*9x12 & The Husbands of River Song Full Length* available on Patreon 🟥October Schedule 🟥 Monday - Eva (Episode 23 on October 9th) Tuesday - Monster Wednesday - HXH Thursday - Doctor Who Friday - Monster Saturday - HXH Vinland Saga PATREON - www.patreon.com/FILMBuFF TWITTER - twitter.com/_FILMBuFF_ INSTAGRAM - instagram.com/imsardar/
I know the episode is divisive but it's always been a personal favorite. I'm a sucker for character development over plot and this felt like it chucked a lot of potential boring plot stuff and just focused on giving 12 and Clara lots of good moments together. And have Capaldi and Coleman another excuse to show off their acting chops.
I agree. When I first watched this episode, I didn't like it as much. On rewatches though, I have a new appreciation for the episode. This episode is more of a character study, maybe something I couldn't appreciate when it first aired, but now I'm all in cause it's done very well.
I sort of understand why people don't like it, it's just a load of conversations in rooms, but the conversations are great and the rooms aren't too shabby either. As for it not being enough about Gallifrey as people expected, I can't relate, the opening Gallifrey stuff it tip top, and love the character stuff with the Doctor and Clara.
I've never heard anyone complain about this being full of conversations. The not-enough-Gallifrey complaint is definitely one I heard a lot, though. Or, rather, that Clara's resurrection hijacked what should have been a story all about the Doctor returning to Gallifrey and Gallifrey returning to the Universe. Since 2005 there haven't been any other Time Lords except the Master. The Doctor being the last of his species was brought up repeatedly. Also, in both _The End of Time_ and _The Time of the Doctor,_ the idea that the Time Lords might return was a huge threat. Now they're back, so shouldn't that have a massive effect on the whole Universe? This episode sweeps all that under the rug for more 12+Clara moments.
The show has never been concerned with that level of lore over character and I'm glad it didn't start here! Besides : "Gallifrey is currently positioned at the extreme end of the time continuum, for its own protection. We're at the end of the universe, give or take a star system."
@@SeanS102 That quote is exactly the rug-sweeping I was referring to. I’m not saying that’s bad or that the episode is bad. But I can definitely understand why, after the final scene of Heaven Sent, some people expected this episode to be all about Gallifrey and were then disappointed when it wasn’t.
@@theadamabrams sure, but I think the lack of willingness people display in having their expectations subverted is concerning, I like a story going in directions I didn't expect (although to this day am still baffled people thought Clara would never return after FTR, Hell Bent for me has never been an enormous rug pull for me), also I think the Gallifrey stuff in this is actually pretty excellent, even if it doesn't give you a comprehensive sci-fi answer to how the planet technically returned to the universe.
@@SeanS102 Expectations subverted is only a good thing if what subverts them is better. The reason why this episode gets a mixed reaction is because Clara over shadows the Doctor and simply put she isn't that special or important. The return of the Time Lords and the Doctor is ultimately just... more important and it isn't given enough plot. Plus Clara is always lecturing the Doctor, she doesn't even thank him for saving her. Its just... Gallifrey comes back and its sort of whatever trololol lets give Clara a tardis. The best moments in Doctor who are when the Doctor stops being silly guy and turns into Mr Epic and you see the reason he is a legend, this episode sort of puts him on the back burner. Same with the Save the Moon episode and so on, Capaldi is a great doctor when they let him, but a lot of his adventures with Clara revolve around giving her the spot light and she can't carry it.
Perfect ending for clara. She was becoming like the doctor, so it suits her perfectly to run away in a Tardis to have her own adventures before facing her raven once more. I also really love the morroring of the two in every aspect. Last series Clara raged over her loss of Danny and wanted to be owed, the doctor felt let dowb by her attitude. But, here the doctor experiences exactly the same thing, with clara taking the role of being disdapointed in him. Their story over two series is really fantastic for me.
Yeah the arc works a lot better when you see how Series 9 (and 8) is about Clara becoming the Doctor and how far 12 goes when he fears losing her (every story in S9 separates them in part 1 and is about how far 12 goes to get her back, Face the Raven/Heaven Sent/Hell Bent naturally follows that same formula), and that her "death" is more of a regeneration for her (notice how she stands in the same pose as the Doctor does when he regenerates in NuWho), and now she has a new life, a TARDIS, a companion and can have adventures for as long as she wants.
@@lucasdolding6924 thanks for that insight. I never noticed that detail before. Her death in face the raven really signposts what's about to happen to her.
I'm seeing a lot of negativity in the comments about series 10 which is honestly surprising. Series 10 is my favourite Capaldi series which established Capaldi as my favourite Doctor. It also has my favourite companion setup for Capaldi and most importantly my favourite New Who finale. To comment on this episode I remember hating it when it aired though I feel i have softened over time. An interesting detail from Moffat on this episode and the previous. Compare the Clara in this episode to the Clara in Capaldi's head in the previous episode. In the previous episode, "head Clara" continuously told Capaldi to keep going with his billion year self imposed punishment while in this episode the "real Clara" was horrified.
Im so surprised you don't get more views! Your in depth analysis of every episode is so appreciated by myself as someone who loves the show and has watched these episodes multiple times you unlayer things i had never realised and end up giving me a whole new perspective. I think once you react to the 60th anniversary in real time you will reach a bigger audience and hopefully they will go back and watch your old doctor who vids! Can i ask what is your profession outside of RUclips because you absolutely should be a professional film/TV critic!
I actually this episode a lot. I love that Clara gets a chance to cheat death for a while, but that it needs to be away from the Doctor, and that he's the one to deal with the consequences. I don't feel that it takes away from her choice to die, or why she'd done it, she just gets something that's not really life, not entirely free. At the very least, it's much better than Rose saying she died when she didn't, and then even finding a way back from a universe when it was meant to be impossible. I'm OK with this.
Or is it the same diner? Timely Whimely Clara brought her stuck in diner mode Tardis to that point in time when Any, Rory, River Song and the 11tth Doctor were all at Lake Silencio. Rassilon was not recast - he regenerated. And in the next episode the Doctor gets to do things he never knew he always wanted to do.
