CGB is also pretty clever and brings a lot of energy but if we are talking about card analysis I’m not arguing! I usually don’t comment but was very impressed by this episode
Lsv has by far the most accurate Analysi, but CGB is just a very good entertainer and has very good chemistry with Cimo so I definitely enjoy both of them a lot.
For real. It's always a delight watching him just absolutely nail the entire trajectory of a card's history like that without even playing the game. That's how you truly know he's a game master.
I'm even more impressed he understood Gamma that well. Especially the "drawing Driver" part. A MTG player could easily think that drawing a decently statted vanilla is fine.
I'm a bit sad that we won't have LSV for a while, but I wish him the best with the twins! Also, oh boy, LSV reads the comments! How can we manipulate him into believing something silly? :P
LSV would be an amazing YGO player, that much is obvious. It was also enormously enjoyable to have him as a guest here - hope he will eventually try the game out at some point. Huge thanks to Cimo and LSV for making some of my evenings so much more enjoyable! And congrats to him on the twins!
another difference between mourner and veiler that you didn't touch, is the difference between veiler's "send to gy" and mourner "discard". its quite interesting to remind how this is a lawyer's card game
Yeah Mourner can be used under Shifter, which is relevant, and it would be way more relevant when Maliss and the other deck which i forgot the name become available here.
LSV understands card game mechanics on a level that is quite rare to see and this episode shows that what he can say about card games can extend to other games. Ash Blossom being one of the most popular cards ever but being at 3 isn't dissimilar to competitive Pokemon and Landorus-Therian, it gives stability to the game which is different from making it boring
Lando-T is, like, the perfect analog for ash blossom, down to the fact that if Lando-T gets power crept it's its game proverbial canary in the coal mine. Ash being sub-optimal against snake-eyes exhibited the same concept
LSV is without question a top 5 Magic player of all time and his insanely fast analysis is one of the major reasons why. He's one of the most fun players to watch at a high level in Magic because he just plays so much faster than everyone else but still makes the most optimal decisions.
LSVs analysis on Gorz was incredible the man read the entire play pattern both of and around the card instantly and he did it again for Swift Scarecrow, with the annoying stall decks that play no monsters. the man is so good at this also congratulations to him!
Fun fact: what Cimo described with Nibiru, where you ask your opponent if that was their 5th summon for mind games, that is considered to be cheating by Yugioh’s tournament rules and could get you a warning or even DQ’ed
Not exactly, this is a bit vague since there's an element of "intention" in how infractions are handled in yugioh, but there's no hard rule against asking how many times someone has summoned as it is public information. However, if you actively admit to doing this to misrepresent the gamestate or it's exceedingly obvious that that is your intent (this is where it gets very subjective), judges will take action. It's like the swordsoul token situation, it wasn't illegal to use that token in a non-swordsoul deck, it was illegal to have the intent to mislead with it and if you admit that on a public video like that one player did, konami can take action.
Love that LSV connected effects back to Magic in this video. Something that I thought was a little lacking in the past and I’m so glad he did. Can’t wait to have him back once his life settles down.
tbh pump spell is even kinda wrong - it's a removal spell with some direct damage attached. The magic card equivalent imo would be Ride Down - kills a blocking creature, then gives the creatures blocked by it trample. Kill their dude in combat and deal damage as if your attack had gone face, basically.
I was an avid listener of Limited Resources for years (the only reason I don't listen as much as I used to is because I don't play much Magic these days) so I've known LSV is a fantastic presence on content in general, as well as an excellent evaluator of cards. It's been really cool seeing him here, and seeing him go above and beyond the usual expectations for this sort of cross game content. Reading the comments when it's not his own channel, being genuinely interested in what the game actually is instead of just dismissing it as "game is decided on turn one, game bad" which is what most MTG players assume about YGO, and on top of that his evaluations are insanely good considering he's never played the game. Congrats on the new additions to your family, LSV!
@@cyanideinfusion6760 That discussion was about whether you could choose not to droll after the first search and drop it later in the turn to negate the second search, which you can't do.
This...isnt true. Like you can just look at tournament results, it's still only sees inconsistent play. Every few formats it pops up, but it's absolutely not good vs everything. Hell, even in formats where people THINK it's crazy it often turns out to be not that good. People were suggesting this vs snake eye when it first came out and very quickly learned that was the wrong choice. And even against decks that it's strong against (Infernoble from a few formats ago,) those decks often find ways to play around it and end on a weaker but still reasonable board, just like any other hand trap. If you disagree with me, pull up YGOProDeck and look at tournament results. Droll and Lock Bird might be one of the biggest cards that people misunderstand constantly.
Definitely, though I do think that a lot of recent (especially post pote) decks are pretty at playing around it or at least can beat it often enough that it isn't a consistently powerful as ash, imperm and the bad imperms that are still good enough
Knowing the rules about the Damage Step would really have helped LSV in evaluating Honest. If spell speed two removal can kill the monster targeted by Honest, the card becomes much worse.
Exactly, kind of big context of Damage Step and activation timing is needed to evaluate the card. In magic, combat works such that you'd be able to Mirror Force in response to your opponent activating Honest, so its natural to think the card would be much worse.
