Thoughts on Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown (from a Tekken player)
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- VFDC: virtuafighter....
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![Tekken 4 Retrospective - The Innovative Black Sheep of the Family [4K]](/img/1.gif)
I pray this game leads to a future where we have an awesome Tekken 8 and an awesome VF6
the dream
in about 5 years time
I've always gravitated to Virtua Fighter more then Tekken. I love the side step dodge mechanic in VF. Once you get the hang of it the fights flow really well....the game plays like a kung fu movie. Tekken plays more like a brawler.
The ideal future is seeing all 3D fighters thriving. Tekken 8 and VF6 of course, but also a DOA7 that's as good (or even better) than the classic entries, a Soul Calibur 7 with a perfect balance of great gameplay and awesome customization, and perhaps even...
...a return of Bloody Roar 👏
@@BeeLy1011 Bloody Roar would be awesome. Virtua Fighter is definitely the one I want most. I never liked DOA personally.
I'm not a fighting games guy, i rarely enjoy fighting games, but i absolutely loved how vf5 feels in my hands. Every move feels smooth for some reason. I loved the game.
It has the best animations honestly. 15 years old and it still has the best feeling hits and animations.
@@TheChocolateChamp then you have never played Tekken.
@@s.l5691 of course I have. If you can't see it clearly then you don't have eyes. Perfect example would be how the weigh of the character changes the animations of how the person does the throws. Look at Vanessa's ground and pound then compare that to tekkens. One looks like a person is really getting hit hard an the other is cookie cutter stuff. You can be a fan of both games and call out a flaw.
@@TheChocolateChamp The Tekken moves looks like anime, not like real life. Example: Heelsweep.
It’s the depth of the animations and depth of the gameplay overall.
2:20 love the way u put that.
I myself LOVE TEKKEN for being TEKKEN.
and I LOVE VIRTUA FIGHTER for being VIRTUA FIGHTER. and that is why I Love Both. Also we all need to Keep in mind that HARADA Himself is most likely the BIGGEST VF Fan. He did work with the OG's to make T1 and T2 after all.
THIS!
Seiichi Ishii who was the coordinator & game designer for the first Virtua Fighter would be the director & game designer for the first 2 Tekken games.
@@HyperSonicXtreme yep that's true. Harada took the lead role from T3 onwards after that.
@@HyperSonicXtreme you are right!
@@HyperSonicXtreme Seiichi Ishii came from SEGA AM#2
Please everyone ! This is a community effort and we all need your help bring virtua fighter 6 in the future.
#SaveVF
Playing vf made me realize how much more fun it is to have sidesteps that actually work and characters that don’t have moves that have little to no counterplay (like Paul’s df2, kuni 2,2, party crasher etc.)
playing VF also made me realized that you dont need 20hit combos to have fun in fighting games lol
Playing and learning VF made me realize that you don't need meter and pew pew lasers along with comeback mechanics to have fun. In this game you gonna catch these hands nigga 😂😂😂
A lot of modern fighters have lost the art of fun neutral, vf is not one of these games
Both are insanely great games, I just like the roster better on Virtua Fighter. Also, it's just personal preference but I love that VF is just a relatively grounded hand-to-hand experience, without magic and projectiles and all that stuff.
This is exactly why I love this game.
It's the most realistic, for the most part.
Also, no comeback mechanics.
No V-Triggers, no Ultra Combos, no X-Rays, no Fatal Blows, just pure fighting and skill
It's the most pure and straightforward martial arts videogame, and that gives it tremendous charm.
@@akoyash9964 Tekken's only loss of realism in comparison comes from the funny animal joke characters like Kuma and Gon.
@@GoldStorm07 And the Demons. And the Cyborgs. And the Alien War God. And Heihachi's undead dad. And the teleporting tiger/ghost wombo combo. Oh and there's a vampire now.
@@kategrant2728 What terrible universe do you live in where none of that stuff fits the concept of realism?
Eloquently said, bro! I am a VF guy. And hell yeah matches get stressful. But I love punishing folks for any brain dead moves they make.
"It doesn't look or feel right"
That's how I feel about the way Tekken works, though.
Things in Virtua Fighter just make more sense and it is comforting.
I mean... I love both games and I agree they are different. I don't want them to be the same, but those differences that you mention as possibly being a bad thing about VF are precisely why I like VF. I guess that is the point of the video in the end
took the words out of my mouth! good day sir! he had me for a moment I always be checkin for the backhanded VF disses
Yes, Tekken’s and VF’s approaches seem quite different, even somewhat opposite. VF seems natural for people with higher orderliness trait, while Tekken has more free floating feel to it. Both games appeal to somewhat specific subsets of players very well, I feel.
Have to disagree, a lot of things that visually « should » hit dont in VF and that is kinda disturbing. Same with street fighter
@@ajtemp2000 ay always be open to criticism, looks better on your end and makes it easier to correct misunderstandings people might have if they’ve got the wrong idea about something you care about. Being defensive usually gives off the vibe that whatever criticism was said is true and that it offended you for that reason even if that’s not the case
@@nicolosaxo1574 you're not wrong. Still, both games have very consistent rules. So I'm 100% fine with that. In fact, it is what makes me like them both.
It was Sega that ultimately helped Namco with their Ranking system on the arcades and this explains the customization and rank titles in TK. As a thank you, they designed Brad & Goh. However, yes, I have been playing with killers offline for 7+ years. I turnt out fine and I actually discovered things the vets didn’t even know. Hope you’ll enjoy it.
Got any source on that? That does not make any sense because Goh and Brad were designed and released years before T5 was even a concept.
