Revisionist history aside, when Bobby The Brain Heenan held up The Big Gold Championship on WWF television while touting the Real World Champion was coming....It was the eptiome of a BIG DEAL!
But did it move fans from one brand to another? I think JR is meaning that it didn't matter in terms of losing or bringing fans. He's inconsistent by not seeing the difference between Bret leaving with the belt. People who preferred the WCW product were not going to be swayed by Flair going to Vince's cartoon. So, in kayfabe it was a big deal but outwith, not so much...
@@leetant935 First Bret is no Flair. Flair was THE World's Champion who WCW fans were still clearing clamoring for. Of course, those still chanting Flair's name turned in to see his intial WWF run . Most especially hoping for the "dream match" with Hogan that only saw house shows. Unfortunately Hogan and Flair had some of the worst chemistry then & for the Northeast wasnt as big of a draw as the company anticipated.
While Ric leaving was a huge deal, taking the company’s world title belt on the rival’s TV can’t be understated. JR is just letting his overall lack of caring about belts cloud his judgement here. It was an earthshaking moment, never happened before that I can recall.
It was earth-shattering. I remember seeing it as a kid and every kid I knew that watched wrestling thought it was just crazy to see the top belt from another company get paraded around on WWF television - first by Bobby Heenan prior to Flair's debut and then after the fact by Flair for several weeks. WCW clearly knew it mattered because they filed suit to stop it. Further, Vince and company KNEW IT MATTERED because they had Flair work it into his gimmick, talking in promos about Jack Tunney video distorting the belt.
@@BlackMikeP I think they blurred out Flair holding the WCW belt at some point on WWE TV and Flair was actually holding up a modified WWF tag team belt and not using the WCW belt for tapings.
I believe it was Cornette who recently said Vince didn't have to worry about Bret showing up the next night on Nitro with the belt. He had to worry about Bischoff announcing on Nitro that they signed the WWF champion. Bret wasn't scheduled to appear on WCW tv for a few weeks, I think
@@demariusoliver9434 that's true but he answered the question incorrectly. It may not have been a big deal to himself, but the belt or champ being taken by another promotion was a big deal to the business and a massive slap in the face.
@@LiL-Shrek2onDVD nah, you didn't like the way he answered the question.. Conrad asked him questions to get his thoughts on a subject then how can he be wrong or answer incorrectly? It's his opinion. I get what you're saying, but it's his opinion whether we like it or not.
@@demariusoliver9434 nope, he asked him "was it a big deal?" Not "was it a big deal to you?" Obviously to JR it wasn't a big deal but in general, to the greater pro wrestling community, it sure as hell is a big deal. Why do you think Jeff Jarrett was able to hold Vince to ransom for 300 grand at No Mercy 99? Why do you think the Montreal screwjob went down the way it did? He didn't answer Conrad's question, he answered something completely different. Why did triple H get punished for the curtain call? Why did they keep kayfabe as seriously as they did?
I'm surprised Jim has this take. the belt is a prop but in this case wasn't a WWF prop. it was the rivals prop. a different name brands prop. but I will say it made great TV
It was a big deal. Just because it wasn't to JR doesn't mean it wasn't to the business. It definitely was. Conrad made a good point about the Montreal screwjob and that in itself proves it was a massive deal.
@Fugp Basis wait so it wasn't a big deal to those people who didn't know that the WCW even existed? What about those WWF fans that did know of WCW? What about to WCW fans at the time? I get it wasn't a big deal to JR or to yourself, but he nor you get to decide and speak for the business or the community in general. It was a big deal. I get the physical belt is a prop but the act in itself is a major slap in the face under any circumstances.
The big gold belt really was just a prop.flair had it made for himself for bling.any belt is so devalued now.the wwe gives everyone that wins anything a belt .won a spelling bee here's a replica belt.cornhole championship here's a belt.hell they don't care enough to but effort in to make the two world championship belts they have now different (that they have two world championships says enough.) They're identical except one is blue the other red.
Not his point. He meant that you don't need a belt to get over in the business of wrestling and sell tickets and make a paycheck. He's saying the whole game is about making money and if you are making money for yourself and your company, THAT'S success in pro wrestling, whether you ever hold a title or not. Applies not just to wrestlers but to every on screen talent from ring announcers to commentary to managers.
I love how few shits he's grown to give in his old age. He DGAF. He's got nothing to prove, he's established his legacy, he put up with too many people's BS for too many years and he knows he never has to do that again for the rest of his life.
J.R. just SHAT all over Conrad with that "it was a prop, have another one made next week" line XD....... hey.. one mans "prop" is another mans multi thousand, possibly million, dollar passion..
I remember being 13 years old at the time and Flair taking the belt and it being blocked out on TV was HUUUUUUUGE!!!!!!!! Totally added to Flair’s aura.
@Brian Krawczyc Yeah I agree with you on that. But I'm thinking Conrad wishes he could do that question over again and ask it differently. It was obviously a big deal to most in the business that were working closely to and with Vince. But apparently it wasn't a big deal to J.R. personally. I think J.R. answered the question on how he felt personally about it and unfortunately I think Conrad may wish he could have rephrased the question asking Good ole J.R. the question in a way to convey how others felt about the belt showing up on tv in another company.
the nwa sent s ceise and desict letter to vince! and then they also couldnt use the vegas big gold belt cause it looked to similier to the big gold belt!! fun fact no one owns the design to the big gold belt
From a fan's perspective, it was huge in both cases. When Flair came over with that belt, it was mind blowing in the early 90s. I really thought the plan was to have Flair chase Hogan down from the perspective of being an outsider who wasn't one of the safe WWF opponents, eventually win the WWF title, and trade it a few times. Didn't go down that way, sadly. Being older and more cynical, part of me thinks maybe that was never the plan. Chance to put a rival champion into the midcard, which is exactly what happened to Flair at Wrestlemania even though the title was on the line. When Medusa tossed the WWF title, it said, live on the air, "the best thing WWF had to offer me was junk compared to WCW". Huge.
I can accept the fact that belts are just “props” in the grand scheme of writing storylines & angles in pro wrestling… but belts are EXTREMELY important. Sure, you can have huge matches/moments without belts, but having belts be held in high regard, and meaning everything to the wrestlers, makes the entire show mean more. If everyone is getting on podcasts & interviews and saying that belts don’t mean anything, then why should fans care? It’s generally understood that it’s all pre-planned, but one thing that fans can still buy into is that a guy wins the big match for the World title and has been promoted to “the guy” by the booker of the show. It’s what made the Daniel Bryan/Authority angle so compelling. Fans knew Bryan had the skills and should be the top guy, and the Authority represented WWE ignoring the fans and trying to hold a guy down from winning the World title and getting the top spot.
