The developers making Spy: "This is a fun idea, I like how it changes the game." The developers adding a third of all weapons: "Words cannot describe how much I hate France!"
I'm surprised you didn't mention the tendency for rattlesnakes to bunker up with desert tortoises as an example of symbiotic relationships. It would have been such an ingenious metaphor for the relationship between pybros and engineers.
I watched a jetpack pyro fly above and land on a rangled sentry without the engineer noticing. The pyro killed the engineer with his flamethrower and then beat the sentry to death while standing on it and circling it to avoid its fire. Probably the most badass and effective things I have ever seen. Unfortunately they pyro did not fare to well against my minigun though. He's still working on that I guess.
@@Leo.23232 I mean I've always been confused as to how that works, like you mean to tell me, a sledgehammer does less damage to someone? Sure I guess, or how holding a plank with a nail in it makes bullets hurt you more? Idk tf2 is weird man
I once saw a spy disguise as me, used voice chat to warn my team and someone started making what I'll describe as "overdramatic confused grunting noises". It's not just that people don't coordinate in pubs, they actively resent any attempt to do so.
Yeah the 'durr there's no teamlay durr' circlejerk is old. You try communicating or in any way relying on your team, smart youtuber man. Go on, try it, it'll be fun, you won't lose half your braincells within a week, promise
I once went onto a 2fort server with an absolutely absurd nest in our sewers. Like 5 sentries at least. I went in as a Pybro with an Uber Medic, and we ended up decimating the entire nest. Of course they set up again 10 minutes later but we don’t talk about that-
I use the neon anilator (because I have nothing else and It's better than stock) In one game I saw a sapped teleporter and remembered hey I can destroy the sapper and I did It was a pretty nice moment
It's even redundant when your team's spy sapps an enemy building and you use the homewrecker to kill it faster to prevent other engineers or pryros from breaking it. This is redundant since the sapper was already going to kill the building and your airblast and flamethrower are already good enough tools for stopping people from reaching a sapped building.
Actually, Its only redundant as a dedicated Engineers Pybro, If you stay around the rest of the team, keeping a medic alive (ASSUMING THERE IS ONE), And keeping people away from a demomans short range, You often give up the ability to keep spies away from the Engineers, So the Homewrecker comes up much more helpful there
0:12 the cucumbers, surprisingly, don't like that very much and some have developed spikes on the inside to deter the pearl fish Like the relationship between a razorback sniper and a spy Or the relationship between a pybro engi duo and a spy
Giving the homewrecker to the sniper would be the ultimate middle finger to spies. Pyro having it makes sense since he is meant to counter spies, but sniper having yet another spy-counter just doesn't make sense to me. Plus getting quickscoped by a razorback sniper who then goes on to undo my sappers would give me a brain aneurysm from sheer rage.
Doesn't really make sense to give what is already an anti-spy class an anti-spy melee balance wise, i think heavy would make more sense, him being slower and more active on the battlefield means the building being saved in one swing is now more up to chance, instead of being in the hands of a class that has a two weapons choices to boost it's mobility and can hang out in the sentry nest to stop any spies from making the homewrecker have a purpose to begin with The building being saved instantly should not be so easy, engineers need to be careful and if the spy manages to sap it, he deserves to have a high chance for it to go down before the heavy makes it, and if he does, your team doesn't have a heavy helping in the fight for a while, so it becomes a choice of either your team can handle the enemy without you or you can't help the engineer
I honestly think Homewrecker should get a redesign and be given to a Medic. Like a new experiment that Medic invented, basically the Neon Annahilator lmao.
@@BartholomewTheIII I dont think they would use it as much, the ubersaw is far more valuable since they are capable to chase and melee spies then get alot of the most powerful thing in tf2, uber charge
The Homewrecker is the kind of weapon you bring in case of an emergency: it's not something you want to actively use, but you need to have it just in case something happens where it would've been really useful.
Honestly whats weird is that not only that the homewrecker is able to destroy sappers, the Neon annihilator is able to destroy sappers too, like goddamn, valve REALLY hates the spy
I think the reason they added that stat is the crit chance when wet bit is kind of useless on maps that don't have water. It's not like either the neon or the homewrecker are particularly dangerous to spies other than that they can destroy sappers so it's really not as much of a "fuck you" other than it sucks as a spy to successfully pull off a stab and sap and have it not work.
I think part of the Homewrecker’s purpose is to encourage the mindset of Pybro. Especially when it was first released. I don’t recall that many Pyros existing as dedicated Pybros before it existed. The Homewrecker adds an easy-to-accomplish reward to protecting an Engie, in a game where most people don’t care for their team.
literally, the other day i managed to stab&sap engie, trickstab 2 other engies trying to kill me and break sapper (the moment the 1k hours kicks in)... just to get hitted with crocket and random f2p pyro slapping my hard work with homewrecker. Yes, i did ragequit
A small, but important thing that wasn't brought up in detail with the Homewrecker: The damage penalty is specifically only against Players - Thus the melee damage on buildings is 130, and not 98. Most probably already know this, but it is somewhat important to say.
Yeah the reason you don't get to use the homewrecker much is because the spy doesn't even try to go for you. If I see a homewrecker pyro, I just target over extenders because that's all I can do.
One thing I wanna point out, is tons of comp or serious players despise this weapon. Essentially, it fucks over Spy (the worst class) and erases the good things he's done. Spy should be rewarded for managing to sap ab uilding, but Pyro can just insta-destroy it and say "no"
@@bounter_ I've never even seen a comp player talk about it. Fish himself even noted it was either perfectly balanced for comp(highlander) or completely useless (sixes, no spys).
A spy should not be able to walk into a sentry nest that's taken 2-3 minutes to build, is defended by both an engi and a pyro, and take the whole thing down on his own. THAT would be broken. I've homewreckered a sapper off a sentry many times only to see it destroyed seconds later by a soldier or demo, because the engi had been backstabbed and couldn't heal his buildings. Teamwork counters teamwork.
@@matthewmiller8297 he can't unless either the engi or pyro are really really bad. and being bad getting you killed is common sense. seriously if a pyro is so bad he can't protect one player from a spy then i don't think he deserves a crutch to undo the spy's work.
@@thecoooool Things that fuck over sniper 1. Flanking Scouts 2. Sticky Jumper demos with skullcutter 3. Other Snipers 4. Spies 5. Spam 6. Fists of steel 7. Vacccinator 8. Stock uber 9. Scorch shot 10. Multiple people rushing him Sniper gets fucked quite a lot
Spy is so much bad now than 10 years ago its hilarious and sad. If you remove every weapon that was added to hurt spy in any way (AND THERE IS HUGE AMOUNT OF THEM) He would still be a terrible class. That's really says something
At first i thought "How often do you enconter friendly building being sapped as spy" but then remembered its other use... We have sap and stab, now it would be sap and smack?
I love that idea so much so because I'm a Spy Main who also main Pybro in Engie nests every once in a while to cope for the fact that if I can't beat them, I'll join them. Spy counter Spy seems like a good idea to me.
10:10 probably cause the spy saw you, and immediately gave up. 90% of the time that's what I'll do if I see a pybro. It's much more beneficial for your team for you to stab medics than vainly die over and over trying to counter a pybro. Like you said, Pyro is already a DIRECT counter, there is literally no point in throwing yourself against a brick wall.
yeah, the main point of a pybro is intimidation; unless he's gone first, his whole existance means your work as spy can be undone istantly, anti-uber suicide runs aside.
@@Hisu0 this is a team game, probably the nest will be close to the enemy team, and the ambassador have headshot damage falloff, so is not that good in long distances, will take 3 shot to kill the pyro and each headshot have a 1 second cooldown, and you have to hit a headshot on the pyro that is of course, moving around
Homewrecker is my default melee when our team has a medic. I usually play offensively with DF and go to engineer to resupply and heal, sometimes when i go back there are those OH SHIT moments when i see everything sapped, that is when i use homewrecker, mostly out of selfish reasons so i can have a dispenser to fall back to. Sometimes i switch to pybro if i see engie really struggling, but i much rather have fun on the frontline or flank.
I think the homewrecker does the opposite of what people use it for. Instead of incentivising camping a sentry nest, it allows you to move around more and come back to save the buildings if a spy comes while you're out.
The way I see it, the Homewrecker allows you to be a hybrid pyro. You no longer have to sit in the nest constantly spraying fire, and instead can still go out and play proactively. Maybe the spy is going for your medic. If you are a full pybro babysitting the engineer there’s not much you can do. The Homewrecker let’s you go out and protect the rest of your team, while still giving you a tool to go back and save the engineers nest if you need to.
This, it’s not the best weapon for full on pybro, (although the other options suffer in that case so might as well still lol) The Homewrecker is best as an option for a highly mobile pyro on a more open map I feel, where they should be alternating between guarding the flanks and defending the med/nest, such as barn blitz, it gives an option to deal with those “oh shit” moments where you were caught out doing something else and need a way to fix the problem before the 7 other problems start happening.
This exact thing. I'm an engie main, so I tend to stick around them a bit when I'm playing pyro, even when not actually going full py-bro. The homewrecker allows me to assist my engie without the need of constantly being around him spamming air blast and not helping on the front line. I thini Fish does a good job pointing out that Homewrecker is a redundant weapon, but obly if you are forcing it. Homewrecker is a great weapon when you are not actually playing py-bro, but want to lend a hand when needed.
I highly agree. Now throw in the detonator, and you can afford to stray pretty far from the sentry (you can also ignite spies from afar and weaken distant enemies)
So there was this one time when a spy stabs Engie and saps his nest. I give him a puff and eject him, then proceed to remove the saps which decimates a push when the sentry goes back online. I also deflect a rocket or two. The screaming and laughter from the Engie over voice was priceless. Made it worth lugging around the Homewrecker.
