I am autistic. I was fervently religious for about 10 years (age 15-25). Unfortunately despite having a deeper faith and more scriptural knowledge than most, I was never truly accepted by any church, because as hard as I tried, I could not conform to the norms of the group. In the denomination I had found myself in, scriptural knowledge was untoward for a woman to have (which is...so confusing). I was pressured into marrying a church leader who was controlling and abusive, and then I was accepted for those 5 years, but was formally disfellowshipped after divorcing him. At first I lamented that I believed in God but was not welcome in church, but later came to accept that they had done me a favor. It is so much more healthy for my autistic brain to embrace nothing more than concrete, material reality. Church was socially exhausting and I was always very emotional, sometimes even selectively mute due to stress. And actually the whole reason I had to get married in the first place was because I gave the church too much of my money and became homeless (this was intentional on their part because they really pushed for women to be dependent)...so the points you make in the video about being taken advantage of are very relevant... I no longer have any of that stress in my life, thank goodness. But I still love the stimulating nature of metaphysical thought experiments, so atheism has become a new special interest for me. I still watch formal debates and read theology, but it is a more detached interest--as it should have always been. I am a happy autistic atheist. :) Thank you for the video.
Wow! Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. I really appreciate your insight and I feel what you are saying. I am SO glad you found your path. Thank you so much.
I learned as even someone with Asperger’s the church is nothing more than a tax exempt business that judges you while they do shameful shit and think it’s ok. It’s a toxic environment and they’ll get rid of anyone who will have an affect on their future donations.
The thing is just like what the Bible says you can’t have faith in man they will always let you down. It’s one thing to have actual wonders an doubts of faith vs leaving God all together because of humans.
Autistic and raised Catholic. Church was extremely difficult for me because it was sensory overload in so many ways. SOUND: Too loud. I resorted to wearing high fidelity earplugs when I still went which helped. TOUCH: I LOATHE touch, save for very very few people in my life. Shaking other people's hands during "peace" is something I always dreaded and hated in a way that only other people averse to that type of thing could truly understand. I was always very uncomfortable having that many people so close to and surrounding me. SMELL/TASTE: I have extreme sensitivity to fragrances. The smell of cologne, perfume, scented laundry detergents, dryer sheets, halitosis was sometimes so strong that not only could I smell those things, I could even taste them. Debilitating.
I get sensory overload too in church but not as badly as you. I made a youtube channel where I quietly, and slowly narrate books of the Bible. No background music no words on the screen just my voice. I made for it us ( autistic) people to get some benefit from it. Id be grateful if you'd check it out someday. x
I've found it quite interesting that a few people in the comments section of another RUclips channel have mentioned converting to Catholicism or orthodox Christianity, as has one of my co-workers. I've been a pretty strident atheist most of my life, but find religion pretty fascinating. I love the beauty of elaborate churches and temples, and was pretty appalled to read about the dissolution of the monasteries, Puritan destruction of churches in the English civil War, church burning in the Spanish civil War and so on. On the other hand, when it 16:20 comes to beliefs and practices, Catholic-style religion has no appeal for me, and I'm definitely more sympathetic to a bare-bones simplified belief system. When I started to learn to meditate, I initially got involved with a Tibetan Buddhist group, and quickly started to feel the elaborate ceremonies and long-winded prayers were a waste of my time. I switched to vipassana meditation, which I've stuck with ever since. When the teacher on one vipassana course asked me how vipassana differed from Tibetan practices I said "this is Dhamma for protestants. They are Dhamma for Catholics". I'd be interested to find out what forms of religion are more appealing to autistic people.
I went to lifepoint (a huge mega billionaire church) as a kid and the concerts were so annoying. How loud it was and crammed mixed with the music being ass made me hate church
I’ve always thought there was something fundamentally wrong with me because I could never feel the love of god. Growing up on a very religious household this caused a tremendous amount of trauma. Even though I left religion 25 years ago, until now I still thought it was a deficit. Thanks for helping me see it’s not a flaw, just how my brain works.
not a flaw, not a god, just... a different brain that isn't susceptible to that form of manipulation or perception error as much as the "normal" populace.
The modern notion of "feeling" the love of God is a misunderstanding. The Bible actually tells us to avoid sensuality. I always felt like something was "off". I didn't realize what it was until I actually read the Bible. Once you do, you'll realize how many people today don't actually understand their own faith. Biblical illiteracy is rampant in the modern church.
The gospel says that love is not a “ feeling”. It’s a choice to show thoughtful action even when there seems to be no reward. Christ died for us on the cross because he loves us. I didn’t always trust my own understanding or feelings and I’m not on the spectrum. It is a difficult concept to comprehend though.
@@lindseysanders3656 that’s one definition of love but there are others, and your definition won’t work in all situations or for all people. That kind of love amounts to kindness without feeling and can be manipulative and cold. Some of us would prefer to go without it.
Hey there, great video! As someone with autism, your remarks about not having good answers for questions science can't answer rang true for me. I used to be an atheist because I didn't see a good reason to believe in God. Then I heard one particular argument and it was like a switch flicked in my head. Suddenly it made perfect sense! You've talked about how people will say things like "struggle well and you'll be rewarded". To those people I would say, "Faith without works is dead." In my church, we're called to bear each other's burdens, and to me that includes emotionally. The best "religious" people I've known are the ones who will get down with you on the ground to help you through the tough stuff. It seems like a lot of people use religious phrases like that when they don't know what else to say, but want to feel/seem holy. It's why I try my best to relate to other people emotionally, especially when they have similar conditions/circumstances to myself. It feels like barely anybody understands us, and I want to change that. You're doing well on that front, as well. "Love one another as I have loved you," Jesus said. I can only hope that I'm doing exactly as he said.
Having just realized and concluded that I am autistic...at 65 years old, I must tell you this is the BEST sermon I have ever heard. The search to fit in has been solved for me with this self-diagnosis, and this video is brilliant. Religion traumatized me through my life in various ways. Even as a child I asked the adults why would ALL the people in the world who don't believe in Jesus go to hell if they are good people??? It never made sense to me. I just couldn't see it. I feel now, learning about autism, I can finally stop searching for it all to make sense. I am ok just the way I am. My brain is just different and it's ok! Many blessings for your information...from whatever God you do or don't connect with! BTW, I'm sort of gently occasionally practicing animism right now...and even after a deep dive into it, it's one I can hang my hat on, so to speak. Talking to trees I have done all my life! No church, no real ritual unless I choose, when and where I want. Yeah. I can do that.
You may love theunsundayshow the guy was a preacher for 40 years but he walked away from institutional Christianity. It’s liberating to realize the simple truths he puts forward from scripture that liberate you from the stresses of the fake church propaganda and programming and let’s you free yourself from that to just be loved by God. It’s wonderful his perspective. Helped me being autistic so maybe it’s good for you.
things like this are what did it for me. Can got not stop the terrible things happening to people? then hes not really all powerful is he? can he stop them and doesn't? then hes cruel and doesn't deserve worship. That or he doesn't exist at all. I remember reading about some literal and figurative satanic cults when doing a religions class and it made so much more sense to me. There was a cult that believed in the literal existance of satan (the church of satan doesn't believe in any of that its just a metaphor for rebellion) and it said that they thought god was a tyrant and he was the victor so he got to write the history and paint lucifer as the bad guy, when he had actually fought against god for us. Now I was atheist since high school, but I thought "if I could believe in christianity I would have to agree with the satanists".
In my family, being autistic is like being a Targaryen: "Every time a new Targaryen is born, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land." The devoted ones grow up to be preachers, and the disavowed grow up to be scientists. The story repeats itself like in the Buendia family, it is neurodivergent Ouroboros.
Judging by a comparison that includes two works of fiction and one ancient symbolism, one would think you're falling on the preachers side, actually. At least more so, with the given dichotomy (where preachers appear to be more on the flowery and poetic side than the precise and analytical).
This is a nice story but also a false dichotomy in a way. An independent path may appear more like a monk than a preacher, though the difference may be only timing on when we check. Learning at our own pace can mean that we must move toward an esoteric over standing.
I grew up LDS as an undiagnosed autistic female. At different points of my life it worked well for me. When my children hit their teen years, none of them wanted to go to church. At that point I reflected and realized how much anxiety I was also experienced as an active member and stopped attending. I’ve never had the desire to go back. Some other members of my family still attend and I’m pretty sure they’re trying to save my soul by overly encouraging my beliefs. I love your list and see that I see participation similarly. Thank you for putting this together! 😊
The great thing about the LDS church is that it’s true and that means 1: God knows you and what’s in your heart 2: your not dammed to hell for not going to church. So do what makes you feel comfortable. You’ll still be ok in the end.
Glad you found your way out eventually and are at peace. Glad your kids rejected that cult too. It's nothing more than a superficial elitist club that manipulates you into doing things for them by shaming you if you don't. They take up way too much of your time and money too.
@@scottyproctor3386having tried to conform to the LDS church for 40+ years, I finally realized I needed to take care of my mental health and step away. I feel so much better now. I respect your opinion that you believe in the truthfulness of the church. For a long time I felt so confused about why I didn’t. Now I’m learning more about myself and my autism and how I perceive religion and God. It’s a healthier place for me.
@@scottyproctor3386 HAHAHHAHAAAAA honestly, its one of the most obviously false religions on earth, except perhaps scientology. 1. god would need to be real to know things 2. no one is damned* to hell, ever, there's no evidence its a real thing.
I was part of a church lead by a narcissistic pastor. I was undiagnosed AuDHD but was sure I was ADHD which was constantly shamed. We were told that leaving would "shipwreck" our kids lives and people who left were shunned which kept me there way too long. I'm very happy to be free from all of it. I've spent years healing the religious trauma.
@@scary5455 I've never had anyone mistreat my children because of how I chose to eat. I've never had people who said we were family talk about me to others as someone who is "vomit" because of how I ate.
What a fantastic video. I was raised in a very religious home that was honestly, fundamentalist. I ended up falling in love with a very smart, autistic man who was agnostic. I was so drawn to him because he had all the traits of a “Godly” man, was my best friend, was fun, adventurous and incredibly intelligent (graduated from MIT and had a PhD). He was everything I wanted in a husband, except that he wasn’t a Christian. Even though he was raised in church, his parents respected that religion didn’t make sense to him. They allowed him to be himself, and that’s truly amazing. He knows more about ancient history and the Bible than most Christians so, so he would win every religious argument. And he was totally okay with me continuing to be somewhat religious. Eventually I became non religious myself.
I am lucky enough to be part of a church community with many other ND individuals and we understand each other’s sensory struggles and are willing to find solutions. One recent example: I work in the children’s hallway and I noticed that the piano in the children’s room was out of tune, so I mentioned it to our bishop and less than a week later, it was tuned! It helped mitigate the sensory issues with the ‘bad’ music (which was more like noise for a couple of our children in particular). I appreciate your neutral and inclusive approach to this topic. As an AuDHD member of a pretty conservative church home, I often feel called out for being somehow bigoted or hypocritical by others in the autistic community. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
John 15:18-20 "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Don't let the world cause you to stumble. Don't let the world make you feel like a 'bigot' Keep serving our lord and saviour Jesus Christ. He loves you deeply. Blessed are those who endure until the end. Be bold for Jesus don't ever be ashamed. God bless you❤
These tips were so good. It’s so needed. Church can be a ruff place. It might be a safe place for nurotopical people but the non trauma informed church could accidentally be doing harm. Many are learning though. God is teaching us all. I am Diagnosed - I love learning about religion. All of them. Different ideas. I even love researching people I don’t agree with to try and understand where they are coming from.. it’s valuable and beautiful to see people where they are at. I am a committed Christian who enjoy a non threatening childlike personal relationship with Jesus because I do believe in Him and believe He has saved me from the penalty of eternal death. I’m very grateful to Him so I naturally love to be close to Him.
Thank you for this. It was so affirming for me. I grew up in a strict Mormon household, and really had a hard time feeling like it was a safe space. I also identify as LGBTQ+ & grew up thinking that I was an “abomination” destined for hell. I genuinely tried to understand the religion, and read scriptures fervently but whenever I had questions I was often deemed as troublesome. Many men in the church did not like how knowledgeable and questioning I was about scripture, I think I was seen as not being submissive enough. It was a very damaging environment for me. I left the religion in my twenties after i served a mission & felt like I gave it my all but it was too toxic an environment for me. I still have special interest in Religion & Spirituality, but I am much happier just living by those principles that align with me intellectually as well as my own heart.
Mormonism was a haven for me until it wasn't. It offered many things that I once thrived on. A mission is not well adapted to many autistic people. Respect for people who wish to live their lives in it. Respect for those who found their way out; it's not an easy or encouraged path. After watching this video, it's clear to me why some of the social challenges and opposition to what seemed to me as scientific and logical thought were reasons I knew I wouldn't feel comfortable there, especially given immense pressure from family members. I did hear a few short phrases in the video that reminded me of the Mormon faith, which isn't surprising as it appears he may have had a special interest with a large number of religions.
If you think you go to hell just for being lgbt, then you never understoof Christianity. It's not sinful to be lgbt. It's sinful to engage in lgbt actions, but everybody sins.
Diagnosed as Asperger's late in life. I spent most of my life disinterested in faith and only approached religion in an academic manner. I'm now ordained in my faith and take great solace and joy in my beliefs. I am quite fine with people disagreeing with me, having a different faith or no faith at all. I recognize each individual's right to believe in accordance with their conscience but I will not alter my beliefs or behaviors for others.
Religion hurt me. It intensified my anxiety by making me internalize rules of behavior that caused me to be used hurtfully. I could never protect myself from horrible situations and abusers. I believed :(
25 year old male with High-Functioning Autism and have deeply devouted my life to Jesus Christ since I was 15. I find refuge in him because I truly believe he understood me and find my relationship with him deeply meaningful. I thank the Lord for being alive and experiencing some of these tough hardships. And thank you for addressing to the minority of autistic people who rooted their faith in Christ. God bless
There’s no such thing as “high-functioning autism.” It was never an official medical label and was always used as a reductive descriptor that falsely painted the autistic spectrum as a linear functioning scale and suggested that no autistic person (whether labeled “high-functioning” or “low-functioning”) could ever measure up to a “fully functioning” neurotypical. You’re autistic, period. Your individual traits don’t make you inferior to neurotypicals or superior to your fellow autistics.
Growing up in a conservative Christian family and church, always an interesting thing to be the one asking questions no one knew the answer to, and being told to just ‘have faith’ and ‘believe’. Falling in line with the church hierarchy, and to tone down any brain cells because as a woman, you’re not meant to ask, do or expect certain things. It has taken years of leaving church, doing my own thing and trying to make peace because I can theologically argue with the best of them for me to accept what was said of ‘you do you’. Coming out as lgbtqi in later life, regardless of being older and wider, was still met with being told I was now going to hell, regardless of discussing why we care more about who I love in an honest way than the abuse, threats, and evil intent of some in churches… Thanks for the great talk again Doc.
I was a practicing Christian and Sunday school teacher married to an abusive narcissistic atheist. When I decided to get divorced my Priest took my husbands side. I spiralled into my first depression and have never attended church since. I am still spiritual and have a direct connection to Nature.
It also doesn't help that autism comes with the trait to question authority. That doesn't mean we disrespect the authority, it means we go to the authority with questions, and if we find the authority lacking in proper answers, we just don't consider them the authority anymore 😁
I do question Mans Authority and have never been inclined to become a full fledged member of any church. That being said I don’t have issue at all with Gods Authority but it definitely took drastic means to get me to the alter.
@loraliecataldi1975 I have no issue with God's authority either, though I do take issue with how far the church and it's preachers claim to know the true motives of God 😏
as an autistic person who is a panthiest religion to me is something that just makes life more fun and interesting im not concerned with proving my belief or convincing people it is simply a way of life
I am a happy AUDHD atheist. It has been so great becoming more myself and finding happiness and acceptance without needing validation from a religion. 😊
Being autistic, I’m naturally very curious about the world around me and how things work. And from my experience, religion and curiosity do not mix well. Every time I tried to make sense of Christianity, I was either told “God works in mysterious ways” or reprimanded for being “disrespectful”. Apparently you simply have to accept what you’re told at face value, don’t even attempt to understand it, and shut up. Fuck that shit. But I know why it’s the case. That’s the only way it can survive. Because I kept questioning Christianity, and the more research I did, I found out that there are tons of contradictory viewpoints, and “experts” will have completely different explanations from each other. So nobody really knows what they’re talking about. Then I asked myself “How do we even know this stuff is true in the first place?” We don’t. If you question it or try to make sense of it, it simply falls apart at the seams. That’s why we’re told to shut up and punished for being curious. Curiosity is every religion’s kryptonite. From that point, it didn’t take long until I fully became an atheist. I had nightmares about God getting pissed and sending me to hell. But now that I’m a complete atheist, I don’t have those nightmares anymore. I’m actually really glad I’m not religious anymore. Church was always boring and felt like a waste of time. And I didn’t really care about an afterlife. If I cease to exist, I won’t exist to care about it. Besides, wouldn’t heaven get boring after a while? The only reason I was religious in the first place was because I was afraid of going to hell. One thought I constantly tried to suppress was “Why can’t God just leave us alone? Why do we have to be a part of his sick twisted game of ‘Sort the Souls’?” But it appears I got my wish. Because there is no god! 😁 (At least not the ones depicted in any of the religions.)