@@Bilal44 Brad and Goh came out in VF4EVO which is a 2004 game, and Tekken 5 was already in development / coming to arcades the same year. I don’t know if what has been said is true or not but it’s not impossible.
@@THECRIMSONWARRIOR1 Brad and Goh were already completed and released in early/mid(?) 2002, that was even before T4 console release.
T5 came out at the end of 2004 in JPN arcades.
@@Bilal44 Shit then, my bad I was wrong
@@Bilal44 My source is Jose Cruz who was mates with J Wong growing up in arcades, he’s a big Sega nerd, works with arcade boards and was sent a VF3 board from Sega themselves from Japan. He is also close friends with Spooky who he thought everything about Streaming. If it wasn’t for his family, you’d see Cruz/NYC_VF instead of Spooky. He’s got many history and knowing VF is one of them.
I played the hell out of Virtua Fighter 5 on the 360 and was always blown away by the depth and the realism. I lost the game when a friend of mine borrowed it and his cousin stole it.
This channel is so well produced. Hope it picks up and takes off soon!
Thank you!
I've always loved the friendly rivalry of core VF and Tekken communities. As a Tekken/SC player who never got into VF I feel ashamed, VF is the grandfather of 3D fighters. That's why I've been enjoying VF even though it feels hard at times. Here's to hoping we get VF6 and Tekken 8
I always played and enjoyed them all, but found VF games more worthwhile thx to mind games and learning curve.
@@Neonomide You don't find mindgames in Tekken or SC? or enough learning...?
@@taco_sensei I do. VF has more defensive options. Crouch dash fuzzy guards, evade guard throw escapes and throws are the fastest ’guaranteed’ punishes. Layers upon layers of choices in addition to the usual range/poking game.
I’d love this game explained from a kind of Tekken based perspective, I’m sure you have a video in the works Arya! 😉
I would like to see that myself. In my latest video i got a VF5US match that might be interesting for you, there you can see my second day playing VF5US coming straight from Tekken 7 in the TekkenGod ranks facing a top ranked VF player in the world.
Never played the VF series but played Tekken since the first one. These games have a lot in common, i feel i can jump right into VF5US and play descent because of my experience with Tekken
Sidesteps that actually work? Can't throw someone who's mid-strike? No overturned super-moves for every character? I think i just found a perfect 3d fighting game for me.
Not just sidesteps. SUPER sidesteps too!
how did it go
Love Tekken for being Tekken and love Virtua Fighter for being Virtua Fighter. Good way to go about it. They are their own series to the point where comparison is moot.
This is not how the internet works. Pick one, defend it at the cost of your life and call shills and trolls people who like the other one.
@@emanuelefieni5761 Lol!
@@emanuelefieni5761 russian bot
YES. Finally glad someone has more or less hit the nail on the head here about the core differences between the 2 games. In terms of getting ‘mental fatigue’, I’ll say that as your skill w your character increases, you’ll be able to capitalize on your successful reads in much more powerful ways, and your rewards will become greater, which is exhilarating and makes more of your time in-game fun
For example, each character has tools for destroying low punch spam. Once you can do this consistently, every single annoying low punch becomes massive damage for you.
Opponent is being defensive and waiting? Once you’ve mastered your wall combos and best tools for ring out, round will be yours every time.
Fatigue of trying to make reads becomes beasting w huge damage, which is so fun
I have to disagree, sure you can play a bunch of randos without much fatigue, but its really exhausting when you fight in a league or weekly tournament with people on your similar level, as you start to learn their style and they learn yours, each fight becomes really intense, incredibly fun, never enjoyed a fighting game more than VF5, but I remember having my brain fried after a few matches.
Wow, this video is a really good take on what VF is about! Thank you so much
I ♥ Virtua Fighter, it's awesome and by far my favorite fighting game franchise!
VF chads rise up!
The difference between VF and Tekken is VF stays stricter to martial arts form. There is no fantasy element outside of Kage with some of his ninja moves.
The reason for being unable to hit prone players in VF outside of u+P is because of ring outs. If d+KG was able to connect is would push characters outside the ring.
I've always felt that VF feels better. The more tightly structured and regulation functions of moves makes learning by doing (instead of heavy research) much more viable than in Tekken, since there's more consistency in the outcomes of player actions.
Also, condensing the game to 2 attack buttons and a Guard button, with a measure of homogenization for the realistic properties of basic punches and kicks, allows for intuitive base gameplay as well as faster progression to playing with intention and learning the true uniqueness/depth of characters.
Again, making the game more approachable without sacrificing depth. Heck, many say that VF is deeper than Tekken, despite this.
And, yes, while the netcode IS delay-based, everyone's mileage will vary. One person's bad experience is not an indicator that it'll be that way for everybody. So far, I've seen most people say that its the best delay-based netplay, and better than Tekken 7. And, in my personal experience, 3 bar connections have been comparable to maximum connection matches in Tekken 7.
Do keep in mind that the grounded gameplay of VF, with slower animations, relatively generous tech windows (even auto-teching if you hold P+G and a direction), and an input buffer that's very well-balanced all contributes to the game being very playable at 2-6f delay. Especially since Sega figured out a way to make the delay stay consistent and without much jitter, which is more important than low delay with frequent fluctuations.
The relay server solution is actually smart, rather than baffling. Its basically no different than what the FGC has been doing with Parsec on rented servers, but integrated into matchmaking and seems to only be used for long-distance matchups. Could use some fine-tuning, but ot seems to already be more than playable for the majority of people, compared to Tekken's "it's 3" netcode, in my observations.
Overall, I think Virtua Fighter is a better fighting game than Tekken. Tekken just has more casual appeal through the characters, semblance of a story, and presentation.
