For real. It's always a delight watching him just absolutely nail the entire trajectory of a card's history like that without even playing the game. That's how you truly know he's a game master.
I'm even more impressed he understood Gamma that well. Especially the "drawing Driver" part. A MTG player could easily think that drawing a decently statted vanilla is fine.
I'm a bit sad that we won't have LSV for a while, but I wish him the best with the twins! Also, oh boy, LSV reads the comments! How can we manipulate him into believing something silly? :P
LSV would be an amazing YGO player, that much is obvious. It was also enormously enjoyable to have him as a guest here - hope he will eventually try the game out at some point. Huge thanks to Cimo and LSV for making some of my evenings so much more enjoyable! And congrats to him on the twins!
another difference between mourner and veiler that you didn't touch, is the difference between veiler's "send to gy" and mourner "discard". its quite interesting to remind how this is a lawyer's card game
Yeah Mourner can be used under Shifter, which is relevant, and it would be way more relevant when Maliss and the other deck which i forgot the name become available here.
LSV understands card game mechanics on a level that is quite rare to see and this episode shows that what he can say about card games can extend to other games. Ash Blossom being one of the most popular cards ever but being at 3 isn't dissimilar to competitive Pokemon and Landorus-Therian, it gives stability to the game which is different from making it boring
Lando-T is, like, the perfect analog for ash blossom, down to the fact that if Lando-T gets power crept it's its game proverbial canary in the coal mine. Ash being sub-optimal against snake-eyes exhibited the same concept
LSVs analysis on Gorz was incredible the man read the entire play pattern both of and around the card instantly and he did it again for Swift Scarecrow, with the annoying stall decks that play no monsters. the man is so good at this also congratulations to him!
@@cyanideinfusion6760 That discussion was about whether you could choose not to droll after the first search and drop it later in the turn to negate the second search, which you can't do.
This...isnt true. Like you can just look at tournament results, it's still only sees inconsistent play. Every few formats it pops up, but it's absolutely not good vs everything. Hell, even in formats where people THINK it's crazy it often turns out to be not that good. People were suggesting this vs snake eye when it first came out and very quickly learned that was the wrong choice. And even against decks that it's strong against (Infernoble from a few formats ago,) those decks often find ways to play around it and end on a weaker but still reasonable board, just like any other hand trap. If you disagree with me, pull up YGOProDeck and look at tournament results. Droll and Lock Bird might be one of the biggest cards that people misunderstand constantly.
Definitely, though I do think that a lot of recent (especially post pote) decks are pretty at playing around it or at least can beat it often enough that it isn't a consistently powerful as ash, imperm and the bad imperms that are still good enough
Knowing the rules about the Damage Step would really have helped LSV in evaluating Honest. If spell speed two removal can kill the monster targeted by Honest, the card becomes much worse.
Exactly, kind of big context of Damage Step and activation timing is needed to evaluate the card. In magic, combat works such that you'd be able to Mirror Force in response to your opponent activating Honest, so its natural to think the card would be much worse.
@@syrelianAnd quick effects that negate the activation of said effects (one example might be solemn strike or judgement, although those are counter traps rather than quick effects)
Love that LSV connected effects back to Magic in this video. Something that I thought was a little lacking in the past and I’m so glad he did. Can’t wait to have him back once his life settles down.
I was an avid listener of Limited Resources for years (the only reason I don't listen as much as I used to is because I don't play much Magic these days) so I've known LSV is a fantastic presence on content in general, as well as an excellent evaluator of cards. It's been really cool seeing him here, and seeing him go above and beyond the usual expectations for this sort of cross game content. Reading the comments when it's not his own channel, being genuinely interested in what the game actually is instead of just dismissing it as "game is decided on turn one, game bad" which is what most MTG players assume about YGO, and on top of that his evaluations are insanely good considering he's never played the game. Congrats on the new additions to your family, LSV!
0 dislikes on the video as I write this comment and I think it really harkens to how important these videos are just for yu-gi-oh in general. Yugioh notoriously struggles to integrate new players and that is exactly what videos like this do, not just for LSV, but the whole community. Great content and great personalities on these videos, so much love!
As a magic player I had a completely wrong view of the game before these videos. The "games last 2-3 turns" saying really doesnt do the justice since theres so many things going on. I thought it was silly at first that just one card can start a string of game actions that leave you with a giant board, but theres so many ways to interact and the side deck gives so many decision points Found a ton of respect for the game now and love these videos
Just as some added context for the different handtraps, going over some of the missed information as well as why handtraps are important pros/cons: Honest was extremely powerful also due to the fact that you could use multiple of them on the same attack effectively being extra burn cards and randomly having enough damage to kill the opponent. The bounce effect was also extremely good in simplified gamestates, since going back to the hand protected it from battle and any light monster you drew could never lose a battle since the honest was back in hand. If you had 2 honests, you could also summon 1, attack their biggest thing, drop the second honest, then bounce back the one on board. Effect veiler as well as D.D. Crow also had certain archetype synergies that boosted their powerlevels for specific formats. Blue-eyes decks could search for level 1 light tuners (effect veiler) and Flowandereeze could search for lvl 1 winged-beast (D.D Crow, Flowandereeze is also a deck the revolves around banishing cards) Swift Scarecrow is exactly like fog, same with its brother Battle Fader, used in stall decks like Final Countdown (which ran self destruct button as a safety net) Droll & Lock Bird is a card that feels horrible to play against, there are many decks that simply instantly fold to the card being played. One of the issues with yugioh, is that since 99% of decks can do 1 million things on their first turn, if you get caught with a hand that loses to droll & lock bird, there is simply nothing you can do. There are many non-games that happen with droll in play for both players. Since every card is so extremely valuable (many 1 card combos that can generate you to a +10 board state), droll completely stopping your opponent vs droll not doing anything either auto win you the game (by turn skip) or lose you the game (discard a card for nothing and opponent still made their board). It isnt often that droll hits that goldilocks point in many metas of slowing down enough but not shutting down. The Ghost sister cards are generally all playable depending on the format (except ash blossom which is basically always a 3 of, bar some specific decks) Cherry during BA format, ghost ogre during pendulum formats (and current format), ghost belle is generally ok but not great, mourner is as stated, more effect veilers/imperns, unless your in the asian regions where the card works differently and is much better, and spooky dogwood is a time-cuck card. It is very rarely ever played to survive extra turns Nibiru the primal being IMO is only really interesting when decks need to make the choice of, do i play into it or do i slow down. The issue is the best decks almost always have a way to either negate nibiru's effect or continue playing even if they get nibiru'ed. Its extremely annoying dropping nibiru on a fully commited opponent and then they combo through that effect and still end with their board. Dimension shifter is the bane of every yugioh players existence. It is a turn skip card. 90% of decks RELY on their grave to combo and make plays/have follow up. The card is so powerful that some decks will hurt themselves just so that they can play the card (tenpai dragon) since it is such a destructive force to almost every deck. Hand traps are a cool idea in concept and practice, except when we arrive at modern yugioh. The powercreep making so many 1 card combos powerful essentially forces you to play 15+ handtraps in every deck (there are few exceptions). The handtraps are also not diverse, in any given format, most people will be playing the same handtraps and you see them constantly. The handtraps are also generic enough that they hit EVERY deck in general. Since the most efficient combo you can do is a 1 card combo, and the most efficient answer is a handtrap, every deck essentially races to tightening up to as many handtraps they can run, with as many combo starters they can have and that killllllllllls a good amount of deck building. It creates the same problem people have with old school yugioh where every deck ran all the best power spells (pot of greed, graceful charity, delinquent duo, etc) but with handtraps today. Half your deck is built for you. The other issue with 1 card combos relates to when you talked about dealing with stalling. In yugioh if your opponent has no hand traps, you can EASILY kill 10+ minutes comboing at a reasonable pace with almost all decks. Obviously this isnt stalling since youre playing the game, but you can just kill a ton of time doing it, effectively stalling while playing by the rules. Burn your opponent with 5 minutes left on the clock, then just do random comboing until the clock hits 0 and GG... Last thing LSV spoke about, 'its fine to do a lot of actions as long as 1 player isnt doing like 90% of the actions'. Cimooo made it seem as though both players are taking many actions during both turns. I would argue aside from tear format, the going second player is generally doing almost nothing during their opponents first turn. The taking action difference is like 2/3 actions for turn 2 player (maybe a few handtraps) vs 50+ for the turn 1 player, especially if they can play through the handtraps you present. Handtraps were an interesting design, and are really fun to play with, for a long time you would actively have to decide whether or not they were good enough to include in the main/side etc and vs what matchups. Now things are so fast they are a mandatory include and without them you essentially auto lose the game. Decks have 1 card combos and ways to play through 1/2 even smts 3 handtraps and arrive at their crazy endboard. The handtraps stop certain decks, konami powercreeps the monsters to play through the handtraps, then konami powercreeps the handtraps and they stop the next best thing as well as all the previous good stuff, rinse and repeat.
Congrats LSV I will miss you on the show. Best guest because he really really gets card games. His ability to know Gorz’s mind game immediately is insane.
25:40 Droll&Lockbird is narset, parter of veils static and was used in the exact same way as narset combined with wheel effects but at instant speed. Using a card called trickster reincarnation you could wait for your opponent to search or draw, something very common in Yugioh then fire the reincarnation, bannishing their entire hand and forcing them to draw the same number of cards, but if you chained the Droll & Lockbird they would draw no cards and just loose their entire hand.
I am early for once! As soneone whose only memory of Yu-Gi-Oh is from the early era (I only played up to Ritual summon... yea) I am excited to see these cards and guess along with the guests. And LSV is one of my fav xD Edit: Also Congrats to LSV! We will miss you. But glad to at least know your absent is for the joyful occasion.
These LSV and CGB collabs are my absolute favorite thing on youtube right now. I hope they never end. And congrats LSV on the new addition to the family! 🎉
These Videos with LSV has been great, and Congrats on the Twins LSV been following ya for a very long time, and got to meet ya at some GPs of old. When things settle down, and we get more of these videos I really can't wait for the video of LSV plays Yugioh and Cimo plays MTG with LSV, or some bigger video that has all these players of different games having to play games of the others.
I love Skull Meister, back in the early MD days where Zoo was still basically UDF/Zeus turbo I played the shit out of that deck and I can not tell you how many times I won due to Skull Meister beat down Cx
Ghost Sister, for current format, is decent against Tenpai As Cimo mentioned, not getting otk'd can make the whole difference Can help you push through a Dimension Shifter also
I remember there was a time in Magic's Pauper format where Mystic Remora was a staple sideboard card for the top deck's mirror match because the deck was built around returning your own cheap non-creature cards from the field to the hand with cards like Kor Skyfisher.
Fun fact: what Cimo described with Nibiru, where you ask your opponent if that was their 5th summon for mind games, that is considered to be cheating by Yugioh’s tournament rules and could get you a warning or even DQ’ed
Not exactly, this is a bit vague since there's an element of "intention" in how infractions are handled in yugioh, but there's no hard rule against asking how many times someone has summoned as it is public information. However, if you actively admit to doing this to misrepresent the gamestate or it's exceedingly obvious that that is your intent (this is where it gets very subjective), judges will take action. It's like the swordsoul token situation, it wasn't illegal to use that token in a non-swordsoul deck, it was illegal to have the intent to mislead with it and if you admit that on a public video like that one player did, konami can take action.
I think that LSV is such a great guest, but I think that in order for him to evaluate card more accurately, Cimo should explain the concept of "choke point" in combos, I know an MTG guy of LSVs caliber sure understands right away, but it'll help him just piece things together.
Thank you for including Kuriboh, because I feel like a lot of people forget that it is the first handtrap and not DD Crow. Also, I was wondering if you'd include the Mulcharmy triforce just to show him that Maxx C was so powerful that they had to break its effect into pieces, which are still quite strong in their own right.
Eeeh, i think they're off about Droll. I feel like that card sees constant side deck play in the modern era and can instantly win against a myriad of decks
Drolls crazy good. Sure some formats it can be bad like for example lab. But 90% of the time the cards the strongest hand trap aside from shifter. Definitely undersold it.
