Its A1 class and a fire suppressant, non-flammable, non-toxic WHEN & IF IT LEAKS but safer to users if it does especially in the latest weather changes. So which class non-flammable or flammable IF IT LEAKES almost a zero chance if you are a qualified and trained engineer.
@@neilafram663 Class A1 doesn't necessarily mean it's a fire suppressant. Of course any gas is a fire suppressant if it displaces all the oxygen, but class A1 refrigerants can burn if exposed to an open flame too.
why was it when i took my EPA cetifcation last year that they said the GWP for 410a was 1200. then i did a traning class about the new stuff a couple months ago saying it was 2000 and now this video is saying its over 2500? this is starting to sound like bullshit
Starting? Its been going on since the clean air act of the 90s with the fear mongering of refrigerants and fake science. Thats what happens when you have corporations that have enough money and power to manipulate law makers.
That's a good point. I remember that while R-22 had a High Ozone Depletion Potential, it had a really low GWP. 410a on the other has always been a super greenhouse gas with a GWP much higher than 22 . Well at least that's what I thought. I'm doing some research into it now and it seems like 22 has a GWP of about 1800 and 410 is about 2100. I've never seen anything say 410 was 1200, but by the quick research I just did, it does seem there is a lot of discrepancy from source to source, agenda to agenda. Now I want to go look for my early study material to see what that said in print decades ago.
It's just a coincidence that every time something is supposed to save the planet it's more expensive and makes life harder for regular working families, but it makes a lot more money for giant corporations and trust fund families.
The EPA keeps moving the goal post! We were at the "good enough" stage of preserving their ozone layer. No mention of volcanic eruptions that would put chlorine in the upper atmosphere, more chlorine than all of the cfc refrigerants combined. Ozone layer? Apparently no longer a concern, now they switch off to their GWP.
@@dknowles60 you better look at the chemical composition before making a fool of yourself here ya go What is R22? R22 is a refrigerant with the chemical formula CHClF2 or ChlorodifluoroMETHANE. Why has it been banned? The Chlorine element of R22 is a proven ozone depleting gas and contributes to global warming when released in to the atmosphere. has methane in it, called propane
Yes, they are as they (chemical companies, Daikin & Chemoure) ass-u-me IF THERE IS A LEAK, what is missed is that at the compression cycle (internal) there should be tolerable moisture presence (moisture is H2 & Oxygen) when using A1 which has no effect if the compression cycle temperature reaches the ignition temperature of the oil (lower than R32), remember A1 class is non-flammable BUT if A2L or A2 or A3 then if the oil ignites (in the presence of oxygen) A2L or A3 might ignite and an explosion will occur. So the vacuum process has to be perfect (lower than A1 class). Knowing everything, why use it? yes if it leaks it's low GWP BUT FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE?! sound stupid!! that's why the A1 class has been around since 1928! and we have chemical companies (Daikin & Chemoure) shoving it down our throats!
@@neilafram663 Daikin has been using 100% R32 outside of the USA in MILLIONS OF INSTALLATIONS over SEVERAL DECADES. I'm not concerned about your "FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE" prediction.
@@TheGhettoLobster yep... bureaucrats believe my ounce of lost refrigerant will melt the ice cap while industry and 3rd world dump it by the boat load.
@@ericspratt3164 I've been saying for years that if the government's really cared about the environment they would have a moratorium on War making. All these wars and all the fires and burning cities probably spews a lot more dangerous chemicals into the air that our air conditioners.
Good video with the information about the refrigerants. I think GWP is a bunch of bs though which isn't AC Service Tech's fault so, dont downvote his video for that guys.
agree, but downloaded as it shows when Chemical companies (Daikin.. yes Daikin have a chemical decision and their CEO has been conned (he is on his way out). The safety of your customers is your responsibility and not manufacturers who will wash their hands 1st ;)
@@Whitey23 Because it places unnecessary burden on ordinary people for minimal impact to the climate. Most of the climate adgenda is a grift to line the pockets of big donors to the politicians.
Thank you, sir! This is great information. We may or may not have asked for this change but we must accept that it is happening and roll up our sleeves! The EPA class actually taught me a lot, so it wasn't a bad deal for me. I plan to do the A2L class next year! Great learning experience 👍🏻
What’s the biggest change? It’s gonna cost consumers a whole lot more money to stay comfortable. Be prepared for another refrigerant and equipment change in 5 to 10 years. It’s all about GDP not GWP!
