Elder Scrolls Lore: Ch.20 - Talos - God or Heretic?
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
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Many say Tamriel needed a man like Talos, a man who would bring peace forcibly to Tamriel. Crusading under the name Tiber Septim, Talos did just that. He brought the children of Tamriel into his Third Empire, whether they agreed to it or not.
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You know what would be awsome? Total War: Tiber Septim
I am throwing money at the screen but nothing happens.
Ezra Rhoads There's a mod for total war: medieval 2 I think
Ezra Rhoads yes
Total War: Talos
Ezra Rhoads dude I would love it if they made a Total War: Elder Scrolls as a game that CA made where you can play as the Stormcloaks or the Empire or the two famous clans of Hammerfell
And the Sovngarde thing... if Talos had been in the hall, it would have been evidence that he was NOT a God, given that the heroes in the hall, while great, were not gods themselves. Talos would likely be above the hall of heroes, hanging out with the other eight divines, wherever they are. You do get to see one Aedra, though: Tsun. He's implied to be a lesser Aedra, not like Akatosh or Mara.
You mean an et'Ada?
Special Rabbit
The et'Ada were the spirits that came before the Aedra and the Daedra. As it is, the "altar blessings don't mean anything" argument is very weak, given that the priests themselves seem to have little power to enchant the altars, and the character can make the altars himself without being a priest. Yes, he needs to have an amulet first, but that doesn't mean you need a priest in turn to make that. In any event, there is zero information in the game to suggest that the blessings come from the priests. We see Aedra show up from time to time, and we know that such a thing as the blood of a divine, an avatar of an Aedra, or even an Aedra's bow really exist. The Aedra are more mysterious than the Daedra for sure, but they truly exist in the Elder Scrolls universe.
I agree with you about that Sovngarde thing, because there are heroes, not gods. That could mean that Talos is a god.
I was looking forward to seeing Shor in Sovngarde, but he was off doing something apparently.
Dr. Banjo
Shor is actually Lorkhan.
Everyone in the comments is debating Talos' godhood
And im just sitting here doing Skooma.
nee d help with your skooma addiction call 1-800-skooma helpline
+Xzener you want a real rush ... try mixing skooma with some histsap
I am tasting colors right now
lol you funny busted
No game has a better sound track than oblivion and there never will be, something about oblivion makes me luv it over Skyrim
+Xzener Oooh.... that lovely skooma.
I don't know why, but hearing my character (or ours) being part of The Elder Scrolls Lore, as the Dragonborn of the fourth era, makes me feel like I truly accomplished something!
My deeds in Skyrim have won me (us) a place in Tamriel's history, and I find that truly amazing! I hope TES 6 remembers my (our) story!
To be honest the least important hero in main-line TES has so far been the Nerevarine who's only real contribution to history as a whole was destabilizing Morrowind and making it more akin to Imperial interests... and being partially responsible for the chain of events leading to the destruction of Vvandefal and the eruption of Red Mountain (the death of the Tribunal lead to the Ministry of Truth's fallon Vivec City, which led to the destruction of a huge chunk of Morrowind). Yep,great hero.
The other really pointless hero would have to be the Agent, who not even Bethesda is sure what he managed to do. Allhe did was make a bunch of crap happen,simultanously for some shoddy bad-writing reasoning, which just led to Hamerfell growing weaker and easier to control for the Empire.
***** True,if we're going for who did the most work to save the mortal races, The CHampion helped stop an Oblivion invasion and saved the world as a whole while the Dragonborn stopped the World Eater who had the power to destroy the world as a whole.
And if we go with the Oblivion DLC as canon,the Champion became an actual Daedric Lord in the end,restoring the balance of power in Oblivion.
Wrench Man Honestly the "dragonborn" is too over-hyped in TES lore, like everything was handed to him without him earning it. What about the Nerevarine who stoped the deadly plague in Morrowind, and was said to be a god? What about the Champion of Cyrodil (Hero of Kvatch) who saved Martin Septim and helped stop the Oblivion Crisis, basically saving the entire world?
Nobody knows those characters and they're barely remembered. I honestly hate the dragonborn of the fourth because he's so uninteresting, a person that gets their power just cause they're born with it unlike those who worked for it... It's one of the reasons older TES fans dislike Skyrim and prefer Morrowind/Oblivion far more.
***** Actually it's more because the game companies these days try to out do the other games, trying to make their game appealing to all and it makes them lose sight of what made their games great...
Call of Duty is a great example. Everyone can say COD 4 and MW2 were good, Black Ops was interesting as well but we all know what happend from there. Oblivion is like COD 4... Skyrim is like... MW3, sure it seems cool but it's just paving the way for further disappointment... *COUGH COUGH* ESO *COUGH COUGH* that game being like Ghosts...
I'm sure the analogy should help others understand my viewpoint.
*****
Actually, the Dragonborn is probably the most important Hero so far. He/she stopped Alduin from turning the Kalpa in which individuals have archieved CHIM, Lorkhan returned in form of Lorkhan and a kalpa-friendly time-god, Akatosh, was created. Seeing how he is likely a Shezzarine, while Talos is Shezzar now, he is also an avatar of the god Talos, the most powerful being in the universe, having archieved CHIM and mantled Lorkhan. Add to that that he will for sure archieve godhood later on due to him eating all those little shards of the Aka-oversoul, and you see why he is that important. Without him all of the archievements of Vivec and Lorkhan may have been massively f*cked up, and Mundus may have been kinda pointless.
The dominion wouldn't even have stepped foot in Cyrodiil if Tiber Septim was still alive on nirn.
If he actually he's reached Chim, then death probably isn't the limitation it once was. Vivec describes Chim as stepping out of the universe and comprehending yourself within it, and those who succeed can leave and enter the tower (reality) at will.
The dominion wouldn't attacked at all if talos left them alone originally.The altmer are at heart isolationist.
