beautiful!
This makes me want to build a PvP character who invades in Albinauric cosplay...
Also, how cool would it be if there was an alternate route where you could save Yura, and instead of Shabriri taking over his corpse, he joins you in taking down Mohg?
Im wondering why you didn’t mention the Lamenter at all. It connects the hornest/crucible to mohg and Margott. His item says “ This transformation tallies with the state of a denizen of paradise,
but the people of the tower denied and hid it from the world. In their foolishness, they viewed true bliss with deep fear.” it’s saying how the hornsent were foolish for not recognizing that this is a being akin to someone from paradise. As well all the horns the lamented has show an influence with the crucible. We also see the lamenter having very similar abilities to Margott and mohg. We see it using black/gold fire like in the Morgott fight and we see it make copies of itself just like margott and mohg. My interpretation is margott and mohg are akin to a divine being of the crucible and the hornesnt. This also explains Mohgs wings as in the shadowlands we fight crucible knights with wings as well. This is why Marika is so cruel to them, they represent the divinity of the crucible and the hornsent who Marika wants to erase from existence.
Every time I see a new smoughtown video, it takes me to happytown.
I think you're right that the blood fiends aren't demihumans for all the reasons you gave, and also because prospect town appears to be their home town, and is more sophisticated than anything the demihumans have. I think the similarities to demihumans is evidence that they're devolving due to their transformation, so they've abandoned their village and now live in caves, have crude tools, etc.
This is a good point but de-evolution appears to occur in other contexts as well (eg the beasts of farum azula). There seems to be closer ties between the blood fiends and the demi humans but you may be right.
“Formless mother”
Looks at thumbnail
Formed mother
That's dearest miquella!
@@UnalloyedRascal ah, that would make more sense
@@jeffcarroll1990shock Bro had fallen for the Trap. Pour one out for our brother
You should do a video on Maliketh and another on Laurence
Agree - defo some stuff I want to revisit
Both the most deeply tragic figures soulsborne. I love them a lot. I recommend Laurence’s theme in his video.
Elden Ring's grim reaper being a gigachad wolf is peak Miyazaki
A question remains: Why did Miquella cocoon himself within the Haligtree in the first place? Did he genuinely intend to use the tree to achieve his order of unalloyed gold, or was this somehow a part of his plan to enter the Lands of Shadow and cross the Gate of Divinity? At what point did he become aware of that potential path?
If it's true that Malenia knew of Miquella's plans, as implied by her whispered words to Radhan during their battle, then that would suggest Miquella's pre-existing intentions to enter the Lands of Shadow, and therefore his manipulation of Mohg, or at least anticipation of his actions, even at that time.
Mohg was in need of a god for his dynasty, but I suspect that Miquella was selected at least in part due to his charm. Otherwise, perhaps Mohg himself could have been the God of Blood, and the tarnished his Lord Consort, as with other demigods in the game.
Excellent analysis, as always. The DLC was really confusing for me story-wise beyond the obvious plot lines. Your vids have added so much clarity. I’m back on the hype train!!! Thank you, Smough❤🙏🏿
Thanks for the kind words my friend! Glad you have enjoyed my interpretation of the DLC lore
How does Godefroy the Grafted fit into all of this?
Full 3 hr video on Godefroy coming soon
@@SmoughTown LOL
Great to seeya back Smough! Looking forward to another deep dive from one of the GOATs
Thanks very much! Great to be back!
What I love about from software is that they make the story of their games like a puzzle which is made up of pieces. They give us some of the pieces, but we have to fill in the rest ourselves. And sometimes multiple pieces fit in the same slot. And that's what I love, there are so many different versions of the lore and none of them are necessarily right or wrong
Agree - our understanding is ever evolving and It's exciting to revisit old subjects with new perspectives
Amazing vid,
Content like this is exactly what I’m looking for from the Elden ring community
SMOUGH DROPPIN THAT 🩸🔥
I thought the item description talking about Mogh being tormented as a child, I thought this was in reference to how the omen are cursed to be taunted in their dreams, pretty much like a reference to the nightmare apostles in berserk. This is why you pass by sleeping omen that are jerking around on the ground while they sleep.
My theory for Mogh abducting Miquella is that Miqulla was able to water the Haligtree with his blood
Awwww yeah, time to listen to a smoughtown lore video 5 separate times throughout the week cuz its the one sure way i can get to sleep.
