Terrific video. Everyone who is thinking of solar should watch this. I work on 500 MW and above whole grid economics but am increasingly having to look at economics of solar and trying to explain to people the adverse economics of what is happening to grids because of subsidised solar. There are a lots of householders and electricity economic regulators who just don't understand how expensive solar really is and the downside of pretending that a grid tied solar system is a replacement for grid electric. It really isn't. Most people just look at the cost of the panels. It all the other inverters and controllers and critical load panel installation as well as a decent capacity prime industrial generator that is capable of running 24/7 if necessary that adds a lot of costs. A low cost backup generator is not going to provide grid level reliability for more than a few hours.
Well I have the same solar panels for 35 years that is still working just like if they're brands make a new and they charge my battery before the sun even comes out just by the daylight I also got newer back batteries as well as older batteries older than my solar panels everywhere and those batteries still work like they were good so my 45 year old batteries still work you have no idea how long solar panel can work as long as you always baby them or take really good care of them I should say make sure they're clean make sure the wire connections are always good so my 35-year-old solar panels might last another 60 years as if they were still working like brand new I also got newer solar panels but my newest solar panels I got right now are from the beginning of 2022 and they're only 100 w solar panels and 25 what panels I got solar panels that are two years old that a four and five watts solar panels and I got 150 watts solar panels that are 12 years old same with 60 watts and got two of each of both of those and they still work as if they're brand new I also got some 18 Watts solar panels 15 watts of panels and an 80 watt panel. But I did order 275 w solar panels and I ordered them recently and I asked you wonder if they're going to come in the mail or on truck because I ordered 42 of them with converters three 6,000 watt converters that does 120 240 volts but most times I order stuff over the phone tell him I live in Wisconsin Wautoma they never deliver them to my house and when they do deliver them to my house some may come within a couple months times some may come 6 months later some may come a month and a half later some may come a year and a half later and some comes 2 years and two and a half years later and sometimes they never come at all for 12 years I ordered something and it never came so I see a good mailing systems are and everybody says they get their stuff but I don't know if Wisconsin actually belongs in the United States of America or actually is in the United States of America because no one can seem to find it it seems like but I see those delivery trucks come to this town come to the state but they can never find my house they can find everybody else's at my house is not hidden I mean heck they even come across the road from my place and right beside my place they know who I am but they never seen have anything for me they say they didn't see anything like that meaning they never got it and it was probably delivered to someplace else and when I do track it it's always delivered to someplace else and I complain about it and only once I got money back on it other time they've had turned the phone off called wish and they won't give me my money back and I ordered 780 watt solar panels 16 of them with a 9,610 amp charger and they never showed up and they won't even give me my money back so I don't know if I ever order from wish ever again but I will insult wish from now on to the day I die which will probably never.
Video has good info and clears up the basics of the three types of solar power systems. This is where people who know very little about home solar should start.
Thank you very much for your very detailed explainations on the different kinds of inverters. You asked a question on how to get rid of the extra power when the grid is down. I use 2kw x 120vdc wind turbine controllers to redirect the excess power into 138vdc immersion heaters in our hot water tanks. DHWT and heat storage tank. Tot= just over 500 ltrs. This has worked faultlessly since 2012. Our system is 120vdc , 60 forklift cells. We have a 120vdc Yenzhou Shenshou wt cut back to 1500 watt and 4kw of solar pv in 3 strings of 140vdc ( vmp) The wind turbine controllers each have internal dump loDs of 2.8 kW, they eCh have solar access of 660 watt. This was ignored because only one was controlling tbe turbine. So the internal dump loads were bypassed and each redirected to a 2kw x 138vdc immersion heater.. In the mid summer months we use our ch rads to act as cooling rads to keep our Domestic hot water tank from overheating. Even our wood burnings stove becomes a heat dump. Our is a traditional built 4 bed house built just like any other. Just an idea that works really well for us, Maybe you might consider it yourself. A friend has done a similar install in 48vdc. He uses a pair of Tri stars to relay to his immersion heaters dump loads. Good luck.
So I have the Sunny Boy 5000TL-US-22 (4.3kW) on my house. The way it was explained to me was the one 15 amp circuit is immediately available to use when the grid goes down but it is only one 15 amp circuit. NOTE: I have not tried it since installation. The electrician did explain that if the panels are not generating enough (cloudy, night time, etc.) to power this circuit it will not work. It will be in a standby mode waiting for enough juice to come in from your panels and then automatically switch on again. Hope this helps a bit. Thanks for the videos. Good visuals!
You explain things really clearly!!! Professor FarmCraft!!! :)!!! So great to see an actual functioning system demonstrated!!! Thanks for videos!!! Can't wait for the battery-mods follow-up to this one!!! :)!!!
Actually, if you connect your charge controller to your battery bank AND your load (inverter) you can charge & use power simultaneously while the sun is shining. Your excess power would be going back into the grid via an automatic disconnect that would keep the linemen safe from shocks if the grid fails. This arrangement makes for a simple but very useful system that will always keep your house powered AND getting a check from the power company. All of this equipment is available from numerous manufacturers and at fairly inexpensive costs if you figure in that you will not be offline no matter the grid status.
I have two Sunnyboy Inverters for my 24 panel, 8.2kW system. Each has a 2000 watt secure power outlet. I have used them a few times. I have run up to 1600 watts off of each one. If the sun goes behind a cloud and you are trying to pull more power than the panels are producing, it shuts the outlet's power completely off for a minute or so and then resets and restarts. I got this type of inverter exactly for this reason so I could get power if the grid is down. I have been very happy with them so far (14 months).
Nice video. I would like to add that hybrid system can be cheap. There are all in one hybrid inverter/charger/automatic transfer switch unit. And hybrid inverter only has to power critical load sub panel. Additional wrinkle is that hybrid inverter can power the critical load subpanel from batteries even when grid is on, to lower your electric bill since it can sense battery voltage and drain battery up to certain level and then switch back to grid power and let battery recover and repeat.