I just have to say, study of the Bible, with someone who actually knows what it's about, and uses only Bible verses to answer Bible questions, can help clear some things up. My religion rewards curiosity. Some real Bible answers concerning some of the topics you mentioned: (yes, I CAN back all these up with scriptures) * Blind faith is not encouraged. The definition of faith, in the original language, is presented in legal terms (evident demonstration), as having the title deed to a property you have not yet seen. Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen." Asking questions and finding the truth are encouraged. We are supposed to seek "accurate knowledge" and "examine the scriptures" and "test the inspired word". Proverbs 14:15 "The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step." Acts 17:2,3 "So according to Paul’s custom he went inside to them, and for three sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, saying: “This is the Christ, this Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you.” " Acts 17:11 "11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." Romans 12:1 "Therefore, I appeal to you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason." Colossian 1:9,10 "That is also why from the day we heard of it, we have never stopped praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, 10 so as to walk worthily of Jehovah in order to please him fully as you go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God;" Hebrews 14:1 "But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong." The carefully examining, the power of reason, discernment, accurate knowledge and comprehension, are all seen as goals to aspire to have or use. Blind faith would not fit with these admonishments. People who expect blind faith either don't know the answers, or know them, and don't like the implications, if they're not teaching things directly from the Bible. * Why so many contradictory viewpoints if they're all christians and supposedly base their teachings on the Bible? The Bible warned about an apostasy that would rise up from the early congregation, teaching commands of men as doctrines, appearing to be true, but in fact, being false. People would gather many teachers who would "tickle their ears" with things they wanted to hear, while they turned away from what the Bible teaches, because it would force them to change how they lived their lives. This would last for centuries. In the "last days", the distinction between those truly serving God, and those not, would become blatantly obvious as things were cleaned up, creating a people for his name. (this would take a bunch more scriptures to explain in detail.) * "Eternal torment in hell" is not a thing taught in the Bible. Death and "the grave (sometimes translated hell)" will be destroyed in the lake of fire that is called "the second death", which offers no hope of release - things thrown there are gone forever. 1 Corinthians 15:26 "And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing." Revelation 20:14 "And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Souls die. Ezekiel 18:4 4 Look! All the souls-to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son-to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die." A dead person cannot do anything that a living person can do, such as think or do things, or suffer. Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 10 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten." "10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." * Heaven isn't the only destination for good people - those who go there are going for a reason (to rule as kings and priests as part of a limited number who are needed fill roles in that heavenly government, to manage affairs on an earth filled with good people.) (this would take quite a few more scriptures to explain) I've flooded you with quite a bit for now, not even knowing if you'll read this, but hopefully, others who have felt the way you do, will read this and see THERE ARE ANSWERS out there... it's just most religions don't actually teach what is found in the Bible, they teach the commands of men as doctrines.
I remeber hearing my religious mom and aunt discussing how being gay is “unnatural” and as a gay kid with a critically thinking brain, I said “but gay animals exist” and I was pretty much told to shut up and respect the beliefs, because religious belief is an excuse to discriminate against gay people and spread lies, and if you ask questions or challenge the logic (lack of logic more accurately) you are told you are disrespectful
@@Twink6629-lg3teI think a better argument is “It’s natural, but that doesn’t make it moral”. It’s also natural for animals to eat their young, but you wouldn’t use that to justify humans doing it would you? Just because something is “natural”, it isn’t necessarily morally right, and that’s homosexuality.
Wish I could have watched this when I was 10, back in the 90's. It would have helped a lot. Unfortunately, autism wasn't really a thing people talked about or understood back then.
I'm a Christian, but I can't do organized religion. I have tried so many churches and denominations, but never been accepted, anymore than anywhere else. I expected much more from church, but learned the hard way that chuch is the vanguard of social exclusivity. I wonder how neurotypical single women navigate the prevalent mysoginy. And then during meet and greet, I start looking for escape routes. Most churches teach eternal security anyway, which is horrible, and unscriptural. I really love your statement: "Stop doing what everyone else expects, just because they expect it." Still, I really wish there were someplace I could safely go for corporate worship.
Italian-American woman here. I hate religious misogyny. I left Catholicism at age 9. Zero interest in returning. One of my special interests is religious history and another is archaeology. I know more about religious texts than most believers. Myths are stories. They speak more about human psychology than they do about any god beings. Further, morality is not owned by religion. If people find comfort in community and ritual, that’s fine as long as they keep their dogma to themselves.
Me too! And it is so difficult for most people to understand my interest in religious history and texts since both religious and non-religious people have issues with my academic interest either way!
Prisons are built with stones of law. Brothels are built with bricks of religion. William Blake. Those words changed my entire life. Anyone else who understands this? 24:16
Myths strive to transcend a culture as you can see in Greek mythology. Some might have been caricatures of real things in life like the Cyclops and/or what seemed to be reflected in reality as in Greek philosophy. Of course myth was amplified and philosophy simplified. Yet many of the mythic stories including superheroes esp like Thanos is about good and evil. Evil will destroy earth and a Hercules or a band of superheroes need to battle the evil darkness. Perhaps the Bible gets closer to defining reality. Wherein most myths have 40% truth mixed in the Bible has 80 or 90% truth; that reality is represented more even over Bhagavad Gita or Dharmic/Tripiṭaka. I love archaeology and there's a lot of evidence being found for the paleo-Hebraic, Solomonic and Daric periods. Even the Tower of Babel ruins- probably considered a myth by you - can be viewed in Iraq. How much evidence is there for Hinduism, Bhuddism, Jannism or LDS...?
For me, my autistic fascination with religion is in its deep stories and myths, as well as the rich cultures of different religions. That said, I'm an atheist, but I love hearing about religions and their influences on our culture.
I’m autistic and I also have ADHD. I was highly indoctrinated into fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. I believe my mother is autistic and you described what I have thought about her 100%. We are the perfect example of two autistic people who are the complete opposite on religion. My mother is a rigid thinking and displays alexithymia (low understanding of her emotions, low emotional intelligence, theory of mind deficits). I am, conversely, a very intuitive and open-minded thinker and I am so in touch with my emotions and internal world that I can get lost in them. We are, essentially, polar opposites. If our mother/child roles had been reversed, I think it would have been a healthier match. Unfortunately, as it is, my relationship with my mom feels incredibly sad and tragic to me and is a source of incredible pain. She was not a nurturing mother and entirely emotionally neglectful as a parent. I believe religion is her safety, sure, but I still see it as harmful because it has proved to be an enabler for her behavior - it has ultimately stifled her growth as a person and is an immovable barrier that keeps her from being able to any kind of meaningful connection with me. In her mind, she is correct and we don’t have a better relationship because I’m not a Christian (aka, I’m so sinful and bad). She views it as her burden and cross to bear, an me refuses to acknowledge that there’s anything for her to learn about emotions or social skills, etc. Religion has provided her with a set of social rules to live by, and a group of people to be around so she can feel like she has people (even if she is really only acquaintances with these people and has no close friends because she doesn’t understand emotional intimacy). Because religion makes her feel like knows how to live life (and is right) and has social group, she has no motivation to learn anything else. Her religion even explains why her children aren’t close to her (we aren’t Christians…it’s us, not her…). So religion has even taken away her motivation to figure out how to connect with her kids. For me, I simply felt, socially, like I was on the outside looking in at Church. I was a fussy kid, often uncomfortable in some way because I was too hot, too cold, too stressed, to thirsty, to hungry, too itchy, too something. I received no sympathy for my behavior because “grumbling and complaining is a sin.” Instead of kindness and sympathy and listening to my needs, I was constantly singled out for being bad and sinful (“you’re the only one with a bad attitude - you need to have an attitude of gratitude. What would God think about your behavior?” Stuff like that). I thought I was such a bad person as a child and constantly afraid I was going to hell because, if I was saved, surely I would act like a better person. Socially, I wasn’t treated well at church and as a teenager I felt extremely “othered” by my mother for not being her rigid view of what I should be. I wasn’t ok with being treated badly by my parents or any church leaders (why should they have an arbitrary right to be obeyed and submitted to?? They were just random people to me and they were wrong). so I was labeled “rebellious,” “unsubmissive to god,” and “disrespectful” by so many adults and friends. I felt like I had no social support and I was only misunderstood and eventually ostracized as a young adult to the point of being suicidal. After that, I left the church and continued to see more and more inconsistencies with theology, science, and simply my lived experience (ex. I met gay people, and they were nicer than the Christians I’d known). Also, as a kid and teen, I really hated church and never liked a single thing about it. With ADHD, I found it extremely boring. I was constantly uncomfortable in church clothes and couldn’t wait to get home to change my clothes. The service was always freezing cold to the point I couldn’t stand it. I liked it at one point as an older teen and young adult because I found a group I felt more social connection with, but then I was ostracized. Christianity is still so triggering to me, and I feel like it is an immovable wall between me and my mom, which is incredibly painful. I feel like organized religion has robbed me of so much in life. I recognize that it can be good for some people, and I believe in religious liberty, but personally I think it does more harm than good and I hate it. I think a lot of autistic people who leave the church are atheist, and I was for awhile. It didn’t sit well with me so I explored more and now I’m spiritual (had no idea what that meant until I was). I’m at peace with who I am and what I believe, I just still feel so triggered by Christianity and deeply sad and wounded by all of the toxicity it’s brought me. I hope I’ll heal enough that one day I won’t be triggered by it anymore, but I’m not sure if that will ever happen.
I often wonder if I'll ever feel completely over it. Every day I think of what I missed out on because hellfire and brimstone bullshit made me paranoid. I said if the Total Recall movie happened, I'd buy in, just so I could have fake good childhood memories implanted to overwrite the holy gaslight of childhood.
I grew up LDS and it was a living hell for someone like me. I was coaxed into a serving a mission? It was a living hell back then autistic traits were seen as having a lack of faith. They basically destroyed me emotionally.
Role models of autism in religion can also be helpful. Examining the life of the prophet Elijah, for example, may be character that a person with autism could relate to. Also, many of the 'desert fathers' and 'religious hermits' from earlier Christian eras may be relatable.
I agree, in my church we have these books available. The ancient writings of Christianity will fill at least a few bookshelves, I see them every Sunday. I didn’t know these books even existed until I left modern Christianity for ancient Christianity which led me to Orthodoxy. As related to the video, our services are orderly, we don’t get yelled at from the pulpit, just normal speech, no loud bands, flashing lights etc. in my experience, the people seem to be less judgemental than in some other churches, but there is always the chance that someone is being a knucklehead, so just ignore them.
Well even Jesus. Cant be more straight foward and blunt than Jesus. He also got rejected because no body understood him. As an autist, i think its really easy to relate to Jesus
I'm an autistic Christian man, and, in addition to that, I see religion and science as essentially opposite ends of the same spectrum of relating to truth as human beings (the known occupying both ends of the spectrum and the unknown occupying the middle). I find compartmentalization difficult to justify because even though the unknown separates what we know by observation from what we know by revelation, it's all truth, known or unknown. That's why I feel teleological thinking isn't particularly comforting to me. I already know that religion is on the other side of the unknown. Reminding myself of something I already know, but that doesn't help me predict future outcomes in similar circumstances and optimize my behavior for more desirable results, doesn't provide much solace. In fact, it can feel a bit annoying. If there are logical principles connecting the teleological train of thought, though, I find that comforting. I've found that my religion provides those principles, but most people aren't aware of them, which can make them hard to refresh in conversation (my favorite way to review). I agree that churches are often full of hypocrisy, shaming, and overwhelming stimuli. Yet, I've found a comprehensive aggregation of biblical morality (both New Testament and Old Testament) to be a comprehensive dataset for structuring my own moral framework, and I value the fresh perspectives and simplifying new connections I gain at church when others share their religious experiences or the results of their own study. This dichotomy between fatal flaws and valuable contributions makes me want to reform churches and help make them safer places for neurodivergent people. I agree that implementing accommodations in churches is an important aspect of building a good church. I've seen a lot of great progress toward being more autism friendly in churches I've attended over the years. That progress has inspired me with the vision that neurotypical church members embracing a more neurodiverse way of doing things. Here are a few examples At one church I went to, one of the AV team leaders made a point of keeping the measured volume in the church below a certain decibel level--I rarely had problems with the sound (like I do nearly every week I forget earplugs currently). The church choir was open to just about anyone, so enough people there knew how to sing well that congregational singing wasn't bad. Another church I went to was especially welcoming and genuinely accepting. After a little explanation, even the most traditional members started to recognize that different people serve God in different ways and stopped badgering people--which is saying a lot because the church was small enough that it was hard to find enough people to do everything each week. Multiple churches I've attended have had programs that let people choose what things, how many things, and how much of each thing they want to contribute to the church, if any. If all the members that want to get involved in whatever ways they want, even a small church can thrive. It might be a little nontraditional for a while, but it will grow.
I've definitely thought about this on and off over the years. Most ND people I know do not subscribe to any organized religion. Like, it just doesn't make sense. But I can see that for some, the routine and community is helpful, as long as it's not overwhelming or damaging in any way. Curious if the religious NT world thinks we are heathens because we cannot be forced to comply and be just like them...
Raised evangelical here, now atheist for a lot of the reasons stated. I can confirm that they absolutely do, along with several other horrible and usually ableist things.
My experience has been different. I've been raised and still am Christian, and while I met my fair share of religious NTs that think we are heathens for not believing like them, and even more so if we've left the church, I've found many who believe that even people who leave the church have hope even if they don't come back to church ever again. From what I can tell, though, to some degree inside and to a larger degree outside my denomination, it's a majority who feel like you said. I just think that there's a significant and growing minority who aren't so toxic about people who leave or choose not to join the church. After all, it's pretty common to say that church should be a home for everyone who believes in God, although acting that way is often another story. Nonetheless, I've seen many churches I've attended start being more understanding.
@@amiebabineau1418 Ableism in the church is really frustrating for me, too. If they even have a reason for it (instead of arbitrary bigotry), I think it stems from a fear of a lack of faith. The Bible says being actuated by that kind of fearfulness is unacceptable, (Rev. 21:8) so that's still a problem, even from their perspective--as long as they actually believe the Bible. This part'll probably sound a little preachy... This is my best shot at expressing a concern I've felt ever since I first heard about ableism. If I've learned helplessness in some situation, (through trauma or other unfortunate means) mislabeling someone's albeit horrible attempt at encouraging me to overcome my learned helplessness as ableism seems like not only accepting my helplessness a present reality, but accepting it as an unchangeable, almost sacred one. I do not want to make that mistake. I anticipate that it would be a painful and limiting mistake that could last a lifetime, and I just want to say something in case it can save you that experience. For me, the solution includes a great deal of introspection to distinguish possible ableism from garden-variety cruelty or even just bad manners. Also, I'm not convinced that I can tell if someone is ableist or just misguided without reading their minds, which obviously I can't, and that helps me give them the benefit of the doubt, while still taking action to limit my exposure to ableism (usually to them in general as a source of ableism in my life). That way, I don't feel resentful or vengeful, sometimes not even a little. Instead, I feel wise and grateful to be learning better boundaries. I hope that you can have the same experience. That said, ableism is still definitely a thing, and I'm passionate about fighting ableism in the churches I attend.
It would make sense that monasteries and nunneries would be a good place for a lot of the autistic of the past to hang out. It varied from. place to place, but in many of them, they would spend lots of solitude and or silence, and generally some sort of meditation. There would have been education, and often lots of emphasis on studying texts closely and perhaps writing commentaries on them, giving talks, predictable routines, and so forth. It could be a lot nicer then the chaotic, difficult, and often uneducated people outside those walls.
Add in the opportunity for creating very structured art, whether that be calligraphy and illumination, or depictions of your god, where you are honing a skill, coordination, that some autists find challenging (others don't - again, we're all different in our presentation of autism), and able to exercise some level of creativity within clearly defined parameters. Personally, I'm not religious, but I am spiritual, and I was never closer to the power of the universe around me than when I was doing something repetitive in the great outdoors, involving animals, with clearly defined goals and parameters, but freedom on the exact way of reaching those goals. Similarly, military life and pursuits are governed strongly by routines, and by rules and regulations, and I thrived in that environment. Not having somewhere to burn off excess energy within my job made simply existing a struggle, so I can absolutely understand why some autistic folks would find the routine and labor of a monastery, nunnery, or temple to be soothing and enjoyable. A medieval me would likely have thrived in one of the same professions I found myself in the modern day - a squire to a sensible and understanding knight.
Well said! I cannot put into words, the hatred, upset, disdain, and animosity I have towards my faith. I hang on because of the fear of hell because somehow I feel like like my loved ones will be taken care of. I’m a stalemate in life and it sucks. I feel like a lot of my autistic traits and hardships I am able to overcome socially, like I never imagined, though I still struggle. I feel like I’ve almost discovered myself, but then the door got shut because of my Catholic faith. Mind you I’m not bashing the church or anything like that. It may be a bad example and I may pay for it because it’s what I said may lead others from God. See this is where it is..
Here's a suggestion for parents - don't lie to your kids. Don't tell them anything that you can't back up with evidence, because they will find the evidence, they will work out that the religion doesn't make sense, that the claims it makes don't track with the reality that they can see with their own eyes. They will resent being punished and abused for simply asking questions that make sense to them, and they will resent you for lying to them.
I totally get your point cause I really really don’t like people of my belief that go like “it’s like this and not otherwise”, when the religion I’m a part of has seen so many scholars that approached it in a study like manner and logical manner. So I cooked a version of what I would call my “branch” it’s more logical, it makes sense and it’s fascinating because I never agreed with how everybody around me views it.
I think about how many parents and clergy keep repeating things like "Just pray harder, bro" and not getting results. They find reddit and conclude it's all 2000 years fairy tales.
I'm not against religion. I'm against religion measuring their members' spiritual health by how compliant they are or available they make themselves to it. I don't like being labeled as a liability. I don't like being 'love bombed'. I don't like being threatened for questioning doctrine. I love my personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I love how I get the information I need, when I need it [for correction, comfort, or want to upgrade my skill sets to deal with life, or to understand what some wording or circumstances meant back in the day in the scriptures...]. Observing other people's beliefs and what they get out of them [religious, professional, or personal] is fascinating for me.
I follow a path that I created out of my former one by removing what was toxic. My path is now between myself and the Source of All Things and nobody else. I now enjoy complete spiritual liberty as a result.
This is an incredibly well done look into religions. I'm still in a shifting state of awe and confusion that you are willing\able to give both sides of the coin while not letting it land hard on one (your preferred) side. Very well done.
