That Pirates fight scene on the wheel was amazing and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. Peak Pirates. Fight me. Wanna help? Share the video with someone who might find it helpful. #freeeducationalforall Part 1 on discussing sentence-by-sentence writing of a fight scene! >>> ruclips.net/video/jKkKNKUK_GE/видео.html
I agree, better than most "serious" fighting scenes and still more believable than witcher's "pirouettes" from the bools, paper armour and fucked up choreography in movies
He brings up Shad's book while talking about an uncommon use of chekhov's gun (magic systems)... Of course that's gotta be intentional that he makes his own uncommon use of chekhov's guns while talking about how to uncommonly use chekhov's guns.
In a way. If you look at the Saitama fight against Lord Boros, the level of insane strength and stamina between said adversaries is what allows for the extension of the fight. Hell, even up to the moment that Saitama colossally finishes him, most of the engagement is an endurance test of abuse between the fighters trading 'light' blows. So yeah, from an absurd over-the-top way, it would be realistic for a 'One Punch Man' to have such short fights due to their application of raw power.
Funny enough; what Shad says there about a shield being able to prolong the length of a battle reminded me of a different anime I recently watched called Record of Grancrest War, and particularly a duel between the protagonist Theo Cornaro and Milza Kuces. Milza is basically one of the best swordsmen in the continent, and Theo... isn't. He wins by using a shield to deliberately prolong the fight and tire out Milza. One of the best things about it is that it's already been established before that this is how Theo fights more skilled opponents.
So basically real sword-fights are a little bit more like how we think of Wild West gun duels where whoever reacts the fastest and with the most accuracy will probably win in one hit.
Basically yes if at least one of them is proper swordman.. No if the two fighter have poor skill.. What can i imagine is a lot of run and dodge and insult in between
l’ve done sword fighting with heavy foam/padded swords. only one guy knew actual technique, but besides that, when fighting someone on around the same level as you, it doesn’t last very long unless you’re running away or backing off cautiously. however, the only way to win is to just go for it when you think the time is right. in that moment, they can maneuver just right and get you instead. you can prolong the fight if you’re trying to strategize or decide what you’ll do, and exchanges can last a while if neither are taking risks. but you can’t really win without charging in. so, sometimes? but l dunno.
Duels are fundamentally different from real fights. A duel is structured, with clear rules and restrictions, where the objective is victory rather than neutralizing a threat. A no-bullshit real world fight will usually only last a few seconds.
Pretty much. Also, there is a lot of staring at each other between combat because realistically, neither of the combatants really wants to get a sword through the stomach so both are trying to convince each other to back off. At least in smaller combat situations such as skirmishes or duels. Even in battles, you can have the two sides staring at each other until someone makes initial contact and the men on both sides of him are forced to engage. But even then there is some debate as how much of the shield wall would be actually engaged at any moment. There is some speculation that the two lines might writhe like parallel serpents, with men engaging or disengaging depending on how brave that section is feeling. Over 80% of casualties happen when one side has broken ranks and is running away- then they get cut down from behind (if the enemy pursues them). Granted, there are some Greek sources that say the two lines would get into great pishing matches, with men too close to actually use their weapons.
@@GnarledStaff basically yes.. In reality war not as much as interesting as we watch on movie.. It's more slow n much more wait n see between fight because like you said, no one want to get cut with another person weapon.. There's is area that called "no man zone" between 2 army and no one want to be the 1st person enter that area (and most likely would be killed 1st)..
The Lord of the Rings has long battles but super short fight scenes. For example Eowyn vs the Witch-king has exactly one move for each character (one blow from the Nazgul, one strike from Merry, one thrust from Eowyn). Yet the scene is one of the most memorable of the entire novel. Moral of the story: in fight scenes, size does not matter and small is beautiful.
Norrington has one of the most tragic backstories in all of the movies. But everybody always forgets about him, because his actor got swaped between part 2 and 3.
@@TheLangenator i dont now shit about screenwriting, but ive heard that "they fight" is literally the only thing the script for The Fellowship of the Rings says about the fight in Balins tomb. so, i dunno man.
@@Nutellafuerst I think that one actually is important in setting stakes and demonstrating the willingness and ability of the Fellowship to work together. It demonstrates Boromir, Legolas and Gimli's prowess in particular. So while it's not revealing a deep truth of any character, it's still important to the collective character of the Fellowship.
TheLangenator if such a fight shows of the skill of a character so it won’t come as a surprise or plot armor later in the story then I see no harm in one fight without consequences for the character, but only one.
This is why it's common to introduce villains or antagonists in fight scenes. You can tell your audience everything they need to know about them over the course of a single fight scene.
I’m my opinion the fight between Maul and Obi-Wan in rebels is a perfect example of a realistic fight with multiple stages. The emotion you feel in the 5 seconds of the duel is monumental
When they guy was talking about how short real fights are, I kept thinking of that scene in Seven Samurai where the peasant challenges one of the samurai to a duel. He runs at him and suddenly falls over - we BARELY even see the samurai's sword move. The director Kurosawa uses this incredibly short fight to show what a boss this samurai is, and it's exciting and memorable as heck in the context of the movie. So much drama in probably the shortest fight scene in movie history. Avengers eat your heart out.
You seem a bit down in this video. So let me just say this: I really like your videos and have recommended them tô many people. You are very interesting and fun tô watch. Also, your video about mental health was great and really helpful. I am sorry RUclips buried your Chanel because of that
Here is my fight scene. Hero attacks. Hero’s master explains how this new hard magic system works for 10 mins and how there’s only one way to defeat the villain. The villain puts a gun on the wall. The hero runs away. The princess flies into the sun and uses a soft magic system to kill the master. The end.
I literally just clicked on the vid before reading the "ft. Shadiversity" bit. Can you imagine the moment Shad just randomly popped on the screen playing with his sword? Damn. Thanks.
I am not addicted to magic systems. *Hides notes about a new idea (4 core principles und 8 advanced techniques and the many combinations thereof) under the desk*
Regarding sword fights, there is one in Seven Samurai where one guy charges the other with a heavy swing while shouting, and gets promptly cut down in a single move. All done to establish the personality and the skill of the victor. It is a pretty sweet scene.