A hybrid system can be cheaper if you don't require the inverter to run everything when you loose power from the grid. What should you run to make your backup system cheaper? Here are some things that a minimalist would do: - Run LED lighting at a fraction of the wattage; - Wash your cloths with two 5 gallon buckets and a plunger (great exercise); - Don't use an electric or gas dryer; - Have a well insulated refrigerator; - Turn off all devices that draw vampire power when not in use; - live in a smaller, energy efficient house; - live out of your house instead of staying in it all the time. Instead of just looking at cheap initial costs, you need to look at the total cost of living in a place for 7 to 15 years, or even longer. Being as comfortable as possible will require you to do a little initial work on your own.
Could you test the optimiser ...the thing that does the job of the microinverter ? Ie shade a single panel on a sunny day and show how much the power drops?
Been doing some back of the napkin math, I use about 15 KW hours a day of electricity. Averaged out throughout the year. My heat and water heater and stove are gas. I might add an electric heat pump but I'm thinking if I were to get a 6 KW inverter, that would probably run everything. I run a lot of 220 volt equipment though, I was thinking of using a Tesla battery from a Model S but I'm having trouble finding an inverter that accepts that high voltage input
So I am planning to play around with these system when I retire in a few years. With the Off Grid system can you add more than one Back Up item? Generator is one, but could you also add a Wind Turbine to that side of the system. To keep the batteries full during say Rain by the wind turbine spinning up?
Hello. your video is very interesting. I would like to know if it is possible to use a pure sine wave converter 12v 220-240v instead of a hybrid inverter. thank you very much.
when you have a grid tie inverter it tries to push up the voltage so it's able to push energy onto the grid. Without a grid to push it to if the grid tie inverter would be still operational it would try and push voltage in your own system. But theres a safety in these inverters that only allows them to push the voltage up to a safe point. So the inverters will shut themselfs off when there is no grid and a unsufficient load. The same thing can happen in normal grid tie usage when theres to much solar power and to little load in your subsection
Maybe i'm asking the wrong sort of questions, but wouldn't running your hybrid system through the batteries be less efficient? Could you create a system that has an option for you to charge the batteries without requiring it? So that you're running a normal tie in system up till the point where you need/want the battery? Edit: Just watched video 3. The answer for others that are wondering is yes
What do solar panels produce besides electricity? SHADE. Solar panels should be sited where that shade can be leveraged. (Over parking lots and air-conditioned buildings) Not covering nature's perfect solar collectors which are meadows and pastures.
Does the hybrid system change the batteries when the grid is down? Or if the grid goes down once the batteries are empty you are out of luck till the grid is back up?
In off grid system can we use power from grid to substitute exter power that we may require? Like if we use 1500watt systwm and take other 1500 watts from grid
I think the Sunny Boy 3.0 (and above) - US models may be able to tie in with storage solutions as well. I just don't know if it has to be SMA's proprietary Sunny Boy Storage or if it can be something else, like 18650 Powerwall. Hopefully someone will answer your questions from the video. Waiting to hear. If not, I am within the month probably going to buy one and I'll do some experimenting myself.
On page 40 of the Sunny Boy manual it even talks about a multi function relay for charging a battery bank. ressupply.com/documents/sma/SB_3.0-7.7_Installation_Manual.pdf
Found the piece I had read... You have to buy the SMA Battery Inverter. It will work with multiple battery types according to the description (in the parts list). www.freecleansolar.com/SMA-Sunny-Boy-Storage-2-5-Battery-Inverter-p/sbs2.5-1vl-10.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjw64bPBRApEiwAJhG-fhIYtiptfsvlXFsR_EpihX-szzZ5T9pwr7jUTLh-cex_XfKPzf6IQhoCoHUQAvD_BwE.
Awesome information. Many people are foolish for leasing these systems, thinking they can use them when the grid goes down. A recent MSM news piece on the 2017 hurricane said the “people were now allowed to use their solar power after the storm took the grid down”. In reality, it was NOT POSSIBLE for them to use their solar power for their house because of the technical information presented here. I’m looking forward the next video.
so this was how hybrid was done pre-all-in-one hybrid charger inverter controller... i will probably check on the pricing of this setup over the all in one hybrid controller.... if its cheaper this is good enough for me...
Hypothetically, couldn't you have a Hybrid#2 version, that would have the "grid" just charge the batteries? As the grid connections are being phased out, wouldn't that be a way to maintain full or adequate service, and not need the extra system?
No, I don't think so. But many people get the grid tied system to start and then want to add a battery backup, so this is a good solution. If you know you are doing a battery backup from the start, I would just build a hybrid system.
When used within the framework of modern society, the grid tied system is a no brainer when you can find repairs, spares, and get tax breaks. The hard core survival types or get-away-from-it-all types will obviously benefit from the simplest system they can find. The limiting factor of all the systems--solar, windmills, etc. is that maintenance is needed and has costs. It is very doubtful to me at least, that anything we can buy will last long enough to pay off. Of course if we just find it extremely satisfying to get "free" power, then that alone could make it worth it as long as we recognize that. Plus cold beer after a natural disaster.
My house is wired 220-110AC -12DC-6VDC Most of my lighting is 12 -6 VDC LED however the refrigerator is on grid AC . If the grid goes down I can disconnect the frig and run an inverter to operate it, or use an AC generator either take up the charge on the battery system or run directly. I have another charging unit that is an automotive alternator and a 5 HP Honda engine . More efficient than running an AC generator and converting that to DC12 volts . The grid remains completely isolated from my system except for charging batteries when there is constant overcast and no wind .
Shown briefly in the Part 1 video is a Schneider XW inverter connected to a battery bank. The XW has 3 AC connections: 1) AC1 for grid connection, 2) AC2 for an optional AC source, and 3) AC loads. So in theory, one could connect the grid to AC2 instead of to AC1. However, there could be a problems with synchronizing the Grid AC to the AC loads. The XW does not feed power back into AC2 so there should not be a problem. The XW will shut off feeding power into AC1 if AC1 voltage drops. IANAE so read the XW6848 manual.
Yes, for most types of panels. They don't put out much current (10%?) but the voltage ramps right up at daybreak, and they will start charging the batteries right away on a limited basis. Power is limited (to 20-40%?) on totally cloudy days, but they really sing on fully sunny days.