I can't wait till some customer makes a post about how they remember a tech selling them a new system because "R-22 is illegal and not environmentally friendly" and now the same thing happens to their 410a system. HAH
So now that I have a 410 unit sitting and waiting to be installed I'm pretty much putting in a unit I need to hope will never need to be serviced for 10 years. Wonder if 32 or 454 can be used instead on 1st charge? Worked in the 70's and 80's on chevelle's, lol.
Don't let em fool ya, there will be a replacement refrigerant(s) for 410 just like they've done for 22, however just like the 22 replacements they won't work quite as well.
Another big difference between R-32 and R-454B is 32's much higher discharge temperature requiring a different grade of POE oil, (POE-68,) than the POE used in most R-410/R-454B systems, (POE-32.)
Sweet, higher discharge temperatures = lower compressor life, and smoked valves. They had the same sort of fun way back in the day trying to run freezers off of R22 because R22 used to be a $1 a lb. Well, at those low pressures, R22 discharge temp went sky high and the manufacturers tried all kinds of stupid stunts like head cooling fans, demand cooling, demand liquid injection etc all of which lower the system efficiency, and use more electricity. Same thing is happening again in places like California that banned R404A and replaced with R448/449A which have the same problems like 32/454B/22. Suprising thing is, R290 (propane) has almost identical pressures as R22, and MUCH lower discharge temps (I can grab the discharge line right off the compressor on a freezer running R290 and not even close to burning my finger). Yeah Propane (R290) is very very flammable, but it has just about 0 GWP, and 0 ODP, and can use normal POE oil or just about any compressor oil will work too, since it's a hydrocarbon refrigerant, I don't see why it wouldn't work great with mineral oil, but POE oil is probably a better compressor lubricant. I think all this stuff is nonsense, and they should just be working to switch everything to CO2 for a refrigerant. It's completely non-flammable, in fact, it makes a very good fire extinguisher, it's cheap, widely available, and can help reduce CO2 in the atmosphere by pulling it out when making liquid air etc. Hussmann already has a high efficiency CO2 system for supermarkets marketed under the Advansor name, I've already seen Coca-Cola and Pepsi display cases and vending machines that say R744 on the nameplate, so it can be done. And in those systems, they just look like a normal refrigerator type of hermetic compressor, copper brazed tubing, condenser coil doesn't look like anything special. The industry should just switch to CO2, and stop it with all this flavor of the month gas stuff. Nobody should have to carry 13 different colored bottles on their service truck, all kinds of different hose adaptors, it already got stupid with the 5/16 flare connections to connect to a mini-split system, and automotive with several different service port connectors. You think a small town car repair shop has the time/space/money to keep 4-5 different recovery machines taking up space? One for R134A, one for R1234YF, and one for R1234ZE or whatever the latest BS FOTM shit is. CO2 is easy, 100 psi low side pressure is good for freezers or low temp, 200 psi for coolers/medium temp refrigeration, 400 psi for high temp/air conditioning. Just don't let the pressures fall below like 50 psi during operation or charging, and it'll avoid the dry ice problem. Yes pressures are crazy high, but with adiabatic supercritical CO2 systems can achieve very high COP values, and have real world higher electrical efficiencies than traditional supermarket refrigerants like 404A, 448A, 449A, R507 etc, plus CO2 is much cheaper and can be delivered in bulk on a truck. The infrastructure is already in place for that is most cities and towns, bars and larger restaurants already get liquid CO2 bulk delivery for keg beer systems and post mix soft drink sales.
C02 is good but they still need constant care. I heard it’s difficult to troubleshoot the C02 system due to additional equipment to operate it. Some of the stores have it but when system breaks down it breaks down. Same with other equipment. The cost comparison is double that of other refrigerants.
