Each time I watch a new episode I think the show can’t possibly veer off further from Tolkien’s writing (or overall style) - and each time I’m proven wrong. I couldn’t wait for your review of episode 5 and now I’m dying to know your thoughts on Episode 6 😂
I really liked the idea in this episode that for Dwarves a ring of power has the effect of allowing them to sense hidden things of interest to them. Not just where to let in the light, but the idea that he can now sense where all the treasure is buried deep, and that the stuff they had found in the past is just a tiny insignificant fraction of it, and how much that idea would drive a dwarf, for good or ill, to obsession. Well done, and VERY Tolkienish! Maybe the best (not to mention cleanest and most concise) representation of both what a ring does, and the effect it can have on its user - ever. And again, too bad that one quick, perfect scene is an insignificant fraction of the whole series, and that kind of drives ME crazy. I guess even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
Thank you for sharing your frustration. And you pointing out that the politician's son has done more evil than Sauron made me enjoy his awfully written character a little more.
Celebrimbor having that sudden moment of lucidity makes absolutely no sense though. He goes from being a witless oaf following sauron’s every cue to suddenly having this moment of cognitive clarity? Out of nowhere. Felt so jarring to watch 😅
You're completely right. The writers seem so afraid that the audience will not feel connected to the show if they dont put in an overkill of references to the LoTR movies that the made the story a discombombulated mess. If they just stuck to the source material they would have probably been a lot better off.
They don't even trust their audience to catch on to subtlety or themes. Everything has to be shoved down the audience's throats, telling us that we should feel a certain way while glossing over the why's.
This episode was at least less boring than the one before it. I totally agree with you on the multiple plots going on at once. It would be a huge improvement if they just focused on the forging of the rings and brought in side plots only when necessary. Right now the relationship between Celebrimbor and Annatar doesn't seem like it progressed naturally. It feels like we're just being told "ok, this is happening now" without much context leading up to it simply because there's not enough time to do so with all these other stories that are being shoved in.
Good job again! I like how you give honest praise and honest criticism both. But can't say I agree much with the notion that the Numenor story might not necessarily belong in the series. I really wish the series had concentrated on the interplay of these two main story lines and thrown all the rest of it out. Showing just those two plot lines and they way they effect each other could have been great had it stuck somewhat to cannon and had great writers working on it. Anyway, your work is a breath of fresh air compared with the suffocatingly over-the-top adulation of nearly every detail on Corey Olson's "Rings and Realms".
I wish the actual rings, for which the show was named after looked like the finely wrought and crafted masterpieces that they are supposed to be and not just cheap costume jewelry with uncut gems and barely any finery.
I hate that they haven’t showed any actual forging of the rings. No smashing with hammers or anvils or anything. Sauron just drops some mithril into a fire and bam rings. Why is celebrimbor not showing us why he’s the greatest elven smith ever
I'm liking the Celebrimbor parts, but with how compressed the timeline is in the show, it feels like he's getting through an awful lot of projects in a very short amount of time? Making the Elven Rings, inventing Ithildin from the left over Mithril, forging the seven, making the Doors of Durin with Narvi in the time its taken Elrond to get to Lindon and back....
The desire for deathlessness is, unfortunately, seemingly treated here as a unique quirk of Ar-Pharazôn and not as the basis for the general split between the Faithful and the King's Men. It is genuinely surprising to me that a devout Mormon like J.D. Payne has managed to almost completely gut the spiritual underpinnings of Tolkien's writings in general, and in the tale of the Second Age in particular. Will we ever hear the phrase, "The gift of Eru to mortals" or anything close? I doubt it.
Imagine the improvements this show would have, if they just completely cut out the Harfoot/Stranger plotline. Would still be very flawed, but we could spend way more time on important stuff. (like the dwarf-elf relationship in Eregion for example)
Stabbing in the back: They skipped the movement. How hard would it have been to show him pulling the sword out and backing away while he fell? There's no issue with where he ended up, but you don't teleport characters around a scene because it looks jarring to the viewer.
Exactly my point. It is absolutely reasonable that he ended up there, but not showing that breaks flow of the scene and takes you out because it is cut as if he teleported to that pillar.
I worry that the show’s example of the “Valar’s justice” might break her. I broke me. A complete abomination of Tolkien’s meaning of who the Valar are. Ugh.
I hate how small the world feels. I remember in the first or 2nd episode of the 1st season when Celebrimbor and Elrond go to Khazad Dum I was like, hell yea this is gonna be a cool adventure but then the next scene is them right outside Khazad Dum!!! I was so upset. I was like, wait, you're seriously just gonna teleport there???? Like, there's ZERO sense of adventure in this show. Compare that to the LOTR or Hobbit trilogies. Such a disaster IMO.
