Have Stargates Become Pointless?
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- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024
- With hyperdrives becoming faster, there they leaving Stargates in the dust?
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Wait, of course they've always been pointless, they are ROUND...
Chevrons are pointy. Checkmate.
Ok... DAD!
Hexagon bestagon.
Ha!
Circles also have infinite points (vertices) depending on whose maths you're using.
Stargates have a major advantage when it comes to exploration: it's a near-guarantee that the world is (or at least was) habitable. And even with ship-based exploration, it has a use. An exploration ship would carry a supply of stargates, and would place one on any candidate worlds. You can get a significant amount of supplies, equipment, and personnel through in a short time, allowing an outpost to be set up before the exploration ship continued.
Huh, carrying Stargate around and placing them on useful planets like seeds…
sounds familiar…
😂
near instant colonization also
well, in stargate atlantis, you could step through a gate and... land in orbit. without even a dialing device.
@@robertheinrich2994 in atlantis they explained this as part of the wraiths actions to prevent culling worlds from communicating outside and allowing easy access for ship based use for the gates. This allowed the wraith to isolate and prevent rebellion when they began hibernating due to the lack of sustenance for how large the wraith population had grown
@@unadultratedtrini okay, makes sense that the wraiths would do that.
The ability to dial a gate and send communications instantly makes stargates endlessly useful. They obviously have a ton of other advantages but communication alone makes them worth it
Then the number of stargates on the planet needs to be proportionally increased to the size of your star nation.
Remember your stargate can only connect to one other stargate at the same time.
For an empire controlling millions of stars, you’d need thousands of stargates on EVERY planet to maintain an effective communication network.
Yet most planets have only one stargate. That’s stupidly inefficient.
Were Ancients stupid or was it an oversight by the show creators?
@@apollodiomedes203 lol, inefficient compared to what? Not communicating at all with another planet vs. Instant contact with another planet. Now, we might as well not bother and just send subspace messages and hope they get it and get back to us.
@@apollodiomedes203 The ancients may well (in fact I'd say almost certainly did) have had other ways to maintain communication between all of the planets in their massive sphere of influence, but that doesn't mean that stargates wouldn't remain incredibly useful for communication for lesser races who haven't figured all the same tricks out yet, even if they're not perfect for the application.
That having been said, for the Tau'ri, by the end of the original SG-1 series, IIRC, we had already obtained subspace communication technology (from the Asgaard) which allowed near-instantaneous communication from anywhere to anywhere anyway, even between different galaxies, so the stargates are really pretty unnecessary for communication for us as well, at that point.
@@foogod4237They did have another way with the communication stones. They allow people to switch bodies instantaneously no matter how far apart they are. Destiny was able to remain in constant communication with Earth because of these stones
@@apollodiomedes203 Are we just ignoring the fact that it's mentioned several times in the show that a only one stargate connection per planet can be maintained at a time? Several attackers even used this as a means to deny their enemies a chance to send their leaders through the stargate to escape. If you have multiple stargates per planet you can still only use one at a time, thus it's pointless to have more than one. It's honestly weird enough that Earth had two in the first place, and that was just because the goa'uld who brought the second one didn't know about the one the Ancients left behind.
Also keep in mind that in SG:Atlantis, the speed was ONLY able to be increased due to having both an Asgard designed hyperdrive PLUS a ZPM powering it. Once the ZPM was delivered to Atlantis, it was a 3-week journey between Atlantis and Earth ONE-WAY.
However this was using a less advanced reactor. With a more advanced Asgard reactor it would be a lot faster. The ZPM wasn't magic, the hyperdrive could do it, they just weren't ready to manage a more powerful reactor design.
@@RikkiCattermole And to be honest...it is only a matter of time, until Earth can make it's own ZPM.
@@FlaschenJoe11 my bet would be within ten years they would have a science station next to a black hole. From there it is infinite power just gotta make the zpm at that point.
They moved really fast and apparently had a pretty good understanding of ancient technology by the time SGA ended.
@@RikkiCattermole Helped they could get first hand records at times, with teh complete Atlantis Archives and the records of what O'Neil did both times he played "Lantean USB"
The replicators made a mothership unimaginably fast - and it was just "dump more power into it". Jack monkeyed with the controls on a cargo ship to make it way faster than anything else - again, without using 10x the power.
the amount of cargo or people you could get trough the gate by train is just stupendous.... you would need truly massive fleet to offset constant instant access with no apparent limit on how fast stuff can travel trough it.
The scheduling really becomes a much bigger issue than the capacity at that point, yeah.
Although… probably best to use maglev trains. I know I wouldn't want to be responsible for rail alignment at different gates.
…And how would train interact with the gates' buffer-and-send architecture, anyway? Would they have to buffer the whole train before transmitting any of it? Would this run into capacity limitations?
@@DaraelDraconis you're right, people had to go all the way through. Someone could stick their hand in and hold up the gate but their arm didn't actually go through. But I think I recall a puddle jumper getting stuck once partway and rematerializing partially but it's been a long time...
@@AkronBaja Yep. And the explanation was that the gates used a subspace buffer to collect an entire object before sending it, since transmission of matter is one-way and the Ancients didn't want someone who flinched to chop bits off themselves!
Anyway my point is that this raises questions about a coupled train and just how much the buffer can hold. Then again, maybe somewhere hidden in the control channels is an immediate-send mode for just such a purpose.
@@DaraelDraconis No, I remember that much but there was an instance with a puddle jumper that malfunctioned going through the gate and got stuck because it's little engines didn't retract all the way and scraped its forward momentum to a halt. Most of it materialized on the other end of the gate, but not all of it and it's butt was stuck so if the gate shut off the crew would die in space. I want to say the loading ramp was still on the other side, but maybe it was still in the buffer?
@@AkronBaja I may be mixing it up with another episode but I think one side was in the buffer and they had to work out how to get the gate to expel the contents before they got overwritten by a different wormhole connection?
Reasons the Gate is still a very useful tool.
Less costly to operate.
Ships are maintenance and financial nightmare.
Faster than Ships.
Can be used for communication and relays(Season 4 Ep 1, The Apollo checks in with the Midway Station looking for Atlantis)
Much more secure and safe way to check out a planet without putting a ship and it's crew in possible hostile territory. Ship can do supply and support if needed after the fact.
I would suggest a ship allows you to explore without hazarding your world.
That whole blackhole thing.
@@icecold9511 Fair point. However in all fairness...Safety is always best when layered.
There is a certain chance of opening a gate to a black hole or something similarly destructive and there is a chance of travelling in a ship to a hostile planet and not coming back. Or even accidental issues causing problems(Prometheus ejecting the hyperdrive core and the planet thought they were attacking so they launched missiles at the ship)
Then there is the likelihood or % rate of either of these happening and how we handle them. We know how to deal with the black hole issue for now so while it has larger possible implications...it can be solved without loss of people.
So awareness of these types of situations is required and we roll the dice every time. it may happen in either case...awareness, prevention and readiness to counter the threat if it does happen is key.
A long range scanning sensor array(such as the ones on the Daedalus class and used in Atlantis) deployed on safe planets could be used to collect data in the surrounding space and planetary systems so we know which areas are safe to gate or fly to.
So we are explorers...how fast we want or need to explore is balanced out by how safe we want to explore :)
Peace fellow SG fan.
@@heathb4319
Yes, but that is risk to one ship and crew, not everything.
@@icecold9511 ...Agreed losing a ship is bad...losing a planet is way very bad-er.
However in this setting...we can stop the black hole with a shape charge(A Matter of Time episode) And now that we know how to, while it is a potential great danger, it can be solved rather simply with no loss of life.
A black hole is a black hole...it will not change it's mind or act different....we can beat it easy enough.
On the other hand...we can find a planet full hostiles and they lie, trick and deceive us until we lose our planet anyhow...Such as the Ashen.(or politicians)
it's all dangerous...how we handle it is up to us.
So which is actual more dangerous threat. According to show lore and logic.
Stargates are also a better general transportation tool, allowing economies of planets to interact more easily. You can start shopping on one planet, visit a mall on another planet, and still be home for dinner.
You mentioned that a gate can only accomodate around a trucks worth of size. But you forgot to mention that You could move tens to hundreds of trucks trough the gate in one Gate opening. Do it 4 or 5 times a day and you suddenly have a massive amount of moved mass.
Or better yet, create trains made specifically to go trough the gate at high speeds to move as much material as possible in one go. If you have a train moving at 25MPH for 20 minutes trough a Gate, it can be 7.5 MILES long.7.5 miles of a train is a LOT of train.