I just remembered, wasn’t “the curious case” mentioned in a stream to be the original name for the Candy Cane video before that became a bad weapon academy? I know “curious case” is a common phrase, but it's cool to see it. Also, fuck, as a severe arachnophobic who flinches at even photos of spiders, that tarantula in the first minute nearly gave me a heart attack.
When homewrecker first came out, it did not have the ability to destroy sappers, it was just for offense. The sapper destroying function came much later, so the original function of the weapon was never to babysit engi nests.
great line of argument leading into the discussion: why does pyro, spy's hard counter, need another way to counter spy? every class has items designed specifically to either counter spy or pyro: Scout: madmilk and fanowar, boston basher, wrap assasin and flying guilloutine to a certain degree. Solder: batallions backup with crit resistance. Demo: to a certain degree the swords with extra melee range: Persian persuader, Eyelandeer, Claidhem Mor, Half zatoichi, Skullcutter. Heavy: Huo Long heater. Engi: Southers Hostpitality. Sniper: Jarate and Razorback. Medic: Crossbow since disguised spies receive a hit and give a hit sound instead of a healing. And Pyro the kinda bad child of Tf2 classes has: Flamethrower, Degreaser, Phogistinator, Backburger, Manmelter, Flare Gun, Detonator, Scorch Shot, Homewrecker and Neon Annihilator that can also break sappers. there is indeed a slight unbalance issue here. the only thing spy has to kind of fool pyro are the deadringer (ew) and the spycicle and thats it.
I think when the developers made the homewrecker they went "Pyro doesnt have an effective or even useful way of destroying buildings without wasting most of his ammo or even just being countered by an engineer sitting on the other side of a teleporter" and then they made it. It makes sense given the name that its specifically a weapon to destroy engie nests. However i think they also went "Well Sappers are technically buildings in the game. So lets just add that on as an added bonus" and instead of the building destruction being the thing it got known for, it was the sapper removal
In my experience, the homewrecker is more of a symbol than a useful tool. It’s how you wordlessly communicate to your engies that you understand how helpful you can be to them. It’s not always the case, but I can rely on a homewrecker pyro a lot more than the average pyro.
One thing thats borderline OP that I found out, is literally just treating the Sentry gun as the objective. Like literally, if your soldier, demo, or heavy, and you make it your objective to protect the sentry gun, you basically just automatically win the round. People always just leave the engie alone, but I swear if shit hits the fan, protecting the sentry is good enough for protecting objective.
In my pub experience, it’s rare enough to see an engineer willing to hang around his own sentry nest. Asking a mobility-curious class like the Pyro to do the same for someone else’s buildings is really assuming a lot about that player, and how much fun they’re willing to not have.
It's called TEAM fortress. You really gonna complain about helping your team set up a defensive fortress? Engie needs to space his gear out a bit, he can't get someone to watch his back for five seconds?
@@O5MO pyro has a few items that increase their mobility, but nothing so gameplay defining as rocket jumping. the most mobility pyro gets is really only useful for flanking
The thing you have to remember: most scenarios dont happen in a vacuum. It's not usually engi and pyro vs spy. Its spy, and heavy, and demo too. The demo may be the more immediate threat that requires airblasting; meanwhile the spy slips in. Engi can save 1-2 buildings but not all 3. Thats why the homewrecker is needed.
The spy would stab the pyro if he was distracted, not only making it so the Projectyle classes and Uber push are more effective, but also making it so the engi has to hit the sapper twice or thrice unlike the pyro Spy has a much easier time against an Engi than against a Pyro anyway So it would still feel redundant for a defensive role
@@bruschetta7711 in a situation where you, as a pyro, is helping an engie and protecting a sentry nest and a demo and heavy duo appears, you have a sentry with you. If the Spy goes for you, he dies to the sentry, while another class can fill in for the pyro if needed. If the spy takes the sentry down, then the pyro is on its own against 2 high damage classes. Now, which option is more likely to be a victory?
The homewrecker is needed because the spy managed to get behind a pyro and engineer and coordinated with his team, which is rare in pubs? I don't think you should have a weapon that may save you in a team push like that, also, if the spy can sap all 3 buildings, the engineer can just leave the teleporter since it is the least important in that case Is all about choice, but the homewrecker allows you to just undo part of said push, which may not even matter if they keep shooting while and after you remove the sapper So in the end, we don't need another spy countering weapon, especially on a anti spy class, and especially against his tool that has literally only one purpose
The Neon Annihilator is not getting a Bad Weapon Academy episode. Pyroshark is pretty fun, and the destroying Sappers stat allows Pyrosharks to go Pybro too if needed.
@@garnetbezanson1404 yeah but tbf is probably easier to use your flamethrower than running at them with a melee that doesn't increase your speed If you have the detonator though, then, hehehe
The worst part about the homewrecker’s spy countering, is that it was added later. On release in march/may of 2009, the homewrecker didn’t have the “Damage removes sappers” stat. It had to manually be added on later when nobody was using it. The weapon used to not have its single defining trait being “I hate France.” I always hated how the way people saw the weapon was “this thing destroys sappers, the damage bonus only makes them get destroyed in one shot” as if this isn’t amazing for destroying any buildings. It one shots minis and destroys everything else in 2 shots, regardless of health.
I think one of the biggest benefits of the homewrecker is as a suggestive weapon. You're definitely right that you don't actually need it to be an effective pybro, but just having the weapon in the game suggests to new pyro players that maybe they should consider sticking by and supporting their engi teammates -- whether or not the weapon itself is actually necessary to do that.
The Homewrecker has GOT to be on the top of my list of weapons I don't get. It's like giving a security job a way to literally reverse time. Oh, you failed your one purpose of protecting the Engi!? Don't worry just use one hit to undo half the spy's damage! Cause that makes sense...
In my opinion, there needs to be at least a bit more variety of weapons for other classes. An example I had would be another kind of zapper for spy where, when at hand, can zap multiple buildings in a radius. Or maybe focus it more on other things as well like an ubered class. That's just my idea on this matter, a really good video!
It would be really interesting to see this weapon given to Demo for the potential offensive capability. Anti building Demoknight is a really weird idea that I feel lik would be interesting to see.
It'd make no sense. Sentries are usually placed nearby or in front of the other buildings, good luck destroying a sentry as demoknight without being Solarlight or something
The problem is, well...Sentries completely obliterate Demoknight, so giving Demoknight a building buster he'll never be able to use makes no sense. And Demo_man_ already has incredibly strong building-buster capability, so giving him even more of it is just diminishing returns, the same problem Pyro has with anti-Spy capability. I think Fish has the right idea in giving it to Sniper, since Sniper having a support melee would both be really interesting for Sniper gameplay since it'd incentivize you to be more aware and constantly looking out for Spies about to put a Sapper on your Engineer's buildings, and also be a way for him to counter Spy that involves having to position himself close to Engie nests, which in turn makes him more vulnerable to splash damage. That makes Snipers easier to kill without needing your own Sniper and allows Sniper to counter Spy in a way that's actually _fun_ and _engaging_ and not, y'know, just equipping a single weapon combo to fucking delete them.
The amount of comments that clearly don't domintate every engie in a server as caberknight is entertaining. I would much prefer it on demo rather than pyro, pyro already helps engineers well enough.
@@Worldpeacekid not really, equipping the bushwacka still is the better option in that case, since it completely gets rid of the spy and you won't have to deal with him later (in 5s). unless the user wants any other weapon then the jarate, it won't see much use
Even though I love using it, it is extremely annoying. Let’s say there is an engineer absolutely destroying our team with the help of the pybro. Team creates a distraction, and you use it to sap the sentry and kill the engineer. You spent a while planning a kill, and did it successfully, just for the sapper to be destroyed in one hit. Pyro is already an extremely unbalanced counter to spy, and they give him a tool that instantly destroys the one tool spy has for engineers. (Also I am not a spy main)
homewrecker is only ever used to counter spy’s sappers which is extremely unfair because pyro already noskill counters spy in every way and that doesn’t have to be talked about. what could be done to homewrecker: while active, 30% sentry damage resistance take less knockback and push from sentry guns while active remove the ability to remove sappers because that’s the engineer’s job to be alive, and his teammates shouldn’t be able to manage the sentry nest with him dead. not to mention engineer stacking and wrangler engis
why does the class that has a spray weapon that applies a visible debuff and can push the spy away from the sentry have an item that rewards him for letting the engineer get killed
If you're fighting a pybro nest as spy, you learn a valuable lesson. You are not engi's counter, demo is. You open openings, not start them. A valuable lesson for all shpees.
I have it equipped just so people know I'm a pybro. In hopes that god will have mercy on my soul for the evil that I have allowed to consume my secondary weapon slot.
