Wait, so the tithing mandate is in Duteronomy? Doesn't that make it part of the Old Testament covenant that was overturned when Jesus died on the cross?
I don't know anything about Dave Ramsey beyond what this guy just told me but this quip didn't logically address Ramsey's concern. Ramsey didn't see social security as income since people put more of their income into it then they'll get out. That the Israelites collected a tithe and used it for social security has no bearing on Ramsey's question as to whether or not SS is income, and therefore tithable as such. It seems the guy making the video had a political point to make that resulted in a non sequitur.
I grew up Mormon where pretty much everyone pays 10% or more of what they make. Boy when i grew up and left the church and found out they were a multi billionaire church i was so mad. I remember people in my congregation who really struggled to put food on the table but they still gave that 10% every month
Yet unlike many churches there are no paid clergy and the majority of money goes to building & maintaining Church buildings worldwide, charity work and missionary efforts, education etc. Not saying they are perfect but there are far FAR worse examples of Religious institutions exploiting donations and enriching individuals.
@@SportPhilosophies it would be nice if they published their financials for transparency. That way instead of having faith that the money was spent wisely you could just see where it went.
Tithing is not the churches sole source of income. There are all sorts of avenues through which a 401c3 can finance their cause… For example… Deseret Book is a commercial enterprise, and while it is owned by an influential Mormon family, it is not owned by the church directly. Because Deseret Book publishes and/or distributes so much promotional material for the church, they are eligible for tax free grants from the church. And The family that owns Deseret Book can pay tax deductible “tithing” to the church…. Give and take. Heber J Grant was the President/Prophet that set that one up, selling the business to the man that married one of his daughters. I could go on, but that would be a waste of time. Do with your money what you will.
It’s a temple tax under the Old Covenant, not a mandate for contemporary Christians. We are called to be cheerful and gracious givers, givers who exceed a set amount. Giving unconditionally to the oppressed and needy first. Modern Evangelicals have turned this ancient practice into a grift, a way to fund their turgid megachurches and overpaid “pastors.” Thanks for this rational presentation.
When the laws were given, the nation of Isreal were a theocratic Bronze-Age society wandering in the desert. A portion of the nation, the tribe of Levi was portioned off to do religious and governing duties. We call those taxes today, because it's the government that does the administrative portion of what the Levittes did. We all grew up with the "pay to Caesar what is owed to Caesar and pay to God what is owed to God' but let's face it, the Christian faith is terrible at explaining what that means. If the parable had any logical semblance, the next question would have been the disciples asking Jesus for clarification if they should be paying 20%, 10 to God and 10 to Caesar. If anything, since the Church serves no significant administrative purpose in this modern age, the tithe should be re-apportioned accordingly....
@@stuntmonkey00 In context, the pay to ceasar what is owed to ceasar is jesus telling the pharisees to pay their taxes while evading their blasphemy allegations, whil give to god what is his due means your mind and soul, which, in christian doctrine, god made.
@@mvalthegamer2450 So, the pharisees asked Jesus if they should pay Roman taxes, and Jesus said 'yes', but he felt people expected a little more from him and added some unnecessary words. Thankfully you did see through it.
@@mvalthegamer2450 Well yes; we all learned that as the clever way of how Jesus evaded a trap question, but as i said, it's written as a work of literature. Story-wise, the episode ends there, roll credits. But if that happened as it would in actual life, his disciples would have been a) Great answer, that showed them! b) But wait, does that mean....
if tithes are, at least in part, supposed to support the poor then if someone is struggling to make ends meet they should be getting some of that tithe money given to them to support them in their hardship. Not desperately trying to negotiate down how much they have to pay the church
The problem is that these megachurches have a very liberal definition of what counts as helping the poor. Preaching or giving out pamphlets can count as “helping the poor” because they’re helping “spiritually.” Or it can be giving merch with phone numbers and websites. Because hey, you’re “giving to the poor.” Nobody said you’re giving direct cash to the poor. This is also how secular high-overhead scam charities work, like Kids Wish.
I go to a pentecostal church that does tithing and let me tell you for months I have not tithed because I knew money was not asked for by God to the israelites. I believe by choice and by grace we give money to support the needy in the church and to help the poor outside of the church.
@@jcavs9847 I would if the commandment hath said give your tithe meant for the levites, widows,poor and strangers as Money for Pastors and for the "church". Mind you Church is not the physical building we use to gather but we are. Also what storehouse we have today to put our animals, fruits,wine and oil? I do agree that we should tithe just as our father Jacob in Gen 28:20-22 By that I mean voluntary, I am not saying you should vow as he vowed but as you desire to, do. Some people think if they pay their tithes ie give up their money they will be blessed. It is good to gender kindness with your money. However the moment you show off and boast giving your money to God instead of doing it in secret with sincerity of heart and obedience to his awe; is a moment I can not take delight in. I have heard people said we are not under the law but bring up Malachi 3:8-12 to support today's tithing. I understand your argument but you have to gather more than just what you presented in order to persuade believers like me on modern tithing.
For many years I faithfully gave 10% of my and my wife' salaries to the church until I woke up and discovered the truth, I am not mad, just sad it took me this long, but indeed the truth set us free.
One thing that gets left out of the conversation about tithing is that the examples of one-tenth given are not total income but specific forms of income. The bits in Levicitus and Deuteronomy are referring to income from livestock and agriculture, something you'd really only have as a landowner and not the servant of a landowner, tenant farmer, or someone selling their labor. Exodus 30 seems to set a minimum of a half-shekel a year (like, a half day's minimum wage a year).
In America. Remember the rest of the world? Hi, it's us and we don't depend heavily on tips and still call ourselves a first world country. But you enjoy your freedom.
sadly true, too often. One must use one's discretion. There are churches where tithes buy the pastor a personal jet, and then there are churches which, upon getting $3000, immediately decides to use $1500 of it to fund a local non-profit's annual day of volunteer home and yard work for seniors and those in poverty, another $500 to a local outreach for debit cards to help low-income and homeless people buy gasoline, and earmark the remaining $1000 for future community opportunities, similar to the opportunity they took 3 months before to provide a cabinet to the food pantry at a local school to deter vermin. If a church can't produce minutes and financial reports telling you where the money is going, don't give to them.
From where I live, the local catholic parish specifies the purpose for the monetary collection every time they do one and giving is only voluntary. And they are also transparent with how much money they collect and what did they spend it on. I wish all churches, catholic or not, could do the same.
I don't have an issue with tithing as a concept itself; if you're able to give money regularly to those less fortunate without causing yourself financial difficulties, then I think that's great. Doing it as part of an organised group could offer efficiencies, assuming they use the money in good faith. I don't even have a blanket issue with it going to the church; if someone considers their church to be a valuable community space and it, for example, needs major repairs then I don't see an issue with those who are able to contributing towards its upkeep via tithing. What I take issue with is religious groups using it as a cudgel by making people feel they have to give when they can't afford it, give more than is reasonable, gatekeeping spiritual access (i.e. the Mormons), and/or using it to benefit only the religious group rather than the needy. I wish we could always trust religious groups to manage tithing responsibly, but unfortunately I don't think we can. 😓
Exactly. Despite being an atheist I give around 10-15% of my income to non-profits, no doubt thanks to Peter Singer. It should be a moral obligation to those of high stature, but not for a poor woman suffering from debt.
I only trust groups I'm a member of. I get to vote on the budget every year and see how that's spent. I actually think our pastor is severely underpaid for a leadership position.
nice essay buddy. turns out no one cares about what you think about tithing. You're not a scholar, nor a prophet, nor a god. Why did you comment this? Schizophrenic?
It's mostly about practicality. Some OT laws simply do not make any sense in the modern context and could not be applied even if you tried. Others can still be relevant, because churches need money to support themselves and the ministries they operate, so using Bibical precedent in order to come up with a system to support your church is understandable.