Great reaction and analysis as usual! Hell Bent had tough competition coming after the brilliance of Heaven Sent, and I have a couple nit-picks with the episode - but I don't think it deserves to be quite so divisive, and I'm glad it seems to have had some reappraisal over the years. There is some confusion surrounding the hybrid arc, and it's build-up wasn't necessarily the best, but we do get a fairly definitive answer here in it being the destructive lengths of Twelve and Clara's friendship. It feels like Moffat was trying to do something a little meta with the 'mystery namedrop' formula, by having it suggest some big foe at the end to distract from the answer being in front of us for most of the series, but it does backfire a little in execution. The expectation of a finale about Gallifrey is somewhat understandable given the build-up, but the context with which the Doctor gets there explains why it's all beneath him. We still get some interesting exploration of the Doctor's attachments and conflicts with Gallifrey, it's just not going to be the focus after the previous two episodes established a character-centric conclusion. Some take issue with the Doctors out of character moments in this episode, but that is kind of the point? We're being shown the Doctor breaking his own rules, pushed too far by grief and the complicated bond he had with Clara, for which the episode depicts him as in the wrong too. In regards to Clara's death, there certainly is an argument to be made that her fate here cheapens it. Personally I think the tragedy of her death still stands, but Doctor Who has and always will have a sense of magic and hope to balance out it's darker and sadder elements. Across this arc we've seen Clara becoming more and more like the Doctor, and she ultimately pays the price for her risky behaviour - but the Doctor is meant to be a role model and force for good, so should aspiring to be like him really end in punishment? The 'wiggle room' she has before returning to her death is a bit of a reward in a sense, one last chance to see the beauty of the universe because she knows her time is up and can really appreciate it (we don't know how long her and Me travel for, but I don't think it's something Clara would take for granted). And in doing this, Clara does live up to the Doctor! She died bravely, upholding her morals and for the good of others, but is reborn and gets to travel for a time with her own Tardis and a companion too. Such a great parallel.
I believe I read somewhere that they wanted Timothy Dalton but that he was unavailable so they had to use someone else. Recasting works quite well when dealing with Time Lords though haha. Also, you probably know this but there are two x-mas specials between series 9 and 10. Just incase you were to miss one of them. Also also, the 60th is set after Jodie’s run, so no one knows yet how much it will reference her era or not.
for me the best of the show. probably the episode i get the most out of on rewatches. i think it would have been a disservice to clara's arc to not end it this way. would have been another reaffirmation of the doctor being "better" than the companion such as donna's exit. in a way this is the opposite of journey's end in more ways than one. this episode absolutely undoes face the raven but i think it needed to. its clara's regeneration. the doctor does it every 1-3 series. without it we again just say the doctor is better know your place.
Oh I love this episode. And i had the great great good fortune to have visited and eaten in the diner. (Was in Cardiff - I think i heard it's sadly no longer there.)
I love this episode! Clara always wanted the Doctor to be a Doctor. She wanted him to be good. So emotional. The ending makes an amazing metaphor. Crossing paths but never being together. So powerful.
"The first thing you notice about the Doctor of War is that he's unarmed. For many, it's also the last." I love these little hints we get that the Doctor became something almost mythical in the war.
Not to be morbid, but the fucked up thing no one ever mentions is that Clara's father lost his wife very early on, raised Clara as a single father, and then (since it's a fixed point no matter how long "the long way round" ends up being), his daughter was found dead one day in an alleyway in London. Yikes, haha.
I didn't realise you were going to pause after Peter's run, but I'm not devastated by that. There are some good moments ahead but if I could do it all again, I might wish to also miss it out. There's some story lines I am really quite vehemently against.
I kind of feel like I could really enjoy a spin-off show "Clara and Me" with the two of them zooming around space and time in that diner...depending on the stories, and the directing, could be a lot of fun.,..
This episode is considered to be divisive in the Doctor Who fandom. I'll admit, I was one of those people who was disappointed with the episode when it first aired. I still have some issues with the episode, but on rewatches, I've had more appreciation for it. There are so many great character moments in this episode! Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman are so incredible together, like the chemistry between the two of them is so good. After rewatching the episode, I can understand why people consider Capaldi and Coleman to be best Doctor/Companion team. I think my main issue with the episode is still Me. I've never been fond of that character unfortunately. I have a couple of minor issues here and there, but overall though, I am a fan of this episode now! Also once again, just like the rest of Series 9, the production value for this episode is too good. Rachel Talalay is probably the best director to have worked on the show. *Made an edit to my comment. The video originally had a masterpiece tagline on the video and I made a comment about that, but FilmBuff said it was an accident.*
lol that was accidental, I was supposed to delete the masterpiece bit. I usually copy and paste the titles from the past episode, and then change the title.
T'Nia Miller (the actor that The General regenerated into) is such a great actor, I really wanted her to be the Doctor after Capaldi and then again after Jodie. I don't know what you're familiar with her with, but check out Years and Years, Haunting of Bly Manor and The Fall of the House of Usher (which just came out) for the best of her.
I like the episode. I do understand why people don't though. I think one of the main reasons is that ever since the end of Day of the Doctor there has been the possibility/hope/expectation that the Doctor will return to Gallifrey. That will be a big deal! Then, at the end of Heaven Sent, it looks like the show is finally about to deliver. However, in Hell Bent we do see Gallifrey but, as you say, the focus is not actually on Gallifrey but Clara. A lot of people are disappointed by that and I get it. Also, personally, although I do like Clara (and think Jenna Coleman is great) I was more than ready to see her go by the time of Face the Raven and I felt that was a good ending. However, ever since Capaldi began, it felt like she or Moffat couldn't decide whether and when she was leaving. It looked like she was leaving at the end of Deep Breath. Then during Mummy on the Orient Express. Then it was at the end of Death in Heaven. Then when she was old in Last Christmas. I felt "Just go already!" I think Moffat almost falls in love with the female characters he creates, especially River and Clara and the risk is that there is too much focus on them and they are too amazing. (He avoided that trap with River, because she would only pop up from time to time and I LOVE Alex Kingston as River.) That said, I do enjoy this episode and it gets more hat than it deserves.
I think the "problem" with this episode is that nothing could ever possibly follow Heaven Sent. It was always going to feel like a step down and it does, but it improved on rewatches for me. I'm looking forward to Season 10, it gets my vote for best season finale so far!
The only real issue I have with it is Gallifrey and Rasillon. It was an issue in series 4 too but Rasillon is completely different to his character from Classic Who and it just feels odd. And gallifrey, this is the first time Gallifrey has ever been properly back in New Who. It's always previously been destroyed or missing etc. but now it's here! And the doctor is going up against his own people! But then Gallifrey is shoved to the side and forgotten about so Clara can break up with the Doctor for the fourth time lol (I'm joking, I really like this send off for Clara.)