The heavy machinery not being able to fit trough is an issue only if you cant assemble them at the other side from smaller pieces that can fit trough, or if you dont have way to assemble them on the other side. That would be an issue only for really early stages of the colonization process.
on your last point, heavy equipment size. right now they are built like that due to the way they are used. if gate travel was a reality and became popular to use then equipment would be designed for it. like the puddle jumper. ships today have a "Panama Standard" size, basicly is it small enough to fit through the locks in the panama cannal. well SG size standard would follow suit
There's a book series Pandora's Star which centers around a vast Commonwealth of planets linked by trains which travel through gates like that. (Yes, literal track and rail standard gauge trains.)
I’d do mag-lev rather than track and rail, in case there is some shimmy from crossing, the mag-lev is self stabilizing. But there is a question about the speed (and size) of the train. How much of an object has to be committed, before the whole is yanked through?
@@nela9994 gates don't yank anything through, they've used items (and people) extensively to prevent it from just shutting off up to it's maximum
they stay open up to 38 minutes as long as something is being fed through
at 38 minutes it'll either shut down or require immense amounts of energy consumption
the way it works however is that it absorbs everything and then transmits it in one piece, so a train couldn't take more than 18 minutes (technically 19, but you don't want to cut it that close) to get entirely trough or the thing would simply be destroyed along with everything/everyone on board
Only problem with trains as an example, the gate only materialises the train once the whole thing has gone through. But yes, you could use a set of detached trucks etc.
The Ancients had the best technology of everyone, and they used both stargates *and* ships. Same with the Ori. Each have their uses in different situations.
Maybe gate tech can be reverse engineered and combined with ring tech to create long distance travel? It is probably easier to create small wormholes than big ones. Ring tech is very underrated.
@@the11382 The Ori already do it with a ring that transports them to their capital city of Celestis.
@@the11382 Yes this can be done and has been done in the series. Also done by Merlin to avoid the Ori super weapon from being captured
The Ori also solved the issue of too small a Stargate by simply building a new much larger Stargate as numerous arcs transported and self-assembled such that they could move full size Ori warships through a gate located in space for their attack on our galaxy. That means we, too, could likely build much larger custom gates if we really wanted to as we should have the knowledge between what is known from the Ancients, Ori, and the Asgard races (especially given our possession of the complete Asgard library of knowledge after it was gifted to us before their demise).
@@ethanpoole3443 the ancients most advanced form of hyper drive that came too late for them to win the war. was their wormhole drive that functions like a stargate, but doesn't need a fixed gate on any location. If you build that on to all your ships you won't need stargates anymore.
and Rodney was able to finish building it at the end of Atlantis series to beat the wraith back to earth. so if the series had continued they would likely find ways to integrate that into their other tech.
If I remember right, an ISO standard container can actually fit through the middle of a Stargate. On top of that, you can have the Stargate horizontally, so all you need to do is drop a row of containers through using gravity and be willing to have a system on the other stargate to catch the flying containers.
The ashen demonstrated it perfectly with their harvester operation. Shame the idea never really got used again on screen.
i think you just set up a train system, put tracks on both sides and push it through.
@@Mold3y I feel like a custom built tryck would be a lot easier and safer than yeeting shipping containers trough a wormhole.
If you send people via a ship, you have to include all of the resources needed to support the people on that ship. This would be resource-intensive for colonizing new planets and more so the further away the planet is. Drone ships (or skeleton crews) could carry colony-building resources and a Stargate to the planet ahead of the colonists. Once the gate is established, people can be immediately sent through to survey the planet and establish a colony. Once the colony is established, the ships can provide additional resources while the gates provide colonists. People get instantaneous travel to new worlds that are supplied by the network of ships. At some point, the colony should, hypothetically, be developed enough to be self-sufficient, so the gates will primarily be used for new colonies rather than a form of public transit.
Wouldn't be necessarily resource intensive to support ppl on the ship.
Can operate the ship with a skeleton crew, or simply minimal amount.
Or design a transport ship specifically for that purpose, like 5-10 ppl max. And have minimal crew space as they don't need to live on the ship.
Well ppl via ship is possible but not an effective use of ship transport. Just use a Stargate, doesn't take days, doesn't require air or food.
Either design a transport ship with bare minimal human crew with very limited crew space, or current ships with skeleton crews for that purpose.
I guess we are kinda saying same thing....
But just wanted to reiterate that ships and Stargate and both able to be used for colonization of planets especially when used hand in hand
You can just store people in the beam memory buffer like the wraith do.
@@Zoey-- Just make sure not to accidentally turn on the gate
Reminds me of that one Atlantis episode where they evacuate from a place where the people have their city in a volcano. The Daedalus has enough room to carry all at once, but the systems on the ship aren't able to keep them all supplied with oxygen.
You could use the Asgard beaming technology to beam people and objects through a Stargate. That would work for objects too large to physically fit through the gate itself, or large amounts of people and things instantaneously.
Not sure if that’s possible with beaming tech, but would be interested to see if it does work that way.
@@sg-24 The gate passes energy just fine. Beaming tech is just converting matter to energy and back.
@@sg-24 Merlin proved it is possible in The Quest twoparter.
@@the11382 that was build by Ganos Lal, not Merlin.
Excellent idea!
Providing the beam
can be narrowed
down to fit.
But it makes sense.
Since the Aschen, given their level of technology, only wanted to expand slowly (presumably to avoid conflict with others, particularly the System Lords), it makes sense that their ships were relatively slow. It was nice to see a power that used Stargates differently from everyone else, though.
imo... you'd still want fast ships for defensive purposes. The limited exploration can be done through political means.
Yeah but didn't they wipe out the Goa'uld in one of the time lines they managed to make contact with Earth and the other time they were after more Stargate addresses, I don't think they were expanding slowly by choice rather due to a lack of options.
Probably more likely they avoided a conflict with the Asgard and other possibile races
The Asgard are often in the milky way because of their protected planets
We did see one advanced race who was hostile but was trapped with I think it was the first earth ship in the one nebula or what it was
The gouald were wiped out by the ashen
Using the Ori Supergates you could combine them. Set up a Colony, build a Supergate somewhere nearby and then you could send ships through for supply/trade etc. May take us awhile to get to the point where we could construct them on such a scale but, the possibility exists in the SG universe. I'm sure many others have brought up this point lol😀
Its possible there could only be one active supergate per galaxy, just like there is only one active stargate per star system.
@@nitehawk86 Plus supergates are expensive to build. And not in the sense of building material, but activation. You need a black hole every time you activate it.
Who needs a Supergate? Atlantis has a wormhole hyperdrive, which is essentially 'gate-speed, but on a city-sized spaceship'...
@Paul Chaisson true, but it got burned up in the jump to Earth. And I read that the writers only introduce it as a plot device to get Atlantis to Earth. Which is why they burned it out.
I think you are missing a few points here.
1. A Stargate can hold a connection for half an hour. If you have matching containers lined up with antigrav, you can send materials through that only incredibly huge ships could match.Say, it takes a ship one day there and back to deliver a shipment and say you can send a container through every (let's be generous) minute, that would be 2880 containers which you would still have to beam up to the ship and down again. Considering a delivery of this size would need antigrav to be delegated anyway. Aside from that, a delivery through a Stargate is a very sure thing. Or more sure than one with a ship as ships can be much easier stopped or at least delayed.
2. Considering that Asgard Matter Replicators are available, i.e. like the replicators from Star Trek, and power generation is becoming a smaller problem, you don't have much freight to transport anyway. Given time you can construct everything on location.
3. I'm pretty sure that the Ancients have found a way to do this and with Asgard technology they should be able to figure it out, it should be possible to code Stargates so they accept incoming wormholes only from a specific Stargate. We know that wormholes can jump if there are several Stargates on one planet. Coding them would allow a civilization to operate Stargate Nexus Stations were several Stargates at once can be operated. Add some Stargates for emergencies, it becomes very unlikely that any colony won't be able to reach Earth in an emergency. Mind that this allows a Stargates Nexus Station to be placed all around a Star System, making any invasion of a planet through the Gate Network rather unlikely, especially as you can simply destroy the station in an emergency.
4. In the long run it is probably more economic to build more Stargates and code them (as in 3.) than building enough ships, considering the size of the galaxy. Ships won't be useless by any stretch of the imagination, but making Stargates pointless? I don't think so. How Sure, you can build ships to be controlled by only 1 crew member, but so can a Stargate and training to use a Stargate and it's security protocols will be faster than for a ship.