I honestly can't fully agree with you. "Just stay on the nest having intense copulation with the dispenser and spray flames. Hooray, spy crisis adverted. France is banned and the world is at peace" is a faulty point. I have other things to do and SHOULD do. Sure i love helping my fellow texas men, but pyro has other defensive roles he simply shouldn't abandon to babysit one specific class (because pyro is a much better proper DEFENSIVE class than demo will ever be and they should swap places in the class selection screen, but we're not ready for that conversation yet). Also never underestimate the stubbornness of spy mains, plus when they get more than 1 to help out. The moment they pull out the dead ringer, spycicle and amby that's how you know they're desperate. I have to take care of the projectiles, extinguish team mates, deny uber pushes, ignite enemies to reduce the effectiveness of their attacks by putting an HP drain debuff on them. By purposely abandoning those duties just to sit on the dispenser also indirectly affects the nest because it'll be only a matter of time before the attackers reach us and bust the entire thing. If a spy gets the engie while I'm doing other stuff then cool, i have the maul (top 3 best re-skins in the game don't @ me), i smack that thing and provide cover until the texan is back, but at least i didn't simply let the rest of the team on their own. I do agree that when you look at it, it is a bit overkill, but pyro does not simply solve the french issue by sitting on the dispenser, i fully consider that bad pybroing, on par with being a pocket medic. Side note to end this unnecessarily long message: the neon anihilator is the weird goofball here 'cause most people forget that thing can also remove sappers (in 2 hits but regardless) for some weird reason. (Also this is unrelated but backscratcher is top 5 most underrated weapons and people simp the powerjack too hard)
Demoman already erases buildings from existence with his explosives, wouldn't that be too much if he could also 2 tap the sentry with his melee? The exact same point you have with spy and pyro repeats here with demo and engineer.
The primary function of the Homewrecker isn't even its direct functionality. Its presence is the indicator for an intention to Pybro. It's a little round sign that says "I've got you, engie!"
This right here. You see a Pyro with the powerjack or axtinguisher, you know they're probably going to be flanking. You see a Pyro with the homewrecker, you know they're probably going to have your back and you can adjust your play accordingly.
The thing is though, the same argument about unbalanced match ups can be made about spy and engineer. It takes only one backstab and/or sapped sentry to put an engineer back to square one. Take this situation again at 7:43, but look at it through the eyes of the engineer. He spent a lot of time putting up his sentry and other buildings, and in one fell swoop it all begins to crumble before him. He can't do anything about it until he respawns, but by then his buildings will already be destroyed (most likely) and now he has to start from square one again unless someone else can break the sapper. Even if it does feel like overkill, it makes the most to give it to the class who's job is to deal with spy. Especially since Pyro has the least use for his melee. If it was given to any of the other classes they wouldn't use it, aside from maybe soldier with the Cow Mangler. Another thing to consider is that a Spy dealing with a Pybro protecting and Engie is a 2 v 1 situation. That alone is a disadvantage to anyone going up against them. On top of that, I'd argue that spy's nerfs over the years have made him harder to play than he should be. A lot of his weapons that would be suitable for these interactions are not as suitable anymore. Not to mention his only other sapper is the Red Tape Recorder and that thing is garbage regardless.
I like how Team Fortress rewards teamwork and combos. Battlefield 3 and onward punished it. Teamwork strats were either not incentivized with points or rewards, or nerfed into the ground. All to promote lonewolf K/D over objective play.
It took me one TF2maps test where I was in a VC with the spy I denied to understand The prerequisite for spy to use the sapper is to kill the pyro and the engineer in under 20 seconds, as well as survive whoever looks at him between those two kills and the sapper. And of course the pyro-as stated-is a brutal counter to spy either way
I like using the homewrecker when you are still trying to play the game beyond just babysitting for the engineer. With the homewrecker you can still make plays with your primary/secondary of choice and fall back to clean up the nest if a spy slips through. Plus two-shotting buldings is really fun.
Yup, it's true. Despite being the pybro's signature weapon, a good pybro's homewrecker goes mostly unused. The primary duty of a pybro is frying frenchies, after all. If the spy is busy running for his life, then the engi can unsap his own stuff. He knows how that works.
Honestly, I don’t think the original design concept for the Homewrecker was to be an anti-spy weapon, and instead more of an anti-engineer weapon, the sappers was just a bonus. I mean, just look at its name lmao.
I honestly think the Homewrecker is overpowered. Spy is already the most fragile, most easily killed class- To have a Pyro run in and delete the Spy’s attempts to destroy a nest while/after destroying him with their flamethrower… Absolutely insane balancing decision.
Being able to break sappers is unfair to a successful spy who can pull a stab and sap. Nobody should have that ability but the engineer. This shit is overpowered in competent teams
7:38 I have been in this exact scenario multiple times and it's the reason I seriously hate the homewrecker. If the pyro, who can easily *deny* any chance for me to even approach the engineer's nest, is away, and I stab the engineer and sap his stuff... I feel like I earned that... It's the pyro's fault I managed to sap the sentry, so why should he be able to deny that?
Personally, I see the Homewrecker as a way to be a Pybro without having to literally sit next to your Engie’s sentry nest. Because although it’s very easy to keep spraying flames around the nest to keep spies from even trying to sap anything, that means you basically can’t move away from it unless you know all of the enemy team’s spies are dead/not around. With the Homewrecker, you can actually move away from the nest to help on the frontlines or try to chase a flanker, and then you can still save the nest if the Engie gets attacked while you were gone. I think the Homewrecker isn’t really supposed to be used when the Engie isn’t in immediate trouble and can still maintain his nest by himself. It’s basically just a backup tool if the Engie can’t save his nest in time, which I think is why it can one shot sappers while most of Engie’s wrenches take two swings.
As a PyBro, this is mostly accurate. I usually get to use it against spies a lot on more CTF maps, but also occasionally on attack/defend maps. But I think it’s best used for both teams and it can fit with many objectives, as long as an engineer is on the server.
The way I see it, there are two big problems with the homewrecker: First, a spy can't tell if a pyro has it equipped until he uses it to break his sapper. The spy doesn't know that killing the pyro is as much (if not more) of a prerequisite to take down the sentry as the engineer is. Second, assuming the spy knows the pyro is running the Homewrecker, he now has to kill two classes under the watch of a sentry gun, one of which counters him easily. Ultimately the Homewrecker is too forgiving to the pyro. It rewards the pyro who failed in his job to keep the spy away, and all the spy can do is switch to demoman.
An important utility of this weapon: it lets the pyro defend the engineer's nest without sitting on that nest 24/7. A dedicated pybro is, in most pub matches, complete overkill for the level of threat spies present. Something like this means the pyro can dedicate less of their time to spychecking and more time to pushing, returning occasionally or if there is an indication there are spies around.
I think it might also have something to do with mindset, the homewrecker makes it clear what you're expected to do and causes you to naturally gravitate toward the most efficient use of it.
The problem with the homewrecker honestly is how it overly punishes spy for managing to do his job effectively, and overly compensates for engineers and pyros with poor spy awareness by giving them another “get out of jail free card”, which in this case is saving the sentry gun or other vital buildings. It unintentionally encourages bad habits from both pyros and engineers, which is turtling the gun and then dying horribly when they get overwhelmed instead of retreating. It seriously needs some kind of change to the sapper destruction mechanic or rework
why not less bullet damage or kb when active but FINALLY Someone said it I hate how engineers can die and literally nothing happens. Imagine if when a medic died a pyro could pick up the ubercharge and give it back when the med respawns. Spy gets gutted hard by using a gun he doesn't need a sapper removal bs too
If you use the Homewrecker, you're a support class, not an offensive class. Your team thus has one fewer useful person. It's like taking the Razorback on Sniper, instead of Jarate or literally anything else; do you really hate Spy enough to be useless to your team? Thus, Spy hobbles their foes just by existing, which is honestly pretty funny to think about.
honestly? I really like using the homewrecker when I know an engi on my team is new and either doesn't even know what's happening, or simply can't handle everything at once and there's also the use case of having it as an emergency tool when you _aren't_ babysitting an engineering all while hugging a dispenser and holding m1 24/7, sometimes you just wanna press W for a moment, or, dare I even say it, play around with team nearby, and still be able to help an engi in an emergency situation
I love that weapon being made to f up spies, cause I hate spies. something that I love doing with the homewrecker is when we're holding the defense well enough I sneak into the blu engie nest and destroy its buildings using, focusing the teleporter first.
homewreck being an overkill is what make it balanced -with a good team you will barely use it since other spy-aware teamate will do the job and engineer will unsap -with a bad team it's going to be god send gift since you're going to be the carrying multitask guy of the team protecting against projectile class and the flanck while taking care of building since the bad engineer is not doing it -since pyro is a good supporting class the homewrecker becoming an overkill actually make it balance in bad situation where you are the last one standing by taking care of the dispenser even without medic your team will have heal the sentry will replace any power class your team is missing to protect and the teleporter will ensure your team's mobility in short when your team is not doing it,you will -meanwhile in a good team with medic, power class and aware teamate you will find it suprisingly useless since the spy will have a hard time getting to your engineer anyway at that point you are better off using the powerjack to check the engi once in a while and go back to the fight or the backscratcher to help build ubercharge -basically being a multitask guy in a team that is already doing the job you will have no real job to do but having more capacity in a team whose player lack the skill to utilize their own capacity you will become the anchor of the team
on another note pyro melee are so situational that a lot of the time it's more of a "meh" choice than an actual choice in a match where you don't get hurt a lot (backskratcher) don't need to move around a lot (powerjack) kill the ennemy before getting to using the axtinguisher no water or liquid the crit pyroshark mode the ennemy have a constant dying medic or no medic at all then the axe that hurt both medic and his patient is useless so in the end you can find it surprisingly hard to use any melee at all so running the homewrecker most of the time isn't all that bad unless you find yourself in a match where you have specific need
I carry the homewrecker constantly, as the situations where being able to quickly destroy a building comes in handy more often than you'd think. Being able to quickly destroy a teleporter in a pyrrhic push can be a game-changing play, as can being able to destroy a sapper on a friendly tele or sentry (bonus points for robbing a Diamondback of its crits). It definitely is a situational item, but when the situation occurs, boy howdy is it useful. It's a no-nonsense utility melee for a class whose melee is primarily used for utility anyway. You also get gratitude from the engineer usually, which is great. It's also a ton of fun to get ubered into a sentry nest and just start SWANGING til it's all down.