If JR was given a golden mic to use as a token of appreciation then someone else started using it he would cry like a baby. He reminds me of the friend you can't joke around with cause they are always butthurt.
@@paulrodney951 While you are not wrong, your not right either, The Big Gold Belt had a lineage and history that fans in droves connected with, so it was more than a Prop
@@paulrodney951 Guess what? The belts in UFC & Boxing are props because without them; there would be no reason for fans to watch. There would be no ranking system that is designed to elevate fighters and boxers. That pro wrestling is pretty determined is isn't what defines the belts as props because Kurt Angle's Gold Medals like every medal in every Olympic event are props. Without them; there would be no Olympics. Props are used to draw in fans and make money.
@@darshin95 I don't see Wrestling Championship belts as a props anymore more or less than I see anything used anywhere else as props. And you're exactly right. The lineage makes it more than a prop because that becomes history which in turn become memories. End of the day, the belt doesn't make somebody champion because they're already the champion before they hold the belt. The belt simply symbolises they're the champion of that Title and that's the same in MMA, In Boxing and the different coloured belts earned in Karate. If one of any of the above is a prop, every one of the above is a prop. I just wouldn't tell a karate fighter that their belt is a prop....
It’s not about the physical belt. It’s about a champion going to the opposition without losing the belt. In some minds it’s makes that fed look second rate and disrupts the title lineage. What’s a bigger symbol of dominance than your champ is on our show. It’s not the most important thing but it’s a big symbol.
Yep...but let me take it a step further...not only is the champ of the competition on our show, but he paraded the belt too. Made one hell of a statement.
Ok Ross, why don’t you ask the men who bleed for that “ prop” what it means to them? Why don’t you ask Ric! Steve! Arn! Tully! Jericho! Cody and anyone who had actually climbed into the ring and worked their butts off to carry around that “ prop” and see what kind of responses you receive? Yes we all know it is a kayfab title! But it symbolizes to the world and the company that at this time we believe you are what we need in this top spot. Now you who never bleed or fought for your spot among the boys, you can call it a prop! But when I wrestled even in the small group I worked with and for I was homered when on 8 different occasions they put the strap on me. When there were many others they could have went to. So on till you fight for a living ( ksyfab ir not) do not talk what you do not know.
I haven't read anyone else's comment on this yet. I'm two minutes into this clip, and I'm completely floored by Ross' response. I couldn't disagree more with what he's saying. I'm not sure if perhaps he just doesn't understand the question from Conrad or if he really is this delusional. Having Flair show up on WWF TV in 1991 with the NWA/WCW World Title was mind-blowing at the time as a fan. It had nothing to do with being a "belt collector". The WWF hadn't recognized any other organization or any other form of wrestling outside of it's own except for just a handful of passing, vague references since 1984 (Harley Race as a "former champion", a couple of guys holding "regional" championships, etc.). This was an epic event, something that went beyond an angle. This was ground-breaking, earth-shattering stuff, and it was way more important than a response about the belt being a prop.
Those belts was not coveted like a Superbowl Ring. In all fairness they was props just as JR said,but old school wrestling fans didnt think of them like props,we thought of them differently.
Love JR but disagree with him on this one. Although the titles were props, they meant something to most real wrestling fans so seeing another title on the competitions screen said alot... If that's not a big deal which tells a story then wrestling in itself means nothing. Jus sayin
Any one know what happened to the WM 17 belt that Austin won? That was my favourite of all time and I would love to know where it is at today? Does Conrad own it?
I thought he asked JR how important it was that the belt showed up in The WWF(E) instead JR gave his personal opinion on the belt. Conrad didn't ask what he personally thought of the belt being in the WWF. I remember when Vince was showing the belt on TV even before Flair made his debut. An that was definitely a big deal.
I partly disagree with JR on it not being a big deal because from the fans perspective, and especially in 1991, it was taboo, and the symbolism Ross mentioned was the equivalence of a football player wearing the opposition's shirt against them. The shirt is a prop, belts are a prop. The football itself and the trophy is a prop because they're all used to draw in fans and make money. When Scott Hall first showed up on Nitro for the first time, that was a big deal because fans believed he was still signed with Vince McMahon. "He shouldn't be there" Like the Big Gold Belt in 1991; that was WCW's World Title. It was the how did this happen? It created a buzz. Sure, it wasn't a big deal to the insider because in 1991, Jim Ross would have been downplaying it because he worked for WCW, the exact same way Vince McMahon didn't make a deal out of Madusa dropping her Women's Title in a trash can on Nitro. But if those happenings weren't a big deal, they wouldn't happen at all.
Sorry but I disagree with JR. Conrad you make a valid point about Vince screwing Bret to stop him from carrying the belt with him shows that the belt is viewed as more than a prop.
Your point remains valid. But anybody who believes Bret would do that is being led down the Madison Square Garden path. Vince did the screwjob that was planned 14 months prior by Vince McMahon himself to culminate his intended plans to use Bret to elevate his next top Superstar before sending him packing to WCW and the 1 year clause confirms that. Bret signed the 20 year deal that Vince never intended honouring in September 96. When did McMahon take the first Stunner? September 97. The day after Ground Zero when Vince used the 1 year clause in the contract to cancel the 20 year deal now Austin was the super over and ready for 1998. How far in avarice did Vince book Survivor Series 97 to be in Canada? Just after SummerSlam in September. It ain't no coincidence.
