Sorry for the crappy audio quality during the "Slow" Pacing section. The music for that chapter got a copyright claim so I tried the new remove song tool that RUclips offers. Unfortunately, it makes it sound like I'm using an Xbox 360 mic.
@@garagegoblin858 i expected her wanting revenge. What happened to "a son for a son"? Now she just gonna betray her entire family like that? Even though she was one of the main conspirators of why this situation happened in the first place??
"YOU ARE THE CHALLENGE AEGON, SIMPLY BY LIVING"- ALICENT, Also.. "Yo bestie come kill my son whom I totally didnt groom or forced to be king, he is evil and I saint"- Alicent from season 2 episode 8
Yeah I remember season 1 vaguely because I haven't rewatched it, but wasn't Aegon trying NOT to be king until Alicent (or maybe it was Otto) talked him into it?
@@tetrorisvolto He had absolutely no ambition or will to be on the throne. He only wanted to be loved and accepted, which is why he fully assumed the role when the crowd cheered at his coronation.
Exactly!!!! This is exactly my problem with Alicent in the show. She's the one that put her children's lives in danger by telling them that Aegon would be King since they were kids. Now that her actions have had consequences, she's ready to throw them under the bus to save her own hide.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 A character being a hypocrite isn't really a problem in and of itself, all people are at one point or another, some more than others. I have more of a problem with the righteousness with which the show depicts said characters, as well as the less than convincing arc to get to the shift in world view (in this case Alicent's). Much like for Daenerys in the infamous city burning scene, it wasn't a problem that she went insane, but that they didn't take their time to properly frame that psychological collapse.
The thing I dislike in season 2 is that show runners made Rhaenyra look like a good person. While almost everyone from Green side are evil. Even though in books she had many flaws that made her feel like a real human being.
In the books, she is such an asshole that she almost feels unreal. In the show, she is the option I (and I guess most people) would opt to vote for if this was an election, sure, as the less bad choice, but she's not perfect, and (I hope) will eventually get to the point one would not choose to vote for her, not even against Aegon.
Her character was too passive, yet because she is the star of the show we spent a lot of time with her, so naturally that dragged. fyi in 2 seasons of HOTD, we have seen more of Rhaenyra than Dany, Jon or Tyrion by the time 2nd season of GOT ended. Yet those characters went through A LOT in their respective journeys. They should have used Luke's death as a trigger for her madness, that would have been epic
Look at the demographics of "House Black" (wink wink) and "House Green." House Green is a bunch of straight white males, and House Black is... mostly other demographics. And one of the remaining white guys is a complete buffoon (obviously, just like in real life wink wink) and is about to betray Rhaenyra and head over to the evil side where he belongs. Was there any doubt who the show would paint as the good side and the bad side? It's the 2020s. Woke messaging is baked into everything at this point.
I'm ngl, I don't really like Rhaenyra. She comes across as weak and passive, yet at the same time not open to taken advice from her Small Council. She doesn't have what it takes to be a good ruler. Daemon is my favourite black.
It still feels like Aegon is a stronger protagonist than Rhaenyra and Alicent. He has flaws, he has character growth, he struggles, he overcomes. Rhaenyra basically fails upwards.
@@george4821it never happened that was a set up by Mysaria to cause division within the Hightower house because why else would the writers invent that for the show to destroy the character, at least that's what I will tell myself so I can still enjoy the character.
@@d4darwin458 Jaeherys is basically Rickon Stark of the show. They both are still kids and then they die anddd everyone forgets about them already like they don't even exists.
Remember the twins that died this season? I don't 💀 💀 what a waste of deaths for them and Jahaerys, none of them impactful or meaningful. We barely see halaena talk, and we all hated aegon, until AFTER his son was murdered, then his actor started performing insanely well, and we kinda like him, but the point is, the deaths weren't impactful, cuz we don't care about the person dying, nor the people mourning the death of the character. Imagine in GOT if robbed died in the first 3 episodes. What a waste
@@margarethmichelina5146 but Rickon's family at least avenged him. Jon Snow didn't want to besties eith Ramsay. Alicent wants to run away with Rhaenyra and Helaena gives encouragement to Jahaerys' killer.
As underwhelmed as I was with HOTD S2’s finale, no one will convince me that it’s in any way worse than the Dorne plot in S5 or the Faceless Men plot in S6 or the “bring a wight to Cersei” tomfuckery from S7. Never mind anything from S8.
@@gloomy6379 Just because some parts were bad does not erase the good parts. You are acting like there isn’t a difference between a mixed bag, and “hot garbage.” GoT season 5 is a mixed bag, GoT season 8 is hot garbage. Huge difference there.
Alicent selling out her kids is definitely on par with that. The character has been poorly written since the Green coup and this is just pure character assassination.
@@gloomy6379 No, they're just critiquing people who are trying to claim that the writing was on-par with or worse than GoT's final seasons, not that the writing is "fine" because we've seen worse lol
The problem with this season is that it feels nothing matters. Blood and Cheese should've been a traumatic experience and a point of no return, instead Helaena is barely phased by it and Alicent seems to not care. You would think she would stab Rhaenyra to death after something like that. Daemon spends the whole season on shrooms, Rhaena spends the whole season bitching until she stumbles upon a dragon, Jace spends the whole season bitching, Rhaenyra is just standing there, her biggest accomplishments are the two dumbest scenes in the show [sept and kissing scenes]. The showrunners thought we needed 10 minutes of Abigail Thorn reminding us she's in fact Philosophy Tube, I'm surprised she didn't just wink at the camera and tell me to subscribe, instead of showing us how Otto got captured. The priorities are out of whack and I can barely remember what the hell happened in the season.
I know a lot of ppl are complaining about no action and the season being too slow, but I care more about keeping some of the characters' main motivations and not just making it all about the prophecy. For example, what abt Nyra's rage for her son, Alicent's desire to protect her children from s1, etc.
Biggest waste of time ever. They had him tripping his balls out at Harrenhal without doing anything of importance the ENTIRE season. Instead of making a proper betrayal which would’ve made things 10x more entertaining
The writers making Rhaenyra a peaceful, pacifistic protagonist and doing a 180 on how she is in the book makes show Allicent much more understandable but it's truly frustrating when Aemond and Aegon alone are shown as murderers who care little for the small folk when Rhaenyra was exactly the same.
@@frankvandorp2059 Sure but she still had no problem that 90% of them would be burned to death, she basically ran a hunger games for small folk to find dragon riders. And speaking of hunger games, Rhaenyra is the one blockading kings landing and causing a lot of small folk to starve as well. The whole reason Hugh Hammer volunteered to go was because his family was starving in kings landing as a result of Rhanerya’s blockade.
Even if u haven't read the books, Rhaenyra is not like the one in season one. They showed her as a rebel so this whole "peace and love" character surprising coming into season 2
Why does Alicient get Soo much screen time, precious screen time that could be comitted to developing aemond, Jace, corlys, baela, Adam, ulf and other more integral characters.. Alicient role is basically being a nothing burger once the war starts
Well considering aegon is pretty much bed ridden. Give me more fantastic acting by Olivia Cooke over the near on laughable and unnecessarily long scenes in Tyrosh in the finale
I wouldn’t kid her screen time if it actually made sense. If she doubled down on her revenge against Rhaenyra holding Awmonds hand as he does terrible things I would personally love it. The books depict her so well, and season 1 gave her a great backstory not in the books. These new writers are jokes
I wouldn’t kid her screen time if it actually made sense. If she doubled down on her revenge against Rhaenyra holding Awmonds hand as he does terrible things I would personally love it. The books depict her so well, and season 1 gave her a great backstory not in the books. These new writers are jokes
I think the the fact that the writers are so stringently trying to force the Rhaenyra and Alicent friendship is what causes most of the issues this season. It is why we couldn't have Rhaenyra be driven by revenge. It is why Alicent isn't angry about Jehaerys' death when Rhaenyra meets her at the sept. It is why we had those two contrived scenes of them meeting. It is why they made both of them the peacemakers of their respective sides, and stripped them of most of their agressive traits. And I would personally call it character assassination. Last season, Alicent was willing to protect Aegon with her life against Meleys, even though she knew who he was, and now she gives him up? Are we saying that losing power and learning she misunderstood Viserys had such an impact on her motherly instincts? Not to mention the fact that Rhaenyra tells her she has to put her sons to the sword, which is exactly what Otto warned her about, and what I thought was the reason the strife between them started to begin with. Edit: spelling
Moreover, think about what Alicent has done to her side. She conspired to enthrone Aegon, contrary to his wishes, she never prepared him to rule, so it is no wonder he sucks at it, but she tolerates it so long as she feels she can control him. Once she loses this, she betrays her entire family so that she can be free. That is vile.
It should really be about that friendship falling apart and two loving friends turning into bitter foes. At this point in the book they both absolutely despise each other.
Yes. And it's not just the 'it is not like in the book' argument. The story is clearly structured in such a way to force them to hate each other more and more. The fact that they don't makes all the deaths and the usurping of the throne ring hollow.
@@NX37B Yeah absolutely the story is just dramatically weaker without the animosity between Alicent and Rhaenyra. They already deviated a lot with Alicent "misunderstanding" Visery's last words instead of actively scheming to put Aegon on the throne but that was fine because she still had the conviction that Viserys meant Aegon and that drove her. Now she just seems to stumble around into situations and conflicts with no agency of her own.
@@andreaplavkova1037 From the interviews, it seems like Alicent didn't expect Aegon to escape. Next season, the Blacks will use it as an excuse for all the beheadings when they take Kings Landing and it will look like Alicent's fault since she had already agreed for Aegon's execution.
Alicent DID bring it up in their first meeting in episode 3, and Aegon basically went insane with rage, which culminated in him getting smoked at rook’s rest…so idk why people act like “no one cares” just because they don’t bring it up every scene…it’s not like they bring up Lucerys’s death much either…they are gone and the war is moving on now.
It was stupid but at least it was fast with litteraly no consequences at all, it was even kinda useful because Alicent realized she was wrong. Season 7 plot made them loose a DRAGON, a priest and the fcking Wall
I did not like Daemon and Rhaeyrna’s reunion. We spend the entire season of him being haunted by ghosts(which I didn’t mind) and you expect that it’s those reasons why he returns with her. But then he touches a tree, sees the future and then finally decides to support her? Just makes everything seem like a waste of time in comparison and takes some agency away from Daemon.
Yep. It's not actual character development for Daemon but he was *forced* to submit to Rhaenyra by this stupid dream. And that makes his whole time in Harrenhall pointless.
Tbf I do think he needed to see those visions to actually accept the final vision. That being said I agree that showing The Long Night does cheapen it a bit and the arc itself didn't warrant a season of Daemon doing nothing.
Yeah to me that weirwood tree scene with daemon is almost as bad as the reunion scene with alicent & rheanyra😂 it pretty much diminished the arc they gave him this entire season because he does not bend the knee to rhaenyra cause he has faced his demons & has become a better person, but because he knows scary ice zombies are coming soon
The problem isn't the slow pacing, the problem is that the season is boring. The dialogue is boring, there's no tension, there's no seriousness. Early GOT was slow-paced but the dialogue was so good that no one minded the slow pacing
All the dialogue scenes with Aegon were great. Same with Aemond. Idk how people dismiss all the good shit that happened in season 2 just because of a stupid agenda
Here's my problem with Alicent: she takes no responsibility or accountability for how Aegon turned out. Viserys and Alicent were TERRIBLE parents to their kids. She does seem to acknowledge this when she speaks to Gwayne. If she were truly repentant, she would acknowledge her role in this war. She would submit herself to justice and do everything in her power to save her kids knowing it was her fault.
EXACTLY. Had Alicent offered to sacrifice herself after helping them take kings landing that might have been enough to save the scene but now they just make Alicent out to be a selfish person who only wants to save herself after she was the main culprit of causing all of this. It just makes no sense given her past characterization.
Exactly, she literally poisoned her children against Rhaenyra for years, that's why it makes no sense for her to have only usurped Rhaenyra's throne because of a 'prophecy', when she's shown multiple times in the show trying to convince Viserys that he'd made a bad decision with naming Nyra as heir. They should've stuck to the book when it comes to Alicent because the show makes her character seem so strange in her ambitions.