@@troyjackson3164 Right, but a lot of supermarkets and large stores like a super Wal-Mart have 100's of tons of refrigeration, and as things are right now, they tend to run the receivers at minimum charge levels, because if there's a bad leak somewhere, they don't want to run the risk of losing 10's of 1000's of dollars worth of refrigerant. With CO2 being so cheap, you can run with more proper system charge levels, and then a small leak isn't as devastating. The upfront equipment cost might be double, but the cost savings of electricity especially in hot climates like interior California or Phoenix metro areas combined with the very high electricity rates there, it won't take long to break even on it. As far as reliability goes, well, if you look at those big R448/R449A rack systems with all that complicated demand cooling, liquid injection, and cool vapor injection systems with all those additional points of leaks, I would argue a 448/449 rack system isn't any better and definitely not easy to troubleshoot. It's all new stuff, it'll get better over time as bugs get worked out. Any time you rob liquid from the liquid line that could be going out to the cases, and instead you use it to cool the return gas, you're losing capacity and energy efficiency. The other benefit would be more stability, seems like over the last 2 decades, many refrigerants have come and gone, and people are getting tired of this flavor of the month stuff. I don't think CO2 will ever be banned, and it makes a good fire extinguisher rather than an A2L refrigerant.
And I guess their will be a nice led light and trouble shooting chart to tell the home owner he has (low) flammable freon leaking in his home ( OMG ) fire fire fire 🔥
Great video, very clear and concise. Two points it should mention standards regarding refrigerants like AHRAE 34 & 15 & ISO 817. Also for info, the 700 GWP limit is a figure from Daiki (patent holder of R32) and is NOT legal, moralor ethical. We should not use any class of refrigerant EXCEPT A1 class since 1928!.
I don't own an electric car but you should realize that A/C usage is a problem for the electrical grid when everyone uses it at the same time during peak hours. Charging electric cars usually isn't a problem as most of them are scheduled to charge overnight during low usage.
Why is it in central and south America countries they use their AC day and night. Non stop as a 3rd world region. Yet in canada and US we cant? I feel like taking a few bottles and opening them up to atmosphere. This is nuts.
They already had r32. It worked. They mixed it with r125 to make 410a and got a patent. Now they're banning 410a so they took r32 and mixed it with r1234yf to make r454b, another patent. R32 is a single molecule but it is freely available worldwide. Can't have that, it's too easy and convenient, and we can't charge as much.
Right on! Daikin has been using 100% R32 outside of the USA in over 200 MILLION INSTALLATIONS over SEVERAL DECADES. The R32 never enters the home; its far more safer than having a propane gas tank to grill your food outside.
"Puron" Is no longer acceptable as an environmentally friendly refrigerant. Imagine that. Remember the cute little earth graphic they'd put in the "O" in Puron? Haha. This industry is so stupid now. Every manufacturer grand standing on the "environmentally friendly" mega hoax with oversized condensers, evaps, microchannel, ecm garbage etc. How is it more friendly to the environment if leaks are 20x more common and were creating more waste that just goes into a landfill?
Our HVAC tech/Owner has been in business for 30 years and can always be counted on for the best service! He attends all the updates and his 3 trucks/vans are equipped with all the latest tools and testing equipment. He recently next year will be his last as the expense to suppy new techs with tools and add several more fully equipped vans is not worth it. And now due to the up coming changes the time and effort takes a toll on him at his age!! I know what it's like as I spent 35 years in the automotive field and too many changes also take a toll as one reaches retirement age. I have over $100,000 in tools in my basement. One tool cabinet is loaded with R12,R134 and 123Yf. Testers, fittings, gauges!! John
This is the first video I’ve seen that actually points out that 410a and r454 have the same base component. We attended an in-person r454 class from Carrier and they didn’t even mention it.
Our technician has talked to me about why you are switching from our 410 a refrigerant to our 32 refrigerant I got the full details from him. I really think they should stay with our 410 a and my opinion.
It’s a little weird here in Norway .. we’re moving away from R32 because it’s bad for the environment but the big tanker ships are spewing out refrigeration out to like no tomorrow and all “they” care about is the minisplits 😅
I've seen ships still using R22, like fishing trawlers have like 4 100 horsepower compressors in the engine room for all the fish freezers. Only newer ones are like R410A.
I’m glad I’m retiring in a few years and taking my 25 years of experience with me. The people that have never touched tools or tried to troubleshoot a piece of equipment are coming up with this stuff.
I've been around long enough to remember the r22 to r410 transition , they said all the same BS back then,just a little less sophisticated. 😂😂😂 And for something that is touted as being a low flammable refrigerant there's sure alot of extra safety procedures involved with these new refrigerants. I also work on residential refrigerators and ice machines which are also already using r600 and r290, but those systems have like 1 ounce of refrigerant. HVAC systems we are talking pounds....I dont worry about 1 oz of semi flammable gas venting in the air, but 6 or 7 lbs?? Yeah, nah.