Thijs Tharn why are you everywhere?
T-Bone6543 unless another Breton decided to slit his throat
^ Someone obviously hasen't played ESO that predates Skyrim. The High Elves have been fighting invaders for centuries.
If Talos isn't a God, then how can I get blessings when I click the Talos' shrine?
Check mate, atheist Thalmor.
The shrines could just be enchanted by the priests. It's difficult to differentiate between magic and miracle.
QuantumHeadache
Now that's heresy you speak.
My apologies, please don't throw me in the stocks, I'm just a bard.
Herrera saurus Heresy=reason
Dude, what the hell?
They needed the blood of a god in oblivion, they used blood found in Tiber Septim`s armor, it worked, talos did became a god.
And the blessings from Talos cult to defeat Umaril the unfeathered, Talos avatar being present to Nerevarine (Along with Mara's and Stendarr's), and Vivec's statement regarding Tiber Septim achieved a certain godlike powers (so powerful that even it's actually a state higher than Aedra or Daedra)
The god like power stated by vivec was CHIM which vivec also acheived
But yeah he ascended to godhood together with the other reicarnations of lorkhan
In the end that Talos is actually a divine, but now in the same picture that the Nords in the Skyrim game thought to be.
That's why I didn't really minded with those silly "Imperial Vs Stormcloak" debate thing.
Also, It's Zenithar not Stendarr's that I wrote earlier, apologies.
I think it says a lot when the Elves rebelled against an empire, not because of oppression, not because of Racism, not because of any sort of provocation, but because they were just really butthurt.
Hay as a wood elf I'm offended
You mean just like the stormcloaks?
@@sheogorath979 Ulfric was a Thalmor sleeper agent so
The elves are angry with the human after oblivion crises that the thalmor get in power because in time of war they need battle against the daedra, the problem that the humans comited summoning daedra
@@SonWsp not exactly, but what he do making thalmor gain the upper hand for the next wave
Glad you're enjoying the episode. Those concerned about evidenced missed it is not because of an overlook but because of time. Had we included every piece of info for or against Talos' claim, it would be over 30 mins and take longer than 2 weeks to complete. Feel free to discuss those topics not mentioned and state your beliefs.
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I better get a mention in your Tribunal video.
Nerevarine? What are you doing here?
I realy enjoy this a lot. its puts perspective on the good bad and ugly.
The Hero of Kvatch Enjoying the philosophy of it all. Hey are you coming to that TES protagonist gathering next Sundas? Drinks and wenches will be everywhere. However I suggest you drink your fair share of the mead fast. Dovahkiin will be there and you know how Dovahkiin hogs the mead. Typical nord...
Nerevarine inb4 Dovahkiin
Akatosh himself says to worship the NINE
Damn Elves
Where is this from, "friend"?
+Napoleon's Mate (A.K.A Rexscout) The ten commands from the Divines.
Chi Willington OK.
+Chi Willington Akatosh is probably the biggest elf-hater in Aurbis.
+Canonreeve Oncano Depends on the belief. It's all hearsay in The Elder Scrolls, which is great and realistic. Mercedes-Benz have there own belief of what Akatosh is.
In The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, the "blood of a divine" is needed to open the portal to Mankar Camoran's Paradise. The blood used is from the Armor of Tiber Septim, which implies that Tiber Septim indeed became a god.
In The Elder Scrolls IV: Knights of the Nine the Blessing of Talos is what allows the player to follow Umaril the Unfeathered into the spirit world and destroy his very soul preventing him from being reborn in oblivion and returning again. The blessing also allows the player to return to his body afterwards, further evidence of Talos' divinity.
Shrines of Talos in Skyrim also gives blessing confirming him as God!
also when Devines speak in their name they speak in name of Nine thus recognizing Talos as 9th Devine! Elves can eat shit, they are just jealous as they got humiliated by him! end of story!
Talos guide you my friends!
+Peter C Evidence
Baron Blitz What about Wulf from Morrowind he is a war veteran who gives you his lucky coin which is a coin of Tiber Septim and later it is very strongley hinted Wulf was actually a physical manefistation of Tiber
And don’t forget the gift of charity
Not even non technically there are ten divines including magnus
Hm, that's weird the dragonborn doesn't look like the argonian I played as...
+miller repin Must be a texture issue
When we're First talking about race and dragonborn, can someone explain to me if and how other races than Nords can be Dragonborns? And has there ever been other Dragonborns than Nords?
+Tom André Svellingen akatosh didn't care about race he just decided you would be the best mortal to mix dragon blood with also the entirety of the septim dynasty were imperial but there has never been an elf/beast dragonborn until you
*" Imperial (which is basicly Nord in Cyrodiil)"*
no. the nedes and colovians that make up the empire are natives to cyrodiil. THe nords are descendants of atmorans. The atmorans invaded skyrim and fought the snow elves. The imperials evolved in cyrodill and were enslaved by the ayleids before the uprising.
*"Breton (which is basicly Nord mixture with Elf)"*
Bretons are just man and mer. Mostly nede and mer, and the nedes were imperials.
Bunker Boy Gaming I know you, oh your that's because your my other account
Every time someone in Skyrim says "By the Eight", I yell at the top of my lungs "NINE!"
Cheesycurve 54
He is the God of MAN! And we are but MAGGOTS! Writhing in the FILTH of our own CORRUPTION!
Let dead gods lie.
Same xD
Possum Soul, would you like to join the Knights of the Nine? You understand the truth, now protect it.
Cheesycurve 54 He's a proven God, but sure.
As an Imperial I have a Talos shrine amongst the other eight divines in the home I made in the Hearthfire expansion.