Even if a pyro unsaps a building that building has still taken generally 25-33% of its health in damage already, damage that pyro can't repair and has now positioned himself next to an immobile potentially very high priority target holding his melee. As for redundancy, the Homewrecker's idea during defense goes great only for Pyro who has to choose between chasing down the spy or letting him escape while unsapping the building in critical health, and during offense thanks to his close range aptitude and combo tactics.
I don't think that balances out the planning and situational luck that Spy has of Stabbing and Sapping the Engie in the right place at the right time. All in all it just makes a harder to play class even mmore usless. I say if the Spy managed to find the correct time to kill your engie AND destroy his buildings he's earned it.
@@spinsolar Spy vs engi & pyro is obviously a bad matchup for the cunning saboteur. Is it really a bad thing to punish suicidal plays based on poor planning?
@@Kossumies6 I don't think switching to your melee weapon is a balanced trade off for undoing the work that could've been easily prevented by good awareness and puffing a bit of fire every now and then. It's easy to dispose of Spy before he does the deed and there are plenty of other ways to catch him out as well. You still think that this isn't a bit too much for the spy to consider?
25-33% is laughable number for class like soldier and demo, and even that doesnt matter. Cuz pybro can just airblast rocket and stickies, and even uber push. Pybro is not just middle finger to spy, he also a “fck you” to everyone trying to destroy the sentry. There’s reason why comp player hate this weapon
Honestly, I think a good way to make the homewrecker something more interesting is changing its general playstyle to play more into the offensive role over a defensive and support role. The idea I think could work is the homewrecker keeps the ability to do high damage to buildings, but in addition while out is it gains a damage and knockback resistance from from sentries, at the cost it looses the ability to destroy sappers, this would make pyro boost some its offensive capabilities by granting it a weapon that focuses on tanking and destroying sentries to allow their team to better push in, this could also lead into the idea of pyro and spy being able to buddy up so that the pyro can distract and tank damage from the sentry while the spy comes in and saps the buildings.
@0:20 Hold up. *Hold up.* Did you just gib a Scout... *_With a 15 damage Detonator mini-crit?_* Do you even realize how absurdly rare that is? Especially when getting it as part of your weapon gameplay footage?
Imo the weapon should just not have the ability to interact with sappers at all for the reasons you laid out. The only classes who should be able to interact with the Sappers are Engie and Spy. Anyone else intruding feels shit and weighted against the Spy for no good particular reason considering the hurdles he has to go through to successfully sap in the first place. I think the Homewrecker should lean into its aggressive nature rather than defensive. Remove the ability to destroy sappers, give it +200% damage vs buildings, as well as the ability to pierce resistance. Means that we have another weapon besides Enforcer that can penetrate Wrangler shield. Failing that, perhaps it could be a risk/reward style weapon where if you destroy a building with it you gain some sort of buff for a while, similar to the Big Earner. Perhaps move speed, or mini crits for a short time.
But I mean... What *else* would Pybro use as a melee? Pyro's melees already function almost exclusively as supportive roles, and none of the other options really fit the role of Engineer Buddy. You get less healing out of the dispenser if you run the Back Scratcher, the SVF and Third Degree are both redundant to Pyro as a whole, the Hot Hand is more a joke than a weapon, and the Neon Annihilator is just a worse Homewrecker unless you're Pyrosharking. Only the Axtinguisher or maybe the Powerjack act as any real competition for the Homewrecker, and I'd argue both are just as redundant to the play style as the Homewrecker. The Powerjack's healing is redundant when around a dispenser, and a detonator jump provides more versatile mobility. The Powerjack really just encourages you to flank, rather than guard an Engi. The Axtinguisher, on the other hand, is great for combo Pyro! ...except that you really don't want to go for melee on Spies, and you probably don't want a slower switch-from speed when you need to pull off a clutch reflect. Overall the Homewrecker might be a rarely used tool that only exacerbates a flaw in Sky's design, but there's just not a better alternative for the play style. It's benefits are rarely utilized, but the downsides don't interfere with the Pybro's role.
The amount of times I've died because some brainlet at the bottom of the leaderboard runs straight to me for help as I'm undiscovered is enough to make my blood boil...
I've been playing building wrecker pyro for several months and it is one of my favorite ways to play him. I hope this prompts more people to give it a try, it strikes a good balance of offense and defence with pyro.
I found that the homewrecker works best when supporting battle engineers rather than defending a nest. Pyro himself is enough of a spy deterrent, so that level 3 nest guarded by the engineer, reloading demoman, and whoever else just took chip damage doesn't really need to worry about spys that much. A battle engineer who is pushing up and keeps his gear in the enemy's face does. Seeing a pyro on the front lines just feels normal, and since most battle engineers tend to build and forget their buildings are prime targets for a spy looking to stop that push in the chaos of the battle. One homewrecker in that situation shuts it down almost as quickly as a random flame particle, putting one more gun in the fight that the enemy (and even your own team) assumed was as good as gone. On maps where I don't feel the need to bring the powerjack for mobility or when the engineer is on top of his game with the teleporter, the homewrecker as a backup plan if it is needed fits rather well.
Homewrecker feels like bullying spies, I kinda feel that the neon is more fair since it is alike to engi's wrench when it breaks sappers... and even so, it is still feeling like bullying.
As a spy main, The pybro is a play style that often has me wanting to eat my own fingers. It just takes away so many options for the spy with extremely minimal effort from the pybro. Sometimes I wonder how being a pybro is even fun. Why would want to babysit an engineer? Yes it's extremely effective, but I struggle to see the fun in it. TLDR: As a spy main I have a skill issue
I can tell you as a pybro that if you're just camping with the engineer you are not being a good pybro. Pybros are supposed to support the whole team not just the engineer.
![[TF2] In Defense of the Bonk Atomic Punch](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6tu_MY7ITNM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] In Defense of the Bonk Atomic Punch](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Curious Case of the Spy-Cicle](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MHihR_j2jXI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Sniper's Best Weapon](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z0XZqNJYum0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Warrior's Spirit](/img/1.gif)
The developers making Spy: "This is a fun idea, I like how it changes the game."
The developers adding a third of all weapons: "Words cannot describe how much I hate France!"
based
Welp, they added him several years before tf2. So I guess they have a reason to hate france
@@slendermansmoom every spy main is based
@@Whenwhereeverywhere Wow, that is an impressively stupid sentence, your parents must be proud.
@@zelgiusthebrave1401 proved my point spy mains are based beyond belief
I'm surprised you didn't mention the tendency for rattlesnakes to bunker up with desert tortoises as an example of symbiotic relationships. It would have been such an ingenious metaphor for the relationship between pybros and engineers.
Honestly yea
They do? I have never heard of this before. What do they do?
Sounds like an Engineer & Spybro.
@@brunochicote9468 nerd approves!
Excellent analogy and I learned something new
I watched a jetpack pyro fly above and land on a rangled sentry without the engineer noticing. The pyro killed the engineer with his flamethrower and then beat the sentry to death while standing on it and circling it to avoid its fire. Probably the most badass and effective things I have ever seen. Unfortunately they pyro did not fare to well against my minigun though. He's still working on that I guess.
The pyro can only outsmart the sentry boolet it seems
bullet: not outsmarted
sentry bullet: outsmarted
heavy bullet: not outsmarted
he will one day be a great player, once he learns to outsmart heavy bullet.
- Heavy, 2023
This seems like something heavy would say, in russian. A bit too well-written for actual heavy though
I think it is worth mentioning that not only does the homewrecker remove sappers, but it does so faster than any engineer wrench.
Given how one is a sledgehammer and the other is a wrench, yeah i can see that.
Yea
@@jeremycocciolone9223 however, the sledgehammer does less damage to people somehow?
@@pancakes8816 yes, this is why i hate when people try to justify stuff this way
@@Leo.23232 I mean I've always been confused as to how that works, like you mean to tell me, a sledgehammer does less damage to someone? Sure I guess, or how holding a plank with a nail in it makes bullets hurt you more? Idk tf2 is weird man
I once saw a spy disguise as me, used voice chat to warn my team and someone started making what I'll describe as "overdramatic confused grunting noises". It's not just that people don't coordinate in pubs, they actively resent any attempt to do so.
Sounds like something I'd do if it was literally just grunting noises, I'm just a retard lmao.
Not quiet that but yeah I’ve had occasions of people starting to scream when I try to do that
Yeah the 'durr there's no teamlay durr' circlejerk is old. You try communicating or in any way relying on your team, smart youtuber man. Go on, try it, it'll be fun, you won't lose half your braincells within a week, promise
Yes a lot of players are dumb like that and get shit stomped when the enemy can coordinate even the smallest of pushes
He was making fun of how you were speaking or your voice
I once went onto a 2fort server with an absolutely absurd nest in our sewers. Like 5 sentries at least. I went in as a Pybro with an Uber Medic, and we ended up decimating the entire nest. Of course they set up again 10 minutes later but we don’t talk about that-
I use the neon anilator (because I have nothing else and It's better than stock) In one game I saw a sapped teleporter and remembered hey I can
destroy the sapper and I did It was a pretty nice moment
Ah yes, the Amish setting things up in 10 minutes
It's so bizarre how much there is to talk about with a weapon with its biggest flaw being redundancy. Great video, regardless.
Yeah, it is weird to talk about a weapon where redundancy is its worst trait
@@calvingarbacik272i agree, isn't redundancy just soooo... redundant?
@@Emmariscobar Yeah, i really do think that redundancy is very redundant
It's even redundant when your team's spy sapps an enemy building and you use the homewrecker to kill it faster to prevent other engineers or pryros from breaking it.
This is redundant since the sapper was already going to kill the building and your airblast and flamethrower are already good enough tools for stopping people from reaching a sapped building.
