Have Stargates Become Pointless?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- With hyperdrives becoming faster, there they leaving Stargates in the dust?
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Wait, of course they've always been pointless, they are ROUND...
Chevrons are pointy. Checkmate.
Ok... DAD!
Hexagon bestagon.
Ha!
Circles also have infinite points (vertices) depending on whose maths you're using.
Stargates have a major advantage when it comes to exploration: it's a near-guarantee that the world is (or at least was) habitable. And even with ship-based exploration, it has a use. An exploration ship would carry a supply of stargates, and would place one on any candidate worlds. You can get a significant amount of supplies, equipment, and personnel through in a short time, allowing an outpost to be set up before the exploration ship continued.
Huh, carrying Stargate around and placing them on useful planets like seeds…
sounds familiar…
😂
near instant colonization also
well, in stargate atlantis, you could step through a gate and... land in orbit. without even a dialing device.
@@robertheinrich2994 in atlantis they explained this as part of the wraiths actions to prevent culling worlds from communicating outside and allowing easy access for ship based use for the gates. This allowed the wraith to isolate and prevent rebellion when they began hibernating due to the lack of sustenance for how large the wraith population had grown
@@unadultratedtrini okay, makes sense that the wraiths would do that.
Using the Ori Supergates you could combine them. Set up a Colony, build a Supergate somewhere nearby and then you could send ships through for supply/trade etc. May take us awhile to get to the point where we could construct them on such a scale but, the possibility exists in the SG universe. I'm sure many others have brought up this point lol😀
Its possible there could only be one active supergate per galaxy, just like there is only one active stargate per star system.
@@nitehawk86 Plus supergates are expensive to build. And not in the sense of building material, but activation. You need a black hole every time you activate it.
Who needs a Supergate? Atlantis has a wormhole hyperdrive, which is essentially 'gate-speed, but on a city-sized spaceship'...
@Paul Chaisson true, but it got burned up in the jump to Earth. And I read that the writers only introduce it as a plot device to get Atlantis to Earth. Which is why they burned it out.
You could use the Asgard beaming technology to beam people and objects through a Stargate. That would work for objects too large to physically fit through the gate itself, or large amounts of people and things instantaneously.
Not sure if that’s possible with beaming tech, but would be interested to see if it does work that way.
@@sg-24 The gate passes energy just fine. Beaming tech is just converting matter to energy and back.
@@sg-24 Merlin proved it is possible in The Quest twoparter.
@@the11382 that was build by Ganos Lal, not Merlin.
Excellent idea!
Providing the beam
can be narrowed
down to fit.
But it makes sense.
the amount of cargo or people you could get trough the gate by train is just stupendous.... you would need truly massive fleet to offset constant instant access with no apparent limit on how fast stuff can travel trough it.
The scheduling really becomes a much bigger issue than the capacity at that point, yeah.
Although… probably best to use maglev trains. I know I wouldn't want to be responsible for rail alignment at different gates.
…And how would train interact with the gates' buffer-and-send architecture, anyway? Would they have to buffer the whole train before transmitting any of it? Would this run into capacity limitations?
@@DaraelDraconis you're right, people had to go all the way through. Someone could stick their hand in and hold up the gate but their arm didn't actually go through. But I think I recall a puddle jumper getting stuck once partway and rematerializing partially but it's been a long time...
@@AkronBaja Yep. And the explanation was that the gates used a subspace buffer to collect an entire object before sending it, since transmission of matter is one-way and the Ancients didn't want someone who flinched to chop bits off themselves!
Anyway my point is that this raises questions about a coupled train and just how much the buffer can hold. Then again, maybe somewhere hidden in the control channels is an immediate-send mode for just such a purpose.
@@DaraelDraconis No, I remember that much but there was an instance with a puddle jumper that malfunctioned going through the gate and got stuck because it's little engines didn't retract all the way and scraped its forward momentum to a halt. Most of it materialized on the other end of the gate, but not all of it and it's butt was stuck so if the gate shut off the crew would die in space. I want to say the loading ramp was still on the other side, but maybe it was still in the buffer?
@@AkronBaja I may be mixing it up with another episode but I think one side was in the buffer and they had to work out how to get the gate to expel the contents before they got overwritten by a different wormhole connection?
I think you are missing a few points here.
1. A Stargate can hold a connection for half an hour. If you have matching containers lined up with antigrav, you can send materials through that only incredibly huge ships could match.Say, it takes a ship one day there and back to deliver a shipment and say you can send a container through every (let's be generous) minute, that would be 2880 containers which you would still have to beam up to the ship and down again. Considering a delivery of this size would need antigrav to be delegated anyway. Aside from that, a delivery through a Stargate is a very sure thing. Or more sure than one with a ship as ships can be much easier stopped or at least delayed.
2. Considering that Asgard Matter Replicators are available, i.e. like the replicators from Star Trek, and power generation is becoming a smaller problem, you don't have much freight to transport anyway. Given time you can construct everything on location.
3. I'm pretty sure that the Ancients have found a way to do this and with Asgard technology they should be able to figure it out, it should be possible to code Stargates so they accept incoming wormholes only from a specific Stargate. We know that wormholes can jump if there are several Stargates on one planet. Coding them would allow a civilization to operate Stargate Nexus Stations were several Stargates at once can be operated. Add some Stargates for emergencies, it becomes very unlikely that any colony won't be able to reach Earth in an emergency. Mind that this allows a Stargates Nexus Station to be placed all around a Star System, making any invasion of a planet through the Gate Network rather unlikely, especially as you can simply destroy the station in an emergency.
4. In the long run it is probably more economic to build more Stargates and code them (as in 3.) than building enough ships, considering the size of the galaxy. Ships won't be useless by any stretch of the imagination, but making Stargates pointless? I don't think so. How Sure, you can build ships to be controlled by only 1 crew member, but so can a Stargate and training to use a Stargate and it's security protocols will be faster than for a ship.
Considering colonies, it would probably be best to have a ship deliver an orbital station that is used as a base for the colony and is equipped with a Stargate, a Asgard matter Replicator, , transporter, shuttles, weapons and shields to defend the colony as well as a backup Stargate to be put on the planet in case something happens to the orbital station. Settlers would arrive through the Stargate and beamed down. Containers could be brought in that are meant for temporary housing. I'm sure it's possible to have them fold out to create accommodations that are larger than the original container. Add some imaginations for more possibilities. Like one or more containers being a fully stocked clinic and so on.
you could line up a special train on tracks and then just drive though at a high speed, could probably get several thousand containers and a few hundred passenger cars though in 30 minutes, use some antigrav to lighten the containers and a standard loco could pull a serval mile long train at high speed (record for a 'unmodified' high speed train is ~300mph),
With the tech SGC have you could have a maglev track with a 150 mile long train cruising though the gate at 300mph, which would be about 19,800 containers, which is more then the average cargo ship
also I imagine you could backwards engineer the gate and had multiple 'local' gates on a planet/solar system
Yeap! Just need some Ikea ingenuity to get folded housing to the new colony xD
There is a fanmade story that uses it in a simmelar way. Just send trains trough,
Plus it will always be a super strong military object. Want to ground invade a planet. Beam a stargate down somewhere away from enemies and just flood in an army.