The worst part is that her lack of responsibility could’ve been an interesting source of conflict between aegon and alicent, instead they just made aegon as just kinda annoyed with her
'Alicent is a morally good character' Have to disagree on this, she likes to THINK she is moral to give her justification for pursuing her own ends. I feel she comes to Rhaenera not because of some moral code, but because she has been shut out by the greens and fears for her, and her brood's life. Let's not forget she goads her son into going to war - getting him maimed and then finally giving him up to be executed in order to save her own skin. She is entirely selfish and sanctimonious
Not just Aegon. She tells her all about Aemond’s war plans. And that also means her youngest and kindest son Daeron will also be on the chopping block. Alongside her lover Criston Cole and her own brother, both of whom fighting under Aegon’s banners. SHE SOLD HER WHOLE FAMILY OUT. For her and Helena and maybe her granddaughter? Who knows no one even acknowledges her at all
Alicent only goes to Rhaenyra when she's been stripped of her power. If they had somehow chosen her as Regent or if she were as influential as she seemed to be in Fire and Blood, she would have never deflected to Rhaenyra. Olivia Cooke didn't deserve this. Emma D'Arcy did not deserve such pathetic writing.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ Wrong she sent an olive branch in the form of a letter and Rhae refused to look at it for weeks, by then it as too late. Like Dameon said " the mother grieves whilst the queen shirks her duties" or whatever it was.
This season definitely had pointless scenes that werent needed like Rhaenyra kissing Mysaria, Lannister mud wrestling, their conversation at the Sept of Baelor. These are just off the top of my head but you can clearly see how these scenes can be traded for something better like Aemond burning sharppoint.
"My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter ... but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home."
@@gerryfegan3608 Lord Manderly. In the books his house is pretending to get along with the Freys while secretly plotting against them (ref Grand Northern Conspiracy)
You're way too kind to this trainwreck of a season. Alicent character assassination is absolutely GoT season 8-esque. So are Rhaenyra's Scooby Doo missions. And the heavy handed feminism. And that nothing of a burger finale..
My biggest problem with the show is the motivations of Alicent and Rhaenyra. They are made the figureheads of their respective houses, but all animosity between them from S1 is gone. Peace talks after your son and grandson are murdered by each other’s parties?! Why are the writers scared to depict them as ambitious/entitled rivals for power, instead making them tragic personality vacuums, who are often overruled by the men in their respective councils. Narratively I think positioning the show as Rhaenyra vs Aegon, with Alicent as a lesser but still influential role, was the far more logical approach. I finished S2 not understanding why anybody actually wants to go to war anymore…
They just completely whitewashed their characters and made them boring as a result. In the book both of them are selfish and deplorable people. They don't have good intentions, do the right thing and try to prevent a war they are simply entitled and hungry for power and are willing to do everything to seize it. There are no good guys in the Dance of the Dragons. It was a senseless conflict born out of decadence. That's really the whole point.
@@amysteriousviewer3772Completely agree. It’s like the writers don’t think we’re capable of engaging with content that doesn’t have an obvious hero for us to root for, which is massively detrimental to both their characterisations. Cersei vs Margaery is a somewhat okay comparison; two ambitious, scheming and morally grey/evil female characters, but with clear motivations and people love their relationship and rivalry.
@@prettyboyg1278 They do it with all the characters though not just the women. Every decision a character makes that leads to a bad outcome is almost always chalked up to either a misunderstanding or miscommunication. It's never just a character making a morally questionable decision for their own gain. It's always a character trying to do the right/just thing that leads to "unintended" bad outcomes. That could be an interesting dilemma for one character but when it's every character it just becomes stale and contrived.
@@amysteriousviewer3772 It's still mainly the women tho If you pay attention, the majority of men in power are mostly portrayed as sexist, incompetent, blood thirsty and battle hungry, pressuring the women to go to war. No matter If it's Aegon, Aemond, Daemon, Alicent's council or Rhaenyra's council. The entire theme of 'mothers comitting atrocities in the name of their families' got watered down, in order to make room for both Rhaenyra and Alicent to be more sympathetic and to get the 'women good' message across.
Say what you will about Cersei, she would’ve stuck by her children regardless. Alicent basically forcing Aegon to take the throne and then straight up betraying her whole family was just strange. At least face the consequences of your choices
... and she betrays him after him having lost his heir, his manhood, and having been burned by the closest thing to nuclear fire in Westeros.... It's bad writing to me... The Alicent of the second half of the season is a completely different Alicent. The writers should've continued writing her from the point of view that she knew she misunderstood Viserys, but it was too late to turn back..
@@LoKimLinProject she still should take responsibility for her children. She is the one who raised them into the monsters, telling all sorts of vile things and wild accusations about their kin into their ears. Instead we get a tragic heroic music over her standing at a shore. Are they implying we should root for this abomination of a person?
@@LoKimLinProjectsame woman who shielded him against a dragon? And what about her other sons? Surely the implication of Rhaenyra's words isn't lost on you as well. If Aegon is a threat to her claim then so is Aemond and Daeron. What then? Alicent agreeing to this without seemingly realizing the severity of the situation for all of her sons is pure utter stupidity. Even if you want to argue about Aemond being a psychopath so he's deservingof it, what about Daeron then? Are we gonna be playing the 'Alicent hates her son' excuse again?
@@LoKimLinProjectLets be real. Nobody seemed to care that Aegon r**** some girls. They only cared that nobody noticed. I dont think that shocked anyone. They were annoyed by Aegon and that he cant control His cock. They told this so the watchers can hate him freely. Team Green never had a chance 😅
I love how you say Daemon's sidequest was necessary yet you only focus on and praise the Oscar scene which is at the very end and has absolutely nothing to do with the visions.
Alicent went from shielding Aegon from a dragon to Aegon finally getting burnt and now she is barely there for him. What was the point of that scene then? The problem with Alicent's character is that she has always been a mess. She spent so many years hating on Rhaenyra and making her life hell. She psychologically terrorized Aegon when he was a child that his half sister will kill him one day for simply existing. Her father warned her about that and that's why she decided to wear the green dress. Rhaenyra marrying Daemon, Viserys giving two fucks about Aemond losing an eye, Laenor disappearing suddenly, Vaemond getting killed should have brought something out of Alicent but she suddenly warms up to Rhaenyra at the banquet because Viserys gave some short emotional speech. Then she is shocked to see that people have been plotting to put Aegon on the throne. What was she doing for so many years then? And she has praising Viserys so much when Viserys ignored her children and always favoured Rhaenyra. She is roasting Aegon for not being like him when Aegon was never acknowledged by his father. Then she spends the entire season complaining and whining about the men shunning her but when Aegon actually asks her for advice she shuts him down. And now worse she has sold out all her sons to be assassinated. They had a perfect sympathetic, vile, hateful villainous character but Alicent is now boring, pathetic, lame and i am not at all interested in her arc anymore. She is mediocre at best.
Exactly this!!! Season 1 Alicent (till before the banquet) was extremely sympathetic. She went through a lot of sh*t, so her turning into this bitter, self-righteous, hateful b*tch towards Rhaenyra out of jealousy made perfect sense. We didn't hate her guts entirely for it because we understood the sh*t Otto and Viserys put her through. She was a flawed antagonist that people could root for, because she was technically in the right (and I say this as a Team Black supporter). Season 2 took that gold mine of a character arc and turned that to absolute dragon sh*t.
17:28 The fans expected action and battles because the last thing we saw in season 1 was a Rhaenyra death stare. Instead, what we got is a tree-hugging Rhaenyra which kept having these self-righteous monologues about avoiding war and destruction to save "ze peepol". And not a single one of her councelors actually called her out on her inaction (besides the typical lampshading)
They did but the showrunners made them cartoonishly sexist so the audience wouldn't take their side. And every named character falls in line with Rhaenyra because god forbid we have character conflict.
@@unc54Yeah, that's exactly what I mean't by "typical lampshading". For example: Jace: You went to meet Alicent ? Rhae rhae: I had to make sure I could avoid war and destruction Possible Jace answers: A) You could have gotten captured, you idiot B) We're already at war, idiot C) If you want to avoid wider war and destruction, do a decapitation strike on King's Landing before Green armies have the time to mobilize. idiot D) My mother has proven incapable of ruling in times of war. I demand this council make me Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm for the duration of this conflict. E) So, did you make sure we can avoid war? Is your answer E ? Then congratulations, you've just lampshaded an important plot point with the least consequences possible
It's especially ridiculous because then we have scenes like Rhaenys in the dragonpit just slaughtering innocent civilians for no reason but then we are suddenly supposed to care about the smallfolk.
Alicent meeting Rhaenyra in Dragonstone is the most pointless scene I've ever seen. She was the main reason Aegon 2 became the king. She dragged him into this and now she wants to relieve all this and let Aegon 2 die in the hands of Rhaenyra.
@@DuneLover1472makes no sense though, she knew Aegon was incompetent, none of what happened is an actual surprise. That is the huge problem with making Alicient a saint
Daemon's arc is great. He supports Rhaenyra. He thinks she is being weak so he leaves. He spends 6 episodes on a dream like stupor. He supports Rhaenyra.
His support before wasn't full as rhanyra herself says , he was doing it for himself , she said something like having a sword in his heart. Now he does it for her. And he said , it's his brothers throne in episode 2 meaning he was only fighting to protect his brothers throne now he defends his wives throne. Massive difference
- Gets a life changing vision by touching a tree conveniently just before rhaenyra arrives so he can pledge his allegiance to her without any consequences of his actions the past 8 episodes
Nah the first 7 episodes were not perfect but still really good, episode 2 & 4 were comparable to early game of thrones in terms of quality. episode 8 was just really where everything came crashing down
This season achieved close to nothing - I can rock with 8 episodes of talking, pretty easily, but if after 8 episodes of talking I can't tell u ANYTHING about Rheanyra's allies, and if after 8 episodes of talking, half of the main characters arcs barely moved - then it's a huge failure. What was especially annoying, is that I felt like all of the subplots were suuuper rushed - if there is close to nothing happening, why are we rushing interesting/fun bits like Tyland and Lohar and giving it 10 minutes of screen time with zero time to breathe? GOT was at its best with those goofy unlikely duos.
I would have loved to see side quests of these “lesser characters” like Jace and Creagan in the north. In the books Jace reportedly takes a lover there which would add personality to his character. Or showing characters bonding with their dragons so it actually hurts when they go to war. Or having Harrenhall be actually nightmarish both for Daemon and the audience. Nobody got a spooky vibe from it, instead everyone was tired of the visions that felt repetitive. There’s literally so much the writers could have done so that the audience would have something to sink their teeth into and yet they chose the Alicent and Rhaenyra friendship which doesn’t even make sense anymore.
You still don't seem to understand that alicent giving up aegon & aemond doesn't just go against her book characterisation, it goes against her season 1 characterisation as well. Alicent knew her children were bad people (a lot of that was due to her & viserys parenting) but she STILL willingly put them on the throne & forced them to fight in this war cause according to her their lives were in danger. Her giving them up this easily makes no sense especially if the excuse is them being bad people (something she already knew for years). She also loved them despite their flaws. This is the same woman who stood in front of a dragon for aegon like 3 weeks ago
Yes!!! I was so dumbfounded by "Alicent" in episode 8 that I decided to listen to the book. I was annoyed by book readers comments during the whole season but now I know why they were so pissed. This Alicent is nothing like the one in season 1. I would argue that it's the same for Rhaenyra.
I even feel like season 2 Rhaenyra feels like a different character. The only character who completely changes their way of being that works is Daemon because he saw a GoT sizzle reel 😂
Knowing how game of thrones is written, he passiveness and lack of ruthlessness is going to bite her in the ass in the future. I don’t think the show is black and white, if Rhaenyra was truly a good person she wouldn’t have sent hundreds to their death to find dragon riders.
you didnt seem to watch season two at all??? I feel like releasing the episodes weekly made everyone forget what happened in the last, this entire season was spent building that event up for alicents character...what show were you watching??
@@xxwhispersxx2856thank you! I cant even understand the joffrey discussions. Joffrey actively liked inflicting pain in others. Aegon simply wants love and attention and cries most the time
@@ajduongguess it's a good thing it already had 4 seasons of being the greatest show ever aired before then. What does HotD have besides the waning steam from GoT? If you really think about it, this season only expands on the issues clearly present in s1. It's just harder to notice because of the dialogue, pageantry, and aforementioned steam.