You're just wrong though. I'll paste my response to someone else's same claim here: You can just look at tournament results, it still only sees inconsistent play. Every few formats it pops up, but it's absolutely not good vs everything. Hell, even in formats where people THINK it's crazy it often turns out to be not that good. People were suggesting this vs snake eye when it first came out and very quickly learned that was the wrong choice. And even against decks that it's strong against (Infernoble from a few formats ago,) those decks often find ways to play around it and end on a weaker but still reasonable board, just like any other hand trap. If you disagree with me, pull up YGOProDeck and look at tournament results. Droll and Lock Bird might be one of the biggest cards that people misunderstand constantly.
@@owendawg1 ofc it's bad again snake eyes because they can play around it, droll is irelevant in fire format but again combo heavy and draw alot like white forest, azamina etc it's still good, sure they can play arround it but they only end up with arround 2 or 3 interuption
I hope LSV reads this for some lore (non-gameplay) context about the level of mosnters, your level 1 to 2, are about as strong as a common human, you migth be able to take on a fight and win. 3 to 5 are about as strong a highly combat trained human. 6 to 8 are the top of food chain, naturally strong magical beings, erudites in magic, absurdly powerful dragons, knights that surpass the limits of the body, etc, specially the level 8 is as powerful you can get as a mortal being without going into godhood. Level 10 are literal gods, most deities are lv10 (so, 9 are beings in the path to godhood). 12 is reserved for overgods, only epic stuff that surpass divinity are 12, there are creation gods or ultimate beings that can end worlds and realities (and for 11, you can extrapolate their power, but it's also the level with the least mosters). Also, WOW! Congrats LSV! Wonderfull news!
As for looking at a card, reading what it does and interpreting it without fully understanding it is another matter. Look at Ghotis for example, it's really complicated to understand what they do by reading them and they sound terrible, but once you begin to understand how they actually work they are honestly just a really stupid deck that gets around alot of what the meta is. They still have to play around the negates like anyother deck, but my first time playing them, having to not interact with the graveyard, and playing on your opponents turn is crazy. I just started with them, but just when I thought I was done after establishing a strong board, it showed up... "Would you like to use the effect of..." Like damn it just keeps going. Banish banish banish... you know... I'll banish your whole board for free, not destroy, not send to the grave, just banish, yeah I just made this level 8 synchro, I'll banish it and one of your cards, oh btw it comes back immediately, but not your card. And the deck counters itself, since when does a deck inherently counter itself in the event of a mirror match? But then you look at something like Kabuzals. A lvl4 normal Dinosaur, does absolutely nothing, just has 1700 attack. Defined an entire format because of a bunny rabbit, and some dragon lizards. Sometimes if a card is just too stupid to make sense, there probably some really dumb card that makes it good. Like White Duston, an utterly useless card, even if you play duston it's garbage. But here comes along a very specific card that has a very specific requirement of a light fiend monster, and here you have this other card that can summon a lvl 1 or 2 normal monster, and white duston just happens to be a lvl1 light fiend normal monster meeting both cards requirements. Is it any good, not really... but there always something stupid that gives a random ass card a purpose.
I really like LSV! Love his analysis, it's so much fun listening to his deductions! Good luck with the twins, may they grow up to be nice and smart people like you are!
Best wishes, LSV! Wish you and the family all the best. We'll be happy to see you back when you're ready to come back, but by all means take the time you need. c:
Some interesting counter-play against Ash Blossom, that some modern archetypes have, is that they will have effects that place their monsters into the Spell & Trap zones. This completely bypasses Ashes' conditions (as does any other card that says "place/set X on your Spell & Trap/ Field zones from your Deck/ GY" etc.). Thought it'd be an interesting thing to point out since Ash is one of the most popular handtraps in our game.
I think the funniest thing about Imperm is that it's almost second nature for some people that they would activate spells in the middle column and just forgot that it's the imperm column
Maybe it's a three-initial thing, but LSV and CGB have been the most enjoyable to watch in this format- they're listening and learning, and building on their knowledge to make informed judgements in the future, not just forgetting everything between videos and rating the cards in isolation. Hope to see him back after he's had some time off for his little Gemini Elves!
My favorite way to think about handtraps when I started playing yugioh was like if mental misstep had several cycles each with different narrow things they could counter before your first turn.
I am pretty sure blackwing anti-reverse is a trap older then imperm that can be activated from hand, and so is tachyon transmigration, but still imperm is the first "good" one that can be activated from hand
This might sound odd, but one use of Honest's bounce effect is that it is summonable from the deck by Shining Angel and Nova Summoner, so you can, in theory, pull it out of the deck the turn before it is needed.
I love the video because one thing that most magic players get wrong about YuGiOh! is that they don't really see interaction besides the player making the most degenerate end boards while going first. Now they get to realize that there is counter play and interaction. Pretty good video.
Cimoooo: You are wrong about drool and lock bird, about being unable to supprise your opponent, yes you have to activated in respond to your opponent finishing a tutoring, or draw outside the Draw phase but during that timing, the trick start player can activated Trickstar reincarnation trap and if the opponent as no respond, they chain droll and lock bird as chain link 2 since they are both responding to the being tutored, or being draw(s) outside the draw phase. Lock bird resolve first, then trick star reincarnation resolve by banishing the entire hand and you don't draw with the effect of trick star reincarnation because of lock bird, so most opponent strait up scoope because it strait out sever toxic play done by your opponent and Trick start is already toxic with being a burn deck so it add another toxic to what is already a high toxic archetype.
But that's not a surprise, that's usually an incredibly telegraphed play. Just one you can't really do anything about unless you happen to have an ash for the reincarnation or something (in which case you're still under droll which isn't a great spot to be in anyway).
At: hanness: Sorry can't used your full username since youtube would auto hide my comment: What you said does not work, So in the same situation in the response window of Drawing(S) or Tutoring, my opponent activated trick star reincarnation, then I pass priority, then he chain lock and droll bird, me chaining Ash blosom as chain link 3 is an illegal play. It is because of the (When) but that is not the only reason. Even if Ash blossom would be an (If) that would mean you can do it, however you still can't because the (If) is still stuck following the rules of a When for this, so they would be no point to be an (If) this is because activating an effect of a card the max speed is 2 and does not go higher then 2, so it carry the same rules as counter trap. Only the activation of card can go to a speed 3 and does are counter trap, this is why you never see a counter trap with an (IF) because it can never break its own rules even if allowed. Notice the game Rush duel since they are no missing the timming in Rush duel this is why they are no counter trap card in Rush duel because if they where Counter trap in Rush duel, they would behave life (IF) and never behave like (when) so in Rush duel if they where counter trap that negate the activation of just trap card, you could do this chain link 1 trap card, chain link 2 effect of a monster, and chain link 3 the counter trap negated the activation of trap card. Imagine you can do that in the non-rush duel, this would cause all the counter trap to get banned.
