I have 3 things to say: 1. I really want to remaster the Season 7 Devoid of Logic video since it's a measly 8 minutes long and I've grown a lot as a creator since then. 2. The music in the description is more detailed and I'll start listing out tracks I even use from Epidemic Sound. As a side note, Kara's Main Theme from Detroit Become Human is objectively one of the best songs from a video game soundtrack. 3. I also got engaged :) I put a pic in the discord announcements if you're interested. 4. I jumbled Ellaria and Elia my b. They're practicallyyyyy the same :)
Stannis' arc was the first sign of what was going to happen. Protagonists being stupid, long arcs ending anti-climatically and villians randomly succeeding at whatever they try.
It didn't even make sense how half Stannis' army was able to desert since they were trapped by heavy snow that didn't melt until the night before the battle with the Boltons. And it makes no sense that they wouldn't notice so many of their soldiers leaving until right before the battle.
What they did to the one true King was downright criminal, the goat of goats the finest military commander alive in westeros defeated by the winter is rubbish. The nights watch should not even be an option for the pretenders david and dan.
season 5 is when the plot armor became something different, Catelyn captured tyrion and it started a war, but jamie can sneak into dorne, kill multiple dornish guards, assault a prince and no war is started
The whole Loras “trial” and the only evidence against him being that his squire knows that Loras has a birthmark on his upper thigh was so stupid!! He is a squire!! Squires help their lords undress and dress all the time! It’s literally their job. So why would it be shocking that Oliver knew about Loras’s birthmark???
margaery being imprisoned because one guy with no proof says she walked in on them is even stupider + why isn’t jaime also arrested for incest and adultery? the high sparrow literally goes on and on about how everyone should be held accountable, yet he’s cool with jaime being free somehow? when they did go after cersei?
honestly, it remains me of the trials made by the Inquisition. If they want to punish they will do it, trials were never fair, they were just made as protocol
I never thought about that but that makes so much sense lol like it's not a crime that he knows that because saw him naked. Like you said he's his squire, probably dressed him for battle countless times. Even going by a recent House of the Dragon, like half the kingsguard and the king himself has seen his brother Aemond's dick lol does that make them gay? Stupid writing, like most of the show once they ran out of book material
@@johanalejandrocazadordepin7225 Yeah but correct me if I am wrong, the inquisition did not target kings but normal people. Loras is a noble and a fucking Tyrell. Surely it cannot be THAT easy to get rid of a noble.
The biggest flaw was Stannis killing his daughter. I quote "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is the law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert."
Yeah. More likely it's Melissandre and the remaining fanatics at the Wall that would burn Shireen, especially after Jon sent maester Aemon and Mance's babu away, leaving them no other suitable sacrifices.
@@SklLLLY You got any proof for that? For all I know book Stannis would never even consider this and would 100% execute Melissandre for even suggesting such a crime to humanity. Yeah he is ruthless, dutifulf and tough. But I just cant see this happening
@@sarstenstahlsarsten6577 I don’t recall the interview but I’m sure it’s not hard to find. It’s obviously inspired by King Agamemnon’s story when he has to sacrifice his daughter bc the weather won’t let them sail to Troy…
Loras is a noble and a knight he'd have servants who would bring him clothes in the morning and some would probably help him bathe. Everyone in highgarden should know about his birthmark really.
Never thought about that. But I guess they explain it through Loras angry outburst. In germany we say:" Nur getroffene Hunde bellen/ only hit dogs bark". Which basiclly means that only people who know they did something wrong have such a strong reaction to being accused or criticised.
@@JindrichGebhart93 I also heard that the Stasi ( Staatssicherheit/ the Gestappo of the DDR ) said the same thing about suspects. Basically a innocent suspect will react with protest to being questioned and being "held captive", rather sooner then later. While a guilty suspect will try to bargain and plead with "investigators". But you also have to note that the Stasi used "interrigation tactics" that would be considered torture in our view. So yeah I would say you can never know what someone is guilty of without sound evidence.
@@sarstenstahlsarsten6577 i watched many interrogation videos where you expect a suspect to get mad when being accused of a crime he did not commit. the ones that did it usually stayed silent. so I don't know how much I agree with this also its natural to get annoyed and angry when someone is accusing you of something you did not do this is a reply to your first comment with your german saying
@@hmp01 Like I (kinda) said: You never know if someone is guilty until you have hard evidence. Some innocent peoole get angry while others stay calm and try to reason. It all comes down to the person and overall situation. I just wanted to point out that some people could ( and actually did ) believe Loras to be guilty because he had such an emotional reaction.
Let's be real: Barristan died because Ian McElhinney openly critiqued D&D for making up stupid plots and not sticking to the books (at a point where Feast and Dance were both still up for being adapted faithfully). They wanted to punish the actor and set an example
That is probably true, Kit Harington spoke about that he wished that showjon was more like bookjon in some interviews, then after that in later seasons D&D wrote in height jokes about jon/kit
Dumb and Dumber should've taken their leave from the show after season 5. It's beyond me how HBO or whoever was directly in charge of them didn't sense the degradation of the show. Probably blinded by the money
This is it. Each season had greater viewership figures than previous one. V hard to argue to change the formula. Last two seasons had best figures overall.
Season 4 already had some issues though: the great events from 500 pages of the book being diluted into 10 episodes (in the book Tyron's speech at the trial and Oberyn vs the Mountain occured in the same chapter), the filler rescue arc of Theon leading to nothing, the Battle of the Wall black and white than in the books, no Lady Stoneheart...
@@Shonras Already in season 2 there were issues, like when they decided to scrap Varys' true motivations or when the entirety of Robb's bannermen just dissapeared
@@Redplane70 Yes, as much as I don't like when people complain about the slightest change in an adaptation, D&D were not good at it from the beginning, it just became more obvious when they ran out of source material.
Stannis is still alive in the books and isn’t nearly as fanatical nor dumb. It was clear from season 2 that D&D hated Stannis and wanted to undercut his character.
Uh, Stannis the Mannis has several of the greatest lines in the show. Everyone loves TV Stannis. I don't think D&D hated the character. I think you just don't believe Stannis would ever sacrifice Shireen for black magic. You're gonna be pissed if Winds ever comes out, my friend.
I still think he could die in a Dumb way Like after the Battle maybe he gets kill by an Arrow or Spear Or even from a White Walker from the North, that would make sense
14;54 the Barristan actor complained about being killed off during the dragon pit scene, because his character becomes a POV character in the latter books, D&D didn't like how much he understood about the books and the character and decided to kill him off in the dragonpit, then he complained so they killed him off even earlier in that hallway fight. For that is how petty D&D are.
Season 5 and 6 had its moments because there was still some GRRM writing they could take inspiration of, like Battle of the Bastards(not that its actually based off the books), Hardhome, or the episode Jon becomes king in the norf with the Arthur Dayne/Ned/Lyanna flashbacks(the flashback is based on the books which is why its so cool), but yeah the level of writing dropped drastically even when they knew partly where GRRM was going with some of the plot
@@Ar1AnX1x let's be honest... Season 1-4 are pretty good seasons overall. Like pretty much all episodes have something to bring to the table and allows for a development of several plotlines at once. Season 2 is a very good example of this. Season 5 is not un-eventful, but at the same time events happening aren't nearly as impacting as in the earlier seasons. Season 6 is pretty much the same thing : up until episodes 8-10, season 6 is a litteral snooze fest. I guess this is where D&D decided they needed to do shorter seasons cause they clearly couldn't flesh out episodes the way they used to do it when they still had books to (loosely) adapt.
Yeah and it didn’t have to. These writers just didn’t know what they were doing. Operating within budget constraints does make it impossible to copy a book perfectly. They just didn’t know how to do it as the show progressed.
@@MP-et1eu yup, that's the sad part. The reason why they couldn't fill those episodes up was not because of real budget constraints, you see money being thrown around at every corner in season 5 and 6 (especially in the last 3 apisodes). They just didn't know how to fill them up, simply because adapting a book where there is too much to make fit into a TV show, and you have to select which part go and which don't, and how you mka ehtem work together is one thing, but only having the main plot line and then having to create all the actuall stuff that makes a good book to put in a TV show,... well that's another story. The thing that makes me mad is that it's not that the show got bad the moment that didn't have books any more... Season 5 is taking place during the 5th book. They DID have a book to adapt, plotlines to follow and they simply didn't and made their own thing. Making Sansa marry Ramsey (when in the books it's Jeyne Poole, daughter of Ned Stark's Steward that was captured in the first book that is being sold to the Boltons as a fake Arya Stark), killing Barristan off (while in the books he becomes king of Meereen after Dany took her first dragon flight). And let's not talk about Dorne, which is legitimately one of the most interesting plot of book 4 and 5. Like they had a great book in their hands, and decided to make a very mid story instead. Still baffles me to this day.
@@Ar1AnX1x Yes I never said that S6 and S5 were 100% as bad as S7 and 8. They are still kinda enjoyable for the most part (with a lot of writing problems still) but they still had 10 episodes which gave room to smaller stories, secondary characters ect that would be completely erased in S7 & 8
Another thing about Loras's trial: SQUIRES SEE THEIR KNIGHTS NAKED LIKE, ALL THE TIME. It's literally their job. They're dressing and armouring them on a daily basis. The idea he's seen Loras's birthmark is just... facile.
Season 1-4: Peak Television Season 5: Beginning of devoid of logic Season 6: More devoid of logic Season 7: More devoid of logic Season 8: Do I even need to explain?
They actually wrote a good arc for brienne and just ignored it. She literally was so focused on her revenge on stannis that she missed Sansa lighting the candle. Which was stupid but anyway. She then goes on to kill stannis and save Sansa and pay no price for worrying about her revenge more than her duty. Before she kills stannis he says “do your duty”. I couldn’t believe at that moment they didn’t realize that brienne needed to hear that and realize her true duty was to Sansa and not revenge. It was just so basic and obvious but they chose to just have her get revenge and then save Sansa anyway.
You are actually partly correct. I think Martin got a little lazy with all the fame of moviedom. He realized how much easier it was to make a buck through visual storytelling than writing ten thousand page books. That said, we can't completely rule out Martin getting frustrated with D&D's handling of his source material. As he sees the show blatantly retconning major story elements. And as he saw how much impact the show actually had on the public. It's possible Martin was afraid he would have to direct his writing towards two split fanbases, which would obviously not work too well. . Not saying he was in the right. Just tossing out a possible explanation. . It's a clearly complicated situation. But we can factually say that D&D butchered the story, and Martin stopped writing books. Those two statements are both true.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 - The issue is that D&D could have gotten an entire TV season out of the Dornish book plot (instead of just giving us Oberyn, and then a lame mini-quest involving a Jaime/Bronn buddy cops comedy), and another season out of the Greyjoys book plots (instead of merging Euron & Victarion, and turning the resulting Frankenstein monster into a lame Cersei simp). The Daenerys Meereen story was also much longer & interesting in the books, but D&D wanted Danny & Jon to meet up ASAP so they merged her story with Young Griff, pulled a "have Hizdarh get murked, have Dany give Mereen to Daario, then easily unite all the Dothraki tribes, gave her Young Griff's story, meet Tyrion and cross the narrow sea" Sure, sooner or later they would have ran out of books, but it would have given us at least 6 or 7 faithful seasons of great TV instead of only 4, followed by 4 seasons of pure slop. Then when they *did* run out of books? Well, I honestly don't know, but even making a full stop would have been better than whatever season 8 was. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but I'll never accept the excuse of "D&D ran out of books, they didn't have a choice" since it's a straight up lie, and 6 great seasons followed by 2 seasons of slop would have been better than a 4/4 divide quality wise.
@@randallflagg3700 It is wild to suggest they make an entire season out of a plotline from the book that objectively doesnt go anywhere and even a lot of book fans dont like. Same but slightly less for Mereen, doesnt go anywhere while we wait for major characters to arrive. That just isnt how tv works. You're talking about long segments of unpopular tv without the main characters. No peter Dinklage etc, for years, so that actor is never coming back, so many reasons this is a bad idea. The show would just be wildly unpopular and then cancelled, so might as well just end it poorly at that point.