Yoooo in my notes on this episode for my podcast the note I wrote for Pharazon and his son was "Dad, let's make Numenor great!" ... "Your mom said you're gonna die real bad." It was SO out of nowhere! But you're absolutely right. The Sauron/Celebrimbor stuff should have been more fleshed out. We have seen raw ore get stuck into a smelter, but we've seen ZERO rings actually get forged. We've never seen a hammer swung in the act of crafting something. Your notes on blocking are very good too. When Isildur's friend stumbles forward it would have been visually interesting for Phara-Son to stumble backwards into the pillar in the same shot. The issue with the show is that they're so intent on only doing one thing at a time that they're then forced to cut corners. In episode six, it's fifty minutes, and there are legitimately six storylines going on all in the same episode. How in the heck are you going to do anything with less than ten minutes average for any one storyline? Some of them are legitimately two scenes and then nothing else. Sauron instant transmissions from Eregion to Kazad Dum and back all in one episode, AFTER a dead elf shows up to tell us, the audience, that Adar and his army are in the vicinity. Remember when they showed us the travel map like... two or three episodes ago? Remember when that stopped because they needed characters to pop in and out of different places on a whim again? Ffs, this show is dead set on being as convoluted as possible to no real gain. What a tragic waste of money and film resources. An indie studio could have told this story better on a budget 1/10th the size.
A small correction, Alani -- Elendil's vision in the palantír was of himself, not of Isildur. He was riding away from Armenelos in Númenor into the woods.
maybe im giving the show too much credit here but at 6:14 a way i suppose you could look at it here is that while Celebrimbor's rational brain is rejecting Annatar's proposal, as he says this he moves down to Annatars level and meets with him. Thus showing Celebrimbors inner turmoil of while his logical rational self knows this is a bad idea, not something to go along with, and yet Sauron's will and influence and manipulation are so strong that he cant help but do his bidding. idk, might be a stretch
Spherical rock scene: There were damn stairs she had to go down to find the cavern entrance. Not only that, but markets tend to be centrally located in any community that doesn't have cars. Why would they put a market somewhere and not have homes and businesses in every direction, as close to the market as they can get?
I was equally baffled by the politician with daddy issues physically overpowering the soldier who has been to war and sparred with Galadriel. The scene with Disa finding the secret pool and hearing the roar.. I assume that is meant to be the Balrog? How does she know that this sound is some great evil?
Not only do they not portray the friendship between the peoples of Eregion and Khazad-dûm, but strongly suggest that the Elves and Dwarves continue to mistrust one another in general. It is exactly the opposite of what the Doors of Durin are intended to represent ("Those were happier days, when there was still close friendship at times between folk of different race, even between Dwarves and Elves.") Needless to say, the larger theme represented by that friendship - their shared love of the works of Aulë, of art and craft and the making of things and perilous love for 'technology' in the broad sense - is completely lost. And of course the Doors (which are a little shorter than what the book describes) should be invisible, with the inscription ("Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs") only visible because it was made of _ithildin_ ; here, the _ithildin_ is purely decorative since the signs can be read without it. LIke damn near everything else in this show, form without substance.
They really shot themselves in the foot by adding so many plots happening at the same time, its a shame, but at this point there isnt a single well developed relationship between characters in this season. Season 1 was a bit more convincing in this regard at least.
Things happening at the same time that should be happening close to 2000 years apart. None of the Numenoreans we've met should have been born until hundreds of years after the Ring Wraiths were already active in middle earth, well after all the rings were made and Sauron's plot discovered. .
Imagine if season 1 was just the making of the rings, and season 2 was the destruction of Numenor, etc. We could have had Sauron as a Loki-like figure, spreading evil and mischief across Middle Earth 🤔
The worst part is that the show is not bad like some silly Disney/Marvel TV series, it is really bad. It makes no sense, characters that do not act like people and their decision making is as complex as a child. How can a show based on Tolkien of all authors end up like this? It is so sad! Sad is certainly the word for those who love this universe. Imagine if they were to portray the war between the Elves and Mortgoth himself! Feanor would be an angry teenager.
Have you followed Corey Olsen "The Tolkien Professor"? He was an excellent scholar but he's shilling for this series now. I still respect the man he was and hope that he can, Boromir like, achieve redemption. Even so, you are my preferred commenter now. Btw, I mentioned on another video that it was strange that they didn't connect Elrond to Numenor before...the more I revisit the series, the more I get the feeling that THIS Elendil is just "some guy" and not a high noble of the royal line of Elros. Respect and blessings for watching so we can profit from your insight!
The positioning in this show is SO weird at times, I actually had a very had time figuring out who exactly had stabbed Isildur's friend in that one scene. He was so far away, it didn't make the least bit of sense.