Allicent was never a morally good character and them making her motivation a misunderstanding makes no sense allicent is planning to userp rahnerya the whole back half of season one them trying to make it seem like she doesn't want the war to happen when shes the driving force behind ageon being on the throne at all its just bad writing how can people defend this
The dialogue was flat, the writing was ChatGPT worthy, but with even less sense. The world feels smaller. None of this is the fault of the actors and actresses, or the amazing production team.
Feel like season 2 of HotD is on a similar level as season 5 of GoT. It has good things but also has flaws. Overall the pacing is a bit too slow in both.
True, but even then... At least Season 5 ended with some pretty entertaining television like "Hard Home" and the season finale where Jon gets betrayed by the Knights Watch. While House Of Dragon couldn't even end its own season on a satisfying note. Honestly, this might be the most disappointing season of Television I've seen in awhile, and not just because the season was slow, but because I had high hopes that the writers knew what they were doing after Season 1 and would have a great direction for the series. Although, after this season... Those hopes are unfortunately crushed for me. Season 3 could be good, but I'll always see Season 2 as more of a stain on this series, rather than a compelling and interesting season of television like Season 1
@@ianmcclure3936 Well yeah and season 2 of HOTD has a lot of entertaining stuff like rooks rest in ep. 4 and the dragon taming in ep. 7…or Daemon pledging to Rhaenyra in ep. 8. So I don’t think that’s much of a difference compared to season 5 of GOT…that season ended on a major cliffhanger and had you looking forward to the next season. HOTD didn’t execute the cliffhanger very well, but it definitely has me looking forward to season 3. Idk why everything has to be either peak masterpiece television, or terrible worst thing ever created…it was overall just a mixed bag season.
@@ianmcclure3936 Ok well there’s a big difference between being a “disappointment” as in it’s not as good as peak game of thrones or HOTD season 1….and “disappointment” as in having a quality decline like season 8 GoT.
Amazing how civil R+A were during their confrontation. I mean, Rhaenyra had her child basically chomped up and eaten while Alicent's grandchild was freakin decapitated just a few weeks earlier. Its like they didn't care at all.
She does, but Helaena mostly just chilled in the background up until the finale with Aemond. Alicent tho was more active in speaking out against the Green Council before being pushed out by them.
"They take stuff from the books when it suits them" "They take stuff from GOT when it suits them" "They kill great book characters early when it suits them" and " They ruin endings when it suits them" Yarn talking to the Wildings Dan, Dave, and Ryan.
That's my biggest fear, they spent all the money on the Battle of Rooks Rest....... How will they do more battles in season 3, unless they increase the budget like crazy!
It's not mixed, it's bad. I remember when S7 aired, a lot of people were forgiving in the moment. Hindsight bad writing breeds more bad writing. Making the two women protagonists saints keep creating problems, when Miguel left the show, it was a huge red flag. HOD is very screwed, and a handful of good scenes won't save bad writing.
@@jam8539season 1 was good , Miguel was there. Miguel left, season 2 completely lost the tone... Not saying it's a perfect correlate, but if allowing his wife have a few background scenes is the price to pay for consistency then so be it
Exactly. This reminds me an awful lot of the GoT fans who were heaping praise on that show right up until 'The Bells' episode, of 'The Long Night' if I'm being more charitable.
More like Team Straight White Male vs team DEI. They already made Ulf a complete buffoon who is obviously going to betray Rhaenyra and head over to the evil side to even the dragon odds, and Jace is a weak pouty bitch with a small dragon who probably won't be a factor. So with two more white males off the roster and the slow-playing of Rhaena getting her inevitable dragon comes to an end, "Team Black" is about to reflect the representation and diversity we've come to expect from anything made in the 2020s. All we need is the trans Triarchy war leader to switch sides and we're all set. I should be a writer for this show.
They straight up ruined Rhaenyra's character. In general they made the Greens villains and the Blacks heroes and it really waters down the story. Thid was a problem in season 1 tho, they made Aegon a sadistic prick who gets off to child gladiator matches. Even Daemon causing the blood & cheese event can be written off as not what he intended.
Daemon 100% knew what he was doing and it’s made pretty clear in the show… one of the assassins literally mentions that Daemon said “a son for a son” and they cut off Jaehaerys head specifically so they still get their payment. So that’s one thing they got right I guess.
It depends, shows are different than books. A good actor can completely recontextualize a character to the point where it would be smart to utilize the character more in the show. Examples of characters that are more prominent in the show than the books and turned out good: king Viserys, ser Davos, Greyworm, Robb stark and Bronn.
@@donovan4222 Utilizing the character more just because their actor is killing it is how you get Season 7 and 8. When the world revolves around your character and is bending backwards to push the plot forward is when you know your show is f*cked.
@@Ducky-vl7mp That’s not true at all, George RR Martin even admitted that king Viserys was better in the show because of the actors performance and liberties that the writers took with the character. GoT season 7 and 8 was just bad because the writing was bad…but even then some of the characters were improved from the books. Lady Olenna Tyrell was one of the greatest characters in the entire show even in the bad seasons….and in the books she is pretty much just an annoying old lady. In fact the Tyrell’s in general were done better in the show I think besides Loras.
@@donovan4222 Ok and? Paddy did an amazing job but there was also strong writting to back him up. All his scenes made sense and served a purpose. Meanwhile Rhaenyra, Daemon and Alicent all got over 1 hour of screen time in Season 2 which consists of going in circles and doing the same thing for Rhae and Dameon while Alicen't screen time is pure filler where she goes camping and takes baths. They could've used that time to develop other characters who are actually major players in the Dance.
4:13 did you forget about Daeron? So did Alicent I guess. Edit: Alicent trading her sons' lives for her freedom is not earned. I would absolutely call it character assassination.
I feel that the storylines of Alicent and Rhaenyra lost a lot of quality because the writers wanted to turn them into victims of the situation to fit the narrative theme of 'a woman displaced from power due to the patriarchy.' I hope they can correct this in the third season, but I doubt it, based on what I saw in the 'Inside the Episode.' Condal and Hess seem to love that plot and the dynamic between the characters too much.
Everyone with the exception of Alicent and Rhaenyra are massively underdeveloped. And those 2 are the most boring characters. Also Daemon's dreams were completely pointless. They build up his betrayal for 5 episodes only for him to end up doing nothing. Also the riverlords said they'd only follow Rhaenyra so he couldn't have claimed that army as his own even if he wanted to. Corlys's never talks to any of his grandkids other than Baela once in the span of 2 seasons, Halaena talks to her brothers each once across 2 seasons, Daemon never talks to his kids, the dragons have yet to be developed in the slightest. They're building up this war but not the characters in it other than Rhaenyra and Alicent. No one seems to have much of a relationship with one another. Also the casting could've been a bit better but that's a nitpick. Alicent looks the same age as her kids, probably because the actress is 1 year older than them, and Baela when she's with Rhaenys and Daemon looks so out of place that you almost forget that they're related
The thing I personally dislike is Rhaenyra. The writers are clearly trying to set her up as this virtuous ruler who cares for the innocent, while in fact her actions show the opposite. Don’t tell me you are unwilling to sacrifice innocent people after watching the bastards get burnt alive. Also her just kind of forgetting about her son dying is weird, and putting all the blame on Daemon when he took action on something she commanded makes her look like a hypocrite. Team Green all the way, at least they are not NPCs.
It feels like they adapted what could’ve been 2-3 episodes worth of material from the book and then just added on needless changes and expanded wheel spinning material to the point of the season feeling way too slow and at a lost for any momentum. I get that this seasons production wasn’t very smooth with the strikes, WB’s financial woes and changes in creative staff but it feels like they’re not situated to appropriately bring this story to life.
Sorry, but I can't imagine watching season 2 again. Ayln & co on the docks the entire season... Alicent, cole and gyawne hanging out in the KL landing over and over and over... Daemon having a *moment* in harrenhal that lasts the entire season... Rhanerya puttering and moping about... Rhaena looking pained and moping the entire season... Both queens successfully completing moronic stealth missions into the enemy stronghold... Holy hell. This was such a drag... and dumb. Edit: I want to add Larys, Aegon, and Otto are the main reason I will watch season 3. Their actors elevate whatever scenes they are in.
4:20 you mentioned that Alicent may wish to save good hearted innocent Healena,yet what about her youngest son "Doren"(I think) hes a lind heart young lad most importantly "A son" who Alicent seams to forget about
I blame HBO. If they hadn't cut the budget the season wouldn't have felt like a dud at the end. They had originally planned for 2 big episodes to close out...with the finale being the Fall of Kings Landing. Smh
I felt that too, like the last episode was a build up for something and never paid off, any executive who saw that would reject it but I guess budget cuts and the writing strike didn't give them enough time to sit with their decisions and understand what they want to go with this characters.
I feel like the character that got hurt the most by this season was Jace. In the books there’s a lot of focus on him forging alliances and securing support for his mother. After Rook‘s Rest he even more or less takes control over the faction as a whole and it is his idea to test the dragon seeds. He even promises them titles etc. In the show his diplomatic journey got reduced to one scene at the beginning where he got the support of the North without doing anything. Then he secured the Twins because he got bored. Other than that he sits around at Dragonstone mostly complaining about everything. He even dislikes the dragonseeds as they undermine his position. Overall he comes off less like a competent leader who could once become a good king and more like a whining little boy who you just don’t care about. SPOILER!!! Since Jace will likely die early in season 3 (Gullet) I think the showrunners missed an opportunity to portray him as a sympathetic character whose death is a great tragedy for the realm and a huge loss to the Blacks. Now his death will likely not have more impact than the one of Luke as he’s just another son that dies.
They dropped all of Jace's arc because they didn't want to give him individual screen time away from Rhaenyra. They still wanted Rhaenyra to be the "hero" of the story, while Jace was a figure that was a lot more heroic. I mean, even after his and Rhaenyra's deaths, the whole Stark army still came South when they didn't have to anymore. That is saying something about loyalty.
@@xxwhispersxx2856 it‘s a real bummer that they didn’t do him justice. I really think if they did that would reduce the problem of the blacks being a bit boring
You're really underestimating how awful that Alicent/Rhaenyra scene was in the finale. It's season 8 level terrible and completely ruins Alicent as a character for the rest of the show. Simple as that.
I think you might have missed the issues with Daemon’s arc, it’s not scenes without action are the driver for complaints, it’s the way they wrote his character. Man spent the entire season tripping balls and wasting away, when he could have been out in the river lands with the same scenes you enjoyed. Wasted character this season and having a silly vision of Danny and GOT’s being the switch to change his mentality is dumb af, no one wants to revisit the bs that was season 8…
I think that the season has written both Rhaenyra and Allicent into deep holes, and based on what Im seeing in the writer interviews, I'm not convinced they have the aptitude to undo the damage. Rhaennyra and Allicent are both written like they're modern women inserted into a fuedal realm, despite both of them having grown up in it and presumably understanding the name of the game. In a fuedal world, usurpation IS a declaration of war: it is a direct violation of the will of the crown in a world where the crown's authority is law, and that authority is explicitly enforced by their trained warrior class through bloodshed. I'm currently rewatching GOT, and all of the characters, man and woman, understand this well and play within the dynamic competently. On the other hand we have Rheannyra who sits on her hands, neither yielding her claim, nor doing anything meaningful about it while her council BEGS her for orders. In fact, I feel like the real culmination of the arc between Daemon and Rhaennyra was Daemon shedding his ego, and Rheannyra realizing that she isn't actually capable of being a leader of men and realizing she needs Daemon to be that for her. And thats a fine conclusion to come to EXCEPT: tonally this whole season has been painting Rhaennyra as a fucking girlboss when she never actually is. She's a horrifically indecisive leader who's inaction has cost her countless resources, and the respect of her immediate subordinates. Perhaps if the point was Daemon realized he needs her to be the political player while hes the war leader it would all make sense, excep she's a terrible politcal player too. Allicent on the other hand is a truly dillusional political pawn, who burns everything she touches. She was the mfing QUEEN, filled the red keep with the images of her house, played the game to put her son on the throne, but still endlessly plays herself as a victim of her time. Everything she does she takes no agency in, constantly playing it off as someone else's will while simulatneously blaming everyone for taking her agency from her. And in the end she just wanted to be free of it all? What? Where has she been at for the last decade? She wants to enjoy the boons of her house's support and the grace of her kindly king and husband, then commit treason and act like she had no part in any of it? That its just the angry men pushing her around as she falls conveniently into the position that most benefits her at that time? What a miserable, whiney fool. The show wants these characters to be focal points of the conflict and strong agents, while also communicating that they are helpeless to their male-dominated, war-centric society (of which they gladly take the benefits when it suits them). The problem is that the inverse has been de facto true: they are weak individuals who have both had substantial power thrust before them, and who did nothign with it. The dissonance between what the show wants them to be and what they are is destroying the sense of the conflict and their personal relationship.