Just as Autistic persons are diverse in their differing traits, so are religions. I am an Autistic Christian and have found that Autism is restrictive in a Neurotypical world just as being a believing practicing Christian is restrictive in a non Christian world where there are pagans, atheists, agnostics etc and Protestants with differing beliefs to each other. I have also found liberation and comfort in my Christian Faith in God and as well as this, have found a host of autistic 'square pegs' like myself who have spent years trying to fit and squeeze into the round holes of the Neurotypical world, in family life, employment and social communities, but I now have found comfort, sense and understanding in my discovery that I am Autistic. Autism is my friend who accepts my difference and I can accept my 'square peg' ID and do not have to justify or conform to fit in any longer. If people dont accept me because I am diverse, then that's their problem, not mine. Likewise, they do not have to fit into my world either. My husband is a NT Non believer but we are facing the challenges together and after 20 years of marriage, we know that the externals are not as important as our internal identities as loving, caring human beings. I like what you have said on this video a lot, and find it tolerant, respectful, and helpful 😊 I dont take too much notice of intolerant bigots any more, whether they are rude and intolerant towards religion or not. Nor do I worry avout intolerant bigots who dont like Autists either. My husband has taught me a lot 😅 Thank you for this insightful and helpful presentation. As an aside, we have a lot of Autistic people who attend our Orthodox community and they are very valuable and helpful members. 🕊️
I never even reached a point where rejecting religion was even possible for me to do. Religion rejected me. I was run out in the name of being kept in. As a child there was nothing at all abnormal or even remotely unusual about being beaten for blasphemy whenever I was asked what I got out of reading scripture. Unfortunately it never occurred to me to tell her whatever lies she wanted to hear because they weren't true. Of course I wasn't aware of it as a child, but it turns out that despite having been a Christian from 4-18, I never actually accepted that religion was true so much as I just took it for granted that abusive liars were loving, trustworthy, and looking out for my best interests. Don't even get me started on the afterlife. I'm going to be 40 on my next birthday and I still can't figure out any better than I could at 6 what is not horrifically terrifying about the concept of consciousness continuing in any context for any amount of time after the cessation of heart, lung, and brain function. In the end though, the biggest mistake that people constantly made with me was telling an autistic child that the Bible is to be taken literally. I'll never forget the confusion and sense of betrayal at having been lied to when I was 4 and my mom was trying to walk back what she had just said about the devil being on my shoulder, whispering in my ear, to get me to do wrong when she realized that she was already losing me because I couldn't feel his weight on my shoulder or hear his voice in my ear. By the time I had a good grasp on metaphor it was years too late to undo the damage.
Certainly not every church has ear piercing worship volume!! You should certainly visit a few different kinds that are not interested in having a loud entertaining band. Call around and ask about the worship style of a congregation before going. Some have piano or organ as the only instruments; some sing a cappella. You can find more peaceful, contemplative worship styles. I have found this in many rural churches, as well as Mennonites and Brethren of most types, Church of Christ, Nazarene, Free Methodist and Wesleyan Churches. There are a wide variety of options available - please search, and you will find! 💙🙏🏽☮️
WOW! This has been something I have been longing to understand for a very long time. I have always had a supportive family with our religious devotion to the Catholic faith, and there have been some hiccups on the way, but I have grown a lot since learning about the diagnosis I had as a young pre-teen. I am now fully understanding what this can mean for me, it's all about knowing yourself better than anyone else. I originally thought of the idea lately while I was in the shower and boyyyyy am I happy I did!
i want to know the TRUTH, i dont want "faith" seeing what "faith" (such as faith in the governmental systems) has braught us to this point we are now....... just have faith in god! let the elite destroy the planet and turn around and blam you!
My mother used to take me to (Anglican) church on Sundays but, by that point, I already understood (special interest in mythology at a young age) that humans invented gods to tell stories about things they didn't understand. Our ancestors didn't know that sometimes things just happen, according to natural laws, so they assign agency to those events - something must have made them happen. My autism and ADHD led to me being bullied relentlessly throughout school. I finally accepted that there was no god, when I prayed desperately EVERY NIGHT for the bullying to stop - for them to leave me alone for just one day, to give me a break. Of course, nothing ever changed and the bullying continued. That's when I fully, consciously acknowledged that nobody is listening, nobody cares and that praying achieves nothing, except to make the person doing the praying feel a bit better about something. I have always been a "why?" kid - always wanting to know how and why stuff worked the way it did, wanting to understand the rules of the universe. Whenever a parent or teacher would tell me to do something a certain way, I'd always have to ask "why?", especially when I could see a more logical or simpler or more effective way of doing it that achieved the desired outcome. Of course, the response was always along the lines of "don't ask stupid questions" or "because I said so". I learned that this is just a way for adults to silence any questioning or dissent - an authoritarian response that is condescending and belittling, often betraying the fact that they knew no more than I did about whatever they were talking about. It was never a good enough response for me when it came from adults, so when I learned that religions use the same tactic to avoid having their belief system undermined by awkward questions, I became highly suspicious. It didn't take me much longer to realise that the whole edifice was a house of cards, teetering atop a foundation of pre-scientific myths and legends that were often at odds with what we know and can demonstrate with evidence. More recently, I came across some studies that suggest autistic people are actually less prone to being swayed by religious BS - we are better at seeing through the scam than NTs. I guess that's one more reason to be grateful for my neurodivergence.
Your point about evolution was also a factor for me - I had already rejected religion by the time I was an adult, but when I went online and saw religious people repeating blatant falsehoods and misrepresenting what science has shown us about the natural world, all in service of their gods, that was the final nail in the coffin. If you have to lie about reality, misrepresent facts, and distort the truth to make your mythology make any kind of sense, then you've already lost the argument.
it is a common complaint among clergy that many people identify as 'spiritual but not religious'; but as a person with autism (no longer theistic), I can firmly say I identified as 'religious but not spiritual'
I am autistic. I am Aspergers to be exact. I found out in 2015. I am now 62. I am a Christian since 1982. But I also have Alexithymia which said to be co-morbid with Aspergers. A big % of Aspergers will have Aspergers. You can have both, just one or neither. Alexithymia is Greek for "without words". It means you don' recognise your emotions and have trouble recognising emotions in others
Diagnosed autistic here. Thank you so much for this objective approach to Autism and religion. This is an excellent video. I have been wanting to start a RUclips channel outlining my experience but have been held back by ADHD perfectionism. But when I finally get there , this is one of the topics I want to tackle. My thought process is similar to yours in taking on an objective approach. I have seen plenty of videos on this subject but most of them are anecdotal based on personal experiences rather than the facts surrounding the autistic neurotype and how that plays a role into belief or nonbelief. I’ll break down my points via comments below because I know RUclips limits the amount of text.
Logic is a great part of Autism and therefore it is necessary to find logic for or against religion. Most of the content I’ve seen is logic against. I believe logic can be applied FOR. There’s a great clip from Young Sheldon season 2, Episode 3, where the notorious atheistic younger version of Sheldon tries to comfort his mother who finds herself questioning the existence of God after a neighbors teenage daughter dies in a car accident. Sheldon’s mother tells him “Faith means believing in something you can’t know for sure is real” Sheldon thoughtfully replies “Did you know that if gravity were slightly more powerful the Universe would collapse into a ball? Also, if gravity were slightly less powerful the universe would fly apart and there would be no stars or planets” “Where are you going with this Sheldon?” his mother asks “It’s just that gravity is precisely as strong as it needs to be. If the ratio of the electromagnetic force to the strong force wasn’t 1% life wouldn’t exist. What are the odds that would happen all by itself?” She asks “Why are you trying to convince me to believe in God? YOU don’t believe in God!” “I don’t” young Sheldon replies… “But the precision of the universe at least makes it logical to conclude there’s a creator” From my own perspective, knowing that matter cannot be created or destroyed, one must ask themselves where matter originated from. It’s not illogical to conclude that there would have to exist a creator that has always existed that defies the laws and rules of physics that put those laws into place. These points fall under your point of religion explaining things that science cannot for some on the spectrum.
I also identify with all of the things you mentioned regarding the sensory nightmare that is church. The lights, music that is way too loud, off key singers, & fellowship. Emotional displays in others is also extremely uncomfortable for me which is common in churches. I detach my discomfort from the journey of others and accommodate myself where I can, as you so wisely suggested. Loop earplugs are a life saver. My next point is the purpose of Autism if there is a creator. I’ll start with one of my favorite quotes: “If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will go its whole life thinking it is dumb.” Autism has a lot of benefits. Logic, perception, empathy, information organization, individual steadfastness, etc. HOWEVER, some of the drawbacks can seem to run counterintuitive to Gods purpose for us. Lack of emotion (love for a relationship with God), introversion (love others as yourself)… I believe God created and has a purpose for each neurotype so this is an extremely difficult area to navigate. I’m no square - I was raised in the church but lived alternative lifestyles for many years which intuitively went against my upbringing. I had a major life event that brought me back into church which I initially fought against on an internal level. I feel contrarian in so many areas including employment, social norms, trends, etc… and church is no exception... but my moral compass exists despite this.
Regarding individual personal experiences in the church: The negative personal experiences that add to an autistics rejection of religion are valid. I personally have had bad experiences with people in the church, just as I have had in school or in places of employment. Below I use biblical references but NONE of this is intended to be an argument of authority. These references are only assumed valid on the God exists side of the debate: There’s a verse in the bible that talks about ‘the way’ being narrow and few that find it. Assuming God exists, it explains the statistical likelihood that more likely, unfortunately, people will encounter ‘not good’ Christians. Some intentional, some unintentional. Because I like to think of everything in charts and percentages, I surmise the people that most closely resemble God on this earth are maybe 3%. The measurement of a person most closely resembling God is subjective and supernatural in a way I can’t claim to quantify but something I perceive exists. God specifically mentions some people that were ‘after his own heart’ like David or even Job. The bible says God was proud of Job. Doesn’t mean 97% of the world will go to hell or that God doesn’t love 97% of the world. God told the sinner on the cross next to him he would be in heaven with him that day. It just means that there are few that really 'resemble Jesus' and thus, there is a greater likelihood of encountering intentional evil or non intentional hurt in the church.
My conclusion for the need of having a nonpartisan approach to this subject is because I believe God gave all of us free will. I’m personally a libertarian and believe people should be given the information to make their own decisions. A Christian should show others God’s love, educate (give them the information), and allow them to make the decision. While I have a personal view and hope that everyone would come to know God I believe in providing logical information and allowing others to make a decision. I believe this mimics the free will God gave us. I strongly identified with so many of your points. The need for purpose in everything (money and tithing or standing and kneeling), autistic aspects of individual steadfastness, lack of teleological concepts (which can also apply to an atheistic sense of destiny or fate), giving concrete and logical explanations of the bible, etc. As a side note because I have no other place to put this point categorically: There are measurable biological and neurological statistics to support the higher instance of non gender conforming/LGBT population in the autistic community when compared to the neurotypical population. Females on the spectrum also tend to have higher androgenous profiles, biologically. This needs to be acknowledged and understood about Autism as a basic fact and included in these discussions. In closing I really REALLY wish there were seminars available for church leaders to learn about neurodivergence. They are just as susceptible to misunderstanding neurodivergence as any other neurotypical. Thank you again for this original and nuanced content. New subscriber here.
@@NeurodiverJENNt I hope you get a channel going in youtube, I'd subscribe to you. I too am autistic, in my channel I simply, slowly, and quietly narrate some book of the bible. Drop by anytime and listen. And let me know when you're up and running
I was raised in a very vanilla Lutheran environment and generally cool with it, but felt it too shallow and was super not suggestible and just figured out what made sense to me and rejected what didn't. Fast forwards to my early 20's, I had a series of peak experiences or mystical experiences. Got me to fill up the disk space of studying everything mysticism and the contemplative meditative traditions. Religion felt so basic and simplistic in comparison to mysticism. I also realized recently that I really identified with mystics throughout history because they're like me, don't fit in, are rejected everywhere they go, they seem to exist in a different space than the average population. Both science and religion rejects the mystics. They're like me! Like us! It was like, "wait, you can follow a path of examining self intensely in a systematic way and not have to believe in anything abstract, and/or the metaphors and stories of religion we can systematically learn how these very abstract dogmatics things become more and more concrete human experiences rather than abstract, unverifiable things? Sign me up!!"
Hey Dr. Service. I absolutely love your content! Hopefully a constructive note - Maybe consider grabbing a LAV mic for future videos. As an autistic person, the quality of the audio, paired with the overwhelming background noise was torture that I had to sit through in order to hear your great content! Best wishes, looking forward to more videos!
Thank you so much for your videos and helping to shed more and more of a light on the wonders and intricacies of being neurodivergent - it's so important as so much is misunderstood. I have just recently realized at 48 I am neurodivergent and ADHD. Your videos and those of others on the spectrum have been invaluable!!!
I was bullied in church just as much as I was in school. I DID tell the adults but they either laughed at me and told me their child would never do such a thing (they did, just not when Mama was looking), or was told to ignore it.
@@misspinkpunkykat The classic indifference from the NT adults in authority. Another popular answer in my childhood life was, "They tease you because they like you." Umm, NO, you blankety-blank grownups, they are NOT stealing food from my lunchbox because they like me AND they are NOT throwing rocks at me because they like me.
Is there a correlation between autism and mysticism? I am self diagnosed and pretty mystical. I am on my fourth religion, one without a lot of rigidity and with a lot inclusiveness. I am there to be part of a like minded community. Even within this community, I maintain my independence of thought.
When I was a child, especially in my teens, I was deeply religious. I LOVED my religion, loved the communal aspects of church, etc. I did have some cognitive dissonance. I knew evolution made a lot of sense, the age of the earth didn't jive with biblical teaching, etc. But despite that, I enjoyed my belief. At some point as an adult, I came to grips that, while I was still a christian, I didn't consider the bible to be literally true. I thought about all the signs that my beliefs were false, and thought about what reasons I had for believing. All the reasons I could think of involved wanting certain things to be true (afterlife, seeing my dad and other loved ones again, etc.), but I couldn't think of any rational, evidentiary reasons why I should accept my religious beliefs to be true. After that night, I was an atheist. Today, I'm quite comfortable with my disbelief. I also recognized some things that weren't so healthy about my previous religious beliefs - feeling guilt over trivial sins that really aren't evil at all, having an imaginary thought police judging my every thought, etc. Struggling with cognitive dissonance wasn't so great. I missed out on some fun during my high school years. I'm no longer making sacrifices for an afterlife that isn't ever going to happen. I no longer mourn for dead family members who I believed were in hell simply for having the wrong religious beliefs (which was a huge mindfuck for a kid.) Up until I was half way through high school, I was in a church that believed that you could lose your salvation if you had any unforgiven sins when you died. When I was baptized, I actually prayed to god and BEGGED him to take my life soon before I had a chance to mess up my salvation. I didn't think about how mentally unhealthy that was until years after I got out. So yeah, at the time I was religious, I at least thought I enjoyed it, and truly enjoyed the communal aspects of it. But I just wasn't aware of how much it harmed me.
"Even at my best, I an unworthy"- a sign in front of a local church. Enough said, thanks for the reminder, but no thanks, my "devout" Hereticism will do just fine for me- I render more than enough to Ceasar on behalf of my earthly estate without the additional expense of keeping up with the Joneses paying rents on an unearthly one. And if there's any truth at all to be found in all that spilled ink I'll read it for myself.
Dr., seriously, your videos are amazing! They go much further than the average subjects most videos cover. It's impressive how I truly identify with such characteristics that even after my diagnosis, I didn't know they were autistic behaviors. I thought they were just my personal way of being. Thanks a lot for your work. Greetings from Brazil.
Just not caring would be what my religion was for many years and I still don't care. But I've formulated a good response. Found humanism about a decade ago, because as a joke for years instead of saying I was jewish or christian I would say I was a humanist. Finally looked up the word and discovered humanism. And its pretty must what I had always imagined the word to mean. I'm very happy the word means intuitively what it sounds like. So now when I say I am a humanist I really mean it, it just so happens the morals and traits that I have developed and nurtured over the years align with what humanism is about.
Thank you, thank you for this video. This explains some of my experiences, especially after questions. I will keep this comment short but again, thank you.
As an autistic agnostic semi-antitheist, I suspect one reason so many autistic people wouldn't follow a given religion is that we take its claims too seriously. If a religious figure is portrayed as doing things I consider heinous, then I can't just ignore those and I'm too honest to pretend those actions are somehow good.
24:28 My current partner once accused me of not caring about others because I said something to the effect of "I don't care what others think of me, so long as they have enough accurate information to make a valid opinion" (basically, so long as they at least try to get to know me or at least don't pre-judge me, I don't mind if they love or hate me. My feelings on how they treat me is unrelated to this). This absolutely infuriated me. I happen to care about most people a lot. More than I realistically should, probably. I can hardly bring myself to hate others, and even if I do I still end up caring about them in a human "I'd rather you be safe and content" way. I clarified the miscommunication, but it was very frustrating to be told something like that from someone who gets a front row seat to how much I actually care and the ways I go out of my way to express it.
I have ASD and am working on my MDiv and am about to begin a Chaplaincy internship. I also believe evolution is compatible with the Bible. The Hebrew word for day in Genesis 1 is "Yom" and just means a period of time. The point of Genesis 1 is not a scientific but a theological explanation based on monotheism in an ancient world dominated by polytheism. My seminary offers an MA in Mental Health Counseling and I want to combine the two.
Thank you for chiming in. I love that you are looking to become a licensed clinician. We need more that are neurodivergent and have a solid knowledge of religion. Best of luck to you on your journey.
Theological over historical account as reflection on God’s creative power and His sovereignty over the created order as indicated in the ‘framework hypothesis’ of Meredith Kline, Henri Blocher et al. In the "Theological Perspective" the text is seen as having no relevance in determining the sequence of events at the time of origins. Hopefully that didn't patronize yah more as a summ for others and a signal that I kinda understand. Perhaps it's not a question of Hebrew textual exegesis but rather a hermeneutical conclusion driven by factors external to the text and really doesnt annul the historicity of the account. What do you think Joseph...?
