Definitely agree that they should play up more 'tricky' parts of the power, like the ricochet. He's the Trickster, after all. You need to be able to do some tricky shit with his base kit
I mean, the design goal is that addons amplify part of killer abilities, not that killer abilities are viable standalone. Killers gain enough BP to get the addons they need(especially on prestige 3). The only difficulty on killers is map specific builds. Besides, the knife spread is practically non existant if you tap knives rather than spamclick or hold down m1. Every knife hit resets the decaying timer. You only want to spam knives up close. And killer names arent always literal. Hillbilly isnt named chainsawer. Wraith isnt called cloaker(because the part where he is cloaked is actually the wraith-part of his name). Nurse isnt called teleporter, heck, nurse doesnt even heal you. Doctor doesnt operate on you either. Oni isnt exactly an Oni. Blight isnt the blight itself, he is a blighted human.
@@zman4727 I’d argue either way. If he was an actual Oni, he’d be in Jigoku torturing sinners. Two possibilities: 1. The Realms are actually Jigoku and also every other version of hell in myth, which is unlikely considering the few amount of people in there | 2. The Entity gave him Oni-like features, knowing it’d make him mad and drive him to kill more. In his default cosmetic, he isn’t even an Oni, he’s a muscular man with grey skin in an Oni mask
@@Predated2 I'd agree on the addon design goal if BHVR hasn't failed on that regard for a lot of their recent killers And frankly I think add-on dependency is a terrible part of the game, and makes killers like Ghostface and Trapper feel like junk to play without a specific type of addon, which severely limits their possibilities by making several of their other add-ons unviable. Wraith had this problem to a large degree, because a fair amount of his more entertaining add-on combos didn't involve windstorm (Silent Bell + Serpent for example), because at least one of his perk slots had to be Windstorm Add-ons being strong =/= Add-on dependency, the latter of which I think is bad for the game Even if the Trickster isn't completely literal, he should still give you a feeling of being the Trickster. At least *some* kind of gameplay-flavor connection. I love the killer's lore a bunch, but I don't feel like I'm embodying the Trickster when I get to play him. He's a killer that's all about giving a good show and bringing all the attention and flair, you don't really get to do that when your knife-throwing is incredibly straightforward with little way to style
they should have never called him the trickster, its just inviting criticism. first thing people think is "what tricks does he do". He doesnt do any tricks. they should have called him "the showman" or something
You can tell that they put a lot of effort into this killer, he has voice lines, he laughs creepily, his m1 cooldown is the coolest of any killer by far and he even winks at you in the lobby. Just a shame that his power, despite being a cool concept feels SO underwhelming.
I like nearly everything about this chapter: - Wraith (cloaked) is now faster - They fixed Blight POV - DS nerf - This killer looks actually amazing, but also the sounds he makes (like the laugh, talk or even the wink he gives you on the menu) are awesome. Also he has the best killer icon in the select menu imo - The survivor looks pretty good as well - In general the killer animations are really nice (reload animation for example) - Perks on both sites are not that great, but might be useful here and there. This is way more than I expected. What I don't like: - His power is really not that good. Also with this mentioned there is no way he should be 4.4 m/s with such a weak ability.
as well as the many many bugs in the ptb, but that’s par for the course, and both the killer and survivor have some janky animations (throwing down with the killer, turning side to side while crouched as the survivor), but I can agree, their backstory is probably one of my favorites, especially with how intertwined they are, and how the survivor isn’t exactly a very good person at all.
@@FastPacedSound I also really like that the killers lore is kinda meta "People will watch him, run from him, experience him" reads like a 4th wall breaking of the 3 roles (spectator, survivor, killer)
The personality and appearance are honestly the best things about him. He stands out so much from the rest of the roster. The fact that he turns to the player and winks at them in the lobby has so much personality. His laughs during the trial are also filled to the brim with malice which is great. The main issue is the power isn't very strong. Even still it is super fun to chuck knives like a madman.
His personality, yes. But appearance? Absolutely not. He literally is some korean guy with a coat and clown pants with some blood splattered on him. His looks are bland and uninspired.
@@LieutenantSkittles Yes, because clown is stalker degenerate psychopath that looks threatening... This guy is just a singer with blood trying to be a killer...
@@LieutenantSkittles Yes, he is a clown, but even the clown has more depth to his visual representation than just being the clown. He has a make up for a happy face, even though his expression is really an opposite of happiness. He wear a keyring for fingers of victims he killed on his belt, that tells something about him. Trickster doesn't have any of that depth in his looks, he's just a k-pop guy.
What about instead of the knives auto healing, give him some sort of unique mending mechanic where survivors can spend x ammount of time removing knifes individually. (Of course the X time is debatable as to what it should be) This would at least buy him some extra time as the knifes you'd use on survivors that never actually took a health state wouldn't be completely wasted.
That’s actually a really neat idea, and would also be opportunity for fun animations too. They do seem to be having a blast with animations for this chapter after all.
May I add, while doing that, have the survivors perform a difficult skill check for each knives. If they missed one skill, then once they are done removing the knives, they would enter an injured state. Since it is recommended to not remove foreign objects in your body like that or you would bleed out more.
@@ricky18redblack31 I don't really like the idea of going into the injured state if you miss one (not like skill checks actually require skill, but that would be a little weird), instead I believe they should make it so if you miss a skill check it gives an audible and visual notification to the killer while also stopping the progress as if you failed a healing skill check. Maybe even make it so if you miss one of the skill checks the time it takes to remove the other knives is increased, so if you miss like 5 it would take a long time or something like that.
I think this could be cool if you could remove the knives incremetally, meaning you don't have to wait for a full bar to fill up to get their effect to go away at once.
@@robertoneto3897 Well... that's the point. Skill checks are easy, so by messing up, you deserve to get into an injured state. Plus healing for a long time might be a bother and boring. But that's just me.
I feel the ricochet should be part of his base kit(without the extra damage to the new meter of course), it would add more to his "Trickster" identity and also give him a slightly better effective range and mindgame in loops
Nice idea, and for the addon let his knifes ricochet up to 5 times against surfaces, without the knife damage increasing, also change it to green or something
@@doublelizard767 he means all knives ricochet but add ons let you add an extra bounce or two even which sounds busted honestly in any somewhat indoor area.
@@dustinsaunders314 Yeah this is what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. Also yeah it might be busted on the indoor maps just thought it would be funny to see haha
His Main Event state shouldn't actively decrease his stock of knives if it's supposed to be a state where you have infinite ammo. If I still have to reload after then it's punishing me for using it in the way I should be: constantly holding down the throw button for 15~seconds
I feel like his ricochet add-on should be more of a “smart” ricochet where it at least goes in the general direction of a survivor and has a better chance of actually hitting someone. A lot of the hit boxes in dbd weren’t made for this kind of gameplay and it really shows on maps like McMillan estate or literally any map that has rounded debris
i almost feel like they should just envelope all terrain in a little cube that only the ricochet interacts with, less throwing over loops but better ricochet.
I think that if lacerations are permanent, you should be able to "mend them" similar to deep wounds. This would decrease the meter as you heal, so instead of an all-or-nothing heal, if you can't heal all the way you still heal some of the lacerations. I think that would add a little stall potential.
I really like this idea, slowly pulling the knives out but I think it should start out extremely slow, and each knife pulled out would increase the speed. This would prevent it being used in chases like how you’re able to do with mend if you just sit on one side of a pallet.
@@KaiWills Well the idea is that it works like conventional healing, so to do it yourself you would have to use up your medkit or do it really slowly with self care.
It feels like this killer was originally designed to in someway use the mending mechanic, I don’t want more mending mechanics in the game, but it seems he needs some thing to replace that hole
I feel like a better way to work the knives, is to have the knives stay in, but give survivors a recovery ability about the same speed as trying to open a trapper trap you step in, and each time you complete it, you remove a knife. this way survivor's are rewarded for escaping chases without causing good loopers to lose knives and punish the killer for a lower movement speed.
I was comparing him to Plague after the first match and people called me crazy! I am happy that someone as experienced as you do agree with me on that!
Yeah, I mean, from what I've seen from multiple streamers the tiles with low walls seems to be his strength but he's quite weak everywhere else. That's not to say he isn't fun because they all (for the most part) enjoy how fun his power seems, but beyond the fun factor they definitely need to up the "tricks" in "trickster".
On the bright side, I can finally play blight again without just being drained by the slip and slides all over the map. Might be my favorite killer again if they did it right.
I did some labbing on shelter woods, which I personally had the most issues with, and HOLY SHIT he's so much better now. You can actually hit the stumps, you can use his power on shack (MacMillan shack had a weird hump that would push you away from the door) and you can even hit the big tree in the middle at most angles. I'm sure he's just as good on other maps now AND he's like a foot or two taller than survivors now! It's SOO GOOOD.
This should be expected on the PTB, no reason for people to play survivor except to see what it’s like against the new killer or for people who literally never play killer
Also, shouldn't he have 100% precision with his knives when he enters Main Event? That would make his special move/final form/ultimate jutsu a lot more fearsome.