Another masterpiece, bravo
Thanks my friend, really appreciate it
I always thought that the blood fiends were transmuted ancestral followers. The charms mention of "looking upon their ancestors body" in ritual calls back to the ancestral followers continued care of the regal ancestor spirit . The connection can also be seen in their organized group dance headed by a member at the front keeping tempo shown in the hallowhorn grounds in the base game and the rivermouth cave
Really happy Mohg beat the allegations.
Your boy still wants to give everyone magic old god super AIDS so
There's no reason to say he beat the allegations. He's just more complex than initially appeared.
You didn't finish the video before you commented did you?
@@guighee7310 If they paid attention to the DLC at all they wouldn’t have said this in the first place.
What allegations
My crazy theory: In a world where death has been absent for millenniae, bloodshed is not an inherently evil act. When Varre preaches of the love of the Mogwyn Dynasty, he is being 100% genuine. A big, happy, loving family gleefully flaying eachother's flesh in reverence of their blood god. Kinda wholesome when you think about it.
Ppl acting like we owe Mough an apology or that the formless mother is somehow good is kind of crazy to me. Are we walking around the same corrupted blood swamp?
Yeah. He's still demon king of serial killers, he just is not also king of the pdf files. You could argue that Mogh had only planned to 'kidnap' Miquella because he had been charmed to do so, or else he might have went after someone else as his candidate for being the god. Or maybe he didn't even know he needed a god, since Miquella only discovered how godhood/ascension worked later, after he had cacooned himself and the Haligtree failed. Which was why he did an about face and needed Mogh to access the Land of Shadows in the first place.
That is one problem with Smoughtown's argument about the 'kidnapping' not being initially consensual because Miquella was cacooned. He just didn't consider the inplications of the timeline. Whether or not the kidnapping was a real kidnapping or just Mogh doing what Miquella wanted, Miquella would have been cacooned either way because Miquella didn't know the Haligtree wouldn't make him a god until after he had cacooned himself to try and metamorphize himself into a god. So his argument of "Miquella wouldn't have been cacooned if Mogh had been mind controlled," is just a bad argument.
Now, it is still entirely possible Mogh did want to kidnap Miquella, but I think the evidence points more towards their factions cooperating long before the supposed kidnapping. The way to Mogh's Blood Palace area that isn't a badge he awards knights that have proven their loyalty beyond doubt is the permanent, I repeat permanent, teleport gate that is set up in the snowfield next to the teleport to the Haligtree. And Miquella being in the Land of Shadows is a relatively recent development. I'm talking about maybe a year, probably less and more around a month, was the impression I have gotten, with the player tarnished and the band "actively"chasing after his footsteps in a sequence just a little bit behind Miquella.
Not to mention the entire thing with Radahn's soul basically disproving the idea that what happened between Mogh and Miquella being a kidnapping by itself. The only reason Melania left from Miquella's side/the Haligtree is that she was trying to kill Radahn so Miquella could get his soul to stuff into Mogh's body. Miquella only learns that he needs to do that after he enters the Land of Shadows and discovers that secret rite in the library of Messmer's castle. That means that Mogh had to have 'kidnapped' Miquella before Miquella learned he needed Radahn dead for said rite, which means Malenia would have been right next to Miquella while Mogh 'kidnapped' Miquella. I doubt Mogh would have beat Melania lore-wise, and Malenia isn't transformed into a rot goddess when we reach her which means she never got desperate enough to need to do her lotus, which means Mogh more likely than not didn't beat her in a fight.
So you could make the argument that Mogh actually tried to kidnap Miquella, but I think there is much more evidence pointing in the other direction of the idea of this being a kidnapping is just outright wrong, and a purposeful misdirection the game tries to plant for the later reveal of the entire thing with Mogh taking Miquella being a plan from the beginning.
Listen man you can be a murderer, but being a .pdf, unnacceptable
massive thanks, geoff!!!
i was looking for something to listen to while i get ready for work...
and yes, vindication for mohg!!!
My pleasure! Hope you enjoy the video!
@@SmoughTown that's a given, sir!!!
Hmm, they "saw in it's _shadow_ a twisted deity", and Mohg was needed in some way to access the Shadow Lands, I wonder if there's some connection there... We tend to think of the formless mother as a pool of blood or something but what if she's the _shadows_ , or perhaps "the dark" as the thorn sorcerers also seemed to commune with her after blinding themselves with their thorns 🤔
Yeh there is defo something to mine there
The book looks sick man. Throwing it on my Xmas list for sure
So wanted to make a second comment to keep ideas organized and while its really attractive to defend our boi Mohg I do believe it’s correct to assume he tried to kidnap Miquella.
