I love your videos man I watch a lot of American bow RUclipsrs, but they're way too much hunting-macho kind of guys for me. You give me your honest opinion and I appreciate that. I hope your business is doing well and you're happy in life.
Sigh. I would have needed this video a few weeks ago 😂 I added about as much weight to my PSE Supra as you have on the focus. It was perfectly balanced and felt great while shooting. But after two weeks, I suddenly felt a sharp pain in my bow shoulder and couldn’t raise my arm anymore. Turns out, the set up was too heavy (even though it didn’t feel that way to me) and my tendon got inflamed. Now I have to take a break from shooting for several weeks until everything is healed, and then start over with MUCH less weight. So, in addition to making sure that you can tolerate the overall weight of the bow, I’d also say build up to that weight VERY slowly. Like, force yourself to not add too much weight right away but build it up over months to give your tendons time to adjust. Building up muscle is easy, but tendons are just super fragile. Cheers and thanks for another great video. Julia
Hi Julia - sorry to hear - I did supplements to help the healing, but you might need to do weights to build up. It takes time and the results are not instant but gradually work.
Active grip (single side bar) vs Passive grip (v-bars) I shot v-bars for a few months and found the bow was easier to aim on target and keep level, but was very sensitive to inconsistencies in my form as well as wind, so I was less accurate. I found this to be, in my experience, because the bow was balanced and it required little input from my grip. I went back to a single back bar and purposely set it up to be unbalanced and leaning left. This required me to increase side pressure from my bow hand to keep the sight level. This made my bow much more stable and less sensitive to wind drift and minor inconsistencies in my form. It allows the bow to be just as stable as the v bars but cuts a ton of mass weight. It requires more work from my bow hand, but my accuracy is significantly improved. As to how much weight, it is totally personal.
I have shot both VBar and single on the same bow the Xpression last year - one Vbar and one Side bar - I shot the same scores. I note that Reo Wilde does not balance his bow and creates torque. I have tried this and I did have success with it but my body hurt to much.
Haven't shot in a while but looking into getting back into it this fall. I had 2 back surgeries the last one being 10 years ago. Too much stabilizer weight definately aggravated my back, especially the front weight which required me to put more back weight on the bow to balance it. I noticed that after your shot the bow still wanted to tip forward. My opinion is to take some weight off the front stabilizer so you don't have to grab the bow immediately after the shot. Although the bow aims more steadily with the extra weight and the arrow is gone way before you can influence the shot with hand movement . Having to grab the bow after each shot will tire out the forearm muscles. If the bow is balanced properly it shoild stay level back to front and break toward the target without tipping forward. Many years ago it was normal for the front stabilizer weight to drag the front of tbe bow down after the shot to get the bow out of the way of tbe arrow. Now I'm showing my age! My bow hand would get tired but I accepted tbat as normal. After back bars which are properly weighted I almost never feel that same hand fatigue. My opinion is to decrease the front weight by a bit with corresponding decreases in the back weight until you can shoot without fatiguing . Fatigue is where you are headed if you keep the weight you currently have on the stabilizers now. Then add a little weight at a time until you get the magic set up. 9 and a quarter pounds is alot to start with. I noticed the minor form breakdown as you shot. You should be able to shoot with the same form from the first arrow to the last arrow. I'm not against heavy stabilizer weight but it should be worked up slowly. A perfectly balanced bow feels lighter in the hand and will pull less in the lower back as you shoot. And as always sometimes less is more! Just my 2 cents!
No doubt that the Supra Focus likes more out front & with a slight front balance bias setup . After experimentation, no way would I shoot with all that weight . Mine is set up with about half that front & same weight rearwards on a 12" rod. Cable stops set at max letoff. The deflex riser does offer that benefit of using a heavier front end stabiliser weight, yet a comfortable lighter weight over all, achieves a nice hold & reduces lateral shots. Interestingly these bows use the same cam, it's that slight difference in riser geometry which needs consideration. The shorter ATA Perform 3D would be an interesting comparison.
I'm in accord with b tamp, that second cam angle is nice. Keep it. Last week took the long Doinker's off and put stubby BeeStingers on for 3D. About the same weight out front, and I only use the back bar to level the bow in my hand, so it runs a few ounces lighter. Still tinkering.
