Thing is most homemade EV conversions put the battery in the trunk, or even worse in the engine bay. How's that for crash safety? At least these guys bothered to put the battery where a real EV would. Would probably be better if they didn't though.
The rubber halfshaft disc was most likely a vibration dampener, and I would hazard a guess that it was only on one side due to the different lengths of the halfshafts. Keep up the great videos 👍👍
My Insight had them too, and they have an unintended side effect: they trap moisture and salt. I know this because my Insights axle rusted out underneath one and snapped!
Rip it off! I think it was more important when the car ran on dinosaurs - But I doubt there is any benefit with lighting powered motor. Well, holding rusty, salty water against the axle. That's ONE benefit I suppose.
@@zjanez2868 I'm guessing he's talking about the model prior to the life (the 25mph "we just need to make some money" model of which they sold 300 or however many it was)
Edit: I’m putting this here first because it’s critical. Zip tie those high voltage cables out of the way *now* - that’s not just a breakdown hazard but also a fire and electrocution hazard. Do this immediately. I’d zip tie that throttle cable out of the way somewhere, or even suspend it with a load of zip ties forming a lattice pattern, because eventually that is going to rub through and leave you on the side of the road. I’ll try to stop commenting useless info but if there is anything else, not sure how well I’d keep that promise.
yeah do what Moon Moon suggests before it kills you as I want to watch more Aging Wheels videos and you have to live to make them but seriously zip tie and electrical tape which will help add a wear barrier to the wires so they don't wear through the insulation which will result in electrical leaks causing fire or electrocution
Now what would be fun is a reverse electric conversion, take out the heavy battery pack and power it with a dachshund chasing a cat in a squirrel cage and wheego fast
I almost want to try to shoehorn a 460cid Ford big block into the cargo area of one of these things but, given how fuckulated the unibody is, I think the engine might just rip the car in half on startup.....
well um nope why do you think wheego life's aren't made anymore the ensure that by the time his kids grow up they can't get into a wheego life cause with the car being glued together it will not last that long
The Saturn S-Series from General Motors has same type of lower control arm and anti-sway bar setup. It's not super uncommon on small cars. When the bushings in the control arm itself wear out, you'll get a lot of forward and backwards play in the wheel.
Saturn owner here, I've driven an Sl since I was 16, I'm 21 now and I'm on my 6.5 SL. I hate the control arms, I go through wheel bearings every 10-20k depending on the quality of part.
@@CaptainLicorice i have a 1999 SW2, i seem to go through lower control arm bearings every 5-6 years. Mostly due to the boots failing and water getting in. had a '94 SL2 at 200k on the original wheel bearings. The lower control arms are really easy to replace.
My clutch just broke in my 96 Sl2. Unfortunately it still has that terrible A-frame and I have to do some stupid work just to replace it. Also the starter.
Hmm, hacksawing through several important looking structural beams to fit the batterie pack in would invalid the legality of this car in many l countries I think.
@@agingwheels They might be doing something scummy to evade the need to even do crash testing. What I see under that car makes me think itt'l do worse in an IIHS crash test than my '85 F150 would.
Saturn's were known for the dual purpose torsion roll bar... That disc around axle was a "damper" to help with high-speed deflection. Almost any front wheel drive that didn't have equal length half shafts had them or a bearing that bolted to block for a extension shaft
The older 90s Saturn cars use that exact front suspension setup and when those swaybar bushings go bad it causes all kinds of steering problems . I thinks it's more meant for RWD cars than FWD but I guess it works well enough and its probably cheaper
The basic versions of the Peugeot 205 had a similair setup (the faster xs,gti and diesels had a normal whisbone setup). So it's quite and old suspension setup from a design stand point
Also the solid rear axle. Not as unusual but stupid for a FWD car. The Yugo also had something similar to that bar instead of a wishbone, not sure about the front but it did in the back. Yes, it had 4 wheel independent suspension and used a transverse leafspring like a corvette. I have no idea why manufacturers didn't go to IRS/twistbeam earlier and the Wagon R (which the Noble was based on afaik) still has a solid axle and that came out in the 90s, the Honda Civic didn't get an IRS until the late 80s!
That suspension arrangement is as described in the Patent application for the McPherson Strut and is in fact the only arrangement that should 100% accurately be described as a McPherson strut suspension. My Lotus Excel has the same lower link and ant-rollbar setup, but paired with an upper wishbone.
The rubber hockey pucks are ostensibly there for vibration management, but from experience what they actually do is harbor and hide rust. A couple years ago, my 1999 Integra broke an axle when a stoplight turned green because the axle rusted away to roughly half the diameter of steel that was supposed to be there. Of course I could not see that steel had vanished into oxide until I was stuck on the side of the road with a broken axel.
What would make for an interesting series is pulling the Wheego apart and making it as good as you can. Fix the rust, weld everything up properly, new bushings and try to improve the suspension. The interior could be a next step. I'd watch that. :D Greetings from a fellow Trabant owner in the Netherlands. :) p.s. I like the suggestion that has been done before to get the original car as well! :)
8:10 What happened to the fender? You bought a new one. And this one? Cracked in the same place! We want to know the history of the cracking fender! : D
Well spotted! I completely missed it... Mystery! Content for more videos! :D I want to see him put a sheet metal plate back there and rivet it on :P Going full circle lol...
I have never seen that on a front suspension. On the other hand, I have only worked Volvos, Mercedes, and the larger Citroen and Peugot from that era. Oh... and I have been around Land Rovers. None of the mentioned had anything like that front suspension in the 70's or 80's.
Fiat Sold the Uno here u brazil from 1985 to 2014 and it has the same basic suspension desing. I believe that the Chevrolet/Opel corsa b had something like that too
Audi 100/200 (5000 in US) had that type od suspension. C4 generation of this Audi (after renaming to A6 in 1995) was produced to 1997. EU ford sierra had similar suspension too.