Actually, Its only redundant as a dedicated Engineers Pybro,
If you stay around the rest of the team, keeping a medic alive (ASSUMING THERE IS ONE), And keeping people away from a demomans short range, You often give up the ability to keep spies away from the Engineers, So the Homewrecker comes up much more helpful there
I love when people cause divorces and get between relationships- oh wait not that type of homewrecker
Man, Pyro is a golddigger
@@darkmega97 and hog rider's gold skin is a goldni{REDACTED}
@@Idk-wg9gl🤨
0:12 the cucumbers, surprisingly, don't like that very much and some have developed spikes on the inside to deter the pearl fish
Like the relationship between a razorback sniper and a spy
Or the relationship between a pybro engi duo and a spy
"Surprisingly dont like that" what youd be fine with someone just crawling and living inside your ass???
Or the relationship between a spy and a spy.
Damned spies, they're ruining the spy meta.
surprisingly
@@gamerdomain6618 You spies sure are a contentious people.
@@Bubben246 You just made an enemy for life!
Giving the homewrecker to the sniper would be the ultimate middle finger to spies. Pyro having it makes sense since he is meant to counter spies, but sniper having yet another spy-counter just doesn't make sense to me. Plus getting quickscoped by a razorback sniper who then goes on to undo my sappers would give me a brain aneurysm from sheer rage.
Honestly, the homewrecker's ability to remove sappers should be completely removed and instead should give pyro knockback resistance.
Doesn't really make sense to give what is already an anti-spy class an anti-spy melee balance wise, i think heavy would make more sense, him being slower and more active on the battlefield means the building being saved in one swing is now more up to chance, instead of being in the hands of a class that has a two weapons choices to boost it's mobility and can hang out in the sentry nest to stop any spies from making the homewrecker have a purpose to begin with
The building being saved instantly should not be so easy, engineers need to be careful and if the spy manages to sap it, he deserves to have a high chance for it to go down before the heavy makes it, and if he does, your team doesn't have a heavy helping in the fight for a while, so it becomes a choice of either your team can handle the enemy without you or you can't help the engineer
I honestly think Homewrecker should get a redesign and be given to a Medic. Like a new experiment that Medic invented, basically the Neon Annahilator lmao.
@@BartholomewTheIII I dont think they would use it as much, the ubersaw is far more valuable since they are capable to chase and melee spies then get alot of the most powerful thing in tf2, uber charge
@@ebookie_meowda spy main?
The Homewrecker is the kind of weapon you bring in case of an emergency: it's not something you want to actively use, but you need to have it just in case something happens where it would've been really useful.
This me, running around with BB and some time you just need the HW to get the sapper when falling back
Homewrecker is the melee to hold on to while scorch spamming the choke point. Sometimes you get so comfortable you forgot to do your job
Honestly whats weird is that not only that the homewrecker is able to destroy sappers, the Neon annihilator is able to destroy sappers too, like goddamn, valve REALLY hates the spy
“My favorite class is the spy”
- gaben
@@Ekoa192 omg they did a riot at Valve HQ
I think the reason they added that stat is the crit chance when wet bit is kind of useless on maps that don't have water. It's not like either the neon or the homewrecker are particularly dangerous to spies other than that they can destroy sappers so it's really not as much of a "fuck you" other than it sucks as a spy to successfully pull off a stab and sap and have it not work.
tf is a zapper
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 ah shite, corrected it
I think part of the Homewrecker’s purpose is to encourage the mindset of Pybro. Especially when it was first released. I don’t recall that many Pyros existing as dedicated Pybros before it existed. The Homewrecker adds an easy-to-accomplish reward to protecting an Engie, in a game where most people don’t care for their team.
7:42 This is the single most accurate depiction of how it feels to play against the home wrecker.
literally, the other day i managed to stab&sap engie, trickstab 2 other engies trying to kill me and break sapper (the moment the 1k hours kicks in)... just to get hitted with crocket and random f2p pyro slapping my hard work with homewrecker. Yes, i did ragequit
The Maul's design makes it so good to equip. Actually, it's the only reason I sometimes play full on pybro and not just Pyro babysitting Engineers
A small, but important thing that wasn't brought up in detail with the Homewrecker:
The damage penalty is specifically only against Players - Thus the melee damage on buildings is 130, and not 98. Most probably already know this, but it is somewhat important to say.
10:10 No reasonable spy would attempt to invade a pyro infested nest.
Yeah the reason you don't get to use the homewrecker much is because the spy doesn't even try to go for you. If I see a homewrecker pyro, I just target over extenders because that's all I can do.
If I see a pyro as a spy, I mash my explode key, switch to Pyro and ask for an Uber.
One thing I wanna point out, is tons of comp or serious players despise this weapon. Essentially, it fucks over Spy (the worst class) and erases the good things he's done. Spy should be rewarded for managing to sap ab uilding, but Pyro can just insta-destroy it and say "no"
I have never seen a serious comp player bitch about it.
@@vyor8837 Bitching is not the right word. More so calling it bad design.
@@bounter_ I've never even seen a comp player talk about it. Fish himself even noted it was either perfectly balanced for comp(highlander) or completely useless (sixes, no spys).
A spy should not be able to walk into a sentry nest that's taken 2-3 minutes to build, is defended by both an engi and a pyro, and take the whole thing down on his own. THAT would be broken.
I've homewreckered a sapper off a sentry many times only to see it destroyed seconds later by a soldier or demo, because the engi had been backstabbed and couldn't heal his buildings.
Teamwork counters teamwork.
@@matthewmiller8297 he can't unless either the engi or pyro are really really bad. and being bad getting you killed is common sense. seriously if a pyro is so bad he can't protect one player from a spy then i don't think he deserves a crutch to undo the spy's work.
Just what TF2 needed, another weapon to counter spy.
Seriously, spy gets fucked over so hard already being one of the hardest classes in the game to play while Sniper is completely ignored
@@thecoooool technically fists of steel exist and vaccinator, but the second one is "fuck all classes, not just sniper"
@@O5MO except demoknight tf2 because no melee shield
@@thecoooool Things that fuck over sniper
1. Flanking Scouts
2. Sticky Jumper demos with skullcutter
3. Other Snipers
4. Spies
5. Spam
6. Fists of steel
7. Vacccinator
8. Stock uber
9. Scorch shot
10. Multiple people rushing him
Sniper gets fucked quite a lot
Spy is so much bad now than 10 years ago its hilarious and sad.
If you remove every weapon that was added to hurt spy in any way (AND THERE IS HUGE AMOUNT OF THEM) He would still be a terrible class.
That's really says something
Okay but consider this: Being able to use the Homewrecker as spy
At first i thought "How often do you enconter friendly building being sapped as spy" but then remembered its other use...
We have sap and stab, now it would be sap and smack?
He has fixed the very thing he swore to destroy
I love that idea so much so because I'm a Spy Main who also main Pybro in Engie nests every once in a while to cope for the fact that if I can't beat them, I'll join them.
Spy counter Spy seems like a good idea to me.
10:10 probably cause the spy saw you, and immediately gave up. 90% of the time that's what I'll do if I see a pybro.
It's much more beneficial for your team for you to stab medics than vainly die over and over trying to counter a pybro.
Like you said, Pyro is already a DIRECT counter, there is literally no point in throwing yourself against a brick wall.
yeah, the main point of a pybro is intimidation; unless he's gone first, his whole existance means your work as spy can be undone istantly, anti-uber suicide runs aside.
Pyro is not even a counter, is just a middle finger to spies
Or you can just, you know, shoot the pyro. Spies have revolvers, and some spies have revolvers that can do headshots.
@@Hisu0 this is a team game, probably the nest will be close to the enemy team, and the ambassador have headshot damage falloff, so is not that good in long distances, will take 3 shot to kill the pyro and each headshot have a 1 second cooldown, and you have to hit a headshot on the pyro that is of course, moving around
@@bonkk1 Furthermore, the Pybro will definitely be near a sentry, so it's literally impossible to shoot the pyro without getting blown up.
Homewrecker is my default melee when our team has a medic. I usually play offensively with DF and go to engineer to resupply and heal, sometimes when i go back there are those OH SHIT moments when i see everything sapped, that is when i use homewrecker, mostly out of selfish reasons so i can have a dispenser to fall back to. Sometimes i switch to pybro if i see engie really struggling, but i much rather have fun on the frontline or flank.
I think the homewrecker does the opposite of what people use it for. Instead of incentivising camping a sentry nest, it allows you to move around more and come back to save the buildings if a spy comes while you're out.
Giving the homewrecker to demoman would lead to some insane sentry buster demoknight plays
This thought itself gives me the worst ptsd ever.
The Homewrecker has always seemed like a strange case to Fish-
I use this both because I like helping out engineers, and because I don't use the shaprest tools in the shed. I'm just an expert in blunt force trauma
I hate to hammer it home, but I think there is a reason you're playing Pyro and not the gigabrain Engineeeer
@@genzo454 Awful pun. Take my damn like and leave.
Sir I'm using this as a quote from now on
The way I see it, the Homewrecker allows you to be a hybrid pyro. You no longer have to sit in the nest constantly spraying fire, and instead can still go out and play proactively. Maybe the spy is going for your medic. If you are a full pybro babysitting the engineer there’s not much you can do. The Homewrecker let’s you go out and protect the rest of your team, while still giving you a tool to go back and save the engineers nest if you need to.
This, it’s not the best weapon for full on pybro, (although the other options suffer in that case so might as well still lol) The Homewrecker is best as an option for a highly mobile pyro on a more open map I feel, where they should be alternating between guarding the flanks and defending the med/nest, such as barn blitz, it gives an option to deal with those “oh shit” moments where you were caught out doing something else and need a way to fix the problem before the 7 other problems start happening.