Indeed, imperial brother. Let's pray the nines.
same
As I went down to statues to pray... Studying about that Talos way... 😂
Funny, i only have 8 shrines in my house . . . i don't argue Talos's Godhood but he just has nothing on the other 8 divines . . . what has Talos done or rather what does he even do as a God? "God of Man" WTF does that even mean
i support the Empire and hate the Thalmor, and you can worship Talos all you like, but as far as Gods go . . . he kind of sucks
The Fractured But Whole The god of man thing is because he WAS a man in life. There is also evidence that Talos does exist, that he ascended to godhood. I would need to do my research again to detail that story as it has been a few years and I have been focusing on Bloodborne lore.
Talos is a god but Tiber Septim is only just one third of Talos. Talos is a combination of Tiber Septim, Zurin, and Ysmir whom all took the role of Talos in life at one point in time, and all of their powerful souls clashed together in death. Actually, these three souls clashing together is what caused the Dragon Break known as the "Warp in the West" AKA: Daggerfall ending. If you haven't notice, Talos didn't existed at all in the games Arena and Daggerfall. It was just the Eight Divines and nothing else. However, Dragon Break happened and the timeline was changed, causing Talos to become reality and an actual god.
So, Talos is indeed a god. Tiber Septim just never ascended to godhood in what is believed to be true. Due to timeline being rewritten and all that.
It seams to me the High Elves are jealous of Talos for achieving something that was taken from them. but that's just my opinion.
Talos is not a god. Just because Talos united Tamriel does not make him a god, The eight Divines are considered gods because they all helped in the creation of Nirn, all Talos did was unite Tamriel for a short period of time.
Erwin Rommel I respect your opinion, It's just there are evidence that suggest that Talos may have become a god. But that's just my opinion. I respect yours.
Erwin Rommel If he wasn't a god, then the ritual in Oblivion would not have worked, 'Blood of the Divine' if I remember correctly
Jimmy Jazz exactly my point.
Jimmy Jazz Perhaps it was not literal, and just needed the blood of Talos, and used the word divine to make it subtle?
Heretic would be a misused term since it is evident that the Aedra accept Talos as a God in the Divine Crusader questline in Oblivion.
+Queen Elsa not to mention the part where where his manifestation appears to Nerevarine. Not found on Sovengard(altho if you believe elfs and somehow can explain the divine blood/manifestation, you could say he wasn't honorable).
+Aski [Fin] and his blood was accepted as divine blood in opening mancar camoran's paradise and he is absent from sovngarde
And when even the DAEDRA acknowledge it, that speaks volumes.
Some such volumes are probably tucked away in Apocrypha, but _they are volumes, nonetheless._
In that case, the Thalmor are the true heretics.
The Hero of Kvatch became a god. Although he became a daedra instead of an aedra
Wait... Where did you get that?
If you complete the Summerset Isle quest in Oblivion. The main character becomes the new Sheagorath. If you do the Dardera quest of his to get the Wabbajack, he talks with Peligius III and mentions whole bunch of events that he experienced when he was the Hero of Kvatch.
sanguis bumb Your character becomes Sheogorath, the hints are right in your face during the Wabbajack quest, for anyone who paid attention to the Shivering Isles..
He because them best god, and see, if the Hero of Kvatch can do it, then certainly tiber septim did.
Vizardlord7 you mean shivering isles but yes
Of course he is divine. :D He is mighty TALOS!
Not to mention in the mind of madness quest. Sheogorath actually mentioned talos' Ascension to Godhood. Granted Sheogorath is the daedric prince of madness but this doesn't strike me as something he would lie or otherwise be wrong about.
***** You have to remember that Sheogorath is actually the hero of Kvatch (the hero of oblivion), who descended into Sancre Tor. For that, it's obvious why he would say Talos is a divine.
Gabu - San It is fair to assume that the daedric princes can sense the divines. I imagine that sheogorath would notice a new divine in the sky. Or notice that there were nine divines instead of eight.
Gabu - San The Hero of Kvatch became Sheogorath and replaced him. As a divine being he would know another one.
iammadness Well it's not sure. In the Shivering Isles DLC, you do become the Sheogorath, but when the Hero of Kvatch asks that is it possible to become a daedric prince, sheogorath (or was it haskil) answers that he doesn't know for a sure. This means that Sheogorath could be a title. Maybe he/she lived to the end of his/her life and died. Maybe the Sheogorath that you had defeated (jyggalag) was brought back to rule his realm.
We do not know for a sure. Sheogorath sure seems like a man in Skyrim so it doesn't fit in with the fact that the Hero of Kvatch could be a woman too.
Btw Talos also appeared to the Nerevarine at the Ghostgate in the form of an Imperial soldier called Wulf.
I remember that, he was the one who gave us the lucky coin!
Even if he is not one of the Divines he is still an extraordinary man with the blood of a dragon and Divine blessings. He is not like men or mer for he is at the very least a demigod.
I personally welcome Talos Stormcrown , son of Atmora as one of the nine!
+Zedi gan Talos isnt the only mortal to have become devine/ Aedra, head to Falkreath, the guy at the cemetary tells a story about Arkay once being mortal. BTW he is a High Elf.
Spacefrisian That's one elf, the Nords are an entire society.
+Zedi gan Just pointing out that Talos isnt the first in lore to become Aedra, Arkay did the exact same thing. Yet he is counted by the elves as a real divine despite of that story. Thats what iam pointing at. (eg the 8 are actually the 7 if the Thalmor would be consistent.)
Spacefrisian true, but skyrim still belongs to the nords
To not believe in Talos as a God is to invoke the wraith of Sithis
Anyone who thinks the mighty Talos is not a god; is a thalmor loving, milk drinker!
And anyone who think Tiber Septim is a God is a Heimskr loving milk drinker.
See it goes both ways. To be fair though I think the dragonborn in the skyrim game is one of the stormcloaks if we didn't have decisions anyway. Considering the imperials attempts to execute him at the start of the game and the Altmer's thalmor is trying to eliminate the dragonborn several times.
***** I will gladly embrace the love of Heimskr and milk....as long as its 2%!
walrusking14 It's 50% and 50% heimskr.