@@jesseandrews2303 excellent point... I will add that if he couldn't honor Bret's contract, why did he put the belt on Bret in the first place, and second, with Taker, Shamrock, Austin, HHH avaliable, why pick Shawn for SS??? It's clear to me that he couldn't/want to honor the contract and screw Bret on his way out of WWF
@@chasam1 I'm a Bret Hart fan I always were. But Bret was the sacrificial lamb through out 1997 and your bullet hit the target. Bret's 5th WWF Title win was just the final step needed to happen while Shawn Michaels & Taker main evened the next 2 PPVs. (Shawn with Bulldog at One Night Only also)
@@jesseandrews2303 im not sure but, Did taker ever got his rematch? If not,it should happened at SS 97? That way Bret will never had a reason to don't do the work
@@chasam1 A few days before Survivor Series 97, Bret & Shawn met up backstage and Bret offered an handshake and said to him he respects Shawn. Shawn refused the handshake and said the feeling is not mutual and walked away. By design, that aggrevated Bret to the point that Bret went to Vince and told him he refuses to drop the title to somebody who isn't respectful. Of course, Shawn did that by design. He was in on the screwjob, naturally. So Bret & Vince have a meeting to plan the finish and fittingly they come up with a double DQ or a "snmozz" All that was so Bret would be placed in The Sharpshooter, which was when Bret thought the Double DQ was to happen when The Hart Foundation was to run in followed by Hunter, Rude & Chyna. But in reality, it was so Vince McMahon could call for the bell as Brer was in the hold. All that about Bret not wanting to lose in his home country was just propaganda by the Screwjob inner circle. Triple H was more than happy to take the credit for coming up with the idea but come on... anybody who thinks about the situation with knowledge knows that's a load of BS. It was a strategic master plan utilised over a 14 month period. When Shawn had that leg injury after he vacated the title to avoid losing to Bret at WM13? Vince was never going to book that because from the get go his intentions was for the submission match double turn to occur for Austin to be elevated. Shawn dropped the title for Bret to hold it for a day to setup Bret"s heel turn. With his frustration. Shawn "losing his smile" was Shawn justifying in his own mind convincing himself that he wasn't happy about not doing business the right way. Basically, Shawn told Vince he doesn't feel comfortable about any of this and that's when Vince came up with the lost smile crap when he vacated on Thursday Raw Thursday on Feb 13 1997. On June 6 when tension between Bret & Shawn became real and they had their real fight backstage, that was when Shawn said "fuck it he deserves all he gets" (or words to that effect) The 97 King of the Ring was originally going to be Bret vs Shawn in a 10 minute match where if Bret can't defeat Shawn in 10 mins he will leave the WWF. Bret was told he was to win that match by submission using a knee lock maneuver. Bret talks about that sincerely where Shawn laughed about himself agreeing to do the job only because he knew all along the match wasn't going to happen and they were just stroking Bret's ego. Vince told Bret he will be winning the WWF Title at SummerSlam so June will be a good time to get his knee surgery done. Of course, it was Austin who faced Shawn instead. They became tag champions a month earlier for Shawn to vacate his half because they couldn't get along, to set up the match a month later at KOTR. Bret became WWF champion at SummerSlam because he needed the title to be screwed at Survivor Series. 1 month later was when Vince told Bret that he's not honouring the 20 year deal and opting out with the strategic 1 year clause. It wasn't personal towards Bret. It was business. Bret had to be screwed for the Mr McMahon character to be made to fued with Astin after WM14 which ended Nitro's 83 weeks on top.
I'm pretty sure Ric wrote in his book that part of the reason WCW couldn't do anything is that he was still the recognized NWA champion and he had received the belt while working for the NWA. WCW could strip him of their world title that they did not have the power to strip him of the NWA title
The guys that crap on the belts kill me. Championships have been as consistent in pro wrestling as babys vs heels. It's a much a "prop" as the wrestling ring itself.
I absolutely love how blunt JR is. He does not give a fuck what you think, he just says what he thinks. And for a guy who has made a career out of talking that isn't too surprising but I love how genuine he is. When he calls wrestling it does not feel like he is playing a character at all. He sounds like he has about the same attitude either way.
JR being full of shit here. He knows damn well the importance of the belts (prop or not) and he's playing it down to seem cool. The belt represents the brand and the lineage, it is also something fans rally behind. It's the equivalent of capturing your enemies flag and parading it around. I sense abit of bitterness on the part of JR.
I feel it was a "big deal" because through the late 80s into the early 90s Vince had done a LOT to separate the brand from the competition. After they went national, it was like the NWA and AWA never existed in their world. "King" Harley Race was rarely if ever referred to as a former NWA champion, it was as though those reigns never happened (despite him having a great title vs. title match against Bob Backlund in MSG). As a fan, seeing the Big Gold Belt on a WWF broadcast was a HUGE visual.
This was huge for both companies, good for Vince bad for Turner!!!! But honestly Vince was putting flair over during that time!!! Well played either way!!!!
From a fan perspective, it was a huge ass deal. Say the name "The Big Gold Belt" and most fans and insiders will know what you mean. It is synonymous with Flair and was synonymous with the NWA when the belt appeared on WWF TV, fans immediately knew Flair was on his way. Ask Barry Wyndham was it a big deal because he was next in line to have it. They had to cobble together a ugly mid level belt to present after Flair abruptly took the big gold belt.
Now we know why Vince ended up on top. The opinions of the competition was never what was important. Fan opinion is what makes this business go 'round, and the moment Bobby Heenan showcased the NWA world title on WWF tv was huge. Belts were not props to the fans. A belt with history mattered. WCW did come up with a belt to replace it, and I had less respect for their new belt.
I will say til I die, One of the biggest missed money makers was Nikita Koloff against Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania! Can you imagine if that would have headlined WM 4 ? Then instead of the Horrible tournament We could have just had Savage versus The Million Dollar Man for the belt in a longer, great match that the Two of them could do in their sleep.
I feel Conrad on this to you JR maybe it wasn’t a big deal but it is obvious that the higher ups it was a big deal to them if you acknowledge that it was a big deal to Vince McMahon then obviously it is a big deal since he owns the Wwe… Also check out the podcast called falling off track
I'm from Toronto, we got WWF and AWA TV. Didn't know shit about the NWA or JCP in 91. The Real World Champion stuff went over my head 😂 When we got TBS in 92 I understood 😅
As a non insider fan at the time, I thought it was the biggest example to date of WCW being second rate company. Although Flair leaving is what hurt more, if Lugar would of left with the belt it wouldn't of killed business the way it did when Flair left.
It was a big deal I remember when it happened.I'm suprised by JR'S response one of the biggest problems in last 20 years is too many belts or changing titles too often.If it wasn't a big deal too why screw Brett or flip out over Medusa?
Hello, you're on Livewire! Um Jim Ross, Jim Ross!! Yeah Um, I followed you through.... Ughhhh!!! WCW... Yeah! And I'd like to say that Goldust will beat Hunter for the belt... Ujum! And um... -CLICK- 🤦♂️ 🚫☎️ Bless his little heart, he got nervous!! Hahahaha I kinda thought he was gonna put on the Dr Huxtable sweater and hang up on our buddy Conrad. 😆 Thank Gawd bro, that Vic Ven-om bro, was-not on the pod-cast bro!
Yeah they didn´t gave him the caution they catched back than. They didn´t wanted to give Ric the Money back therefore he kept the title with him right fully so.
