The BIGGEST Changes in the 40k Balance Update | Warhammer 40k News
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- #Warhammer40k #40knews
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Get the Dataslate here: www.warhammer-community.com/2...
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:55 Devastating Wounds Rework
02:44 Stratagem Changes
06:06 Towering Rework
08:02 Unit Size Changes
08:41 Every Aeldari Nerf
09:21 Deathwatch Nerfs
10:07 Admech Infantry Buffs
10:15 Votann Rework
11:03 Deathguard Rework
12:08 Genestealer Cults Nerfs
14:01 Imperial Knights Nerfs
15:35 Outro 
Игры
They have no clue what they're doing. The balance we had at the end of 9th was them finally getting lucky after shooting in the dark for 20 years. 9th should have never ended
6:00 In the meta watch interview today on Warhammer Community, he confirmed Battleshock has had far less impact on the game then they expected.
(something almost every 40k player had already realised).
So in his words, changing Insane Bravery to once per game, was their way of trying to keep Battleshock relevant.
Imo they should have removed the automatic recovery at the start of the turn, strengthening the battle shock army/unit abilities. Changing bravery to before the test is imo good, but I‘m not a fan of „once per battle“ stratagems.
I don’t think this is going to have a huge effect on the game. TBH for a vast majority of games I played and watched, battle shock has not been relevant. Too many times the units will pass them anyway.
The devastating wounds thing is a definite upgrade. Many commonly used units with feel no pain have it vs mortal wounds specifically. Chaplains just lost a massive amount of utility for example.
Maybe but that might just be specific for your army for me I definitely feel it's a side grade, thunderhammers are now a bit weaker into lower wound models but still hit hard into Elite stuff like terminators. And Eldar definitely feel like it's a downgrade.
It's literally lethal hits in the wound roll
@@dinosuarman13except no saves of any kind. Lethal hits allows saves. What it means is any feel no pain ability that keys off of mortal wounds no longer applies. It makes it much more lethal to my army as I have no inherent FNP in any of my armies
Now Devastating wounds somehow reminds me to the old rending rule from editions before 8th. However, rending allowed you to use invulnerable save.
@@dinosuarman13no, you get invl and armor saves against lethal hits.
Bugs me on some level that we can't sit with an edition for longer. 9th was in a great spot for balance in general at the end, but it felt like as soon as that was achieved it was baby out with the bathwater time, and tough luck to factions with late release codex's. I didnt moan at the time, but it bugs me more in retrospect now, moving from that into something that's already starting to feel messy.
100% agreed. Late 9th was actually very good. There were a few things that would have been good to tweak (damage gate abilities were pretty obnoxious, for example, and I do agree with trying to tone damage output down), but 10th has been a massive downgrade so far.
I'm a little surprised to see a bunch of powerful units getting max unit size caps, but for some reason wraithguard didn't. It would help a lot with wiping the unit to stop revivals, and forces us to take a second spiritseer if we still want 10 models spread over 2 groups.
Aeldari needed harder nerfs. Full stop.
Totally agree. Here’s a faction that has it all. Movement , tough units, arguably the best dice manipulation in the game, deep roster of units with powerful abilities, anti-infantry, anti-vehicle, mortal wound output, and etc. etc. For this data slate all games workshop did was increase the cost of their most used units and decrease those that are not and a side grade to a powerful stratagem.
I fully expect the Eldar win rate to drop a full 10%…which would still probably leave them above 55%.
How do you know? You hadn't even played a game against them. Loads of people said they needed bigger nerds but at that stage nobody had even played one game, let alone 3 or 4 games 🤷🏼♂️ you almost certainly haven't some that even now.
Just by having played against them, and reading the rules and understanding the game it is pretty obvious. But dont take my word for it, Art of War (the team of the best Players in the US atm) also said this exact same thing. @@jacket2848
Tyranids got nerfed so hard at like a 50% win rate lol and now my codex is half redundant before it's even arrived 🥴
Felt
Am I crazy? We are basically still on idex costs. Zonthopes costing 20 more isn't the end of the world 😂
@@sheevismycity4789 I think the fact that we got a bunch of drops with the codex that then went back up made it hurt more haha Zoanthropes maybe 10 would have been better than 20 but I think it's reasonably fair. T-fex has me PISSED tho
Thats why is better wait and download a pirate pdf codex
@@WondefullComment You're definitely right! I'll know for next time I guess 😂
Im a little shocked Aeldari didn't get any change... so, looks like aeldari will be #1 solely without gsc.
