Brilliant Tom! I think here with Ethanol it might make a difference. Also the brand and type of oil used. I always have my customers bring me a fresh container of what they will use and tune it to THEIR mixture just in case.
In theory AFR / Lambda will change. But did you ever bother to calculate how much? I can tell you already that it is so minuscule going from 2% to 2.5% or even 3. If you make a bigger change, then maybe slight tuning is needed. A much bigger variable is the air density (pressure and temperature) will certainly change your AFR. But there is a problem - some of the oil will burn(substituting the fuel), some will go out the exhaust. How much we don't know. Also an other thing. The more oil you have, the better the rings will seal and make more power & torque. More oil could also mean better heat transfer for rings & piston. So it is not so simple. Changing one thing can have multiple impacts, some positive and some negative.. Anyways. I guess what you could try is: keep the line normal length so any potential clutch slippage is eliminated. When engine is fully warmed up tune for the highest wot RPM possible. Then try to increase amount of oil, and check after a couple minutes of wot and keeping it pinned open H jet slightly to see what RPM does. It should, in theory be slightly lean of peak torque, therefore when you bring back AFR to peak torque RPM shall climb. (I guess you have realized aerodynamic drag, the line/string, increases and therefore torque increases when RPM goes up - btw, it is exponential). If you read manuals from other markets, areas that has little to no emission requirements, you'll be able to find some manufactures recommending more oil than just 50:1 / 2%. That indicates to me that just 2% is not the best for the engine. 2# A lot of professionals can get more hours out of a chainsaw if they run more oil in their fuel. 3# And you can get better oil than just stihl, husky. Echo red armor is quite good. (I see that you use Saber which is descent but 2.5% is probably better for the engine) Check out Richard Flagg's channel if you haven't yet. That was my two cents.
Yep, as shown here, changing oil ratios within the generally range 32:1-50:1 won’t affect tune. I know Richard, both through OPE forum and RUclips. He’s a good guy
I put 32 to 1 in the weed-eater from the beginning, and turned out both high and low needles as per what I was “taught” in the mid-late seventies - richen it out *under load* till it blubbers (four stroking) then lean it out on the high speed until it *just* stops blubbering. You then set the low speed such that it gives a steady idle while accelerating smoothly to full speed.
Great perspective and topic Tom. For two-stroke engines sufficient lubrication is obtained when the fuel contains enough oil to create an oil film between moving metal parts. Increasing the amount of available oil has no benefit for the engine as it just gets burned off. Reduced RPM is natural as oil burns differently from gasoline and the amount of gasoline is replaced with more oil = less engine power. A more efficient way of ensuring additional lubrication to the engine is to set the carburetor at a richer setting - which many manufactures in the past recommended for the break-in period. Octane above the required minimum has no benefit as octane only describes the fuels ability to withstand pre-ignition which is rarely an issue in small two-stroke engine as ignition timing is preset. In theory a small two-stroke engine will run better on 87 octane than 91 octane as the lesser octane is easier to ignite. Higher octane does not mean higher energy content. (Joules per weight unit) Whether the increased amount of oil (=less gasoline) has an effect of the cooling function of the fuel I have no information on this. The use of gasoline containing ethanol will increase the combustion temperatur and two-stroke oil will not mix with ethanol. Sorry Tom I got carried away here🤣🤣
You’re wrong the higher the octane the more fuel that is converted to be used if that was true race cars wouldn’t use 110 octane and nitrous injection, people always look to save money than spend more and the higher the octane the more you spend so you’re wrong throw some 110 octane in a two stoke listen to it pur and use nitrous to watch it explode. Diesel would be great for two stokes and the best hence why they will probably never make one
Perhaps the oddball middle reading could have been a function of the overall operating temperature?I think seeing a IR temp gauge would be interesting, however it would require running it for an extended of time, (like 8-10 minutes) to get it to a stable temp. Lots of variables, but still interesting. In my 2 wheeled two-stroke world, "fully warmed up" is not just a few minutes revving the engine on the stand, its 10-15 minutes of driving on the road.
I assumed that it would matter very little... but I would test it with a laser thermometer to see if it gets hotter. Funny how the 40:1 was less RPM... Great comparison study, mate!
Thanks for taking the time to do that I have a tach but never tried it. My Mtronic and Autotune saws definitely notice the change between Aspen and UK Spec non-ethanol 99 octane fuel. I run 45:1 fuel and that's fine.
It's interesting that it didn't like 40:1 as much as the other 2. I may have missed it but, what was the mix recommendation for that weed eater? The next 2 questions that would be interesting are exhaust temps and what the plug looks like after running it a few times.
If we do service two stroke trimmers and we do only if they are in running condition we always dump the customer fuel and fill with Kinetics alkylate 50:1 fuel then give them the balance of the can at a cost of $10 tax included. Normally we do this for winter storage of the two stroke equipment and have not had a unit returned for no start in the spring (over a period of 8+ years now). Prior to getting the Kinetics we were using the Aspen alkylate fuel.