As a fan that's been watching since '79 I can honestly say kayfabe and shoot It was a HUGE moment, JR is full of major BS. Flair going over to the "enemy" undefeated with the Flag of NWA/WCW that has been considered THE #1 title since 1948 was MAJOR. The belt is a prop but it's THE major prop device that brings in cash for every wrestling org ever in existence and to top it off they had been touting Flair as the greatest NWA champion of all time during that era. If it didnt matter then why did Vince have to video distort it or risk lawsuits? Why did Vince feel so adamantly that he had to "screw" Bret? Why did Bischoff ask Madusa to throw the women's belt in the trash in and act of "war"? Its because in this industry the NWA, WWWF and AWA titles really matter and were more than just props. It was THE FLAG of these historic ships and were very prestigious in their own way kayfabe and shoot. Ross is full of BS as usual. This past week he said ALL OUT was the most "complete" card hes ever been a part of...?????.....THATS MAJOR MAJOR BS!!! Jim is a unrepentant company man once again towing the line and distorting history for the teams he plays on.
Jim, NWA is the king and they are on AEW and Impact and that is like the good old days when they worked with Mid South and Mid Southern, and Jim yes you do win the NWA World Title it is about making it through matches fighting through them,, for instances wrestling move could kill you .Jim it takes a rare man to be a great NWA World Champ a great one that is like Ric Flair, Harley Race, and Nick Aldis who defend the belt day after day, and think about it great amateur guys like Jack Briscoe, Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar have seen how hard it is to carry a world belt.
WWE dropped the ball big time when Flair came in. They should of created a special PPV, like they did with Tuesday in Texas, and had Hogan vs Flair headlining the event.
I find it a little weird... yeah today it wouldnt mean shit since kayfabe is dead and we all know its a work but back in the early 90s when Kayfabe was still around...
The physical belt was just a prop. But what it represented was extremely important. And Flair showing up on WWF television with the Big Gold Belt, after refusing to pass the torch, was a massive insult to WCW. It showed Flair's total lack of respect for the business.
@@gregorylevi1826 But Jim Herd was not WCW. Jim Herd was not the pro wrestling business. Flair could hate Herd, but at least drop the belt to say Barry Windham, and THEN tell Herd to go f*** himself. Your argument makes no sense.
@@danielburger1775 that's because you don't know that Herd refused to give Flair his deposit for the belt back. Flair told Herd give him his deposit back and he'll drop the belt to whoever he wants. Herd told Flair to go F*ck himself he wasn't paying the deposit back. An Burger you know the rest after that.
@@gregorylevi1826 Where did you hear that? Meltzer? The truth is Crockett had given Flair a ludicrous contract. Crockett was losing millions of dollars a year, and sold to Turner. Jim Herd was brought in to try and make a company that was losing million$ a year, into a profitable company. The biggest money pit was Flair, and his guaranteed contract. Flair's contract was gonna end, and Herd made it clear he was gonna pay Flair what he was actually worth, rather than what Flair wanted.
@@danielburger1775 everybody talked about Herd not giving Flair his deposit back. From JR to Cornette to David Crockett, this isn't new. Eric Bischoff touched on it a little bit, not as much as the other three did I mentioned.
Really JR that isn´t true since it wasn´t just a cheap copy made it was the real deal that´s why back than they catched a fee from the champs and WCW refused paying Ric the caution Money back for it that´s why he left with it and if it would have been that easy to get another belt it wouldn´t have been necessarily to asked Money from the Champs for the belts so don´t put lame stories out as the titles are just crap props. They may be nowadays more likely props to use since Vince killed the importance of Wrestling focusing on the Entertainment didn´t care much for the Biz in that way like they did back than at least in WCW where they at least cared more before.
Revisionist history aside, when Bobby The Brain Heenan held up The Big Gold Championship on WWF television while touting the Real World Champion was coming....It was the eptiome of a BIG DEAL!
I agree! That was a very, very big deal.
I was a "smart" fan, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing!!!!!!!!! Love U JR, but it mattered!
Absolutely a big deal. Any Flair fan knew it was the best thing going that day. Woooo.
But did it move fans from one brand to another? I think JR is meaning that it didn't matter in terms of losing or bringing fans. He's inconsistent by not seeing the difference between Bret leaving with the belt. People who preferred the WCW product were not going to be swayed by Flair going to Vince's cartoon. So, in kayfabe it was a big deal but outwith, not so much...
@@leetant935 First Bret is no Flair. Flair was THE World's Champion who WCW fans were still clearing clamoring for. Of course, those still chanting Flair's name turned in to see his intial WWF run . Most especially hoping for the "dream match" with Hogan that only saw house shows. Unfortunately Hogan and Flair had some of the worst chemistry then & for the Northeast wasnt as big of a draw as the company anticipated.
Yet Vince got worried when he thought Bret was going to bring the title on WCW TV.
That isn’t what he was worried about
@@RSW2508 Why else would he screw Bret over?
But also, that was after Medusa dropped the WWF Women's title in the garbage on Nitro.
You can't have stuff like that happen.
And WWF is still in business
While Ric leaving was a huge deal, taking the company’s world title belt on the rival’s TV can’t be understated. JR is just letting his overall lack of caring about belts cloud his judgement here. It was an earthshaking moment, never happened before that I can recall.
He doesnt care becuase it was his buddy ric flair who did it
Yea I don't understand Jim's logic here. If Ric loses to Hogan in WWE, what does that say about the WCW champion?
It was earth-shattering. I remember seeing it as a kid and every kid I knew that watched wrestling thought it was just crazy to see the top belt from another company get paraded around on WWF television - first by Bobby Heenan prior to Flair's debut and then after the fact by Flair for several weeks. WCW clearly knew it mattered because they filed suit to stop it. Further, Vince and company KNEW IT MATTERED because they had Flair work it into his gimmick, talking in promos about Jack Tunney video distorting the belt.
@@BlackMikeP I think they blurred out Flair holding the WCW belt at some point on WWE TV and Flair was actually holding up a modified WWF tag team belt and not using the WCW belt for tapings.
the nwa wasnt a company back then
Conrad is awesome for asking about the WWF Belt turning up on Nitro
How’s your foot? Who killed Joey Peeps again?
I believe it was Cornette who recently said Vince didn't have to worry about Bret showing up the next night on Nitro with the belt. He had to worry about Bischoff announcing on Nitro that they signed the WWF champion. Bret wasn't scheduled to appear on WCW tv for a few weeks, I think
Awesome ? Conrad looked like 12-year old fanboy asking that question and JR made him look worse with his answer. "Awesome" HAHAHAHAH !
Jim gets really upset when people ask him certain questions 🙄
Well, most people don't like EVERY question people ask
@@demariusoliver9434 that's true but he answered the question incorrectly. It may not have been a big deal to himself, but the belt or champ being taken by another promotion was a big deal to the business and a massive slap in the face.
@@LiL-Shrek2onDVD nah, you didn't like the way he answered the question.. Conrad asked him questions to get his thoughts on a subject then how can he be wrong or answer incorrectly? It's his opinion. I get what you're saying, but it's his opinion whether we like it or not.