The Mosaic covenant with its stipulations was made with the people of Israel, no one else. According to the NT, the stipulations of the Mosaic covenant no longer apply under the new covenant, although many Jewish Christians continued to practise them. We can seek to learn from what wisdom they embody, but we've moved on a long way since then. You would need to provide a sound reason for following any of them, not the other way around.
the law of the old testament was the seed , the vector for the law of grace instituted by Christ . There are multiples kinds of law in the old testament, ranging from moral laws (you have to follow them since it's a question of morality ) and ceremonial laws , i think there's also third type named state laws but i'm not sure . The two latter categories have been fulfillled in Christ , we don't have to follow them .
@@planteruines5619 The idea of categories of laws is not found in the Bible. It's all or nothing. Categorization was invented to justify imposing certain rules but offers no way of distinguishing which rules are what category. The stipulation of the new covenant is the new commandment John 13.34.
From what I understand, tithing in the Catholic world depends on where you are. I recently moved from one very catholic nation to another and was surprised that I now had to pay tithing. Emphasis on "had to", even though I'm an atheist and never visited a church here. The mistake was not to leave officially. Apparently there are laws on the books that give recognised churches access to some government records and the right to enforce their taxes. I had to unregister with the government so I would be exempt from tithing. Got a very sad letter from the catholic church right after, and just recently another one "We were sad to see you go, but since it's been a while, maybe you would like to come back?". Like some spiritual netflix or something, that is trying to reel me back in. Really left a bad taste in my mouth the whole thing.
@@brenateviReligion is not a business, nor a service. It's a way of life. Christians are encouraged to be generous and practice giving as part of their day to day life, and this includes giving in order to support your local church, which most of the time only manages to support itself through the donations of the congregation.
Torah tithes: - first fruits, to the temple (percentage not specified), - offering to the priests /kohanim (2%), - first tithe, to the levites (10%), - second tithe, to the temple (10%), - poor tithe, to be given to poor people (10%). Agricultural commandments to leave a part of produce to the poor and strangers: - corners of the fields (percentage not specified, but jewish tradition says at least 2% of the crops), - gleanings (percentage not specified), - forgotten sheaves (percentage not specified), - grapes and produce not ripe at the time of harvest, - grape and produce which falls down during the harvest. Sabbath year /shmita, which is every seventh year: - no agriculture is to be practiced, and all the produce which grows on its own is for the poor and strangers, one is to eat only from stored foods, - on this year also all debts are to be forgiven. Jubilee year, which is after seven sabbath years, ie every 50 years: - all slaves, captives, and prisoners are to be liberated, - land redistribution, - no agriculture on this year either (so along with the seventh sabbath year that means two consecutive years of no agriculture), but what grows on it's own can be eaten by anyone. In the NT, John the Baptist and Jesus go much further and say you should give away your wealth, and not have more than you need. According to Jesus you can't get saved unless you do that. Weird how Evangelicals and other conservative Christians ignore all of this.
One of the few intellectual responses I've ever seen with very poignant references. People are too stuck in their institutionalized mentality of supporting the 'church' even though the church isn't a building or an organization.
A bronze-age society which could survive just straight up doing no agriculture every seventh year must have been incredibly wealthy. Do we know from archeology if this law was actually followed in practice?
By the power invested in me by the cult I have started and by the authority which lies in the power of my wearing of many long thobes, scarfs, keffiyahs, and vestments I pronounce the allowance of you to remove moneys out of the offerings according to the losses you incur during your trading of stocks and bonds.
Three religious leaders, ( I'm not specifying which religions ), were talking about how they deal with the tithing in the plate each week. The first said " I draw a circle on the floor, about 6 inches. I then throw the money into the air, the money in the circle goes to me, the rest to god." The 2nd said " I also draw the circle and throw the money but the money in the circle goes to god, the rest to me. " The 3rd said " I throw the money in the air. What god wants he keeps."
Something consistent in most branches of the Abrahamic faiths is the idea that no law supersedes one's health. Someone in the States making $2000 a month is very far below the poverty line, and I would say that giving when you already don't have enough for yourself and your family is not mandatory because it endangers your health. Giving that $200 might as well be the woman giving her two coins to the temple for how much a tithe is worth on poverty. I would also argue that the same applies to secular law and that necessities should be freely given to all, but that's another story.
God doesn't need money, but the people working within the various ministries within churches like charities and so on also need money to sustain themselves somehow. God doesn't need our money, no, but God likes people to be generous and willing to support each other.
The Old Testament gave a percentage that was to be given, 10%. The New Testament says to give based on your heart. It also doesn't say it must be given to the church (as in the church you attend) sense churches back in the day were far more nebulous so giving could be more abstract.
Dave Ramsey has his figures wrong for FICA/SSI. If you work consistently for 43 years and start at $15 minimum wage and get a 3% raise every year, then you will contribute $160K in FICA payment (6% of wages). Your employer will contribute the same amount. So if you get $1500 per month in SSI, you have almost 9 years of payments discounting annual COLA adjustments, on your contributions and an additional 9 years on your employer's contributions. The money in the Social Security Trust Fund also grows annually, but slower than the stock market. So you have depleted your "account" at age 81 or so (65 + 16). At age 65, you have a reasonable expectation of living an additional 16 years. This is a simplification of the realities of social security. The social security system was set up to address the problem of elder poverty. I personally believe that SSI/SSDI is income and that a portion of that gross income should be directed to charities, non profits, and churches. Same for RMD from IRA's and 401K's.
Please do not use "SSI" when you mean "Social Security benefits". It drives me crazy as a tax practitioner when people do this.There is a government program called "Supplemental Security Income" that has "SSI" as an acronym and is completely separate from Social Security. At least at my current job there are no clients on (the actual) SSI, but it was very common when I was a volunteer for doing poor people's taxes. Part of my training for that was to make sure to understand the difference between the two, because we knew there would be people who used "SSI" when meaning "Social Security benefits", because that's just what has for some reason worked its way into society. I'm doing my best to try to stop people from doing it whenever I see it happen.
I was brought up a Christian, had a painful breakup at age 18, spent 20+ years as a convinced materialist, and now.... Well, I don't self-identify as "new age", but it the term captures the gist of it. During all that, I guess my attitude has been to give according to my means. I never had much money, so I could only donate pittance to charity. Like, I donated a pittance to the charity supported by this fundraiser. But hey, it's something. And I'm thinking that the woman in the example, just at the beginning should be the recipient of charity, not the donor. If we expect the poor to give to charity, who the heck are they suppose to support? And the pastor in that segment. As I said, I don't think I can rightly call myself Christian nowadays. But I can't help thinking. "When Josh himself was about the be tortured to death, he healed the ear of the guy coming to take him away. But when he ran into people like YOU, he responded with physical assault."
Thanks for these videos! I appreciate the effort and scholarship that goes into each one and I love how you teach religion without judgement or taking sides. It has become part of my Sunday morning routine to watch your channel.
Three priest are talking about tithes and how they handle the money. One says he draws a line on the floor and throws the money in the air , to the heavens. What lands on one side is god’s ,what lands on the other is the priest’s. The second priest says he does much the same thing except he draws a small circle and stands in the middle. In the circle his, out side god’s. The third priest says he too throws the money in the air. “God takes what he wants . The rest is mine.”😂
In college, my Asian American Christian friends would ponder the question of tithing weekend casino winnings. They abandoned that abhorrent vice, by the way, and they're all deacons and elders now.
Given the Christian "explanation" that the "moral" laws of the OT continue but the "ritual" ones don't, how does tithing as an obligation to the church survive? It seems like that should squarely fall into the "ritual" camp.
The idea that "tithing" applies to a Christian church is a modern innovation. I don't think there is any evidence from the New Testament or early Christian history that it was applied to donations to churches, or really any giving. Unfortunately, it has been jumped on as a fund-raising tool by greedy pastors with way too much power and influence, taking advantage of the unquestioning obedience of their audiences.
you're right , good reasoning . you can sort out denominations to see their fruits with that criteria and which one follow their theology more consistently. After all , if one of them is right , well they have to be consistant in their explanation.