It seems like they developed him in mind for anti bullying play. His perks, add ons, all shine when multiple survivors are crowding you. I believe they need to increase his movement speed, or rework lacerate to make him more effective. They need to decide whether to keep him slow with more lethality, or speed him up a bit to close off chases
@@Phantom-kc9ly I dont know how you read my comment and your take away was me talking about his power and viability as a killer, and not his movement quirk
IMO, The advantages that he has over the other killers is both his heigh and his Terror Radius. With a Monitor and abuse you can sneak up on survivors better than Huntress because of her Lullaby and you can possibly mindgame gyms (specially if he has some dark recolors) a little better because he's not as tall as a Deathslinger or a Plague. You can also use his M2 to build up STBFL for some builds. Overall I think he'll be pretty average as a killer but pretty fun to play with.
he has the same base terror radius as hag, hag is even smaller than hi with some cosmetics that are near completely brown/black if you want stealth, the only thing TECHNICALLY you pointed out is saving STBFL stacks BUT to counter that hag has her whole teleport ability for mobility, mind games, instant damage, etc. so for your "reasons for playing him" just play hag instead
@@steeldragon5730 Not really... I find Hag pretty boring to play... e.e Put corrupted intervention > Place a trap web > Guard gen positions. Trapper has the same idea but his playstyle is way more fun to me. Also, Hag's camera is annoying. C:
I think you bring up some good points here. Specifically, one point you mentioned on stream earlier was why play Trickster when you can just play Huntress instead. It seems to me that both Huntress and Trickster were made to perform well in chases, the only difference being that Huntress does Trickster’s job more effectively. The only thing I can see Trickster having that’s better than Huntress is tracking with his lower terror radius, but some people would say that Huntress’s omnidirectional humming helps more than a lower terror radius. Also, finding survivors becomes second nature when you get a good amount of hours in the game. Thanks for the analysis and for the fun stream!
Why play any other killer when you have Nurse, Spirit, Freddy? Maybe it's not always about killer's strength but about their aesthetics and gameplay mechanics..?
@@IHasIdea ... but the Tricksters mechanics are very similar to Huntress, Plague and Deathslinger? Thats the whole point, he basically does what those killers already do just in weaker. If we compare him to Caleb, the only difference they have is, that Calebs shots are a lot more lethal than his and that he has no reeling part. Im not denying that the MG aspect of his power is very fun to use, but it alone isn’t enough to differentiate him from the others enough to really change the feeling you have when playing him VS the feeling you have when playing one of the others. At least thats how i felt when playing him.
@@MrxD-cg5xs I don't see Huntress throwing 60 hatchets in high speed, or Slinger shooting 60 times like from a machinegun. I don't see their shots ricocheting with an addon. What we do have are the cool animations and aesthetic of the new killer, plus the fact that he's the next killer who speaks besides Plague speaking ancient Babylonian. Are their powers and playstyle similar mechanically speaking? Yes. Is this better and more inspired than the proxy camp fest that was last killer? Absolutely.
Another recommendation, people get the incapacitated effect + broken effect for five seconds when being hit by a knife. No healing mid chase to remove usefulness from knives completely, and could make a unique spam power to stop multiple people on generators from persisting even though you're there.
I think the reason a lot of people like playing him or want to play him is because he just looks fun and feels cool to play, if you take out the competitive side of things, that’s the reason why people play their killers
Exactly, people get bored of the same Nurse/Spirit/Freddy gameplay that is competitively the best but just not fun in the long run. Especially with MMR as casual as it is.
@@IHasIdea Killer side of the game is single player so I feel like 'winning no matter what' is the only source of 'fun' for some people. When I was playing with friends back then we were intentionally fucking each other over just for laughs and the game was still fun. As soloQ survivor I still dont take it too seriously and happily die for others in EGC or throw myself inbetween when someone would be on death hook. but the amount of salt that gets thrown around (survivors dying or killer not getting that kill they wanted) is unreal~
He’s a really good hook camper. If he’s pelting knives into a surv trying to unhook someone else it’ll cancel the unhook animation once they’re injured and, since there’s no cooldown when rapidly throwing knives, he can just obliterate the injured surv until they’re downed. But you gamers wouldn’t camp hooks, I trust all of you 🔫
@@Insanity-vv9nn he has the potential to be really good, but as of now his hook camping is far superior. Dare I say, he overshadows Bubba’s hook camping
Love the comparison to plague. Didn't think about it, but it's very true. Either make it so getting hit by enough knives downs instantly, or make it so they don't deteriorate.
Bad, but really fun is the general opinion everyone seems to have. I can live with that. Better to have a fun killer that can be buffed or tweaked later than a boring one that's strong.
Random idea I had for a potential addon/rework: never run out of knives, start out with a slightly higher laceration damage, but every 10 or so consecutive throws without restocking at a locker, you deal less. Still incentivizes you to reload, gives him potential higher damage output, but punishes just mindlessly spamming them (while still allowing it), similarly to limited ammo.
What about giving some effects depending on the amount of knifes you have on the body. For example, 1 knife: Leaves a small trail of blood on ground, 4 knifes: Survivor starts to grunt from pain, 6 knifes: Sprinting velocity reduction, 7 knifes: Actions such as repairing motors, searching in chests, opening the gates take longer. It's just an idea
few suggestions for the trickster: (Note: not saying to add all these but maybe implement like 1 or 2 of them and he will be solid also, for #2, numbers can defiantly be adjusted. I just picked numbers that seem ok but unforgiving for survivor) 1) give a generously longer window to proc main event 2) give more of an incentive to use throwing knives over just hitting them. Maybe if you want to keep it to 8 knives/health state then make the knives have temporary de-buffs with the more you land. Ex, While full health: 3 hits = 15 sec exhausted, 6 hits = hindered(3%) 30 sec or until injured, While injured: 3 hits = 30 sec hemorrhage, 6 hits = 60 sec broken or mangled 3) Maybe give him a sweeping fan attack where he throws like 5 blades in a horizontal line for move set diversity 4) Make the ricochet knives part of base kit
I think you addressed some fair points. But there are also some advantages compared to the Plague: - you can "hit" injured people - much higher projectile speed - smaller terror radius - no charging necessary - faster when holding knives (?) - main event is a free boost, which survivors can't deny (- survivors can't cleanse to heal, which is fast and no teammate is needed Just to recap the main disadvantages: - partly damaged effect goes away by time instead of increasing on its own - survivors can heal instead of being broken - requires reloading in lockers - 5% less base movement speed
Laceration bar should only deplete after a survivor is healed a health state or hooked, but for each laceration bar there is a decrease to healing speed.
I’d say that while pile plague spews bile which needs multiple charges for her to even damage the survivor, Trickster can damage a survivor EXTREMELY quickly at medium range. 16 knives can be thrown in less than 15 seconds. I’d say plague is great at overall pressuring survivors from a distance with her sickness and the fact that it can transfer or power up. However Trickster isn’t really one that pressures multiple survivors, more like he can add tension within a chase at almost any range. You aren’t safe just because you’ve gained distance at all unlike many other killers. Not extreme distances like DS or Huntress can but because they make it extremely forgiving when you have bad aim it can melt pretty quickly.
If you think a killer that needs to hit the survivor 8 times Just to injure them is good you dont even play against survivors that knows How to counter huntress. Its the same as saying "wraith is underrated". No, he sucks and only shines against bad survivors or survivors that are not trying to win
@@Insanity-vv9nn you can watch gameplay of survivors against him, usually you can’t dodge them all you have to stay out of sight because at medium range it’s not difficult hit all your shots, long range sure, medium though, he’s pretty good. I’ve actually played Huntress quite a bit, she excels at range however when she misses its not as forgiving as the Trickster. You can spam throws and get a lot of good hits in when they vault or even throw a pallet. He’s not going to be bad, he’ll be a character that’s easy to use and not too strong either. Like probably B tier or lower simply because he can win chases pretty consistently.
@@Insanity-vv9nn also don’t be an ass like “then you don’t know what it’s like against so and so” like cmon dude we all play the game what’s the need for questioning someone’s experience. I’m looking at this from a survivor and killer’s perspective, he’ll do just fine in chases however when it comes to map pressure, map coverage, or anything else that’s important to have, he has none.
Funnily enough when I was watching otz and ohtofu vids they kept comparing him to huntress, and my thoughts the whole time were "why would I ever play him over plague?"
Well I have to give credit for these 2 things. 1:The locker reload animation. 2: The look of the throwing knife precise hitboxes and show how hitboxes should be.
I think the laceration not going away would just be a nice quality of life change and would make the knives actually viable on certain tiles rather than just forcing m1s. The ricochet idea being base kit would be cool but I think itd be fine even if they didnt do that. What id really want is main event to not instantly go away once you get it since you might have gotten it in a situation where they break los behind a wall and then youre just not able to get any value out of it. Rn if you want value out of it you have to play in a way where you pocket it similarly to a myers tier 3 and then start it after throwing a single knife but that also means you dont get your power when saving it. Overall I like the idea it could just use some minor stuff to make the knives feel like theyre worthy of not playing huntress or plague instead. Tl;dr hes interesting in concept but could use some minor changes to feel much more fun and viable imo
1 simple fix I've come up with When you tag a survivor with enough blades to where you get the sound cue when they are about to be injured that survivor should also be inflicted with Exposed. So the killer has a extra option, to close the distance with a insta down M1, or do they take the easy ranged injure. On top of the changes you recommend I think that would warrent him being a 110% killer.
Okay here are my ideas: each knife that hits the survivor (stacks up to 7) will decrease movement speed and action speed by 1%, maybe an add on to increase the percentage? but there should also be a feature like mending, so you pull out each knife according to how many you have in you. This means the laceration won't just disappear but you manually have to take the knives out. Also ricochet should be base kit not sure why they didn't do that. Edit: when I say stacks up to 7, I mean on the eighth knife the survivor loses a health state and the movement speed/ action speed penalty resets to 0 and then it repeats.. Maybe I'm going over here but I feel like a trickster who's small, thin and agile should be able to run at 115%.
