I agree with most people here that Ser Criston is being more honor oriented instead of love-oriented, but him expecting Raenyra to give up the throne so he can marry her and redeem himself is an absolute long shot. So asking that question to begin with to me is ridiculous. Then for the wedding feast, him breaking is a good plot point, it's just underdeveloped and the creators decided to make the scene intentionally confusing on top of that. Not to mention some random plot holes being tied to that sequence.
But it's been setup that Rhaenyra doesn't care much for duty(smashing the kingsguard besides being the heir to the iron throne)...she is always whining about being forced into marriage and it's logical that from his p.o.v Rhaenyra doesn't care much for the crown...fleeing to Essos would be a win for all of them...and even if it's a longshot, the way Rhaenyra turns him down was cold...at that moment it hit him that she never really saw him as more than a whore, a sex toy, a low born who isn't worthy of her...this is truly beautiful writing
I mean... of course the question was ridiculous and idiotic. He's clearly a broken mess because he hurt his little man's ego by going to bed with Rhaenyra. That was the whole point from what I understood, no one believed she would give up her position for him, she says it herself. As for the wedding brawl, it seems that the show isn't taking sides on a few plot points intentionally to make the conflict between the greens and the blacks more of a grey area. If that's a positive or a negative, I suppose we'll only discover by the end of the season.
He already considers himself a dead man. Last episode, he should have said no, but because he didn't, he basically cannot live with himself. His last hope of redeeming himself in his own mind is that both of them "fuck duty" and head out, but he knows that's not going to happen, but he hopes that it could. Then, he really just wants to be dead at this point, so he confesses to Alicent and asks to be killed. And then he freaks the fuck out and kills Joffrey cuz of the taunting (probably cuz of the sword tap). And then, already wanting to be dead, he decides to do it himself. But then Alicent, smart cookie looking for allies she is, follows him to the Godswood. That's my read, I thought this episode was geniusly done, Rains of Castamere levels, that might just be me tho.
I think it was more about honor for Criston than Rhaenyra honestly. He’s heartbroken because he’ll never restore the honor to his name, not because she won’t just run away. Once Laenor’s lover confronts him and implies he might be stuck in the position he’s in, he snaps. Criston worked his entire life from nothing to where he is, just to throw it away with no ability to regain what was once lost. He might’ve loved her, sure, but I’m fairly certain he just snapped from his honor being taken away.
It's that mixed with realizing that Rhaenyra thinks little of him and asked him to be her secret lover She can't empathise with him in that way and neither does he understand that Rhaenyra also has duty and honor to uphold
Yeah, and I think him proposing marriage to her was his way of restoring honor in some type of way. Some of it was built on romantic feelings, but I believe that for the most part he wanted to do that to relieve his guilt.
Criston Cole didn't have this downfall because of his love to Rhaenyra, it's because he's starting to question his honor.. he's always been a guy of morals, he considers his white cloak the highest honor he's ever received and so soiling it made him into the unstable mess he's become. And btw, I love what they have done to his character.. in the books, it's unclear why he had this sudden change of heart when he joined the greens. But now it's pretty clear and it makes more sense that he would abandon Rhaenyra for the greens.
Yes I love it. He has been held in high regard because he is the only Knight that has seen combat. He holds his honor in high regard. When he soils that, he feels he has nothing left but love for Rhaenyra. It feels childish because this is during peace times. These people don't hav a harsh world to counterbalance this with. It feels major because this is the most major thing that has happened to them. The show is doing the superbly.
@@XSCSCGS as in the actresses that will replace rhaenyra and alicent from next episode forward as there is a time jump. They were cast first as for the majority of the series it will be them playing rhaenyra and alicent and then they casted younger versions for episode 1-6
While Criston’s tropy “let’s run away together” shtick might seem simple/unoriginal, I think regarding the character it makes sense. Criston is a knight in the Middle Ages whose grown up on stories of bravery and romantic ideals of chivalry and courtly romance. To him, the suggestion of running off together like that just makes sense as the honorable and noble thing to do. Ofcourse it’s fucking absurd by our modern conceptions of relationships, but to him it’s totally valid.
Also, he knows how much Rhaenyra does not wish for an arranged marriage, and he knows how reluctant she is to embrace her position as heir. So I feel it makes sense for Criston to expect Rhaenyra to want to run away with him.
I second that. From Criston's point of view, he believes Rhaenyra hates her duties and position and would rather be anywhere else. He completely underestimated how truly ambitious she is for the iron throne and power.
Criston from his first scene seems to embody the traditional archetype of a gallant chivalrous heroic knight. He’s too good and pure for Westeros, which is why he’s a perfect character to be put in there to see how he manages. Also judging by GoT’s scenes with Renly and Loras there seems to be a Stormlands/Reach culture that’s very sheltered and revels in ideals of chivalry and doesn’t fare too good when placed next to the grim realities of the cutthroat real world.
@GJ I know that the world of ice and fire is brutally cynical and love stories end terribly. I’m saying that There are still many romantic *stories* and notions fed to people in spite of that. Criston doubtlessly grew up in those stories and would’ve been influenced by them in the same way many children are influenced by the stories of their youth. He’s trying to live up to the romantic ideals of chivalry as a knight of the kingsguard, but once his vow of chastity is broken he tries to live out another romantic ideal- that of the star crossed lovers leaving everything behind and defying social norms and conventions to live and love together.
Criston's confession was the first sign of his suicidality. Naturally Alicent would be aware of this, so it's no surprise when at end she follows him and intervenes. It wasn't a matter of timing.
Ser Criston mistakenly thought HotD was about him. It was once, my guy have several seats! Ser Criston doesn't/didn't love Rhaenyra (he was fond of her at best) he was offering her an out to save *HIS* honor. It had nothing to do with her.
@@adamlahlou7907 right! I got the sense from the moment she chose him as her protector that she at least was attracted to him. Over the years she may have confided in him that she loathed her position but she never once seemed to wanna give it up yet Ser Criston decided to manipulate her words to try to get his honor back. It's self-serving.
@@rahbeeuh you are tripping, accountability is woman's kryptonite, he just didn't want to get killed like any sentient being would, and was just a toy for Rhaenyra. when she is for the street she doesn't deserve protection.
@@hailberseker5387 what are you on about? Ser Criston was just as much guilty of the situation as Rhaenyra. He just made the offer about him. It had nothing to do with her. Even his marriage proposal wasn't about love it was about restoring his honor.
I loved the music during Alicent’s entrance, Ramin Djawadi always creates individual themes for each character, and to me this moment signifies Alicent finally coming into her own as true player in this game of thrones.
I think Criston’s outburst doesn’t have anything to do with his feelings for Rhaenyra. Even when they’re on the boat discussing the prospect of running away he talks about it as a way to “restore his honor,” and talks about soiling his white cloak which is “the only thing I have to my fucking name.” We already know he’s an honor driven character and has spent his whole life trying to be the most honorable he can be so when Rhae rejects him his only chance to restore his honor is gone. He tries to restore it by telling Alicent what he did and then asking to be executed but Alicent just lets him go. So now he has the pressure of Alicent knowing his secret and as we all know ppl with honor don’t play “the game” very well. So when Ser Joffrey figures out his secret he cracks and just murders him. Now that he’s soiled his cloak and murdered an innocent any shred of honor he once had is gone and everything he worked his life up to is gone. Anyone else in the situation would probably try to kill themselves too Also I think the no helmet thing has more to do with him being easy to see for the audience. Ser Harold also doesn’t wear a helmet I’m pretty sure
If his honour was so important to him he shouldnt have banged her to begin with and then telling her to give everything up so he can get his honour back what a clown of a man
I believe he’s under the protection of Alicent so he might have gotten away with this one especially with a lot of the audience not in favour of Rhaenarya becoming queen and in support of Alicent’s son (i.e the lannisters) so maybe no one would testify against him anyways though i agree it was a bit confusing why he had no helmet but in the books it’s left confused why Ser Criston switched to the Greens and the lovestruck and instant decline is clearly why he was so upset and not cared for Rhanaenary having even leave their conversation without any reprimands
One problem with that it may have worked in the books but not how they did it in the show. He punched laenor in the face. Killing joffery is one thing attacking the prince consort is something completely different there's no way alicent could justify that .
How is literally everybody not suspecting the littlefinger in this story Larys has been snooping around feeding information and overall sitting in the background quietly You can't just do that as the youngest son of the kings hand He told alicent about the moon juice and hes shown some decent baelish skills I've learned to watch out for characters with a crutch (literall in his case) They always tend to be the the last to survive
in the scene where cole suggests his idea, he starts with that rheanyra has "confided in me now and then over the years of our acquaintance". seems to me they had that they have build a pretty personal relationship, and cole knows she is about to marry someone else so in his mind this might be his only shot to marry her. also he is probably fearing his life as he knows once his actions gets discovered he will probably die for them.
His reaction was believable for me. This woman gave him and his family name and an honor that no one else could give. He owes everything to her and after their encounter he is even more ensnared. He sacrificed everything he holds dear inside, albeit it certainly comprised his integrity, leaving him desperate to justify his actions with her. The rejection on the boat was the final string holding him together and jophrey pulled that dangling thread where he has nothing left. He is ashamed that this now public knowledge and he was played the fool, time to go out with a bang
Agreed, this only makes it clear that Criston is a horrible, selfish man. Instead of facing consequences for his actions, he made a big ol mess and ran away. Rhaenyra didnt rape him or force him into sex. It was simply passionate love making and Criston the dick went with the flow, knowing it was committing high treason. She and him are not equal. She is free to act however damn well she wishes like, and he had the choice to not commit treason. So Criston "the honorable" thinks with his dick, decides to have sex with the virgin princess. This decision of his clearly breaks his character apart. He murders and ruins the royal wedding of the girl she owes everything to. Whats so stupid is apparently he will eventually betray Rhaenyra because of this incident. HE OWES EVERYTHING TO HER. How in the seven hells is he blaming Rhaenyra for even 1% of this? Cause she seduced him that one night? People here who are saying Rhaenyra is to blame for what happened to Criston think this show takes place in 2025 lmao. Criston went from being a cool character to being the absolute worst, obnoxious prick real fast
It made no sense for Joffery to even tell Criston that he knew he got it on with Rheanyra. Can you imagine Little Finger telling someone inside info he had on them as soon as he found out about it? No way. Joffery telling Criston wasn't really threatening anyway. For him to go insane in front of everyone was not realistic.
Guys remember we're talking about immature Knight-kids from the middle ages. They're acting on emotional impulse without any Emotional Intelligence to guide them. Teenagers DO shit like that.
@@arman9175 ??!!? This is absolutely bullshit and blind hate for the character 💀 Caring for his oath is selfish? Rhaenyra used him she knows his oath and all and yet she thinks he will be just her side boy !(which he could never be) and if not for alicent he would be dead so its totally understandable to be faithful to her, she gives him the second chance.
I think the sequence that explains cole’s flip out is: He punches him cause hes angry repressed and cracked. The people around are treating it like a brawl to watch for entertainment. Then joffrey pulls out the knife and pulling a knife against a kingsguard is enough to get killed. Its very silly how the other kingsguard dont get involved at all esp when Rhaenyra and Laenor are in danger, however they may think kingsguard cole is dealing with the situation himself. But it does feel a bit off.
passage of time was shown through the progression of Viserys's disease... his whole arm is covered now. plus, criston wasn't as head over heels for Rhaenyra as much as he was concerned about his honor.
Lastly the Alicent and Cole scene where he blurts out the truth...makes perfect sense it's truly masterful writing...because from Sir Criston Cole's point of view...he thinks she knows...and why lie when he has nothing left to lose...why not be honest and save whatever scrap of honor he had left...this was a truly beautiful episode... don't know what you're on about
I truly hope I am misreading sarcasm? Alicent knew Rhaenyra snuck out with Daemon. Knew Cole was not present and could not know about that night. But she awkwardly and unnaturally kept stalling the question of whether he knew/saw the siblings sleeping together just so Cole could slip up and reveal himself. That's the most pathetic level of drama writing imaginable, cheapest soap operas do it. This was followed by that insanely random party scene. Finally, when you'd think, okay, at least Cole will end his own life, Alicent ex machina arrives and stops him to use him as future leverage against Rhaenyra. Horrendous writing. No better than season 8. And here I was kind of enjoying the show up until this episode
@@antonois Cole is her sworn protector...if anyone would know what happened that night it would be him...and it's obvious people address sensitive matters in this world by speaking in riddles and implying things...we saw it when Rhaenyra was implying leanor was gay, I mean she is basically accusing the princess, the heir and Daemon Targaryen of adultery...she can't flat out say it my guy...tf are you even saying 😂
@@antonois and Alicent saving ser Criston is the most foolish complaint of this entire video...truly enrages me when something good is shit on by dimwits that can't take a second to think...like Alicent just had a sensitive conversation with ser Criston, she realizes he is probably the only one being honest with her in the whole court and he could be used as a weapon against Rhaenyra, few days later he has a violent outburst in public that could warrant his death, you'd think she would keep an eye on him and want him on her side...sometimes the writer is just smarter than you think big man.
Don't be an apologist. The writing was lacking this episode. Joffrey Lonmouth notices sole kingsguard with no helmet on looking at Rhaenyra == He is having sex with her. what kind of logic is that? They better come up with a good reason why Alicent believes if Rhaenyra takes the throne, she will murder her children, cuz that's the main driver of the dance.