It's another way to give what little you have to the capitalist machine. If you're going to give, give your time, love and any spare cash to people who actually need and deserve it. Not people who just need another Ferrari.
Mark - I am surprised that you did not mention Malachi 3:10, which I have understood to be the only verse in any part of the Bible which seems to say that tithing is a way to “prove” God and God’s blessings. Perhaps unpacking Malachi 3:10 is a topic for another video?
Greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself and love your God. Giving is to come from a jouful heart. God has no desire of a resentful giver.
Regarding tithing animals: It is worth noting that sacrifices were always MALE animals, not because males were holier but because you only needed one or two rams to keep increasing the flock. It is reasonable to assume that tithe animals were likewise extraneous males and would pose no real burden on the owner.
Philippians 4:8 - "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things."
Give Directly sounds like follows UBI type of thing. I can dig the aspect of not infantalizing the recipients, if we believe that people are overall rational beings who make everyday decisions according to what will bring them the most benefit in the long-term, then we should give without condition.
Your taxation in any welfare state is more than enough of a tithe for assisting the poor. The separation of church and state isn't really accounted for.
As a young teen i would go to church on sunday to be with a couple of my friends. We all would give $5 ea. As i grew up i notice the pastor driving a better car then some of the people at this church. For a church being tax exempt and still asking this is what wrong people in America are paying close to 50% in taxes already. Wake up people this religious stuff is all fancy! Save your money and take care of you family and loves.
I have been a part of different churches or philosophical organizations, which have basically encouraged voluntary tithing, but with different teachings about the concept, reasons why, etc. Harmonizing the various teachings, here’s what I’ve come up with myself - tithing is a way to compensate God and higher beings (angels, etc.) as a way to express gratitude for our very existence. I tithe 10% of my gross income as a way to put God first financially. I pretty much tithe on all cash received, including money paid back to me, but I don’t tithe on most dividends or gains unless I receive those dividends or gains as cash in my pocket. I generally don’t tithe on interest that’s compounding, unless I were to withdraw or cash out the fund, then I would tithe on the whole cash amount received (principal plus interest). If I receive a tax refund, I would tithe 10% on that. I do tithe on my gross of a pension I have started receiving, but I’m not sure how I would handle Social Security. I guess I would probably tithe on my gross Social Security payments received? It is also my experience that the practice of tithing, ironically, does seem to bring about increased financial blessings and prosperity for me personally, at least in my opinion and experience, not magically of course, but in the way of prospering ideas or ways to generate even more prosperity.
Give cause you WANT TO, and if you appreciate God’s Blessings!!!! Not cause you HAVE TO!!!!! God won’t FORCE YOU!!!!!:/ ……For God loves a Cheerful giver!!!!;);) -2 Corinth 9:7
I still find it strange that the reality of how the bible came together is not more widely known and taught. The new testament is a small and limited, chosen collection of what were considered "Christian" writings from the time. The writings were chosen by a select group of high-ranking people and they would have brought their own biases and socio-cultural leanings when deciding what books qualified.
In Islam, around 2.7% yearly, if you can afford it and if it has already been saved for more than a year. You can see Saudi Arabia as the highest donation percentage of GDP.
In my mind, its about not letting money rule ones heart and giving to others. Certainly I see the practice as a way to support those in the community and abroad. Do that woman ramsey was talking to, I feel shouldn't feel any obligation to donate.
QUESTION: governance at the time was supported by these tithes (and conquest). Governance WAS religion. Modern government saw the charity work, education, and social security the various religions managed - and wanted it. Today, therefore, since government’s are mostly separate from religions and have replaced most of the fictions, is tithing to be considered PAID by taxes?
I live in Utah and there is a stark distinction of Christian and non Christians. The money in the church here goes to those are in their group and only a fraction seems to trickle down to those actually in need.
Actually over 2 billion per year goes towards humanitarian aid and needs globally and those in need such as homeless (that’s why California) and other states will send them to Utah
That’s strange, I also live in Utah and see non Mormons in general benefiting from the LDS charitable food banks and systems of support far more than members. There is a reason homeless from all over the US descend on Utah and SLC. The Church pours hundreds of millions into aid throughout the world, with most of it benefiting non members, I even saw it in England where I grew up. A country where next to no one is Mormon.
@@SportPhilosophies exactly, I would just end with that personal experience is nice however data and reliable information is more important since personal experience is very limited and much more faulty because of its inherent limitation and biases such as larger entity has money= greedy corrupt corporation where the top benifits and those in need do not which is not the case in the lds church based off of the data
@@tomabros9008 True, data does show how and where LDS money is spent, especially in places like UK and Canada where financial statements are fully disclosed. I never truly expect my personal experiences alone to prove anything, I simply hope they may counter a popular Utah/US perspective that doesn't take into account worldwide charity of the Church in countries where often less than 1% are members.
10:56 It is interesting that tithing isn't mentioned in Exodus at all, considering Exodus usually contains the more primitive version of the Mosaic law. Adding to this that in 8:27 you mentioned it appears in the "King's Sentence" as one of the burdens a king will impose, perhaps tithing was only invented as a custom once the Temple was built (this also explains why it is mentioned in Jacob's dream story, the people saw it as a custom that needed to be explained with a just-so story, not a divine command)... 15:47 This doesn't necessarily hint at a pre-Jerusalem custom, as Amos was an Israelite prophet, and Bethel was an Israelite city, while Jerusalem was a Judaite city. In 1Kings 12:26-30 it states that Jeroboam established the Bethel worship as part of the saparation from Jerusalem...
Could there please be a video explaining why there were more polytheistic religions back in the day regardless of the country of origin ( Aztec, Egyptian, Chinese...) ? And obviously, more monotheistic religions as some point in time? Are religions trends ? Because There was less communication between people ? .. Thank you very much
Monotheism arose from nationalist propaganda of Biblical authors to prevent Israelites from worshiping national deities of neighbouring nations. Yahweh was originally one of the 70 sons of supreme god El.
Thanks for sharing such valuable information! Just a quick off-topic question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
Tithing is a demand under the Old Covenant, not a law for the NT Church. No one in the Church taught tithing until the unauthorized Pentarchy merged with the Roman State, and various bishops started carrying out municipal as well as religious functions. Dave is a master of marketing, who made his BILLION on regurgitating post-bankruptcy education as "Christian financial principles," which he sells primarily as workshops for churches. His foot in the doors of these churches is the fact that his $1-300 dollar 'common sense program,' that tells you to spend less than you make and save some money, also tells Christians that tithing is required by God, (though the Apostles never taught in once in the NT). This increases the net income of the churches, which is why they overlook their pastoral roles to let a wolf through the door, rather than teaching common sense themselves. It's a scam, and both he and the churches that allow it should be ashamed of themselves.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter,[c] not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks[d] one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
@@KarmasAB123 Acts 15, Galatians, Collossians 2, Hebrews, and keep your judaizing to yourself. You can follow the covenant of Death to death if you'd like; I'll be following the covenant of life unto life.
1/60 per month is actually 22% per annum. You need to get a better credit card if you think that rate is attractive! (1 + 1/60)^12 = 1.2194 or .2194 increase or 22% interest per year
The tithing law was made for the Temple and the Levite class. The Temple is gone. Pastors and megachurches hang on to the tithing law because it's how they fund their grift. I can't even count the amount of horseshit sermons that condemns those that don't give. In the New Testament, you are exhorted to give as much as you want or can.
@@smileytownSF Wow! You believe anyone with the title of "pastor" should be given a blind eye, as it is impossible for them to grift! Any position of authority has been and will be abused. Don't be naiive.
It's interesting how tithing from earned wages carries no biblical precedent yet it's frequently presented as a biblical mandate. Nowhere in the Bible were Gentiles commanded to tithe at all and nowhere in the Bible were Israelites commanded to tithe from their monetary earnings. I agree with Dave on a lot of things. Just not his interpretation of biblical tithing.