The surface level of Tekken has drawn people in easier than VF, so they never got the chance to realize that VF is easier to learn and has as much (or more) depth in the long-term, before having formed a bias towards Tekken.
I dont know how anyone from Sega wouldn't appreciate your take on the game including the netcode. Hopefully that gets heard. The game looks like an absolute blast.
Sidestepping in VF is so satisfying!
Why?
You know it really makes sense that VF players are so friendly. If my committed game of choice didn't have a new entry for nearly 15 years and it suddenly gets a breath of new life I'd do everything I could to keep that life coming.
A close friend of mine, and HUGE Tekken head, came over my place, Saturday night, and he had me download the game (it's free with PS Plus) and we had a pretty good time playing it. He practiced for 2 days and thought that he would get the edge over me with ZERO practice or experience. I super casually dabbled with a VF game back on the PS2, I believe it was the PS2. One thing I noticed, from a super, super casual/noob level is that the game feels very button masher friendly.
I used Lau Chan and had great success with him. I didn't know jack ish about the character, so typically whenever we play new fighting games I just stick to basic fighting game fundamentals and experiment with move inputs from other games, trying to learn something on the fly. After a while my friend switched to fast characters and just spammed punch combos, down jab, punch combos, down jab, punch combos, grab, punch combos, grab, etc. I tried to go for low crushing moves, to deal with his annoying down jab, and Lau Chan has a move that LOOKS like it low crushes, up+back+kick, but it wasn't very successful. I feel like it did low crush a few times, but ultimately I kept eating the down jab lol, so maybe it's timing specific?
Either way the game was fun. We probably did 40-50 matches.
I love VF and Tekken. Been a fan of both franchises for years. But if you were to point a gun to my head and tell me to choose one, I'd pick VF every time. VF's strict and polished system based approach really helps prevent you from ever feeling helpless or lost in a match. Once you understand the system and options, literally everything makes sense and flows fluently with every character. Your basic universal tools are reliable and consistent. The same can't be said with Tekken because that game is more character centric rather than system centric by comparison. So you'll have situations where you'll use a basic universal tool to try to punish something, only for it to not work because of the way this particular character recovers from the move you're trying to punish.
I've always preferred VF to Tekken, grew up in the 90's playing both but VF just "feels better" to me. It's more refined, fluid, and i like the button layout more. I also like how it's more aggressive and in your face. It's more offensively focused, you have to constantly be on your toes at all times, it makes the fights more exciting to me.
Agreed. In VF one never feels safe, as all chars have a lot of deadly close range stuff and throws. Stages are deadly as well and require acute awareness of distance and surroundings.
It’s more realistic and has tremendous depth to the gameplay and animations. My favourite fighting series.
Always so well spoken and considerate of all parties involved. Why are you so good??
Great video. Was interesting to hear this from a, primarily, Tekken heavy player.
Ah cheers man :)
Last VF game I played was VF4E all the way back in the PS2. It is so good to see VF return and be popular again.
"Delay-based racism" is the best term I've ever heard for describing this kind of netcode. Here's hoping they can improve the netcode somehow, or hell - maybe they'll see all this love and passion and realize there's money in a VF6. It doesn't need to break the bank. It just needs to be good. It's already a feather in SEGA's cap, one they should be damn proud of.
Delay based phobic
It's probably not as bad aa Smash Wii U.
This is the BEST review I've seen in years. Me myself, I'm more of a hardcore Tekken guy but I've always loved Virtua Fighter for different reasons. I never been ' nice ' at it, but I'm definitely excited to get my skills up
Man. So glad I found your channel. Consistently great content. Awesome video and, like you, I really hope to see VF grow and succeed. I was so happy to see it come back. Here's to the future. Hopefully. Lol
One time I was playing a T7 with a new player and I broke down how you should assume Frames should work and he asked how since I played a couple characters. I had VF dojo next to us and showed him an example of particular lows will always be minus, you’re 10 f punishment is like 12 f punishment in VF and usually both give +5. This was before the frame update of course. The more I became inclined with VF’s system, the more began to disagree with TK’s philosophy on movement, retracking, unseeables and ultimately found it, an insult to my mind as a player.
My problem with Tekken mostly is how little it makes sense. VF is all about making sense most of the time. You lose bc you sucked. It’s an amazing, philosophically rewarding feeling.
@@Neonomide In Tekken, u make 2 or 3 wrong reads... Gets juggled (while feeling helpless)... dead 💀
@@JemXem Yeah, you have to accept it for what it is. If I’m lit and with friends Tekken is great.
VF realism and depth to the gameplay and animations is amazing. My favourite fighting series.
Street fighter had a lost decade also. Hope vf comes back!
I always enjoyed the Tekken series as a casual player, but I would try out Virtua Fighter over the years just to play something different. You explained their differences really well, as it was something I couldn't quite put my finger on. I'm enjoying this more than Tekken 7. The only thing I would like is more content- I always appreciated that Tekken often gives you more fighters and variety (sometimes to a detriment), as well as extra modes If you don't feel like, well, fighting. I would like to see that in VF, but the core gameplay is a blast.
Even tho i prefer Tekken it compairs more to DOA then Tekken. As DOA is more heavily inspired by VF then Tekken is, for example: 1 punch button, 1 kick button and 1 Block button and they are named P, K and G respectively. Throws being faster then strikes and used as punishes(even tho VF has throwbreaks like Tekken) Throws can also not connect with an opponent that is attacking no matter what. Throws can also change animation if you are close to a wall. less rewarding whiff punishment and weaker lows, frame data changes on CH. Characters also have different jab speeds and weightclasses that affect combos similar Okizeme and ground hitting attacks. You can even G cancel to reset strings.