@@mbos14 or other option, put stargate in orbit and fire a tungsten orb with a snail sealed inside through the gate
Hell, you could run a narrow-gauge train through one! Or a whole convoy of medium-sized trucks
I mean that’s like asking if your back door is pointless if you can just walk out the front door and walk around to the backyard. You don’t need it back door, but you know if you have direct access something that takes a fraction of the time. Use it. It’s just another tool to use
yep it is a dumb argument.
I think the reason why the Ashen weren't traveling actively around with their ships wasn't as much because of their ship speed. Though it might be part of the reason. It's more likely that they weren't as interested in it by their nature. Their method of conquest takes decades, possibly even longer. They are patient and methodical. They would thoroughly explore the area around them and take every resource they can use there, because why make the expense of traveling to another solar system if your own have what you need. It's also less risky to stay near your home.
Making use of the stargate to travel further would be interesting, because it would potentially allow to travel further without the investment needed for ship travel.
If a civilization can create stargates, then the size of the gates would be a bit less of an issue, as the Ori showed that bigger gates are possible.
Another possiblity could be to combine the beaming technology with the gates, essentially using the beaming technology to collect what is to be sent from somewhere and then send it through the gate to a receiver on the other site. That would make size pretty much irrelevant, you probably wouldn't even need to be anywhere near the actual gate as well and the gate would only need to be open for a very short time making scheduling a lot easier.
So I would say a lot of the downsides of gatetravel could be mitigated with just the technologies shown in the series.
That's actually an amazing idea. If you could beam through a gate then you could conceivably just have tiny little gates and fit anything through them. They'd be totally OP. Who needs a fleet of costly, giant, crewed space-worthy ships flying everywhere when you can just have a bunch of little micro gates constantly connected to different planets allowing instant beam travel back and forth?
There's a huge difference. A massive difference. Ships are great but they're slow, have a schedule to keep and are prone to difficulties en route. You can't just send a ship somewhere because of one person or a group of people because it throws off a lot of planning, logistics and so on. Gates are more of a long-range teleportation device. You can live in Colorado, go to work in the Pegasus Galaxy and be home for dinner.
I think something to consider is that there's an assumption here that any off-world colonies would *want* to have all of the same infrastructure that we have here on Earth. Of course there'd be a great desire to have water/plumbing, electricity/power, but it doesn't necessarily follow that colonies with tall skyscrapers and huge industrial or business centres would be the desired end product.
This would probably be especially true if your colonies were being set up to be agricultural- or mining-based, depending on what equipment you might want/need.
If you were to ask a lot of people these days about if they'd go and be part of one of the first off-world colonies, and it meant you wouldn't have to go work in an office at a computer working long hours to pay for a house you barely live in, there's quite a few that I think would say yes. Ask those who want to live sustainable lives by growing their own food on their own farm, and have a few solar panels set up for electricity.
Other things to consider have to be what's required to transport personnel on a ship.
Firstly, there's the cost of building the ship itself, along with supplying it with enough trained personnel (which also suggests an education system specifically for those job roles). Then there's food/water/oxygen/healthcare just for those people for the required trip, along with extra in case of emergencies.
Then you have to factor in what every additional living-being coming aboard is going to need of those things, in addition to the 'permanent' crew. In addition, there's whatever cargo needs to go along with them to wherever they're going.
I'm fairly certain at one point Ancient/Asgard technology is shown as being able to beam data through a Stargate. Just put everything in a buffer, beam it through, and have it be 'unpacked' on the opposite site. Then there's the whole matter-synthesisers shown in the last episode of Stargate that we got from the Asgard.
TL;DR - Stargate are good for taking people/living beings, ships are good for taking cargo, since non-living cargo doesn't need to have those four things accounted for, unless you can beam the data through a Stargate to be reassembled on the other side, in which case ships only really become useful for attacking/defending from other ships, or exploration/science in space in general.
Also, don't assume that every colony is going to *want* to be exactly like Earth.
Having human colonies would be like the 2001 episode where it is like an airport hub
Stargates are basically long range tranporters that digitize, move that data across lightyears and reassemble.
Stargate tech taken to it's most advanced conclusions would be to transport entire realities across the multiverse.
I mean it can be used to travel to other universe, but I wouldn’t say that was its primary function.
I think the main points mentioned in the video are all great and reasons Stargates will never be obsolete. For cargo it wouldn't be that hard to modify puddle jumpers to tow a shipping container. With a little engineering you could take the weapons pods out of a Puddle Jumper to expand the interior and make it longer as well to essentially become a flying shipping container and also be repurposed for other things. Those could easily transport massive amounts of goods and people through the gates, especially since each jumper could load its own gate address.
Stargates will become obsolete when doorways go obsolete.
So a Gate with a train built to go through it.
I wonder how much data the gate can hold to reassemble on the other side correctly.
Like can it hold 3 train cars or 50 train cars?
Can you imagine doing that through the McKay-Carter Gate Bridge with a full train load about 2 miles long.
Well the 24 hour quarantine in the middle may cause an issue...but still the possibilities are awesome.
You could build a train that takes 20 minutes to go in
I think also what people don't get is that a puddle jumper could literary cost like 50% of the GDP of a civilization for 50 years to make a few of, there is a misconception that it might be the ford van of the ancients, its actually a good design. it looks Ike a i-van, that must mean it is mass produced from factories. Could be cottage industry of hyper advanced systems made by craftsman that just don't scale made with the exotics of exotics. IMO that is the amazing thing about the show, and people don't realize that there is tech like that. WE don't have alot of it though. ground optical telescopes come to mind (years of just dealing with a hot piece of glass). We don't build things we cant mass produce because we still suck as a civilization. And we are not smart enough to figure out how to build really difficult things. Logically these designs should exist... but its not the 'of the masses' mindset that we like on earth. If someone actually made something unique and hard to replicate, it would make people rage because its 'not equal'. not compatible with our society, we find comfort in cheap shit that we might be able to afford one day, and people are stuck thinking that its the way it is. And we still have communists on our planet, they REALLY don't like 'unique' objects. Say you need some exotic matter (lets call it helium 8, 10mg/year is recoverable from 0.01% of stars, build requirement is 10000mg / puddle jumper). Half the planet considers that idea of that kind of design destabilizing to governments lol. I feel like there is a trend in scifi that says 'MAKE IT GRUEL SO THE MASSES CAN RELATE" I don't think alot of arguments knocking shows are even scientific arguments, its just making assumptions on what is possible in engineering based on social-industrial fantasies, in which unique objects are aggressively prosecuted. you could write the most outlandish bullshit, so long it deals with the masses, conformity and obvious group thinking it will be gobbled up as realistic (so it has to be in agreement with tiktok generic responses). You have people start to rant about mcguffins because they never had something that was not popped out of a mold and purchased at the 99 cent store from their noir existence. And you get thoughts like "their stupid because its not mass produced and made easy' instead of 'wow they managed to pull that shit off together'. I feel like its cancer in scifi. Can't keep your jealousy in check so people start talking mad shit. I love how people keep saying stuff is outdated but other then ranting about the lack of a nice UI for the computers, we can't pull off 0.01% of the stuff scifi portrayed even in 50's movies on any kind of scale, ease, reliability, etc. I feel like I am dealing with kids matching poorly lit contours of complex 3d objects to declare 'matches' when I read reviews. Does it make the pRC loook poor and stupid?! COULD OUR WAY OF LIFE POSSIBLY BE WRONG?! BAD SHOW
@@cdrom1070 Production of Ancient tech is a strange absence from the show. It could be that everything was built to order and by hand but even then you'd expect there to be plans somewhere in Atlantis. I like to imagine that the actualy industrial production facilities were on the outer edge of Atlantis so the Atlantis Expedition simply didn't get to them while the show was going. Now that it is on Earth, with a lot more manpower available they could find it sooner and learn how to make some of their technology. You could wind up with basically different models of technology being mixed and prefered by people. Goa'uld, Ancient, Asgard, Human styles like models of car.