I quite like this episode, personally. Maybe not everything, but the Doctor trying to save her and the conversations they have around that were great. Didn't love Clara and Me being out there wandering and would have preferred if she just went back to the raven, but oh well. And I'm excited for next season! I quite liked season 10. Season 11 and on though.. I didn't like at all. And it has nothing to do with Jodie or the fact the Doctor turned into a woman. I was excited for the Doctor to be a woman actually, because it seemed like it could be an interesting change and hey, I'm a woman too. But *in my opinion* it didn't feel like Doctor Who after season 10 to me anymore. Again, nothing to do with Jodie being the Doctor. It was the writing I didn't enjoy anymore, personally. There are a lot of people who get upset at others for not enjoying her run and plenty of them try and blame "misogyny", when for many people it just didn't feel like the same thing anymore and had nothing to do with who was playing the Doctor. It was the writing (and I don't want to go into specifics because.. spoilers). It's like how some people constantly blame racism if a lot of people don't like certain movies or shows when it's entirely possible to just not like something because of the writing, and *constantly* calling everyone who dislikes something racist or misogynist because they have a different opinion is getting ridiculous and becoming a huge cop-out to not even bother looking into the actual reasons why people don't like something.. It's a lazy accusation. There obviously are people who are racist and misogynist, but those people are a minority in most cases when *a lot* of people don't like a show or movie or seasons of a show.
I will say Jodie's era is one that has a lot of hatred towards it. It's not my favourite era, but I do love the change it brings. Excited for when you get to it, each of her series' are so different from each other and there are a lot of highs as well
I can't wait for the next episode. It's my favourite Christmas special❤😄 I love Jodie as the Doctor. She is amazing!! She is funny and clever.... she is the Doctor. Sadly lots of the stories in her episodes weren't that good, with few exceptions like Spyfall and Rosa. At first I didn’t really like Clara as a companion (during the Matt Smith era). When 11th Doctor became 12th Doctor... I didn't like Peter Capaldi as the Doctor. During this time I was watching Doctor who from TV in real time as the episodes were aired. (Though I wasn't watching regularly so I alwayd missed a few episodes here and there) I stopped watching for a few years. Then I noticed Netflix had Doctor who Episodes from the 5th series (the beginning of 11th Doctor's era) to 10th. I watched it again and this time I also watched Peter Cabaldi's era and I loved it. Now he is perhaps my favourite Doctor. I also grew to like Clara. This duo was amazing. My favourite quote from this episode is from Me: "She died for who she was and for whom she loved" Thank you!!
I am not sure what you mean by people disliking Clara although I wouldn't know anyway watching this almost 10 years after her last appearance. I think she's the best companion, perhaps too good of a companion because she matches the Doctor's enthusiasm, after Danny's death it felt to me she became even more unhinged though and it was a mistake for the Doctor to act as if nothing happened at all and to continue travelling with her but maybe her death was inevitable. Jenna Coleman did an amazing job though, her and Capaldi have an amazing dynamic. I think where this episode dropped the ball is that it first makes you think Gallifrey is important when it's not. It just doesn't matter. The moment we see Clara is the moment Gallifrey goes out the picture and that plot is just dropped. It seems a common pattern that Gallifrey is written poorly and in my opinion should have been left alone maybe. It was written best in Day of the Doctor where it actually had a purpose, most everywhere else it's just used to screw around. Capaldi's run though just feels unique to me, maybe because it's more modern than the others, but it's also him that brings gravitas to the character, just like you see in the beginning he doesn't need words to act, he looks around that shed and he remembers. There's a kind of feeling you get with certain series or movies like Lord of the Rings, that's how I feel about Capaldi's run, it just feels different, in a good way
Despite this finale not being great, overall I really like Series 9. Capaldi and Coleman give their best performances in this season (imo) which helped push the dynamic between Clara and Twelve to another level. The *look* of the whole season is still my favourite to this day, and there really are some amazing stories here (Magicians Apprentice/Witches Familiar, Under the Lake/Before the Flood, Girl Who Died, Heaven Sent) and it gave us some all-time great scenes.
I thought about a possible spin-off for Clara and Me (Ashilda) But I don't think you can make much of a story with two main character that is technically Immortal 🤔
Well you made it to the end of my personal run🎉. I wasn't a fan of the next season, peter was great but i felt the writing was poor more than not, although it does have a handful of good moments and definitely picks up nearer the end of it. And the season after that was my last, i didn't grow out of it, i just wasn't Chibnals targeted audience🤷🏿♂️. I hope you enjoy Who going forward though.
As of today, I'm still confused as to how I feel about this episode. There's so many things about it that I just don't like. But the character element is great, although IMO goes too overboard (especially Clara travelling the universe with Me in an American diner!!). I think it would've been a lot better if Clara just went straight back to her death at the end, as it wouldn't have taken too much away from that beautiful ending in FTR, and Clara herself keeps repeating how that was her choice, her ending, and that it shouldn't be taken away from her. I do wonder if this all could've still been achieved without the Timelords coming into it. I am of the opinion that if you're finally bringing the Timelords back, which at this point has probably become the single biggest plot-point in the show, that it deserves it's own dedicated attention. Surely Moffat must've known that this would be divisive? He obviously just didn't care, but tbf it's his right as showrunner to do what he wants with it. Looking forward to you going onto Series 10 now Im! I've been with you on this journey since the very start! Just please avoid all spoilers for S10! I'm perfectly OK with your decision to break after that. You're right that the consensus of Jodie's run is that **** hits the fan and it's a MASSIVE drop off, because of the writing. But I wpuld SIMPLY LOVE for you to react to 60th specials next month if you can? I really don't think you need to have seen Jodie's run at all to watch them, and if you don't see them soon after, you'll probably get spoiled one way or another.
The reactions that I have seen to this episode online have mainly been positive. Which I think is interesting. People outwith the fandom and the discourse surrounding this episode tend to judge it purely on what it is rather than what it isn't. The "Clara who" line I think was a response to fans who were unhappy at Clara's prominent role in the show. Some comments at the time were "Clara should've stayed dead, she thought she could be like the doctor and her stupidity killed her and instead she gets rewarded with her own tardis, you get the jist. Did Clara deserve to die for wanting to be like the doctor? Shouldn't we aspire to be like our role models? Whatever you think of this episode and there are very differing opinions on it, Im glad that they did something different with it. In a way it was trying to pave the way for the first female doctor. Unfortunately regarding the discourse, it was just the shape of things to come.