Weird, to me the wedding scene was the highlight of the episode, alicent marching in was fucking badass, and when they started dancing you already knew something was gonna happen. The music was raising the tension beautifully, the feeling of a crammed dance floor and the smalltalk during the dance sequences was really authentic and "alive" to me. Not like in the later seasons of got where the scenes were basically empty. Also the whole ser criston part was fine with me, he clearly holds his honor in high regard and after he failed to save it by running away and even some slimy dude clearly suggests he knows about his secret and threatens him with it he straight up snappes at him To me it was understandable, sorta justified and the camerawork and set design just made the scene amazingly realistic and interesting (Altough the sets and camerawork has been top notch the whole season so far)
I think the reason no Kingsguard member stops Criston is because it happens out of nowhere, and from the quickest jump to conclusions, they see another Kingsguard member fighting a common man holding a knife, watching Harwin carry Rhaenyra out of the room, for all they know they think Joffrey was threatening Rhaenyra and Criston saved her
They dont interfere so the plot can happen, thats why. It is weak writing. The guards are there for that sole purpose, yet take no action. Criston murders a guest at the wedding and faces no consequences. Its bad writing. I want to like the show. I mean I do like it. I hope it isnt a sign of the future.
@@NowhereMan7 No it's not. Cole has always been a good knight so if he does something like this they think he must have a reason. Everyone thinks they know what good writing is because they watched some videos on why season 8 of GOT was bad. Smh
@@NowhereMan7 I kinda agree, criston beating ser joffrey right in the middle of royal wedding in front of king without atleast taken to the cell is kinda plothole; in the book he killed him in melee tourney so it didn't makes any consequences. meanwhile this is royal wedding with king queen and many noble guests. if criston is arrested by other kingsguard after this then get pardoned and under protection from the queen then it makes sense, but him wandering around in weirwood garden like no one gave a shit of him is kinda off. However what matthew proposing is kinda make sense too. it's so ruckus there and everyone know he's rhaenyra personal swornshield and they two are close, I think it's logic if the kingsguard assuming he beaten ser joffrey for the sake of rhaenyra, also they see ser harwyn carrying her to safety. but still, no consequence of his action is kinda plothole, it's a gap in the storyline. How can royal bodyguard killing guest right in front of the whole guests and king queen and not sentenced to death? fired from his position? atleast get arrested for some month and palace hold a trial?
@@DoctorJammer "they think he must have a reason"? Thats my point. They would hold seize him and ask him to explain what his reason was. They dont even do that, its absurd.
Let’s just preface the entire incident by saying that the book’s version of events (naturally) made perfect sense. Killing Joffrey in a tourney melee, while frowned upon, isn’t “wrong.” Beating him to death in the middle of the wedding’s dance floor clearly is.
I actually think - this was the best episode yet (combined with the last one) - a simple masterclass… What I so much adore about this show - nothing is really said, but more shown, a lot of things and character‘s motivations are open to interpretations, e.g. the sex scene between Criston and Rhaenyra (last ep): Methaphorically, his armour was the symbol of his honor and duty, hence the time it took to take it off, Criston was scared and unsure, because all he ever had was being a Kingsguard, a greatest honor any Cole ever had (he said that in ep 3), destroying that and breaking his oath meant breaking the very essence of his being… Once he put his armor on the ground, he stands watching it and contemplating his doings and only then after a clear moment of consideration he let himself to Rhaenyra, which shows a couple of things: A) he clearly does love and respects Rhaenyra - but in his mind, there is a conflict between the duty and the love (goes along with the running theme of GoT „love is the death of duty“ or „duty is the death of love“) B) to him, this little adventure was far more worthy of consideration than it was to Rhaenyra (she didn‘t have any noticeable moments of consideration, in fact, she was probably still feeling the infatuation from the encounter with Daemon minutes/hours before)… and this fact solely, shows us, the viewers, the imbalance of their relationship: Criston gave up the very essence of his being: honor, for that one night, Rhaenyra did not. All this sets perfectly the table for the next (5th) episode: where we see, Criston‘s shame, but also love for Rhaenyra, spiraling out of control - he is guilt ridden, but he also deeply cares about her - so in this moral conudrum, for Criston, there are only two ways out: to run away with Rhaenyra (choose love), or to die (choose honor): Rhaenyra rejects him, so he can‘t choose love, and Allicent after hearing the truth from Criston doesn‘t punish him, so he is left dishonored without facing the consequences and basically emotionally abandonded by Rhaenyra - thus, he is deeply unsatisfied, angry and borderline suicidal… The final push is provided by Joffrey, who basicaly reminds him of him breaking the oath, blackmails him indirectly and kinda mockingly brushes of the whole situation - Criston is probably blinded by his emotions and kills Joffrey… Upon realization, he decides to kill himself - having destroyed everythings he cares for - his honor and his relationship with Rhaenyra.
Cole exploding only makes sense when you consider that to Rhaenyra, Laenor and Jeoffrey this whole open relationship thing is just a game to them. We saw and no doubt Cole knew how Viserys reacted to even just the rumor of his own brother deflowering Rhaenyra, can you imagine the kind of stress and fear the man lived with for whatever length of time spanned between the end of last episode and the wedding? Not just days but weeks and potentially months. The man was a powder keg of confliction, anger, rejection, fear and self loathing. Laenor's boyfriend picked the wrong time to poke that bear and all three of them completely misjudged how Cole would react to their flippant treatment of a situation that might result in them losing face while Cole's only concern when he did confess to Alicent was "Please just kill me quick."
Thank you, I can't understand why people don't factor his honor in when looking at his outburst and suicide attempt. Even when he had sex with Rae he was doubtful and did as a duty. For me nothing on the script felt forced or rushed. I agree with you!
Tbf, I don't think Otto was manipulating Alisent, I think he actually worried for her. He just do not realize that what he imagines could only happen because he placed his ambitions before the good of his daughter in first place by marrying her to Viserys
Nah bruh. Otto knows exactly what he is doing, what will happen if he successfully marries her daughter to the King. That's why he was pushing Rhaenyra as an heir in the first place, and urging Viserys to make an immediate decision. He knows that being a woman is a weaker claim. Once he successfully marries her daughter off and has a son, he thinks that son will have a much stronger claim. There's no "he just do not realize", he knows well what sht will happen, and he's trying to guilt trip his daughter into agreeing on what he wants. He is a HAND for TWO Kings. He knows politics better than anybody.
Also, I just love how people are having different opnions about conflicts in the show. This is just how the Dance of the Dragon should be, there are no good guys or bad guys, it's just a bunch of people doing shitty things for its own reasons.
its good that youre keeping a critical stance. I personally really loved the episode, but forming your own opinion on each episode of the show is really important
I think you're downplaying something they made a lot of effort to show with Criston's inner struggles. He clearly sees what he did with Rhaenerya as a HUGE blow to his honor and character if it stays a "one night stand". He broke his oath to sleep with the princess, at her instigation(power dynamics are important here and would be brought up immediately if it was a prince seducing a maiden). Now if he doesn't make something more of that with her, what was the point? How was besmirching his and her honor(she's supposed to remain pure for marriage) worth it at all if she is just going to have him around for sex/intimacy but remain married to someone else while he has to remain a kingsguard who is breaking his oath repeatedly in perpetuity. I think the gravity of how bad his mistake is when coupled with how idealized his position is for himself(seems to believe its one of the greatest privileges he could have gotten, and had got there by starting with nothing). So while I think they maybe didn't do a perfect job, the pieces are all there as to why this young man is undergoing an intense mental crisis.
You basically covered most of my sentiments exactly. Criston's descent into becoming a tool is totally inexplicable. The scene with Alicent he could have just told her "yes" and left it at that. He would think he was admitting to his crime and she would think Rhaenyra slept with Daemon. They could have avoided that whole soap-opera melodrama by cutting out everything they did with him and replacing it with just him being unusually stoic, then have Joffrey reveal his observation in a very antagonistic way and have it break out into a fight right then and there over his honor. Alicent could then find him in the courtyard contemplating quitting (or suicide, w/e). He could then clarify/confess his involvement with Rhaenyra at this point and Alicent, as the queen., could offer him redemption in exchange. The one thing you left out that bugged me was how on-the-nose heavy-handed Larys was about... everything. Oof...
Overanalysing, just like this video. This entire video is a bad take, more than half the people here agree with this, terrible analysis. And completely misunderstood the Criston Cole arc. You don’t understand the world of Westeros.
Cole has been setup to value the white cloak over everything, from the very 3rd episode...even down to the sex scene with Rhaenyra you could tell he cared about his honor( carefully folding his white cloak as he makes his decision)...so he won't break that vow unless he thought Rhaenyra was serious about him...and why wouldn't he think that? She is always whining about her duty and obligations and how she wants to be free of it all...makes perfect sense he would make the offer to flee to Essos... it's not like there haven't been Targaryen princesses who have done so.
absolutely spot on sir. I like this channel a lot but this was a huge miss and it also caught me by a surprise. I'm so glad that most people don't agree with this, I gave this episode 5 out of 5.
Personally I think Criston's change of heart, and the reasoning they provide for it, is actually well executed, since like many have pointed out, it's more about honor and ego, rather than blind love for Rhaenyra; the man after having acheived great success quite literally from nothing is essentialy being degraded to a plaything, so of course he'd be pissed. However they reeeaally shat the bed with his outrage moment, why the hell didn't they show what made him snap? Was it Daemon, Joeffry, or a mix of both? Why are there no consequences directly enforced on him then and there by either the Kingsguard or anybody else ffs? What in the seven hells is happening?!?! That scene would be so easily fixed if he just got seized inmediately and right when he's about to be executed, Alicent saves his life in favour of her purposes, overall really fucking weird last 10 minutes to close an otherwise awesome chapter.
It’s so well executed. You finally get to understand that actions have consequences and a little night for her out could cost people their jobs(Otto) and lives(Ser Christon). It only comes as a shock that he did what he did if you don’t understand his circumstances from his point of view. He essentially think he’s fucked and is goin to be tortured anyways, so a murder suicide isn’t a big deal.
I think the fact that we don’t know what started it makes it better. Fights like that are always chaotic and the show really nailed down that sense of confusion. He’s also a King’s Guard and Rhaenyras personal protector, most people around him are gonna assume he’s got good reason for beating a guy to death (even if there is none) as if no one really saw what happened he’s got plausible deniability for saying Joffery was a threat to her (dude even pulled a knife during the fight). Not that I agree with the actions itself but in the context of the world it makes sense. Hell even at real clubs and bars when fights break out the confusion and crowd is enough to delay a response from security.
exactly or they should at the very least have shown a reasonable escalation of events and more of a back and forth than this absolutely savage display that would surely immediately have gotten him killed
@@ltmurphy8038 Sure, I get what they where going for with the scene setup and direction, but the lack of an inmediate consequence is really jarring, even with justification from a dagger being drawn, Crispin just smashed a dude's skull to a pulp and punches the future king consort in the face, son of the proudest man in the continent, and afterwards he just walks away, no seizing, interrogation or even an attempt to know just why the hell he did it? From our perspective we understand his motivation, but nobody except for Laenor is shown reacting to such an event.
im glad you brought up and gave emphasis to the episode's issues. i saw some reviews and most of them ignored the problems, even tho it was really difficult for me to suspend my disbelief when watching - especially at the final minutes.
Why are people confused by this, it's very simple to me. He threw away his vows and honor when she wanted to have sex with him, then refuses to follow through with that and seems to "abandon him" in his mind.
Nah I get his love route and why he pushed it so urgently he’s so heartbroken about him breaking his honour of being a knight that he really felt that he has nothing to live for so he on a last reach for life he did this off of love and running away as a means to keep his honour and it finally just got let out after the few days build up after Rhaenarya offered being a side chick
some people try to find faults in everything , and it appears that he doesn't understand some of the scenes like the one on the boat where criston clearly was distraught for breaking his oath and soiling his name and white cloak .
Wow, there's no fool like an honorable fool I guess🙄. But Sir Criston didn't even behave like an honorable man, more like a madman🤪. Did he catch Dany's madness from season 8 cause that's what it looked like 😂. He was such an endearing character I was beginning to like but after episode five I hate his guts😤!!
Fully agree. Not wearing the helmet was dumb and contrived, NO ONE stopping him was dumb and contrived and the worst- the fact that he was just allowed to walk out and leave was SO dumb and contrived.
Yeah its a bit weird with Criston... Why choose to attack Joffrey in particular? Dude was saying "don't worry, I'll keep your secret. Also Laenor isn't your rival as he's gay and in love with me." Did Criston misinterpret that as a threat or something? Did Criston think that if he killed Joffrey, that would keep his secret? (but he thinks Alicent found out on her own... surely he thinks a bunch of people know...) Was Criston just a complete emotional wreck in that moment, due to love and honor and stuff? (A little weird that Joffrey did nothing to provoke him - if anything, what he said should have calmed Criston) Is Criston just a homophobe, and didn't want to be compared to a gay affair? Also why wasn't Criston arrested? The bride's bodyguard got into a brawl with the groom's best friend and killed him, and the mayhem puts the bride and groom in danger. Shouldn't he at least have been thrown into a cell until they figured out what happened? If he's arguing that Joffrey was an assassin, a) he should have said so otherwise this argument is a cope, b) if he was believed, there should have been massive uproar and he should have been reprimanded for not taking the assassin alive, so that he could be questioned about motives and accomplices. That should probably have seen him executed or sent to the Wall, not given free reign of the castle with his weapons to run into Alicent alone. If he'd been carted off to the dungeons instead, and was about to kill himself with a hidden dagger when Alicent interrupted and ordered him freed, that would have worked so much better.