@@syrelianAnd quick effects that negate the activation of said effects (one example might be solemn strike or judgement, although those are counter traps rather than quick effects)
Just as some added context for the different handtraps, going over some of the missed information as well as why handtraps are important pros/cons: Honest was extremely powerful also due to the fact that you could use multiple of them on the same attack effectively being extra burn cards and randomly having enough damage to kill the opponent. The bounce effect was also extremely good in simplified gamestates, since going back to the hand protected it from battle and any light monster you drew could never lose a battle since the honest was back in hand. If you had 2 honests, you could also summon 1, attack their biggest thing, drop the second honest, then bounce back the one on board. Effect veiler as well as D.D. Crow also had certain archetype synergies that boosted their powerlevels for specific formats. Blue-eyes decks could search for level 1 light tuners (effect veiler) and Flowandereeze could search for lvl 1 winged-beast (D.D Crow, Flowandereeze is also a deck the revolves around banishing cards) Swift Scarecrow is exactly like fog, same with its brother Battle Fader, used in stall decks like Final Countdown (which ran self destruct button as a safety net) Droll & Lock Bird is a card that feels horrible to play against, there are many decks that simply instantly fold to the card being played. One of the issues with yugioh, is that since 99% of decks can do 1 million things on their first turn, if you get caught with a hand that loses to droll & lock bird, there is simply nothing you can do. There are many non-games that happen with droll in play for both players. Since every card is so extremely valuable (many 1 card combos that can generate you to a +10 board state), droll completely stopping your opponent vs droll not doing anything either auto win you the game (by turn skip) or lose you the game (discard a card for nothing and opponent still made their board). It isnt often that droll hits that goldilocks point in many metas of slowing down enough but not shutting down. The Ghost sister cards are generally all playable depending on the format (except ash blossom which is basically always a 3 of, bar some specific decks) Cherry during BA format, ghost ogre during pendulum formats (and current format), ghost belle is generally ok but not great, mourner is as stated, more effect veilers/imperns, unless your in the asian regions where the card works differently and is much better, and spooky dogwood is a time-cuck card. It is very rarely ever played to survive extra turns Nibiru the primal being IMO is only really interesting when decks need to make the choice of, do i play into it or do i slow down. The issue is the best decks almost always have a way to either negate nibiru's effect or continue playing even if they get nibiru'ed. Its extremely annoying dropping nibiru on a fully commited opponent and then they combo through that effect and still end with their board. Dimension shifter is the bane of every yugioh players existence. It is a turn skip card. 90% of decks RELY on their grave to combo and make plays/have follow up. The card is so powerful that some decks will hurt themselves just so that they can play the card (tenpai dragon) since it is such a destructive force to almost every deck. Hand traps are a cool idea in concept and practice, except when we arrive at modern yugioh. The powercreep making so many 1 card combos powerful essentially forces you to play 15+ handtraps in every deck (there are few exceptions). The handtraps are also not diverse, in any given format, most people will be playing the same handtraps and you see them constantly. The handtraps are also generic enough that they hit EVERY deck in general. Since the most efficient combo you can do is a 1 card combo, and the most efficient answer is a handtrap, every deck essentially races to tightening up to as many handtraps they can run, with as many combo starters they can have and that killllllllllls a good amount of deck building. It creates the same problem people have with old school yugioh where every deck ran all the best power spells (pot of greed, graceful charity, delinquent duo, etc) but with handtraps today. Half your deck is built for you. The other issue with 1 card combos relates to when you talked about dealing with stalling. In yugioh if your opponent has no hand traps, you can EASILY kill 10+ minutes comboing at a reasonable pace with almost all decks. Obviously this isnt stalling since youre playing the game, but you can just kill a ton of time doing it, effectively stalling while playing by the rules. Burn your opponent with 5 minutes left on the clock, then just do random comboing until the clock hits 0 and GG... Last thing LSV spoke about, 'its fine to do a lot of actions as long as 1 player isnt doing like 90% of the actions'. Cimooo made it seem as though both players are taking many actions during both turns. I would argue aside from tear format, the going second player is generally doing almost nothing during their opponents first turn. The taking action difference is like 2/3 actions for turn 2 player (maybe a few handtraps) vs 50+ for the turn 1 player, especially if they can play through the handtraps you present. Handtraps were an interesting design, and are really fun to play with, for a long time you would actively have to decide whether or not they were good enough to include in the main/side etc and vs what matchups. Now things are so fast they are a mandatory include and without them you essentially auto lose the game. Decks have 1 card combos and ways to play through 1/2 even smts 3 handtraps and arrive at their crazy endboard. The handtraps stop certain decks, konami powercreeps the monsters to play through the handtraps, then konami powercreeps the handtraps and they stop the next best thing as well as all the previous good stuff, rinse and repeat.
Congrats LSV I will miss you on the show. Best guest because he really really gets card games. His ability to know Gorz’s mind game immediately is insane.
I am early for once! As soneone whose only memory of Yu-Gi-Oh is from the early era (I only played up to Ritual summon... yea) I am excited to see these cards and guess along with the guests. And LSV is one of my fav xD Edit: Also Congrats to LSV! We will miss you. But glad to at least know your absent is for the joyful occasion.
25:40 Droll&Lockbird is narset, parter of veils static and was used in the exact same way as narset combined with wheel effects but at instant speed. Using a card called trickster reincarnation you could wait for your opponent to search or draw, something very common in Yugioh then fire the reincarnation, bannishing their entire hand and forcing them to draw the same number of cards, but if you chained the Droll & Lockbird they would draw no cards and just loose their entire hand.
Narset is more like Deck lockdown really. The play pattern on droll is a little different, I would almost compare it to an effect like Deafening Silence, although there's no real clean comparison to MTG i dont think
I'm not surprised at all that LSV figured out the Gorz play patterns (low to high, mind games around stopping early), but the fact that he processed all that within half a minute of READING the card? INSANE!
These LSV and CGB collabs are my absolute favorite thing on youtube right now. I hope they never end. And congrats LSV on the new addition to the family! 🎉
@3:33 I played Kuriboh when I was a kid. Not because I ever used the hand trap effect almost ever, but as my "win condition". As in winning local tournaments by orchestrating elaborate scenarios to finish an opponent off with the 300 Atk of the Kuriboh itself. Heck, I even met a future girlfriend when our first encounter was on opposite sides of a table where I slapped her with my Kuriboh.
Man LSV is damn good at evaluating cards. He picked up on most of the play patterns of all these cards and even when he was wrong it feels like he was right lol. Would have been cool to see his reaction to the Mulcharmy cards that are coming out right now as a bonus. Being basically the power of Maxx C split into 3 like the Triforce and still being meta defining.
Came from Rarran and love all these videos. Didnt know lsv but he is the guy. Great content! Also congrats on the twins and wish lsv smooth first few months!
I love Skull Meister, back in the early MD days where Zoo was still basically UDF/Zeus turbo I played the shit out of that deck and I can not tell you how many times I won due to Skull Meister beat down Cx
These Videos with LSV has been great, and Congrats on the Twins LSV been following ya for a very long time, and got to meet ya at some GPs of old. When things settle down, and we get more of these videos I really can't wait for the video of LSV plays Yugioh and Cimo plays MTG with LSV, or some bigger video that has all these players of different games having to play games of the others.
This might sound odd, but one use of Honest's bounce effect is that it is summonable from the deck by Shining Angel and Nova Summoner, so you can, in theory, pull it out of the deck the turn before it is needed.