Just wanted to pop into the comments to vouch for Jodie's era. I've only just started watching your reactions so i'm not sure what you've said about the opinions you've heard, or what sorts of episodes you are really drawn towards - i look forward to watching more and finding out :) The amount of hate thrown at Jodie's era is outragious in relation to the actual quality of the era. It has just as much variety and peak/troughs in writing as the rest of NuWho. The only real difference is that it's a completely different tone than Moffat (which as someone who was exhausted after 6 series of Moffat, was a breath of fresh air). No more drastic than the switch between RtD and Moffat though. The problem is that the online campaign against the era was SO vicious, and even now saying positive things about it online anywhere can get you so much grief that a lot of people don't bother putting themselves out there and risking the blow back. I know some reactors that were watching in real time didn't even film their reactions to the run because the comments sections on their vids got so horrible. I hope you do give it a go and try to appproach it with an open mind. I've seen a lot of people say 'I heard a this era was awful and i keep waiting to start hating it and i just...don't, and am having a good time.' Sorry for the length of this! I just wanted to provide an alternative take on Thirteen's era. Plenty of the fanbase really enjoy Chibnall and Jodie's run, they just aren't the loudest/most online portion. Happy viewing! 😊
This episode started well it got me invested with the Doctor being on Gallifrey, seeing the Time Lords back and i thought what we were heading for was the battle between the Doctor and Rassilon which i thought was to be an epic season finale what ruined it was Clara being in the way of it all the struggle i have with the Moffat era is he never keeps his characters dead he mucks with it too much Clara did not need to be in this story.
i suspect the Master critically injured Rassilon when he attacked him in the End of Time pt2 and he regenerated thus explaining the actor swap. I think Dalton wanted to be in this episode but he was busy with other commitments
I first watched this in 2019 and it's been 4 years and I'm still not happy with this finale, especially after how phenomenal heaven sent is. There is much I dislike but the biggest thing is how it handled Clara, I know what they were trying to do and it is interesting to examine the Doctor's mentality throughout but I really feel like she should have remained dead and not galivanting the stars, it really cheapens face the raven and any impact it could have had
My problem with Jodie's doctor is the same I have with Matt, they don't really feel like an immortal being this old. And in my opinion they are both really similar. Overall the plot of her era is not as bad as fans seem to think it is. And I think if she would have played it more Capaldi like, I would have really liked it.
I personally didn't liked this episode at all. After Clara died in Face the raven and Doctors moaning in Heaven sent, they just bring back Clara. It's stupid. I know Clara is technically already dead but my point was that she should not have bought back the way they did. They had story of hybrid and why doctor left the galifry. They should continue with that story instead. It would be more interesting to see more of timeloards. Maybe in order to escape there pocket universe time lords did something that ties back to hybrid and why doctor left. (in confession dail doctor did confessed that he left galifry because he was scared to hybrid. Since it's a confession dial, doctor must have told truth). New who don't do too much with other time lords (understandably because they are all gone). This episode was perfect setup to make story around galifry and other time lords and they workings.
You really should not take any notice of a small group of vociferous so called fans who want to decide for everyone what we should like or not. I really enjoyed Jodi's run and the changes made which were needed. Most people enjoy this show and dont bother making a big fuss. This is always a tail wagging a dog you should make your own mind up.
Capaldi's seasons are confusing for me. I really disagreed with Dr. Who by this point and came to dislike his two companies, yet Capaldi was never the issue. I like the 12th Doctor quite a lot but I wish he could've stood alone (with good writing (not that his seasons doesn't have highlights)). The Husbands of River Song is really good and it cemented for me that I really did like Capaldi as the Dr. outside of the poor writing and spotlight set companions. Sadly the tenth series did not pull me in; I loved certain aspects outside of the main overarching plot but not the rest of it. I hope you continue to find enjoyment in what's presented. I do enjoy your deep analysis - your very thorough and thus you stand happily apart to other react channels.
Glad to hear the analysis is appreciated :) Unfortunately my DW vids never really garnered the same interest as other DW vids, and that's been a bummer, but I'm glad there's a small segment that can appreciate my approach.
@@_FILMBuFF_ It sucks that your DW videos don't generate a lot of views like your other videos because I think it deserves it. I know myself and many others really appreciate your reaction and the in-depth discussion. I truly think you have the best reaction/discussion for Doctor Who, so keep up the great work man!
Not a fan on this episode honestly, feels like it attempts to do one too many things and does none of them particularly well; they scuff Gallifrey's return, Clara's ending feels like a borderline fan fiction and severely reduces the impact of her departure in Face the Raven, they try to take the 'Doctor breaks all his own rules angle' and it's largely played off as a joke with the man flu joke. I feel like the Waters of Mars is a much stronger depiction of the desperate Time Lord than Hellbent, which is a shame considering what a masterpiece Heaven Sent is.
It has been some time since this episode has come out and the “rose colored glasses” of that time has begun. The truth is and was. This episode was not “divisive”…. That is the lie people now tell themselves. Look at the year this episode came out and who was about to be elected in England and the US. Now check out the power of the characters “Me”, Clara, the Sister’s of Karn and Rasillion…. add in the fact, it is now canon that Timellord’s can not only change genders, but also race. That is why it is divisive…. if you have any doubts, just ask the person who comments the did not like it at first….. “to timestamp from actual episodes scenes or interactions that highlight their argument”…. you will only get the nebulously repeated prose of “the writing”….. When this episode came out, it showed how ugly we were about to become. It shows what happens to a group, when they feel threatened “others” are coming to play with their toys
I don't have a problem with Timelords changing gender/race I have a problem with the moment that Timelord turned into a Black Woman, she instantly talk shit about her previous male incarnation.
@@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829 the problem there is that the Timelord (I forgot the name? War General?) Was never shown to be sexist or "full of testosterone" But that was exactly the first scene they talk about when turning in a black woman I mean he even let himself get shot by 12th without putting much of a defense
@@Hanmacx this person you are speaking of worked for the same person in the 10th Doctor's final episode. He told a women to shut up and tried to replace Earth with Galifray. There is a reason in the Doctor led the coup against what the War General was part of. New General was/is right, we are just not used to someone who looks like that saying it
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I know the episode is divisive but it's always been a personal favorite. I'm a sucker for character development over plot and this felt like it chucked a lot of potential boring plot stuff and just focused on giving 12 and Clara lots of good moments together. And have Capaldi and Coleman another excuse to show off their acting chops.
I agree. When I first watched this episode, I didn't like it as much. On rewatches though, I have a new appreciation for the episode. This episode is more of a character study, maybe something I couldn't appreciate when it first aired, but now I'm all in cause it's done very well.
@@AirPokemonNaruto22 Yeah I love it more each time I watch it, definitely an episode and series that works better and better the more you watch.
I sort of understand why people don't like it, it's just a load of conversations in rooms, but the conversations are great and the rooms aren't too shabby either. As for it not being enough about Gallifrey as people expected, I can't relate, the opening Gallifrey stuff it tip top, and love the character stuff with the Doctor and Clara.