The more they change refrigerants, the more screw ups there are by techs which sells more units. Also, the new refrigerants create markets for more units. As for the climate stuff, it's all absolute BS that common man is creating those circumstances. It is corporations that are polluting massively and creating all the circumstances that they term as climate change. Nothing in this capitalistic world is anything but a lie that is intended to generate more money.
And if the leak is inside your plenum on the evaporator coil, it's flooding your entire house every time the blower kicks on. Mmmmm... I love the smell of R22 in the morning! Have your heating and cooling systems inspected frequently. Murica! 🇺🇸
Yes we have lots of troubleshooting videos on Mini Splits and we also have the whole book on Inverter Mini splits on Amazon and at acservicetech.com thanks!
And how much money is generated to make these changes? What do these GWP numbers actually represent? Meanwhile at my local HVAC wholesaler, they have stacks of R-22 still for sale.
im not even doubting the science, it's just the little things like the left handed threads and gray bottles that will get annoying. having to double check your hoses are left handed threads or remembering to bring an adapter. double checking the bottles since all refrigerants are gonna be a gray color soon.
As far as glide is concerned, isn't a piston metering device pretty much a thing of the past except on older units that would be using 410a or 22 that have minimal and no glide. Unless we are getting into the weeds on trouble shooting, we are going to be charging using sub cooling only. Wouldn't we just use the liquid saturated (bubble) almost exclusively?
Thanks Craig. I taken 3 other seminars and this one is probably the best so far. The more I hear about this change the less I feel it's a problem. The main things are more bottles in the truck and more dangerous in your truck if they leak. Good time to quit smoking. The HVAC equipment doesn't seem different at all. The air handlers and furnaces will need a new safety control and leak sensor. I doubt that will work at all. Goodman seems to have already switched to R32 on the condensing units and heat pumps but the indoor units are still non-compliant. Maybe we should add an odor to the refrigerant so you know when it's leaking- not rotten eggs- how about Irish spring.
Hi Craig. Thank you for this very good information, please if you could inform us more when something new comes up. thanks in advance. Great informative video.
And R500 too. Carrier used it quite a bit, and was also used for like Thermo-King truck mounted refrigeration units. R23 for ultra low temp stuff. And you missed R11, on old Trane Centrevac low pressure centrifugal chiller systems on 2400/4160 volts :) fun times. My Dad used to use R11 for a lineset flush or evap coil flush after a bad compressor burnout, best solvent for cleanup ever. Too bad it's toxic and super bad for the environment though.
With these new features on hone systems, I'm sure the initial cost is higher for R32 systems. In addition, I think home owners insurance will increase.
Do you have any books/literature specific to vrf systems?? specifically dealing with 3 pipe's and branch selectors. is their any extra information needed thatis not in your mini split book
I am going to wait it out and see how this goes. I think one good thing is it may keep hacks that dont use vacuum pumps or micron gauges for testing from getting away with bad installations. I think they will get oxygen in with the compressor and make an explosive situation
the problem with digital gauges is the "sampling" interval/ate. It's to slow to capture "deflections" in pressures due to compressor issues. analog gauges will show you that.
Excuse me sir I thought we were switching from r32 to 410 which is safer and doesn’t have much flammable things in it ? Most of us have r410 and you’re telling me we’re going back wards ? And isn’t 507c another almost exact as r32 like huh ?
Between the 2, I'd rather use 32 as it's a single component refrigerant.....while 454b is an azetropic blend and has a glide. We have already seen these A2L in heavy commercial. 1233zd, 513a, 514a, 1234ze etc etc. HFO and HFC mixtures
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I wonder what the gwp for india and china is?
It is the same GWP ... And we should have asked USA instead of India or China ..coz they have used R32 for decades. 😂
Yea everywhere been using R32 forever, except usa
Omg so true lol
Idk, but maybe we should stop buying shit from china. The USA is one of the big reasons for their pollution lol
If India had an EPA, they would shut the country down. Between water and air pollution they would require a lockout tag.
I'm still using and storing My R12 refrigerant, I'm glad I did.
illegal here in Canada
Still have a jug of R12 👍🏻
Its A1 class and a fire suppressant, non-flammable, non-toxic WHEN & IF IT LEAKS but safer to users if it does especially in the latest weather changes. So which class non-flammable or flammable IF IT LEAKES almost a zero chance if you are a qualified and trained engineer.