I remember there was a time in Magic's Pauper format where Mystic Remora was a staple sideboard card for the top deck's mirror match because the deck was built around returning your own cheap non-creature cards from the field to the hand with cards like Kor Skyfisher.
I love the video because one thing that most magic players get wrong about YuGiOh! is that they don't really see interaction besides the player making the most degenerate end boards while going first. Now they get to realize that there is counter play and interaction. Pretty good video.
I really like LSV! Love his analysis, it's so much fun listening to his deductions! Good luck with the twins, may they grow up to be nice and smart people like you are!
0 dislikes on the video as I write this comment and I think it really harkens to how important these videos are just for yu-gi-oh in general. Yugioh notoriously struggles to integrate new players and that is exactly what videos like this do, not just for LSV, but the whole community. Great content and great personalities on these videos, so much love!
As a magic player I had a completely wrong view of the game before these videos. The "games last 2-3 turns" saying really doesnt do the justice since theres so many things going on. I thought it was silly at first that just one card can start a string of game actions that leave you with a giant board, but theres so many ways to interact and the side deck gives so many decision points Found a ton of respect for the game now and love these videos
Thank you for including Kuriboh, because I feel like a lot of people forget that it is the first handtrap and not DD Crow. Also, I was wondering if you'd include the Mulcharmy triforce just to show him that Maxx C was so powerful that they had to break its effect into pieces, which are still quite strong in their own right.
have them try to piece together in chronological order the events through the card art first then grade them on how accurate they are just before going through the lore and story
There are certainly exceptions here or there, but you maybe understated the playrate of Ash Blossom. The times when it isn't a mandatory 3-of have been the exceptions that prove the rule for 7 years straight. It casts an absurdly wide net.
I hope LSV reads this for some lore (non-gameplay) context about the level of mosnters, your level 1 to 2, are about as strong as a common human, you migth be able to take on a fight and win. 3 to 5 are about as strong a highly combat trained human. 6 to 8 are the top of food chain, naturally strong magical beings, erudites in magic, absurdly powerful dragons, knights that surpass the limits of the body, etc, specially the level 8 is as powerful you can get as a mortal being without going into godhood. Level 10 are literal gods, most deities are lv10 (so, 9 are beings in the path to godhood). 12 is reserved for overgods, only epic stuff that surpass divinity are 12, there are creation gods or ultimate beings that can end worlds and realities (and for 11, you can extrapolate their power, but it's also the level with the least mosters). Also, WOW! Congrats LSV! Wonderfull news!
@NovaSaber Yes, if you are familiar with super robot Anime and Tokusatsu, Japanese shinkansen trains are somehow on the powerlevel of gods or instrumental for defeating gods.
As for looking at a card, reading what it does and interpreting it without fully understanding it is another matter. Look at Ghotis for example, it's really complicated to understand what they do by reading them and they sound terrible, but once you begin to understand how they actually work they are honestly just a really stupid deck that gets around alot of what the meta is. They still have to play around the negates like anyother deck, but my first time playing them, having to not interact with the graveyard, and playing on your opponents turn is crazy. I just started with them, but just when I thought I was done after establishing a strong board, it showed up... "Would you like to use the effect of..." Like damn it just keeps going. Banish banish banish... you know... I'll banish your whole board for free, not destroy, not send to the grave, just banish, yeah I just made this level 8 synchro, I'll banish it and one of your cards, oh btw it comes back immediately, but not your card. And the deck counters itself, since when does a deck inherently counter itself in the event of a mirror match? But then you look at something like Kabuzals. A lvl4 normal Dinosaur, does absolutely nothing, just has 1700 attack. Defined an entire format because of a bunny rabbit, and some dragon lizards. Sometimes if a card is just too stupid to make sense, there probably some really dumb card that makes it good. Like White Duston, an utterly useless card, even if you play duston it's garbage. But here comes along a very specific card that has a very specific requirement of a light fiend monster, and here you have this other card that can summon a lvl 1 or 2 normal monster, and white duston just happens to be a lvl1 light fiend normal monster meeting both cards requirements. Is it any good, not really... but there always something stupid that gives a random ass card a purpose.
Some interesting counter-play against Ash Blossom, that some modern archetypes have, is that they will have effects that place their monsters into the Spell & Trap zones. This completely bypasses Ashes' conditions (as does any other card that says "place/set X on your Spell & Trap/ Field zones from your Deck/ GY" etc.). Thought it'd be an interesting thing to point out since Ash is one of the most popular handtraps in our game.
Ghost Sister, for current format, is decent against Tenpai As Cimo mentioned, not getting otk'd can make the whole difference Can help you push through a Dimension Shifter also
I was wondering if Cimo was going to include hand traps whose limitation was highly contextual like Herald of Orange Light, Miscellaneousaurus, and Kelbek the Ancient Vanguard, but I guess LSV was spared this time. lol
My favorite way to think about handtraps when I started playing yugioh was like if mental misstep had several cycles each with different narrow things they could counter before your first turn.
33:07 Freudian slip there with the Rhystic Remora, Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora are in fact separate cards, though both are indeed 2U enchantments that tax your opponent for their actions. RS is more versatile, listening for any spells and staying indefinitely, but only taxing for 1, while MR taxes for 4, but listens for NC specifically and has cumulative upkeep.
Congratulations on the kids LSV but I'm going to miss having him on the channel for a while. He's easily my favorite guest on these series. He's really very quick and knowledgeable at putting the pieces together. So even if he gets the wrong answer, he's always accurate with his analysis and I really am impressed by that
So Glad LSV picked up the difference between a Chain and the Stack. It's such a major difference that no-one else in these videos seems to take note of when evaluating cards
Maybe it's a three-initial thing, but LSV and CGB have been the most enjoyable to watch in this format- they're listening and learning, and building on their knowledge to make informed judgements in the future, not just forgetting everything between videos and rating the cards in isolation. Hope to see him back after he's had some time off for his little Gemini Elves!
27:09 I run cyberdark end dragons, and the whole thing with that is getting cyberdark claw and just getting everything else with that, Droll and lock makes it so most of the time best I can do is get a monster with 2400 atk on the field with no backup support spells/traps.
I think that LSV is such a great guest, but I think that in order for him to evaluate card more accurately, Cimo should explain the concept of "choke point" in combos, I know an MTG guy of LSVs caliber sure understands right away, but it'll help him just piece things together.