I've never heard anyone complain about this being full of conversations. The not-enough-Gallifrey complaint is definitely one I heard a lot, though. Or, rather, that Clara's resurrection hijacked what should have been a story all about the Doctor returning to Gallifrey and Gallifrey returning to the Universe. Since 2005 there haven't been any other Time Lords except the Master. The Doctor being the last of his species was brought up repeatedly. Also, in both _The End of Time_ and _The Time of the Doctor,_ the idea that the Time Lords might return was a huge threat. Now they're back, so shouldn't that have a massive effect on the whole Universe? This episode sweeps all that under the rug for more 12+Clara moments.
The show has never been concerned with that level of lore over character and I'm glad it didn't start here!
Besides : "Gallifrey is currently positioned at the extreme end of the time continuum, for its own protection. We're at the end of the universe, give or take a star system."
@@SeanS102 That quote is exactly the rug-sweeping I was referring to. I’m not saying that’s bad or that the episode is bad. But I can definitely understand why, after the final scene of Heaven Sent, some people expected this episode to be all about Gallifrey and were then disappointed when it wasn’t.
@@theadamabrams sure, but I think the lack of willingness people display in having their expectations subverted is concerning, I like a story going in directions I didn't expect (although to this day am still baffled people thought Clara would never return after FTR, Hell Bent for me has never been an enormous rug pull for me), also I think the Gallifrey stuff in this is actually pretty excellent, even if it doesn't give you a comprehensive sci-fi answer to how the planet technically returned to the universe.
@@SeanS102 Expectations subverted is only a good thing if what subverts them is better. The reason why this episode gets a mixed reaction is because Clara over shadows the Doctor and simply put she isn't that special or important. The return of the Time Lords and the Doctor is ultimately just... more important and it isn't given enough plot. Plus Clara is always lecturing the Doctor, she doesn't even thank him for saving her. Its just... Gallifrey comes back and its sort of whatever trololol lets give Clara a tardis. The best moments in Doctor who are when the Doctor stops being silly guy and turns into Mr Epic and you see the reason he is a legend, this episode sort of puts him on the back burner. Same with the Save the Moon episode and so on, Capaldi is a great doctor when they let him, but a lot of his adventures with Clara revolve around giving her the spot light and she can't carry it.
Perfect ending for clara. She was becoming like the doctor, so it suits her perfectly to run away in a Tardis to have her own adventures before facing her raven once more. I also really love the morroring of the two in every aspect. Last series Clara raged over her loss of Danny and wanted to be owed, the doctor felt let dowb by her attitude. But, here the doctor experiences exactly the same thing, with clara taking the role of being disdapointed in him. Their story over two series is really fantastic for me.
Yeah the arc works a lot better when you see how Series 9 (and 8) is about Clara becoming the Doctor and how far 12 goes when he fears losing her (every story in S9 separates them in part 1 and is about how far 12 goes to get her back, Face the Raven/Heaven Sent/Hell Bent naturally follows that same formula), and that her "death" is more of a regeneration for her (notice how she stands in the same pose as the Doctor does when he regenerates in NuWho), and now she has a new life, a TARDIS, a companion and can have adventures for as long as she wants.
@@lucasdolding6924 thanks for that insight. I never noticed that detail before. Her death in face the raven really signposts what's about to happen to her.
I'm seeing a lot of negativity in the comments about series 10 which is honestly surprising. Series 10 is my favourite Capaldi series which established Capaldi as my favourite Doctor. It also has my favourite companion setup for Capaldi and most importantly my favourite New Who finale.
To comment on this episode I remember hating it when it aired though I feel i have softened over time.
An interesting detail from Moffat on this episode and the previous. Compare the Clara in this episode to the Clara in Capaldi's head in the previous episode. In the previous episode, "head Clara" continuously told Capaldi to keep going with his billion year self imposed punishment while in this episode the "real Clara" was horrified.
“Get off my planet…” That is what I call a badass line, whoooo!
Im so surprised you don't get more views! Your in depth analysis of every episode is so appreciated by myself as someone who loves the show and has watched these episodes multiple times you unlayer things i had never realised and end up giving me a whole new perspective.
I think once you react to the 60th anniversary in real time you will reach a bigger audience and hopefully they will go back and watch your old doctor who vids!
Can i ask what is your profession outside of RUclips because you absolutely should be a professional film/TV critic!
His channel is still being pushed! I had it recommended and binged them all in the past month or two
I actually this episode a lot. I love that Clara gets a chance to cheat death for a while, but that it needs to be away from the Doctor, and that he's the one to deal with the consequences. I don't feel that it takes away from her choice to die, or why she'd done it, she just gets something that's not really life, not entirely free. At the very least, it's much better than Rose saying she died when she didn't, and then even finding a way back from a universe when it was meant to be impossible. I'm OK with this.
Or is it the same diner? Timely Whimely Clara brought her stuck in diner mode Tardis to that point in time when Any, Rory, River Song and the 11tth Doctor were all at Lake Silencio.
Rassilon was not recast - he regenerated.
And in the next episode the Doctor gets to do things he never knew he always wanted to do.
For what it's worth, they wanted Dalton back for Rassilon, but scheduling didn't work out.
Capaldi was my favourite doctor and I can remember as far back as Jon Pertwee in the 1970s
Just realized what your next episode is. Oh boy.
I just love how the amount of time he spent in the confession dial is roughly how old the earth is
Great reaction and analysis as usual!
Hell Bent had tough competition coming after the brilliance of Heaven Sent, and I have a couple nit-picks with the episode - but I don't think it deserves to be quite so divisive, and I'm glad it seems to have had some reappraisal over the years.
There is some confusion surrounding the hybrid arc, and it's build-up wasn't necessarily the best, but we do get a fairly definitive answer here in it being the destructive lengths of Twelve and Clara's friendship. It feels like Moffat was trying to do something a little meta with the 'mystery namedrop' formula, by having it suggest some big foe at the end to distract from the answer being in front of us for most of the series, but it does backfire a little in execution.
The expectation of a finale about Gallifrey is somewhat understandable given the build-up, but the context with which the Doctor gets there explains why it's all beneath him. We still get some interesting exploration of the Doctor's attachments and conflicts with Gallifrey, it's just not going to be the focus after the previous two episodes established a character-centric conclusion.
Some take issue with the Doctors out of character moments in this episode, but that is kind of the point? We're being shown the Doctor breaking his own rules, pushed too far by grief and the complicated bond he had with Clara, for which the episode depicts him as in the wrong too.