@@Luminousreign - wait, which plotline are you talking about, with the whole "fans of the books don't like"? Because the Greyjoys and the Dornish plots are some of the favorites in the ASOIAF fandom, from waaaay before their pathetic substitutes appeared in the corpse of the show... There's a reason why fans of the book were so sad about the GoT portrayal of Euron Crow's Eye, and the infamously pathetic Kingsmoot. (for what it's worth, I was a fan of GRRM and ASOIAF before season 1 of the show aired, so I'm well aware of what was popular and what wasn't in the fandom) And about Peter Dinklage, he's a pretty big part of both Griff & Young Griff stories, + Jorah Mormont of course, so he would still be around. Just keep Illyrio Mopatis around like in the book (instead of just putting Lord Varys in his place), and you get a fantastic sparring partner for he and his wits. I'm talking about wildly popular book plotlines, and with the right castings fans of the show would have been balls deep into that stuff. Just look at *House of the Dragon* , now a bunch of new actors are total fan favorites, all of them are 100% new, and none of them are Peter Dinklage. Speaking of, show-wise Tyrion peaked in season 4 anyway, and D&D's decision of not having Jaime's confession follow his little brother's escape removed a lot of our favorite dwarf's motivations for the future of the story. Terrible decision. #JusticeForTysha Anyway, with the right casting, I maintain that the ratio of bad/good seasons could have been changed from 50/50 to 80/20 in favor of quality seasons, which is far from negligible. ps: I'm not a huge fan of the Meereen plot, even if it has its charms politics wise, as it reminds me of early GoT King's Landing's scheming.... They could have still done much better than the speedrun we got in the show.
If we really wanted a perfect show or near perfect show then GRRM should have finished the damn books first or at the very least finished winds of winter so it could give the writers of the show a better understanding/purpose for all the new storylines introduced in books 4&5. If Winds of Winter had been released before season 1 started production I don’t think they fuck up Stannis, Euron Greyjoy, The Martells, Barriston Selmy, they don’t cut out Jon Connington/Faegon. We’d have a better understanding of Bran’s story arc so he doesn’t become a pointless character. I could go on and on. Instead a 10-12 season masterpiece turned into a 7.5 season shit show of disappointment. D&D deserve blame for letting there big egos get in the way, HBO deserve blame for putting to much trust in them, but GRRM should have finished the books, that’s what most obvious in hindsight.
"You don't understand Littlefinger's motivation until you get to the end of the scene and realize that Littlefinger's motivation is his....motivation for what he wants to do" These guys truly earned their nicknames of Dumb and Dumber
I am SO glad someone made this video. I'm tired of people talking about "season 8 is where GoT went downhill." No... it was way before that. In my humble opinion, GoT went downhill the moment Tyrions trial ended and he left king's landing. Not saying anything about the scene itself, just that that marked the end of sensible storywriting. If we really dug, we could find early signs even before that. But Tywin's death, and Tyrion fleeing king's landing was really the true beginning of the end in my book.
I think it started with shirtless Ramsey. Somehow Asha teleported to the other side of Westeros with a ship, what apparently can walk on land to the Dreadfort, assaulted the seat of House Bolton with a small squad and somehow knew that Reek was kept with in the dogpen. And then Ramsey comes out without a shirt, because the lump of fat sadistic asshole from the books will surely be brave enough to go balls in. I would expect this from a mental fucking Umber or a Karstark, not from Ramsey.
I always think it's funny when people go "Oh, Game of Thrones was really good *except* for the ending" Brah, it was an accelerating downward spiral from the beginning of the 2nd half.
Arya in the brothel hawking oysters is basically the equivalent of a hotdog man at a ball game just kicking the door in and yelling HOTDOGS GET YA HOTDOGS HERE!! While youre midthrust
I have to disagree. Oysters are a known aphrodisiac. It’s not like she’s is still yelling that she has oysters. I’d equate it more to the hot dog guy going into a sports bar and going to the counter to try to sell them to the establishment. Hot dogs are sports foods and people who see this guy walking around with something that fits their situation, would possibly buy them
13:35 is in the books actually. Melisandre says "you know nothing Jon Snow" to him at the end of a chapter in Dance with Dragons, it wasn't invented by Dave and Dan. The implication isn't necessarily that she can talk to the dead, more that she can see his deepest desires and memories.
@@0cidd0 The thing is, magic in Game of Thrones is supposed to be ambiguous so I don't think even George would ever want to fully explain it. So I give this part of pass. With that said, I still think Season 5 sucks, so I'm not arguing with that lol
I remember seething with rage at Melisandre in that moment. I don't remember Jon's reaction after that. I figured Jon's reaction would also be rage, but with more grief leaving him stunned.
@@nebuloushammer8773 It doesn't really explore his reaction because the chapter ends, but I always thought it was a super cool way to close the chapter. It actually gave me shivers. R'hollor knows some shit haha
Yeah the point of the line is pretty obvious tbh. Melisandre proving to Jon that her visions in the flame are real by knowing something she shouldn't possibly know.
The acting performances are so phenomenal that it masks a lot of writing problems in the show. However, by the end, there was no hiding or distracting from it.
Actually I think it's the other way around. The better acting is, the more visible it is how bad the writing is. My favorte example from GOT would be probably Margaery line to the High Sparrow about Cersei "not meaning to suffer consequences of her action". Natalie Dormer does her best to deliver that line but it only makes it funnier how illogical the sentence she said actually is. To the point when I heard it originally I assumed she got the line wrong, but they decided to use this take anyway because it was a good take. And apart from that, Daenerys. Emilia Clarke's acting got worse and worse with her character becoming supposedly more powerful. She was good when she played the powerless Daenerys finding her own way, but when Daenerys was supposed to become this calculating leader about to conquer the world, Emilia Clarke unfortunately couldn't pull it off at all.
The gradual shrinking of the once-expansive Realm was a real shame. It took a MONTH or two to go from Kingslanding to Winterfell, and from Winterfell to the Wall. But by the end of things, the quick-traveling was out of control. It really felt like the time it would take for journeys like those were reduced to a manner of days.
@@ambre4144 Yeah... Being the Warden of the North, South, East, or West was SUCH a big deal because of all the territory and households that came with it. Eventually, it was as if being Warden meant being the Mayor of some smalltown with like one or two other important families in it. If we got lucky. The show’s settings pretty much jumped from sprawling city to backwoods, bumf*ck nowhere. There was no middle ground. It would’ve been nice to see other location types and meet other households.
The sand snakes were the most pointless characters with the dumbest writing. I agree, and would argue the "bad poosy" line was the worst in the entire series.
people of Dorn just accepting Oberyn's girlfriend as their new ruler makes zero sense, specially since they liked Doran, they'd accept Oberyn as a replacement but not her
There's no one else left? 😅 They cut the rest of Doran's children and in the books, pretty much everyone wants war with Lannisters except for Doran and surprise surprise, Ellaria, who vehemently oppose any actions against the Lannisters.
@@nunyabiznes33 Yes there should be someone left. Even if Doran lost all his children, it wont compromise the line of succession. Kings die all the time historically without heirs. Doran would likely have nephews or uncles who then would be next in line, and if by some small chance he has none, then some distant cousin would have the rightful claim. Literally anyone except some dumb mistress would have become king. The show treats the setting as if only the named characters are relevant and everything else is void. It makes the world feel small. Cercei also should not have inherited the throne, it would have immediately passed to some Baratheon lord that could even remotely prove he has the slightest family connection to Robert, not his widow wife.
I’m guessing being the mother of the kings nieces and the fact they follow her is why. They technically would be where the succession went to with what characters we are given knowledge of
@@robbiewira5344 The problem isn't really that she's an unreasonable successor. The problem imo is that we didn't see any of the process, which is part of the bigger "they forgot about dorne" problem. We got to see the iron islands choose their king. We got to see the seven kingdoms choose their king at the end. In both cases, it was nonsensical bullshit, but at least we're not left wondering "how the hell did Euron become king???".
Sansa's arc in season 5 was the first time that I noticed that the show was going downhill, personally. It's clear D&D wanted to have Theon's arc turn out the same was in the books but didn't want to reintroduce Jeyne Poole, so they just gave that role to Sansa and it didn't work at all. As for Barristan, I actually don't mind the idea of them killing off Barristan at all in theory. My problem with it is that Barristan was necessary as a character to have the Meereen plot happen as it did in the books. Barristan is a knight, not a politician. So he is easily manipulated and under his leadership Meereen starts to fall apart. But in season 6 of "Game of Thrones" they instead put Tyrion at the helm of Meereen. Tyrion is meant to be a genius politician, yet Meereen still falls apart and ends up at war. This does not work. Politically inexperienced knight in charge -> Meereen falls apart? Yes. Politically experience genius Tyrion in charge -> Meereen falls apart? No.
Also if Stannis is supposed to be king and continue his family’s line, wouldn’t killing his only surviving heir defeat the whole purpose of that since she won’t be able to continue the line? They really did stannis dirty
In Westeros women don't continue their father's line (yes, yes, Daenerys, I know) but normally marry into a different house. Shireen's greyscale damages her marriage prospects significantly.
@@Mathemagical55 Still a princess and her husband would be king. And aside from the non harmful greyscale she is pretty. She also has great personality. Im betting all my money that most lords would fall to her feet the second her hand would be "offered".
yes, but it held itself together and had some highs. The spectacle kept it up and made normies watch it. But the show basically became a meme of itself. "no one is safe, your main character might DIE!!!. LOOOOOKKK, SEX. THEY ARE HAVING SEX. HAHAHAHAHA HE SAID A COCK JOKE, I LOVE COCK JOKES. omg THE DRAGONS ARE KILLING EVERYTHING>>>>>. WOW LOOK AT THIS INSANE ACTION battle sequence" Thats what the show became and thats what normies who arent used to watching deep, dialogue paced dramas got attached too. S5 you have to pay deep attention for its flaws to pop out. But S6 is when it became pretty obvious when we started seeing jokes that belonged in a marvel movie happening in the first episode. It got really redundant there but again, it held itself up with spectacle and pushing the most favorite, simple and easy to digest characters to the front and kicking dialogue heavy methodical characters out. Suddenly dany, john, and cersie, were the main characters. Everyone else was a side character. And ariya became that cool edgy badass side character that everyone likes but doesnt overstay her welcome. S7 was great because we all WANTED these main characters to go at it, and johns targaryan ancestry to be told to him. THe nightking shit and also dany coming to westeros for the first time and cersie being threatened. These tiny threads held it together until the abomination that was S8 that just lit the last but of threads on fire. At that point it got so stupid, stupid people felt like was making fun of them.
For those who'd already read the books, complications in writing choices and the ill-planned diversions in narrative were immediately apparent. From turning Dany's first sexual encounter with Drogo essentially into a rape scene (Jamie and Cersei too that one time) to magnifying the subtleties of the novels. For example, on my first reading, I never picked up that Loras and Renly were gey for each other, nor did I pick up that Reek was less of a man than Theon Greyjoy had been. But the show made sure to literally jiggle their sausages in our faces. Idk, Seasons 1-4 were all great television, but GoT was always a poor substitute for the Song of Ice and Fire novels.
@@Megacliff , that last sentence summarises it well. Seasons 1-4 are definitely outstanding television, some of the best in the 2010s but it is inferior to the books in many ways. There are aspects of it I prefer (such as Margery and Olenna’s increasing roles) but at the end of the day, the true experience of A Song of Ice and Fire is in the books.
Cersei was not lying to Cat about the first child dying: she repeats the same story with Robert in S1 (the one where they discuss their marriage and hate for one another), so that cannot be a lie.
Also considering she lost the baby and it was their first and after that she had Jamie's kids. I think the prophecy still works. The thing that doesn't work for me is cersei getting called Lorraine on their wedding night and from there she then chose to make the seed go elsewhere. So either she got pregnant that night with Roberts kid or had a change of heart for one night.
@@maximum9977yes it does, it just shows how no matter what Cersei does she can’t escape her destiny. She is bound to only have 3 children, not 4, not 5, if she were to try, the babies who aren’t those 3 will die in the womb or at birth. Cersei isn’t infertile, she can have children so obviously she would fall pregnant multiple times, but if the babies aren’t Jamie’s or one of the 3 then they simply aren’t supposed to exist.
@HouseTargaryen24601 well the question was children not babies or infants so it doesn't bother me that he wasn't counted. They never even mentioned him having a name.
If they burn Shireen in the books, it's probably just gonna be by Melissandre herself with support of the fanatics. Jon sent away Maester Aemon and Mance's baby, leaving no other suitable sacrifice.
I think its not impossible Stannis does that in the books. But he will probably have a much better reason to do that. Maybe it will be related to save humanity from The Others, protect the Wall or maybe Melissandre will convince him that its the only way to bring Jon back (Obviously after telling him he is the key to stop The Others).
But why would Mel think they need to burn Shireen to bring Jon back? I know they say death pays for life, but that was never the case with Thoros and Beric.