Amazing! I am autistic, and Christianity is a special interest of mine. I also want to spread mental health awareness in the Christian community. I used to be a young earth creationist but last year I changed my mind because theistic evolutionists is compatible with the Bible and makes more sense.
i was diagnosed adhd when i was about 30... now im 60... my nephew is autistic.. in listening to ur presentions tonight..i now wonder if im not autistic to.. i hated church. i appreciate ur vids .. i am lost for words here ..but this makes so much sence to me.. i love the way ur telling "ourstory".. very powerful discussion
I am autistic and Catholic. I converted as an adult and although I didn’t know I was autistic at the time, there was a sense of feeling more welcomed as someone who is “different” than in the denomination I was born into. (Because look at all the saints! I think lots of them were autistic) However, I have a huge problem with priests who don’t do what the missal says to do, who go off on their own script or encourage their choir to do newer modern music that in my opinion is often grating to the ears. I prefer to go to a church that is by the book and has more traditional music. Some churches offer quiet masses too which is nice.
I was thinking about this playing by the rules thing recently. What's one of the first things you're introduced to as a infant? One of those toys that teach you shapes. Can't fit a square in a round hole can you? But the education system forces this very concept. A one size all education system.
Love the buffet concept. Love it. Not that it’s good to eat everything on the buffet, you can try a little bit of everything or at least put it on your plate before you get serious and go in on what you find best on your next more serious plate.
In Mormonism, honesty about their history and truthfulness, is frowned upon it drove me insane! I had a greater understanding of people and myself after studying evolution. It definitely help me become a better person.
I recently found this spiritual path known by several names; surat shabda yoga, sant mat, path of the masters, master path, etc. I've listened to lots of videos about it and it feels true. It makes everything make sense and ties things together that never made sense to me. Growing up in church, half of it made no sense to me, but this does about 99% of the time so far. I wish I'd have heard of it sooner. Luckily I eventually did. It feels like the missing pieces, or the key 🗝️ that make every religion make sense now. As for religion, I call myself a LaVeyan modern satanist. That fulfills any need i may have of religion. I'm really more of a spiritual person than a religious one.
Great discussion ty.. my Bf is on the spectrum, and a non believer. Years ago we had the discssion. He shared how he was thrown out of CCD class at age 8 for challenging the teacher. A pretty funny story. I am spiritual i believe. I explained to him that God the unseen brings me comfort. At a very early age i depemded on my belief system to get me through the things that were tragic in my life. We respect one anothers beliefs. We have good laughs about it too. 95% of the time i love his brain. I am a diagnosed ADHD er... lived in my own world for my lifetime,, So i really respect and do my best to understand Chris and his thought process. He truly is the most imteresting person i have ever met. ❤
It's about how religion is taught. It's dramatically dumbed down so that it can easily be used as a tool to wield power and extract money from people. This also leads for certain people to be attracted. Most of "religion" has nothing to do with religion. It's just a flavor of the usual NT game. There is some deeper knowledge to be found in religion, but it's buried under many levels of hypocrisy.
6:51 YES. YES. I was raised to believe that evolution is a lie from satan and that the earth is definitely less than 10,000 years old. That definitely helped get me out of the religion once I started accepting that science may be true.
I think that my oppositional defiant disorder and generally inquisitive nature make it impossible for me to be comfortable in organized group settings. Eventually I’m bound to ask the wrong question or blurt out the wrong thing. I’m one of those people who just can’t make any sense out of religion and I hate it when people try to “save” me. I find that to be the worst insult ever.
Hey Doc, I am in my 60's and have always been considered an odd duck. Never fit in, by my teens I had no desire to fit in because human society is rather fucked, and human beings are, by and large, greedy, selfish individuals who will destroy or damage others for their own gains, outside of the theatre of war. When I was a boy there was no such thing s an autism spectrum, you were ( I was ) either labeled as a delinquent, or disturbed, or just plain criminal. I watched your post about a neurodivergent world and felt like that is a world that makes fucking sense. Our human society does not, it is broken, and they will continue to damage the ecosystem until we are all extinct, for personal profit. That is insane, and as such leads me to conclude, decades ago now, that I live in an insane world. One cannot expect rationality, reason or logic to prevail, as the neuro typical make decisions not on reason, but irrationally, by emotions or by asking themselves what another person they respect might do in a situation. By and large they do not problem solve. Critical thinking is not something they champion. Am I to understand that there are a LOT of people like me? I am not diagnosed as on the spectrum, but I have an awful lot of the signs you mention, and the world you describe as non neurotypical would suit me to a T.
I was not considered autistic until my late 30s. Before then, I was just a misfit and outcast. Also, I saw everything as motivational coach platitudes.
I found my faith to be a bedrock in a world that had no apparent rules that I could discern. The more I study, the more I feel its truth and how it aligns with actual life. Added bonus: I absolutely LOVE research, and my faith opened up mountains of data, literal and figurative libraries to comb and research through, be it in archaeology, early church writings, church history, apologetics, philosophy, comparative religion or so many other avenues to delve into.
Excellent video. Thank you for making it, because it's very helpful for both non Neurodivergent and Neurodivergent. I myself recently realized I'm on the autism spectrum. I have had a lot of the same thoughts that you cover in this video, and have concluded, like you have, that each person is on their own path, and we should treat others with the respect that we would want them to treat us with, whatever our beliefs. I grew up in a Catholic family, but I have been on an interesting journey throughout my life to find the truth for me, and have found that I personally want to believe in the God, Yahuah of the Bible. I don't attend a church and I consider myself in the group called Hebrew Roots, which has diverse beliefs based on the Bible. The trouble comes in when humans interpret what the Bible is really saying, and it's not logical to try to understand something that was written thousands of years ago and apply modern ideas on culture, language, etc. that no longer exist and are hard to find in this point in time. But people are trying, and I think just trying and not giving up is something that I respect. I'm satisfied with this area of my life, at least.
Makes me happy to find someone else autistic who has reach a very similar conclusion as I have. I’m actually sort of Hebrew roots I guess. I loosely associate with theunexpectedcosmology (YT and Discord) and MTOI. The Sabbath was made for autist :)
We are on similar paths. I call God YA'OH. I am glad to see you comment. Many ppl in the comments see religion as trauma and tho I have experienced what they have my journey has brought me mainly with just myself a few friends and God and I am content and very happy in keeping the Commandments of God.
Jesus never liked religiosity. Religion is man made. Anything made by man is flawed, no exceptions. Jesus wants a personal relationship with His followers, which comes out of free will, not rules. You don't have to go to a church to have a relationship with Him. When Jesus speaks of 'the Church', He is not referring to a building or a denomination, but to the community, His followers. His church during His ministry years were public spaces, like a field, or a mountain, or under a tree, or in a town somewhere. Believing in evolution is a religion. What started the big bang? It is scientifically impossible to make even a grain of sand from nothing. Just my two cents.
I won't say what religion I am a part of, but I didn't know I was Autistic until my late 30's, which was well after I converted to my current religion. I wish I had known that I was Autistic before I converted. My inability to say no to people, when I don't want to do something, has led to hurt, pain, and a lot of struggle, especially to continue to be a part of my religion. People didn't know that I was Autistic. Religious practitioners just saw me as someone that would do whatever they wanted me to do....
I did not know I was autistic until I was in my early 40's. However I grew up in a very religious household that actually read the bible at home every day of the week, and went to services 3-4 times per week. As a result, I became a youth pastor when I turned 18, and my church even took up a collection to send me to seminary for formal pastoral training. I took my training very seriously, and wanted to be prepared to answer any question that came my way. Of course, this meant to ask any and every question I could while I studied the bible cover to cover. My asking questions led to being ousted from the church entirely. And the more I asked, the more ostracized I was. If you love your religion (Christianity in my case) and your beliefs in God, DO NOT read your bible, as doing so leads to questions which don't have good answers. And certainly DO NOT ask questions to find the truth. And most definitely DO NOT hold the belief that things which are TRUE can stand up to scrutiny! If you like believing in God and angels and demons and all of that, then just ignore reality, and just believe what you want without digging into it at all. My questions finally led me to becoming an agnostic atheist. It's worth being VERY clear here that "agnostic" is not a middle ground between theist and atheist! Theism is a belief in a spiritual pantheon (God(s)/Devils/Angels/Demons/Saints/etc), and the "A" before it means a LACK of having that belief. Gnosticism is the knowing of a thing. For instance, I am gnostic of the things I have personally experienced in my life. If one is gnostic of a thing, they have no need for faith, or belief, because faith and belief is for things which one does not KNOW, but they still think is true. The "A" in front of gnostic, means the exact same thing as the "a" in front of theism... It is the LACK of that quality. Thus, Agnostic = Lacking the direct knowledge of a thing, and Atheist = Lacking a belief in a spiritual pantheon. So my being an agnostic atheist means that I do not believe in a spiritual pantheon of gods and demons, but I do not know that they don't exist. Do I have evidence that there could be something to a spiritual world? Sure. But I am still agnostic about it, and I certainly don't attribute any projections of human desires and fears onto that. Anyway... If you want to hold onto the community and comfort of believing in your religion... remember to just enjoy it for what you like about it, DON'T try to force others to follow any religious rules unless they want to (thus don't try to vote such things into laws to control others by taking away their freedoms to choose to live that way or not), and definitely DON'T ask questions that could challenge your foundation of belief.
I've found Agnostics to be a fascinating case study on theological rule bending. I respect your openness and I'm sure that we both agree on many things. A belief that one does not know something is founded upon faith on some level. Picture: (What Simply Is minus Personal Knowledge) It's in a sense a more adapted form of Imitative Atheism to claim one believes that they do not know whether or not God exists because to reference the concept of God is to reference every canon that incorporates God.
@@owendubs "A belief that one does not know something" ... Try as I might, that sounds like word salad, since it makes zero sense if you give it any thought at all..
@@skylinefever That would be the key point behind Descartes famous quote, "I think, therefore I am." In his saying that, he means that the experience of existing is truly the only thing anyone can be absolutely certain of.
I am a believer in Jesus Christ, this came later in my life and I have just come to realize I’m on the spectrum. Religion is not church, church is not faith. You can have belief and faith in God without all the trappings of man-made rules (religion) or ever step foot in a church. Bibles are free online. Very good Bible teachers and pastors are free online. Denominations are man-made rules and they often contradict what Jesus taught. I wish you all well. God bless.
Im autistic and was formerly raised Catholic. I'm now irreligious/agnostic/heathen. I hardly believe in or worship anyone or anything anymore. I became slowly less religious when I was in my senior year of high school
I am a 31 year-old white man who was diagnosed a few years ago. I've always had a fascination with religion (mostly Christianity) and yet I still have vivid memories of attending Church gatherings/festivals and thinking to myself, "Boy, this sure is lovely, but I don't feel anything. I can tell that the rest of the crowd feels something and that they genuinely do believe they are connecting with something greater than themselves, but it obviously doesn't involve me." For years I took that as a sign of atheism, but now I understand it was a symptom of my undiagnosed autism--my inability to connect socially with others (especially in large crowds). If intelligent design does (laughably) turn out to be true, then that means God has designed a brain (and brains like mine) which He purposefully wired to not sense His presence. Additionally, if ID is true and He exists in the way they portray Him, then the Devil must exist as well--another brain seemingly wired to rebel. So when a Creationist tries to tell me Evolution is "just a theory" and that I should embrace the Bible and that all else is Satan, I legitimately ask them: "Why wouldn't I align myself with the Devil under these conditions?" The conversation usually ends around there. If, however, they want to have a discussion about their religion and leave the fact of evolution to the scientists, I am more than happy to oblige civilly. I believe that if I were born a thousand years ago I would have been fervently religious--probably a monk or something. I think your desire to educate and encourage autistic people/parents to have an autistic-friendly approach to religion is noble.
I am neruodivergant, 62 years old and a Roman Catholic Monk. I joined The Church at 15, after just walking away from my home and family and traveling to another state. I had wanted to be a Monk since 5 y.o. and I had the chance to meet the president of St.Gregory's Abbey University, and join a Monestary. I attended St.Gregory's University, after I got a GED and turned 18. (I emancipated myself at The Social Security office at 14 y.o.) I left school due to finances and returned in 1989. I graduated and in 2007, because an Oblate Monk, "Order of St Benedict." All of this was after carefully consideration by me, The president of SGU, and My Brothers. So, having an I.Q. of 158, being understood, and planing, all go into religion and how as a Neurodivergent person we accept: Organized Religion. Brother James Kendall Moore OSB
i rejected religion because it feels like a system of control, and has certainly been practiced that way throughout history in various kinds of religions. i suspect many autistic people feel the same, we reject it because we tend to want our autonomy more so than the neuroptypicals, as well as the fact that it doesn't seem logical to many of us that said, it seems that autistics are much more likely to be hardcore agnostics/atheists or far more into religion than neurotypicals in both categories, with far less middleground than there is with neurotypicals. I think it's largely the same for political beliefs', if we get into politics either we tend to be hardcore libertarians or we're radical marxists, again with little in between
I wonder if some of what you talked about here is why I'm so comfortable with my young children knowing Santa, the tooth fairy , etc aren't really lolol
Lol! I am self diagnosed I laugh because I am in and out of the occult, new thought, new age, Buddhism, and Christianity, not to mention an interest in Egyptian deities. Worship fascinates me, but I also have an irreverence towards it. I think I just believe in and admire the huge expanse of the infinite universe and whatever created it!
Fellow catholic here, IT helps me , it's awesome to know someone is there for you no matter what, also religion being a hyperfocus/interest , like knowledge about Marian apparitions, crosses, and other church related stuff Hate about christianity comes from prejudice based on believers misdeeds towards others, Would christianity develop if people hated Christ's church because of Judas being one of the apostles?
@@fearnpol4938 What you tried to do here is disgusting, ask him/her what she is religious or believe instead ridicule. If you find the bible not for you that's fine but you should know better and respect other people.
@@VindensSagaWhat you tried to do here is disgusting. Ask him/her for examples to illustrate why he/she believes that the Bible is hate-filled instead of calling his/her observations disgusting and falsely accusing him/her of ridicule as opposed to considering the possibility that they are merely trying to educate for the benefit of all those who have suffered directly from the religious beliefs of others. If you have no qualms about the genocides, sacrifices and everyday slavery venerated in the Bible, that's fine, but you should know better and respect other people.
I was obsessed with religion for many years, like deeply obsessed with the topic in general. My family was southern baptist. I read the entire bible several times, I could quote it to you. Then i started questioning any literal interpretation of it. I went as far as to learn hebrew and study the kaballah looking for some meaning. Then I toured the religions of the world. I read the quran, I read the bhagavad gita, I studied buddhism, norse gods, greek and roman gods, egyptian deities, shinto, wiccan wood nymphs, etc. Now I am pretty sure the universe is indifferent, the stories are all made up, and humans have superstitious ape brains. All of the sum of the entirety of all religion boils down to "don't be a dick"
I am autistic. I was fervently religious for about 10 years (age 15-25). Unfortunately despite having a deeper faith and more scriptural knowledge than most, I was never truly accepted by any church, because as hard as I tried, I could not conform to the norms of the group. In the denomination I had found myself in, scriptural knowledge was untoward for a woman to have (which is...so confusing). I was pressured into marrying a church leader who was controlling and abusive, and then I was accepted for those 5 years, but was formally disfellowshipped after divorcing him. At first I lamented that I believed in God but was not welcome in church, but later came to accept that they had done me a favor. It is so much more healthy for my autistic brain to embrace nothing more than concrete, material reality. Church was socially exhausting and I was always very emotional, sometimes even selectively mute due to stress. And actually the whole reason I had to get married in the first place was because I gave the church too much of my money and became homeless (this was intentional on their part because they really pushed for women to be dependent)...so the points you make in the video about being taken advantage of are very relevant... I no longer have any of that stress in my life, thank goodness. But I still love the stimulating nature of metaphysical thought experiments, so atheism has become a new special interest for me. I still watch formal debates and read theology, but it is a more detached interest--as it should have always been. I am a happy autistic atheist. :) Thank you for the video.
Wow! Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. I really appreciate your insight and I feel what you are saying. I am SO glad you found your path. Thank you so much.
I learned as even someone with Asperger’s the church is nothing more than a tax exempt business that judges you while they do shameful shit and think it’s ok. It’s a toxic environment and they’ll get rid of anyone who will have an affect on their future donations.
I can relate to many aspects of your story. ❤️ You're not alone.
I'm a man but I feel you
The thing is just like what the Bible says you can’t have faith in man they will always let you down. It’s one thing to have actual wonders an doubts of faith vs leaving God all together because of humans.
Autistic and raised Catholic. Church was extremely difficult for me because it was sensory overload in so many ways. SOUND: Too loud. I resorted to wearing high fidelity earplugs when I still went which helped. TOUCH: I LOATHE touch, save for very very few people in my life. Shaking other people's hands during "peace" is something I always dreaded and hated in a way that only other people averse to that type of thing could truly understand. I was always very uncomfortable having that many people so close to and surrounding me. SMELL/TASTE: I have extreme sensitivity to fragrances. The smell of cologne, perfume, scented laundry detergents, dryer sheets, halitosis was sometimes so strong that not only could I smell those things, I could even taste them. Debilitating.
I get sensory overload too in church but not as badly as you. I made a youtube channel where I quietly, and slowly narrate books of the Bible. No background music no words on the screen just my voice. I made for it us ( autistic) people to get some benefit from it. Id be grateful if you'd check it out someday. x
I've found it quite interesting that a few people in the comments section of another RUclips channel have mentioned converting to Catholicism or orthodox Christianity, as has one of my co-workers. I've been a pretty strident atheist most of my life, but find religion pretty fascinating. I love the beauty of elaborate churches and temples, and was pretty appalled to read about the dissolution of the monasteries, Puritan destruction of churches in the English civil War, church burning in the Spanish civil War and so on.