@@SuperNickid that's a lot of words for missing the fact you obviously Ash the reincarnation when it's activated, you don't wait for droll. That's what I mean by telegraphed, if they're on reincarnation obviously they're on droll too.
LSV did pretty good though some things to note - hanewata cannot prevent the dmg from paying LP as cost (e.g pyramid of light) or done as a consequences of an effect (e.g soul charge) - you cant drop gorz on the opponent turn 1 going 2nd from going face because turn 1 doesnt allow access to the battle phase, technically you can if they inflict a paltry amount of effect dmg but thats a waste of gorz and if its big enough effect dmg to kill then the game ends before gorz can trigger - no you cannot go "oh how many summons have you done, oh thats your 5th summon, oh ok" to your opponent because you got nibiru in hand, thats way too direct and would classify as disclosing private info which is against the rules
Man LSV is damn good at evaluating cards. He picked up on most of the play patterns of all these cards and even when he was wrong it feels like he was right lol. Would have been cool to see his reaction to the Mulcharmy cards that are coming out right now as a bonus. Being basically the power of Maxx C split into 3 like the Triforce and still being meta defining.
Part of the reason Honest was so good was because of something rarely considered to be relevant in card games, the battle damage dealt to the opponent's life. If you had a 2500 attack monster and the opponent attacked it with a bigger monster expecting to kill it, you'd not only save your monster, but also kill their and inflict 2500 damage. A lot of the time, this meant your opponent was left with an empty board against your monster and was low on life points, letting you end the game the next turn after you summoned one or two more monsters. There's a bunch of other reasons it was so oppressive, such as nothing being able to respond to it (unlike MtG, almost nothing can respond to an effect during the Damage Step in yugioh), and BLS being a monster than can attack twice, effectively utilizing the attack buff from a single Honest twice, to be able to easily OTK.
55:29 The game time is a good point. For quite a few tournaments, matches will go past the 45 minute time limit. If the games are interactive, does turn count really matter?
Going +2 is crazy! Congrats LSV
Pot of greed influenced him hard.
waiting 9 months for only +2 isnt very optimal imo🙂
@geno1073 you’re greatly over estimating the speed of the current format imo. But we’ll see who’s right when we get some tournament results
LSV channeling that Ancestral Recall energy
@@Ollig999 +2 is nice but the tempo loss afterwards can be pretty devastating
LSV has been the best guest for this show. I understand the leave, but I'll be super excited when he comes back!
LSV's analysis on Gorz was SPOT ON. He described the mind games and how we used to play around it perfectly. I love that card.
For real. It's always a delight watching him just absolutely nail the entire trajectory of a card's history like that without even playing the game. That's how you truly know he's a game master.
I'm even more impressed he understood Gamma that well. Especially the "drawing Driver" part. A MTG player could easily think that drawing a decently statted vanilla is fine.
I still play around gorz to this day
You can just see from listening to him, that he‘s a professional at card games. His understanding is beyond just mtg, and I really like that about him
@@Inso_yuugen at this point, playing around Gorz is not a strat, it's a lifestyle
I'm a bit sad that we won't have LSV for a while, but I wish him the best with the twins!
Also, oh boy, LSV reads the comments! How can we manipulate him into believing something silly? :P
Probably not by planning this In the comments :D
tell him penguins arent real
@@uuh4yj43wdym penguins were one of the best archetypes
@@uuh4yj43 Convince him the penguin archetype is tier 0.
@@jamaldavis2480 I MEAN have you read Penguin Soldier? It's basically double Compulse. That card is CRAZY.
LSV would be an amazing YGO player, that much is obvious. It was also enormously enjoyable to have him as a guest here - hope he will eventually try the game out at some point. Huge thanks to Cimo and LSV for making some of my evenings so much more enjoyable!
And congrats to him on the twins!
LSV is just a very intelligent and experienced person when it comes to everything TCG.
Massive props for having Kuriboh represented as the OG handtrap
Definitely, way too many people skip over it when listing the handtraps.
Something that could be cute if LSV returns is having him evaluate any cards that feature twins
Delinquent Duo, the entire Live Twin archetype, Gemini Elf
Lol that's cool
Princess Curran and Princess Pikeru too maybe
Love seeing LSV's experience of learning about Yugioh! And congrats to him on the twins :D
another difference between mourner and veiler that you didn't touch, is the difference between veiler's "send to gy" and mourner "discard". its quite interesting to remind how this is a lawyer's card game
Yeah Mourner can be used under Shifter, which is relevant, and it would be way more relevant when Maliss and the other deck which i forgot the name become available here.
@@Ms666slayer I need Shifter to be limited in Maliss format
@@Ms666slayer ryzeal, but yeah that interaction was pretty important in kashtira format
LSV understands card game mechanics on a level that is quite rare to see and this episode shows that what he can say about card games can extend to other games. Ash Blossom being one of the most popular cards ever but being at 3 isn't dissimilar to competitive Pokemon and Landorus-Therian, it gives stability to the game which is different from making it boring
Lando-T is, like, the perfect analog for ash blossom, down to the fact that if Lando-T gets power crept it's its game proverbial canary in the coal mine. Ash being sub-optimal against snake-eyes exhibited the same concept
He played part in making the Eternal ccg so yeah, he knows his stuff to some extent.
I wonder what's the Incineroar of ygo... Assuming most things are legal/not banned. My guess is Maxx C since it supports your other stuff the best
LSV has some exceptional reading comprehension. Can't wait for him to react to Small World.
Honest being Damage Step only might've also been relevent for LSV, saying it's a "Pump spell with Split Second" makes it sound a LOT better.
LSVs analysis on Gorz was incredible
the man read the entire play pattern both of and around the card instantly
and he did it again for Swift Scarecrow, with the annoying stall decks that play no monsters.
the man is so good at this
also congratulations to him!
LSV looking at the comments is awesome, it shows he's genuinely intrigued by the game design.