@@demariusoliver9434 nope, he asked him "was it a big deal?" Not "was it a big deal to you?" Obviously to JR it wasn't a big deal but in general, to the greater pro wrestling community, it sure as hell is a big deal. Why do you think Jeff Jarrett was able to hold Vince to ransom for 300 grand at No Mercy 99? Why do you think the Montreal screwjob went down the way it did? He didn't answer Conrad's question, he answered something completely different. Why did triple H get punished for the curtain call? Why did they keep kayfabe as seriously as they did?
@@LiL-Shrek2onDVD amen, tell that to Bret
A belt nerd like Conrad with his 975 replica belts behind him got deeply offended when Jim called belts props. I loved it.
Why
JR went off “i don’t give a sh*t if you swallow it or not”
@@dntwasteit8547 Lmfaoo
@@dntwasteit8547 they sounded like a married couple in the bedroom, hey?
The wcw belt showing up on wwf TV was a big deal. I dont know what JR is talking about.
Its a big deal to fans and that's all that matters
I'm surprised Jim has this take. the belt is a prop but in this case wasn't a WWF prop. it was the rivals prop. a different name brands prop. but I will say it made great TV
It was a big deal. Just because it wasn't to JR doesn't mean it wasn't to the business. It definitely was. Conrad made a good point about the Montreal screwjob and that in itself proves it was a massive deal.
@Fugp Basis you do realise the belt is representative of the championship?
@Fugp Basis wait so it wasn't a big deal to those people who didn't know that the WCW even existed? What about those WWF fans that did know of WCW? What about to WCW fans at the time? I get it wasn't a big deal to JR or to yourself, but he nor you get to decide and speak for the business or the community in general. It was a big deal. I get the physical belt is a prop but the act in itself is a major slap in the face under any circumstances.
The big gold belt really was just a prop.flair had it made for himself for bling.any belt is so devalued now.the wwe gives everyone that wins anything a belt .won a spelling bee here's a replica belt.cornhole championship here's a belt.hell they don't care enough to but effort in to make the two world championship belts they have now different (that they have two world championships says enough.) They're identical except one is blue the other red.
@@toddedwards5373 I agree the belts today, along with just about everything to do with the wwe, are stupid.
Didn't Alundra Blaze get blackballed for trashing the belt on WCW?=)
Love how he says that while there's literally countless of belts on the wall behind Conrad 🤣🤣
The Big Gold Belt had a lineage and history that fans in droves connected with, so it was more than a Prop
AWA
I agree
JR doesn’t care if you “swallow” CLASSIC
It was a big deal to me in the sense that it introduced me to another world of the sport outside of the wwf.
JR: look at all the years I’ve been in the business. How many belts do you think I would have?
😆😆
None. Belts don’t exist for announcers
Not his point. He meant that you don't need a belt to get over in the business of wrestling and sell tickets and make a paycheck. He's saying the whole game is about making money and if you are making money for yourself and your company, THAT'S success in pro wrestling, whether you ever hold a title or not. Applies not just to wrestlers but to every on screen talent from ring announcers to commentary to managers.
@@adamlane6453it does not work like that in kayfabr land
When Jim Ross said, I don’t give a shit whether you find it hard to swallow or not, I laughed my ass off! LMAO!
Same! Great podcast fodder
and Conrad's feeling looked hurt because but it's father in laws belt 😂
Didn’t like that.
I love how few shits he's grown to give in his old age. He DGAF. He's got nothing to prove, he's established his legacy, he put up with too many people's BS for too many years and he knows he never has to do that again for the rest of his life.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
JR being a football guy..would probably be more upset if big 12 title memorabilia was called nothing.
Well have you seen Oklahoma play, it does suck lol
Damn Jim’s feisty in this clip 😂
J.R. just SHAT all over Conrad with that "it was a prop, have another one made next week" line XD....... hey.. one mans "prop" is another mans multi thousand, possibly million, dollar passion..
I’m sure if they brought up Warrior, then suddenly JR would be talking about how Warrior “disrespected” the belt.
One man's good time, is another man's Mass Transit Incident lol
I remember being 13 years old at the time and Flair taking the belt and it being blocked out on TV was HUUUUUUUGE!!!!!!!! Totally added to Flair’s aura.
If it wasn't that big of a deal, Herd wouldn't have sued Vince to stop showing the belt on WWF tv.
@Brian Krawczyc Yeah I agree with you on that. But I'm thinking Conrad wishes he could do that question over again and ask it differently. It was obviously a big deal to most in the business that were working closely to and with Vince. But apparently it wasn't a big deal to J.R. personally. I think J.R. answered the question on how he felt personally about it and unfortunately I think Conrad may wish he could have rephrased the question asking Good ole J.R. the question in a way to convey how others felt about the belt showing up on tv in another company.
Yeah it was a big deal to Herd, or he wouldn't have sued to get the belt back.
the nwa sent s ceise and desict letter to vince! and then they also couldnt use the vegas big gold belt cause it looked to similier to the big gold belt!! fun fact no one owns the design to the big gold belt
and flair counter sued and it was the nwa that had to sue to get the belt back@@gregorylevi1826
Come on JR. THE symbol for WCW showed up on WWF with the face of WCW. He has to know the significance of that combination
The worse belt was the spinning Cena belt
Cap
@@erronking7783 Righttt… Big Cap
@@jkeilyndesmond9560 the cap was plentiful
HATED IT
From a fan's perspective, it was huge in both cases. When Flair came over with that belt, it was mind blowing in the early 90s. I really thought the plan was to have Flair chase Hogan down from the perspective of being an outsider who wasn't one of the safe WWF opponents, eventually win the WWF title, and trade it a few times. Didn't go down that way, sadly.
Being older and more cynical, part of me thinks maybe that was never the plan. Chance to put a rival champion into the midcard, which is exactly what happened to Flair at Wrestlemania even though the title was on the line.
When Medusa tossed the WWF title, it said, live on the air, "the best thing WWF had to offer me was junk compared to WCW". Huge.
I can accept the fact that belts are just “props” in the grand scheme of writing storylines & angles in pro wrestling… but belts are EXTREMELY important. Sure, you can have huge matches/moments without belts, but having belts be held in high regard, and meaning everything to the wrestlers, makes the entire show mean more. If everyone is getting on podcasts & interviews and saying that belts don’t mean anything, then why should fans care? It’s generally understood that it’s all pre-planned, but one thing that fans can still buy into is that a guy wins the big match for the World title and has been promoted to “the guy” by the booker of the show. It’s what made the Daniel Bryan/Authority angle so compelling. Fans knew Bryan had the skills and should be the top guy, and the Authority represented WWE ignoring the fans and trying to hold a guy down from winning the World title and getting the top spot.