Given the original question, "giving it a second chance", or "trying season 2"... ... whether from a Tolkien Nerd's point of view or not or both: would you say it was worth the effort and headaches from desk bruising or having a stroke? Would indeed seeing the Doors made have been worthwhile? I mean, at this point would the Dwarves accept an Elf having the backdoor password to their mountain? > when it comes to their working relationship we have skipped over the honeymoon and gone straight to bickering married couple TIME COMPRESSION! They fast-travelled right through the marriage agreement. She's found a cave. And within are a whole bunch of bats. And she summons and triggers them using the superpower of her voice. Say it with me: Disa is DC's "Black Canary" in the Batcave. > just just stand on your own two feet for God's sake We've seen their feet. They're made of clay. Soft, wet, unset clay.
To your points at the end of the video- the forging of the rings and the dwarven relationship could’ve been this entire show, done better. The harfoots could’ve had their own show. Numenor could’ve been its own show. They were afraid to lose the rights I guess and just crammed it in to one
“We can’t fight both Adar and Sauron.” Uhhh, didn’t you say a few episodes ago that Sauron was by himself with no army or Allies? That was the reason to not send an overwhelming force to Eregion in the first place? Gil Gadaddy not too smart.
I don’t hate the idea that the dwarven rings can be used for insight into mining related activities. What I do hate is that they tied it to such a stupid contrivance. Even making that contrivance the driving force behind the dwarves acquiring rings in the first place. That a) they are incapable of going outside to find or grow food (or even trade for it with others) and b) that they need magical guidance to even figure out where to make a window. It’s kind of absurd.
The not having the strength to defeat Adar and Sauron line is particularly odd when you consider that only one of them is known to have an army. And that even if Sauron did have one, it would have to be drawn from the existing population of orcs, not a fresh one spawned out of nowhere.
I have to say I do mostly enjoy the Rings of Power. I am pretty well read when it comes to Tolkien but I don't regard myself as a purist. Overall I respect a lot of your takes, even though I don't agree with them all. One think that does get my goat though is the dialogue call backs, they seem gratuitous at best and down right stupid at worst. Even the casual ( Lotr film only ) viewer must be taken out of the scene by them. I am though very though much enjoying your overall Sass and general Bitchiness, if I had the inclination I dare say I would share more of it but life's too short. I intend to try out your book shortly if I get the chance.
Thank you so much, and yeah, the callbacks might be my least favorite part of the show. I appreciate your respect even amidst disagreement. It is always refreshing when one can have discussion and differing opinions without it becoming too serious or personal. What a lovely comment! I hope you enjoy my story:D
I'm not sure the crowd scene in Numenor was well done, you have the Numenorean army giving back their gear... and leaving it on a tiny table in what appears to be an alley 😅
Oh, I wasn't even referring to the logic of it. Just the emotion it's trying to evoke. Pretty much every rousing speech or crowd scene in this show has failed to invoke the emotion it is going for. This was the first time I felt it got the closest to its target.
It’s a masterpiece and I’ll tell you for why: The first soldier who surrenders his equipment pushes a bendy rubber knife across the desk. Clearly, this was an intentional subtle metaphor to the Faithful being bent but unbroken. Amazing! It can’t be that they spent millions but couldn’t afford a hero prop for a Numenorean knife.
Ever since Season 1, Kemen, Pharazôn's son, has been my prime suspect for being the future Witch-king, all the more so because he was such a bland and seemingly inessential character in Season 1. Once Pharazôn dies, Kemen would regard himself as the rightful King of the Númenóreans, and would presumably not regard being an undead servant of Sauron as disqualifying him for the position, whereas Elendil and the Faithful would disagree. I strongly suspect that Kemen's mother's prophecy, even though Pharazôn described it as indicating a bad end for Kemen, will turn out to be some variation of "not by the hand of man shall he fall". I also suspected since Season 1 that Valandil would die in a spectacular or memorable way to justify Isildur eventually naming his son after him. Also, Isildur saved Kemen from the ship explosion in Season 1, so imagine how rotten Isildur will feel when he realizes that he saved the life of the man who went on to kill his best friend! Not only is Valandil the first martyr of the conflict between Faithful and King's Men, if Kemen becomes the Witch-king, Valandil was the first man ever killed by him, making his death even more iconic. As much as I like this show, one of the things I've found most awkward and dismaying about this season is that Pharazôn's entire plot to usurp the Sceptre was hatched and laid out in *one scene* -- his conversation in the cantina with Kemen, Eärien and Belzagar in Episode 3. That was material that could potentially have played out over many episodes! The lack of groundwork for the relationship between Celebrimbor and the Dwarves is partly due to circumstances beyond the writers' control. Celebrimbor was recast partway through production of Season 1 because the original actor's performance was too flamboyant. As originally scripted, Season 1 had Celebrimbor enter Khazad-dûm with Elrond and feature in that entire subplot throughout the season, but time constraints prevented filming all that material after the recasting. I thought the passageway from the Dwarven market to the large chamber might have opened due to the recent earthquakes and simply remained unnoticed until Disa lost the tuning stone. BTW, assuming the noise Disa hears is the Balrog, RoP is following Jackson in ignoring Tolkien's statement in one of his letters that "the Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all". Interesting that RoP seems to be following Tolkien canon in that Durin receives his Ring directly from Celebrimbor, whereas the other six Dwarf-lords will presumably receive theirs from Sauron or his emissaries at some point. I would have thought this plot point was far less important than some of the things the show has changed or ignored, but what do I know? The scene of Bilbo mislaying the Ring is exclusive to the FotR Extended Edition, so theoretically fewer people have seen it than most of the movie, although this may no longer be true 22 years later. The parallel between Gil-galad's comment about Adar and Sauron and Elrond's about Mordor and Isengard is at least slightly more interesting because Gil-galad is saying it to Elrond himself.