Joffrey triggered that sore spot of "my honor's ruined, the Princess wants me to be her whore." Since Joffrey was in a (sorta) similar situation, having his dishonor tossed back in his face by some random when he's already in turmoil over it is bound to be disastrous. As for Criston not being arrested - he's a member of the Kingsguard unless the guards and the other white cloaks saw how the fight started, they'd be like to give him the benefit of the doubt. The only people who could have ordered his arrest at that point would have been three people: the King, the Queen, or the Hand, all of whom were on the dais and couldn't see shit. (Not to mention Viserys's ill health and Alicent being in support of Ser Criston). Lastly, looking at the behind-the-scenes footage, the fight didn't immediately start with Ser Criston pummelling Ser Joffrey on the ground. There were a few blows exchanged between the two before Criston got the upper hand so it's a bit ambiguous how the whole thing started. In that regard, the cinematography of the scene makes it extra ambiguous since it's shot from the pov of the King and others on the dais rather than where the fight actually started. We just see it happen in the midst of it and really have no frame of reference on what exactly started it.
Finally! Someone calling out the issues in this episode despite our appreciation of the show so far. A lot of “just accept it” sort of writing, as they’re clearly eager to get to the big time jump and eventually the Dance of Dragons.
There are several things that make HOTD not at par with GOT. 1. Storyline Progression - In GOT the storyline was much easier to connect with than this. Although it should have been the opposite given that we were unfamiliar with the GOT world at that time. 2. Characters - Inspite of so many characters in GOT, there was never a moment in initial seasons where you would think that a character could have been omitted and it wouldn't have affected the story. Here there are several instances where I feel it. 3. Character Development - Be it crabfeeder or princess Rhea, you hear about them two or three episodes and then they are finished in a split second. Not a good idea. 4. Dialogues - One factor which sets apart initial GOT seasons from any other show is the dialogue. Be it from Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger, Tywin or Ned. The dialogues were such that you could relate to them outside the show in real life. Here it isn't the same. 5. Cast - The cast of GOT was extremely good if not perfect. Danny even though in her first episode looked fragile but in the next moment you could that resolve in her eyes and posture. I hope things get better in coming episodes but till now I am not impressed.
The scene where Criston asks Rhaenyra to escape together was an idea written by GRRM. The Septon in the book says that Criston, confessing his love, asked Rhaenyra to escape to Essos, while Mushroom the jester says that it was Rhaenyra that approached Criston and Criston rejected her.
Finally I saw someone commenting on this! I was displeased and confused by how all the events occurred… I felt that things that should have been showed more was too subtle and things that should be subtle had unnecessary screen time.
based off of when that larys strong dude said the tea was given to rhaenyra the night before I would say the episode took place very shortly after the last episode
Ehh, I feel like Ser Christofferson held a torch for Rhaenyra for years before she jumped him, and that the only reason he would soil his honor is for love. The strain of tremendous guilt over violating his vows, the sting of rejection, and feeling betrayed probably put him on edge already, causing him to confess really easily to Alicent. I think when Joffrey spoke with him that he thought he was being blackmailed and snapped under the pressure he was already under. None of this is okay, and I agree that this part of the episode felt off in comparison to the rest, but that was what I gathered from it.
So he decided to restore his honor by murdering a civilian at the wedding?, one that offer to keep his secret? Alicent had already forgiven him and Rhaenyra didn´t force him to continue their realtionship. (For those saying Rhaenyra forced him to have sex, there you have it: He said no this time and she respected it) I´m trying to understand his motives but I don´t get his logic
It's not a logical choice - he thinks he's a dead man any minute now. Having Joffrey toss his dishonor and shame in his face unintentionally set off an outburst.
He wasn't trying to restore his honor - that's gone. He was already suicidal, and Joffrey decided to threaten him. Getting threatened makes a lot of people violently angry in normal times - in Criston's mindset it was exactly the push he needed.
This is by far the best episode so far. I think the hate/misandry directed at Criston Cole is interesting, if the gender roles were reversed (s)he would probably be pitied and sympathized by everyone. But when a man has everything that matters to him by a vastly more powerful woman who wants to turn him into her personal toy, he apparently is expected to just be happy and accept it. And when he stand up for himself and resists, he's being a toxic male and, somehow, and incel (even though he WANTED to remain celibate and is upset that he lost that). After all the princess is a woman, so her feelings and desires are all that matters, men should just shut up and play the role women decide they should play.
They needed to set up Ser Cristins pride over his honour in an earlier episode. There was one scene where he mentioned how achieving kingsguard status meant a lot to him but he didn't seem Brienne levels of honourable. We had no idea that him having sex with her would be a big deal to him so I didn't sympathise with his inner conflict since he just burst out emotionally with litte set up.
We actually did know that him having sex with the princess was a big deal to him. In their sex scene the camera is clearly showing how uncomfortable he is with it and how it meant he would be sullying his white cloak. It doesn't always have to be explicitly stated to the audience. Sometimes you have to think a little to draw conclusions.
@@JaceWind It wasn't clear then that he was concerned about forsaking his oath, maybe I'm the only one that did it but I assumed that he was apprehensive because sleeping with the princess is incredibly dangerous and could get him executed. If they had a scene after where he disappointedly stared at his white cloak or something it would've established better that he held his vows in high regard.
It makes sense for me. Sir Criston is a loyal and honorable person. He follows the law and he does his duty as a knight of the kings guard. He broke his vows after years of being faithful. We can see he is questioning his choices and the only thing left that he thinks its true is his love for Raenyra. It makes sense for him to ask her that even if he knows that she will probably decline. He loves her and wants to forget about his vows and everything in the past and focus only on her(at least thats what I got from his impressions and dialog). And at the wedding he is hurting a lot. He doesnt know his fate (because he told the queen) and he is watching the girl he loves marrying somebody else. The last thing he needs is someone telling him he knows the truth( He is feeling so much pain at that point) and thats when he snaps.
This felt very much like "we have these actresses for the younger part through the wedding, JAM EVERYTING IN" I'm hoping that now that we have the new cast in place, we'll go back to better pacing.
How much do you know about the new cast? Is it just Alicent and Rhaenyra moving to new actors, or is it most younger actors? Personally I'd love to see Criston's actor change. I commented, but personally, his scene on the boat with Rhaenyra ruined his character for me. Terrible acting for such a great show, it was just jarring.
Fair, but all things considered the pacing has been handled very well. They needed to go from blank-slate exposition for general audiences to a point where they had convincingly set up like a dozen interlinked threads and multiple character arcs. I don’t think there’s a way to avoid some degree of rushing, but I don’t see how it really could have been improved on in 5 episodes
There will be another time jump in season 1 after that where grown aemond with eye patch appears. It will be like boring like s5 of GOT if they don't do the time jumps
I just wanna say that im gonna miss Milly and Emily in their roles. I think they made an excellent job and showed a good acting, despite it being their first big show. For me its such a shame that we wont see them ever again as Rhaenyra and Alicent.
finally someone who sees through some of the BS of this episode...just chaotic drama..nowhere near the caliber of the first 4 seasons of GoT. This feels more like GoT season 6-7 material. So far my fav characters are Otto and Alicent and the king to some extent. Rhyneara fell out of my good books after episode 3.
I do like how they handled the green dress here. Its a bit of a stupid plot point in the books, but when they connect it to the piece of lore with green wartime beacon, that casts new light (ha, ha) on that bit in the books. Its a little odd that they didn't intro Rhaenyra's dress at the same time, but I still have faith that they'll do an equally good job with her color.
Big fan of yours Supercuts. And you saying Ser Criston "doing an any% speedrun in ruining his life" has got to be one of the funniest things I've had the pleasure of hearing.
I guess book readers know the time difference they're trying to portray. I'd say near a year, maybe more. And even if it just took months, one of the accounts has Cole professing his love, while others say it was Rhaenyra. Overall, I thought the start was fine, it was the wedding that was a little interesting. I think they should've kept the original death - a tourney with an "accident." Would've added more depth to the story and character imo.
@@dreamfyre3868 Fair enough. Even maybe just added a cause for the initial altercation, like Joffrey goes after Daemon or something. They just needed something to give Cole plausible deniability
In an interview with George RR Martin, he said that 1) the books are not told from a reliable narrator, meaning the books are not credible. 2) he said that the TV show is being told from the perspective from what actually happened
I think the only thing that actually bothers me about Ser Criston is that it all happens extremely fast and it may look unrealistic, but everything he did makes sense to me to some degree. I just assumed some months had passed between this episode and the last one since those time skips are quite common in between episodes already. It didn’t bother me and I don’t think it’s that important to make it more explicit. Ser Criston is, over anything, a man of honor, so him telling the queen everything is surely a reaction to be expected from him out of guilt. Hell, he even looked like he felt guilty while having sex with Rhaenyra, so the amount of pressure and despair he must’ve felt due to alicent’s words pushed him to confess. Granted, that scene is quite corny and kinda dumb but it doesn’t bother me that much. And while the whole feast scandal was quite confusing and it’s not very clear why nobody stopped the man on his killing spree or why was everybody fighting each other (I think it’s cheap chaotic effect that is quite unnecessary) I think Ser Criston was already over the edge by seeing Rhaenyra with her “new guy” after being massively rejected. I think Joffrey’s comments came off as a threat to him, and he snapped. I also think that it makes absolutely perfect sense for him to want to kill himself (again, a man of honor having stained his white cloak twice already with unforgivable sins). Was it chaotic and confusing? Yeah. I still think it made sense after all. I have to agree that the best scene is the only one that features Otto though, what an amazing character.
You perfectly summed up my feelings and It's a huge relief. I don't regret subscribing to this channel, I love your critical thinking. I hope future episodes will fix all these issues.
@@Maggbba There isn’t anything ‘critical’ about this take. He has completely misunderstood the character, world of Westeros and entire episode. For example the scene with Rhaenyra and Criston on the ship is completely misunderstood, His motives are obvious yet he misunderstands throughout the entire episode. Terrible take and lazy analysis
I... don't get why people are confused by this. He was all about honor and duty. She fucked him, which robbed him of that, but established a quiet promise that they could at have love instead. Her then being like "Lol nah FWB's tho?" is a massive slap in the face and is very in line with Raenera's character - she is completely oblivious to a staggering degree about the thoughts and feelings of people around her. She is utterly entitled and, yes, has it hard in some ways, but is completely blind to the fact that other people have it worse than her and her actions have consequences. From Christon's perspective - she ruined his life, she took away a defining aspect of who he is, and then revealed that she basically... doesn't care? She doesn't care that she did that and doesn't care how much it hurt him. Then he confesses to Alicent and... has no idea what she's going to do. He's not even there KNOWING what is going to happen to him, because of Raenera, so when Joffrey tries to be like "Ah I know what's up"... he loses his shit, because he feels that he's being mocked and taunted on top of everything else by someone who, from his perspective (cuz homophobia is the norm in Westeros) is an unrepentant sinner. What confuses me is ALICENT. In the original book it was very clear Alicent was, essentially, just kind of a bad person and a political opportunist. In the books her whole deal was getting power and she was kind of a huge manipulator so - it made sense for her to hate Raenera from the start and vice-versa. Making her more sympathetic has been really confusing because she... doesn't really have legitimate reasons to be angry? She has no reason to feel betrayed, she has no real reason to be upset with Raenera beyond how massively inconsiderate she is - and that's NOT why Alicent seems to be upset with her in the show. Idk, it's weird. I did also think it was weird they briefly made Daemon's wife an attractive, likeable, fierce-tempered woman... because... why would he hate her? Spoilers but later in the book the woman he eventually falls in love with is an attractive, likeable, fierce-tempered woman who doesn't take his shit. It's weird that they'd include her and make her... his type, basically. It just doesn't make sense, the implication in the books was that she was boring and ugly - which isn't an excuse to fucking murder her but it at least explains why he would WANT TO.
I think Allicent was put into position when Rhaenyra is her natural enemy with regards to succession, but Allicent still hoped for a good outcome only to see that Rhaenyra lied to her, swearing on a memory of her mother, which is a sensitive topic for both of them. And has been acting and behaving like a whore while Allicent herself gets no respect or even promise of safety for her own sacrifices. I think it was surprisingly well done. As for Rhea Royce, yeah it is a bit confusing, but with how Daemon has been characterized so far, maybe his distaste of Rhea came from not being able to pick his own wife, since that match was made by Queen Alysanne, so traits he would normally enjoy like her sharp tongue soured for him into "Hostile environs" etc.
@@Pelagion98 I mean I do get the angle of her being, essentially, pissed off that Rhaenyra can basically do whatever the fuck she wants and make life harder for EVERYONE with no consequences while her "Doing a woman's duty" has gotten her nowhere does make sense to *some* extent but... I don't know. I'm coming at this from the perspective of the books and I will say that this episode is the point where they FULLY become enemies. Like this event was the battle-lines being drawn. And in the books, both sides knew it was fully inevitable and there was a LOT of direct animosity before now. Whereas in the show Rhaeneyra seems pretty clueless?
Totally agree about ser Criston... He is a knight, but a lowborn wouldn't even dare talk like that to a princess and heir to the throne. That scene when he proposes her to run away is much more modern, even though it is fantasy, in the Westeros setting, a lowborn would never think of that. Next, the way he killed Joffrey is out of character. He acted like a drunk, not like a cool headed knight. He could have killed him out of sight, without anyone suspecting anything. Anyway, after that lover boy scene on the ship, it didn't seem to me that Criston cares so much about honor, and everything he does next can't be in the name of honor, really, the character is totally unplausible. Be it Bronn, yes...