To add to the fact that real fights are shorter, Bruce Lee's scenes tend to end the match in only a few strikes, which is shorter than the traditional kung fu movie fights. Chinese filmmakers criticized him on this. But Bruce was in actual street fights. So, he knew they tend to be short.
Sad to hear the algorithm is choking your channel, I really appreciate what you make and how much effort you put into your videos. You have my money for sure
Nah it's not choking my channel. Just the last couple of videos I clearly massively underestimated. Which sucks, because Part 1 is probably the best or second best OW vid I have. ~ Tim
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has a nice pre-scene, in which Arthur's house is meant to be bulldozed in order to build an overpass. And just one chapter later, the entire Earth is destroyed to build a hyperspace freeway.
"And I really implore you to go watch that other video BEFORE this one" - said he, at the end of the video. Because everyone starts by watching the last 30 seconds, obviously.
Shad just randomly popping up with his sword spinning humming happily was the most adorable thing I've seen in weeks. Why yes, I am in fact currently reading both of your books and enjoying them immensely!
I feel as though the point of Shad's bit, as meandering as it was, was not the quickness of a real fight but that a good narrative requires fights not be realistic to some degree
And have good cinematography on the action scenes. There are some scenes from the last few years which I love but I suspect don't have the best choreography - however, they are shot gloriously. Obviously that doesn't apply so much in a written medium...
Another important factor, especially in visual formats like games and movies, but also writing. If you change the location of your fight, does the story change? If the answer is no, either make the location more important or change location. The environment itself can be a character but I like to think of it more as a weapon or tool. If you have characters fighting near olden time barrels, why not break a few of them by slamming your characters into them. Fighting in a restaurant? Get up on those tables. Fighting in a factory? Put in a magic god "on" button that gets accidentally pushed and have your fighters brawl on top of conveyor belts. The best scene I've ever seen as an example of this is Jack Sparrow vs Will Turner in the smithy shop. The characters are all over the place, even in the roof. They're getting their penny's worth for that location definitely. And don't stop at the environment itself either. What about weather? Is it rainy? Have characters slip. Snowy? Have a snowball thrown. Foggy? Have characters disappear into the fog and come back out for surprise attacks. Hell, maybe you can combine it. It's harsh rainy weather at night, character throws mud in the eyes of another character, that character slips and the other runs off into the dark rain and comes back out with a surprise attack when the fallen character gets back up. However, maybe you want a character that relies solely on their ability to process their surroundings rather than actual fighting. That's a pretty great way to write a brains over brawn character in the action genre to begin with, but maybe instead you want a character that's just brutal and you want to show that off. The best way to do that is have that character use as little environment as possible, in fact, make them get attacked by the environment as much as possible. The more they rely entirely on themselves in combat, the more energy they give off that they are better than everyone else in the fight. So yeah, make sure your fight scene location is important too.
I think that one of the keys to making effective but relatively low consequence fight sequences while maintaining a semblance of realism just to not make characters immune to pain. This is a common problem I notice in all sorts of fiction is that, in order to go for maximum carnage, they have characters continue fighting despite the fact that they should be all rights be dead or incapacitated by their injuries. The Punisher netflix series is the wooooorrrrst about this. When literally EVERY character in every circumstance keeps fighting despite having been stabbed a half dozen times, it not only takes the audience out of the story, but it makes it impossible to write low-consequence fights. And since having a character keep fighting despite injuries is often used as a way to showcase their strength and determination, having EVERY character be nigh immune to pain means that you need to have a character fight through truly ridiculous injuries in order for it to seem special, and that takes the audience out even more. If, on the other hand, you have characters actually respond in a more reasonable way to injuries, you can avoid this problem. In the real world completely non life threatening injuries can still totally end a fight. The worst injuries anyone in a story I'm currently writing have sustained so far were minor and easily treatable flesh wounds. But just because they're easily treatable and not likely to be fatal unless left totally untreated doesn't mean that it doesn't end a fight. I got to end the fight, put characters through some pain, and still have them up and around within a week without it seeming totally ridiculous. Small injuries can also still have consequences if you want them to. Small cuts on your face can still leave neat facial scars, and if you're out in the wilderness injuries getting infected can be a risk if the author wants it to be. AND, the fact that I set a precedent for fights ending as soon as someone takes a moderately serious injury means that if a character DOES keep fighting despite getting stabbed, it feels like it really means something, and is showcasing how determined/crazy/whatever you want this character to be. Finally, stop treating hitting people on the head as though it's a sure fire way to knock someone out for an hour and have them wake up with just a mild headache. It's not, at all. It's an extremely unreliable way to knock someone out that may well kill them and will most certainly cause lasting brain damage of some sort. There are better ways to have characters incapacitate someone. I personally favor just having someone get the wind knocked out of them. It's short term, but it makes sense and it doesn't cause massive lasting damage.
The second "Dugeon Heart" story actually does mention this. In the story the main character is a Dungeon core. He creates underground spaces and fills them with defenders in order to protect himself. The king has set up a game and a veritable army of adventurers storm into the MC's halls all seeking to reach his core (the deepest part of the dungeon) first. However the MC is not a normal dungeon and most of the adventurers underestimate him. 3 teams are eliminated from the competition as a result of their arrogance. One has a man take alcohol in instead of water. Getting so drunk he winds up separated and easily slain after loosing his lunch. Another team is eliminated when their barbarian fell for a trap that had been made more dangerous (but not leathal) by an opposing team, in the end she is poisoned, confused, in pain, and hallucinating. Panicing she activates her rage ability and attacks her own team, with the MC wondering why the team wouldn't have countermeasures for such a known problem. The last one is in my opinion the best. Whilst competing on the first and easiest floor the man in question took a small injury to his face. A cut over the eye. He ignored it as it was a minor cut that could be treated later. However it grew infected and burst in a fight on a lower floor. The pus got in his eye and the burning sensation completely crippled him right as he was about to win. His nearly slain opponent simply raised their spear as he curled over from the pain. On a side note I highly recommend the series. Its one of the better craft focused dungeon core LitRPG stories.
If I ever do put out an actual book, I’m going to insist on adding this channel to the “thanks” section (dunno what it’s called in English). It’s helped me so much, I’m very happy I discovered it a year ago
In Star Wars: Rebels the fight between Obi-Wan and Maul is a perfect example for a realistic (=short) fight between two masters, which also serves as a conclusion to a loong character arc, reflecting their respective character development to that point. Usually Obi-Wan had matured to a point where he would 't felt the need for revenge and just leave him be but Maul puts his mission to care for Luke at stake which leaves him no choice.