I think there are new systems out there that bypasses the charge controller and dumps to the grid when your bank is full, because the old systems used to heat up a coil like a toaster oven to burn off excess electricity which, if you ever had an electric bill you will understand how expensive running a toaster oven during the day can be, so imagine it being money that could be going into your pocket.
Nicely done. In the case of the Hybrid system, when excess electricity is produced and sent back to the meter, is it necessary for the meter to be configured for net metering? My local utility company refuses to set my meter for net metering, so any excess electricity actually shows up as consumed (which means they charge me for it). Maybe a better question for my application - can the inverter be configured to only accept electricity from the grid and not allow it to flow back to the meter?
yes the inverters can be set to NOT feed back to the grid, Just confirm the guy installing your system knows how to do it, its a program feature on nearly every model of inverters but most people don't know how to set them up.
The device is called a limiter. Some inverters had a built-in limiter if yours don't have, you can purchase an external limiter. It will prevent the inverter from sending excess power to the grid.
Imperial failure rate data on each component should be considered prior to buying the system. Manufacturers of each component don't noise report accurate failure rate data. I used to own a roof manage solar system
If you design the house properly, by either having low electric energy usage, or separating circuits or appliences into critical and non-critical, you can run them separately, or if you do have some automation (i.e. remote appliance control, or some relays, power meters for each socket and other sinks of electricity - more the better as it gives more granularity), you can then deliver power from inverter to only critical systems, or do other fancy things. In fact well designed hybrid system could even bypass the inverter for this non-critical systems. But to do it fully well, one would need a special switching system that can put loads onto two different bars of electricity, and do it safely. Even if the two systems are independent during operation, one would ask inverter to synchronize frequency and phase to be same as the grid, and that will reduce switch time between two systems. The other easy way, is to simply reduce energy usage - good insulation, use natural air convection, LED lights, dry cloths without a drier, high efficiency fridges and other appliances, etc. Heating and water can be done with heat pump systems, plus insulation and recuperation. Cooking can be done with gas as a backup. Etc.
Great series, easy to understand and informative..the only thing I don’t see in the hybrid is how excess electricity in the hybrid system can bypass the batteries and return to the grid...
It's really both at the same time. The energy is sent to the batteries, and the inverter is hooked to the batteries. The batteries are like a storage tank. If the inverter needs energy it will pull it from the batteries. If the batteries are being charged at the same time, the result will be less pulled from storage. If the batteries are being charged with more power than the inverter is requiring, then the batteries will continue to charge while the inverter is pulling power.
What happens when your load is much less than the *available* power supplied? Then that power isn't used. It's kind of like when you plug in a cell phone charger to a 110V outlet, typically rated for 2kW power. Less current flows at the same voltage. As long as the rated voltage of the appliance is >= the supplied voltage, it will just draw as much current (P = IE therefore I = P/E) as it needs.
Can't you just manually shut off the heavy loads (i.e. heat pumps, water heater, stove, etc) before swapping over to your battery backup instead of installing a critical load panel?
The panels have an open circuit, so no current flows. Basically, the panels are "disconnected" when the inverter shuts down, so the solar power doesn't go anywhere.
On this system as designed. I'm sure he is fully accurate, however. there is not only a single way to do this. IT DEPENDS ON STATE AND LOCAL LAWS. In Arkansas, the inverter must meet a level of clean power to meet or exceed that on the grid. There must be a disconnect switch between the inverter and the grid. With that design.. if the grid is down, or just the local segment, you can disconnect (or they can disconnect you manually at the house) leaving you with power but not feeding back to them causing a safety issue. The power company MUST know of the system, mainly so that in the case of a grid down, or segment down.. they know of the possibility of back-fed power and where it is coming from, so that whether you are home or not.. they can disconnect you from them. This is for safety, and so they can make the line safe to repair (good for the neighborhood). Arkansas when last I checked, also required if all this is met (must be installed by licensed electrician etc), then they must pay you for the excess power at -retail- rate. However.. (there's always a gotcha) once a year they zero out the "credit" and it is timed in such a way, that you always, even under perfect conditions, loose some "credit". It is credit only, no check. take time, learn the laws and such applicable for -your- local. If there is a reputable installer that does any work in your state or local.. it would really behoove you to contact them. You're paying for expertise.. not just products. Mistakes.. are more expensive than their expertise. I am in no way connected to the power or any renewable energy company in any way.
Take a look at the Magnum GT500 grid-tie microinverters. No need for a charge controller when you use one of their inverter/charger and you get to grid tie.
Bah! I should have mentioned microinverters, but they are basically multiple small grid tie inverters coupled together. Same end result. Thanks for watching!
@tdidan With the PV Strings connected in series = High DC Voltage, there is no such thing as ... "Elimination of DC transmission loss" when using Micro-Inverters. Having many Micro-Inverters can add too much the bottom line COST. And on a roof mount system, with many tightly packed rows of PV Panels, how do you replace the failed micro-inverter in the middle panel, of the middle row, in the array?
@tdidan DUH !!! I was talking about your *false* statement regarding: "Elimination of DC power Losses" by using micro-inverters. Comparing High Voltage DC ( as is now ) vs AC Voltage ( your suggestion ) the losses are worse for AC, at the same voltage. You do not understand Electrical Engineering ...
I love it when toobers use money sounds and symbols to represent "expensive" without actually stating prices or price increases. something being more expensive literally means nothing without knowing how much more expensive it is 6:55 this question was brought up but wasn't really answered
Look at Sol-ark 8K. that is the best out here right now. I used a Sunny Boy 4000tl-US and SPS is a piece of crap. Not sure why they have it. on a cloudy day when my power went out I plugged in my fridge, and even though the frigged use only 250W running at start uses a lot more, so, when the fridge starts to run the sunny boy will disconnect because the fridge at start, uses more than 400W. I was able to run my laptop, Modem, Firewall, Monitor. When the grid goes out the Sunny Boy will not tell you how much power is producing. I only know that it was producing 400W because the power came back.