The idea, to my understanding, is to give what you can to those who requires it I mean, at that time there werent even Churches, you can't tell me at that time the "almighty" God would require humans to give this 1 random facility money while those that actually deserves it just gets ignored because they don't go to church
The conservative politics don't really play in. You get out less than you pay in, that is just a fact regardless of what you think of the ss program, so his reasoning is only based on how you define income, not at all on politics.
Generous and sacrificial giving (of time, love, attention, not just money) is most certainly the expectation of the NT, regardless of the percent. That Jesus commended the poor woman for giving to the temple treasury, and the examples of Acts where money is given to the fledgling Jesus movement both support the giving to one's congregation and generally to the Church. The 1 Cor 9 text is even more explicit-ministers deserve to be paid. This grates at us cause we have all heard the horror stories of greed and corruption. But being familiar with this world (of pastors and pastoring) I can assure you that the vast majority of pastors are people who don't make it on the news, who have small churches so you never hear about them, but are faithful and down to earth folk, typically working way more than 40 hrs/week, always on call, and paid a livable but humble wage. The only reason this is hard to believe for some is because you hear all the time about the 1% pastors like Kreflo Dollar and Joel Osteen, but have probably never met any of the local pastors at all those tiny churches you drive past every day (not to mention that most overhead at most churches is significantly bigger than the pastor's salary).
@@ryankaufman3590 Jesus did not commend the woman to pay the temple , he praised her (and scolded the temple from living off widows ) . oh wait , my bad .
@planteruines5619 Came down here to say this. IIRC, the widow giving out of poverty is literally the verse before Jesus scolds the temple for living off of widows and orphans, but the two verses are in different chapters (chapter demarcations didn't exist when the text was written). Meaning that for some reason, someone thought these two extremely related verses belonged in separate chapters, which seems fishy to me.
@@alicia1463 yes , the partitions of the Bible into chapter and verses was made much much later than their first written form . For exemple the first account of Genesis doesn't fit the first chapter . the books however are true units . the partition is more to be used as a way to indicate a specific portion of the text than to regroup the stories inside a book (even if they roughly follow that ) . as all humans tools it has its limits .
No. Give to those in need who YOU choose to give it. No coercion as the NT clearly teaches. Tithing is the biggest wealth transfer scam ever invented. God loves and blesses us because we bless others less fortunate and love HIM ALONE as our creator and God. 1st and greatest commandment.
People who were not jews were never mandated to pay tithes. Jesus said the woman who gave one coin gave more than everyone else because she gave out of her poverty. And Paul the apostle never took up tithes he took up offerings. Offerings are only giving what you feel like giving and it's not an obligation. Tithing is not really a Christian thing it's a Jewish thing.
Hello 👋🏽 fellow Kenyan.. My eyes water when i remember the tithes, offerings, altar sacrifices etc that make pastors worth hundreds of millions. Its a good faith-based tool that's misused by many religious leaders
No. Jesus says to give up everything. Multiple times. He states you cannot have wealth and worship God. He says his followers will have left everything behind. He specifically states that on the day of judgement, he will send to hell the people who do not feed the hungry or help the sick. It’s what HE did, too. The myths say he fed people and healed them and never once did he say “yeah, but you’re just a lamp lighter, that’s not a REAL job.”
1:02 That translation is wrong though, the original word means "yield" and exclusively refers to crops (which is obvious from context, because even the translation here says "of thy seed"). Society at biblical times was an agrarian society and it shows!
And BTW, I don't think social security should count as income at all, because it is a government handout, and refers to the commandments to let the poor harvest from your own field (known as the plucking [לֶקֶט /léqet/], the forgetting [שִׁכְחָה /šixəẖá/] and the edge [פְּאָה /pəá/])...
13.38 I disagree. I do not see any contradiction, the tithe belongs to God and God wants it to be spent on his priests, the poor, the orphans and on feasts to celebrate his servants. Although I do recognise that if the text does not stipulate the proper way of distributing the tithe amongs the afformentioned groups, then I am wrong.
While this is interesting, I'll have to rewatch, but I don't think this video goes into how (or if at all) Old Testament Tithing was even intended to relate to giving financially to the church in the New Testament.
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Is this the platform talked about in Cold Fusion?
Hi there, ReligionForBreakfast. Can you please make a video on Balinese Hinduism and how it differs from Hinduism in India. Thank you very much.
Wait, so the tithing mandate is in Duteronomy? Doesn't that make it part of the Old Testament covenant that was overturned when Jesus died on the cross?
"Ironically enough for Dave Ramsey it's basically a form of ancient social security"
actually laughed at that line
Christian conservatives 🤡🤡
I don't know anything about Dave Ramsey beyond what this guy just told me but this quip didn't logically address Ramsey's concern. Ramsey didn't see social security as income since people put more of their income into it then they'll get out. That the Israelites collected a tithe and used it for social security has no bearing on Ramsey's question as to whether or not SS is income, and therefore tithable as such. It seems the guy making the video had a political point to make that resulted in a non sequitur.
@@scripturethroughancienteye1509video guy also mentioned Ramsey is anti social security. You missed that part
I grew up Mormon where pretty much everyone pays 10% or more of what they make. Boy when i grew up and left the church and found out they were a multi billionaire church i was so mad. I remember people in my congregation who really struggled to put food on the table but they still gave that 10% every month
Yet unlike many churches there are no paid clergy and the majority of money goes to building & maintaining Church buildings worldwide, charity work and missionary efforts, education etc. Not saying they are perfect but there are far FAR worse examples of Religious institutions exploiting donations and enriching individuals.
@SportPhilosophies no man they have 100 billion dollars. The money goes to their money pile and investments, don't be delusional
That's the point where you stop giving
@@SportPhilosophies it would be nice if they published their financials for transparency. That way instead of having faith that the money was spent wisely you could just see where it went.
Tithing is not the churches sole source of income. There are all sorts of avenues through which a 401c3 can finance their cause…
For example… Deseret Book is a commercial enterprise, and while it is owned by an influential Mormon family, it is not owned by the church directly.
Because Deseret Book publishes and/or distributes so much promotional material for the church, they are eligible for tax free grants from the church. And The family that owns Deseret Book can pay tax deductible “tithing” to the church…. Give and take.
Heber J Grant was the President/Prophet that set that one up, selling the business to the man that married one of his daughters. I could go on, but that would be a waste of time.
Do with your money what you will.
It’s a temple tax under the Old Covenant, not a mandate for contemporary Christians. We are called to be cheerful and gracious givers, givers who exceed a set amount. Giving unconditionally to the oppressed and needy first. Modern Evangelicals have turned this ancient practice into a grift, a way to fund their turgid megachurches and overpaid “pastors.” Thanks for this rational presentation.
When the laws were given, the nation of Isreal were a theocratic Bronze-Age society wandering in the desert. A portion of the nation, the tribe of Levi was portioned off to do religious and governing duties. We call those taxes today, because it's the government that does the administrative portion of what the Levittes did. We all grew up with the "pay to Caesar what is owed to Caesar and pay to God what is owed to God' but let's face it, the Christian faith is terrible at explaining what that means. If the parable had any logical semblance, the next question would have been the disciples asking Jesus for clarification if they should be paying 20%, 10 to God and 10 to Caesar. If anything, since the Church serves no significant administrative purpose in this modern age, the tithe should be re-apportioned accordingly....
@@stuntmonkey00 In context, the pay to ceasar what is owed to ceasar is jesus telling the pharisees to pay their taxes while evading their blasphemy allegations, whil give to god what is his due means your mind and soul, which, in christian doctrine, god made.
@@mvalthegamer2450 So, the pharisees asked Jesus if they should pay Roman taxes, and Jesus said 'yes', but he felt people expected a little more from him and added some unnecessary words. Thankfully you did see through it.
sure thing buddy. Did god reveal this to you?