That suspension design was used on the first and second generation Ford Escort and the Ford Tempo. It's cheap and effective, the added compliance of the spring steel roll bar and all the bushings makes the ride considerably softer, though it also allows for more forward and backward movement than other designs. The rubber bit on the axle is a vibration damper, and that's really common. It's only on the long axle because that's the one that likely has a resonant frequency that is likely to be reached in normal use of this car. The damper either cancels out that resonance or changes the frequency to one that won't occur in normal use.
VW Super Beetles (the ones with the McPherson Strut front suspension, not the standard torsion bars) use this exact setup with a single-point control arm and fore-aft location handled by the sway bar. I always thought it was a unique set up too. I never would have guessed a Wheego of all things shared this design.
@@jm036 It was a really big blunder for the Wheego people to chose some obscure Chinese car, in the ideal world they should of gone for a European/Japanese or Korean compact car that's not sold in the USA. Just imagine the electric parts installed in something like a Dacia Sandaro it's a dirt cheap car but built to a good standard since they just raid the Renault parts bin so don't have huge development overheads.
@@wetlettuce4768 you think anyone would give them stuff? lmao I mean I'm sure if they did it a few years earlier zastava wouldn't mind sending a few florida bodies over but I'm not sure how much better a 1988 Yugo would be compared to a modern smart knockoff. Well, the florida at least has a engine bay so maybe it would be safer. Also it had a torsion beam in the rear and not a solid axle so it would be more comfortable. But as for any actually decent car brands, I doubt it. Also who would want a sandero? They could take a logan instead, it's a sedan version of the sandero (well the sandero is a hatch version of the logan techinically)
@@jm036 Nah, the car part is bad. But the EV part is miserable! And I'm sure the car was not designed for this amount of weight. Normally it would be for 4 small Chinese people, like 4x 140lbs plus some for baggage, maybe 650lbs? But 2 grown-up Americans are already 400lbs, which leaves for motor and electronics 250lbs and all the batteries are overweight.
Very interesting videos. I have not thought that the underside of the car is as messy as the interior, but sadly I don tknow what is worse. I am shocked how the insulation of the cables gets worn away. Bending plastic and stuck eco mode buttons at least wont short out the battery.
So the middle of the floor is held together by a dozen or so tack welds ? How this held together long enough to install the battery pack in the first place is a mystery, even bigger one is how driving this around hasn't lead to the entire battery pack falling out.
It has time to fall out (I would say that but at least 10 other things could fail before the battery falling out) intresing setup on antiroll bar (tracking must be fun as it be moving everytime you stop and go)
If you have your own welder, maybe you'll want to reinforce those strange areas you pointed out. Maybe rotating the high voltage shrouds will be a cheap temporary repair until you find some new shroud material.
Good idea for a future video project: Actually compare the undercarriage of a Shuan Chang Noble to the Wheego's as you suggested. I am now prepared for any and all Wheego trivia challenges that might (or might not) present themselves. For that, many thanks!
Based on the video of the toe in / toe out, i'd bet the lower control arm bearing is rotted out. The one on the wheel end of the lower control arm. You'll need a pry bar to wiggle it, because the sway bar will keep it mostly in place otherwise.
The sway bar is being used as a brake rod. I had a Daihatsu that was made the same way. The rubbers on the sway bar are very important as the wheels can move forward or backwards when the rubbers start to fail. With your car I would try to either get new rubbers or pack up the ones that you have to make the connection tighter. Once done you might need a wheel alinement. Also note that on my Daihatsu the rubbers were different hardness depending if they were on the front side or the rear side. I hope that this helps.
That front suspension setup used to be fairly common, more commonly they used a dedicated tension rod but a sway bar doing double duty was common as well.
Never seen a sway bar double as a Thrust arm. Similar suspension setup is common on mostly European but it uses a separate arm for thrust movement. Also, that rubber disc on the CV shaft is there for vibration dampening.
im a mechanic, those rubber blocks on the drive shaft serves to reduce or even remove any vibration caused by the driveshaft, its kinda like the dampener for suspension.
The 2nd Generation Camry has the same front suspension set up. And Mercedes had a similar set up on the upper front suspension of their sedans in the 80s. It’s an old fashioned design, but it works and gives a pretty smooth ride.
The Chrysler F/J/M body platform (Volare, Aspen, Diplomat, Mirada, some models of New Yorker, Cordoba, etc) did away with the strut-rod for front-end location and instead used the weird L-shaped torsion bars as dual-purpose strut-rods. One of the auto enthusiast magazines a few years back took one of those and added proper strut rods and mounting points, and the handling was much improved. They even track-raced it with some success.
After seeing all the hackery under that thing, I think I'd drop the battery pack out and see what's going on in there. High voltage DC currents make me nervous!
Thank you Robert to show us a rare example of what not to do if you convert an ICE car to electric. I didn't know that was possible such a great hack job. love this video and the extended review,Now I love my Nissan LEAF even more! Your video production quality is always great.
My AE86 has 'foreward' control arms where your anti roll bar is. And it's remarkably adjustable. So its like they alllmost got the idea of how a suspension works and made it the cheapest way they could imagine.
The suspension dates back to the 1970s. It is a similar setup to my 1972 Triumph Dolomite. In fact, the Dolomite is a bit better in that it has tie bars at the front to sop front-to back movement and tie bars at the rear to stop side-to-side movement. If you're handy with a MIG, you should sort out the dodgy bodywork.
Front end of a VW super beetle is the same way... But no drive shafts up front... Those little rubber pucks are to help with balance and torque load between the two sides
I wonder if the terrible acceleration has something to do with that tow-in effect, someone noticed it was behaving erratically and did the typical thing today: Limited acceleration in software instead of fixing the actual issue mechanically :P
Land Rover did a very similar thing to Wheego's motor-gearbox shaft in the Defender with the link between the gearbox and transfer box. Splined shaft with no lubrication, it frets, the splines disappear and you get left with no drive. The basic fix is to split the two and grease the coupling, there's a better way that adds some lubrication from the gearbox oil supply. But if I was you I'd be very keen to grease the Wheego's shaft before it's too late.