Top American archer John Dudley recommends form and a dynamic shot over added weight to the stabilisers. If weight required he suggestion is to add it to the riser and not the stabilisers. Stabilisers obviously require a few weights to reduce torque and to counter balance the weight of the site. The concern is mainly that its harder to maintain proper form with excessive amounts of weight. Also even if an archer feel that they can manage the mass weight they are still causing potential front shoulder damage and as you said also lower back to mention just a few areas of potential injury. And theirs obviously the need to be able to keep shooting the bow all day and if a competing archery possibly all day over a number of days so fatigue over balance and hold has to be balanced with each other. Personaly as a compound archer in UK i often shoot in wind and the fact is more weight helps with the aim. But its also far more tiring continualy fighting the wind even more so with the added weights
I would say most top archers - I have not seen Johns setup for target - but most are shooting 21 oz out the front. It is very rare for people to shoot light weight.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale yes thats correct. It seems to be a current trend/fashion. But whether long term its good for their body time will tell. Issue is people see what the pros do and copy them. Your video wisely encouraged not to over weight the stabs..
I wanted the NXT 35 but found the 31 heavy for 5'4" DL-26"ish me. I bought the NXT31 (using my stimulus check) and "now" on budget I have added a 2.5' threaded rod to my 8" stabilizer using coupling nuts. I have also added a v-bar bracket (permenant) and a V-BAR using another threaded rod will absorbers and counter weights. My NXT 31's aim has steaded dramatically although currently I am taking more breaks and fewer shots as I adjust to the weight.
Just added 12 ounces to my target bow a couple days ago. So far I feel like its more stable but I haven't seen a increase in my scores yet. I have shot pretty light for the past several years. Hoping it will help me out in time.
I shoot just as well if not better with a Bow Hunter setup with just a 12" setup. It shows up flaws on my form but they can now be worked on. You really do not need tons of weight, it's all about balance, unless you shoot 100's of arrows a week (I don't!).
Are you still shooting that front heavy? I tried it But Im experiencing a tendency for the bow to drop to much during longholds... so going back to a more neutral bow. Good video!
I just purchased a PSE Ferocity. I love the bow. It has a smooth draw cycle, low if any vibration in the hand, decent speed, and it’s very light. My only problem is it’s more challenging to hold the bow steady on a distances over 30 yards. I have the stabilizer that came with the RTS package. Would it be worth looking into a different/heavier stabilizer to keep the bow from moving around a lot or will more time with the bow solve my problem? Your video review on the Ferocity convinced me to purchase the bow. Keep up the good reviews. 👍🏻
I purchased a Ferocity some while ago, too. Reason was, my Phenom was just too heavy to carry through the 3D parcours. Results dropped after about half of the targets, due to fatique of my bow arm. I have the RTS package too, and get along quite well with the included stabilizer. The Ferocity is definitely lighter and more susceptible to wind, I experienced that as well. But adding weight is not really an option for me. And most 3D targets are in the woods, somewhat shielded from winds. On the greater target distances (70/90m), I'm definitely better with the heavier Phenom. But on the 3D distances (up to 60 yards) and my "confident hunting distance" (about 40 yards), the Ferocity serves me better.
why not stabilize the bow with posture and biomechanics rather than massive weights ? and why not make the riser have more mass in general for stability ? adding a longer stabiliser with a lot of weights creates a long fulcrum and in my experience it makes it difficult to get the sight in the x due to its lower position than the arrow and bow arm so basically I have to aim so far down that the bow drops out of the power line , and once you go below the target we know the shoot is ruined , even pivoting has to exceed 5 degrees with is enough to miss the x and you don't tip a construction crane. and how does a tension activated release work if the mass of the bow is greater than the let off (holding pounds) ?
furthermore there is the subject of dropping arrows, (low hits)if using a blade rest or fallaway would not the path of the arrow be decided the moment the string is released due to the laws of newton ? the arrow pushes of the front nolde as compressed due to inertia then the blade bends and(or) the rest fall leaving the arrow path free. is the arrow still on the string so the angel of the dropping bow arm have time to misdirect the arrow as the string accelerates and that the human motion of release is faster than the bow ? if the path of the arrow is decided at the moment of release the movement of the bow should in theory be nullified by newton's 3rd law
@@mortenjacobsen5673 wow.... Scientific response. If point of aim ie pin drops occasionaly from the gold to red id simply remove some mass weight from front of stabiliser or add a fraction to the rear stabiliser. I was experimenting with this myself today and found it to be more consistent and more forgiving.