Of course, the choice to make Kemen the Witch King would be lore breaking, as the Lord of the Nazgul was active in Middle Earth starting in SA 2251 and Ar-Pharazôn was not born until SA 3118. Canonically the events in Númenór should be happening in the year SA 3255 while the events of Eregion should have happened before SA 1600. If they were making any attempt whatsoever to be faithful to the lore, then the best candidate for the Witch King would probably be Tar-Atanamir, the 13th king of Númenór, who was the first to openly question the Ban of the Valar and the first to willingly relinquish his scepter to his son and allow himself to die with dignity. It is said that he died in SA 2221, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that while suffering a mortal illness he donned a ring of power and faded away from the world of the living, becoming invisible wandering the unseen world for 30 years before taking his new position as Sauron's chief lieutenant.
The cave is 10 feet from a busy market but they had just had a series of rock collapses and earthquakes, so maybe it would be feasible in fantasy land that a new door has opened which no-one noticed. I remember playing this game with the original PJ trilogy, "purists" were nitpicking, fans of the movies were trying to show angles from which these things work. There is quite a lot of room for legitimate criticism of the RoP, and also there is a lot of "let's dissect every little decision they made and show them that it can be done better". Now imagine someone with this attitude making a review on every single aspect of your own video... ;)
Hehe. No need to imagine when I'm already that critic for my own videos:) Generally, I believe I am, on the whole, not as nitpicky as other reviewers on this platform as I have deliberately tried to minimize my comparison to Tolkien and focus more on the writing in the show itself. As I have said in one of these reviews, I don't find many of the minor things I point out objectionable in isolation. It is more that there are so many of these minor errors that they culminate into having a significant impact on the viewing experience. At least for me. If you are enjoying it that's wonderful. I am in no way trying to convince someone not to like it. This is just my personal experience with the narrative.
I could nitpick it death if I wanted, its not perfect, but generally speaking, overall I thought this season was great. It captured the spirit of the Second Age pretty well, especially the parts with Sauron. I find the hyperbolic hate for the show baffling. Idk what the fuck so many of you are talking about.
Of all the videos that very much ARE - as you say - 'hyperbolic hate' why are you leaving this comment on this video? I could see your point if this was nerdrotic or thecriticaldrinker. But here? the op is trying to be constructive and isn't remotely hyperbolic.
19:00 Actually, this crackdown in the faithful shouldn't be a thing yet. Only after Ar- Pharazon invaded Mordor, captured Sauron, fell for him and made him his adviser, the faithful were really persecuted.
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I'm watching the show through you now. I gave up on my own.
Smart )
Each time I watch a new episode I think the show can’t possibly veer off further from Tolkien’s writing (or overall style) - and each time I’m proven wrong. I couldn’t wait for your review of episode 5 and now I’m dying to know your thoughts on Episode 6 😂
I think my friends statement of ' I'm just so numb to it now i have no anger left' is very apt.
I really liked the idea in this episode that for Dwarves a ring of power has the effect of allowing them to sense hidden things of interest to them. Not just where to let in the light, but the idea that he can now sense where all the treasure is buried deep, and that the stuff they had found in the past is just a tiny insignificant fraction of it, and how much that idea would drive a dwarf, for good or ill, to obsession. Well done, and VERY Tolkienish! Maybe the best (not to mention cleanest and most concise) representation of both what a ring does, and the effect it can have on its user - ever. And again, too bad that one quick, perfect scene is an insignificant fraction of the whole series, and that kind of drives ME crazy. I guess even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
Thank you for sharing your frustration. And you pointing out that the politician's son has done more evil than Sauron made me enjoy his awfully written character a little more.
Celebrimbor having that sudden moment of lucidity makes absolutely no sense though.
He goes from being a witless oaf following sauron’s every cue to suddenly having this moment of cognitive clarity? Out of nowhere. Felt so jarring to watch 😅
You're completely right. The writers seem so afraid that the audience will not feel connected to the show if they dont put in an overkill of references to the LoTR movies that the made the story a discombombulated mess. If they just stuck to the source material they would have probably been a lot better off.