On the other hand, when it 16:20 comes to beliefs and practices, Catholic-style religion has no appeal for me, and I'm definitely more sympathetic to a bare-bones simplified belief system. When I started to learn to meditate, I initially got involved with a Tibetan Buddhist group, and quickly started to feel the elaborate ceremonies and long-winded prayers were a waste of my time. I switched to vipassana meditation, which I've stuck with ever since. When the teacher on one vipassana course asked me how vipassana differed from Tibetan practices I said "this is Dhamma for protestants. They are Dhamma for Catholics". I'd be interested to find out what forms of religion are more appealing to autistic people.
@farmingwithautism9159 this world environment can be very disorientated
I went to lifepoint (a huge mega billionaire church) as a kid and the concerts were so annoying. How loud it was and crammed mixed with the music being ass made me hate church
I’ve always thought there was something fundamentally wrong with me because I could never feel the love of god. Growing up on a very religious household this caused a tremendous amount of trauma. Even though I left religion 25 years ago, until now I still thought it was a deficit. Thanks for helping me see it’s not a flaw, just how my brain works.
not a flaw, not a god, just... a different brain that isn't susceptible to that form of manipulation or perception error as much as the "normal" populace.
The modern notion of "feeling" the love of God is a misunderstanding. The Bible actually tells us to avoid sensuality. I always felt like something was "off". I didn't realize what it was until I actually read the Bible. Once you do, you'll realize how many people today don't actually understand their own faith. Biblical illiteracy is rampant in the modern church.
I often joked about howsome people were born with a "Believe in God" circuit in their minds, and I never got one.
The gospel says that love is not a “ feeling”. It’s a choice to show thoughtful action even when there seems to be no reward. Christ died for us on the cross because he loves us. I didn’t always trust my own understanding or feelings and I’m not on the spectrum. It is a difficult concept to comprehend though.
@@lindseysanders3656 that’s one definition of love but there are others, and your definition won’t work in all situations or for all people. That kind of love amounts to kindness without feeling and can be manipulative and cold. Some of us would prefer to go without it.
Hey there, great video! As someone with autism, your remarks about not having good answers for questions science can't answer rang true for me. I used to be an atheist because I didn't see a good reason to believe in God. Then I heard one particular argument and it was like a switch flicked in my head. Suddenly it made perfect sense!
You've talked about how people will say things like "struggle well and you'll be rewarded". To those people I would say, "Faith without works is dead." In my church, we're called to bear each other's burdens, and to me that includes emotionally. The best "religious" people I've known are the ones who will get down with you on the ground to help you through the tough stuff. It seems like a lot of people use religious phrases like that when they don't know what else to say, but want to feel/seem holy. It's why I try my best to relate to other people emotionally, especially when they have similar conditions/circumstances to myself. It feels like barely anybody understands us, and I want to change that. You're doing well on that front, as well. "Love one another as I have loved you," Jesus said. I can only hope that I'm doing exactly as he said.
Having just realized and concluded that I am autistic...at 65 years old, I must tell you this is the BEST sermon I have ever heard. The search to fit in has been solved for me with this self-diagnosis, and this video is brilliant. Religion traumatized me through my life in various ways. Even as a child I asked the adults why would ALL the people in the world who don't believe in Jesus go to hell if they are good people??? It never made sense to me. I just couldn't see it.
I feel now, learning about autism, I can finally stop searching for it all to make sense. I am ok just the way I am. My brain is just different and it's ok!
Many blessings for your information...from whatever God you do or don't connect with!
BTW, I'm sort of gently occasionally practicing animism right now...and even after a deep dive into it, it's one I can hang my hat on, so to speak. Talking to trees I have done all my life! No church, no real ritual unless I choose, when and where I want. Yeah. I can do that.
You may love theunsundayshow the guy was a preacher for 40 years but he walked away from institutional Christianity. It’s liberating to realize the simple truths he puts forward from scripture that liberate you from the stresses of the fake church propaganda and programming and let’s you free yourself from that to just be loved by God. It’s wonderful his perspective. Helped me being autistic so maybe it’s good for you.
I was lucky enough to get kicked out of Baptist bible school at six. Studied most religions since.
Glad you're healing 🤗
@@lainecolley1414same! I refuted the virgin birth, and proceeded to tell my 1st grade Sunday School class where babies come from😊
@@ahsokaventriss3268 😄
things like this are what did it for me. Can got not stop the terrible things happening to people? then hes not really all powerful is he? can he stop them and doesn't? then hes cruel and doesn't deserve worship. That or he doesn't exist at all. I remember reading about some literal and figurative satanic cults when doing a religions class and it made so much more sense to me. There was a cult that believed in the literal existance of satan (the church of satan doesn't believe in any of that its just a metaphor for rebellion) and it said that they thought god was a tyrant and he was the victor so he got to write the history and paint lucifer as the bad guy, when he had actually fought against god for us.
Now I was atheist since high school, but I thought "if I could believe in christianity I would have to agree with the satanists".
In my family, being autistic is like being a Targaryen: "Every time a new Targaryen is born, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land." The devoted ones grow up to be preachers, and the disavowed grow up to be scientists. The story repeats itself like in the Buendia family, it is neurodivergent Ouroboros.
wow! a marquez reference😀
This is a very good analogy.
Judging by a comparison that includes two works of fiction and one ancient symbolism, one would think you're falling on the preachers side, actually.
At least more so, with the given dichotomy (where preachers appear to be more on the flowery and poetic side than the precise and analytical).
Science makes sense least they got pictures
This is a nice story but also a false dichotomy in a way.
An independent path may appear more like a monk than a preacher, though the difference may be only timing on when we check.
Learning at our own pace can mean that we must move toward an esoteric over standing.
I grew up LDS as an undiagnosed autistic female. At different points of my life it worked well for me. When my children hit their teen years, none of them wanted to go to church. At that point I reflected and realized how much anxiety I was also experienced as an active member and stopped attending. I’ve never had the desire to go back. Some other members of my family still attend and I’m pretty sure they’re trying to save my soul by overly encouraging my beliefs. I love your list and see that I see participation similarly. Thank you for putting this together! 😊
The great thing about the LDS church is that it’s true and that means 1: God knows you and what’s in your heart 2: your not dammed to hell for not going to church. So do what makes you feel comfortable. You’ll still be ok in the end.
Glad you found your way out eventually and are at peace. Glad your kids rejected that cult too. It's nothing more than a superficial elitist club that manipulates you into doing things for them by shaming you if you don't. They take up way too much of your time and money too.
@@scottyproctor3386having tried to conform to the LDS church for 40+ years, I finally realized I needed to take care of my mental health and step away. I feel so much better now. I respect your opinion that you believe in the truthfulness of the church. For a long time I felt so confused about why I didn’t. Now I’m learning more about myself and my autism and how I perceive religion and God. It’s a healthier place for me.
@@scottyproctor3386 HAHAHHAHAAAAA
honestly, its one of the most obviously false religions on earth, except perhaps scientology.
1. god would need to be real to know things
2. no one is damned* to hell, ever, there's no evidence its a real thing.
@@scottyproctor3386in the LDS church you can molest multiple families and still not be damned to hell. Patterns of many dark things in that church.
I was part of a church lead by a narcissistic pastor. I was undiagnosed AuDHD but was sure I was ADHD which was constantly shamed. We were told that leaving would "shipwreck" our kids lives and people who left were shunned which kept me there way too long. I'm very happy to be free from all of it. I've spent years healing the religious trauma.
All pastors are narcassists and scam artists.. Don't feel bad tbere is no God.. Leaving the church saves you from abuse.
I went through the exact same thing. Just curious, where was that church located? Mine was in Michigan
@@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916 I went to a cult school, run by an IFB Baptist church in Mt Clemens in the 80s.
Well obviously you will be shunned for leaving something good, just as vegans would shame you for going back to eating dead body parts.
@@scary5455 I've never had anyone mistreat my children because of how I chose to eat. I've never had people who said we were family talk about me to others as someone who is "vomit" because of how I ate.
What a fantastic video. I was raised in a very religious home that was honestly, fundamentalist. I ended up falling in love with a very smart, autistic man who was agnostic. I was so drawn to him because he had all the traits of a “Godly” man, was my best friend, was fun, adventurous and incredibly intelligent (graduated from MIT and had a PhD). He was everything I wanted in a husband, except that he wasn’t a Christian. Even though he was raised in church, his parents respected that religion didn’t make sense to him. They allowed him to be himself, and that’s truly amazing. He knows more about ancient history and the Bible than most Christians so, so he would win every religious argument. And he was totally okay with me continuing to be somewhat religious. Eventually I became non religious myself.
Did your man and yourself considered to become traditional catholics?
Past tense?
I am lucky enough to be part of a church community with many other ND individuals and we understand each other’s sensory struggles and are willing to find solutions. One recent example: I work in the children’s hallway and I noticed that the piano in the children’s room was out of tune, so I mentioned it to our bishop and less than a week later, it was tuned! It helped mitigate the sensory issues with the ‘bad’ music (which was more like noise for a couple of our children in particular). I appreciate your neutral and inclusive approach to this topic. As an AuDHD member of a pretty conservative church home, I often feel called out for being somehow bigoted or hypocritical by others in the autistic community. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
John 15:18-20 "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Don't let the world cause you to stumble. Don't let the world make you feel like a 'bigot' Keep serving our lord and saviour Jesus Christ. He loves you deeply. Blessed are those who endure until the end. Be bold for Jesus don't ever be ashamed. God bless you❤
These tips were so good. It’s so needed. Church can be a ruff place. It might be a safe place for nurotopical people but the non trauma informed church could accidentally be doing harm. Many are learning though. God is teaching us all. I am Diagnosed - I love learning about religion. All of them. Different ideas. I even love researching people I don’t agree with to try and understand where they are coming from.. it’s valuable and beautiful to see people where they are at. I am a committed Christian who enjoy a non threatening childlike personal relationship with Jesus because I do believe in Him and believe He has saved me from the penalty of eternal death. I’m very grateful to Him so I naturally love to be close to Him.
Church is a gnostic modeled system ironically. It’s a hierarchical system. Neurotypical have even perverted religion lol.
As an autistic Christian, I'm so happy to read this 💖
❤️🔥
Thank you for this. It was so affirming for me. I grew up in a strict Mormon household, and really had a hard time feeling like it was a safe space. I also identify as LGBTQ+ & grew up thinking that I was an “abomination” destined for hell. I genuinely tried to understand the religion, and read scriptures fervently but whenever I had questions I was often deemed as troublesome. Many men in the church did not like how knowledgeable and questioning I was about scripture, I think I was seen as not being submissive enough. It was a very damaging environment for me. I left the religion in my twenties after i served a mission & felt like I gave it my all but it was too toxic an environment for me. I still have special interest in Religion & Spirituality, but I am much happier just living by those principles that align with me intellectually as well as my own heart.
So sad that those type of men run this country
Mormonism was a haven for me until it wasn't. It offered many things that I once thrived on. A mission is not well adapted to many autistic people. Respect for people who wish to live their lives in it. Respect for those who found their way out; it's not an easy or encouraged path. After watching this video, it's clear to me why some of the social challenges and opposition to what seemed to me as scientific and logical thought were reasons I knew I wouldn't feel comfortable there, especially given immense pressure from family members. I did hear a few short phrases in the video that reminded me of the Mormon faith, which isn't surprising as it appears he may have had a special interest with a large number of religions.
If you think you go to hell just for being lgbt, then you never understoof Christianity. It's not sinful to be lgbt. It's sinful to engage in lgbt actions, but everybody sins.
I have read about so many other people who have also said the same about the Mormon church. It is definitely a cult and has caused a lot of harm.
@@scary5455 Stop. Love shouldn't be considered sinful.
Diagnosed as Asperger's late in life. I spent most of my life disinterested in faith and only approached religion in an academic manner. I'm now ordained in my faith and take great solace and joy in my beliefs. I am quite fine with people disagreeing with me, having a different faith or no faith at all. I recognize each individual's right to believe in accordance with their conscience but I will not alter my beliefs or behaviors for others.
Religion hurt me. It intensified my anxiety by making me internalize rules of behavior that caused me to be used hurtfully. I could never protect myself from horrible situations and abusers. I believed :(
25 year old male with High-Functioning Autism and have deeply devouted my life to Jesus Christ since I was 15. I find refuge in him because I truly believe he understood me and find my relationship with him deeply meaningful.
I thank the Lord for being alive and experiencing some of these tough hardships. And thank you for addressing to the minority of autistic people who rooted their faith in Christ.
God bless
There’s no such thing as “high-functioning autism.” It was never an official medical label and was always used as a reductive descriptor that falsely painted the autistic spectrum as a linear functioning scale and suggested that no autistic person (whether labeled “high-functioning” or “low-functioning”) could ever measure up to a “fully functioning” neurotypical.
You’re autistic, period. Your individual traits don’t make you inferior to neurotypicals or superior to your fellow autistics.
Amen!
Amen 🙏🏼
Amen and thank you, Brother Owen! Same here. 💙🙏🏽🫱🏽🫲🏼
Amen!
Growing up in a conservative Christian family and church, always an interesting thing to be the one asking questions no one knew the answer to, and being told to just ‘have faith’ and ‘believe’. Falling in line with the church hierarchy, and to tone down any brain cells because as a woman, you’re not meant to ask, do or expect certain things. It has taken years of leaving church, doing my own thing and trying to make peace because I can theologically argue with the best of them for me to accept what was said of ‘you do you’. Coming out as lgbtqi in later life, regardless of being older and wider, was still met with being told I was now going to hell, regardless of discussing why we care more about who I love in an honest way than the abuse, threats, and evil intent of some in churches… Thanks for the great talk again Doc.
I was a practicing Christian and Sunday school teacher married to an abusive narcissistic atheist. When I decided to get divorced my Priest took my husbands side. I spiralled into my first depression and have never attended church since. I am still spiritual and have a direct connection to Nature.
Shows how much disdain priests have for women when they'll take the side of an atheist man over a faithful woman.
@@geraintwdLikewise when they take the side of an abusive cheating Christian man over a faithful, loving atheist woman.
Don't let that take you away from serving and living for Jesus Christ. Don't worship the creation, worship the creator.
@@Axx-u3gand of course someone's proselytising in the comments.
It also doesn't help that autism comes with the trait to question authority. That doesn't mean we disrespect the authority, it means we go to the authority with questions, and if we find the authority lacking in proper answers, we just don't consider them the authority anymore 😁
I do question Mans Authority and have never been inclined to become a full fledged member of any church. That being said I don’t have issue at all with Gods Authority but it definitely took drastic means to get me to the alter.
@loraliecataldi1975 I have no issue with God's authority either, though I do take issue with how far the church and it's preachers claim to know the true motives of God 😏
True. The one I worship would probably apall you, but even so, I couldn't help but ask Him some challenging questions after learning about Islam. LoL
as an autistic person who is a panthiest religion to me is something that just makes life more fun and interesting im not concerned with proving my belief or convincing people it is simply a way of life
I am a happy AUDHD atheist. It has been so great becoming more myself and finding happiness and acceptance without needing validation from a religion. 😊
Being autistic, I’m naturally very curious about the world around me and how things work. And from my experience, religion and curiosity do not mix well. Every time I tried to make sense of Christianity, I was either told “God works in mysterious ways” or reprimanded for being “disrespectful”. Apparently you simply have to accept what you’re told at face value, don’t even attempt to understand it, and shut up. Fuck that shit. But I know why it’s the case. That’s the only way it can survive.
Because I kept questioning Christianity, and the more research I did, I found out that there are tons of contradictory viewpoints, and “experts” will have completely different explanations from each other. So nobody really knows what they’re talking about. Then I asked myself “How do we even know this stuff is true in the first place?”
We don’t.
If you question it or try to make sense of it, it simply falls apart at the seams. That’s why we’re told to shut up and punished for being curious. Curiosity is every religion’s kryptonite.
From that point, it didn’t take long until I fully became an atheist. I had nightmares about God getting pissed and sending me to hell.
But now that I’m a complete atheist, I don’t have those nightmares anymore. I’m actually really glad I’m not religious anymore. Church was always boring and felt like a waste of time. And I didn’t really care about an afterlife. If I cease to exist, I won’t exist to care about it. Besides, wouldn’t heaven get boring after a while?
The only reason I was religious in the first place was because I was afraid of going to hell. One thought I constantly tried to suppress was “Why can’t God just leave us alone? Why do we have to be a part of his sick twisted game of ‘Sort the Souls’?” But it appears I got my wish. Because there is no god! 😁
(At least not the ones depicted in any of the religions.)
like those dying of "suddenly" who had blind faith and fear? chrion last "love the eternal bargin"
I just have to say, study of the Bible, with someone who actually knows what it's about, and uses only Bible verses to answer Bible questions, can help clear some things up. My religion rewards curiosity.
Some real Bible answers concerning some of the topics you mentioned: (yes, I CAN back all these up with scriptures)
* Blind faith is not encouraged. The definition of faith, in the original language, is presented in legal terms (evident demonstration), as having the title deed to a property you have not yet seen. Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen."
Asking questions and finding the truth are encouraged. We are supposed to seek "accurate knowledge" and "examine the scriptures" and "test the inspired word". Proverbs 14:15 "The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step." Acts 17:2,3 "So according to Paul’s custom he went inside to them, and for three sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, saying: “This is the Christ, this Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you.” " Acts 17:11 "11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." Romans 12:1 "Therefore, I appeal to you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason."
Colossian 1:9,10 "That is also why from the day we heard of it, we have never stopped praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, 10 so as to walk worthily of Jehovah in order to please him fully as you go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God;"
Hebrews 14:1 "But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong."
The carefully examining, the power of reason, discernment, accurate knowledge and comprehension, are all seen as goals to aspire to have or use. Blind faith would not fit with these admonishments. People who expect blind faith either don't know the answers, or know them, and don't like the implications, if they're not teaching things directly from the Bible.