I have begun experimenting with rear weights , but if compounds are that accurate why even need stabilisers and weights and what good is a center shot bow when its canceled by he inherent transverse angel induced by human anatomy. I see a lot of compound archers holding there bows out from the chest and leaning there head into anchor or on to the string adapting to the bow rather the bow adapting to them
I'm just getting into target archery, so explain it like i'm 5. It seems to me that if you have for example, 20 oz on the front and 10oz on the rear, can't you get the same balance by just putting 10 oz on the front, with a 20 oz overall lighter rig? Wouldn't an overall lighter rig be easier to hold for a day of shooting?
The same applies - but for hunting you don't need the pin point accuracy because you are shooting closer, so most hunters will shoot 10" with 2-4oz at the front, Some are now adding a rear to balance the bow.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale thank you for that I made my own stabilizer it's about 10" I seem to shoot way better at 40 50 yards. But it's not as quiet as I'd like but love the videos keep it up.
The opposite though is prefered in target.... Longer ATA is harder to torque. Also the human body holding the bow is already a big sail for the wind. No perfect solution when in the wind.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love your videos man I watch a lot of American bow RUclipsrs, but they're way too much hunting-macho kind of guys for me. You give me your honest opinion and I appreciate that. I hope your business is doing well and you're happy in life.
You never fail to provide us with very valuable informations! Thanks a lot!
Sigh. I would have needed this video a few weeks ago 😂 I added about as much weight to my PSE Supra as you have on the focus. It was perfectly balanced and felt great while shooting. But after two weeks, I suddenly felt a sharp pain in my bow shoulder and couldn’t raise my arm anymore. Turns out, the set up was too heavy (even though it didn’t feel that way to me) and my tendon got inflamed. Now I have to take a break from shooting for several weeks until everything is healed, and then start over with MUCH less weight. So, in addition to making sure that you can tolerate the overall weight of the bow, I’d also say build up to that weight VERY slowly. Like, force yourself to not add too much weight right away but build it up over months to give your tendons time to adjust. Building up muscle is easy, but tendons are just super fragile. Cheers and thanks for another great video. Julia
Hi Julia - sorry to hear - I did supplements to help the healing, but you might need to do weights to build up. It takes time and the results are not instant but gradually work.
Solid shooting with that Supra, you weren't kidding about stabilty with that extra weight.
Active grip (single side bar) vs Passive grip (v-bars)
I shot v-bars for a few months and found the bow was easier to aim on target and keep level, but was very sensitive to inconsistencies in my form as well as wind, so I was less accurate. I found this to be, in my experience, because the bow was balanced and it required little input from my grip.
I went back to a single back bar and purposely set it up to be unbalanced and leaning left. This required me to increase side pressure from my bow hand to keep the sight level. This made my bow much more stable and less sensitive to wind drift and minor inconsistencies in my form. It allows the bow to be just as stable as the v bars but cuts a ton of mass weight. It requires more work from my bow hand, but my accuracy is significantly improved.
As to how much weight, it is totally personal.
I have shot both VBar and single on the same bow the Xpression last year - one Vbar and one Side bar - I shot the same scores. I note that Reo Wilde does not balance his bow and creates torque. I have tried this and I did have success with it but my body hurt to much.
Haven't shot in a while but looking into getting back into it this fall. I had 2 back surgeries the last one being 10 years ago.
Too much stabilizer weight definately aggravated my back, especially the front weight which required me to put more back weight on the bow to balance it.