I just wish they took the leap of faith and make a series where the stargate program has become public knowlwdge, atlantis is decloaked, and earth has expander both beyond the planet and five ships
Without checking whether others have brought up the following arguments or not (I'm pretty sure someone must have), three things popped into my mind. 1) The Ori developed the Supergate and we have seen similar concepts in The Expanse as well, 2) It's not necessarily ring shaped gates, the idea is to travel through a wormhole, that could potentially be of a different shape and 3) this will always be `Stargate` - meaning that this is the title of the franchise, it wants to be about this. So anything would be invented in relation to the idea of a Stargate.
Sorry you relay in response, but in order.
1. This is something a lot of people have brought up, yes the Ori did make the supergates, but Earth can’t make even basic stargate. Also it seems like in order to make supergates you need to destroy planets to do so.
2. That is true, the wormhole drive does exist (my bad for missing). So using wormholes out the ring is possible. But that kind of makes the gate more pointless, because now you never need a gate, just the wormhole.
3. This is a really good point, the gates will always have a purpose in this franchise. Which is why I made the video. It kind of feels like the “magic” surrounding it has faded in favor of ships.
Taking months to travel across the Galaxy actually makes the most sci-fi sense. The 'Galaxy' of the Milky Way should be like how Earth was during the 'Age of Exploration...' that is, the timeframe that was the state of humanity on Earth that was 1492-1597
I love that the Stargate fandom lists ftl velocities in units of lightyears/second. At great distances for interstellar travel anything that can't be measured in (integer) lightyears/month or faster means you aren't moving out of your home system.
Although it might be worth pointing out that if the Pegasus galaxy in Stargate is the real world Pegasus Dwarf Galaxy, then velocity of the ship in question (making the trip in 18 days) is only 2 lightyears/second, which puts it near the bottom of the list displayed at 5:45.
Based on how they're mounted, the ancients probably mostly used the Stargates to move people, probably VIPs, and as a communications system.
I think, by the time the asgard hyperdrives were given to the earth ships the Stargate was somewhat obsolete from a meta perspective anyway.
We already had a feel for the major factions, the threats were all galaxy scale or extra galactic, Stargate travel was pretty much at its theoretic maximum.
By that point, the Stargate network's advantage was that it existed, while earth had like, 5 ships.
Heck, the asgard didn't use Stargates. It was established pretty early that super fast hyperdrives would be the 3nd point when thor was popping by earth for his weekly visits.
Actually, the Asgard DID use stargates. Their colonies in other galaxies had gates -- ones they made themselves. How else do you think Jack got to one? We see them come and go from Earth by the gate several times. We've even seen _ascended ancients_ traveling by gate a few times.
The ships were handy for setting up off world sites as well. They always liked to take a gate to a planet without one to set up their Alpha Sites. They also clearly used it to move supplies and heavy machinery since the final Alpha Site we saw was basically a smaller Chianne Mountain base. But in that way the gates can be useful for secret bases. Moving a gate to a planet the Goa'uld or whichever enemy they face hasn't found is pretty handy. Come and go as you please and the enemy never sees your movements. And with how big a galaxy is, they would be hard pressed to find it via just world to world searches. It's like way back when I worked at a Kroger. My boss had this habit of calling me on weekends for extra shifts I really didn't want to take. But this was before cellphones were super common so when I went to visit my dad, he couldn't reach me for those shifts. A fun part of that was I lived in a different town from the Kroger, but my dad lived in the same town. So, my boss couldn't find me when I was practically right under his nose.
The Aschen, as I remember it, were described by Carter in 2001 as basically sticking to worlds that did not need address recalculation for their stargate, at least when they were first (well, technically second, after timeline reset) encountered, like they were focusing on systems where they knew habitable planets and especially established civilizations were located. Also, if you'll notice, the Aschen stargates weren't technically modified, they were just attached to a robot arm, kinda like the shock absorbing and energy/computer interface braces Earth had with extra features.
As for stargates vs ships, one thing we don't have concrete information on is energy efficiency comparisons (I mean, they used a freaking car engine and jumper cables in 1969 to give it enough power to get back home, albeit it is known that it will passively absorb energy so no telling how much it had in reserve). If it takes a buttload more energy to send an actual ship, that could give a major reason to use the gates on a regular basis, on top of speed and ease of use.
In the original movie, Ra's ship didn't have hyperdrive (since at that time the lore wasn't established yet to that point). How do we know this? Because as Ra arrived on Abydos, he was first seen leaving the Sarcophagus. In the movie's lore, there were no System Lords, Ra was the last of his dying race, so the only reason for him to use the Sarcophagus at that point was as a stasis pod for long distance travel. Imagine Ra left Earth in the Ancient Egypt era, when the people rebelled against him and he was on his way to Abydos the whole time. Abydos was in another galaxy, the series later retconned it as the closest habitable planet in the Milky Way, but that wasn't the case in the movie. So it was a very very long trip, which is where the Sarcophagus comes in handy. Which in turn makes a counterpoint against the hyperdrive.
So in that light the Stargate had a clear point, it made travel much faster, since humanity reached the stage, where the gate was found in Ghiza, 2 world wars were fought and the gate was opened with dr. Jackson's help. The expedition led by col. O'Neil arrived on Abydos at almost the same time as Ra's ship did. One left Earth long time ago, the other just a few moments. The gate surely shortened the travel time for the same amount of distance. I mean almost instantaneous travel is (and always will be) better, than any hyperdrive could achieve.
I was going to mention that in the movie Abydos was on the "other side of the known universe". In the show it was close enough to Earth to not be affected as much by stellar drift, that the stargate address still worked. I have to disagree on Ra just getting to Abydos from Earth for the first time since the Earth rebellion. The people on Abydos would have developed a completely different way of life if They hadn't seen "the gods" for that long. They were obviously used to regularly delivering naquadah to the pyramid. If it had been thousands of years since the gods had been there, those beliefs would have been long forgotten.