Can I just say that you are freaking awesome? Between you and overly sarcastic productions' 'trope talks' I've basically rewrite the plot holes in my story. The sass and just all around character you have is amazing. It never fails to keep me entertained, and your voice is really soothing. I'm so glad I found your channel when I did. If I could back you on patreon, I would. And when I am able to, I absolutely will. Thank you so much.
This was amazing!!!! I loved the collab part, he did a very very good job of explaining and vocally demonstrating how a fight works. I got so much out of this that relates to my favorite hobby! I found myself taking minor notes for subtle changes during presceeding and anticeeding scenes around fights or major confrontations. This video really highlighted necessary and unnecessary stuff. I ALWAYS get something from your videos. I hinted at it, very specifically to a specific person, and got your book for Christmas. I read it, but your youtube videos just do it for me. Your voice is unique, and you have a certain tact. The WAY you speak, is like it's scripted for emphasis and meaning instead of literally anything else. To be random, Grian is my minecraft version of you on youtube. I watch and listen, and learn, because you speak well and deliver an incredibly clear lesson. Thank you for being one of my favorite teachers.
I know everyone is praising the presence of Shad in this video, (which I'm very happy for), but I really wanted to give an acknowledgement for a second presence in this video that I wasn't expecting : The Three Body Problem! So glad that it's getting the acknowledgements I feel it really really deserves. Thank you Tim!
"That's part of what makes them...[bunch of stuff I didn't hear]" Me: **Loudly laughing at Jack's upside down legs interrupting the fight like I'm not almost 30**
I dont know if you read the comments but if so, I wanted to let you know I really like your channel. It’s very thorough and thoughtful. You also just in general have a great perspective and overall demeanor. Keep making great videos man
In regards to fight length, it's also important to remember the weight of weapons. I've noticed that lighter swords like rapiers and daggers can be more believably long.
I am a writer too, I just found your channel, and find you easy to understand (which doesn't happen very often). I am currently working on publishing my first fantasy book and you and Shadiversity are wonders and have been great helps
Thank you so so much for this! As a writer, I've always avoided or dreaded writing fight scenes, this gives me a whole new view on how to write a fight scene and I plan to try a short one today! (faved and subscribed)
I've been thinking of and building a story world for a long time now, five years or more. Thanks to your videos I've decided to write the story. It is purely a hobby, I might even put it on a website or blog for others than my friends to read.
As a writer, a big thank you for making these On Writing videos! They are immensely helpful at helping me figure out what I should do and how to make the story that much better!
Fury Road does an amazing job of keeping your interest in very long actin scenes. It constantly adds new objectives, constantly sets new things up and pays things off. It even establishes a whole bag of Chekov's guns.
I love how Zuko mastering lightning redirection also works thematically as he can’t keep the destructive energy or try to trap it within himself because it’ll kill him. Kind of like him needing to let go of his resentment and negative emotions. But he does retain close bonds and winds up nearly sacrificing himself by trying to trap the lighting anyway, knowing what could happen to him
Hi Tim, I'm not a very vocal fan but I've been subscribed for about 2 years now. Love your ATLA stuff. I'm sorry to hear about the last few videos not going as well as you'd hoped. I know I'm not personally responsible but I just want to say that I've been busy with assignments the past few months, haven't had time to pay attention to new videos. I share your videos whenever the topic is relevant though.
So Simply 1. the 3 Act Structure: Narrative Important, Power Balance Shift, and Character Development 2. Don't make it to Long 3. In War Fights use many Character Perspective 6. De-escalate - Succes or Failure 5. Make it Uniq 6. It has to be Important/ Move to the Story 7. Use the Power/Magic System Wisely 8. Don't Forgot to Grounded it in Realism; a bit at Least 9. Use the Payoff Effect Great Fight Scene Series for Example: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Game of Thrones, Avatar the Last Airbender
Part of what I loved about the final lightsaber duel between Obi Wan and Maul was that it was over in three strokes. It works really well for that story.
"Kain advanced quickly on the Inquisitor, barely giving him enough time to draw his own weapon. The still spring air rang out as the two men clashed. Both of a similar skill, they danced around each other, parrying, blocking and riposting one another effortlessly. Much of the remaining crowd had dispersed save for a few transfixed onlookers. Kain twisted free from their bind and broke Oscar’s nose with the pommel of his sword. Despite his speed Oscar was still able to get away from the following slash: a wide cut that would surely have disembowelled him. He spat out a globule of blood onto the cobbled stone." I like to think fight scenes are one of the few things I do well-ish. I used to over explain almost every individual move and they came out as a mess, now I prefer to make them short and snappy; it helps that I'm trying to be somewhat realistic too.
I recommend shortening the above fight. You seem to have the two characters swing at each other without hitting or noting any hits until the crowd gets bored and disperses, which undermines the tension right at the beginning of the scene. Also, don't use the word "effortlessly" if you are trying to build tension. I get the distinct impression that these guys are toying with each other rather than attempting to hurt each other. (That may be intentional on your end). Its a good scene, but it feels more like sparring than fighting. A real fight would be short. A minute or two is extremely long for even evenly matched masters, and you made it sound like the crowd had time to casually disperse. Also, the two seem to spend a lot of time not hitting each other. I recommend shortening the amount of time and describing a few of the blows- show the audience how they are evenly matched rather than just telling them they are. (It feels like we the audience missed the beginning of the fight. Is this part of a longer sequence?) If you do want to have a more drawn out fight, you can simply add armor. Armor can make life threatening blows into minor injuries and allow a character to get hit multiple times. It also allows you hit an opponent and have them shrug the blow off- and makes the character seem particularly skilled when he plunges the blade into a weak spot and kills the opponent. Also, to pierce armor, you often beed to get in close, grapple, subdue and stab with a dagger... or just get in close and be precise woth a shorter blade.