Considering colonies, it would probably be best to have a ship deliver an orbital station that is used as a base for the colony and is equipped with a Stargate, a Asgard matter Replicator, , transporter, shuttles, weapons and shields to defend the colony as well as a backup Stargate to be put on the planet in case something happens to the orbital station. Settlers would arrive through the Stargate and beamed down. Containers could be brought in that are meant for temporary housing. I'm sure it's possible to have them fold out to create accommodations that are larger than the original container. Add some imaginations for more possibilities. Like one or more containers being a fully stocked clinic and so on.
you could line up a special train on tracks and then just drive though at a high speed, could probably get several thousand containers and a few hundred passenger cars though in 30 minutes, use some antigrav to lighten the containers and a standard loco could pull a serval mile long train at high speed (record for a 'unmodified' high speed train is ~300mph),
With the tech SGC have you could have a maglev track with a 150 mile long train cruising though the gate at 300mph, which would be about 19,800 containers, which is more then the average cargo ship
also I imagine you could backwards engineer the gate and had multiple 'local' gates on a planet/solar system
Yeap! Just need some Ikea ingenuity to get folded housing to the new colony xD
There is a fanmade story that uses it in a simmelar way. Just send trains trough,
Plus it will always be a super strong military object. Want to ground invade a planet. Beam a stargate down somewhere away from enemies and just flood in an army.
@@mbos14 or other option, put stargate in orbit and fire a tungsten orb with a snail sealed inside through the gate
Hell, you could run a narrow-gauge train through one! Or a whole convoy of medium-sized trucks
I think the reason why the Ashen weren't traveling actively around with their ships wasn't as much because of their ship speed. Though it might be part of the reason. It's more likely that they weren't as interested in it by their nature. Their method of conquest takes decades, possibly even longer. They are patient and methodical. They would thoroughly explore the area around them and take every resource they can use there, because why make the expense of traveling to another solar system if your own have what you need. It's also less risky to stay near your home.
Making use of the stargate to travel further would be interesting, because it would potentially allow to travel further without the investment needed for ship travel.
If a civilization can create stargates, then the size of the gates would be a bit less of an issue, as the Ori showed that bigger gates are possible.
Another possiblity could be to combine the beaming technology with the gates, essentially using the beaming technology to collect what is to be sent from somewhere and then send it through the gate to a receiver on the other site. That would make size pretty much irrelevant, you probably wouldn't even need to be anywhere near the actual gate as well and the gate would only need to be open for a very short time making scheduling a lot easier.
So I would say a lot of the downsides of gatetravel could be mitigated with just the technologies shown in the series.
That's actually an amazing idea. If you could beam through a gate then you could conceivably just have tiny little gates and fit anything through them. They'd be totally OP. Who needs a fleet of costly, giant, crewed space-worthy ships flying everywhere when you can just have a bunch of little micro gates constantly connected to different planets allowing instant beam travel back and forth?
It's the problem of power creep that's bound to happen if you make 17 seasons of a TV show. Now the writers will need to come up with clever solutions.
They just need to focus on galactic politics & alliance building, make the stories more dialog focused & centered around espionage, coups, & terrorism, with a bit of exploration sprinkled in.
Dont forget sgu and 3 movies
@@commoguru Pretty much the premise of SG-1 season 8. With all the big name system lords gone the humans of Earth had to try playing powerbroker between the various factions that took over bits of what was left. It is a shame that the writers decided to take a "same but different" approach with the Ori.
17 seasons is 7 too seasons too long. Or more because I forget what season that happened. After the system lords line came to an end they decided to rinse and repeat with new antagonist. That was boring.
@@WayneBraack 17 seasons is counting three different series.
I mean that’s like asking if your back door is pointless if you can just walk out the front door and walk around to the backyard. You don’t need it back door, but you know if you have direct access something that takes a fraction of the time. Use it. It’s just another tool to use
yep it is a dumb argument.
As others have mentioned, you can't beat the total mass that you can transport through Stargates. The two big limiting factors are that you can only connect to one destination at a time and that you can only travel in one direction. However, you can send data in both directions. And you don't have to route directly to your destination. It would be an interesting logistical challenge, but it would always be faster than using ships.
I think, though, that it would be really interesting to work out communications. You would want to queue up all the data that goes to any destination, and send it in a large data burst every time the gate is opened. Eventually the data would work it's way to the destination planet. There would be some sort of acknowledgement to indicate that a given data packet has reached a given planet, so it wouldn't be resent too many times. As the number of planets grows, you would need to optimize the protocol to reduce redundancy as the amount of data being sent increases; perhaps with redundancy being a priority system.
I'm thinking this would be a fun networking paper for a conference.
yes, also the transport of massive amounts of objects like raw minerals or grain would be easy with ships: it could not take more than two weeks top even if you use "smaller" ships the size of x304s to load materials from the planet to a stupidly big sized super transport ship that acts like a cargo-mothership that transport everything at once
so stargates could still work to transport people and quick materials, while ships could be for stuff that fits more of a secondary role
You're basically dealing with the same networking problem you'd have between planets in a solar system. You need a set of store-and-forward relay stations to handle the long-latency, one-way, and unreliable radio links. Same deal with the stargate network, except instead of the latency coming from radio propagation, it's from the time between gate diallings.
@@Roxor128 and, of course, the individual links in the Stargate network are not one-way for data transmissions, which simplifies the protocol work enormously since you can at least get one-hop acknowledgement of delivery in near-real-time. Means you can treat individual links as reliable while active.
I think that the stargate is pretty handy as a way of shortening sequences in the show. Travelling by starship, the limitations on travel speed which are specific to an organisation like the SGC make it necessary to show that travel isn't instantaneous. Since wormholes create a shortcut between two points in space, you can just have the characters step through the gate and arrive on another world in moments.
I think something to consider is that there's an assumption here that any off-world colonies would *want* to have all of the same infrastructure that we have here on Earth. Of course there'd be a great desire to have water/plumbing, electricity/power, but it doesn't necessarily follow that colonies with tall skyscrapers and huge industrial or business centres would be the desired end product.
This would probably be especially true if your colonies were being set up to be agricultural- or mining-based, depending on what equipment you might want/need.
If you were to ask a lot of people these days about if they'd go and be part of one of the first off-world colonies, and it meant you wouldn't have to go work in an office at a computer working long hours to pay for a house you barely live in, there's quite a few that I think would say yes. Ask those who want to live sustainable lives by growing their own food on their own farm, and have a few solar panels set up for electricity.
Other things to consider have to be what's required to transport personnel on a ship.
Firstly, there's the cost of building the ship itself, along with supplying it with enough trained personnel (which also suggests an education system specifically for those job roles). Then there's food/water/oxygen/healthcare just for those people for the required trip, along with extra in case of emergencies.
Then you have to factor in what every additional living-being coming aboard is going to need of those things, in addition to the 'permanent' crew. In addition, there's whatever cargo needs to go along with them to wherever they're going.
I'm fairly certain at one point Ancient/Asgard technology is shown as being able to beam data through a Stargate. Just put everything in a buffer, beam it through, and have it be 'unpacked' on the opposite site. Then there's the whole matter-synthesisers shown in the last episode of Stargate that we got from the Asgard.
TL;DR - Stargate are good for taking people/living beings, ships are good for taking cargo, since non-living cargo doesn't need to have those four things accounted for, unless you can beam the data through a Stargate to be reassembled on the other side, in which case ships only really become useful for attacking/defending from other ships, or exploration/science in space in general.
Also, don't assume that every colony is going to *want* to be exactly like Earth.
I see it as several methods of travel. Like we can travel by car, plane, train, or boat and get to the destination we want. They all have advantages and disavantages. I think the next evolution of a stargate should be a gate that has independent locks that float and can expand to any size needed to allow much bigger things to go through the gate.
That would require a custom gate on both sides, otherwise it would be like a supergate dialing a regular gate. I wouldn't want to end up in that situation.
Or a gate that doesn't need a ring to dial, we do know ringless artificial wormholes are a thing thanks to the finale of Atlantis. And needless to say that they would have to be pretty big to fit a ship that size. Say a group of partially ascended ancients split off from the main group and developed a civilization in yet another galaxy. They would be advanced to a different and likely more advanced level after spending possibly millions of years of near godhood level knowledge and abilities. Maybe a gate that just folds space or projects a doorway like an iconian gateway. It doesn't have to be the ancients of course, they can't be the only ones to have thought about such a device in the entire universe. And the Stargate universe is bigger than most in science fiction, the destiny has traveled a million light years or more per year and been doing it for millions of years so we're talking trillions of light years. That's putting it at about 100 times the size of the visible universe btw.