@@fabriciorosso9807 But that's literally the reason why he does that in the show. He believes that he has to stop the white walkers, the true enemy. If he dies, the world is doomed. Stannis is a logical and practical man. He understands the logic and sees no choice. Of course the issue is that its not very well explained, partly because Stannis never talks how he feels about things.
I had a friend who passed at peak COVID-19. We watched some Game of Thrones together and she died right around as she watched 5th season's 2nd episode. I'm devastated that I lost a close friend but glad that she didn't get to watch her favorite show get obliterated into the ground. Rest in peace, Agnes.
Another issue with Barristan compared to Grey Worm is that Barristan is trained to fight alone and as a bodyguard, he is hyper-alert and aware of his surroundings and potential threats. The idea that he would be trapped in such a situation is highly dubious, but if anyone has the credentials to get out, it would be him. ITB, when the Mad King was taken hostage in the town of Duskendale, Barristan went in alone, while the town was besieged by the Hand, Tywin Lannister, made his way through the town, into the castle, rescued the king and fought their way to freedom. This is a town on a war-time footing, on high alert, guarding an extremely valuable hostage. Yes, it's improbable for Barristan to escape his death scenario, but if anyone can do it, it would be him. Meanwhile, Grey Worm and the Unsullied are NOT warriors, they are soldiers, trained to fight in disciplined formations. They are trained with an emphasis in group-combat, relying on large numbers acting in perfect coordination, not on brilliant moves and tricks. They are repeatedly contrasted with the knights of Westeros. The knights are brave, the Unsullied are disciplined. The knights are skilled, the Unsullied are coordinated. The knights have strength, the Unsullied have endurance. Knights are an irresistible force, Unsullied are an immovable object. Knights are members of the elite class, whose lives are the most valuable in their culture (and thus, are trained to survive) while the Unsullied are slaves, who have no individual value (and thus, their lives are resources to be expended). TL;DR - their backgrounds and history and training mean Barristan is the one who should be walking away from an ambush like the masked goons, not Gray Worm.
One little thing I wanted to point out. I have my brightness completely up and I STILL can’t see the clips from s8, it’s complete black except for their faces and torches it’s painful.
1. At that point, Ser Barristan should have practically lived in his plate armor like in the books. 2. In a narrow corridor, there are only so many dudes that can fight you at a time 3. the Sons of the Harpy were basically soft rich kids without training, wearing cloth and vision impairing masks whilst wielding daggers . Barristan should have dogwalked those fools.
I guess such things come from the common misconception that knights werent really good fighters compared to for exmple Samurai. Reality is that your average Knight in plate or chainmail is basicly a walking killing machine. The amount of training and actual battlefield experience that these men had would make them able to kill a dozen of the sons of Harpy without any serious injuries. Contray to common belive medival armour is almost impossible to penetrate and the "weak spots" ( parts of your body that arent covered ) are common knowledge for a knight. So the dagger in the neck will not happen since he will allways look out for such foolish attempts and would punish them accordingly. Its really sad because even though its a fantasy show I thought the protayal of Jorah in earlier seasons showed that at least someone there knew what a knight and his equitment are capable of. But I guess they had to show how much cooler a dude who dosent even wear armour is ( Syrio Forell ). He may be a excellent fencer but that wouldnt help him in any real battle when he is only wearing his pijama
Are all the sons of the Harpy rich kids without training? The rich people in Mereen probably had guards who were trained fighters. If some of them stayed loyal to their masters and joined the sons of the Harpy their ranks would include some competent fighters who might be a danger for Barristan in a four or five on one fight.
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 I doubt that a bodyguard could stand a chance against a professional killer. And even then they are still only armed with daggers and wear zero armour. No better way to get your stomach opened
@@sarstenstahlsarsten6577 One bodyguard couldn't, several might have a chance. The effectiveness of armour however is an issue through the entire show. Sometimes it is really helpful, on other occasions people are stabbed through armour.
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 And that is pretty emberassing. I challenge anyone to try and penetrate a authentic plate armour using any weapon of the time period. Idk if you bet me 100.000 that you could do it, I would just laugh and book a nice vacation in asia.
Season 5 was the beginning of the end. It’s literally just a build up to Season 6, whom is celebrated only because it has sone “cool” scenes that gives payoff to some major multi seasons arc. You could considere the 2 one long season. The problem was that after those payoff there was nothing more to work with. And then seasons 7-8 came…
I feel like D&D were like "hey, merging Gendry and Edric Storm worked out. Let's put Sansa in the Jeyne Poole plot!" Except changing that one thing (Ramsay marries the real Sansa instead of fake Arya) turns a bunch of different plots upside down. The ruining of Littlefinger that you mentioned is a big part, but then also it changes the loyalty of the Boltons!! The whole point of doing this in the book was that the Lannisters were trying to cement the claim of the Boltons (their ally) in the North by supposedly giving them a Stark. But in the show, this means that Roose has openly rebelled /against/ the Lannisters. Absolute chaos. Same thing with Jon's real name being Aegon. Just smashing together Aegon/Young Griff's story with Jon's since they knew they weren't going to pull Aegon into the show.
this! i remember them being outnumbered. the sons of the harpy would’ve either killed them or imprisoned them, that was the logic in the earlier seasons
When it comes to the Hardhome white walker fight scene, the Thenn was pretty much just a random for the white walker, but Jon Snow was very influential person and the white walker most likely knew that, due to the Night King's powers. So my guess is that it wanted to toy with Jon, before killing him. As for Stannis, the problem was that the actor of Stannis wanted to leave the show, this sadly is a huge issue in TV shows that movies or books don't have to worry about. Same thing happened with Andrea in The Walking Dead too. In the comics she survived way longer, but in the TV show, the actress wanted out, so her character was killed.
All this can be answered with D&D refusing to adapt books 4 and 5 (AFFC and ADWD). For example, Illyrio is cut because Young Giff/Jon Connington is cut, so the whole plot doesn't go anywhere.
The first cracks in the show appeared in season 4 with the Theon rescue attempt arc, when Asha and the best killers on the iron islands ran away from a shirtless Ramsey and some dogs
Was there a character with more wasted potential than Stannis? Such a complex character, whose morality or lack their of, is often thrown to the wayside.
The bit at the start of people saying Cersei was lying about her first child, yet she mentions it to Robert during their conversation and he recalls the pregnancy too
People who get mad when you say there are issues with Season 5 absolutely blow my mind. That was the season where I started to see the cracks in the show right away. Dorne alone was the big red flag that things were going downhill.
Especially the contrast to the best season, which was the previous one. I hoped at that time that this was just a bad phase and it would get better after.
Season 5 caused me to start reading the books, because it suddenly was so much worse than the other seasons and people told me everything was different from the books. So I read them and I loved how the books became BETTER after season 4/book 3, instead of worse like the show.
@@frankvandorp2059 Definitely. The Dorne Plotline in Feast for Crows is one of my favorites in the books, especially the plot twist about Doran's intentions. Really blows the mind how they didn't use it.
So little finger can't just let Breann go because if she told someone else he had Sansa then he'd be screwed. Arya waiting at the house of black and white wasn't a day, it is implied that it is over multiple days she waits.
regarding the North thing: CAN WE REMEMBER MOAT CAILIN. There's a whole ass scene about Theon retaking the place for the Boltons but from there on its never cited as an obstacle again
This is where the show jumped the freaking shark. Also if you watch the Dragon Demands, he explains that D&D wrote specifically to showcase their favorite actors, and they killed off the characters of actors they didn’t like. They didn’t like Barristan’s actor, so they killed off his character because he told them that the season 5 plot wasn’t following the books. Every plot was written to try and showcase the actors they like most and try to get them Emmy’s. It’s even worse than what you theorized. They literally admitted they only added Dorne last minute because they were fan boys of Rome and wanted to give the actress playing Oberyn’s GF a bigger role. Plus they hated dialogue and wanted to convey the characters feelings and motivation through them emoting their faces. The even admit the only reason they married Sansa off to Ramsey was so that they could get Sophie Turner an Emmy for her performance when being SA by Ramsey. Season 5 is also the season that GRRM was gone. D&D and Martin had a falling out during season 4 when they revealed to Martin despite promising him that they would faithfully adapt the story, they decided to rush the story and only do 7 seasons. Season 7 and 8 were supposed to be one season. But they broke it into two because HBO begged them to more seasons. HBO also offered them 12-13 seasons and they refused.
Kill Bronn in the fifth season (or in future seasons) would have been much better to show how the greed of a mercenary can lead him to extremely dangerous situations with the obvious reward of death. However, they decided to make someone who is one of the worst characters morally speaking the lord of Highgarden just because... he's likable?
I feel like Lancel Lannister is still mentioned several times in the books.... battle injury, festering wounds, hair turned white, then religious conversion. It's easy to dismiss when you're reading, bc there's so many characters, but I recall Cersei "regretting" it (over solo wine, presumably)
I must admit am still confused how are the high sparrow keeping the Tyrell’s and the Lannisters prisoners. The westerlands and the reach is huge their armies are huge. Do the sparrows have a larger army more men? Are they threatening their banner men?
The sparrows have religious authority and the authority of the lords comes from religion, and so the vast armies of the Westerlands and the Reach will defect if the sparrows declare that opposing them is heretical.
They are hold up underneath a religious building. A) storming it with soldiers would look really bad and B) only so many people can fit in it at once. You’re 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.99 soldiers are cool and every thing but when only 40 of them can get through at once the defenders only need 41 to have an advantage. Also you would need to free the prisoners incredibly quickly or else they’ll just kill them to prevent you from freeing them. There is a point where the tyrells are willing to raid the building and free the prisoners themselves and thus spare the Lannister’s the bad press. They go so far as the march a force up the steps before being told to stand down by the Lannister’s who were concerned that it would spark a small folk rebellion, feed the reputation that they rule through fear and force alone, and were concerned that the prisoners would just be executed. So instead they try to negotiate and play along in the hopes of getting their people back safely.
I didn't watch GOT until 2022, which was after its initial run on HBO, obviously. So, I had the good fortune to just binge watch the entire show. Going from Season 4, which I absolutely loved(!) to Season 5 within minutes of each other, the difference was palpable! You could pinpoint the exact moment where Dave and Dan ran out of book material. Or, to put it differently, where the book material they decided to adapt ended and where they had to come up with plot and dialogue completely on their own. And it progressively got worse the longer it went on until Season 8 made me question my life choices at the end. I read the ASOIAF books some time later, and seeing the plot threads that GRRM began in AFFC and ADWD - the latter of which was published when the GOT show began airing - it's frustrating to see what Dave and Dan chose not to adapt. I'm convinced if they included Grif and Young Grif, the later seasons would have been amazing, making the struggle for the throne much more interesting. If Jon, after becoming Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, acted more like his book counterpart, being more cunning and even duplicitous to some of his friends like Sam, it would have been more interesting. Sansa was done dirty by Dave and Dan, seeing where she is in the show compared to where she is in the book. Littlefinger is basically Emperor Palpatine in the book, but he's a literal moron in the show once Season 5 starts. Don't even get me started with how Stannis the Mannis was butchered in the show versus his book counterpart. Excluding Lady Stonehart, who appeared in ASOS, was also a mistake. There's so much more to say, but some points mostly pertain to later seasons of the GOT show. George really should have been more involved than he was in the later seasons.
we need more rant like this to prevent Season 3 of HoTD from ruining itself again. my confidence in this dragon franchise was finally restored after S1, but now after s2, i start to feel the S7 & 8 vibe from GoT over again. knowing HoTD will not be finished until at least 2028, it's a huge emotional investment. i just do not want to experience the "trauma" again. the directors need to understand every plot gotta carry meanings and has actual profound impact to the storyline. otherwise, no matter how big scene is, it just does not matter.
I have face blindness. When Lancel Lanester came back as a diciple, I had NO idea it was the same person unitl this video. I probably missed his name being dropped at some point but damn.
When D&D shot past the source material, they were completely exposed as untalented hacks with no knowledge or understanding of the fantasy genre. George deserves a huge part of the blame for all this.
Selling oysters at the brothel makes sense, though. They have a reputation of being aphrodisiacs (they're not but Big Oyster doesn't want you to know that)
for what it's worth, one of the 4 non-negotiables that GRRM gave to Benioff and Weiss was that Stannis sacrifices Shireen to the Lord of Light. I definitely think that the execution was mishandled though... Like, he got VERRRRY little for that HUGE sacrifice.