I can’t even root for Helaena anymore, yes she’s innocent but she seems barely fazed by the death of her son, and instead starts spoiling the show when Aemond attempts to get her to defend her side from all getting killed. She almost feels like a robot like Bran which is getting hard to like.
Episode 8 felt like a fantastic setup to a fantastic action heavy episode 9 and dealing with the and memorable episode 10 dealing with the fallout and setting up what's next. Apparently, that was the plan but HotD got screwed by last minute budget cuts and time constraints.
During story writing,characters should move the plot in the certain way,so it stays orgain.when plot is bent to portray certain characters as this or that,story loses its appeal whatsoever.
15:29 “George wrote that it is going to take 4 full seasons of 10 episodes each to do justice to Dance of the Dragons, start to finish” They’ve deviated from the books.. they’ve denied George’s suggestions
See you in 4 years when this show is done and you start making devoid of logic videos on it. Keep glazing it until you suddenly switch up your opinions in retrospect.
It's like he is trying to convinve himself in this video that the season isn't bad. He is either being paid to give this opinion or he is truly deluded.
Once again, the show-writers think they're better than GRRM's source material. At least GOT took a solid 4 seasons before they got that in their heads. We're only 2 seasons in and already seeing it. Blacks good, Greens evil, plebeian masses get their teams and the terminally online weirdos get their self-righteous egos stroked. I hate the mainstream. Bring back gatekeeping.
About Daemon: You got one thing wrong. He doesn't support Rhaenyra because he is convinced by his wife or his brother - he supports her because of a magical tree vision. And I think that's outrageous.
@@SamirSiraj8542 Right, the "final scene" - where he sees an apocalyptic vision and Rhaenyra on the throne with Haelena whispering "you know your role" - that was just the nail? Stop defending terrible writing.
@@floofyan6727 daemon k1lled the man who supported him and willingly called him king previous episode. Alyss clearly says he has changed. After that man becomes turncloak. He doesn't use that to seize the opportunity. His regrets of not being at viserys's side is solved. He realizes he keep creating problem for his wife. We also see he had some resentment towards rhae for taking his position as heir. He cries after seeing his brother and what he regreted for not being at his side goes away. He learn to rely on other (like one alys). Making peace with himself and his regrets, he learns to rely. Then learning what will happen, he realizes what he must do and he follows rhae. Awesome conclusion.
@@SamirSiraj8542he offed the Blackwood because he didn’t want to lose all the river lands. All that sadness and crying for him to be convinced of a tree vision. You say he changed but the guy was grinning ear to ear hearing that guy say “we need a king”
@@Birdflaps20 did he say he will become king to the turncloak ? He didn't . He changed as alys said. His k1lling the guy who willing called him king is him burying the idea himself. At this point your are making up fanfiction to diss him
I really believe if this season had two more episodes, we would all overlook some of the issues. Warner Bros screwed the writers over, but the writers did not adapt to the limited budget
I don't think it's mixed, it's just overall bad. If you count out the casual audiences that just wanna see dragons and explosions it's not really appealing to anyone, it doesn't have the dialog that early GoT had, it doesn't have rapport with book fans because they aren't faithfully adapting the book. Really if you just discard the people who want to see cgi dragons and explosions, it's not a show that does anything particularly well. Maybe it's not hated, but I definitely don't see anyone praise the show aside from superficialities like music or shot composition.
It’s barely better than GOT season 7 it’s genuine slop, it will take these guys till mid way through season 3 and then they will finally be like wow this shit sucks, because it always does…
@@askholand8132 bro what? Yeah have some patience after they ended the season 2 episodes early without the typical GOT bang ending and then wait 2 years.
@@askholand8132it’s gonna end here I fear. Condal explained they got hit hard by WB’s decidedly more conservative stance on spending. Season 2’s ratings are down next to season 1 so I feel they’ll give them less money which will effectively result in an extremely mild season 3 pre-production leading to the show getting dropped when they realize they can’t tell the story proper.
To be fair, Rhaeneyra told the possible dragonseeds that many will die. She also gave them a chance to leave before if they wanted. They stayed because they wanted to
@@SteveAustin-zv1nn hes not wrong, I wouldnt call the whole season awfull, but the alicent and rhaneyra scenes are on par with the stupidity of season 8.
Hate to break it to you but Daenerys is still gonna go bonkers in the book and Jaime is still going to return to Cersei. I think the circumstances are going to be majorly different tho.
I am surprised at how they could pull such a decent S1 and then make this piece of crap. I'd rate S1 as a 7-7,5; they did a great job with very little source material and managed to make a lot of characters(not nearly as many of them as GOT S1 tough) very interesting, and the interpretations of each main chracter were really good. S2 was a disaster, 4/10. It doesn't even feel like it's the same series... The pacing, the characters, how cheap it feels, and how they're overextending it... It almost feels as if the producers had recieved notice of a third and fourth season in the middle of the S2 production. Disgusting.
Season 2 is like your high school sweetheart leading you on over and over about the “adventure” you will both have on prom night in senior year. Lasted a damn eternity!
Bro talking about redundant scenes but is happy with screentime being wasted in Daimon being on shrooms. We get that the place was haunted. We didn't need so many of them. I dont see complaint about lacking in action. A bunch of nothing happened. Hardly anything had impacts to move the plot forward. "What would you have me do?" At every point
I believe Rhaenys went back to challenge Vaeghar because she felt guilty about not ending him when she had the chance when she escaped in kings landing
11:10 Got to disagree here. If she left the soldiers at Rooks Rest to die it would be an even worse look for Rhaenyra. "We will not protect you if attacked by Vhagar." It could have lost her a lot of support from lesser houses.
Im sorry, but saying it’s worse than the latest seasons of GOt is totally valid, although those were awful the writers had no material to follow, these bozos had a whole book to stick to and create a perfect show.
Sorry for the crappy audio quality during the "Slow" Pacing section. The music for that chapter got a copyright claim so I tried the new remove song tool that RUclips offers. Unfortunately, it makes it sound like I'm using an Xbox 360 mic.
xDD I thought my ears are blocked for a moment
Your video explaining season 2 was entertaining than season 2.
Ubisoft (In a French accent): "No no you cannot zo zis! No no no!"
Alicent: I never really cared for my children, innocent or otherwise.
While Alicent kind of forgot about her son Aegon
Alicent: “I don’t really “want” anymore”
She got her grandson killed, you expected her to be bloodthirsty after indirectly causing that?
@@garagegoblin858she wants to go and grovel at the feet of her grandsons killer while offering the other 3
@@garagegoblin858 i expected her wanting revenge. What happened to "a son for a son"? Now she just gonna betray her entire family like that? Even though she was one of the main conspirators of why this situation happened in the first place??
"YOU ARE THE CHALLENGE AEGON, SIMPLY BY LIVING"- ALICENT, Also.. "Yo bestie come kill my son whom I totally didnt groom or forced to be king, he is evil and I saint"- Alicent from season 2 episode 8
Yeah I remember season 1 vaguely because I haven't rewatched it, but wasn't Aegon trying NOT to be king until Alicent (or maybe it was Otto) talked him into it?
@@tetrorisvolto He had absolutely no ambition or will to be on the throne. He only wanted to be loved and accepted, which is why he fully assumed the role when the crowd cheered at his coronation.
@@tetrorisvoltohe had to be dragged kicking and screaming literally.
Exactly!!!! This is exactly my problem with Alicent in the show. She's the one that put her children's lives in danger by telling them that Aegon would be King since they were kids. Now that her actions have had consequences, she's ready to throw them under the bus to save her own hide.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 A character being a hypocrite isn't really a problem in and of itself, all people are at one point or another, some more than others.
I have more of a problem with the righteousness with which the show depicts said characters, as well as the less than convincing arc to get to the shift in world view (in this case Alicent's).
Much like for Daenerys in the infamous city burning scene, it wasn't a problem that she went insane, but that they didn't take their time to properly frame that psychological collapse.
The thing I dislike in season 2 is that show runners made Rhaenyra look like a good person. While almost everyone from Green side are evil. Even though in books she had many flaws that made her feel like a real human being.
In the books, she is such an asshole that she almost feels unreal. In the show, she is the option I (and I guess most people) would opt to vote for if this was an election, sure, as the less bad choice, but she's not perfect, and (I hope) will eventually get to the point one would not choose to vote for her, not even against Aegon.
Completely correct. a song of ice and fire isnt just black and white
Her character was too passive, yet because she is the star of the show we spent a lot of time with her, so naturally that dragged. fyi in 2 seasons of HOTD, we have seen more of Rhaenyra than Dany, Jon or Tyrion by the time 2nd season of GOT ended. Yet those characters went through A LOT in their respective journeys. They should have used Luke's death as a trigger for her madness, that would have been epic
Look at the demographics of "House Black" (wink wink) and "House Green." House Green is a bunch of straight white males, and House Black is... mostly other demographics. And one of the remaining white guys is a complete buffoon (obviously, just like in real life wink wink) and is about to betray Rhaenyra and head over to the evil side where he belongs.
Was there any doubt who the show would paint as the good side and the bad side? It's the 2020s. Woke messaging is baked into everything at this point.
I'm ngl, I don't really like Rhaenyra. She comes across as weak and passive, yet at the same time not open to taken advice from her Small Council. She doesn't have what it takes to be a good ruler.
Daemon is my favourite black.
It still feels like Aegon is a stronger protagonist than Rhaenyra and Alicent. He has flaws, he has character growth, he struggles, he overcomes. Rhaenyra basically fails upwards.
Nah, they did away with making him a protagonist when they made him a rapist imo. Same with Jamie.
@@george4821it never happened that was a set up by Mysaria to cause division within the Hightower house because why else would the writers invent that for the show to destroy the character, at least that's what I will tell myself so I can still enjoy the character.
yikes take lol
Cant believe the butcher's boy's death from GOT was remembered more by the characters than jaeherys
And that's a fact. I dare anyone to compare this shallow season 2 to prime GOT.
Unalive my childhood acquaintance: “I shall hunt you to the end of the earth til the last of my days!” ❌
Unalive my child: “We’re good.”✅
@@d4darwin458 Jaeherys is basically Rickon Stark of the show. They both are still kids and then they die anddd everyone forgets about them already like they don't even exists.
Remember the twins that died this season? I don't 💀 💀 what a waste of deaths for them and Jahaerys, none of them impactful or meaningful. We barely see halaena talk, and we all hated aegon, until AFTER his son was murdered, then his actor started performing insanely well, and we kinda like him, but the point is, the deaths weren't impactful, cuz we don't care about the person dying, nor the people mourning the death of the character. Imagine in GOT if robbed died in the first 3 episodes. What a waste
@@margarethmichelina5146 but Rickon's family at least avenged him. Jon Snow didn't want to besties eith Ramsay.
Alicent wants to run away with Rhaenyra and Helaena gives encouragement to Jahaerys' killer.
As underwhelmed as I was with HOTD S2’s finale, no one will convince me that it’s in any way worse than the Dorne plot in S5 or the Faceless Men plot in S6 or the “bring a wight to Cersei” tomfuckery from S7. Never mind anything from S8.
Just because GoT was hot garbage do we need to settle for bad writing because it could be worse than GoT. I think not
@@gloomy6379 Just because some parts were bad does not erase the good parts. You are acting like there isn’t a difference between a mixed bag, and “hot garbage.” GoT season 5 is a mixed bag, GoT season 8 is hot garbage. Huge difference there.
Alicent selling out her kids is definitely on par with that. The character has been poorly written since the Green coup and this is just pure character assassination.