JR is way off here. Seeing that belt on WWF TV blew my mind back then.
If JR was given a golden mic to use as a token of appreciation then someone else started using it he would cry like a baby. He reminds me of the friend you can't joke around with cause they are always butthurt.
Wow. JR calling belts a prop kinda makes me lose some respect for his love of the game.
Wow yeah this clip sucks
The belt is a prop. Sports entertainment is mostly fake.
@@paulrodney951 While you are not wrong, your not right either, The Big Gold Belt had a lineage and history that fans in droves connected with, so it was more than a Prop
@@paulrodney951 Guess what?
The belts in UFC & Boxing are props because without them; there would be no reason for fans to watch.
There would be no ranking system that is designed to elevate fighters and boxers.
That pro wrestling is pretty determined is isn't what defines the belts as props because Kurt Angle's Gold Medals like every medal in every Olympic event are props. Without them; there would be no Olympics.
Props are used to draw in fans and make money.
@@darshin95
I don't see Wrestling Championship belts as a props anymore more or less than I see anything used anywhere else as props.
And you're exactly right.
The lineage makes it more than a prop because that becomes history which in turn become memories.
End of the day, the belt doesn't make somebody champion because they're already the champion before they hold the belt.
The belt simply symbolises they're the champion of that Title and that's the same in MMA, In Boxing and the different coloured belts earned in Karate.
If one of any of the above is a prop, every one of the above is a prop.
I just wouldn't tell a karate fighter that their belt is a prop....
The ignorence on J.R part on how long and hard it is to make another Big Gold lol
It’s not about the physical belt. It’s about a champion going to the opposition without losing the belt. In some minds it’s makes that fed look second rate and disrupts the title lineage.
What’s a bigger symbol of dominance than your champ is on our show. It’s not the most important thing but it’s a big symbol.
Yep...but let me take it a step further...not only is the champ of the competition on our show, but he paraded the belt too. Made one hell of a statement.
Ok Ross, why don’t you ask the men who bleed for that “ prop” what it means to them?
Why don’t you ask Ric! Steve! Arn! Tully! Jericho! Cody and anyone who had actually climbed into the ring and worked their butts off to carry around that “ prop” and see what kind of responses you receive? Yes we all know it is a kayfab title! But it symbolizes to the world and the company that at this time we believe you are what we need in this top spot. Now you who never bleed or fought for your spot among the boys, you can call it a prop! But when I wrestled even in the small group I worked with and for I was homered when on 8 different occasions they put the strap on me. When there were many others they could have went to. So on till you fight for a living ( ksyfab ir not) do not talk what you do not know.
How many of you know Conrad is Ric Flair's son-in-law? He's married to Flair's older daughter.
Ye knew that .I'm surprised Conrad never asked arn on the comment flair made .about those 2.. fair and Anderson not talking anymore
I haven't read anyone else's comment on this yet. I'm two minutes into this clip, and I'm completely floored by Ross' response. I couldn't disagree more with what he's saying. I'm not sure if perhaps he just doesn't understand the question from Conrad or if he really is this delusional. Having Flair show up on WWF TV in 1991 with the NWA/WCW World Title was mind-blowing at the time as a fan. It had nothing to do with being a "belt collector". The WWF hadn't recognized any other organization or any other form of wrestling outside of it's own except for just a handful of passing, vague references since 1984 (Harley Race as a "former champion", a couple of guys holding "regional" championships, etc.). This was an epic event, something that went beyond an angle. This was ground-breaking, earth-shattering stuff, and it was way more important than a response about the belt being a prop.
Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed!
Those belts was not coveted like a Superbowl Ring. In all fairness they was props just as JR said,but old school wrestling fans didnt think of them like props,we thought of them differently.
Love JR but disagree with him on this one. Although the titles were props, they meant something to most real wrestling fans so seeing another title on the competitions screen said alot... If that's not a big deal which tells a story then wrestling in itself means nothing. Jus sayin
Any one know what happened to the WM 17 belt that Austin won? That was my favourite of all time and I would love to know where it is at today? Does Conrad own it?
I thought he asked JR how important it was that the belt showed up in The WWF(E) instead JR gave his personal opinion on the belt. Conrad didn't ask what he personally thought of the belt being in the WWF. I remember when Vince was showing the belt on TV even before Flair made his debut. An that was definitely a big deal.
It was to "mock" WCW bc Flair jumped ship. McMahon rubbing it in.
I partly disagree with JR on it not being a big deal because from the fans perspective,
and especially in 1991, it was taboo,
and the symbolism Ross mentioned was the equivalence of a football player wearing the opposition's shirt against them.
The shirt is a prop, belts are a prop.
The football itself and the trophy is a prop because they're all used to draw in fans and make money.
When Scott Hall first showed up on Nitro for the first time, that was a big deal because fans believed he was still signed with Vince McMahon.
"He shouldn't be there"
Like the Big Gold Belt in 1991; that was WCW's World Title.
It was the how did this happen?
It created a buzz.
Sure, it wasn't a big deal to the insider because in 1991, Jim Ross would have been downplaying it because he worked for WCW, the exact same way Vince McMahon didn't make a deal out of Madusa dropping her Women's Title in a trash can on Nitro.
But if those happenings weren't a big deal, they wouldn't happen at all.
Sorry but I disagree with JR. Conrad you make a valid point about Vince screwing Bret to stop him from carrying the belt with him shows that the belt is viewed as more than a prop.
Your point remains valid.
But anybody who believes Bret would do that is being led down the Madison Square Garden path.
Vince did the screwjob that was planned 14 months prior by Vince McMahon himself to culminate his intended plans to use Bret to elevate his next top Superstar before sending him packing to WCW and the 1 year clause confirms that.
Bret signed the 20 year deal that Vince never intended honouring in September 96.
When did McMahon take the first Stunner?
September 97.
The day after Ground Zero when Vince used the 1 year clause in the contract to cancel the 20 year deal now Austin was the super over and ready for 1998.
How far in avarice did Vince book Survivor Series 97 to be in Canada?
Just after SummerSlam in September.
It ain't no coincidence.
@@jesseandrews2303 excellent point... I will add that if he couldn't honor Bret's contract, why did he put the belt on Bret in the first place, and second, with Taker, Shamrock, Austin, HHH avaliable, why pick Shawn for SS??? It's clear to me that he couldn't/want to honor the contract and screw Bret on his way out of WWF
@@chasam1 I'm a Bret Hart fan I always were.
But Bret was the sacrificial lamb through out 1997 and your bullet hit the target.
Bret's 5th WWF Title win was just the final step needed to happen while Shawn Michaels & Taker main evened the next 2 PPVs.
