Shame is not just ridicule- verbal abuse - as it is being excluded, not given a voice, not listened to and essentially not welcomed in the family. That not welcomed means that I don’t have a right to be here. It is a message that extinguishes identity and hope.
Shame is a self identify that forms due to the things you mentioned. It is a core wound of "I am bad" vs I have made a bad choice, etc. It makes the person feel to their core, they aren't good enough, unworthy. Their whole sense of self comes from this wounded core. Unfortunately, when this isn't held for oneself is that a person cannot heal. It hurts. However, it is essential to bring compassion. It's very hard, because shame doesn't want to be seen. The avoidance of shame creates self sabotaging behaviors, that unfortunately perpetuate the shame core wound. To be able to tend to, look at, shame, it can be excruciatingly painful to witness...it can feel like a double bind. Why would we want to look at, sit with, such a depth of shame, we want to get away. However, the only way healing can happen, is to hold the shame wound, for our inner child. We have to show up, as no one else has before.
I’m sorry- it’s a horrible feeling. My brother and his wife and kids all have their birthday within a few weeks of each other. I went round to his house and put a huge pile of presents on his kitchen table, and looked up to see a Happy Birthday banner to their joint party that I hadn’t been invited to. I felt like such a chump.
Well said! I felt all of this. When I was describing to my therapist how I learned how to eat, drink, walk, and breathe silently, she said, “It sounds like you weren’t allowed to exist.” Dang. That’s definitely how it felt, and some part of me still carries that around.
THis is so right on. Exactly. THe problem is fully allowing oneself to go back into that space even though (and at the same time) we walk around half realizing we are in that state. There is a lot of repression involved and sometimes often there is a block to accessing the whole of it.
@@evakatz6351I’m so sorry- also keep in mind , no telling what the nature of that “party “ was - either way, you have nothing to be ashamed of, you are good kind and so generous- don’t let that go bc of hurtful even if neglectful humans
I just went through hell over the holiday it is my oldest sibling and all of the family members go along with it. I am so mad about what happened I feel mad at them, mad at myself humiliated, I hate it, I hate me, I want to just die.
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. I'm very sorry to hear about what's going on for you and thank you for sharing. If you believe you're in crisis, a medical professional needs to know what's happening and advise you and/or provide treatment. If you don't get the support you need there, please contact your primary physician. As a final step, if you get no support from your doctors, go to the ER if you are finding that things are at a crisis level for you. The key to improving nervous system regulation is to have at least one resource of support for settling. And to practice it and notice how it feels to have your system - your thinking, your emotional feelings and your body sensations..... settle and calm. You will be more present as you experience this; more connected to everyday reality and less desperate. Please also see our resource for In Crisis support and intervention. irenelyon.com/in-crisis/ Additionally, if you feel inclined to support yourself and work on your nervous system, I recommend Irene's free resources over here: irenelyon.com/free-resources/ Please feel free to reach out to our support inbox if you have any questions
Hello Jennifer. Bailey here from Team Lyon. Irene is currently working on a beta program that will teach and certify facilitators in this specific type of work. You can learn more about the program here: irenelyon.com/scientuitive-beta-registration. Hope this helps! :)
@@starlight4036 Otto F. Kernberg suggested that narcissistic disorders of character are foundation of most mental health problems. If we understand disturbances in narcissism we would probably find a theory of everything YT Richard Grannon & Prof. Sam Vaknin about Fantasy
@@mapsdot9223 In the macho football world you never want to act weak or look weak. So whenever I would feel fear I would be very shaming of it, “Get out of here”. After college it would all caught up to me and I would have all kinds of panic and anxiety. It works for a while but you just create more exiles. Relate to these parts like a good captain or loving parent. “It's ok to be scared and I still love you.” 🟥 IFS & Tanya: Dr. Richard Schwartz & Rabbi YY Jacobson
Wow. I recently had my first orgasm and I felt a huge burst of emotional pain come out of my heart. I’ve never given birth but that’s what it felt like physically. Like a birthing of demons
I never forgot the shock I felt when my mum looked at me with contempt and said to her friend, right infront of me, that my eyes had no soul just like my Dad. I was more shocked at the fact that she looked at me snd spoke of me as if I was not a person snd I was not present. I never forgot the coldness that ran through my being. I understood over the years why my Dad had such problems and also why I feel so dehumanised and not worthy of being alive.
@@ketherwhale6126 Perhaps. But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She likely embodies those, or at least a few, characteristics in which she hates about her mum. Likely without knowing.
@@manher4335 Yes, that’s the tricky part in all of this……seeing how we have some of these similar types of behaviors. It’s shadow work-searching for what about ourselves is hidden from view so we can heal on a deep deep level. There’s nothing like the healing of shame that comes from pulling out our own ways of dysfunction and looking straight at them. And then the deep healing comes. Unfortunately, many people get stuck in the blame game and do not progress past that.
Every time I watch your videos, I get soooo tired and want to take a nap. I mean that as a compliment on behalf of my nervous system 😂 it's so relieving to feel seen and heard and validated by you.
I dedicated time to healing about 5 years ago at 18 years old - in the last month I have realized the root of so many other symptoms: anxiety and depression cycle, ocd, pain, jaw pain, muscle tension, bad posture, isolation was toxic shame - I have been avoiding shame my whole life - once I found a healthy way to face it everything change I’m so serious. stay open to the idea that you are at your core just like every other person. the shaming in your head isn’t you and has nothing to do with you. The feelings that come up have nothing to do with you. This is toxic shame. Nothing more nothing less. I feel like so much of chronic pain, depression, anxiety, BPD, NPD have to do it with shame. Let it out in the light stay present and connected to your body while feeling it and observe don’t absorb the hateful thoughts towards yourself.
I have known I have shame for a very long time and yet I’ve never healed it. I don’t know how you did it?? I know I have shame and I feel it every day but nothing changes?
Hi all! Here is the main video that helped me manage / handle shame attacks or the overwhelming feelings that come with it: "Self Compassion: An Antidote For Shame" by Christopher Germer I want to add: I haven't gotten rid of shame, but rather changed my relationship to it and am guiding my body to get used to this safer, new relationship with it. That said, with this new relationship, I tend to slowly feel shame less often and less intensely, but when I first started, it hit me really hard. So don't beat yourself up if things get worse before they get better. ⚫️ For posture I do slow workouts that don't increase cortisol: pilates, slow controlled neck/shoulder movements and walks outside. I take a walk outside everyday. I highly recommended walking outside as much as possible. Nature offers an external peace when the internal is chaos. ⚫️ MY OWN PERSONAL TIPS BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE: - form a set of values about humans: all humans deserve food, community, love, shelter, and to be held accountable with self compassion. These are a few of mine. Now that you have them, use these values to guide your actions. If the feeling of shame comes up and symptoms of it like physical pain, ruminating, dissociating occurr. Name the feeling. Do the activity then act only in your values. Know that logically you are not the exception like that logically makes no sense for you to be the one human exempt from said values. It's tough, but you all got it.
I've watched a lot of Irene's videos but this one just made everything click; made my whole life make sense - the 20 years of chronic fatigue syndrome, the shutting down, the trying not to have needs, becoming more and more introverted and isolated, not speaking up for myself, not standing up for myself, not speaking my truth. I feel like watching this video was the moment my true healing could really begin. Like, I've been on a healing journey for 20 years and it starts now.
Hey GoldandPinkLight, Seth here with Team Lyon. That's so awesome!! Really great to hear :) If you would like support in what next steps to take on that journey, this page might be useful... irenelyon.com/new-here
20 years of chronic fatigue syndrom? I'm so sorry to hear that! I wish you full and complete healing from every physical and psychological and a mix there of issue.
I can SOO RELATE!! Been on the Journey for 57 years! And my Journey starts Now. And now... And NOW!! Disgust = The thing my mother did that sticks with me the most. She'd say my name in such a way I almost committed suicide over not being able to get that voice out of my head. Such Disgust. This is intense!
Sometimes it’s over correction. High expectations, impatience and perfection expected by the parent that is chronic. Dismissive ness, down playing problems, not listening and lack of support in a sensitive way. This adds up over time, as the kid feels no good and becomes invisible. In order to cope the kid “ disappears”. She didn’t actually come out and call names and constantly admonish. There was a lot of disappointment and over correction and accusations of doing something or saying it the way it was definitely not intended - causing self questioning and self doubt to the point of gaslighting and shame about the self. She was projecting what she does or did on to me. I constantly questioned how I came across- was I really those things? It’s very insidious.
@@pamelamccarthy1412that's a trauma driven wish. That's an inner child crying out. Humans want to be seen/known/understood/accepted. This is what love is Think of a wish that can reach beyond the trauma wish. Otherwise, if your trauma is running the show, your wishes included...the power is given to your trauma, and those who hurt you. You hurt yourself, by living those ways do thinking out. When you can heal beyond that, it's powerful.
My Father told me hundreds of times (with contempt) as a small child "You're so full of shit your eyes are brown!" My Mother's emotional abuse and neglect were more insidious..."You're too sensitive!" 'You're so dramatic!" in response to my normal need for emotional support or my reasonable reactions to the abuse/neglect. Neither parent was abused in childhood. And, even if they were, it doesn't justify their actions. I WAS abused and it made me MORE sensitive to others, ESPECIALLY children.
Oh wow! My dad would so often tell me "you're so full of shit" whenever I had a different opinion or was basically doing anything he didn't agree with. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Sometimes I wonder if my chronic constipation has anything to do with it, as odd as that might sound.
@@erinm3567 I wouldn't doubt it Erin. They say the subconscious mind (thus, the body) takes things quite literally. I had an Aha! moment in the car the day after writing this. My Father was a character much like Alex Murdaugh and he knew I saw through him from a very young age. He was "full of shit" at every turn and basically projecting/confessing to his very young daughter. My Mom was like Maggie Murdaugh - loved $$$, status and image. My Dad almost killed us all when I was nine and all that proverbial shit hit the fan. Luckily, he collapsed before going through with it. (I messed up his plan by wrangling away and going for help.). Watching the Murdaughs has brought so much to the surface lately. God bless us all 🙏✝️❤️
me too I've been getting the 'you're too sensitive' treatment from my mother for as long as I can remember. often told off for crying, and often asked if I was made out of crystal (nothing could be said or done to me without breaking me).
@@thanksagainforthetea Great analysis and explains why when I tried to achieve a closer bond with my Mother in healthy ways she would deny me that and say "Well, MY Mother never..." I would "shutty-shutty" (as Lisa A. Romano puts it) because there was no need to try to reason with her, like..."That sounds quite painful, wouldn't you like for us to have things better than that?" It all falls on intentionally deaf ears. Mommy Dearest always knows best! And, that's the point!! Forget doing what's right, what's best, what makes more sense - and you can MOST definitelly forget what brings more joy!!!
My parents mocked and ridiculed us all the time. We were told we were ‘too soft’ if we got upset. It was soo pervasive I thought it was normal until I started to notice that my friends parents didn’t seem to behave that way, they didn’t seem to treat their kids with contempt. I’m in my 40s now with two young children and am determined i don’t pass this toxic shame into them. Thankyou for this video. I cried ( I do this a lot lately) it’s such a relief to realise I’m not crazy or weak or stupid. Bless you x
I can hear my mother’s, father’s, and brother’s words ‘that’s disgusting’. Said some many times and still said. I’ve had to go ‘no contact’ in order to break free from their energy and heal on a deeper level. Thank you for the amazing work and teaching you do, Irene. It has helped me greatly. ❤
The "bad meat" thing reminds of being told "You're so spoiled" when I acted out, or when I was given something/treated nice. It was used to either communicate that my needs were not valid, or that I was not deserving of receiving good things.
wow "not deserving to receive nice things." this resonated with me deeply as I experienced very similar things and now I can clearly see how it is correlated to my relationship with money. thank you for sharing!
I love “remember what I did for you” and it’s ONE thing they did for you over 20 years ago. Normal things like hosting a baby shower for you. The scoreboard comes out.The guilting never stops.
@@KM-nd6wjsadly I found myself guilting out my daughter. I have no idea where to bring to heal that relationship. I thought I was a protective and loving mother. I have since found out that I was not good enough in many ways. Best of luck
This one strikes a chord for me. I was my mothers target "who do you think you are? what makes you think you're so special? Its all your fault". The affect, the impact has been lifelong. Powerful image, the rotten meat. Thank you for the work you do to help us heal our wounds.
My problem now is dealing with all the suffering I caused myself due to this. Inappropriate behaviors like being easy to sleep with, eating junk food, smoking pot and cigarettes etc... I destroyed my body
Hi Dana, Seth here with Team Lyon. Yes, the behaviors resulting from toxic shame can take a toll for sure, I am familiar with that myself. Thankfully, the human body is very resilient and can recover from a lot when it has the right support! If you feel this work, along with any lifestyle and dietary changes could be helpful, it could be useful to check out Irene's free resources and online programs... irenelyon.com/new-here/
No matter what you have done to tear your body down I promise you can start building it back up. Whatever you did in the past doesn't matter anymore. The only thing that matters is TODAY🥰 ( I used meth and heroin for 30 yrs)
This can definitely happen in school. I was the only person of colour in my school and in my whole town. I was shamed, abused and attacked because I was brown, for a decade. I felt like an alien. They told me I was disgusting and dirty. I was spat at, beaten, stabbed and there was no justice. The teachers didn't care. My parents didn't believe me. Eventually as a child I concluded that I must deserve it and this was the way of the world.