I should warn you he shouts alot during your loving embrace or whatever you call it. Sexual intercourse is the word!
~Spencer~ it's most likely that the dragonborn is neutral, because in the main story if you didn't pick a side in the civil war you get a quest called seson unchanging (or somethings like that) which forces a peace between stormcloaks and the empire.
~Spencer~ unless it was all misunderstanding and he was there to fight for the Legion. I always go legion anyways because Ulfric I feel isn’t really on the up and up. I also think that without the Cyrodil protection if Summerset wanted to they could easily destroy Skyrim. Technically speaking the White-Gold Concordant is only valid to the empire not an independent nation.
Anyone who doubts the divinity of Talos has never played an Elder Scrolls game other than Skyrim.
Does the name Wulf ring a bell? You know, Morrowind stuff.
People argue if Talos isnt a god/divine. The Daedric princes and the Divines are opposites, but a like to a sense. The Hero of K'vatch became Sheogorath. A mortal became a Daedric Prince. Tiber achieved chim (Look it up). Tiber is a part of Talos, with a lot of other people, he became a part of Talos because The Dragon Break/Underking/ A bunch of Daggerfall stuff. Tiber Septim's blood is used as blood of a divine. HE EVEN SHOWS UP IN MORROWIND AND NO ONE CAN SEE HIM BUT THE NEREVARINE; Wulf in Morrowind, possibly WULFharth, is even recognized by an oracle as Tiber Septim, since they're the same person essentially through Talos. Either way, Thalmor are anti-man elitists. They got their asses handed to them by Tiber and the Numidium, so a man become a god sparks some spite.
Though it's worth noting Talos did need an elven weapon to conquer Summerset.
I love what you're doing with the still 3D visuals!
Talos became Talos by both mantling Lorkhan and achieving CHIM (understanding that the universe isn't real, and gaining full omnipotence over it).
Michael Kirkbride (basically the creator of Elder Scrolls Lore in general) has come out saying Talos is the single most powerful entity in the ES universe.
Shayded Nope. Sithis is the strongest.
TheNesiag Sithis isn't an entity, it's a concept personified.
And even if it was an entity, Talos literally gained omnipotence and omniscience.
Shayded Actually it is. Sithis is the one responsible for the creation of Mundus (by creating Lorkhan or as nords know him shor).Sithis is also Omnipotent.And also he is the "will" of Padomay.
TheNesiag No. That's just flat out wrong and you're making shit up.
I've read all the related lore. Talos Achieved CHIM as well as combined with Lorkhan.
Even Michael Kirkbride (the LORE CREATOR of the entire series) has said that Talos is the most powerful.
Shayded Im not making shit up. Really :)
Sithis should be the most powerful deity.While Talos is the most powerful DIVINE. Sithis is neither Daedra nor Aedra he is the one true creator of Mundus*
*Fun fact: Did you know that Sithis actually created Lorkhan,who in turn created Mundus.
The words "days and nights of blood and venom" gave me goosebumps because it reminded me of Malukah's song Beauty of Dawn.
These are days and nights of venom and blood
Heroes will rise as the anchors fall
Brave the strife, reclaim every soul that belongs
To the Beauty of Dawn
I love your elderscrolls lore!! You do a great job keep it up.
You guys really brought it this time - left me jones-ing for the next episode. Bravo - And Happy belated Birthday!
I keep rewatching this series and learning new things, thanks so much for sharing your passion with us!
I would have preferred to see the Oblivion character in Imperial Legion armor (because I believe that's what they were trying to imply was his main armor), but oh well, I love all the effort put into these videos as well as the final product. Please continue for as long as you can.
images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130708053946/protagonist/images/f/ff/Hero_of_Kvatch_(default).png
I wore that Imperial legion armor during the battle of Kvatch. I later upgraded to steel armor.
The Hero of Kvatch Well they also showed him in legion armor during the trailer, but I wasn't complaining.
The Hero of Kvatch
hello me! i am you or are you me? nah im pretty shure that you are me ha! i love talking to myself!
Sheogorath godofmadness and I love you.
What, no mention that you actually meet Talos (along with Zenithar and Mara) in Morrowind?
The minute you mentioned the tribunal, I wished for a time machine to go forward in time.
I don't know if any of you guys at Shoddycast will ever see this, but this series is easily the greatest series i've watched on youtube. The amount of information is awesome, and the attention to detail is phenomenal. I can't get enough of it, and even though i'm sure it will happen one day, I hope you never run out of stuff to make videos on. Lastly, I just want to say thank you for this amazing series.
how can you dislike a series so well put together. thanks for the blood and sweet you put into this.
If Talos Isnt a god the ritual which opens portal to Paradise didnt work because you need the blood of Aedra and Mehrunes Dagon could destroyed Tamriel.Also without the blessing of Talos you cannot destroy Umaril and he would have destroyed Tamriel.Talos is a god and he is the savior of both men and mer.The elves are just jealous.
Finally someone pointed this out shooddy seems to fail in pointing out that the game itself confirms that Talos is a real god and since this series is about the Lore it should mention it not just say its a matter of debate because its both debate and fact that Talos is God
The main problem is that Tiber Septim could have risen to godhood.... But being a divine is out of the question. You have to be born a divine and be in both the human and elven pantheon. So while he may have become a god, he was by no means a divine.... So, both sides are right.
Also, it is hard to say "this proves X cause in Y they show Z" when talking about elder scrolls because they change the lore so much it is not even funny....
Zevran08 Talos, among others, mantles Lorkan, thus becoming part of the consciousness of that Divine. Talos, being the worshiped part, feeds Lorkan with prayer, and does he need it. Should all worship of Talos die, it is believed the world would end.