That's awesome for LSV, happy for him on the twins.
I will miss his insight on these cards, it's really cool to see. Can't wait for him to return.
Cimooo missed that Droll aged really well and now hits basically every deck.
He also missed that you very much can "gotcha" your opponent with it. It's the disturbance strategy combo
@@cyanideinfusion6760 That discussion was about whether you could choose not to droll after the first search and drop it later in the turn to negate the second search, which you can't do.
@@cyanideinfusion6760It's not a "gotcha," but more like a "no further shall you go!"
This...isnt true. Like you can just look at tournament results, it's still only sees inconsistent play. Every few formats it pops up, but it's absolutely not good vs everything. Hell, even in formats where people THINK it's crazy it often turns out to be not that good. People were suggesting this vs snake eye when it first came out and very quickly learned that was the wrong choice. And even against decks that it's strong against (Infernoble from a few formats ago,) those decks often find ways to play around it and end on a weaker but still reasonable board, just like any other hand trap.
If you disagree with me, pull up YGOProDeck and look at tournament results. Droll and Lock Bird might be one of the biggest cards that people misunderstand constantly.
Definitely, though I do think that a lot of recent (especially post pote) decks are pretty at playing around it
or at least can beat it often enough that it isn't a consistently powerful as ash, imperm and the bad imperms that are still good enough
Knowing the rules about the Damage Step would really have helped LSV in evaluating Honest. If spell speed two removal can kill the monster targeted by Honest, the card becomes much worse.
Exactly, kind of big context of Damage Step and activation timing is needed to evaluate the card. In magic, combat works such that you'd be able to Mirror Force in response to your opponent activating Honest, so its natural to think the card would be much worse.
@@brokeDSUIn Yu-Gi-Oh, only effects that change atk and/or def can be activated in the damage step, right?
@@laytonjr6601 Just about, a few other exceptions exist, but generally its only stat modifiers or things that say "during the damage step"
@@syrelianAnd quick effects that negate the activation of said effects (one example might be solemn strike or judgement, although those are counter traps rather than quick effects)
@@aether6293 to be fair, counter traps are a higher spell speed than quick effects, and are almost always activate-able, context notwithstanding
Love that LSV connected effects back to Magic in this video. Something that I thought was a little lacking in the past and I’m so glad he did. Can’t wait to have him back once his life settles down.
I was an avid listener of Limited Resources for years (the only reason I don't listen as much as I used to is because I don't play much Magic these days) so I've known LSV is a fantastic presence on content in general, as well as an excellent evaluator of cards. It's been really cool seeing him here, and seeing him go above and beyond the usual expectations for this sort of cross game content. Reading the comments when it's not his own channel, being genuinely interested in what the game actually is instead of just dismissing it as "game is decided on turn one, game bad" which is what most MTG players assume about YGO, and on top of that his evaluations are insanely good considering he's never played the game.
Congrats on the new additions to your family, LSV!
0 dislikes on the video as I write this comment and I think it really harkens to how important these videos are just for yu-gi-oh in general. Yugioh notoriously struggles to integrate new players and that is exactly what videos like this do, not just for LSV, but the whole community. Great content and great personalities on these videos, so much love!
As a magic player I had a completely wrong view of the game before these videos.
The "games last 2-3 turns" saying really doesnt do the justice since theres so many things going on.
I thought it was silly at first that just one card can start a string of game actions that leave you with a giant board, but theres so many ways to interact and the side deck gives so many decision points
Found a ton of respect for the game now and love these videos
Just as some added context for the different handtraps, going over some of the missed information as well as why handtraps are important pros/cons:
Honest was extremely powerful also due to the fact that you could use multiple of them on the same attack effectively being extra burn cards and randomly having enough damage to kill the opponent. The bounce effect was also extremely good in simplified gamestates, since going back to the hand protected it from battle and any light monster you drew could never lose a battle since the honest was back in hand. If you had 2 honests, you could also summon 1, attack their biggest thing, drop the second honest, then bounce back the one on board.
Effect veiler as well as D.D. Crow also had certain archetype synergies that boosted their powerlevels for specific formats. Blue-eyes decks could search for level 1 light tuners (effect veiler) and Flowandereeze could search for lvl 1 winged-beast (D.D Crow, Flowandereeze is also a deck the revolves around banishing cards)
Swift Scarecrow is exactly like fog, same with its brother Battle Fader, used in stall decks like Final Countdown (which ran self destruct button as a safety net)
Droll & Lock Bird is a card that feels horrible to play against, there are many decks that simply instantly fold to the card being played. One of the issues with yugioh, is that since 99% of decks can do 1 million things on their first turn, if you get caught with a hand that loses to droll & lock bird, there is simply nothing you can do. There are many non-games that happen with droll in play for both players. Since every card is so extremely valuable (many 1 card combos that can generate you to a +10 board state), droll completely stopping your opponent vs droll not doing anything either auto win you the game (by turn skip) or lose you the game (discard a card for nothing and opponent still made their board). It isnt often that droll hits that goldilocks point in many metas of slowing down enough but not shutting down.
The Ghost sister cards are generally all playable depending on the format (except ash blossom which is basically always a 3 of, bar some specific decks) Cherry during BA format, ghost ogre during pendulum formats (and current format), ghost belle is generally ok but not great, mourner is as stated, more effect veilers/imperns, unless your in the asian regions where the card works differently and is much better, and spooky dogwood is a time-cuck card. It is very rarely ever played to survive extra turns
Nibiru the primal being IMO is only really interesting when decks need to make the choice of, do i play into it or do i slow down. The issue is the best decks almost always have a way to either negate nibiru's effect or continue playing even if they get nibiru'ed. Its extremely annoying dropping nibiru on a fully commited opponent and then they combo through that effect and still end with their board.
Dimension shifter is the bane of every yugioh players existence. It is a turn skip card. 90% of decks RELY on their grave to combo and make plays/have follow up. The card is so powerful that some decks will hurt themselves just so that they can play the card (tenpai dragon) since it is such a destructive force to almost every deck.