Just putting the possibilities in perspective, the lore needs some new material and possibly a bigger threat. Artificially ascended beings like the replicators or other powerful godlike entities like the giant crystal skull aliens. Beings born from primordial energies made sentient, stuff like that.
Or here's a thought, maybe make a show where you get to see the future of the Stargate program and what we've done with the advanced technology after a hundred years or so. A future where we have hundreds of types of ships of all sizes and have colonized hundreds of worlds and skipped type 1 and became type 2 civilization thanks to the shortcut of technological development. We can't build zpm's yet but we're halfway there level of development.
Galaxy gate to speed transitions between galaxies and offer fast ship travel to places outside the gate network and seed new gates in a human built separate gate network that hostile have no access to
In my Stargate fanfic SGC built tactical gates are created from nanites so that they have variable apertures based on the need for communications, personnel or small ships. Its a great tool in the arsenal and expanded fleet doctrine I designed for the story.
I think it will always be useful like how motor vehicles didn’t render trains obsolete. Its still useful for transportation and exploration. Daniel mentioned there were still thousands of unexplored worlds out there. It might just be set up in an off world base
You mentioned trains and made me sad. Yes trains are still used, but for transportation they aren’t as used anymore b/c of cars, and I like trains.
@@sg-24 True in USA. But in Europe and Japan, they are still used that way.
@@sg-24Rail networks still offer a considerable amount of efficiency if the surrounding infrastructure is suitable. Rail here in the US is hard because things are so spread out - in smaller countries with high density infrastructure though, rail makes a lot of sense.
@@sg-24 Because of all the subsidies and infrastructure for cars. Trains and light rail can be viable solutions for cities and can even make certain flight routes obsolete
@@sg-24 Go to Europe, China, Japan, India...
The showrunner had said his pitch to Amazon for a 4th series would have taken place in a situation where humanity had built their own Stargate and had gone public. It would have been interesting to see how they tackled the logistical issues you mention in the video.
@Soul Index I heard about that, I hope Amazon uses his idea.
@@sg-24 i dont know man. i dont really trust any modern writers to do stargate any justice. if they go ahead and actually make new stargate content im almost 100% certain it will just go the way of star wars, star trek, hell they even got lord of the rings, and that was amazon specifically. id rather they all stay far away from one of the last great sci-fi series.
a few things can be done to make stargate useful :
1) A galaxy wide hyperdrive disruption event : kinda like what happened in pegasus with the secret lab a tech (or celestial occurence or whatever) that prevents hypoerdrive travels (or hinders it by making the drives overload and need constant stops to cool down) could be a nerf to ship travel to make gates more relevant
2) make a full reboot story, maybe in an alternate earth. After all we have alternate timelines so let's use them. This way we could build a less ship centric storyline
3) story centered in a place where you can't use ships : that's basically what stargate destiny did, they were stuck in a ship that was in constant movement so pretty much impossible to reach by other ship so they had to use the stargates to reach other places, a shame they axed it when it was starting to get good.
maybe a mix of 2 and 3, for instance have a freak accident that would have a whole planet (alpha site/beta site etc) get throw into an alternate universe (so it a way a soft reset and they would be stuck using the stargates to reach any place in space).
Something I learned about stargates is that the more there are the more it becomes an issue to use them (for instance in games like stellaris, if you have 2 gateways that makes a link it's easy to manage, if you have 30 the games will crash because it has issues calculating routes, same way for gates that would have horrible schedules to connect multiple gates, in the end most scify games have gates "synced" in pairs so it's just a passage to a specific destination and it bypass the whole scheduling issues, but of course it also prevents any "exploration".
It's ridiculous how fast the tech development in Stargate is compared to real life. It takes NASA 20 years to build the JWST but in SG they churn out spaceships in yearly intervals with insane improvements.
Can you imagine if you only had a single lane road going into a major city like one truckload at a time? But then again, the cost of a full size hyperdrive spaceship that still takes a few days to get to the other side, has to land, etc... vs a stargate which could almost continually send goods back and forth non-stop. Imagine you had train rails on both planets, and a train could just take a few hundred containers in a matter of minutes. That would be insane!
The logical thing would probably be to create a space station (presumably much cheaper than an intersteller ship) with beaming tech for local delivery. That, coupled with a stargate-train for the interstellar bit would work well
Stargates are basically long range tranporters that digitize, move that data across lightyears and reassemble.
Stargate tech taken to it's most advanced conclusions would be to transport entire realities across the multiverse.
I mean it can be used to travel to other universe, but I wouldn’t say that was its primary function.
There's a huge difference. A massive difference. Ships are great but they're slow, have a schedule to keep and are prone to difficulties en route. You can't just send a ship somewhere because of one person or a group of people because it throws off a lot of planning, logistics and so on. Gates are more of a long-range teleportation device. You can live in Colorado, go to work in the Pegasus Galaxy and be home for dinner.
I love that the Stargate fandom lists ftl velocities in units of lightyears/second. At great distances for interstellar travel anything that can't be measured in (integer) lightyears/month or faster means you aren't moving out of your home system.
Although it might be worth pointing out that if the Pegasus galaxy in Stargate is the real world Pegasus Dwarf Galaxy, then velocity of the ship in question (making the trip in 18 days) is only 2 lightyears/second, which puts it near the bottom of the list displayed at 5:45.
Even with the speed of ships going up, the Stargates still offer several advantages.
1) Fuel efficiency. A Stargate with DHD does not need fuel or external power sources. A ship does need fuel.
2) Navigation. With a ship you need to plot courses to avoid obstacles. With a Stargate, you just switch in on and you are there.
3) Speed. Even with ships being able to traverse between starsystems in a matter of days, it's still days vs seconds.
4) Cost. There are Stargates that were left untended for millenia and still work perfectly fine. A ship on the other hand needs regular maintanance, upgrades ect.
5) Personell. You essentially don't need any personell to operate a Stargate. If the traveler knows the symbols, they can put them in themselves. A starship on the other hand needs at the very least a pilot, who learned how to fly the ship. But more likely we are looking at crews between a dozen and thousands, depending on the size of the ship.
Sure ships have definite advantages in some areas, like flexibility, not being bound to a single bottleneck, being able to go to places without a gate, ect., but it's not an either/or question to begin with. The two systems can easily be used in parallel to complement each other.
And in regards to the size issue, that's only relevant if they keep using the same gates. From Orrin and the Ori we know that Stargates can be made in vastly different sizes, from single-person to massive starship sized.
Building a city using a Stargate would likely involve shipping large machines in pieces and assembling them onsite. Perhaps a site with materials and resources in abundance.
They shipped a large rocket through in pieces and assembled it on the far side in one episode. And they built an observatory and a paved road (with signs) on Cassie’s planet
@@mahatmarandy5977 Agreed, ship are good for find new planets and transport things too big for stargates.
Once a planet has a stargate, you can send many vehicles and machines designed to be sent thru a gate to get the colony started, and they could built their own factories and be self sufficient in a year.
A few changes would dramatically improve the plot holes and logistical catch-22s.
- First, make the Stargate an actual 2-way portal that bends space to connect two points, like the portals in Doctor Strange or in the game Portal. I know part of the Stargate mystique is not knowing what's on the other side so maybe limit how far into the other side one can see. So like maybe past 10 feet the background looks pitch black?
- Second is to allow multiple gates to operate near one another. As the new show develops, Earth might uncover more gates or find planets that act like hubs. If you want to keep the theme of "interstellar travel only" then I guess you could put a limit on how close two gates can be and still connect to one another.
- Third is to allow gates of different sizes to connect to one another with the smaller gate determining the aperture size. The excess space on the larger gate would appear opaque. And for old times' sake, have the opaqueness resemble the original blue shimmer. Heck, an active gate that's not connected to anything yet could use the shimmer as well. This is what Portal does for unconnected portals.
- Bury a huge gate facing up on the Moon and have it be uncovered in a later season which would open the door for spaceships to enter the narrative, no pun intended. Maybe there would be an episode where the team discovers such a gate in another star system and figures there might be one on Earth's moon. And we can call it the Moongate.
- Gates should have a recharge rate. For simplicity, say 1 hour of downtime recharging per 1 minute of uptime, and a max charge of 100 minutes. And each activation would cost X% of the charge, depending on the distance to the other gate. The other gate would also need to have the available charge and whichever runs out of juice first shuts down the connection. There would always be a minimum of 1 minute uptime so even a close connection would require at least 2% of a full battery. This "reservoir" wouldn't simply be electricity but something else that can't be rushed, transported, or replicated.
- Anything placed in the middle of a portal when it's closing would be ejected out one side. Nothing would get sliced in half.