The additional cost is offset by not needing a self starting 10kw generator fuel storage periodically testing running it changing oil at least once a year or several days running maintaining battery on gen keeping gen warm if it's cold where u are to prevent battery draining oil gumming up making using it EASY ENUF EVEN FOR THE KIDS
With a grid tie installation when the mains power goes down the least these expensive grid tie inverters could do is reroute the solar power to heat your hot water and a few power outlets to keep gadgets going and maybe the fridge freezer? Instead it seems to say 'fuck you, you spent all this money on me and now I'm gonna just shut down when you need me most'!!!!!
At some point wouldn't it be easier to build a 2nd house just for the solar panels, lol? What I'm suggesting actually is running everything completely separate, keeping the "power company" service ORIGINAL and as was. I mean since you're running a battery pack anyway, rewire the house for completely separate outlets strictly for solar, and manually move the plugs back and forth to solar or "power company", depending on demand, time of day, sun shining or situation. Separate overhead can-lights and switches obviously.. This doesn't seem like too much of an inconvenience, beside a generator would mean you could cancel the power company altogether, with just one set of wall plugs, power boxes, etc, since you've come this far.
You make it sound like grid tie systems will overheat in a grid power fail event because all of the electricity is going nowhere. I rather doubt this but maybe you could expand on it. I suspect the solar power just becomes heat, the same amount of heat that the solar panels would produce if they didn't have the magic going on inside them.
Not overheat. The voltage would get too high and cause problems in the electrical system. Of course, that's why grid-tie inverters are equipped to automatically shut down when the grid goes down, which prevents this from happening.
I have a question do you work for the electric company???? The whole point of solar energy is to power your property without depending on the grid or anyone. In what world would you spend $17,000 and grid tie a self efficient system to give away thousands of dollars to a utility company. If you live in a place that gets lots of sun yes you will probably make more then you use but the charge controller will stop from charging your batteries. Think about it.... All those years you paid full price to the electric company for your electric use, now you have an efficient solar powered system you are making the electric company redundant so they decide to rip you off by buying it back at wholesale prices. You are not getting anything from them you are certainly not getting the amount they say, they are getting from you. That would not be a good business deal on their part. Have you any idea how much electric they collect for free????? Millions & millions of killowatts being fed back from your property which is not being metered sent back to the electric company using your ground wire. If you don't believe me put an amp meter on the ground wire. You people are total idiots.
Do you have high blood pressure? Chill out... No, I don't work for the electric company. The point of a grid tie solar system is to generate clean power and to make a good financial investment. Installing a hybrid or off grid system is more expensive and requires a lot more work. I don't sell electricity at all, because I use all that I generate. Because I would have had to buy that electricity at retail rates, I am earning retail price for all the electricity I generate. I have a net meter, which keeps track of the electricity going in and out of my system. Are you implying that net metering is a hoax? Or were you not aware that I have that type of meter. Based on your comments, I suspect you've never heard of net metering.
No I don't have high blood pressure.... but it is a very nice solar energy system you have and like a lottery winner you have beggars trying to get some free. The electricity company is one of those beggars. They know how popular solar energy is getting and while they can they will try and boost their profits on you and others backs. Most of the regulations that govern the energy sector are put in place by the big bosses of the energy company's. Most are directly or indirectly linked in the political big wheel. So when you have the opportunity to break free do so, you will not regret it.
@@malcolmdastur4411 When you "break free" from the Grid, you will pay even more per kWhr consumed. Why do you want to pay more? The goal is to pay less ...
Hi. I have a hybrid system. It no work like you say. The inverter synchronize whit the grid. If the solar production exceed the demand of the house it start to charge the battery’s. Wen the battery are full and if I don’t configure the export limit to 0 the excess of production goes to the company grid.wen the demand of the house exceeds the solar production it try’s to fulfill whit the battery and even if that are not enough whit the grid. I don’t use the EPS output at all. I thinking to use it only for my servers and computers at home. Sorry for my poor English but I am Portuguese
This is, hands down, the clearest description I've ever seen/read of how and WHY all this works. Thank you, and well done!
Terrific video. Everyone who is thinking of solar should watch this. I work on 500 MW and above whole grid economics but am increasingly having to look at economics of solar and trying to explain to people the adverse economics of what is happening to grids because of subsidised solar. There are a lots of householders and electricity economic regulators who just don't understand how expensive solar really is and the downside of pretending that a grid tied solar system is a replacement for grid electric. It really isn't. Most people just look at the cost of the panels. It all the other inverters and controllers and critical load panel installation as well as a decent capacity prime industrial generator that is capable of running 24/7 if necessary that adds a lot of costs. A low cost backup generator is not going to provide grid level reliability for more than a few hours.
Well I have the same solar panels for 35 years that is still working just like if they're brands make a new and they charge my battery before the sun even comes out just by the daylight I also got newer back batteries as well as older batteries older than my solar panels everywhere and those batteries still work like they were good so my 45 year old batteries still work you have no idea how long solar panel can work as long as you always baby them or take really good care of them I should say make sure they're clean make sure the wire connections are always good so my 35-year-old solar panels might last another 60 years as if they were still working like brand new I also got newer solar panels but my newest solar panels I got right now are from the beginning of 2022 and they're only 100 w solar panels and 25 what panels I got solar panels that are two years old that a four and five watts solar panels and I got 150 watts solar panels that are 12 years old same with 60 watts and got two of each of both of those and they still work as if they're brand new I also got some 18 Watts solar panels 15 watts of panels and an 80 watt panel. But I did order 275 w solar panels and I ordered them recently and I asked you wonder if they're going to come in the mail or on truck because I ordered 42 of them with converters three 6,000 watt converters that does 120 240 volts but most times I order stuff over the phone tell him I live in Wisconsin Wautoma they never deliver them to my house and when they do deliver them to my house some may come within a couple months times some may come 6 months later some may come a month and a half later some may come a year and a half later and some comes 2 years and two and a half years later and sometimes they never come at all for 12 years I ordered something and it never came so I see a good mailing systems are and everybody says they get their stuff but I don't know if Wisconsin actually belongs in the United States of America or actually is in the United States of America because no one can seem to find it it seems like but I see those delivery trucks come to this town come to the state but they can never find my house they can find everybody else's at my house is not hidden I mean heck they even come across the road from my place and right beside my place they know who I am but they never seen have anything for me they say they didn't see anything like that meaning they never got it and it was probably delivered to someplace else and when I do track it it's always delivered to someplace else and I complain about it and only once I got money back on it other time they've had turned the phone off called wish and they won't give me my money back and I ordered 780 watt solar panels 16 of them with a 9,610 amp charger and they never showed up and they won't even give me my money back so I don't know if I ever order from wish ever again but I will insult wish from now on to the day I die which will probably never.