In regards to Clara's death, there certainly is an argument to be made that her fate here cheapens it. Personally I think the tragedy of her death still stands, but Doctor Who has and always will have a sense of magic and hope to balance out it's darker and sadder elements. Across this arc we've seen Clara becoming more and more like the Doctor, and she ultimately pays the price for her risky behaviour - but the Doctor is meant to be a role model and force for good, so should aspiring to be like him really end in punishment? The 'wiggle room' she has before returning to her death is a bit of a reward in a sense, one last chance to see the beauty of the universe because she knows her time is up and can really appreciate it (we don't know how long her and Me travel for, but I don't think it's something Clara would take for granted). And in doing this, Clara does live up to the Doctor! She died bravely, upholding her morals and for the good of others, but is reborn and gets to travel for a time with her own Tardis and a companion too. Such a great parallel.
It wasnt a set, Eddie's is an actual 50's America themed diner in Cardiff.
I believe I read somewhere that they wanted Timothy Dalton but that he was unavailable so they had to use someone else. Recasting works quite well when dealing with Time Lords though haha.
Also, you probably know this but there are two x-mas specials between series 9 and 10. Just incase you were to miss one of them.
Also also, the 60th is set after Jodie’s run, so no one knows yet how much it will reference her era or not.
for me the best of the show. probably the episode i get the most out of on rewatches. i think it would have been a disservice to clara's arc to not end it this way. would have been another reaffirmation of the doctor being "better" than the companion such as donna's exit. in a way this is the opposite of journey's end in more ways than one. this episode absolutely undoes face the raven but i think it needed to. its clara's regeneration. the doctor does it every 1-3 series. without it we again just say the doctor is better know your place.
Oh I love this episode. And i had the great great good fortune to have visited and eaten in the diner. (Was in Cardiff - I think i heard it's sadly no longer there.)
had a photoshoot and autopgraph of clara in brussels so dang lucky
I love this episode! Clara always wanted the Doctor to be a Doctor. She wanted him to be good. So emotional.
The ending makes an amazing metaphor. Crossing paths but never being together. So powerful.
"The first thing you notice about the Doctor of War is that he's unarmed. For many, it's also the last." I love these little hints we get that the Doctor became something almost mythical in the war.
Not to be morbid, but the fucked up thing no one ever mentions is that Clara's father lost his wife very early on, raised Clara as a single father, and then (since it's a fixed point no matter how long "the long way round" ends up being), his daughter was found dead one day in an alleyway in London. Yikes, haha.
I didn't realise you were going to pause after Peter's run, but I'm not devastated by that. There are some good moments ahead but if I could do it all again, I might wish to also miss it out. There's some story lines I am really quite vehemently against.
I kind of feel like I could really enjoy a spin-off show "Clara and Me" with the two of them zooming around space and time in that diner...depending on the stories, and the directing, could be a lot of fun.,..
This episode is considered to be divisive in the Doctor Who fandom. I'll admit, I was one of those people who was disappointed with the episode when it first aired. I still have some issues with the episode, but on rewatches, I've had more appreciation for it. There are so many great character moments in this episode! Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman are so incredible together, like the chemistry between the two of them is so good. After rewatching the episode, I can understand why people consider Capaldi and Coleman to be best Doctor/Companion team.
I think my main issue with the episode is still Me. I've never been fond of that character unfortunately. I have a couple of minor issues here and there, but overall though, I am a fan of this episode now! Also once again, just like the rest of Series 9, the production value for this episode is too good. Rachel Talalay is probably the best director to have worked on the show.
*Made an edit to my comment. The video originally had a masterpiece tagline on the video and I made a comment about that, but FilmBuff said it was an accident.*
lol that was accidental, I was supposed to delete the masterpiece bit. I usually copy and paste the titles from the past episode, and then change the title.
@@_FILMBuFF_ Oh haha no worries! I'll edit my comment so people don't feel confused.
T'Nia Miller (the actor that The General regenerated into) is such a great actor, I really wanted her to be the Doctor after Capaldi and then again after Jodie. I don't know what you're familiar with her with, but check out Years and Years, Haunting of Bly Manor and The Fall of the House of Usher (which just came out) for the best of her.
I can't get enough of Capaldi's anger
I like the episode. I do understand why people don't though. I think one of the main reasons is that ever since the end of Day of the Doctor there has been the possibility/hope/expectation that the Doctor will return to Gallifrey. That will be a big deal! Then, at the end of Heaven Sent, it looks like the show is finally about to deliver. However, in Hell Bent we do see Gallifrey but, as you say, the focus is not actually on Gallifrey but Clara. A lot of people are disappointed by that and I get it. Also, personally, although I do like Clara (and think Jenna Coleman is great) I was more than ready to see her go by the time of Face the Raven and I felt that was a good ending. However, ever since Capaldi began, it felt like she or Moffat couldn't decide whether and when she was leaving. It looked like she was leaving at the end of Deep Breath. Then during Mummy on the Orient Express. Then it was at the end of Death in Heaven. Then when she was old in Last Christmas. I felt "Just go already!" I think Moffat almost falls in love with the female characters he creates, especially River and Clara and the risk is that there is too much focus on them and they are too amazing. (He avoided that trap with River, because she would only pop up from time to time and I LOVE Alex Kingston as River.) That said, I do enjoy this episode and it gets more hat than it deserves.
I've always been a fan of this episode.
I think the "problem" with this episode is that nothing could ever possibly follow Heaven Sent. It was always going to feel like a step down and it does, but it improved on rewatches for me. I'm looking forward to Season 10, it gets my vote for best season finale so far!
The only real issue I have with it is Gallifrey and Rasillon. It was an issue in series 4 too but Rasillon is completely different to his character from Classic Who and it just feels odd.
And gallifrey, this is the first time Gallifrey has ever been properly back in New Who. It's always previously been destroyed or missing etc. but now it's here! And the doctor is going up against his own people! But then Gallifrey is shoved to the side and forgotten about so Clara can break up with the Doctor for the fourth time lol (I'm joking, I really like this send off for Clara.)
I quite like this episode, personally. Maybe not everything, but the Doctor trying to save her and the conversations they have around that were great. Didn't love Clara and Me being out there wandering and would have preferred if she just went back to the raven, but oh well. And I'm excited for next season! I quite liked season 10. Season 11 and on though.. I didn't like at all. And it has nothing to do with Jodie or the fact the Doctor turned into a woman. I was excited for the Doctor to be a woman actually, because it seemed like it could be an interesting change and hey, I'm a woman too. But *in my opinion* it didn't feel like Doctor Who after season 10 to me anymore. Again, nothing to do with Jodie being the Doctor. It was the writing I didn't enjoy anymore, personally.