Hi Jenova, Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm so sorry to hear you had to live through that. Thanks for sharing your story here. If you feel that this work may be able to help you in some way, I recommend checking out our New Here page and downloading the Field Guide there. irenelyon.com/new-here/
How you were treated was so unacceptable. I was bullied as well, but as a pasty white kid, they found other things to hate about me. I was ugly, flat chested, a whore (5th grade whore? really?). I got kicked in the shins, punched in the head and tummy. I never told anyone. I am just now coming to terms with these painful memories at the age of 50. I wish we would include how to appreciate each others differences in kindergarten, it should be part of the curriculum. All colors and all income level children should be safe at school from each other and from teachers. You never deserved any of this.
@@smegmatic308 They probably experienced the same amount of hate or even worse and we’re so traumatized and overwhelmed by their own struggles that they diminished and neglected their children’s cries for help because they can’t even protect themselves let alone their children. That’s a tough pill to swallow as a parent. Not feeling able to protect your child, so you can’t guide your child, which is your role as a parent. Very easy for emotionally unintelligent parents dealing with that environment to crack under pressure & neglect their kids or use them as emotional or physical punching bags. Same way generations can be victim to narcissistic abuse and commit that same abuse/neglect to the next generation. Racial trauma can and is passed down through internalized racism/ neglect of guidance through racist experiences. Hope this helped🫶🏽
When we feel disgust towards someone it is important to allow ourselves to feel it, realise the feeling is there because it is letting us know not to trust this person. As a child that is terrifying as we have no control over the situation, as an adult we can choose to step out of the relationship or go low contact to create space to work on healing from our past and focus on becoming our future self.
This explains why I sometimes find myself struggling not to vomit--literally dry-heaving--after feeling a wave of intense of emotion or after recalling certain memories. Shame.
Thank you for describing shame as a physiological response and sensation.. another piece on supporting my inner child and my adult self. Furthermore, I have always felt my mental state is directly contributing to my fascia, connective tissue, and joint inflammation and pain and sluggish liver. Now that I’m regaining rebalancing releasing and healing my health naturally comes along with it. Asking myself daily: “I give permission to deeply and completely love and accept all of myself.” “I give myself permission to release all energy that is not mine.” “I recall and reclaim all of my energy.”
To anyone struggling with your toxic shame on the other side is a life so rich and amazing that I can't believe it exists. struggling with the memories and pain of humiliation and being attacked is psychological torture. but on the other side is a life that is so rich and fulfilling that it's all worth it. Keep going!!!!!! It's not your fault. you are just born here. return it back to the universe... return to sender.
I was diagnosed with arthritis at age 15. I had been in pain for 2 years before getting medical care & my parents had insurance. When ever I was sick dad (raging alcoholic)always thought I were faking it. Even when the school nurse sent a note home to have my vision checked I had to wait a year for glasses as dad thought I was just "trying to get attention " & threatened to "beat the shit" out of you if the eye doctor found nothing wrong. I'm 64 now and have been unable to work, due to arthritis since I was 39. My mom was an anxious & timid person. Later turned out to be a massive hoarder. Dad controlled the family with fear & mom did it with shame. I grew up not being allowed to express emotions. I've always curious if the arthritis was connected to the toxic environment I was raised in.
Linda Tshappat, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'm really sorry to hear that you weren't heard and supported when you were in pain as a kid. Your question about the connection between your arthritis and the toxic environment is an interesting one. We do find that we can tend to hold a lot to it in the bones when we have early trauma (if you think of an infant in utero and after birth they don't have much other tissue), so it sure sounds like a possibility. It's great that you found your way here, and are learning about this work as it can benefit us at any age.
I been studying psychology since the day I figured out there's something wrong and that I have been grown up in an abusive household. I have read tons of articles on toxic shame and watched hours of content but the way you helped me understand it, nobody has drawn my attention that way before. What you're doing and seriously revolutionary in the medicine especially in the area of trauma.
@@thunderpooch That's true. My comment did not mean to attempt to make those people feel shame because, you're right, they can't. We can only make OURSELVES feel less of the shame they put upon us by diverting it back to them, but only IN OUR OWN MIND/HEART.
I kind of feel like they gave me a permanent emotional disability for life and all these youtube videos and therapy sessions are just giving me false hope. Like imagine how cruel it would be to tell a paraplegic they will walk again if they just think enough positive thoughts. The narcissists took something from me that I will never get back. That doesn't just go away or fade with time or healing. It's just gone. Imagine how cruel it would be to tell a child who lost their leg in an accident that with enough self love and self care their leg will grow back good as new and stronger than ever. Imagine how terrible that child would feel thinking they're not doing a good enough job when they never grow their leg back no matter how hard they devote themselves rigorously to all the false hope recommendations of self care journey stuff. Every day they wake up feeling like a failure seeing the same painful leg stump. Instead of doing the kinder thing helping the child face the reality that he will never feel whole again like the other kids because that is the reality but no one wants to be burdened with the task of helping him face the truth that he is just not going to have the same kind of life as others. That's how I feel watching narcissistic abuse recovery videos and going to therapy. There is no getting better. There is no feeling better. Don't you guys get it yet? This is it right here. Like there is no upside to this. Stop trying to make this some sort of spiritual enlightenment path to nirvana. We are glorifying the process of being abused as if it's something that will lead to some sort of ultimate karmic retribution by liviour best life and forgiving the unforgivable "for ourselves not for them"🙄and all that same nonsense. There IS NO KARMIC RETRIBUTION! DON'T YOU GET IT YET? THEY WON. Take the L!!! We got screwed over big time and they did outsmart us. Come on already people stop with the empath labels like we're some sort of mystical beings on some magical Hero's Journey that are special enough to be abused for so long and remain ever compassionate and loving. Narcissists are scammers, WE FELL FOR IT, END OF STORY. There's nothing special in us that the narcissist saw. They saw us like a pawn shop owner would see a new object to trade and sell like a commodity. They could care less about our empathy. Ugh. The universe doesn't give a sh*t about your empathy and how many times we get conned by psychopaths that appeal to our egos. There's no cosmic reward for your codependent martyrdom. You can stay or leave, live or die an untimely tragic death, be empathetic or apathetic, loving or hateful, either way it does not affect the narcissist or make them sad or sorry for hurting you. There's no timer that goes off at 30 years of abuse where the universe is like, "Sherry, eh, you know what she's put up with a lot of crap for long enough, let's reward her modest humble approach to life getting beaten down by the narcissists we placed in her path to test her character and integrity by seeing how she reacted to getting betrayed by everyone we set her up in advance to be lead to believe she was supposed to be able to trust! Guess what Sherry you passed! Here's your reward and now everything will finally be okay! Um no that's not reality😐.
Yeah some people are just control freaks who want that over you. No one knows what they're doing, so when you do the *wrong* thing it's under a microscope. It's gross, but their obsession is not your responsibility, our responsibility is to "do the work" so we don't feel like we'll ever be compelled to let our actions define us or harm others.
@@PassionateFlower - You know, I was just wondering the same thing the other day. Unraveling the effects of toxic shame might be lifelong. If I may share my story a bit here with you: When many years ago I found some trustworthy people who were more mature overall I decided to entrust them with some of the dirty laundry ( toxic shame ) I endured. Their compassion, empathy, prayer, hugs, counsel were profoundly helpful and hopeful. Some therapy helped. Conscious decisions to begin to not tolerate disrespect helped. Reading "Boundaries" ( Cloud/Townsend) was life-transforming. Holding myself accountable in any way / shape / form "I" was using any bitterness to mentally "get back at" my past enemies was also powerfully helpful and freeing. Hope my story helps encourage you. I get where you're coming from and believe there is progress and healing to be had, though it can take longer than our quick-fix culture allows. Peace and Grace to you.
I wasn't ridiculed, I was never told I was rotten but I was told I was paranoid, emotional and sensitive for decades, like it was FACT. I had to accept it or there was a big row I could never win (to deflect away from my parents inability to allow any emotion) and when I challenged that I was called angry, insane, entitled............ to shield them from their defensiveness and their total aversion to reciprocal communication. They have been giving me the silent treatment now for nearly three years. So yeh, the first time I EVER stood firm in my own interpretation of events, I was just written out. I don't feel shame, I feel sad I think, depressed about the situation but not depressed in myself. I will never be allowed back in to the family again unless I play the part of dead meat again. I stumbled my way through this work, I wondered if I'd smell dead rat forever, I was just listening to books about shame on audible and listening to books about healing from trauma and self-compassion.
Thanks for sharing your struggles. Gabor mate has also lot of useful stuff on childhood trauma and behavior. It's a super tough journey and can be lonely. I just started diving deep and can see from early age I developed an anxious avoidant attachment style to survive plus other strategies. So I did't fully trust anybody the last 45 years, was in an alert state and has developed a chronic illness. Much work to do , I hope you find the help and support you need🙏
You do not need to try to get back into that family. They are absolutely nuts. You need to run and STAY as far away as you can. Find genuine people to can see who and what you really are. But most importantly, make sure YOU can see who and what you really are!! You don't have to be a perfect person and even in all the good and bad you are worthy!
Lots of toxic shame here so watching this explains the connection with dry heaving as this comes up for me, pardon the pun! I'm experiencing more shaming from others so this video could help me notice and be more present when it happens and maybe the feelings and emotions that usually arise could also join this moment and just be with it instead of taking over or being pushed down, the message within could have its voice in a more spacious and present way. Who knows what'll follow! I love this stuff, makes me feel connection 🙏🌱🎆🦉🕊
Thank you for your work on toxic shame, and the immeasurable impact it has on a healthy life. I have just recently become aware of the impact of contempt in early years, as it came up and literally wiped me out during a visit with my sons family this year. It brought me right into that small devastated little person, ganged up on and shamed. It is the most devastating emotion or experience I've ever experienced. I literally wanted to do anything to get out of that place, and can see why addictions happen for people. Grateful I had studied and commited myself so much to my healing process that I could make it through to the other side. Toxic shame indeed is a somatically held, physiologically painful experience.
My precious grandmother wrote me today that she doesn't have as much energy these days as she used to. I broke down when I read it and came to a crashing crushing realization that it is shame that has kept me from being around the past year as much as I wanted to be present with her at the time. I am right now trying my best not to regret the time with her I have already lost and just keep moving forward and making that change. I hope and pray it can be enough. I love her more than anything forever and all I can do from now until always is show her that love. I am so sorry.
Regognisable.. I was eventually able to sincerely look at myself with compassion and accept the situation as well as my part in it. Life isn't perfect and neither are we.. I hope you can find the same compassion and acceptance 🍀
Jessica Stephens, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'll link to a video where Irene and Seth Lyon, her husband and colleague, talk about healthy shame, and also to a few parenting related videos. They are more about regulated (and dysregulated) parenting than gentle parenting, and you there are some connections. Understanding the difference between healthy shame & toxic shame with Seth Lyon - irenelyon.com/2021/10/31/healthy-shame-toxic-shame-with-seth-lyon/ Why parental nervous system regulation is essential for anxious kids - ruclips.net/video/BSCx9N-cNC8/видео.html How to help anxious kids who are behaving "badly" - w/ Stephen Terrell || Irene Lyon - ruclips.net/video/UgBnfLE1asY/видео.html The Ill Effects of Dysregulated Parenting - irenelyon.com/2022/10/23/the-ill-effects-of-dysregulated-parenting/
Right there in front of my eyes my mom literally talked about me to her friend using the word "Disgusting!!" (just imaging the dramatic tone in her voice..!) and pointing at me 😂 oh crap, im glad i was kinda psychologically advanced as a kid, it probably saved me i was able to see that she was just sick and out of any balance. But truth is of course it still hurts 😛
Yes, I often see people talk about how people doubt themselves when treated like this, but I've never had this problem. I was always strong in my conviction that I was not inferior. But that does not in the slightest decrease the mental anguish caused by being treated as if you were
Thank you for this video! I was recently diagnosed with ADHD (the inattentive type or what was called ADD before) at 46 years old. When you talked about being in intense emotions I felt that this is where I am when I am engaged, I'm often completely still (disengaged) of fully engaged with intense emotion. It's hard to be "mediocre" in the correct sense of the word. I'm either completely scattered and all over the place not paying attention to the person in front of me or I'm hyper focused on them. Both seems to lead me to feel this toxic shame because either I feel like I didn't give enough attention to them as I walk away OR I make them feel slightly uncomfortable if I give them too much attention and that makes me feel embarrassed so I try to avoid it. It's really tough because I personally do love to give attention and exchange intense emotion but it seems most people don't and shame me for it. Make sense?
Hi, Irene. I absolutely love your info and the videos you create. This one, in particular, really drew me in. I worked as one of the psychotherapists for almost 6 years with the John Bradshaw center for Co-dependency. As you may know, his primary focus for therapeutic change was his unique approach and understanding of the term he coined as "toxic shame". We were trained to assist our patients to heal and recover from the childhood trauma they suffered, anchored in their emotional and somatic experiences of toxic shame. I love that you differentiate between healthy and toxic shame. This is extremely important to clarify. Through coming to understand the categories of emotions, we simplified our work and utilized various modalities of treatment to accomplish that necessary recovery. I hope you, and others, begin to understand that disgust is part of the spectrum of shame, as is shyness, humiliation, or embarrassment. It is not, of itself, a primary emotion. As many of our linguistic labels ignore, some of the terms we use, that suggest a single, discrete emotional experience, is really a combined, multifaceted feeling. Again, thank you for your hard work and deep understanding. You are providing an essential understanding that facilitates recovery for us all.
Hi zenman52, Jen here from Team Lyon. It sounds like you have a lot of experience learning about and working with shame, and toxic shame. I want to differentiate here in the nervous system work we view many experiences through the lends of physiologic response, and less so through the lends of primary and secondary emotion. Looking through the lends of physiology, we do find that disgust is it's own response, separate and distinct from shame (both healthy and toxic).