I seem to remember LSV being a big proponent of the idea that Extraction effects are massively overrated and not often worth playing for all the reasons expressed in the Ghost Reaper section. Very cool parallel and nice little bit of card game theory. I do think Jester's Cap is the first of these effects though for Magic, even though it's not exactly the same. Ash Blossom is basically Yugioh's Force of Will. Big glue card that often holds the format together. Really good parallels with Legacy/Vintage in this episode as low turn count but high game action count matches. Not everyone likes this sort of gameplay of course, but evidently a lot of people do and I believe Legacy would be much more popular if it wasn't so economically prohibitive to acquire real cards. Figures LSV would love the all-answers episode though.😆
wouldnt really say its a card that holds a format together since its just soemthing that you should generally be mindful of rather then some central or balancing factor but 1 of the things not expanded upon is just exactly how far reaching ash blossom is; yes the 3 clauses in bullet points covers a wide variety of effects that reaches into the deck that there is very little it doesnt cover but because of how ash blossom is worded it can counter cards whose effect doesnt even fit into any of those 3 clauses by simply JUST HAVING an effect that fits into any of those bullet points as thats enough for her since it only requires that that the card or effect which fits any of the 3 criteria is included which drastically expand its already wide coverage
LSV did pretty good though some things to note - hanewata cannot prevent the dmg from paying LP as cost (e.g pyramid of light) or done as a consequences of an effect (e.g soul charge) - you cant drop gorz on the opponent turn 1 going 2nd from going face because turn 1 doesnt allow access to the battle phase, technically you can if they inflict a paltry amount of effect dmg but thats a waste of gorz and if its big enough effect dmg to kill then the game ends before gorz can trigger - no you cannot go "oh how many summons have you done, oh thats your 5th summon, oh ok" to your opponent because you got nibiru in hand, thats way too direct and would classify as disclosing private info which is against the rules
His analysis on Droll was so impressive. Despite not playing himself, thought it was hit-or-miss but identified two common use cases (synchro piles and getting Maxx C’d)
ghost sister and dogwood section reminded me how many games i lose in master duel to time limit when using a new deck that im learning(from thinking on alternate routes and decision makings on the fly + reading enemy cards).
Damn dude LSV killed it hats off I really hope to see him back eventually, schedules permitting! P.S. Cimoooooooo I appreciate the “for the viewers” interjections, a lot of time I’ll be like “oh yeah that was a thing” and it’ll help contextualize whatever is going on.
LSV has been the best guest for this show. I understand the leave, but I'll be super excited when he comes back!
CGB is also pretty clever and brings a lot of energy but if we are talking about card analysis I’m not arguing! I usually don’t comment but was very impressed by this episode
Lsv has by far the most accurate Analysi, but CGB is just a very good entertainer and has very good chemistry with Cimo so I definitely enjoy both of them a lot.
@@timothyvenske6519 Honestly can't stand Covert. LSV is a legend though
Going +2 is crazy! Congrats LSV
Pot of greed influenced him hard.
waiting 9 months for only +2 isnt very optimal imo🙂
@geno1073 you’re greatly over estimating the speed of the current format imo. But we’ll see who’s right when we get some tournament results
LSV channeling that Ancestral Recall energy
@@Ollig999 +2 is nice but the tempo loss afterwards can be pretty devastating
LSV's analysis on Gorz was SPOT ON. He described the mind games and how we used to play around it perfectly. I love that card.
For real. It's always a delight watching him just absolutely nail the entire trajectory of a card's history like that without even playing the game. That's how you truly know he's a game master.
I'm even more impressed he understood Gamma that well. Especially the "drawing Driver" part. A MTG player could easily think that drawing a decently statted vanilla is fine.
I still play around gorz to this day
You can just see from listening to him, that he‘s a professional at card games. His understanding is beyond just mtg, and I really like that about him
@@Inso_yuugen at this point, playing around Gorz is not a strat, it's a lifestyle
I'm a bit sad that we won't have LSV for a while, but I wish him the best with the twins!
Also, oh boy, LSV reads the comments! How can we manipulate him into believing something silly? :P
Probably not by planning this In the comments :D
tell him penguins arent real
@@uuh4yj43wdym penguins were one of the best archetypes
@@uuh4yj43 Convince him the penguin archetype is tier 0.
@@jamaldavis2480 I MEAN have you read Penguin Soldier? It's basically double Compulse. That card is CRAZY.
LSV would be an amazing YGO player, that much is obvious. It was also enormously enjoyable to have him as a guest here - hope he will eventually try the game out at some point. Huge thanks to Cimo and LSV for making some of my evenings so much more enjoyable!
And congrats to him on the twins!
LSV is just a very intelligent and experienced person when it comes to everything TCG.
he will see the prices for tournament and he will say is not worth it.
@@Stayner Well we can hope that he doesn't already have a Switch 🤣
Massive props for having Kuriboh represented as the OG handtrap
Definitely, way too many people skip over it when listing the handtraps.
Something that could be cute if LSV returns is having him evaluate any cards that feature twins
Delinquent Duo, the entire Live Twin archetype, Gemini Elf
Lol that's cool
Princess Curran and Princess Pikeru too maybe
omg please @cimo do this.
another difference between mourner and veiler that you didn't touch, is the difference between veiler's "send to gy" and mourner "discard". its quite interesting to remind how this is a lawyer's card game
Yeah Mourner can be used under Shifter, which is relevant, and it would be way more relevant when Maliss and the other deck which i forgot the name become available here.
@@Ms666slayer I need Shifter to be limited in Maliss format
@@Ms666slayer ryzeal, but yeah that interaction was pretty important in kashtira format
Love seeing LSV's experience of learning about Yugioh! And congrats to him on the twins :D
LSV understands card game mechanics on a level that is quite rare to see and this episode shows that what he can say about card games can extend to other games. Ash Blossom being one of the most popular cards ever but being at 3 isn't dissimilar to competitive Pokemon and Landorus-Therian, it gives stability to the game which is different from making it boring
Lando-T is, like, the perfect analog for ash blossom, down to the fact that if Lando-T gets power crept it's its game proverbial canary in the coal mine. Ash being sub-optimal against snake-eyes exhibited the same concept
He played part in making the Eternal ccg so yeah, he knows his stuff to some extent.