There are a lot of people who get upset at others for not enjoying her run and plenty of them try and blame "misogyny", when for many people it just didn't feel like the same thing anymore and had nothing to do with who was playing the Doctor. It was the writing (and I don't want to go into specifics because.. spoilers). It's like how some people constantly blame racism if a lot of people don't like certain movies or shows when it's entirely possible to just not like something because of the writing, and *constantly* calling everyone who dislikes something racist or misogynist because they have a different opinion is getting ridiculous and becoming a huge cop-out to not even bother looking into the actual reasons why people don't like something.. It's a lazy accusation. There obviously are people who are racist and misogynist, but those people are a minority in most cases when *a lot* of people don't like a show or movie or seasons of a show.
I will say Jodie's era is one that has a lot of hatred towards it. It's not my favourite era, but I do love the change it brings. Excited for when you get to it, each of her series' are so different from each other and there are a lot of highs as well
I can't wait for the next episode. It's my favourite Christmas special❤😄
I love Jodie as the Doctor. She is amazing!! She is funny and clever.... she is the Doctor.
Sadly lots of the stories in her episodes weren't that good, with few exceptions like Spyfall and Rosa.
At first I didn’t really like Clara as a companion (during the Matt Smith era). When 11th Doctor became 12th Doctor... I didn't like Peter Capaldi as the Doctor. During this time I was watching Doctor who from TV in real time as the episodes were aired. (Though I wasn't watching regularly so I alwayd missed a few episodes here and there) I stopped watching for a few years. Then I noticed Netflix had Doctor who Episodes from the 5th series (the beginning of 11th Doctor's era) to 10th.
I watched it again and this time I also watched Peter Cabaldi's era and I loved it. Now he is perhaps my favourite Doctor. I also grew to like Clara. This duo was amazing.
My favourite quote from this episode is from Me:
"She died for who she was and for whom she loved"
Thank you!!
Scotch is a drink. Peter's a Scotsman.
And the launch of HMS Space Girlfriends.
The time lords did killed her. HE is a time lord. His punishment was the 4.5 billion years
I am not sure what you mean by people disliking Clara although I wouldn't know anyway watching this almost 10 years after her last appearance. I think she's the best companion, perhaps too good of a companion because she matches the Doctor's enthusiasm, after Danny's death it felt to me she became even more unhinged though and it was a mistake for the Doctor to act as if nothing happened at all and to continue travelling with her but maybe her death was inevitable. Jenna Coleman did an amazing job though, her and Capaldi have an amazing dynamic.
I think where this episode dropped the ball is that it first makes you think Gallifrey is important when it's not. It just doesn't matter. The moment we see Clara is the moment Gallifrey goes out the picture and that plot is just dropped. It seems a common pattern that Gallifrey is written poorly and in my opinion should have been left alone maybe. It was written best in Day of the Doctor where it actually had a purpose, most everywhere else it's just used to screw around.
Capaldi's run though just feels unique to me, maybe because it's more modern than the others, but it's also him that brings gravitas to the character, just like you see in the beginning he doesn't need words to act, he looks around that shed and he remembers.
There's a kind of feeling you get with certain series or movies like Lord of the Rings, that's how I feel about Capaldi's run, it just feels different, in a good way
Despite this finale not being great, overall I really like Series 9.
Capaldi and Coleman give their best performances in this season (imo) which helped push the dynamic between Clara and Twelve to another level. The *look* of the whole season is still my favourite to this day, and there really are some amazing stories here (Magicians Apprentice/Witches Familiar, Under the Lake/Before the Flood, Girl Who Died, Heaven Sent) and it gave us some all-time great scenes.
I thought about a possible spin-off for Clara and Me (Ashilda)
But I don't think you can make much of a story with two main character that is technically Immortal 🤔
Technically they didn’t recast Timothy Dalton, they regenerated him after the Master killed him in The End of Time part 2
my head cannon; clara is the one who knocked four times on the TARDIS door, staying with 'ME' until the end of time.
Well you made it to the end of my personal run🎉. I wasn't a fan of the next season, peter was great but i felt the writing was poor more than not, although it does have a handful of good moments and definitely picks up nearer the end of it. And the season after that was my last, i didn't grow out of it, i just wasn't Chibnals targeted audience🤷🏿♂️. I hope you enjoy Who going forward though.
I'm glad that you are considering watching Jodie's era!
I really hope you do react to Jodies seasons, its not perfect but I enjoyed her later seasons a lot
As of today, I'm still confused as to how I feel about this episode. There's so many things about it that I just don't like. But the character element is great, although IMO goes too overboard (especially Clara travelling the universe with Me in an American diner!!). I think it would've been a lot better if Clara just went straight back to her death at the end, as it wouldn't have taken too much away from that beautiful ending in FTR, and Clara herself keeps repeating how that was her choice, her ending, and that it shouldn't be taken away from her. I do wonder if this all could've still been achieved without the Timelords coming into it. I am of the opinion that if you're finally bringing the Timelords back, which at this point has probably become the single biggest plot-point in the show, that it deserves it's own dedicated attention. Surely Moffat must've known that this would be divisive? He obviously just didn't care, but tbf it's his right as showrunner to do what he wants with it. Looking forward to you going onto Series 10 now Im! I've been with you on this journey since the very start! Just please avoid all spoilers for S10! I'm perfectly OK with your decision to break after that. You're right that the consensus of Jodie's run is that **** hits the fan and it's a MASSIVE drop off, because of the writing. But I wpuld SIMPLY LOVE for you to react to 60th specials next month if you can? I really don't think you need to have seen Jodie's run at all to watch them, and if you don't see them soon after, you'll probably get spoiled one way or another.
The reactions that I have seen to this episode online have mainly been positive. Which I think is interesting. People outwith the fandom and the discourse surrounding this episode tend to judge it purely on what it is rather than what it isn't. The "Clara who" line I think was a response to fans who were unhappy at Clara's prominent role in the show. Some comments at the time were "Clara should've stayed dead, she thought she could be like the doctor and her stupidity killed her and instead she gets rewarded with her own tardis, you get the jist. Did Clara deserve to die for wanting to be like the doctor? Shouldn't we aspire to be like our role models? Whatever you think of this episode and there are very differing opinions on it, Im glad that they did something different with it. In a way it was trying to pave the way for the first female doctor. Unfortunately regarding the discourse, it was just the shape of things to come.
There is no ooomph to Clara dying if they bring her back two episodes later.