This exact thing.
I'm an engie main, so I tend to stick around them a bit when I'm playing pyro, even when not actually going full py-bro. The homewrecker allows me to assist my engie without the need of constantly being around him spamming air blast and not helping on the front line.
I thini Fish does a good job pointing out that Homewrecker is a redundant weapon, but obly if you are forcing it. Homewrecker is a great weapon when you are not actually playing py-bro, but want to lend a hand when needed.
I highly agree. Now throw in the detonator, and you can afford to stray pretty far from the sentry (you can also ignite spies from afar and weaken distant enemies)
So there was this one time when a spy stabs Engie and saps his nest. I give him a puff and eject him, then proceed to remove the saps which decimates a push when the sentry goes back online. I also deflect a rocket or two.
The screaming and laughter from the Engie over voice was priceless. Made it worth lugging around the Homewrecker.
I just remembered, wasn’t “the curious case” mentioned in a stream to be the original name for the Candy Cane video before that became a bad weapon academy? I know “curious case” is a common phrase, but it's cool to see it.
Also, fuck, as a severe arachnophobic who flinches at even photos of spiders, that tarantula in the first minute nearly gave me a heart attack.
When homewrecker first came out, it did not have the ability to destroy sappers, it was just for offense. The sapper destroying function came much later, so the original function of the weapon was never to babysit engi nests.
great line of argument leading into the discussion: why does pyro, spy's hard counter, need another way to counter spy? every class has items designed specifically to either counter spy or pyro: Scout: madmilk and fanowar, boston basher, wrap assasin and flying guilloutine to a certain degree. Solder: batallions backup with crit resistance. Demo: to a certain degree the swords with extra melee range: Persian persuader, Eyelandeer, Claidhem Mor, Half zatoichi, Skullcutter. Heavy: Huo Long heater. Engi: Southers Hostpitality. Sniper: Jarate and Razorback. Medic: Crossbow since disguised spies receive a hit and give a hit sound instead of a healing.
And Pyro the kinda bad child of Tf2 classes has: Flamethrower, Degreaser, Phogistinator, Backburger, Manmelter, Flare Gun, Detonator, Scorch Shot, Homewrecker and Neon Annihilator that can also break sappers.
there is indeed a slight unbalance issue here. the only thing spy has to kind of fool pyro are the deadringer (ew) and the spycicle and thats it.
I think when the developers made the homewrecker they went "Pyro doesnt have an effective or even useful way of destroying buildings without wasting most of his ammo or even just being countered by an engineer sitting on the other side of a teleporter" and then they made it. It makes sense given the name that its specifically a weapon to destroy engie nests. However i think they also went "Well Sappers are technically buildings in the game. So lets just add that on as an added bonus" and instead of the building destruction being the thing it got known for, it was the sapper removal
In my experience, the homewrecker is more of a symbol than a useful tool. It’s how you wordlessly communicate to your engies that you understand how helpful you can be to them. It’s not always the case, but I can rely on a homewrecker pyro a lot more than the average pyro.
One thing thats borderline OP that I found out, is literally just treating the Sentry gun as the objective.
Like literally, if your soldier, demo, or heavy, and you make it your objective to protect the sentry gun, you basically just automatically win the round.
People always just leave the engie alone, but I swear if shit hits the fan, protecting the sentry is good enough for protecting objective.
In my pub experience, it’s rare enough to see an engineer willing to hang around his own sentry nest. Asking a mobility-curious class like the Pyro to do the same for someone else’s buildings is really assuming a lot about that player, and how much fun they’re willing to not have.
Mobility-curios? That sounds weird yet makes sense in the context of gameplay and character.
It's called TEAM fortress. You really gonna complain about helping your team set up a defensive fortress? Engie needs to space his gear out a bit, he can't get someone to watch his back for five seconds?
@@O5MO pyro has a few items that increase their mobility, but nothing so gameplay defining as rocket jumping. the most mobility pyro gets is really only useful for flanking
The thing you have to remember: most scenarios dont happen in a vacuum. It's not usually engi and pyro vs spy. Its spy, and heavy, and demo too. The demo may be the more immediate threat that requires airblasting; meanwhile the spy slips in. Engi can save 1-2 buildings but not all 3. Thats why the homewrecker is needed.
Omg, amazing point, this just happened earlier tonight
The spy would stab the pyro if he was distracted, not only making it so the Projectyle classes and Uber push are more effective, but also making it so the engi has to hit the sapper twice or thrice unlike the pyro
Spy has a much easier time against an Engi than against a Pyro anyway
So it would still feel redundant for a defensive role
@@bruschetta7711 in a situation where you, as a pyro, is helping an engie and protecting a sentry nest and a demo and heavy duo appears, you have a sentry with you. If the Spy goes for you, he dies to the sentry, while another class can fill in for the pyro if needed. If the spy takes the sentry down, then the pyro is on its own against 2 high damage classes.
Now, which option is more likely to be a victory?
@@theermac6024 I choose option C, the spy is a madman and uses the YER/Wanga Prick to get rid of both
The homewrecker is needed because the spy managed to get behind a pyro and engineer and coordinated with his team, which is rare in pubs?
I don't think you should have a weapon that may save you in a team push like that, also, if the spy can sap all 3 buildings, the engineer can just leave the teleporter since it is the least important in that case
Is all about choice, but the homewrecker allows you to just undo part of said push, which may not even matter if they keep shooting while and after you remove the sapper
So in the end, we don't need another spy countering weapon, especially on a anti spy class, and especially against his tool that has literally only one purpose
"gotta love watching tf2 vids, hope i dont get jumpscared by a tarantula!"
fsoas:
Honestly the Neon Annililator deserves a video of its own cause it has a near common theme with the home wrecker. *In a bad Weapon Academy video!*
The Neon Annihilator is not getting a Bad Weapon Academy episode. Pyroshark is pretty fun, and the destroying Sappers stat allows Pyrosharks to go Pybro too if needed.
there's a chance
People seem to forget it crits people covered in milk and jarate as well.
@@garnetbezanson1404 yeah but tbf is probably easier to use your flamethrower than running at them with a melee that doesn't increase your speed
If you have the detonator though, then, hehehe
No.
The worst part about the homewrecker’s spy countering, is that it was added later. On release in march/may of 2009, the homewrecker didn’t have the “Damage removes sappers” stat. It had to manually be added on later when nobody was using it. The weapon used to not have its single defining trait being “I hate France.” I always hated how the way people saw the weapon was “this thing destroys sappers, the damage bonus only makes them get destroyed in one shot” as if this isn’t amazing for destroying any buildings. It one shots minis and destroys everything else in 2 shots, regardless of health.
I think one of the biggest benefits of the homewrecker is as a suggestive weapon. You're definitely right that you don't actually need it to be an effective pybro, but just having the weapon in the game suggests to new pyro players that maybe they should consider sticking by and supporting their engi teammates -- whether or not the weapon itself is actually necessary to do that.
The Homewrecker has GOT to be on the top of my list of weapons I don't get.
It's like giving a security job a way to literally reverse time. Oh, you failed your one purpose of protecting the Engi!? Don't worry just use one hit to undo half the spy's damage! Cause that makes sense...
Your job isn't to protect the engie, it's to protect his buildings
A pyro has way more purposes than protecting the Engi from spies.
Just thinking of the homewrecker makes my spy main brain scream in pain
In my opinion, there needs to be at least a bit more variety of weapons for other classes. An example I had would be another kind of zapper for spy where, when at hand, can zap multiple buildings in a radius. Or maybe focus it more on other things as well like an ubered class. That's just my idea on this matter, a really good video!
It would be really interesting to see this weapon given to Demo for the potential offensive capability. Anti building Demoknight is a really weird idea that I feel lik would be interesting to see.
It'd make no sense. Sentries are usually placed nearby or in front of the other buildings, good luck destroying a sentry as demoknight without being Solarlight or something
The problem is, well...Sentries completely obliterate Demoknight, so giving Demoknight a building buster he'll never be able to use makes no sense. And Demo_man_ already has incredibly strong building-buster capability, so giving him even more of it is just diminishing returns, the same problem Pyro has with anti-Spy capability.
I think Fish has the right idea in giving it to Sniper, since Sniper having a support melee would both be really interesting for Sniper gameplay since it'd incentivize you to be more aware and constantly looking out for Spies about to put a Sapper on your Engineer's buildings, and also be a way for him to counter Spy that involves having to position himself close to Engie nests, which in turn makes him more vulnerable to splash damage.
That makes Snipers easier to kill without needing your own Sniper and allows Sniper to counter Spy in a way that's actually _fun_ and _engaging_ and not, y'know, just equipping a single weapon combo to fucking delete them.
The amount of comments that clearly don't domintate every engie in a server as caberknight is entertaining. I would much prefer it on demo rather than pyro, pyro already helps engineers well enough.
@@Worldpeacekid not really, equipping the bushwacka still is the better option in that case, since it completely gets rid of the spy and you won't have to deal with him later (in 5s). unless the user wants any other weapon then the jarate, it won't see much use
@@spoongebubbles9380 i'm surprised you could make the caber damage consistently, how are you able to do that?
Even though I love using it, it is extremely annoying. Let’s say there is an engineer absolutely destroying our team with the help of the pybro. Team creates a distraction, and you use it to sap the sentry and kill the engineer. You spent a while planning a kill, and did it successfully, just for the sapper to be destroyed in one hit. Pyro is already an extremely unbalanced counter to spy, and they give him a tool that instantly destroys the one tool spy has for engineers.