@@mvalthegamer2450 Well yes; we all learned that as the clever way of how Jesus evaded a trap question, but as i said, it's written as a work of literature. Story-wise, the episode ends there, roll credits. But if that happened as it would in actual life, his disciples would have been a) Great answer, that showed them! b) But wait, does that mean....
if tithes are, at least in part, supposed to support the poor then if someone is struggling to make ends meet they should be getting some of that tithe money given to them to support them in their hardship. Not desperately trying to negotiate down how much they have to pay the church
The problem is that these megachurches have a very liberal definition of what counts as helping the poor. Preaching or giving out pamphlets can count as “helping the poor” because they’re helping “spiritually.” Or it can be giving merch with phone numbers and websites. Because hey, you’re “giving to the poor.” Nobody said you’re giving direct cash to the poor. This is also how secular high-overhead scam charities work, like Kids Wish.
Ideally churches should not require people in need to tithe wt all.
I go to a pentecostal church that does tithing and let me tell you for months I have not tithed because I knew money was not asked for by God to the israelites.
I believe by choice and by grace we give money to support the needy in the church and to help the poor outside of the church.
the tithes were supposed to be to god, do you hate god? just pay the 10% and don't ask about it
@@jcavs9847 I would if the commandment hath said give your tithe meant for the levites, widows,poor and strangers as Money for Pastors and for the "church".
Mind you Church is not the physical building we use to gather but we are.
Also what storehouse we have today to put our animals, fruits,wine and oil?
I do agree that we should tithe just as our father Jacob in Gen 28:20-22
By that I mean voluntary, I am not saying you should vow as he vowed but as you desire to, do.
Some people think if they pay their tithes ie give up their money they will be blessed. It is good to gender kindness with your money. However the moment you show off and boast giving your money to God instead of doing it in secret with sincerity of heart and obedience to his awe; is a moment I can not take delight in.
I have heard people said we are not under the law but bring up Malachi 3:8-12 to support today's tithing.
I understand your argument but you have to gather more than just what you presented in order to persuade believers like me on modern tithing.
For many years I faithfully gave 10% of my and my wife' salaries to the church until I woke up and discovered the truth, I am not mad, just sad it took me this long, but indeed the truth set us free.
One thing that gets left out of the conversation about tithing is that the examples of one-tenth given are not total income but specific forms of income. The bits in Levicitus and Deuteronomy are referring to income from livestock and agriculture, something you'd really only have as a landowner and not the servant of a landowner, tenant farmer, or someone selling their labor. Exodus 30 seems to set a minimum of a half-shekel a year (like, a half day's minimum wage a year).
I'm eating this video while watching my breakfast
same, but it's a late breakfast in the evening!
Restaurants and Churches: voluntary tipping is mandatory!!!
yeah but at least the restaurant servers actually need the money
In America. Remember the rest of the world? Hi, it's us and we don't depend heavily on tips and still call ourselves a first world country. But you enjoy your freedom.
Give it to the poor, not the church. I've witnessed too much greed in the churches where I've been to trust them with money.
Same
sadly true, too often. One must use one's discretion. There are churches where tithes buy the pastor a personal jet, and then there are churches which, upon getting $3000, immediately decides to use $1500 of it to fund a local non-profit's annual day of volunteer home and yard work for seniors and those in poverty, another $500 to a local outreach for debit cards to help low-income and homeless people buy gasoline, and earmark the remaining $1000 for future community opportunities, similar to the opportunity they took 3 months before to provide a cabinet to the food pantry at a local school to deter vermin. If a church can't produce minutes and financial reports telling you where the money is going, don't give to them.
From where I live, the local catholic parish specifies the purpose for the monetary collection every time they do one and giving is only voluntary. And they are also transparent with how much money they collect and what did they spend it on. I wish all churches, catholic or not, could do the same.
And NEVER give it to a megachurch. You’re just buying the pastor a new jacuzzi for his Lear jet.
Catholic churches are the best charities
I don't have an issue with tithing as a concept itself; if you're able to give money regularly to those less fortunate without causing yourself financial difficulties, then I think that's great. Doing it as part of an organised group could offer efficiencies, assuming they use the money in good faith. I don't even have a blanket issue with it going to the church; if someone considers their church to be a valuable community space and it, for example, needs major repairs then I don't see an issue with those who are able to contributing towards its upkeep via tithing. What I take issue with is religious groups using it as a cudgel by making people feel they have to give when they can't afford it, give more than is reasonable, gatekeeping spiritual access (i.e. the Mormons), and/or using it to benefit only the religious group rather than the needy. I wish we could always trust religious groups to manage tithing responsibly, but unfortunately I don't think we can. 😓
Well said
Exactly. Despite being an atheist I give around 10-15% of my income to non-profits, no doubt thanks to Peter Singer. It should be a moral obligation to those of high stature, but not for a poor woman suffering from debt.
100%
I only trust groups I'm a member of. I get to vote on the budget every year and see how that's spent. I actually think our pastor is severely underpaid for a leadership position.
nice essay buddy. turns out no one cares about what you think about tithing. You're not a scholar, nor a prophet, nor a god. Why did you comment this? Schizophrenic?
I always love when christians pick which OT laws to uphold like it's a cafeteria
It's mostly about practicality. Some OT laws simply do not make any sense in the modern context and could not be applied even if you tried. Others can still be relevant, because churches need money to support themselves and the ministries they operate, so using Bibical precedent in order to come up with a system to support your church is understandable.
Why do you think k they want The 10 Commandments in schools and not The Beatitudes or The Golden Rule?
CHRINOS.
The Mosaic covenant with its stipulations was made with the people of Israel, no one else. According to the NT, the stipulations of the Mosaic covenant no longer apply under the new covenant, although many Jewish Christians continued to practise them.
We can seek to learn from what wisdom they embody, but we've moved on a long way since then. You would need to provide a sound reason for following any of them, not the other way around.
the law of the old testament was the seed , the vector for the law of grace instituted by Christ . There are multiples kinds of law in the old testament, ranging from moral laws (you have to follow them since it's a question of morality ) and ceremonial laws , i think there's also third type named state laws but i'm not sure . The two latter categories have been fulfillled in Christ , we don't have to follow them .
@@planteruines5619 The idea of categories of laws is not found in the Bible. It's all or nothing. Categorization was invented to justify imposing certain rules but offers no way of distinguishing which rules are what category. The stipulation of the new covenant is the new commandment John 13.34.
From what I understand, tithing in the Catholic world depends on where you are.
I recently moved from one very catholic nation to another and was surprised that I now had to pay tithing.
Emphasis on "had to", even though I'm an atheist and never visited a church here. The mistake was not to leave officially. Apparently there are laws on the books that give recognised churches access to some government records and the right to enforce their taxes. I had to unregister with the government so I would be exempt from tithing. Got a very sad letter from the catholic church right after, and just recently another one "We were sad to see you go, but since it's been a while, maybe you would like to come back?". Like some spiritual netflix or something, that is trying to reel me back in.
Really left a bad taste in my mouth the whole thing.
What nation?
"Spiritual Netflix" is the best description of Religion ever.
Damn, which country?
@@brenateviReligion is not a business, nor a service. It's a way of life. Christians are encouraged to be generous and practice giving as part of their day to day life, and this includes giving in order to support your local church, which most of the time only manages to support itself through the donations of the congregation.
Shouldnt have moved somewhere that hates freedom
Torah tithes:
- first fruits, to the temple (percentage not specified),
- offering to the priests /kohanim (2%),
- first tithe, to the levites (10%),
- second tithe, to the temple (10%),
- poor tithe, to be given to poor people (10%).
Agricultural commandments to leave a part of produce to the poor and strangers:
- corners of the fields (percentage not specified, but jewish tradition says at least 2% of the crops),
- gleanings (percentage not specified),
- forgotten sheaves (percentage not specified),
- grapes and produce not ripe at the time of harvest,
- grape and produce which falls down during the harvest.