Hand traps are a cool idea in concept and practice, except when we arrive at modern yugioh. The powercreep making so many 1 card combos powerful essentially forces you to play 15+ handtraps in every deck (there are few exceptions). The handtraps are also not diverse, in any given format, most people will be playing the same handtraps and you see them constantly. The handtraps are also generic enough that they hit EVERY deck in general. Since the most efficient combo you can do is a 1 card combo, and the most efficient answer is a handtrap, every deck essentially races to tightening up to as many handtraps they can run, with as many combo starters they can have and that killllllllllls a good amount of deck building. It creates the same problem people have with old school yugioh where every deck ran all the best power spells (pot of greed, graceful charity, delinquent duo, etc) but with handtraps today. Half your deck is built for you.
The other issue with 1 card combos relates to when you talked about dealing with stalling. In yugioh if your opponent has no hand traps, you can EASILY kill 10+ minutes comboing at a reasonable pace with almost all decks. Obviously this isnt stalling since youre playing the game, but you can just kill a ton of time doing it, effectively stalling while playing by the rules. Burn your opponent with 5 minutes left on the clock, then just do random comboing until the clock hits 0 and GG...
Last thing LSV spoke about, 'its fine to do a lot of actions as long as 1 player isnt doing like 90% of the actions'. Cimooo made it seem as though both players are taking many actions during both turns. I would argue aside from tear format, the going second player is generally doing almost nothing during their opponents first turn. The taking action difference is like 2/3 actions for turn 2 player (maybe a few handtraps) vs 50+ for the turn 1 player, especially if they can play through the handtraps you present.
Handtraps were an interesting design, and are really fun to play with, for a long time you would actively have to decide whether or not they were good enough to include in the main/side etc and vs what matchups. Now things are so fast they are a mandatory include and without them you essentially auto lose the game. Decks have 1 card combos and ways to play through 1/2 even smts 3 handtraps and arrive at their crazy endboard. The handtraps stop certain decks, konami powercreeps the monsters to play through the handtraps, then konami powercreeps the handtraps and they stop the next best thing as well as all the previous good stuff, rinse and repeat.
LSV is my favorite for these! he does great insight
Congrats LSV I will miss you on the show. Best guest because he really really gets card games. His ability to know Gorz’s mind game immediately is insane.
25:40 Droll&Lockbird is narset, parter of veils static and was used in the exact same way as narset combined with wheel effects but at instant speed. Using a card called trickster reincarnation you could wait for your opponent to search or draw, something very common in Yugioh then fire the reincarnation, bannishing their entire hand and forcing them to draw the same number of cards, but if you chained the Droll & Lockbird they would draw no cards and just loose their entire hand.
I can't believe Cimo would do Tachyon Transmigration like that, came way before Imperm.
Typhoon too i believe
Aww No LSV?! But Twins! Congrats!
Congrats to LSV for having twins! He's been amazing evaluating all the cards and he's been the most enjoyable and insightful guest.
I love the LSV videos because they feel so collaborative. Like Cimo isnt trying to trick him so much as just sharing interesting cards.
I am early for once! As soneone whose only memory of Yu-Gi-Oh is from the early era (I only played up to Ritual summon... yea) I am excited to see these cards and guess along with the guests. And LSV is one of my fav xD
Edit: Also Congrats to LSV! We will miss you. But glad to at least know your absent is for the joyful occasion.
These LSV and CGB collabs are my absolute favorite thing on youtube right now. I hope they never end. And congrats LSV on the new addition to the family! 🎉
Congrats on your news LSV been a pleasure to here your soothing comintary on cards and hopefully you had fun learning our game
These Videos with LSV has been great, and Congrats on the Twins LSV been following ya for a very long time, and got to meet ya at some GPs of old. When things settle down, and we get more of these videos I really can't wait for the video of LSV plays Yugioh and Cimo plays MTG with LSV, or some bigger video that has all these players of different games having to play games of the others.
For Droll & Lock bird, they didn't really even touch on searching cards. LSV & cimo just kept mentioning "draw" effects, not "add"
I love the LSV episodes. Very sad that there wont be another one in the near future but i wish him and his family all the best❤
Would love to see an addendum/part 2 with Called by the Grave, Crossout Designator, the Bystials, Mulcharmies, Dominus Purge/Impulse
I love Skull Meister, back in the early MD days where Zoo was still basically UDF/Zeus turbo I played the shit out of that deck and I can not tell you how many times I won due to Skull Meister beat down Cx
I love this guy, congrats to him and his family, but can't wait for his return!
Ghost Sister, for current format, is decent against Tenpai
As Cimo mentioned, not getting otk'd can make the whole difference
Can help you push through a Dimension Shifter also
I remember there was a time in Magic's Pauper format where Mystic Remora was a staple sideboard card for the top deck's mirror match because the deck was built around returning your own cheap non-creature cards from the field to the hand with cards like Kor Skyfisher.
"Graviton Cannon"
Somebody please jot down THAT name for new card.
It's a Warhammer 40k thing i think, so probably trademarked!
@@Triforce9426 I mean that is essentially what Wave Motion Cannon is
Congratulations to you and your wife. Wishing you all the best.
Fun fact: what Cimo described with Nibiru, where you ask your opponent if that was their 5th summon for mind games, that is considered to be cheating by Yugioh’s tournament rules and could get you a warning or even DQ’ed
Not exactly, this is a bit vague since there's an element of "intention" in how infractions are handled in yugioh, but there's no hard rule against asking how many times someone has summoned as it is public information. However, if you actively admit to doing this to misrepresent the gamestate or it's exceedingly obvious that that is your intent (this is where it gets very subjective), judges will take action.
It's like the swordsoul token situation, it wasn't illegal to use that token in a non-swordsoul deck, it was illegal to have the intent to mislead with it and if you admit that on a public video like that one player did, konami can take action.
Congrats LSV on the twins. Good luck with them.
Gorz, like Imperm, changing the way people play forever. Like MaRo describing the mechanical nature of Miracle.
LSV has been really one of the best guests, if not the best. His analysis are always amazing! Im so happy for him and his newborns twins
Congrats on the twins! We love to have you here but so happy for you!
Makes a lot of sense to do this after synchros since so many handtraps are tuners for some reason
the reason being extra utility.