Well, I believe SG will still be used for exploration. Since there is an exponentially greater chance to find something interesting by using the gate, then scouring galaxy by using a ship. As galaxy mostly empty space and Gates are placed at interesting(at least initially) places by default.
The stargate is not "exploration". Someone had to already have been there for the gate to be there in the first place. In SG:U, there were many "seed ships" sent out ahead to do the exploration and drop gates on interesting worlds.
@@jfbeam just because 'someone' has been there doesn't mean its not exploration. The point is WE haven't been there. It's the same if someone were to say they went out and explored the a city. Clearly someone has been there and build the city already, but the person saying is going out to discover themselves what it is that was constructed.
@@jfbeam That someone ('Ancients') wasn't SGC or humanity, so for us it is exploration.
That something that happened was the Asgard giving their drive to Earth, and having it stolen by the Goa‘uld. Even early on in Stargate, the Asgard seemingly magically moved between starsystems in seeming seconds, to the amazement of not just the humans. They often don’t use Stargates, until the replicators decimate their fleets. And intergalactic drives or lack of that technology remain a plotpoint until the very end of Stargate Atlantis or longer. While I agree that from the Earth centric viewpoint, it might seem so sudden, it may not be as much for others. As for the Stargates, it is clearly meant as a way for less advanced people and regions without such a big government funded ship efforts to still be able to travel in the Ancients role as shepherds to human populations. It’s clear they themselves are already able to cross into other galaxies with hyperdrives before inventing Stargates, since their inventor is literally shown leaving the Ori galaxy on a ship while talking about his idea in the Ark of Truth.
Stargate is practically power crept out of existence in the Atlantis finale when they use the mcguffin drive to gtfo of pegasus
I know im late to the party with this, but my personal headcannon is that the stargates are meant to be a supplement to interstellar travel, not an all-out replacement.
Given that the ancients were an advanced society, they surly had the means to transport enough goods by ship to set up a colony and use a gate to keep in contact and have a means of getting a basic trade route while setting up and in the eatly life of said colony.
Even if this wasn't the case, an alternative could be a means of facilitating communication between future civilisations.
Despite being late to the party I really do like your comment. As I do think you are right in this is how the gates are meant to be used. But a lot of the first comments on this video were people arguing that yes you can relay on the gate for almost anything.
As far as intergalactic travel, a ship having a ZPM was needed to make the trip that fast. Hyperdrive seems more affected by the power available to pump into the drive. We see a similar thing where the replicators upgrade a Gou’ald ship to make a trip that would take months happen in a matter of hours.
I am going to disagree with your use case assessment.
First the acceleration of ships in Star gate happened as the USAF was plugging in hyper advanced Asgard hyper drives and then super charging them with ZPMs. Both of which would be limited options for many of their races or missions. Additionally there is a finite limit to the number of ZPMS the SGC has and they are unlikely to be building new ones even in the decades since the end of series.
Second From a tactical standpoint the gates are a bit of a choke point so warships actually make more sense for the System lords, USAF, replicators, Wraiths and other galactic powers would want to invest in such. Even without the time of travel issues. If an Iris or force field could be put up or the gate just closed you can see a problem. Even just stationing guards around the gate entrance can end most would be invasions fairly quickly. As such it was a limited value for empires. Primarily it’s value would be in trade. As trade is generally a mutually beneficial investment.
Third from a trade perspective in think Stargate travel could be made more efficient by a sophisticated race with a couple modifications.
Imagine putting the gate at the end of a rail line. Now on the other side you build a rail line to match. When you dial the gate you can now run higher volumes of freight and passengers through the gate across planets. In looser canon on occasion vehicles like Jeeps have been advocated for the SGC. The primary limitation to such being the set used for the gate room.
We see that the Ancients built multipurpose craft “puddle jumpers” specifically to use the gates. Imagine a craft like that in diameter but longer and it’s basically the same idea as my train. A cargo craft able to move high values of trade.
The Gao’uld also attempted such. For fighters but I think the difference in concept shows how the System lords scrapped theirs well the Ancients didn’t. I mean the tactical limitations comes back into play. Once the poor population meant to be on the receiving end of the needle threader figures out to just put the gate in a very tight space. The utility is gone. But if your just in friendly trade. Or moving about for meet and greats then the gate system is perfect. It’s instantaneous travel for goods and people no need for expansive space crafts. As long as it’s friendly and it fits through the gate it’s pretty good.
On colonization. The issue there can be easily addressed by changing your mindset on construction. Mostly the bottleneck on building comes from building everything on earth then shipping. That limitation would be on ships as well. A fix would be to prefabricate modular buildings and structures send through your workers to seed and then have them insitu start expanding. Now eventually yes you will want large cargo ships but that is more for volume of cargo.
That's okay, we can disagree.
For you first point while ZPMs were used to supercharge ships, it wasn't done all the time. When the Dedalus went to help Atlantis during the Siege it took 4 days to get there with the ZPM charging it, but after words when it was traveling to the Pegasus it did so only under the Asgard Hyperdrive. And the hyperdrives don't need ZPM to reach or jumpstart the speeds to get to Pegasus in two weeks. The Apollo was able to do it and it was never given a ZPM.
For you second point this is just something I missed completely. For this video I was too focused on the trade and colonization stuff that I comply forgot that Stargates do have military uses to them. I do agree with you that stargates do have limited military use, someone else pointed out they do have some, and as such I plan to do a video about that topic later.
For your third point, WHY DOES EVERY ONE KEEP BRING UP TRAINS TODAY! I joke that does sound like a really cool system to set up and the use of vehicle could solve some of the issues. Generally, agree most of what you said for this point, but I do disagree in one area. That being the issue relying on a single form of transportation, yes you can try and make bad aid fixes, but the issue still remains relying on one from of transportation.
See I go the inspiration for this video after doing some work in a warehouse and saw an issue occur. See we had to ship these items out by 4 pm when the FedEx truck would show up, but suddenly he started showing up and hour early. It was creating a problem because we weren't getting enough item ready to be shipped out by then. Now it was a simple fix, the boss called FedEx and asked them to go back to the 4 pm time. But with the Stargate that might to be an option. In the current SG a lot of the trade seems very low level, but for the industrial side of trade gets a bit more complicated. And heck looking back on military use if the Lucian Alliance wanted to mess with Earth's trade, they could just keep dialing Earth (and their trade partners) over and over again.
I did want to thank you, this was a really interesting comment, and it gave me some insight on this topic that I may bring up in the fallow up, whenever that comes out.
@@sg-24 Well - Asgard hyperdrive is scalable thing - Thor managed to get between galaxies under an hour just in Thors Chariot... they simply had enough power to do so.
but problem likely lies in what Hermiod said - it will eventually burn out the hyperdrive (not the reactor, the drive itself) if done too often.
And lets be said - Asgard were, by far, best race in hyperdrive technology in that setting. If we go by the book then 10000 year old Vanir scout craft made it to Milky Way under a day.
But - SGC ships likely could barely house one neutrino-ion reactor of rated power.
@Paerigos that’s a good point. But I’d argue while not the masters of it yet, Earth will learn to master the Asgard’s hyperdrive tech now that they have the core.
@@sg-24 Again its likely just question of scale. A ZPM is essentialy a bottled star a limited battery.
Asgard reactors were just that - reactors which needed to be refueled eventualy. but those things on bottom of Belisknir were absolutely massive - like alone they would be size of X303 each.
Earth simply doesnt have option to build on such scale and keep SG secret.
@Paerigos Oh I agree there’s no way they could do that and keep the SG a secret. That’s why at some point they will have to. And even then it won’t happen right away. They would need to be sometime to develop the tech, perfect it, and use it in this way. I think one comment said it may take a century to get to that point. Not sure it it would need to take that long, but it would be inevitable.
It's only a problem if you have an activation limit. You call someone on a phone their line is busy. As long as you don't have real limits on using your phone than its not really an issue. A spaceship however once it's launched its committed until its done which takes time. A stargate with infinite uses is an asset that you are severely undervaluing. One of the ways you can get around the busy signal issue is to put your gates on a ring schedule in which traffic is on a continual circle. You start at gate 1 on earth which cycles to gate 2 on Rigel gate 3 on Vulcan gate 4 on Alpha Centauri, Gate 5 On Epsilon Indi which thens cycle to gate 1 Earth. Keep all gate running on a continues basis and even if Rigel has a supply emergency you don't lose the entire highway because of it. If a gate fails than the one behind is mapped to the next gate in the cycle.