@@neilafram663 Class A1 doesn't necessarily mean it's a fire suppressant. Of course any gas is a fire suppressant if it displaces all the oxygen, but class A1 refrigerants can burn if exposed to an open flame too.
why was it when i took my EPA cetifcation last year that they said the GWP for 410a was 1200. then i did a traning class about the new stuff a couple months ago saying it was 2000 and now this video is saying its over 2500? this is starting to sound like bullshit
Starting? Its been going on since the clean air act of the 90s with the fear mongering of refrigerants and fake science. Thats what happens when you have corporations that have enough money and power to manipulate law makers.
Bingo!!!!
Looks like shit, tastes like shit, must be shit.
Absolute bs
That's a good point. I remember that while R-22 had a High Ozone Depletion Potential, it had a really low GWP. 410a on the other has always been a super greenhouse gas with a GWP much higher than 22 . Well at least that's what I thought. I'm doing some research into it now and it seems like 22 has a GWP of about 1800 and 410 is about 2100. I've never seen anything say 410 was 1200, but by the quick research I just did, it does seem there is a lot of discrepancy from source to source, agenda to agenda. Now I want to go look for my early study material to see what that said in print decades ago.
It's just a coincidence that every time something is supposed to save the planet it's more expensive and makes life harder for regular working families, but it makes a lot more money for giant corporations and trust fund families.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one to realize this
Yea and it’s funny because we done even live on a planet
And we're the only ones in the world being forced into/ actually following any of this
Europe is also strict im sure but ac is not as common
@@dan827China signed the Montreal Protocol in 2015. I agree the things happening here is total bull$hit and a money grab
The EPA keeps moving the goal post! We were at the "good enough" stage of preserving their ozone layer. No mention of volcanic eruptions that would put chlorine in the upper atmosphere, more chlorine than all of the cfc refrigerants combined. Ozone layer? Apparently no longer a concern, now they switch off to their GWP.
Craig you rock, don’t stop creating content. I learn a bunch from you
Thanks for watching!
His content is pretty good.
Thank you Craig for the information. Please keep us updated.
I like hot weather; bring on the best refrigerant ever “R-22”!
Nothing works better faster or colder than R22
propane works faster and better than r22
@@williamfowler616 nice lie.
@@dknowles60 really? look at the glide scale for propane and it is better than r22, almost exact in a lot of places
@@williamfowler616 not
@@dknowles60 you better look at the chemical composition before making a fool of yourself
here ya go
What is R22? R22 is a refrigerant with the chemical formula CHClF2 or ChlorodifluoroMETHANE. Why has it been banned? The Chlorine element of R22 is a proven ozone depleting gas and contributes to global warming when released in to the atmosphere.
has methane in it, called propane
Good video ! The end result is higher costs - just more pressure on the less advantaged . We already carry 9 different types……..
The left hand threads is the biggest slap
In the face
It's like when you get a muzzle brake that's M14 X1L and you're like what the hell?.
How much refrigerant will leak out of bottles that people crossthread?
That’s bullshit😂😂😂
I think all flammable gases have a left hand thread
Not gas lines
Just love looking a customer dead in the eye and saying "By the time the warranty is up EPA will force you to buy another system"
That’s a lot of safety precautions for refrigerants that supposedly “are not really that flammable “.
don't huff it and smoke a cig
Yes, they are as they (chemical companies, Daikin & Chemoure) ass-u-me IF THERE IS A LEAK, what is missed is that at the compression cycle (internal) there should be tolerable moisture presence (moisture is H2 & Oxygen) when using A1 which has no effect if the compression cycle temperature reaches the ignition temperature of the oil (lower than R32), remember A1 class is non-flammable BUT if A2L or A2 or A3 then if the oil ignites (in the presence of oxygen) A2L or A3 might ignite and an explosion will occur. So the vacuum process has to be perfect (lower than A1 class). Knowing everything, why use it? yes if it leaks it's low GWP BUT FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE?! sound stupid!! that's why the A1 class has been around since 1928! and we have chemical companies (Daikin & Chemoure) shoving it down our throats!
@@neilafram663 Daikin has been using 100% R32 outside of the USA in MILLIONS OF INSTALLATIONS over SEVERAL DECADES. I'm not concerned about your "FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE" prediction.