Apparently the Noble was based on a Suzuki Alto and yeah, that front suspension is the same weird setup. I don't know how the Wheego/noble passed any crash testing. (as reported by wikipedia, so you know it must be true.)
I’m not a big suspension guy yet, I don’t know much (although I would like to), but what I do know is that that front suspension setup is... very different. Basically every unibody car ever made this side of a quarter century ago uses McPherson coilover struts.
Yep that front end is pretty standard stuff. All the Saturn S-series cars had it, older Civics used a similar setup, my Yugo is like that, even the old Mercedes w116, w126, and w123 is like that. Roll bar doubles as the strut rod
I've never really done metal fab work since making a crappy battery powered car in school (no, I wasn't employed by WheeGo!), and I could do better metal patching & welding than that, probably, if I had a working welder... :P
@@TheHonestL1ar You don't. That's the whole point. They are dissimilar metals that do not play nice together. The aluminum will corrode away. Galavanic corrosion is a known issue that plagues certain cars.
@@madmanmapper I am a fabricator, I build trailers for a living. I understand the differences between metals. I also understand how galvanic corrosion occurs. As long as all the steel is painted/rust proofed, the aluminum would be fine, at least for a while(although, the steel is clearly not all rust proofed here). My point was, if the engineers decided the battery pack should be aluminum, how else are you going to attach it to the steel unibody of the car other than by bolting it on? There really is no good alternative. I understand it's not a perfect situation, but if the engineers decided that's how it'll be, the fabricator just had to go with it
@@TheHonestL1ar Well if you understand that, then why make the remark? You knew what I was trying to point out. It's not like I was blaming the fabricators... how would that even be their fault in the first place? The engineers decided on aluminum and they decided on bolts. It's a crap ass car from a crap ass company. Hell, Ford is notorious for using aluminum stuff bolted to steel frames, and guess what happens? It's simply the case that it's either a complete oversight on the engineers' part, or it's planned obsolescence. Not good either way. There are a couple of solutions, though. Electrically isolating the aluminum, for one. And not an attack on you personally, but all the trailers (of the RV variety) that I've seen - even the nice ones - have not had much thought given to longevity.
If you want to see an exciting combination of quirkiness and bodgery, you should consider picking up one of those Vietnamese 1960's "restored" Vespas from Craigslist. Look for one with lots of chrome, 2 tone candy paint, and 10" wheels. I have one and I love it. I had to rebuild everything in it, and it draws a crowd everywhere it goes.
For the rubbing cables, use rubber hose from +- diameter 20 cut open and tyrap them on. Also check the complete wiring loom where you can get to it and do the same thing on issue locations. Im a forklift mechanic and broken wiring is almost a daily problem with all those new machines full of shit sensors and diodes.
A lot if not all of which you complain is good old Made in USA by Noble. The suspension at the front is not unusual, and the change of toe in is lack of service related.
The front suspension set-up, a McPherson strut using the anti-roll bar as the fore-aft location member, is typical European construction of the '70s and '80s. It was even used on notably well-handling and riding cars like the AlfaSud.
How did that ever satisfy basic safety requirements? There is, essentially, *one bolt* holding on each front stub axle assembly, and not a very big bolt either!
To prevent further chafing of lines/wires/whatnot, get some 3/4 heater core line from the local parts store. Cut a piece about 3 inches long for each chafed spot, slashed lengthwise to sleeve over the wires, and secure with zip ties. It'll probably outlast the car.
On this type of suspension the bar that located the control arm fore and aft is called a strut rod. My Lincoln Continental has this setup. Usually it's separate from the sway bar, though my Saturn SL2 also uses the sway bar as a strut rod. I imagine it saves weight.
That bit of rubber is a harmonic balancer effectively. Longer shaft "winds up" at a different rate than the short one so they install a damper to mitigate it. Usually that's to prevent torque steer but on this car I think it's a waste of effort. Also functions as a vibration damper. Most real car manufacturers have gone away from the disc to a center shaft mounted to the body on one end and the trans output on the other. Thus the CV shafts have the joints located the same distance apart which equals the windup side-to-side, reducing torque steer.
The rubber bush is an anti-tramping bush, on the longer driveshafts the shafts flex and with movement transmitted between wheel and shaft in both directions you could harsh resonance which is basically the shaft acting like an excited guitar string, if nothing to alleviate it, it could tear the bearings out the hub or cause damage at the gearbox end or incur fatigue of the shaft itself in the middle flexing points and it also could be very noisy at the roadwheel making an annoying whining or thrumming sound. Some are fixed, some are able to move a bit either way to find the sweet spot, some cars here in the UK would fail an MOT if missing that rubber (Honda's used them quite early on) so it does serve a purpose.
Suzuki Swift 1983 to 1988 used the same front suspension system except the control arms were cast iron. The rubber puck on the cv shaft is a vibration damper.
The rubber donut on the halfshaft is a red-herring. With essentially no mass, no way it's a vibration-damper. It was probably slipped on to avoid having to recycle it. The rear lateral control arm seen at 7:10 is what's known commonly as a Panhard-rod, in fact a sort of kludge that works. Unbelievable QC down there!
Regarding the front suspension; the thing with the anti-roll bar being a significant part of the suspension: check the European Ford Sierra and Ford Scorpio. Put mildly, it's a rubbery feel to the steering, braking and accelleration…...
VW Super Beetle suspension is like that in the front, and I believe some other crappy European cars as well. A single washer keeping the wheel and hub assembly from ripping off and slamming into the fender under braking doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it? lol. Great videos by the way, love your style. One of the few youtubers I'm happy to endure ads for - hopefully they get you a few pennies a pop. Take care.
0:40 I own 1986 ford escort - same "bar" suspension here, anti roll bar plays as triangle as if it was wishbone. Same front suspension is at old Audi 100/A6 and many more old cars
I'm not understanding the rear suspension setup. The bar with the bend in it is bolted to the body at both ends, what the hell is it actually doing., acting as some kind of stiffener? Also, it looks like the trackbar out of a Jeep Cherokee.