I remember a Bernard Cornwell fight scene that starts with the usual spiel (juuust like Bron's scene) - the faster warrior removed his armour and starts to 'dance' around his opponent. As an avid fantasy reader, I thought I knew the drill. Well, the end of the scene is actually somebody outside of the combat screaming for attention: while they were all outside settling their lord's differences in a trial-by-combat style, a unforeseen enemy showed up, overthrew the light garrison and was already burning the castle. Which, of course, has everything you mentioned: we knew about this enemy, the combat shifted power a couple of times, the battle was the reason why these 2 strong characters started respecting each other's skill - just brilliant! But I do wish that more fight scenes would end up like that! In a completely unexpected way. It's a bit too easy that 100% of battles end up... as a battle! Some could go on a tangent. Thanks for the video =)
Thanks for both of these! RUclips might not take kindly to it, but I know I speak for at least some of your other Patreons in that we love these On Writing breakdowns. Stay safe out there.
In a series I'm writting, the main character Rick Jones is involved in a number of action scenes across the series because he's vigilante who kills criminals in the streets of New York. In the action scenes, I try and build on his inner rage and brutallity. It's not a question of if he'll survive, but how much will his malicious and sadistic side will take over, damaging his psychology in some of the later stories.
@@tiaaaron3278 the animation is actually really well done it just looks ugly because they focused on making it look very fluid but they had to sacrifice the detail do it
One of my favourite SW fight scenes was the final showdown between Maul & Obi Wan. Nothing like the typical fight scenes but suitable for the characters arcs.
Thank you so much for all the tips! It helps a lot! Well, now I think it's time for me to go and finally start to write my (first) fight scene between Reno (ff7) and dear reader. Thank you again!
![On Writing: Fight Scenes! [ Sanderson | GoT | The Shining | Dragon Tattoo ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jKkKNKUK_GE/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Fight Scenes! [ Sanderson | GoT | The Shining | Dragon Tattoo ]](/img/tr.png)
![On Writing: How to deliver exposition PART ONE [ Avatar l Matrix l Game of Thrones l Harry Potter ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iq5A5bppyUg/mqdefault.jpg)
That Pirates fight scene on the wheel was amazing and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. Peak Pirates. Fight me. Wanna help? Share the video with someone who might find it helpful. #freeeducationalforall Part 1 on discussing sentence-by-sentence writing of a fight scene! >>> ruclips.net/video/jKkKNKUK_GE/видео.html
How about firearms combat scenes?
That was kinda stupid . But works coz the tone of the pirate movies are like that otherwise boo
I agree, better than most "serious" fighting scenes and still more believable than witcher's "pirouettes" from the bools, paper armour and fucked up choreography in movies
Its ridiculously awesome
Brandon Sanderson mentioned your fight scene & he said it encapsulates everything he would say about fight scenes but even better
Is he mentioning Shad as an author before he appears in the video a way of appliying the chekhov's gun?
Nice catch.
Oh almost certainly. There's no way that was an accident.
thought the same thing
He brings up Shad's book while talking about an uncommon use of chekhov's gun (magic systems)...
Of course that's gotta be intentional that he makes his own uncommon use of chekhov's guns while talking about how to uncommonly use chekhov's guns.
You certainly are clever, good sir
So in summery Shad wants to say that One Punch Man is absolutely accurate, right?
no, because people usually die after so many battles.
Omg lol 😂
In a way. If you look at the Saitama fight against Lord Boros, the level of insane strength and stamina between said adversaries is what allows for the extension of the fight. Hell, even up to the moment that Saitama colossally finishes him, most of the engagement is an endurance test of abuse between the fighters trading 'light' blows.
So yeah, from an absurd over-the-top way, it would be realistic for a 'One Punch Man' to have such short fights due to their application of raw power.
Funny enough; what Shad says there about a shield being able to prolong the length of a battle reminded me of a different anime I recently watched called Record of Grancrest War, and particularly a duel between the protagonist Theo Cornaro and Milza Kuces. Milza is basically one of the best swordsmen in the continent, and Theo... isn't. He wins by using a shield to deliberately prolong the fight and tire out Milza. One of the best things about it is that it's already been established before that this is how Theo fights more skilled opponents.
MACHICOOLATIONSSSSSSSSS
"I recorded this before I got Shad's bit, so I don't know what he said."
Aaaah, reminds me of all the group projects in school that I half-assed.
Reminds me of all the group projects in school that the rest of my team half-assed lol
Oh shit there was a group project!?
I heard that...fight scenes are complicated. Is this true?
Yep. Also, have you shared this video with the Lady that you live with? Keep being awesome.
Not if you be like water, space cowboy. 😉
"What about On Writing Fight Scenes?"
"Well, we've had it..."
"We've had one, yes! What about second On Writing Fight Scenes?"
Shadiversity AND Hello Future me is a collab I never expected, Shad has one of the most entertaining and educational content I've encountered
my exact response when he muttered those words, "*pause* wow, wooooow, wooooooooooow"
uber props
Amen
Just two kings working togther for the greater good.
Shad made a cameo in one of the Dragon vids, too... if memory serves.
"What about Fight Scene Video?"
"You already had a Fight Scene video."
"One Fight Scene Video, yes. What about Second Fight Scene Video?"
i had to check it if was a reupload
Ironically, OSP just uploaded a video on sequels.
@@hotwheels2621 I don't think that's irony (I could be wrong but I don't think I am), I think that's coincidence.
Do you think he knows about Second Fight Scene Video?
@@liamjohnston2000 Nah.
So basically real sword-fights are a little bit more like how we think of Wild West gun duels where whoever reacts the fastest and with the most accuracy will probably win in one hit.
Basically yes if at least one of them is proper swordman.. No if the two fighter have poor skill.. What can i imagine is a lot of run and dodge and insult in between
l’ve done sword fighting with heavy foam/padded swords. only one guy knew actual technique, but besides that, when fighting someone on around the same level as you, it doesn’t last very long unless you’re running away or backing off cautiously. however, the only way to win is to just go for it when you think the time is right. in that moment, they can maneuver just right and get you instead. you can prolong the fight if you’re trying to strategize or decide what you’ll do, and exchanges can last a while if neither are taking risks. but you can’t really win without charging in.
so, sometimes? but l dunno.
Duels are fundamentally different from real fights. A duel is structured, with clear rules and restrictions, where the objective is victory rather than neutralizing a threat. A no-bullshit real world fight will usually only last a few seconds.