DJ UtkuSucu if you had the blood of the Dragonborn it would work because the ritual requires DIVINE blood and what do dragons come from? The divine akatosh! So any who came from him would be divine... including Tibet Septim
Mannimarco became divine too, you don't see any elves shoving him down everyone else's throats
I'm very surprised that you completely failed to mention The Arcturian Heresy. It's really important to read it to understand the different takes on the Tiber Septim "Mythos".
I can see how it's in their interest to make it as accessible as possible. I know when i first got into the lore i got annoyed because there were no straight answers.
It is quite easy to see why history wouldn't be so perfectly and objectively recorded though, we have a great example in our own world.
thesecondislander Indeed. Sadly they can't cover every tiny little aspect of his life and times. Ater all they didn't get into all the details of his conquer either. But with a little luck they whet the appetites of people who are willing to go into the lore and look for their own answers. To read the history and the stories and play the games with a deeper level of knowledge and deeper appreciation.
Huh...with the word "heretic" in the title, I was sure you'd go back to make a reference to the alternate version of the would-be emperor's assassination; y'know, the one that indicates that Talos betrayed his friend before the crowning and cut his own throat after....
*****
I must keep missing it then.
I was expecting that too.
I gotta say...I just flew right through season 1 and now just getting into season 2. Absolutely phenomenal job on these lore videos man! Good on ya!
SO EPIC!
Not only is the Lore awesome, but your voice and commentary is mesmerizing.
He cannot be Aedra because that mean "our ancestors," so he may be worshiped one of the divines, but by definition that would make him a daedra if the lore is to be intact.
furthermore a the diverence between an aedra and a deadra is that aedra helped in the creation of Mundos. BUT since Talos was born AFTER the creation of Mundos, he can not be a divine.
Xamorak ark He's gotta have atleast some godlike influence, seeing as you get blessings from his shrines and amulets..
Johnny Buttsecks You can get them from Daedra too.
The priest have magic and may have enchanted them.
Austin Francis I doubt a priest knows the magic to enchant an item to augment your shouts. The dragonborn him/herself cant even create a shrine of Talos without using an amulet and cant create an amulet of Talos him/herself at all; Talos was raised to godhood by the Divines.
I love it when Shoddy mention the protagonists. Nerevarine HoK and Dovahkiin are 3 of the greatest legends to roam Nirn. I would argue that all 3 rival Talos if not surpass him.
Nah, I'm a huge Nerevarine fanboy and I gotta say Talos is the biggest one of them all.
Wasn't the player suppose to be the eternal champion?
Geistlake I don't see Talos as THAT special tbh. He didn't risk his soul to save the afterlife or anything like that. In fact. he was a weak dragonborn if you ask me. He fell for the thing all Dov desire. Power and lands. To rule over Tamriel.
Talos didn't have magical powers, he had only his thum and his wits and when his voice was taken from him, the only thing that he had left was his mind, his strategical might he conquered the 9 provinces using his brains, the nerevarine hok and the dragonborn they did great things even legendary things but in the end it is Talos that is worshiped as a god, it is Talos's worship that started wars, it is Talos who people pray at night before going to bed seriously it is like comparing Jesus with God....
My Nerevarine was... different.
TALOS IS A GOD!
Agreed!
No he's not he was a great man not a god
Therealsnufkins Fender Well maybe.............
Therealsnufkins Fender
He is, the man literally transformed Cyrodil from endless jungle to rolling hills. Pretty godlike.
Lightscribe225 And he is the most powerful being in the Godhead's dream, as he achieved CHIM.
I'm so glad you covered talos' history. I was a little confused on him until now. I love all of these videos
I have been waiting for a video on the Tribunal since early season 1! Thank you, I'm so excited!
Another great episode. It's great how much work you guys put into those. I don't get why anyone would downvote them. What kind of videos do they upvote at all?
Gosh, I loved this video. I am SO going to paraphrase the shit out of it in my fanfiction (with due credit, ofc). Finally a logical way to convince my MC (one of my Dragonborns) to side with the Empire, aside from my classic "but Stormcloaks are dicks, yo."
Talos wanted unity of the races, and the Stormcloaks with their "Skyrim is for the Nords!" go against his wishes. I think his priority would be more towards his vision than towards people worshiping him.
For some reason when I watch this lore series it makes me want to clean my room up O.o
Now you know the secret to cleaning your room when your too lazy.
gravekeeper101 *clears throat* FUS! *sends all the clutter under the bed* Thaaaaaaaat's better.
Totally understand that. I just finally got enough motivation to sweep my room for the first time in weeks while listening to this. Some magic.
Keith Watson You put two asterixes around two words and they remained the same. Every time I put aterixes around words, they get bolded. Are you a wizard?
blackkakari
o3o Huh... I have no clue how I did that honestly... I can't remember >.
Love your work guys :)
Like half of the stuff you say I already know, but then, there's always something new. Plus these videos looks great and the narrator has such a good voice!
I can't wait for when you'll do Pelinal Whitestrike, my favorite person from the history of Tamriel.
Keep up the good work ;)
(English is not my native language and I don't speak english well, so sorry for that)
AHHHHHHhh I'm so excited for the Tribunal. Good job on this video, a very balanced argument and a good summary of such a broad and deep topic.
I do believe that Talos was a Breton, but he did become a god and was a great emperor.
breton? i thought he was from atmora?
Justanotherdude Look at the Elven point of view of Talos, I don't believe in most of it. Only the Breton part, Kynareth actually called Talos a man-mer. Or it was another divine that is normally described as a female.
There's a book an skyrim that says talos wasn't that tall which means he couldn't have been a nord because nords are naturally tall since he wasn't are tall. But the. But the book also said he had white hair and around the age of 40 or 60 which means he must of had blonde hair which most nords have I don't know what the book was called good luck finding it piece of paper
+Error Chaos, I do not get what you are saying. Learn and recall your lessons from your primary school, or simply return where you mutter and accuse your teacher for learning about nothing.
Because height NEVER varies.