Ships will do ship stuff but the gate network will be used as airlines and to explore gate networks
I really like that comparison. Most people compare the gates to trains and ships to cars. But I think airplanes is more fitting.
travel by ship often takes far more resources to make a trip over the use of a stargate, unless your going to another galaxy where you need enough power to make the connection.
stargates in many ways are still superior to ships, however it's possible they can learn from the supergates that the Ori built and they could make more of these for other galaxy's kind of like mass effect relay stations.
Stargates are bottle necks though. Ships might have their own drawbacks but you can send a fleet and land it all over a planet
@@photoo848 Ehhhhh, they're both bottlenecks in their own way.
Ships also require specialized skillsets and large amounts of manpower. You need a large, fully trained crew to maintain and operate a ship of any appreciable size. Most gates can be operated by one part-timer, or 3-5 full-time employees if you want an iris guard on staff at all times.
@@photoo848
this is why i also brought up the super gate, they still have their unique uses, it would be stupid to get rid of one for the other in my opinion.
because sometimes a gate address is blocked or the gate has been buried and can no longer function like they need, so to send a ship would be at least another idea that works.
I'd build train track right up to the gate. Just think how much of the real world was developed by first building a rail connection. Settling a planet would go really quick once tracks were laid at the destination.
It’s not Stargate without a Stargate.
It might be more that Stargates stunt the development of ships. The big boost to humanity for ships was them being given a Asgard level of hyper drive, while for the rest things still seem rather stagnant. While ships can be fast, this convenience of Stargates seem to halt the development need to make better ships. Remember the Asgard are from a society outside of the Milky way, and they met up with the Alterans at a later point, and the Asgard were already ancient species by this point. Human ship got really fast because they had he Asgard helping them who didn't have the Startgate hampering their ships to begin with.
its not hat Stargates are pointless, it that's they hamper the development of alternative by being too useful.
@Jon Manson I really love your conclusion here.
The problem of incredibly fast FTL in some circumstsnces while lengthy in others was explained in Star Wars lore by saying the FTL was dependent upon the space traveled which was affected by the gravity of large stellar objects and dark matter hence fast currents and conduits existed and so did untraversible space in hyperspace. We tend to think of the speed of transit being absolute but even the fastest car would have difficulty offroad.
That’s a great point and I think would be a great explanation, but the issue is that this has never been established in SG.
@@sg-24 Coronal Mass Ejections seem to put enough stellar mass such to corrupt the projected end coordinate of a stargate wormhole. Hyperspace flight seems to have no problem traveling through planets. They have different weaknesses.
Honestly, they have the massive ability to move equipment and personal quickly.
In hindsight, all of these things were "true" as of S1E1, ...they just hadn't been discovered yet. A long list of technologies were out there, some millions of years old, yet quite new to us. That was part of the fun. You never knew what the next episode might bring.
But we soon came to understand that each technology had its place. One never truly "replaced" another. Each "tool" had its purpose. We saw a set of rings save the day when other tech was unavailable. And we all had the same reaction to that scene...as if we had all forgotten that the rings were "still a thing". We were brought back full-circle. A nice way to tie everything together. Just like when Ba'al had the idea to implant a symbiote into Adria. The very idea of that took some viewers by surprise. Full-circle again.
Stargates really shine as endless pipelines. Imagine troops marching through. More troops than any ship could hold. Ot the gravity of a black hole. Or an energy wave from an ancient device. No ship can carry that in its cargo hold.
Yes, many new technologies were waiting to be discovered. But they were waiting on the other side of the Stargate.
That’s a very good point, but we have seen there’s a kind of end state to this.
Someone brought up to me that the Asgard, despite have more knowledge about how the gates work than Earth, almost never use them. If they need to do something they default to using their ships. And we kind of saw Earth begin to use the ships more, especially in Atlantis. I’m sure they will always find a way to use the stargates, especially for finding new technology, but it seems like at some point ships will become the primary use.
@@sg-24 The ships represent a whole "other half" of the story. Example: How many planets are out there, of extreme significance, but they simply don't have stargates? How many Ancient outposts? We've already seen at least one with no stargate.
As the timeline of the Ancients progressed, even THEY viewed the stargates as an afterthought. They had already seeded gates where gates would serve a purpose. They soon found themselves with bigger fish to fry. Exploration went onto tha back burner as they fought to overcome the plague and the Wraith. At one point, they were lucky to recreate life before faced with other challenges.
What I really like is how that particular timeline demonstrates that not all technologies always advance together. Some leapfrog ahead. Then even those get left behind as yet another technology eclispes that one. The Destiny was sent out prior to the advent of hyperdrive. FTL was the best they could do. And seeding stargates was their best hope for getting from place to place. Then they end up transcending space. Able to simply appear anywhere in the galaxy at any time. That was their over all journey. Always trying to get somewhere else as fast as possible. Ultimately learning that their destiny was to learn to be absolutely content being any one place that they happen to be...within themselves rather than throughout the universe.
Look at us. We've placed our faith in the cloud. All our films and music. They technically don't even exist. Not in any tangible form that a future anthropologist could dig out of the dirt. They literally "ascended". They evolved to the point of casting off their physical forms. But some of us maintain a collection of LP's just in case. At least the anthropologists will be able to find those. Perhaps that is why they are called "records". Lol.
One major downside of the stargate. Is they are in a mostly fixed position. So if you don't want someone else using it. You can just burry it or barricade it.
As species get more and more advanced their usefulness drops off, but many arent very advanced and the gates are extremely useful to them. Besides in SGU we discovered that there are gates in galaxies billions of light years away from the Milky Way possibly all over the Universe, so they can still be very useful even to highly advanced species, or rather species that posses very fast means of travel.
The Aschen, as I remember it, were described by Carter in 2001 as basically sticking to worlds that did not need address recalculation for their stargate, at least when they were first (well, technically second, after timeline reset) encountered, like they were focusing on systems where they knew habitable planets and especially established civilizations were located. Also, if you'll notice, the Aschen stargates weren't technically modified, they were just attached to a robot arm, kinda like the shock absorbing and energy/computer interface braces Earth had with extra features.
As for stargates vs ships, one thing we don't have concrete information on is energy efficiency comparisons (I mean, they used a freaking car engine and jumper cables in 1969 to give it enough power to get back home, albeit it is known that it will passively absorb energy so no telling how much it had in reserve). If it takes a buttload more energy to send an actual ship, that could give a major reason to use the gates on a regular basis, on top of speed and ease of use.
Based on how they're mounted, the ancients probably mostly used the Stargates to move people, probably VIPs, and as a communications system.
I think, by the time the asgard hyperdrives were given to the earth ships the Stargate was somewhat obsolete from a meta perspective anyway.
We already had a feel for the major factions, the threats were all galaxy scale or extra galactic, Stargate travel was pretty much at its theoretic maximum.
By that point, the Stargate network's advantage was that it existed, while earth had like, 5 ships.
Heck, the asgard didn't use Stargates. It was established pretty early that super fast hyperdrives would be the 3nd point when thor was popping by earth for his weekly visits.
Actually, the Asgard DID use stargates. Their colonies in other galaxies had gates -- ones they made themselves. How else do you think Jack got to one? We see them come and go from Earth by the gate several times. We've even seen _ascended ancients_ traveling by gate a few times.
I don’t think they’re necessarily pointless - the gates are essentially rapid transit networks to strategic locations throughout known space. As long as what you are moving is not too big, they are always going to be preferential when speed is of the essence.
Ya now with modular building you can transport what you want to transport in pieces. My question how long of a train that can fit the star gate use the star gate?
I know the stargate has a width and height limit but does it have a length limit as well?
@Logan Shaw to my knowledge no, The only thing we see travel through the stargates with any real length is the puddle jumpers.
@@loganshaw4527 The answer to that is: kind of. It has a time limit of 30 minutes, so the limit of length is based on the length you can shove through in that timeframe.
@@sg-24 yes the ancient Vehicle designed for the star gate.
It's only natural that ship speeds would surpass the Stargate speeds. Stargate travel is essentially instantaneous whereas ships always move at the speed of plot.
to a point but there's so much time lost with the prep, embarking, travel time, then the debarking, etc. The point to point access of the stargate will always be faster. This topic really seems a stretch.
Like how the Stargate fanfic Mirror Image, a crossover with game X-Com, one of the first biggest thing they would thought off, using the second gate in orbit, allowing almost instantly transfer cargo into orbit, by sending it offworld once and back again
The ships were handy for setting up off world sites as well. They always liked to take a gate to a planet without one to set up their Alpha Sites. They also clearly used it to move supplies and heavy machinery since the final Alpha Site we saw was basically a smaller Chianne Mountain base. But in that way the gates can be useful for secret bases. Moving a gate to a planet the Goa'uld or whichever enemy they face hasn't found is pretty handy. Come and go as you please and the enemy never sees your movements. And with how big a galaxy is, they would be hard pressed to find it via just world to world searches. It's like way back when I worked at a Kroger. My boss had this habit of calling me on weekends for extra shifts I really didn't want to take. But this was before cellphones were super common so when I went to visit my dad, he couldn't reach me for those shifts. A fun part of that was I lived in a different town from the Kroger, but my dad lived in the same town. So, my boss couldn't find me when I was practically right under his nose.