Season 5-8 of GOT SUCKS, they should have learned their lessons but NOPE.
@@gloomy6379 No, they're just critiquing people who are trying to claim that the writing was on-par with or worse than GoT's final seasons, not that the writing is "fine" because we've seen worse lol
The problem with this season is that it feels nothing matters. Blood and Cheese should've been a traumatic experience and a point of no return, instead Helaena is barely phased by it and Alicent seems to not care. You would think she would stab Rhaenyra to death after something like that. Daemon spends the whole season on shrooms, Rhaena spends the whole season bitching until she stumbles upon a dragon, Jace spends the whole season bitching, Rhaenyra is just standing there, her biggest accomplishments are the two dumbest scenes in the show [sept and kissing scenes]. The showrunners thought we needed 10 minutes of Abigail Thorn reminding us she's in fact Philosophy Tube, I'm surprised she didn't just wink at the camera and tell me to subscribe, instead of showing us how Otto got captured.
The priorities are out of whack and I can barely remember what the hell happened in the season.
Fking on point brother ❤
The only character that didn’t confuse and infuriate me this season was Aegon and he was written specifically to do that
The ending with a “son for son” and Alicent forgetting about losing a grandson. Bad writing by tv directors.
Now daemon and helaena are friends in the season finale
Rhaenyra also permitted to tame two other big dragons against all odds and everyones opinion. She wasnt THIS useless you got to give her that
I don't care about not having action. I don't need Daemond's 47 dreams to be replaced with action, I just don't want to watch the 47 dreams
If all those 47 dreams were Daemon's mother naked, not just the one, Id have no complaints about them.
And the action needs to be replaced by actually good dialogue and interesting scenes, and it isn't....
The dreams were good for the character arc they had this season
I know a lot of ppl are complaining about no action and the season being too slow, but I care more about keeping some of the characters' main motivations and not just making it all about the prophecy. For example, what abt Nyra's rage for her son, Alicent's desire to protect her children from s1, etc.
Biggest waste of time ever. They had him tripping his balls out at Harrenhal without doing anything of importance the ENTIRE season. Instead of making a proper betrayal which would’ve made things 10x more entertaining
The writers making Rhaenyra a peaceful, pacifistic protagonist and doing a 180 on how she is in the book makes show Allicent much more understandable but it's truly frustrating when Aemond and Aegon alone are shown as murderers who care little for the small folk when Rhaenyra was exactly the same.
I mean Rhaenyra does have a bunch of small folk burned to death by dragons and doesn’t really seem to feel that bad about it…
@@donovan4222 They went in there willingly. The ratcatchers and the people Aemond burned were not willing.
@@frankvandorp2059 Sure but she still had no problem that 90% of them would be burned to death, she basically ran a hunger games for small folk to find dragon riders. And speaking of hunger games, Rhaenyra is the one blockading kings landing and causing a lot of small folk to starve as well. The whole reason Hugh Hammer volunteered to go was because his family was starving in kings landing as a result of Rhanerya’s blockade.
The tv directors are clearly making rhaenyra a “good person” when she is not. Even the iron throne doesn’t like her.
Even if u haven't read the books, Rhaenyra is not like the one in season one. They showed her as a rebel so this whole "peace and love" character surprising coming into season 2
Alicent is ready to kill Daeron to live with her bestie.
Why does Alicient get Soo much screen time, precious screen time that could be comitted to developing aemond, Jace, corlys, baela, Adam, ulf and other more integral characters.. Alicient role is basically being a nothing burger once the war starts
Aegon should be the face of the Green faction, not Alicent
Well considering aegon is pretty much bed ridden. Give me more fantastic acting by Olivia Cooke over the near on laughable and unnecessarily long scenes in Tyrosh in the finale
@@akbersalim9096absolutely, Aegon was the closest we got to a classic GOT character
I wouldn’t kid her screen time if it actually made sense. If she doubled down on her revenge against Rhaenyra holding Awmonds hand as he does terrible things I would personally love it.
The books depict her so well, and season 1 gave her a great backstory not in the books.
These new writers are jokes
I wouldn’t kid her screen time if it actually made sense. If she doubled down on her revenge against Rhaenyra holding Awmonds hand as he does terrible things I would personally love it.
The books depict her so well, and season 1 gave her a great backstory not in the books.
These new writers are jokes
I think the the fact that the writers are so stringently trying to force the Rhaenyra and Alicent friendship is what causes most of the issues this season. It is why we couldn't have Rhaenyra be driven by revenge. It is why Alicent isn't angry about Jehaerys' death when Rhaenyra meets her at the sept. It is why we had those two contrived scenes of them meeting. It is why they made both of them the peacemakers of their respective sides, and stripped them of most of their agressive traits.
And I would personally call it character assassination. Last season, Alicent was willing to protect Aegon with her life against Meleys, even though she knew who he was, and now she gives him up? Are we saying that losing power and learning she misunderstood Viserys had such an impact on her motherly instincts? Not to mention the fact that Rhaenyra tells her she has to put her sons to the sword, which is exactly what Otto warned her about, and what I thought was the reason the strife between them started to begin with.
Edit: spelling
Moreover, think about what Alicent has done to her side. She conspired to enthrone Aegon, contrary to his wishes, she never prepared him to rule, so it is no wonder he sucks at it, but she tolerates it so long as she feels she can control him. Once she loses this, she betrays her entire family so that she can be free. That is vile.
It should really be about that friendship falling apart and two loving friends turning into bitter foes. At this point in the book they both absolutely despise each other.
Yes. And it's not just the 'it is not like in the book' argument. The story is clearly structured in such a way to force them to hate each other more and more. The fact that they don't makes all the deaths and the usurping of the throne ring hollow.
@@NX37B Yeah absolutely the story is just dramatically weaker without the animosity between Alicent and Rhaenyra. They already deviated a lot with Alicent "misunderstanding" Visery's last words instead of actively scheming to put Aegon on the throne but that was fine because she still had the conviction that Viserys meant Aegon and that drove her. Now she just seems to stumble around into situations and conflicts with no agency of her own.
Its not even friendship they want to force a lesbian romance down our throats. Sarah Hess has no right to be working on this show anymore.
Why does no one care about B&C after episode 2, Alicent never brings it up in her meeting with Rhenyra even when Rhaenyra asks for Aegon's head.
They kinda forgot
Hopefully because she is lying And really wants to convince Rhaenyra that Aegon will be waiting at home.
@@andreaplavkova1037 From the interviews, it seems like Alicent didn't expect Aegon to escape. Next season, the Blacks will use it as an excuse for all the beheadings when they take Kings Landing and it will look like Alicent's fault since she had already agreed for Aegon's execution.
Cause the writers suck. Especially at anything from a Greens perspective.
Alicent DID bring it up in their first meeting in episode 3, and Aegon basically went insane with rage, which culminated in him getting smoked at rook’s rest…so idk why people act like “no one cares” just because they don’t bring it up every scene…it’s not like they bring up Lucerys’s death much either…they are gone and the war is moving on now.
Rhaenyra sneaking into Kings landing was as stupid as the mission to bring Cersei a wight let’s not lie to ourselves.
It was stupid but at least it was fast with litteraly no consequences at all, it was even kinda useful because Alicent realized she was wrong. Season 7 plot made them loose a DRAGON, a priest and the fcking Wall
Seasons 5-8 are in no way comparable to hotd
@@Slechy_LeshIt's not, but that was still very stupid. Why tf is SHE going to King's Landing??? Send someone else! ?😂😂
I did not like Daemon and Rhaeyrna’s reunion. We spend the entire season of him being haunted by ghosts(which I didn’t mind) and you expect that it’s those reasons why he returns with her. But then he touches a tree, sees the future and then finally decides to support her? Just makes everything seem like a waste of time in comparison and takes some agency away from Daemon.
Yep. It's not actual character development for Daemon but he was *forced* to submit to Rhaenyra by this stupid dream. And that makes his whole time in Harrenhall pointless.
Tbf I do think he needed to see those visions to actually accept the final vision. That being said I agree that showing The Long Night does cheapen it a bit and the arc itself didn't warrant a season of Daemon doing nothing.
Yeah to me that weirwood tree scene with daemon is almost as bad as the reunion scene with alicent & rheanyra😂 it pretty much diminished the arc they gave him this entire season because he does not bend the knee to rhaenyra cause he has faced his demons & has become a better person, but because he knows scary ice zombies are coming soon
The vision and magic just kinda make me cringe and roll my eyes everytime they reference the white Walker threat
Yuuup exactly
The problem isn't the slow pacing, the problem is that the season is boring. The dialogue is boring, there's no tension, there's no seriousness. Early GOT was slow-paced but the dialogue was so good that no one minded the slow pacing
Exactly
And the tensions and stakes were always high. I was always on the edge of my seat during early GoT
@@LB-eh7srbecause you actually cared about the characters in GoT in this I could genuinely not care less about them
@@daquaviousbingleton9763 you’re not wrong 😂.
All the dialogue scenes with Aegon were great. Same with Aemond. Idk how people dismiss all the good shit that happened in season 2 just because of a stupid agenda
Here's my problem with Alicent: she takes no responsibility or accountability for how Aegon turned out. Viserys and Alicent were TERRIBLE parents to their kids. She does seem to acknowledge this when she speaks to Gwayne. If she were truly repentant, she would acknowledge her role in this war. She would submit herself to justice and do everything in her power to save her kids knowing it was her fault.
EXACTLY. Had Alicent offered to sacrifice herself after helping them take kings landing that might have been enough to save the scene but now they just make Alicent out to be a selfish person who only wants to save herself after she was the main culprit of causing all of this. It just makes no sense given her past characterization.
Why does no one pick upon this? It is so blatantly obvious but everyone seems to glance over it.
Exactly, she literally poisoned her children against Rhaenyra for years, that's why it makes no sense for her to have only usurped Rhaenyra's throne because of a 'prophecy', when she's shown multiple times in the show trying to convince Viserys that he'd made a bad decision with naming Nyra as heir. They should've stuck to the book when it comes to Alicent because the show makes her character seem so strange in her ambitions.
The worst part is that her lack of responsibility could’ve been an interesting source of conflict between aegon and alicent, instead they just made aegon as just kinda annoyed with her
@@tinaye8638LOL Rhaenyra did that herself
'Alicent is a morally good character'
Have to disagree on this, she likes to THINK she is moral to give her justification for pursuing her own ends. I feel she comes to Rhaenera not because of some moral code, but because she has been shut out by the greens and fears for her, and her brood's life.
Let's not forget she goads her son into going to war - getting him maimed and then finally giving him up to be executed in order to save her own skin.
She is entirely selfish and sanctimonious
olivia cooke is the only good thing in s 2 she is amazing
Not just Aegon. She tells her all about Aemond’s war plans. And that also means her youngest and kindest son Daeron will also be on the chopping block. Alongside her lover Criston Cole and her own brother, both of whom fighting under Aegon’s banners. SHE SOLD HER WHOLE FAMILY OUT. For her and Helena and maybe her granddaughter? Who knows no one even acknowledges her at all
Alicent only goes to Rhaenyra when she's been stripped of her power.
If they had somehow chosen her as Regent or if she were as influential as she seemed to be in Fire and Blood, she would have never deflected to Rhaenyra.
Olivia Cooke didn't deserve this. Emma D'Arcy did not deserve such pathetic writing.
Smoughtown coming out of the woodworks to spit nothing but facts 🙏🏻
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ Wrong she sent an olive branch in the form of a letter and Rhae refused to look at it for weeks, by then it as too late. Like Dameon said " the mother grieves whilst the queen shirks her duties" or whatever it was.
Season 4 ending prediction:
Halaena: "Why do u think I came all this way...?"
*fucking green seers xD
Halaena: “You’re a good man Daemon”
Christ
Oh NO
Corlys: And who has a better story than helaena the heartbroken
@@isaacnjemanze8821 Helaena The Bran The Broken 2.0
This season definitely had pointless scenes that werent needed like Rhaenyra kissing Mysaria, Lannister mud wrestling, their conversation at the Sept of Baelor. These are just off the top of my head but you can clearly see how these scenes can be traded for something better like Aemond burning sharppoint.
"My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter ... but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home."
Thanks for the goosebumps (;
Who was that?