@@edwardbutka4750 nice lie
@@dknowles60 Sorry, I cleaned up my response. I got wrong information form my source. Thanks for calling attention to it.
Imagine being an HVAC tech in Arizona, mid August with these tanks in your van?
They probably already know the next refrigerant they’ll foist on the consumer in 10 to 15 years.
It's propane or CO2
Butane
@@Beastphilosophy Nah, those are naturally occurring and therefore can't be patented. There's no money in that.
About time to just start using the propane bottle off the coleman grill to fill up the minisplit.
Sounds like nuisance service calls and extra expense for the consumer.
Hey but you saved the planet by putting in a lesser GWP refrigerant into your home
@@TheGhettoLobster yep... bureaucrats believe my ounce of lost refrigerant will melt the ice cap while industry and 3rd world dump it by the boat load.
@@TheGhettoLobster yep, never mind 3rd world and industrial dumping it into the atmosphere by the boat load, it was grandma’s 2.5 ton all along.
@@ericspratt3164😂
@@ericspratt3164 I've been saying for years that if the government's really cared about the environment they would have a moratorium on War making. All these wars and all the fires and burning cities probably spews a lot more dangerous chemicals into the air that our air conditioners.
Another great video Craig..great information
Good video with the information about the refrigerants. I think GWP is a bunch of bs though which isn't AC Service Tech's fault so, dont downvote his video for that guys.
Why is it bs?
agree, but downloaded as it shows when Chemical companies (Daikin.. yes Daikin have a chemical decision and their CEO has been conned (he is on his way out). The safety of your customers is your responsibility and not manufacturers who will wash their hands 1st ;)
@Whitey23 Simple answer is, until China and India reign in their pollution, low GWP refrigerants will make ZERO difference. None.
@@Whitey23 Because it places unnecessary burden on ordinary people for minimal impact to the climate. Most of the climate adgenda is a grift to line the pockets of big donors to the politicians.
Thank you, sir! This is great information. We may or may not have asked for this change but we must accept that it is happening and roll up our sleeves! The EPA class actually taught me a lot, so it wasn't a bad deal for me. I plan to do the A2L class next year! Great learning experience 👍🏻
What’s the biggest change? It’s gonna cost consumers a whole lot more money to stay comfortable. Be prepared for another refrigerant and equipment change in 5 to 10 years. It’s all about GDP not GWP!
I'm assuming this applies to the USA only, as most of the world has used R-32 for 20+ years already.
I can't wait till some customer makes a post about how they remember a tech selling them a new system because "R-22 is illegal and not environmentally friendly" and now the same thing happens to their 410a system. HAH
Agreed
Wait until they start banning all of the PFAS-containing refrigerants, like R-454B. One of the new ones coming soon in the USA.
GDP over humanity? You are a joke
So now that I have a 410 unit sitting and waiting to be installed I'm pretty much putting in a unit I need to hope will never need to be serviced for 10 years. Wonder if 32 or 454 can be used instead on 1st charge? Worked in the 70's and 80's on chevelle's, lol.
Don't let em fool ya, there will be a replacement refrigerant(s) for 410 just like they've done for 22, however just like the 22 replacements they won't work quite as well.
Just stock a couple of 410A jugs, they will weight in gold in 10 years.
Awesome video!
Another big difference between R-32 and R-454B is 32's much higher discharge temperature requiring a different grade of POE oil, (POE-68,) than the POE used in most R-410/R-454B systems, (POE-32.)
Sweet, higher discharge temperatures = lower compressor life, and smoked valves. They had the same sort of fun way back in the day trying to run freezers off of R22 because R22 used to be a $1 a lb. Well, at those low pressures, R22 discharge temp went sky high and the manufacturers tried all kinds of stupid stunts like head cooling fans, demand cooling, demand liquid injection etc all of which lower the system efficiency, and use more electricity. Same thing is happening again in places like California that banned R404A and replaced with R448/449A which have the same problems like 32/454B/22. Suprising thing is, R290 (propane) has almost identical pressures as R22, and MUCH lower discharge temps (I can grab the discharge line right off the compressor on a freezer running R290 and not even close to burning my finger). Yeah Propane (R290) is very very flammable, but it has just about 0 GWP, and 0 ODP, and can use normal POE oil or just about any compressor oil will work too, since it's a hydrocarbon refrigerant, I don't see why it wouldn't work great with mineral oil, but POE oil is probably a better compressor lubricant.