Grey Knights nerf to Grandmaster is pretty painful. He already only gets to use it once per battle… now he has a much smaller selection.
With this change, they should change the wording to allow them to have a zero CP cost stratagem every round instead of once per game. Like every other army does.
it would have been neat if the aeldari detachment rule had been changed to something fun and interactive instead of just a "number go up" that incredibly disproportionately favors low-cadence high-value weapons, like bright lances, prism cannon lance shots and such (which are also already the meta weapons due to high vehicle toughnesses)
Skullsquirm gona be fun with helbrutes special make target be in that contagion range
hell yeah
The imperial knights I've been working on for 2 years aren't looking very fun ATM
I am happy with some point drops of Sisters, but I would wish for a bit of a rules rework à la Death Guard. The points will make it a better faction than it was yesterday, for sure, but I feel that all the other factions in the same range got the same, and more, and I feel that sisters will go down in the power ranking, even if, again it is a better version of itself than yesterday.
As a Drukhari player, only getting a token if I take a weak model makes me want the same thing!
Tau is in that point reduction boat and no changes otherwise as well.
DG did get a rules rework though. Their ability completely changed.
Dude… Stern Vets now absolutely shred Custodes
Notably with custodes, the free strat to use will be arcane genetic alchemy (-1 damage). So theyre not as burned as it looks off the bat. (The other battle tactics are 1 cp)
The bloat begins to fix poorly constructed or playtested rules. For example mortal and devastating wounds... ffs
Knights still getting the taxes from towering, without most of the string ability towering had...
So glad death guard got this cool new mechanic.
Their my 2nd favorite army and im looking forward to seeing what the gross boys can do now.
But can mortals wounds trigger normal FNP? Or the rules may say that specifictly like in custodes detachment?
yes, they do
I completely agree with your rundown of the dataslate.
Thanks Trevvy. Keep up the good work. Good video!
This felt like a big party foul
What I don't understand about these balance updates is, are you supposed to also be using rules from the previous balance update earlier this year, or do you only use these ones?
Where does one find the Leviathan grand tournament 2023 rules?
It's a pamphlet included in the Index Card set I believe
the video I needed. "Oh, new data slate and rules changes....naaaahhhh TT 🐢gonna break this down for me ASAP. I'll wait for the video."
i got u fam
As a tyranid player lol😢
I play nids and knights. I think GW hates me personally
The change to CP-increasing abilities seems a bit unnecessary - it just limits an ability that doesn't really need to be limited
I think it is more too balance it against armies that don't have a second use 0cp ability
As a genestealer cult player, the nerfs would have felt a little better if we would have seen similar or harsher nerfs to aeldari, who seem to have escaped everything but a few targeted points nerfs.
Agreed. If they had added in, fate dice dont count as natural, that would help. So if you use a fate dice of 6 on a wound, no devastating wounds, on hits no lethal or sustained, just counts as a passed hit wound ect.
Getting hit by the trifecta (point increase, weaker respawn, and removing strat options) hurts...
Not that I think the nerfs were enough, but Phantasm did get a pretty big nerf, and Eldar were absolutely the biggest losers from the dev wounds change. They may not have been hit as hard as GSC, but they absolutely did see nerfs outside of targeted points changes. They probably did need to get hit harder, but I think it is a little much to say they escaped everything but points nerfs.
A few? Across the board their points went up, and the devastating wounds change was big. Again, you hadn't even played against eldar post change when you made that comment, so you're being disappointed in your own guesswork. I bet you still haven't played against eldar 😅
I'd like to point out now that mortal wounds are a few and far between seeing how psychic weapons were mostly devastating wounds outside of deadly demise and hazardous I can't think of anything causing mortal wounds maybe jump pack units on the charge?