@@gerryfegan3608 Lord Manderly. In the books his house is pretending to get along with the Freys while secretly plotting against them (ref Grand Northern Conspiracy)
@@umarahmed2378 that's what I thought he was referring to
@@umarahmed2378 thanks
You're way too kind to this trainwreck of a season.
Alicent character assassination is absolutely GoT season 8-esque.
So are Rhaenyra's Scooby Doo missions. And the heavy handed feminism. And that nothing of a burger finale..
Don't forget Daemon and Caraxes' Adventures of the Haunted Castle.
My biggest problem with the show is the motivations of Alicent and Rhaenyra. They are made the figureheads of their respective houses, but all animosity between them from S1 is gone. Peace talks after your son and grandson are murdered by each other’s parties?! Why are the writers scared to depict them as ambitious/entitled rivals for power, instead making them tragic personality vacuums, who are often overruled by the men in their respective councils. Narratively I think positioning the show as Rhaenyra vs Aegon, with Alicent as a lesser but still influential role, was the far more logical approach. I finished S2 not understanding why anybody actually wants to go to war anymore…
They just completely whitewashed their characters and made them boring as a result. In the book both of them are selfish and deplorable people. They don't have good intentions, do the right thing and try to prevent a war they are simply entitled and hungry for power and are willing to do everything to seize it. There are no good guys in the Dance of the Dragons. It was a senseless conflict born out of decadence. That's really the whole point.
@@amysteriousviewer3772Completely agree. It’s like the writers don’t think we’re capable of engaging with content that doesn’t have an obvious hero for us to root for, which is massively detrimental to both their characterisations. Cersei vs Margaery is a somewhat okay comparison; two ambitious, scheming and morally grey/evil female characters, but with clear motivations and people love their relationship and rivalry.
We all know damn well why. Because hollywood would never portray women as vengeful or evil in 2024. That's the only reason.
@@prettyboyg1278 They do it with all the characters though not just the women. Every decision a character makes that leads to a bad outcome is almost always chalked up to either a misunderstanding or miscommunication. It's never just a character making a morally questionable decision for their own gain. It's always a character trying to do the right/just thing that leads to "unintended" bad outcomes. That could be an interesting dilemma for one character but when it's every character it just becomes stale and contrived.
@@amysteriousviewer3772 It's still mainly the women tho If you pay attention, the majority of men in power are mostly portrayed as sexist, incompetent, blood thirsty and battle hungry, pressuring the women to go to war. No matter If it's Aegon, Aemond, Daemon, Alicent's council or Rhaenyra's council. The entire theme of 'mothers comitting atrocities in the name of their families'
got watered down, in order to make room for both Rhaenyra and Alicent to be more sympathetic and to get the 'women good' message across.
I don’t think a sane mother would give up her children even if they aren’t the best people
Say what you will about Cersei, she would’ve stuck by her children regardless. Alicent basically forcing Aegon to take the throne and then straight up betraying her whole family was just strange. At least face the consequences of your choices
... and she betrays him after him having lost his heir, his manhood, and having been burned by the closest thing to nuclear fire in Westeros.... It's bad writing to me... The Alicent of the second half of the season is a completely different Alicent. The writers should've continued writing her from the point of view that she knew she misunderstood Viserys, but it was too late to turn back..
To be fair she always acted like she hated him, since season 1. She just despises him, maybe because of all the raping in his younger days.
@@LoKimLinProject she still should take responsibility for her children. She is the one who raised them into the monsters, telling all sorts of vile things and wild accusations about their kin into their ears. Instead we get a tragic heroic music over her standing at a shore. Are they implying we should root for this abomination of a person?
@@LoKimLinProjectsame woman who shielded him against a dragon? And what about her other sons? Surely the implication of Rhaenyra's words isn't lost on you as well. If Aegon is a threat to her claim then so is Aemond and Daeron. What then? Alicent agreeing to this without seemingly realizing the severity of the situation for all of her sons is pure utter stupidity. Even if you want to argue about Aemond being a psychopath so he's deservingof it, what about Daeron then? Are we gonna be playing the 'Alicent hates her son' excuse again?
@@LoKimLinProjectLets be real. Nobody seemed to care that Aegon r**** some girls. They only cared that nobody noticed. I dont think that shocked anyone. They were annoyed by Aegon and that he cant control His cock. They told this so the watchers can hate him freely. Team Green never had a chance 😅
I love how you say Daemon's sidequest was necessary yet you only focus on and praise the Oscar scene which is at the very end and has absolutely nothing to do with the visions.
It really wasn’t that bad
Simon Strong was the absolute best part of Harrenhal. Im glad we got his character out of all that at least.
They definitely could’ve condensed Daemon’s Harrenhal acid trips into 3 or 4 episodes, with the 4th time being the ‘prophecy’ he sees in the finale.
@@calebbellizio4985 if they somehow managed to make one of the most enjoyable character in this show bland and boring I'd say, it is that bad.
Alicent went from shielding Aegon from a dragon to Aegon finally getting burnt and now she is barely there for him. What was the point of that scene then?
The problem with Alicent's character is that she has always been a mess. She spent so many years hating on Rhaenyra and making her life hell. She psychologically terrorized Aegon when he was a child that his half sister will kill him one day for simply existing. Her father warned her about that and that's why she decided to wear the green dress. Rhaenyra marrying Daemon, Viserys giving two fucks about Aemond losing an eye, Laenor disappearing suddenly, Vaemond getting killed should have brought something out of Alicent but she suddenly warms up to Rhaenyra at the banquet because Viserys gave some short emotional speech. Then she is shocked to see that people have been plotting to put Aegon on the throne. What was she doing for so many years then? And she has praising Viserys so much when Viserys ignored her children and always favoured Rhaenyra. She is roasting Aegon for not being like him when Aegon was never acknowledged by his father. Then she spends the entire season complaining and whining about the men shunning her but when Aegon actually asks her for advice she shuts him down. And now worse she has sold out all her sons to be assassinated.
They had a perfect sympathetic, vile, hateful villainous character but Alicent is now boring, pathetic, lame and i am not at all interested in her arc anymore. She is mediocre at best.
Exactly this!!! Season 1 Alicent (till before the banquet) was extremely sympathetic. She went through a lot of sh*t, so her turning into this bitter, self-righteous, hateful b*tch towards Rhaenyra out of jealousy made perfect sense. We didn't hate her guts entirely for it because we understood the sh*t Otto and Viserys put her through. She was a flawed antagonist that people could root for, because she was technically in the right (and I say this as a Team Black supporter). Season 2 took that gold mine of a character arc and turned that to absolute dragon sh*t.
17:28 The fans expected action and battles because the last thing we saw in season 1 was a Rhaenyra death stare.
Instead, what we got is a tree-hugging Rhaenyra which kept having these self-righteous monologues about avoiding war and destruction to save "ze peepol". And not a single one of her councelors actually called her out on her inaction (besides the typical lampshading)
They did but the showrunners made them cartoonishly sexist so the audience wouldn't take their side. And every named character falls in line with Rhaenyra because god forbid we have character conflict.
@@unc54Yeah, that's exactly what I mean't by "typical lampshading". For example:
Jace: You went to meet Alicent ?
Rhae rhae: I had to make sure I could avoid war and destruction
Possible Jace answers:
A) You could have gotten captured, you idiot
B) We're already at war, idiot
C) If you want to avoid wider war and destruction, do a decapitation strike on King's Landing before Green armies have the time to mobilize. idiot
D) My mother has proven incapable of ruling in times of war. I demand this council make me Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm for the duration of this conflict.
E) So, did you make sure we can avoid war?
Is your answer E ? Then congratulations, you've just lampshaded an important plot point with the least consequences possible
It's especially ridiculous because then we have scenes like Rhaenys in the dragonpit just slaughtering innocent civilians for no reason but then we are suddenly supposed to care about the smallfolk.
@@simonrobillard The worst part is I remember Jace saying the first two and then Rhaenyra restating the obvious like she made a profound point
Yeah Targaryens aren't nice.
The show doesn't seem to understand that 😂
Alicent meeting Rhaenyra in Dragonstone is the most pointless scene I've ever seen.
She was the main reason Aegon 2 became the king. She dragged him into this and now she wants to relieve all this and let Aegon 2 die in the hands of Rhaenyra.
Yes because there's a thing called a mistake it's something a human can do idk if you've ever heard of it
@@DuneLover1472makes no sense though, she knew Aegon was incompetent, none of what happened is an actual surprise. That is the huge problem with making Alicient a saint
@@DuneLover1472Yep, Alicent felt very human to me in some episodes this season. It was realistic writing for her, not bad writing like some think.
@@RustCohle072 Rhaenyra said son for a son. Did she forget they already killed Jaeherys or what.
Bruh these are nuanced characters, she put him on the throne, but aftr the deaths and drama, she regrets it.
Daemon's arc is great.
He supports Rhaenyra.
He thinks she is being weak so he leaves.
He spends 6 episodes on a dream like stupor.
He supports Rhaenyra.
He will once again think she is weak next season I guarantee it and we know he leaves again to hunt Aemond
His support before wasn't full as rhanyra herself says , he was doing it for himself , she said something like having a sword in his heart. Now he does it for her. And he said , it's his brothers throne in episode 2 meaning he was only fighting to protect his brothers throne now he defends his wives throne. Massive difference
@@SamirSiraj8542 She was talking about Jaehearys being his revenge
- Gets a life changing vision by touching a tree conveniently just before rhaenyra arrives so he can pledge his allegiance to her without any consequences of his actions the past 8 episodes
The season ended at episode 4. The rest was just a long trailer for season 3
It was setup for season 3. A trailer is supposed to get you hyped, the end of season 2 did not really accomplish that.
Nah the first 7 episodes were great
so I guess f the dragonseed storyline ?? 😅
Cap
Nah the first 7 episodes were not perfect but still really good, episode 2 & 4 were comparable to early game of thrones in terms of quality. episode 8 was just really where everything came crashing down
“Rough from a writing standpoint” bro it is innate character assasination
This season achieved close to nothing - I can rock with 8 episodes of talking, pretty easily, but if after 8 episodes of talking I can't tell u ANYTHING about Rheanyra's allies, and if after 8 episodes of talking, half of the main characters arcs barely moved - then it's a huge failure. What was especially annoying, is that I felt like all of the subplots were suuuper rushed - if there is close to nothing happening, why are we rushing interesting/fun bits like Tyland and Lohar and giving it 10 minutes of screen time with zero time to breathe? GOT was at its best with those goofy unlikely duos.
I would have loved to see side quests of these “lesser characters” like Jace and Creagan in the north. In the books Jace reportedly takes a lover there which would add personality to his character. Or showing characters bonding with their dragons so it actually hurts when they go to war. Or having Harrenhall be actually nightmarish both for Daemon and the audience. Nobody got a spooky vibe from it, instead everyone was tired of the visions that felt repetitive. There’s literally so much the writers could have done so that the audience would have something to sink their teeth into and yet they chose the Alicent and Rhaenyra friendship which doesn’t even make sense anymore.
You still don't seem to understand that alicent giving up aegon & aemond doesn't just go against her book characterisation, it goes against her season 1 characterisation as well. Alicent knew her children were bad people (a lot of that was due to her & viserys parenting) but she STILL willingly put them on the throne & forced them to fight in this war cause according to her their lives were in danger. Her giving them up this easily makes no sense especially if the excuse is them being bad people (something she already knew for years). She also loved them despite their flaws. This is the same woman who stood in front of a dragon for aegon like 3 weeks ago
Yes!!! I was so dumbfounded by "Alicent" in episode 8 that I decided to listen to the book. I was annoyed by book readers comments during the whole season but now I know why they were so pissed. This Alicent is nothing like the one in season 1. I would argue that it's the same for Rhaenyra.
I even feel like season 2 Rhaenyra feels like a different character. The only character who completely changes their way of being that works is Daemon because he saw a GoT sizzle reel 😂
Knowing how game of thrones is written, he passiveness and lack of ruthlessness is going to bite her in the ass in the future. I don’t think the show is black and white, if Rhaenyra was truly a good person she wouldn’t have sent hundreds to their death to find dragon riders.
you didnt seem to watch season two at all??? I feel like releasing the episodes weekly made everyone forget what happened in the last, this entire season was spent building that event up for alicents character...what show were you watching??