I don't think I get it. From what I understood: 1: understand the difference between healthy shame and toxic shame; 2: understand what triggers feelings of toxic shame; 3: be willing to explore and sit with feelings of toxic shame when they come up. Then what? What 'heals' toxic shame? How do we get to a point where we don't feel a deep sense of disgust and loathing for our own selves? I've been told 'just sit with it' a hundred times by therapists. Yes: I'm sitting with it. I genuinely hate myself. Every day. How does that make anything better?
Hi Susanna, I've just started this kind of work, but I think the idea is more to be able to feel it physically in your body. Be able to feel where it is and move in and out of it, realise its just an emotion and not a threat or trigger, reason to hate or dislike yourself in any way. I had lots of therapy but it didn't really work until I did Somatic Experiencing/movement which is more about uprooting these deeply held feelings and beliefs from your body. Emotions don't need to be healed as such, but felt and processed even though they are toxic (so not based on anything real but more to do with the person who made you feel that way). When you do the SE work you come to see it more like old toxic stress that was trapped in your body, and that definitely can be released.
"Disgust is the gateway emotion for working with shame. Shame is not an emotion, it's a quality, a physicality, whole body and visceral. It doesn't have emotional tone." Very interesting, but I don't really understand it. I always thought that emotions were felt in the body, what's exactly the difference with shame? Is this covered in one of your other videos? Great video, very inspiring, I can start working with this. Thank you so much!!
Hi Flawesome Synefin. Seth here with Team Lyon. This can be confusing because when we are holding unresolved toxic shame in our system, this can produce lots of emotions, like sadness, jealousy, even self-hatred. However, when we are in contact with that toxic shame directly, it is much more of a raw, visceral cluster of sensations. It's kinda the same as the fact that being punched in the gut is not an emotion - we may have emotions about being punched in the gut, but the impact into the viscera itself, even though it is felt in the body, is not really an emotion.
I remember the first time I felt "ashamed of my shame." I'd done something bad and my father was so angry with me. I was literally cowering in fear and I'll never forget the look of disgust that came over his face. He said, "I can't stand to look at you." I think I'm just now realizing the impact of that event. I now believe he suffered with toxic shame as well and didn't know any other way at that time in his life.
What happens when you let yourself sit in feelings of toxic shame and disgust? I understand the importance of not suppressing the feelings but when you let them come to the surface and feel their full magnitude - what happens then? You say then you can "work" with them but what does that mean? Does full feeling help resolve them naturally or does some kind of process need to occur? I've found a lot of healing through letting myself fully feel other difficult emotions like grief- sadness heartbreak but other ones like shame, fear and disgust I find difficult to fully engage with because I have a fear that by really engaging with these feelings that instead of relief I'll just reinforce them more, so whenever I come head to head with these feelings during introspective practices I tend to cut off the experience and try to distract. Hope that makes sense.
From a personal perspective (I'm not a therapist) I would suggest that it depends on your need of external support, validation, guidance, etc, during that process of feeling your feelings. That could be in the form of a therapist. Personally, I would have a hard time sitting in such feelings, without that checkpoint (a therapist, or someone who can offer validation and trust) to return to. And so, I would not succeed with regulating/addressing those feelings.
The point is to seek insight into the emotions. It would help to know what shame is. Scholastics defined it as "the fear of being perceived lowly". It does not help healing to say to oneself "I was made to feel like I was not as good as the others and now I keep feeling it on and on", but it does help to understand that it was the message all along and to realize, literally and logically, that it was unfair and untrue. It will then change into a mixture of other emotions.
what does it mean when i feel disgust around so (who was close to me)? am i projecting? were my boundaries violated/not clear? am i feeling the other persons toxic shame? last time i felt this was around my best friend at the time who told me he might be in love with me but wasn't sure and i tried to ignore it until i couldn't. i was scared he would cross my boundaries bc i did not want more than friendship.... and now i know that these kinds of friendships are not healthy for anyone.
You are not alone. I've been in very similar situations; I've found it's best to peacefully end the friendship and cherish the memories, not the ending. To remain close friends would be extremely unhealthy for both parties.
Carina Scherer, Jen here from Team Lyon. You might have felt this way for a number of reasons. Generally speaking, disgust is telling us "this doesn't sit right with me". So something about your interaction with your friend didn't sit right with something in you. It might have reminded you of a time in the past, the thought of a romantic relationship with him may have disgusted you, or something about the way he approached the conversation might have touched into some disgust (to give you a few examples). If you're interested, you might see what happens inside as you ask yourself, what didn't sit right with me about this interaction?
When I was 14, we were moving to a house directly across the street from a grocery store. I said excitedly that maybe I could get a job there when I turned 16. My dad looked at me with a mocking look on his face that I could never be able to do that. The memory of his face is etched in my mind still at 58. It makes me feel sick. I internalized that and never thought again of that job I could get. My mental health was down the toilet. I still feel shame about my panic attacks I had back then.
Hi Bonnie, Seth here with Team Lyon. Sorry to hear that! Yes, those imprints can last for so long and affect us so deeply. The good news - we can heal! This work can help. If you feel drawn to exploring it I recommend starting here... irenelyon.com/new-here/
My panic attacks are when men question my existence one dude in motorcycle class got upset I wasn't younger and had kids like I was all kinds of f up it was so anxiety inducing I couldn't do a thing except want too fight dude the whole x wasted alot of money cuz dude kept telling me too grow up like mf I'm grown and it just every time I'd say do anything it was mocking me no job no school just empty he'd say like this loser ...me and I was like dude I'm just wanting too ride it was pathetic dropping the bike flipping the bike almost just f that class I aced my other class people are well people I hope that dude gets road rash for ego points cuz I'm immature.
I'm tainted meat all right...way past my best-by date. 50+ years with ASD means that whatever anyone disapproves of in you, there's probably a very real reason. You give everyone but yourself the benefit of the doubt. Shaming becomes a natural, real-world activity. Others are just telling you how reality is. It's toxic only to YOU. Shame as physical disgust is something I've never had a handle on. To be honest, it sounds potentially woo. I've always subjected myself to disgust via my malignant superego. I call him my Drill Sergeant - his method is never ending contempt. He says, "As soon as I break you, you can begin to rise again." But in the end, I always resist. The superego never gets its win. So I never rise.
I woke up this morning with the strong intent and desire to figure out how to increase my self-worth/value, as I've spent years trying to understand why I would attract and remain in an abusive marriage in which I feel I am treated like garbage. I completely resonated with the information you shared - as I recognize how I was shamed, ridiculed, and belittled by my mother. THANK YOU for this information Irene! What resources can I connect with to learn how to heal from toxic shame?
Well, the video made me cry. Mostly for the reason I don't know how to deal with all the issues I've been aware of for years or even decades (including tons of shame & disgust about my own existence), I've been just... stuck.
Irene- I think when all of the psychological abuse is combined with physical abuse it leaves a very deep and profound wound in your body, brain, heart, soul. I’m saying this because I’m just seeing these things fold out in my body. The fascia in my body will at times feel like cement or broken glass! Saying that we feel like bad meat is so deep it feels like it’s in my cells. Being hit, suffocated and spit on etc has had much more impact on my psyche than I ever could of imagined. I’m not saying that to sound like a victim, I mean that when my body has been given those Messages they have gone somewhere that manifests itself by neglecting physical and medical needs. It’s not logical. It’s a belief that I have that I don’t even know that I have…. Not Until, I’ve seen the results on an MRI… it’s wild. Thank you for this work, Irene! ❤
I suddenly couldn't watch zombie movies anymore. didn't know why for 15 years. turns out I fear becoming one because I'm bad. what do bad things do? they rot.
Lovely video! I was recommending your channel & interview with the man who took ayauasca in the comment on videos about prince harry and gabor mate recently. Views are polarised on this I know but I don't think there's a short cut to having the ''windscreen cleared''. I'd rather figure things out slowly.
My mother is 77. She is still disgusted by me. When I visit her she says, ' Go home. Why do you keep coming and coming? I don't know what to say to you.' If I can learn to deal with the hurt, shame and self-disgust that surfaces for me then I think I will be able to solve the problem. It started with her; a woman who simply was repulsed by her child. The answer also lies in coming to terms with her. And forgiving her.
@@uyoebyik, forgiveness is a technical term that has a clear definition or two. It means that you accept the current situation as it is. Opposed to ruminating on "this can't have happened, I reject this reality". It has nothing to do with warm fuzzies or a god complex. Past events never become untrue, but the abusive person either has done reparations and taken ownership or not.
Also, you should never try to go out of your way to feel disgust for her. Either facts warrant it or not, but it's not a good emotion to carry around. Evil is best forgotten.
Is it normal to cry a ridiculous amount while healing? I just saw a video of a cute cow and cried. It’s always just a few seconds of tears but it’s happening so often that I just had to ask lol. It’s like any overwhelming emotion makes tears come out, whether happy or sad.
Jordan, yes, often as we explore this work the floodgates can open (so to speak). Staying oriented to the here and now, to what resources you, and perhaps a practice like the one I'll share below can often help us to care for ourselves and support our healing as this happens. - Jen from Team Lyon DIY: Ancient Anxiety Medicine - ruclips.net/video/0ICsbXUCKmM/видео.html
I love how in depth your videos go! My mother used to make faces showing disgust whenever she wanted to put someone in the wrong to mask her b*s*, it makes perfect sense now!
I have been moving through so much these past few weeks and have been constantly dry retching!! Now it makes sense, I've been clearing out all that toxic shame!! 🤢 It's been like a 3 week ayahuasca ceremony! 😅
Disgust is the hardest part for me. My mind just won’t let me look at myself at certain ages. When I do inner child work, 5 years old is okay, but 8- or 10- or 12-year-old me…I can’t look at her. She’s pudgy and awkward, she’s annoying, she makes everyone uncomfortable, just…ew. Don’t make me look at her.
Disgust, shame are very impactful emotional experiences, it's taken me a long time to get the nerve to look at it question it. It feels like others can use our negative experiences our reluctance to confront these emotions residing in us to manipulate and or emotionally blackmail us as well as the overall unpleasantness of it. Very profitable to heal I think.
My mum made me feel disgusting when she got a thrill physically assaulting me in the shower when I was a child. It was buried there for a long time ,still working on it
QUESTION: How is your vision around human functioning, what would you add, contradict, coment on Feldenkrais way of seeing Man (human) and its functionings, culture, self, gravity. Whatever you want, whatever you feel, what is your holistic vision? Also, incorporating your view and knowledge on the human animal emotions would be cherrie on top of cake 🍒 We all love hearing and learning about how does this creature (that I am) work?
Hi @ritacarpinteiro8142 - Big questions you're asking. I'll attempt an answer. I'm Mara with Team Lyon. Both Feldenkrais and Somatic Experiencing, two of the modalities at the root of Irene's teachings, have their basis in understanding that people think, feel, sense, and do. In SE, it's sensation, image, behavior, affect, meaning, so similar, though slightly different words. Whether we're sensing or thinking, acting or feeling, each one influences the others. If our self image shrinks, it affects all these dimensions. And if we do something to help our self image and human capacity grow, all dimensions also may expand.
The interesting thing I am not sure everyone gets is that in an unhealthy situation, contempt (moral thing, "I think you are bad, worthless") and disgust (an emotion, "I feel you're repulsive") are disconnected. So when a person has contempt without disgust, there's no limit to it and it's possible to coexist with a person you have loads of contempt for. Or who has endless contempt for you, yet without disgust. But once trauma heals and these two get connected, the emotion of disgust becomes a limiting factor to the contempt. Prime example is how "neckbeards" and "incels" behave on the Internet. They have loads of contempt for everything, but it strangely lacks emotion. Whereas at the opposite end of the political spectrum you have people who have loads of disgust and anger that's strangely lacking in intellectual content. There are very few moments when my parents have shown recognizable disgust at me and my doings. But those moments have been actually the healthiest, because the real problem is that without the expressed emotion of disgust, the pervasive contempt has gone unrecognized and actually done 99 % of the harm. It usually takes the form of compulsive distrust, second-guessing, contradicting and not taking anything seriously.
Albeit the hurtful comments being flung at you, are often justified by the originators because they think you have done something to shame them first. It's a retalliation in their own mind.
A F 0 seconds ago This is wrong. I’ve worked on disgust and phobias now for a year full time. Disgust is the gateway emotion of hypochondria and that’s powerlessness. Babies brains respond to spider images. Babies don’t have shame. So no, disgust is not the gateway emotion to shame. But I am a survivor of spider abuse by narcisstic parents. So my phobic disgust might be a different disgust than if no toxic disgusting animals were involved. But in my case it’s not shame. Ive explored shamed profoundly and it’s not liked to disgust for me.
I was a very attractive woman some say stunning. One day I was looking in the I was 15 18:17 mirror and my mother said “oh its Claire I love myself Mcgorry “ I didn’t know how that one statement would affect my mental health. 😢 for life I am 62 in July.
Claire Bear the Good Finder, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'm sorry to hear that your painful interaction with your mother has had long long lasting impacts on how you relate to yourself. I hope you continue to explore this work as we can reshape and heal this relationship at any age. I'll link to Irene' New Here page in case you want to learn more about her free and paid resources, and also to an interview with Seth Lyon, Irene's husband and colleague, about how he transformed many aspects of his life through doing this work over time. New Here? - irenelyon.com/new-here/ Healing our resistance to making money, exercising, & living in the matrix with Seth Lyon - ruclips.net/video/Yebx-llgwYY/видео.html
I wonder why some kids gets their will broken while others are themselves no matter how much shit they get. Has to be something were born with i gress.