That would figure, drukhari get points raises most of the way.
they got one increase and the decreases on almost every other unit in the index
Called it looks like games workshop forgot about how eldar was destroying everybody in and they never bothered changing anything
they screwed up tyranids bad
Wym? I play nids and I Feel fine. The tyranofex points hurt me on a personal level, but like everything else is mostly the same. Is makeing the norn emissary 5 more points of barbgaunts 10 really the end of the world? 😂
It's a bit if whiplash from the codex numbers, but we have been fine with the idex costs and this is basically that.
Tyrants stratagem made worse, zoans increased, tyrannofex increased more than anything in the aeldari army, swarmlord increase, recent spore mine hit, hive guard increase, tervigon increased, winged tyrant increased, biovore increased. We were already sitting at 50% winrate, why do you think nerfs don’t hurt that?
@@evilkungfu Most of the increases you mentioned were on units that were already bad? Boivores are are still great tou only needed one realistically anyways and now we have 20 point rippers. I do agree the tyranofex change was bad but that is one unit.
Also, how the hell are our Strats worse? Rapid regen is the only one you REALLY want to use twice every turn of once fir free. And it's fine. The only other one is also a battle Tactic for crit on 5s.
I will say I am also sad about swarmy, His extra cp is more valuable for strats that can't be free. But he is definitely to expensive now. Still that doesn't break the army.
@@sheevismycity4789 you obviously didnt look at all the points cost changes. swarmlord is 270 points now. that is atrocious.
The changes are good and im happy GW is trying to make the game a better experience. That being said the competitive community represents a tiny portion of the community. I hope this is a positive change to the community instead of the negative outlook everyone has had of 10th because 4% of the community are struggling against each others cheese lists. I say this as a sisters player whos been doing great this edition even having to play our martyred lady instead of argent shroud. I hope this inspires someone to play for fun and focus less on winning and maybe bring out those armies you have collecting dust.
CK didn't need the points increases, and the faction ability is still meh.
For me it is so wierd that Deathguard did not get a FNP Sickness Aura option. The ones they got are cool, but you really have to be up close.. with slow models. Scanrous looks really interesting with the Battle Shock changes.
This. Nurgle Bless Our Constitution In The Kindest Of Ways, Chat.
Maybe FNP will be a detachment rule when they get their codex?
DG fans want that FNP so much, that GW probably will need a couple of editions to give it to them. Though it’s as likely that one of the future detachments is simply a FNP 5+ detachment.
How can you see what type of strategem it is ? (I want to know about field of fire from the guard)
it's written on the stratagem card usually just under the name, things like battle tactic, epic deed or strategic ploy.
@@555tork thank you never saw it haha
The dev wounds change only nerfs high damage weapons, and only the wraith knight could trigger them at will, so has a dark angels player I fell that dev wounds are way worse now. Dmg 1, 2 and 3 dev wounds weapons got buffed vs marines.
Why do a lot of these feel like GW said 'oh, that's why we didn't do that in 9th'?
I could be wrong, but I do not see this helping votann much. Yes, we get up to 10 jt extra. What does that do? Before we gave it to 1 unit, because it was the opponents death star, that we wanted to focus on. Now, we can split our fire, to weaker units. Who will not get tokens when they destroy a unit, because they already have two. But we are not gone fire on those units anyway, because we need to get the death star. Basically, we might get cp that we normally would not get.
And otherwise we got the point decrease we told we did not want. Pretty certain this will not help people wanting to play votann at all. I hope i am wrong, but I do not see it. And now both deathguard and admec will crush us with their new rules.
Sorry, but your argument is bad. Arguing „but we will not attack other units as we only ever attack the death star“ is a bad faith argument. We both know that your army attacked other units in all games you ever played. So we both know that more tokens will make it easier to destroy these other units and will have a significant effect in all Votann games played.
As a matter of fact, you can still focus the death star and leverage the additional tokens later on. How much you want to risk splitting damage for the CPs is up to you, not some kind of nerf to getting more tokens. Furthermore, that you can choose more targets helps you in cases where targeting the death star is difficult (like Nurgle protected CSM).
I get that you didn’t get the changes you wanted, but you trying to argue that more tokens is bad, is just hilarious.