I wouldn't really compare him to Plague. The fact that she can't down unless she has corrupt purge while Trickster can is a huge deal. Also I'd say he's better than Plague. He can whittle away health states from a distance (and not lose distance like Plague would, and hit much more consistently) and then when survivors actually lock into an action you're going to get off, like, 4 knives, which is half of a health state. So not only can he damage you while you're running between loops but actually looping and taking actions will damage you too. But I absolutely agree that the decay is a huge problem, and also I think his Main Event prompt at the very least should stay for, like, 10 seconds longer so that he isn't in situations where he's wasting Main Event 90% of the time. Even giving him unlimited time to activate it I don't think would be overpowered, but idk.
Laceration shouldn't decay and survivors should be able to "mend" their laceration, with each knife increasing the "mend" timer. It would give him much needed stall potential, and make getting hit by his power more threatening. Also, I disagree with giving him infinite ammo but increasing it from 60 to 100 or something would let him commit to more chases before having to reload.
Would it be cool if we had add ons that changes the knives damage? For example: 1) He could have knives with freezing affects, which could significantly slows down a surv and when using Showstopper he could possibly (like probs 2%) have the chance to completely immobilise a them 2) He could also have knives that could be lit up in flames which causes serious burns, scratch marks are more vivid and last longer. When using Showstopper it also has the chance (just gonna go with 2%) to explode on impact immediately reducing them to the dying state (mmm not sure about this one) 3) He could have poisoned knives that could speed up infliction towards the injured state, meaning you use less knives. When in the injured state survivors occasionally scream from lethal poisoning alerting The Trickster. When using Showstopper on a survivor her aura disappears, even when survivor is hooked (only hook would appear not survs aura) (yeah I really don’t know about this one....) These are my muddled up ideas 😅they all sound straight up stupid 🤣🤣
Totally agree with the ricochet idea. The ricochet seems to be the most fun mechanic, and it seems like it should be a part of him already. As for the ricochet add-on, either make it ricochet more, or give it the 200% laceration effect
im really glad at the least that their addon design has gone farther than 'hitting with power make survivor mangled/blind/hindered' etc., his addons are actually really fun and interesting (although the red one that exposes people instead of injuring really makes the plague comparison even more noticeable)
Maybe they should make some extra hit boxes for things, like an octagonal prism thing for trees, but these are only used by the Trickster’s Knives or the Blight’s Rush or something. Just so that the bouncing is more predictable
Maybe the knives could expand and start spinning as a dual edge blade in a wider width once they ricochet? That way it could be justified to increase the size of the ricochet hitboxes without it feeling like Huntress flying truck hatchets do.
Playing up the ricochet part of his kit is definitely needed, and making knives not expire also makes sense. I think they should force survivors to pull out the daggers but maybe make some consequence for it like plague and her power.
I feel ricochet basekit with the addon giving an extra ricochet would be cool. They could make it that the laceration only starts to fade when not moving. That would atleast stop it from going down in chase
1. Speed him up. He can only throw against short objects and windows. 2. Make it to where survivors can't auto-heal knife wounds. 3. Main Event should last far longer, charge faster and replenish a 1/4 of your knives so you don't end off with nothing.
I think the idea behind this killer is to get value when survivors use resources, 3 knifes when dropping pallet, 2 on windows, probably they nerfed the amount needed to injure/down and increased the amount of knives when they realized that it would be op on open areas and at close range
We've heard your concerns. Plague now gives a speed boost when infecting survivors just like when taking damage normally. Infection will also decay over time. Removed fountains from game.
Plague also has environmental interactions like puking on gens, pallets and windows to get her infection, she has passive tracking because peopel loudly vomit and emit green smoke, she benefits from survivor interaction with healing after an unhook or makes healing in general impossible, her vomit has an arc meaning you don't even need line of sight if you're predicting a survivors position correctly and as you said corrupt bile in general is leagues above main event from kpop joker. As someone who loves Plague to death I wasn't bothered by his gameplay as much as other people but it just feels like old Legion all over again as in "I will just spam knife your way and it might take a century but you will go down!"
Just to clarify, if you don't hold M1 and tap it instead your knives are accurate, it's only when you hold M1 are they inaccurate (touching on the point around 1:20) but I'm quite happy with the rest that you said 🤷♀️
I think there are 2 adjustments that could give him better potential. *First,* allow him to stack his M1 with his laceration hits - not reset them if he does M1. This would open him up to different strategies and combinations revolving around his M1 and laceration. (Example, you could go for 4 lacerations, get the M1, then only need 3 more lacerations to down). To counter adjust this change (if it is 'too strong') is to just increase the amount of lacerations he needs to get to injure or down. *Second,* the laceration counter should not deplete AT ALL. A way of looking at it is - if lacerations deplete over time, then he should get his knives back without reloading (sounds dumb I know). No other killer can 'injure' a survivor, just for there injury to fade over time - it's a dumb downside to his power *BONUS Third,* make him a 115% or the very least a 112.5% speed killer, that way he isn't being compared to Huntress or Deathslinger - which have far superior ranged powers.
Maybe they should add hinder or whatever the movement speed reduction stat is, going higher for each stack of laceration (if thats how the speed reduction can work) just to give some bit of a reason to play him over another killer.
I liked the base ricochet idea, but me personally didn't mind the laceration going down as fast as it does, it allows for new types of gameplay. (We already have a ghostface, right?) These are my two suggested changes: 1 - Make him a standard 115% movement speed/32m terror radius, with a speed boost like legion speed when on "Main Event". Also, "Main Event" once charged should be available to use at will. or 2 - Keep him without any major changes, but tweak around with his values, I think reducing his base knife count to 40 and increasing to around 10 hits to fill the laceration meter, but once full, it's insta-down.
I would increase the time before lacerations drop off by default, something like after 15 seconds of escaping chase, and they drop off 1 per 10s. Then have an add on that reduces knives required to reduce a health state to 6, and an add on that stops lacerations from dropping off if the survivor is engaging with anything, gens, hooks, healing, chests or getting in a locker.
Listen here, Scott of the Jund! Dead by Daylight is a HORROR Survival game. It's about FEAR and being SCARED of the MIGHTY KILLER! It's about crouching in bushes and quivering as the Killer walks past you (at a movement speed faster than a human running - DON'T QUESTION THE SCIENCE! It's POWER WALKING!). This game is NOT about "fUn cHaSes" or some weird chess game with gens and exit gates and strategies - no, no, no, this is a SCARY game where you are SCARED to-- Ok, I can't go on with this. It started as a fun sarcastic thing and just became too long and weird and I just feel like I was looking for a punchline that never came. Love your discussion and thoughtful videos, Scott. Keep up the good work!
Ricochet + Death Throes will probably be one of the most OP things in the game, and will be fairly common to see. Ricochets aren't that hard to hit if you just aim for people's feet, and with Death Throes, you will down people in 2 knives if you're close enough. Other than that, this killer will probably just be "alright" if you get really good with him.
One of his perks is outclassed by bamboozle. Let that sink in. The only perk he has that might be useful is the one that blocks the switches for the exit gates since I'm pretty sure that can stack with Remember Me; it's really just an end game perk and his power is so situational, it has less versatility than the even the PLAGG does.
I feel like none of this chapters stuff relate like why does this basically just a k pop star coverd in blood have knives to throw and what did the teasee have to do with him at all?
The survivor, Yun-Jin, was Ji-Woon Hak's talent manager and the one who brought him to a state of fame from a former life of relative poverty; she was also the only survivor to the cumulating event that lead to him being contacted by the entity. That's if you're referring to the new survivor as the "Teasee", and thus why her perks are named after stereotypical showbusiness rat race stuff. The reason he throws knives is because that is the trick he did for his dad as a tourist attraction; it was his act before Yun-Jin found him and brought him into the world of K-Pop boy bands.
I personally like the simplicity with The Trickster. Theres nothing too fancy with him, no swapping, no bouncing off walls, just throw a few knives at people and that's it.
@@YagamiTrala yeah, that's why I prefer more simple killers to play, instead of ones with weird gimmicks, like Twins and such. For example, I'm a Deathslinger main. I shoot survivors with gun, I bring them closer, boom. Rinse and repeat.
1: don't limit base knifes 2: don't make knives decay in chase. Stealthing or being across the map for a long time, or mending should remove them though IMO, because why not. Maybe pull a Madness where the first 2-3 knives don't decay until hook or something. I'd even settle for this being an addon. 3: make ricochet base, but limit ricochet to a smaller number (enough to do 1 health state, maybe more/less depending on addons), possibly make more reliable or more damaging 4: add a moon shot mechanic, where it has like, float time of like, more than a second and requires more accuracy (since it falls more vertically, instead of horizontally), but hits are worth 2-3 knife hits. Maybe it replaces the ricochet as an addon, like dream snares vs fake pallets. (ricochet/moon shot can be like, a charged shot, if you aim above 45 degrees, it's a moon shot instead) there. A whole bunch of options/changes that would be real dope.
Honestly, he's the best non-one hit down killer, tied with plague, if there's nothing/only weak windows for the survivors. In loops tho he's like huntress, but without the need to kick most pallets with no LoS since he's overall faster than her in hitting. So you can just run around around it slowly downing them. I see potential here.