Because early on handtraps werent really used and had weak stats like effect veiler (which was also used in the anime tho)
cant wait till lsv comes back again, i wanna see him rate more of the crazy OP boss monsters
gonna miss this guy, hope he and his family are healthy and have an amazing time
Dingus Egg and guest. Perfect Talk Show
Really happy to see LSV, he makes such cool remarks
just today i watched the last videos with LSV(couldn't bother myself to work, so yeah). I just love this guy
MTG Convert...
D.D Crow.
Cycle : 0 Generic (Exile 1 target card in an opponent's GY).
Faerie macabre already exists
@@pro711200yeah I got a open tournament pack from shadowmoor and saw faerie macabre and say to my friends "hey DD crow on steroids!"
I think that LSV is such a great guest, but I think that in order for him to evaluate card more accurately, Cimo should explain the concept of "choke point" in combos, I know an MTG guy of LSVs caliber sure understands right away, but it'll help him just piece things together.
Thank you for including Kuriboh, because I feel like a lot of people forget that it is the first handtrap and not DD Crow.
Also, I was wondering if you'd include the Mulcharmy triforce just to show him that Maxx C was so powerful that they had to break its effect into pieces, which are still quite strong in their own right.
Huge huge congrats for you LSV!!
LSV Best guest. You got my Sub
Grats on the twins LSV! Hope everything goes well and everyone is healthy!
As a Cyber Dragon player, congrats on LSV for fusion summoning Cyber Twin Dragons!
Awww! Gl with the new double addition to your family lsv!!!
Congratulations @LSV on the twins!! 🎉🎉🎉❤
Eeeh, i think they're off about Droll. I feel like that card sees constant side deck play in the modern era and can instantly win against a myriad of decks
Drolls crazy good. Sure some formats it can be bad like for example lab. But 90% of the time the cards the strongest hand trap aside from shifter. Definitely undersold it.
cimo biased there, droll is good, every deck nowadays searchs a lot
You're just wrong though. I'll paste my response to someone else's same claim here:
You can just look at tournament results, it still only sees inconsistent play. Every few formats it pops up, but it's absolutely not good vs everything. Hell, even in formats where people THINK it's crazy it often turns out to be not that good. People were suggesting this vs snake eye when it first came out and very quickly learned that was the wrong choice. And even against decks that it's strong against (Infernoble from a few formats ago,) those decks often find ways to play around it and end on a weaker but still reasonable board, just like any other hand trap.
If you disagree with me, pull up YGOProDeck and look at tournament results. Droll and Lock Bird might be one of the biggest cards that people misunderstand constantly.
How do you "feel like" it sees constant play??? We literally have tournament results
@@owendawg1 ofc it's bad again snake eyes because they can play around it, droll is irelevant in fire format but again combo heavy and draw alot like white forest, azamina etc it's still good, sure they can play arround it but they only end up with arround 2 or 3 interuption
I hope LSV reads this for some lore (non-gameplay) context about the level of mosnters, your level 1 to 2, are about as strong as a common human, you migth be able to take on a fight and win. 3 to 5 are about as strong a highly combat trained human. 6 to 8 are the top of food chain, naturally strong magical beings, erudites in magic, absurdly powerful dragons, knights that surpass the limits of the body, etc, specially the level 8 is as powerful you can get as a mortal being without going into godhood. Level 10 are literal gods, most deities are lv10 (so, 9 are beings in the path to godhood). 12 is reserved for overgods, only epic stuff that surpass divinity are 12, there are creation gods or ultimate beings that can end worlds and realities (and for 11, you can extrapolate their power, but it's also the level with the least mosters).
Also, WOW! Congrats LSV! Wonderfull news!
As for looking at a card, reading what it does and interpreting it without fully understanding it is another matter. Look at Ghotis for example, it's really complicated to understand what they do by reading them and they sound terrible, but once you begin to understand how they actually work they are honestly just a really stupid deck that gets around alot of what the meta is. They still have to play around the negates like anyother deck, but my first time playing them, having to not interact with the graveyard, and playing on your opponents turn is crazy. I just started with them, but just when I thought I was done after establishing a strong board, it showed up... "Would you like to use the effect of..." Like damn it just keeps going. Banish banish banish... you know... I'll banish your whole board for free, not destroy, not send to the grave, just banish, yeah I just made this level 8 synchro, I'll banish it and one of your cards, oh btw it comes back immediately, but not your card. And the deck counters itself, since when does a deck inherently counter itself in the event of a mirror match?
But then you look at something like Kabuzals. A lvl4 normal Dinosaur, does absolutely nothing, just has 1700 attack. Defined an entire format because of a bunny rabbit, and some dragon lizards. Sometimes if a card is just too stupid to make sense, there probably some really dumb card that makes it good. Like White Duston, an utterly useless card, even if you play duston it's garbage. But here comes along a very specific card that has a very specific requirement of a light fiend monster, and here you have this other card that can summon a lvl 1 or 2 normal monster, and white duston just happens to be a lvl1 light fiend normal monster meeting both cards requirements. Is it any good, not really... but there always something stupid that gives a random ass card a purpose.
Starting with Kuriboh gave me the Idea, maybe have one of your Guests guess if a Card lead to become an Archetype
I really like LSV! Love his analysis, it's so much fun listening to his deductions! Good luck with the twins, may they grow up to be nice and smart people like you are!
Showing LSV Crossout Designator as the final card would’ve been sick. Now that he’s seen the cards it hits
This series is Goated, love all the guests!
Cimo forgot to mention how many times players forget the imper colum and play in it. The reactions are always funny
Congrats to LSV on the twins and he was a great gues, hope to see him back
LSV just innately understanding Gorz order is really cool
Would have liked to see LSV’s reaction to the Mulcharmies as “fixed” Maxx Cs
Best wishes, LSV! Wish you and the family all the best. We'll be happy to see you back when you're ready to come back, but by all means take the time you need. c:
Some interesting counter-play against Ash Blossom, that some modern archetypes have, is that they will have effects that place their monsters into the Spell & Trap zones. This completely bypasses Ashes' conditions (as does any other card that says "place/set X on your Spell & Trap/ Field zones from your Deck/ GY" etc.). Thought it'd be an interesting thing to point out since Ash is one of the most popular handtraps in our game.
I've been watching LSV for over a decade, I take 2nd hand pride in this.