Just wanted to pop into the comments to vouch for Jodie's era. I've only just started watching your reactions so i'm not sure what you've said about the opinions you've heard, or what sorts of episodes you are really drawn towards - i look forward to watching more and finding out :)
The amount of hate thrown at Jodie's era is outragious in relation to the actual quality of the era. It has just as much variety and peak/troughs in writing as the rest of NuWho. The only real difference is that it's a completely different tone than Moffat (which as someone who was exhausted after 6 series of Moffat, was a breath of fresh air). No more drastic than the switch between RtD and Moffat though.
The problem is that the online campaign against the era was SO vicious, and even now saying positive things about it online anywhere can get you so much grief that a lot of people don't bother putting themselves out there and risking the blow back. I know some reactors that were watching in real time didn't even film their reactions to the run because the comments sections on their vids got so horrible.
I hope you do give it a go and try to appproach it with an open mind. I've seen a lot of people say 'I heard a this era was awful and i keep waiting to start hating it and i just...don't, and am having a good time.'
Sorry for the length of this! I just wanted to provide an alternative take on Thirteen's era. Plenty of the fanbase really enjoy Chibnall and Jodie's run, they just aren't the loudest/most online portion.
Happy viewing! 😊
This episode started well it got me invested with the Doctor being on Gallifrey, seeing the Time Lords back and i thought what we were heading for was the battle between the Doctor and Rassilon which i thought was to be an epic season finale what ruined it was Clara being in the way of it all the struggle i have with the Moffat era is he never keeps his characters dead he mucks with it too much Clara did not need to be in this story.
i suspect the Master critically injured Rassilon when he attacked him in the End of Time pt2 and he regenerated thus explaining the actor swap. I think Dalton wanted to be in this episode but he was busy with other commitments
I first watched this in 2019 and it's been 4 years and I'm still not happy with this finale, especially after how phenomenal heaven sent is. There is much I dislike but the biggest thing is how it handled Clara, I know what they were trying to do and it is interesting to examine the Doctor's mentality throughout but I really feel like she should have remained dead and not galivanting the stars, it really cheapens face the raven and any impact it could have had
My problem with Jodie's doctor is the same I have with Matt, they don't really feel like an immortal being this old. And in my opinion they are both really similar.
Overall the plot of her era is not as bad as fans seem to think it is. And I think if she would have played it more Capaldi like, I would have really liked it.
Please can you go back to being on screen when you do the review
Lol, nice spoilers again for the Who fans who haven't seen the series past this one :)
I personally didn't liked this episode at all. After Clara died in Face the raven and Doctors moaning in Heaven sent, they just bring back Clara. It's stupid. I know Clara is technically already dead but my point was that she should not have bought back the way they did. They had story of hybrid and why doctor left the galifry. They should continue with that story instead. It would be more interesting to see more of timeloards. Maybe in order to escape there pocket universe time lords did something that ties back to hybrid and why doctor left. (in confession dail doctor did confessed that he left galifry because he was scared to hybrid. Since it's a confession dial, doctor must have told truth). New who don't do too much with other time lords (understandably because they are all gone). This episode was perfect setup to make story around galifry and other time lords and they workings.
You really should not take any notice of a small group of vociferous so called fans who want to decide for everyone what we should like or not. I really enjoyed Jodi's run and the changes made which were needed. Most people enjoy this show and dont bother making a big fuss. This is always a tail wagging a dog you should make your own mind up.
Capaldi's seasons are confusing for me. I really disagreed with Dr. Who by this point and came to dislike his two companies, yet Capaldi was never the issue. I like the 12th Doctor quite a lot but I wish he could've stood alone (with good writing (not that his seasons doesn't have highlights)). The Husbands of River Song is really good and it cemented for me that I really did like Capaldi as the Dr. outside of the poor writing and spotlight set companions. Sadly the tenth series did not pull me in; I loved certain aspects outside of the main overarching plot but not the rest of it. I hope you continue to find enjoyment in what's presented. I do enjoy your deep analysis - your very thorough and thus you stand happily apart to other react channels.
the writing is actually very very good in my opinion
@@SeanS102 yes, in your opinion. In mine it is not.
Glad to hear the analysis is appreciated :) Unfortunately my DW vids never really garnered the same interest as other DW vids, and that's been a bummer, but I'm glad there's a small segment that can appreciate my approach.
@@_FILMBuFF_ It sucks that your DW videos don't generate a lot of views like your other videos because I think it deserves it. I know myself and many others really appreciate your reaction and the in-depth discussion. I truly think you have the best reaction/discussion for Doctor Who, so keep up the great work man!
@@AirPokemonNaruto22100%
Not a fan on this episode honestly, feels like it attempts to do one too many things and does none of them particularly well; they scuff Gallifrey's return, Clara's ending feels like a borderline fan fiction and severely reduces the impact of her departure in Face the Raven, they try to take the 'Doctor breaks all his own rules angle' and it's largely played off as a joke with the man flu joke.
I feel like the Waters of Mars is a much stronger depiction of the desperate Time Lord than Hellbent, which is a shame considering what a masterpiece Heaven Sent is.
Last good episode of doctor who, shame!
Husbands of River Song, Twice Upon a Time are both great episodes.
Plenty of great episodes after this. I'm sad for you that you didn't enjoy them.
crazy to say this when world enough and time exists
It has been some time since this episode has come out and the “rose colored glasses” of that time has begun.
The truth is and was.
This episode was not “divisive”…. That is the lie people now tell themselves.
Look at the year this episode came out and who was about to be elected in England and the US.
Now check out the power of the characters “Me”, Clara, the Sister’s of Karn and Rasillion…. add in the fact, it is now canon that Timellord’s can not only change genders, but also race.
That is why it is divisive…. if you have any doubts, just ask the person who comments the did not like it at first….. “to timestamp from actual episodes scenes or interactions that highlight their argument”…. you will only get the nebulously repeated prose of “the writing”…..
When this episode came out, it showed how ugly we were about to become.
It shows what happens to a group, when they feel threatened “others” are coming to play with their toys
I don't have a problem with Timelords changing gender/race
I have a problem with the moment that Timelord turned into a Black Woman, she instantly talk shit about her previous male incarnation.
@@Hanmacx thank you for being an example of my original comment.
@@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829 the problem there is that the Timelord (I forgot the name? War General?) Was never shown to be sexist or "full of testosterone"
But that was exactly the first scene they talk about when turning in a black woman
I mean he even let himself get shot by 12th without putting much of a defense
@@Hanmacx this person you are speaking of worked for the same person in the 10th Doctor's final episode.
He told a women to shut up and tried to replace Earth with Galifray.
There is a reason in the Doctor led the coup against what the War General was part of.
New General was/is right, we are just not used to someone who looks like that saying it
@@Hanmacx he didn't put up a fight, because he knew he was wrong and his era had to end.
Just like the response of the War Doctor....