OK, this is what I would do to him if it was up to me, based on what I and I alone find fun (this is HEAVILY biased with my own preferred playstyle, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt): -Movement speed increased from 4.4m/s to 4.6m/s (110% -> 115%) -Knives ricochet off surfaces a single time. Rework the ricochet addon to increase the number of ricochets to 3 as well as giving the increased laceration -Laceration no longer decays or goes away after going into the injured state -Firing speed reduced from ~3 knives per second to ~2 knives per second -Number of knives needed to inflict a health state increased from 8 to 10 -Max amount of carriable knives increased from 60 to 90 -Reload speed decreased from ~4 seconds to ~3 seconds -Knife holster speed reduced to 0.1 seconds -Movement speed while holding up a knife increased to 4.0m/s (100%) This would effectively create a killer that is really good at slowly whittling away at the survivor's health while in a chase. This would most likely be weaker than current Trickster, but it's just how I wish I could play the character.
A few counter points to some things you said: With the whole plague-but-worse anaology, a crucial difference is that the plague can only down survivors with her puke if she went to a corrupt fountain, and at high level a lot of people tend to not cleanse against the plague cause then she becomes an m1 killer, whereas trickster can down with his power all the time without that sort of limitation. As for the blade meter going down over time, I think its necessary to a degree because otherwise people will 99% survivors and at that point its basically just worse ghostface and I dont think anyone wants that. However, I agree that he does seem too weak, so I have 2 ideas for this issue: 1) After you are outside of terror radius for something like 15-20 seconds, it starts going down slowly, that way if you do lose him in a chase/he gives up chasing you its not like he can just run up and throw 1 knife to injure. 2) The meter never goes down on its own, but survivors can make the meter go down by removing the blades from themselves in an animation sorta like mending. I think for this idea it shouldnt be an "all or nothing" like how the mending bar works, but rather that the bar takes longer to fill the more blades a survivor has inside them.
Also I think either improving the accuracy a bit or increasing the travel speed of the blades would help this killer a lot. And maybe having the blades in main event do slightly more damage so they down a bit faster would be a nice quality of life change as well.
Both your idea of ricochet being the base kit and the knife decay are two things I thought of immediately after watching gameplay/playing him. Both would add enough to make him a good killer and not broken/average. Hopefully BVHR listens.
If the devs wanted to allow people to remove knives you could have the survivors gain a command to remove them at like 4-5 seconds a knife to remove, This way you allow the survivors the option at the cost of time. This also means you wouldn't be able to remove them mid chase since you would be standing still to remove them. I do like the idea of basekit havng the bouncing knives to keep his identity clearly different then the other killers.
Literally everything you said I wanted. Make the ricochets base kit minus bonus laceration, make laceration not decay, unless healing a health state. Also give him an addon to apply mangled. I think the edge (hehe) the knives gets over plauges vile purge is that once they injured with plauge you're just an m1 killer, where as with the trickster you can down with the knives and almost just wear the survivor down
Maybe a good buff for him is that you have the option to remove the daggers and each one takes a couple seconds to remove. The punishment for not removing them could be slowed healing speed/action speed. Might be op but it's all I could come up with for a buff other than what you mentioned
Wanna make him a trickster? Let him insta-switch between types of effects on his throws, (like reworked Clown but quicker,) like ricochet, splash damage, slow one shot at a time but double damage shots, etc... Let him do a bunch of different tricks and trick shots, so the survivors aren’t always exactly sure what they’re going against.
I think he has a place for newer players that want to be able to just kinda spam knives at people. Plague is a little more intimidating to pick up since you have to commit to charging her power and then purging for however long you charge, whereas trickster is just throwing knives for however long you want. Don't forget that he is labeled as an "easy" killer, which likely means he's meant to have a lower "underpowered" power ceiling, but also a lower skill floor - a kind of "training wheels" killer which I think DBD is lacking in. DBD killers, even "easy" ones, typically either have very limited resources/powers that punish the absolute hell out of you for missing (huntress, deathslinger, nurse, legion), or powers that require committing and charging (bubba, plague, doctor, etc.). We don't have a killer that can afford to spam a little without being punished as much.
I don't agree. There isn't really a need for a starter killer, there are plenty of killers that are easier to play for beginners (wraith, Myers, hillbilly, clown), plus ranking helps out with that a little, though, it's broken. If matchmaking actually worked, it would be perfect. There's no point in only having a killer just for beginners and then once you're good at the game you don't play him again cause he's not good for more experienced. DBD isn't that type of game. If ranking and matchmaking was fixed, then beginners could play any killer they wanted
@@ghostlyexe "If matching making worked, then xyz" isn't really an argument since it doesn't. But I think that's going down the wrong avenue for this discussion. Trickster is basically an easier version of plague/huntress/deathslinger, and I think there's definitely a desire for a killer like that. Huntress and deathslinger in particular are not newbie friendly. DBD has no aiming reticle and you get 1-6 shots, which have a significant wind up and travel time, and take a long time to reload. Trickster is the assault rifle compared to the sniper rifle of other ranged killers. You may miss, but misses aren't as big of a deal. Each hit isn't very powerful, but it's fine because you don't have to commit much to your attacks. And that's very nice for new killers and something DBD doesn't currently have on offer.
Counterpoint to him being weak:
He twirls his baseball bat on an M1 Hit.
With STBFL, he's a helicopter lol
Bat go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Majima's Slugger Style
Completely valid
To add to this:
He fixes his hair after a pallet stun, AND winks at you during custom game loading screens
*Behavior sees this video*
"Oh shit good points here Scott, we got you boy"
*Nerfs Plague*
THEY WOULD 😭😭😭😭
the way that sounds like something that they would exactly do
Behaviour: that’s it. We’re nerfing the pig again.
Lmao
Man its depressing how far into their colons the developers have inserted their heads.
Definitely agree that they should play up more 'tricky' parts of the power, like the ricochet. He's the Trickster, after all. You need to be able to do some tricky shit with his base kit
I mean, the design goal is that addons amplify part of killer abilities, not that killer abilities are viable standalone. Killers gain enough BP to get the addons they need(especially on prestige 3). The only difficulty on killers is map specific builds.
Besides, the knife spread is practically non existant if you tap knives rather than spamclick or hold down m1. Every knife hit resets the decaying timer. You only want to spam knives up close.
And killer names arent always literal. Hillbilly isnt named chainsawer. Wraith isnt called cloaker(because the part where he is cloaked is actually the wraith-part of his name). Nurse isnt called teleporter, heck, nurse doesnt even heal you. Doctor doesnt operate on you either. Oni isnt exactly an Oni. Blight isnt the blight itself, he is a blighted human.
@@Predated2 Oni is an actual oni though. Also, now I wonder what a Cloaker from Payday would be like in DbD
@@Predated2 i agree on the other parts except the last two since those are kinda what the name is.
@@zman4727 I’d argue either way. If he was an actual Oni, he’d be in Jigoku torturing sinners. Two possibilities: 1. The Realms are actually Jigoku and also every other version of hell in myth, which is unlikely considering the few amount of people in there | 2. The Entity gave him Oni-like features, knowing it’d make him mad and drive him to kill more. In his default cosmetic, he isn’t even an Oni, he’s a muscular man with grey skin in an Oni mask
@@Predated2 I'd agree on the addon design goal if BHVR hasn't failed on that regard for a lot of their recent killers
And frankly I think add-on dependency is a terrible part of the game, and makes killers like Ghostface and Trapper feel like junk to play without a specific type of addon, which severely limits their possibilities by making several of their other add-ons unviable. Wraith had this problem to a large degree, because a fair amount of his more entertaining add-on combos didn't involve windstorm (Silent Bell + Serpent for example), because at least one of his perk slots had to be Windstorm
Add-ons being strong =/= Add-on dependency, the latter of which I think is bad for the game
Even if the Trickster isn't completely literal, he should still give you a feeling of being the Trickster. At least *some* kind of gameplay-flavor connection. I love the killer's lore a bunch, but I don't feel like I'm embodying the Trickster when I get to play him. He's a killer that's all about giving a good show and bringing all the attention and flair, you don't really get to do that when your knife-throwing is incredibly straightforward with little way to style
they should have never called him the trickster, its just inviting criticism. first thing people think is "what tricks does he do". He doesnt do any tricks. they should have called him "the showman" or something
The Star?
He does knife tricks.
Tbf the nurse doesnt do anything revolving around being a nurse besides the aesthetic
@@pinkstarmona1695 that's a stupid comparison though, nurse is *literally* a nurse. The only "trickster" quality about this guy is he throws knives.
@@pinkstarmona1695 well, yeah, but I think the spooky theme of a ghost nurse is in favor of her, that is one thing. This guy is just covered in blood.
You can tell that they put a lot of effort into this killer, he has voice lines, he laughs creepily, his m1 cooldown is the coolest of any killer by far and he even winks at you in the lobby. Just a shame that his power, despite being a cool concept feels SO underwhelming.
Ok well its obviously up for debate but I feel like most people would agree that the Trickster has the best one, at least rn
Hey Scott, I just wanted to say that you make great content and are probably my favorite DBD RUclipsr, so keep making good content, and have fun!
thanks man
:) nice
Yeah between Otz Tru3 and Scott I find myself agreeing with Scotts opinions the most. He should definitely be in the development meetings.
Scott alt account spotted
@@ReavenM1911A1 Buddy... We're all Scott.