Wow. That's outstanding! That front suspension looks down right dangerous. I can't imagine what it feels like to brake hard while turning. No wonder they don't have any stability control and why the abs doesn't work (well). These systems rely on sensors to calculate speed of the wheels, direction of steering, position of suspension... These sensors would have no idea what was happening, with that much suck happening.
The front suspension is MacPherson strut, ie the original design not the often mistaken varients of it, where the anti roll bar locates the lower arm. The design has been around since the 40s, first production car to feature it was a British built ford. Not uncommon at all. When the compliance bushes wear out it plays havoc with everything.
Does the front have it too? I know the Yugo had it in the rear. So a commie shitbox from 1980 has more sophisticated rear suspension than a 1985 Civic lmao
After watching the videos on this car plus the Freeway and Citicar and the borderline factory build quality. Can I ask is how did they pass any tests which would allow them to be used on the roads? Are there any in the USA?
My guess would be that the car(s) that Wheego submitted for testing were done up to perfection, but then they used their normal level of non-care with the production cars.
Robert mentioned in his long review that Wheego got a waiver for some of the usual safety testing (though I have no idea on what grounds the NHTSA would have granted it). As for the others you mentioned, they weren't cars in the legal sense, precisely to avoid having to pass that sort of testing. The Citicar was a low-speed electric... thing... and the Freeway was technically a motorcycle, believe it or not.
@@legostar55 Well, it might not be a Low-Speed Vehicle, but it's definitely a low-speed vehicle. I mean, he got it up to what, 31 mph, and it sounded like the end of the universe. Legally, though, you're right, and that's the best kind of right to be. I concede I have no earthly idea how they got the Citicar past the NHTSA in that case. I can only assume bribery was involved. :)
It’s been a little while now since I’ve had my rollbar apart but I think those centring discs are normal though, but it’s not normal for them to do anything but keep the rollbar bushings centred. They’re not supposed to keep the whole suspension unit centred. I’d have to have a look though, I have a feeling I’m wrong here. Probably also worth knowing that my car is both rear wheel drive and has McPherson strut suspension.
That front suspension set up is similar to the VW Passat. Hockey puck is anti vibration and torque steering is likely caused by unequal length driveshafts and or worn anti role bar bushes.
@@jordanrudler2120 It's a bit of a stretch, the Y10 was based on the same chassis but had several improvements, which were later adopted by the 1986 restyled version of the Panda. The original Panda used very basic leaf springs at the back. Still 900, vs 700/800kg...that's still way lighter than the Wheego.
The rubber ring on the driveshaft is to prevent torque steer. That's why it's only on the longer one... (different length shafts cause the torque steer)
Looks genuinely home-made. Like badly home made at that, almost like someones quick and dirty electric car conversion project.
Well I mean it kinda was
Thing is most homemade EV conversions put the battery in the trunk, or even worse in the engine bay. How's that for crash safety? At least these guys bothered to put the battery where a real EV would. Would probably be better if they didn't though.
@Deon Denis yeah
That's reaaally safe🤪
@Deon Denis Yeah, that's why I said it's better if they didn't.
looks like they had few metal scraps laying around decided to weld on a budget ?
The rubber halfshaft disc was most likely a vibration dampener, and I would hazard a guess that it was only on one side due to the different lengths of the halfshafts. Keep up the great videos 👍👍
Yep my old Toyota Corolla had the same on the longer drive shaft, it's pretty common
My Insight had them too, and they have an unintended side effect: they trap moisture and salt. I know this because my Insights axle rusted out underneath one and snapped!
Rip it off! I think it was more important when the car ran on dinosaurs - But I doubt there is any benefit with lighting powered motor. Well, holding rusty, salty water against the axle. That's ONE benefit I suppose.
I agree. My Land Rover Discovery 1 has it to. I guess that’s one of the reasons why the Wheego and the Discovery share the same reliability!!!! 🤣🤣
@@LN997-i8x Hondas seem particularly prone to this, the 5th/6th Civics tend to snap driveshafts at the rubber damper.
Imagine how bad the first models were
you mean the first 100 models?
what a hack job ..these all one offs ?
@@zjanez2868 I'm guessing he's talking about the model prior to the life (the 25mph "we just need to make some money" model of which they sold 300 or however many it was)
Edit: I’m putting this here first because it’s critical. Zip tie those high voltage cables out of the way *now* - that’s not just a breakdown hazard but also a fire and electrocution hazard. Do this immediately.
I’d zip tie that throttle cable out of the way somewhere, or even suspend it with a load of zip ties forming a lattice pattern, because eventually that is going to rub through and leave you on the side of the road. I’ll try to stop commenting useless info but if there is anything else, not sure how well I’d keep that promise.
yeah do what Moon Moon suggests before it kills you as I want to watch more Aging Wheels videos and you have to live to make them
but seriously zip tie and electrical tape which will help add a wear barrier to the wires so they don't wear through the insulation which will result in electrical leaks causing fire or electrocution
Now what would be fun is a reverse electric conversion, take out the heavy battery pack and power it with a dachshund chasing a cat in a squirrel cage and wheego fast
I almost want to try to shoehorn a 460cid Ford big block into the cargo area of one of these things but, given how fuckulated the unibody is, I think the engine might just rip the car in half on startup.....
like the LS Tesla?
I wonder if Mike McQuary would be happy to let his kids drive this contraption at full whack down the freeway?
well um nope why do you think wheego life's aren't made anymore the ensure that by the time his kids grow up they can't get into a wheego life cause with the car being glued together it will not last that long
I was so much looking forward to this you could say the suspension was killing me. But seriously: that looks like a big mess indeed!
BMW, Chevy and Ford had the same set up the 90s
The Saturn S-Series from General Motors has same type of lower control arm and anti-sway bar setup. It's not super uncommon on small cars. When the bushings in the control arm itself wear out, you'll get a lot of forward and backwards play in the wheel.
Saturn owner here, I've driven an Sl since I was 16, I'm 21 now and I'm on my 6.5 SL. I hate the control arms, I go through wheel bearings every 10-20k depending on the quality of part.