I wonder what's the Incineroar of ygo... Assuming most things are legal/not banned. My guess is Maxx C since it supports your other stuff the best
LSV is without question a top 5 Magic player of all time and his insanely fast analysis is one of the major reasons why. He's one of the most fun players to watch at a high level in Magic because he just plays so much faster than everyone else but still makes the most optimal decisions.
LSVs analysis on Gorz was incredible
the man read the entire play pattern both of and around the card instantly
and he did it again for Swift Scarecrow, with the annoying stall decks that play no monsters.
the man is so good at this
also congratulations to him!
LSV has some exceptional reading comprehension. Can't wait for him to react to Small World.
The opposite of Rarran, I like him as a guy but his reading comprehension sometimes drives me up the wall.
Fun fact: what Cimo described with Nibiru, where you ask your opponent if that was their 5th summon for mind games, that is considered to be cheating by Yugioh’s tournament rules and could get you a warning or even DQ’ed
Not exactly, this is a bit vague since there's an element of "intention" in how infractions are handled in yugioh, but there's no hard rule against asking how many times someone has summoned as it is public information. However, if you actively admit to doing this to misrepresent the gamestate or it's exceedingly obvious that that is your intent (this is where it gets very subjective), judges will take action.
It's like the swordsoul token situation, it wasn't illegal to use that token in a non-swordsoul deck, it was illegal to have the intent to mislead with it and if you admit that on a public video like that one player did, konami can take action.
Love that LSV connected effects back to Magic in this video. Something that I thought was a little lacking in the past and I’m so glad he did. Can’t wait to have him back once his life settles down.
LSV looking at the comments is awesome, it shows he's genuinely intrigued by the game design.
That's awesome for LSV, happy for him on the twins.
I will miss his insight on these cards, it's really cool to see. Can't wait for him to return.
Honest being Damage Step only might've also been relevent for LSV, saying it's a "Pump spell with Split Second" makes it sound a LOT better.
tbh pump spell is even kinda wrong - it's a removal spell with some direct damage attached.
The magic card equivalent imo would be Ride Down - kills a blocking creature, then gives the creatures blocked by it trample. Kill their dude in combat and deal damage as if your attack had gone face, basically.
I was an avid listener of Limited Resources for years (the only reason I don't listen as much as I used to is because I don't play much Magic these days) so I've known LSV is a fantastic presence on content in general, as well as an excellent evaluator of cards. It's been really cool seeing him here, and seeing him go above and beyond the usual expectations for this sort of cross game content. Reading the comments when it's not his own channel, being genuinely interested in what the game actually is instead of just dismissing it as "game is decided on turn one, game bad" which is what most MTG players assume about YGO, and on top of that his evaluations are insanely good considering he's never played the game.
Congrats on the new additions to your family, LSV!
Cimooo missed that Droll aged really well and now hits basically every deck.
He also missed that you very much can "gotcha" your opponent with it. It's the disturbance strategy combo
@@cyanideinfusion6760 That discussion was about whether you could choose not to droll after the first search and drop it later in the turn to negate the second search, which you can't do.
@@cyanideinfusion6760It's not a "gotcha," but more like a "no further shall you go!"
This...isnt true. Like you can just look at tournament results, it's still only sees inconsistent play. Every few formats it pops up, but it's absolutely not good vs everything. Hell, even in formats where people THINK it's crazy it often turns out to be not that good. People were suggesting this vs snake eye when it first came out and very quickly learned that was the wrong choice. And even against decks that it's strong against (Infernoble from a few formats ago,) those decks often find ways to play around it and end on a weaker but still reasonable board, just like any other hand trap.
If you disagree with me, pull up YGOProDeck and look at tournament results. Droll and Lock Bird might be one of the biggest cards that people misunderstand constantly.
Definitely, though I do think that a lot of recent (especially post pote) decks are pretty at playing around it
or at least can beat it often enough that it isn't a consistently powerful as ash, imperm and the bad imperms that are still good enough
Knowing the rules about the Damage Step would really have helped LSV in evaluating Honest. If spell speed two removal can kill the monster targeted by Honest, the card becomes much worse.
Exactly, kind of big context of Damage Step and activation timing is needed to evaluate the card. In magic, combat works such that you'd be able to Mirror Force in response to your opponent activating Honest, so its natural to think the card would be much worse.
@@brokeDSUIn Yu-Gi-Oh, only effects that change atk and/or def can be activated in the damage step, right?
@@laytonjr6601 Just about, a few other exceptions exist, but generally its only stat modifiers or things that say "during the damage step"
@@syrelianAnd quick effects that negate the activation of said effects (one example might be solemn strike or judgement, although those are counter traps rather than quick effects)
@@aether6293 to be fair, counter traps are a higher spell speed than quick effects, and are almost always activate-able, context notwithstanding
Just as some added context for the different handtraps, going over some of the missed information as well as why handtraps are important pros/cons:
Honest was extremely powerful also due to the fact that you could use multiple of them on the same attack effectively being extra burn cards and randomly having enough damage to kill the opponent. The bounce effect was also extremely good in simplified gamestates, since going back to the hand protected it from battle and any light monster you drew could never lose a battle since the honest was back in hand. If you had 2 honests, you could also summon 1, attack their biggest thing, drop the second honest, then bounce back the one on board.
Effect veiler as well as D.D. Crow also had certain archetype synergies that boosted their powerlevels for specific formats. Blue-eyes decks could search for level 1 light tuners (effect veiler) and Flowandereeze could search for lvl 1 winged-beast (D.D Crow, Flowandereeze is also a deck the revolves around banishing cards)
Swift Scarecrow is exactly like fog, same with its brother Battle Fader, used in stall decks like Final Countdown (which ran self destruct button as a safety net)
Droll & Lock Bird is a card that feels horrible to play against, there are many decks that simply instantly fold to the card being played. One of the issues with yugioh, is that since 99% of decks can do 1 million things on their first turn, if you get caught with a hand that loses to droll & lock bird, there is simply nothing you can do. There are many non-games that happen with droll in play for both players. Since every card is so extremely valuable (many 1 card combos that can generate you to a +10 board state), droll completely stopping your opponent vs droll not doing anything either auto win you the game (by turn skip) or lose you the game (discard a card for nothing and opponent still made their board). It isnt often that droll hits that goldilocks point in many metas of slowing down enough but not shutting down.