He burns his daughter alive because the weather was bad and Ramsay (probably shirtless) and 20 “good men” somehow burn down most of his camp undetected. It’s insane, I can’t imagine how they thought that was enough motivation
The writing of the series and the books is day and night. Where the producers of Game of Thrones were applying plot armor, Brienne the Magic Teleporter, and Dorne suffering from "this is clearly a small filming set" syndrome, George Martin was making everyone around Mereen dying of literally diarrhea, and explaining how such an epidemic could wipe an army faster than a dragon. Martin's realism doesn't change and neither he suffers from lazy writing, even after all these years he's taking with the books. In the TV series, Drogo dies from an infected wound, then in the last seasons, the protagonists are superheroes who can survive Fast and Furious like stunts. In the books, Drogo dies from and infected wound, and in the last book, Victarion is also completely fucked up from an infected wound. Martin stays consistent, and he knows very well when to use fantasy and when to use nature as a real threat.
I know this is a late comment but you are absolutely correct that Dorne suffered from "this is clearly a small filming set" syndrome, just not in the usual way. Instead of building a set for the Water Gardens they filmed at the Alcázar of Seville, a gorgeous Spanish palace with magnificent Islamic architecture, which actually was an inspiration for GRRM when he was imagining Dorne. Unfortunately, because it is a protected historic site, there are tons of rules and restrictions for film crews. The fight scene was supposed to be indoors at night (which makes WAY more sense narratively) but they weren't allowed to do fight scenes indoors. The only place they were allowed to do fight scenes was an open courtyard in the gardens. The production literally had to bring in potted trees behind which they could hide the cameras. And they only had about a week at the Alcázar, including choreographing, rehearsing, and filming the fight scene (which is an insanely truncated schedule) and all the other Dorne scenes. It's not clear to me (maybe someone else knows) if they didn't know about the restrictions in advance or thought they could accomplish everything in one week. Either way, I wish they had filmed what they could at the Alcázar and then on a sound state recreated parts of it for the fight scene. That fight scene is pitiful and completely unworthy of the setting and the characters.
@@emilochka Ah, I understand a bit more then. I still think David and Dan deserve some merit because many places from the books are super diffculy to portray, like Qarth, which is enourmous in the books. I think they did a great job in bringing the books to life, but they unfortunately weren't up to the task when they ran out of source material. It's a shame they are being remembered more for the bad cliches of the two last seasons...
The switch in quality to me at least happened after Jaime and Tyrion talked in the dungeon tbh. In the books after that conversation he becomes so bitter and spiteful and it's what pushes him to go kill Tywin. In the show he and Jaime just..... Hug it out. And they make Shae attack him when he walks in so her murder would be justified and it'll be in self defense and he says he's sorry to her corpse. I was thinking "hold on are they gonna make Tyrion a good guy here?" and yeeeep. They scrubbed him of all grey morality or bad traits to make him the likeable sassy guy who's always right in the later season.
I'm very glad you mentioned the melting snow. Back in the day, me and the lads at Stannermen (a Facebook group dedicated to the Mannis) were baffled by the fact that Shireen's burning caused the snow to melt, and Miranda falling from the same height died instantly, but then enough snow survived to cushion Sansa and Theon. It baffled us, yes, but there was little discourse about it online among non-Stannis fans, and I'm super glad you did point out the lack of logic on that
I still remember when the first 4 episodes of S5 leaked early and after just coming off S4, I couldn't ever wait for the official S5 episodes to air. So, I watched those leaked 4 episodes and immediately knew something was off. I didn't quite have the writing "knowledge" at that time to really put my finger on it but definitely felt the show and especially characters had taken a big hit in the writing department.
Just finished re-watched Season 5 this morning and the decline is very noticeable. It's where the show starts becoming something you just have on in the background.
“We reconceived the role to make it worthy of the actor’s talents” - Benioff & Weiss, episode 5.10 Blu ray commentary “Why did we put Sansa in the Winterfell rape storyline? To see These Performances, These Faces” - episode 5.6 Blu ray commentary
Another reason why Cersei wasn't lying to Cat when she told her about her fourth child is that it would be a really hard lie to tell. The wife of a High Lord would absolutely know if the King had another trueborn child, no matter how long it lived, the ravens would have flown the moment the Queen gave birth. Either Cat knew about it but had forgotten in that moment, since it was a while ago, or she was pretending not to know because she didn't want to talk about it. There's no way Cersei would have risked such a huge lie, it would just be incredibly awkward.
That just shows you how forgetful ellaria sand is as a character in the show. Even a dead character name that never got screen time is remembered more than her
Tywin's death marked the end of the quality of writing of the series. This season may not be the worst of the latter end seasons, but looking back on it, it was an obvious sign of things to come in so many respects.
Another problem with Brienne coming upon Stannis is the Boltons should be actively looking for him. The enemy general's surrender or death was immensely important. It was usually an immediate "game over" in warfare prior to the mid 19th century. Yes they'd won, but proof Stannis was dead would take all fight out of anyone still loyal
The burning of Shireen is especially stupid within the world’s own logic because Shireen did indeed have King’s blood in her, so burning her should’ve yielded SOMETHING to help Stannis win. The fact that nothing comes from this sacrifice puts the entire faith of the Red God into question, especially when we KNOW that in this universe the Red God does exist and has shown great power before, but here, they get nothing in return for life which absolutely does not make sense given everything was followed to the letter by the Red God’s most devout followers. If the Red God hadn’t resurrected people or created shadow assassins before now, this would’ve been an interesting commentary on the consequences of blind faith, but ffs Stannis himself SAW the power of the Red God, so to get nothing in return for his only daughter makes no sense whatsoever after everything we’ve come to understand! 😆😆😆
I'm lovin the ac soundtracks dropped here and there in the background man I know its a small detail but it really fits well here with the game of thrones world.
It would have been more interesting and compelling, if Ramsay defeated Stannis throughout real guerilla warfare. Like blocking roads and bridges with trees, bribe scouts, lay small ambushes and so on to delay Stannis army so they suffer more attrition and losing morale before the final battle. That would have been realistic and would have shown more of Ramsays qualities.
Here’s a scenario that I believe could have fixed the burning of the princess. The stress of preparing for a battle that Stannis has little chance of winning causes him to slip into a coma. After a couple of days, Melisandre convinces his wife to allow her to burn shereen to revive him. The burning happens, her screams stir Stannis, but he doesn’t completely wake up or understand what’s going on, and the next day he sees the remains of the fire as he’s informed of Melisandre abandoning the camp and his wife’s death
Bryan Cogman's justification on the Sand Snakes fight is that it was originally supposed to take place in the corridors of the palace during the night, and be a very close quarters claustrophobic thing - but they chose to film at a palace that's a major tourist site, so they couldn't film at night or inside at all. Despite this, rather than finding a new location, they opted to film in the open garden, forcing the actresses to film the fight scene when they'd only had a few days' practice to learn some basic choreography, and happening during the day meant they couldn't use stunt doubles, as well as it making no sense in universe Overall, the only reason the Dorne stuff was in Season 5 was because Oberyn had been popular and they wanted to try and capitalise on that by adapting the Dorne portions instead of the Riverlands stuff, vastly overestimating the amount of screen time they'd be able to give it. It was added in very late, and the writing extremely rushed, which is why it's such a mess
I started watching GoT at shortly after season 5 aired. I was kinda shocked by how different season 5 felt compared to the first four seasons. Personally, I feel that season 4 is when the series was at its strongest, so the weaknesses of season 5 are even more pronounced.
My theory of why Little Finger married Sansa off to the Boltons so that if they won against Stannis he would be allied with the north and if they lost he could go thank Stannis for freeing Sansa and then make allies with him, maybe I’m wrong but it’s the way I see it
I have 3 things to say:
1. I really want to remaster the Season 7 Devoid of Logic video since it's a measly 8 minutes long and I've grown a lot as a creator since then.
2. The music in the description is more detailed and I'll start listing out tracks I even use from Epidemic Sound. As a side note, Kara's Main Theme from Detroit Become Human is objectively one of the best songs from a video game soundtrack.
3. I also got engaged :) I put a pic in the discord announcements if you're interested.
4. I jumbled Ellaria and Elia my b. They're practicallyyyyy the same :)
congrats man 🫡 just don’t invite walder frey and your good
Congrats on the engagement 🙌🏻 wishing you all the best
Congrats
Best series. Remaster away!!
Let’s go man congratulations!!🎊
Stannis' arc was the first sign of what was going to happen.
Protagonists being stupid, long arcs ending anti-climatically and villians randomly succeeding at whatever they try.
It is so sad with Stannis. Becouse in show he was far better then in the books.
@@maximum9977 Not true
It didn't even make sense how half Stannis' army was able to desert since they were trapped by heavy snow that didn't melt until the night before the battle with the Boltons. And it makes no sense that they wouldn't notice so many of their soldiers leaving until right before the battle.
@@KingOfMadCows Don't forget Ramsay's "20 good men" stealing all horses from Stannis' army who had a massive cavalry force.
What they did to the one true King was downright criminal, the goat of goats the finest military commander alive in westeros defeated by the winter is rubbish. The nights watch should not even be an option for the pretenders david and dan.
season 5 is when the plot armor became something different, Catelyn captured tyrion and it started a war, but jamie can sneak into dorne, kill multiple dornish guards, assault a prince and no war is started
Lannisters value their family name and reputation more than the Dornish I suppose.
@@marvymarv959 New to me that Dornish people are not proud. Poor Oberyn died for no reason. Hey, you're so damn smart.
Robb stark was already coming for Ned, what were Lannisters supposed to do?
I keep on thinking "it's been 5 years, I should move on" but then another one of these videos pop up and I'm reminded of my disappointment.
Truly a fate worst than death
same
Jesus it's been 5 years!
@@zaer-ezart lol 4 real
She was the one dammit she was the one. You don't get over that quickly.
The whole Loras “trial” and the only evidence against him being that his squire knows that Loras has a birthmark on his upper thigh was so stupid!! He is a squire!! Squires help their lords undress and dress all the time! It’s literally their job. So why would it be shocking that Oliver knew about Loras’s birthmark???
margaery being imprisoned because one guy with no proof says she walked in on them is even stupider + why isn’t jaime also arrested for incest and adultery? the high sparrow literally goes on and on about how everyone should be held accountable, yet he’s cool with jaime being free somehow? when they did go after cersei?
Loras was also a complete idiot and tried to attack his squire when he said this immediately making it obvious that he was guilty.
honestly, it remains me of the trials made by the Inquisition. If they want to punish they will do it, trials were never fair, they were just made as protocol
I never thought about that but that makes so much sense lol like it's not a crime that he knows that because saw him naked. Like you said he's his squire, probably dressed him for battle countless times.
Even going by a recent House of the Dragon, like half the kingsguard and the king himself has seen his brother Aemond's dick lol does that make them gay?
Stupid writing, like most of the show once they ran out of book material
@@johanalejandrocazadordepin7225 Yeah but correct me if I am wrong, the inquisition did not target kings but normal people. Loras is a noble and a fucking Tyrell. Surely it cannot be THAT easy to get rid of a noble.
The biggest flaw was Stannis killing his daughter. I quote "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is the law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert."
Yeah. More likely it's Melissandre and the remaining fanatics at the Wall that would burn Shireen, especially after Jon sent maester Aemon and Mance's babu away, leaving them no other suitable sacrifices.
@@nunyabiznes33heh, babu
This is actually an authentic GRRM written (planned) plot point, but obviously they didn’t pull it off lol
@@SklLLLY You got any proof for that? For all I know book Stannis would never even consider this and would 100% execute Melissandre for even suggesting such a crime to humanity. Yeah he is ruthless, dutifulf and tough. But I just cant see this happening
@@sarstenstahlsarsten6577 I don’t recall the interview but I’m sure it’s not hard to find. It’s obviously inspired by King Agamemnon’s story when he has to sacrifice his daughter bc the weather won’t let them sail to Troy…
The fact that Dany walked across the fighting pit to Drogon and none of the Sons of the Harpy threw a spear into her was serious plot armor.
Eh maybe they didn't wanna risk it w the giant flying nuke
@@sabrinaleedance except they are shown throwing spears directly at said giant flying nuke, impaling it... be real, it's plot armor
Loras is a noble and a knight he'd have servants who would bring him clothes in the morning and some would probably help him bathe. Everyone in highgarden should know about his birthmark really.
Never thought about that. But I guess they explain it through Loras angry outburst. In germany we say:" Nur getroffene Hunde bellen/ only hit dogs bark". Which basiclly means that only people who know they did something wrong have such a strong reaction to being accused or criticised.
@@sarstenstahlsarsten6577 thats weird.
I mist say i have strongest reaction when iam innovent..burst of rage
@@JindrichGebhart93 I also heard that the Stasi ( Staatssicherheit/ the Gestappo of the DDR ) said the same thing about suspects.