Pretty much. Also, there is a lot of staring at each other between combat because realistically, neither of the combatants really wants to get a sword through the stomach so both are trying to convince each other to back off. At least in smaller combat situations such as skirmishes or duels.
Even in battles, you can have the two sides staring at each other until someone makes initial contact and the men on both sides of him are forced to engage. But even then there is some debate as how much of the shield wall would be actually engaged at any moment.
There is some speculation that the two lines might writhe like parallel serpents, with men engaging or disengaging depending on how brave that section is feeling.
Over 80% of casualties happen when one side has broken ranks and is running away- then they get cut down from behind (if the enemy pursues them).
Granted, there are some Greek sources that say the two lines would get into great pishing matches, with men too close to actually use their weapons.
@@GnarledStaff basically yes.. In reality war not as much as interesting as we watch on movie.. It's more slow n much more wait n see between fight because like you said, no one want to get cut with another person weapon.. There's is area that called "no man zone" between 2 army and no one want to be the 1st person enter that area (and most likely would be killed 1st)..
The Lord of the Rings has long battles but super short fight scenes. For example Eowyn vs the Witch-king has exactly one move for each character (one blow from the Nazgul, one strike from Merry, one thrust from Eowyn). Yet the scene is one of the most memorable of the entire novel.
Moral of the story: in fight scenes, size does not matter and small is beautiful.
Dude what I’m saying is that in everything small is beautiful
Boy, the difference between Tim's very precise sentences and Shad's impromptu speaking style is really interesting to watch
yes it is an intressting aspect , but iam welcoming the collab.
Me writing fight scenes: and then he smacked the other guy with the sword but the other guy moved away just in time and the gun went pew pew
But the guy totally blocked the bullets with his sword and he slashed the other guy's neck open
And he pumped his fist and yelled, "YEAH!"
The accuracy of this hurts
...and then!?
@@alonebean769 keep going...
James Norrington didn’t go out to be forgotten like this 😂😂
Norrington has one of the most tragic backstories in all of the movies. But everybody always forgets about him, because his actor got swaped between part 2 and 3.
@@fafikommander1903 um no Jack Davenport plays Norrington in all three movies
Commodore*
@@fafikommander1903 i didnt notice it
@@makaki6900 because it isnt true.
"Shad Brooks does this in Shadow of the Conqueror..."
Who? Oh, he means Shadiversity. Had me confused for a second
Did you see his video today? He has a few issues with the new Assassin's Creed game. To say the least.
It was a great video. (As always)
I'm amazed he didn't discuss the all important defensive bonus granted by MACHICULATIONS
James Smith lol
@@Russo-Delenda-Est but what about dragon!?
"If a fight has nothing to do in helping define a character, it shouldn't be there." - a friend of mine
There was a video I saw a while ago about Pirates of the Caribbean that basically stated that “Your script should _never_ just say *They fight*”
@@TheLangenator i dont now shit about screenwriting, but ive heard that "they fight" is literally the only thing the script for The Fellowship of the Rings says about the fight in Balins tomb. so, i dunno man.
@@Nutellafuerst I think that one actually is important in setting stakes and demonstrating the willingness and ability of the Fellowship to work together. It demonstrates Boromir, Legolas and Gimli's prowess in particular.
So while it's not revealing a deep truth of any character, it's still important to the collective character of the Fellowship.
TheLangenator if such a fight shows of the skill of a character so it won’t come as a surprise or plot armor later in the story then I see no harm in one fight without consequences for the character, but only one.
This is why it's common to introduce villains or antagonists in fight scenes. You can tell your audience everything they need to know about them over the course of a single fight scene.
My favourite channels collabing, best birthday gift ever
Happy birthday ani
Happy Birthday!
~ Tim
Happy Birthday! stay nerdy!
Look at that! It's my birthday too, happy quarantine b-day
Happy birthday!
I’m my opinion the fight between Maul and Obi-Wan in rebels is a perfect example of a realistic fight with multiple stages. The emotion you feel in the 5 seconds of the duel is monumental
Son of Celebrimbor Their lightsabers only clash three times, but each one of them have so much weight to them.
best lightsaber scene i ever seen
He wouldn't know anything about that. That's why it was left out
soo soo good
YES!!
When they guy was talking about how short real fights are, I kept thinking of that scene in Seven Samurai where the peasant challenges one of the samurai to a duel. He runs at him and suddenly falls over - we BARELY even see the samurai's sword move. The director Kurosawa uses this incredibly short fight to show what a boss this samurai is, and it's exciting and memorable as heck in the context of the movie. So much drama in probably the shortest fight scene in movie history. Avengers eat your heart out.
You seem a bit down in this video. So let me just say this: I really like your videos and have recommended them tô many people. You are very interesting and fun tô watch. Also, your video about mental health was great and really helpful. I am sorry RUclips buried your Chanel because of that
I cannot get enough of that Boromir Shot with the music. It's a whole tragicomedy smooshed in to one second.
Here is my fight scene.
Hero attacks. Hero’s master explains how this new hard magic system works for 10 mins and how there’s only one way to defeat the villain.
The villain puts a gun on the wall.
The hero runs away.
The princess flies into the sun and uses a soft magic system to kill the master.
The end.
I literally just clicked on the vid before reading the "ft. Shadiversity" bit.
Can you imagine the moment Shad just randomly popped on the screen playing with his sword? Damn.
Thanks.
I am not addicted to magic systems.
*Hides notes about a new idea (4 core principles und 8 advanced techniques and the many combinations thereof) under the desk*
No no, please tell me more
Didn't hide well enough if we can see you put there.
The “Complicated” meme is going to inevitably evolve into “Writing is complicated”
Ravenheart writing is complicated [gibberish shouting knight!]
EVERYTHING
IS
COMPLICATED
*insert random clip here*
Regarding sword fights, there is one in Seven Samurai where one guy charges the other with a heavy swing while shouting, and gets promptly cut down in a single move. All done to establish the personality and the skill of the victor. It is a pretty sweet scene.
Video: Ends.
Tim: "I really implore you to go watch the other video I made on fight scenes before this one."
Time travellers: "OK."
To add to the fact that real fights are shorter, Bruce Lee's scenes tend to end the match in only a few strikes, which is shorter than the traditional kung fu movie fights. Chinese filmmakers criticized him on this. But Bruce was in actual street fights. So, he knew they tend to be short.