Great video. As an OG VF player who stopped years ago and now main Tekken, I find VF much easier to get the hang of. Something about playing Tekken, arguably the hardest fighter, and then going back to VF which is way more bare bones makes it like I’ve already done all of the hard work. VF is fairly “easy” coming off of Tekken, which is a huge plus for Tekken players. I forgot how much fun VF was and with Tekken 7 being pretty shit for a variety of reasons now… feels good to have something else to play.
First time ever I hear someone compare Tekken and VF that understands BOTH. I am so tired of Tekken-only players calling VF “clunky” without even understanding the game. You fairly described both, and based on your description alone I would pick VF if I were a newcomer. The in-your face, read-reliant mixups that often happen in the closest range feel more like a fight, and a game, to me that Tekken’s spacing ever could.
I think the clunkyness comments are about how it looks compared to modern fighting games, it seems people forget this game came out in the early to mid 2000s.
My 2 cents are that it still looks less clunky than MK11 though lmao
@@taco_sensei The thing is, I don’t see any “modern games” that have less “clunk” than VF. None. People are misidentifying system level restrictions as technical failures, which is what the video correctly identified.
I definitely agree about VF feeling clunky before you understand the system.
When I first played it as a kid I didn’t like it because I grew up on Tekken. But when I got to college, played it again and learned characters, I began to really like it.
It’s now one of my favorite fighting games. Which makes me sad that I can’t play the remaster on Xbox.
Similar feeling here, I grew up with Tekken but ended up loving VF and DOA more
@@BeeLy1011 I actually need to give DOA a try. I downloaded it a while back but didn’t have time to play back then.
@@Kintaku Definitely do. I also grew up with Tekken and didn't play DoA until a little bit later, but these days I find DoA and VF more compelling than Tekken.
@@TrollANIMU DoA is interesting so far. I like the strike, hold, throw system but I definitely have a lot to learn.
I’m finding it hard to know the hold type and timing. Also, early on everyone seems to be mashing so the throw is almost useless.
Currently watching the Rooflemonger tips to help me get better.
@@Kintaku glad to hear you spent some time with DoA!
Taking this opportunity with this new VF release to get into it proper since I've never owned the game prior. Having some similar troubles with the slight differences in inputs. Like normally don't have an issue with block button only like in Soulcalibur, but since VF makes me think of DoA I sometimes catch myself also trying to hold back to block.
Playing Aoi since she has similar reversals to DoA holds but the different input messes me up a bit lol
Same with ukemi, wish it was just G instead of P+K+G
Thank you for your content, it has been reigniting the love I have for both Virtua Fighter and Tekken. I hope we all keep supporting the new VF, it's VERY fun. Subbed.
As a big fan of Virtua Fighter, I’ve been having a lot of fun with Ultimate Showdown and it’s been a blast seeing everyone enjoy the game. The only genuine problem I have is on the business end of things with SEGA; why must the future of arguably my favorite fighting franchise lie with an albeit mediocre port of a decade old game?
I just don’t want Virtua Fighter to die again :(
Edit: Going to add some more thoughts here as well. As far as the netcode situation stands I understand WHY there’s no Rollback / GGPO but I still hate the Google Relay delay based system on offer here. With JP devs and companies there’s often an element of “stick in the muddery” that goes on, and I believe that’s just an element of their business culture, but I do wish that more devs would see the future. Let’s just hope SEGA of America has enough sway to hear the fans out, though I’m unsure considering just how different the levels of popularity for VF are in the west compared to JP.
I've met some great and very helpful players in the VF community! And I've also met some salty dickbags who have nasty words for anyone who implores them to join the calls for rollback or even nastier words for new players who can take them on. Maybe some of them have been coasting on a feeling of superiority for years for being fans of such a "smart" game and are getting a rude shock that people can just walk in from Tekken or elsewhere and hit defender in a week? I really hope they get frustrated and filter out soon, because I'm sure the players with the will to stick around will be the helpful ones I met!
As a long time VF scrub, I'm glad the guys you're talking about are getting their dues. Many people in the small pool of online players on PS3 are high ranked, and would spam moves that are difficult to deal with over and over, getting their rocks off on stuffing lower ranked/new players and sending taunting or hateful messages. I must admit having shaudenfreude seeing those people far outside of the top ranks now - my biggest worry was that the hateful section of the old guard would dissuade new players from exploring.
Luckily, there have been many more newcomers than I ever anticipated. Glad to see new talent coming into the series! Having people able to walk on from another game and reach a high level is a blessing, not something to be salty about.
@@chrislaalo3965 I want to show genuine *love* to the players that wanted to talk movelists and tech with me last week, but yes there have been a load of players above level 20 who won't even rematch. Four level 24s in a row in very tight 5 round matches yesterday that just *bailed* as if anything other than an easy win scares them. Let's get these big fish out of their small pond, and then let's grow this pond!
As a uni student, I prefer VF than Tekken. In VF, learning is way more fun. As u said VF is more system based, so I like tht I can play decently by just learning them. For me, the meat of fighting games is when players trying to outsmart each other. VF is simple to understand yet deep enough to get into. So even at low level, it's really engaging and fun to play with others. While in Tekken, just learning the movement takes time, it's more character specific so need to learn and memorize 50+ characters specifics omg. Playing with others casually is only fun for awhile before u beat them everytime after tht. I like Tekken but it's really not for me currently 😅 I have a lot more important things I need to learn and memorize.
Facttttttttt. Lol you really have to remember all the bs of other characters to really stand a chance. And vf has no come back mechanics
Your description makes me really want to get into Virtua Fighter, because these are things I've wanted in a fighting game for years, and I thought needed to be invented, rather than something that already exists!!