Basically a innocent suspect will react with protest to being questioned and being "held captive", rather sooner then later. While a guilty suspect will try to bargain and plead with "investigators". But you also have to note that the Stasi used "interrigation tactics" that would be considered torture in our view.
So yeah I would say you can never know what someone is guilty of without sound evidence.
@@sarstenstahlsarsten6577 i watched many interrogation videos where you expect a suspect to get mad when being accused of a crime he did not commit. the ones that did it usually stayed silent. so I don't know how much I agree with this
also its natural to get annoyed and angry when someone is accusing you of something you did not do
this is a reply to your first comment with your german saying
@@hmp01 Like I (kinda) said: You never know if someone is guilty until you have hard evidence.
Some innocent peoole get angry while others stay calm and try to reason. It all comes down to the person and overall situation.
I just wanted to point out that some people could ( and actually did ) believe Loras to be guilty because he had such an emotional reaction.
Let's be real: Barristan died because Ian McElhinney openly critiqued D&D for making up stupid plots and not sticking to the books (at a point where Feast and Dance were both still up for being adapted faithfully). They wanted to punish the actor and set an example
That is probably true, Kit Harington spoke about that he wished that showjon was more like bookjon in some interviews, then after that in later seasons D&D wrote in height jokes about jon/kit
Wth?!?!?!
Dumb and Dumber should've taken their leave from the show after season 5. It's beyond me how HBO or whoever was directly in charge of them didn't sense the degradation of the show. Probably blinded by the money
This is it. Each season had greater viewership figures than previous one. V hard to argue to change the formula. Last two seasons had best figures overall.
The fall off from S4 to S5 was crazy
Season 4 already had some issues though: the great events from 500 pages of the book being diluted into 10 episodes (in the book Tyron's speech at the trial and Oberyn vs the Mountain occured in the same chapter), the filler rescue arc of Theon leading to nothing, the Battle of the Wall black and white than in the books, no Lady Stoneheart...
@@Shonras Already in season 2 there were issues, like when they decided to scrap Varys' true motivations or when the entirety of Robb's bannermen just dissapeared
@@Shonras The show and the book cannot possibly be 1 to 1. That doesn’t necessarily make it an issue just because its different from the book
@@Redplane70 Yes, as much as I don't like when people complain about the slightest change in an adaptation, D&D were not good at it from the beginning, it just became more obvious when they ran out of source material.
Chaos is a ladder
Stannis is still alive in the books and isn’t nearly as fanatical nor dumb. It was clear from season 2 that D&D hated Stannis and wanted to undercut his character.
Uh, Stannis the Mannis has several of the greatest lines in the show. Everyone loves TV Stannis. I don't think D&D hated the character. I think you just don't believe Stannis would ever sacrifice Shireen for black magic. You're gonna be pissed if Winds ever comes out, my friend.
If they did like Stannis, they lost interest in him after Blackwater.
After that they make Davos the focus of the Stannis story line.
@@ginao6810 I agree with you, but Martin does the same thing.
good to know there are fellow Stannismen here. Long Live the One True King!
I still think he could die in a Dumb way
Like after the Battle maybe he gets kill by an Arrow or Spear
Or even from a White Walker from the North, that would make sense
14;54 the Barristan actor complained about being killed off during the dragon pit scene, because his character becomes a POV character in the latter books, D&D didn't like how much he understood about the books and the character and decided to kill him off in the dragonpit, then he complained so they killed him off even earlier in that hallway fight. For that is how petty D&D are.
And how do you know this?
@@MrFartyman44 It is known
@@MrFartyman44Dumb and Dumber said it themselves
@@rogierb5945indeed a man knows.
@@MrFartyman44 interviews, insider leaks and fire cannot kill a dragon.
the dorne-ark felt so silly. Like a sitcom. The only thing missing was the bad laughter in the background
Arc
@@patrickbateman312you know what they mean tho so it doesn't matter.
@@luvoi *though
@@patrickbateman312 pointless correction yet again. tho is correct.
@@luvoi it is not.
Game of thrones died with tywin lannister
Season 5 and 6 had its moments because there was still some GRRM writing they could take inspiration of, like Battle of the Bastards(not that its actually based off the books), Hardhome, or the episode Jon becomes king in the norf with the Arthur Dayne/Ned/Lyanna flashbacks(the flashback is based on the books which is why its so cool), but yeah the level of writing dropped drastically even when they knew partly where GRRM was going with some of the plot
@@Ar1AnX1x let's be honest... Season 1-4 are pretty good seasons overall. Like pretty much all episodes have something to bring to the table and allows for a development of several plotlines at once. Season 2 is a very good example of this.
Season 5 is not un-eventful, but at the same time events happening aren't nearly as impacting as in the earlier seasons. Season 6 is pretty much the same thing : up until episodes 8-10, season 6 is a litteral snooze fest. I guess this is where D&D decided they needed to do shorter seasons cause they clearly couldn't flesh out episodes the way they used to do it when they still had books to (loosely) adapt.
Yeah and it didn’t have to. These writers just didn’t know what they were doing. Operating within budget constraints does make it impossible to copy a book perfectly. They just didn’t know how to do it as the show progressed.
@@MP-et1eu yup, that's the sad part. The reason why they couldn't fill those episodes up was not because of real budget constraints, you see money being thrown around at every corner in season 5 and 6 (especially in the last 3 apisodes). They just didn't know how to fill them up, simply because adapting a book where there is too much to make fit into a TV show, and you have to select which part go and which don't, and how you mka ehtem work together is one thing, but only having the main plot line and then having to create all the actuall stuff that makes a good book to put in a TV show,... well that's another story. The thing that makes me mad is that it's not that the show got bad the moment that didn't have books any more... Season 5 is taking place during the 5th book. They DID have a book to adapt, plotlines to follow and they simply didn't and made their own thing. Making Sansa marry Ramsey (when in the books it's Jeyne Poole, daughter of Ned Stark's Steward that was captured in the first book that is being sold to the Boltons as a fake Arya Stark), killing Barristan off (while in the books he becomes king of Meereen after Dany took her first dragon flight). And let's not talk about Dorne, which is legitimately one of the most interesting plot of book 4 and 5.
Like they had a great book in their hands, and decided to make a very mid story instead. Still baffles me to this day.
@@Ar1AnX1x Yes I never said that S6 and S5 were 100% as bad as S7 and 8. They are still kinda enjoyable for the most part (with a lot of writing problems still) but they still had 10 episodes which gave room to smaller stories, secondary characters ect that would be completely erased in S7 & 8
Another thing about Loras's trial: SQUIRES SEE THEIR KNIGHTS NAKED LIKE, ALL THE TIME. It's literally their job. They're dressing and armouring them on a daily basis.
The idea he's seen Loras's birthmark is just... facile.
Season 1-4: Peak Television
Season 5: Beginning of devoid of logic
Season 6: More devoid of logic
Season 7: More devoid of logic
Season 8: Do I even need to explain?
The Sansa rape was a “beginning” to you?
Meh, Season 6 is still really good, the real shit starts with Season 7.
@@x_.suzaku._x Bs, s6 is filled with bad writing, its just not that visible in comparison to 7&8
It started as soon as D&D got further and further away from the original material. So season 5
Most of it was Good.
They actually wrote a good arc for brienne and just ignored it. She literally was so focused on her revenge on stannis that she missed Sansa lighting the candle. Which was stupid but anyway. She then goes on to kill stannis and save Sansa and pay no price for worrying about her revenge more than her duty. Before she kills stannis he says “do your duty”. I couldn’t believe at that moment they didn’t realize that brienne needed to hear that and realize her true duty was to Sansa and not revenge. It was just so basic and obvious but they chose to just have her get revenge and then save Sansa anyway.
They didn’t run out of books when making season 5. They consciously abandoned the published books to make their jobs easier.
You are actually partly correct. I think Martin got a little lazy with all the fame of moviedom. He realized how much easier it was to make a buck through visual storytelling than writing ten thousand page books. That said, we can't completely rule out Martin getting frustrated with D&D's handling of his source material. As he sees the show blatantly retconning major story elements. And as he saw how much impact the show actually had on the public. It's possible Martin was afraid he would have to direct his writing towards two split fanbases, which would obviously not work too well.
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Not saying he was in the right. Just tossing out a possible explanation.
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It's a clearly complicated situation. But we can factually say that D&D butchered the story, and Martin stopped writing books. Those two statements are both true.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 - The issue is that D&D could have gotten an entire TV season out of the Dornish book plot (instead of just giving us Oberyn, and then a lame mini-quest involving a Jaime/Bronn buddy cops comedy), and another season out of the Greyjoys book plots (instead of merging Euron & Victarion, and turning the resulting Frankenstein monster into a lame Cersei simp).
The Daenerys Meereen story was also much longer & interesting in the books, but D&D wanted Danny & Jon to meet up ASAP so they merged her story with Young Griff, pulled a "have Hizdarh get murked, have Dany give Mereen to Daario, then easily unite all the Dothraki tribes, gave her Young Griff's story, meet Tyrion and cross the narrow sea"
Sure, sooner or later they would have ran out of books, but it would have given us at least 6 or 7 faithful seasons of great TV instead of only 4, followed by 4 seasons of pure slop.
Then when they *did* run out of books?
Well, I honestly don't know, but even making a full stop would have been better than whatever season 8 was.
Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but I'll never accept the excuse of "D&D ran out of books, they didn't have a choice" since it's a straight up lie, and 6 great seasons followed by 2 seasons of slop would have been better than a 4/4 divide quality wise.
@@randallflagg3700 It is wild to suggest they make an entire season out of a plotline from the book that objectively doesnt go anywhere and even a lot of book fans dont like. Same but slightly less for Mereen, doesnt go anywhere while we wait for major characters to arrive. That just isnt how tv works. You're talking about long segments of unpopular tv without the main characters. No peter Dinklage etc, for years, so that actor is never coming back, so many reasons this is a bad idea. The show would just be wildly unpopular and then cancelled, so might as well just end it poorly at that point.
@@Luminousreign - wait, which plotline are you talking about, with the whole "fans of the books don't like"?
Because the Greyjoys and the Dornish plots are some of the favorites in the ASOIAF fandom, from waaaay before their pathetic substitutes appeared in the corpse of the show...
There's a reason why fans of the book were so sad about the GoT portrayal of Euron Crow's Eye, and the infamously pathetic Kingsmoot.
(for what it's worth, I was a fan of GRRM and ASOIAF before season 1 of the show aired, so I'm well aware of what was popular and what wasn't in the fandom)
And about Peter Dinklage, he's a pretty big part of both Griff & Young Griff stories, + Jorah Mormont of course, so he would still be around.
Just keep Illyrio Mopatis around like in the book (instead of just putting Lord Varys in his place), and you get a fantastic sparring partner for he and his wits.
I'm talking about wildly popular book plotlines, and with the right castings fans of the show would have been balls deep into that stuff.
Just look at *House of the Dragon* , now a bunch of new actors are total fan favorites, all of them are 100% new, and none of them are Peter Dinklage.
Speaking of, show-wise Tyrion peaked in season 4 anyway, and D&D's decision of not having Jaime's confession follow his little brother's escape removed a lot of our favorite dwarf's motivations for the future of the story.
Terrible decision.
#JusticeForTysha
Anyway, with the right casting, I maintain that the ratio of bad/good seasons could have been changed from 50/50 to 80/20 in favor of quality seasons, which is far from negligible.
ps: I'm not a huge fan of the Meereen plot, even if it has its charms politics wise, as it reminds me of early GoT King's Landing's scheming....
They could have still done much better than the speedrun we got in the show.
If we really wanted a perfect show or near perfect show then GRRM should have finished the damn books first or at the very least finished winds of winter so it could give the writers of the show a better understanding/purpose for all the new storylines introduced in books 4&5.
If Winds of Winter had been released before season 1 started production I don’t think they fuck up Stannis, Euron Greyjoy, The Martells, Barriston Selmy, they don’t cut out Jon Connington/Faegon. We’d have a better understanding of Bran’s story arc so he doesn’t become a pointless character. I could go on and on. Instead a 10-12 season masterpiece turned into a 7.5 season shit show of disappointment.
D&D deserve blame for letting there big egos get in the way, HBO deserve blame for putting to much trust in them, but GRRM should have finished the books, that’s what most obvious in hindsight.
"You don't understand Littlefinger's motivation until you get to the end of the scene and realize that Littlefinger's motivation is his....motivation for what he wants to do"
These guys truly earned their nicknames of Dumb and Dumber
I am SO glad someone made this video. I'm tired of people talking about "season 8 is where GoT went downhill." No... it was way before that. In my humble opinion, GoT went downhill the moment Tyrions trial ended and he left king's landing. Not saying anything about the scene itself, just that that marked the end of sensible storywriting. If we really dug, we could find early signs even before that. But Tywin's death, and Tyrion fleeing king's landing was really the true beginning of the end in my book.