HOWEVER I feel like the revelation that he planned to use his corpse as Radahn’s vessel was too coincidental for him to not have planned, personally I believe Miquella was cocooning himself before Malenia’s fight with Radahn, afterall if he was going to go to the gate of Divinity The cocoon seems redundant now. It feels like he changed his mind (as we see evidence of him abandoning his plan with Godwynn as well) he may have sent Malenia to fight Radahn, and it feels like she really wanted him dead. The fight doesn’t seem honorable since she brought an entire army with her.
More over the fight happens right in front of Sellia. I feel like Malenia may have threatened the town to get Radahn to fight her.
But regardless while Mohg may have intended to kidnap Miquella it wouldn’t have been easy to do with how guarded the Haligtree is, ive seen some people assume he manifested himself there through a blood pool but if thats the case he wouldn’t have needed a portal in the snowfield.
I believe Miquella invited the Omen to the tree for the purpose of attracting Mohg. He could literally just walk right in.
The reason I think Miquella planned this is because if he was going to the Shadow Realm and he Gates of Divinity, he needed a vessel for Radahn, one he had control over.
More over like the Hornsent needed Sculpted Keepers to house the Divine Lion’s spirit, he needed a proper vessel to properly empower Radahn as well. Possibly with Crucible powers, alongside being Godfrey’s Blood.
And considering the options Miquella has, it comes down to Godrick, Rykard, Morgott, and Mohg.
Godrick is the weakest option by far, Rykard is literally obsessed with eating the world. While Morgott is definitely a more suitable candidate I feel like given his description of Miquella he wouldn’t be easy to charm just like Radahn initially would’ve been.
So Mohg is the best option, not only an Omen with an outer God’s blessing, but emotionally vulnerable. Very passionate. Ironically his cult represents true unconditional love and embracement of all things while Miquella forces obsession funnily enough.
He’s the perfect candidate for a vessel for Radahn’s soul and he’s a ticket to the realm of shadow.
To me it would be way to convenient for Miquella to just so happen to be kidnapped by Mohg and then Mohg turns out to be the perfect vessel for Radahn.
While Mohg may have intended to kill Miquella I believe Miquella planned on that to happen.
Another thing I haven’t seen people talk about is Torrent’s relationship to Miquella, he bears some likeness to the Crucible touched beasts in the specimen storehouse as well as the ancestor spirits underground, and given Marika is implied to be a Spirit Tuner it’s likely Miquella probably has the same potential too.
So I believe personally Miquella sent Torrent out to find a Tarnished worthy enough to become Elden Lord, and doing what the Tarnished are destined to do, we would naturally killed the Demigods like Radahn and Mohg. Making his plan possible. Another thing I noticed is the existence of Freyja, she was healed from Scarlet Rot from the Swamp of Aeonia, a place that should not exist until Malenia’s fight with Radahn, meaning Miquella was mobile after that event. I feel like his kidnapping could’ve happened after Malenia returned to the Haligtree. Seeing as he couldn’t risk his sister possibly dying again, literally ruining his reason to become a god he’d need someone else to do Radahn in.
Which is why I believe his Followers didn’t just Follow him to the Land of Shadow I believe he did in fact call them as Leda says she was.
I believe they would’ve been here to initially kill Mohg, and then Messmer, since the Tower of Shadow would need to be unveiled for Miquella as a god to be able to leave.
While this is just a theory i think this shows how good a planner Miquella is, he may have manipulated us without even meeting us. The same way Marika uses Melina to be a sacrifice to burn the Erdtree, and Hewg to help us make a weapon to slay a god, bringing about change for the Elden Ring, Miquella probably used us from the very beginning of the game and counted on our arrival to set his plan in motion, not us specifically but any Tarnished strong enough to make the journey. While Miquella seems to be emotionally childish, making and abandoning plans they definitely are well thought out, but they also seem to take alot of risks. He’s the reason Malenia blooms in Caelid, due to the possibility of a charm he may have placed on her by her own wish.
He was content to let the Haligtree rot after waiting in it for so long, as well as just giving up on Godwynn. And then there’s us.
If he did use us, he literally didn’t account for the possibility that if we defeated Radahn we could do it again, even with his combined strength.
This ultimately is just a theory, ive tried to keep things organized but i have ultimately become scatterbrained in some areas trying to put this to paper.
But a big tldr: Miquella needed a vessel for Radahn, and to get cursed to get to the Land of Shadow.
Mohg is enticed by Miquella to kidnap him. Being the blood of the Formless Mother and Godfrey he’ll empower Radahn and be subservient to him
He also needs someone to kill Radahn and Mohg so while he has Followers to kill Mohg, he sends Torrent to find a Tarnished worthy of becoming Elden Lord to do just that.