Yup looks like my Sisters are definitely getting shelved ;(
Hot take - thousand sons got hit harder than aeldari
I think most (not all) of the changes across factions were fine. But Aeldar are so stratospherically better than every other faction, the idea that making devastating wounds not mortals plus some piddling points increases and a minor strat restriction is going to reign them in sufficiently is ridiculous. don't think that would have been enough even before the nerfs to the second tier contenders, but it almost certainly won't happen now. Iused to be ambivalent about the idea of banning Aeldar from competitions, now am all for it. Even in a pickup game, I will refuse to play against Aeldar for now, unless my opponent is a complete beginner who only has one faction and just wants to learn the game, in which case fine, they deserve a handicap anyway.
What are you talking about? These changes bust their strongest combos. The units most used in competitive lists received 20% and higher points increases.
@@Melonmancer The problem is that Eldar is just broken ... that they just need to use their other datasheet who are also broken ... just not as broken as the previous one. Competitive player play with optimised list, that doesnt mean that the datasheet they aren't using are bad, just that they aren't as good. It will be like the DE during 9th ed where at each dataslate they were nerfig them because they were still op
@@pompomponpon4000Wow... it's almost like balancing is some sort of iterative process. Pity GW didn't bother hiring any clairvoyants so they could perfectly balance every datasheet before any players started using them.
@@MelonmancerAnd now you ignore that lots and lots of competitive players were telling GW for weeks that ignoring the just less op data sheets is a bad idea. Too many competitive players are already fed up with Aeldari, ignoring feedback given in order to extend the time Aeldari can be op isn’t a good play right now.
@@davidgantenbein9362 "Competitive players" said that Necrons would be the worst army in 10th after seeing the army rule. People don't know what they're talking about until they actually start running games with new updates. But no, apparently, we need a new, massive update that changes the stats, rules and points for every unit in the eldar lineup. It's not like the game's balance was entirely thrown off by the switch between editions doing exactly that, let's just plug every RUclips comment suggestion into the rules machine and wait for the game to become perfectly balanced.
The incompetence of GW at crafting rules ten editions into a game this "premium" is rather astonishing.
How do we know which are Battle tactic strategems and which are not?
the stratagem lists is just under its name
That Custodes lose their 4++ vs devastating weapons now is just ridiculous poor game design.
Not really makes more situation specific, which fine custodes in the table top game should actually die and not just stick around for ever that's a necron only thing.
Devastating wounds not carrying over still makes their 3 wounds awkward to deal with. They are still resistant to tank shock and grenades.
@@saberz6615what? Thats custodes lore though. They rarely ever die because they’re the strongest warriors fhe imperium has to offer. Each custodes is the equivalent to a demi-god
@@zepaduse97 that's i said table top not lore. Since armies on the table need to feel unique form each as best they can. Custodes are we are super mega elite 1 man armies. That's there gimmick as an army they should be tough but not impossible to down. Necrons gimmick is not fucking dying cause there robots skeletons with the ability to reanimate. Before being adjusted Custodes and Necrons were both occupying the We just don't fucking die gimmick on the table. Just one shot you and one smacked you up-close.
Let’s not talk about lore, as a Grey Knight player.
Bought knights just two days ago, now they’re RIP, gg.
I see it differently. Now that Towering is solved, GW will have to undo some nerfs in the next balance release. My guess is that we see points decreases for Knights next quarter.
I appreciate your optimism. @@davidgantenbein9362
Ya, the combo of nerfs is a killer for the bigger knights. Questoris and up can't overwatch, don't gain any bondsman buffs, and still retain the points increase from when towering was OP. They pushed knights back to where they were last edition when you only wanted to play armigers, then they increased the cost of them too. But I will tell you that 13 armigers is rather fun to play.
The bears looks sharp, dude
sooo: imperial and chaos costes more points because of the towering los problem. now they solved the problem aaand the knight stay the same points plus the little one got more expensive? that's a titanic troll 😂
Dont forget that they also took away overwatch, and bondsmen abilities don't benefit the knight itself. Just finished building mine, too :(
oh i feel you friend... ck or ik?
imagine the following: points same as at the start of the edition. bondsman works for both. you can fire overwatch with the biggies and towering works as it does now. would it be OP of fun?