The pod was used to sustain him. There were still his guards, support staff all around. I never took it as a stasis pod as the same pod was used by Jackson to be revived. Ra in the movie even mentioned how easy it is to maintain a human body. I've watched the movie dozens of time and never divined that there was no type of ftl travel.
To be fair the original movie takes place in a different universe.
@@Joshua-ew6ks Is that your take on it?
There's also the fact that you could build Stargates in different sizes. O'neill points out that the Tollans stargate is smaller than theirs. There's also the Ori supergate which can transport entire fleets of ships in an instant.
That is true, but keep in mind those were build by people way smarter than the people of Earth
1. Energy efficiency: If Stargates could be developed to require less energy to operate, they would be more practical for regular use.
2. Size scalability: Increasing the size of Stargates could allow for larger vehicles or more cargo to pass through.
3. Precision: Improving the accuracy of destination targeting would make Stargates safer and more reliable.
4. Network expansion: Creating a wider network of Stargates across various planets or galaxies would increase their utility.
5. Portability: Developing smaller, portable Stargates could revolutionize exploration and emergency response.
6. Temporal applications: If Stargates could facilitate time travel as well as spatial travel, their usefulness would expand dramatically.
7. Integration with other technologies: Combining Stargate technology with other advanced systems could lead to new applications in fields like communication, energy transfer, or scientific research.
I think that the gates themselves were meant mainly for ease of travel to low-traffic destinations that didn't justify setting up a whole spaceport for receiving starships. The Ancients themselves had hyperdrives not much slower than those employed by the Asgard (i.e. travel between Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies in under a week when powered by a ZPM, which in turn implies travel between any two points within a single galaxy in a few hours). When you needed to send thousands of tons of stuff or thousands of people all at once, ships were more efficient, but the gates were more useful if you were just sending a handful of people, or if you had a high-priority situation in which saving those few hours mattered.
Stargate is flex. Something you grind years to build. The ultimate goal of gtnh.
One way to fix this is to start seeing the stargate as having two major systems. Which also explains things like that time Teal'c got stuck in the gate and the one way travel two way radio. Those being the wormhole and the teleporter separate those and you could plausibly have them figure out how to use other teleporters with the stargate, rings and the Atlantis teleport booths being plausible. If the gates being used as transport for an interstellar civilization you would have a schedule of dialings and then teleport remotely instead of directly through the gate.
Another thing to consider is resource expenditure. If it only cost say $1000 to open a gate and you are able to transport a million tons of material in 15ish seconds over the 30 or so minutes the gate can be open. Sending a ship might cost way more to send the same supplies. Additionally, you need to feed the crew, power the ship, maintenance overhead ect. Finally, for the same cost of the ship, you could open the gate many times and transport even more supplies.
One thing I give the film credit for is that the writers knew what role the titular Stargate had in the universe of the film.
My headcannon is that the gates were made mostly for personal transport by the ancients. The vast majority of freight is not time critical as long as you plan for it. That's why, in our world, you have expensive plane transport for people and cheap cargo vessels for most goods.
When war comes-a-callin' we use ships when we can, but still use planes when we need to though. Sometimes even faster than the transport ones. Cost is only a secondary concern. Similarly; I'm sure the ancients had lots of special sauce they reserved for such needs (besides Aurora class ships), but obviously this isn't something they necessarily advertised or made easy to find by others.
Even if ships can cross the galaxy in days, it seems like the stargates would still have use as a courier network for passing urgent messages.
I guess it's similar to how we have super fast planes, but still use cargo ships to transport much larger quantities of goods.
Makes me think of Peter F Hamilton books. Basically all human worlds are connected by Stargates with railways built into them. Move massive amounts of cargo.
To me it always felt like stargates and spaceships are for different use cases.
The gate is nearly instantaneous, which is practical. But the gate is also limited in size and time. 38 minutes and only things that fit through the gate. And it is at a given location, so if you were to invade a planet through a gate, it would be with ground troops, there would be a for how long you can send reinforcements, and the defenders know where you land.
Spaceships on the other hand allow for thousands of units to go somewhere, bring in auxillary craft like fighters and dropships, or simply attack the planet from orbit.
Which means gates is great for a weekend trip with the family, or to send out small teams, while spaceships are great for anything big that doesn't rely on getting there quickly.
it's like sending data over the net or going there in person with a drive. At some size going yourself will be faster, depending on network speed. Sending a couple people through a gate is like emailing a text file, going by ship is more like carrying your box of movies.
Y'know, theres a book by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw of Zero Punctuation fame called _Will Save the Galaxy for Food_ where the opposite ended up happening. The basic premise of the book was that the discovery of quantum tunneling or "quantunneling" technology that led to the creation of gates that allowed instantaneous travel to anywhere in the galaxy eventually ended up putting starship pilots out of business since the average person no longer needed to rely on them in order to travel to other planets.
The Tollan ships were comparatively very slow, remember, when the Tollan were rescued from their original world Omac said that they were so far away from Tolanna that they shouldn't expect a rescue in their lifetimes, and Tolanna is in the Milky Way.
So the issue with stargates is their relatively small size will bottleneck logistics on a large scale, and the issue with ships equipped with Asgard hyperdrives is that they're few in number.
If an urgent situation occurs and the handful of Daedalous-class ships are tied up on missions elsewhere, one of the ships would have to be diverted from its current task to help. And last I checked there are only five. That wouldn't be a problem if Brad Wright's new season idea gets any traction as it will be in the present and more would be built. But whether space or ocean, it's important to remember that these are ships. It's safe to assume that a third will be active, a third will be training, and the other third are in "dry dock" undergoing maintenance. And the ability to get more of these hyperdrives died with the Asgard. Making more is possible, but that would keep the Odyssey in harbor as well since she was the only BC-304 to get the Asgard computer core.
A workaround for that would be to build the ships but give them less advanced hyperdrives.
It's ridiculous how fast the tech development in Stargate is compared to real life. It takes NASA 20 years to build the JWST but in SG they churn out spaceships in yearly intervals with insane improvements.
Ah the Wraith Superhive. Makes me wish that plot line was explored further. Imagine the Wraith invading the Milky way.
Ya don't have to worry about the vacuum of space for one. Space travel needs a lot more technologies, ships, navigation, lifesupport, hyperdrive. The Stargate is an all in one deal without any of that.
Also you can travel to other galaxies with the StarGate which ships can't do nearly as fast.
I think the main issue, from a logistical perspective, is that a planet can only use one stargate at time. The issue would almost immediately solve itself if you could use multiple stargates.
instant point-to-point interstellar travel will always be valuable. ship travel is for going places with no gates.
Thor's species had very fast space travel and when their civilization died out they gave that space tech to Earth. So Earth now has some of the fastest ships in the Stargate Universe
As a writer, I'd have scientists build 2 space bound solar power Stargate complex in orbit around Venus made from materials from across the galaxy.