@@CaptainLicorice i have a 1999 SW2, i seem to go through lower control arm bearings every 5-6 years. Mostly due to the boots failing and water getting in. had a '94 SL2 at 200k on the original wheel bearings. The lower control arms are really easy to replace.
came down here to say it looks just like my 1999 Saturn SW2 and my old 1994 SL2 (same car for all practical purposes)., but you beat me to it.
I had a 97 SC-2 back in highschool. The engine exploded in 2013, I still miss that thing.
My clutch just broke in my 96 Sl2. Unfortunately it still has that terrible A-frame and I have to do some stupid work just to replace it. Also the starter.
Hmm, hacksawing through several important looking structural beams to fit the batterie pack in would invalid the legality of this car in many l countries I think.
I wonder if they didn't crash test the Noble body shell before they modified it. That's purely speculation of course
@@agingwheels If they did crash test one, it would likely fit in the trash bag in your other video :) Wonderful car btw, in a way.
More like trash compactor, only Thing that might not get damaged in a crash is the battery pack :)
@@agingwheels Just remember. Safety is given a pass if you have enough trees on your dash display. ;)
@@agingwheels They might be doing something scummy to evade the need to even do crash testing. What I see under that car makes me think itt'l do worse in an IIHS crash test than my '85 F150 would.
Saturn's were known for the dual purpose torsion roll bar... That disc around axle was a "damper" to help with high-speed deflection. Almost any front wheel drive that didn't have equal length half shafts had them or a bearing that bolted to block for a extension shaft
The older 90s Saturn cars use that exact front suspension setup and when those swaybar bushings go bad it causes all kinds of steering problems .
I thinks it's more meant for RWD cars than FWD but I guess it works well enough and its probably cheaper
The basic versions of the Peugeot 205 had a similair setup (the faster xs,gti and diesels had a normal whisbone setup). So it's quite and old suspension setup from a design stand point
Also the solid rear axle. Not as unusual but stupid for a FWD car. The Yugo also had something similar to that bar instead of a wishbone, not sure about the front but it did in the back. Yes, it had 4 wheel independent suspension and used a transverse leafspring like a corvette. I have no idea why manufacturers didn't go to IRS/twistbeam earlier and the Wagon R (which the Noble was based on afaik) still has a solid axle and that came out in the 90s, the Honda Civic didn't get an IRS until the late 80s!
only the rear axle, and I'm pretty sure they have a torsion beam rear suspension so it's still quite different, front of 205's had wishbones up front.
That suspension arrangement is as described in the Patent application for the McPherson Strut and is in fact the only arrangement that should 100% accurately be described as a McPherson strut suspension. My Lotus Excel has the same lower link and ant-rollbar setup, but paired with an upper wishbone.
“If that happens I’ll just junk the car.....” No, no you won’t. You love that junky electric powered go-cart too much.🤔
Nah, wheego broken and he's about to drop the battery and trash the rest
The rubber hockey pucks are ostensibly there for vibration management, but from experience what they actually do is harbor and hide rust. A couple years ago, my 1999 Integra broke an axle when a stoplight turned green because the axle rusted away to roughly half the diameter of steel that was supposed to be there.
Of course I could not see that steel had vanished into oxide until I was stuck on the side of the road with a broken axel.
What would make for an interesting series is pulling the Wheego apart and making it as good as you can. Fix the rust, weld everything up properly, new bushings and try to improve the suspension. The interior could be a next step. I'd watch that. :D
Greetings from a fellow Trabant owner in the Netherlands. :)
p.s. I like the suggestion that has been done before to get the original car as well! :)
8:10
What happened to the fender?
You bought a new one.
And this one?
Cracked in the same place!
We want to know the history of the cracking fender! : D
Well spotted! I completely missed it... Mystery! Content for more videos! :D I want to see him put a sheet metal plate back there and rivet it on :P Going full circle lol...
Haha! I would die laughing if it turned out that a metal plate was installed on the production line. Stylish Chinese drift dress code. :D
This is easily one of the most underrated automotive channels on RUclips. Keep up the good work!!
common design front suspension on 70s and early 80s cars mostly European
I have never seen that on a front suspension. On the other hand, I have only worked Volvos, Mercedes, and the larger Citroen and Peugot from that era. Oh... and I have been around Land Rovers. None of the mentioned had anything like that front suspension in the 70's or 80's.
Yep, ford capri. Very old skool
Fiat Sold the Uno here u brazil from 1985 to 2014 and it has the same basic suspension desing.
I believe that the Chevrolet/Opel corsa b had something like that too
Ford euro used same style frontend.
Audi 100/200 (5000 in US) had that type od suspension. C4 generation of this Audi (after renaming to A6 in 1995) was produced to 1997. EU ford sierra had similar suspension too.
That suspension design was used on the first and second generation Ford Escort and the Ford Tempo. It's cheap and effective, the added compliance of the spring steel roll bar and all the bushings makes the ride considerably softer, though it also allows for more forward and backward movement than other designs. The rubber bit on the axle is a vibration damper, and that's really common. It's only on the long axle because that's the one that likely has a resonant frequency that is likely to be reached in normal use of this car. The damper either cancels out that resonance or changes the frequency to one that won't occur in normal use.
I absolutely love this kind of content. :-)
Přesně
VW Super Beetles (the ones with the McPherson Strut front suspension, not the standard torsion bars) use this exact setup with a single-point control arm and fore-aft location handled by the sway bar. I always thought it was a unique set up too. I never would have guessed a Wheego of all things shared this design.
That suspension is like lots of cars such as ford Capri, ford escort and other fords based on the same set up
This car is a master class in how NOT to design an EV.
... how not to design a car, not just an ev
Nah, the EV part was not so bad. The car part? Fuck it to high hell. At least 90% of the people watching could've built something better themselves.
@@jm036 It was a really big blunder for the Wheego people to chose some obscure Chinese car, in the ideal world they should of gone for a European/Japanese or Korean compact car that's not sold in the USA. Just imagine the electric parts installed in something like a Dacia Sandaro it's a dirt cheap car but built to a good standard since they just raid the Renault parts bin so don't have huge development overheads.