I don't think it had anything to do with love. It was honor. He obviously regretted breaking his vow of chastity and losing, in his mind, any kind of honor he had to his name, and he'd been eating himself up about it for however long was between the episodes. He saw fleeing as the only solution for his name to start over and, as he knows she didn't want to get married, he offered the same escape to Rhaenyra. When talking to Alicent, he asks her to get him executed. he's still obviously devored by guilt and doesn't know how to deal with it because he broke his sacred oath. And then, with the queen already aware of what he did, this random guy comes to tell him that he knows, and that they have to protect eachother secrets. He sees him as a threat to his honor, and to Rhaenyra's honor too, and kills him with the intention of killing himself next, thus getting rid of almost everyone who knows about Rhaenyra's secret and preserving her. At least that's how I see this whole part. Like yeah he's obviously liked Rhaenyra for a while but it's not what dictates his actions. He has nothing to hope with ther and with his honor being disfigured, the only way out he sees is just kill the other guy who could threaten the royal union and then die so that no one can threaten the princess's secret.
What I like about Daemon is that I never know what he will do next, all I know is that whatever he does, it will be more memorable then anything else for me
regarding the suddenness of the next big time jump 1) i dont think they realized they had struck gold with the young rhaenyra and alicent actresses 2) i have a feeling they sped the plot up due to not being sure at how the show would be received (i.e. the bad taste from GOT finale, so they wanted to tell this story in full in 1 season even if it got cancelled)
@@mechailbudgie7753 Plus the only people that coulda ordered his arrest were on the dais where they couldn't see what was happening. Viserys was having his health moment, and Alicent would likely protect Cole
So glad that somebody called out EVERYTHING about Criston in this episode. Even usual critic like Preston gave some parts of the episode pass, but in reality nothing in this episode about him made any sense. Proposal to Rhaenyra, confession to Alicent, attacking Joffrey - nothing was done well. Writers have been trying real bad to get story where they need it and we know how it ended last time around. Pity.
I thought at first, Matt Smith was talking to the princess, then the quick motions were someone attacking him, the next thing I see is Crispin beating Joffrey, and thought "Oh, Joffrey just tried to kill her uncle maybe for looking like he was about to do something." But the scene has a cut in it and Matt Smith is just gone. You don't see him wounded or crawling away. He's just gone. I was waiting for it to get to, "And I saw Joffrey with his knife in his hand approach the prince and princess..."
Amen. Shame so many others in this comment section are falling over themselves to defend the bad writing. I’m not a fan of newly introduced characters dying same episode (Rhea’s exit was hasty too). It feels cheap.
Ser Criston doesn’t have sex for years and then sleeps with one of the most beautiful woman in the castle. His mental state makes complete sense. He was probably in love with her the entire time he was serving her. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to believe that’s the case.
Did you even watch the whole scene? Criston is not in love with Rhaenyra, he just feels like marrying her is the only way to restore his sense of honour
I will say that it was pretty big of him to admit the truth of what happened to Alicent. It doesn’t excuse him murdering Joffrey by any means, but it does show what kind of guy he is, or rather WAS.
Criston you can tell from the first episode you meet him, you can tell he had a thing Rhaenyra, and i think Rhaenyra did to so im not to surprised about how he was on the boat , but i do feel like it was to quick and poor writing
He is an idiotic kingsguard is what he is. Man punched the future king consort in the face and ruined a future monarchs wedding. I’d be very bad writing if Corlys and her wife just let that slide. Like a commoner punced the heir to the richest and probably the most powerful house😂
@@kieffer4615 You missed the part where his parents didn’t approve of their relationship? Lol they probably saw it as a favor, they wouldn’t do anything about it.
Alicent’s entrance gave me goosebumps her presence was incredible. The way she looked at Rhaenyra and called her stepdaughter 🔥 I was so confused when the fight started it came out of nowhere also Daemon suddenly disappeared and left Rhaenyra but I was glad that Harwin rescued her 😍
I loved the expression Harwin made when his father allowed him into the mess. This guy will be a joy to watch in the fight scenes later, just his sheer size and presence is fun to watch
Great review. I felt the same about Ser Criston and Rhaenyra dialogue. Silly and sophomoric. Then the bizarre non-repercussion murder that ruined a royal wedding banquet. They indicated that it can be lawless, but that's ridiculous, especially with his friendship to Laenor. Pretty sure a member of a royal retinue being murdered would only be ok if sanctified by the King. Bizarre and made me think this was the first big miss of the show. Book death is way better. Would've liked a little more about the necessity of the King going to Driftmark. Why is Viserys so desperate? Because of marriage alliance with Braavos? Otto was great. The green dress scene was a highlight. The suicide scene was a head-scratcher and shouldn't have happened.
Finally someone says it, I think the writing was weaker in this episode and did leave me feeling puzzled. The time jumps really do disrupt the flow of the story, and sometimes it feels like not much time has passed when in fact it has, and other times it's vague whether it's been weeks, months or years since the events of the last episode, save for one line of exposition. There are plot holes that are ignored, questions left unanswered, and things that are set up that don't seem to have consequences or conclusions. Of course this is only like 5% out of the overall story and narrative, but they're enough to take me out of the immersion and leave me confused, so much that I have to ask other people to fill in the blanks, because I don't read the books or having much knowledge about the story, if something isn't shown or told in the show itself I'm clueless. I'm surprised at the way things played out at the wedding and not really in a good way, because I was expecting more to happen based on what's been set up and what the stakes are. Instead we got love sick horny Criston beating the ever loving shit out of Joffrey 2.0 and it came across as really random and unsatisfying seeing how we only met the guy this episode, and as you say, it's supposed to be relatively soon after episode 4 and Criston is this madly in love? I get that it has a lot to do with his honour and his vows, which he broke, and his guilt over that, and maybe he thought he was fucked either way, but it just felt so out of place and I was expecting Daemon to do something crazy at the wedding or for someone to announce Rhaenyra and Laenor's dirty secrets and fighting would break out, but no, the conflict that has been brewing for 5 episodes is unresolved before the decade long time jump and a conflict that started 5 minutes ago ends abruptly and unexplained. Idk maybe it's just me but I don't get why people are saying this episode is spectacular. Like it was very good but nothing groundbreaking and I was expecting more to come out of this stage of the story, especially as we're saying goodbye to Milly and Emily
@@Ready-ForTheEnd it'd be hypocritical of me to condemn them for this because usually franchises spit in the face of fans of the source material, but there needs to be a middle ground where you don't need an advanced degree to understand the context and subtext of a show based on a book/movie/game, but it should make sense within the context of the show itself
This episode was honestly such a letdown for me after a great start to the show. Hopefully they'll avoid these cheap plot twists in the future. I don't know how people can even defend this. His honor... really? He didn't bother to think for a second how it would ruin Rhaenyras life or cause a war over the crown once she's accused of sleeping with a kingsguard before marriage? It's honorable to smash a mans skull at a royal wedding, at which he's supposed to be the guard? He was acting braindead throughout the whole episode...
I liked that he was about to commit sepuku, basically trying to restore his lost honor with his own death. It makes sense why he snapped, his honor was the only thing he had to his name, at least with no honor he could have run away with Renyra, but when he lost that too, he had nothing left to lose.
Another weird thing with Criston's reaction is the delay in it. It started with him just looking bothered after Joffrey talked to him and cut to different scenes and then suddenly it's back to them again with no buildup to Criston snapping.
Don’t wanna be mean but I think you missed the mark with this episode. It made clear sense to me why he did it even if it was a poorly thought out question to Rheanyra. Characters can ask dumb questions and do dumb things too! It wouldn’t be fun all the time if they were all smart lol
Bad, bad, terrible writing this episode. But I always knew they were going to have problems with Ser Criston's transition. But they absolutely botched it. He should have been put in the dungeons immediately. Season 8 level writing.
Everything in the episodes have been pretty accurate so far according to the books and references. That’s just the way George wrote it. It’s book accurate because George is heavily involved.
The tonality and the ambience of the sad montage to end the pre time jump period, with the cursed marriage with Alicent and Cole uniting into a unbreakable bond with the Djawadi music playing is by far the best shot of the season as of now. It's very Shakesperean, especially given what role Criston Cole is going on to play. Blows any crabfeeder battle out of the water. That scene of Otto pleading with Alicent in the rain was the best acted scene so far. The guy who plays Otto, freaking great actor. As far as I'm concerned there's only one side to support, and it's the Greens.
I guess the main problem isn't that Ser Criston doesn't have the reasons to do what he has done. But the show didn't give him a proper plot preparation before those sudden turns. GoT S8 lacks the character arc development and the same goes to HoT ep5. This is why many of us aren't very happy abt. We are so afraid that HoT goes down the same routine again.
Hate to be that guy, but it feels like most of the episode went over your head... It was quite apparent Criston struggled with his acts because it defiled his honour and his oath to the Kingsguard. He says multiple times that it's all he's ever had, and that now he's sullied it. He might like Rhaenyra, but he loved his honor and that's why he lashed out the way he did. Joffre was trying to blackmail him, using Criston's honor as a bartering tool. Hence he went berserk. Kinda seemed obvious to me and the people (non-book readers) I watched it with.
Rhaenyra is such an awful character. Well written but awful. She pressured him into bed using her position of authority over him. He broke his vows and she doesn't give a damn about how that affects him or makes him feel. If she were a man, this would be seen as a disgrace. An evil man taking advantage of a woman. She took advantage of him,used him then tossed him out like trash.
It was a great episode despite unanswered questions and awkward situations. Love your snark and breakdown. The Green Wedding wasn’t as horrific as I anticipated it be by GOT’s track record’☮️🐉
It was never about love for Criston Cole though. It was about honor or rather what he perceives as honor. Even when he proposes his marriage his reasoning is that it will help redeem his honor rather than because of love. When Rhaenyra shoots him down he keeps talking about how his honor has been sullied and he doesn't care about her predicament. When she comes to him with a reasonable compromise his "honor" won't let him accept that and ironically he calls her selfish. When Alicent calls him he believes death will give him honor which is why he's confessing to her. I'll admit the last ten minutes were a bit too dramatic for my taste but his switch in allegiance makes perfect sense because it shows Alicent as giving him a way to "redeem his honor". As for how he got away with it, it's probably because Alicent will advocate for him to stay and there is no way Corlys is going to ruin the chance of his grandchils being heir because a Kingsguard killed his son's friend. We've seen Kingsguard do worse in GoT, heck Jaime killed a King and still stayed on, and get away with it because who his father was.
I agree with most people here that Ser Criston is being more honor oriented instead of love-oriented, but him expecting Raenyra to give up the throne so he can marry her and redeem himself is an absolute long shot. So asking that question to begin with to me is ridiculous. Then for the wedding feast, him breaking is a good plot point, it's just underdeveloped and the creators decided to make the scene intentionally confusing on top of that. Not to mention some random plot holes being tied to that sequence.
But it's been setup that Rhaenyra doesn't care much for duty(smashing the kingsguard besides being the heir to the iron throne)...she is always whining about being forced into marriage and it's logical that from his p.o.v Rhaenyra doesn't care much for the crown...fleeing to Essos would be a win for all of them...and even if it's a longshot, the way Rhaenyra turns him down was cold...at that moment it hit him that she never really saw him as more than a whore, a sex toy, a low born who isn't worthy of her...this is truly beautiful writing
I am very disappointed with you. I didn’t think you were a simple minded person. Anyway, hope your future works will be better.
I mean... of course the question was ridiculous and idiotic. He's clearly a broken mess because he hurt his little man's ego by going to bed with Rhaenyra. That was the whole point from what I understood, no one believed she would give up her position for him, she says it herself. As for the wedding brawl, it seems that the show isn't taking sides on a few plot points intentionally to make the conflict between the greens and the blacks more of a grey area. If that's a positive or a negative, I suppose we'll only discover by the end of the season.
For being such a large ASOIAF account, you have the worst analysis I’ve ever seen and completely misunderstood what’s going on with Cristen hahaha
He already considers himself a dead man. Last episode, he should have said no, but because he didn't, he basically cannot live with himself. His last hope of redeeming himself in his own mind is that both of them "fuck duty" and head out, but he knows that's not going to happen, but he hopes that it could. Then, he really just wants to be dead at this point, so he confesses to Alicent and asks to be killed. And then he freaks the fuck out and kills Joffrey cuz of the taunting (probably cuz of the sword tap). And then, already wanting to be dead, he decides to do it himself. But then Alicent, smart cookie looking for allies she is, follows him to the Godswood. That's my read, I thought this episode was geniusly done, Rains of Castamere levels, that might just be me tho.
I think it was more about honor for Criston than Rhaenyra honestly. He’s heartbroken because he’ll never restore the honor to his name, not because she won’t just run away. Once Laenor’s lover confronts him and implies he might be stuck in the position he’s in, he snaps. Criston worked his entire life from nothing to where he is, just to throw it away with no ability to regain what was once lost. He might’ve loved her, sure, but I’m fairly certain he just snapped from his honor being taken away.
It's that mixed with realizing that Rhaenyra thinks little of him and asked him to be her secret lover
She can't empathise with him in that way and neither does he understand that Rhaenyra also has duty and honor to uphold
Yeah, and I think him proposing marriage to her was his way of restoring honor in some type of way. Some of it was built on romantic feelings, but I believe that for the most part he wanted to do that to relieve his guilt.
Exactly! I don't know how he didn't pick up on that...
That and Rhaneyra for barely even caring, he threw away his honour for nothing
Exactly this. Can't believe he misses the obvious in a lot of these videos.
Criston Cole didn't have this downfall because of his love to Rhaenyra, it's because he's starting to question his honor.. he's always been a guy of morals, he considers his white cloak the highest honor he's ever received and so soiling it made him into the unstable mess he's become.
And btw, I love what they have done to his character.. in the books, it's unclear why he had this sudden change of heart when he joined the greens.