Video has good info and clears up the basics of the three types of solar power systems. This is where people who know very little about home solar should start.
Thank you very much for your very detailed explainations on the different kinds of inverters.
You asked a question on how to get rid of the extra power when the grid is down.
I use 2kw x 120vdc wind turbine controllers to redirect the excess power into 138vdc immersion heaters in our hot water tanks. DHWT and heat storage tank. Tot= just over 500 ltrs. This has worked faultlessly since 2012.
Our system is 120vdc , 60 forklift cells. We have a 120vdc Yenzhou Shenshou wt cut back to 1500 watt and 4kw of solar pv in 3 strings of 140vdc ( vmp)
The wind turbine controllers each have internal dump loDs of 2.8 kW, they eCh have solar access of 660 watt. This was ignored because only one was controlling tbe turbine. So the internal dump loads were bypassed and each redirected to a 2kw x 138vdc immersion heater..
In the mid summer months we use our ch rads to act as cooling rads to keep our Domestic hot water tank from overheating. Even our wood burnings stove becomes a heat dump. Our is a traditional built 4 bed house built just like any other.
Just an idea that works really well for us, Maybe you might consider it yourself. A friend has done a similar install in 48vdc. He uses a pair of Tri stars to relay to his immersion heaters dump loads.
Good luck.
This is a great video - part 1 is also good. We are getting solar panels and I was confused about several things. Your video cleared it all up for me.
be sure and ask about the life expect. of each of the components, I noticed that he left that part out
Quite possibly the best video on solar on RUclips
So I have the Sunny Boy 5000TL-US-22 (4.3kW) on my house. The way it was explained to me was the one 15 amp circuit is immediately available to use when the grid goes down but it is only one 15 amp circuit. NOTE: I have not tried it since installation.
The electrician did explain that if the panels are not generating enough (cloudy, night time, etc.) to power this circuit it will not work. It will be in a standby mode waiting for enough juice to come in from your panels and then automatically switch on again.
Hope this helps a bit. Thanks for the videos. Good visuals!
Very interesting series, very detailed but dones in such a way as it is understandable. The diagrams are great. Thanks for making this series.
This is brilliant. Been looking for a tutorial reminding me about all this for a few weeks. Many thanks!
Great video, you are the best youtuber on solar i have seen so far. keep up the good work and awesome system BTW, THANKS
You explain things really clearly!!! Professor FarmCraft!!! :)!!! So great to see an actual functioning system demonstrated!!! Thanks for videos!!! Can't wait for the battery-mods follow-up to this one!!! :)!!!
Actually, if you connect your charge controller to your battery bank AND your load (inverter) you can charge & use power simultaneously while the sun is shining.
Your excess power would be going back into the grid via an automatic disconnect that would keep the linemen safe from shocks if the grid fails.
This arrangement makes for a simple but very useful system that will always keep your house powered AND getting a check from the power company.
All of this equipment is available from numerous manufacturers and at fairly inexpensive costs if you figure in that you will not be offline no matter the grid status.
Great, now waiting for the next one
I have two Sunnyboy Inverters for my 24 panel, 8.2kW system. Each has a 2000 watt secure power outlet. I have used them a few times. I have run up to 1600 watts off of each one. If the sun goes behind a cloud and you are trying to pull more power than the panels are producing, it shuts the outlet's power completely off for a minute or so and then resets and restarts. I got this type of inverter exactly for this reason so I could get power if the grid is down. I have been very happy with them so far (14 months).
Cool. That is a nice feature to have.
Hey, can you use this feature to run a Fridge?
Nice video. I would like to add that hybrid system can be cheap. There are all in one hybrid inverter/charger/automatic transfer switch unit. And hybrid inverter only has to power critical load sub panel. Additional wrinkle is that hybrid inverter can power the critical load subpanel from batteries even when grid is on, to lower your electric bill since it can sense battery voltage and drain battery up to certain level and then switch back to grid power and let battery recover and repeat.
It takes "some time", even for electricians and/ or PE's to fully become proficiently acquainted and skilled with solar setup.
You did a great job with this first time I understood how solar functioned
thank you so much for sharing the idea about 3 types of solar
A hybrid system can be cheaper if you don't require the inverter to run everything when you loose power from the grid. What should you run to make your backup system cheaper?
Here are some things that a minimalist would do:
- Run LED lighting at a fraction of the wattage;
- Wash your cloths with two 5 gallon buckets and a plunger (great exercise);
- Don't use an electric or gas dryer;
- Have a well insulated refrigerator;
- Turn off all devices that draw vampire power when not in use;
- live in a smaller, energy efficient house;
- live out of your house instead of staying in it all the time.
Instead of just looking at cheap initial costs, you need to look at the total cost of living in a place for 7 to 15 years, or even longer. Being as comfortable as possible will require you to do a little initial work on your own.
If you tie a off grid inverter from the load port to a hybrid inverter,would it work?
this is a neat series - thanks!
masterful job with the breakdown sir
Could you test the optimiser ...the thing that does the job of the microinverter ? Ie shade a single panel on a sunny day and show how much the power drops?
Good idea. I may give that a try.
Another, very well done video sir... Cheers!
Been doing some back of the napkin math, I use about 15 KW hours a day of electricity. Averaged out throughout the year. My heat and water heater and stove are gas. I might add an electric heat pump but I'm thinking if I were to get a 6 KW inverter, that would probably run everything. I run a lot of 220 volt equipment though, I was thinking of using a Tesla battery from a Model S but I'm having trouble finding an inverter that accepts that high voltage input
Great and informative - funny too. Thank you for all of this.
Awesome content!