I'm *sure* someone else has posed this idea already though here goes:
Although... 1) Having some experience in import and export, a "stargate VS a ship ",respectively a" plane VS a ship" and 2) once could ship the parts for say a digger through and rebuild on the other side instead of shipping it all as its operational structure, one could theoretically at least set up a pretty significant military/scientific compound on the other planet via the Stargate whilst knowing the more civilian type materials are on their way the ships ( sea freight ).
That could be (for example) larger vehicles or whatever more geared towards leisure facilities or family areas and support staff. Potentially broadcasting and libraries, hospitals restaurants etc...
To say another way = Explore. Evaluate. Expand.
So we'd start with military peace keepers and diplomats and negotiators with a goal of collaborative efforts to explore and protect (not just trigger happy types) ,then scientists and expand from their once we know the area can be protected /we've actionable peace treaties in place and the natives (if there are any) are comfortable enough with us being there.
Gotta to remember that the Stargate was the last step in the evolution of colonization from the ancients. It was always ment for small scale use. No big commercial endeavors.
The reasons for slower travel within the galaxy is rooted more in stellar, planetary and general gravitational "turbulence". You would need a speed downshift to be able to "see" what's coming up, chart a course around any harmful anomalies and then to safely steer that course. This isn't even taking into effect radiant energy fields and the shift to gamma of particle "sleet" caused by your movement. Since hyperspace geometry isn't well explored, we would assume that real spacetime events have some form of protrusion to the next layer.
Travel is quicker to Pegasus since the ship can traverse a shorter distance "up" and out of the galactic flow and into "clear" space. This would allow faster travel like going from a local dirt road to a highway.
As to the stargate having a point, it depends on your need. The Aschen used it very effectively for quick movement of goods in bulk. Exploratory parties are another effective use, since they can stage in a single area and spread out to explore. Now, if you are launching a military strike, the stargate sucks since it's a chokepoint like Thermopylae. Ships make more sense as you can encapsulate, surprise and bombard from a mobile platform in orbit.
The critical weakness of stargates is you can only have one operational per planet at the same time.
The problem with ships is that there are never enough. This is a common theme in scifi.
In SG1- Facing the Ori supergate, everyone in the galaxy scraped together everything they could gather in time and that was a whopping dozen ships (most of which wound up destroyed).
in Trek- whales attack earth and all 3 defending ships are immediately out of the fight. The borg invade and earths last (only) line of defense is a few dozen antiques
In SGA- there are nominally two 304s to fight literally all the wraith
Without a massive effort to source materials, build a lot of ships, and train enough crew to man them, there will never be enough ships to do everything you want to do with them, so the stargates would never be pointless. In fact stargates could completely negate a lot of things that you'd need ships for if they could overcome the limitation of only having one functional stargate per planet (which I would fully expect to be a project in any further continuation of the franchise)
I always rather saw the ultimate fate of the stargates (and likely what the Ancients mostly used them for) as basically an interstellar "public transit system", similar to taking the subway. In some ways, it's less convenient and more limited than taking your own vehicle everywhere (you don't want to try to bring home the new couch you bought by taking it on the L train), but for routine travel or simple trips it's a lot more efficient a lot of the time, particularly if you can't afford your own personal starship or don't want to deal with the docking/maintenance/fuel/etc costs involved, etc...
Comparing Gates and starships is like comparing aircraft and roads. They both have their very solid uses.
That is true, both have their pro and cons. And a system like that does work for say the Goa’uld where there isn’t a lot of focus on supply chains. But I feel like if we look at the world and its high dependence on supply chains an issue how this would come up. That being said many have come up with a lot of creative ideas on how to make gates work in said system.
When Teal`c said it will take many months for space attack on Earth i think what he meant that it would take alot of time to organize troops, resources and ships to go to Earth. After all the ships needed few days to get to Earth. And keep in mind this was at a time when most system lords were still fighting among themselves for the power vacuum left by Ra. Later seasons we see that even Anubis had to deal with the other system lords before moving to Earth and he would occasionally harass humans by sending sneak attaks through the Stargate or via asteroids
On other hand the Ori have essentially same tech as the ancients and they needed enormous star gates to move their ships from one galaxy to another while humans could do it by FTL in less than a month (though we dont know how far was Ori galaxy)
Yes, people walking through a Stargate is low in terms of mass transit. But it is basically confirmed canon that you could just connect it to the train network. That way you could get thousands of people through the gate within a few minutes and dial the next address. Built in buffers for emergencies or rather catching up after them and problem solved. Same scaling applies to goods. Also with 4.5m it's actually easily wide enough for completely normal already mas produced train cars.
With proper infrastructure and planning all those problems can be solved with current real life technology. With just a simple few kilometer diameter circle you could even have trains on high speeds on hold to shoot through once their address can be dialed. A circle to account for situations where you have to wait unexpectedly.
Basically you neglected everything except net time of travel. Which would favor the gate on paper but only there.
Stargate Universe basically showed the Ancients had built a ship type to automate Stargate production and placement basically every habitable or once habitable world out there has already been found or is being found, you just need to send teams to find out if they are worth sending a ship to in the first place.
They can always use the knowledge they got from Atlantis or the Asgard to make there own smaller version of the Super gates the Ori made to allow ships to instantly reach distant parts of the galaxy further speeding things up.
What could make the stargates pointless is the wormhole drive Mckay pulled out his butt in the last couple episodes of Atlantis. Instant speed of a stargate for a ship the size of a city.
The Aschen not going to planets outside their confederation because they aren’t natural explorers makes sense. The only reason they had an interest in using the stargate to go beyond their confederation is because they were getting Stargate addresses and information of those addresses from SG1, so there’s no real exploration for them to do since the exploration has already been done by someone else.
If Alaris was several billion miles away, it would be closer than Pluto.
7:30 It’s actually not as difficult as you think. Because you can do it the same way they made their offworld bases: Take the machines through as pieces instead of taking them through pre-built, and sending people through in single file. It’s actually *much* faster than using a ship since using a ship would require making multiple trips due to the ships only being able to carry so many things. Plus there’s the issue of limited air supply, so you can only take a limited number of people by ship as well. In fact, the fastest and most efficient way to do it would be to use *both* a ship *and* a Stargate. Use the Stargate to take through the people and all the small stuff, and only use the ships for large things that take a long time to put together.
i always thought it was crazy how earth managed to become so powerful without any of its citizens knowing JUST how powerful their species had become.
At the same time, we saw plenty of examples of why it would be unwise to let that particular cat out of the bag
@@mahatmarandy5977 for sure, i just think it would be such a crazy scenario to live through. Imagine one day the goauld just showed up and to your delight, your government had secretly been building a bunch of weapons to defeat them. You survive an alien invasion AND find out that we are an interstellar species all in one day
Look at the setup the Ancients had in Pegasus (which predated their ascension, so it's the closest we see to their time in the alliance with the asgard, furling, and nox).
The stargates seemed to primarily be for scientific and civilian use. The jumpers may have been armed with those OP drones, but the numbers were limited. Makes it feel more like a police or simple self-defense armament than for military purposes.
But their military vessels were huge, fast, and armed to the teeth, capable of wiping out fleets on their own. A massive, astonishing difference from what is possible via gate.