I like nearly everything about this chapter:
- Wraith (cloaked) is now faster
- They fixed Blight POV
- DS nerf
- This killer looks actually amazing, but also the sounds he makes (like the laugh, talk or even the wink he gives you on the menu) are awesome. Also he has the best killer icon in the select menu imo
- The survivor looks pretty good as well
- In general the killer animations are really nice (reload animation for example)
- Perks on both sites are not that great, but might be useful here and there. This is way more than I expected.
What I don't like:
- His power is really not that good. Also with this mentioned there is no way he should be 4.4 m/s with such a weak ability.
as well as the many many bugs in the ptb, but that’s par for the course, and both the killer and survivor have some janky animations (throwing down with the killer, turning side to side while crouched as the survivor), but I can agree, their backstory is probably one of my favorites, especially with how intertwined they are, and how the survivor isn’t exactly a very good person at all.
@@FastPacedSound I also really like that the killers lore is kinda meta "People will watch him, run from him, experience him" reads like a 4th wall breaking of the 3 roles (spectator, survivor, killer)
The animation of trickster I think a bit goofy like walking animation especially when throwing knives (in survivor perspective)
Really like the concept of the killer but I do agree I think he is weak.
He reminds me of an Anime character and I love it.
The personality and appearance are honestly the best things about him. He stands out so much from the rest of the roster. The fact that he turns to the player and winks at them in the lobby has so much personality. His laughs during the trial are also filled to the brim with malice which is great. The main issue is the power isn't very strong. Even still it is super fun to chuck knives like a madman.
He is the killer with the most personality, no doubt.
His personality, yes. But appearance? Absolutely not. He literally is some korean guy with a coat and clown pants with some blood splattered on him. His looks are bland and uninspired.
@@ghastly8192 The Clown is literally just a fat guy with a suit and makeup. Pretty generic and yet people still love him.
@@LieutenantSkittles Yes, because clown is stalker degenerate psychopath that looks threatening... This guy is just a singer with blood trying to be a killer...
@@LieutenantSkittles
Yes, he is a clown, but even the clown has more depth to his visual representation than just being the clown. He has a make up for a happy face, even though his expression is really an opposite of happiness. He wear a keyring for fingers of victims he killed on his belt, that tells something about him. Trickster doesn't have any of that depth in his looks, he's just a k-pop guy.
What about instead of the knives auto healing, give him some sort of unique mending mechanic where survivors can spend x ammount of time removing knifes individually. (Of course the X time is debatable as to what it should be)
This would at least buy him some extra time as the knifes you'd use on survivors that never actually took a health state wouldn't be completely wasted.
That’s actually a really neat idea, and would also be opportunity for fun animations too. They do seem to be having a blast with animations for this chapter after all.
May I add, while doing that, have the survivors perform a difficult skill check for each knives. If they missed one skill, then once they are done removing the knives, they would enter an injured state.
Since it is recommended to not remove foreign objects in your body like that or you would bleed out more.
@@ricky18redblack31 I don't really like the idea of going into the injured state if you miss one (not like skill checks actually require skill, but that would be a little weird), instead I believe they should make it so if you miss a skill check it gives an audible and visual notification to the killer while also stopping the progress as if you failed a healing skill check. Maybe even make it so if you miss one of the skill checks the time it takes to remove the other knives is increased, so if you miss like 5 it would take a long time or something like that.
I think this could be cool if you could remove the knives incremetally, meaning you don't have to wait for a full bar to fill up to get their effect to go away at once.
@@robertoneto3897 Well... that's the point. Skill checks are easy, so by messing up, you deserve to get into an injured state. Plus healing for a long time might be a bother and boring. But that's just me.
I feel the ricochet should be part of his base kit(without the extra damage to the new meter of course), it would add more to his "Trickster" identity and also give him a slightly better effective range and mindgame in loops
Nice idea, and for the addon let his knifes ricochet up to 5 times against surfaces, without the knife damage increasing, also change it to green or something
@@damianmendoza4067 For 5 bounces? Definitely keep it a purple at that. On an indoor map that's filling a room with projectiles.
@@Yawyna124 Haha, that’ll be fun to watch lol XD
This is exactly what he said in the video xD
I agree, that and bouncing the knives off the ground for an easier time to hit fits with the trickster name.
Imagine 1 ricochet being base-kit then an add-on that added additional ricochets or reduced spread
When would you trigger the ricochet ?
@@doublelizard767 hitting environment
@@doublelizard767 he means all knives ricochet but add ons let you add an extra bounce or two even which sounds busted honestly in any somewhat indoor area.
@@dustinsaunders314 Ohh my dumbass thought he wanted an individual knife to ricochet, not all of them.
@@dustinsaunders314 Yeah this is what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. Also yeah it might be busted on the indoor maps just thought it would be funny to see haha
His Main Event state shouldn't actively decrease his stock of knives if it's supposed to be a state where you have infinite ammo. If I still have to reload after then it's punishing me for using it in the way I should be: constantly holding down the throw button for 15~seconds
This, especially combined with the fact that you can’t sit on a charge of main event, since it goes away after like 15 seconds
I feel like his ricochet add-on should be more of a “smart” ricochet where it at least goes in the general direction of a survivor and has a better chance of actually hitting someone. A lot of the hit boxes in dbd weren’t made for this kind of gameplay and it really shows on maps like McMillan estate or literally any map that has rounded debris
i almost feel like they should just envelope all terrain in a little cube that only the ricochet interacts with, less throwing over loops but better ricochet.
Good idea! Honestly they should make the ricochet base kit and the smart ricochet an add-on.
@@spaceblockb5284 That would help him little, but also punished every ranged killer while trying to shoot over loops. That is just bad.
@@Deny399 if you read my comment, only his daggers would interact with those hit boxes
@@spaceblockb5284 Knowing this game, itd make clown's bottles crash the game on hitting those 'dagger-only boxes'
I think that if lacerations are permanent, you should be able to "mend them" similar to deep wounds. This would decrease the meter as you heal, so instead of an all-or-nothing heal, if you can't heal all the way you still heal some of the lacerations. I think that would add a little stall potential.
I really like this idea, slowly pulling the knives out but I think it should start out extremely slow, and each knife pulled out would increase the speed. This would prevent it being used in chases like how you’re able to do with mend if you just sit on one side of a pallet.
@@KaiWills Well the idea is that it works like conventional healing, so to do it yourself you would have to use up your medkit or do it really slowly with self care.
It feels like this killer was originally designed to in someway use the mending mechanic, I don’t want more mending mechanics in the game, but it seems he needs some thing to replace that hole
Imagine having to mend for 20 seconds because this guy threw a few knives at you while chasing some1 else
Sounds fun
@@Liumane ... Just make mending time based on amount of knifes in you
7 knives 7 seconds +3 seconds 10 second mend time
@@Liumane it does yeah! Great point, it would be pretty fun
I feel like a better way to work the knives, is to have the knives stay in, but give survivors a recovery ability about the same speed as trying to open a trapper trap you step in, and each time you complete it, you remove a knife. this way survivor's are rewarded for escaping chases without causing good loopers to lose knives and punish the killer for a lower movement speed.
nice idea; like this concept.
I was comparing him to Plague after the first match and people called me crazy! I am happy that someone as experienced as you do agree with me on that!
I thought "wait, isn't this just a remixed Plague?" after just reading his ability description and without actually playing him.
I have no idea when you're supposed to use his power, like sometimes at short loops but most of the time the m1 is better.
Which is very bad for a Killer with 4.4 m/s. Definitely needs some tweaking.
I guess all the time. Like hillbilly with chainsaw but instead when they are far away.
Yeah, I mean, from what I've seen from multiple streamers the tiles with low walls seems to be his strength but he's quite weak everywhere else. That's not to say he isn't fun because they all (for the most part) enjoy how fun his power seems, but beyond the fun factor they definitely need to up the "tricks" in "trickster".
That's why they made him 110, so that he needs to use them
@@deadmeme887 Which is exactly the problem, his knives aren't that good that they deserve a movement decrease
Good to see Jared Leto reprising his role as Joker in the new chapter
They took inspiration from the joker, no joke.
@@imightbetrying5003 I'm da KPOP baybeeeeee
@@bigmac8880 I don’t remember asking how you got those scars
On the bright side, I can finally play blight again without just being drained by the slip and slides all over the map. Might be my favorite killer again if they did it right.
I did some labbing on shelter woods, which I personally had the most issues with, and HOLY SHIT he's so much better now. You can actually hit the stumps, you can use his power on shack (MacMillan shack had a weird hump that would push you away from the door) and you can even hit the big tree in the middle at most angles. I'm sure he's just as good on other maps now AND he's like a foot or two taller than survivors now! It's SOO GOOOD.
I’ve been playing for about six hours with him. 90% of that time is waiting for a lobby.
Oof
Cause everyone is trying to play the killer, survivors are just skins
it be like that
That's why streamers do kyf
This should be expected on the PTB, no reason for people to play survivor except to see what it’s like against the new killer or for people who literally never play killer
when i saw him and his power i immediately thought he looked more like a tumblr oc than a dbd killer
Also, shouldn't he have 100% precision with his knives when he enters Main Event? That would make his special move/final form/ultimate jutsu a lot more fearsome.
The trickster is a true gamer. Both rgb weapon and knives
It seems like they developed him in mind for anti bullying play. His perks, add ons, all shine when multiple survivors are crowding you. I believe they need to increase his movement speed, or rework lacerate to make him more effective. They need to decide whether to keep him slow with more lethality, or speed him up a bit to close off chases
Or you know, his perks are useful in a crowd because... He wants that, that's nearly all his lore
wow i just finished the previous video looking at the perks, nice timing
They shouldn't get a speed boost after being injured with knives. Why is he 110 if he can't shoot accurately at a distance.