Best review so far
biggest weird thing about tekken relative to VF to me is it feels like "winning neutral" in tekken becomes an all or nothing proposition against many characters. it's either launch/combo/knockdown/oki or back to neutral, being plus on block or hit with both characters standing often doesn't lead to any forced-choice mixup, and attackers/defenders don't need to commit to a risky option all that often because they can always move safely away from it, meanwhile if you're grounded as defender in Tekken you're eating a braindead 50/50 or free hits after a full combo lol
i'd also add that the inherent ambiguities of things like sidestepping and move properties produce too many inconsistencies (once upon a time the worst of these were called namcos) to make it a reasonable ask of most players to learn "the whole game" in tekken, whereas in VF every option is defined and property moves almost always work as intended. there's also a whole encyclopedia's worth of legacy cheese and gimmick move/strings in tekken you need to learn that straight up shouldn't be in the game. VF has many problems of its own, especially this particular iteration, but tekken could probably benefit from paring back the game to something more manageable.
I think the pressure situation in VF was the thing that was hardest to understand in VF after playing 2D fighters. Tekken I think is closer to 2D fighters in that you "capitalize" by comboing them and knocking them down. In VF you have to know how to get something off of a hit that leaves them standing at a slight disadvantage, and at first that's very daunting, but it becomes very cool once a player realizes all the options.
VF feels like advantage/disadvantage is a much larger grey area, while 2D fighters and Tekken seem to be more black and white about it.
@@jimbo5266 yeah momentum shifts fast in VF and being predictable in any way is the quickest way to lose against a decent player
@@HENDRYKISSINDGER Yeah. But I've found, as a noob, when playing VF and Tekken, if there's another noob whose pressure is too hard to handle, I just find a move they never block and repeat it over and over. In Tekken it was Asuka's dashing kick and in VF it was Vannessa's 66K+G.
I think if someone doesn't know how to deal with a certain move, it shows really hard. I remember someone talking about a certain mixup move in Tekken, and saying, if the opponent can't block it, there's no reason to not do it over and over.
The main thing that makes it slightly harder in VF is that for many moves there's no break to let you sit back and collect yourself. If someone spammed crouch jabs in SF, eventually the knockback would give you a breather, but in VF you have to realize, right there and now, what you have to do to counter it.
Tekken is open at low levels but restricted at high levels. VF is restricted at low levels but open at high levels.
Well said bro
And even then, getting past the beginner level is pretty easy because of the intuitive controls and grounded gameplay design with functional consistency and low levels of jank/gimmicky bullcrap.
Tekken is a kangaroo in a fedora fighting a panda in a top hat.
@@sfbloodsister
Both in look and game feel, eh? Lol
It aint no Zafina levels of fun, but VF5 is a welcome breath of fresh air from the stress that is Tekken 7.
I'll obviously go back to Tekken, but imma take my time with this. Eileen stance cancel pressure is one of the most unique and intriguing things I have ever experienced
Looking forward to your analysis video!
As someone who hit a wall in Tekken due to struggling to learn all the specific matchups I'm very excited to try VF!
VF has quite fair matchups on avg. People note Shun vs Taka since it’s pretty much the exception.
@@Neonomide Who has the advantage in the matchup you mentioned? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I'm new to VF (and enjoying it a lot so far!).
@@TheSummoner Shun lacks combo dmg and 1KK low-high kick has no knowdown. I think Taka’s 4PK+P also sobers Shuns drunk points. Having no 14f elbow doesn’t help either. ;-)
@@Neonomide Thank you for answering! The fact that one of Taka's moves sobers Shun up is kind of hilarious honestly. :)
I do enjoy that VF has that degree of move set balance.
There are charter defining moves but every one takes a risk.
There isn't 1 move that covers all of your options or a move that you can just go to.
From a move set design standpoint, VF is awesome.
The funny part is this is just a remaster lol. If swga decided to really make a VF6 it would innovate something in the 3d fighter space again
woah fighting in this game looks awesome i will definetly try it. My brother hates playing tekken for amount of work he has to put to learn the game and he lacks comitment. Maybe he will like virtua fighter more since both of us start fresh
He's going to hate VF even more because the execution in this game is more stringent and less forgiving than modern Tekken.
@@swarthybullxxx VF is very lenient on execution. There are very few combos that require very specific timing, mostly with Akira & Jacky.
VF is more realistic and more deeper gameplay and animations wise. The basis of movement etc is simpler than Tekken but you can’t button mash in it or you will get punished.
I feel that fuzzy guards are this game's equivalent to backdashing. Easier execution wise maybe, but difficult to make practical for a new person I feel
While also being integral to high level play
hard read on fuzzy means you get low thrown or guard broken, it's rare but tekken backdash is almost always safe
@@HENDRYKISSINDGER obviously it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. I was just making an observation in terms of how each game skill-gates to a certain level.
Movement in Tekken makes the game more about whiff punishing and neutral spacing. While fuzzy guards make the game more about covering as many potential options as possible in any scenario.
I like Tekken because I can sometimes just deny the opponent any opportunity to pressure or mix me with superior movement but VF has a more nuanced way of avoiding mixups and pressure by just making there be so many options for defense
@@Kami_Jojo ah ok, thanks for the clarification
VF is like elegant Chess and Tekken is like flashy Checkers.
I've been thinking Tekken was the harder game to learn since VF2 and T3, I have no idea why people are so afraid to get into Virtua Fighter, the only reason I can think of why was between 2012 and now, the future of Virtua Fighter was completely up in the air, but now that it's back, anyone who even likes the idea of 3D fighting games should give it a chance, it's fun, it's satisfying and it's easier and simpler than Tekken.