But now it's pretty clear and it makes more sense that he would abandon Rhaenyra for the greens.
glad im not the only one that liked what happened to criston
I personally didn’t know what to think of him this episode, but that’s a pretty good explanation
@@mclovin8980 I think that was the point of this episode you don't know what's happening but one thing is clear Crispin's little man ego got hurt
Yes I love it. He has been held in high regard because he is the only Knight that has seen combat. He holds his honor in high regard. When he soils that, he feels he has nothing left but love for Rhaenyra. It feels childish because this is during peace times. These people don't hav a harsh world to counterbalance this with. It feels major because this is the most major thing that has happened to them. The show is doing the superbly.
@@Darkstar_Dayne Ego, or morals is literally all a knight's got.
Actually, the "replacement actresses" were cast first then they looked for young actresses who look like them.
other way doesn't make sense . Does it?
Can you explain what you mean by replacement actresses
@@XSCSCGS as in the actresses that will replace rhaenyra and alicent from next episode forward as there is a time jump. They were cast first as for the majority of the series it will be them playing rhaenyra and alicent and then they casted younger versions for episode 1-6
@@XSCSCGS There will be a timejump of 10 years in episode 6. Rhaenyra and Allicent will be played by older actresses from that point onward.
@@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158 oh I see, thanks for informing me :)
While Criston’s tropy “let’s run away together” shtick might seem simple/unoriginal, I think regarding the character it makes sense. Criston is a knight in the Middle Ages whose grown up on stories of bravery and romantic ideals of chivalry and courtly romance. To him, the suggestion of running off together like that just makes sense as the honorable and noble thing to do.
Ofcourse it’s fucking absurd by our modern conceptions of relationships, but to him it’s totally valid.
Also, he knows how much Rhaenyra does not wish for an arranged marriage, and he knows how reluctant she is to embrace her position as heir. So I feel it makes sense for Criston to expect Rhaenyra to want to run away with him.
I second that. From Criston's point of view, he believes Rhaenyra hates her duties and position and would rather be anywhere else. He completely underestimated how truly ambitious she is for the iron throne and power.
Breaking your oath to run away with the Princess who is betrothed to another man is the opposite of honourable.
Criston from his first scene seems to embody the traditional archetype of a gallant chivalrous heroic knight. He’s too good and pure for Westeros, which is why he’s a perfect character to be put in there to see how he manages.
Also judging by GoT’s scenes with Renly and Loras there seems to be a Stormlands/Reach culture that’s very sheltered and revels in ideals of chivalry and doesn’t fare too good when placed next to the grim realities of the cutthroat real world.
@GJ I know that the world of ice and fire is brutally cynical and love stories end terribly. I’m saying that There are still many romantic *stories* and notions fed to people in spite of that. Criston doubtlessly grew up in those stories and would’ve been influenced by them in the same way many children are influenced by the stories of their youth.
He’s trying to live up to the romantic ideals of chivalry as a knight of the kingsguard, but once his vow of chastity is broken he tries to live out another romantic ideal- that of the star crossed lovers leaving everything behind and defying social norms and conventions to live and love together.
Criston's confession was the first sign of his suicidality. Naturally Alicent would be aware of this, so it's no surprise when at end she follows him and intervenes. It wasn't a matter of timing.
Exactly, my guy is so riddled with self loathing by now he's clearly being self destructive.
When you lose the only thing you have (his case being his honor), you tend to not care anymore and want to die
Ser Criston mistakenly thought HotD was about him. It was once, my guy have several seats!
Ser Criston doesn't/didn't love Rhaenyra (he was fond of her at best) he was offering her an out to save *HIS* honor. It had nothing to do with her.
Agreed, he said himself the position is all he's pretty much had and he went and fucked it up with the princess of all people.
@@adamlahlou7907 right! I got the sense from the moment she chose him as her protector that she at least was attracted to him. Over the years she may have confided in him that she loathed her position but she never once seemed to wanna give it up yet Ser Criston decided to manipulate her words to try to get his honor back. It's self-serving.
@@rahbeeuh you are tripping, accountability is woman's kryptonite, he just didn't want to get killed like any sentient being would, and was just a toy for Rhaenyra.
when she is for the street she doesn't deserve protection.
That’s how I saw it too, with his speech after she rejects his advances
@@hailberseker5387 what are you on about? Ser Criston was just as much guilty of the situation as Rhaenyra. He just made the offer about him. It had nothing to do with her. Even his marriage proposal wasn't about love it was about restoring his honor.
I loved the music during Alicent’s entrance, Ramin Djawadi always creates individual themes for each character, and to me this moment signifies Alicent finally coming into her own as true player in this game of thrones.
I love that
The Daemon theme always sends a shiver down my spine
The theme playing during Alicent's entrance reminded me alot of "Light of the Seven" which played when Cersei blew up the High Sparrow in S6.
@@MinscS2 definitely related since her and her house are strongly connected to the Faith of the Seven
@GJ let me know if you find it! I wish Ramin would release the soundtrack for the entire season, but I suppose he’ll do it once it’s over.
I think Criston’s outburst doesn’t have anything to do with his feelings for Rhaenyra. Even when they’re on the boat discussing the prospect of running away he talks about it as a way to “restore his honor,” and talks about soiling his white cloak which is “the only thing I have to my fucking name.” We already know he’s an honor driven character and has spent his whole life trying to be the most honorable he can be so when Rhae rejects him his only chance to restore his honor is gone. He tries to restore it by telling Alicent what he did and then asking to be executed but Alicent just lets him go. So now he has the pressure of Alicent knowing his secret and as we all know ppl with honor don’t play “the game” very well. So when Ser Joffrey figures out his secret he cracks and just murders him. Now that he’s soiled his cloak and murdered an innocent any shred of honor he once had is gone and everything he worked his life up to is gone. Anyone else in the situation would probably try to kill themselves too
Also I think the no helmet thing has more to do with him being easy to see for the audience. Ser Harold also doesn’t wear a helmet I’m pretty sure
If his honour was so important to him he shouldnt have banged her to begin with and then telling her to give everything up so he can get his honour back what a clown of a man
Never thought about Alicent letting him go making him even more mad.
@@ak86db well that’s the drama now isn’t it?
@@ak86db she was the princess, she could command it. And she show her power over him in episode 4,didnt she
@@granockss9548 princes and a knioght aint a slave and a slave owner he can say no but ser cuntstruck didnt
I believe he’s under the protection of Alicent so he might have gotten away with this one especially with a lot of the audience not in favour of Rhaenarya becoming queen and in support of Alicent’s son (i.e the lannisters) so maybe no one would testify against him anyways though i agree it was a bit confusing why he had no helmet but in the books it’s left confused why Ser Criston switched to the Greens and the lovestruck and instant decline is clearly why he was so upset and not cared for Rhanaenary having even leave their conversation without any reprimands
One problem with that it may have worked in the books but not how they did it in the show. He punched laenor in the face. Killing joffery is one thing attacking the prince consort is something completely different there's no way alicent could justify that .
How is literally everybody not suspecting the littlefinger in this story
Larys has been snooping around feeding information and overall sitting in the background quietly
You can't just do that as the youngest son of the kings hand
He told alicent about the moon juice and hes shown some decent baelish skills
I've learned to watch out for characters with a crutch (literall in his case)
They always tend to be the the last to survive
put a warning for spoilers, please
*Just seen episode 6*
YEEESSSSS
YEEEEAAAAAAAAS
DID I NOT SEE THIS COMING
DID I NOT CALL THIS
LETS GOOOO.
in the scene where cole suggests his idea, he starts with that rheanyra has "confided in me now and then over the years of our acquaintance".
seems to me they had that they have build a pretty personal relationship, and cole knows she is about to marry someone else so in his mind this might be his only shot to marry her. also he is probably fearing his life as he knows once his actions gets discovered he will probably die for them.
His reaction was believable for me. This woman gave him and his family name and an honor that no one else could give. He owes everything to her and after their encounter he is even more ensnared. He sacrificed everything he holds dear inside, albeit it certainly comprised his integrity, leaving him desperate to justify his actions with her. The rejection on the boat was the final string holding him together and jophrey pulled that dangling thread where he has nothing left. He is ashamed that this now public knowledge and he was played the fool, time to go out with a bang
Agreed, this only makes it clear that Criston is a horrible, selfish man. Instead of facing consequences for his actions, he made a big ol mess and ran away. Rhaenyra didnt rape him or force him into sex. It was simply passionate love making and Criston the dick went with the flow, knowing it was committing high treason. She and him are not equal. She is free to act however damn well she wishes like, and he had the choice to not commit treason.
So Criston "the honorable" thinks with his dick, decides to have sex with the virgin princess. This decision of his clearly breaks his character apart. He murders and ruins the royal wedding of the girl she owes everything to. Whats so stupid is apparently he will eventually betray Rhaenyra because of this incident. HE OWES EVERYTHING TO HER. How in the seven hells is he blaming Rhaenyra for even 1% of this? Cause she seduced him that one night?
People here who are saying Rhaenyra is to blame for what happened to Criston think this show takes place in 2025 lmao. Criston went from being a cool character to being the absolute worst, obnoxious prick real fast
@@arman9175 hence why the hate for the shows portrayal of this twist.
It made no sense for Joffery to even tell Criston that he knew he got it on with Rheanyra. Can you imagine Little Finger telling someone inside info he had on them as soon as he found out about it? No way. Joffery telling Criston wasn't really threatening anyway. For him to go insane in front of everyone was not realistic.
Guys remember we're talking about immature Knight-kids from the middle ages. They're acting on emotional impulse without any Emotional Intelligence to guide them. Teenagers DO shit like that.
@@arman9175 ??!!? This is absolutely bullshit and blind hate for the character 💀
Caring for his oath is selfish?
Rhaenyra used him she knows his oath and all and yet she thinks he will be just her side boy !(which he could never be) and if not for alicent he would be dead so its totally understandable to be faithful to her, she gives him the second chance.
I think the sequence that explains cole’s flip out is:
He punches him cause hes angry repressed and cracked. The people around are treating it like a brawl to watch for entertainment. Then joffrey pulls out the knife and pulling a knife against a kingsguard is enough to get killed. Its very silly how the other kingsguard dont get involved at all esp when Rhaenyra and Laenor are in danger, however they may think kingsguard cole is dealing with the situation himself. But it does feel a bit off.
He punched Laenor in the face, how did he got away with that ?
passage of time was shown through the progression of Viserys's disease... his whole arm is covered now. plus, criston wasn't as head over heels for Rhaenyra as much as he was concerned about his honor.
No all that does is show the progress of his disease
He could have gone from two fingers to a whole arm in days or weeks or months
We don’t know
I think Larys acting as the new little finger was a great part of the episode
Lastly the Alicent and Cole scene where he blurts out the truth...makes perfect sense it's truly masterful writing...because from Sir Criston Cole's point of view...he thinks she knows...and why lie when he has nothing left to lose...why not be honest and save whatever scrap of honor he had left...this was a truly beautiful episode... don't know what you're on about
I truly hope I am misreading sarcasm? Alicent knew Rhaenyra snuck out with Daemon. Knew Cole was not present and could not know about that night. But she awkwardly and unnaturally kept stalling the question of whether he knew/saw the siblings sleeping together just so Cole could slip up and reveal himself. That's the most pathetic level of drama writing imaginable, cheapest soap operas do it.
This was followed by that insanely random party scene.
Finally, when you'd think, okay, at least Cole will end his own life, Alicent ex machina arrives and stops him to use him as future leverage against Rhaenyra. Horrendous writing. No better than season 8. And here I was kind of enjoying the show up until this episode
@@antonois Cole is her sworn protector...if anyone would know what happened that night it would be him...and it's obvious people address sensitive matters in this world by speaking in riddles and implying things...we saw it when Rhaenyra was implying leanor was gay, I mean she is basically accusing the princess, the heir and Daemon Targaryen of adultery...she can't flat out say it my guy...tf are you even saying 😂
@@antonois and Alicent saving ser Criston is the most foolish complaint of this entire video...truly enrages me when something good is shit on by dimwits that can't take a second to think...like Alicent just had a sensitive conversation with ser Criston, she realizes he is probably the only one being honest with her in the whole court and he could be used as a weapon against Rhaenyra, few days later he has a violent outburst in public that could warrant his death, you'd think she would keep an eye on him and want him on her side...sometimes the writer is just smarter than you think big man.
Don't be an apologist. The writing was lacking this episode. Joffrey Lonmouth notices sole kingsguard with no helmet on looking at Rhaenyra == He is having sex with her. what kind of logic is that? They better come up with a good reason why Alicent believes if Rhaenyra takes the throne, she will murder her children, cuz that's the main driver of the dance.
Also Cole literally had a sword and could cleave Joffrey in two but decides to use his hands for dramatic effect.
The way Alicent shudders when Otto mentions war is so subtle and great.
The actress is incredible.
Weird, to me the wedding scene was the highlight of the episode, alicent marching in was fucking badass, and when they started dancing you already knew something was gonna happen. The music was raising the tension beautifully, the feeling of a crammed dance floor and the smalltalk during the dance sequences was really authentic and "alive" to me. Not like in the later seasons of got where the scenes were basically empty.
Also the whole ser criston part was fine with me, he clearly holds his honor in high regard and after he failed to save it by running away and even some slimy dude clearly suggests he knows about his secret and threatens him with it he straight up snappes at him
To me it was understandable, sorta justified and the camerawork and set design just made the scene amazingly realistic and interesting
(Altough the sets and camerawork has been top notch the whole season so far)
Completely agree with this. Well said.
Daemon walking in shameless like he didn't just kill his wife and wasn't banned forever from red keep killed me.
I think the reason no Kingsguard member stops Criston is because it happens out of nowhere, and from the quickest jump to conclusions, they see another Kingsguard member fighting a common man holding a knife, watching Harwin carry Rhaenyra out of the room, for all they know they think Joffrey was threatening Rhaenyra and Criston saved her
That could be it.
