Unlike the prophets, who always began their discourse by saying, "Thus says the Lord," Jesus would begin by saying, "I say unto you." It seems he did not see himself as a prophet, but as THE Prophet, the one that was believed to be predicted by Moses (DT 18: 15 - 19). This is what is meant in the Synoptics that Jesus spoke with authority.
Yes the pagans believe man becoming gods was the ultimate goal. But with Christ it is God, the only unique God, humbling Himself and becoming an ordinary man. Nothing "super human", but a man and live a holy life acceptable to a holy God. This is why the pagans saw Christianity as offensive to their pagan religions. In paganism there is no real notion of a God which we commonly believe in today, their gods were more like spoiled children. Not really God.
The early churchs (Jerusalem Antioch) make a distinction between GOD and Jesus. Its GOD's doing, that he raised Jesus not Jesus raised himself. The earthly Jesus did not claim himself to be worshiped dispite the spiratual symbolic rhetoric of the gospels. But his Jewish followers very early on through perhaps a spiratual revelation believed to their hearts that GOD had raised their messiah to heavenly glory and now Jesus shared in substance the divine glory of GOD. This is post Easter. To them his followers GOD commands worship of Christ and its obedient to do so. This caused many Jews to fear a potential heresy that would harm the sacret covenant with GOD. This explains Pauls persecution of the Jesus movement. What tends to be plaid down is the revelation or communication of the spirit that was highly spoken of in the early church. GOD communicated to them through the spirit. The spirit claimed the person of Jesus and the early churches didnt hinge the credibility of a teaching based on if Jesus said something about himself but based it on GOD revealing it to them about Jesus.
Since I am not a NT scholar I really don't know whether I can trust N T Wright's assessment here, especially when there are other scholars, most conspicuously Geza Vermes, who would disagree that Jesus saw himself as the personal embodiment of Israel's God. What does seems clear is that he saw himself as a Prophet and as the Messiah. Everything else is open to different interpretations.
bayreuth79 Why oh why do people/ christians think their pastors and schlors know more about WHO Jesus and God are than they themselves profess to be?? Why do they want to demean God's glory and rob Jesus of his birthright. We are to be joint hiers wih Jesus Christ. If he is God, then hiers to what??? God is the creator of everything. Ask yourself, why did Satan try to temp Jesus? do you really think Satan thourgt he was tempting God??? Who did the demons think Jesus was?? check out the book of acts, you who dont know. Surely they would have know if he was God dressed in human reigment. People wake up start using your common sense - dont be so easily foold by these smooth intellectual talkers. You can read and have the same Holy Writ, are you just seeing what theytell you to see??
halfie25 Oh really. I think it rather a cop-out! You are right "it" never works....so it (the truth) has to be danced around. Yelp - you got to be creative.
Actually, Jesus knew he was God, he didn't think it or believe it in the oft-vague way that Wright purports. Christ didn't think he was doing anything. He knew what he was and what he was doing. In every video Wright says, " I think, I think, I think". Well, Wright, the things you think, the Church already knows and has known for 2 millenia. Stop obfuscating.
rorshakks Oh...Oh John,poor talking in riddles John. Wow, you would rather have bitten you " schlorly" and intellectual tongue than have Jesus admit he was the begotten son of God. Did you not read the answe jesus gave Peter when Peter told him who he thought him to be - the SON of th highest! Jesus teplied that flesh and blood did not reveal his idenity but his Father in HEAVEN. Jesus is NOT God people . He prayed and talked with hisFather God in Heaven. Yes, Jesus had a Father and God just as he told Mary - he was goung to his God and her God and his Father and her Father!! Christ and Messiah means the "anointed one" God does not to be anointed! Jesus' resurration proved he was the long awaited Messiah, the one whom would ursher in God's coming Kingdom. Jesus will come in His Father's glory. Jesus came to reveal the Father. We are made in God's imagine not he other way round! John I know a man who will give you $10,000 if you can find ....God the Son in the KJB. It s not there folks!! Jesus is sitting at the father's right hand now....making intersession for us. Paul always addressed his letters" "blessed be the God AND fatherof our lord and savior. Jesus is the second Adam...not God in human flesh! God stated in the book of Numbers" I am not a man nor Son of man that I should Lie. A man brought sin upon mankind and it will take a man to undo - that man is Jesus Christ. We are not deity, thus do not require Deity to redeem us . God is immortal. What about that do so many not comprehend??!! Stop giving Jesus God's glory and throne! Jesus didnt have to think who he was....He Knew who he was people! He was not brain deficent, WHO DOES HE TELL YOU HE IS AND WHO DOES GOD TELL YOU HE IS? You dont need a PH.D to discover this informaion from the holy writ, and you certainly dont need this John who is so grounded in tradition and centuries - old creds to tell you. Can't you think for yourselves using commom sense??? It's not a mystery people - stop making it one----Please!!!
Jesus is the full embodiment of God in the flesh. This is what the church means and has always meant. He possesses within himself everything the Father possesses that make Him God. So, does the Holy Spirit. The each possess that substance wholly and are united IN THE WAY that when you see the Son you see the Father. When Jesus said this, he did not mean in a surface or hollow way. This is why Thomas, upon realizing who he was declared my Lord and my God. This is why the disciples upon the Mountain in Galilee WORSHIPPED HIM, though some.doubted. Some still doubt today, but he is who he is.
Unlike the prophets, who always began their discourse by saying, "Thus says the Lord," Jesus would begin by saying, "I say unto you." It seems he did not see himself as a prophet, but as THE Prophet, the one that was believed to be predicted by Moses (DT 18: 15 - 19). This is what is meant in the Synoptics that Jesus spoke with authority.