The Ghost sister cards are generally all playable depending on the format (except ash blossom which is basically always a 3 of, bar some specific decks) Cherry during BA format, ghost ogre during pendulum formats (and current format), ghost belle is generally ok but not great, mourner is as stated, more effect veilers/imperns, unless your in the asian regions where the card works differently and is much better, and spooky dogwood is a time-cuck card. It is very rarely ever played to survive extra turns
Nibiru the primal being IMO is only really interesting when decks need to make the choice of, do i play into it or do i slow down. The issue is the best decks almost always have a way to either negate nibiru's effect or continue playing even if they get nibiru'ed. Its extremely annoying dropping nibiru on a fully commited opponent and then they combo through that effect and still end with their board.
Dimension shifter is the bane of every yugioh players existence. It is a turn skip card. 90% of decks RELY on their grave to combo and make plays/have follow up. The card is so powerful that some decks will hurt themselves just so that they can play the card (tenpai dragon) since it is such a destructive force to almost every deck.
Hand traps are a cool idea in concept and practice, except when we arrive at modern yugioh. The powercreep making so many 1 card combos powerful essentially forces you to play 15+ handtraps in every deck (there are few exceptions). The handtraps are also not diverse, in any given format, most people will be playing the same handtraps and you see them constantly. The handtraps are also generic enough that they hit EVERY deck in general. Since the most efficient combo you can do is a 1 card combo, and the most efficient answer is a handtrap, every deck essentially races to tightening up to as many handtraps they can run, with as many combo starters they can have and that killllllllllls a good amount of deck building. It creates the same problem people have with old school yugioh where every deck ran all the best power spells (pot of greed, graceful charity, delinquent duo, etc) but with handtraps today. Half your deck is built for you.
The other issue with 1 card combos relates to when you talked about dealing with stalling. In yugioh if your opponent has no hand traps, you can EASILY kill 10+ minutes comboing at a reasonable pace with almost all decks. Obviously this isnt stalling since youre playing the game, but you can just kill a ton of time doing it, effectively stalling while playing by the rules. Burn your opponent with 5 minutes left on the clock, then just do random comboing until the clock hits 0 and GG...
Last thing LSV spoke about, 'its fine to do a lot of actions as long as 1 player isnt doing like 90% of the actions'. Cimooo made it seem as though both players are taking many actions during both turns. I would argue aside from tear format, the going second player is generally doing almost nothing during their opponents first turn. The taking action difference is like 2/3 actions for turn 2 player (maybe a few handtraps) vs 50+ for the turn 1 player, especially if they can play through the handtraps you present.
Handtraps were an interesting design, and are really fun to play with, for a long time you would actively have to decide whether or not they were good enough to include in the main/side etc and vs what matchups. Now things are so fast they are a mandatory include and without them you essentially auto lose the game. Decks have 1 card combos and ways to play through 1/2 even smts 3 handtraps and arrive at their crazy endboard. The handtraps stop certain decks, konami powercreeps the monsters to play through the handtraps, then konami powercreeps the handtraps and they stop the next best thing as well as all the previous good stuff, rinse and repeat.
I love the LSV videos because they feel so collaborative. Like Cimo isnt trying to trick him so much as just sharing interesting cards.
Yes! I get this exact same vibe, im glad you put it into words
Congrats LSV I will miss you on the show. Best guest because he really really gets card games. His ability to know Gorz’s mind game immediately is insane.
I am early for once! As soneone whose only memory of Yu-Gi-Oh is from the early era (I only played up to Ritual summon... yea) I am excited to see these cards and guess along with the guests. And LSV is one of my fav xD
Edit: Also Congrats to LSV! We will miss you. But glad to at least know your absent is for the joyful occasion.
25:40 Droll&Lockbird is narset, parter of veils static and was used in the exact same way as narset combined with wheel effects but at instant speed. Using a card called trickster reincarnation you could wait for your opponent to search or draw, something very common in Yugioh then fire the reincarnation, bannishing their entire hand and forcing them to draw the same number of cards, but if you chained the Droll & Lockbird they would draw no cards and just loose their entire hand.
Narset is more like Deck lockdown really. The play pattern on droll is a little different, I would almost compare it to an effect like Deafening Silence, although there's no real clean comparison to MTG i dont think
LSV is my favorite for these! he does great insight
Ghost reaper, as far as I can remember, has been good against exactly three decks, BA, ABC, and early link era Spyral.
I'm not surprised at all that LSV figured out the Gorz play patterns (low to high, mind games around stopping early), but the fact that he processed all that within half a minute of READING the card? INSANE!
These LSV and CGB collabs are my absolute favorite thing on youtube right now. I hope they never end. And congrats LSV on the new addition to the family! 🎉
@3:33 I played Kuriboh when I was a kid. Not because I ever used the hand trap effect almost ever, but as my "win condition". As in winning local tournaments by orchestrating elaborate scenarios to finish an opponent off with the 300 Atk of the Kuriboh itself. Heck, I even met a future girlfriend when our first encounter was on opposite sides of a table where I slapped her with my Kuriboh.
Congrats on your news LSV been a pleasure to here your soothing comintary on cards and hopefully you had fun learning our game
Man LSV is damn good at evaluating cards. He picked up on most of the play patterns of all these cards and even when he was wrong it feels like he was right lol.
Would have been cool to see his reaction to the Mulcharmy cards that are coming out right now as a bonus. Being basically the power of Maxx C split into 3 like the Triforce and still being meta defining.
I can't believe Cimo would do Tachyon Transmigration like that, came way before Imperm.
Typhoon too i believe
Came from Rarran and love all these videos. Didnt know lsv but he is the guy. Great content!
Also congrats on the twins and wish lsv smooth first few months!
I love Skull Meister, back in the early MD days where Zoo was still basically UDF/Zeus turbo I played the shit out of that deck and I can not tell you how many times I won due to Skull Meister beat down Cx
Congrats to LSV for having twins! He's been amazing evaluating all the cards and he's been the most enjoyable and insightful guest.
Aww No LSV?! But Twins! Congrats!
These Videos with LSV has been great, and Congrats on the Twins LSV been following ya for a very long time, and got to meet ya at some GPs of old. When things settle down, and we get more of these videos I really can't wait for the video of LSV plays Yugioh and Cimo plays MTG with LSV, or some bigger video that has all these players of different games having to play games of the others.