* Why so many contradictory viewpoints if they're all christians and supposedly base their teachings on the Bible? The Bible warned about an apostasy that would rise up from the early congregation, teaching commands of men as doctrines, appearing to be true, but in fact, being false. People would gather many teachers who would "tickle their ears" with things they wanted to hear, while they turned away from what the Bible teaches, because it would force them to change how they lived their lives.
This would last for centuries. In the "last days", the distinction between those truly serving God, and those not, would become blatantly obvious as things were cleaned up, creating a people for his name. (this would take a bunch more scriptures to explain in detail.)
* "Eternal torment in hell" is not a thing taught in the Bible. Death and "the grave (sometimes translated hell)" will be destroyed in the lake of fire that is called "the second death", which offers no hope of release - things thrown there are gone forever.
1 Corinthians 15:26 "And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."
Revelation 20:14 "And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."
Souls die. Ezekiel 18:4 4 Look! All the souls-to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son-to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die."
A dead person cannot do anything that a living person can do, such as think or do things, or suffer. Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 10 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten." "10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going."
* Heaven isn't the only destination for good people - those who go there are going for a reason (to rule as kings and priests as part of a limited number who are needed fill roles in that heavenly government, to manage affairs on an earth filled with good people.) (this would take quite a few more scriptures to explain)
I've flooded you with quite a bit for now, not even knowing if you'll read this, but hopefully, others who have felt the way you do, will read this and see THERE ARE ANSWERS out there... it's just most religions don't actually teach what is found in the Bible, they teach the commands of men as doctrines.
I remeber hearing my religious mom and aunt discussing how being gay is “unnatural” and as a gay kid with a critically thinking brain, I said “but gay animals exist” and I was pretty much told to shut up and respect the beliefs, because religious belief is an excuse to discriminate against gay people and spread lies, and if you ask questions or challenge the logic (lack of logic more accurately) you are told you are disrespectful
@@Twink6629-lg3teI think a better argument is “It’s natural, but that doesn’t make it moral”. It’s also natural for animals to eat their young, but you wouldn’t use that to justify humans doing it would you?
Just because something is “natural”, it isn’t necessarily morally right, and that’s homosexuality.
Wish I could have watched this when I was 10, back in the 90's. It would have helped a lot. Unfortunately, autism wasn't really a thing people talked about or understood back then.
I was not considered one, but my whole life, I was certainly different. I described it as a "Born without a belief in God circuit."
I'm a Christian, but I can't do organized religion. I have tried so many churches and denominations, but never been accepted, anymore than anywhere else. I expected much more from church, but learned the hard way that chuch is the vanguard of social exclusivity. I wonder how neurotypical single women navigate the prevalent mysoginy. And then during meet and greet, I start looking for escape routes. Most churches teach eternal security anyway, which is horrible, and unscriptural.
I really love your statement: "Stop doing what everyone else expects, just because they expect it."
Still, I really wish there were someplace I could safely go for corporate worship.
Italian-American woman here. I hate religious misogyny. I left Catholicism at age 9. Zero interest in returning. One of my special interests is religious history and another is archaeology. I know more about religious texts than most believers. Myths are stories. They speak more about human psychology than they do about any god beings. Further, morality is not owned by religion. If people find comfort in community and ritual, that’s fine as long as they keep their dogma to themselves.
Me too! And it is so difficult for most people to understand my interest in religious history and texts since both religious and non-religious people have issues with my academic interest either way!
Prisons are built with stones of law. Brothels are built with bricks of religion. William Blake.
Those words changed my entire life. Anyone else who understands this? 24:16
Myths strive to transcend a culture as you can see in Greek mythology. Some might have been caricatures of real things in life like the Cyclops and/or what seemed to be reflected in reality as in Greek philosophy. Of course myth was amplified and philosophy simplified.
Yet many of the mythic stories including superheroes esp like Thanos is about good and evil.
Evil will destroy earth and a Hercules or a band of superheroes need to battle the evil darkness.
Perhaps the Bible gets closer to defining reality. Wherein most myths have 40% truth mixed in the Bible has 80 or 90% truth; that reality is represented more even over Bhagavad Gita or Dharmic/Tripiṭaka.
I love archaeology and there's a lot of evidence being found for the paleo-Hebraic, Solomonic and Daric periods. Even the Tower of Babel ruins- probably considered a myth by you - can be viewed in Iraq.
How much evidence is there for Hinduism, Bhuddism, Jannism or LDS...?
Agreed 100%
If you believe you’re right and that you have the truth, wouldn’t it be selfish to keep it to yourself?
For me, my autistic fascination with religion is in its deep stories and myths, as well as the rich cultures of different religions. That said, I'm an atheist, but I love hearing about religions and their influences on our culture.
Almost everything you said describes me to a T. I'm just not an atheist.
I’m autistic and I also have ADHD. I was highly indoctrinated into fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. I believe my mother is autistic and you described what I have thought about her 100%. We are the perfect example of two autistic people who are the complete opposite on religion. My mother is a rigid thinking and displays alexithymia (low understanding of her emotions, low emotional intelligence, theory of mind deficits). I am, conversely, a very intuitive and open-minded thinker and I am so in touch with my emotions and internal world that I can get lost in them. We are, essentially, polar opposites. If our mother/child roles had been reversed, I think it would have been a healthier match. Unfortunately, as it is, my relationship with my mom feels incredibly sad and tragic to me and is a source of incredible pain. She was not a nurturing mother and entirely emotionally neglectful as a parent. I believe religion is her safety, sure, but I still see it as harmful because it has proved to be an enabler for her behavior - it has ultimately stifled her growth as a person and is an immovable barrier that keeps her from being able to any kind of meaningful connection with me. In her mind, she is correct and we don’t have a better relationship because I’m not a Christian (aka, I’m so sinful and bad). She views it as her burden and cross to bear, an me refuses to acknowledge that there’s anything for her to learn about emotions or social skills, etc. Religion has provided her with a set of social rules to live by, and a group of people to be around so she can feel like she has people (even if she is really only acquaintances with these people and has no close friends because she doesn’t understand emotional intimacy). Because religion makes her feel like knows how to live life (and is right) and has social group, she has no motivation to learn anything else. Her religion even explains why her children aren’t close to her (we aren’t Christians…it’s us, not her…).
So religion has even taken away her motivation to figure out how to connect with her kids.
For me, I simply felt, socially, like I was on the outside looking in at Church. I was a fussy kid, often uncomfortable in some way because I was too hot, too cold, too stressed, to thirsty, to hungry, too itchy, too something. I received no sympathy for my behavior because “grumbling and complaining is a sin.” Instead of kindness and sympathy and listening to my needs, I was constantly singled out for being bad and sinful (“you’re the only one with a bad attitude - you need to have an attitude of gratitude. What would God think about your behavior?” Stuff like that). I thought I was such a bad person as a child and constantly afraid I was going to hell because, if I was saved, surely I would act like a better person. Socially, I wasn’t treated well at church and as a teenager I felt extremely “othered” by my mother for not being her rigid view of what I should be. I wasn’t ok with being treated badly by my parents or any church leaders (why should they have an arbitrary right to be obeyed and submitted to?? They were just random people to me and they were wrong). so I was labeled “rebellious,” “unsubmissive to god,” and “disrespectful” by so many adults and friends. I felt like I had no social support and I was only misunderstood and eventually ostracized as a young adult to the point of being suicidal. After that, I left the church and continued to see more and more inconsistencies with theology, science, and simply my lived experience (ex. I met gay people, and they were nicer than the Christians I’d known).
Also, as a kid and teen, I really hated church and never liked a single thing about it. With ADHD, I found it extremely boring. I was constantly uncomfortable in church clothes and couldn’t wait to get home to change my clothes. The service was always freezing cold to the point I couldn’t stand it.
I liked it at one point as an older teen and young adult because I found a group I felt more social connection with, but then I was ostracized.
Christianity is still so triggering to me, and I feel like it is an immovable wall between me and my mom, which is incredibly painful. I feel like organized religion has robbed me of so much in life. I recognize that it can be good for some people, and I believe in religious liberty, but personally I think it does more harm than good and I hate it.
I think a lot of autistic people who leave the church are atheist, and I was for awhile. It didn’t sit well with me so I explored more and now I’m spiritual (had no idea what that meant until I was). I’m at peace with who I am and what I believe, I just still feel so triggered by Christianity and deeply sad and wounded by all of the toxicity it’s brought me. I hope I’ll heal enough that one day I won’t be triggered by it anymore, but I’m not sure if that will ever happen.
I often wonder if I'll ever feel completely over it. Every day I think of what I missed out on because hellfire and brimstone bullshit made me paranoid.
I said if the Total Recall movie happened, I'd buy in, just so I could have fake good childhood memories implanted to overwrite the holy gaslight of childhood.
I grew up LDS and it was a living hell for someone like me. I was coaxed into a serving a mission? It was a living hell back then autistic traits were seen as having a lack of faith. They basically destroyed me emotionally.
Sorry you went through that. Unfortunately, there are a lot of highly ignorant, stubborn, brainwashed and naive people in Mormonism.
My mother said "You chose to believe it." I said "That's like choosing to dowhat a conman says."
Role models of autism in religion can also be helpful. Examining the life of the prophet Elijah, for example, may be character that a person with autism could relate to. Also, many of the 'desert fathers' and 'religious hermits' from earlier Christian eras may be relatable.
I agree, in my church we have these books available. The ancient writings of Christianity will fill at least a few bookshelves, I see them every Sunday. I didn’t know these books even existed until I left modern Christianity for ancient Christianity which led me to Orthodoxy. As related to the video, our services are orderly, we don’t get yelled at from the pulpit, just normal speech, no loud bands, flashing lights etc. in my experience, the people seem to be less judgemental than in some other churches, but there is always the chance that someone is being a knucklehead, so just ignore them.
@@bk3720 Contemplative religious services (unlike modern services) are the bomb.
Well even Jesus. Cant be more straight foward and blunt than Jesus.
He also got rejected because no body understood him. As an autist, i think its really easy to relate to Jesus
I'm an autistic Christian man, and, in addition to that, I see religion and science as essentially opposite ends of the same spectrum of relating to truth as human beings (the known occupying both ends of the spectrum and the unknown occupying the middle). I find compartmentalization difficult to justify because even though the unknown separates what we know by observation from what we know by revelation, it's all truth, known or unknown. That's why I feel teleological thinking isn't particularly comforting to me. I already know that religion is on the other side of the unknown. Reminding myself of something I already know, but that doesn't help me predict future outcomes in similar circumstances and optimize my behavior for more desirable results, doesn't provide much solace. In fact, it can feel a bit annoying. If there are logical principles connecting the teleological train of thought, though, I find that comforting. I've found that my religion provides those principles, but most people aren't aware of them, which can make them hard to refresh in conversation (my favorite way to review).
I agree that churches are often full of hypocrisy, shaming, and overwhelming stimuli. Yet, I've found a comprehensive aggregation of biblical morality (both New Testament and Old Testament) to be a comprehensive dataset for structuring my own moral framework, and I value the fresh perspectives and simplifying new connections I gain at church when others share their religious experiences or the results of their own study. This dichotomy between fatal flaws and valuable contributions makes me want to reform churches and help make them safer places for neurodivergent people.
I agree that implementing accommodations in churches is an important aspect of building a good church. I've seen a lot of great progress toward being more autism friendly in churches I've attended over the years. That progress has inspired me with the vision that neurotypical church members embracing a more neurodiverse way of doing things. Here are a few examples At one church I went to, one of the AV team leaders made a point of keeping the measured volume in the church below a certain decibel level--I rarely had problems with the sound (like I do nearly every week I forget earplugs currently). The church choir was open to just about anyone, so enough people there knew how to sing well that congregational singing wasn't bad. Another church I went to was especially welcoming and genuinely accepting. After a little explanation, even the most traditional members started to recognize that different people serve God in different ways and stopped badgering people--which is saying a lot because the church was small enough that it was hard to find enough people to do everything each week. Multiple churches I've attended have had programs that let people choose what things, how many things, and how much of each thing they want to contribute to the church, if any. If all the members that want to get involved in whatever ways they want, even a small church can thrive. It might be a little nontraditional for a while, but it will grow.
I've definitely thought about this on and off over the years. Most ND people I know do not subscribe to any organized religion. Like, it just doesn't make sense. But I can see that for some, the routine and community is helpful, as long as it's not overwhelming or damaging in any way. Curious if the religious NT world thinks we are heathens because we cannot be forced to comply and be just like them...
Raised evangelical here, now atheist for a lot of the reasons stated. I can confirm that they absolutely do, along with several other horrible and usually ableist things.
My experience has been different. I've been raised and still am Christian, and while I met my fair share of religious NTs that think we are heathens for not believing like them, and even more so if we've left the church, I've found many who believe that even people who leave the church have hope even if they don't come back to church ever again. From what I can tell, though, to some degree inside and to a larger degree outside my denomination, it's a majority who feel like you said. I just think that there's a significant and growing minority who aren't so toxic about people who leave or choose not to join the church. After all, it's pretty common to say that church should be a home for everyone who believes in God, although acting that way is often another story. Nonetheless, I've seen many churches I've attended start being more understanding.
@@amiebabineau1418 Ableism in the church is really frustrating for me, too. If they even have a reason for it (instead of arbitrary bigotry), I think it stems from a fear of a lack of faith. The Bible says being actuated by that kind of fearfulness is unacceptable, (Rev. 21:8) so that's still a problem, even from their perspective--as long as they actually believe the Bible.
This part'll probably sound a little preachy...
This is my best shot at expressing a concern I've felt ever since I first heard about ableism. If I've learned helplessness in some situation, (through trauma or other unfortunate means) mislabeling someone's albeit horrible attempt at encouraging me to overcome my learned helplessness as ableism seems like not only accepting my helplessness a present reality, but accepting it as an unchangeable, almost sacred one. I do not want to make that mistake. I anticipate that it would be a painful and limiting mistake that could last a lifetime, and I just want to say something in case it can save you that experience. For me, the solution includes a great deal of introspection to distinguish possible ableism from garden-variety cruelty or even just bad manners. Also, I'm not convinced that I can tell if someone is ableist or just misguided without reading their minds, which obviously I can't, and that helps me give them the benefit of the doubt, while still taking action to limit my exposure to ableism (usually to them in general as a source of ableism in my life). That way, I don't feel resentful or vengeful, sometimes not even a little. Instead, I feel wise and grateful to be learning better boundaries. I hope that you can have the same experience.
That said, ableism is still definitely a thing, and I'm passionate about fighting ableism in the churches I attend.
It would make sense that monasteries and nunneries would be a good place for a lot of the autistic of the past to hang out. It varied from. place to place, but in many of them, they would spend lots of solitude and or silence, and generally some sort of meditation. There would have been education, and often lots of emphasis on studying texts closely and perhaps writing commentaries on them, giving talks, predictable routines, and so forth. It could be a lot nicer then the chaotic, difficult, and often uneducated people outside those walls.
Add in the opportunity for creating very structured art, whether that be calligraphy and illumination, or depictions of your god, where you are honing a skill, coordination, that some autists find challenging (others don't - again, we're all different in our presentation of autism), and able to exercise some level of creativity within clearly defined parameters.
Personally, I'm not religious, but I am spiritual, and I was never closer to the power of the universe around me than when I was doing something repetitive in the great outdoors, involving animals, with clearly defined goals and parameters, but freedom on the exact way of reaching those goals. Similarly, military life and pursuits are governed strongly by routines, and by rules and regulations, and I thrived in that environment. Not having somewhere to burn off excess energy within my job made simply existing a struggle, so I can absolutely understand why some autistic folks would find the routine and labor of a monastery, nunnery, or temple to be soothing and enjoyable. A medieval me would likely have thrived in one of the same professions I found myself in the modern day - a squire to a sensible and understanding knight.
I find it interesting how the monk class was on the cutting edge of science.
possibly the most balanced overview of religion I've ever heard..
Wow ! This is so true. Thanks for verbalizing it.
Well said! I cannot put into words, the hatred, upset, disdain, and animosity I have towards my faith. I hang on because of the fear of hell because somehow I feel like like my loved ones will be taken care of. I’m a stalemate in life and it sucks. I feel like a lot of my autistic traits and hardships I am able to overcome socially, like I never imagined, though I still struggle. I feel like I’ve almost discovered myself, but then the door got shut because of my Catholic faith. Mind you I’m not bashing the church or anything like that. It may be a bad example and I may pay for it because it’s what I said may lead others from God. See this is where it is..
I don't think the Catholic Church believes in Hell any more. There was a Papal statement about it.
Here's a suggestion for parents - don't lie to your kids. Don't tell them anything that you can't back up with evidence, because they will find the evidence, they will work out that the religion doesn't make sense, that the claims it makes don't track with the reality that they can see with their own eyes. They will resent being punished and abused for simply asking questions that make sense to them, and they will resent you for lying to them.
I totally get your point cause I really really don’t like people of my belief that go like “it’s like this and not otherwise”, when the religion I’m a part of has seen so many scholars that approached it in a study like manner and logical manner. So I cooked a version of what I would call my “branch” it’s more logical, it makes sense and it’s fascinating because I never agreed with how everybody around me views it.
I think about how many parents and clergy keep repeating things like "Just pray harder, bro" and not getting results.
They find reddit and conclude it's all 2000 years fairy tales.
It‘s not lying when one truly believes in their religion. Besides refusing to answer questions is another issue.,,abuse is always wrong
I'm not against religion. I'm against religion measuring their members' spiritual health by how compliant they are or available they make themselves to it. I don't like being labeled as a liability. I don't like being 'love bombed'. I don't like being threatened for questioning doctrine. I love my personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I love how I get the information I need, when I need it [for correction, comfort, or want to upgrade my skill sets to deal with life, or to understand what some wording or circumstances meant back in the day in the scriptures...]. Observing other people's beliefs and what they get out of them [religious, professional, or personal] is fascinating for me.
