$180 vs $530 Jazz Ride Cymbal | Dream Dark Matter vs Zildjian Kerope
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Two of my favorite jazz ride cymbals that are at very different price points. One is a 22" Zildjian Kerope and one is a 20" Dream Dark Matter "Flat" Ride.
0:00 Intro
0:30 About the Cymbals
2:27 Blind Comparison
3:52 Comparison Results
4:23 Comparison With Video
6:10 Outro 
Видеоклипы
![Which Cymbals RECORD Better? [Zildjian A's vs K's]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WXL75aUssqw/mqdefault.jpg)
![NoCap - Maliboo [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FUV7E0QyniU/mqdefault.jpg)
Definition on the B is Wow. Stick articulation!! I know it's the dream because it sounds higher in pitch because it is smaller diameter and man, do i pick it every time over the zildjian. I just want to add that sometimes big brands put a hefty price tag just for the name, so i guess us musicians should also focus on the sound and not get overwhelmed by the names(and yes try cymbals in person if possible). Great stuff bro
I wholeheartedly agree! Brand doesn’t matter, it’s just about finding a good example of a cymbal! I appreciate your comment!!
yeah immediately drawn to the articulation of cymbal b, definitely what i'd go after personally but in an odd way i can also hear how that might make it cheaper sounding
Absolutely, forget the name a brand may put on a cymbal folks. For Example: Neil Peart Cymbals from Sabian. Just don't like their sound or character, but that's just me. I'm sure some love em but for what they cost (OMG way overpriced), I could buy 2 Dream or Zils for the price o 1 of them, no dis Rip Neil
I picked the Dream, but either would be a wonderful ride cymbal. They both have a crystalline quality to their sound, an ability to be clear and sharp even though both have that ‘dark’ thing that works so well in jazz
Pro Tip:
Buy your cymbals used! I have around $1,600 in cymbals on my kit right now that I only spent $900 for because I bought them used and you’d never even be able to tell they had an owner before me!
Craigslist, EBay and reverb are all great used gear shops and you can typically get gear for 1/2 - 3/4 the price of what it would cost new!
I'd just be worried about the previous owner treating the cymbal wrong and it prematurely cracking on me. I still have my Paiste Wild Crash I bought 10 years ago new
Totally. Most of my cymbals were bought used.
This one I bought new. This is a gem as good as any old Zildjian K.
I would if people in my area weren’t asking like 95% of retail for used cymbals. The gear in my area everyone wants way to much for.
No doubt! I usually "never" buy or bought a new cymbal til my Wife brought me home a brand new 17" Sabian Holy China & Wow! I recently bought a Set of new Zil A custom crashes but other than that they all (& believe me I have plenty of cymbals!) have been used, this man's right, just check em under light & make sure there's no small cracks in them, not just the she's, check the bell & now too, I've come across cymbals not even made anymore by buying used ones, & u can always find somebody looking for a cymbal u may have by buying used ones also, just saying
I preferred cymbal B... surprised to find out it was the Dream
It’s really an amazing cymbal!!
I agree! It sounds great.
I have a set of Dream Bliss cymbals, but I am definitely going to look for one of those rides!
Same
I also.
Same
As much as I really like a lot of Dream cymbals, my ears picked the Kerope over the Dream in this case. For my taste there's a musical cohesion to the tones coming off the Kerope that work together, whereas the Dream has a "pokey" midrange that protrudes and I can't unhear. All subjective though, I bet the Dream would fit perfectly in a bunch of situations.
I agree but not $400 worth.
@@farshimelt I agree as well, but we do need to keep in mind the person that made the Kerope got paid a much higher wage than the person that made the Dream. Lower prices from China tend to come at the cost of cheap labor, rushed production, and lax labor laws. Plus, he got a great deal on that Dream ride--the cheapest used one on Reverb right now is about $300.
The dream cymbals are clearly fantastic cymbals, and I'm so happy that there are great cymbals out there that more people can afford. I shiver thinking about the cheap cymbals that came with my first kit. But there is more to the price tag of a Zildjian than just good marketing.
@@farshimelt
You can’t buy the Dream for $180 though.
He got a major deal.
New price is about twice that.