But in a defensive situation against a foe who doesn't have access to the gate network, the gates can be used for resupply, reinforcement, or evacuation. They could even, with the ancient's shields, be used for a shock offensive, if you hauled a warship through the gate one piece at a time and assembled it in the besieged city, then launched that engine of destruction without them being able to use any kind of anti-hyperdrive tech to interfere with it's arrival.
But overall, they are most useful for allowing travel of small groups for whom time is more valuable than mass moved. Vacationing civilians, diplomats, scholars of all sorts, merchants negotiating trade deals and making the arrangements for either gate transport or cargo ship.
The ancients didn't put all their eggs in one basket, which is where they exceeded the Asgard the most. The Asgard ultimately failed /because/ they routinely put all their eggs in one basket. /ONE/ reproductive method (cloning), /one/ weapon type (directed energy beams). Which cost them badly against the replicators and against the law of diminishing returns.
You make a very good argument for the use of ships over the Star Gate. But installing a Star Gate within each ship could very useful. Instantaneous secure comms back to home, or fast evac if necessary.
Considering the near indestructible material that these Stargate are made from, I suppose you can use them to create the biggest and definitely the most power particle accelerator as well, by placing these gates around a black hole in a circuit. Or, if positioned above the sun affixed to an automated satellite capable of inducing a solar flare, and concentrating the plasma into a dense beam using powerful magnets before passing through another gate, which will come out of another gate affixed to another satellite orbiting the Earth, you got yourself a powerful planet defence weapon capable of taking out an entire invasion fleet with one stream.
It might be more that Stargates stunt the development of ships. The big boost to humanity for ships was them being given a Asgard level of hyper drive, while for the rest things still seem rather stagnant. While ships can be fast, this convenience of Stargates seem to halt the development need to make better ships. Remember the Asgard are from a society outside of the Milky way, and they met up with the Alterans at a later point, and the Asgard were already ancient species by this point. Human ship got really fast because they had he Asgard helping them who didn't have the Startgate hampering their ships to begin with.
its not hat Stargates are pointless, it that's they hamper the development of alternative by being too useful.
@Jon Manson I really love your conclusion here.
the main advantage of the stargates, is their extremally low power consumption, depending on how well that scales up, perhaps earth would be able to build super gates to explore places, taking after the ancients and using the few high power ships to seed galaxies with the super gates, and exploring by ship, establishing trade and diplomatic relationships and antagonists as the plot demands, eventually assisting with building gate networks within various galaxies and supergate networks between galaxies, as well as perhaps even multi galaxy hub waystatitons between gate networks
Stargates guarantee fast "transportation" for small groups, almost immediate deploy of small specialised forces when needed. By ship it takes a bit of time even with most recent tech, and I think this is better for larger cargo and personnel transportation.
Some good points here, and i have a couple of counters:
One, supergates or hypergates, whatever you wish to call them, eliminates a lot of this issue. Already earth had set up a perfect use for gates in this future where trave lis already quite fast - by chaining the gates they've managed to shorten the travel time between pegasus and earth to mere seconds. This is a perfect example of how you should be using gates- rather than for major networks, they're used as a bypass for otherwise long journeys.
Now, pear (haha) that with hypergates, or supergates, and you can create massive interplanetary barges that are able to suddenly get from milky way to pegasus in under a minute. Or further afield; you wouldn't even need to give the ship a hyperdrive, this would massively cut down on costs - and would also allow you to say, using the idea of asgard beam teleportations bulk transport goods almost as fast as you could transport small goods using just a normal gate. Midway in my opinion is the ultimate method of usage for stargates in a fast hyperspace world
@Alex some really good points, and Midway was the best use of the gates, and I’m always saddened by its lose. The only issue I see is that Earth can’t make stargates let alone supergates. And the cost the build one, blowing up a stellar body, kind of makes it hard to justify use.
I love the 2010 gate terminal because that same location was used in the movie bordello of blood
My headcanon is that the Stargate network is actually not all that technologically advanced and that the Ancients did not build it for a practical, industrial, purpose. Rather, the gate network serves the humanitarian function of allowing non-space-faring races (such as the human populations created by the Ancients) to freely move throughout the Ancients' domain.
The Stargate is certainly advanced from the perspective of 1990s Earth, but even then, the SGC was still able to power and control a Stargate using conventional Earth technology. A far greater challenge for the SGC was finding a way to power a stable hyperdrive for more than a few seconds.
Because the Asgard have mastered hyperspace travel, they don't seem to use Stargates all that much. We know they have at least one in their home galaxy, but my suspicion is that this was left over from their alliance with the Ancients and served a primarily diplomatic function. We also know that the Ancients had mastered hyperspace technology too, so why even build the Stargates? Why maintain an inefficient mode of transportation with so many inherent limitations that prevent it from being used on an industrial scale?
We know that, before Ascension, the Ancients were interested in seeding and advancing the development of various human populations, but we also know they valued individualism and self-determination. Integral to the ideal of individual freedom is the concept of freedom of movement. If the human populations they created were still dependent upon Ancient ships, that would effectively reduce them to the status of second class citizens within the Ancients' domain. The Stargate network, therefore, serves as a kind of equalizer for cultures incapable of hyperspace travel. It's a "human rights" issue. It allows humans to move within the Ancient civilization without being completely dependent on Ancients to do so. This is why most Stargates are on the surface of worlds capable of supporting human life, and it's also why most Stargates don't have built-in defenses like a shield. I like to think the only reason the Atlantis gate has a shield, and why some Pegasus gates are in orbit, is because these were defensive modifications made during the war with the Wraith. But the gates' original purpose was always to facilitate free travel between worlds under their control.
New theory of why we wouldn't see ETs even if they had this tech. It takes so much energy they can't afford to use it but as very last resort to escape certain extinction or on micro scale to send probes to learn where to go in such case.
If they figured out the gate technology in a way that they meld Asgardian transport into it. Then they could enhance the gates capability. So they could open the star gate but then configure the whole ship to move through the gate using the Asgard technology mid teleport through the gate. Then it would be more feasible to scout through gates and launch them into orbit to allow ship fleets to transport through the stargate. Your matter footprint thins out in being transported by Asgard technology meaning more items can then travel through the gate without issue. Edit: They also might not need to use the larger gates anymore if this happens
IMO the Stargate is one of the best storytelling devices ever imagined. especially since in universe earth didn't seed them so they have no idea what is out there.
Could use hybridised Wraith Darts as shuttle buses to get more people through at a time, load/unload away from gate to avoid congestion.
Send a bunch through like a Dart train, automate with gate dialling a set up an inter-planetary Subway system, they could split up when through the gate, for flyby pickup/setdown along it's preset route (could even use gates in orbit).
Dartbus Wormway, all stops or connecting stations, work off world and be back for dinner like a train commute, no need for space suits. Might need a Carter/McKay colab to get the timetable right.
I expect by the time we would need a mass transit system, the military and other parties would have their own bases elsewhere, away from prying eyes.