So I am planning to play around with these system when I retire in a few years. With the Off Grid system can you add more than one Back Up item? Generator is one, but could you also add a Wind Turbine to that side of the system. To keep the batteries full during say Rain by the wind turbine spinning up?
Hello. your video is very interesting. I would like to know if it is possible to use a pure sine wave converter 12v 220-240v instead of a hybrid inverter. thank you very much.
when you have a grid tie inverter it tries to push up the voltage so it's able to push energy onto the grid. Without a grid to push it to if the grid tie inverter would be still operational it would try and push voltage in your own system. But theres a safety in these inverters that only allows them to push the voltage up to a safe point. So the inverters will shut themselfs off when there is no grid and a unsufficient load. The same thing can happen in normal grid tie usage when theres to much solar power and to little load in your subsection
Good explanation.
Maybe i'm asking the wrong sort of questions, but wouldn't running your hybrid system through the batteries be less efficient? Could you create a system that has an option for you to charge the batteries without requiring it? So that you're running a normal tie in system up till the point where you need/want the battery?
Edit: Just watched video 3. The answer for others that are wondering is yes
What do solar panels produce besides electricity? SHADE. Solar panels should be sited where that shade can be leveraged. (Over parking lots and air-conditioned buildings) Not covering nature's perfect solar collectors which are meadows and pastures.
why cannot run heat pumps with the inverter? have on the essential list?
Does the hybrid system change the batteries when the grid is down? Or if the grid goes down once the batteries are empty you are out of luck till the grid is back up?
lmao, the "meh panel" had my dying
In off grid system can we use power from grid to substitute exter power that we may require?
Like if we use 1500watt systwm and take other 1500 watts from grid
Can you run a back-up generator with the grid-tie system with the use of an ATS?
I think the Sunny Boy 3.0 (and above) - US models may be able to tie in with storage solutions as well. I just don't know if it has to be SMA's proprietary Sunny Boy Storage or if it can be something else, like 18650 Powerwall. Hopefully someone will answer your questions from the video. Waiting to hear. If not, I am within the month probably going to buy one and I'll do some experimenting myself.
On page 40 of the Sunny Boy manual it even talks about a multi function relay for charging a battery bank. ressupply.com/documents/sma/SB_3.0-7.7_Installation_Manual.pdf
Found the piece I had read... You have to buy the SMA Battery Inverter.
It will work with multiple battery types according to the description (in the parts list). www.freecleansolar.com/SMA-Sunny-Boy-Storage-2-5-Battery-Inverter-p/sbs2.5-1vl-10.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjw64bPBRApEiwAJhG-fhIYtiptfsvlXFsR_EpihX-szzZ5T9pwr7jUTLh-cex_XfKPzf6IQhoCoHUQAvD_BwE.
Another great video!
Awesome information. Many people are foolish for leasing these systems, thinking they can use them when the grid goes down.
A recent MSM news piece on the 2017 hurricane said the “people were now allowed to use their solar power after the storm took the grid down”. In reality, it was NOT POSSIBLE for them to use their solar power for their house because of the technical information presented here.
I’m looking forward the next video.
I have a off grid setup for my shed with one panel for now
so this was how hybrid was done pre-all-in-one hybrid charger inverter controller... i will probably check on the pricing of this setup over the all in one hybrid controller.... if its cheaper this is good enough for me...
Hypothetically, couldn't you have a Hybrid#2 version, that would have the "grid" just charge the batteries? As the grid connections are being phased out, wouldn't that be a way to maintain full or adequate service, and not need the extra system?
Is AC coupled system you have ultimately a cheaper and more efficient way to provide what a hybrid system provides?
No, I don't think so. But many people get the grid tied system to start and then want to add a battery backup, so this is a good solution. If you know you are doing a battery backup from the start, I would just build a hybrid system.
@@FarmCraft101 thank you for your reply. I was under the impression that the hybrid is more costly than the AC coupled. I may have misunderstood.
Can you buy the solar panels online?
or did you go with a company?
When used within the framework of modern society, the grid tied system is a no brainer when you can find repairs, spares, and get tax breaks. The hard core survival types or get-away-from-it-all types will obviously benefit from the simplest system they can find. The limiting factor of all the systems--solar, windmills, etc. is that maintenance is needed and has costs. It is very doubtful to me at least, that anything we can buy will last long enough to pay off. Of course if we just find it extremely satisfying to get "free" power, then that alone could make it worth it as long as we recognize that. Plus cold beer after a natural disaster.
My house is wired 220-110AC -12DC-6VDC Most of my lighting is 12 -6 VDC LED however the refrigerator is on grid AC .
If the grid goes down I can disconnect the frig and run an inverter to operate it, or use an AC generator either take up the charge on the battery system or run directly. I have another charging unit that is an automotive alternator and a 5 HP Honda engine . More efficient than running an AC generator and converting that to DC12 volts .
The grid remains completely isolated from my system except for charging batteries when there is constant overcast and no wind .
Can we use grid in off grid system as an alternative of generator?
Shown briefly in the Part 1 video is a Schneider XW inverter connected to a battery bank. The XW has 3 AC connections: 1) AC1 for grid connection, 2) AC2 for an optional AC source, and 3) AC loads. So in theory, one could connect the grid to AC2 instead of to AC1. However, there could be a problems with synchronizing the Grid AC to the AC loads. The XW does not feed power back into AC2 so there should not be a problem. The XW will shut off feeding power into AC1 if AC1 voltage drops. IANAE so read the XW6848 manual.
Another great video! - Thank you, and subscribed!
Excellent.
Are PV panels able produce power with any light?
Yes, for most types of panels. They don't put out much current (10%?) but the voltage ramps right up at daybreak, and they will start charging the batteries right away on a limited basis. Power is limited (to 20-40%?) on totally cloudy days, but they really sing on fully sunny days.
SolarEdge has a solution to charge some batteries with their battery storage solution.
Was this option available to you?
mother-in-law's room... nice one.
I think there are new systems out there that bypasses the charge controller and dumps to the grid when your bank is full, because the old systems used to heat up a coil like a toaster oven to burn off excess electricity which, if you ever had an electric bill you will understand how expensive running a toaster oven during the day can be, so imagine it being money that could be going into your pocket.