That's why they shotgunned centuries of lore into the first season: they lack confidence in the audience and themselves to tell a focused story.
They don't even trust their audience to catch on to subtlety or themes. Everything has to be shoved down the audience's throats, telling us that we should feel a certain way while glossing over the why's.
Great analysis as always
This episode was at least less boring than the one before it. I totally agree with you on the multiple plots going on at once. It would be a huge improvement if they just focused on the forging of the rings and brought in side plots only when necessary. Right now the relationship between Celebrimbor and Annatar doesn't seem like it progressed naturally. It feels like we're just being told "ok, this is happening now" without much context leading up to it simply because there's not enough time to do so with all these other stories that are being shoved in.
I honestly can't wait to see your Tolkien takes on this show....❤from West Sussex United Kingdom.
Good job again! I like how you give honest praise and honest criticism both. But can't say I agree much with the notion that the Numenor story might not necessarily belong in the series. I really wish the series had concentrated on the interplay of these two main story lines and thrown all the rest of it out. Showing just those two plot lines and they way they effect each other could have been great had it stuck somewhat to cannon and had great writers working on it. Anyway, your work is a breath of fresh air compared with the suffocatingly over-the-top adulation of nearly every detail on Corey Olson's "Rings and Realms".
I wish the actual rings, for which the show was named after looked like the finely wrought and crafted masterpieces that they are supposed to be and not just cheap costume jewelry with uncut gems and barely any finery.
I hate that they haven’t showed any actual forging of the rings. No smashing with hammers or anvils or anything. Sauron just drops some mithril into a fire and bam rings. Why is celebrimbor not showing us why he’s the greatest elven smith ever
Episode 6 shows him sketching ring designs 🤣
I'm liking the Celebrimbor parts, but with how compressed the timeline is in the show, it feels like he's getting through an awful lot of projects in a very short amount of time? Making the Elven Rings, inventing Ithildin from the left over Mithril, forging the seven, making the Doors of Durin with Narvi in the time its taken Elrond to get to Lindon and back....
The desire for deathlessness is, unfortunately, seemingly treated here as a unique quirk of Ar-Pharazôn and not as the basis for the general split between the Faithful and the King's Men.
It is genuinely surprising to me that a devout Mormon like J.D. Payne has managed to almost completely gut the spiritual underpinnings of Tolkien's writings in general, and in the tale of the Second Age in particular. Will we ever hear the phrase, "The gift of Eru to mortals" or anything close? I doubt it.
Actually the show has plenty of spiritual content, and theyre just starting the corruption of Numenor arc, theres plenty of time for all that.
Thank you for breaking down Rings of Power. Saves me from watching it
Imagine the improvements this show would have, if they just completely cut out the Harfoot/Stranger plotline.
Would still be very flawed, but we could spend way more time on important stuff. (like the dwarf-elf relationship in Eregion for example)
Stabbing in the back:
They skipped the movement. How hard would it have been to show him pulling the sword out and backing away while he fell? There's no issue with where he ended up, but you don't teleport characters around a scene because it looks jarring to the viewer.
Exactly my point. It is absolutely reasonable that he ended up there, but not showing that breaks flow of the scene and takes you out because it is cut as if he teleported to that pillar.
@@AlaniTheScriptMage it seems to be how this show works. Skipping to the end result and not showing the important steps in how they got there.
Just wait, it gets even better in episode 6! 😜
I worry that the show’s example of the “Valar’s justice” might break her. I broke me. A complete abomination of Tolkien’s meaning of who the Valar are. Ugh.
I hate how small the world feels. I remember in the first or 2nd episode of the 1st season when Celebrimbor and Elrond go to Khazad Dum I was like, hell yea this is gonna be a cool adventure but then the next scene is them right outside Khazad Dum!!! I was so upset. I was like, wait, you're seriously just gonna teleport there???? Like, there's ZERO sense of adventure in this show. Compare that to the LOTR or Hobbit trilogies. Such a disaster IMO.
Yoooo in my notes on this episode for my podcast the note I wrote for Pharazon and his son was "Dad, let's make Numenor great!" ... "Your mom said you're gonna die real bad."