This might sound odd, but one use of Honest's bounce effect is that it is summonable from the deck by Shining Angel and Nova Summoner, so you can, in theory, pull it out of the deck the turn before it is needed.
LSV has been really one of the best guests, if not the best. His analysis are always amazing! Im so happy for him and his newborns twins
just today i watched the last videos with LSV(couldn't bother myself to work, so yeah). I just love this guy
I remember there was a time in Magic's Pauper format where Mystic Remora was a staple sideboard card for the top deck's mirror match because the deck was built around returning your own cheap non-creature cards from the field to the hand with cards like Kor Skyfisher.
I love the video because one thing that most magic players get wrong about YuGiOh! is that they don't really see interaction besides the player making the most degenerate end boards while going first. Now they get to realize that there is counter play and interaction. Pretty good video.
I really like LSV! Love his analysis, it's so much fun listening to his deductions! Good luck with the twins, may they grow up to be nice and smart people like you are!
Congrats on the twins! We love to have you here but so happy for you!
Cimo forgot to mention how many times players forget the imper colum and play in it. The reactions are always funny
Makes a lot of sense to do this after synchros since so many handtraps are tuners for some reason
the reason being extra utility.
Because early on handtraps werent really used and had weak stats like effect veiler (which was also used in the anime tho)
Dingus Egg and guest. Perfect Talk Show
0 dislikes on the video as I write this comment and I think it really harkens to how important these videos are just for yu-gi-oh in general. Yugioh notoriously struggles to integrate new players and that is exactly what videos like this do, not just for LSV, but the whole community. Great content and great personalities on these videos, so much love!
As a magic player I had a completely wrong view of the game before these videos.
The "games last 2-3 turns" saying really doesnt do the justice since theres so many things going on.
I thought it was silly at first that just one card can start a string of game actions that leave you with a giant board, but theres so many ways to interact and the side deck gives so many decision points
Found a ton of respect for the game now and love these videos
I love this guy, congrats to him and his family, but can't wait for his return!
Thank you for including Kuriboh, because I feel like a lot of people forget that it is the first handtrap and not DD Crow.
Also, I was wondering if you'd include the Mulcharmy triforce just to show him that Maxx C was so powerful that they had to break its effect into pieces, which are still quite strong in their own right.
I love the LSV episodes. Very sad that there wont be another one in the near future but i wish him and his family all the best❤
Heres something that could be fun to have people react to. The lore of the cards and the stores they tell.
have them try to piece together in chronological order the events through the card art first then grade them on how accurate they are just before going through the lore and story
For Droll & Lock bird, they didn't really even touch on searching cards. LSV & cimo just kept mentioning "draw" effects, not "add"
They briefly mentioned it with LSV mentioning that it makes you only be able to tutor once
There are certainly exceptions here or there, but you maybe understated the playrate of Ash Blossom.
The times when it isn't a mandatory 3-of have been the exceptions that prove the rule for 7 years straight. It casts an absurdly wide net.
cant wait till lsv comes back again, i wanna see him rate more of the crazy OP boss monsters
Congratulations to you and your wife. Wishing you all the best.
I hope LSV reads this for some lore (non-gameplay) context about the level of mosnters, your level 1 to 2, are about as strong as a common human, you migth be able to take on a fight and win. 3 to 5 are about as strong a highly combat trained human. 6 to 8 are the top of food chain, naturally strong magical beings, erudites in magic, absurdly powerful dragons, knights that surpass the limits of the body, etc, specially the level 8 is as powerful you can get as a mortal being without going into godhood. Level 10 are literal gods, most deities are lv10 (so, 9 are beings in the path to godhood). 12 is reserved for overgods, only epic stuff that surpass divinity are 12, there are creation gods or ultimate beings that can end worlds and realities (and for 11, you can extrapolate their power, but it's also the level with the least mosters).
Also, WOW! Congrats LSV! Wonderfull news!
The literal god Heavy Freight Train Derricrane.
@NovaSaber Yes, if you are familiar with super robot Anime and Tokusatsu, Japanese shinkansen trains are somehow on the powerlevel of gods or instrumental for defeating gods.
glad to see lsv finally get to witness the hero endboard
As for looking at a card, reading what it does and interpreting it without fully understanding it is another matter. Look at Ghotis for example, it's really complicated to understand what they do by reading them and they sound terrible, but once you begin to understand how they actually work they are honestly just a really stupid deck that gets around alot of what the meta is. They still have to play around the negates like anyother deck, but my first time playing them, having to not interact with the graveyard, and playing on your opponents turn is crazy. I just started with them, but just when I thought I was done after establishing a strong board, it showed up... "Would you like to use the effect of..." Like damn it just keeps going. Banish banish banish... you know... I'll banish your whole board for free, not destroy, not send to the grave, just banish, yeah I just made this level 8 synchro, I'll banish it and one of your cards, oh btw it comes back immediately, but not your card. And the deck counters itself, since when does a deck inherently counter itself in the event of a mirror match?
But then you look at something like Kabuzals. A lvl4 normal Dinosaur, does absolutely nothing, just has 1700 attack. Defined an entire format because of a bunny rabbit, and some dragon lizards. Sometimes if a card is just too stupid to make sense, there probably some really dumb card that makes it good. Like White Duston, an utterly useless card, even if you play duston it's garbage. But here comes along a very specific card that has a very specific requirement of a light fiend monster, and here you have this other card that can summon a lvl 1 or 2 normal monster, and white duston just happens to be a lvl1 light fiend normal monster meeting both cards requirements. Is it any good, not really... but there always something stupid that gives a random ass card a purpose.
Congrats LSV on the twins. Good luck with them.
Really happy to see LSV, he makes such cool remarks
Some interesting counter-play against Ash Blossom, that some modern archetypes have, is that they will have effects that place their monsters into the Spell & Trap zones. This completely bypasses Ashes' conditions (as does any other card that says "place/set X on your Spell & Trap/ Field zones from your Deck/ GY" etc.). Thought it'd be an interesting thing to point out since Ash is one of the most popular handtraps in our game.