(Shawn with Bulldog at One Night Only also)
@@jesseandrews2303 im not sure but, Did taker ever got his rematch? If not,it should happened at SS 97? That way Bret will never had a reason to don't do the work
@@chasam1
A few days before Survivor Series 97,
Bret & Shawn met up backstage and Bret offered an handshake and said to him he respects Shawn.
Shawn refused the handshake and said the feeling is not mutual and walked away.
By design, that aggrevated Bret to the point that Bret went to Vince and told him he refuses to drop the title to somebody who isn't respectful.
Of course, Shawn did that by design.
He was in on the screwjob, naturally.
So Bret & Vince have a meeting to plan the finish and fittingly they come up with a double DQ or a "snmozz"
All that was so Bret would be placed in The Sharpshooter, which was when Bret thought the Double DQ was to happen when The Hart Foundation was to run in followed by Hunter, Rude & Chyna.
But in reality, it was so Vince McMahon could call for the bell as Brer was in the hold.
All that about Bret not wanting to lose in his home country was just propaganda by the Screwjob inner circle.
Triple H was more than happy to take the credit for coming up with the idea but come on... anybody who thinks about the situation with knowledge knows that's a load of BS.
It was a strategic master plan utilised over a 14 month period.
When Shawn had that leg injury after he vacated the title to avoid losing to Bret at WM13?
Vince was never going to book that because from the get go his intentions was for the submission match double turn to occur for Austin to be elevated.
Shawn dropped the title for Bret to hold it for a day to setup Bret"s heel turn. With his frustration.
Shawn "losing his smile" was Shawn justifying in his own mind convincing himself that he wasn't happy about not doing business the right way.
Basically, Shawn told Vince he doesn't feel comfortable about any of this and that's when Vince came up with the lost smile crap when he vacated on Thursday Raw Thursday on Feb 13 1997.
On June 6 when tension between Bret & Shawn became real and they had their real fight backstage, that was when Shawn said "fuck it he deserves all he gets" (or words to that effect)
The 97 King of the Ring was originally going to be Bret vs Shawn in a 10 minute match where if Bret can't defeat Shawn in 10 mins he will leave the WWF.
Bret was told he was to win that match by submission using a knee lock maneuver.
Bret talks about that sincerely where Shawn laughed about himself agreeing to do the job only because he knew all along the match wasn't going to happen and they were just stroking Bret's ego.
Vince told Bret he will be winning the WWF Title at SummerSlam so June will be a good time to get his knee surgery done.
Of course, it was Austin who faced Shawn instead.
They became tag champions a month earlier for Shawn to vacate his half because they couldn't get along, to set up the match a month later at KOTR.
Bret became WWF champion at SummerSlam because he needed the title to be screwed at Survivor Series.
1 month later was when Vince told Bret that he's not honouring the 20 year deal and opting out with the strategic 1 year clause.
It wasn't personal towards Bret.
It was business.
Bret had to be screwed for the Mr McMahon character to be made to fued with Astin after WM14 which ended Nitro's 83 weeks on top.
I'm pretty sure Ric wrote in his book that part of the reason WCW couldn't do anything is that he was still the recognized NWA champion and he had received the belt while working for the NWA. WCW could strip him of their world title that they did not have the power to strip him of the NWA title
The guys that crap on the belts kill me.
Championships have been as consistent in pro wrestling as babys vs heels. It's a much a "prop" as the wrestling ring itself.
I absolutely love how blunt JR is. He does not give a fuck what you think, he just says what he thinks. And for a guy who has made a career out of talking that isn't too surprising but I love how genuine he is. When he calls wrestling it does not feel like he is playing a character at all. He sounds like he has about the same attitude either way.
Jim, you are right Ric Flair was a money man.
JR being full of shit here. He knows damn well the importance of the belts (prop or not) and he's playing it down to seem cool.
The belt represents the brand and the lineage, it is also something fans rally behind. It's the equivalent of capturing your enemies flag and parading it around.
I sense abit of bitterness on the part of JR.
Geez, JR needs a nap
Isn't this why the screwjob happened to Brett? Now suddenly JR doesn't care about a belt going to another territory. Right.
Says the Dude who was shitting his pants when Jeff Jarrett was about to leave with the I.C. Title
Maybe it wasn't a big deal to JR, but it was a big deal in the wrestling business.
As a fan Flair showing up with that belt on wwf tv was a big deal and shocking.
So did Vince lose his shit with Madusa?
Vince closed the woman’s championship for 3 years after Medusa. But it wasn’t like he was pushing it to success at the time
I feel it was a "big deal" because through the late 80s into the early 90s Vince had done a LOT to separate the brand from the competition. After they went national, it was like the NWA and AWA never existed in their world. "King" Harley Race was rarely if ever referred to as a former NWA champion, it was as though those reigns never happened (despite him having a great title vs. title match against Bob Backlund in MSG). As a fan, seeing the Big Gold Belt on a WWF broadcast was a HUGE visual.
vince was still working with other promtions in the 80s and 90s till he bought out the territorys
This was huge for both companies, good for Vince bad for Turner!!!! But honestly Vince was putting flair over during that time!!! Well played either way!!!!
A legend talking the legend of a legend is legendary content! Thank you 🙂
From a fan perspective, it was a huge ass deal. Say the name "The Big Gold Belt" and most fans and insiders will know what you mean. It is synonymous with Flair and was synonymous with the NWA when the belt appeared on WWF TV, fans immediately knew Flair was on his way. Ask Barry Wyndham was it a big deal because he was next in line to have it. They had to cobble together a ugly mid level belt to present after Flair abruptly took the big gold belt.
When dude mentioned the Montreal screw job I knew the look from JR was coming 😂😂😂
Now we know why Vince ended up on top.
The opinions of the competition was never what was important.
Fan opinion is what makes this business go 'round, and the moment Bobby Heenan showcased the NWA world title on WWF tv was huge.
Belts were not props to the fans. A belt with history mattered. WCW did come up with a belt to replace it, and I had less respect for their new belt.
@Fugp Basis Perhaps not today, but that was over 30 years ago, and they gave a fuck. That's why WWF was winging, and ultimately won.
JR is an alcoholic?
Someone's in a bad mood.
Lol JR definitely took Conrad to school on true value of prowrestling props are props Mr Ric Flair's son n law
Looking back, I wonder if WCW could've saved face by starting a storyline that Flair essentially "stole" their title.
I will say til I die, One of the biggest missed money makers was Nikita Koloff against Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania! Can you imagine if that would have headlined WM 4 ? Then instead of the Horrible tournament We could have just had Savage versus The Million Dollar Man for the belt in a longer, great match that the Two of them could do in their sleep.