The street fights only were short, because Bruce Lee took part in them XD
@@raikaschieck1634😂
Sad to hear the algorithm is choking your channel, I really appreciate what you make and how much effort you put into your videos. You have my money for sure
Nah it's not choking my channel. Just the last couple of videos I clearly massively underestimated. Which sucks, because Part 1 is probably the best or second best OW vid I have.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe if it's any consolation, I really enjoyed it!
How could forget about Commodore Norring? He’s like one of the most interesting characters in Pirates after all the obvious ones.
Wasn't it norrington or is that another timeline shift?
Let me leave a comment, even if I am usually a silent viewer, to help RUclips notice you.
Thank you for your hard work.
I'm just do the same here
The “forgettable captain guy” is actually former-commodore James Norrington, Elizabeth’s Ex from the first movie 😅😂😂
James Norrington was my favorite character in Pirates!
6:42 the ships full name is Rocinante, so when it's shortened to Roci, it'd be pronounced Rosi, not Rocky
See, this is what happens when you only read the books.
~ Tim
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has a nice pre-scene, in which Arthur's house is meant to be bulldozed in order to build an overpass. And just one chapter later, the entire Earth is destroyed to build a hyperspace freeway.
The beautiful collaberation of Aussies and Kiwi.... both living in places i wish i could br right now haha
I'm never gonna get enough of the "fight scenes are complicated" bit - it's just too hilarious XD
I need a 1-hour version.
12:17 Oh my god a Three Body Problem shout out. I love that trilogy. The climax of the third book broke me.
"And I really implore you to go watch that other video BEFORE this one" - said he, at the end of the video.
Because everyone starts by watching the last 30 seconds, obviously.
Shad just randomly popping up with his sword spinning humming happily was the most adorable thing I've seen in weeks. Why yes, I am in fact currently reading both of your books and enjoying them immensely!
I feel as though the point of Shad's bit, as meandering as it was, was not the quickness of a real fight but that a good narrative requires fights not be realistic to some degree
Hello Future Me: "Fight scenes are complicated"
Me: "Nah just inject more money into the choreography budget and it be fine"
Critical Drinker: "Nah, it'll be fine..."
Don’t forget the blue Lazer shooting into the sky!
And random explosions. Never forget random explosions.
And have good cinematography on the action scenes. There are some scenes from the last few years which I love but I suspect don't have the best choreography - however, they are shot gloriously. Obviously that doesn't apply so much in a written medium...
@@blokey8 You mean you can't just write things like they were shots from a movie and expect them to be good
Another important factor, especially in visual formats like games and movies, but also writing.
If you change the location of your fight, does the story change?
If the answer is no, either make the location more important or change location.
The environment itself can be a character but I like to think of it more as a weapon or tool.
If you have characters fighting near olden time barrels, why not break a few of them by slamming your characters into them.
Fighting in a restaurant? Get up on those tables.
Fighting in a factory? Put in a magic god "on" button that gets accidentally pushed and have your fighters brawl on top of conveyor belts.
The best scene I've ever seen as an example of this is Jack Sparrow vs Will Turner in the smithy shop. The characters are all over the place, even in the roof. They're getting their penny's worth for that location definitely.
And don't stop at the environment itself either. What about weather? Is it rainy? Have characters slip. Snowy? Have a snowball thrown. Foggy? Have characters disappear into the fog and come back out for surprise attacks. Hell, maybe you can combine it. It's harsh rainy weather at night, character throws mud in the eyes of another character, that character slips and the other runs off into the dark rain and comes back out with a surprise attack when the fallen character gets back up.
However, maybe you want a character that relies solely on their ability to process their surroundings rather than actual fighting. That's a pretty great way to write a brains over brawn character in the action genre to begin with, but maybe instead you want a character that's just brutal and you want to show that off. The best way to do that is have that character use as little environment as possible, in fact, make them get attacked by the environment as much as possible. The more they rely entirely on themselves in combat, the more energy they give off that they are better than everyone else in the fight.
So yeah, make sure your fight scene location is important too.
Oh, so this is what happens when two of my favorite channels collab! A great video!
Thinking about mixing magic and swords now...
Just started on my first book been drafting it for a year now so it's now official. so happy.
I think that one of the keys to making effective but relatively low consequence fight sequences while maintaining a semblance of realism just to not make characters immune to pain.
This is a common problem I notice in all sorts of fiction is that, in order to go for maximum carnage, they have characters continue fighting despite the fact that they should be all rights be dead or incapacitated by their injuries. The Punisher netflix series is the wooooorrrrst about this. When literally EVERY character in every circumstance keeps fighting despite having been stabbed a half dozen times, it not only takes the audience out of the story, but it makes it impossible to write low-consequence fights. And since having a character keep fighting despite injuries is often used as a way to showcase their strength and determination, having EVERY character be nigh immune to pain means that you need to have a character fight through truly ridiculous injuries in order for it to seem special, and that takes the audience out even more.
If, on the other hand, you have characters actually respond in a more reasonable way to injuries, you can avoid this problem. In the real world completely non life threatening injuries can still totally end a fight. The worst injuries anyone in a story I'm currently writing have sustained so far were minor and easily treatable flesh wounds. But just because they're easily treatable and not likely to be fatal unless left totally untreated doesn't mean that it doesn't end a fight. I got to end the fight, put characters through some pain, and still have them up and around within a week without it seeming totally ridiculous. Small injuries can also still have consequences if you want them to. Small cuts on your face can still leave neat facial scars, and if you're out in the wilderness injuries getting infected can be a risk if the author wants it to be. AND, the fact that I set a precedent for fights ending as soon as someone takes a moderately serious injury means that if a character DOES keep fighting despite getting stabbed, it feels like it really means something, and is showcasing how determined/crazy/whatever you want this character to be.
Finally, stop treating hitting people on the head as though it's a sure fire way to knock someone out for an hour and have them wake up with just a mild headache. It's not, at all. It's an extremely unreliable way to knock someone out that may well kill them and will most certainly cause lasting brain damage of some sort. There are better ways to have characters incapacitate someone. I personally favor just having someone get the wind knocked out of them. It's short term, but it makes sense and it doesn't cause massive lasting damage.