The value of a man can be measured by the length of his beard.
Is it possible that the Dovahkiin of the 4th era was Talos reincarnated to restore order at a time when Tamriel was on the brink of destruction? Seems reasonable to assume right?
No. The Dovahkiin is not a reincarnation of Talos, he's a reincarnation of the god Shor. However, as pretty much every Dovahkiin can be seen as reincanations of Shor, you could say that General Talos himself was reincarnation too.
"Wulfharth, Tiber Septim, and Zurin Arctus can no longer be regarded as separate individuals, but part of the same enantiomorphic Oversoul [called "the Three in One"] that makes up the deity known as Talos, filling Shezarr's/Shor's empty place in the Imperial pantheon." From the UESP wiki. Wulfharth himself was a Shezzarine (incarnation of Shor), that we know. However, Talos was too, along with Miraak (though unoficially). So yes, you CAN assume that Wulfharth and Talos were Shezzarine at the same time. Oh and btw Miraak was probably not a Shezzarine, though he is strangely considered a "Dragonborn" (even though that's not the right description for him).
***** Indeed, the Greybeards informed the main character of Skyrim they are unaware whether he/she is the only Dragonborn of this era
TacoHawk76 I took it as a hint to their latest and fianl DLC, Dragonborn. Miraak being the other i assume (Haven't even finished the story yet lol)
Lol sure... If Talos was a khajiiti woman or a Altmer male... Yeah alright, sure... buddy truly that is what I call a "reincarnation" of a Breton-Nord mixbreed man... Just no, the Dovahkiin is... Just that... Dovahkiin, hero of that era, last of his kind... Well counting out Miraak of course. He's not Shor, not Tiber Septim, he's not some reincarnation...
Edit: Shit.... I'm sorry just noticed this stuff was over 4 years old... Man I feel the fool now.
You guys are doing a fantastic job with the lore series, this one even gave me goosebumps. Of course now I'm itching to know why Tiber Septim went out of his way to avoid confrontation with the Tribunal. Keep up the good work!
This is a really cool story, I didn't know there was so much behind the Elder Scrolls series! The story of Talos in itself is fascinating and the way you tell just adds so much more
Loving this lore series
Talos is a god because when you do the Martin Septim quest in Oblivion, you needed the essence of an Aedra in order to complete the portal, and the only one they had access to was the blood scraps on Talos' mortal armor in Sancre Tor.
If he wasn't Aedra, a god, this endeavor would have never worked.
End of story.
Dominion: “Nooo you can’t worship one of your own people as a god! That’s stupid!”
Empire: “whos that?” *points at Syrabane, Auri-El, Trinimac, and Y'ffre*
Dominion: ...........t....you seee...w-well i-i-it’s...t-that ...that’s c-completely different!
Empire: ...really?
Dominion: ................... *crosses out section banning talos*
This is quite good, got a chuckle out of it too.
it doesn't help that Trinimac got turned into Daedric stool for that matter.
But Malacath's a good Orc-dad all the same.
your videos get higher and higher in quality every week. Keep up the good work.
I must say that this and Ch. 17 has allowed me understand the Altmer so much more. Much thanks for the education, ShoddyCast.
Did I miss something or did he fail to mention that Tiber Septim erased the jungles of Cyrodil from existence with his magical Chim god powers?
So it is very sensible to speculate that the Dragonborn of the 4th era may become the next Talos in a sense, he could quite easily call upon the loyalty of the remaining dragons and his Thu'um triumphed over Alduin's and he has the soul of a Dov, and as Paarthurnax said. the will to dominate is in the blood of all Dov
I would burn the summerset isle to a cinder for the arrogance of the Thalmor and to show those damn high elves that the age of the elves is over and it is now the age of man
That is the idea I have in mind for my dragonborn, only with a few twist involving my dragonborns past ancestor The Hero of Kvatch. , and how she took down the Thalmor.
Talos is actually reincarnation of Lorkhan (god of the people). It may sound like a crazy shit, but actually its true. According to official lore Lorkhan/Shor/Shezarr/Sitis reincarnated several times. And each time he was helping people to fight with elves. First time he started war after creration of Nirn and was killed by Akatosh's champion. After that humans were enslaved by elves, but Lorkhan reincarnated as Pelinal Whitestrake and helped Alessia to start rebellion against elves. He was so strong that eliminated the entire army's just by himsels. He was killed during rebellion after he captured White-Gold tower. Later he was ressurected by Dagoth Ur and he started another war with elves (dunmers) and was killed by Nerevar.
(Unofficial Lore starts): Hundreds of years passed and he was reincarnated again, as Septim/Talos, emperor of the humans, who conqured Cyrrodil. Thats why in game Talos can give you blessings, after you pray to him. Because he wast just human, but he was Lorkhan/Sitis/Shor, God creator of Nirn.
Thalmor elite knows it, thats why they want to eliminate Talos from Gods panteon. They belive that because people worship him, hes powers gets stronger and it makes impossible for souls to leave Nirn (they belive that all souls trapped in Nirn just like in Hell).
***** No, that's Jubal lun-Sul, a Dunmer in the 5th Era.
***** c0da.es
:)
***** What is?
***** What does the Last Dragonborn have to do with that?
***** That's what I thought.
Dude, thanks for these videos, all of them, they're so enlightening
I'm glad your looking into the Tribunal, they interest me most when it comes to TES lore!
All hail Talos, the god of man!
I do believe Talos ascended into Godhood.
I'll start...
Long live the Empire!
Death to the Thamlor!
There are only eight! The thalmor and late Titus Mede II say so!
yes but Akatosh say worship the nine
+Grammaticale Mafioso Will you listen to some greedy emperor and egotistical elves or the God of time himself?
+jaharned1 neither, I'd much rather spend my time in shivering isles
You guys are so amazing! I sincerely value your efforts, and cannot wait for the next episode! Keep up the good work!