It was SO out of nowhere! But you're absolutely right. The Sauron/Celebrimbor stuff should have been more fleshed out. We have seen raw ore get stuck into a smelter, but we've seen ZERO rings actually get forged. We've never seen a hammer swung in the act of crafting something. Your notes on blocking are very good too. When Isildur's friend stumbles forward it would have been visually interesting for Phara-Son to stumble backwards into the pillar in the same shot. The issue with the show is that they're so intent on only doing one thing at a time that they're then forced to cut corners. In episode six, it's fifty minutes, and there are legitimately six storylines going on all in the same episode. How in the heck are you going to do anything with less than ten minutes average for any one storyline? Some of them are legitimately two scenes and then nothing else. Sauron instant transmissions from Eregion to Kazad Dum and back all in one episode, AFTER a dead elf shows up to tell us, the audience, that Adar and his army are in the vicinity. Remember when they showed us the travel map like... two or three episodes ago? Remember when that stopped because they needed characters to pop in and out of different places on a whim again? Ffs, this show is dead set on being as convoluted as possible to no real gain. What a tragic waste of money and film resources. An indie studio could have told this story better on a budget 1/10th the size.
A small correction, Alani -- Elendil's vision in the palantír was of himself, not of Isildur. He was riding away from Armenelos in Númenor into the woods.
Good polite call out. 👍
Good catch. I'm glad that makes much more sense.
So far my favorite part is 9:36, “so they have that scene.” But I’m only at 9:37.
Years from now, THIS video series will be what people watch as THE criticism of this show. The algorithm just won't get it to the people in time.
Thank you! What an incredible compliment. I hope you are right:)
maybe im giving the show too much credit here but at 6:14 a way i suppose you could look at it here is that while Celebrimbor's rational brain is rejecting Annatar's proposal, as he says this he moves down to Annatars level and meets with him. Thus showing Celebrimbors inner turmoil of while his logical rational self knows this is a bad idea, not something to go along with, and yet Sauron's will and influence and manipulation are so strong that he cant help but do his bidding. idk, might be a stretch
Spherical rock scene:
There were damn stairs she had to go down to find the cavern entrance. Not only that, but markets tend to be centrally located in any community that doesn't have cars. Why would they put a market somewhere and not have homes and businesses in every direction, as close to the market as they can get?
Because there's a monster in that particular one.
They should have put up a sign, at least: "MIND THE BALROG"
Its jarring to not use Kelly Belly's real name.
I was equally baffled by the politician with daddy issues physically overpowering the soldier who has been to war and sparred with Galadriel. The scene with Disa finding the secret pool and hearing the roar.. I assume that is meant to be the Balrog? How does she know that this sound is some great evil?
Elendil, who with Gil Galad, fights Sauron and defeats him, is stopped by one NPC soldier hugging him from behind.
Not only do they not portray the friendship between the peoples of Eregion and Khazad-dûm, but strongly suggest that the Elves and Dwarves continue to mistrust one another in general. It is exactly the opposite of what the Doors of Durin are intended to represent ("Those were happier days, when there was still close friendship at times between folk of different race, even between Dwarves and Elves.") Needless to say, the larger theme represented by that friendship - their shared love of the works of Aulë, of art and craft and the making of things and perilous love for 'technology' in the broad sense - is completely lost. And of course the Doors (which are a little shorter than what the book describes) should be invisible, with the inscription ("Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs") only visible because it was made of _ithildin_ ; here, the _ithildin_ is purely decorative since the signs can be read without it. LIke damn near everything else in this show, form without substance.
Yes! It's such a tragedy they so utterly fail to convey that shared love of craft. It is magnificent and beautiful and utterly buried in nonsense.
Can’t watch the show without cringing so I come here to find out how it went.
basically, pharazon is the logan roy of numenor.
About the only thing that can save this season (not talking canon or non-canon) is some destruction wrought by the Balrog. Make it so.
They really shot themselves in the foot by adding so many plots happening at the same time, its a shame, but at this point there isnt a single well developed relationship between characters in this season. Season 1 was a bit more convincing in this regard at least.
Things happening at the same time that should be happening close to 2000 years apart. None of the Numenoreans we've met should have been born until hundreds of years after the Ring Wraiths were already active in middle earth, well after all the rings were made and Sauron's plot discovered. .
Does anyone else feel like the Celebrimbor of this show would be a great Hobbit? He could easily portray Bilbo
The tragedy of this show to me feels like… there’s a better show trapped inside it trying to get out.
Imagine if season 1 was just the making of the rings, and season 2 was the destruction of Numenor, etc. We could have had Sauron as a Loki-like figure, spreading evil and mischief across Middle Earth 🤔
The worst part is that the show is not bad like some silly Disney/Marvel TV series, it is really bad. It makes no sense, characters that do not act like people and their decision making is as complex as a child. How can a show based on Tolkien of all authors end up like this? It is so sad! Sad is certainly the word for those who love this universe. Imagine if they were to portray the war between the Elves and Mortgoth himself! Feanor would be an angry teenager.
Given how badly they screwed up the chronology, it wouldn't surprise me if these show runners had Feanor fighting at Helm's Deep.
Have you followed Corey Olsen "The Tolkien Professor"? He was an excellent scholar but he's shilling for this series now. I still respect the man he was and hope that he can, Boromir like, achieve redemption. Even so, you are my preferred commenter now.