Hi @0o0o099999 - Often, it's not simply how one was born, though that has an impact. Here is a post from Irene about common experiences that may make a difference in a child's early life. irenelyon.com/2019/01/15/9-common-human-experiences-that-can-be-traumatic-but-are-often-seen-as-not/ - Mara with Team Lyon
When I began self reflection and shadow work, I began to look at myself from the outside looking in and I became disgusted, repulsed, and ashamed of myself! I am starting with love to begin this healing journey. Thank you
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. This is applicable to shame in general. More videos about it: ruclips.net/video/fLimar9w7h4/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/k7NsZ8A4lcI/видео.html
I was never ridiculed or criticized, just totally ignored and never loved. I feel a deep shame for sinply existing. What about this? It's the feeling that I should just disappear. Thank you.
Roxane Dow, Jen here from Team Lyon. Being ignored is a form of abuse, and can definitely lead to toxic shame and feelings of disgust, including that feelings of wanting to disappear that you described. I'm sorry to hear that you were treated this way. One of the gifts of this work is that it can help us to transform our self image and the way we relate to ourselves, and open to experiences of love, connection and care. If you want to learn more about Irene's offerings, you might check out here New Here page: irenelyon.com/new-here/ And here's a video interview with Janet Raftis, one of Irene's students who talks about developing deep self love: ruclips.net/video/oWxMIj5Yna4/видео.html
QUESTION: When I connect with my body and with the intense emotions that come up almost everyday lately, I often have this feeling of wanting to throw up. Not that I am actually sick, but it's a somatic feeling of wanting to puke, getting rid of something invisible or energetical in my body and I had that before and always wondered what that was about. After watching this video, I wonder if that's my body's way of releasing shame?? (I do have a lot of it.) Or could it be an actual physical traumatic experience connected to wanting to puke? It comes up aaaall the time when I connect with how I am actually feeling (when I notice I am dissociating and trying to come back to the present). I usually dissociate from all these really intense feelings because of course they don't feel pleasant and I am not always sure I am even able to stand feeling them. I also wonder if I am going too fast with the somatic work, because of all the intense stuff that's coming up. But I think I have been dissociating my hole life and all I am doing right now is trying to be more present (and then stuff comes up). I know the youtube comments is not the right place to get these complex questions answered but I thought I'd try. But I also think I'll enroll to SBSM in the next round anyway! Thank you so much for the awesome and really helpful content!!
Hello there, Sophia from Team Lyon here. As this question is a little complex and we do not consult or assess symptoms in this comment section, I encourage you to reach out via our support inbox, look up keywords in this RUclips channel to find what Irene has previously said about relevant topics and enroll in SBSM this February 13th if this work resonates with you. smartbodysmartmind.com/ I hope this helps a little
So well done, Irene. Thank you! One ADD that might be helpful to someone: REMEMBER those unresolved loomings inside you ARE IN YOU AS A LITTLE KID!... who NEEDS you NOW!
Just putting it out there: A lot abuse happens in the school system, including the pedagogical psychological industry, where children spend most of their underage life.
What I have always felt, deep inside, was an absolute and horrible sadness...more than being depressed. Thanks God, in Him I found healing. Getting to know the concepts of toxic shame and guilt, though, has let me understand me...and I am grateful for Irene and many others whoo share this precious information.
That's one thing I've noticed doing the somatic work healing trauma. it's like a dark blob inside my gut that I release up out of my mouth. Weird. I guess that's tasting the rat...its not a one and done with the early childhood healing. I've been in it for two years. Making progress for sure! Some days it hits me like a train. The rage, grief, disgust. I'm glad I finally got sober and started the journey. No turning back.
I think what you mean is get parents to stop abusing their children, problem solved, it always goes back to the parents, back to back to back to the first parents... they stuffed up badly
Yep, lots and lots of toxic shame. Sometimes it comes out as defensive "stop looking at me!" energy, and I get extremely annoyed with people who can't pick up on it and 'respect my boundaries', or as crippling depression that tears me apart and leaves me hollowed out, empty. If I'm left alone with my own thoughts for long enough I'll start pacing around for a long time, seething with resentment and envy, fantasizing about exacting bloody revenge on the ones responsible for my toxic shame.
I was attempting to homeschool while battling Lyme and multiple miscarriages w postpartum. As I approached my then husband in tears and despair he swiveled in his chair and barked out in deep disgust: " What NOW." I never recovered from that
I’m still a little unclear. It sounds like healing toxic shame is a matter of just sitting with the feeling and not running from it. That’s how you handle negative emotions but toxic shame is not an emotion it’s a belief. Does sitting with the feeling heal it in a way similar to an emotion?
@Cowface, Jen here from Team Lyon. Shame in the way that Irene is talking about it here refers to a physiological response. There may be beliefs layered on top of this, and working with the underlying response is what often leads to transformation.
Bad meat Not quality - sounds familiar Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom Never is sunshine n kittens XOXO XOXO XOXO XOXO Love n peace from South Australia 🇦🇺
Key to healing is to recognize things for what they are and then let emotions come and go. Emotions follow from what is seen as true, but emotions rarely if ever are a source of a truth. Understanding that you feel bad about something helps. Feeling bad without understanding the reason doesn't help.
I am disgusted with the idea that it's alright to hand down abuse for any reason. I was subjected to severe verbal and emotional abuse and survived a failed attempt of my Father to kill us all by the age of nine. The abuse never stopped by either parent. As far as I know, neither of them endured what they put my brother and I through. It disgusts me that adults can be so cowardly as to abuse their own children - no matter what happened to them. In fact, decent people, in my opinion, would be even more sensitized to how their behaviors affect those more vulnerable than they are. It's zero tolerance for me now. It took decades for me to feel that utmost disgust and walk away from further abuse because of the love I had for my parents. I say "had" because I really lost that love when I embraced myself, my healing, my protection and care, and came out of denial of the immeasurable impact of what they CHOSE to do. However, I had no problem internalizing self-disgust due to the decades of contempt leveled at me by my own parents. What a relief to put the disgust where it belongs - on the perpetrators.
This was great! I did a meditation the other day that lead me to “disgust” - it was the word that came into my head - fear turned to anger, anger to disgust - I then had to apologize to myself for thinking such things & then forgive myself so that “pride” could make an appearance- though it was very small, like saying “pride is still here, underneath all the other crap” but keep going - it was a meditation by Sarah @ Unlock Your Life
I am in a CBT therapy since 2 years and the comments in psychology videos are awful. People only accuse other for their misery. Yes! You are right. Your parents were bad. Now you are responsible of this. You are an adult. Seek help instead of finding exterior causes for your problems. “What is important is not what they made of us, but what we make of what they made of us.” Jean-Paul Sartre RUclips isn’t good to you unless you are in an active therapy that guide you. Before my therapy I thought I was asperger. Turn out that I am not asperger. You know what I mean?
You’ve come so far Irene. Saw a video of you 6 years ago. You look so much better and younger now. So much more light in your eyes. Keep doing this for us all. Bless you and thank you,. Willing to smell my shit😂. Holding Space for Myself from now on. Miracles can happen. 😢.
Disgust..... thats what i said to a mate today that i felt disgust towards certain members....🤔 Toxic shame - depression, feeling low.... this does not belong to us.... lets learn to give this back to the pathetic owner of these emotions
I wonder if this is for me. This is the first video I have seen on this channel, do I belong here or should I look elsewhere for my solution? I have zero self esteem, to the point where toxic shame did resonate with me. However, my ”trauma” is going with undiagnosed ADHD and ASD for 35+ years, which have led to an array of other stuff like obesity, depression and anxiety disorders. But no one was ever mean to me or treated me badly. I did all of that to myself, I still do. From at least the first day of school I have been trying to fit in, compared myself with my peers, altered and masked all things I deemed bad, and never ever felt good enough. I today realize that’s a big part of surviving as an undiagnosed autistic girl, but it have created a ”trauma” that I continue to reinforce every day because I believe it. I am disgusted and ashamed with myself.
Hi BeautifulFear, Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm sorry to hear about the suffering you have endured, and continue to live with. I hope you will consider that if you are disgusted and ashamed with yourself, that didn't come from you - you took that information in from others at some point, even if that 'other' was a toxic, insensitive system that wasn't suited to the needs of your unique being. As far as if this is the right place for you or not, hard to say! I'll encourage you to keep watching videos and feel it out. This is a guide we put together that lists all of what we feel are the most important videos to start with... irenelyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/IL-Field-Guide-to-your-NS.pdf
I wondered what that feeling was. Every once in a while i feel like something is rising to the surface. But i always thought it was rage, rather than disgust. But i feel like it's gonna come out of me in an explosion, and I'm not going to be able to stop it from hitting others. Although I perceive it as rage, the fear is always that when i explode, it will splatter on everyone, and they'll be covered with this disgusting... bile, and they'll never forgive me for.. spewing it on them. I'm so scared of this happening, that I always give it a narrow pathway to follow - an addiction (porn). At least that way, it's only me disgusted with me. I can survive that because I've done it countless times before. I fear I can't survive everyone else's disgust though. I guess that makes me confused about the title of this video. Disgust has never helped me. It's because im this "disgusting thing", this bad meat (as you put it), that I feel toxic shame. I do feel that it needs to come out, but the consequence, if there is one, is not MY disgust, but everyone else's. And being willing to face that is essentially an act of rebellion, like "I don't give a shit if I disgust you." On a side note, I've read elsewhere that the actual emotion for healing toxic shame is guilt. If you're made to feel that you have to bury yourself to be tolerated, then displaying yourself out in the open is an act against that conditioning. You're doing something 'wrong'.
Culture is a factor too. If one is stuck in a culture and a socioeconomic condition and lives more rurally …even with on-line there is no person-centered care by high quality therapists. Please lets advocate for changing culture too. For someone suicidal who is poor they have a 10-30 call with a complete stranger AND/OR meds with a therapist not of their choosing and for only 50 min a week AND/OR (either of the first to often leads to the last option) hospital stay for 2 days where could be easily misdiagnosed and forced medicated even though showing no danger to themselves or others. Even if someone is in danger of hurting themselves it seems pretty ludicrous if they suffered from a lot of early childhood abuse that 50 min a week is going to do much of anything ESPECIALLY if the person has become chronic and problems in their life now to the point where there is no way to catch up, clear up and start from a baseline.
Shame is not just ridicule- verbal abuse - as it is being excluded, not given a voice, not listened to and essentially not welcomed in the family. That not welcomed means that I don’t have a right to be here. It is a message that extinguishes identity and hope.
Shame is a self identify that forms due to the things you mentioned. It is a core wound of "I am bad" vs I have made a bad choice, etc.
It makes the person feel to their core, they aren't good enough, unworthy.
Their whole sense of self comes from this wounded core.
Unfortunately, when this isn't held for oneself is that a person cannot heal.
It hurts. However, it is essential to bring compassion. It's very hard, because shame doesn't want to be seen.
The avoidance of shame creates self sabotaging behaviors, that unfortunately perpetuate the shame core wound. To be able to tend to, look at, shame, it can be excruciatingly painful to witness...it can feel like a double bind. Why would we want to look at, sit with, such a depth of shame, we want to get away. However, the only way healing can happen, is to hold the shame wound, for our inner child. We have to show up, as no one else has before.
I’m sorry- it’s a horrible feeling. My brother and his wife and kids all have their birthday within a few weeks of each other. I went round to his house and put a huge pile of presents on his kitchen table, and looked up to see a Happy Birthday banner to their joint party that I hadn’t been invited to. I felt like such a chump.
Well said! I felt all of this. When I was describing to my therapist how I learned how to eat, drink, walk, and breathe silently, she said, “It sounds like you weren’t allowed to exist.” Dang. That’s definitely how it felt, and some part of me still carries that around.
THis is so right on. Exactly. THe problem is fully allowing oneself to go back into that space even though (and at the same time) we walk around half realizing we are in that state. There is a lot of repression involved and sometimes often there is a block to accessing the whole of it.
@@evakatz6351I’m so sorry- also keep in mind , no telling what the nature of that “party “ was - either way, you have nothing to be ashamed of, you are good kind and so generous- don’t let that go bc of hurtful even if neglectful humans
Thank you so much..
You are doing God's work and your content is so needed!!!❤❤❤
disgust. 100% ruled my being. over it :)
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I just went through hell over the holiday it is my oldest sibling and all of the family members go along with it. I am so mad about what happened I feel mad at them, mad at myself humiliated, I hate it, I hate me, I want to just die.
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. I'm very sorry to hear about what's going on for you and thank you for sharing. If you believe you're in crisis, a medical professional needs to know what's happening and advise you and/or provide treatment. If you don't get the support you need there, please contact your primary physician. As a final step, if you get no support from your doctors, go to the ER if you are finding that things are at a crisis level for you.
The key to improving nervous system regulation is to have at least one resource of support for settling. And to practice it and notice how it feels to have your system - your thinking, your emotional feelings and your body sensations..... settle and calm. You will be more present as you experience this; more connected to everyday reality and less desperate.
Please also see our resource for In Crisis support and intervention. irenelyon.com/in-crisis/
Additionally, if you feel inclined to support yourself and work on your nervous system, I recommend Irene's free resources over here: irenelyon.com/free-resources/ Please feel free to reach out to our support inbox if you have any questions
Irene, how do I get certification in somatic healing? Do you recommend a certain school?
Hello Jennifer. Bailey here from Team Lyon. Irene is currently working on a beta program that will teach and certify facilitators in this specific type of work. You can learn more about the program here: irenelyon.com/scientuitive-beta-registration. Hope this helps! :)
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I see healing toxic shame practically as an act of Exorcism. I have no other word to describe the intensity and insidiousness of it.