He should be, at the very least, like PH; 115% base but 110 in power.
@@bophadesknutz7798 nobody should be like PH. he needs a nerf
@@Phantom-kc9ly I dont know how you read my comment and your take away was me talking about his power and viability as a killer, and not his movement quirk
@@bophadesknutz7798 I'm saying nobody should have a lethal ranged attack at 110% speed. Especially 115 killers.
@@Phantom-kc9ly Well, well... Looks like we found the lil survivor main here...
I can't believe that they added Adam Celadin to Dbd. This is a good day.
About to go to sleep UK time 1:09..... sees Scott has uploaded. ‘Never mind. Sleep can wait’
A fellow British person with their priorities straight
@@wicky6734 A fellow British person replying to a fellow British who has his priorities straight
IMO, The advantages that he has over the other killers is both his heigh and his Terror Radius. With a Monitor and abuse you can sneak up on survivors better than Huntress because of her Lullaby and you can possibly mindgame gyms (specially if he has some dark recolors) a little better because he's not as tall as a Deathslinger or a Plague. You can also use his M2 to build up STBFL for some builds. Overall I think he'll be pretty average as a killer but pretty fun to play with.
he has the same base terror radius as hag, hag is even smaller than hi with some cosmetics that are near completely brown/black if you want stealth, the only thing TECHNICALLY you pointed out is saving STBFL stacks BUT to counter that hag has her whole teleport ability for mobility, mind games, instant damage, etc. so for your "reasons for playing him" just play hag instead
@@steeldragon5730 Not really... I find Hag pretty boring to play... e.e Put corrupted intervention > Place a trap web > Guard gen positions. Trapper has the same idea but his playstyle is way more fun to me. Also, Hag's camera is annoying. C:
I think you bring up some good points here. Specifically, one point you mentioned on stream earlier was why play Trickster when you can just play Huntress instead.
It seems to me that both Huntress and Trickster were made to perform well in chases, the only difference being that Huntress does Trickster’s job more effectively. The only thing I can see Trickster having that’s better than Huntress is tracking with his lower terror radius, but some people would say that Huntress’s omnidirectional humming helps more than a lower terror radius. Also, finding survivors becomes second nature when you get a good amount of hours in the game.
Thanks for the analysis and for the fun stream!
Why play Trickster when we have Deathslinger?
Caleb outclasses him in every way possible...
Why play any other killer when you have Nurse, Spirit, Freddy?
Maybe it's not always about killer's strength but about their aesthetics and gameplay mechanics..?
@@IHasIdea ... but the Tricksters mechanics are very similar to Huntress, Plague and Deathslinger?
Thats the whole point, he basically does what those killers already do just in weaker.
If we compare him to Caleb, the only difference they have is, that Calebs shots are a lot more lethal than his and that he has no reeling part.
Im not denying that the MG aspect of his power is very fun to use, but it alone isn’t enough to differentiate him from the others enough to really change the feeling you have when playing him VS the feeling you have when playing one of the others.
At least thats how i felt when playing him.
@@MrxD-cg5xs I don't see Huntress throwing 60 hatchets in high speed, or Slinger shooting 60 times like from a machinegun. I don't see their shots ricocheting with an addon. What we do have are the cool animations and aesthetic of the new killer, plus the fact that he's the next killer who speaks besides Plague speaking ancient Babylonian.
Are their powers and playstyle similar mechanically speaking? Yes. Is this better and more inspired than the proxy camp fest that was last killer? Absolutely.
"Doesn't look like a horror killer" - Have people not seen what serial killers look like? Exactly like everyone else.
Bad comparison. Horror killer =/= serial killer. Most of the killers in DbD were not serial killers before they met the Entity.
@@ThePowerofCutleries The most iconic ones are serial killers.
A serial killer CAN be a horror killer.
@@ThePowerofCutleries cuz bubba wasn’t a serial killer right?
yeah let's just add a 40 year old suburban dad who likes to grill on the weekends, he's a serial killer though, he's scary
@@orbglorb-zingalorg You think 4 teens who stab people are scary?
They've done this shit before.
Another recommendation, people get the incapacitated effect + broken effect for five seconds when being hit by a knife. No healing mid chase to remove usefulness from knives completely, and could make a unique spam power to stop multiple people on generators from persisting even though you're there.
I think the reason a lot of people like playing him or want to play him is because he just looks fun and feels cool to play, if you take out the competitive side of things, that’s the reason why people play their killers
Exactly, people get bored of the same Nurse/Spirit/Freddy gameplay that is competitively the best but just not fun in the long run. Especially with MMR as casual as it is.
@@IHasIdea Killer side of the game is single player so I feel like 'winning no matter what' is the only source of 'fun' for some people. When I was playing with friends back then we were intentionally fucking each other over just for laughs and the game was still fun. As soloQ survivor I still dont take it too seriously and happily die for others in EGC or throw myself inbetween when someone would be on death hook. but the amount of salt that gets thrown around (survivors dying or killer not getting that kill they wanted) is unreal~
@@IHasIdea agreed but I can’t hate on nurse lmao, nurses that are actually good are few and far between but always accepted as the better species 😂
He’s a really good hook camper. If he’s pelting knives into a surv trying to unhook someone else it’ll cancel the unhook animation once they’re injured and, since there’s no cooldown when rapidly throwing knives, he can just obliterate the injured surv until they’re downed.
But you gamers wouldn’t camp hooks, I trust all of you 🔫
Trickster new Japanese meta killer? You can sit on his aim state unlike Bubba
Any weak killer Will have to camp
@@Insanity-vv9nn he has the potential to be really good, but as of now his hook camping is far superior. Dare I say, he overshadows Bubba’s hook camping
I love both of those ideas. Honestly if they made those changes I would grab that guy immediately cause that sounds like alot of fun.
Love the comparison to plague. Didn't think about it, but it's very true.
Either make it so getting hit by enough knives downs instantly, or make it so they don't deteriorate.
Bad, but really fun is the general opinion everyone seems to have. I can live with that.
Better to have a fun killer that can be buffed or tweaked later than a boring one that's strong.
Random idea I had for a potential addon/rework: never run out of knives, start out with a slightly higher laceration damage, but every 10 or so consecutive throws without restocking at a locker, you deal less. Still incentivizes you to reload, gives him potential higher damage output, but punishes just mindlessly spamming them (while still allowing it), similarly to limited ammo.
What about giving some effects depending on the amount of knifes you have on the body. For example, 1 knife: Leaves a small trail of blood on ground, 4 knifes: Survivor starts to grunt from pain, 6 knifes: Sprinting velocity reduction, 7 knifes: Actions such as repairing motors, searching in chests, opening the gates take longer. It's just an idea
Agreed. Honestly, it doesn't feel threatening to have like 6 knives inside yourself when you can do everything normally without any sort of penalty.
few suggestions for the trickster:
(Note: not saying to add all these but maybe implement like 1 or 2 of them and he will be solid also, for #2, numbers can defiantly be adjusted. I just picked numbers that seem ok but unforgiving for survivor)
1) give a generously longer window to proc main event
2) give more of an incentive to use throwing knives over just hitting them. Maybe if you want to keep it to 8 knives/health state then make the knives have temporary de-buffs with the more you land. Ex, While full health: 3 hits = 15 sec exhausted, 6 hits = hindered(3%) 30 sec or until injured, While injured: 3 hits = 30 sec hemorrhage, 6 hits = 60 sec broken or mangled
3) Maybe give him a sweeping fan attack where he throws like 5 blades in a horizontal line for move set diversity
4) Make the ricochet knives part of base kit
I think you addressed some fair points.
But there are also some advantages compared to the Plague:
- you can "hit" injured people
- much higher projectile speed
- smaller terror radius
- no charging necessary
- faster when holding knives (?)
- main event is a free boost, which survivors can't deny
(- survivors can't cleanse to heal, which is fast and no teammate is needed
Just to recap the main disadvantages:
- partly damaged effect goes away by time instead of increasing on its own
- survivors can heal instead of being broken
- requires reloading in lockers
- 5% less base movement speed
I just like his aesthetic, he's like Plague and Huntress' love child and I'm all for it 🎉
Scott: I have a problem with the new killer.
BHVR: Aw shit, here we go again.
Laceration bar should only deplete after a survivor is healed a health state or hooked, but for each laceration bar there is a decrease to healing speed.
I’d say that while pile plague spews bile which needs multiple charges for her to even damage the survivor, Trickster can damage a survivor EXTREMELY quickly at medium range. 16 knives can be thrown in less than 15 seconds. I’d say plague is great at overall pressuring survivors from a distance with her sickness and the fact that it can transfer or power up. However Trickster isn’t really one that pressures multiple survivors, more like he can add tension within a chase at almost any range. You aren’t safe just because you’ve gained distance at all unlike many other killers. Not extreme distances like DS or Huntress can but because they make it extremely forgiving when you have bad aim it can melt pretty quickly.
If you think a killer that needs to hit the survivor 8 times Just to injure them is good you dont even play against survivors that knows How to counter huntress. Its the same as saying "wraith is underrated". No, he sucks and only shines against bad survivors or survivors that are not trying to win
@@Insanity-vv9nn you can watch gameplay of survivors against him, usually you can’t dodge them all you have to stay out of sight because at medium range it’s not difficult hit all your shots, long range sure, medium though, he’s pretty good. I’ve actually played Huntress quite a bit, she excels at range however when she misses its not as forgiving as the Trickster. You can spam throws and get a lot of good hits in when they vault or even throw a pallet. He’s not going to be bad, he’ll be a character that’s easy to use and not too strong either. Like probably B tier or lower simply because he can win chases pretty consistently.