Btw, I mentioned on another video that it was strange that they didn't connect Elrond to Numenor before...the more I revisit the series, the more I get the feeling that THIS Elendil is just "some guy" and not a high noble of the royal line of Elros.
Respect and blessings for watching so we can profit from your insight!
Gil-Galad, the jowly elf...
The positioning in this show is SO weird at times, I actually had a very had time figuring out who exactly had stabbed Isildur's friend in that one scene. He was so far away, it didn't make the least bit of sense.
Given the original question, "giving it a second chance", or "trying season 2"...
... whether from a Tolkien Nerd's point of view or not or both: would you say it was worth the effort and headaches from desk bruising or having a stroke?
Would indeed seeing the Doors made have been worthwhile? I mean, at this point would the Dwarves accept an Elf having the backdoor password to their mountain?
> when it comes to their working relationship we have skipped over the honeymoon and gone straight to bickering married couple
TIME COMPRESSION! They fast-travelled right through the marriage agreement.
She's found a cave. And within are a whole bunch of bats. And she summons and triggers them using the superpower of her voice. Say it with me: Disa is DC's "Black Canary" in the Batcave.
> just just stand on your own two feet for God's sake
We've seen their feet. They're made of clay. Soft, wet, unset clay.
To your points at the end of the video- the forging of the rings and the dwarven relationship could’ve been this entire show, done better. The harfoots could’ve had their own show. Numenor could’ve been its own show. They were afraid to lose the rights I guess and just crammed it in to one
“We can’t fight both Adar and Sauron.”
Uhhh, didn’t you say a few episodes ago that Sauron was by himself with no army or Allies? That was the reason to not send an overwhelming force to Eregion in the first place?
Gil Gadaddy not too smart.
(The) she is always right.
I don’t hate the idea that the dwarven rings can be used for insight into mining related activities. What I do hate is that they tied it to such a stupid contrivance. Even making that contrivance the driving force behind the dwarves acquiring rings in the first place. That a) they are incapable of going outside to find or grow food (or even trade for it with others) and b) that they need magical guidance to even figure out where to make a window. It’s kind of absurd.
The not having the strength to defeat Adar and Sauron line is particularly odd when you consider that only one of them is known to have an army. And that even if Sauron did have one, it would have to be drawn from the existing population of orcs, not a fresh one spawned out of nowhere.
I have to say I do mostly enjoy the Rings of Power. I am pretty well read when it comes to Tolkien but I don't regard myself as a purist. Overall I respect a lot of your takes, even though I don't agree with them all. One think that does get my goat though is the dialogue call backs, they seem gratuitous at best and down right stupid at worst. Even the casual ( Lotr film only ) viewer must be taken out of the scene by them. I am though very though much enjoying your overall Sass and general Bitchiness, if I had the inclination I dare say I would share more of it but life's too short. I intend to try out your book shortly if I get the chance.
Thank you so much, and yeah, the callbacks might be my least favorite part of the show. I appreciate your respect even amidst disagreement. It is always refreshing when one can have discussion and differing opinions without it becoming too serious or personal. What a lovely comment!
I hope you enjoy my story:D
I'm thinking this might be the best episode yet, but that isn't saying much.
"This would have been fun to see" -> ... but only if it was well-written. So we're probably better off when they skip an interesting part.
So many people are going to be introduced to Tolkien through this. Shameful 😢
I'm not sure the crowd scene in Numenor was well done, you have the Numenorean army giving back their gear... and leaving it on a tiny table in what appears to be an alley 😅
Oh, I wasn't even referring to the logic of it. Just the emotion it's trying to evoke. Pretty much every rousing speech or crowd scene in this show has failed to invoke the emotion it is going for. This was the first time I felt it got the closest to its target.
It’s a masterpiece and I’ll tell you for why: The first soldier who surrenders his equipment pushes a bendy rubber knife across the desk. Clearly, this was an intentional subtle metaphor to the Faithful being bent but unbroken. Amazing! It can’t be that they spent millions but couldn’t afford a hero prop for a Numenorean knife.
sorry I cant even watch a reaction about that shit.
Annatar was doing so well manipulating her and then as soon as he made the hair comment I was like EUUGHH WHY. Grossed out. Creepy man. No
Ever since Season 1, Kemen, Pharazôn's son, has been my prime suspect for being the future Witch-king, all the more so because he was such a bland and seemingly inessential character in Season 1. Once Pharazôn dies, Kemen would regard himself as the rightful King of the Númenóreans, and would presumably not regard being an undead servant of Sauron as disqualifying him for the position, whereas Elendil and the Faithful would disagree.