@@viju_diju couldn't say if it was OP or not, but it sure would be better. And IK lol.
dont forget an indirect nerf since now horde armies r unafected by mortal wounds and knights are not
do you mean the devastating wounds nerf?
yeah... it feels like GW just carpet bombed with this nerfs and adjustments to kill one single thing...
Devastating wounds are now better than mortal wounds? That doesn't seem right.
It's essentially lethal hits in the wound roll
@@dinosuarman13 I didn't think of it that way but yeah 👍 that's a fair comparison
Do we ban Eldar if they stay above 60% tournament win rate? (Let’s ignore normal win rate for now)
I m sorry, why can´t you use FNP on dev wounds anymore???
You can’t use FNP on devastating wounds because they reworded devastating wounds.
They literally said its an autowound that you can’t roll to save; but they no longer spill over.
If I do 3 devastating wounds with 1 attack to a squad of 3 with 2 wounds each (6 total) I would kill 1.5 models. Now it only kills 1 because no spill over.
Because Devastating Wounds doesn’t cause Mortal Wounds. Those Feel No Pain rules were triggering off of the Mortal Wounds.
you can use FnP as long as the FnP in question is not only against mortal wounds.
I think a lot of people are underestimating the nerf to custodes. Is a considerable hit to the faction. Out of 19 feel no pain saves rolled in my game tonight i rolled one of them and tyranids rolled 18 on units that cost less than half of mine
As always the pendulum keeps swinging the other way
Honestly, I was kind of surprised that GW didn’t adjust their detachment ability to work on any wounds that bypass saves.
Otherwise GW did a good job in nerfing the 10 men units and the Fight First free stratagem. The point adjustments seem to be focused on internal balance and not out of the blue.
But yeah, the nerf of the FNP against devastating wounds is imo wrong/strange. My guess is that we will see further adjustments here as the whole devastating wounds thing isn’t solved nicely yet.
Had it been the points, I would not say anything, they were mostly valid apart from the increase to shield captain on bike who just negated the reduction to the bike squad. But the fights first was overdone. Removed from free, sure, it can only be used on strategic points, but ok, not getting it free I could live with. Increase the cost in addition was too much. Again from my game yesterday, fights first was used 3 times, and all three times by the Tyranids.
As for FNP, it just hurts, and if not for that I could have lived with the rest although, as I said, a 1 point cost for fights first on point would have been more fair IMHO, the change then being that you could not take it for free and in addition. That restriction would have been enough. Size changes was needed tbh, 10 squad of guards were just too much.
@@shiir440 Does the new Tyranids codex have a Fight First stratagem?
I don't know, it was not used against me though, the fights first was abilities.
So what is the point of a invulnerable save with no fnp?
Trevaliscious, T-Funk, Most tactically minded of tortoises: I looked at a couple of the AdMech lists that have been performing well, and the points changes look to give them around 100-150 extra points to play with. I’m pretty sure that doesn’t get AdMech to a 50% win rate.
The Skitarii buff is certainly appreciated, but I’m not sure it does anything other than reduce the cost of the the tax to make other units battleline abilities work. I don’t think it makes them worth taking on their own merit, so I don’t think we are going to see Skitarii hordes any time soon. Even though AdMech could now put 120 Skitarii on the table and still have almost half their points left in a 2K list, there isn’t much reason to actually do it. Skitarii no longer hit hard enough to be worth spamming, and we can’t buff our way out of that problem with 10-man units either. I’m not expecting to see more than the two or three units we see currently in lists, even with the improved points and defensive profile.
I swear I have watched 4 different tubers explain this devastating wound rule change and I still don't see how it works compared to its older rule
damage doesn't spill over.
It stops the spill over effect that Mortal Wounds have, while it also ignores any FNPs against Mortal Wounds.
This means that the high damage DW weapons are now no longer efficient into infantry, just into vehicles/monsters. Which was the original idea of Aeldari DW weapons in design.
BUT it nerfs any FNPs against MWs, most notably the detachment ability of Custodes, but others also have those.
That’s why this change is as much a nerf as it is a blessing, and why people argue that Custodes got nerfed hardest, while Aeldari will just switch to the other op units.