I think a lot of it is down to the console wars. Tekken 3 was on the Playstation. Virtua Fighter was on the Sega Saturn and then the Dreamcast. That's why VF is more popular in Japan, those consoles were more successful there + better arcade scene.
Virtua Fighter 4 was the first released on a viable system in the west, and Tekken Tag Tournament and Tekken 4 were already out on that system.
Less popular games are almost always seen as harder, I think. I was always surprised by how hard people said KOF was, when I felt SF was harder, but I started with KOF, not SF, so its systems felt natural to me. It's probably the same with VF, where people got more used to Tekken, even if they were noobs, and VF became less approachable because of its differences from Tekken.
this is probably the best comparison overview on both these FGs series I've heard so far
Interesting how you're experienced the online play.
I played couple of online matches like 20 or so and there was only one bad connection I experienced and it was in the middle of a rematch. Otherwise it feels so smooth and responsive. Also the matchmaking is a dream compared to tekken 7 it takes between 20 to 30 seconds to find an opponent in VF no matter which time of day I've played.
And I love the rematch system.
I'm from Germany BTW, and have a beefy Internet connection maybe that's a reason for that. But compared to tekken I rarely have a smooth experience like I had in virtua fighter.
What I really like about VF is that it always feels like if I loose its because I've fucked up and not that the game did something strange or unexpected.
I want to play this so bad but only have a PC. I hope everyone that can, jumps on it and the content rolls out so they see we need that Virtua Fighter 6 with all the bells and whistles.
I am a SoulCalibur, MK, and DoA player... There is something about VF5 that draws me in and I want to learn the systems. And I am wondering how much DoA was inspired by VF. I am learning Jean.
Im loving this gane and can only hope they fix the netcode in the future, or at the very least learn from this and make virtua fighter 6 have the best netcode possible.
Thank you so much for addressing that netcode in your video. I love the game exceptionally but the net code is still just not very good it's got pretty noticeable delay on it online, running it on a PS5 as well
Ethernet is the way to go,LOL
Yep running ethernet all the way 800gb down still doesn't make a difference vs opponent since you're connecting to a server far away too
@@fortunedane650 Welp gotta move closer to the server then baby! LOL
I dont have a PS4 so I cant play this game but everyone I know that has one and plays fighting games, I tell them to play VF5. Even if the online blows and even if its a bit of a messy package all around, this series does not deserve to die. If this spurs development of VF6, then we can scream and beg for rollback netcode but for now we just need to show Sega that the community loves and welcomes VF back.
during PS2 era VF took over Tekken for me...
Movement in the next Tekken needs to be simpler because VF proves you can have depth without making something so basic that difficult.
Tbf, Tekken's skill based movement gives it a unique identity. It doesn't need to adopt VF's mechanics. I say this as a VF guy.
@@NihilisticIdealist It's not that movement can't be complex part of a game (I like VS games as well) but KBD in Tekken is not only hard as shit even for intermediate players but the game doesn't even care to tell you about it and you won't get anywhere without it. It's not about being spoonfed especially in a game as bloated as Tekken 7.
VF tells you about fuzzy guarding which is as important Tekken's movement but here's the thing. The game telling me doesn't make it easier. It just says "Hey, here's an vital aspect of the game, here's how to do it, now go apply it in matches and keep practicing". Even DOA5LR had a ton of depth without movement being a massive hurdle to climb before even dabbling in other mechanics either.
Hell Tekken 7 in particular just discourages movement since it's heavily nerfed and a ton of characters have moves that have built in movement options that are objectively better. It just seems are dumb to me that character like Leroy can just press b+4 and cover backsteps and sidesteps while moving forward. Stuff like makes me wonder if any of the things I learned even matters.
@@tokyobassist I really think some you players need to stop putting so much mileage towards KBD. I hope there was somewhere in the game that can say in big neon letter YOU DONT NEED KBD TO BE GOOD AT TEKKEN. A lot of top players do not KBD, it’s just one aspect of the game. Not an important part.
Sidestep in T7 despite the nerf are completely functional although situational. You don’t blindly sidestep a single move, that’s impractical. It’s better to sidestep a string or if you noticed your opponent has a tendency to use linear moves to start offense ie. jabs, or other linear moves. Whatever you are learning will help provided you put it to good use. For example you claim Leroy b+4 hit sidestep, and backdash then stop doing those moves. Instead watch what your opponent does after a blocked/hit b+4, does he jab pressure, does he mid check, does he throw. Then you react based on that tendency. That’s Tekken at its core. I’ll admit there’s a lot of moves that are very annoying in this game but usually the follow ups after said move tend to have a weakness.
As one of the VF Vets you mentioned thank you soo much for the spot light. Your description of VF was spot on!!
I've been having some good connections, I'm in the UK some have been 2 bar and still really good, lots of people to play with that's a first for me because I never played a fighting game day 1 it's a really good experience for me.
I'm new to VF but I have experienced Shenmue and I remember alot of the moves like crawl cyclone (I understand why it was powerful in Shenmue now), Tom's tornado kick and elbow assault 😁 the nostalgia I get from seeing those moves on VF, I also remember the inputs that are pretty much the same.
I remember playing VF2 on Saturn as a kid. If I remember, the game was more simple but still fun.
I never played Tekken growing up until recently, but I did play Soul Calibur 1 (DC) and Soul Calibur 2 (GCN).
Overall I can appreciate most of the major fighting games.
Another brilliant video Arya! Rapidly becoming my favourite FGC channel! Also what's the last song played in this vid? I need it for my workouts hahaha
I'm playing VF5 for the first time. I'm a Tekken player since T2, so this 3D fighter felt different for me. My first mistakes was too much moving, like side stepping and dashing haha.