I strongly suspect that Kemen's mother's prophecy, even though Pharazôn described it as indicating a bad end for Kemen, will turn out to be some variation of "not by the hand of man shall he fall". I also suspected since Season 1 that Valandil would die in a spectacular or memorable way to justify Isildur eventually naming his son after him. Also, Isildur saved Kemen from the ship explosion in Season 1, so imagine how rotten Isildur will feel when he realizes that he saved the life of the man who went on to kill his best friend! Not only is Valandil the first martyr of the conflict between Faithful and King's Men, if Kemen becomes the Witch-king, Valandil was the first man ever killed by him, making his death even more iconic.
As much as I like this show, one of the things I've found most awkward and dismaying about this season is that Pharazôn's entire plot to usurp the Sceptre was hatched and laid out in *one scene* -- his conversation in the cantina with Kemen, Eärien and Belzagar in Episode 3. That was material that could potentially have played out over many episodes!
The lack of groundwork for the relationship between Celebrimbor and the Dwarves is partly due to circumstances beyond the writers' control. Celebrimbor was recast partway through production of Season 1 because the original actor's performance was too flamboyant. As originally scripted, Season 1 had Celebrimbor enter Khazad-dûm with Elrond and feature in that entire subplot throughout the season, but time constraints prevented filming all that material after the recasting.
I thought the passageway from the Dwarven market to the large chamber might have opened due to the recent earthquakes and simply remained unnoticed until Disa lost the tuning stone. BTW, assuming the noise Disa hears is the Balrog, RoP is following Jackson in ignoring Tolkien's statement in one of his letters that "the Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all".
Interesting that RoP seems to be following Tolkien canon in that Durin receives his Ring directly from Celebrimbor, whereas the other six Dwarf-lords will presumably receive theirs from Sauron or his emissaries at some point. I would have thought this plot point was far less important than some of the things the show has changed or ignored, but what do I know?
The scene of Bilbo mislaying the Ring is exclusive to the FotR Extended Edition, so theoretically fewer people have seen it than most of the movie, although this may no longer be true 22 years later. The parallel between Gil-galad's comment about Adar and Sauron and Elrond's about Mordor and Isengard is at least slightly more interesting because Gil-galad is saying it to Elrond himself.
Of course, the choice to make Kemen the Witch King would be lore breaking, as the Lord of the Nazgul was active in Middle Earth starting in SA 2251 and Ar-Pharazôn was not born until SA 3118.
Canonically the events in Númenór should be happening in the year SA 3255 while the events of Eregion should have happened before SA 1600.
If they were making any attempt whatsoever to be faithful to the lore, then the best candidate for the Witch King would probably be Tar-Atanamir, the 13th king of Númenór, who was the first to openly question the Ban of the Valar and the first to willingly relinquish his scepter to his son and allow himself to die with dignity. It is said that he died in SA 2221, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that while suffering a mortal illness he donned a ring of power and faded away from the world of the living, becoming invisible wandering the unseen world for 30 years before taking his new position as Sauron's chief lieutenant.
Ohohoho, if you like infuriating references to LotR moments, episode 6 is going to be a DOOZY for you
You are what you watch.
The cave is 10 feet from a busy market but they had just had a series of rock collapses and earthquakes, so maybe it would be feasible in fantasy land that a new door has opened which no-one noticed. I remember playing this game with the original PJ trilogy, "purists" were nitpicking, fans of the movies were trying to show angles from which these things work. There is quite a lot of room for legitimate criticism of the RoP, and also there is a lot of "let's dissect every little decision they made and show them that it can be done better". Now imagine someone with this attitude making a review on every single aspect of your own video... ;)
Hehe. No need to imagine when I'm already that critic for my own videos:)
Generally, I believe I am, on the whole, not as nitpicky as other reviewers on this platform as I have deliberately tried to minimize my comparison to Tolkien and focus more on the writing in the show itself. As I have said in one of these reviews, I don't find many of the minor things I point out objectionable in isolation. It is more that there are so many of these minor errors that they culminate into having a significant impact on the viewing experience. At least for me. If you are enjoying it that's wonderful. I am in no way trying to convince someone not to like it. This is just my personal experience with the narrative.
I could nitpick it death if I wanted, its not perfect, but generally speaking, overall I thought this season was great. It captured the spirit of the Second Age pretty well, especially the parts with Sauron. I find the hyperbolic hate for the show baffling. Idk what the fuck so many of you are talking about.
Of all the videos that very much ARE - as you say - 'hyperbolic hate' why are you leaving this comment on this video? I could see your point if this was nerdrotic or thecriticaldrinker. But here? the op is trying to be constructive and isn't remotely hyperbolic.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u im mainly talking about the comment section
You are not one of the redacted kind of people who do that.. so why do you have such masuchistic tendencies and still try to find any good about this?
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Actually, this crackdown in the faithful shouldn't be a thing yet.
Only after Ar- Pharazon invaded Mordor, captured Sauron, fell for him and made him his adviser, the faithful were really persecuted.
Good point!