Ghost Sister, for current format, is decent against Tenpai
As Cimo mentioned, not getting otk'd can make the whole difference
Can help you push through a Dimension Shifter also
gonna miss this guy, hope he and his family are healthy and have an amazing time
I was wondering if Cimo was going to include hand traps whose limitation was highly contextual like Herald of Orange Light, Miscellaneousaurus, and Kelbek the Ancient Vanguard, but I guess LSV was spared this time. lol
Starting with Kuriboh gave me the Idea, maybe have one of your Guests guess if a Card lead to become an Archetype
My favorite way to think about handtraps when I started playing yugioh was like if mental misstep had several cycles each with different narrow things they could counter before your first turn.
LSV just innately understanding Gorz order is really cool
Grats on the twins LSV! Hope everything goes well and everyone is healthy!
Would love to see an addendum/part 2 with Called by the Grave, Crossout Designator, the Bystials, Mulcharmies, Dominus Purge/Impulse
This series is Goated, love all the guests!
Awww! Gl with the new double addition to your family lsv!!!
I love gorz and watching him perfectly analyze that card on the first read was amazing to watch.
Gorz, like Imperm, changing the way people play forever. Like MaRo describing the mechanical nature of Miracle.
33:07 Freudian slip there with the Rhystic Remora, Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora are in fact separate cards, though both are indeed 2U enchantments that tax your opponent for their actions. RS is more versatile, listening for any spells and staying indefinitely, but only taxing for 1, while MR taxes for 4, but listens for NC specifically and has cumulative upkeep.
"Graviton Cannon"
Somebody please jot down THAT name for new card.
It's a Warhammer 40k thing i think, so probably trademarked!
@@Triforce9426 I mean that is essentially what Wave Motion Cannon is
LSV Best guest. You got my Sub
Huge huge congrats for you LSV!!
Congratulations on the kids LSV but I'm going to miss having him on the channel for a while. He's easily my favorite guest on these series. He's really very quick and knowledgeable at putting the pieces together. So even if he gets the wrong answer, he's always accurate with his analysis and I really am impressed by that
It's cool to see Luis again someone that I have known about in the competitive mtg scene for a long time. These are fun to watch!
Showing LSV Crossout Designator as the final card would’ve been sick. Now that he’s seen the cards it hits
So Glad LSV picked up the difference between a Chain and the Stack. It's such a major difference that no-one else in these videos seems to take note of when evaluating cards
Maybe it's a three-initial thing, but LSV and CGB have been the most enjoyable to watch in this format- they're listening and learning, and building on their knowledge to make informed judgements in the future, not just forgetting everything between videos and rating the cards in isolation.
Hope to see him back after he's had some time off for his little Gemini Elves!
As a Cyber Dragon player, congrats on LSV for fusion summoning Cyber Twin Dragons!
can never forgive konami the fact that shifter is legal while kitkallos is banned
27:09 I run cyberdark end dragons, and the whole thing with that is getting cyberdark claw and just getting everything else with that, Droll and lock makes it so most of the time best I can do is get a monster with 2400 atk on the field with no backup support spells/traps.
I think that LSV is such a great guest, but I think that in order for him to evaluate card more accurately, Cimo should explain the concept of "choke point" in combos, I know an MTG guy of LSVs caliber sure understands right away, but it'll help him just piece things together.
Congrats to LSV on the twins and he was a great gues, hope to see him back
I seem to remember LSV being a big proponent of the idea that Extraction effects are massively overrated and not often worth playing for all the reasons expressed in the Ghost Reaper section. Very cool parallel and nice little bit of card game theory. I do think Jester's Cap is the first of these effects though for Magic, even though it's not exactly the same.
Ash Blossom is basically Yugioh's Force of Will. Big glue card that often holds the format together. Really good parallels with Legacy/Vintage in this episode as low turn count but high game action count matches. Not everyone likes this sort of gameplay of course, but evidently a lot of people do and I believe Legacy would be much more popular if it wasn't so economically prohibitive to acquire real cards.
Figures LSV would love the all-answers episode though.😆
wouldnt really say its a card that holds a format together since its just soemthing that you should generally be mindful of rather then some central or balancing factor but 1 of the things not expanded upon is just exactly how far reaching ash blossom is; yes the 3 clauses in bullet points covers a wide variety of effects that reaches into the deck that there is very little it doesnt cover but because of how ash blossom is worded it can counter cards whose effect doesnt even fit into any of those 3 clauses by simply JUST HAVING an effect that fits into any of those bullet points as thats enough for her since it only requires that that the card or effect which fits any of the 3 criteria is included which drastically expand its already wide coverage
LSV did pretty good though some things to note
- hanewata cannot prevent the dmg from paying LP as cost (e.g pyramid of light) or done as a consequences of an effect (e.g soul charge)
- you cant drop gorz on the opponent turn 1 going 2nd from going face because turn 1 doesnt allow access to the battle phase, technically you can if they inflict a paltry amount of effect dmg but thats a waste of gorz and if its big enough effect dmg to kill then the game ends before gorz can trigger
- no you cannot go "oh how many summons have you done, oh thats your 5th summon, oh ok" to your opponent because you got nibiru in hand, thats way too direct and would classify as disclosing private info which is against the rules
His analysis on Droll was so impressive. Despite not playing himself, thought it was hit-or-miss but identified two common use cases (synchro piles and getting Maxx C’d)
MTG Convert...
D.D Crow.
Cycle : 0 Generic (Exile 1 target card in an opponent's GY).
Faerie macabre already exists
@@pro711200yeah I got a open tournament pack from shadowmoor and saw faerie macabre and say to my friends "hey DD crow on steroids!"
@@pro711200Cycling has support so it is different from discarding. Also cycling is closer to the mechanic of hand traps from YGO.
ghost sister and dogwood section reminded me how many games i lose in master duel to time limit when using a new deck that im learning(from thinking on alternate routes and decision makings on the fly + reading enemy cards).
Damn dude LSV killed it hats off I really hope to see him back eventually, schedules permitting!
P.S. Cimoooooooo I appreciate the “for the viewers” interjections, a lot of time I’ll be like “oh yeah that was a thing” and it’ll help contextualize whatever is going on.
I got double dimension shifter'd in Master Duel right as you started talking about it. impeccable timing
Congrats LSV! Absolutely my favourite guest for these.
Cimooo with rarran fun happy happy silly
Cimooo with cbg mild competitive still silly
Cimoo with lsv analysis mode engaged
Would have liked to see LSV’s reaction to the Mulcharmies as “fixed” Maxx Cs
Activate Dog Water. Time in round. GG