In the original movie, Ra's ship didn't have hyperdrive (since at that time the lore wasn't established yet to that point). How do we know this? Because as Ra arrived on Abydos, he was first seen leaving the Sarcophagus. In the movie's lore, there were no System Lords, Ra was the last of his dying race, so the only reason for him to use the Sarcophagus at that point was as a stasis pod for long distance travel. Imagine Ra left Earth in the Ancient Egypt era, when the people rebelled against him and he was on his way to Abydos the whole time. Abydos was in another galaxy, the series later retconned it as the closest habitable planet in the Milky Way, but that wasn't the case in the movie. So it was a very very long trip, which is where the Sarcophagus comes in handy. Which in turn makes a counterpoint against the hyperdrive.
So in that light the Stargate had a clear point, it made travel much faster, since humanity reached the stage, where the gate was found in Ghiza, 2 world wars were fought and the gate was opened with dr. Jackson's help. The expedition led by col. O'Neil arrived on Abydos at almost the same time as Ra's ship did. One left Earth long time ago, the other just a few moments. The gate surely shortened the travel time for the same amount of distance. I mean almost instantaneous travel is (and always will be) better, than any hyperdrive could achieve.
I was going to mention that in the movie Abydos was on the "other side of the known universe". In the show it was close enough to Earth to not be affected as much by stellar drift, that the stargate address still worked. I have to disagree on Ra just getting to Abydos from Earth for the first time since the Earth rebellion. The people on Abydos would have developed a completely different way of life if They hadn't seen "the gods" for that long. They were obviously used to regularly delivering naquadah to the pyramid. If it had been thousands of years since the gods had been there, those beliefs would have been long forgotten.
The pod was used to sustain him. There were still his guards, support staff all around. I never took it as a stasis pod as the same pod was used by Jackson to be revived. Ra in the movie even mentioned how easy it is to maintain a human body. I've watched the movie dozens of time and never divined that there was no type of ftl travel.
To be fair the original movie takes place in a different universe.
@@Joshua-ew6ks Is that your take on it?
Of course, if you want to see Stargate on hyper steroids, there's the Expanse. The more interesting consequence of the discovery of the gates is that it pretty much kills the effort to terraform Mars.
Why not just open the gate and beam it though the gate then wouldnt that just make moving supplies even faster like hey open the gate "beaming noises" ok supplies arrived close the gate
There's also the fact that you could build Stargates in different sizes. O'neill points out that the Tollans stargate is smaller than theirs. There's also the Ori supergate which can transport entire fleets of ships in an instant.
That is true, but keep in mind those were build by people way smarter than the people of Earth
Well, with stargate technology, if used properly, everything but personel transport would be pointless. It is already established, that the gates recreate everything (in that one episode, where the people were "trapped" inside the gate due to malfunction(?), they had to just pull that transfer out of memory and redo it) so they could just send something once, and then just copy it in memory and send locally some mass for energy, and anything can be created by gate.
OMG, I just had a scary thought, imagine if they made a remake of Stargate with all this woke politics……
Have you watched it recently? They were pretty inclusive, especially for the late '90s to early '00s. That used to be a good thing.
Oh, you mean like the original SG-1 was? "Woke" politics isn't new. People just came up with a new word for it, and whine about it a lot more loudly.
Another thing to consider is resource expenditure. If it only cost say $1000 to open a gate and you are able to transport a million tons of material in 15ish seconds over the 30 or so minutes the gate can be open. Sending a ship might cost way more to send the same supplies. Additionally, you need to feed the crew, power the ship, maintenance overhead ect. Finally, for the same cost of the ship, you could open the gate many times and transport even more supplies.
I'm not sure about this, I think the stargate program will be public knowledge by the time we get to see next installment of the franchise.
Something I use to believe that, even in Hyperspace you still accelerate, and maybe once you're leaving the galaxy, you can accelerate even faster. With this you can at least partially explain longer travel times at shorter distances
One way to fix this is to start seeing the stargate as having two major systems. Which also explains things like that time Teal'c got stuck in the gate and the one way travel two way radio. Those being the wormhole and the teleporter separate those and you could plausibly have them figure out how to use other teleporters with the stargate, rings and the Atlantis teleport booths being plausible. If the gates being used as transport for an interstellar civilization you would have a schedule of dialings and then teleport remotely instead of directly through the gate.
I remember one episode that involved time travel where the gate was in storage somewhere. Went through, and we only ever got the warehouse area to see.
@blitzkrieg2142k I don’t recall that one. I remember one where it was in a wear house, but it didn’t involve time travel.
One thing to consider, thought they never did it in the show, Stargate + Asgard teleporter. Open gate to destination for 0.005 seconds teleport entire group of whatever to the other side close gate. If dailing speed could be increased a rotation could be made to maintain supply line to many wolds at the same time by instantly transporting massive quantities of good/personnel over vast distances in an instant.
I'm fairly certain it would work as the Stargates are already demonstrated as being able to send EM radiation, as long as whatever the teleporter uses to transfer the data/energy is at least similar. It is even possible that both the target and the dialing planet would be able to send thing through at the same time since radio waves can go both ways.
I just wish they took the leap of faith and make a series where the stargate program has become public knowlwdge, atlantis is decloaked, and earth has expander both beyond the planet and five ships
Having human colonies would be like the 2001 episode where it is like an airport hub
Without checking whether others have brought up the following arguments or not (I'm pretty sure someone must have), three things popped into my mind. 1) The Ori developed the Supergate and we have seen similar concepts in The Expanse as well, 2) It's not necessarily ring shaped gates, the idea is to travel through a wormhole, that could potentially be of a different shape and 3) this will always be `Stargate` - meaning that this is the title of the franchise, it wants to be about this. So anything would be invented in relation to the idea of a Stargate.
Sorry you relay in response, but in order.
1. This is something a lot of people have brought up, yes the Ori did make the supergates, but Earth can’t make even basic stargate. Also it seems like in order to make supergates you need to destroy planets to do so.
2. That is true, the wormhole drive does exist (my bad for missing). So using wormholes out the ring is possible. But that kind of makes the gate more pointless, because now you never need a gate, just the wormhole.
3. This is a really good point, the gates will always have a purpose in this franchise. Which is why I made the video. It kind of feels like the “magic” surrounding it has faded in favor of ships.
Look at the setup the Ancients had in Pegasus (which predated their ascension, so it's the closest we see to their time in the alliance with the asgard, furling, and nox).
The stargates seemed to primarily be for scientific and civilian use. The jumpers may have been armed with those OP drones, but the numbers were limited. Makes it feel more like a police or simple self-defense armament than for military purposes.
But their military vessels were huge, fast, and armed to the teeth, capable of wiping out fleets on their own. A massive, astonishing difference from what is possible via gate.
But in a defensive situation against a foe who doesn't have access to the gate network, the gates can be used for resupply, reinforcement, or evacuation. They could even, with the ancient's shields, be used for a shock offensive, if you hauled a warship through the gate one piece at a time and assembled it in the besieged city, then launched that engine of destruction without them being able to use any kind of anti-hyperdrive tech to interfere with it's arrival.
But overall, they are most useful for allowing travel of small groups for whom time is more valuable than mass moved. Vacationing civilians, diplomats, scholars of all sorts, merchants negotiating trade deals and making the arrangements for either gate transport or cargo ship.
The ancients didn't put all their eggs in one basket, which is where they exceeded the Asgard the most. The Asgard ultimately failed /because/ they routinely put all their eggs in one basket. /ONE/ reproductive method (cloning), /one/ weapon type (directed energy beams). Which cost them badly against the replicators and against the law of diminishing returns.
Simple solution for your colony scenario.
The colony disaster is reported. They have a small team write up a re-worked schedule for gate usage, and as soon as the first dial to the disaster world is done, dial the other 4 worlds and give them the new schedule.
You also keep bringing up ships going trans-galactic. This requires a massive amount of power, a ZPM, to do that. There aren't that many sources of power. It seems that in the gate universe the more power you have the faster you can go through hyperspace. So, the ships that can go trans-galactic in a few weeks are few and far between.