I follow a path that I created out of my former one by removing what was toxic. My path is now between myself and the Source of All Things and nobody else. I now enjoy complete spiritual liberty as a result.
I am rabbi on the spectrum, very helpful!
This is an incredibly well done look into religions. I'm still in a shifting state of awe and confusion that you are willing\able to give both sides of the coin while not letting it land hard on one (your preferred) side.
Very well done.
Just as Autistic persons are diverse in their differing traits, so are religions.
I am an Autistic Christian and have found that Autism is restrictive in a Neurotypical world just as being a believing practicing Christian is restrictive in a non Christian world where there are pagans, atheists, agnostics etc and Protestants with differing beliefs to each other.
I have also found liberation and comfort in my Christian Faith in God and as well as this, have found a host of autistic 'square pegs' like myself who have spent years trying to fit and squeeze into the round holes of the Neurotypical world, in family life, employment and social communities, but I now have found comfort, sense and understanding in my discovery that I am Autistic. Autism is my friend who accepts my difference and I can accept my 'square peg' ID and do not have to justify or conform to fit in any longer. If people dont accept me because I am diverse, then that's their problem, not mine. Likewise, they do not have to fit into my world either.
My husband is a NT Non believer but we are facing the challenges together and after 20 years of marriage, we know that the externals are not as important as our internal identities as loving, caring human beings.
I like what you have said on this video a lot, and find it tolerant, respectful, and helpful 😊
I dont take too much notice of intolerant bigots any more, whether they are rude and intolerant towards religion or not. Nor do I worry avout intolerant bigots who dont like Autists either.
My husband has taught me a lot 😅
Thank you for this insightful and helpful presentation.
As an aside, we have a lot of Autistic people who attend our
Orthodox community and they are very valuable and helpful members.
🕊️
I never even reached a point where rejecting religion was even possible for me to do. Religion rejected me. I was run out in the name of being kept in. As a child there was nothing at all abnormal or even remotely unusual about being beaten for blasphemy whenever I was asked what I got out of reading scripture. Unfortunately it never occurred to me to tell her whatever lies she wanted to hear because they weren't true. Of course I wasn't aware of it as a child, but it turns out that despite having been a Christian from 4-18, I never actually accepted that religion was true so much as I just took it for granted that abusive liars were loving, trustworthy, and looking out for my best interests.
Don't even get me started on the afterlife. I'm going to be 40 on my next birthday and I still can't figure out any better than I could at 6 what is not horrifically terrifying about the concept of consciousness continuing in any context for any amount of time after the cessation of heart, lung, and brain function. In the end though, the biggest mistake that people constantly made with me was telling an autistic child that the Bible is to be taken literally. I'll never forget the confusion and sense of betrayal at having been lied to when I was 4 and my mom was trying to walk back what she had just said about the devil being on my shoulder, whispering in my ear, to get me to do wrong when she realized that she was already losing me because I couldn't feel his weight on my shoulder or hear his voice in my ear. By the time I had a good grasp on metaphor it was years too late to undo the damage.
Sometimes I wonder if I could have believed if I wasn't stuck with the BS.
Church: God is found in the silence.
Also church: Ear-piercing worship volume.
Certainly not every church has ear piercing worship volume!! You should certainly visit a few different kinds that are not interested in having a loud entertaining band.
Call around and ask about the worship style of a congregation before going. Some have piano or organ as the only instruments; some sing a cappella. You can find more peaceful, contemplative worship styles. I have found this in many rural churches, as well as Mennonites and Brethren of most types, Church of Christ, Nazarene, Free Methodist and Wesleyan Churches. There are a wide variety of options available - please search, and you will find! 💙🙏🏽☮️
WOW! This has been something I have been longing to understand for a very long time. I have always had a supportive family with our religious devotion to the Catholic faith, and there have been some hiccups on the way, but I have grown a lot since learning about the diagnosis I had as a young pre-teen. I am now fully understanding what this can mean for me, it's all about knowing yourself better than anyone else. I originally thought of the idea lately while I was in the shower and boyyyyy am I happy I did!
Thanks for the feedback. I hope your journey goes very well for you.
i want to know the TRUTH, i dont want "faith" seeing what "faith" (such as faith in the governmental systems) has braught us to this point we are now....... just have faith in god! let the elite destroy the planet and turn around and blam you!
My mother used to take me to (Anglican) church on Sundays but, by that point, I already understood (special interest in mythology at a young age) that humans invented gods to tell stories about things they didn't understand. Our ancestors didn't know that sometimes things just happen, according to natural laws, so they assign agency to those events - something must have made them happen.
My autism and ADHD led to me being bullied relentlessly throughout school. I finally accepted that there was no god, when I prayed desperately EVERY NIGHT for the bullying to stop - for them to leave me alone for just one day, to give me a break. Of course, nothing ever changed and the bullying continued. That's when I fully, consciously acknowledged that nobody is listening, nobody cares and that praying achieves nothing, except to make the person doing the praying feel a bit better about something.
I have always been a "why?" kid - always wanting to know how and why stuff worked the way it did, wanting to understand the rules of the universe. Whenever a parent or teacher would tell me to do something a certain way, I'd always have to ask "why?", especially when I could see a more logical or simpler or more effective way of doing it that achieved the desired outcome. Of course, the response was always along the lines of "don't ask stupid questions" or "because I said so". I learned that this is just a way for adults to silence any questioning or dissent - an authoritarian response that is condescending and belittling, often betraying the fact that they knew no more than I did about whatever they were talking about. It was never a good enough response for me when it came from adults, so when I learned that religions use the same tactic to avoid having their belief system undermined by awkward questions, I became highly suspicious.
It didn't take me much longer to realise that the whole edifice was a house of cards, teetering atop a foundation of pre-scientific myths and legends that were often at odds with what we know and can demonstrate with evidence. More recently, I came across some studies that suggest autistic people are actually less prone to being swayed by religious BS - we are better at seeing through the scam than NTs. I guess that's one more reason to be grateful for my neurodivergence.
Your point about evolution was also a factor for me - I had already rejected religion by the time I was an adult, but when I went online and saw religious people repeating blatant falsehoods and misrepresenting what science has shown us about the natural world, all in service of their gods, that was the final nail in the coffin. If you have to lie about reality, misrepresent facts, and distort the truth to make your mythology make any kind of sense, then you've already lost the argument.
Christian NPC - "Just pray harder, bruh."
I saw prayer as nothing more than placebos and motivational coach BS.
it is a common complaint among clergy that many people identify as 'spiritual but not religious'; but as a person with autism (no longer theistic), I can firmly say I identified as 'religious but not spiritual'
I am autistic. I am Aspergers to be exact. I found out in 2015. I am now 62. I am a Christian since 1982.
But I also have Alexithymia which said to be co-morbid with Aspergers. A big % of Aspergers will have Aspergers.
You can have both, just one or neither.
Alexithymia is Greek for "without words". It means you don' recognise your emotions and have trouble recognising emotions in others
Diagnosed autistic here. Thank you so much for this objective approach to Autism and religion. This is an excellent video.
I have been wanting to start a RUclips channel outlining my experience but have been held back by ADHD perfectionism. But when I finally get there , this is one of the topics I want to tackle. My thought process is similar to yours in taking on an objective approach.
I have seen plenty of videos on this subject but most of them are anecdotal based on personal experiences rather than the facts surrounding the autistic neurotype and how that plays a role into belief or nonbelief.
I’ll break down my points via comments below because I know RUclips limits the amount of text.
Logic is a great part of Autism and therefore it is necessary to find logic for or against religion. Most of the content I’ve seen is logic against. I believe logic can be applied FOR.
There’s a great clip from Young Sheldon season 2, Episode 3, where the notorious atheistic younger version of Sheldon tries to comfort his mother who finds herself questioning the existence of God after a neighbors teenage daughter dies in a car accident.
Sheldon’s mother tells him “Faith means believing in something you can’t know for sure is real”
Sheldon thoughtfully replies “Did you know that if gravity were slightly more powerful the Universe would collapse into a ball? Also, if gravity were slightly less powerful the universe would fly apart and there would be no stars or planets”
“Where are you going with this Sheldon?” his mother asks
“It’s just that gravity is precisely as strong as it needs to be. If the ratio of the electromagnetic force to the strong force wasn’t 1% life wouldn’t exist. What are the odds that would happen all by itself?”
She asks “Why are you trying to convince me to believe in God? YOU don’t believe in God!”
“I don’t” young Sheldon replies… “But the precision of the universe at least makes it logical to conclude there’s a creator”
From my own perspective, knowing that matter cannot be created or destroyed, one must ask themselves where matter originated from.
It’s not illogical to conclude that there would have to exist a creator that has always existed that defies the laws and rules of physics that put those laws into place.
These points fall under your point of religion explaining things that science cannot for some on the spectrum.
I also identify with all of the things you mentioned regarding the sensory nightmare that is church. The lights, music that is way too loud, off key singers, & fellowship. Emotional displays in others is also extremely uncomfortable for me which is common in churches.
I detach my discomfort from the journey of others and accommodate myself where I can, as you so wisely suggested. Loop earplugs are a life saver.
My next point is the purpose of Autism if there is a creator. I’ll start with one of my favorite quotes: “If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will go its whole life thinking it is dumb.”
Autism has a lot of benefits. Logic, perception, empathy, information organization, individual steadfastness, etc. HOWEVER, some of the drawbacks can seem to run counterintuitive to Gods purpose for us. Lack of emotion (love for a relationship with God), introversion (love others as yourself)…
I believe God created and has a purpose for each neurotype so this is an extremely difficult area to navigate.
I’m no square - I was raised in the church but lived alternative lifestyles for many years which intuitively went against my upbringing. I had a major life event that brought me back into church which I initially fought against on an internal level. I feel contrarian in so many areas including employment, social norms, trends, etc… and church is no exception... but my moral compass exists despite this.
Regarding individual personal experiences in the church:
The negative personal experiences that add to an autistics rejection of religion are valid. I personally have had bad experiences with people in the church, just as I have had in school or in places of employment.
Below I use biblical references but NONE of this is intended to be an argument of authority. These references are only assumed valid on the God exists side of the debate:
There’s a verse in the bible that talks about ‘the way’ being narrow and few that find it. Assuming God exists, it explains the statistical likelihood that more likely, unfortunately, people will encounter ‘not good’ Christians. Some intentional, some unintentional.
Because I like to think of everything in charts and percentages, I surmise the people that most closely resemble God on this earth are maybe 3%. The measurement of a person most closely resembling God is subjective and supernatural in a way I can’t claim to quantify but something I perceive exists. God specifically mentions some people that were ‘after his own heart’ like David or even Job. The bible says God was proud of Job.
Doesn’t mean 97% of the world will go to hell or that God doesn’t love 97% of the world. God told the sinner on the cross next to him he would be in heaven with him that day. It just means that there are few that really 'resemble Jesus' and thus, there is a greater likelihood of encountering intentional evil or non intentional hurt in the church.
My conclusion for the need of having a nonpartisan approach to this subject is because I believe God gave all of us free will. I’m personally a libertarian and believe people should be given the information to make their own decisions. A Christian should show others God’s love, educate (give them the information), and allow them to make the decision. While I have a personal view and hope that everyone would come to know God I believe in providing logical information and allowing others to make a decision. I believe this mimics the free will God gave us.
I strongly identified with so many of your points. The need for purpose in everything (money and tithing or standing and kneeling), autistic aspects of individual steadfastness, lack of teleological concepts (which can also apply to an atheistic sense of destiny or fate), giving concrete and logical explanations of the bible, etc.
As a side note because I have no other place to put this point categorically: There are measurable biological and neurological statistics to support the higher instance of non gender conforming/LGBT population in the autistic community when compared to the neurotypical population. Females on the spectrum also tend to have higher androgenous profiles, biologically. This needs to be acknowledged and understood about Autism as a basic fact and included in these discussions.
In closing I really REALLY wish there were seminars available for church leaders to learn about neurodivergence. They are just as susceptible to misunderstanding neurodivergence as any other neurotypical.
Thank you again for this original and nuanced content. New subscriber here.
@@NeurodiverJENNt I hope you get a channel going in youtube, I'd subscribe to you. I too am autistic, in my channel I simply, slowly, and quietly narrate some book of the bible. Drop by anytime and listen. And let me know when you're up and running
Scientism is a religion, too.
I was raised in a very vanilla Lutheran environment and generally cool with it, but felt it too shallow and was super not suggestible and just figured out what made sense to me and rejected what didn't.
Fast forwards to my early 20's, I had a series of peak experiences or mystical experiences. Got me to fill up the disk space of studying everything mysticism and the contemplative meditative traditions. Religion felt so basic and simplistic in comparison to mysticism.
I also realized recently that I really identified with mystics throughout history because they're like me, don't fit in, are rejected everywhere they go, they seem to exist in a different space than the average population. Both science and religion rejects the mystics.
They're like me! Like us!
It was like, "wait, you can follow a path of examining self intensely in a systematic way and not have to believe in anything abstract, and/or the metaphors and stories of religion we can systematically learn how these very abstract dogmatics things become more and more concrete human experiences rather than abstract, unverifiable things? Sign me up!!"
Hey Dr. Service. I absolutely love your content! Hopefully a constructive note - Maybe consider grabbing a LAV mic for future videos. As an autistic person, the quality of the audio, paired with the overwhelming background noise was torture that I had to sit through in order to hear your great content! Best wishes, looking forward to more videos!
I’ve been looking for fan making the buzzing sound for the past 20 minutes or so. It turns out it’s this video haha
Thank you so much for your videos and helping to shed more and more of a light on the wonders and intricacies of being neurodivergent - it's so important as so much is misunderstood. I have just recently realized at 48 I am neurodivergent and ADHD. Your videos and those of others on the spectrum have been invaluable!!!
I was bullied in church just as much as I was in school. I DID tell the adults but they either laughed at me and told me their child would never do such a thing (they did, just not when Mama was looking), or was told to ignore it.
Ahh yes, the parent too proud to accept that their child might be doing harm. Sorry that harm was done to you.
@@scottfw7169 Pastor told me to "ignore it" when I told him about it. You think he would have talked to the bullies.
@@misspinkpunkykat The classic indifference from the NT adults in authority. Another popular answer in my childhood life was, "They tease you because they like you." Umm, NO, you blankety-blank grownups, they are NOT stealing food from my lunchbox because they like me AND they are NOT throwing rocks at me because they like me.
Is there a correlation between autism and mysticism? I am self diagnosed and pretty mystical. I am on my fourth religion, one without a lot of rigidity and with a lot inclusiveness. I am there to be part of a like minded community. Even within this community, I maintain my independence of thought.
When I was a child, especially in my teens, I was deeply religious. I LOVED my religion, loved the communal aspects of church, etc. I did have some cognitive dissonance. I knew evolution made a lot of sense, the age of the earth didn't jive with biblical teaching, etc. But despite that, I enjoyed my belief. At some point as an adult, I came to grips that, while I was still a christian, I didn't consider the bible to be literally true. I thought about all the signs that my beliefs were false, and thought about what reasons I had for believing. All the reasons I could think of involved wanting certain things to be true (afterlife, seeing my dad and other loved ones again, etc.), but I couldn't think of any rational, evidentiary reasons why I should accept my religious beliefs to be true. After that night, I was an atheist.
Today, I'm quite comfortable with my disbelief. I also recognized some things that weren't so healthy about my previous religious beliefs - feeling guilt over trivial sins that really aren't evil at all, having an imaginary thought police judging my every thought, etc. Struggling with cognitive dissonance wasn't so great. I missed out on some fun during my high school years. I'm no longer making sacrifices for an afterlife that isn't ever going to happen. I no longer mourn for dead family members who I believed were in hell simply for having the wrong religious beliefs (which was a huge mindfuck for a kid.) Up until I was half way through high school, I was in a church that believed that you could lose your salvation if you had any unforgiven sins when you died. When I was baptized, I actually prayed to god and BEGGED him to take my life soon before I had a chance to mess up my salvation. I didn't think about how mentally unhealthy that was until years after I got out. So yeah, at the time I was religious, I at least thought I enjoyed it, and truly enjoyed the communal aspects of it. But I just wasn't aware of how much it harmed me.
"Even at my best, I an unworthy"- a sign in front of a local church.
Enough said, thanks for the reminder, but no thanks, my "devout" Hereticism will do just fine for me- I render more than enough to Ceasar on behalf of my earthly estate without the additional expense of keeping up with the Joneses paying rents on an unearthly one. And if there's any truth at all to be found in all that spilled ink I'll read it for myself.
I'm an agnostic polytheist reconstructionist Pagan. This video really resonated with me.
Dr., seriously, your videos are amazing! They go much further than the average subjects most videos cover. It's impressive how I truly identify with such characteristics that even after my diagnosis, I didn't know they were autistic behaviors. I thought they were just my personal way of being. Thanks a lot for your work. Greetings from Brazil.
Just not caring would be what my religion was for many years and I still don't care. But I've formulated a good response. Found humanism about a decade ago, because as a joke for years instead of saying I was jewish or christian I would say I was a humanist. Finally looked up the word and discovered humanism. And its pretty must what I had always imagined the word to mean. I'm very happy the word means intuitively what it sounds like. So now when I say I am a humanist I really mean it, it just so happens the morals and traits that I have developed and nurtured over the years align with what humanism is about.
Thank you, thank you for this video. This explains some of my experiences, especially after questions. I will keep this comment short but again, thank you.
As an autistic agnostic semi-antitheist, I suspect one reason so many autistic people wouldn't follow a given religion is that we take its claims too seriously. If a religious figure is portrayed as doing things I consider heinous, then I can't just ignore those and I'm too honest to pretend those actions are somehow good.
24:28
My current partner once accused me of not caring about others because I said something to the effect of "I don't care what others think of me, so long as they have enough accurate information to make a valid opinion" (basically, so long as they at least try to get to know me or at least don't pre-judge me, I don't mind if they love or hate me. My feelings on how they treat me is unrelated to this).