They dont interfere so the plot can happen, thats why. It is weak writing.
The guards are there for that sole purpose, yet take no action.
Criston murders a guest at the wedding and faces no consequences. Its bad writing. I want to like the show. I mean I do like it. I hope it isnt a sign of the future.
@@NowhereMan7 No it's not. Cole has always been a good knight so if he does something like this they think he must have a reason. Everyone thinks they know what good writing is because they watched some videos on why season 8 of GOT was bad. Smh
@@NowhereMan7 I kinda agree, criston beating ser joffrey right in the middle of royal wedding in front of king without atleast taken to the cell is kinda plothole; in the book he killed him in melee tourney so it didn't makes any consequences. meanwhile this is royal wedding with king queen and many noble guests. if criston is arrested by other kingsguard after this then get pardoned and under protection from the queen then it makes sense, but him wandering around in weirwood garden like no one gave a shit of him is kinda off.
However what matthew proposing is kinda make sense too. it's so ruckus there and everyone know he's rhaenyra personal swornshield and they two are close, I think it's logic if the kingsguard assuming he beaten ser joffrey for the sake of rhaenyra, also they see ser harwyn carrying her to safety.
but still, no consequence of his action is kinda plothole, it's a gap in the storyline. How can royal bodyguard killing guest right in front of the whole guests and king queen and not sentenced to death? fired from his position? atleast get arrested for some month and palace hold a trial?
@@DoctorJammer "they think he must have a reason"? Thats my point. They would hold seize him and ask him to explain what his reason was. They dont even do that, its absurd.
Let’s just preface the entire incident by saying that the book’s version of events (naturally) made perfect sense. Killing Joffrey in a tourney melee, while frowned upon, isn’t “wrong.” Beating him to death in the middle of the wedding’s dance floor clearly is.
Criston not wearing his helmet was so silly.
Eh that's just annoying hollywood BS. You gotta show my actors face or we won't sign the contract wah wah.
I actually think - this was the best episode yet (combined with the last one) - a simple masterclass…
What I so much adore about this show - nothing is really said, but more shown, a lot of things and character‘s motivations are open to interpretations, e.g. the sex scene between Criston and Rhaenyra (last ep):
Methaphorically, his armour was the symbol of his honor and duty, hence the time it took to take it off, Criston was scared and unsure, because all he ever had was being a Kingsguard, a greatest honor any Cole ever had (he said that in ep 3), destroying that and breaking his oath meant breaking the very essence of his being… Once he put his armor on the ground, he stands watching it and contemplating his doings and only then after a clear moment of consideration he let himself to Rhaenyra, which shows a couple of things:
A) he clearly does love and respects Rhaenyra - but in his mind, there is a conflict between the duty and the love (goes along with the running theme of GoT „love is the death of duty“ or „duty is the death of love“)
B) to him, this little adventure was far more worthy of consideration than it was to Rhaenyra (she didn‘t have any noticeable moments of consideration, in fact, she was probably still feeling the infatuation from the encounter with Daemon minutes/hours before)… and this fact solely, shows us, the viewers, the imbalance of their relationship: Criston gave up the very essence of his being: honor, for that one night, Rhaenyra did not.
All this sets perfectly the table for the next (5th) episode: where we see, Criston‘s shame, but also love for Rhaenyra, spiraling out of control - he is guilt ridden, but he also deeply cares about her - so in this moral conudrum, for Criston, there are only two ways out: to run away with Rhaenyra (choose love), or to die (choose honor): Rhaenyra rejects him, so he can‘t choose love, and Allicent after hearing the truth from Criston doesn‘t punish him, so he is left dishonored without facing the consequences and basically emotionally abandonded by Rhaenyra - thus, he is deeply unsatisfied, angry and borderline suicidal… The final push is provided by Joffrey, who basicaly reminds him of him breaking the oath, blackmails him indirectly and kinda mockingly brushes of the whole situation - Criston is probably blinded by his emotions and kills Joffrey… Upon realization, he decides to kill himself - having destroyed everythings he cares for - his honor and his relationship with Rhaenyra.
Well said, and beautifully written 👌
Cole exploding only makes sense when you consider that to Rhaenyra, Laenor and Jeoffrey this whole open relationship thing is just a game to them. We saw and no doubt Cole knew how Viserys reacted to even just the rumor of his own brother deflowering Rhaenyra, can you imagine the kind of stress and fear the man lived with for whatever length of time spanned between the end of last episode and the wedding? Not just days but weeks and potentially months. The man was a powder keg of confliction, anger, rejection, fear and self loathing. Laenor's boyfriend picked the wrong time to poke that bear and all three of them completely misjudged how Cole would react to their flippant treatment of a situation that might result in them losing face while Cole's only concern when he did confess to Alicent was "Please just kill me quick."
Thank you, I can't understand why people don't factor his honor in when looking at his outburst and suicide attempt.
Even when he had sex with Rae he was doubtful and did as a duty. For me nothing on the script felt forced or rushed. I agree with you!
Well Written
No it wasn’t good
Tbf, I don't think Otto was manipulating Alisent, I think he actually worried for her. He just do not realize that what he imagines could only happen because he placed his ambitions before the good of his daughter in first place by marrying her to Viserys
Nah bruh. Otto knows exactly what he is doing, what will happen if he successfully marries her daughter to the King. That's why he was pushing Rhaenyra as an heir in the first place, and urging Viserys to make an immediate decision. He knows that being a woman is a weaker claim. Once he successfully marries her daughter off and has a son, he thinks that son will have a much stronger claim. There's no "he just do not realize", he knows well what sht will happen, and he's trying to guilt trip his daughter into agreeing on what he wants. He is a HAND for TWO Kings. He knows politics better than anybody.
Well, turns out he’s power hungry, and probably wants to sit on the iron throne
Also, I just love how people are having different opnions about conflicts in the show. This is just how the Dance of the Dragon should be, there are no good guys or bad guys, it's just a bunch of people doing shitty things for its own reasons.
its good that youre keeping a critical stance. I personally really loved the episode, but forming your own opinion on each episode of the show is really important
I think you're downplaying something they made a lot of effort to show with Criston's inner struggles. He clearly sees what he did with Rhaenerya as a HUGE blow to his honor and character if it stays a "one night stand". He broke his oath to sleep with the princess, at her instigation(power dynamics are important here and would be brought up immediately if it was a prince seducing a maiden). Now if he doesn't make something more of that with her, what was the point? How was besmirching his and her honor(she's supposed to remain pure for marriage) worth it at all if she is just going to have him around for sex/intimacy but remain married to someone else while he has to remain a kingsguard who is breaking his oath repeatedly in perpetuity. I think the gravity of how bad his mistake is when coupled with how idealized his position is for himself(seems to believe its one of the greatest privileges he could have gotten, and had got there by starting with nothing). So while I think they maybe didn't do a perfect job, the pieces are all there as to why this young man is undergoing an intense mental crisis.
You basically covered most of my sentiments exactly. Criston's descent into becoming a tool is totally inexplicable.
The scene with Alicent he could have just told her "yes" and left it at that. He would think he was admitting to his crime and she would think Rhaenyra slept with Daemon.
They could have avoided that whole soap-opera melodrama by cutting out everything they did with him and replacing it with just him being unusually stoic, then have Joffrey reveal his observation in a very antagonistic way and have it break out into a fight right then and there over his honor.
Alicent could then find him in the courtyard contemplating quitting (or suicide, w/e). He could then clarify/confess his involvement with Rhaenyra at this point and Alicent, as the queen., could offer him redemption in exchange.
The one thing you left out that bugged me was how on-the-nose heavy-handed Larys was about... everything. Oof...
Overanalysing, just like this video.
This entire video is a bad take, more than half the people here agree with this, terrible analysis.
And completely misunderstood the Criston Cole arc.
You don’t understand the world of Westeros.
@@aureum7479 a good show can have bad moments bud.
Cole has been setup to value the white cloak over everything, from the very 3rd episode...even down to the sex scene with Rhaenyra you could tell he cared about his honor( carefully folding his white cloak as he makes his decision)...so he won't break that vow unless he thought Rhaenyra was serious about him...and why wouldn't he think that? She is always whining about her duty and obligations and how she wants to be free of it all...makes perfect sense he would make the offer to flee to Essos... it's not like there haven't been Targaryen princesses who have done so.
This is the best explanation I have seen on this topic
And just because he has been near her for about four years doesn't mean he knows her mind
He can only go on her actions and she has shown reluctance to step into her role
absolutely spot on sir. I like this channel a lot but this was a huge miss and it also caught me by a surprise. I'm so glad that most people don't agree with this, I gave this episode 5 out of 5.
Personally I think Criston's change of heart, and the reasoning they provide for it, is actually well executed, since like many have pointed out, it's more about honor and ego, rather than blind love for Rhaenyra; the man after having acheived great success quite literally from nothing is essentialy being degraded to a plaything, so of course he'd be pissed.
However they reeeaally shat the bed with his outrage moment, why the hell didn't they show what made him snap? Was it Daemon, Joeffry, or a mix of both? Why are there no consequences directly enforced on him then and there by either the Kingsguard or anybody else ffs? What in the seven hells is happening?!?! That scene would be so easily fixed if he just got seized inmediately and right when he's about to be executed, Alicent saves his life in favour of her purposes, overall really fucking weird last 10 minutes to close an otherwise awesome chapter.
It’s so well executed. You finally get to understand that actions have consequences and a little night for her out could cost people their jobs(Otto) and lives(Ser Christon).
It only comes as a shock that he did what he did if you don’t understand his circumstances from his point of view. He essentially think he’s fucked and is goin to be tortured anyways, so a murder suicide isn’t a big deal.
I think the fact that we don’t know what started it makes it better. Fights like that are always chaotic and the show really nailed down that sense of confusion.
He’s also a King’s Guard and Rhaenyras personal protector, most people around him are gonna assume he’s got good reason for beating a guy to death (even if there is none) as if no one really saw what happened he’s got plausible deniability for saying Joffery was a threat to her (dude even pulled a knife during the fight).
Not that I agree with the actions itself but in the context of the world it makes sense. Hell even at real clubs and bars when fights break out the confusion and crowd is enough to delay a response from security.
exactly or they should at the very least have shown a reasonable escalation of events and more of a back and forth than this absolutely savage display that would surely immediately have gotten him killed
@@ltmurphy8038 Sure, I get what they where going for with the scene setup and direction, but the lack of an inmediate consequence is really jarring, even with justification from a dagger being drawn, Crispin just smashed a dude's skull to a pulp and punches the future king consort in the face, son of the proudest man in the continent, and afterwards he just walks away, no seizing, interrogation or even an attempt to know just why the hell he did it? From our perspective we understand his motivation, but nobody except for Laenor is shown reacting to such an event.
im glad you brought up and gave emphasis to the episode's issues. i saw some reviews and most of them ignored the problems, even tho it was really difficult for me to suspend my disbelief when watching - especially at the final minutes.
Why are people confused by this, it's very simple to me. He threw away his vows and honor when she wanted to have sex with him, then refuses to follow through with that and seems to "abandon him" in his mind.
Nah I get his love route and why he pushed it so urgently he’s so heartbroken about him breaking his honour of being a knight that he really felt that he has nothing to live for so he on a last reach for life he did this off of love and running away as a means to keep his honour and it finally just got let out after the few days build up after Rhaenarya offered being a side chick
That moment when you know that if Ser Criston said "These last few months that we've been together..." he would say that it was too hamfisted.
some people try to find faults in everything , and it appears that he doesn't understand some of the scenes like the one on the boat where criston clearly was distraught for breaking his oath and soiling his name and white cloak .
Wow, there's no fool like an honorable fool I guess🙄. But Sir Criston didn't even behave like an honorable man, more like a madman🤪.
Did he catch Dany's madness from season 8 cause that's what it looked like 😂.
He was such an endearing character I was beginning to like but after episode five I hate his guts😤!!
Fully agree. Not wearing the helmet was dumb and contrived, NO ONE stopping him was dumb and contrived and the worst- the fact that he was just allowed to walk out and leave was SO dumb and contrived.
Yeah its a bit weird with Criston... Why choose to attack Joffrey in particular? Dude was saying "don't worry, I'll keep your secret. Also Laenor isn't your rival as he's gay and in love with me." Did Criston misinterpret that as a threat or something? Did Criston think that if he killed Joffrey, that would keep his secret? (but he thinks Alicent found out on her own... surely he thinks a bunch of people know...) Was Criston just a complete emotional wreck in that moment, due to love and honor and stuff? (A little weird that Joffrey did nothing to provoke him - if anything, what he said should have calmed Criston) Is Criston just a homophobe, and didn't want to be compared to a gay affair?
Also why wasn't Criston arrested? The bride's bodyguard got into a brawl with the groom's best friend and killed him, and the mayhem puts the bride and groom in danger. Shouldn't he at least have been thrown into a cell until they figured out what happened? If he's arguing that Joffrey was an assassin, a) he should have said so otherwise this argument is a cope, b) if he was believed, there should have been massive uproar and he should have been reprimanded for not taking the assassin alive, so that he could be questioned about motives and accomplices. That should probably have seen him executed or sent to the Wall, not given free reign of the castle with his weapons to run into Alicent alone. If he'd been carted off to the dungeons instead, and was about to kill himself with a hidden dagger when Alicent interrupted and ordered him freed, that would have worked so much better.
Joffrey triggered that sore spot of "my honor's ruined, the Princess wants me to be her whore." Since Joffrey was in a (sorta) similar situation, having his dishonor tossed back in his face by some random when he's already in turmoil over it is bound to be disastrous.