Agreed. Once he came to Essos and threw up it started to fall
The show could have ended at Season 4 and it would be remembered fondly
Yea logic left Kings Landing as well
@@jimmyneutron3282 yea, it was straight downhill for every single storyline starting season 5.
I think it started with shirtless Ramsey.
Somehow Asha teleported to the other side of Westeros with a ship, what apparently can walk on land to the Dreadfort, assaulted the seat of House Bolton with a small squad and somehow knew that Reek was kept with in the dogpen. And then Ramsey comes out without a shirt, because the lump of fat sadistic asshole from the books will surely be brave enough to go balls in. I would expect this from a mental fucking Umber or a Karstark, not from Ramsey.
I always think it's funny when people go "Oh, Game of Thrones was really good *except* for the ending"
Brah, it was an accelerating downward spiral from the beginning of the 2nd half.
Arya in the brothel hawking oysters is basically the equivalent of a hotdog man at a ball game just kicking the door in and yelling HOTDOGS GET YA HOTDOGS HERE!! While youre midthrust
I mean, the girls at the Happy Port are her customers.
I have to disagree. Oysters are a known aphrodisiac. It’s not like she’s is still yelling that she has oysters.
I’d equate it more to the hot dog guy going into a sports bar and going to the counter to try to sell them to the establishment. Hot dogs are sports foods and people who see this guy walking around with something that fits their situation, would possibly buy them
Bwahahaha
GET YER SAUSAGE WHILE SHE'S TAKIN YOUR SAUSAGE
20:32 The Dorne plotline completely melted his brain to the point that he mixed up Elia and Ellaria
13:35 is in the books actually. Melisandre says "you know nothing Jon Snow" to him at the end of a chapter in Dance with Dragons, it wasn't invented by Dave and Dan. The implication isn't necessarily that she can talk to the dead, more that she can see his deepest desires and memories.
the problem is d&d didn't know what to do if this
@@0cidd0 The thing is, magic in Game of Thrones is supposed to be ambiguous so I don't think even George would ever want to fully explain it. So I give this part of pass. With that said, I still think Season 5 sucks, so I'm not arguing with that lol
I remember seething with rage at Melisandre in that moment. I don't remember Jon's reaction after that. I figured Jon's reaction would also be rage, but with more grief leaving him stunned.
@@nebuloushammer8773 It doesn't really explore his reaction because the chapter ends, but I always thought it was a super cool way to close the chapter. It actually gave me shivers. R'hollor knows some shit haha
Yeah the point of the line is pretty obvious tbh. Melisandre proving to Jon that her visions in the flame are real by knowing something she shouldn't possibly know.
There are only 4 seasons of GoT.
based
The acting performances are so phenomenal that it masks a lot of writing problems in the show.
However, by the end, there was no hiding or distracting from it.
Actually I think it's the other way around. The better acting is, the more visible it is how bad the writing is. My favorte example from GOT would be probably Margaery line to the High Sparrow about Cersei "not meaning to suffer consequences of her action". Natalie Dormer does her best to deliver that line but it only makes it funnier how illogical the sentence she said actually is. To the point when I heard it originally I assumed she got the line wrong, but they decided to use this take anyway because it was a good take.
And apart from that, Daenerys. Emilia Clarke's acting got worse and worse with her character becoming supposedly more powerful. She was good when she played the powerless Daenerys finding her own way, but when Daenerys was supposed to become this calculating leader about to conquer the world, Emilia Clarke unfortunately couldn't pull it off at all.
The gradual shrinking of the once-expansive Realm was a real shame. It took a MONTH or two to go from Kingslanding to Winterfell, and from Winterfell to the Wall. But by the end of things, the quick-traveling was out of control. It really felt like the time it would take for journeys like those were reduced to a manner of days.
Everything was going by so fast. The realm felt so grand in the former seasons.
@@ambre4144 Yeah... Being the Warden of the North, South, East, or West was SUCH a big deal because of all the territory and households that came with it. Eventually, it was as if being Warden meant being the Mayor of some smalltown with like one or two other important families in it. If we got lucky. The show’s settings pretty much jumped from sprawling city to backwoods, bumf*ck nowhere. There was no middle ground. It would’ve been nice to see other location types and meet other households.
@@KindredKeepsake exactly. I feel the same way.
Just by hearing the "but you need da bad pussay" line, I knew this show was doomed to fail.
On the other hand, Sam the Slayer became Sam the Pussy Slayer...
Bronn's face 😂 That was Jerome non verbally signalling to us his panic at what was happening to the writing.
The sand snakes were the most pointless characters with the dumbest writing. I agree, and would argue the "bad poosy" line was the worst in the entire series.
It only failed to live up to your expectations. HBO didn't think it failed.
For me, it was "The dwarf lives, until we find a cock merchant"
Season 5, I saw the signs.
Season 6, I was resigned.
Season 7; what the fuck!?
Season 8. Man that shit sucked.
people of Dorn just accepting Oberyn's girlfriend as their new ruler makes zero sense, specially since they liked Doran, they'd accept Oberyn as a replacement but not her
There's no one else left? 😅 They cut the rest of Doran's children and in the books, pretty much everyone wants war with Lannisters except for Doran and surprise surprise, Ellaria, who vehemently oppose any actions against the Lannisters.
@@nunyabiznes33 Yes there should be someone left. Even if Doran lost all his children, it wont compromise the line of succession. Kings die all the time historically without heirs. Doran would likely have nephews or uncles who then would be next in line, and if by some small chance he has none, then some distant cousin would have the rightful claim. Literally anyone except some dumb mistress would have become king. The show treats the setting as if only the named characters are relevant and everything else is void. It makes the world feel small. Cercei also should not have inherited the throne, it would have immediately passed to some Baratheon lord that could even remotely prove he has the slightest family connection to Robert, not his widow wife.
I’m guessing being the mother of the kings nieces and the fact they follow her is why. They technically would be where the succession went to with what characters we are given knowledge of
@@robbiewira5344 The problem isn't really that she's an unreasonable successor.
The problem imo is that we didn't see any of the process, which is part of the bigger "they forgot about dorne" problem.
We got to see the iron islands choose their king.
We got to see the seven kingdoms choose their king at the end.
In both cases, it was nonsensical bullshit, but at least we're not left wondering "how the hell did Euron become king???".
Sansa's arc in season 5 was the first time that I noticed that the show was going downhill, personally. It's clear D&D wanted to have Theon's arc turn out the same was in the books but didn't want to reintroduce Jeyne Poole, so they just gave that role to Sansa and it didn't work at all.
As for Barristan, I actually don't mind the idea of them killing off Barristan at all in theory. My problem with it is that Barristan was necessary as a character to have the Meereen plot happen as it did in the books.
Barristan is a knight, not a politician. So he is easily manipulated and under his leadership Meereen starts to fall apart. But in season 6 of "Game of Thrones" they instead put Tyrion at the helm of Meereen. Tyrion is meant to be a genius politician, yet Meereen still falls apart and ends up at war. This does not work.
Politically inexperienced knight in charge -> Meereen falls apart? Yes.
Politically experience genius Tyrion in charge -> Meereen falls apart? No.
Also if Stannis is supposed to be king and continue his family’s line, wouldn’t killing his only surviving heir defeat the whole purpose of that since she won’t be able to continue the line? They really did stannis dirty
In Westeros women don't continue their father's line (yes, yes, Daenerys, I know) but normally marry into a different house. Shireen's greyscale damages her marriage prospects significantly.
@@Mathemagical55 she is still his only heir.
Being the heir to the iron throne at worst it would be like rhenyra where her first born son is a stag rest are his @@Mathemagical55
@@Mathemagical55 Still a princess and her husband would be king. And aside from the non harmful greyscale she is pretty. She also has great personality. Im betting all my money that most lords would fall to her feet the second her hand would be "offered".
Was there a reason why Stannis couldn't produce more heirs if he had survived?
so basically the show was almost a complete nonsense after season 4 ,but people thought it was good because of those first 4 seasons....
yes, but it held itself together and had some highs. The spectacle kept it up and made normies watch it. But the show basically became a meme of itself. "no one is safe, your main character might DIE!!!. LOOOOOKKK, SEX. THEY ARE HAVING SEX. HAHAHAHAHA HE SAID A COCK JOKE, I LOVE COCK JOKES. omg THE DRAGONS ARE KILLING EVERYTHING>>>>>. WOW LOOK AT THIS INSANE ACTION battle sequence"
Thats what the show became and thats what normies who arent used to watching deep, dialogue paced dramas got attached too. S5 you have to pay deep attention for its flaws to pop out. But S6 is when it became pretty obvious when we started seeing jokes that belonged in a marvel movie happening in the first episode. It got really redundant there but again, it held itself up with spectacle and pushing the most favorite, simple and easy to digest characters to the front and kicking dialogue heavy methodical characters out. Suddenly dany, john, and cersie, were the main characters. Everyone else was a side character. And ariya became that cool edgy badass side character that everyone likes but doesnt overstay her welcome. S7 was great because we all WANTED these main characters to go at it, and johns targaryan ancestry to be told to him. THe nightking shit and also dany coming to westeros for the first time and cersie being threatened. These tiny threads held it together until the abomination that was S8 that just lit the last but of threads on fire. At that point it got so stupid, stupid people felt like was making fun of them.
For those who'd already read the books, complications in writing choices and the ill-planned diversions in narrative were immediately apparent. From turning Dany's first sexual encounter with Drogo essentially into a rape scene (Jamie and Cersei too that one time) to magnifying the subtleties of the novels. For example, on my first reading, I never picked up that Loras and Renly were gey for each other, nor did I pick up that Reek was less of a man than Theon Greyjoy had been. But the show made sure to literally jiggle their sausages in our faces. Idk, Seasons 1-4 were all great television, but GoT was always a poor substitute for the Song of Ice and Fire novels.
@@Megacliff , that last sentence summarises it well. Seasons 1-4 are definitely outstanding television, some of the best in the 2010s but it is inferior to the books in many ways. There are aspects of it I prefer (such as Margery and Olenna’s increasing roles) but at the end of the day, the true experience of A Song of Ice and Fire is in the books.
Cersei was not lying to Cat about the first child dying: she repeats the same story with Robert in S1 (the one where they discuss their marriage and hate for one another), so that cannot be a lie.
Also considering she lost the baby and it was their first and after that she had Jamie's kids. I think the prophecy still works.
The thing that doesn't work for me is cersei getting called Lorraine on their wedding night and from there she then chose to make the seed go elsewhere.
So either she got pregnant that night with Roberts kid or had a change of heart for one night.
@@courtneycherry5582still doesnt work.
@@maximum9977yes it does, it just shows how no matter what Cersei does she can’t escape her destiny. She is bound to only have 3 children, not 4, not 5, if she were to try, the babies who aren’t those 3 will die in the womb or at birth. Cersei isn’t infertile, she can have children so obviously she would fall pregnant multiple times, but if the babies aren’t Jamie’s or one of the 3 then they simply aren’t supposed to exist.
Cersei aborted the baby in the books.
The prophecy doesn't work in the show.
@HouseTargaryen24601 well the question was children not babies or infants so it doesn't bother me that he wasn't counted. They never even mentioned him having a name.
Cercei 100% did not lie to Catelyn about her first baby, she brought it up later with Robert too. DnD just forgot
The greatest twist of Game of thrones is the reveal of David and Dan being Dumb and Dumber
If they burn Shireen in the books, it's probably just gonna be by Melissandre herself with support of the fanatics. Jon sent away Maester Aemon and Mance's baby, leaving no other suitable sacrifice.
I think its not impossible Stannis does that in the books. But he will probably have a much better reason to do that. Maybe it will be related to save humanity from The Others, protect the Wall or maybe Melissandre will convince him that its the only way to bring Jon back (Obviously after telling him he is the key to stop The Others).
But why would Mel think they need to burn Shireen to bring Jon back? I know they say death pays for life, but that was never the case with Thoros and Beric.
How would Mance’s baby be a sacrifice? It’s based on Targaryen heritage. The baratheons are a branch family of targaryens.
@@anon2427 he's royal child. Melissandre needs to burn royal child, not Targaryen (at least in books).
@@fabriciorosso9807 But that's literally the reason why he does that in the show. He believes that he has to stop the white walkers, the true enemy. If he dies, the world is doomed. Stannis is a logical and practical man. He understands the logic and sees no choice. Of course the issue is that its not very well explained, partly because Stannis never talks how he feels about things.