Great episode as always and great timing with the announcement of the Talos Shrine Statue (which I have pre-ordered)
If Talos ascended, he is a God of man.
Being a God of man would be a literal contradiction to being a god.
+Super Silver 109 no, because it is exactly what Talos is, a mortal turned into the hero god of mankind.
Technically, Talos was created and never ascended. For the record, Talos as a god never existed for a very long time even after Tiber Septim's death, because Talos, the god, isn't Tiber Septim. Tiber Septim is just one of the three powerful human beings who's soul makes up Talos.
It's a long story but the very well know Dragon Break known as the Warp in the West, which is Daggerfall's confirmed ending, was both caused by Talos and is what created Talos in the timeline... It's a lot of time-stuff.
Arcturian Heresy is shit.
The biggest deficiency I see with this series is that there is not even any MENTION of Wulfharth. Tiber Septim is not Talos. Tiber Septim, Zurin Arctus, and the real Ysmir, Wulfharth of Atmora make up Talos. Talos didn't even exist until Daggerfall when The Underking (Arctus and Wulfharth stuck in one body) reclaimed his soul(s) from the Mantella to become reunited with Hjalti (Septim) and form Talos. The Numidium was powered by the soul of Wulfharth and perhaps Arctus as well because he was Shezzarine: an aspect of Lorkhan. I would recommend the book the Arcturian Heresy for a full depiction of Talos.
Exactly.
Why should I believe the Arcturian Heresy when it's the only source that states that this is what happened?
Talos doesn't exist before Daggerfall. Dragon Break, all powers in Illiac Bay get Totem of Tiber Septim, including Underking. And suddenly there's Talos...this didn't just happen out of nowhere.
I would believe the Arcturian Heresy because I doubt that the people at Bethesda would have just added it without reason. Plus there is some truth and falsehoods behind all of the lore in TES.
R: A Person you seem like you know heaps about elder scrolls was wulfhearth dragonborn or was he just a tongue
they didnt mention that the thalmor just wanted to take hammerfell and launched a decoy invasion of cyrodil to pull imperial forces away from hammerfell. only the elves had such amazing success in cyrodil that they thought they might as well go ahead and try to take out the empire all together. they fought all the way up and took the imperial city and held it for some time before imperial reinforcements from skyrim pushed back surrounded the city and retook it. it was then that the elves questioned the cost of continuing the war and accepted peace on the conditions of the white gold concordat, which includes but definitely was not solely the banning of talos worship. the treaty was meant to destabilize the empire and give the thalmor footholds and methods of spying in all the empires territory, of course these gains were excused to be for enforcing the talos ban. the elves dont care nearly as much about talos as they do about power.
This Lore arc wasn't meant for the Thalmor, it was meant to discuss Talos. In the grand scheme of things the Thalmor are inconsequential to his story.
I love when I'm looking for a random ES or Fallout topic and I find a shoddycast vid iv never seen
This one gave me goosebumps, you guys do a fantastic job with the lore series. Of course now I'm itching to know why Tiber Septim went out of his way to avoid confrontation with the Tribunal.
Well in hindsight, I could see how people don't think Talos is a real God. But, I recall the Divine Crusader using "The Blessing of Talos" spell to battle Umaril the Unfeathered in the sky above. So suck it Altmari Dominion.
Very Diplomatic of you
i also recall the great divine crusader going to many caves and dungeons of cyriadell and killing all inside. even the monks felt his wrath.
Monk: oh who is that, is that you Stenddar?
Me (Knight of the 9 Divine): No its me, the Great raider of dungeons and such ... please pray to you favorite god... you will need him
***** How do the people of Tamriel know of the divines? Because the divines make themselves apparent. That, and their counter parts, the Daedra refer to them all the time, and the Daedra love interacting with mortal lives.
lilHippo That sort of random killing in Oblivion would prevent one from gaining blessings at a chapel.
er, "Aldmeri Domion" Because the Aldmer were ancient elves that the mer on Tamriel are descended from.
The issue of whether Talos is a true god or not is completely irrelevant. If the people who worship him believe he is worthy, that's all that really matters. Any group who would try to ban any religious order that does not actively harm others is wrong, period.
That being said, I have to side with the Imperials in the official ban of Talos. It was the only way to end the war with the elves. Even with the ban, it only seems to have affected the temple in Solitude and the smaller towns. If you go to the bigger cities, like Riften and Whiterun, you'll still find shrines to Talos there. It seems to me that the Empire itself still allows the worship of Talos to take place as long as it doesn't draw the attention of the elf supremacists.
The Redguards were able to repel the Dominion, is it reasonable to assume that the Empire and Redguard forces combined would have been able to conquer the Aldmeri?
+Stephen Jamieson That is why I joined the Imperials, but still have a shrine to the NINE divines in my home in the Hearthfire expansion. Tullius hinted at another war with the Aldmeri Dominion. Seriously, who is going to listen to their "logic." They claim to have once been gods but are now like this. They think a mere man cannot become a god? Sounds very egotistical to me. One of my greatest pleasures is coming acrossed a travelling group of Thalmor... Hircine, Molag Bal, Boethiah, Mehrunes Dagon, etc. Would be VERY proud of my handiwork.
No. The Thalmor won't let their island fall to the Imperial hands who did them so much harm again. The Empire under Talos was only able to conquer the Summerset Isles because of the Numidium.
Maybe they couldn't conquer it but the war would have ended in favor of the empire rather than the aldmeri dominion.
If you side with the Elves in general and help them ban Talos, you are potentially supporting the possible destruction of the timeline itself. If Talos is ever removed, his Divine's death will most likely caused another dragon break, causing time to undo itself and be rewritten... Which is really just a theory but since Talos's creation in the 3rd era what caused the LAST dragon break in history, his death can easily cause another.
Great Videos :)
But these 3 episodes about Talos are almost exclusively the orthodox Nordic version of things.