Miquella then uses his Followers and us to kill Messmer to unveil the Tower of Shadow so he can leave the Gates with Radahn as a God.
Adding onto what you said, if Miquella didn’t plan around Mohg kidnapping him, them what would be his reason for sending Melania to kill Radahn? One could argue, since we don’t know the order of events, that Miquella was kidnapped first, travelled to the land of shadow, learned of how to become a god and then sent Melania to kill Radahn. But then are we supposed to believe that while Miquella was in his cocoon , at his most vulnerable, that Melania and the rest of the haligtree army just let Mogh walk in and take him? Mogh’s not very sneaky. He’s a big guy with a ✨presence✨
The only way Mohg could comfortably walk in and take Miquella is when Melania and the army is gone, leaving no one to stop Mogh even if they spot him (and there is one ghost that does catch him in the act but can’t do anything to stop him).
So while I still can’t settle on a reason for why Miquella wouldn’t just go with Mohg, it to makes more sense for Miquella to plan around his kidnapping than be oblivious to it. Maybe he knew Melania and others wouldn’t like his method of reaching the shadow realm? After all, he’s burning himself with bloodflame to get rid of his grace, then going further by cutting off parts of himself. It sounds like an extremely painful process. Similar to how Ranni killed her body to free herself. I’m sure if Blaidd knew of that plan he would NOT have let her go through with it (both because he cares and also the two fingers wouldn’t allow it). I feel like Melania would be the same so Miquella would have to make a show of using some other method (the coccon) to throw her off for at least long enough that things would already be underway when she got back (helps that she went into a coma after the fight. I always wondered if St. trina had a hand in that.)
That last bit is pure speculation but its the best thing i can come up with that isn’t too much of a stretch to believe
Starting a fresh playthrough and listening to this is EXACTLY what i needed tonight. Cannot express how annoyed today ended especially after work..lets go.
"not for gods, but for man" this line is the best one in all Elden Ring for me.
Same - just such good writing
It’s such bad writing because it actively ignores anything the player does. Especially when you can immediately do Ranni’s, or Frenzy Flame ending making his point moot. You literally can do stuff on par or even worse than Miquella’s world which shows how poorly thought this DLC’s story is.
@@simonealcazar816 That's Ansbach's last wish, it doesn't bind you to any course of action. Besides, Ranni's ending is probably the best for all the living beings in the Lands Between.
@@simonealcazar816Not following your logic here. Its Ansbach’s dying wish. It doesnt bind the player character in any particular way, and in any event the ending that best realizes this ideal is open to interpretation and debate.
I just gotta say - Mohg is a badass, one of the roughest boss fights in the whole game with a crazy hard level before reaching him, I wonder what would happen if the tarnished let him build his dinasty of blood
If you watch the whole video before commenting, you'd have a solid idea since Smough goes over this exact topic. If anything a Miquella ending would be much better to have in game
the fact that varre injects blood under the fingernail specifically always bothered me so much. Blood buildup under nails hurts like hell.
I had to try Mohg’s shackle on Radhan just to see if it would work. It doesn’t, probably linked to Mohg’s soul, not body.
From probably didn’t want or forgot the Shackle to work on the Final DLC boss. There’s no good reason why it shouldn’t work and would’ve rewarded people pay attention to the story but this DLC constantly fails at rewarding you for that in general so I’m not surprised.
ya thats how i see it as well, which kinda tracks with the item usage, as you never touch their body you just slam it into the floor and then get shackled down, especially with all the importance of spirits. the shackles are definitely soul binding
alternatively, the body tho it was once mohgs is now not, still not fully radahn, but no longer mohg
Eugenia is so talented! Always happy to see her work paired with your great content!
Also hope you're keeping well Geoff
Hey Ross - cheers as always for the support. It genuinely means the world to me, to have your support. Hope you are good as well
I'm so excited for this, but I'm going to wait to listen to it at work. Give me a little treat while running my laser
Thanks so much! Hope work goes well!
25:00 I'm going with demi-humans on this one. Given the worship of the crucible it's very likely that they could have created the demi-humans. Besides, no horns, which is pretty well the only endemic feature of the hornsent. Mohg's tribe has horns because it's his blood they are working with, the blood fiends would have had horns were it in their blood to have them. Had they been descendant from the hornsent, they'd have horns.
Omen are attacked in their dreams by horned ghost, I believe this to be the spirits that assailed mohg as a child.