Send the freight by space and if something goes wrong with the gate, you can always hitch a ride home with a Space Trucker.
Although I never finished watching the series I did catch a glimpse of a Stargate that was miles across at one point so that would make these speculations moot .
You dont need advanced tech to get heavy machinery through the gate... we ship them partially disassembled on flatbeds now. 😎
A key point is time capacity. In the shows, it is established that a world can only have one active stargate at any one time. On a world like Earth with an 8 billion population one single gate would never be enough to even handle our tourism industry let alone freight transport and military functions as well. There are only 24 hours a day, so if you devoted 12 hours for incoming travellers and 12 hours for outgoing travellers, and say 10 minutes per wormhole between it being dialled and closed then you could only ever schedule travel to 120 worlds a day. Given that there are millions of worlds in the gate network ships become 100% necessary.
gates will always be the primary method of moving cargo, data, and people.
ships may have advantages in some areas but they're also expensive to build and can be a security threat if they fall into the wrong hands, every cargo freighter is a potential warship, you can't just have unarmed ships roaming around without a means to defend themselves, and in a galaxy without external threats, civil war becomes the primary threat, whether it be "independence wars between colonies and core worlds" or "shipping companies deciding to seize control from planetary governments".
the ancients relied heavily on stargates, because they had a long time to figure out what works best via trial and error.
Through an intergalactic empire that's at peace with outsiders and itself, they're kinda really fucking great. Anyone within walking distance of a gate is within walking distance of every other gates. Throw in some light transport into the mix and you effectively have a very, _very_ large city with a few chokepoints. Might explain the Ancient's propensity to build up rather than wide. If your population curve is flat, you'd get uninterrupted stability.
The ships go from one galaxy to the other one in a very short time... *BY USING A BUNCH OF STARGATES.*
I'm not sure about this, I think the stargate program will be public knowledge by the time we get to see next installment of the franchise.
The biggest issue with Stargates isn't there size or the scheduling, its the one per planet rule. If you could have more than one possible gate address per planet most of these things would be a non issue but trying to do that cannonically causes BAD THINGS to happen.
The stargates are still useful as a discovery tool. The vast majority of stargates that are still reachable are on habitable planets, turning the primary difficulty in establishing colonies from even finding habitable planets into the political one of establishing good relations with the native inhabitants of the planet (if there are any).
Ships are a good backbone for commerce, but the spear-tip is well served by stargates.
The other major function stargates would serve is communication. Any time the stargate is opened between two colonies, a stream of communications can be delivered that would otherwise take months/ years/ longer. At least until the asgard comms tech becomes ubiquitous and available to non-military uses.
Gate still makes sense if just for the fact that in terms of energy consumed its more practical. Additionally you could combine the beam technology and literally push thru infinite amounts of stuff without creating a bottleneck. In fact, you could actually beam anything that is bigger than even the gate thru. We know its possible from the first episode we see thor's charriot beaming up troops and even piramid ships. The Ori showed we can build bigger gates, so that is also another avenue.
I like the Anubis stealing from Asgard theory for why hyperdrives got so much better during the show, but the advancement seems to have started way back in Season 1 given that Apophis got to Earth way earlier than Teal'c was expecting. I suppose Apophis could have sent the ships near the start of season 1, and we'd also have to assume that he and Bra'tac rendezvoused with it via the stargate near the end of the journey. But I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah some others have pointed it out and I don’t really have a good explanation for that. Maybe Teal’c was just wrong, or like you said Apophis sent the ships sooner, but that its own problems.
Stargates are just one more example of the infinite tug of war between speed and capacity.
As species get more and more advanced their usefulness drops off, but many arent very advanced and the gates are extremely useful to them. Besides in SGU we discovered that there are gates in galaxies billions of light years away from the Milky Way possibly all over the Universe, so they can still be very useful even to highly advanced species, or rather species that posses very fast means of travel.
The series has a lot of logical problems but the idea of wormhole travel is probably a good one. It is very possible wormholes just don't exist and that helps not to suck weather systems on to other planets.
Stargate universe needs a warp storm
that will get stargates needed again
Stargates were originally made for the use of exploring and research other planets and not for colonies other planets. The ancients use it for their research like in stargate universe. But ships are good for evacuation planets like in atlantis where a super vulkan broke out and the gate was buried under the lava.
A few points. Ships can be blockaded, intercepted, or completely destroyed. This is far less of an issue with the gates unless you have an enemy with a scorched earth attitude who doesn't care if they destroy a gate or even an entire world to prevent the use of it. So there are many scenarios where a stargate can be used to move people and smaller supplies even in a system where there is a colossal fleet of 10,000 ships circling it. There is also the fact that ships operating hyperdrives seem to use a LOT more power than gates even though the gates did used way more power than normal for a trip between galaxies.
There are also a LOT of weird ways to weaponize stargates in horrific manners and the shows only touched on a few of them. Picture instead of grain being transported you drop a gate in the middle of a city of somebody you don't like and take another gate via ship to a planet with a large ocean. Dial the address of the city you want to no longer be there, lower the sending gate into the ocean, and drown them. Or a gas giant. You could wipe out a large population and pick up the gate you used and leave no trace of an attack, just a super weird disaster.
Except gates can be blocked off too. If you dial in, they can't dial out. The Goa'uld and the Wraith both use this tactic against planets they attack.
Just to clarify the speed of the Daedalus class was roughly 100 million times the speed of light and asgard ships were much much faster being clocked at minutes between Ida and the Milky Way. Possibly trillions of times light speed, we know they were able to travel several thousand light years in just a few seconds and to Ida in a few hours with Prometheus in tow, which is still significantly faster than the Daedalus by roughly 100 times. So the fastest we have actually seen a ship traveling in the series I have calculated to be around 10 billion times actual light speed. They are some of the fastest in all of sci-fi actually. A .5 hyperdrive or millinium falcon speed is about equal to the Earth/Asgard hyperdrive technology basically. These arent exact figures obviously, but they are in the ballpark.
Are you sure about Millennium Falcon speed? I mean Starwars was all about stuff happening in one galaxy, dont remember them travelling into a another one and Millennium Falcon took like days or weeks to reach another place in that same galaxy, while Asgard speed seems to be few seconds between galaxies which should be categorically much faster, even Daelalus 3 weeks between galaxies is much faster than any in galaxy travel as distances between galaxies are much bigger than sizes of galaxies themselves. Or are any of my assumptions wrong here?
@@belisarian6429 The Millennium Falcon travelled from the Rim (Tatooine) to the Core (Alderaan) in somewhere between 30 minutes and two hours. No exact time figure, long enough for Luke to start playing with the lightsaber, but it wasn't very long.
@@owenstith5550 Yeah I think he's thinking about the time where the hyperdrive breaks down in empire, they do have a backup unit as most ships do and it's like mid warp speed slow. Plus star wars was a huge influence on stargate lore as well, which is nothing to do with anything but it's worth mentioning. I feel it's the closest franchise to compare it too in any case.