After the tutorial, It all makes sense now. Now it's fun.
Old VF fan here, going back to VF1 in the arcades. It was really great hearing the perspective of a Tekken fan. I just wish I had access to this game! Hopefully it comes out on PC at some point soon.
In California I average about 2 bad or okay connections out 10 matches. 8 have been great.
Same in northern Italy, perhaps with an even better ratio. I do feel like there shouldn't be such a variability depending on where you live though.
I have 1 bad connection out every 10. My only really bad connection is when playing with friends in room matches.
How can the game be a communal thing if PC and Xbox players are left out?
My favorite VF stuff: making the Ninja dive on to his own head.
This is out of topic, but Akira in the thumbnail looks so handsome wtf.
I used to play Tekken, but have since retired from it due to frustration. Arya, when you say "It doesn't look or feel right" for VF, that is what I see in Tekken almost all the time lol.
Inconsistent is the word I use most for Tekken and it holds up almost every time, characters that can duck under mids and even some lows (AOP stance cough, cough....lol), certain moves that can be side stepped but not always and not in a consistent manner even when fighting the same character doing the same moves, certain moves that can be stepped from the 1p side but not from the 2p side, certain moves that are "tracking" but not blue spark tracking meaning you might be able to step them with certain chars at certain times, etc...
Heck, I've even had some players step my blue tracking moves! Moves specifically designed to stop a sidestep! Most of the time combos work in Tekken, but like you said, it's char specific so not always. I've dropped my fair share of combos for no reason other than Tekken game mechanics, not because my timing was off or lag, the game simply "decided" to distance my juggled char just a bit farther than normal this time or I miss a random OTG low during a juggle and as such I couldn't finish the wall carry.
I think I heard Tasty Steve say: "there is nothing safe in Tekken, not even a 'guaranteed' move", and my goodness does that speak volumes to how Tekken is designed and plays. It is supremely frustrating to me when a game is designed to be inconsistent. I mean, would you buy a car that sometimes couldn't make a left turn? Would you buy a gaming console or PC that sometimes shut down for no reason other than it's flawed design? Probably not.
At any rate, great content as always Arya, thnks for shedding light on VF and Tekken, the mechanics and how each game feels to you.
it is refreshing to see someome not hating on VF for not being unga bunga flashy colors EVO game whatever.
I really hope this game does well and there can be a possible VF6, hopefully with this game being free on PS Plus a lot of people will try it out and support the game.
Also some of the English voice acting and lines are god tier, El Blaze and Wolf sound like failed superhuman voice actors from the 90s and Lion and Jacky sound like characters from a Sonic game.
My first time playing VF as a Shenmue player, I've been enjoying VF5 Alot playing as Pai Chan, I like how she has alot of tools for defense and offence.
Now I understand why the voice acting is like that in Shenmue lol.
I absolutely love Jacky's "That wasn't your best shot!" win pose. I still don't understand how to get it consistently at the end of the match tho
@@TheSummoner you have to hold a specific directional input at the replay until the win pose plays. Check VFDC for details (under wiki > characters)
@@nc3743 Thank you! I guess what Arya said in this video about the VF community is true! :)
i used to hate this game and was more for the other games. but boy was i very wrong after overcoming the steep learning curve. now, i love this game so much, its brutal and hardcore.
And the fact that everyone is a grappler in this game SOLD IT for me.
I used to work as a games journalist and SEGA are so community focused and generally friendly it's unreal.
me and my friends play Tekken but I have some VF experience while they don't, I told them to try out VF and they asked me about the difference between Tekken and VF and I really couldn't give a good answer to intrigue them about VF but now I got this vid and am gonna share it with them .. thanx Arya for your amazing work.. keep it up man
Superb game. I just wish online play wasn't so sluggish. You can get great at the game in single player or offline 2 player and have to play in a very different way online to compensate for the input delay
"Tekken's long-lost history with Virtua Fighter"
Dead or Alive sobbing in the corner.
Man Virtua fighter is very different. At first glance i was like "Wow! I see why this game and Tekken get compared alot!". Then practiced and played a few matches and understood they are very different beasts lol
Every fighting game should have VF4:Evo style tutorials. It would make us all better people.
Both games are great in their own right. but in my opinion over the years I'm starting to like VF more than Tekken having played VF4 EVO specifically. I just think that the movement and having a guard button makes a much bigger difference to me. I never really felt that Tekken's movement was true 3D movement, It always felt more like a 2D game with sidesteping rather actual 360 movement. VF, Tobal, and Kakuto Chojin are basically my go to 3D fighters these days.
Speaking of Tobal, and Kakuto Chojin I think those games ultimately made me love VF even more since those games also have a guard button which has a lot of use in movement and buffering actions, while also taking some of the things I like in Tekken, like the way Just Frames work, the use of particles, unblockable moves, and more Tekken inspired Moves, Its like a great hybrid of VF, and Tekken put into one system.
I'm just glad that Sega, and AM2 finally brought VF back since 3D fighters have been lacking in the past decade, and this gives me hope for a new VF game.
Everything you're saying about this is making me want to play it!
Except the net code T_T
I stopped playing tekken after getting to red ranks because I just didn't want to learn how to defend against all these cheese moves from the gigantic move lists of each character in the huge character roster.
I love the character move lists and play styles in vf. Love the attack animations, throw animations. A lot of tekken charactets feel the same.there are so many charactets i want to try and learn in vf. I love both tekken and vf. Glad vf is back and i hope the community grows. I hope they improve the netcode, and most importantly when this is released on xbox and pc it is multiplatform.
Tempted to get a PS5 just for this game. Really want to play Tekken and Virtua Fighter back to back. Game looks like one of the best in genre
It really is! All it needs is some better netcode.