@@Insanity-vv9nn also don’t be an ass like “then you don’t know what it’s like against so and so” like cmon dude we all play the game what’s the need for questioning someone’s experience. I’m looking at this from a survivor and killer’s perspective, he’ll do just fine in chases however when it comes to map pressure, map coverage, or anything else that’s important to have, he has none.
Funnily enough when I was watching otz and ohtofu vids they kept comparing him to huntress, and my thoughts the whole time were "why would I ever play him over plague?"
I feel as though they need to take the recoil away. We're not playing a FPS here we're playing a glorified cat and mouse game.
Well I have to give credit for these 2 things.
1:The locker reload animation.
2: The look of the throwing knife precise hitboxes and show how hitboxes should be.
I love how the video end with a firecracker blind.
I think the laceration not going away would just be a nice quality of life change and would make the knives actually viable on certain tiles rather than just forcing m1s. The ricochet idea being base kit would be cool but I think itd be fine even if they didnt do that. What id really want is main event to not instantly go away once you get it since you might have gotten it in a situation where they break los behind a wall and then youre just not able to get any value out of it. Rn if you want value out of it you have to play in a way where you pocket it similarly to a myers tier 3 and then start it after throwing a single knife but that also means you dont get your power when saving it. Overall I like the idea it could just use some minor stuff to make the knives feel like theyre worthy of not playing huntress or plague instead.
Tl;dr hes interesting in concept but could use some minor changes to feel much more fun and viable imo
1 simple fix I've come up with
When you tag a survivor with enough blades to where you get the sound cue when they are about to be injured that survivor should also be inflicted with Exposed.
So the killer has a extra option, to close the distance with a insta down M1, or do they take the easy ranged injure.
On top of the changes you recommend I think that would warrent him being a 110% killer.
Okay here are my ideas:
each knife that hits the survivor (stacks up to 7) will decrease movement speed and action speed by 1%, maybe an add on to increase the percentage? but there should also be a feature like mending, so you pull out each knife according to how many you have in you. This means the laceration won't just disappear but you manually have to take the knives out. Also ricochet should be base kit not sure why they didn't do that.
Edit: when I say stacks up to 7, I mean on the eighth knife the survivor loses a health state and the movement speed/ action speed penalty resets to 0 and then it repeats..
Maybe I'm going over here but I feel like a trickster who's small, thin and agile should be able to run at 115%.
That is not a bad idea
@@potis10101 thank you
100% agree with the ricochet being basekit. He reminds me a lot of Draven and I love Draven even if I hate LoL
I wouldn't really compare him to Plague. The fact that she can't down unless she has corrupt purge while Trickster can is a huge deal. Also I'd say he's better than Plague. He can whittle away health states from a distance (and not lose distance like Plague would, and hit much more consistently) and then when survivors actually lock into an action you're going to get off, like, 4 knives, which is half of a health state. So not only can he damage you while you're running between loops but actually looping and taking actions will damage you too. But I absolutely agree that the decay is a huge problem, and also I think his Main Event prompt at the very least should stay for, like, 10 seconds longer so that he isn't in situations where he's wasting Main Event 90% of the time. Even giving him unlimited time to activate it I don't think would be overpowered, but idk.
Laceration shouldn't decay and survivors should be able to "mend" their laceration, with each knife increasing the "mend" timer. It would give him much needed stall potential, and make getting hit by his power more threatening. Also, I disagree with giving him infinite ammo but increasing it from 60 to 100 or something would let him commit to more chases before having to reload.
No thanks, mending is such a boring mechanic
@@1z487 yeah they should just make it so that survivors don’t have to heal either, they just become healthy after 30 seconds. Dumbass
@@cathair9295 healing is completely different subject but A+ for trying
Would it be cool if we had add ons that changes the knives damage? For example:
1) He could have knives with freezing affects, which could significantly slows down a surv and when using Showstopper he could possibly (like probs 2%) have the chance to completely immobilise a them
2) He could also have knives that could be lit up in flames which causes serious burns, scratch marks are more vivid and last longer. When using Showstopper it also has the chance (just gonna go with 2%) to explode on impact immediately reducing them to the dying state (mmm not sure about this one)
3) He could have poisoned knives that could speed up infliction towards the injured state, meaning you use less knives. When in the injured state survivors occasionally scream from lethal poisoning alerting The Trickster. When using Showstopper on a survivor her aura disappears, even when survivor is hooked (only hook would appear not survs aura) (yeah I really don’t know about this one....)
These are my muddled up ideas 😅they all sound straight up stupid 🤣🤣
Totally agree with the ricochet idea. The ricochet seems to be the most fun mechanic, and it seems like it should be a part of him already. As for the ricochet add-on, either make it ricochet more, or give it the 200% laceration effect
counterpoint: his creepy laugh while i’m getting chased makes me quake in fear
im really glad at the least that their addon design has gone farther than 'hitting with power make survivor mangled/blind/hindered' etc., his addons are actually really fun and interesting (although the red one that exposes people instead of injuring really makes the plague comparison even more noticeable)
THE SPUND MAN UPLOADED
Maybe they should make some extra hit boxes for things, like an octagonal prism thing for trees, but these are only used by the Trickster’s Knives or the Blight’s Rush or something. Just so that the bouncing is more predictable
Maybe the knives could expand and start spinning as a dual edge blade in a wider width once they ricochet? That way it could be justified to increase the size of the ricochet hitboxes without it feeling like Huntress flying truck hatchets do.
Playing up the ricochet part of his kit is definitely needed, and making knives not expire also makes sense. I think they should force survivors to pull out the daggers but maybe make some consequence for it like plague and her power.
I feel ricochet basekit with the addon giving an extra ricochet would be cool.
They could make it that the laceration only starts to fade when not moving. That would atleast stop it from going down in chase
1. Speed him up. He can only throw against short objects and windows.
2. Make it to where survivors can't auto-heal knife wounds.
3. Main Event should last far longer, charge faster and replenish a 1/4 of your knives so you don't end off with nothing.
I think the idea behind this killer is to get value when survivors use resources, 3 knifes when dropping pallet, 2 on windows, probably they nerfed the amount needed to injure/down and increased the amount of knives when they realized that it would be op on open areas and at close range
We've heard your concerns. Plague now gives a speed boost when infecting survivors just like when taking damage normally. Infection will also decay over time. Removed fountains from game.
Plague also has environmental interactions like puking on gens, pallets and windows to get her infection, she has passive tracking because peopel loudly vomit and emit green smoke, she benefits from survivor interaction with healing after an unhook or makes healing in general impossible, her vomit has an arc meaning you don't even need line of sight if you're predicting a survivors position correctly and as you said corrupt bile in general is leagues above main event from kpop joker.
As someone who loves Plague to death I wasn't bothered by his gameplay as much as other people but it just feels like old Legion all over again as in "I will just spam knife your way and it might take a century but you will go down!"
Just to clarify, if you don't hold M1 and tap it instead your knives are accurate, it's only when you hold M1 are they inaccurate (touching on the point around 1:20) but I'm quite happy with the rest that you said 🤷♀️
I think there are 2 adjustments that could give him better potential.
*First,* allow him to stack his M1 with his laceration hits - not reset them if he does M1. This would open him up to different strategies and combinations revolving around his M1 and laceration. (Example, you could go for 4 lacerations, get the M1, then only need 3 more lacerations to down). To counter adjust this change (if it is 'too strong') is to just increase the amount of lacerations he needs to get to injure or down.
*Second,* the laceration counter should not deplete AT ALL. A way of looking at it is - if lacerations deplete over time, then he should get his knives back without reloading (sounds dumb I know). No other killer can 'injure' a survivor, just for there injury to fade over time - it's a dumb downside to his power
*BONUS Third,* make him a 115% or the very least a 112.5% speed killer, that way he isn't being compared to Huntress or Deathslinger - which have far superior ranged powers.
After playing him for one game I went like "Is this it?" he feels like something an intern created in a week
Still waiting on that official Garfield effect review Scott, can't hide forever
8 Knives, more than enough to kill anything that moves...
Unless the knife is made of rubber or paper lol
*gets Main Event*
Now I have 12 knives. This time I won't lose.
Maybe they should add hinder or whatever the movement speed reduction stat is, going higher for each stack of laceration (if thats how the speed reduction can work) just to give some bit of a reason to play him over another killer.
I love you Scott your videos make my day fr
I love the points you made but I also really like the concept of the killer.
I liked the base ricochet idea, but me personally didn't mind the laceration going down as fast as it does, it allows for new types of gameplay. (We already have a ghostface, right?)
These are my two suggested changes:
1 - Make him a standard 115% movement speed/32m terror radius, with a speed boost like legion speed when on "Main Event". Also, "Main Event" once charged should be available to use at will.
or 2 - Keep him without any major changes, but tweak around with his values, I think reducing his base knife count to 40 and increasing to around 10 hits to fill the laceration meter, but once full, it's insta-down.
I would increase the time before lacerations drop off by default, something like after 15 seconds of escaping chase, and they drop off 1 per 10s. Then have an add on that reduces knives required to reduce a health state to 6, and an add on that stops lacerations from dropping off if the survivor is engaging with anything, gens, hooks, healing, chests or getting in a locker.