When it comes to slow hyperdrives, canonically they could be explained by most being based off of ancient tech but just not built as effectively, like with the goa'uld and their tech. Where as the speed of earth ships, asgard and atlantis is the speed the hyoerdrives should be going at if built and the science behind them is understood properly.
Stargates would continue to be utilized as a logistics platform. As the Achen used it, for the movement of goods and resources. There would need to be multiple gates per planet to make it actually useful, since different resources come from different places. In fact it could even be used to accommodate rapid transfer of goods on any planet. That planet would need a highly coordinated and neutral SGC in order to facilitate it, but it could be done.
I believe that the more the galaxy is travelled, the more useful the gate becomes.
Also I hate the idea of a reboot, but I see why they are doing it. Revisiting the old cast would be great, but you can't make a series out of that.
Asgard beaming tech, as mentioned before, could move a large amount of material through a stargate, and probably even in both directions. An advanced civilization might even forward beaming signals across entire star systems, making it possible someone on Titan to make their way to the moons of Abydos simply by ordering a ticket on their phone and then being transported through a star system wide teleportation relay network. The gates themselves can also be beamed around the systems if they need to be, especially if they are building seas and atmospheres and spreading eggs and seeds and spores. Travelers going from high traffic systems to low traffic systems might need to layover in slightly less traveled systems though.
Now for something even greater that the gate has over ships, instantaneous travel between distant galaxies. They would need to figure out how to not blowup planets when they dial other galaxies, which maybe they should experiment by building a shell around a black hole instead of pushing around newly industrialized civilizations.
Put this all together and the gate network makes it possible beam from any star system that has a gate to points in other galaxies that have gates. I continue to wonder if the intergalactic gates could be on a separate network from the intragalactc gates, to allow the planets that have them to have both open at the same time.
feels like the later seasons of both shows already answered this, both in terms of the Earth ships, and the SGC being out of the pentagon. However whilst yes Star Gate become more about Star Ships does feel wrong, it would be odd if that didnt happen. Hell once the Asgard died, if we were not using their tech to build ships, it would have been a massive plot hole.
There will always be a reason to get something, somewhere fast, but in a speculative future where Earth has many colonies they will have to build them for hyper drive travel, and see the Star Gate as the back up or emergency option. I also think LONG TERM you might be able to use other other planets Star Gates as logistic hubs, to save using the Earth gate quite as much. Hell other Earth afflitied planets can trade with each other, without the Earth gate being involved.
Exploration is another thing the final seasons hinted out, and the real world hints out, why much would the SGC be sending manned missions? MALP and modern day drones, will do alot of other work, meaning less need for humans to travel. With Asgard tech there is less need for humans to travel / explore. Every planet is a possible pandoras box, and whilst things are good, why risk it?
I'm reminded of the Mitchell and Webb announcement over the stargate tannoy "Can I remind everyone again that the stargate is not a bin"
10:14. Duuuuuuughhhhhh!!! I'd thought we fixed it so that wouldn't happen again. Duuuuuuuughhhhhh!!! Daniel...
I had begun to wonder this myself in the latter seasons of SG-1. Not that I mind the ships, but if they don't nerf space travel then they do decrease the relevancy of the gates. Two solutions I see would be to nerf space travel, with pirates, raiders, and/or a new BBEG making space travel without a warship's protection dangerous and possibly forcing even the warships to mobilize in force for safety. Or, come up with a way to use multiple stargates on a planet. Say, by reprogramming the eight or ninth chevron to act as a localizer code. You could get up to a hundred gates on a planet that way, easing logistics quite a bit and opening the potential for tactical uses.
Honestly, '2010' really does represent what the SG system will become. Though, I do think that the Hyper-Gate (from a later season in SG1, or was it a movie?) would serve as the next evolution for the SG system, as it could likely have a range that can beat the distance to time equation for ships, so long as it is established as a tool for intergalactic travel, like this thing is BIG, and you can deliver a lot between these hyper-gates that could consume less power to travel between desired galaxies, so long as there is a way to manufacture multiple of them and have scheduled activations.
@JamesTDG I think you meant Supergates. I do agree that those would be an improvement. But a down side to them is that based on how the Siri built them one would need to destroy a celestial body to power it. Maybe there is a way to build one without that, but that seems like a pretty high cost.
If they cross wraith "beaming" tech with Asgard beaming tech they can fit all the materials needed in a "puddle jumper" and then rematerialize it when they get through the gate later.
Look what the Asgard did when the goa-ould went to one of the protected planets in season 1. Whole mother ships and ppl where beamed away.
Just store the buildings somewhere while in "matter form and boom save your self on a lot of ships.
But ships will always be needed along side gates because there's always new places being.discovered.
I think this is the reason SGU was the story it was. Trapped far away with nothing but a Stargate for travel.
The writing team slowly backed them selfs into a corner with SG1 and SGA. Making ships faster and faster to the point that the shows were becoming more about spaceships then Stargates. I know that wasn’t the full case but that’s the direction the story’s were heading in. As earth built more 304s the need for gates became lessened.
I also think it’s the reason the writers were slow to introduce new ships and always blew up ships that the teams captured the show was about the gate so the focus needed to stay around it.
If we do get a new show I suspect it will be some story were ship travel is limited for whatever reason maybe hyperspace gets disrupted or something I don’t know. But I’d be surprise if earth was a big galactic power with lots of colony’s and ships.
they wrote themselves into a corner from literal reality. if I can build space ships to enforce my rule upon you via orbital bombardment or massive troop and armored vehicle deployment. Why wouldnt i just do that?Now this gate only approch could have worked better if finding a planets location in space was extrememly difficult to the point most wouldnt try to attack a planet they know nothing about, then yes you would have seen ships take a back seat where they only servered as indicators of a factions tech and power level and mainly sat as defensive assets for that just incase moment.
Well…I think the reason they were slow to introduce new ships was that it takes a long time to build a ship. Take the USS Ronald Reagan, for instance, Construction started in 1998 and it wasn’t launched until 2003. And that was done in full view of the world. Imagine trying to keep a project like that secret. And there are cost considerations and manpower considerations, which, again, are even harder if it’s all covert. Unlike those other franchises, Gate mentions money quite a bit - the cost of the SGC, the expense of running things. There’s finite resources. It’s not like Trek or Star Wars, where there’s eleventy-jillion ships just laying around.
But part of it was also that they simply didn’t want the show to become ship-based, as you said. It’s really the only infantry-based space show, like, ever, and ships become a deus ex machina.
when ever they said a ship couldn't get somewhere for a long time I assumed it was because the location was half away around the galaxy or something, and when it was a short time it was just around the metaphorical corner.
like a year to go and pick up Oneal, quadrant A to quadrant D
A B
C D
a few weeks to a few months qA to qB/qC a few day to get somewhere still on quadrant A
like you said they didn't give us a good ideal as to where every thing was in regards to everything else so just use your own imagination to fill in the blanks and don't jump to "ships got faster cause they didn't think on it."
as for a jump to another galaxy, I don't remember the episode but the ship might have been at the edge of ours and able to travel faster in the void between clusters.