I had a friend who passed at peak COVID-19. We watched some Game of Thrones together and she died right around as she watched 5th season's 2nd episode. I'm devastated that I lost a close friend but glad that she didn't get to watch her favorite show get obliterated into the ground.
Rest in peace, Agnes.
This comment is messed up lol
I suppose there's worse fates. RIP your friend, unless this is a joke, in which case, she might come back as a White Walker...
Cursed comment
@@lolilol5346 LMAO I'm laughing so hard wtf was this comment?
RIP Agnes
Another issue with Barristan compared to Grey Worm is that Barristan is trained to fight alone and as a bodyguard, he is hyper-alert and aware of his surroundings and potential threats. The idea that he would be trapped in such a situation is highly dubious, but if anyone has the credentials to get out, it would be him. ITB, when the Mad King was taken hostage in the town of Duskendale, Barristan went in alone, while the town was besieged by the Hand, Tywin Lannister, made his way through the town, into the castle, rescued the king and fought their way to freedom. This is a town on a war-time footing, on high alert, guarding an extremely valuable hostage. Yes, it's improbable for Barristan to escape his death scenario, but if anyone can do it, it would be him.
Meanwhile, Grey Worm and the Unsullied are NOT warriors, they are soldiers, trained to fight in disciplined formations. They are trained with an emphasis in group-combat, relying on large numbers acting in perfect coordination, not on brilliant moves and tricks. They are repeatedly contrasted with the knights of Westeros. The knights are brave, the Unsullied are disciplined. The knights are skilled, the Unsullied are coordinated. The knights have strength, the Unsullied have endurance. Knights are an irresistible force, Unsullied are an immovable object. Knights are members of the elite class, whose lives are the most valuable in their culture (and thus, are trained to survive) while the Unsullied are slaves, who have no individual value (and thus, their lives are resources to be expended).
TL;DR - their backgrounds and history and training mean Barristan is the one who should be walking away from an ambush like the masked goons, not Gray Worm.
Dumb and Dumber are too stupid to comprehend this, didn't you know?
"A Feast for Crows ? Never heard of it"
- D&D while writing season 5
Yeah they probably skipped every major plotpoint except for some of cerseis from that book.
@@ottolindfors tbh Cersei is the only part they even read a bit of, even then they forgot the kings guards, her assassination/hits etc
One little thing I wanted to point out. I have my brightness completely up and I STILL can’t see the clips from s8, it’s complete black except for their faces and torches it’s painful.
1. At that point, Ser Barristan should have practically lived in his plate armor like in the books.
2. In a narrow corridor, there are only so many dudes that can fight you at a time
3. the Sons of the Harpy were basically soft rich kids without training, wearing cloth and vision impairing masks whilst wielding daggers .
Barristan should have dogwalked those fools.
I guess such things come from the common misconception that knights werent really good fighters compared to for exmple Samurai. Reality is that your average Knight in plate or chainmail is basicly a walking killing machine. The amount of training and actual battlefield experience that these men had would make them able to kill a dozen of the sons of Harpy without any serious injuries.
Contray to common belive medival armour is almost impossible to penetrate and the "weak spots" ( parts of your body that arent covered ) are common knowledge for a knight. So the dagger in the neck will not happen since he will allways look out for such foolish attempts and would punish them accordingly.
Its really sad because even though its a fantasy show I thought the protayal of Jorah in earlier seasons showed that at least someone there knew what a knight and his equitment are capable of. But I guess they had to show how much cooler a dude who dosent even wear armour is ( Syrio Forell ). He may be a excellent fencer but that wouldnt help him in any real battle when he is only wearing his pijama
Are all the sons of the Harpy rich kids without training? The rich people in Mereen probably had guards who were trained fighters. If some of them stayed loyal to their masters and joined the sons of the Harpy their ranks would include some competent fighters who might be a danger for Barristan in a four or five on one fight.
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 I doubt that a bodyguard could stand a chance against a professional killer. And even then they are still only armed with daggers and wear zero armour.
No better way to get your stomach opened
@@sarstenstahlsarsten6577 One bodyguard couldn't, several might have a chance. The effectiveness of armour however is an issue through the entire show. Sometimes it is really helpful, on other occasions people are stabbed through armour.
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 And that is pretty emberassing. I challenge anyone to try and penetrate a authentic plate armour using any weapon of the time period.
Idk if you bet me 100.000 that you could do it, I would just laugh and book a nice vacation in asia.
Season 5 was the beginning of the end. It’s literally just a build up to Season 6, whom is celebrated only because it has sone “cool” scenes that gives payoff to some major multi seasons arc. You could considere the 2 one long season. The problem was that after those payoff there was nothing more to work with. And then seasons 7-8 came…
Why doesn't anyone talk about how stupid and unrealistic is was for Sansa to live with the Boltons who murdered her brother and mother.
what was she supposed to do
@@Aryandahiya69Say no to Littlefinger
Littlefinger selling her to Ramsay already made no sense. He would have never done that (as was also said by GRRM).
@@Aryandahiya69 Literally anything else, imagine if someone murdered your family, would you go and marry his son?
@@4Shaman She shoulda gone back to the Vale and chilled they were nice to her there
Thank God Tywin died before the writing did. He would have gotten a lobotomy like Tyrion did.
Tywin in season 8: "I never cared much for the Lannister name or power, you know..."
I feel like D&D were like "hey, merging Gendry and Edric Storm worked out. Let's put Sansa in the Jeyne Poole plot!" Except changing that one thing (Ramsay marries the real Sansa instead of fake Arya) turns a bunch of different plots upside down. The ruining of Littlefinger that you mentioned is a big part, but then also it changes the loyalty of the Boltons!! The whole point of doing this in the book was that the Lannisters were trying to cement the claim of the Boltons (their ally) in the North by supposedly giving them a Stark. But in the show, this means that Roose has openly rebelled /against/ the Lannisters. Absolute chaos. Same thing with Jon's real name being Aegon. Just smashing together Aegon/Young Griff's story with Jon's since they knew they weren't going to pull Aegon into the show.
Another question I would really like to have an answer for is how Dany's advisors escaped the fighting pit after Dany fand Drogon flew away.
this! i remember them being outnumbered. the sons of the harpy would’ve either killed them or imprisoned them, that was the logic in the earlier seasons
When it comes to the Hardhome white walker fight scene, the Thenn was pretty much just a random for the white walker, but Jon Snow was very influential person and the white walker most likely knew that, due to the Night King's powers. So my guess is that it wanted to toy with Jon, before killing him.
As for Stannis, the problem was that the actor of Stannis wanted to leave the show, this sadly is a huge issue in TV shows that movies or books don't have to worry about. Same thing happened with Andrea in The Walking Dead too. In the comics she survived way longer, but in the TV show, the actress wanted out, so her character was killed.
All this can be answered with D&D refusing to adapt books 4 and 5 (AFFC and ADWD). For example, Illyrio is cut because Young Giff/Jon Connington is cut, so the whole plot doesn't go anywhere.
Stannis's downfall along with Littlefinger, Tyrion and Varys dumbing down were the biggest declines in the show, even above The Mad Queen turn.
The first cracks in the show appeared in season 4 with the Theon rescue attempt arc, when Asha and the best killers on the iron islands ran away from a shirtless Ramsey and some dogs
Shirtless ramsay was the best fighter in the show
@@barksdalebell000😂
They were inside an enemy castle with reinforcements on the way. If they didn't run, they would have died...
@@Beltims Not to mention, pissed off guard dogs aren't gonna br a fun time. Even if you're one of the best warriors lol
is true season 4 had those red flags
So happy to have this notifcation THANK YOU! And congrats on your engagement!
Was there a character with more wasted potential than Stannis? Such a complex character, whose morality or lack their of, is often thrown to the wayside.
The bit at the start of people saying Cersei was lying about her first child, yet she mentions it to Robert during their conversation and he recalls the pregnancy too
People who get mad when you say there are issues with Season 5 absolutely blow my mind. That was the season where I started to see the cracks in the show right away. Dorne alone was the big red flag that things were going downhill.
Especially the contrast to the best season, which was the previous one. I hoped at that time that this was just a bad phase and it would get better after.
Season 5 caused me to start reading the books, because it suddenly was so much worse than the other seasons and people told me everything was different from the books. So I read them and I loved how the books became BETTER after season 4/book 3, instead of worse like the show.
@@frankvandorp2059 Definitely. The Dorne Plotline in Feast for Crows is one of my favorites in the books, especially the plot twist about Doran's intentions. Really blows the mind how they didn't use it.
So little finger can't just let Breann go because if she told someone else he had Sansa then he'd be screwed.
Arya waiting at the house of black and white wasn't a day, it is implied that it is over multiple days she waits.
She wouldnt be telling people since Cersei wants her dead for Joffrey's murder. And Ary waiting 1 day vs a few days, does it really matter?
regarding the North thing: CAN WE REMEMBER MOAT CAILIN. There's a whole ass scene about Theon retaking the place for the Boltons but from there on its never cited as an obstacle again
Then Brienne just somehow goes around it in Season 5 🤦♀️
This is where the show jumped the freaking shark. Also if you watch the Dragon Demands, he explains that D&D wrote specifically to showcase their favorite actors, and they killed off the characters of actors they didn’t like. They didn’t like Barristan’s actor, so they killed off his character because he told them that the season 5 plot wasn’t following the books. Every plot was written to try and showcase the actors they like most and try to get them Emmy’s. It’s even worse than what you theorized. They literally admitted they only added Dorne last minute because they were fan boys of Rome and wanted to give the actress playing Oberyn’s GF a bigger role. Plus they hated dialogue and wanted to convey the characters feelings and motivation through them emoting their faces. The even admit the only reason they married Sansa off to Ramsey was so that they could get Sophie Turner an Emmy for her performance when being SA by Ramsey. Season 5 is also the season that GRRM was gone. D&D and Martin had a falling out during season 4 when they revealed to Martin despite promising him that they would faithfully adapt the story, they decided to rush the story and only do 7 seasons. Season 7 and 8 were supposed to be one season. But they broke it into two because HBO begged them to more seasons. HBO also offered them 12-13 seasons and they refused.
Kill Bronn in the fifth season (or in future seasons) would have been much better to show how the greed of a mercenary can lead him to extremely dangerous situations with the obvious reward of death. However, they decided to make someone who is one of the worst characters morally speaking the lord of Highgarden just because... he's likable?
Bro they made the guy who doesnt know how to borrow money the master of coin lmao
@@mattdragon1253 Bronn kind of forgot about interest rates and debt collection
I feel like Lancel Lannister is still mentioned several times in the books.... battle injury, festering wounds, hair turned white, then religious conversion. It's easy to dismiss when you're reading, bc there's so many characters, but I recall Cersei "regretting" it (over solo wine, presumably)
I must admit am still confused how are the high sparrow keeping the Tyrell’s and the Lannisters prisoners. The westerlands and the reach is huge their armies are huge. Do the sparrows have a larger army more men? Are they threatening their banner men?
The sparrows have religious authority and the authority of the lords comes from religion, and so the vast armies of the Westerlands and the Reach will defect if the sparrows declare that opposing them is heretical.
They are hold up underneath a religious building. A) storming it with soldiers would look really bad and B) only so many people can fit in it at once. You’re 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.99 soldiers are cool and every thing but when only 40 of them can get through at once the defenders only need 41 to have an advantage.
Also you would need to free the prisoners incredibly quickly or else they’ll just kill them to prevent you from freeing them. There is a point where the tyrells are willing to raid the building and free the prisoners themselves and thus spare the Lannister’s the bad press. They go so far as the march a force up the steps before being told to stand down by the Lannister’s who were concerned that it would spark a small folk rebellion, feed the reputation that they rule through fear and force alone, and were concerned that the prisoners would just be executed. So instead they try to negotiate and play along in the hopes of getting their people back safely.
They have the smallfolk you know
They can use human shields lmao
@@curtiswong7280 Since when the authority of a lord is related to religion in GoT?
@@E_D___ Since always, even knights are appointed into their positions through an oath alluding to the authority of the Seven
I didn't watch GOT until 2022, which was after its initial run on HBO, obviously. So, I had the good fortune to just binge watch the entire show. Going from Season 4, which I absolutely loved(!) to Season 5 within minutes of each other, the difference was palpable! You could pinpoint the exact moment where Dave and Dan ran out of book material. Or, to put it differently, where the book material they decided to adapt ended and where they had to come up with plot and dialogue completely on their own. And it progressively got worse the longer it went on until Season 8 made me question my life choices at the end.