The second "Dugeon Heart" story actually does mention this.
In the story the main character is a Dungeon core. He creates underground spaces and fills them with defenders in order to protect himself.
The king has set up a game and a veritable army of adventurers storm into the MC's halls all seeking to reach his core (the deepest part of the dungeon) first.
However the MC is not a normal dungeon and most of the adventurers underestimate him. 3 teams are eliminated from the competition as a result of their arrogance.
One has a man take alcohol in instead of water. Getting so drunk he winds up separated and easily slain after loosing his lunch.
Another team is eliminated when their barbarian fell for a trap that had been made more dangerous (but not leathal) by an opposing team, in the end she is poisoned, confused, in pain, and hallucinating. Panicing she activates her rage ability and attacks her own team, with the MC wondering why the team wouldn't have countermeasures for such a known problem.
The last one is in my opinion the best. Whilst competing on the first and easiest floor the man in question took a small injury to his face. A cut over the eye. He ignored it as it was a minor cut that could be treated later. However it grew infected and burst in a fight on a lower floor. The pus got in his eye and the burning sensation completely crippled him right as he was about to win. His nearly slain opponent simply raised their spear as he curled over from the pain.
On a side note I highly recommend the series. Its one of the better craft focused dungeon core LitRPG stories.
I can't explain how much I love Excitable Sword Man. Love to see people being so passionate about niche stuff
What an awesome alliance! Love it when all my favorite youtubers start featuring each other!
If I ever do put out an actual book, I’m going to insist on adding this channel to the “thanks” section (dunno what it’s called in English). It’s helped me so much, I’m very happy I discovered it a year ago
In Star Wars: Rebels the fight between Obi-Wan and Maul is a perfect example for a realistic (=short) fight between two masters, which also serves as a conclusion to a loong character arc, reflecting their respective character development to that point. Usually Obi-Wan had matured to a point where he would 't felt the need for revenge and just leave him be but Maul puts his mission to care for Luke at stake which leaves him no choice.
Can I just say that you are freaking awesome? Between you and overly sarcastic productions' 'trope talks' I've basically rewrite the plot holes in my story. The sass and just all around character you have is amazing. It never fails to keep me entertained, and your voice is really soothing. I'm so glad I found your channel when I did. If I could back you on patreon, I would. And when I am able to, I absolutely will.
Thank you so much.
This Sword dude is a real nerd. So much passion and Knowledge. I love it
"Which is why Ive got someone who knows a lot more about this SWORD of thing..."
This was amazing!!!! I loved the collab part, he did a very very good job of explaining and vocally demonstrating how a fight works.
I got so much out of this that relates to my favorite hobby! I found myself taking minor notes for subtle changes during presceeding and anticeeding scenes around fights or major confrontations. This video really highlighted necessary and unnecessary stuff. I ALWAYS get something from your videos.
I hinted at it, very specifically to a specific person, and got your book for Christmas. I read it, but your youtube videos just do it for me. Your voice is unique, and you have a certain tact. The WAY you speak, is like it's scripted for emphasis and meaning instead of literally anything else.
To be random, Grian is my minecraft version of you on youtube. I watch and listen, and learn, because you speak well and deliver an incredibly clear lesson. Thank you for being one of my favorite teachers.
How can I like these two videos more than once, like a zillion times? Perfect, Thank you very much, they opened my mind!🤩
The youtube algoritme is not a friend of you clearly. This is one of the most handy and interesting video's so far. I really liked it.
YAY a collab between two of my favorite youtubers, love you both guys
I know everyone is praising the presence of Shad in this video, (which I'm very happy for), but I really wanted to give an acknowledgement for a second presence in this video that I wasn't expecting :
The Three Body Problem!
So glad that it's getting the acknowledgements I feel it really really deserves. Thank you Tim!
"That's part of what makes them...[bunch of stuff I didn't hear]"
Me: **Loudly laughing at Jack's upside down legs interrupting the fight like I'm not almost 30**
i absolutely LOVED your last video on fight scenes!!!!!! It's now one of my favorites of all time! IT'S SO HELPFUL!
I dont know if you read the comments but if so, I wanted to let you know I really like your channel. It’s very thorough and thoughtful. You also just in general have a great perspective and overall demeanor. Keep making great videos man
In regards to fight length, it's also important to remember the weight of weapons.
I've noticed that lighter swords like rapiers and daggers can be more believably long.
I am a writer too, I just found your channel, and find you easy to understand (which doesn't happen very often). I am currently working on publishing my first fantasy book and you and Shadiversity are wonders and have been great helps
I loved how you did that little foreshadowing with his book then asking him to talk about swords.
i love your honesty with regards on how well your videos do. i know a lot of us like to support great creators and teachers like you.
Oh my goodness! I love all of K.M. Weiland's craft books. They changed and improved so much about my writing.
The last section reminded me of the fight between Obi-one and Maul in Star Wars Rebels.
A few shifts in stances, a flash of blades, the end.
It was a brilliant scene, every action could be broken down and understood in a unique way befitting their characters!
Thank you so so much for this! As a writer, I've always avoided or dreaded writing fight scenes, this gives me a whole new view on how to write a fight scene and I plan to try a short one today! (faved and subscribed)
I've been thinking of and building a story world for a long time now, five years or more. Thanks to your videos I've decided to write the story. It is purely a hobby, I might even put it on a website or blog for others than my friends to read.
As a writer, a big thank you for making these On Writing videos! They are immensely helpful at helping me figure out what I should do and how to make the story that much better!
I saw Shads book and knew he was gonna show up as a guest when you got to the realism part. Nice.
Dude the memes you make at the beginning of each video are SO underrated !!!
2 of my favourite Channels ever collabing? Yes please! Awesome video
14:40
"Which is why I got someone who knows a lot more about this *SWORD* of thing"
...I see what you did there. Very clever.
Fury Road does an amazing job of keeping your interest in very long actin scenes. It constantly adds new objectives, constantly sets new things up and pays things off. It even establishes a whole bag of Chekov's guns.
Loving the way you pre-scened the cameo in this vid by mentioning Shad's book
I love how Zuko mastering lightning redirection also works thematically as he can’t keep the destructive energy or try to trap it within himself because it’ll kill him. Kind of like him needing to let go of his resentment and negative emotions. But he does retain close bonds and winds up nearly sacrificing himself by trying to trap the lighting anyway, knowing what could happen to him
Tim I cannot wait until I have a career so that I can become a patron, your work is my favorite on the site and you deserve all the support possible!