This is unfair comparison... dream cymbals are too good. Hand hammered😍😍
So are Kerope
Bullshit m8
Sorry, you are right - Zildjian called them „hand made“
But they are actually machine hammered
All Zildjians are machine hammered with different amounts of human control over the hammer machine depending on the line of cymbals. All Dreams are hand-hammered. They can be awesome but they are much more variable (kinda a pro/con depending how you look at it) so it's even more strongly recommended than usual to try a particular cymbal out in person before buying. Personally, I pick Istanbul Agop Xist IONs and Wuhan Linear Smashes for my best value intermediate and low-priced (respectively) hand-hammered cymbals. I love FX cymbals though, and use them as my main ride (ION 22" - works amazingly as a crash-ride) and crash (Smash 19")
I'd probably use them both. I am, though biased to flat rides and would always have one in my set up. Dream offers some beautiful one-of-a-kinds and this is certainly one of them. Congratulations on the score!
Awesome! Blind test is the way forward buddy:) love the tuning of the drums too
Cymbal A especially against the high Tom?? Like em both tbh , good skills
I preferred B.
I got into Dream when I went to my "local" music store and tried out some cymbals, I liked the 20" Dream Bliss Vintage Crash/Ride the best and was happy when the price came in under $200. I've since purchased a 16" Dream Energy Crash and I'm looking to get more Dream cymbals once I sell my extra drum kit.
Cymbal A had lots of wash, couldn’t hear the stick definition very well, cymbal B I could hear the stick definition clearly. In a jazz trio setting I would prefer cymbal B, in a quartet or larger group, I would probably use cymbal A, it’s a little louder and probably wouldn’t get drowned out by horns. Both are nice cymbals though.
I agree, Chuck! I often go for the dream, as it is really versatile, and works well in the majority of rooms!
The Dream 22" Dark Matter Flat Ride would be a fairer comparison.
My 20" DMFR is on the way from the Drum Center of Portsmouth (NH).. This video convinced me thank you!!!
I really appreciate this video, because I know a lot of us are biased about brand, model, and price. I've heard $600 cymbals that sound awful, and $200 cymbals that sound incredible. Personally, I think it's more about figuring out what details you want your cymbal to carry (size, weight, lathing, production process) to figure out what's going to work for you.
All that said, I did prefer the Kerope. However, it's just because I love that deep, warm, washy (almost trashy) sound of a really thin 22 that has some lath, but not too much (letting that brilliance come out a little). Almost reminds me a little of an Istanbul Agop Signature ride, which is a cymbal I love.
Thanks again for the awesome video!
I love the sound on ur kit all around man I could listen for hours lol
Thanks so much Carlos!!
I preferred A and guessed it was the Zildjian. The harmonics of the cymbal worked well all together. It has an easier, laid-back sound too. Great for the proverbial smoky jazz bars. :D
It's a Kerope.
@@farshimelt
Kerope is Zildjian.
Congrats on 1.5k subs Julian! You deserve so much more
Thanks so much Ali!
Dreams are the best inexpensive cymbals on the market right now
I played one of those Dream Dark Matter rides at an open jam and was amazed. It sounds so good!
I barely prefered A over B, because it was darker, but B had more definition. I'd love to have both on my kit. They seem to be two sounds that complement each other. That said, all I've got on my kit now are a 16" and 18" pst 7 cymbals, so :/
They both sound fantastic but I thought for sure the Kerope was B. First thing I did was order the DMFR 20 (220 used these days, still a steal) and it sounds actually a lot more like 22s in videos. Probably my second favorite ride at this point, and just about singlehandedly justified my recent case of Cymbal Acquisition Syndrome.
Julian, you really did me a solid with this video! Thanks a million!
Great video again. The Kerope is similar to the Canadian K’s available some 40 years ago. Had a couple of them then but my 22 ride was a bit heavier than your Kerope, almost medium heavy. Every jazz drummer searched for old K zildjians then. I haven’t even played on one but today we have more handcrafted quality cymbals to choose from than ever. The biggest problem is the cost.
Check out Saludas. Reasonably priced and custom-made to your specs and sound.
I honestly prefer cymbal A, but i like cymbal B too. Both work really well together. Great video!
Thanks Pablo!
Dream Cymbals and Gongs are awesome. The Dream Energy 22" Crash/Ride is like the only non-high hat cymbal you will ever need.
Really cool comparison! Less difference than you'd expect at the price points!
Thank you!!
Great video, Julian! The Kerope for my ears. It carry the beat and fill the room. The Dream quite close, though.
Why drill holes for rivets?
Honest question. I Never heard of that.
Thx
Love to see it ! Cheers Julian
Thanks for watching guys! :)
Incredible! During the blind test, I was sure, that Cymbal A was a 22" Ride, so that this would have been the Kerope!!
I bought this cymbal because of this video. Its my favourite cymbal now. Adding 3 rivets covers the lower, more complex frequencies. I think all of these Dream cymbals will sound different from each other. My one sounds a bit darker. It also has warped slightly over time, most likely changing the sound further.