Very nice video Tom just a thought : Ken at KSE did a video showing the inconsistency of using a pulse tach without the wire is it possible this is why you got some weird readings you did not expect?
Thanks Don! I tried my best to be accurate, and of course, this is a very small test sample! It’s the best I could do until Project Farm does it properly 😂
I just used eBay mate, but a fair warning it’s about 380 Aussi dollars. It’s really not necessary, but if I buy something I like to buy once cry once and get the best I can afford: www.ebay.com.au/itm/264019144732
No it wont, I have experimented more then I should in 2 stokes and never had problems what so ever. And when I say experiment I mean. Petrol mixed with, Used 15w40 engine oil from Toyota, Diesel mixed heavly with the engine smoking white all the time, Straight sae30 oil mixed instead of 2t oil. Have even forgot to mix any oil one time and had no issue, it was on a chinese motorized bicycle. If you know how much faster it felt with petrol only, it was crazy and that made me think and remembered that the gas that was in it was dry from oil.
RPM is not a good indicator by itself. Heat at the head is best. Why has no one installed a temp. guage that uses a washer under the spark plug. Common with scooters, etc. For the record I like Echo Red Armor at 3 oz per gallon. About 42 to 1.
Brilliant Tom! I think here with Ethanol it might make a difference. Also the brand and type of oil used. I always have my customers bring me a fresh container of what they will use and tune it to THEIR mixture just in case.
No harm in that at all ken!! Lots of variables, absolutely :)
Nice explanation and demonstration Tom. 👍
Thanks John!
I’m no Claus so I didn’t have a tech savvy response. 🤣
In theory AFR / Lambda will change. But did you ever bother to calculate how much? I can tell you already that it is so minuscule going from 2% to 2.5% or even 3. If you make a bigger change, then maybe slight tuning is needed. A much bigger variable is the air density (pressure and temperature) will certainly change your AFR.
But there is a problem - some of the oil will burn(substituting the fuel), some will go out the exhaust. How much we don't know.
Also an other thing. The more oil you have, the better the rings will seal and make more power & torque. More oil could also mean better heat transfer for rings & piston.
So it is not so simple. Changing one thing can have multiple impacts, some positive and some negative.. Anyways.
I guess what you could try is: keep the line normal length so any potential clutch slippage is eliminated. When engine is fully warmed up tune for the highest wot RPM possible.
Then try to increase amount of oil, and check after a couple minutes of wot and keeping it pinned open H jet slightly to see what RPM does. It should, in theory be slightly lean of peak torque, therefore when you bring back AFR to peak torque RPM shall climb. (I guess you have realized aerodynamic drag, the line/string, increases and therefore torque increases when RPM goes up - btw, it is exponential).
If you read manuals from other markets, areas that has little to no emission requirements, you'll be able to find some manufactures recommending more oil than just 50:1 / 2%. That indicates to me that just 2% is not the best for the engine.
2# A lot of professionals can get more hours out of a chainsaw if they run more oil in their fuel.
3# And you can get better oil than just stihl, husky. Echo red armor is quite good. (I see that you use Saber which is descent but 2.5% is probably better for the engine)
Check out Richard Flagg's channel if you haven't yet.
That was my two cents.
Yep, as shown here, changing oil ratios within the generally range 32:1-50:1 won’t affect tune. I know Richard, both through OPE forum and RUclips. He’s a good guy
I put 32 to 1 in the weed-eater from the beginning, and turned out both high and low needles as per what I was “taught” in the mid-late seventies - richen it out *under load* till it blubbers (four stroking) then lean it out on the high speed until it *just* stops blubbering.
You then set the low speed such that it gives a steady idle while accelerating smoothly to full speed.
Yep :) sounds good
Great perspective and topic Tom. For two-stroke engines sufficient lubrication is obtained when the fuel contains enough oil to create an oil film between moving metal parts. Increasing the amount of available oil has no benefit for the engine as it just gets burned off. Reduced RPM is natural as oil burns differently from gasoline and the amount of gasoline is replaced with more oil = less engine power. A more efficient way of ensuring additional lubrication to the engine is to set the carburetor at a richer setting - which many manufactures in the past recommended for the break-in period. Octane above the required minimum has no benefit as octane only describes the fuels ability to withstand pre-ignition which is rarely an issue in small two-stroke engine as ignition timing is preset. In theory a small two-stroke engine will run better on 87 octane than 91 octane as the lesser octane is easier to ignite. Higher octane does not mean higher energy content. (Joules per weight unit) Whether the increased amount of oil (=less gasoline) has an effect of the cooling function of the fuel I have no information on this. The use of gasoline containing ethanol will increase the combustion temperatur and two-stroke oil will not mix with ethanol. Sorry Tom I got carried away here🤣🤣
Hahaha thanks Claus 😂 I forgot your passion for 2 stroke oil. Thanks for watching and sharing your knowledge buddy - it’s always appreciated!!