The big gold belt was and is more than a prop. It’s the holy grail of wrestling
come on JR. If Kenny Omega showed up on wwe and threw the AeW title in the trash, itd be a big deal (yes I know flair didnt do that)
I feel Conrad on this to you JR maybe it wasn’t a big deal but it is obvious that the higher ups it was a big deal to them if you acknowledge that it was a big deal to Vince McMahon then obviously it is a big deal since he owns the Wwe… Also check out the podcast called falling off track
I'm from Toronto, we got WWF and AWA TV. Didn't know shit about the NWA or JCP in 91. The Real World Champion stuff went over my head 😂
When we got TBS in 92 I understood 😅
As a non insider fan at the time, I thought it was the biggest example to date of WCW being second rate company. Although Flair leaving is what hurt more, if Lugar would of left with the belt it wouldn't of killed business the way it did when Flair left.
It was a big deal I remember when it happened.I'm suprised by JR'S response one of the biggest problems in last 20 years is too many belts or changing titles too often.If it wasn't a big deal too why screw Brett or flip out over Medusa?
Hello, you're on Livewire!
Um Jim Ross, Jim Ross!!
Yeah
Um, I followed you through....
Ughhhh!!!
WCW...
Yeah!
And I'd like to say that Goldust will beat Hunter for the belt...
Ujum!
And um...
-CLICK-
🤦♂️ 🚫☎️
Bless his little heart, he got nervous!!
Hahahaha I kinda thought he was gonna put on the Dr Huxtable sweater and hang up on our buddy Conrad. 😆 Thank Gawd bro, that Vic Ven-om bro, was-not on the pod-cast bro!
Conrad thinking about them Irish fries
Yeah they didn´t gave him the caution they catched back than. They didn´t wanted to give Ric the Money back therefore he kept the title with him right fully so.
Red @$$ JR is the best 🤣😂😂
Ric is by far the best ever.
J.R. is wrong. It is a big deal. The belt symbolizes the best wrestler in the company. It’s not just a “prop.”
As a fan that's been watching since '79 I can honestly say kayfabe and shoot It was a HUGE moment, JR is full of major BS. Flair going over to the "enemy" undefeated with the Flag of NWA/WCW that has been considered THE #1 title since 1948 was MAJOR. The belt is a prop but it's THE major prop device that brings in cash for every wrestling org ever in existence and to top it off they had been touting Flair as the greatest NWA champion of all time during that era. If it didnt matter then why did Vince have to video distort it or risk lawsuits? Why did Vince feel so adamantly that he had to "screw" Bret? Why did Bischoff ask Madusa to throw the women's belt in the trash in and act of "war"? Its because in this industry the NWA, WWWF and AWA titles really matter and were more than just props. It was THE FLAG of these historic ships and were very prestigious in their own way kayfabe and shoot.
Ross is full of BS as usual. This past week he said ALL OUT was the most "complete" card hes ever been a part of...?????.....THATS MAJOR MAJOR BS!!! Jim is a unrepentant company man once again towing the line and distorting history for the teams he plays on.
It was ahuge deal.
Jim, NWA is the king and they are on AEW and Impact and that is like the good old days when they worked with Mid South and Mid Southern, and Jim yes you do win the NWA World Title it is about making it through matches fighting through them,, for instances wrestling move could kill you
.Jim it takes a rare man to be a great NWA World Champ a great one that is like Ric Flair, Harley Race, and Nick Aldis who defend the belt day after day, and think about it great amateur guys like Jack Briscoe, Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar have seen how hard it is to carry a world belt.
WWE dropped the ball big time when Flair came in. They should of created a special PPV, like they did with Tuesday in Texas, and had Hogan vs Flair headlining the event.
Not really
This was awkward
The replacement belt for Luger versus Windham was a piece of crap.
LOL and people cry when Vince Russo calls belts props but JR gets a pass.
If the belt is no big deal, why did the holder have to put a few grand down on it as a deposit
But what did Cowboy think?
Flair bringing the wcw belt to wwf meant nothing to me as a 8 year old kid.
It was a big deal to LUGER.
I find it a little weird...
yeah today it wouldnt mean shit since kayfabe is dead and we all know its a work
but back in the early 90s when Kayfabe was still around...
The physical belt was just a prop. But what it represented was extremely important.
And Flair showing up on WWF television with the Big Gold Belt, after refusing to pass the torch, was a massive insult to WCW. It showed Flair's total lack of respect for the business.
No it shows he wasn't gonna tolerate Jim Herd crapping on him.
@@gregorylevi1826 But Jim Herd was not WCW. Jim Herd was not the pro wrestling business. Flair could hate Herd, but at least drop the belt to say Barry Windham, and THEN tell Herd to go f*** himself.
Your argument makes no sense.
@@danielburger1775 that's because you don't know that Herd refused to give Flair his deposit for the belt back. Flair told Herd give him his deposit back and he'll drop the belt to whoever he wants. Herd told Flair to go F*ck himself he wasn't paying the deposit back. An Burger you know the rest after that.
@@gregorylevi1826 Where did you hear that? Meltzer?
The truth is Crockett had given Flair a ludicrous contract. Crockett was losing millions of dollars a year, and sold to Turner.
Jim Herd was brought in to try and make a company that was losing million$ a year, into a profitable company.
The biggest money pit was Flair, and his guaranteed contract. Flair's contract was gonna end, and Herd made it clear he was gonna pay Flair what he was actually worth, rather than what Flair wanted.
@@danielburger1775 everybody talked about Herd not giving Flair his deposit back. From JR to Cornette to David Crockett, this isn't new. Eric Bischoff touched on it a little bit, not as much as the other three did I mentioned.
Seems me like he saying it was a big deal but it wasn't to him and he doesn't understand why it was to others.
It’s not just a prop 🙄🙄🙄
This got homoerotic fast
It’s a BIG ISSUE!!
It's Jim Herd's fault.
If it was enough to sue over you can"t claim that"s not a big deal this headline is nonsense.
It was the nwa belt
Speak for yourself, JR.
Jr grouchy old man. Lol
Ok Jim….it wasn’t a big deal…alright.
Really JR that isn´t true since it wasn´t just a cheap copy made it was the real deal that´s why back than they catched a fee from the champs and WCW refused paying Ric the caution Money back for it that´s why he left with it and if it would have been that easy to get another belt it wouldn´t have been necessarily to asked Money from the Champs for the belts so don´t put lame stories out as the titles are just crap props.
They may be nowadays more likely props to use since Vince killed the importance of Wrestling focusing on the Entertainment didn´t care much for the Biz in that way like they did back than at least in WCW where they at least cared more before.
LOL
I disagree wit Jim Ross here
Damn ! Conrad the mark couldn't stand that Jim Ross isn't a "belt guy". LMAO !!