How is there no mension of Wulfharth? and so little about Arctus?
one hell of a series good job man.
Do I sense an episode on the Tribunal?! Keep up the great work ShoddyCast!
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY TALOS!!!!
Talos is not a god he is but a man and to worship him is blasphemy.
Seeing my character is bosmer I guess I just contradicted myself
But you've gotta like talos
I'm a Breton and i've lost so much family to your cretin elve brothers.
TALOS THE UNEERING! TALOS THE UNASSAILABLE!
Since first playing Skyrim, I never liked the Thalmor. All they care about is subjugating the entire world under their heel.
Which explains why they relish in the Imperial/Stormcloak war. What I wouldn't give for Talos and the Dragons to lay waste to the entire Aldmeri Dominion
God
~Rises her paw in agreement~
Medusa Mouse Roleplaying - Not even once
Agreed.
Still a god.
the tribunal is next? AWESOME!!! Love how accurate this lore series is
These elder scrolls lore vids r awesome thanks so much for keeping this going guys
lorkhan = Prometheus?
Na m8 that film were shit
+Molabobby he means the Greek god, not the movie, which by the way was awesome m8
+Bobby Smith u giving me batty chirps bruv I'll knock u out I swear on me mum
I'd say it's more like:
Lorkhan = Epimetheus
Magnus = Prometheus
Lorkhan didn't seem to have much forethought, as he did not see the creation of mundus ending with his execution, while Magnus did and just gtfoed.
I' popping in here again to ask: Will you guys ever do a Lore video on the Dragon Priest?
***** They appeared in arena, if i'm not mistaken. You had to travel to labyrinthia and they were mentioned.
the nords had been worshiping Lorkhan\Shor since they were in atmora why would the elves care so much about Talos worship
Really it's just their 'Casus Beli' in actuality I'd bet they just want to rule Tamriel.
Gibbed Guy and make humanity extinct and unmake the world
the awesome one They want to remove Talos worship to remove man from the heavens. They want to go back to godhood and they will exterminate humans to do it.
Cuz Lorkhan was "dead" (inactive) God. Talos is ALIVE version of Lorkhan
The elves hate Lorkhan and Talos represents Lorkhan having mantled him. They believe Lorkhan is responsible for the mortal plane by tricking the other Aedra in giving up themselves to become the Earthbones. Elves view themselves as the same as the Aedra, (Our ancestors), just to a lesser extent. To them the mortal realm of Nirn is a prison and Lorkhan is responsible for putting them there.
The story quest "Blood of the Divines" pretty much confirms that Talos is a god in some way. Not necessarily that he is a higher Aedra like the other 8 divines, but a god without a doubt.
I like how you keep the series up :)
10/10 voice my life please
If any of you played oblivion... You a would know if he was divine, I mean if you played the main story line. Also the eight and one, the knights of the (nine) unless I am missing another god talos reached divinity
Talos' absence from Sovnvgarde could be explained by his dying at the age of 108, rather than on the battlefield.
from the "elderscrolls.wikia"
"Warriors who have proven their mettle in battle arrive in Sovngarde after death"
Doesn't say died in battle. Jurgen Windcaller was the first greybeard and he is in Sovngarde! I believe Talos proved himself allright conquering all of Tamriel and more
I do agree with you there - that you don't have to actually die in battle to go to Sovngarde. But I have heard conflicting opinions on this, so for all I know it may well be a valid explaination.
how about Jurgen then?
Well even the Greybeards will attack things like Trolls and other monsters, so that could be classified as 'battle'.
I don't know exactly how he died, so maybe he was killed 'in battle' fighting a Mudcrab or something, and so Shor had no choice but to let him into Sovngarde?
No, I'm not a child.
It's a little thing called 'humour'. You won't get far in life without it.
Plus, my point is still valid - dying in battle includes dying to monsters, and thus technically grants entrance to Sovngarde - assuming you need to die in battle in order to enter Sovngarde which, as I said before, is questionable, but some TES fans seem to hold that belief, and I assume they must have gotten that idea from somewhere.
"What the rebels like to forget is its the empire keeping the dominion out of Skyrim" Remember that before you choose.
They’re actually fighting to keep the Thalmor in Skyrim.
This is a beautiful series, great work!
now i regret joining the Imperials, i hate the thalmor, HAIL TALOS!
Funnily enough his selfishness is what made him into a God if it wasn't for him being a butcher a liar and traitor he would only be a man so his ambition led him into the path of CHIM which allowed him to assert his existence into Mundus and mantle Lorkhan also Talos is a fusion of three people Tiber Septim was only one of them. CHIM is essentially enlightenment through narcissism and using this he walked five of six paths required for it and by actually doing this he is actually much more influential or stronger than the Aedra since the Aedra only manifest through Mythopoeia since he acquired this he no longer needs mortal acknowledgement which is the reason he is in C0DA. If you think that Talos doesn't deserve to be a god then to bad since all the other gods are no better and Tamriel is built to be the arena so that enlightenment through violence can be achieved which is the reason Lorkhan tricked the Aedra to make it in the first place. All that Talos was in the end was just doing what Tamriel was built for just like Vivec when he achieved his apotheosis and we all know he wasn't exactly benevolent you can thank him for the Red Year. To me all the Thalmor are doing is not ending the Kalpa they seem to me be more of the cause to its reset just turning the wheel back to start since returning back to the Dawn is exactly how all Kalpa's start they don't even know that Talos is beyond that now.
YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THIS VIDEO
darksoul517
I hope this comment get more likes
all the skybabies are retarded fans who know nothing
and shoddycast is basic asf
darksoul517
Kirkbride's out-of-game works are fanfic until/unless the games MAKE it otherwise.
Cry me a river.
@@reidparker1848 Thank you.
I love this series
Another master piece by shoddycast
Think that one was my favorite yet... Great work!