Sabbath year /shmita, which is every seventh year:
- no agriculture is to be practiced, and all the produce which grows on its own is for the poor and strangers, one is to eat only from stored foods,
- on this year also all debts are to be forgiven.
Jubilee year, which is after seven sabbath years, ie every 50 years:
- all slaves, captives, and prisoners are to be liberated,
- land redistribution,
- no agriculture on this year either (so along with the seventh sabbath year that means two consecutive years of no agriculture), but what grows on it's own can be eaten by anyone.
In the NT, John the Baptist and Jesus go much further and say you should give away your wealth, and not have more than you need. According to Jesus you can't get saved unless you do that.
Weird how Evangelicals and other conservative Christians ignore all of this.
Nice breakdown of it. Even better pfp. Enrico is my homeboy
One of the few intellectual responses I've ever seen with very poignant references. People are too stuck in their institutionalized mentality of supporting the 'church' even though the church isn't a building or an organization.
A bronze-age society which could survive just straight up doing no agriculture every seventh year must have been incredibly wealthy. Do we know from archeology if this law was actually followed in practice?
Slaves captives and prisoners.
Slavery detected. Free on year 50.
Everyone will ignore whatever negative points of their own faith, not other's faith, that's what faith is meant to, to ignore facts.
When you consider these patriarches had people under them, it's probably only ceos that need to tithe.
If one loses money on stocks, is one permitted to tithe negatively & take money out of the offering?
🙌
I think you missed the entire point of the video, the reason, and the opportunity to give in the first place.
Most USA person comment ever! Lol
@AntwanRSmith like a true christian 😂
By the power invested in me by the cult I have started and by the authority which lies in the power of my wearing of many long thobes, scarfs, keffiyahs, and vestments I pronounce the allowance of you to remove moneys out of the offerings according to the losses you incur during your trading of stocks and bonds.
Three religious leaders, ( I'm not specifying which religions ), were talking about how they deal with the tithing in the plate each week.
The first said " I draw a circle on the floor, about 6 inches. I then throw the money into the air, the money in the circle goes to me, the rest to god."
The 2nd said " I also draw the circle and throw the money but the money in the circle goes to god, the rest to me. "
The 3rd said " I throw the money in the air. What god wants he keeps."
Something consistent in most branches of the Abrahamic faiths is the idea that no law supersedes one's health. Someone in the States making $2000 a month is very far below the poverty line, and I would say that giving when you already don't have enough for yourself and your family is not mandatory because it endangers your health. Giving that $200 might as well be the woman giving her two coins to the temple for how much a tithe is worth on poverty. I would also argue that the same applies to secular law and that necessities should be freely given to all, but that's another story.
Amazing video as always!
I still don’t understand why God needs money to make church happen
He dosent. Give freely if you want. You wont be condemned if you dont
especially when the “human form of god” literally said to not even build churches. its almost like its a pyramid scheme
Even if I went to a church I couldn't in good conscience support the opulent lifestyle of the church. They don't need jets, mansions, and limos.
God doesn't need money, but the people working within the various ministries within churches like charities and so on also need money to sustain themselves somehow. God doesn't need our money, no, but God likes people to be generous and willing to support each other.
If God is all powerful, why doesn't he pony up to support his employees?
The Old Testament gave a percentage that was to be given, 10%.
The New Testament says to give based on your heart.
It also doesn't say it must be given to the church (as in the church you attend) sense churches back in the day were far more nebulous so giving could be more abstract.
Dave Ramsey has his figures wrong for FICA/SSI. If you work consistently for 43 years and start at $15 minimum wage and get a 3% raise every year, then you will contribute $160K in FICA payment (6% of wages). Your employer will contribute the same amount. So if you get $1500 per month in SSI, you have almost 9 years of payments discounting annual COLA adjustments, on your contributions and an additional 9 years on your employer's contributions. The money in the Social Security Trust Fund also grows annually, but slower than the stock market. So you have depleted your "account" at age 81 or so (65 + 16). At age 65, you have a reasonable expectation of living an additional 16 years.
This is a simplification of the realities of social security. The social security system was set up to address the problem of elder poverty. I personally believe that SSI/SSDI is income and that a portion of that gross income should be directed to charities, non profits, and churches. Same for RMD from IRA's and 401K's.
Please do not use "SSI" when you mean "Social Security benefits". It drives me crazy as a tax practitioner when people do this.There is a government program called "Supplemental Security Income" that has "SSI" as an acronym and is completely separate from Social Security. At least at my current job there are no clients on (the actual) SSI, but it was very common when I was a volunteer for doing poor people's taxes. Part of my training for that was to make sure to understand the difference between the two, because we knew there would be people who used "SSI" when meaning "Social Security benefits", because that's just what has for some reason worked its way into society. I'm doing my best to try to stop people from doing it whenever I see it happen.
@@stevenglowacki8576Well your incoming administration intends doing away with the whole shebang anyway, so it'll shortly be moot...
I was brought up a Christian, had a painful breakup at age 18, spent 20+ years as a convinced materialist, and now....
Well, I don't self-identify as "new age", but it the term captures the gist of it.
During all that, I guess my attitude has been to give according to my means. I never had much money, so I could only donate pittance to charity. Like, I donated a pittance to the charity supported by this fundraiser. But hey, it's something.
And I'm thinking that the woman in the example, just at the beginning should be the recipient of charity, not the donor. If we expect the poor to give to charity, who the heck are they suppose to support?
And the pastor in that segment. As I said, I don't think I can rightly call myself Christian nowadays. But I can't help thinking. "When Josh himself was about the be tortured to death, he healed the ear of the guy coming to take him away. But when he ran into people like YOU, he responded with physical assault."
Thanks for these videos! I appreciate the effort and scholarship that goes into each one and I love how you teach religion without judgement or taking sides. It has become part of my Sunday morning routine to watch your channel.
Three priest are talking about tithes and how they handle the money. One says he draws a line on the floor and throws the money in the air , to the heavens. What lands on one side is god’s ,what lands on the other is the priest’s. The second priest says he does much the same thing except he draws a small circle and stands in the middle. In the circle his, out side god’s. The third priest says he too throws the money in the air. “God takes what he wants . The rest is mine.”😂
By the way, I love your channel, and thank you always.
In college, my Asian American Christian friends would ponder the question of tithing weekend casino winnings. They abandoned that abhorrent vice, by the way, and they're all deacons and elders now.
Given the Christian "explanation" that the "moral" laws of the OT continue but the "ritual" ones don't, how does tithing as an obligation to the church survive? It seems like that should squarely fall into the "ritual" camp.
The idea that "tithing" applies to a Christian church is a modern innovation. I don't think there is any evidence from the New Testament or early Christian history that it was applied to donations to churches, or really any giving. Unfortunately, it has been jumped on as a fund-raising tool by greedy pastors with way too much power and influence, taking advantage of the unquestioning obedience of their audiences.
you're right , good reasoning . you can sort out denominations to see their fruits with that criteria and which one follow their theology more consistently. After all , if one of them is right , well they have to be consistant in their explanation.
One word: MONEY...
Apparently Priesthood's are extremely profitable not unlike Hollywood.💙
It's probably MORE profitable than Hollywood these days!
@@VJMorph...
And AI could be the end of both of those revenue streams.💙
It's another way to give what little you have to the capitalist machine. If you're going to give, give your time, love and any spare cash to people who actually need and deserve it. Not people who just need another Ferrari.
Mark - I am surprised that you did not mention Malachi 3:10, which I have understood to be the only verse in any part of the Bible which seems to say that tithing is a way to “prove” God and God’s blessings. Perhaps unpacking Malachi 3:10 is a topic for another video?
Same thought. Malachi 3:9 and 3:12
And if the rebuttal is, "What if it's a fake (mega) church with fake preachers?" then why not don't tithes there?
When I see Ken Copelad, Joel Osteen and Creflo Dollar tithe a tenth of their income to an actual charitable institution, I'll consider it 😅
Greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself and love your God. Giving is to come from a jouful heart. God has no desire of a resentful giver.