@@wetlettuce4768 you think anyone would give them stuff? lmao I mean I'm sure if they did it a few years earlier zastava wouldn't mind sending a few florida bodies over but I'm not sure how much better a 1988 Yugo would be compared to a modern smart knockoff. Well, the florida at least has a engine bay so maybe it would be safer. Also it had a torsion beam in the rear and not a solid axle so it would be more comfortable. But as for any actually decent car brands, I doubt it. Also who would want a sandero? They could take a logan instead, it's a sedan version of the sandero (well the sandero is a hatch version of the logan techinically)
@@jm036 Nah, the car part is bad. But the EV part is miserable! And I'm sure the car was not designed for this amount of weight. Normally it would be for 4 small Chinese people, like 4x 140lbs plus some for baggage, maybe 650lbs? But 2 grown-up Americans are already 400lbs, which leaves for motor and electronics 250lbs and all the batteries are overweight.
I've seen and driven properly neglected, rusted out, banged up and beaten on hoopties with less suspension play.
Very interesting videos. I have not thought that the underside of the car is as messy as the interior, but sadly I don tknow what is worse.
I am shocked how the insulation of the cables gets worn away.
Bending plastic and stuck eco mode buttons at least wont short out the battery.
Those bushings on halfshafts are for ballancing out vibrations caused by difference in lenght of pair of halfshafts.
So the middle of the floor is held together by a dozen or so tack welds ?
How this held together long enough to install the battery pack in the first place is a mystery, even bigger one is how driving this around hasn't lead to the entire battery pack falling out.
It has time to fall out (I would say that but at least 10 other things could fail before the battery falling out) intresing setup on antiroll bar (tracking must be fun as it be moving everytime you stop and go)
I would guess that the battery, being far stronger than the car, helps hold things together down there.
battery box is being used as a structural member...not well...but it is.
@@dr650dude I think the battery box is the best-built part of the car! It's what holds everything together!
Not an uncommon suspension design. The rubber donut is a vibration damper.
The rubber donut was added to prevent torque steer.
I don't think using the ARB as a strut rod is very common, though I could be wrong
@@MrAlp4228many cars in 80s & 90s were like that, pretty old and simple suspension "tech".
If you have your own welder, maybe you'll want to reinforce those strange areas you pointed out. Maybe rotating the high voltage shrouds will be a cheap temporary repair until you find some new shroud material.
Good idea for a future video project: Actually compare the undercarriage of a Shuan Chang Noble to the Wheego's as you suggested. I am now prepared for any and all Wheego trivia challenges that might (or might not) present themselves. For that, many thanks!
Based on the video of the toe in / toe out, i'd bet the lower control arm bearing is rotted out. The one on the wheel end of the lower control arm. You'll need a pry bar to wiggle it, because the sway bar will keep it mostly in place otherwise.
the body mounts for the swaybar are equally important!
The sway bar is being used as a brake rod. I had a Daihatsu that was made the same way. The rubbers on the sway bar are very important as the wheels can move forward or backwards when the rubbers start to fail. With your car I would try to either get new rubbers or pack up the ones that you have to make the connection tighter. Once done you might need a wheel alinement. Also note that on my Daihatsu the rubbers were different hardness depending if they were on the front side or the rear side.
I hope that this helps.
That front suspension setup used to be fairly common, more commonly they used a dedicated tension rod but a sway bar doing double duty was common as well.
Suspension is from Daewoo Tico / Matiz or Suzuki Alto or more others on that platform, search for it, maybe you can find cheaper or better parts
Never seen a sway bar double as a Thrust arm. Similar suspension setup is common on mostly European but it uses a separate arm for thrust movement. Also, that rubber disc on the CV shaft is there for vibration dampening.
My '87 camry uses the sway bar as a thrust arm but it's more solid.
The VW SuperBeetle (the McPhereson strut version, available 1971 through 1979) does it that way.
im a mechanic, those rubber blocks on the drive shaft serves to reduce or even remove any vibration caused by the driveshaft, its kinda like the dampener for suspension.
What do you call a WeeGo that belongs to someone else?
A Yugo
Groan... I've been guilty of pad puns and jokes, but man....
GROOOAAAANNNNN!!!!
Well played sir, well played.
He should buy one, it'd fit his style :)
@@highlypolishedturd7947 If it belongs to me it's an aygo.
Kinda makes me wanna see someone take a Yugo and do an electric conversion. Maybe call it an iGo
You drove a Yugo, that's where You'll find that kind of front suspension, but it's actually an Italian design from the 60's
The 2nd Generation Camry has the same front suspension set up. And Mercedes had a similar set up on the upper front suspension of their sedans in the 80s.
It’s an old fashioned design, but it works and gives a pretty smooth ride.
My Ford Sierra has a front suspension setup like this. In the US it was sold as the Merkur xr4ti.
I like how the CV axles bang up against the frame. That must help the stability under braking. :)
The Chrysler F/J/M body platform (Volare, Aspen, Diplomat, Mirada, some models of New Yorker, Cordoba, etc) did away with the strut-rod for front-end location and instead used the weird L-shaped torsion bars as dual-purpose strut-rods.
One of the auto enthusiast magazines a few years back took one of those and added proper strut rods and mounting points, and the handling was much improved. They even track-raced it with some success.
I hope your insurance company doesn’t see this video
After seeing all the hackery under that thing, I think I'd drop the battery pack out and see what's going on in there. High voltage DC currents make me nervous!
Thank you Robert to show us a rare example of what not to do if you convert an ICE car to electric. I didn't know that was possible such a great hack job. love this video and the extended review,Now I love my Nissan LEAF even more! Your video production quality is always great.
The rubber "puck" as you call it on the CV shaft is for balance. It helps to dampen vibrations on the long shaft.
My AE86 has 'foreward' control arms where your anti roll bar is. And it's remarkably adjustable. So its like they alllmost got the idea of how a suspension works and made it the cheapest way they could imagine.