Well put
@@starlight4036 Otto F. Kernberg suggested that narcissistic disorders of character are foundation of most mental health problems. If we understand disturbances in narcissism we would probably find a theory of everything
YT Richard Grannon & Prof. Sam Vaknin about Fantasy
This isn't wrong. Proverbs 18:3 (msg) says 'When wickedness arrives, shame’s not far behind;' overcoming shame means removing wickedness, aka exorcism.
@@mapsdot9223 In the macho football world you never want to act weak or look weak. So whenever I would feel fear I would be very shaming of it, “Get out of here”. After college it would all caught up to me and I would have all kinds of panic and anxiety. It works for a while but you just create more exiles. Relate to these parts like a good captain or loving parent. “It's ok to be scared and I still love you.”
🟥 IFS & Tanya: Dr. Richard Schwartz & Rabbi YY Jacobson
Wow. I recently had my first orgasm and I felt a huge burst of emotional pain come out of my heart. I’ve never given birth but that’s what it felt like physically. Like a birthing of demons
I never forgot the shock I felt when my mum looked at me with contempt and said to her friend, right infront of me, that my eyes had no soul just like my Dad. I was more shocked at the fact that she looked at me snd spoke of me as if I was not a person snd I was not present. I never forgot the coldness that ran through my being. I understood over the years why my Dad had such problems and also why I feel so dehumanised and not worthy of being alive.
Sounds like she was projecting her own negative feelings about herself onto you. You did not deserve that.
You’re worthy. You’re enough. Your life is precious.
Projection- she had no soul with a shameless comment
@@ketherwhale6126 Perhaps. But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She likely embodies those, or at least a few, characteristics in which she hates about her mum. Likely without knowing.
@@manher4335
Yes, that’s the tricky part in all of this……seeing how we have some of these similar types of behaviors. It’s shadow work-searching for what about ourselves is hidden from view so we can heal on a deep deep level. There’s nothing like the healing of shame that comes from pulling out our own ways of dysfunction and looking straight at them. And then the deep healing comes. Unfortunately, many people get stuck in the blame game and do not progress past that.
Every time I watch your videos, I get soooo tired and want to take a nap. I mean that as a compliment on behalf of my nervous system 😂 it's so relieving to feel seen and heard and validated by you.
I dedicated time to healing about 5 years ago at 18 years old - in the last month I have realized the root of so many other symptoms: anxiety and depression cycle, ocd, pain, jaw pain, muscle tension, bad posture, isolation was toxic shame - I have been avoiding shame my whole life - once I found a healthy way to face it everything change I’m so serious. stay open to the idea that you are at your core just like every other person. the shaming in your head isn’t you and has nothing to do with you. The feelings that come up have nothing to do with you. This is toxic shame. Nothing more nothing less. I feel like so much of chronic pain, depression, anxiety, BPD, NPD have to do it with shame. Let it out in the light stay present and connected to your body while feeling it and observe don’t absorb the hateful thoughts towards yourself.
Great comment my dude.
I have known I have shame for a very long time and yet I’ve never healed it. I don’t know how you did it?? I know I have shame and I feel it every day but nothing changes?
So how did you work out posture issues ? I have always struggled with them
Hi all!
Here is the main video that helped me manage / handle shame attacks or the overwhelming feelings that come with it:
"Self Compassion: An Antidote For Shame" by Christopher Germer
I want to add: I haven't gotten rid of shame, but rather changed my relationship to it and am guiding my body to get used to this safer, new relationship with it. That said, with this new relationship, I tend to slowly feel shame less often and less intensely, but when I first started, it hit me really hard. So don't beat yourself up if things get worse before they get better.
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For posture I do slow workouts that don't increase cortisol: pilates, slow controlled neck/shoulder movements and walks outside. I take a walk outside everyday. I highly recommended walking outside as much as possible. Nature offers an external peace when the internal is chaos.
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MY OWN PERSONAL TIPS BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE:
- form a set of values about humans: all humans deserve food, community, love, shelter, and to be held accountable with self compassion. These are a few of mine. Now that you have them, use these values to guide your actions. If the feeling of shame comes up and symptoms of it like physical pain, ruminating, dissociating occurr. Name the feeling. Do the activity then act only in your values. Know that logically you are not the exception like that logically makes no sense for you to be the one human exempt from said values. It's tough, but you all got it.
I've watched a lot of Irene's videos but this one just made everything click; made my whole life make sense - the 20 years of chronic fatigue syndrome, the shutting down, the trying not to have needs, becoming more and more introverted and isolated, not speaking up for myself, not standing up for myself, not speaking my truth. I feel like watching this video was the moment my true healing could really begin. Like, I've been on a healing journey for 20 years and it starts now.
Hey GoldandPinkLight, Seth here with Team Lyon. That's so awesome!! Really great to hear :) If you would like support in what next steps to take on that journey, this page might be useful... irenelyon.com/new-here
@@IreneLyon Hi Seth! Thank you. Doing 21 day now and looking ahead to SBSM in the fall. Many thanks to you and Irene. 💜
wow - i read your comment and was like "i dont remember commenting on this video"
20 years of chronic fatigue syndrom? I'm so sorry to hear that! I wish you full and complete healing from every physical and psychological and a mix there of issue.
I can SOO RELATE!! Been on the Journey for 57 years! And my Journey starts Now. And now... And NOW!!
Disgust = The thing my mother did that sticks with me the most. She'd say my name in such a way I almost committed suicide over not being able to get that voice out of my head. Such Disgust.
This is intense!
Sometimes it’s over correction. High expectations, impatience and perfection expected by the parent that is chronic. Dismissive ness, down playing problems, not listening and lack of support in a sensitive way. This adds up over time, as the kid feels no good and becomes invisible. In order to cope the kid “ disappears”. She didn’t actually come out and call names and constantly admonish. There was a lot of disappointment and over correction and accusations of doing something or saying it the way it was definitely not intended - causing self questioning and self doubt to the point of gaslighting and shame about the self. She was projecting what she does or did on to me. I constantly questioned how I came across- was I really those things? It’s very insidious.
If I had a superpower, it would be invisibility. If no one can see you, they can't attack you.
Yep
Wow I could of written that Op.
@@pamelamccarthy1412that's a trauma driven wish. That's an inner child crying out.
Humans want to be seen/known/understood/accepted. This is what love is
Think of a wish that can reach beyond the trauma wish. Otherwise, if your trauma is running the show, your wishes included...the power is given to your trauma, and those who hurt you. You hurt yourself, by living those ways do thinking out. When you can heal beyond that, it's powerful.
My Father told me hundreds of times (with contempt) as a small child "You're so full of shit your eyes are brown!" My Mother's emotional abuse and neglect were more insidious..."You're too sensitive!" 'You're so dramatic!" in response to my normal need for emotional support or my reasonable reactions to the abuse/neglect.
Neither parent was abused in childhood. And, even if they were, it doesn't justify their actions. I WAS abused and it made me MORE sensitive to others, ESPECIALLY children.
Oh wow! My dad would so often tell me "you're so full of shit" whenever I had a different opinion or was basically doing anything he didn't agree with. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Sometimes I wonder if my chronic constipation has anything to do with it, as odd as that might sound.
@@erinm3567 I wouldn't doubt it Erin. They say the subconscious mind (thus, the body) takes things quite literally. I had an Aha! moment in the car the day after writing this. My Father was a character much like Alex Murdaugh and he knew I saw through him from a very young age. He was "full of shit" at every turn and basically projecting/confessing to his very young daughter. My Mom was like Maggie Murdaugh - loved $$$, status and image. My Dad almost killed us all when I was nine and all that proverbial shit hit the fan. Luckily, he collapsed before going through with it. (I messed up his plan by wrangling away and going for help.). Watching the Murdaughs has brought so much to the surface lately. God bless us all 🙏✝️❤️
me too I've been getting the 'you're too sensitive' treatment from my mother for as long as I can remember. often told off for crying, and often asked if I was made out of crystal (nothing could be said or done to me without breaking me).
We sounds like siblings!
@@thanksagainforthetea Great analysis and explains why when I tried to achieve a closer bond with my Mother in healthy ways she would deny me that and say "Well, MY Mother never..." I would "shutty-shutty" (as Lisa A. Romano puts it) because there was no need to try to reason with her, like..."That sounds quite painful, wouldn't you like for us to have things better than that?" It all falls on intentionally deaf ears. Mommy Dearest always knows best! And, that's the point!! Forget doing what's right, what's best, what makes more sense - and you can MOST definitelly forget what brings more joy!!!
My parents mocked and ridiculed us all the time. We were told we were ‘too soft’ if we got upset. It was soo pervasive I thought it was normal until I started to notice that my friends parents didn’t seem to behave that way, they didn’t seem to treat their kids with contempt. I’m in my 40s now with two young children and am determined i don’t pass this toxic shame into them.
Thankyou for this video. I cried ( I do this a lot lately) it’s such a relief to realise I’m not crazy or weak or stupid. Bless you x
Thanks so much for being here Lisa
holy shit i wasnt the only one????
I can hear my mother’s, father’s, and brother’s words ‘that’s disgusting’. Said some many times and still said. I’ve had to go ‘no contact’ in order to break free from their energy and heal on a deeper level. Thank you for the amazing work and teaching you do, Irene. It has helped me greatly. ❤
The "bad meat" thing reminds of being told "You're so spoiled" when I acted out, or when I was given something/treated nice. It was used to either communicate that my needs were not valid, or that I was not deserving of receiving good things.
wow "not deserving to receive nice things." this resonated with me deeply as I experienced very similar things and now I can clearly see how it is correlated to my relationship with money. thank you for sharing!
I love “remember what I did for you” and it’s ONE thing they did for you over 20 years ago. Normal things like hosting a baby shower for you. The scoreboard comes out.The guilting never stops.
@@KM-nd6wjsadly I found myself guilting out my daughter. I have no idea where to bring to heal that relationship. I thought I was a protective and loving mother. I have since found out that I was not good enough in many ways. Best of luck
This one strikes a chord for me. I was my mothers target "who do you think you are? what makes you think you're so special? Its all your fault". The affect, the impact has been lifelong. Powerful image, the rotten meat. Thank you for the work you do to help us heal our wounds.
Yes...How dare you/ who do you think you are/ horrible pronouncements made to me as well.🥺
My problem now is dealing with all the suffering I caused myself due to this. Inappropriate behaviors like being easy to sleep with, eating junk food, smoking pot and cigarettes etc... I destroyed my body
Hi Dana, Seth here with Team Lyon. Yes, the behaviors resulting from toxic shame can take a toll for sure, I am familiar with that myself. Thankfully, the human body is very resilient and can recover from a lot when it has the right support! If you feel this work, along with any lifestyle and dietary changes could be helpful, it could be useful to check out Irene's free resources and online programs... irenelyon.com/new-here/
Ok but what are you doing TODAY??? RIGHT NOW is the only thing that matters🥰🥰
You’ve identified self trashing behaviour so now you can stop it and investigate and heal. Well done
No matter what you have done to tear your body down I promise you can start building it back up. Whatever you did in the past doesn't matter anymore. The only thing that matters is TODAY🥰 ( I used meth and heroin for 30 yrs)
Don't include "pot" in your list of vices, just quit the rest
This can definitely happen in school. I was the only person of colour in my school and in my whole town. I was shamed, abused and attacked because I was brown, for a decade. I felt like an alien. They told me I was disgusting and dirty. I was spat at, beaten, stabbed and there was no justice. The teachers didn't care. My parents didn't believe me. Eventually as a child I concluded that I must deserve it and this was the way of the world.
Hi Jenova, Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm so sorry to hear you had to live through that. Thanks for sharing your story here. If you feel that this work may be able to help you in some way, I recommend checking out our New Here page and downloading the Field Guide there. irenelyon.com/new-here/
So sorry you had to go through that as a little one 😢
Hoping you have found some (or a lot already 😊) self worth back again. Sending you much love ❤❤
How you were treated was so unacceptable. I was bullied as well, but as a pasty white kid, they found other things to hate about me. I was ugly, flat chested, a whore (5th grade whore? really?). I got kicked in the shins, punched in the head and tummy. I never told anyone. I am just now coming to terms with these painful memories at the age of 50. I wish we would include how to appreciate each others differences in kindergarten, it should be part of the curriculum. All colors and all income level children should be safe at school from each other and from teachers. You never deserved any of this.
That's sad. If that racism was so prevelant in the school, how did your parents avoid it in the town?
@@smegmatic308 They probably experienced the same amount of hate or even worse and we’re so traumatized and overwhelmed by their own struggles that they diminished and neglected their children’s cries for help because they can’t even protect themselves let alone their children.
That’s a tough pill to swallow as a parent. Not feeling able to protect your child, so you can’t guide your child, which is your role as a parent. Very easy for emotionally unintelligent parents dealing with that environment to crack under pressure & neglect their kids or use them as emotional or physical punching bags.
Same way generations can be victim to narcissistic abuse and commit that same abuse/neglect to the next generation. Racial trauma can and is passed down through internalized racism/ neglect of guidance through racist experiences.
Hope this helped🫶🏽
What can we do about the healing of disgust? It’s such a strong emotion and about self rejection also.
I think we need "disgust" tbh, we just don't need to internalize it
When we feel disgust towards someone it is important to allow ourselves to feel it, realise the feeling is there because it is letting us know not to trust this person. As a child that is terrifying as we have no control over the situation, as an adult we can choose to step out of the relationship or go low contact to create space to work on healing from our past and focus on becoming our future self.
When the feeling comes allow it. Give it awareness.