The first B sample sticks out for its classic flat ride character and definition. Both are great cymbals.
Thanks but where do you fin th dream at 180?
As an owner of a kerope 22 Med. I am bias. In the comparison it seemed to have more definition and attack which is my personal preference but that dream sounded almost glassy and really amazing also. Cool video, love your playing dude!
Great! Thanks Rob!
I don’t remember exact price but Dream is sold at my local drum shop and it’s based on size and thickness instead of model which I think is a smart move. The highest price I think was a 24” around $350-400 I think but Dream at the time discontinued the 24” flat ride I wanted. Hopefully it comes back.
I like A cymbal....but what sticks did you played? Thanks
Nice comparison. They are really different animals, these two, and I like them both for different reasons. They make a great pair, honestly. The Kerope has more wash and complexity, and the Dream has great stick definition.
Thanks Eric!
what snare is that?
Julian: great comparision and great point that you're endeavoring to make here: that we don't have throw down a ton of cash to attain a great ride. I didn't hear you mention the weight of the Dream Dark Matter, though...?
I love Dream cymbals. I bought a 19 inch Dream Bliss crash ride combo about 12 years and it's badass! Only 120 bucks
Hi Julian. Did you stop filming the jazz course?
Thinking of getting one of those Blue mics
What's the weight of the Kerope?
Julian all your content is awesome. Definitely one of the best on RUclips. I watched the vid on tuning your snare drum. Was wondering if you could show how you tune tour drums , they always sound awesome. I just got back into drumming after 36 yrs. trying the jazz out , it’s a tough go right now. I love all the high tuning. Wanted to know what you do. Is it a specific note or just a tone you like. And how you get to that point. Thanks and take care !
Thanks so much Michael!! I’ll definitely make a video on this. I appreciate the suggestion and support!
Cymbal B grabbed me immediately before I knew which was which. I love the stick definition in the Dream Dark Matter ride. But that is my preference in ride cymbals. Goes to show follow your ears rather than the price tag.
Is that a violet mic?
I liked A except during the 3rd pattern , for that I prefered B. I think having both in the set up is a good idea!
Hey where did you get your cymbal screw tip? cheers! great demo
both! I just love cymbals! I have all sorts. My friend said we are all sound junkies! So i like them all.
I do like them both...but I'd pick the Dream if I had to choose only one. Great demo sir
Thanks so much!
Wonder how this comparison would change if it were a medium kerope rather than thin.
Hey Julian, love your vids and channel. What is the music you are using for your video background sound in this video??
I use music from epidemic sound so I can legally use it :)
No eyes...just ears. I picked B. and was very surprised. Thanks much!
Thanks for watching!!
What is the 180$ cymbal ? '
It was not a challenge figuring out which was which, the smaller diameter cymbal has a higher pitch, both were nice imo.
There's no way a super thin 22" wasn't going to be the lower pitched cymbal, heh.
Also, the Dream is ~$300 now. Still a lot more affordable than the Kerope, but it's a far cry from $180, which was probably already a lower price than when they first appeared in stores.
True, thanks for the info! Start lookin for those used cymbals y’all!
As soon as you hit the bell on the Kerope, the guessing was over lol. You could play a pot lid and make it sound nice.
Nice job brother
Wow, very unexpected.
I think cymbal A sound so much cheaper in comparison to cymbal B!
I would definitely go for the Dark Matter one.
It's worth noting that he got a convention deal on the Dream cymbal. They cost significantly more that $180.00 if you're buying one in a store. While the Dream might not be as much as the Zildjian, it's a bit misleading to suggest that the difference in the price is that significant. The Dream Flat Earth Ride is an amazing cymbal, complex and dark with a haunting low fundamental.
Cymbal b. I just acquired a paiste 2002 flat ride. 1976. Love it. Pat Methany music is what got me interested in flat rides.
I love flat rides, such a cool sound. Roy Haynes!
What do you think about those quiet cymbals like the l80s compared to electric cymbals?
I actually haven’t played them enough to comment on this throughly. Would love to check them out though!
Yeh they're not very popular so but I'm saving up for a real cymbal anyway
It would be interesting with a drum tuning video for jazz. I hear that you have a classic, high and distinct tuning of your kit. Cymbals is one thing but you can’t change the pitch. With the drums, you can do a whole lot to the sound and feeling.
I’ll try to make a video about tuning soon! Thanks Raymond!
I love your channel.
Thanks so much!!