The suspension dates back to the 1970s. It is a similar setup to my 1972 Triumph Dolomite. In fact, the Dolomite is a bit better in that it has tie bars at the front to sop front-to back movement and tie bars at the rear to stop side-to-side movement. If you're handy with a MIG, you should sort out the dodgy bodywork.
Front end of a VW super beetle is the same way... But no drive shafts up front... Those little rubber pucks are to help with balance and torque load between the two sides
I wonder if the terrible acceleration has something to do with that tow-in effect, someone noticed it was behaving erratically and did the typical thing today: Limited acceleration in software instead of fixing the actual issue mechanically :P
Land Rover did a very similar thing to Wheego's motor-gearbox shaft in the Defender with the link between the gearbox and transfer box.
Splined shaft with no lubrication, it frets, the splines disappear and you get left with no drive. The basic fix is to split the two and grease the coupling, there's a better way that adds some lubrication from the gearbox oil supply. But if I was you I'd be very keen to grease the Wheego's shaft before it's too late.
Apparently the Noble was based on a Suzuki Alto and yeah, that front suspension is the same weird setup. I don't know how the Wheego/noble passed any crash testing. (as reported by wikipedia, so you know it must be true.)
I’m not a big suspension guy yet, I don’t know much (although I would like to), but what I do know is that that front suspension setup is... very different. Basically every unibody car ever made this side of a quarter century ago uses McPherson coilover struts.
Triumph TR7 and TR8a had a similar arrangement with the anti roll bar giving lateral location. It works better than you'd expect.
Yep that front end is pretty standard stuff. All the Saturn S-series cars had it, older Civics used a similar setup, my Yugo is like that, even the old Mercedes w116, w126, and w123 is like that. Roll bar doubles as the strut rod
I've never really done metal fab work since making a crappy battery powered car in school (no, I wasn't employed by WheeGo!), and I could do better metal patching & welding than that, probably, if I had a working welder... :P
Uuuhhh... the *aluminum* battery pack is bolted to the *steel* body?
>_>
How else would you attach aluminum to steel?
@@TheHonestL1ar You don't. That's the whole point. They are dissimilar metals that do not play nice together. The aluminum will corrode away. Galavanic corrosion is a known issue that plagues certain cars.
@@madmanmapper I am a fabricator, I build trailers for a living. I understand the differences between metals. I also understand how galvanic corrosion occurs. As long as all the steel is painted/rust proofed, the aluminum would be fine, at least for a while(although, the steel is clearly not all rust proofed here). My point was, if the engineers decided the battery pack should be aluminum, how else are you going to attach it to the steel unibody of the car other than by bolting it on? There really is no good alternative. I understand it's not a perfect situation, but if the engineers decided that's how it'll be, the fabricator just had to go with it
@@TheHonestL1ar Well if you understand that, then why make the remark? You knew what I was trying to point out. It's not like I was blaming the fabricators... how would that even be their fault in the first place? The engineers decided on aluminum and they decided on bolts. It's a crap ass car from a crap ass company. Hell, Ford is notorious for using aluminum stuff bolted to steel frames, and guess what happens? It's simply the case that it's either a complete oversight on the engineers' part, or it's planned obsolescence. Not good either way.
There are a couple of solutions, though. Electrically isolating the aluminum, for one.
And not an attack on you personally, but all the trailers (of the RV variety) that I've seen - even the nice ones - have not had much thought given to longevity.
'Hand done, not in the Rolls Royce sense, more in the Chinese labor sense' LMAO
If you want to see an exciting combination of quirkiness and bodgery, you should consider picking up one of those Vietnamese 1960's "restored" Vespas from Craigslist. Look for one with lots of chrome, 2 tone candy paint, and 10" wheels. I have one and I love it. I had to rebuild everything in it, and it draws a crowd everywhere it goes.
The anti roll bar and bottom link has been used on many small European cars.
For the rubbing cables, use rubber hose from +- diameter 20 cut open and tyrap them on. Also check the complete wiring loom where you can get to it and do the same thing on issue locations. Im a forklift mechanic and broken wiring is almost a daily problem with all those new machines full of shit sensors and diodes.
Finally, some new "Aging Wheels" content! Props from Phoenix!
Congrats on 100k Subs!
A lot if not all of which you complain is good old Made in USA by Noble. The suspension at the front is not unusual, and the change of toe in is lack of service related.
The front lower arm system with the anti roll bar being dual purpose is quite common on small cars, for example the Suzuki Ignis has the same setup.
The front suspension set-up, a McPherson strut using the anti-roll bar as the fore-aft location member, is typical European construction of the '70s and '80s. It was even used on notably well-handling and riding cars like the AlfaSud.
Donate this vehicle to the IIHS for crash testing. I'm genuinely curious as to how deadly it really is.
I bet if you changed the sway bar frame mounts with some alloy blocks, or hard poly bushing it might handle a bit better..
How did that ever satisfy basic safety requirements? There is, essentially, *one bolt* holding on each front stub axle assembly, and not a very big bolt either!
Those washer stacks though 😩👌
To prevent further chafing of lines/wires/whatnot, get some 3/4 heater core line from the local parts store. Cut a piece about 3 inches long for each chafed spot, slashed lengthwise to sleeve over the wires, and secure with zip ties. It'll probably outlast the car.
The Audi S6 C4 has a similar suspension system on the front axle
On this type of suspension the bar that located the control arm fore and aft is called a strut rod. My Lincoln Continental has this setup. Usually it's separate from the sway bar, though my Saturn SL2 also uses the sway bar as a strut rod. I imagine it saves weight.
That bit of rubber is a harmonic balancer effectively. Longer shaft "winds up" at a different rate than the short one so they install a damper to mitigate it. Usually that's to prevent torque steer but on this car I think it's a waste of effort. Also functions as a vibration damper. Most real car manufacturers have gone away from the disc to a center shaft mounted to the body on one end and the trans output on the other. Thus the CV shafts have the joints located the same distance apart which equals the windup side-to-side, reducing torque steer.