This explains why I sometimes find myself struggling not to vomit--literally dry-heaving--after feeling a wave of intense of emotion or after recalling certain memories. Shame.
Thank you for describing shame as a physiological response and sensation..
another piece on supporting my inner child and my adult self.
Furthermore, I have always felt my mental state is directly contributing to my fascia, connective tissue, and joint inflammation and pain and sluggish liver. Now that I’m regaining rebalancing releasing and healing my health naturally comes along with it.
Asking myself daily:
“I give permission to deeply and completely love and accept all of myself.”
“I give myself permission to release all energy that is not mine.”
“I recall and reclaim all of my energy.”
To anyone struggling with your toxic shame on the other side is a life so rich and amazing that I can't believe it exists. struggling with the memories and pain of humiliation and being attacked is psychological torture. but on the other side is a life that is so rich and fulfilling that it's all worth it. Keep going!!!!!! It's not your fault. you are just born here. return it back to the universe... return to sender.
How you passed through it?
I was diagnosed with arthritis at age 15. I had been in pain for 2 years before getting medical care & my parents had insurance. When ever I was sick dad (raging alcoholic)always thought I were faking it. Even when the school nurse sent a note home to have my vision checked I had to wait a year for glasses as dad thought I was just "trying to get attention " & threatened to "beat the shit" out of you if the eye doctor found nothing wrong. I'm 64 now and have been unable to work, due to arthritis since I was 39.
My mom was an anxious & timid person. Later turned out to be a massive hoarder. Dad controlled the family with fear & mom did it with shame.
I grew up not being allowed to express emotions. I've always curious if the arthritis was connected to the toxic environment I was raised in.
Linda Tshappat, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'm really sorry to hear that you weren't heard and supported when you were in pain as a kid.
Your question about the connection between your arthritis and the toxic environment is an interesting one. We do find that we can tend to hold a lot to it in the bones when we have early trauma (if you think of an infant in utero and after birth they don't have much other tissue), so it sure sounds like a possibility. It's great that you found your way here, and are learning about this work as it can benefit us at any age.
@@IreneLyon thanks for your response!
Thanks to all the teachers and healers of this world for helping us 😢
I been studying psychology since the day I figured out there's something wrong and that I have been grown up in an abusive household. I have read tons of articles on toxic shame and watched hours of content but the way you helped me understand it, nobody has drawn my attention that way before. What you're doing and seriously revolutionary in the medicine especially in the area of trauma.
I think the easiest way to get rid of toxic shame is to give it back to the person who gave it to you. Not in person, but in your own mind/heart.
Some delusional people can't be shamed. Sad but true.
@@thunderpooch That's true. My comment did not mean to attempt to make those people feel shame because, you're right, they can't. We can only make OURSELVES feel less of the shame they put upon us by diverting it back to them, but only IN OUR OWN MIND/HEART.
I kind of feel like they gave me a permanent emotional disability for life and all these youtube videos and therapy sessions are just giving me false hope. Like imagine how cruel it would be to tell a paraplegic they will walk again if they just think enough positive thoughts.
The narcissists took something from me that I will never get back.
That doesn't just go away or fade with time or healing. It's just gone.
Imagine how cruel it would be to tell a child who lost their leg in an accident that with enough self love and self care their leg will grow back good as new and stronger than ever. Imagine how terrible that child would feel thinking they're not doing a good enough job when they never grow their leg back no matter how hard they devote themselves rigorously to all the false hope recommendations of self care journey stuff. Every day they wake up feeling like a failure seeing the same painful leg stump. Instead of doing the kinder thing helping the child face the reality that he will never feel whole again like the other kids because that is the reality but no one wants to be burdened with the task of helping him face the truth that he is just not going to have the same kind of life as others.
That's how I feel watching narcissistic abuse recovery videos and going to therapy.
There is no getting better.
There is no feeling better.
Don't you guys get it yet?
This is it right here.
Like there is no upside to this. Stop trying to make this some sort of spiritual enlightenment path to nirvana.
We are glorifying the process of being abused as if it's something that will lead to some sort of ultimate karmic retribution by liviour best life and forgiving the unforgivable "for ourselves not for them"🙄and all that same nonsense.
There IS NO KARMIC RETRIBUTION! DON'T YOU GET IT YET? THEY WON. Take the L!!! We got screwed over big time and they did outsmart us.
Come on already people stop with the empath labels like we're some sort of mystical beings on some magical Hero's Journey that are special enough to be abused for so long and remain ever compassionate and loving.
Narcissists are scammers, WE FELL FOR IT, END OF STORY. There's nothing special in us that the narcissist saw. They saw us like a pawn shop owner would see a new object to trade and sell like a commodity. They could care less about our empathy. Ugh. The universe doesn't give a sh*t about your empathy and how many times we get conned by psychopaths that appeal to our egos. There's no cosmic reward for your codependent martyrdom. You can stay or leave, live or die an untimely tragic death, be empathetic or apathetic, loving or hateful, either way it does not affect the narcissist or make them sad or sorry for hurting you.
There's no timer that goes off at 30 years of abuse where the universe is like, "Sherry, eh, you know what she's put up with a lot of crap for long enough, let's reward her modest humble approach to life getting beaten down by the narcissists we placed in her path to test her character and integrity by seeing how she reacted to getting betrayed by everyone we set her up in advance to be lead to believe she was supposed to be able to trust!
Guess what Sherry you passed! Here's your reward and now everything will finally be okay!
Um no that's not reality😐.
Yeah some people are just control freaks who want that over you. No one knows what they're doing, so when you do the *wrong* thing it's under a microscope. It's gross, but their obsession is not your responsibility, our responsibility is to "do the work" so we don't feel like we'll ever be compelled to let our actions define us or harm others.
@@PassionateFlower - You know, I was just wondering the same thing the other day. Unraveling the effects of toxic shame might be lifelong. If I may share my story a bit here with you: When many years ago I found some trustworthy people who were more mature overall I decided to entrust them with some of the dirty laundry ( toxic shame ) I endured. Their compassion, empathy, prayer, hugs, counsel were profoundly helpful and hopeful. Some therapy helped. Conscious decisions to begin to not tolerate disrespect helped. Reading "Boundaries" ( Cloud/Townsend) was life-transforming. Holding myself accountable in any way / shape / form "I" was using any bitterness to mentally "get back at" my past enemies was also powerfully helpful and freeing. Hope my story helps encourage you. I get where you're coming from and believe there is progress and healing to be had, though it can take longer than our quick-fix culture allows. Peace and Grace to you.
I wasn't ridiculed, I was never told I was rotten but I was told I was paranoid, emotional and sensitive for decades, like it was FACT. I had to accept it or there was a big row I could never win (to deflect away from my parents inability to allow any emotion) and when I challenged that I was called angry, insane, entitled............ to shield them from their defensiveness and their total aversion to reciprocal communication. They have been giving me the silent treatment now for nearly three years. So yeh, the first time I EVER stood firm in my own interpretation of events, I was just written out. I don't feel shame, I feel sad I think, depressed about the situation but not depressed in myself. I will never be allowed back in to the family again unless I play the part of dead meat again. I stumbled my way through this work, I wondered if I'd smell dead rat forever, I was just listening to books about shame on audible and listening to books about healing from trauma and self-compassion.
Thanks for sharing your struggles. Gabor mate has also lot of useful stuff on childhood trauma and behavior. It's a super tough journey and can be lonely. I just started diving deep and can see from early age I developed an anxious avoidant attachment style to survive plus other strategies. So I did't fully trust anybody the last 45 years, was in an alert state and has developed a chronic illness. Much work to do , I hope you find the help and support you need🙏
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@@larsstougaard7097 I'm through the worst pain now, still no family, but only a magic wand can fix that!
You do not need to try to get back into that family. They are absolutely nuts. You need to run and STAY as far away as you can. Find genuine people to can see who and what you really are. But most importantly, make sure YOU can see who and what you really are!! You don't have to be a perfect person and even in all the good and bad you are worthy!
@@SusanaXpeace2u sending you good energy 🪄✨️✨️✨️
Lots of toxic shame here so watching this explains the connection with dry heaving as this comes up for me, pardon the pun! I'm experiencing more shaming from others so this video could help me notice and be more present when it happens and maybe the feelings and emotions that usually arise could also join this moment and just be with it instead of taking over or being pushed down, the message within could have its voice in a more spacious and present way. Who knows what'll follow! I love this stuff, makes me feel connection 🙏🌱🎆🦉🕊
This was very uncomfortable for me; which means you hit a deep wound(s). Thank you.
Thank you for your work on toxic shame, and the immeasurable impact it has on a healthy life. I have just recently become aware of the impact of contempt in early years, as it came up and literally wiped me out during a visit with my sons family this year. It brought me right into that small devastated little person, ganged up on and shamed. It is the most devastating emotion or experience I've ever experienced. I literally wanted to do anything to get out of that place, and can see why addictions happen for people. Grateful I had studied and commited myself so much to my healing process that I could make it through to the other side. Toxic shame indeed is a somatically held, physiologically painful experience.
Thanks so much for sharing Susan. I'm so glad you have been able to heal!
My precious grandmother wrote me today that she doesn't have as much energy these days as she used to. I broke down when I read it and came to a crashing crushing realization that it is shame that has kept me from being around the past year as much as I wanted to be present with her at the time. I am right now trying my best not to regret the time with her I have already lost and just keep moving forward and making that change. I hope and pray it can be enough. I love her more than anything forever and all I can do from now until always is show her that love. I am so sorry.
Call her
Regognisable.. I was eventually able to sincerely look at myself with compassion and accept the situation as well as my part in it. Life isn't perfect and neither are we.. I hope you can find the same compassion and acceptance 🍀
I feel a lot of disgust lately after breaking up with someone who failed my trust. I blame myself for letting him into my life.
I had the same experience this year
Hugs, going thru what seems similar
Irene, can you talk to healthy shame and "gentle parenting"?
Jessica Stephens, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'll link to a video where Irene and Seth Lyon, her husband and colleague, talk about healthy shame, and also to a few parenting related videos.
They are more about regulated (and dysregulated) parenting than gentle parenting, and you there are some connections.
Understanding the difference between healthy shame & toxic shame with Seth Lyon - irenelyon.com/2021/10/31/healthy-shame-toxic-shame-with-seth-lyon/
Why parental nervous system regulation is essential for anxious kids - ruclips.net/video/BSCx9N-cNC8/видео.html
How to help anxious kids who are behaving "badly" - w/ Stephen Terrell || Irene Lyon - ruclips.net/video/UgBnfLE1asY/видео.html
The Ill Effects of Dysregulated Parenting - irenelyon.com/2022/10/23/the-ill-effects-of-dysregulated-parenting/
Right there in front of my eyes my mom literally talked about me to her friend using the word "Disgusting!!" (just imaging the dramatic tone in her voice..!) and pointing at me 😂 oh crap, im glad i was kinda psychologically advanced as a kid, it probably saved me i was able to see that she was just sick and out of any balance. But truth is of course it still hurts 😛
My brother used to call me disgusting all the time, with a dramatic tone also, and a face full of disgust. Disgusting and ugly
Yes, I often see people talk about how people doubt themselves when treated like this, but I've never had this problem. I was always strong in my conviction that I was not inferior. But that does not in the slightest decrease the mental anguish caused by being treated as if you were
@@MariamHafez89 its so crazy 😵💫😮💨
@@DaveGrean yes, exactly 😶
Thank you for this video!
I was recently diagnosed with ADHD (the inattentive type or what was called ADD before) at 46 years old. When you talked about being in intense emotions I felt that this is where I am when I am engaged, I'm often completely still (disengaged) of fully engaged with intense emotion. It's hard to be "mediocre" in the correct sense of the word. I'm either completely scattered and all over the place not paying attention to the person in front of me or I'm hyper focused on them. Both seems to lead me to feel this toxic shame because either I feel like I didn't give enough attention to them as I walk away OR I make them feel slightly uncomfortable if I give them too much attention and that makes me feel embarrassed so I try to avoid it. It's really tough because I personally do love to give attention and exchange intense emotion but it seems most people don't and shame me for it. Make sense?
relatable
very relatable ive been diagnosed since i was a kid and i stil struggle with this
Yep. I’m 43 and figuring all this out now
Hi, Irene. I absolutely love your info and the videos you create.
This one, in particular, really drew me in. I worked as one of the psychotherapists for almost 6 years with the John Bradshaw center for Co-dependency.
As you may know, his primary focus for therapeutic change was his unique approach and understanding of the term he coined as "toxic shame".
We were trained to assist our patients to heal and recover from the childhood trauma they suffered, anchored in their emotional and somatic experiences of toxic shame.
I love that you differentiate between healthy and toxic shame. This is extremely important to clarify.
Through coming to understand the categories of emotions, we simplified our work and utilized various modalities of treatment to accomplish that necessary recovery.
I hope you, and others, begin to understand that disgust is part of the spectrum of shame, as is shyness, humiliation, or embarrassment. It is not, of itself, a primary emotion.
As many of our linguistic labels ignore, some of the terms we use, that suggest a single, discrete emotional experience, is really a combined, multifaceted feeling.
Again, thank you for your hard work and deep understanding. You are providing an essential understanding that facilitates recovery for us all.
Hi zenman52, Jen here from Team Lyon. It sounds like you have a lot of experience learning about and working with shame, and toxic shame.
I want to differentiate here in the nervous system work we view many experiences through the lends of physiologic response, and less so through the lends of primary and secondary emotion.
Looking through the lends of physiology, we do find that disgust is it's own response, separate and distinct from shame (both healthy and toxic).