He was and is God!!
frank smith
did your bible tell you clearly he was God....or maybe he just suggested,or implied, or prhaps hinted. You think???
Can you tell me more about the divine incarnate one of the 5th stage?
@frnzkuester Amen! It is so clear and concise that he is.
Yes the pagans believe man becoming gods was the ultimate goal.
But with Christ it is God, the only unique God, humbling Himself and becoming an ordinary man. Nothing "super human", but a man and live a holy life acceptable to a holy God.
This is why the pagans saw Christianity as offensive to their pagan religions.
In paganism there is no real notion of a God which we commonly believe in today, their gods were more like spoiled children. Not really God.
The early churchs (Jerusalem Antioch) make a distinction between GOD and Jesus. Its GOD's doing, that he raised Jesus not Jesus raised himself. The earthly Jesus did not claim himself to be worshiped dispite the spiratual symbolic rhetoric of the gospels. But his Jewish followers very early on through perhaps a spiratual revelation believed to their hearts that GOD had raised their messiah to heavenly glory and now Jesus shared in substance the divine glory of GOD. This is post Easter. To them his followers GOD commands worship of Christ and its obedient to do so. This caused many Jews to fear a potential heresy that would harm the sacret covenant with GOD. This explains Pauls persecution of the Jesus movement. What tends to be plaid down is the revelation or communication of the spirit that was highly spoken of in the early church. GOD communicated to them through the spirit. The spirit claimed the person of Jesus and the early churches didnt hinge the credibility of a teaching based on if Jesus said something about himself but based it on GOD revealing it to them about Jesus.
Since I am not a NT scholar I really don't know whether I can trust N T Wright's assessment here, especially when there are other scholars, most conspicuously Geza Vermes, who would disagree that Jesus saw himself as the personal embodiment of Israel's God. What does seems clear is that he saw himself as a Prophet and as the Messiah. Everything else is open to different interpretations.
bayreuth79 Why oh why do people/ christians think their pastors and schlors know more about WHO Jesus and God are than they themselves profess to be?? Why do they want to demean God's glory and rob Jesus of his birthright. We are to be joint hiers wih Jesus Christ. If he is God, then hiers to what??? God is the creator of everything. Ask yourself, why did Satan try to temp Jesus?
do you really think Satan thourgt he was tempting God??? Who did the demons think Jesus was?? check out the book of acts, you who dont know. Surely they would have know if he was God dressed in human reigment. People wake up start using your common sense - dont be so easily foold by these smooth intellectual talkers. You can read and have the same Holy Writ, are you just seeing what theytell you to see??
I like how he did not say Jesus thought he was God. That never works. Embodying the Divine One is a good way to put it.
halfie25 Oh really. I think it rather a cop-out! You are right "it" never works....so it (the truth) has to be danced around. Yelp - you got to be creative.
benadam: well, Peter certainly sounded off in Matt. 16:16...but Jesus affirmed him.
@penkallli Actually Jesus refutes Paganism.
This man is not a man of God! He is a deceiver. Jesus knew exactly who he was and what was going to happen to him.
Actually, Jesus knew he was God, he didn't think it or believe it in the oft-vague way that Wright purports. Christ didn't think he was doing anything. He knew what he was and what he was doing. In every video Wright says, " I think, I think, I think". Well, Wright, the things you think, the Church already knows and has known for 2 millenia. Stop obfuscating.
rorshakks Oh...Oh John,poor talking in riddles John. Wow, you would rather have bitten you " schlorly" and intellectual tongue than have Jesus admit he was the begotten son of God. Did you not read the answe jesus gave Peter when Peter told him who he thought him to be - the SON of th highest! Jesus teplied that flesh and blood did not reveal his idenity but his Father in HEAVEN. Jesus is NOT God people . He prayed and talked with hisFather God in Heaven. Yes, Jesus had a Father and God just as he told Mary - he was goung to his God and her God and his Father and her Father!! Christ and Messiah means the "anointed one" God does not to be anointed! Jesus' resurration proved he was the long awaited Messiah, the one whom would ursher in God's coming Kingdom. Jesus will come in His Father's glory.
Jesus came to reveal the Father. We are made in God's imagine not he other way round! John I know a man who will give you $10,000 if you can find ....God the Son in the KJB. It s not there folks!! Jesus is sitting at the father's right hand now....making intersession for us. Paul always addressed his letters" "blessed be the God AND fatherof our lord and savior. Jesus is the second Adam...not God in human flesh! God stated in the book of Numbers" I am not a man nor Son of man that I should Lie. A man brought sin upon mankind and it will take a man to undo - that man is Jesus Christ. We are not deity, thus do not require Deity to redeem us . God is immortal. What about that do so many not comprehend??!! Stop giving Jesus God's glory and throne! Jesus didnt have to think who he was....He Knew who he was people! He was not brain deficent, WHO DOES HE TELL YOU HE IS AND WHO DOES GOD TELL YOU HE IS? You dont need a PH.D to discover this informaion from the holy writ, and you certainly dont need this John who is so grounded in tradition and centuries - old creds to tell you. Can't you think for yourselves using commom sense??? It's not a mystery people - stop making it one----Please!!!
Jesus is the full embodiment of God in the flesh. This is what the church means and has always meant. He possesses within himself everything the Father possesses that make Him God. So, does the Holy Spirit. The each possess that substance wholly and are united IN THE WAY that when you see the Son you see the Father. When Jesus said this, he did not mean in a surface or hollow way. This is why Thomas, upon realizing who he was declared my Lord and my God. This is why the disciples upon the Mountain in Galilee WORSHIPPED HIM, though some.doubted. Some still doubt today, but he is who he is.
1st century Palestine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????
Yes.