@TatorTot4422 it was obvious that's what they were going for, it's just an awful choice for a narrative and for a character
As deplorable as Aegon was this season, there's no denying that he was also the most interesting character to watch. The actor did a great job.
How do say he is the most interesting? He was Joffrey in beginning and then got burned. But he still more interesting than rhaenrya.
@@ctdog15because he does terrible things yet also good things. He feels more real and human than the rest of the characters.
Aegon and Aemond are amazing to watch. All the terminally online Black fans are gonna glaze Daemon, though.
@@ctdog15 He's not even close to Joffrey, come on.
@@xxwhispersxx2856thank you! I cant even understand the joffrey discussions. Joffrey actively liked inflicting pain in others. Aegon simply wants love and attention and cries most the time
I just started watching GOT again and HOTD just isn’t close. Something happens every episode in GOT and it keeps you engaged at all times.
In season 1 of HOTD yes something happened every episode that kept you engaged
If u think that u need to go watch House of the dragon season 1. Not whatever u think was HotD season 1 lol
Pick up Season 8 again and try upholding your claim with a straight face
Even Season 1 of HoTD couldn't match Game of Thrones, let alone Season 2.
@@ajduongguess it's a good thing it already had 4 seasons of being the greatest show ever aired before then. What does HotD have besides the waning steam from GoT? If you really think about it, this season only expands on the issues clearly present in s1. It's just harder to notice because of the dialogue, pageantry, and aforementioned steam.
Allicent was never a morally good character and them making her motivation a misunderstanding makes no sense allicent is planning to userp rahnerya the whole back half of season one them trying to make it seem like she doesn't want the war to happen when shes the driving force behind ageon being on the throne at all its just bad writing how can people defend this
The dialogue was flat, the writing was ChatGPT worthy, but with even less sense. The world feels smaller. None of this is the fault of the actors and actresses, or the amazing production team.
Feel like season 2 of HotD is on a similar level as season 5 of GoT. It has good things but also has flaws. Overall the pacing is a bit too slow in both.
True, but even then... At least Season 5 ended with some pretty entertaining television like "Hard Home" and the season finale where Jon gets betrayed by the Knights Watch.
While House Of Dragon couldn't even end its own season on a satisfying note. Honestly, this might be the most disappointing season of Television I've seen in awhile, and not just because the season was slow, but because I had high hopes that the writers knew what they were doing after Season 1 and would have a great direction for the series.
Although, after this season... Those hopes are unfortunately crushed for me. Season 3 could be good, but I'll always see Season 2 as more of a stain on this series, rather than a compelling and interesting season of television like Season 1
s5 of got is worse.
@@ianmcclure3936 Well yeah and season 2 of HOTD has a lot of entertaining stuff like rooks rest in ep. 4 and the dragon taming in ep. 7…or Daemon pledging to Rhaenyra in ep. 8. So I don’t think that’s much of a difference compared to season 5 of GOT…that season ended on a major cliffhanger and had you looking forward to the next season. HOTD didn’t execute the cliffhanger very well, but it definitely has me looking forward to season 3. Idk why everything has to be either peak masterpiece television, or terrible worst thing ever created…it was overall just a mixed bag season.
@@donovan4222 I never said it was the worst thing ever created. I just said it was a massive disappointment.
@@ianmcclure3936 Ok well there’s a big difference between being a “disappointment” as in it’s not as good as peak game of thrones or HOTD season 1….and “disappointment” as in having a quality decline like season 8 GoT.
Amazing how civil R+A were during their confrontation. I mean, Rhaenyra had her child basically chomped up and eaten while Alicent's grandchild was freakin decapitated just a few weeks earlier. Its like they didn't care at all.
27:27 How Alicent makes greens more sympathetic?
Helaena makes greens more sympathetic than Alicent.
She does, but Helaena mostly just chilled in the background up until the finale with Aemond. Alicent tho was more active in speaking out against the Green Council before being pushed out by them.
Alicent is genuinely the WORST. She forced Aegon to become king for him to later be killed by precious rhae rhae
Ironically enough, AEGON made them more sympathetic. Daeron wasn't even present and I felt more about him than I did Alicent.
The difference is that this is JUST SEASON 2. This isn't like GoT s8, true. It's worse because the downfall started so much sooner
HotD S2 deserves Devoid of logic video. You are being too easy on this
Way too easy, but I think his view will change once the series is over and these moments end up having a much larger impact
"They take stuff from the books when it suits them"
"They take stuff from GOT when it suits them"
"They kill great book characters early when it suits them"
and " They ruin endings when it suits them"
Yarn talking to the Wildings Dan, Dave, and Ryan.
That's my biggest fear, they spent all the money on the Battle of Rooks Rest....... How will they do more battles in season 3, unless they increase the budget like crazy!
It's not mixed, it's bad. I remember when S7 aired, a lot of people were forgiving in the moment. Hindsight bad writing breeds more bad writing. Making the two women protagonists saints keep creating problems, when Miguel left the show, it was a huge red flag. HOD is very screwed, and a handful of good scenes won't save bad writing.
Miguel was part of the problem lol, wanting his wife to get extra screen time and be a producer with no expirience.
@@jam8539season 1 was good , Miguel was there. Miguel left, season 2 completely lost the tone... Not saying it's a perfect correlate, but if allowing his wife have a few background scenes is the price to pay for consistency then so be it
Exactly. This reminds me an awful lot of the GoT fans who were heaping praise on that show right up until 'The Bells' episode, of 'The Long Night' if I'm being more charitable.
It seems to me that he is trying really hard to convince himself this season wasn't trash.
Next season it's team Aegon vs the world.
# Team gold✨
Team gold
Can't wait for his journey to essos.
Really can't wait to see what him and larys get up to in Essos. It gives me early GOT dany & jorah vibes lol
More like Team Straight White Male vs team DEI. They already made Ulf a complete buffoon who is obviously going to betray Rhaenyra and head over to the evil side to even the dragon odds, and Jace is a weak pouty bitch with a small dragon who probably won't be a factor. So with two more white males off the roster and the slow-playing of Rhaena getting her inevitable dragon comes to an end, "Team Black" is about to reflect the representation and diversity we've come to expect from anything made in the 2020s. All we need is the trans Triarchy war leader to switch sides and we're all set. I should be a writer for this show.
the realms delight lmao
They straight up ruined Rhaenyra's character. In general they made the Greens villains and the Blacks heroes and it really waters down the story. Thid was a problem in season 1 tho, they made Aegon a sadistic prick who gets off to child gladiator matches. Even Daemon causing the blood & cheese event can be written off as not what he intended.
Yep it's so obvious that the Writers love the Blacks blindly
@@micahbonewell5994
Of course the writers clearly favour the Blacks, but when I point it out, people call me crazy or dumb.
@@DarthSidian the book is biased towards the Greens
Daemon 100% knew what he was doing and it’s made pretty clear in the show… one of the assassins literally mentions that Daemon said “a son for a son” and they cut off Jaehaerys head specifically so they still get their payment. So that’s one thing they got right I guess.
@@ainsleyharriottsspicymeat8909not this again 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️media literacy is dead in hotd fans
Placing actors’ screen time over characters leads to story changes and a decrease in quality.
It depends, shows are different than books. A good actor can completely recontextualize a character to the point where it would be smart to utilize the character more in the show.
Examples of characters that are more prominent in the show than the books and turned out good: king Viserys, ser Davos, Greyworm, Robb stark and Bronn.
Need girl boss moments
@@donovan4222 Utilizing the character more just because their actor is killing it is how you get Season 7 and 8.
When the world revolves around your character and is bending backwards to push the plot forward is when you know your show is f*cked.
@@Ducky-vl7mp That’s not true at all, George RR Martin even admitted that king Viserys was better in the show because of the actors performance and liberties that the writers took with the character.
GoT season 7 and 8 was just bad because the writing was bad…but even then some of the characters were improved from the books. Lady Olenna Tyrell was one of the greatest characters in the entire show even in the bad seasons….and in the books she is pretty much just an annoying old lady. In fact the Tyrell’s in general were done better in the show I think besides Loras.
@@donovan4222 Ok and? Paddy did an amazing job but there was also strong writting to back him up. All his scenes made sense and served a purpose.
Meanwhile Rhaenyra, Daemon and Alicent all got over 1 hour of screen time in Season 2 which consists of going in circles and doing the same thing for Rhae and Dameon while Alicen't screen time is pure filler where she goes camping and takes baths.
They could've used that time to develop other characters who are actually major players in the Dance.
4:13 did you forget about Daeron? So did Alicent I guess.
Edit: Alicent trading her sons' lives for her freedom is not earned. I would absolutely call it character assassination.
Exactly
Not to mention her ignoring her grandson's death
I feel that the storylines of Alicent and Rhaenyra lost a lot of quality because the writers wanted to turn them into victims of the situation to fit the narrative theme of 'a woman displaced from power due to the patriarchy.' I hope they can correct this in the third season, but I doubt it, based on what I saw in the 'Inside the Episode.' Condal and Hess seem to love that plot and the dynamic between the characters too much.
Everyone with the exception of Alicent and Rhaenyra are massively underdeveloped. And those 2 are the most boring characters.
Also Daemon's dreams were completely pointless. They build up his betrayal for 5 episodes only for him to end up doing nothing. Also the riverlords said they'd only follow Rhaenyra so he couldn't have claimed that army as his own even if he wanted to.
Corlys's never talks to any of his grandkids other than Baela once in the span of 2 seasons, Halaena talks to her brothers each once across 2 seasons, Daemon never talks to his kids, the dragons have yet to be developed in the slightest. They're building up this war but not the characters in it other than Rhaenyra and Alicent. No one seems to have much of a relationship with one another.
Also the casting could've been a bit better but that's a nitpick. Alicent looks the same age as her kids, probably because the actress is 1 year older than them, and Baela when she's with Rhaenys and Daemon looks so out of place that you almost forget that they're related
The thing I personally dislike is Rhaenyra. The writers are clearly trying to set her up as this virtuous ruler who cares for the innocent, while in fact her actions show the opposite. Don’t tell me you are unwilling to sacrifice innocent people after watching the bastards get burnt alive. Also her just kind of forgetting about her son dying is weird, and putting all the blame on Daemon when he took action on something she commanded makes her look like a hypocrite. Team Green all the way, at least they are not NPCs.
It feels like they adapted what could’ve been 2-3 episodes worth of material from the book and then just added on needless changes and expanded wheel spinning material to the point of the season feeling way too slow and at a lost for any momentum. I get that this seasons production wasn’t very smooth with the strikes, WB’s financial woes and changes in creative staff but it feels like they’re not situated to appropriately bring this story to life.
Seaons 1 covered decades of time whereas season 2 covered a few weeks at most. It's kind of ridiculous.
Sorry, but I can't imagine watching season 2 again. Ayln & co on the docks the entire season... Alicent, cole and gyawne hanging out in the KL landing over and over and over... Daemon having a *moment* in harrenhal that lasts the entire season... Rhanerya puttering and moping about... Rhaena looking pained and moping the entire season... Both queens successfully completing moronic stealth missions into the enemy stronghold...
Holy hell. This was such a drag... and dumb.
Edit:
I want to add Larys, Aegon, and Otto are the main reason I will watch season 3. Their actors elevate whatever scenes they are in.
4:20 you mentioned that Alicent may wish to save good hearted innocent Healena,yet what about her youngest son "Doren"(I think) hes a lind heart young lad most importantly "A son" who Alicent seams to forget about
I missed Otto Hightower so much this season. But his dismissal scene was a triumph in acting. I hope we get more Rhys Ifrans scenes for Season 3!
Lower budget doesn't justify bad writing and character assassinations.
If ryan and sara has balls, they should make it that what alicent said in her 2nd scene with Rhaenyra was a lie. Tricking Rhaenyra.
I blame HBO. If they hadn't cut the budget the season wouldn't have felt like a dud at the end. They had originally planned for 2 big episodes to close out...with the finale being the Fall of Kings Landing. Smh
I felt that too, like the last episode was a build up for something and never paid off, any executive who saw that would reject it but I guess budget cuts and the writing strike didn't give them enough time to sit with their decisions and understand what they want to go with this characters.