I don't think I get it. From what I understood: 1: understand the difference between healthy shame and toxic shame; 2: understand what triggers feelings of toxic shame; 3: be willing to explore and sit with feelings of toxic shame when they come up. Then what? What 'heals' toxic shame? How do we get to a point where we don't feel a deep sense of disgust and loathing for our own selves? I've been told 'just sit with it' a hundred times by therapists. Yes: I'm sitting with it. I genuinely hate myself. Every day. How does that make anything better?
Exactly!! Exactly me. Thank you you spared me from watching this & feeling worse
@@Kittensforchrist I'm glad. I hope you're ok.
Hi Susanna, I've just started this kind of work, but I think the idea is more to be able to feel it
physically in your body. Be able to feel where it is and move in and out of it, realise its just an emotion and not a threat or trigger, reason to hate or dislike yourself in any way. I had lots of therapy but it didn't really work until I did Somatic Experiencing/movement which is more about uprooting these deeply held feelings and beliefs from your body. Emotions don't need to be healed as such, but felt and processed even though they are toxic (so not based on anything real but more to do with the person who made you feel that way). When you do the SE work you come to see it more like old toxic stress that was trapped in your body, and that definitely can be released.
"Disgust is the gateway emotion for working with shame. Shame is not an emotion, it's a quality, a physicality, whole body and visceral. It doesn't have emotional tone." Very interesting, but I don't really understand it. I always thought that emotions were felt in the body, what's exactly the difference with shame? Is this covered in one of your other videos?
Great video, very inspiring, I can start working with this. Thank you so much!!
Hi Flawesome Synefin. Seth here with Team Lyon. This can be confusing because when we are holding unresolved toxic shame in our system, this can produce lots of emotions, like sadness, jealousy, even self-hatred. However, when we are in contact with that toxic shame directly, it is much more of a raw, visceral cluster of sensations. It's kinda the same as the fact that being punched in the gut is not an emotion - we may have emotions about being punched in the gut, but the impact into the viscera itself, even though it is felt in the body, is not really an emotion.
I remember the first time I felt "ashamed of my shame." I'd done something bad and my father was so angry with me. I was literally cowering in fear and I'll never forget the look of disgust that came over his face. He said, "I can't stand to look at you." I think I'm just now realizing the impact of that event. I now believe he suffered with toxic shame as well and didn't know any other way at that time in his life.
Been there too. That seems to be the way.
What happens when you let yourself sit in feelings of toxic shame and disgust? I understand the importance of not suppressing the feelings but when you let them come to the surface and feel their full magnitude - what happens then? You say then you can "work" with them but what does that mean? Does full feeling help resolve them naturally or does some kind of process need to occur?
I've found a lot of healing through letting myself fully feel other difficult emotions like grief- sadness heartbreak but other ones like shame, fear and disgust I find difficult to fully engage with because I have a fear that by really engaging with these feelings that instead of relief I'll just reinforce them more, so whenever I come head to head with these feelings during introspective practices I tend to cut off the experience and try to distract.
Hope that makes sense.
From a personal perspective (I'm not a therapist) I would suggest that it depends on your need of external support, validation, guidance, etc, during that process of feeling your feelings. That could be in the form of a therapist.
Personally, I would have a hard time sitting in such feelings, without that checkpoint (a therapist, or someone who can offer validation and trust) to return to. And so, I would not succeed with regulating/addressing those feelings.
The point is to seek insight into the emotions. It would help to know what shame is. Scholastics defined it as "the fear of being perceived lowly". It does not help healing to say to oneself "I was made to feel like I was not as good as the others and now I keep feeling it on and on", but it does help to understand that it was the message all along and to realize, literally and logically, that it was unfair and untrue. It will then change into a mixture of other emotions.
I feel that religion told me the same message of being unworthy, compounded with having highly demanding parents from a very early age.
Hi dugongsdoitbetter, Seth here with team Lyon. Yes, organized religion can be profoundly toxic and abusive for sure.
Mark deJesus on RUclips: he talks a lot about toxic religion, shame etc., was a game changer for me
what does it mean when i feel disgust around so (who was close to me)? am i projecting? were my boundaries violated/not clear? am i feeling the other persons toxic shame? last time i felt this was around my best friend at the time who told me he might be in love with me but wasn't sure and i tried to ignore it until i couldn't. i was scared he would cross my boundaries bc i did not want more than friendship.... and now i know that these kinds of friendships are not healthy for anyone.
You are not alone. I've been in very similar situations; I've found it's best to peacefully end the friendship and cherish the memories, not the ending. To remain close friends would be extremely unhealthy for both parties.
Carina Scherer, Jen here from Team Lyon. You might have felt this way for a number of reasons. Generally speaking, disgust is telling us "this doesn't sit right with me". So something about your interaction with your friend didn't sit right with something in you.
It might have reminded you of a time in the past, the thought of a romantic relationship with him may have disgusted you, or something about the way he approached the conversation might have touched into some disgust (to give you a few examples). If you're interested, you might see what happens inside as you ask yourself, what didn't sit right with me about this interaction?
When I was 14, we were moving to a house directly across the street from a grocery store. I said excitedly that maybe I could get a job there when I turned 16. My dad looked at me with a mocking look on his face that I could never be able to do that. The memory of his face is etched in my mind still at 58. It makes me feel sick. I internalized that and never thought again of that job I could get. My mental health was down the toilet. I still feel shame about my panic attacks I had back then.
Hi Bonnie, Seth here with Team Lyon. Sorry to hear that! Yes, those imprints can last for so long and affect us so deeply. The good news - we can heal! This work can help. If you feel drawn to exploring it I recommend starting here... irenelyon.com/new-here/
@@IreneLyon Thanks! I'll take al look.
My panic attacks are when men question my existence one dude in motorcycle class got upset I wasn't younger and had kids like I was all kinds of f up it was so anxiety inducing I couldn't do a thing except want too fight dude the whole x wasted alot of money cuz dude kept telling me too grow up like mf I'm grown and it just every time I'd say do anything it was mocking me no job no school just empty he'd say like this loser ...me and I was like dude I'm just wanting too ride it was pathetic dropping the bike flipping the bike almost just f that class I aced my other class people are well people I hope that dude gets road rash for ego points cuz I'm immature.
what about over praising and over clapping these days????!!!!
Susan Ralph, Jen here from Team Lyon. When people are inauthentic or overly effusive it could definitely lead to feelings of disgust.
I'm tainted meat all right...way past my best-by date. 50+ years with ASD means that whatever anyone disapproves of in you, there's probably a very real reason. You give everyone but yourself the benefit of the doubt. Shaming becomes a natural, real-world activity. Others are just telling you how reality is. It's toxic only to YOU.
Shame as physical disgust is something I've never had a handle on. To be honest, it sounds potentially woo. I've always subjected myself to disgust via my malignant superego. I call him my Drill Sergeant - his method is never ending contempt.
He says, "As soon as I break you, you can begin to rise again." But in the end, I always resist. The superego never gets its win. So I never rise.
I woke up this morning with the strong intent and desire to figure out how to increase my self-worth/value, as I've spent years trying to understand why I would attract and remain in an abusive marriage in which I feel I am treated like garbage. I completely resonated with the information you shared - as I recognize how I was shamed, ridiculed, and belittled by my mother. THANK YOU for this information Irene! What resources can I connect with to learn how to heal from toxic shame?
Well, the video made me cry. Mostly for the reason I don't know how to deal with all the issues I've been aware of for years or even decades (including tons of shame & disgust about my own existence), I've been just... stuck.
Irene- I think when all of the psychological abuse is combined with physical abuse it leaves a very deep and profound wound in your body, brain, heart, soul. I’m saying this because I’m just seeing these things fold out in my body. The fascia in my body will at times feel like cement or broken glass! Saying that we feel like bad meat is so deep it feels like it’s in my cells. Being hit, suffocated and spit on etc has had much more impact on my psyche than I ever could of imagined. I’m not saying that to sound like a victim, I mean that when my body has been given those
Messages they have gone somewhere that manifests itself by neglecting physical and medical needs. It’s not logical. It’s a belief that I have that I don’t even know that I have…. Not Until, I’ve seen the results on an MRI… it’s wild. Thank you for this work, Irene! ❤
You are extremely courageous to face this with such awareness. Sending you tons of love on your journey 🤍🤍🤍✨
@@Flowergirl222 thank you for those kind words. 💕💕
What a horrifying experience.. holding space for your healing, holding space for your inner child to be loved. Just want to give you a big hug!💛
I suddenly couldn't watch zombie movies anymore. didn't know why for 15 years.
turns out I fear becoming one because I'm bad.
what do bad things do?
they rot.
Wow. 🙏🙏🙏
Exactly wow.
Lovely video!
I was recommending your channel & interview with the man who took ayauasca in the comment on videos about prince harry and gabor mate recently. Views are polarised on this I know but I don't think there's a short cut to having the ''windscreen cleared''. I'd rather figure things out slowly.
same, plus psychedelics permanently damage some people and they don't come back to their full selves and have flashbacks for the rest of their lives
Oh my god. My entire childhood.
My mother is 77. She is still disgusted by me. When I visit her she says, ' Go home. Why do you keep coming and coming? I don't know what to say to you.' If I can learn to deal with the hurt, shame and self-disgust that surfaces for me then I think I will be able to solve the problem. It started with her; a woman who simply was repulsed by her child. The answer also lies in coming to terms with her. And forgiving her.
I don't know about forgiving but you should be disgusted with her
@@uyoebyikI didn’t see your comment and this was literally my first thought.
@@uyoebyik, forgiveness is a technical term that has a clear definition or two. It means that you accept the current situation as it is. Opposed to ruminating on "this can't have happened, I reject this reality". It has nothing to do with warm fuzzies or a god complex. Past events never become untrue, but the abusive person either has done reparations and taken ownership or not.
Also, you should never try to go out of your way to feel disgust for her. Either facts warrant it or not, but it's not a good emotion to carry around. Evil is best forgotten.
@@seriouscat2231 ok well in that case I have forgiven because I do accept the reality
Is it normal to cry a ridiculous amount while healing? I just saw a video of a cute cow and cried. It’s always just a few seconds of tears but it’s happening so often that I just had to ask lol. It’s like any overwhelming emotion makes tears come out, whether happy or sad.
Jordan, yes, often as we explore this work the floodgates can open (so to speak). Staying oriented to the here and now, to what resources you, and perhaps a practice like the one I'll share below can often help us to care for ourselves and support our healing as this happens. - Jen from Team Lyon
DIY: Ancient Anxiety Medicine - ruclips.net/video/0ICsbXUCKmM/видео.html
SO normal. I cry rivers every day at times.
@Uncle Iroh I'm a water dog, but ok yeah
@Uncle Iroh ah, makes SO much sense. 😊
I love how in depth your videos go! My mother used to make faces showing disgust whenever she wanted to put someone in the wrong to mask her b*s*, it makes perfect sense now!
I have been moving through so much these past few weeks and have been constantly dry retching!! Now it makes sense, I've been clearing out all that toxic shame!! 🤢 It's been like a 3 week ayahuasca ceremony! 😅
Disgust is the hardest part for me. My mind just won’t let me look at myself at certain ages. When I do inner child work, 5 years old is okay, but 8- or 10- or 12-year-old me…I can’t look at her. She’s pudgy and awkward, she’s annoying, she makes everyone uncomfortable, just…ew. Don’t make me look at her.
I've been thinking about this!! So glad this popped up in my feed ❤
This is the best content for starters in healing. Making space is soo key
Disgust, shame are very impactful emotional experiences, it's taken me a long time to get the nerve to look at it question it. It feels like others can use our negative experiences our reluctance to confront these emotions residing in us to manipulate and or emotionally blackmail us as well as the overall unpleasantness of it. Very profitable to heal I think.
My mum made me feel disgusting when she got a thrill physically assaulting me in the shower when I was a child.
It was buried there for a long time ,still working on it
😢😢 big hugs ❤️
QUESTION: How is your vision around human functioning, what would you add, contradict, coment on Feldenkrais way of seeing Man (human) and its functionings, culture, self, gravity. Whatever you want, whatever you feel, what is your holistic vision?
Also, incorporating your view and knowledge on the human animal emotions would be cherrie on top of cake 🍒
We all love hearing and learning about how does this creature (that I am) work?
Hi @ritacarpinteiro8142 - Big questions you're asking. I'll attempt an answer. I'm Mara with Team Lyon. Both Feldenkrais and Somatic Experiencing, two of the modalities at the root of Irene's teachings, have their basis in understanding that people think, feel, sense, and do. In SE, it's sensation, image, behavior, affect, meaning, so similar, though slightly different words. Whether we're sensing or thinking, acting or feeling, each one influences the others. If our self image shrinks, it affects all these dimensions. And if we do something to help our self image and human capacity grow, all dimensions also may expand.
The interesting thing I am not sure everyone gets is that in an unhealthy situation, contempt (moral thing, "I think you are bad, worthless") and disgust (an emotion, "I feel you're repulsive") are disconnected. So when a person has contempt without disgust, there's no limit to it and it's possible to coexist with a person you have loads of contempt for. Or who has endless contempt for you, yet without disgust. But once trauma heals and these two get connected, the emotion of disgust becomes a limiting factor to the contempt. Prime example is how "neckbeards" and "incels" behave on the Internet. They have loads of contempt for everything, but it strangely lacks emotion. Whereas at the opposite end of the political spectrum you have people who have loads of disgust and anger that's strangely lacking in intellectual content.
There are very few moments when my parents have shown recognizable disgust at me and my doings. But those moments have been actually the healthiest, because the real problem is that without the expressed emotion of disgust, the pervasive contempt has gone unrecognized and actually done 99 % of the harm. It usually takes the form of compulsive distrust, second-guessing, contradicting and not taking anything seriously.