The rubber bush is an anti-tramping bush, on the longer driveshafts the shafts flex and with movement transmitted between wheel and shaft in both directions you could harsh resonance which is basically the shaft acting like an excited guitar string, if nothing to alleviate it, it could tear the bearings out the hub or cause damage at the gearbox end or incur fatigue of the shaft itself in the middle flexing points and it also could be very noisy at the roadwheel making an annoying whining or thrumming sound. Some are fixed, some are able to move a bit either way to find the sweet spot, some cars here in the UK would fail an MOT if missing that rubber (Honda's used them quite early on) so it does serve a purpose.
Suzuki Swift 1983 to 1988 used the same front suspension system except the control arms were cast iron. The rubber puck on the cv shaft is a vibration damper.
The rubber donut on the halfshaft is a red-herring. With essentially no mass, no way it's a vibration-damper. It was probably slipped on to avoid having to recycle it. The rear lateral control arm seen at 7:10 is what's known commonly as a Panhard-rod, in fact a sort of kludge that works. Unbelievable QC down there!
I wouldn't worry about the rust.
The car will either burn to the ground or simply fall apart long before rust becomes an issue 😂
I believe the rubber doughnuts are for vibration dampening.
Oh boy, here Wheego again!
Regarding the front suspension; the thing with the anti-roll bar being a significant part of the suspension: check the European Ford Sierra and Ford Scorpio.
Put mildly, it's a rubbery feel to the steering, braking and accelleration…...
VW Super Beetle suspension is like that in the front, and I believe some other crappy European cars as well. A single washer keeping the wheel and hub assembly from ripping off and slamming into the fender under braking doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it? lol. Great videos by the way, love your style. One of the few youtubers I'm happy to endure ads for - hopefully they get you a few pennies a pop. Take care.
0:40 I own 1986 ford escort - same "bar" suspension here, anti roll bar plays as triangle as if it was wishbone. Same front suspension is at old Audi 100/A6 and many more old cars
Tfw you binge every video and now have to wait for new content
Somebody paid 36,000 dollars for this!
Also now I know if I see another wheego on the road to stay FAR away.
I'm not understanding the rear suspension setup. The bar with the bend in it is bolted to the body at both ends, what the hell is it actually doing., acting as some kind of stiffener? Also, it looks like the trackbar out of a Jeep Cherokee.
Wow. That's outstanding! That front suspension looks down right dangerous. I can't imagine what it feels like to brake hard while turning.
No wonder they don't have any stability control and why the abs doesn't work (well). These systems rely on sensors to calculate speed of the wheels, direction of steering, position of suspension... These sensors would have no idea what was happening, with that much suck happening.
The front suspension is MacPherson strut, ie the original design not the often mistaken varients of it, where the anti roll bar locates the lower arm. The design has been around since the 40s, first production car to feature it was a British built ford. Not uncommon at all. When the compliance bushes wear out it plays havoc with everything.
My Yugo has the same set up alot Fiats do and yes if that bushing goes bad on the sway the car will try to kill you ask me how I know
Does the front have it too? I know the Yugo had it in the rear. So a commie shitbox from 1980 has more sophisticated rear suspension than a 1985 Civic lmao
@@jm036 yes the front has it as well as rear
After watching the videos on this car plus the Freeway and Citicar and the borderline factory build quality. Can I ask is how did they pass any tests which would allow them to be used on the roads? Are there any in the USA?
My guess would be that the car(s) that Wheego submitted for testing were done up to perfection, but then they used their normal level of non-care with the production cars.
Robert mentioned in his long review that Wheego got a waiver for some of the usual safety testing (though I have no idea on what grounds the NHTSA would have granted it). As for the others you mentioned, they weren't cars in the legal sense, precisely to avoid having to pass that sort of testing. The Citicar was a low-speed electric... thing... and the Freeway was technically a motorcycle, believe it or not.
@@ZGryphon The Citicar wasn't a low speed vehicle. Robert even said so in his video.
@@legostar55 Well, it might not be a Low-Speed Vehicle, but it's definitely a low-speed vehicle. I mean, he got it up to what, 31 mph, and it sounded like the end of the universe.
Legally, though, you're right, and that's the best kind of right to be. I concede I have no earthly idea how they got the Citicar past the NHTSA in that case. I can only assume bribery was involved. :)
The front suspension on that car is the same setup as suzuki wagon 2 and ignis
It’s been a little while now since I’ve had my rollbar apart but I think those centring discs are normal though, but it’s not normal for them to do anything but keep the rollbar bushings centred. They’re not supposed to keep the whole suspension unit centred. I’d have to have a look though, I have a feeling I’m wrong here. Probably also worth knowing that my car is both rear wheel drive and has McPherson strut suspension.
Congrats on 100k, Captain Bob! Cheers!
That front suspension set up is similar to the VW Passat. Hockey puck is anti vibration and torque steering is likely caused by unequal length driveshafts and or worn anti role bar bushes.
My Merkur XRT4 (US) Ford Sierra (Europe) used this type of front suspension. Surprisingly the RS500 was unbeatable race car in its time.
The front suspension setup looks like the Peugeot 205 or the Fiat Panda up to 2003
except that the '90s Panda was like 0,7/0,8 tons only :D and the Wheego weights around 1,2 tons.
@@DeerKoden the Y10 share the same underpinning, weights around 900kg and have up to 100hp
@@jordanrudler2120 It's a bit of a stretch, the Y10 was based on the same chassis but had several improvements, which were later adopted by the 1986 restyled version of the Panda. The original Panda used very basic leaf springs at the back. Still 900, vs 700/800kg...that's still way lighter than the Wheego.
@@DeerKoden the improvement were only on the rear suspension the front stay the same
A Peugeot 205 has that kind of front suspension too.
205 has two mount points to the body though, even if the control arm isn't very wishbone shaped.
Great video yet again. I’ve seen better welds on a 15yo Nissan Almera sill just to get it through an MOT! The build quality is beyond shocking 😂
The rubber ring on the driveshaft is to prevent torque steer. That's why it's only on the longer one... (different length shafts cause the torque steer)