As for Criston not being arrested - he's a member of the Kingsguard unless the guards and the other white cloaks saw how the fight started, they'd be like to give him the benefit of the doubt. The only people who could have ordered his arrest at that point would have been three people: the King, the Queen, or the Hand, all of whom were on the dais and couldn't see shit. (Not to mention Viserys's ill health and Alicent being in support of Ser Criston).
Lastly, looking at the behind-the-scenes footage, the fight didn't immediately start with Ser Criston pummelling Ser Joffrey on the ground. There were a few blows exchanged between the two before Criston got the upper hand so it's a bit ambiguous how the whole thing started. In that regard, the cinematography of the scene makes it extra ambiguous since it's shot from the pov of the King and others on the dais rather than where the fight actually started. We just see it happen in the midst of it and really have no frame of reference on what exactly started it.
Finally! Someone calling out the issues in this episode despite our appreciation of the show so far. A lot of “just accept it” sort of writing, as they’re clearly eager to get to the big time jump and eventually the Dance of Dragons.
There are several things that make HOTD not at par with GOT.
1. Storyline Progression - In GOT the storyline was much easier to connect with than this. Although it should have been the opposite given that we were unfamiliar with the GOT world at that time.
2. Characters - Inspite of so many characters in GOT, there was never a moment in initial seasons where you would think that a character could have been omitted and it wouldn't have affected the story. Here there are several instances where I feel it.
3. Character Development - Be it crabfeeder or princess Rhea, you hear about them two or three episodes and then they are finished in a split second. Not a good idea.
4. Dialogues - One factor which sets apart initial GOT seasons from any other show is the dialogue. Be it from Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger, Tywin or Ned. The dialogues were such that you could relate to them outside the show in real life. Here it isn't the same.
5. Cast - The cast of GOT was extremely good if not perfect. Danny even though in her first episode looked fragile but in the next moment you could that resolve in her eyes and posture.
I hope things get better in coming episodes but till now I am not impressed.
The scene where Criston asks Rhaenyra to escape together was an idea written by GRRM. The Septon in the book says that Criston, confessing his love, asked Rhaenyra to escape to Essos, while Mushroom the jester says that it was Rhaenyra that approached Criston and Criston rejected her.
Finally I saw someone commenting on this! I was displeased and confused by how all the events occurred… I felt that things that should have been showed more was too subtle and things that should be subtle had unnecessary screen time.
Criston doesn't have his helmet because Rhaenyra still hasn't given it back.
So he couldn’t have just gotten a spare helmet? No one else in the kings guard even questioned him?
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@Awsomeguy145 Rhaenyra established a spy network to steal all the kingsguard helmets
based off of when that larys strong dude said the tea was given to rhaenyra the night before I would say the episode took place very shortly after the last episode
Larys Strong*
Oooof...
The way you're so far from the point he asked her to marry him and run away...
Ehh, I feel like Ser Christofferson held a torch for Rhaenyra for years before she jumped him, and that the only reason he would soil his honor is for love. The strain of tremendous guilt over violating his vows, the sting of rejection, and feeling betrayed probably put him on edge already, causing him to confess really easily to Alicent. I think when Joffrey spoke with him that he thought he was being blackmailed and snapped under the pressure he was already under. None of this is okay, and I agree that this part of the episode felt off in comparison to the rest, but that was what I gathered from it.
So he decided to restore his honor by murdering a civilian at the wedding?, one that offer to keep his secret? Alicent had already forgiven him and Rhaenyra didn´t force him to continue their realtionship. (For those saying Rhaenyra forced him to have sex, there you have it: He said no this time and she respected it) I´m trying to understand his motives but I don´t get his logic
It's not a logical choice - he thinks he's a dead man any minute now. Having Joffrey toss his dishonor and shame in his face unintentionally set off an outburst.
He wasn't trying to restore his honor - that's gone. He was already suicidal, and Joffrey decided to threaten him. Getting threatened makes a lot of people violently angry in normal times - in Criston's mindset it was exactly the push he needed.
This is by far the best episode so far. I think the hate/misandry directed at Criston Cole is interesting, if the gender roles were reversed (s)he would probably be pitied and sympathized by everyone. But when a man has everything that matters to him by a vastly more powerful woman who wants to turn him into her personal toy, he apparently is expected to just be happy and accept it. And when he stand up for himself and resists, he's being a toxic male and, somehow, and incel (even though he WANTED to remain celibate and is upset that he lost that).
After all the princess is a woman, so her feelings and desires are all that matters, men should just shut up and play the role women decide they should play.
They needed to set up Ser Cristins pride over his honour in an earlier episode. There was one scene where he mentioned how achieving kingsguard status meant a lot to him but he didn't seem Brienne levels of honourable. We had no idea that him having sex with her would be a big deal to him so I didn't sympathise with his inner conflict since he just burst out emotionally with litte set up.
idk he seemed pretty unwilling in the sex scene.
He's not honorable or anything he's a fckin nut
We actually did know that him having sex with the princess was a big deal to him. In their sex scene the camera is clearly showing how uncomfortable he is with it and how it meant he would be sullying his white cloak. It doesn't always have to be explicitly stated to the audience. Sometimes you have to think a little to draw conclusions.
@@JaceWind It wasn't clear then that he was concerned about forsaking his oath, maybe I'm the only one that did it but I assumed that he was apprehensive because sleeping with the princess is incredibly dangerous and could get him executed. If they had a scene after where he disappointedly stared at his white cloak or something it would've established better that he held his vows in high regard.
@@damianwilson7526
Bruh rewatch that scene, he was hella uncomfortable initially
It makes sense for me. Sir Criston is a loyal and honorable person. He follows the law and he does his duty as a knight of the kings guard. He broke his vows after years of being faithful. We can see he is questioning his choices and the only thing left that he thinks its true is his love for Raenyra. It makes sense for him to ask her that even if he knows that she will probably decline. He loves her and wants to forget about his vows and everything in the past and focus only on her(at least thats what I got from his impressions and dialog). And at the wedding he is hurting a lot. He doesnt know his fate (because he told the queen) and he is watching the girl he loves marrying somebody else. The last thing he needs is someone telling him he knows the truth( He is feeling so much pain at that point) and thats when he snaps.
This felt very much like "we have these actresses for the younger part through the wedding, JAM EVERYTING IN" I'm hoping that now that we have the new cast in place, we'll go back to better pacing.
How much do you know about the new cast? Is it just Alicent and Rhaenyra moving to new actors, or is it most younger actors? Personally I'd love to see Criston's actor change. I commented, but personally, his scene on the boat with Rhaenyra ruined his character for me. Terrible acting for such a great show, it was just jarring.
@@thefinal9923 the preview appears to be the same male leads, I only noticed alicent and Ray change
Fair, but all things considered the pacing has been handled very well. They needed to go from blank-slate exposition for general audiences to a point where they had convincingly set up like a dozen interlinked threads and multiple character arcs. I don’t think there’s a way to avoid some degree of rushing, but I don’t see how it really could have been improved on in 5 episodes
@@thefinal9923 Laenor and Laena are also recasted as older actors. Agree on Cole, he and Daemon will look too young now.
There will be another time jump in season 1 after that where grown aemond with eye patch appears. It will be like boring like s5 of GOT if they don't do the time jumps
super interesting that my boy is confused by crispin while i’m loving every second of what i’m watching.
Every book reader is loving the show except for the ones who want to see everything play out as they did in books which is impossible
I just wanna say that im gonna miss Milly and Emily in their roles. I think they made an excellent job and showed a good acting, despite it being their first big show. For me its such a shame that we wont see them ever again as Rhaenyra and Alicent.
finally someone who sees through some of the BS of this episode...just chaotic drama..nowhere near the caliber of the first 4 seasons of GoT. This feels more like GoT season 6-7 material. So far my fav characters are Otto and Alicent and the king to some extent. Rhyneara fell out of my good books after episode 3.
I do like how they handled the green dress here. Its a bit of a stupid plot point in the books, but when they connect it to the piece of lore with green wartime beacon, that casts new light (ha, ha) on that bit in the books. Its a little odd that they didn't intro Rhaenyra's dress at the same time, but I still have faith that they'll do an equally good job with her color.
Big fan of yours Supercuts. And you saying Ser Criston "doing an any% speedrun in ruining his life" has got to be one of the funniest things I've had the pleasure of hearing.
I guess book readers know the time difference they're trying to portray. I'd say near a year, maybe more. And even if it just took months, one of the accounts has Cole professing his love, while others say it was Rhaenyra. Overall, I thought the start was fine, it was the wedding that was a little interesting. I think they should've kept the original death - a tourney with an "accident." Would've added more depth to the story and character imo.
They couldn‘t film another tourney due to time, budget and covid restrictions.
@@dreamfyre3868 Fair enough. Even maybe just added a cause for the initial altercation, like Joffrey goes after Daemon or something. They just needed something to give Cole plausible deniability
In an interview with George RR Martin, he said that 1) the books are not told from a reliable narrator, meaning the books are not credible. 2) he said that the TV show is being told from the perspective from what actually happened
I think the only thing that actually bothers me about Ser Criston is that it all happens extremely fast and it may look unrealistic, but everything he did makes sense to me to some degree. I just assumed some months had passed between this episode and the last one since those time skips are quite common in between episodes already. It didn’t bother me and I don’t think it’s that important to make it more explicit. Ser Criston is, over anything, a man of honor, so him telling the queen everything is surely a reaction to be expected from him out of guilt. Hell, he even looked like he felt guilty while having sex with Rhaenyra, so the amount of pressure and despair he must’ve felt due to alicent’s words pushed him to confess. Granted, that scene is quite corny and kinda dumb but it doesn’t bother me that much. And while the whole feast scandal was quite confusing and it’s not very clear why nobody stopped the man on his killing spree or why was everybody fighting each other (I think it’s cheap chaotic effect that is quite unnecessary) I think Ser Criston was already over the edge by seeing Rhaenyra with her “new guy” after being massively rejected. I think Joffrey’s comments came off as a threat to him, and he snapped. I also think that it makes absolutely perfect sense for him to want to kill himself (again, a man of honor having stained his white cloak twice already with unforgivable sins). Was it chaotic and confusing? Yeah. I still think it made sense after all. I have to agree that the best scene is the only one that features Otto though, what an amazing character.
You perfectly summed up my feelings and It's a huge relief. I don't regret subscribing to this channel, I love your critical thinking. I hope future episodes will fix all these issues.
For an analysis, this video is off base and a bad take
The real issues are with his video, poor analysis.
@@aureum7479 Feel free to elaborate
@@Maggbba There isn’t anything ‘critical’ about this take.
He has completely misunderstood the character, world of Westeros and entire episode.
For example the scene with Rhaenyra and Criston on the ship is completely misunderstood, His motives are obvious yet he misunderstands throughout the entire episode.
Terrible take and lazy analysis
I... don't get why people are confused by this. He was all about honor and duty. She fucked him, which robbed him of that, but established a quiet promise that they could at have love instead. Her then being like "Lol nah FWB's tho?" is a massive slap in the face and is very in line with Raenera's character - she is completely oblivious to a staggering degree about the thoughts and feelings of people around her. She is utterly entitled and, yes, has it hard in some ways, but is completely blind to the fact that other people have it worse than her and her actions have consequences. From Christon's perspective - she ruined his life, she took away a defining aspect of who he is, and then revealed that she basically... doesn't care? She doesn't care that she did that and doesn't care how much it hurt him. Then he confesses to Alicent and... has no idea what she's going to do. He's not even there KNOWING what is going to happen to him, because of Raenera, so when Joffrey tries to be like "Ah I know what's up"... he loses his shit, because he feels that he's being mocked and taunted on top of everything else by someone who, from his perspective (cuz homophobia is the norm in Westeros) is an unrepentant sinner.
What confuses me is ALICENT. In the original book it was very clear Alicent was, essentially, just kind of a bad person and a political opportunist. In the books her whole deal was getting power and she was kind of a huge manipulator so - it made sense for her to hate Raenera from the start and vice-versa. Making her more sympathetic has been really confusing because she... doesn't really have legitimate reasons to be angry? She has no reason to feel betrayed, she has no real reason to be upset with Raenera beyond how massively inconsiderate she is - and that's NOT why Alicent seems to be upset with her in the show. Idk, it's weird.
I did also think it was weird they briefly made Daemon's wife an attractive, likeable, fierce-tempered woman... because... why would he hate her? Spoilers but later in the book the woman he eventually falls in love with is an attractive, likeable, fierce-tempered woman who doesn't take his shit. It's weird that they'd include her and make her... his type, basically. It just doesn't make sense, the implication in the books was that she was boring and ugly - which isn't an excuse to fucking murder her but it at least explains why he would WANT TO.
I think Allicent was put into position when Rhaenyra is her natural enemy with regards to succession, but Allicent still hoped for a good outcome only to see that Rhaenyra lied to her, swearing on a memory of her mother, which is a sensitive topic for both of them. And has been acting and behaving like a whore while Allicent herself gets no respect or even promise of safety for her own sacrifices. I think it was surprisingly well done.
As for Rhea Royce, yeah it is a bit confusing, but with how Daemon has been characterized so far, maybe his distaste of Rhea came from not being able to pick his own wife, since that match was made by Queen Alysanne, so traits he would normally enjoy like her sharp tongue soured for him into "Hostile environs" etc.
@@Pelagion98 I mean I do get the angle of her being, essentially, pissed off that Rhaenyra can basically do whatever the fuck she wants and make life harder for EVERYONE with no consequences while her "Doing a woman's duty" has gotten her nowhere does make sense to *some* extent but... I don't know. I'm coming at this from the perspective of the books and I will say that this episode is the point where they FULLY become enemies. Like this event was the battle-lines being drawn. And in the books, both sides knew it was fully inevitable and there was a LOT of direct animosity before now. Whereas in the show Rhaeneyra seems pretty clueless?