I read the ASOIAF books some time later, and seeing the plot threads that GRRM began in AFFC and ADWD - the latter of which was published when the GOT show began airing - it's frustrating to see what Dave and Dan chose not to adapt. I'm convinced if they included Grif and Young Grif, the later seasons would have been amazing, making the struggle for the throne much more interesting. If Jon, after becoming Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, acted more like his book counterpart, being more cunning and even duplicitous to some of his friends like Sam, it would have been more interesting. Sansa was done dirty by Dave and Dan, seeing where she is in the show compared to where she is in the book. Littlefinger is basically Emperor Palpatine in the book, but he's a literal moron in the show once Season 5 starts. Don't even get me started with how Stannis the Mannis was butchered in the show versus his book counterpart. Excluding Lady Stonehart, who appeared in ASOS, was also a mistake.
There's so much more to say, but some points mostly pertain to later seasons of the GOT show. George really should have been more involved than he was in the later seasons.
Elia Martell was Raeghar Targaryen's first wife. Elaria Sand is Oberyns consort
Yeah he knows, it was probably a typo in the script
David and dan must have forgotten to check the script for such mistakes
we need more rant like this to prevent Season 3 of HoTD from ruining itself again. my confidence in this dragon franchise was finally restored after S1, but now after s2, i start to feel the S7 & 8 vibe from GoT over again. knowing HoTD will not be finished until at least 2028, it's a huge emotional investment. i just do not want to experience the "trauma" again.
the directors need to understand every plot gotta carry meanings and has actual profound impact to the storyline. otherwise, no matter how big scene is, it just does not matter.
Garak must be so disappointed that Dr. Bashir learned nothing from their lunchtime conversations.
haha
I have face blindness. When Lancel Lanester came back as a diciple, I had NO idea it was the same person unitl this video. I probably missed his name being dropped at some point but damn.
Oh god…I really hated the sand snakes arc
What, you dont like bad poosy?
she spins because it's a good trick
When D&D shot past the source material, they were completely exposed as untalented hacks with no knowledge or understanding of the fantasy genre. George deserves a huge part of the blame for all this.
So does HBO, in one of their interviews D&D admitted they didn't know what they were doing... and HBO was fine with that.
even before they shot past the source material they were exposed. they didn’t even really technically adapt books 4 and 5 when you think about it
Selling oysters at the brothel makes sense, though. They have a reputation of being aphrodisiacs (they're not but Big Oyster doesn't want you to know that)
And also culturally they seem to be very focused on seafood, so what may seem unappetising to others is very normal to them
for what it's worth, one of the 4 non-negotiables that GRRM gave to Benioff and Weiss was that Stannis sacrifices Shireen to the Lord of Light. I definitely think that the execution was mishandled though... Like, he got VERRRRY little for that HUGE sacrifice.
He burns his daughter alive because the weather was bad and Ramsay (probably shirtless) and 20 “good men” somehow burn down most of his camp undetected. It’s insane, I can’t imagine how they thought that was enough motivation
The writing of the series and the books is day and night. Where the producers of Game of Thrones were applying plot armor, Brienne the Magic Teleporter, and Dorne suffering from "this is clearly a small filming set" syndrome, George Martin was making everyone around Mereen dying of literally diarrhea, and explaining how such an epidemic could wipe an army faster than a dragon.
Martin's realism doesn't change and neither he suffers from lazy writing, even after all these years he's taking with the books. In the TV series, Drogo dies from an infected wound, then in the last seasons, the protagonists are superheroes who can survive Fast and Furious like stunts. In the books, Drogo dies from and infected wound, and in the last book, Victarion is also completely fucked up from an infected wound. Martin stays consistent, and he knows very well when to use fantasy and when to use nature as a real threat.
I know this is a late comment but you are absolutely correct that Dorne suffered from "this is clearly a small filming set" syndrome, just not in the usual way. Instead of building a set for the Water Gardens they filmed at the Alcázar of Seville, a gorgeous Spanish palace with magnificent Islamic architecture, which actually was an inspiration for GRRM when he was imagining Dorne. Unfortunately, because it is a protected historic site, there are tons of rules and restrictions for film crews. The fight scene was supposed to be indoors at night (which makes WAY more sense narratively) but they weren't allowed to do fight scenes indoors. The only place they were allowed to do fight scenes was an open courtyard in the gardens. The production literally had to bring in potted trees behind which they could hide the cameras. And they only had about a week at the Alcázar, including choreographing, rehearsing, and filming the fight scene (which is an insanely truncated schedule) and all the other Dorne scenes. It's not clear to me (maybe someone else knows) if they didn't know about the restrictions in advance or thought they could accomplish everything in one week. Either way, I wish they had filmed what they could at the Alcázar and then on a sound state recreated parts of it for the fight scene. That fight scene is pitiful and completely unworthy of the setting and the characters.
@@emilochka Ah, I understand a bit more then. I still think David and Dan deserve some merit because many places from the books are super diffculy to portray, like Qarth, which is enourmous in the books. I think they did a great job in bringing the books to life, but they unfortunately weren't up to the task when they ran out of source material. It's a shame they are being remembered more for the bad cliches of the two last seasons...
The switch in quality to me at least happened after Jaime and Tyrion talked in the dungeon tbh. In the books after that conversation he becomes so bitter and spiteful and it's what pushes him to go kill Tywin. In the show he and Jaime just..... Hug it out. And they make Shae attack him when he walks in so her murder would be justified and it'll be in self defense and he says he's sorry to her corpse. I was thinking "hold on are they gonna make Tyrion a good guy here?" and yeeeep. They scrubbed him of all grey morality or bad traits to make him the likeable sassy guy who's always right in the later season.
They did my boy Stannis dirty
They made two seasons out of book 3, and then crammed books 4 and 5 in one season.
The biggest book being book 4/5 too lmao (considering events from both books happen at the same time)
I'm very glad you mentioned the melting snow. Back in the day, me and the lads at Stannermen (a Facebook group dedicated to the Mannis) were baffled by the fact that Shireen's burning caused the snow to melt, and Miranda falling from the same height died instantly, but then enough snow survived to cushion Sansa and Theon. It baffled us, yes, but there was little discourse about it online among non-Stannis fans, and I'm super glad you did point out the lack of logic on that
I still remember when the first 4 episodes of S5 leaked early and after just coming off S4, I couldn't ever wait for the official S5 episodes to air. So, I watched those leaked 4 episodes and immediately knew something was off. I didn't quite have the writing "knowledge" at that time to really put my finger on it but definitely felt the show and especially characters had taken a big hit in the writing department.
Historically a lot of battles are lost due to bad weather
Just finished re-watched Season 5 this morning and the decline is very noticeable. It's where the show starts becoming something you just have on in the background.
“We reconceived the role to make it worthy of the actor’s talents” - Benioff & Weiss, episode 5.10 Blu ray commentary
“Why did we put Sansa in the Winterfell rape storyline? To see These Performances, These Faces” - episode 5.6 Blu ray commentary
Kinda gross to wanna see rape faces....
Ew what?!
@@hotchic4000 see the clips I posted
That’s creepy
Another reason why Cersei wasn't lying to Cat when she told her about her fourth child is that it would be a really hard lie to tell. The wife of a High Lord would absolutely know if the King had another trueborn child, no matter how long it lived, the ravens would have flown the moment the Queen gave birth. Either Cat knew about it but had forgotten in that moment, since it was a while ago, or she was pretending not to know because she didn't want to talk about it. There's no way Cersei would have risked such a huge lie, it would just be incredibly awkward.
Calling Ellaria Sand "Elia Martell" has the same energy as talking about Malekith while having footage of Ronan.
That just shows you how forgetful ellaria sand is as a character in the show. Even a dead character name that never got screen time is remembered more than her
@@Gamespectives I know more about the book Ellaria from just reading her wiki page than I did from watching Ellaria's entire screentime in the show.
Tywin's death marked the end of the quality of writing of the series.
This season may not be the worst of the latter end seasons, but looking back on it, it was an obvious sign of things to come in so many respects.
Just saw this on my feed, and the fact that it's 50 minutes means I already know this will be gold.
Another problem with Brienne coming upon Stannis is the Boltons should be actively looking for him. The enemy general's surrender or death was immensely important. It was usually an immediate "game over" in warfare prior to the mid 19th century. Yes they'd won, but proof Stannis was dead would take all fight out of anyone still loyal
It did seem odd that Varys takes Tyrion to illaryo’s home…but he’s not there. 🤷♀️
19:12 I thought my battery fell below 5% for a second there lol
The burning of Shireen is especially stupid within the world’s own logic because Shireen did indeed have King’s blood in her, so burning her should’ve yielded SOMETHING to help Stannis win. The fact that nothing comes from this sacrifice puts the entire faith of the Red God into question, especially when we KNOW that in this universe the Red God does exist and has shown great power before, but here, they get nothing in return for life which absolutely does not make sense given everything was followed to the letter by the Red God’s most devout followers. If the Red God hadn’t resurrected people or created shadow assassins before now, this would’ve been an interesting commentary on the consequences of blind faith, but ffs Stannis himself SAW the power of the Red God, so to get nothing in return for his only daughter makes no sense whatsoever after everything we’ve come to understand! 😆😆😆
they accidentally powered the resurrection of Jon Snow, only death can pay for life
The red god doesn't exist. Only the magic exists. And kings blood does have magically properties.
It's been a while since I watched it, but didn't the snow start melting after she was sacrificed?
@@Flutesrock8900 “Oh God… Global Warming?!?! NNNOOOOOOOOOOO-!!!”
- Super Kami Guru
@@RockySamson Hehe, but on a more relevant note: does that not invalidate your objection to the show's sacrifice of Shireen?
I'm lovin the ac soundtracks dropped here and there in the background man I know its a small detail but it really fits well here with the game of thrones world.
Lancel has an entire plotline in A Feast For Crows which shows his slowly developing commitment to the Faith.
Jamie & Bron sneaking past the guards reminded me of sneaking past the guards in ocarina of time
It has been a while, but I remember that I was feeling "meh" when season 5 aired and noticed this.
I’m currently rewatching and just hit season 5 and can massively notice a difference in quality.
It would have been more interesting and compelling, if Ramsay defeated Stannis throughout real guerilla warfare. Like blocking roads and bridges with trees, bribe scouts, lay small ambushes and so on to delay Stannis army so they suffer more attrition and losing morale before the final battle. That would have been realistic and would have shown more of Ramsays qualities.
Nah, house of 20 good men explains everything perfectly.
@@Asterix958 Of course, they got magic potion from a Gaul druid ;-)
@@Asterix958 Ramsay enabled sv_cheats 1 and disabled the AI in the console so none of Stannis’ soldiers would target him
Here’s a scenario that I believe could have fixed the burning of the princess. The stress of preparing for a battle that Stannis has little chance of winning causes him to slip into a coma. After a couple of days, Melisandre convinces his wife to allow her to burn shereen to revive him.
The burning happens, her screams stir Stannis, but he doesn’t completely wake up or understand what’s going on, and the next day he sees the remains of the fire as he’s informed of Melisandre abandoning the camp and his wife’s death
I thought it was pretty common shared belief that the show started turning to shit at season 5, not a very controversial opinion.
Bryan Cogman's justification on the Sand Snakes fight is that it was originally supposed to take place in the corridors of the palace during the night, and be a very close quarters claustrophobic thing - but they chose to film at a palace that's a major tourist site, so they couldn't film at night or inside at all. Despite this, rather than finding a new location, they opted to film in the open garden, forcing the actresses to film the fight scene when they'd only had a few days' practice to learn some basic choreography, and happening during the day meant they couldn't use stunt doubles, as well as it making no sense in universe
Overall, the only reason the Dorne stuff was in Season 5 was because Oberyn had been popular and they wanted to try and capitalise on that by adapting the Dorne portions instead of the Riverlands stuff, vastly overestimating the amount of screen time they'd be able to give it. It was added in very late, and the writing extremely rushed, which is why it's such a mess
Cersei also talks to Rob and references them losing their first boy. She was telling the truth. This is indisputable.
I started watching GoT at shortly after season 5 aired. I was kinda shocked by how different season 5 felt compared to the first four seasons. Personally, I feel that season 4 is when the series was at its strongest, so the weaknesses of season 5 are even more pronounced.
*Le gasp!* Calling out @Glidus just like that?! Thats pretty bold! XD
My theory of why Little Finger married Sansa off to the Boltons so that if they won against Stannis he would be allied with the north and if they lost he could go thank Stannis for freeing Sansa and then make allies with him, maybe I’m wrong but it’s the way I see it