Nicely done. In the case of the Hybrid system, when excess electricity is produced and sent back to the meter, is it necessary for the meter to be configured for net metering? My local utility company refuses to set my meter for net metering, so any excess electricity actually shows up as consumed (which means they charge me for it). Maybe a better question for my application - can the inverter be configured to only accept electricity from the grid and not allow it to flow back to the meter?
Yes, you need a net metering meter. I'm not sure on the inverter being configured that way, but I would bet yes for a good inverter.
yes the inverters can be set to NOT feed back to the grid, Just confirm the guy installing your system knows how to do it, its a program feature on nearly every model of inverters but most people don't know how to set them up.
The device is called a limiter. Some inverters had a built-in limiter if yours don't have, you can purchase an external limiter. It will prevent the inverter from sending excess power to the grid.
I’m confused I contacted a hybrid inverter seller and they say it is for only non grid tied.
How to make a system that can do both grid tie and non grid tie and also always be able to charge and run off batteries &/or the grid?
Imperial failure rate data on each component should be considered prior to buying the system. Manufacturers of each component don't noise report accurate failure rate data.
I used to own a roof manage solar system
If you design the house properly, by either having low electric energy usage, or separating circuits or appliences into critical and non-critical, you can run them separately, or if you do have some automation (i.e. remote appliance control, or some relays, power meters for each socket and other sinks of electricity - more the better as it gives more granularity), you can then deliver power from inverter to only critical systems, or do other fancy things. In fact well designed hybrid system could even bypass the inverter for this non-critical systems. But to do it fully well, one would need a special switching system that can put loads onto two different bars of electricity, and do it safely. Even if the two systems are independent during operation, one would ask inverter to synchronize frequency and phase to be same as the grid, and that will reduce switch time between two systems.
The other easy way, is to simply reduce energy usage - good insulation, use natural air convection, LED lights, dry cloths without a drier, high efficiency fridges and other appliances, etc. Heating and water can be done with heat pump systems, plus insulation and recuperation. Cooking can be done with gas as a backup. Etc.
Thanks for the video
this is excellent!! thank you
Amazing video! But how do you find the time to do these and run a farm as well? You must be one of those ‘4 hour a night ‘ sleepers!
I could be wrong but in Washington St. excess power goes to the grid.
I have a hybrid system that feeds into the grid. 2 sets of inverters
Hybrid is the =only= way to go if you're around the grid. ChaCHING, but worth it.
I ask this question on your other post.I'll ask it again. What happens to the solar cells when (instead of rain) you get 1 to 1.5 inch hail ?
The panels are pretty tough. Just like a skylight I guess.
Great series, easy to understand and informative..the only thing I don’t see in the hybrid is how excess electricity in the hybrid system can bypass the batteries and return to the grid...
Hey!! I can't understand why batteries are first charged and then the power is sent to the inverter
It's really both at the same time. The energy is sent to the batteries, and the inverter is hooked to the batteries. The batteries are like a storage tank. If the inverter needs energy it will pull it from the batteries. If the batteries are being charged at the same time, the result will be less pulled from storage. If the batteries are being charged with more power than the inverter is requiring, then the batteries will continue to charge while the inverter is pulling power.
What happens when your load is much less than the *available* power supplied? Then that power isn't used. It's kind of like when you plug in a cell phone charger to a 110V outlet, typically rated for 2kW power. Less current flows at the same voltage. As long as the rated voltage of the appliance is >= the supplied voltage, it will just draw as much current (P = IE therefore I = P/E) as it needs.
Can't you just manually shut off the heavy loads (i.e. heat pumps, water heater, stove, etc) before swapping over to your battery backup instead of installing a critical load panel?
Where does the solar power go if the grid is down on a grid tie system?
The panels have an open circuit, so no current flows. Basically, the panels are "disconnected" when the inverter shuts down, so the solar power doesn't go anywhere.
FarmCraft101 thanks! enjoy watching
On this system as designed. I'm sure he is fully accurate, however. there is not only a single way to do this. IT DEPENDS ON STATE AND LOCAL LAWS. In Arkansas, the inverter must meet a level of clean power to meet or exceed that on the grid. There must be a disconnect switch between the inverter and the grid. With that design.. if the grid is down, or just the local segment, you can disconnect (or they can disconnect you manually at the house) leaving you with power but not feeding back to them causing a safety issue. The power company MUST know of the system, mainly so that in the case of a grid down, or segment down.. they know of the possibility of back-fed power and where it is coming from, so that whether you are home or not.. they can disconnect you from them. This is for safety, and so they can make the line safe to repair (good for the neighborhood). Arkansas when last I checked, also required if all this is met (must be installed by licensed electrician etc), then they must pay you for the excess power at -retail- rate. However.. (there's always a gotcha) once a year they zero out the "credit" and it is timed in such a way, that you always, even under perfect conditions, loose some "credit". It is credit only, no check.
take time, learn the laws and such applicable for -your- local. If there is a reputable installer that does any work in your state or local.. it would really behoove you to contact them. You're paying for expertise.. not just products. Mistakes.. are more expensive than their expertise. I am in no way connected to the power or any renewable energy company in any way.
ruclips.net/video/gPycyuVJ_Cg/видео.html This explains much more about this topic
Very informative.
Take a look at the Magnum GT500 grid-tie microinverters. No need for a charge controller when you use one of their inverter/charger and you get to grid tie.
Bah! I should have mentioned microinverters, but they are basically multiple small grid tie inverters coupled together. Same end result. Thanks for watching!
Hah! Maybe a topic for another video. Unless RUclips decides that microinverters are of the devil and must be banned?
@tdidan With the PV Strings connected in series = High DC Voltage, there is no such thing as ... "Elimination of DC transmission loss" when using Micro-Inverters. Having many Micro-Inverters can add too much the bottom line COST. And on a roof mount system, with many tightly packed rows of PV Panels, how do you replace the failed micro-inverter in the middle panel, of the middle row, in the array?
@@mrbodo69 COST ?