I noticed that after your shot the bow still wanted to tip forward. My opinion is to take some weight off the front stabilizer so you don't have to grab the bow immediately after the shot. Although the bow aims more steadily with the extra weight and the arrow is gone way before you can influence the shot with hand movement . Having to grab the bow after each shot will tire out the forearm muscles. If the bow is balanced properly it shoild stay level back to front and break toward the target without tipping forward. Many years ago it was normal for the front stabilizer weight to drag the front of tbe bow down after the shot to get the bow out of the way of tbe arrow. Now I'm showing my age! My bow hand would get tired but I accepted tbat as normal. After back bars which are properly weighted I almost never feel that same hand fatigue. My opinion is to decrease the front weight by a bit with corresponding decreases in the back weight until you can shoot without fatiguing . Fatigue is where you are headed if you keep the weight you currently have on the stabilizers now. Then add a little weight at a time until you get the magic set up. 9 and a quarter pounds is alot to start with. I noticed the minor form breakdown as you shot. You should be able to shoot with the same form from the first arrow to the last arrow. I'm not against heavy stabilizer weight but it should be worked up slowly. A perfectly balanced bow feels lighter in the hand and will pull less in the lower back as you shoot. And as always sometimes less is more! Just my 2 cents!
No doubt that the Supra Focus likes more out front & with a slight front balance bias setup . After experimentation, no way would I shoot with all that weight . Mine is set up with about half that front & same weight rearwards on a 12" rod. Cable stops set at max letoff. The deflex riser does offer that benefit of using a heavier front end stabiliser weight, yet a comfortable lighter weight over all, achieves a nice hold & reduces lateral shots. Interestingly these bows use the same cam, it's that slight difference in riser geometry which needs consideration. The shorter ATA Perform 3D would be an interesting comparison.
Great videos Steven. I hope you can do more recurve bow reviews or industry news.
I'm in accord with b tamp, that second cam angle is nice. Keep it. Last week took the long Doinker's off and put stubby BeeStingers on for 3D. About the same weight out front, and I only use the back bar to level the bow in my hand, so it runs a few ounces lighter. Still tinkering.
Great advice, from a good archer, and archery reviewer......
Top American archer John Dudley recommends form and a dynamic shot over added weight to the stabilisers.
If weight required he suggestion is to add it to the riser and not the stabilisers.
Stabilisers obviously require a few weights to reduce torque and to counter balance the weight of the site.
The concern is mainly that its harder to maintain proper form with excessive amounts of weight.
Also even if an archer feel that they can manage the mass weight they are still causing potential front shoulder damage and as you said also lower back to mention just a few areas of potential injury.
And theirs obviously the need to be able to keep shooting the bow all day and if a competing archery possibly all day over a number of days so fatigue over balance and hold has to be balanced with each other.
Personaly as a compound archer in UK i often shoot in wind and the fact is more weight helps with the aim.
But its also far more tiring continualy fighting the wind even more so with the added weights
I would say most top archers - I have not seen Johns setup for target - but most are shooting 21 oz out the front. It is very rare for people to shoot light weight.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale yes thats correct. It seems to be a current trend/fashion. But whether long term its good for their body time will tell.
Issue is people see what the pros do and copy them.
Your video wisely encouraged not to over weight the stabs..
I wanted the NXT 35 but found the 31 heavy for 5'4" DL-26"ish me. I bought the NXT31 (using my stimulus check) and "now" on budget I have added a 2.5' threaded rod to my 8" stabilizer using coupling nuts. I have also added a v-bar bracket (permenant) and a V-BAR using another threaded rod will absorbers and counter weights. My NXT 31's aim has steaded dramatically although currently I am taking more breaks and fewer shots as I adjust to the weight.
Just added 12 ounces to my target bow a couple days ago. So far I feel like its more stable but I haven't seen a increase in my scores yet. I have shot pretty light for the past several years. Hoping it will help me out in time.
I shoot just as well if not better with a Bow Hunter setup with just a 12" setup. It shows up flaws on my form but they can now be worked on. You really do not need tons of weight, it's all about balance, unless you shoot 100's of arrows a week (I don't!).
What is the lower back problem? Is it bone or muscle?
Can you tell what sight you are using?
what should i buy shrewd onyk or doinker platnum ?
Are you still shooting that front heavy? I tried it But Im experiencing a tendency for the bow to drop to much during longholds... so going back to a more neutral bow. Good video!
Man that's a lot of weight... I'm shooting 5 ounce up front and 7 ounce on the back with my Hoyt Helix. Though I can't past 295...