I think the funniest thing about Imperm is that it's almost second nature for some people that they would activate spells in the middle column and just forgot that it's the imperm column
If I go first I always set imperm in the middle, it works every time
I actually don’t like that MD makes the column all irradiated and bubbly. I want to catch people slippin lol
Maybe it's a three-initial thing, but LSV and CGB have been the most enjoyable to watch in this format- they're listening and learning, and building on their knowledge to make informed judgements in the future, not just forgetting everything between videos and rating the cards in isolation.
Hope to see him back after he's had some time off for his little Gemini Elves!
My favorite way to think about handtraps when I started playing yugioh was like if mental misstep had several cycles each with different narrow things they could counter before your first turn.
I am pretty sure blackwing anti-reverse is a trap older then imperm that can be activated from hand, and so is tachyon transmigration, but still imperm is the first "good" one that can be activated from hand
I love gorz and watching him perfectly analyze that card on the first read was amazing to watch.
definitely the best guest of this series. No offense to the others but LSV’s analysis is the best
cant wait for prog series 3 with LSV & CGB
glad to see lsv finally get to witness the hero endboard
This might sound odd, but one use of Honest's bounce effect is that it is summonable from the deck by Shining Angel and Nova Summoner, so you can, in theory, pull it out of the deck the turn before it is needed.
Dimension Shifter is justice personified, it makes mega combo players feel what it is like to play against theirs.
I love the video because one thing that most magic players get wrong about YuGiOh! is that they don't really see interaction besides the player making the most degenerate end boards while going first. Now they get to realize that there is counter play and interaction. Pretty good video.
Cimoooo: You are wrong about drool and lock bird, about being unable to supprise your opponent, yes you have to activated in respond to your opponent finishing a tutoring, or draw outside the Draw phase but during that timing, the trick start player can activated Trickstar reincarnation trap and if the opponent as no respond, they chain droll and lock bird as chain link 2 since they are both responding to the being tutored, or being draw(s) outside the draw phase. Lock bird resolve first, then trick star reincarnation resolve by banishing the entire hand and you don't draw with the effect of trick star reincarnation because of lock bird, so most opponent strait up scoope because it strait out sever toxic play done by your opponent and Trick start is already toxic with being a burn deck so it add another toxic to what is already a high toxic archetype.
But that's not a surprise, that's usually an incredibly telegraphed play. Just one you can't really do anything about unless you happen to have an ash for the reincarnation or something (in which case you're still under droll which isn't a great spot to be in anyway).
At: hanness: Sorry can't used your full username since youtube would auto hide my comment: What you said does not work, So in the same situation in the response window of Drawing(S) or Tutoring, my opponent activated trick star reincarnation, then I pass priority, then he chain lock and droll bird, me chaining Ash blosom as chain link 3 is an illegal play. It is because of the (When) but that is not the only reason. Even if Ash blossom would be an (If) that would mean you can do it, however you still can't because the (If) is still stuck following the rules of a When for this, so they would be no point to be an (If) this is because activating an effect of a card the max speed is 2 and does not go higher then 2, so it carry the same rules as counter trap. Only the activation of card can go to a speed 3 and does are counter trap, this is why you never see a counter trap with an (IF) because it can never break its own rules even if allowed. Notice the game Rush duel since they are no missing the timming in Rush duel this is why they are no counter trap card in Rush duel because if they where Counter trap in Rush duel, they would behave life (IF) and never behave like (when) so in Rush duel if they where counter trap that negate the activation of just trap card, you could do this chain link 1 trap card, chain link 2 effect of a monster, and chain link 3 the counter trap negated the activation of trap card. Imagine you can do that in the non-rush duel, this would cause all the counter trap to get banned.
@@SuperNickid that's a lot of words for missing the fact you obviously Ash the reincarnation when it's activated, you don't wait for droll. That's what I mean by telegraphed, if they're on reincarnation obviously they're on droll too.
LSV did pretty good though some things to note
- hanewata cannot prevent the dmg from paying LP as cost (e.g pyramid of light) or done as a consequences of an effect (e.g soul charge)
- you cant drop gorz on the opponent turn 1 going 2nd from going face because turn 1 doesnt allow access to the battle phase, technically you can if they inflict a paltry amount of effect dmg but thats a waste of gorz and if its big enough effect dmg to kill then the game ends before gorz can trigger
- no you cannot go "oh how many summons have you done, oh thats your 5th summon, oh ok" to your opponent because you got nibiru in hand, thats way too direct and would classify as disclosing private info which is against the rules
Love LSV as a guest! hope he comes back!
I mean, it's basically a quick spell you can summon as a monster
Dimension Shifter is truly one of the cards of all time
Just 1 more day if these stupid political ads
ublock origin.
And Brave browser.
@@HighLanderPonyYTim on mobile
@@cyberdarkturtle6971 youtube revanced
I watch yt from Firefox on mobile with ublockorigin xd
Never knew Ghost Ogre could be sent from the field!
I never played this card nor seen it played this way.
Man LSV is damn good at evaluating cards. He picked up on most of the play patterns of all these cards and even when he was wrong it feels like he was right lol.
Would have been cool to see his reaction to the Mulcharmy cards that are coming out right now as a bonus. Being basically the power of Maxx C split into 3 like the Triforce and still being meta defining.
Part of the reason Honest was so good was because of something rarely considered to be relevant in card games, the battle damage dealt to the opponent's life. If you had a 2500 attack monster and the opponent attacked it with a bigger monster expecting to kill it, you'd not only save your monster, but also kill their and inflict 2500 damage. A lot of the time, this meant your opponent was left with an empty board against your monster and was low on life points, letting you end the game the next turn after you summoned one or two more monsters.
There's a bunch of other reasons it was so oppressive, such as nothing being able to respond to it (unlike MtG, almost nothing can respond to an effect during the Damage Step in yugioh), and BLS being a monster than can attack twice, effectively utilizing the attack buff from a single Honest twice, to be able to easily OTK.
Anyone else cimoooooooo should start uploading these as podcasts? It's great to listen to without needing to watch
LSV is too smart for this format, still very entertaining.
Wish you all the best with your twins.
I look forward to the next appearance of LSV in about 1-2 years.
I Wish you and your wife a lot of good things and stay strong you two @lsv ❤
55:29 The game time is a good point. For quite a few tournaments, matches will go past the 45 minute time limit. If the games are interactive, does turn count really matter?