(Also I am not a spy main)
12:08 seeing sniper trying to put out the homewrecker from the ground and engineer watching him is funny
homewrecker is only ever used to counter spy’s sappers which is extremely unfair because pyro already noskill counters spy in every way and that doesn’t have to be talked about.
what could be done to homewrecker:
while active, 30% sentry damage resistance
take less knockback and push from sentry guns while active
remove the ability to remove sappers because that’s the engineer’s job to be alive, and his teammates shouldn’t be able to manage the sentry nest with him dead. not to mention engineer stacking and wrangler engis
why does the class that has a spray weapon that applies a visible debuff and can push the spy away from the sentry have an item that rewards him for letting the engineer get killed
I've gotten more use out of this weapon when walking out of spawn and seeing a teleporter entrance sapped than in any other situation.
If you're fighting a pybro nest as spy, you learn a valuable lesson. You are not engi's counter, demo is. You open openings, not start them. A valuable lesson for all shpees.
I have it equipped just so people know I'm a pybro. In hopes that god will have mercy on my soul for the evil that I have allowed to consume my secondary weapon slot.
I honestly can't fully agree with you. "Just stay on the nest having intense copulation with the dispenser and spray flames. Hooray, spy crisis adverted. France is banned and the world is at peace" is a faulty point.
I have other things to do and SHOULD do. Sure i love helping my fellow texas men, but pyro has other defensive roles he simply shouldn't abandon to babysit one specific class (because pyro is a much better proper DEFENSIVE class than demo will ever be and they should swap places in the class selection screen, but we're not ready for that conversation yet).
Also never underestimate the stubbornness of spy mains, plus when they get more than 1 to help out. The moment they pull out the dead ringer, spycicle and amby that's how you know they're desperate.
I have to take care of the projectiles, extinguish team mates, deny uber pushes, ignite enemies to reduce the effectiveness of their attacks by putting an HP drain debuff on them. By purposely abandoning those duties just to sit on the dispenser also indirectly affects the nest because it'll be only a matter of time before the attackers reach us and bust the entire thing. If a spy gets the engie while I'm doing other stuff then cool, i have the maul (top 3 best re-skins in the game don't @ me), i smack that thing and provide cover until the texan is back, but at least i didn't simply let the rest of the team on their own.
I do agree that when you look at it, it is a bit overkill, but pyro does not simply solve the french issue by sitting on the dispenser, i fully consider that bad pybroing, on par with being a pocket medic.
Side note to end this unnecessarily long message: the neon anihilator is the weird goofball here 'cause most people forget that thing can also remove sappers (in 2 hits but regardless) for some weird reason. (Also this is unrelated but backscratcher is top 5 most underrated weapons and people simp the powerjack too hard)
Imagine you're beating up this guy, hes on the ground, bleeding out and unconcious and you decide "You know what? Lets use some brass knuckles"
Demoman already erases buildings from existence with his explosives, wouldn't that be too much if he could also 2 tap the sentry with his melee?
The exact same point you have with spy and pyro repeats here with demo and engineer.
The primary function of the Homewrecker isn't even its direct functionality. Its presence is the indicator for an intention to Pybro. It's a little round sign that says "I've got you, engie!"
This right here. You see a Pyro with the powerjack or axtinguisher, you know they're probably going to be flanking. You see a Pyro with the homewrecker, you know they're probably going to have your back and you can adjust your play accordingly.
Yeah it's basically a marker that you've specced into Pybro so all spies on the enemy team can swap class
The thing is though, the same argument about unbalanced match ups can be made about spy and engineer. It takes only one backstab and/or sapped sentry to put an engineer back to square one. Take this situation again at 7:43, but look at it through the eyes of the engineer. He spent a lot of time putting up his sentry and other buildings, and in one fell swoop it all begins to crumble before him. He can't do anything about it until he respawns, but by then his buildings will already be destroyed (most likely) and now he has to start from square one again unless someone else can break the sapper.
Even if it does feel like overkill, it makes the most to give it to the class who's job is to deal with spy. Especially since Pyro has the least use for his melee. If it was given to any of the other classes they wouldn't use it, aside from maybe soldier with the Cow Mangler.
Another thing to consider is that a Spy dealing with a Pybro protecting and Engie is a 2 v 1 situation. That alone is a disadvantage to anyone going up against them. On top of that, I'd argue that spy's nerfs over the years have made him harder to play than he should be. A lot of his weapons that would be suitable for these interactions are not as suitable anymore. Not to mention his only other sapper is the Red Tape Recorder and that thing is garbage regardless.
As a spy main fuck this weapon. Legitimately makes our difficult job even harder, with a specific fuck you weapon.
As a pyro main I do not approve of “Py bros” and they were a failed experiment
I like how Team Fortress rewards teamwork and combos. Battlefield 3 and onward punished it. Teamwork strats were either not incentivized with points or rewards, or nerfed into the ground. All to promote lonewolf K/D over objective play.
It took me one TF2maps test where I was in a VC with the spy I denied to understand
The prerequisite for spy to use the sapper is to kill the pyro and the engineer in under 20 seconds, as well as survive whoever looks at him between those two kills and the sapper. And of course the pyro-as stated-is a brutal counter to spy either way
I like using the homewrecker when you are still trying to play the game beyond just babysitting for the engineer. With the homewrecker you can still make plays with your primary/secondary of choice and fall back to clean up the nest if a spy slips through. Plus two-shotting buldings is really fun.
Homewrecker didn't use to have the ability to destroy sappers. It's was only added a few months later
Yup, it's true. Despite being the pybro's signature weapon, a good pybro's homewrecker goes mostly unused. The primary duty of a pybro is frying frenchies, after all. If the spy is busy running for his life, then the engi can unsap his own stuff. He knows how that works.
I named my home-wrecker to the better "kneecap remover 3000"
I just chase people with it and remove their kneecaps.
Honestly, I don’t think the original design concept for the Homewrecker was to be an anti-spy weapon, and instead more of an anti-engineer weapon, the sappers was just a bonus. I mean, just look at its name lmao.
I honestly think the Homewrecker is overpowered. Spy is already the most fragile, most easily killed class- To have a Pyro run in and delete the Spy’s attempts to destroy a nest while/after destroying him with their flamethrower… Absolutely insane balancing decision.
Being able to break sappers is unfair to a successful spy who can pull a stab and sap. Nobody should have that ability but the engineer. This shit is overpowered in competent teams
7:38 I have been in this exact scenario multiple times and it's the reason I seriously hate the homewrecker. If the pyro, who can easily *deny* any chance for me to even approach the engineer's nest, is away, and I stab the engineer and sap his stuff... I feel like I earned that... It's the pyro's fault I managed to sap the sentry, so why should he be able to deny that?
Personally, I see the Homewrecker as a way to be a Pybro without having to literally sit next to your Engie’s sentry nest. Because although it’s very easy to keep spraying flames around the nest to keep spies from even trying to sap anything, that means you basically can’t move away from it unless you know all of the enemy team’s spies are dead/not around. With the Homewrecker, you can actually move away from the nest to help on the frontlines or try to chase a flanker, and then you can still save the nest if the Engie gets attacked while you were gone. I think the Homewrecker isn’t really supposed to be used when the Engie isn’t in immediate trouble and can still maintain his nest by himself. It’s basically just a backup tool if the Engie can’t save his nest in time, which I think is why it can one shot sappers while most of Engie’s wrenches take two swings.
I see spy as more of a distraction class, whose role is to soften up or distract the enemy team from the spy's team.
As a PyBro, this is mostly accurate. I usually get to use it against spies a lot on more CTF maps, but also occasionally on attack/defend maps. But I think it’s best used for both teams and it can fit with many objectives, as long as an engineer is on the server.
The way I see it, there are two big problems with the homewrecker:
First, a spy can't tell if a pyro has it equipped until he uses it to break his sapper. The spy doesn't know that killing the pyro is as much (if not more) of a prerequisite to take down the sentry as the engineer is.
Second, assuming the spy knows the pyro is running the Homewrecker, he now has to kill two classes under the watch of a sentry gun, one of which counters him easily.
Ultimately the Homewrecker is too forgiving to the pyro. It rewards the pyro who failed in his job to keep the spy away, and all the spy can do is switch to demoman.
An important utility of this weapon: it lets the pyro defend the engineer's nest without sitting on that nest 24/7. A dedicated pybro is, in most pub matches, complete overkill for the level of threat spies present. Something like this means the pyro can dedicate less of their time to spychecking and more time to pushing, returning occasionally or if there is an indication there are spies around.
I think it might also have something to do with mindset, the homewrecker makes it clear what you're expected to do and causes you to naturally gravitate toward the most efficient use of it.
The homewrecker reminds me of the meme "name more iconic duo, I'll wait"
The problem with the homewrecker honestly is how it overly punishes spy for managing to do his job effectively, and overly compensates for engineers and pyros with poor spy awareness by giving them another “get out of jail free card”, which in this case is saving the sentry gun or other vital buildings. It unintentionally encourages bad habits from both pyros and engineers, which is turtling the gun and then dying horribly when they get overwhelmed instead of retreating. It seriously needs some kind of change to the sapper destruction mechanic or rework
why not less bullet damage or kb when active
but FINALLY Someone said it I hate how engineers can die and literally nothing happens. Imagine if when a medic died a pyro could pick up the ubercharge and give it back when the med respawns.
Spy gets gutted hard by using a gun he doesn't need a sapper removal bs too
If you use the Homewrecker, you're a support class, not an offensive class.
Your team thus has one fewer useful person.
It's like taking the Razorback on Sniper, instead of Jarate or literally anything else; do you really hate Spy enough to be useless to your team?