Anyone ever say you remind them of Ethan Chlebowski?
They did the Guard dirty! 😓
Owh no tell me why? What do i dont see😮
@@nigelvisser1776 Well, the Guard lists who did the best at tournaments played lots of forge world artillery, because the codex ones got nerved harder before. They got a lot more expensive. The scout sentinel, which these list played increased by 10 points The centerpiece of this list was a Baneblade and eventhough some variants got cheaper the lose of overwatch makes them worse.
So overall the best stuff the Guard was playing got worse. They decreased the costs on the tanks and other stuff, but mostly not by a significant amount. Maybe a new type of list like mechanized is viable, but i am wondering why saw the need to nerv a faction with a 40% winrate, which could not win anything with even these optimized lists before.
All the while Tau got significant point reductions on there meta stuff, while only being like 2% below Guard in winrates.
Live stream: armies had their assholes hollowed out
Video: armies were reigned in
Eldar: hahahahahahaha we still in it boys
I'm pleased Towering has gone. It wasn't necessary and made Knights far too strong. They didn't need to lose overwatch though.
I was really hoping that Aeldari would get rebalanced a lot more and Death Guard really need their FNP back again.
Towering isn’t really gone, it’s just transformed into something less of an issue. It’s still good for Knights as it still allows to negate obscuring in a way. Imo it’s now what Knights needed as they have issues with terrain, but it can be played for and against, aka it doesn’t win automatically.
Don't forget that they got the bondsman nerf too. Only hits the armigers now instead of both. In my opinion they got nerfed harder than any other faction and from a 55% win rate...
@@TheMalthas I had forgotten that. I agree that they should not have lost Bondsman, as that was fine.
Dear god , no need to start turning the mechanics inside out . Just nerf the goddamn eldar.
And keep those friggin elf fetishistsOUT of the balance room
Add a comment...
:)
No changes to uber defensive Necrons ?
Eldar not even getting nerfed, but we are hitting Custodes hard ok GW ...
Try reading the update.
Necrons got points increases on their most defensive unit and can’t play the resurrection stratagem for free anymore. So your assessment in regards of Necrons not being nerfed on their defensive built is simply wrong.
Is it enough? i don’t know, maybe not. But they got a nerf.
Same goes for Aeldari. They clearly received nerfs, even a targeted nerf to one of their best stratagems. People are not happy with the Aeldari nerf, because they left out any of the second line of op units that started to emerge recently. Here the complaint is that it’s mot enough nerfs, not that there are no nerfs.
So yeah, the only thing correct in your statement is that Custodes got hit hard.
As a GK player I feel GW trolled us.
AOW guys disagree with you, wholeheartedly.
Why, you got a huuuge buff lol
Ugh. The fact they changed the core rulebook is really upsetting. I'm sure it's better balanced now or whatever but I am really not happy that the actual rulebook is not a reliable resource anymore. Would absolutely trade a less well balanced game to not have to wonder if the rules in front of me are 'correct' or not
Custodes about to get wiped by devastating wounds. Need to make their detachment 5+ FNP or something.
Custodes dont need buffs lmao
@@johnnyohm4579 but also not huge nerfs
10% point increase across the board, limiting an entire archetype from the game by limiting the squad size AND your detachment ability is now useless, is a bit overboard.
Of and you can't use the fight first for free anymore with your captain ability, almost forgot ......
Custodes were not even in the top of the problem armies.
@@azir64 Custodes are supposed to be the best the imperium has, time to act like it
stodies will spam terminators now and will be therefore nerfed nextime around but yeah as a big stodies player it feels a bit much
devastating wounds change was horrible. this is 9th edition nonsense all over again. "this weapon ignores invulnerable saves except on models with super invulnerable saves that your invulnerable save ignoring weapon cant ignore" this change defeats the whole purpose of mortal wound saves... theyve just repackaged mortal wounds in a form that cant be saved against. instead of fixing just fixing mortal wounds!
Thousand Sons already had this mechanic on the 10th ed. index launch. Now it's accessible from the core rules. Mortal wounds are still fundamentally different from this, have a different utility and are harder to come by.