Totally agree about ser Criston... He is a knight, but a lowborn wouldn't even dare talk like that to a princess and heir to the throne. That scene when he proposes her to run away is much more modern, even though it is fantasy, in the Westeros setting, a lowborn would never think of that. Next, the way he killed Joffrey is out of character. He acted like a drunk, not like a cool headed knight. He could have killed him out of sight, without anyone suspecting anything. Anyway, after that lover boy scene on the ship, it didn't seem to me that Criston cares so much about honor, and everything he does next can't be in the name of honor, really, the character is totally unplausible. Be it Bronn, yes...
I don't think it had anything to do with love. It was honor. He obviously regretted breaking his vow of chastity and losing, in his mind, any kind of honor he had to his name, and he'd been eating himself up about it for however long was between the episodes. He saw fleeing as the only solution for his name to start over and, as he knows she didn't want to get married, he offered the same escape to Rhaenyra.
When talking to Alicent, he asks her to get him executed. he's still obviously devored by guilt and doesn't know how to deal with it because he broke his sacred oath. And then, with the queen already aware of what he did, this random guy comes to tell him that he knows, and that they have to protect eachother secrets. He sees him as a threat to his honor, and to Rhaenyra's honor too, and kills him with the intention of killing himself next, thus getting rid of almost everyone who knows about Rhaenyra's secret and preserving her. At least that's how I see this whole part. Like yeah he's obviously liked Rhaenyra for a while but it's not what dictates his actions. He has nothing to hope with ther and with his honor being disfigured, the only way out he sees is just kill the other guy who could threaten the royal union and then die so that no one can threaten the princess's secret.
Wasn't Daemon banned from King's Landing? How could he just have walked into the throne room?
I dont know exactly . May be come from secret passage ways of the Kings Landing
@@30_saratha62 Ok, but then he should have been arrested by the guards in the throne room.
@@Funnysterste May be the king doesnt want to make a scene in a happy wedding night
What I like about Daemon is that I never know what he will do next, all I know is that whatever he does, it will be more memorable then anything else for me
regarding the suddenness of the next big time jump 1) i dont think they realized they had struck gold with the young rhaenyra and alicent actresses 2) i have a feeling they sped the plot up due to not being sure at how the show would be received (i.e. the bad taste from GOT finale, so they wanted to tell this story in full in 1 season even if it got cancelled)
The other guards probably assumed that Cole was doing his duty and Joffrey was a threat.
That’s what I think as well.
@@mechailbudgie7753 Plus the only people that coulda ordered his arrest were on the dais where they couldn't see what was happening. Viserys was having his health moment, and Alicent would likely protect Cole
So glad that somebody called out EVERYTHING about Criston in this episode. Even usual critic like Preston gave some parts of the episode pass, but in reality nothing in this episode about him made any sense. Proposal to Rhaenyra, confession to Alicent, attacking Joffrey - nothing was done well.
Writers have been trying real bad to get story where they need it and we know how it ended last time around. Pity.
I thought at first, Matt Smith was talking to the princess, then the quick motions were someone attacking him, the next thing I see is Crispin beating Joffrey, and thought "Oh, Joffrey just tried to kill her uncle maybe for looking like he was about to do something." But the scene has a cut in it and Matt Smith is just gone. You don't see him wounded or crawling away. He's just gone. I was waiting for it to get to, "And I saw Joffrey with his knife in his hand approach the prince and princess..."
Thank you for calling out the bullshit instead of blind praise I see most reviewers do.
Amen. Shame so many others in this comment section are falling over themselves to defend the bad writing. I’m not a fan of newly introduced characters dying same episode (Rhea’s exit was hasty too). It feels cheap.
This dude has been hating on every channel since the first episode lol
@@djmatchstickman I think they're giving more than what's provided by Fire & Blood so it's not that deep you're getting hella emotional
Ser Criston doesn’t have sex for years and then sleeps with one of the most beautiful woman in the castle. His mental state makes complete sense. He was probably in love with her the entire time he was serving her. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to believe that’s the case.
Did you even watch the whole scene? Criston is not in love with Rhaenyra, he just feels like marrying her is the only way to restore his sense of honour
I will say that it was pretty big of him to admit the truth of what happened to Alicent. It doesn’t excuse him murdering Joffrey by any means, but it does show what kind of guy he is, or rather WAS.
Criston you can tell from the first episode you meet him, you can tell he had a thing Rhaenyra, and i think Rhaenyra did to so im not to surprised about how he was on the boat , but i do feel like it was to quick and poor writing
That episode actually made me like Sir Criston when I didn’t really care about him much before.
Same. He was the only main character that I could describe in one sentence before this episode. Now he's got some real conflict to him
He is an idiotic kingsguard is what he is. Man punched the future king consort in the face and ruined a future monarchs wedding. I’d be very bad writing if Corlys and her wife just let that slide. Like a commoner punced the heir to the richest and probably the most powerful house😂
@@kieffer4615 nobody cared about that guy lol, I thought it was funny. The wedding was just starting to get really boring.
@@berlin990 ‘nobody’ doesn’t specifically signify about you alone kiddo
@@kieffer4615 You missed the part where his parents didn’t approve of their relationship? Lol they probably saw it as a favor, they wouldn’t do anything about it.
Man screw the haters, at least you were brave enough to put your own opinion out there
Alicent’s entrance gave me goosebumps her presence was incredible. The way she looked at Rhaenyra and called her stepdaughter 🔥
I was so confused when the fight started it came out of nowhere also Daemon suddenly disappeared and left Rhaenyra but I was glad that Harwin rescued her 😍
I loved the expression Harwin made when his father allowed him into the mess. This guy will be a joy to watch in the fight scenes later, just his sheer size and presence is fun to watch
@@kaades_ yes definitely. He doesn’t even need any dialogue to have a strong presence. Looking forward for more interactions between him and Rhaenyra
🎉🎉c
Yeah at first I thought Daemon kidnapped her but he disappeared so I wonder what that's about.
@@kaades_ I'm sure Rhae will love his size too ;) lmfao.
THANK YOU. I thought I was going crazy thinking how ridiculous this episode was.
Great review. I felt the same about Ser Criston and Rhaenyra dialogue. Silly and sophomoric. Then the bizarre non-repercussion murder that ruined a royal wedding banquet. They indicated that it can be lawless, but that's ridiculous, especially with his friendship to Laenor. Pretty sure a member of a royal retinue being murdered would only be ok if sanctified by the King. Bizarre and made me think this was the first big miss of the show. Book death is way better.
Would've liked a little more about the necessity of the King going to Driftmark. Why is Viserys so desperate? Because of marriage alliance with Braavos?
Otto was great. The green dress scene was a highlight. The suicide scene was a head-scratcher and shouldn't have happened.
I don't understand how they're going to brush away ser criston hitting the king consort across the face, sorry that doesn't remotely add up.
Finally someone says it, I think the writing was weaker in this episode and did leave me feeling puzzled. The time jumps really do disrupt the flow of the story, and sometimes it feels like not much time has passed when in fact it has, and other times it's vague whether it's been weeks, months or years since the events of the last episode, save for one line of exposition. There are plot holes that are ignored, questions left unanswered, and things that are set up that don't seem to have consequences or conclusions. Of course this is only like 5% out of the overall story and narrative, but they're enough to take me out of the immersion and leave me confused, so much that I have to ask other people to fill in the blanks, because I don't read the books or having much knowledge about the story, if something isn't shown or told in the show itself I'm clueless. I'm surprised at the way things played out at the wedding and not really in a good way, because I was expecting more to happen based on what's been set up and what the stakes are. Instead we got love sick horny Criston beating the ever loving shit out of Joffrey 2.0 and it came across as really random and unsatisfying seeing how we only met the guy this episode, and as you say, it's supposed to be relatively soon after episode 4 and Criston is this madly in love? I get that it has a lot to do with his honour and his vows, which he broke, and his guilt over that, and maybe he thought he was fucked either way, but it just felt so out of place and I was expecting Daemon to do something crazy at the wedding or for someone to announce Rhaenyra and Laenor's dirty secrets and fighting would break out, but no, the conflict that has been brewing for 5 episodes is unresolved before the decade long time jump and a conflict that started 5 minutes ago ends abruptly and unexplained. Idk maybe it's just me but I don't get why people are saying this episode is spectacular. Like it was very good but nothing groundbreaking and I was expecting more to come out of this stage of the story, especially as we're saying goodbye to Milly and Emily
It's like the show runners don't give a shit about fans who don't read the books. It's like "meh if you don't get it, too bad"
@@Ready-ForTheEnd it'd be hypocritical of me to condemn them for this because usually franchises spit in the face of fans of the source material, but there needs to be a middle ground where you don't need an advanced degree to understand the context and subtext of a show based on a book/movie/game, but it should make sense within the context of the show itself
First time in a while I have legitimately “””smashed””” a like button
This episode was honestly such a letdown for me after a great start to the show. Hopefully they'll avoid these cheap plot twists in the future. I don't know how people can even defend this. His honor... really? He didn't bother to think for a second how it would ruin Rhaenyras life or cause a war over the crown once she's accused of sleeping with a kingsguard before marriage? It's honorable to smash a mans skull at a royal wedding, at which he's supposed to be the guard? He was acting braindead throughout the whole episode...
You are acting braindead right now
i love how you describe what was going through my head while watching haha.. I feel like your entire video is my thoughts
I liked that he was about to commit sepuku, basically trying to restore his lost honor with his own death. It makes sense why he snapped, his honor was the only thing he had to his name, at least with no honor he could have run away with Renyra, but when he lost that too, he had nothing left to lose.
Another weird thing with Criston's reaction is the delay in it. It started with him just looking bothered after Joffrey talked to him and cut to different scenes and then suddenly it's back to them again with no buildup to Criston snapping.
Don’t wanna be mean but I think you missed the mark with this episode. It made clear sense to me why he did it even if it was a poorly thought out question to Rheanyra. Characters can ask dumb questions and do dumb things too! It wouldn’t be fun all the time if they were all smart lol
Great video , commentary is spot on
No
@@aureum7479 yes.
Bad, bad, terrible writing this episode. But I always knew they were going to have problems with Ser Criston's transition. But they absolutely botched it. He should have been put in the dungeons immediately. Season 8 level writing.
It's not that deep my guy hold your breeches lol
Everything in the episodes have been pretty accurate so far according to the books and references. That’s just the way George wrote it. It’s book accurate because George is heavily involved.
The tonality and the ambience of the sad montage to end the pre time jump period, with the cursed marriage with Alicent and Cole uniting into a unbreakable bond with the Djawadi music playing is by far the best shot of the season as of now. It's very Shakesperean, especially given what role Criston Cole is going on to play. Blows any crabfeeder battle out of the water. That scene of Otto pleading with Alicent in the rain was the best acted scene so far. The guy who plays Otto, freaking great actor. As far as I'm concerned there's only one side to support, and it's the Greens.
Yes I thought this was a very Shakespearean episode.
I guess the main problem isn't that Ser Criston doesn't have the reasons to do what he has done. But the show didn't give him a proper plot preparation before those sudden turns. GoT S8 lacks the character arc development and the same goes to HoT ep5. This is why many of us aren't very happy abt. We are so afraid that HoT goes down the same routine again.
Hate to be that guy, but it feels like most of the episode went over your head... It was quite apparent Criston struggled with his acts because it defiled his honour and his oath to the Kingsguard. He says multiple times that it's all he's ever had, and that now he's sullied it. He might like Rhaenyra, but he loved his honor and that's why he lashed out the way he did. Joffre was trying to blackmail him, using Criston's honor as a bartering tool. Hence he went berserk. Kinda seemed obvious to me and the people (non-book readers) I watched it with.
Spot on review, very much agree about the jarring pace/transition of time. It feels like this show is moving at a movie's pace.
This whole wedding thing doesn’t make sense to me either but I thought I was the only one based on other reviews of the show 😮
I'm so happy you're reviewing each episode it gives me something to look forward to after the episode haha
Rhaenyra is such an awful character. Well written but awful. She pressured him into bed using her position of authority over him. He broke his vows and she doesn't give a damn about how that affects him or makes him feel. If she were a man, this would be seen as a disgrace. An evil man taking advantage of a woman. She took advantage of him,used him then tossed him out like trash.
Loved the episode. I stan Criston and Alicent. And it was their episode. It was sad beautiful and poetic. It's greens forever.
It was a great episode despite unanswered questions and awkward situations. Love your snark and breakdown. The Green Wedding wasn’t as horrific as I anticipated it be by GOT’s track record’☮️🐉
It was never about love for Criston Cole though. It was about honor or rather what he perceives as honor. Even when he proposes his marriage his reasoning is that it will help redeem his honor rather than because of love. When Rhaenyra shoots him down he keeps talking about how his honor has been sullied and he doesn't care about her predicament. When she comes to him with a reasonable compromise his "honor" won't let him accept that and ironically he calls her selfish. When Alicent calls him he believes death will give him honor which is why he's confessing to her. I'll admit the last ten minutes were a bit too dramatic for my taste but his switch in allegiance makes perfect sense because it shows Alicent as giving him a way to "redeem his honor". As for how he got away with it, it's probably because Alicent will advocate for him to stay and there is no way Corlys is going to ruin the chance of his grandchils being heir because a Kingsguard killed his son's friend. We've seen Kingsguard do worse in GoT, heck Jaime killed a King and still stayed on, and get away with it because who his father was.
AKA, I didn't like the outcome of the episode, therefore it was bad.
When I'm in a shit analysis competition and my opponent is an ASOIAF RUclipsr