Haha nice. Honestly it was pretty obvious. The dreams have those often clanky unrefined overtones. You make them sound good though! Your touch has a lot to do with it I think. I'm glad you a good experience with dreams though. I just found them to be a little too inconsistent.
I agree actually, this is one of the only dreams I’ve really dug. They can be REALLY inconsistent lol
+1 clanky unrefined overtones. that's the difference right there.
They’ve both got that John Riley rain forest sound. I’m going for the Dream…✌️🇦🇺
The tonal spread of a cymbal is a huge price factor and the Kerope leaves the dream languishing in that sense. The dryness of the dream is very desirable but limiting in terms of application
Great video! What hats are those? I’ve seen you play them in a lot of videos and they sound great.
Thanks Martin! They are 15” Istanbul Agop Jazz Hats!
The Dream sounded beautiful!
Ribits or Rivits?
I preferred b. Great vid. Thank you!
Thanks Timothy! I appreciate it man!
I sussed that the Dream was the Dream when I heard it, the wash and sustain of it has a particular character that I think most Dream cymbals have.
Agreed. That shimmer sound is iconic.
I've always liked the dream flat ride. Never played one but it sounds nice. Do you ever use a swish cymbal?
I actually do have one, but rarely play it! I’ll make a video on it soon
Love the videos man. Have a paiste sound creation 22 in dark ride i moved off my kit if you or someone you know would be interested. Not looking to gauge someone I’d rather it go so someone who’d really appreciate it
I have 22” Dream and it’s awesome! I wish I got it for $180! But didn’t pay a lot more than that! Love all my Dreams!
I love them both.... A lot. For different situations.
I keep watching this video because that dream cymbal sounded so good.
Gotta love the dream!!
They both sound good.
Shocked to say I picked cymbal B. That’s a great cymbal!
Awesome, thanks Casey!
Kerope weight ?
Tough to compare these two as they have very different characteristics. The Kerope has a lot more body and feels like a main ride. Has a very Tony Williams/Bill Stewart vibe. The Dream is a cool cymbal, but has a much thinner sound for more sparse or lower volume parts.
i liked the dream one better. doesn't mean it is actually "better", but more my taste. anyway, thanks for showing me these, might actually buy it, i found it at a good price
B has that glass sound to it. I prefer the Kerope but @180$ there is no contest.
Mine cost way more than both of these combined. It sounds great when the power goes out. The tone of rubber is pretty top tier.
The overtones on the Kerope are richer and fuller but it seems like that may be the point of the dark matter line, so i think its all about taste and purpose.
You got me , I thought B is the Kerope, but I liked B more definitely I’ll look more into Dream cymbals
I liked the K more but thought it was the other one guessing so I got that part wrong.
Okay but where can I find that Dream cymbal for $180!? Everywhere I look it’s more like $300
Wish I knew, I definitely got a great deal on mine because it was the last day of PASIC
Preferred the darker quality of Cymbal A, but wish it had the clear articulation of Cymbal B.
What are weights of each cymbal?
Not sure on the dream but the Zildjian is 2168 grams
@@JulianArcher Thank you!
Cymbal A all the way...
I like the bell of "A" but I like the soft, dark sound of "B". Both sound great. Overall, I choose "B".
I was surprised as well
Wow, I thought the cymbal B was the Kerope! Both are great, but I slightly preferred cymbal B.
Like the Dream better. Great score! It's not totally my taste bcuz it is a bit too crystalline sounding for me. I dig Istanbul Agop Signatures or Istanbul Agop Special Edition Jazz(I play one almost all the time) most and they're quite different( lower fundamental note) but really expensive. If I could get yours for $180 ,I'd do it in a heartbeat and find a way to tone it down a tad. I hate doing this but maybe a strip of duct tape on underside. I played an 18" crash by Dream at a house gig kit for at least a year or so and it was very decent but again a tad bright for me for swing stuff.
They both sound great. Maybe cymbal B.
i like that $530 sounds
Also consider that $180 for a ride cymbal is reasonable. In that price range I expect stuff to be already good. Especiall these days, there are several brands with great sounds for reasonable prices.
Personally, I just find a cymbal for $530 over-priced. I appreciate the value of a good instrument and when taken care of well, it's a life-long investment, but still.
Not sure why, but alone I like the sound of the Dream. But when you add the drums the K really shines. Weird.
This is definitely true of old K’s and A’s. Which I collect. They generally are nothing special compared to a decent modern Meinl or Istanbul, of which there are many many thousands.
22"kerope seemed to have a couple rivets in it.
Id want both. Different sounds.
Cymbal B seems like what I'd want if I could only have one ride.
CYMBAL A