Good idea with the colony report. As for the ZPM the two week mark came from a ship without using one.
another thing too is when mckay devloped the blink drive which teleported atlantise from one area to another in a instant. dark matter has a blink drive too.
I remember at the end of the season of Atlantis dr. Mackay had created a wormhole drive. It was considered a practically instantaneous drive. Dr. Zielinski said this would be the fastest drive. Dr. Zielinski also explained that if it failed you would evaporate. The use of 3 zero-point module would be a tipping point in energy to accommodate the wormhole drive..
"Wormhole drive" was just bull**** bad writing for the very last episode.
Just send a train through the stargate
I could see the Stargates being turned into something along the lines of a large train station, with actual trains designed to fit through them. They would serve a role as a dedicated transport hub for people, goods, and most importantly real time data updates, but things like space freighters would function similar to cargo ships, military would have their own dedicated everything, maybe making use of the gate network every now and then, smaller privately owned transportation may also exist. The end result being that they continue to be an integral but far less glamorous form of transportation.
As for using them for exploration until the entire network was fully explored, that would be a role for younger worlds. Something like Earth would have it's gate running constantly but a newly colonized world would be a perfect place to set up a staging point for exploration with it's minimal gate travel. It would also be better for security in case someone/something tried to follow a team back through.
One thing I give the film credit for is that the writers knew what role the titular Stargate had in the universe of the film.
I always had the head cannon that they where just used for casual foot traffic but all the heavy lifting was done through starships and what not, like a personal car on a road vs a cargo plane in the sky, but just when the empire collapsed the star ships started to vanish leaving only the star gates
A few points. Ships can be blockaded, intercepted, or completely destroyed. This is far less of an issue with the gates unless you have an enemy with a scorched earth attitude who doesn't care if they destroy a gate or even an entire world to prevent the use of it. So there are many scenarios where a stargate can be used to move people and smaller supplies even in a system where there is a colossal fleet of 10,000 ships circling it. There is also the fact that ships operating hyperdrives seem to use a LOT more power than gates even though the gates did used way more power than normal for a trip between galaxies.
There are also a LOT of weird ways to weaponize stargates in horrific manners and the shows only touched on a few of them. Picture instead of grain being transported you drop a gate in the middle of a city of somebody you don't like and take another gate via ship to a planet with a large ocean. Dial the address of the city you want to no longer be there, lower the sending gate into the ocean, and drown them. Or a gas giant. You could wipe out a large population and pick up the gate you used and leave no trace of an attack, just a super weird disaster.
Except gates can be blocked off too. If you dial in, they can't dial out. The Goa'uld and the Wraith both use this tactic against planets they attack.
You can kind of work around the Pegasus travel times by saying that there's no gravitational distortions between galaxies, but galaxies are full of star systems effecting the shape of local spacetime that the ship might have to compensate for and navigate around. You could come up with a reasonable sounding technobabble explanation for the far side of Milky Way being a longer journey than the Pegasus galaxy.
What I find funny, is that we don't actually know if the Ancients themselves used the gates for transportation. Nor do we know their origin or their original purpose. Around 55 millions ago when they were using the fist generation gateways with the Destiny and her seed ships, they already had ships able to travel galaxies very quickly. Suggesting they really didn't need the gateways for fast travel, and at the earliest point we see them the gateways are already obsolete. My personal theory is the gateways were not meant for anything but the Destiny. To eventually send small parties to her quickly for her mission, and then eventually it starting being used across the board. But they were not needed for travel, rather for the ability to instantly send communications. news, and govt policies across the network for a intergalactic empire.
Only being to send people to the Destiny helps me explain a few problems with the gates I have. Nothing about them is ideal for regular usage for mass travel. Their size, their one way nature, and the small window of usage. I think over the years they got repurposed when they saw how good they were, but I just have the feeling they were not meant for general usage or transportation.
That’s actually a really good question and I love you explanation.
I would imagine by the time we'd worry about logistics in the gate network we can likely beam through the gates.
Stargates are analogous to jet travel for us: good for sending people and high priority items that need to arrive quickly. However, bulk transport is done by ships on water or by rail on land. If it doesn't need to get there right away, it's just more cost effective.
We actually see a "space train" in season 10 of SG-1, in episode 15, "Bounty". It's being used to transport a shipment of kassa. If there's eventually going to be interstellar trade and supply chains, those kinds of vessels will be the backbone of that system.
Eclipse Phase, a tabletop game, has some interesting uses of their gate: a gate in the Sol system tends to have its usage booked down to the second, for instance, so to support offworld colonies, they have trains that go screaming through the gate.
Another thing they do is divide up their gate network into nodes - albeit in this case, in no small part, because of the unreliable and compartmentalised nature of their gate network. A gate train could, for instance, go through to a hub world, and then have its cargo separated and forwarded through another gate whose schedule isn't so absurdly packed.
I think that the gates themselves were meant mainly for ease of travel to low-traffic destinations that didn't justify setting up a whole spaceport for receiving starships. The Ancients themselves had hyperdrives not much slower than those employed by the Asgard (i.e. travel between Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies in under a week when powered by a ZPM, which in turn implies travel between any two points within a single galaxy in a few hours). When you needed to send thousands of tons of stuff or thousands of people all at once, ships were more efficient, but the gates were more useful if you were just sending a handful of people, or if you had a high-priority situation in which saving those few hours mattered.
Stargate is flex. Something you grind years to build. The ultimate goal of gtnh.
what episode is 8:41, the one with the malp?
@John Icon
I love the 2010 gate terminal because that same location was used in the movie bordello of blood
7:30 It’s actually not as difficult as you think. Because you can do it the same way they made their offworld bases: Take the machines through as pieces instead of taking them through pre-built, and sending people through in single file. It’s actually *much* faster than using a ship since using a ship would require making multiple trips due to the ships only being able to carry so many things. Plus there’s the issue of limited air supply, so you can only take a limited number of people by ship as well. In fact, the fastest and most efficient way to do it would be to use *both* a ship *and* a Stargate. Use the Stargate to take through the people and all the small stuff, and only use the ships for large things that take a long time to put together.
It's called a land train, doesnt require track, can be used in any undeveloped place till tracks and a platform can be set up, I can guaranteed transport more goods through a gate than on a ship
You're forgetting something important: Fuel and power reserves. Earth starships are powered by naquadria reactors (eventually) giving them tremendous longevity. Go'a'uld and others might be able to bring their warships to a world, then need to collect fuel there (or have it shipped to them via a stargate) before they can travel further. Between Naquadria and Asgard tech, the SGC has effectively surpassed those other factions' hard technological limits.
Building multiple and larger gates is the way ahead. In a universe where you can travel instantly or move through slow space, instant travel is always going to have the edge.
Y'know, theres a book by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw of Zero Punctuation fame called _Will Save the Galaxy for Food_ where the opposite ended up happening. The basic premise of the book was that the discovery of quantum tunneling or "quantunneling" technology that led to the creation of gates that allowed instantaneous travel to anywhere in the galaxy eventually ended up putting starship pilots out of business since the average person no longer needed to rely on them in order to travel to other planets.
You can also consider the development of the Ori Stargates that would allow for larger items to be teleported through as the network is expanded.
I mean the name of the show would be pointless if they didn't use Stargates that's true. But I think you're missing the bigger implication.
If they chose not to use Stargates. In this new iteration. Like Stargate Catherine. It will be over before it ever began.!
So if that's their problem. They got bigger problems.!
You make a very good argument for the use of ships over the Star Gate. But installing a Star Gate within each ship could very useful. Instantaneous secure comms back to home, or fast evac if necessary.
Makes me think of Peter F Hamilton books. Basically all human worlds are connected by Stargates with railways built into them. Move massive amounts of cargo.
THANK YOU for bringing up Infinity, most forget that it exist
Oh trust me I will never not bring up Infinity.
@@sg-24 if you don't already have a video, maybe go into why Stargate Infinity is often forgotten. My brother once in a film class had to bring it up to the professor that it existed.
@Kafj302 I do have some big plans for Infinity once 2024 comes around as I believe that’s the year it take place in.
Great points. I think if I were writing the next series I would impose a limit on what ships can do, to keep the gates relevant. Say, Asgard engines travel incredible speeds, but only in intergalactic space, not within a galaxy. Or ships can travel very fast but then need to "cool down" for weeks before they can do it again. Or even just say ships are highly visible, everyone can see them coming, so gates are used for stealthy exploration. You'd have to come up with some reason though - it's not Stargate without the gates being central to everything.
We already have a real life situation that is at least similar to this situation: shipping via sea/rail or air? Air is much much faster, but a bulk of shipping still happens by rail and sea.