I just purchased a PSE Ferocity. I love the bow. It has a smooth draw cycle, low if any vibration in the hand, decent speed, and it’s very light. My only problem is it’s more challenging to hold the bow steady on a distances over 30 yards. I have the stabilizer that came with the RTS package. Would it be worth looking into a different/heavier stabilizer to keep the bow from moving around a lot or will more time with the bow solve my problem? Your video review on the Ferocity convinced me to purchase the bow. Keep up the good reviews. 👍🏻
I purchased a Ferocity some while ago, too. Reason was, my Phenom was just too heavy to carry through the 3D parcours. Results dropped after about half of the targets, due to fatique of my bow arm.
I have the RTS package too, and get along quite well with the included stabilizer. The Ferocity is definitely lighter and more susceptible to wind, I experienced that as well. But adding weight is not really an option for me. And most 3D targets are in the woods, somewhat shielded from winds.
On the greater target distances (70/90m), I'm definitely better with the heavier Phenom. But on the 3D distances (up to 60 yards) and my "confident hunting distance" (about 40 yards), the Ferocity serves me better.
why not stabilize the bow with posture and biomechanics rather than massive weights ? and why not make the riser have more mass in general for stability ? adding a longer stabiliser with a lot of weights creates a long fulcrum and in my experience it makes it difficult to get the sight in the x due to its lower position than the arrow and bow arm so basically I have to aim so far down that the bow drops out of the power line , and once you go below the target we know the shoot is ruined , even pivoting has to exceed 5 degrees with is enough to miss the x and you don't tip a construction crane. and how does a tension activated release work if the mass of the bow is greater than the let off (holding pounds) ?
Great comment.... Agree completely
furthermore there is the subject of dropping arrows, (low hits)if using a blade rest or fallaway would not the path of the arrow be decided the moment the string is released due to the laws of newton ? the arrow pushes of the front nolde as compressed due to inertia then the blade bends and(or) the rest fall leaving the arrow path free. is the arrow still on the string so the angel of the dropping bow arm have time to misdirect the arrow as the string accelerates and that the human motion of release is faster than the bow ? if the path of the arrow is decided at the moment of release the movement of the bow should in theory be nullified by newton's 3rd law
@@mortenjacobsen5673 wow.... Scientific response.
If point of aim ie pin drops occasionaly from the gold to red id simply remove some mass weight from front of stabiliser or add a fraction to the rear stabiliser.
I was experimenting with this myself today and found it to be more consistent and more forgiving.
I have begun experimenting with rear weights , but if compounds are that accurate why even need stabilisers and weights and what good is a center shot bow when its canceled by he inherent transverse angel induced by human anatomy. I see a lot of compound archers holding there bows out from the chest and leaning there head into anchor or on to the string adapting to the bow rather the bow adapting to them
@@mortenjacobsen5673 Stabilisation.....1, ofset weight of sight.
2.... We are not mechanical shooting machines
I'm just getting into target archery, so explain it like i'm 5. It seems to me that if you have for example, 20 oz on the front and 10oz on the rear, can't you get the same balance by just putting 10 oz on the front, with a 20 oz overall lighter rig? Wouldn't an overall lighter rig be easier to hold for a day of shooting?
Love your shirt. I clicked the link to the video just to get a better look at it haha.
That BEEEEP!!!! scared the shit out of me.
Thank you for sharing the information.
Sorry I would like to know what arrows are u shooting with ur recurve please
I shoot 42# at 28.5" Im shooting Victory VAP 600 with 110grain point. When I shot 38# I shot 700
Archery Supplies thank u very much great work on ur videos
What's your thoughts on hunting stabilizers.
The same applies - but for hunting you don't need the pin point accuracy because you are shooting closer, so most hunters will shoot 10" with 2-4oz at the front, Some are now adding a rear to balance the bow.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale thank you for that I made my own stabilizer it's about 10" I seem to shoot way better at 40 50 yards. But it's not as quiet as I'd like but love the videos keep it up.
Can you do a review on the BEAR APPROACH HC. As always love the vids!
You should try a shorter ATA bow. I think that would help too. A smaller sail to catch the wind.
The opposite though is prefered in target.... Longer ATA is harder to torque.
Also the human body holding the bow is already a big sail for the wind.
No perfect solution when in the wind.
Why not just go inside for your testing.
Hi Steven. Thanks for the videos posted. Always interesting, detailed and unbiased. Please could I get your email. Thanks