One comes before the other
Well said. Once the giver starts seeing it as a dreaded obligation, it no longer glorifies God. At that point it is simply yet another tax to be paid.
If I was Jewish/christian I’d be fine. I don’t grow crops or raise livestock. 10% of zero is zero.
Regarding tithing animals: It is worth noting that sacrifices were always MALE animals, not because males were holier but because you only needed one or two rams to keep increasing the flock. It is reasonable to assume that tithe animals were likewise extraneous males and would pose no real burden on the owner.
Maybe their breeding was also encouraged, given the requirements of perfection for each sacrifice.
6:09 That's a 20% APR. Still better than most credit cards, but not by that much
And a damned lot higher than personal loans for people with decent credit scores.
Fascinating stuff!
Philippians 4:8 - "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things."
Give Directly sounds like follows UBI type of thing. I can dig the aspect of not infantalizing the recipients, if we believe that people are overall rational beings who make everyday decisions according to what will bring them the most benefit in the long-term, then we should give without condition.
Your taxation in any welfare state is more than enough of a tithe for assisting the poor. The separation of church and state isn't really accounted for.
Yes finally someone addressed this lol
As a young teen i would go to church on sunday to be with a couple of my friends. We all would give $5 ea. As i grew up i notice the pastor driving a better car then some of the people at this church. For a church being tax exempt and still asking this is what wrong people in America are paying close to 50% in taxes already.
Wake up people this religious stuff is all fancy! Save your money and take care of you family and loves.
Greaaaat video. When you asked if we should give god our capital gains on stocks or something, too funny.
I did not realize Ramsey tried being a doctor of the church on his show that is great
1.6% monthly interest rate is insane, i know the US had it but but this is extreme.... Anything above 10% per year should be illigal
I have been a part of different churches or philosophical organizations, which have basically encouraged voluntary tithing, but with different teachings about the concept, reasons why, etc. Harmonizing the various teachings, here’s what I’ve come up with myself - tithing is a way to compensate God and higher beings (angels, etc.) as a way to express gratitude for our very existence. I tithe 10% of my gross income as a way to put God first financially. I pretty much tithe on all cash received, including money paid back to me, but I don’t tithe on most dividends or gains unless I receive those dividends or gains as cash in my pocket. I generally don’t tithe on interest that’s compounding, unless I were to withdraw or cash out the fund, then I would tithe on the whole cash amount received (principal plus interest). If I receive a tax refund, I would tithe 10% on that. I do tithe on my gross of a pension I have started receiving, but I’m not sure how I would handle Social Security. I guess I would probably tithe on my gross Social Security payments received? It is also my experience that the practice of tithing, ironically, does seem to bring about increased financial blessings and prosperity for me personally, at least in my opinion and experience, not magically of course, but in the way of prospering ideas or ways to generate even more prosperity.
Give cause you WANT TO, and if you appreciate God’s Blessings!!!!
Not cause you HAVE TO!!!!! God won’t FORCE YOU!!!!!:/
……For God loves a Cheerful giver!!!!;);)
-2 Corinth 9:7
I still find it strange that the reality of how the bible came together is not more widely known and taught. The new testament is a small and limited, chosen collection of what were considered "Christian" writings from the time. The writings were chosen by a select group of high-ranking people and they would have brought their own biases and socio-cultural leanings when deciding what books qualified.
@16:00 was Mt Gerazim one of those tithing places/sanctuaries?
Great channel, congrats on all your success.
My papaw gave $5 every week, period. If he had a $20 he'd make change in the offering plate.😂
I wish we had that in America
In Islam, around 2.7% yearly, if you can afford it and if it has already been saved for more than a year. You can see Saudi Arabia as the highest donation percentage of GDP.
In my mind, its about not letting money rule ones heart and giving to others. Certainly I see the practice as a way to support those in the community and abroad. Do that woman ramsey was talking to, I feel shouldn't feel any obligation to donate.
The romans required ten percent as well. Judeah was a nation state, so maybe 10 percent to support a church is a flexible sum.
QUESTION: governance at the time was supported by these tithes (and conquest). Governance WAS religion. Modern government saw the charity work, education, and social security the various religions managed - and wanted it. Today, therefore, since government’s are mostly separate from religions and have replaced most of the fictions, is tithing to be considered PAID by taxes?
I live in Utah and there is a stark distinction of Christian and non Christians. The money in the church here goes to those are in their group and only a fraction seems to trickle down to those actually in need.
Actually over 2 billion per year goes towards humanitarian aid and needs globally and those in need such as homeless (that’s why California) and other states will send them to Utah
That’s strange, I also live in Utah and see non Mormons in general benefiting from the LDS charitable food banks and systems of support far more than members. There is a reason homeless from all over the US descend on Utah and SLC. The Church pours hundreds of millions into aid throughout the world, with most of it benefiting non members, I even saw it in England where I grew up. A country where next to no one is Mormon.
@@SportPhilosophies exactly, I would just end with that personal experience is nice however data and reliable information is more important since personal experience is very limited and much more faulty because of its inherent limitation and biases such as larger entity has money= greedy corrupt corporation where the top benifits and those in need do not which is not the case in the lds church based off of the data
@@tomabros9008 True, data does show how and where LDS money is spent, especially in places like UK and Canada where financial statements are fully disclosed. I never truly expect my personal experiences alone to prove anything, I simply hope they may counter a popular Utah/US perspective that doesn't take into account worldwide charity of the Church in countries where often less than 1% are members.
10:56 It is interesting that tithing isn't mentioned in Exodus at all, considering Exodus usually contains the more primitive version of the Mosaic law. Adding to this that in 8:27 you mentioned it appears in the "King's Sentence" as one of the burdens a king will impose, perhaps tithing was only invented as a custom once the Temple was built (this also explains why it is mentioned in Jacob's dream story, the people saw it as a custom that needed to be explained with a just-so story, not a divine command)...
15:47 This doesn't necessarily hint at a pre-Jerusalem custom, as Amos was an Israelite prophet, and Bethel was an Israelite city, while Jerusalem was a Judaite city. In 1Kings 12:26-30 it states that Jeroboam established the Bethel worship as part of the saparation from Jerusalem...
Why doesn't God give to the poor, after all he owns everything.
the greater question is why you don't do that , after all , even if you are limited , you can do what you can
@planteruines5619 because, I didn't design the system, he did.
Why should I fix his mistake?
Well...he likes Elon best. 🙄
Phenomenal thumbnail 😂
Could there please be a video explaining why there were more polytheistic religions back in the day regardless of the country of origin ( Aztec, Egyptian, Chinese...) ? And obviously, more monotheistic religions as some point in time?
Are religions trends ? Because There was less communication between people ? ..
Thank you very much
Monotheism arose from nationalist propaganda of Biblical authors to prevent Israelites from worshiping national deities of neighbouring nations. Yahweh was originally one of the 70 sons of supreme god El.
Thank you.
Thanks for sharing such valuable information! Just a quick off-topic question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
Tithing is a demand under the Old Covenant, not a law for the NT Church. No one in the Church taught tithing until the unauthorized Pentarchy merged with the Roman State, and various bishops started carrying out municipal as well as religious functions.
Dave is a master of marketing, who made his BILLION on regurgitating post-bankruptcy education as "Christian financial principles," which he sells primarily as workshops for churches. His foot in the doors of these churches is the fact that his $1-300 dollar 'common sense program,' that tells you to spend less than you make and save some money, also tells Christians that tithing is required by God, (though the Apostles never taught in once in the NT). This increases the net income of the churches, which is why they overlook their pastoral roles to let a wolf through the door, rather than teaching common sense themselves. It's a scam, and both he and the churches that allow it should be ashamed of themselves.
👏
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter,[c] not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks[d] one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
@@KarmasAB123what does fulfill mean? If something is fulfilled then is it required? Please understand what your reading
@@KarmasAB123 Acts 15, Galatians, Collossians 2, Hebrews, and keep your judaizing to yourself. You can follow the covenant of Death to death if you'd like; I'll be following the covenant of life unto life.