Thus, Spy hobbles their foes just by existing, which is honestly pretty funny to think about.
honestly? I really like using the homewrecker when I know an engi on my team is new and either doesn't even know what's happening, or simply can't handle everything at once
and there's also the use case of having it as an emergency tool when you _aren't_ babysitting an engineering all while hugging a dispenser and holding m1 24/7, sometimes you just wanna press W for a moment, or, dare I even say it, play around with team nearby, and still be able to help an engi in an emergency situation
It's even more funny when you notice that the developers give Pyro not one, but 2 weapons that can destroy zappers:
Homewrecker
And
Neon Anahilator
Valve just hates spy, that's it.
I love that weapon being made to f up spies, cause I hate spies. something that I love doing with the homewrecker is when we're holding the defense well enough I sneak into the blu engie nest and destroy its buildings using, focusing the teleporter first.
7:02 me a gunspy
(Pyro cries when he sees me)
& redundancy some engineers leave their buildings spread out more and you'll just come across a sapped dispenser or teleporter out somewhere
homewreck being an overkill is what make it balanced
-with a good team you will barely use it since other spy-aware teamate will do the job and engineer will unsap
-with a bad team it's going to be god send gift since you're going to be the carrying multitask guy of the team protecting against projectile class and the flanck while taking care of building since the bad engineer is not doing it
-since pyro is a good supporting class the homewrecker becoming an overkill actually make it balance in bad situation where you are the last one standing by taking care of the dispenser even without medic your team will have heal the sentry will replace any power class your team is missing to protect and the teleporter will ensure your team's mobility in short when your team is not doing it,you will
-meanwhile in a good team with medic, power class and aware teamate you will find it suprisingly useless since the spy will have a hard time getting to your engineer anyway at that point you are better off using the powerjack to check the engi once in a while and go back to the fight or the backscratcher to help build ubercharge
-basically being a multitask guy in a team that is already doing the job you will have no real job to do but having more capacity in a team whose player lack the skill to utilize their own capacity you will become the anchor of the team
on another note pyro melee are so situational that a lot of the time it's more of a "meh" choice than an actual choice in a match where you don't get hurt a lot (backskratcher) don't need to move around a lot (powerjack) kill the ennemy before getting to using the axtinguisher no water or liquid the crit pyroshark mode the ennemy have a constant dying medic or no medic at all then the axe that hurt both medic and his patient is useless so in the end you can find it surprisingly hard to use any melee at all so running the homewrecker most of the time isn't all that bad unless you find yourself in a match where you have specific need
I carry the homewrecker constantly, as the situations where being able to quickly destroy a building comes in handy more often than you'd think. Being able to quickly destroy a teleporter in a pyrrhic push can be a game-changing play, as can being able to destroy a sapper on a friendly tele or sentry (bonus points for robbing a Diamondback of its crits). It definitely is a situational item, but when the situation occurs, boy howdy is it useful. It's a no-nonsense utility melee for a class whose melee is primarily used for utility anyway. You also get gratitude from the engineer usually, which is great.
It's also a ton of fun to get ubered into a sentry nest and just start SWANGING til it's all down.
It's been well over a decade and one-shotting minis never gets old
It's also handy for knocking sappers off tele at spawn. Comes up often enough for me
We also have to mention the neon annihilator which does the home wreckers job but underwater.
Even if a pyro unsaps a building that building has still taken generally 25-33% of its health in damage already, damage that pyro can't repair and has now positioned himself next to an immobile potentially very high priority target holding his melee. As for redundancy, the Homewrecker's idea during defense goes great only for Pyro who has to choose between chasing down the spy or letting him escape while unsapping the building in critical health, and during offense thanks to his close range aptitude and combo tactics.
I don't think that balances out the planning and situational luck that Spy has of Stabbing and Sapping the Engie in the right place at the right time. All in all it just makes a harder to play class even mmore usless.
I say if the Spy managed to find the correct time to kill your engie AND destroy his buildings he's earned it.
@@spinsolar Spy vs engi & pyro is obviously a bad matchup for the cunning saboteur. Is it really a bad thing to punish suicidal plays based on poor planning?
@@Kossumies6 I don't think switching to your melee weapon is a balanced trade off for undoing the work that could've been easily prevented by good awareness and puffing a bit of fire every now and then.
It's easy to dispose of Spy before he does the deed and there are plenty of other ways to catch him out as well. You still think that this isn't a bit too much for the spy to consider?
25-33% is laughable number for class like soldier and demo, and even that doesnt matter. Cuz pybro can just airblast rocket and stickies, and even uber push. Pybro is not just middle finger to spy, he also a “fck you” to everyone trying to destroy the sentry. There’s reason why comp player hate this weapon
Big fan of the sfm frames! Look forward to seeing more in future videos!
0:16 muscle memory goes hard
I have done this more times then i wish to admit, dropping down from badwater last to pull out a homewrecker.
Honestly, I think a good way to make the homewrecker something more interesting is changing its general playstyle to play more into the offensive role over a defensive and support role.
The idea I think could work is the homewrecker keeps the ability to do high damage to buildings, but in addition while out is it gains a damage and knockback resistance from from sentries, at the cost it looses the ability to destroy sappers, this would make pyro boost some its offensive capabilities by granting it a weapon that focuses on tanking and destroying sentries to allow their team to better push in, this could also lead into the idea of pyro and spy being able to buddy up so that the pyro can distract and tank damage from the sentry while the spy comes in and saps the buildings.
@0:20
Hold up. *Hold up.*
Did you just gib a Scout... *_With a 15 damage Detonator mini-crit?_*
Do you even realize how absurdly rare that is? Especially when getting it as part of your weapon gameplay footage?
Damn
Imo the weapon should just not have the ability to interact with sappers at all for the reasons you laid out. The only classes who should be able to interact with the Sappers are Engie and Spy. Anyone else intruding feels shit and weighted against the Spy for no good particular reason considering the hurdles he has to go through to successfully sap in the first place.
I think the Homewrecker should lean into its aggressive nature rather than defensive. Remove the ability to destroy sappers, give it +200% damage vs buildings, as well as the ability to pierce resistance. Means that we have another weapon besides Enforcer that can penetrate Wrangler shield. Failing that, perhaps it could be a risk/reward style weapon where if you destroy a building with it you gain some sort of buff for a while, similar to the Big Earner. Perhaps move speed, or mini crits for a short time.
But I mean... What *else* would Pybro use as a melee? Pyro's melees already function almost exclusively as supportive roles, and none of the other options really fit the role of Engineer Buddy.
You get less healing out of the dispenser if you run the Back Scratcher, the SVF and Third Degree are both redundant to Pyro as a whole, the Hot Hand is more a joke than a weapon, and the Neon Annihilator is just a worse Homewrecker unless you're Pyrosharking.
Only the Axtinguisher or maybe the Powerjack act as any real competition for the Homewrecker, and I'd argue both are just as redundant to the play style as the Homewrecker. The Powerjack's healing is redundant when around a dispenser, and a detonator jump provides more versatile mobility. The Powerjack really just encourages you to flank, rather than guard an Engi.
The Axtinguisher, on the other hand, is great for combo Pyro! ...except that you really don't want to go for melee on Spies, and you probably don't want a slower switch-from speed when you need to pull off a clutch reflect.
Overall the Homewrecker might be a rarely used tool that only exacerbates a flaw in Sky's design, but there's just not a better alternative for the play style. It's benefits are rarely utilized, but the downsides don't interfere with the Pybro's role.
10:44 it sounds like a slogan for a condon company
Too situational, but insane in that situation. The powerjack exists and is better everywhere, except where the homewrecker is the best.
4:45 live footage of optimal cp_steel highlander pyro gameplay
10:32 usually through fault of the other spy
The amount of times I've died because some brainlet at the bottom of the leaderboard runs straight to me for help as I'm undiscovered is enough to make my blood boil...
I've been playing building wrecker pyro for several months and it is one of my favorite ways to play him. I hope this prompts more people to give it a try, it strikes a good balance of offense and defence with pyro.
0:08 Australia jumpscare
best jumpscares ever
Got scared
Unsubscribed
@@dvircohen2465 duck
@@beanz6970 Javir
That's what "pybro" is; just regular pyro gameplay except you can also remove sappers, for the once a game you actually get the chance.
Honestly, seeing heavy one hand the homewrecker would be sick.
I found that the homewrecker works best when supporting battle engineers rather than defending a nest. Pyro himself is enough of a spy deterrent, so that level 3 nest guarded by the engineer, reloading demoman, and whoever else just took chip damage doesn't really need to worry about spys that much. A battle engineer who is pushing up and keeps his gear in the enemy's face does. Seeing a pyro on the front lines just feels normal, and since most battle engineers tend to build and forget their buildings are prime targets for a spy looking to stop that push in the chaos of the battle. One homewrecker in that situation shuts it down almost as quickly as a random flame particle, putting one more gun in the fight that the enemy (and even your own team) assumed was as good as gone. On maps where I don't feel the need to bring the powerjack for mobility or when the engineer is on top of his game with the teleporter, the homewrecker as a backup plan if it is needed fits rather well.
Homewrecker feels like bullying spies, I kinda feel that the neon is more fair since it is alike to engi's wrench when it breaks sappers... and even so, it is still feeling like bullying.
As a spy main, The pybro is a play style that often has me wanting to eat my own fingers. It just takes away so many options for the spy with extremely minimal effort from the pybro. Sometimes I wonder how being a pybro is even fun. Why would want to babysit an engineer? Yes it's extremely effective, but I struggle to see the fun in it.
TLDR: As a spy main I have a skill issue
I can tell you as a pybro that if you're just camping with the engineer you are not being a good pybro. Pybros are supposed to support the whole team not just the engineer.