I'm really hoping this game does just enough to warrant a sequel. I'm just wary of its international audience considering how it's only on a single platform (for now)
Good review, specially the last part.
Damn it's been a long time since I last agreed so fully with a video. Everything you said is what I (a Tekken player) have been feeling since VF5US came out. Excellent game, with a more reliable yet less natural system, but the online... Just want to add one thing: the ranked battles being locked to best of threes really sucks. Because it takes long for me to find a good game in terms of both connection and skill level (seems like most people either destroy me or are complete beginners on any fighter), then it's three matches and back to the lottery again...
However, infinite rematches invalidates the very meaning and value of ranks, since can farm points out of deathmatches. Especially long sets against players you are better than.
It becomes more about grinding than skill, and only serves to strike the egos of those who play a lot or 'no-life' the game. That's why the 'average skill' ranks in T7 crept up and up over time.
Limiting ranked matchups to tournament-style sets (FT2 or FT3) means that consistent performance is required to rank up, and thus those ranks are actually somewhat relevant/accurate regarding player skill.
@@s_factor_sam I agree, but unfortunately for it to work the online can't be plagued with the issues VF's online is.
@@espelhogamer
I guess that makes sense.
Thing is, not everyone is having problems. Some people have been having better experiences than any other delay-based fighter. I personally know someone who got matched up against a Finland player, from Texas, and it was very playable.
@@s_factor_sam honestly infinite rematch makes a lot of sense for Tekken. The game is already a huge knowledge check. It usually takes more than a match a two to not only get used to a character moves but also pick up on a players flowchart and tendency. One of the things that got me good at match up knowledge in Tekken is having option to rematch non stop. Those are usually the best set, especially when both players are of similar skill and ranks. It can go on for about 10 matches or so.
I feel VF5 could benefit from this since the game can also be heavy in the match up knowledge department. Take Lei Fei for example, idk wtf that guy is doing. I rarely run into him and two matches just ain’t enough for me pick up anything from his stances and knowing what options he has. Sure I can lab him but I’ve always used Tekken’s infinite rematch as kind of a match up knowledge trainer. The feature for sure had made me a better Tekken player. It would only benefit VF if players can have more chance to go against other players. Especially considering the game does not have a huge player base. Finding another match can sometimes take more than 5 mns even longer sometimes. Infinite rematch option will benefit VF way more as opposed to hurting it.
Very good review ! That's was so fun to see you level up during the stream
To me, the biggest problem that this game has other than the delay-based netcode, is how you create rooms to play with your friends. And please, if someone knows how to solve it just answer this comment, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
My story is this:
I've never played Virtua Fighter, so I was really excited to play it with a friend that knows the basics of the game. But the whole online system is simply awful. At first, he said: "Ok, I created a room, now I'm gonna invite you". There's no invite button. I try to search the room on my own, but there are way too many filters to choose. And even with the correct ones, I couldn't find my friend. So I say "Let's just put a password" so we will find each other way easier. Guess what happened: even with a password I couldn't find him because I still needed to use the filters, reroll the search many times and only then I managed to find him.
We lost approximately 20 minutes doing this and trying to figure out how to play 1vs1. I'm sorry to say this, but I'm no competitive player and I don't care playing against opponents way stronger than me. I just wanted to meet my friends and having fun, and Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown needed more options because it feels old in the online department.
I can't invite my friends for a quick match? Why?
I need to find on my own the room that my friend created? Why?
There's delay-based netcode? Why?
Man, that's crazy to hear about your online experience. I'm in the western part of the US and I've had nearly the opposite experience. I was just happy to be able to play my friends without delay but it exceeded my expectations. I do hope they find a way to improve the experience for everybody or find a way to do rollback at some point.
Voice from behind the curtain: The netcode updaten were NOT on the way
I picked this game up as a distraction from street fighter 5, and honestly... Aoi is sooooo amazing! This game needs to thrive!
I just wish it was Virtual Fighter 3 (and on PC xD) VF3 was soooo far ahead of its time its crazy, was basicly similar to Tekken 4 in graphics and mechanics but during the time Tekken 2 just dropped, just crazy.
VF is now stuck in that 5 state for nearly 2 decades :D
“Feel” is absolutely huge for me in a character. In Tekken, landing big hits with Miguel or Negan feels great, and it’s a shame I haven’t found an equivalent in Virtua Fighter.
Have you tried Jean? His charged moves and his 66 moves feel great imo
That's definitely an issue for me as well. Tekken characters feel like they have weight and force behind their hits, and I don't get the same feeling from VF.
I actually have the opposite experience. As an Akira player, and Tekken hater, I've had a hard time finding a powerful fighter in Tekken, that feels as good. I think it's just where you started. I ended up finally giving Tekken a chance with Tag 2, and ended up falling in love with Lei and Bob, and have been a big fan since. Years wasted of pointless hating, for the sake of pride.
At first I felt like this too, but as I played more and got used to VF's "weight"... I think Tekken got a bit lighter, to be honest. Thinking about it, it's more about how the opponent feels rather than your character: In Tekken your hits are powerful but the other character feels like a meatbag, while in VF it feels like you're hitting someone with actual bones. (I don't want to shit on Tekken here, I'm a big fan and it's by far my favorite of the two)
I definitely advise Akira and Jean. They have crunchy, screen-shaking attacks.
Akira shakes the screen on whiff, with at least one move.
Ranking system, costumized characters are first introduced in VF4. And first in fighting games
VF is played more by the Japanese. So, it is a blow to Harada that VF is more prominent in Japan.
But Harada is a big VF fan too
Harada is telling people to play VF during an interview