This absolutely infuriated me. I happen to care about most people a lot. More than I realistically should, probably. I can hardly bring myself to hate others, and even if I do I still end up caring about them in a human "I'd rather you be safe and content" way.
I clarified the miscommunication, but it was very frustrating to be told something like that from someone who gets a front row seat to how much I actually care and the ways I go out of my way to express it.
I have ASD and am working on my MDiv and am about to begin a Chaplaincy internship. I also believe evolution is compatible with the Bible. The Hebrew word for day in Genesis 1 is "Yom" and just means a period of time. The point of Genesis 1 is not a scientific but a theological explanation based on monotheism in an ancient world dominated by polytheism. My seminary offers an MA in Mental Health Counseling and I want to combine the two.
Thank you for chiming in. I love that you are looking to become a licensed clinician. We need more that are neurodivergent and have a solid knowledge of religion. Best of luck to you on your journey.
Theological over historical account as reflection on God’s creative power and His sovereignty over the created order as indicated in the ‘framework hypothesis’ of Meredith Kline, Henri Blocher et al. In the "Theological Perspective" the text is seen as having no relevance in determining the sequence of events at the time of origins. Hopefully that didn't patronize yah more as a summ for others and a signal that I kinda understand.
Perhaps it's not a question of Hebrew textual exegesis but rather a hermeneutical conclusion driven by factors external to the text and really doesnt annul the historicity of the account.
What do you think Joseph...?
Amazing! I am autistic, and Christianity is a special interest of mine. I also want to spread mental health awareness in the Christian community. I used to be a young earth creationist but last year I changed my mind because theistic evolutionists is compatible with the Bible and makes more sense.
i was diagnosed adhd when i was about 30... now im 60... my nephew is autistic.. in listening to ur presentions tonight..i now wonder if im not autistic to.. i hated church. i appreciate ur vids .. i am lost for words here ..but this makes so much sence to me.. i love the way ur telling "ourstory".. very powerful discussion
I am autistic and Catholic. I converted as an adult and although I didn’t know I was autistic at the time, there was a sense of feeling more welcomed as someone who is “different” than in the denomination I was born into. (Because look at all the saints! I think lots of them were autistic) However, I have a huge problem with priests who don’t do what the missal says to do, who go off on their own script or encourage their choir to do newer modern music that in my opinion is often grating to the ears. I prefer to go to a church that is by the book and has more traditional music. Some churches offer quiet masses too which is nice.
I was thinking about this playing by the rules thing recently.
What's one of the first things you're introduced to as a infant? One of those toys that teach you shapes. Can't fit a square in a round hole can you? But the education system forces this very concept. A one size all education system.
This is why I hated religions and schools my whole life. It was like the world is a huge hammer, smashing me as a squre peg in a round hole.
Love the buffet concept. Love it. Not that it’s good to eat everything on the buffet, you can try a little bit of everything or at least put it on your plate before you get serious and go in on what you find best on your next more serious plate.
In Mormonism, honesty about their history and truthfulness, is frowned upon it drove me insane! I had a greater understanding of people and myself after studying evolution. It definitely help me become a better person.
Mormonism is one of, if not the biggest, fraudulent man made cult on the planet.
8:43 can you cite the sources for these studies? I would love to read about it.
I recently found this spiritual path known by several names; surat shabda yoga, sant mat, path of the masters, master path, etc. I've listened to lots of videos about it and it feels true. It makes everything make sense and ties things together that never made sense to me.
Growing up in church, half of it made no sense to me, but this does about 99% of the time so far.
I wish I'd have heard of it sooner. Luckily I eventually did. It feels like the missing pieces, or the key 🗝️ that make every religion make sense now.
As for religion, I call myself a LaVeyan modern satanist. That fulfills any need i may have of religion. I'm really more of a spiritual person than a religious one.
Great discussion ty.. my Bf is on the spectrum, and a non believer. Years ago we had the discssion.
He shared how he was thrown out of CCD class at age 8 for challenging the teacher. A pretty funny story.
I am spiritual i believe. I explained to him that God the unseen brings me comfort. At a very early age i depemded on my belief system to get me through the things that were tragic in my life.
We respect one anothers beliefs. We have good laughs about it too. 95% of the time i love his brain. I am a diagnosed ADHD er... lived in my own world for my lifetime,, So i really respect and do my best to understand Chris and his thought process. He truly is the most imteresting person i have ever met. ❤
It's about how religion is taught.
It's dramatically dumbed down so that it can easily be used as a tool to wield power and extract money from people.
This also leads for certain people to be attracted.
Most of "religion" has nothing to do with religion. It's just a flavor of the usual NT game.
There is some deeper knowledge to be found in religion, but it's buried under many levels of hypocrisy.
I often joke about when the Southern Baptist Convention will take the WWJD merch, and act Christ like to money changers.
The irony of responding to "the trigger fest at church anymore" with amen! That was my reaction 🤣
6:51 YES. YES. I was raised to believe that evolution is a lie from satan and that the earth is definitely less than 10,000 years old. That definitely helped get me out of the religion once I started accepting that science may be true.
I think that my oppositional defiant disorder and generally inquisitive nature make it impossible for me to be comfortable in organized group settings. Eventually I’m bound to ask the wrong question or blurt out the wrong thing. I’m one of those people who just can’t make any sense out of religion and I hate it when people try to “save” me. I find that to be the worst insult ever.
I love it. Thanks!
Hey Doc, I am in my 60's and have always been considered an odd duck. Never fit in, by my teens I had no desire to fit in because human society is rather fucked, and human beings are, by and large, greedy, selfish individuals who will destroy or damage others for their own gains, outside of the theatre of war.
When I was a boy there was no such thing s an autism spectrum, you were ( I was ) either labeled as a delinquent, or disturbed, or just plain criminal. I watched your post about a neurodivergent world and felt like that is a world that makes fucking sense.
Our human society does not, it is broken, and they will continue to damage the ecosystem until we are all extinct, for personal profit. That is insane, and as such leads me to conclude, decades ago now, that I live in an insane world. One cannot expect rationality, reason or logic to prevail, as the neuro typical make decisions not on reason, but irrationally, by emotions or by asking themselves what another person they respect might do in a situation.
By and large they do not problem solve. Critical thinking is not something they champion.
Am I to understand that there are a LOT of people like me? I am not diagnosed as on the spectrum, but I have an awful lot of the signs you mention, and the world you describe as non neurotypical would suit me to a T.
I can relate! ❤
I was not considered autistic until my late 30s.
Before then, I was just a misfit and outcast. Also, I saw everything as motivational coach platitudes.
I found my faith to be a bedrock in a world that had no apparent rules that I could discern. The more I study, the more I feel its truth and how it aligns with actual life. Added bonus: I absolutely LOVE research, and my faith opened up mountains of data, literal and figurative libraries to comb and research through, be it in archaeology, early church writings, church history, apologetics, philosophy, comparative religion or so many other avenues to delve into.
Excellent video. Thank you for making it, because it's very helpful for both non Neurodivergent and Neurodivergent. I myself recently realized I'm on the autism spectrum. I have had a lot of the same thoughts that you cover in this video, and have concluded, like you have, that each person is on their own path, and we should treat others with the respect that we would want them to treat us with, whatever our beliefs. I grew up in a Catholic family, but I have been on an interesting journey throughout my life to find the truth for me, and have found that I personally want to believe in the God, Yahuah of the Bible. I don't attend a church and I consider myself in the group called Hebrew Roots, which has diverse beliefs based on the Bible. The trouble comes in when humans interpret what the Bible is really saying, and it's not logical to try to understand something that was written thousands of years ago and apply modern ideas on culture, language, etc. that no longer exist and are hard to find in this point in time. But people are trying, and I think just trying and not giving up is something that I respect. I'm satisfied with this area of my life, at least.
Makes me happy to find someone else autistic who has reach a very similar conclusion as I have. I’m actually sort of Hebrew roots I guess. I loosely associate with theunexpectedcosmology (YT and Discord) and MTOI. The Sabbath was made for autist :)
Nice to connect with you! Stay in touch if you would like.
We are on similar paths. I call God YA'OH. I am glad to see you comment. Many ppl in the comments see religion as trauma and tho I have experienced what they have my journey has brought me mainly with just myself a few friends and God and I am content and very happy in keeping the Commandments of God.
Excellent, thank you!
Jesus never liked religiosity. Religion is man made. Anything made by man is flawed, no exceptions. Jesus wants a personal relationship with His followers, which comes out of free will, not rules. You don't have to go to a church to have a relationship with Him. When Jesus speaks of 'the Church', He is not referring to a building or a denomination, but to the community, His followers. His church during His ministry years were public spaces, like a field, or a mountain, or under a tree, or in a town somewhere. Believing in evolution is a religion. What started the big bang? It is scientifically impossible to make even a grain of sand from nothing. Just my two cents.
❤
What a relief I found this as someone like me with autism
Wow. I am totally feeling the respectfulness...lol.
I won't say what religion I am a part of, but I didn't know I was Autistic until my late 30's, which was well after I converted to my current religion. I wish I had known that I was Autistic before I converted. My inability to say no to people, when I don't want to do something, has led to hurt, pain, and a lot of struggle, especially to continue to be a part of my religion. People didn't know that I was Autistic. Religious practitioners just saw me as someone that would do whatever they wanted me to do....
I think Buddhism is a good religon for people in the spectrum or shamanism.
I did not know I was autistic until I was in my early 40's. However I grew up in a very religious household that actually read the bible at home every day of the week, and went to services 3-4 times per week. As a result, I became a youth pastor when I turned 18, and my church even took up a collection to send me to seminary for formal pastoral training.
I took my training very seriously, and wanted to be prepared to answer any question that came my way. Of course, this meant to ask any and every question I could while I studied the bible cover to cover. My asking questions led to being ousted from the church entirely. And the more I asked, the more ostracized I was.
If you love your religion (Christianity in my case) and your beliefs in God, DO NOT read your bible, as doing so leads to questions which don't have good answers. And certainly DO NOT ask questions to find the truth. And most definitely DO NOT hold the belief that things which are TRUE can stand up to scrutiny! If you like believing in God and angels and demons and all of that, then just ignore reality, and just believe what you want without digging into it at all.
My questions finally led me to becoming an agnostic atheist. It's worth being VERY clear here that "agnostic" is not a middle ground between theist and atheist! Theism is a belief in a spiritual pantheon (God(s)/Devils/Angels/Demons/Saints/etc), and the "A" before it means a LACK of having that belief. Gnosticism is the knowing of a thing. For instance, I am gnostic of the things I have personally experienced in my life. If one is gnostic of a thing, they have no need for faith, or belief, because faith and belief is for things which one does not KNOW, but they still think is true. The "A" in front of gnostic, means the exact same thing as the "a" in front of theism... It is the LACK of that quality. Thus, Agnostic = Lacking the direct knowledge of a thing, and Atheist = Lacking a belief in a spiritual pantheon.
So my being an agnostic atheist means that I do not believe in a spiritual pantheon of gods and demons, but I do not know that they don't exist. Do I have evidence that there could be something to a spiritual world? Sure. But I am still agnostic about it, and I certainly don't attribute any projections of human desires and fears onto that.
Anyway... If you want to hold onto the community and comfort of believing in your religion... remember to just enjoy it for what you like about it, DON'T try to force others to follow any religious rules unless they want to (thus don't try to vote such things into laws to control others by taking away their freedoms to choose to live that way or not), and definitely DON'T ask questions that could challenge your foundation of belief.
Thank you for your perfect explanation of agnostic atheist. I just had an "OMG That's me!" Moment.
I've found Agnostics to be a fascinating case study on theological rule bending. I respect your openness and I'm sure that we both agree on many things. A belief that one does not know something is founded upon faith on some level. Picture: (What Simply Is minus Personal Knowledge) It's in a sense a more adapted form of Imitative Atheism to claim one believes that they do not know whether or not God exists because to reference the concept of God is to reference every canon that incorporates God.
@@owendubs "A belief that one does not know something" ... Try as I might, that sounds like word salad, since it makes zero sense if you give it any thought at all..
I often think about how I am towards the side of "I can't know."
@@skylinefever That would be the key point behind Descartes famous quote, "I think, therefore I am."
In his saying that, he means that the experience of existing is truly the only thing anyone can be absolutely certain of.
I am a believer in Jesus Christ, this came later in my life and I have just come to realize I’m on the spectrum. Religion is not church, church is not faith. You can have belief and faith in God without all the trappings of man-made rules (religion) or ever step foot in a church. Bibles are free online. Very good Bible teachers and pastors are free online. Denominations are man-made rules and they often contradict what Jesus taught. I wish you all well. God bless.
Good points here. It seems they often get lost in the emotions about the thing.
Im autistic and was formerly raised Catholic. I'm now irreligious/agnostic/heathen. I hardly believe in or worship anyone or anything anymore. I became slowly less religious when I was in my senior year of high school
Thank you for your efforts your videos are very helpful to me.
I am a 31 year-old white man who was diagnosed a few years ago. I've always had a fascination with religion (mostly Christianity) and yet I still have vivid memories of attending Church gatherings/festivals and thinking to myself, "Boy, this sure is lovely, but I don't feel anything. I can tell that the rest of the crowd feels something and that they genuinely do believe they are connecting with something greater than themselves, but it obviously doesn't involve me." For years I took that as a sign of atheism, but now I understand it was a symptom of my undiagnosed autism--my inability to connect socially with others (especially in large crowds). If intelligent design does (laughably) turn out to be true, then that means God has designed a brain (and brains like mine) which He purposefully wired to not sense His presence. Additionally, if ID is true and He exists in the way they portray Him, then the Devil must exist as well--another brain seemingly wired to rebel. So when a Creationist tries to tell me Evolution is "just a theory" and that I should embrace the Bible and that all else is Satan, I legitimately ask them: "Why wouldn't I align myself with the Devil under these conditions?" The conversation usually ends around there. If, however, they want to have a discussion about their religion and leave the fact of evolution to the scientists, I am more than happy to oblige civilly. I believe that if I were born a thousand years ago I would have been fervently religious--probably a monk or something.
I think your desire to educate and encourage autistic people/parents to have an autistic-friendly approach to religion is noble.
I agree wholeheartedly! Religion and the idea of God is bullshit !!
Seems to me this advice is good for anyone, autistic or otherwise. ❤
I am neruodivergant, 62 years old and a Roman Catholic Monk. I joined The Church at 15, after just walking away from my home and family and traveling to another state. I had wanted to be a Monk since 5 y.o. and I had the chance to meet the president of St.Gregory's Abbey University, and join a Monestary. I attended St.Gregory's University, after I got a GED and turned 18. (I emancipated myself at The Social Security office at 14 y.o.) I left school due to finances and returned in 1989. I graduated and in 2007, because an Oblate Monk, "Order of St Benedict." All of this was after carefully consideration by me, The president of SGU, and My Brothers. So, having an I.Q. of 158, being understood, and planing, all go into religion and how as a Neurodivergent person we accept: Organized Religion. Brother James Kendall Moore OSB
Thank you for the part about parents. Living it with my heartbeat away mom rn.
i rejected religion because it feels like a system of control, and has certainly been practiced that way throughout history in various kinds of religions. i suspect many autistic people feel the same, we reject it because we tend to want our autonomy more so than the neuroptypicals, as well as the fact that it doesn't seem logical to many of us
that said, it seems that autistics are much more likely to be hardcore agnostics/atheists or far more into religion than neurotypicals in both categories, with far less middleground than there is with neurotypicals.
I think it's largely the same for political beliefs', if we get into politics either we tend to be hardcore libertarians or we're radical marxists, again with little in between
I wonder if some of what you talked about here is why I'm so comfortable with my young children knowing Santa, the tooth fairy , etc aren't really lolol
Lol! I am self diagnosed I laugh because I am in and out of the occult, new thought, new age, Buddhism, and Christianity, not to mention an interest in Egyptian deities. Worship fascinates me, but I also have an irreverence towards it. I think I just believe in and admire the huge expanse of the infinite universe and whatever created it!
The Holy Church of Our Lady Who Doesn't Give a Sheit. I like it!
Fellow catholic here, IT helps me , it's awesome to know someone is there for you no matter what,
also religion being a hyperfocus/interest , like knowledge about Marian apparitions, crosses, and other church related stuff
Hate about christianity comes from prejudice based on believers misdeeds towards others,
Would christianity develop if people hated Christ's church because of Judas being one of the apostles?
This sounds like you’ve never actually read the Bible, the hatred of ‘the other’ is written into scripture. The whole book is hate filled.
@@fearnpol4938 excuse me wot
@@fearnpol4938 What you tried to do here is disgusting, ask him/her what she is religious or believe instead ridicule. If you find the bible not for you that's fine but you should know better and respect other people.
@@VindensSagaWhat you tried to do here is disgusting. Ask him/her for examples to illustrate why he/she believes that the Bible is hate-filled instead of calling his/her observations disgusting and falsely accusing him/her of ridicule as opposed to considering the possibility that they are merely trying to educate for the benefit of all those who have suffered directly from the religious beliefs of others. If you have no qualms about the genocides, sacrifices and everyday slavery venerated in the Bible, that's fine, but you should know better and respect other people.
Hate about atheism comes directly from the Bible itself.
I was raised by an evangelical WELS minister who also condoned pedophilia and rape. It was a “realtime” nightmare
I was obsessed with religion for many years, like deeply obsessed with the topic in general. My family was southern baptist. I read the entire bible several times, I could quote it to you. Then i started questioning any literal interpretation of it. I went as far as to learn hebrew and study the kaballah looking for some meaning. Then I toured the religions of the world. I read the quran, I read the bhagavad gita, I studied buddhism, norse gods, greek and roman gods, egyptian deities, shinto, wiccan wood nymphs, etc.
Now I am pretty sure the universe is indifferent, the stories are all made up, and humans have superstitious ape brains. All of the sum of the entirety of all religion boils down to "don't be a dick"
Ditto!