Интересная мысль. Я, думал что с меньшим октановым числом легче взрывается, чем воспломеняется. Вы, любите дырки на поршне?
You’re wrong the higher the octane the more fuel that is converted to be used if that was true race cars wouldn’t use 110 octane and nitrous injection, people always look to save money than spend more and the higher the octane the more you spend so you’re wrong throw some 110 octane in a two stoke listen to it pur and use nitrous to watch it explode. Diesel would be great for two stokes and the best hence why they will probably never make one
@@shangrilaladeda let's agree to disagree 😃
@@HobbyMotorDK okay good for you, I know exactly why everything is and how it all works life is too simple for me so enjoy
Perhaps the oddball middle reading could have been a function of the overall operating temperature?I think seeing a IR temp gauge would be interesting, however it would require running it for an extended of time, (like 8-10 minutes) to get it to a stable temp. Lots of variables, but still interesting. In my 2 wheeled two-stroke world, "fully warmed up" is not just a few minutes revving the engine on the stand, its 10-15 minutes of driving on the road.
Thanks for sharing Stella! The temp gauge and more time would have been interesting! Maybe something for a future video :)
The more oil the hotter it runs. Also depends on the burn point of the oil and type of oil. Outboard oil burns even hotter.
Yeah, I didn’t test the temperatures, that would have been curious to have done!
I assumed that it would matter very little... but I would test it with a laser thermometer to see if it gets hotter. Funny how the 40:1 was less RPM... Great comparison study, mate!
Thanks Paul! That’s a great idea to see temp changes :)
Thanks for taking the time to do that I have a tach but never tried it. My Mtronic and Autotune saws definitely notice the change between Aspen and UK Spec non-ethanol 99 octane fuel. I run 45:1 fuel and that's fine.
Nice :) thanks for sharing!
It's interesting that it didn't like 40:1 as much as the other 2. I may have missed it but, what was the mix recommendation for that weed eater? The next 2 questions that would be interesting are exhaust temps and what the plug looks like after running it a few times.
I agree bill both would have been interesting to have recorded! Thanks for watching :)
If we do service two stroke trimmers and we do only if they are in running condition we always dump the customer fuel and fill with Kinetics alkylate 50:1 fuel then give them the balance of the can at a cost of $10 tax included. Normally we do this for winter storage of the two stroke equipment and have not had a unit returned for no start in the spring (over a period of 8+ years now). Prior to getting the Kinetics we were using the Aspen alkylate fuel.
That’s interesting Wayne! Thanks for sharing mate :)
Very nice video Tom just a thought : Ken at KSE did a video showing the inconsistency of using a pulse tach without the wire is it possible this is why you got some weird readings you did not expect?
Hey mate, na I don’t have that issue! It’s very accurate :) should be for $350! LOL.
That's a good question ⁉️ it'll be interesting to see the comments! Thanks for the video!
Thanks Don! I tried my best to be accurate, and of course, this is a very small test sample! It’s the best I could do until Project Farm does it properly 😂
Hey Tom, do you have a link for the contactless Tacho please?
I just used eBay mate, but a fair warning it’s about 380 Aussi dollars. It’s really not necessary, but if I buy something I like to buy once cry once and get the best I can afford:
www.ebay.com.au/itm/264019144732
Great idea for a video. I run all my 2 stroke machines on 50:1, can’t be bothered mixing up other ratios.
Sure thing Al :) thanks for watching !!
I knew there was a reason I liked you! 🤣
@@GuysPlayingWithTools what cause I use 50:1, and I thought it was due to my charisma and Scot’s accent 😄
@@almclean4835 The charm... That certainly doesn't hurt
na don't think you would seize a engine as long as it has oil in mixture to much oil will just make it smoke more but a good video Tom👍
Thanks for watching buddy :) my prediction was that adding more oil won’t lean the engine out. It was nice to confirm it!
No it wont, I have experimented more then I should in 2 stokes and never had problems what so ever. And when I say experiment I mean. Petrol mixed with, Used 15w40 engine oil from Toyota, Diesel mixed heavly with the engine smoking white all the time, Straight sae30 oil mixed instead of 2t oil. Have even forgot to mix any oil one time and had no issue, it was on a chinese motorized bicycle. If you know how much faster it felt with petrol only, it was crazy and that made me think and remembered that the gas that was in it was dry from oil.
Thanks for sharing!
@@VintageEngineRepairs and btw I runn all mine with 20:1 or some times i put some more oil.
RPM is not a good indicator by itself. Heat at the head is best. Why has no one installed a temp. guage that uses a washer under the spark plug. Common with scooters, etc. For the record I like Echo Red Armor at 3 oz per gallon. About 42 to 1.
👍🏻👍🏻
yeah what claus said
😂👍