This season was disappointing
I feel like the character that got hurt the most by this season was Jace. In the books there’s a lot of focus on him forging alliances and securing support for his mother. After Rook‘s Rest he even more or less takes control over the faction as a whole and it is his idea to test the dragon seeds. He even promises them titles etc.
In the show his diplomatic journey got reduced to one scene at the beginning where he got the support of the North without doing anything. Then he secured the Twins because he got bored. Other than that he sits around at Dragonstone mostly complaining about everything. He even dislikes the dragonseeds as they undermine his position. Overall he comes off less like a competent leader who could once become a good king and more like a whining little boy who you just don’t care about.
SPOILER!!!
Since Jace will likely die early in season 3 (Gullet) I think the showrunners missed an opportunity to portray him as a sympathetic character whose death is a great tragedy for the realm and a huge loss to the Blacks. Now his death will likely not have more impact than the one of Luke as he’s just another son that dies.
They dropped all of Jace's arc because they didn't want to give him individual screen time away from Rhaenyra. They still wanted Rhaenyra to be the "hero" of the story, while Jace was a figure that was a lot more heroic. I mean, even after his and Rhaenyra's deaths, the whole Stark army still came South when they didn't have to anymore. That is saying something about loyalty.
@@xxwhispersxx2856 it‘s a real bummer that they didn’t do him justice. I really think if they did that would reduce the problem of the blacks being a bit boring
You're really underestimating how awful that Alicent/Rhaenyra scene was in the finale. It's season 8 level terrible and completely ruins Alicent as a character for the rest of the show. Simple as that.
I think you might have missed the issues with Daemon’s arc, it’s not scenes without action are the driver for complaints, it’s the way they wrote his character. Man spent the entire season tripping balls and wasting away, when he could have been out in the river lands with the same scenes you enjoyed. Wasted character this season and having a silly vision of Danny and GOT’s being the switch to change his mentality is dumb af, no one wants to revisit the bs that was season 8…
I think that the season has written both Rhaenyra and Allicent into deep holes, and based on what Im seeing in the writer interviews, I'm not convinced they have the aptitude to undo the damage.
Rhaennyra and Allicent are both written like they're modern women inserted into a fuedal realm, despite both of them having grown up in it and presumably understanding the name of the game. In a fuedal world, usurpation IS a declaration of war: it is a direct violation of the will of the crown in a world where the crown's authority is law, and that authority is explicitly enforced by their trained warrior class through bloodshed. I'm currently rewatching GOT, and all of the characters, man and woman, understand this well and play within the dynamic competently. On the other hand we have Rheannyra who sits on her hands, neither yielding her claim, nor doing anything meaningful about it while her council BEGS her for orders. In fact, I feel like the real culmination of the arc between Daemon and Rhaennyra was Daemon shedding his ego, and Rheannyra realizing that she isn't actually capable of being a leader of men and realizing she needs Daemon to be that for her. And thats a fine conclusion to come to EXCEPT: tonally this whole season has been painting Rhaennyra as a fucking girlboss when she never actually is. She's a horrifically indecisive leader who's inaction has cost her countless resources, and the respect of her immediate subordinates. Perhaps if the point was Daemon realized he needs her to be the political player while hes the war leader it would all make sense, excep she's a terrible politcal player too.
Allicent on the other hand is a truly dillusional political pawn, who burns everything she touches. She was the mfing QUEEN, filled the red keep with the images of her house, played the game to put her son on the throne, but still endlessly plays herself as a victim of her time. Everything she does she takes no agency in, constantly playing it off as someone else's will while simulatneously blaming everyone for taking her agency from her. And in the end she just wanted to be free of it all? What? Where has she been at for the last decade? She wants to enjoy the boons of her house's support and the grace of her kindly king and husband, then commit treason and act like she had no part in any of it? That its just the angry men pushing her around as she falls conveniently into the position that most benefits her at that time? What a miserable, whiney fool.
The show wants these characters to be focal points of the conflict and strong agents, while also communicating that they are helpeless to their male-dominated, war-centric society (of which they gladly take the benefits when it suits them). The problem is that the inverse has been de facto true: they are weak individuals who have both had substantial power thrust before them, and who did nothign with it. The dissonance between what the show wants them to be and what they are is destroying the sense of the conflict and their personal relationship.
I can’t even root for Helaena anymore, yes she’s innocent but she seems barely fazed by the death of her son, and instead starts spoiling the show when Aemond attempts to get her to defend her side from all getting killed. She almost feels like a robot like Bran which is getting hard to like.
Episode 8 felt like a fantastic setup to a fantastic action heavy episode 9 and dealing with the and memorable episode 10 dealing with the fallout and setting up what's next. Apparently, that was the plan but HotD got screwed by last minute budget cuts and time constraints.
Still doesn't excuse the shitty writing.
During story writing,characters should move the plot in the certain way,so it stays orgain.when plot is bent to portray certain characters as this or that,story loses its appeal whatsoever.
There is zero sense of perspective to 90% of the characters. It all feels so disconnected.
The sowing of the dragon seeds was the high point of this season.
Change my mind.
Yeah it was a huge letdown, 6/10 for me
More like 5, and that's mostly because of the visual effects.
SIMON STRONG IS THE REAL HIGHLIGHT OF THIS SEASON
THE GOAT
15:29 “George wrote that it is going to take 4 full seasons of 10 episodes each to do justice to Dance of the Dragons, start to finish”
They’ve deviated from the books.. they’ve denied George’s suggestions
Nah dude. This season was worse than GOT S5 and 6
Indeed, I would much rather watch season 5 and 6.
Needs more spooky Harrenhall dreams, 0/10
See you in 4 years when this show is done and you start making devoid of logic videos on it. Keep glazing it until you suddenly switch up your opinions in retrospect.
This lmao Some people will never learn
i will never understand people glazing this show to death mad weird to me
It's like he is trying to convinve himself in this video that the season isn't bad. He is either being paid to give this opinion or he is truly deluded.
Once again, the show-writers think they're better than GRRM's source material. At least GOT took a solid 4 seasons before they got that in their heads. We're only 2 seasons in and already seeing it. Blacks good, Greens evil, plebeian masses get their teams and the terminally online weirdos get their self-righteous egos stroked.
I hate the mainstream. Bring back gatekeeping.
About Daemon: You got one thing wrong. He doesn't support Rhaenyra because he is convinced by his wife or his brother - he supports her because of a magical tree vision. And I think that's outrageous.
You didn't even watch it. Daemon was changed even before that scene. Conversation with alyss confirms it. Final scene was nail on the coffin
@@SamirSiraj8542 Right, the "final scene" - where he sees an apocalyptic vision and Rhaenyra on the throne with Haelena whispering "you know your role" - that was just the nail?
Stop defending terrible writing.
@@floofyan6727 daemon k1lled the man who supported him and willingly called him king previous episode. Alyss clearly says he has changed. After that man becomes turncloak. He doesn't use that to seize the opportunity. His regrets of not being at viserys's side is solved. He realizes he keep creating problem for his wife. We also see he had some resentment towards rhae for taking his position as heir. He cries after seeing his brother and what he regreted for not being at his side goes away. He learn to rely on other (like one alys). Making peace with himself and his regrets, he learns to rely. Then learning what will happen, he realizes what he must do and he follows rhae. Awesome conclusion.
@@SamirSiraj8542he offed the Blackwood because he didn’t want to lose all the river lands. All that sadness and crying for him to be convinced of a tree vision. You say he changed but the guy was grinning ear to ear hearing that guy say “we need a king”
@@Birdflaps20 did he say he will become king to the turncloak ? He didn't . He changed as alys said. His k1lling the guy who willing called him king is him burying the idea himself. At this point your are making up fanfiction to diss him
I really believe if this season had two more episodes, we would all overlook some of the issues. Warner Bros screwed the writers over, but the writers did not adapt to the limited budget
I don't think it's mixed, it's just overall bad. If you count out the casual audiences that just wanna see dragons and explosions it's not really appealing to anyone, it doesn't have the dialog that early GoT had, it doesn't have rapport with book fans because they aren't faithfully adapting the book. Really if you just discard the people who want to see cgi dragons and explosions, it's not a show that does anything particularly well. Maybe it's not hated, but I definitely don't see anyone praise the show aside from superficialities like music or shot composition.
Caption should be to "House of Dragon S2 was boring as hell"
Daemon’s dreams 100% felt like the writers not knowing what to do with him all season.
This is not better than GoT Season 6. I’ll die on this hill.
It’s barely better than GOT season 7 it’s genuine slop, it will take these guys till mid way through season 3 and then they will finally be like wow this shit sucks, because it always does…
You either have a brain or you think season 2 is good. 2 good episodes out of 8 is not acceptable.
Season 1 was the teaser for the Dance of Dragons, Season 2 was the first trailer.
Too much Rhaenyra glazing, not enough of the impartiality that made the dance feel like human history rather than a story
Not the worst, not the best, interesting that they ended it the way they did..
ended? the show will have two more seasons. What happened to patience?
@askholand8132 ended this season, come on now.
@@askholand8132 bro what? Yeah have some patience after they ended the season 2 episodes early without the typical GOT bang ending and then wait 2 years.
@@askholand8132it’s gonna end here I fear. Condal explained they got hit hard by WB’s decidedly more conservative stance on spending. Season 2’s ratings are down next to season 1 so I feel they’ll give them less money which will effectively result in an extremely mild season 3 pre-production leading to the show getting dropped when they realize they can’t tell the story proper.
To be fair, Rhaeneyra told the possible dragonseeds that many will die. She also gave them a chance to leave before if they wanted. They stayed because they wanted to
Most of them tried to flee once the flames started and they were locked in.
@@xxwhispersxx2856 too late. They promised to tame the dragons or die doing so. They were backing down once they saw how difficult it really was
Alicent's character assassination on episode 8 is on par with how season 8 destroyed characters of Jaime and Daenerys.
@@miguelsantos-cd9tu Not quite (yet), because there is still a chance she knows Aegon is moving town.
This is the type of hyperbolic statement he was talking about in this video.
@@SteveAustin-zv1nn hes not wrong, I wouldnt call the whole season awfull, but the alicent and rhaneyra scenes are on par with the stupidity of season 8.
@@SteveAustin-zv1nnexcept it's not exagerated
Hate to break it to you but Daenerys is still gonna go bonkers in the book and Jaime is still going to return to Cersei. I think the circumstances are going to be majorly different tho.
I am surprised at how they could pull such a decent S1 and then make this piece of crap. I'd rate S1 as a 7-7,5; they did a great job with very little source material and managed to make a lot of characters(not nearly as many of them as GOT S1 tough) very interesting, and the interpretations of each main chracter were really good. S2 was a disaster, 4/10. It doesn't even feel like it's the same series... The pacing, the characters, how cheap it feels, and how they're overextending it... It almost feels as if the producers had recieved notice of a third and fourth season in the middle of the S2 production. Disgusting.
Nitpicking: how is a 4 a disaster if 5 is average
its a good show, but in comparision to season 1 its mid
Season 2 ain't good
Black council is bad because they don't use their most important member, Colrys.
Season 2 is like your high school sweetheart leading you on over and over about the “adventure” you will both have on prom night in senior year. Lasted a damn eternity!
The Assassin’s Creed music in the background was such a nice touch
Bro talking about redundant scenes but is happy with screentime being wasted in Daimon being on shrooms. We get that the place was haunted. We didn't need so many of them.
I dont see complaint about lacking in action. A bunch of nothing happened. Hardly anything had impacts to move the plot forward. "What would you have me do?" At every point
I believe Rhaenys went back to challenge Vaeghar because she felt guilty about not ending him when she had the chance when she escaped in kings landing
11:10 Got to disagree here. If she left the soldiers at Rooks Rest to die it would be an even worse look for Rhaenyra. "We will not protect you if attacked by Vhagar." It could have lost her a lot of support from lesser houses.
From Ser Criston the royal Clapper, to solo sword polisher. Dude had it good.
So many excuses for this season, is just bad writing
Im sorry, but saying it’s worse than the latest seasons of GOt is totally valid, although those were awful the writers had no material to follow, these bozos had a whole book to stick to and create a perfect show.
Season 2 made me buy the books to read it myself and not watch their fanfic about Rhaenyra and Alicent love.
Video title should be; Apologist reviews HoD S2