Thx Timmy x
Darth maul vs Obi-Wan, the Tattooine battle, was super short. But it worked really well.
I was thinking about this too
That episode would've worked better if Ezra wasn't in it.
I've waited for this moment for so long. Tim and Shad doing a video together! I'm so happy!
I’m glad Shad shouted you out. Always good to have another tool in my tool belt.
Why has this guy taught me more about writing than any English teacher I've ever had.
Hi Tim, I'm not a very vocal fan but I've been subscribed for about 2 years now. Love your ATLA stuff.
I'm sorry to hear about the last few videos not going as well as you'd hoped. I know I'm not personally responsible but I just want to say that I've been busy with assignments the past few months, haven't had time to pay attention to new videos. I share your videos whenever the topic is relevant though.
About to write a fight scene in a sec and this has been brilliently useful. Thank you so much!
Finding out you and Shad collaborate from time to time is the best crossover I never knew I wanted. :)
14:31 oh hey.. is this the same sword guy who goes on OSP channel as well?
Marvel: "Infinity war is the most ambitious collab!"
Shad: "Hold my Sword"
So Simply
1. the 3 Act Structure: Narrative Important, Power Balance Shift, and Character Development
2. Don't make it to Long
3. In War Fights use many Character Perspective
6. De-escalate - Succes or Failure
5. Make it Uniq
6. It has to be Important/ Move to the Story
7. Use the Power/Magic System Wisely
8. Don't Forgot to Grounded it in Realism; a bit at Least
9. Use the Payoff Effect
Great Fight Scene Series for Example: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Game of Thrones, Avatar the Last Airbender
Part of what I loved about the final lightsaber duel between Obi Wan and Maul was that it was over in three strokes. It works really well for that story.
Ooohhh yay! Two of my favorite RUclipsrs in one video!
"Kain advanced quickly on the Inquisitor, barely giving him enough time to draw his own weapon. The still spring air rang out as the two men clashed. Both of a similar skill, they danced around each other, parrying, blocking and riposting one another effortlessly. Much of the remaining crowd had dispersed save for a few transfixed onlookers. Kain twisted free from their bind and broke Oscar’s nose with the pommel of his sword. Despite his speed Oscar was still able to get away from the following slash: a wide cut that would surely have disembowelled him. He spat out a globule of blood onto the cobbled stone."
I like to think fight scenes are one of the few things I do well-ish. I used to over explain almost every individual move and they came out as a mess, now I prefer to make them short and snappy; it helps that I'm trying to be somewhat realistic too.
I recommend shortening the above fight. You seem to have the two characters swing at each other without hitting or noting any hits until the crowd gets bored and disperses, which undermines the tension right at the beginning of the scene.
Also, don't use the word "effortlessly" if you are trying to build tension. I get the distinct impression that these guys are toying with each other rather than attempting to hurt each other. (That may be intentional on your end).
Its a good scene, but it feels more like sparring than fighting. A real fight would be short. A minute or two is extremely long for even evenly matched masters, and you made it sound like the crowd had time to casually disperse.
Also, the two seem to spend a lot of time not hitting each other. I recommend shortening the amount of time and describing a few of the blows- show the audience how they are evenly matched rather than just telling them they are.
(It feels like we the audience missed the beginning of the fight. Is this part of a longer sequence?)
If you do want to have a more drawn out fight, you can simply add armor.
Armor can make life threatening blows into minor injuries and allow a character to get hit multiple times.
It also allows you hit an opponent and have them shrug the blow off- and makes the character seem particularly skilled when he plunges the blade into a weak spot and kills the opponent.
Also, to pierce armor, you often beed to get in close, grapple, subdue and stab with a dagger... or just get in close and be precise woth a shorter blade.
I remember a Bernard Cornwell fight scene that starts with the usual spiel (juuust like Bron's scene) - the faster warrior removed his armour and starts to 'dance' around his opponent.
As an avid fantasy reader, I thought I knew the drill. Well, the end of the scene is actually somebody outside of the combat screaming for attention: while they were all outside settling their lord's differences in a trial-by-combat style, a unforeseen enemy showed up, overthrew the light garrison and was already burning the castle.
Which, of course, has everything you mentioned: we knew about this enemy, the combat shifted power a couple of times, the battle was the reason why these 2 strong characters started respecting each other's skill - just brilliant!
But I do wish that more fight scenes would end up like that! In a completely unexpected way. It's a bit too easy that 100% of battles end up... as a battle! Some could go on a tangent.
Thanks for the video =)
Thanks for both of these! RUclips might not take kindly to it, but I know I speak for at least some of your other Patreons in that we love these On Writing breakdowns. Stay safe out there.
How to do a fight scene: study Lee vs Gaara thoroughly.
Eh, its a good fight, but its just 1 type of fight. There are many different types.
In a series I'm writting, the main character Rick Jones is involved in a number of action scenes across the series because he's vigilante who kills criminals in the streets of New York. In the action scenes, I try and build on his inner rage and brutallity. It's not a question of if he'll survive, but how much will his malicious and sadistic side will take over, damaging his psychology in some of the later stories.
@AmplifiedSilence Naruto vs Pein was great in the manage. But the anime ruined it with shitty animation.
@@tiaaaron3278 Hah, i loved the animation of that part. The anime did a great job on it.
@@tiaaaron3278 the animation is actually really well done it just looks ugly because they focused on making it look very fluid but they had to sacrifice the detail do it
Now that I notice it, your last two videos did not even appeared in my sub feed, and I am subscribed and with the freaking bell on
A collab. with Tim and Shad!? Best thing to happen that I couldn’t have anticipated!
Your book and videos have been helping me with my fan fiction and I'm so glad! Thank you for everything you do
One of my favourite SW fight scenes was the final showdown between Maul & Obi Wan. Nothing like the typical fight scenes but suitable for the characters arcs.
I’m glad that you make these videos even though they don’t do well. 😃
Thank you so much for all the tips! It helps a lot!
Well, now I think it's time for me to go and finally start to write my (first) fight scene between Reno (ff7) and dear reader.
Thank you again!