Albeit the hurtful comments being flung at you, are often justified by the originators because they think you have done something to shame them first. It's a retalliation in their own mind.
mmmm soultalk, that's an instant dislike
back to hunting channels based on science
Understand it, acknowledging it, by family scapegoating behaviour patterns and the other females enablers
A F
0 seconds ago
This is wrong. I’ve worked on disgust and phobias now for a year full time. Disgust is the gateway emotion of hypochondria and that’s powerlessness. Babies brains respond to spider images. Babies don’t have shame. So no, disgust is not the gateway emotion to shame. But I am a survivor of spider abuse by narcisstic parents. So my phobic disgust might be a different disgust than if no toxic disgusting animals were involved. But in my case it’s not shame. Ive explored shamed profoundly and it’s not liked to disgust for me.
*linked
I was a very attractive woman some say stunning. One day I was looking in the I was 15 18:17
mirror and my mother said “oh its Claire I love myself Mcgorry “ I didn’t know how that one statement would affect my mental health. 😢 for life I am 62 in July.
Claire Bear the Good Finder, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'm sorry to hear that your painful interaction with your mother has had long long lasting impacts on how you relate to yourself. I hope you continue to explore this work as we can reshape and heal this relationship at any age.
I'll link to Irene' New Here page in case you want to learn more about her free and paid resources, and also to an interview with Seth Lyon, Irene's husband and colleague, about how he transformed many aspects of his life through doing this work over time.
New Here? - irenelyon.com/new-here/
Healing our resistance to making money, exercising, & living in the matrix with Seth Lyon - ruclips.net/video/Yebx-llgwYY/видео.html
I wonder why some kids gets their will broken while others are themselves no matter how much shit they get. Has to be something were born with i gress.
Hi @0o0o099999 - Often, it's not simply how one was born, though that has an impact. Here is a post from Irene about common experiences that may make a difference in a child's early life.
irenelyon.com/2019/01/15/9-common-human-experiences-that-can-be-traumatic-but-are-often-seen-as-not/
- Mara with Team Lyon
When I began self reflection and shadow work, I began to look at myself from the outside looking in and I became disgusted, repulsed, and ashamed of myself! I am starting with love to begin this healing journey. Thank you
hello Irene, can this applied to shame from childhood sexual abuse or is there a different video for that one?
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. This is applicable to shame in general. More videos about it: ruclips.net/video/fLimar9w7h4/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/k7NsZ8A4lcI/видео.html
I was never ridiculed or criticized, just totally ignored and never loved. I feel a deep shame for sinply existing. What about this? It's the feeling that I should just disappear. Thank you.
Roxane Dow, Jen here from Team Lyon. Being ignored is a form of abuse, and can definitely lead to toxic shame and feelings of disgust, including that feelings of wanting to disappear that you described. I'm sorry to hear that you were treated this way.
One of the gifts of this work is that it can help us to transform our self image and the way we relate to ourselves, and open to experiences of love, connection and care.
If you want to learn more about Irene's offerings, you might check out here New Here page: irenelyon.com/new-here/
And here's a video interview with Janet Raftis, one of Irene's students who talks about developing deep self love: ruclips.net/video/oWxMIj5Yna4/видео.html
Roxanedow yep me 2. Wish I'd never been born!!!! That's what I'm really angry about I never asked to exist & now there's no way out.
QUESTION: When I connect with my body and with the intense emotions that come up almost everyday lately, I often have this feeling of wanting to throw up. Not that I am actually sick, but it's a somatic feeling of wanting to puke, getting rid of something invisible or energetical in my body and I had that before and always wondered what that was about. After watching this video, I wonder if that's my body's way of releasing shame?? (I do have a lot of it.)
Or could it be an actual physical traumatic experience connected to wanting to puke? It comes up aaaall the time when I connect with how I am actually feeling (when I notice I am dissociating and trying to come back to the present). I usually dissociate from all these really intense feelings because of course they don't feel pleasant and I am not always sure I am even able to stand feeling them.
I also wonder if I am going too fast with the somatic work, because of all the intense stuff that's coming up. But I think I have been dissociating my hole life and all I am doing right now is trying to be more present (and then stuff comes up).
I know the youtube comments is not the right place to get these complex questions answered but I thought I'd try. But I also think I'll enroll to SBSM in the next round anyway!
Thank you so much for the awesome and really helpful content!!
Hello there, Sophia from Team Lyon here. As this question is a little complex and we do not consult or assess symptoms in this comment section, I encourage you to reach out via our support inbox, look up keywords in this RUclips channel to find what Irene has previously said about relevant topics and enroll in SBSM this February 13th if this work resonates with you. smartbodysmartmind.com/ I hope this helps a little
@IreneLyon Hey Sophia, thanks for your reply! My plan is to enroll in SBSM for sure and I am hopeful that I'll find some answers to my question. :)
So well done, Irene. Thank you! One ADD that might be helpful to someone: REMEMBER those unresolved loomings inside you ARE IN YOU AS A LITTLE KID!... who NEEDS you NOW!
04:17 "We're working with deep biological imprints that have visceral qualities to them"
That's it!!!
4:48 *ridiculed* (toxic shamed)
14:57 Peter Levine: working with disgust, disgust is the gateway emotion to working with shame.
I remember feeling self-disgust as a teenager when I was depressed/suicidal. I felt I had “bad blood” in my veins.
Just putting it out there: A lot abuse happens in the school system, including the pedagogical psychological industry, where children spend most of their underage life.
What I have always felt, deep inside, was an absolute and horrible sadness...more than being depressed. Thanks God, in Him I found healing. Getting to know the concepts of toxic shame and guilt, though, has let me understand me...and I am grateful for Irene and many others whoo share this precious information.
Hi Irene!
Is guilt from PTSD or C-PTSD can be consider as toxic as shame?
Because for me, that deep guilt is hard to get rid of 🤷♂️
Yes
That's one thing I've noticed doing the somatic work healing trauma. it's like a dark blob inside my gut that I release up out of my mouth. Weird. I guess that's tasting the rat...its not a one and done with the early childhood healing. I've been in it for two years. Making progress for sure! Some days it hits me like a train. The rage, grief, disgust. I'm glad I finally got sober and started the journey. No turning back.
Amazing hair btw!
I think what you mean is get parents to stop abusing their children, problem solved, it always goes back to the parents, back to back to back to the first parents... they stuffed up badly
Yep, lots and lots of toxic shame. Sometimes it comes out as defensive "stop looking at me!" energy, and I get extremely annoyed with people who can't pick up on it and 'respect my boundaries', or as crippling depression that tears me apart and leaves me hollowed out, empty. If I'm left alone with my own thoughts for long enough I'll start pacing around for a long time, seething with resentment and envy, fantasizing about exacting bloody revenge on the ones responsible for my toxic shame.
Yep
Hola - Hello, greetings from southern spain !! I really benefit from your podcasts Irene . THANK YOU.
I was attempting to homeschool while battling Lyme and multiple miscarriages w postpartum. As I approached my then husband in tears and despair he swiveled in his chair and barked out in deep disgust: " What NOW." I never recovered from that
I’m still a little unclear. It sounds like healing toxic shame is a matter of just sitting with the feeling and not running from it. That’s how you handle negative emotions but toxic shame is not an emotion it’s a belief. Does sitting with the feeling heal it in a way similar to an emotion?
@Cowface, Jen here from Team Lyon. Shame in the way that Irene is talking about it here refers to a physiological response. There may be beliefs layered on top of this, and working with the underlying response is what often leads to transformation.
@@IreneLyon thank you! 🙏
Bad meat
Not quality - sounds familiar
Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom
Never is sunshine n kittens
XOXO XOXO XOXO XOXO
Love n peace from
South Australia 🇦🇺
Is there any connection between healing our toxic shame and thinking about the disgust we felt when our parent used to do something? Does it help?
Key to healing is to recognize things for what they are and then let emotions come and go. Emotions follow from what is seen as true, but emotions rarely if ever are a source of a truth. Understanding that you feel bad about something helps. Feeling bad without understanding the reason doesn't help.
Thanks Irene !
I watched this and I feel weak and sick. Like I will pass out from panic and anxiety
I'm too fearful to watch it
I am disgusted with the idea that it's alright to hand down abuse for any reason. I was subjected to severe verbal and emotional abuse and survived a failed attempt of my Father to kill us all by the age of nine.
The abuse never stopped by either parent. As far as I know, neither of them endured what they put my brother and I through.
It disgusts me that adults can be so cowardly as to abuse their own children - no matter what happened to them. In fact, decent people, in my opinion, would be even more sensitized to how their behaviors affect those more vulnerable than they are. It's zero tolerance for me now.
It took decades for me to feel that utmost disgust and walk away from further abuse because of the love I had for my parents. I say "had" because I really lost that love when I embraced myself, my healing, my protection and care, and came out of denial of the immeasurable impact of what they CHOSE to do. However, I had no problem internalizing self-disgust due to the decades of contempt leveled at me by my own parents. What a relief to put the disgust where it belongs - on the perpetrators.
Well done Kimberly! So good to hear this story of you putting your own truth, authenticity, and health first! It's not easy. - Seth, Team Lyon
@@IreneLyon Thanks Seth and
Team Lyon 🦁 Time to roar 👍
This was great! I did a meditation the other day that lead me to “disgust” - it was the word that came into my head - fear turned to anger, anger to disgust - I then had to apologize to myself for thinking such things & then forgive myself so that “pride” could make an appearance- though it was very small, like saying “pride is still here, underneath all the other crap” but keep going - it was a meditation by Sarah @ Unlock Your Life
Whoa sister. This is so valuable. Thank you.
I am in a CBT therapy since 2 years and the comments in psychology videos are awful.
People only accuse other for their misery.
Yes! You are right. Your parents were bad. Now you are responsible of this. You are an adult.
Seek help instead of finding exterior causes for your problems.
“What is important is not what they made of us, but what we make of what they made of us.” Jean-Paul Sartre
RUclips isn’t good to you unless you are in an active therapy that guide you. Before my therapy I thought I was asperger. Turn out that I am not asperger. You know what I mean?
You’ve come so far Irene. Saw a video of you 6 years ago. You look so much better and younger now. So much more light in your eyes. Keep doing this for us all. Bless you and thank you,. Willing to smell my shit😂. Holding Space for Myself from now on. Miracles can happen. 😢.
Disgust..... thats what i said to a mate today that i felt disgust towards certain members....🤔
Toxic shame - depression, feeling low.... this does not belong to us.... lets learn to give this back to the pathetic owner of these emotions
I wonder if this is for me. This is the first video I have seen on this channel, do I belong here or should I look elsewhere for my solution?
I have zero self esteem, to the point where toxic shame did resonate with me. However, my ”trauma” is going with undiagnosed ADHD and ASD for 35+ years, which have led to an array of other stuff like obesity, depression and anxiety disorders. But no one was ever mean to me or treated me badly. I did all of that to myself, I still do. From at least the first day of school I have been trying to fit in, compared myself with my peers, altered and masked all things I deemed bad, and never ever felt good enough. I today realize that’s a big part of surviving as an undiagnosed autistic girl, but it have created a ”trauma” that I continue to reinforce every day because I believe it. I am disgusted and ashamed with myself.
Hi BeautifulFear, Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm sorry to hear about the suffering you have endured, and continue to live with. I hope you will consider that if you are disgusted and ashamed with yourself, that didn't come from you - you took that information in from others at some point, even if that 'other' was a toxic, insensitive system that wasn't suited to the needs of your unique being.
As far as if this is the right place for you or not, hard to say! I'll encourage you to keep watching videos and feel it out. This is a guide we put together that lists all of what we feel are the most important videos to start with... irenelyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/IL-Field-Guide-to-your-NS.pdf
I wondered what that feeling was.
Every once in a while i feel like something is rising to the surface.
But i always thought it was rage, rather than disgust.
But i feel like it's gonna come out of me in an explosion, and I'm not going to be able to stop it from hitting others.
Although I perceive it as rage, the fear is always that when i explode, it will splatter on everyone, and they'll be covered with this disgusting... bile, and they'll never forgive me for.. spewing it on them.
I'm so scared of this happening, that I always give it a narrow pathway to follow - an addiction (porn).
At least that way, it's only me disgusted with me.
I can survive that because I've done it countless times before.
I fear I can't survive everyone else's disgust though.
I guess that makes me confused about the title of this video.
Disgust has never helped me. It's because im this "disgusting thing", this bad meat (as you put it), that I feel toxic shame.
I do feel that it needs to come out, but the consequence, if there is one, is not MY disgust, but everyone else's.
And being willing to face that is essentially an act of rebellion, like "I don't give a shit if I disgust you."
On a side note, I've read elsewhere that the actual emotion for healing toxic shame is guilt.
If you're made to feel that you have to bury yourself to be tolerated, then displaying yourself out in the open is an act against that conditioning.
You're doing something 'wrong'.
Culture is a factor too. If one is stuck in a culture and a socioeconomic condition and lives more rurally …even with on-line there is no person-centered care by high quality therapists. Please lets advocate for changing culture too. For someone suicidal who is poor they have a 10-30 call with a complete stranger AND/OR meds with a therapist not of their choosing and for only 50 min a week AND/OR (either of the first to often leads to the last option) hospital stay for 2 days where could be easily misdiagnosed and forced medicated even though showing no danger to themselves or others. Even if someone is in danger of hurting themselves it seems pretty ludicrous if they suffered from a lot of early childhood abuse that 50 min a week is going to do much of anything ESPECIALLY if the person has become chronic and problems in their life now to the point where there is no way to catch up, clear up and start from a baseline.