Teaser: *obviously hinting to a some kind of rewind power*
Actual power: *knives*
This is the third killer in a row with a trash power.
But...but Blight’s power is amazing
@@gloopy4535 true but its generic. Press m2 to run fast and hit people
@@gloopy4535 I’ve never been hit by his power
@@dadofrats Then you must not go against good Blights
Listen here, Scott of the Jund! Dead by Daylight is a HORROR Survival game. It's about FEAR and being SCARED of the MIGHTY KILLER!
It's about crouching in bushes and quivering as the Killer walks past you (at a movement speed faster than a human running - DON'T QUESTION THE SCIENCE! It's POWER WALKING!).
This game is NOT about "fUn cHaSes" or some weird chess game with gens and exit gates and strategies - no, no, no, this is a SCARY game where you are SCARED to--
Ok, I can't go on with this. It started as a fun sarcastic thing and just became too long and weird and I just feel like I was looking for a punchline that never came.
Love your discussion and thoughtful videos, Scott. Keep up the good work!
Ricochet + Death Throes will probably be one of the most OP things in the game, and will be fairly common to see. Ricochets aren't that hard to hit if you just aim for people's feet, and with Death Throes, you will down people in 2 knives if you're close enough. Other than that, this killer will probably just be "alright" if you get really good with him.
I ike him, his perks are fun, he looks cool and he has one of the best backstory in the game imo.
One of his perks is outclassed by bamboozle. Let that sink in. The only perk he has that might be useful is the one that blocks the switches for the exit gates since I'm pretty sure that can stack with Remember Me; it's really just an end game perk and his power is so situational, it has less versatility than the even the PLAGG does.
I think it would be a good thing if The Trickster could do some *trick* in his power.
Give the goddamn trickster a trick, BHVR.
It'd be really cool if the richochet add-on added double or triple richochet, so you could really play with the angles
I feel like none of this chapters stuff relate like why does this basically just a k pop star coverd in blood have knives to throw and what did the teasee have to do with him at all?
The survivor, Yun-Jin, was Ji-Woon Hak's talent manager and the one who brought him to a state of fame from a former life of relative poverty; she was also the only survivor to the cumulating event that lead to him being contacted by the entity. That's if you're referring to the new survivor as the "Teasee", and thus why her perks are named after stereotypical showbusiness rat race stuff.
The reason he throws knives is because that is the trick he did for his dad as a tourist attraction; it was his act before Yun-Jin found him and brought him into the world of K-Pop boy bands.
@@Yawyna124 cool back story
I feel like the devs procrastinated with this chapter and then just threw this together a week ago and now here we are.
I personally like the simplicity with The Trickster. Theres nothing too fancy with him, no swapping, no bouncing off walls, just throw a few knives at people and that's it.
Yeah, just spam your power, kinda brings back the memories of the old Legion Kappa
@@YagamiTrala yeah, that's why I prefer more simple killers to play, instead of ones with weird gimmicks, like Twins and such. For example, I'm a Deathslinger main. I shoot survivors with gun, I bring them closer, boom. Rinse and repeat.
@@cbdrawer9527 That was sarcasm. This new killer's power is just braindead. You literally spam the knives.
1: don't limit base knifes
2: don't make knives decay in chase. Stealthing or being across the map for a long time, or mending should remove them though IMO, because why not. Maybe pull a Madness where the first 2-3 knives don't decay until hook or something. I'd even settle for this being an addon.
3: make ricochet base, but limit ricochet to a smaller number (enough to do 1 health state, maybe more/less depending on addons), possibly make more reliable or more damaging
4: add a moon shot mechanic, where it has like, float time of like, more than a second and requires more accuracy (since it falls more vertically, instead of horizontally), but hits are worth 2-3 knife hits. Maybe it replaces the ricochet as an addon, like dream snares vs fake pallets.
(ricochet/moon shot can be like, a charged shot, if you aim above 45 degrees, it's a moon shot instead)
there. A whole bunch of options/changes that would be real dope.
New killer doesn’t look really strong but he’s fun as fuck
Honestly, he's the best non-one hit down killer, tied with plague, if there's nothing/only weak windows for the survivors.
In loops tho he's like huntress, but without the need to kick most pallets with no LoS since he's overall faster than her in hitting. So you can just run around around it slowly downing them.
I see potential here.
OK, this is what I would do to him if it was up to me, based on what I and I alone find fun (this is HEAVILY biased with my own preferred playstyle, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt):
-Movement speed increased from 4.4m/s to 4.6m/s (110% -> 115%)
-Knives ricochet off surfaces a single time. Rework the ricochet addon to increase the number of ricochets to 3 as well as giving the increased laceration
-Laceration no longer decays or goes away after going into the injured state
-Firing speed reduced from ~3 knives per second to ~2 knives per second
-Number of knives needed to inflict a health state increased from 8 to 10
-Max amount of carriable knives increased from 60 to 90
-Reload speed decreased from ~4 seconds to ~3 seconds
-Knife holster speed reduced to 0.1 seconds
-Movement speed while holding up a knife increased to 4.0m/s (100%)
This would effectively create a killer that is really good at slowly whittling away at the survivor's health while in a chase. This would most likely be weaker than current Trickster, but it's just how I wish I could play the character.
A few counter points to some things you said:
With the whole plague-but-worse anaology, a crucial difference is that the plague can only down survivors with her puke if she went to a corrupt fountain, and at high level a lot of people tend to not cleanse against the plague cause then she becomes an m1 killer, whereas trickster can down with his power all the time without that sort of limitation.
As for the blade meter going down over time, I think its necessary to a degree because otherwise people will 99% survivors and at that point its basically just worse ghostface and I dont think anyone wants that. However, I agree that he does seem too weak, so I have 2 ideas for this issue:
1) After you are outside of terror radius for something like 15-20 seconds, it starts going down slowly, that way if you do lose him in a chase/he gives up chasing you its not like he can just run up and throw 1 knife to injure.
2) The meter never goes down on its own, but survivors can make the meter go down by removing the blades from themselves in an animation sorta like mending. I think for this idea it shouldnt be an "all or nothing" like how the mending bar works, but rather that the bar takes longer to fill the more blades a survivor has inside them.
Also I think either improving the accuracy a bit or increasing the travel speed of the blades would help this killer a lot. And maybe having the blades in main event do slightly more damage so they down a bit faster would be a nice quality of life change as well.
Both your idea of ricochet being the base kit and the knife decay are two things I thought of immediately after watching gameplay/playing him. Both would add enough to make him a good killer and not broken/average. Hopefully BVHR listens.
If the devs wanted to allow people to remove knives you could have the survivors gain a command to remove them at like 4-5 seconds a knife to remove, This way you allow the survivors the option at the cost of time. This also means you wouldn't be able to remove them mid chase since you would be standing still to remove them. I do like the idea of basekit havng the bouncing knives to keep his identity clearly different then the other killers.
Literally everything you said I wanted. Make the ricochets base kit minus bonus laceration, make laceration not decay, unless healing a health state.
Also give him an addon to apply mangled.
I think the edge (hehe) the knives gets over plauges vile purge is that once they injured with plauge you're just an m1 killer, where as with the trickster you can down with the knives and almost just wear the survivor down
Maybe a good buff for him is that you have the option to remove the daggers and each one takes a couple seconds to remove. The punishment for not removing them could be slowed healing speed/action speed. Might be op but it's all I could come up with for a buff other than what you mentioned
Wanna make him a trickster? Let him insta-switch between types of effects on his throws, (like reworked Clown but quicker,) like ricochet, splash damage, slow one shot at a time but double damage shots, etc... Let him do a bunch of different tricks and trick shots, so the survivors aren’t always exactly sure what they’re going against.
I think he has a place for newer players that want to be able to just kinda spam knives at people. Plague is a little more intimidating to pick up since you have to commit to charging her power and then purging for however long you charge, whereas trickster is just throwing knives for however long you want. Don't forget that he is labeled as an "easy" killer, which likely means he's meant to have a lower "underpowered" power ceiling, but also a lower skill floor - a kind of "training wheels" killer which I think DBD is lacking in. DBD killers, even "easy" ones, typically either have very limited resources/powers that punish the absolute hell out of you for missing (huntress, deathslinger, nurse, legion), or powers that require committing and charging (bubba, plague, doctor, etc.). We don't have a killer that can afford to spam a little without being punished as much.
I don't agree. There isn't really a need for a starter killer, there are plenty of killers that are easier to play for beginners (wraith, Myers, hillbilly, clown), plus ranking helps out with that a little, though, it's broken. If matchmaking actually worked, it would be perfect. There's no point in only having a killer just for beginners and then once you're good at the game you don't play him again cause he's not good for more experienced. DBD isn't that type of game. If ranking and matchmaking was fixed, then beginners could play any killer they wanted
@@ghostlyexe "If matching making worked, then xyz" isn't really an argument since it doesn't. But I think that's going down the wrong avenue for this discussion. Trickster is basically an easier version of plague/huntress/deathslinger, and I think there's definitely a desire for a killer like that. Huntress and deathslinger in particular are not newbie friendly. DBD has no aiming reticle and you get 1-6 shots, which have a significant wind up and travel time, and take a long time to reload. Trickster is the assault rifle compared to the sniper rifle of other ranged killers. You may miss, but misses aren't as big of a deal. Each hit isn't very powerful, but it's fine because you don't have to commit much to your attacks. And that's very nice for new killers and something DBD doesn't currently have on offer.