@@unitewithch It obviously doesn't mean that Jesus did it for you or there would be no need for the commandment.
Render unto etc… So go on, Donald and co… pay yer feckin tax
1/60 per month is actually 22% per annum. You need to get a better credit card if you think that rate is attractive!
(1 + 1/60)^12 = 1.2194 or .2194 increase or 22% interest per year
The tithing law was made for the Temple and the Levite class. The Temple is gone. Pastors and megachurches hang on to the tithing law because it's how they fund their grift. I can't even count the amount of horseshit sermons that condemns those that don't give. In the New Testament, you are exhorted to give as much as you want or can.
If you think your pastor is a grifter, then the problem is with you.
@@smileytownSFmany pastors are grifters and that is a fact.
@@smileytownSF Wow! You believe anyone with the title of "pastor" should be given a blind eye, as it is impossible for them to grift! Any position of authority has been and will be abused. Don't be naiive.
Bro thinks pastors can't be evil@@smileytownSF
It's interesting how tithing from earned wages carries no biblical precedent yet it's frequently presented as a biblical mandate. Nowhere in the Bible were Gentiles commanded to tithe at all and nowhere in the Bible were Israelites commanded to tithe from their monetary earnings. I agree with Dave on a lot of things. Just not his interpretation of biblical tithing.
Might the arabic word "zakat" be related to sumerian "zag" through some sort of ancient borrowing? Interesting coincidence if not
The idea, to my understanding, is to give what you can to those who requires it
I mean, at that time there werent even Churches, you can't tell me at that time the "almighty" God would require humans to give this 1 random facility money while those that actually deserves it just gets ignored because they don't go to church
Tithes is about the heart. It's not an obligation. Your tithes mean nothing if it not from the heart. Read about Cain's offering.
How would Protestants reconcile mandatory tithing with not being able to earn salvation with good works, as mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9?
1.67% a month in interest is about 21% apr. so it’s in line with most credit cards regular apr.
Tithing: because those SA lawsuits aren't going to pay for themselves.
If you want to do something good, give to a real charity instead.
Even men of god falters in the eve of temptation
The conservative politics don't really play in. You get out less than you pay in, that is just a fact regardless of what you think of the ss program, so his reasoning is only based on how you define income, not at all on politics.
Never forget about 10% for the big guy, and I'm not talking about tithes.
Abraham gave 10% not of his income but of his assets. (A tenth of everything, Gen 14:20)
Generous and sacrificial giving (of time, love, attention, not just money) is most certainly the expectation of the NT, regardless of the percent. That Jesus commended the poor woman for giving to the temple treasury, and the examples of Acts where money is given to the fledgling Jesus movement both support the giving to one's congregation and generally to the Church. The 1 Cor 9 text is even more explicit-ministers deserve to be paid.
This grates at us cause we have all heard the horror stories of greed and corruption. But being familiar with this world (of pastors and pastoring) I can assure you that the vast majority of pastors are people who don't make it on the news, who have small churches so you never hear about them, but are faithful and down to earth folk, typically working way more than 40 hrs/week, always on call, and paid a livable but humble wage. The only reason this is hard to believe for some is because you hear all the time about the 1% pastors like Kreflo Dollar and Joel Osteen, but have probably never met any of the local pastors at all those tiny churches you drive past every day (not to mention that most overhead at most churches is significantly bigger than the pastor's salary).
@@ryankaufman3590 Jesus did not commend the woman to pay the temple , he praised her (and scolded the temple from living off widows ) .
oh wait , my bad .
@planteruines5619 Came down here to say this. IIRC, the widow giving out of poverty is literally the verse before Jesus scolds the temple for living off of widows and orphans, but the two verses are in different chapters (chapter demarcations didn't exist when the text was written). Meaning that for some reason, someone thought these two extremely related verses belonged in separate chapters, which seems fishy to me.
@@alicia1463 yes , the partitions of the Bible into chapter and verses was made much much later than their first written form . For exemple the first account of Genesis doesn't fit the first chapter . the books however are true units . the partition is more to be used as a way to indicate a specific portion of the text than to regroup the stories inside a book (even if they roughly follow that ) . as all humans tools it has its limits .
@@planteruines5619 Commend means "praise". You're thinking of "command".
@@maskonfilteroff3145 oh , i did know that , thanks .
No. Give to those in need who YOU choose to give it. No coercion as the NT clearly teaches. Tithing is the biggest wealth transfer scam ever invented. God loves and blesses us because we bless others less fortunate and love HIM ALONE as our creator and God. 1st and greatest commandment.
What's your thought on Malachi 3:10?
It’s actually 20%, the Jewish and Muslim have it, as well, khoms and zakat
No mention of the "Corners of the Field"? This is often mentioned in context of tithing.
Thanks For the Video.
Keep Up the Good Work.
I’m just starting this video but I can say with certainty that the Quran explicitly explains giving 10% of your income is zakat
would the Aribic word 'zakat' be derived from the Sumerian 'zag'?
Got a Dave Ramsey ad before this video 😂 probably not the best use of ad spend for him.
People who were not jews were never mandated to pay tithes. Jesus said the woman who gave one coin gave more than everyone else because she gave out of her poverty. And Paul the apostle never took up tithes he took up offerings. Offerings are only giving what you feel like giving and it's not an obligation. Tithing is not really a Christian thing it's a Jewish thing.
You're in Kenya?
As a kenyan, I'm proud of what you're doing
I agree, explaining tithing is important.
Hello 👋🏽 fellow Kenyan..
My eyes water when i remember the tithes, offerings, altar sacrifices etc that make pastors worth hundreds of millions. Its a good faith-based tool that's misused by many religious leaders
@jullietmburu9672 they force us to pay tithes without asking how one got it or situation one is in. The focus is on how much we give
So was tithing extra a sort of “social flex”? I can tithe 13%, I’m just that awesome!
The ancient hebrew Mr Beast
No.
Jesus says to give up everything.
Multiple times.
He states you cannot have wealth and worship God.
He says his followers will have left everything behind.
He specifically states that on the day of judgement, he will send to hell the people who do not feed the hungry or help the sick.
It’s what HE did, too.
The myths say he fed people and healed them and never once did he say “yeah, but you’re just a lamp lighter, that’s not a REAL job.”
1:02 That translation is wrong though, the original word means "yield" and exclusively refers to crops (which is obvious from context, because even the translation here says "of thy seed"). Society at biblical times was an agrarian society and it shows!
It does sound like a word for sown seed.
@1ntwndrboy198 Actually, I think "produce" is an even better translation (for those wondering, the Hebrew word is תְּבוּאָה /təvuá/)...
And BTW, I don't think social security should count as income at all, because it is a government handout, and refers to the commandments to let the poor harvest from your own field (known as the plucking [לֶקֶט /léqet/], the forgetting [שִׁכְחָה /šixəẖá/] and the edge [פְּאָה /pəá/])...
So, if I direct deposit my income to a bank account, I'm tithing to a temple that loans out to businesses.
I think tithing is good but not mandatory meaning God won't punish you if you can't tithe.
In a modern economy, how might one tithe one’s gigabytes or teraflops?
'King Shulgi of Ur dating to the early 21st-century...'
Oh, that's really modern!
'... BCE.'
Ah.
On a sidenote, do you think Tithes have anything in common with Phonecian "Teth?"
Dave Ramsey is actually a pretty insane financial advisor and not to be listened to...
13.38 I disagree. I do not see any contradiction, the tithe belongs to God and God wants it to be spent on his priests, the poor, the orphans and on feasts to celebrate his servants. Although I do recognise that if the text does not stipulate the proper way of distributing the tithe amongs the afformentioned groups, then I am wrong.
While this is interesting, I'll have to rewatch, but I don't think this video goes into how (or if at all) Old Testament Tithing was even intended to relate to giving financially to the church in the New Testament.