@tdidan DUH !!! I was talking about your *false* statement regarding: "Elimination of DC power Losses" by using micro-inverters. Comparing High Voltage DC ( as is now ) vs AC Voltage ( your suggestion ) the losses are worse for AC, at the same voltage. You do not understand Electrical Engineering ...
Interesting video
Thx for this good info
Wow nice
Clear!
I love it when toobers use money sounds and symbols to represent "expensive" without actually stating prices or price increases. something being more expensive literally means nothing without knowing how much more expensive it is
6:55 this question was brought up but wasn't really answered
Look at Sol-ark 8K. that is the best out here right now. I used a Sunny Boy 4000tl-US and SPS is a piece of crap. Not sure why they have it. on a cloudy day when my power went out I plugged in my fridge, and even though the frigged use only 250W running at start uses a lot more, so, when the fridge starts to run the sunny boy will disconnect because the fridge at start, uses more than 400W.
I was able to run my laptop, Modem, Firewall, Monitor.
When the grid goes out the Sunny Boy will not tell you how much power is producing. I only know that it was producing 400W because the power came back.
The additional cost is offset by not needing a self starting 10kw generator fuel storage periodically testing running it changing oil at least once a year or several days running maintaining battery on gen keeping gen warm if it's cold where u are to prevent battery draining oil gumming up making using it EASY ENUF EVEN FOR THE KIDS
good info!
Excellent explanation, but the mother in law won't be happy 🙂
Just a note it is called a water heater. Not a Hot water heater.
Is the next vid out yet?
It is: ruclips.net/video/F1q5uIzjj_M/видео.html
But.... what if the sun explodes?
With a grid tie installation when the mains power goes down the least these expensive grid tie inverters could do is reroute the solar power to heat your hot water and a few power outlets to keep gadgets going and maybe the fridge freezer? Instead it seems to say 'fuck you, you spent all this money on me and now I'm gonna just shut down when you need me most'!!!!!
Look up the definition of "Grid-Tie" Inverter. And then compare that to "Hybrid" Inverter. Also you need to compare the COSTS of each systems.
hey i love my mother in law bro!!!
Thank god for Tesla and the Powerwall that has everything you need inside it for $7000
At some point wouldn't it be easier to build a 2nd house just for the solar panels, lol? What I'm suggesting actually is running everything completely separate, keeping the "power company" service ORIGINAL and as was. I mean since you're running a battery pack anyway, rewire the house for completely separate outlets strictly for solar, and manually move the plugs back and forth to solar or "power company", depending on demand, time of day, sun shining or situation. Separate overhead can-lights and switches obviously.. This doesn't seem like too much of an inconvenience, beside a generator would mean you could cancel the power company altogether, with just one set of wall plugs, power boxes, etc, since you've come this far.
You make it sound like grid tie systems will overheat in a grid power fail event because all of the electricity is going nowhere. I rather doubt this but maybe you could expand on it. I suspect the solar power just becomes heat, the same amount of heat that the solar panels would produce if they didn't have the magic going on inside them.
Not overheat. The voltage would get too high and cause problems in the electrical system. Of course, that's why grid-tie inverters are equipped to automatically shut down when the grid goes down, which prevents this from happening.
No one is ever taking the alternative cost of money into account when they calculate how fast they will get their investment back.
The peak power used by some electrical motors can be reduced:
www.microair.net/collections/types?q=EasyStart
Good thing i dont need heat hot water.😅
Found it!!!!
Watch part 3: ruclips.net/video/F1q5uIzjj_M/видео.html
Check out part 1: ruclips.net/video/m5wv4HcRNKw/видео.html
You don't really benefit from optimizers since your entire array is facing the same way and is not partially shaded
when the grid is down? just eat all you have and wait
16 mothers-in-law voted this video down.
L i k e ! ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆
This video was entertaining and informational.
All right thanks.
I have a question do you work for the electric company???? The whole point of solar energy is to power your property without depending on the grid or anyone. In what world would you spend $17,000 and grid tie a self efficient system to give away thousands of dollars to a utility company. If you live in a place that gets lots of sun yes you will probably make more then you use but the charge controller will stop from charging your batteries. Think about it.... All those years you paid full price to the electric company for your electric use, now you have an efficient solar powered system you are making the electric company redundant so they decide to rip you off by buying it back at wholesale prices. You are not getting anything from them you are certainly not getting the amount they say, they are getting from you. That would not be a good business deal on their part. Have you any idea how much electric they collect for free????? Millions & millions of killowatts being fed back from your property which is not being metered sent back to the electric company using your ground wire. If you don't believe me put an amp meter on the ground wire.
You people are total idiots.
Do you have high blood pressure? Chill out... No, I don't work for the electric company. The point of a grid tie solar system is to generate clean power and to make a good financial investment. Installing a hybrid or off grid system is more expensive and requires a lot more work. I don't sell electricity at all, because I use all that I generate. Because I would have had to buy that electricity at retail rates, I am earning retail price for all the electricity I generate. I have a net meter, which keeps track of the electricity going in and out of my system. Are you implying that net metering is a hoax? Or were you not aware that I have that type of meter. Based on your comments, I suspect you've never heard of net metering.
No I don't have high blood pressure.... but it is a very nice solar energy system you have and like a lottery winner you have beggars trying to get some free. The electricity company is one of those beggars. They know how popular solar energy is getting and while they can they will try and boost their profits on you and others backs. Most of the regulations that govern the energy sector are put in place by the big bosses of the energy company's. Most are directly or indirectly linked in the political big wheel. So when you have the opportunity to break free do so, you will not regret it.
@@malcolmdastur4411 When you "break free" from the Grid, you will pay even more per kWhr consumed. Why do you want to pay more? The goal is to pay less ...
Hi. I have a hybrid system. It no work like you say.
The inverter synchronize whit the grid. If the solar production exceed the demand of the house it start to charge the battery’s.
Wen the battery are full and if I don’t configure the export limit to 0 the excess of production goes to the company grid.wen the demand of the house exceeds the solar production it try’s to fulfill whit the battery and even if that are not enough whit the grid.
I don’t use the EPS output at all. I thinking to use it only for my servers and computers at home.
Sorry for my poor English but I am Portuguese