I think all this stuff is nonsense, and they should just be working to switch everything to CO2 for a refrigerant. It's completely non-flammable, in fact, it makes a very good fire extinguisher, it's cheap, widely available, and can help reduce CO2 in the atmosphere by pulling it out when making liquid air etc.
Hussmann already has a high efficiency CO2 system for supermarkets marketed under the Advansor name, I've already seen Coca-Cola and Pepsi display cases and vending machines that say R744 on the nameplate, so it can be done. And in those systems, they just look like a normal refrigerator type of hermetic compressor, copper brazed tubing, condenser coil doesn't look like anything special. The industry should just switch to CO2, and stop it with all this flavor of the month gas stuff. Nobody should have to carry 13 different colored bottles on their service truck, all kinds of different hose adaptors, it already got stupid with the 5/16 flare connections to connect to a mini-split system, and automotive with several different service port connectors. You think a small town car repair shop has the time/space/money to keep 4-5 different recovery machines taking up space? One for R134A, one for R1234YF, and one for R1234ZE or whatever the latest BS FOTM shit is.
CO2 is easy, 100 psi low side pressure is good for freezers or low temp, 200 psi for coolers/medium temp refrigeration, 400 psi for high temp/air conditioning. Just don't let the pressures fall below like 50 psi during operation or charging, and it'll avoid the dry ice problem. Yes pressures are crazy high, but with adiabatic supercritical CO2 systems can achieve very high COP values, and have real world higher electrical efficiencies than traditional supermarket refrigerants like 404A, 448A, 449A, R507 etc, plus CO2 is much cheaper and can be delivered in bulk on a truck. The infrastructure is already in place for that is most cities and towns, bars and larger restaurants already get liquid CO2 bulk delivery for keg beer systems and post mix soft drink sales.
C02 is good but they still need constant care. I heard it’s difficult to troubleshoot the C02 system due to additional equipment to operate it. Some of the stores have it but when system breaks down it breaks down. Same with other equipment. The cost comparison is double that of other refrigerants.
@@troyjackson3164 Right, but a lot of supermarkets and large stores like a super Wal-Mart have 100's of tons of refrigeration, and as things are right now, they tend to run the receivers at minimum charge levels, because if there's a bad leak somewhere, they don't want to run the risk of losing 10's of 1000's of dollars worth of refrigerant. With CO2 being so cheap, you can run with more proper system charge levels, and then a small leak isn't as devastating. The upfront equipment cost might be double, but the cost savings of electricity especially in hot climates like interior California or Phoenix metro areas combined with the very high electricity rates there, it won't take long to break even on it. As far as reliability goes, well, if you look at those big R448/R449A rack systems with all that complicated demand cooling, liquid injection, and cool vapor injection systems with all those additional points of leaks, I would argue a 448/449 rack system isn't any better and definitely not easy to troubleshoot. It's all new stuff, it'll get better over time as bugs get worked out. Any time you rob liquid from the liquid line that could be going out to the cases, and instead you use it to cool the return gas, you're losing capacity and energy efficiency.
The other benefit would be more stability, seems like over the last 2 decades, many refrigerants have come and gone, and people are getting tired of this flavor of the month stuff. I don't think CO2 will ever be banned, and it makes a good fire extinguisher rather than an A2L refrigerant.
@@brnmcc01
Now the ACs will have another part that can failed, the refrigerant sensor, I wonder if those sensors will last more than 5 years
Or nearby lightning, moisture, spiders, ants even snakes and lizards. All wreak havoc on equipment.
@jamminwrenches860 and duty air filters may cause a problem
And I guess their will be a nice led light and trouble shooting chart to tell the home owner he has (low) flammable freon leaking in his home ( OMG ) fire fire fire 🔥
New ac and lineset bby
Great video, very clear and concise. Two points it should mention standards regarding refrigerants like AHRAE 34 & 15 & ISO 817. Also for info, the 700 GWP limit is a figure from Daiki (patent holder of R32) and is NOT legal, moralor ethical. We should not use any class of refrigerant EXCEPT A1 class since 1928!.
Gr8 video. Can we use same vaccum pump for r410 and r32 or do we have to buy a seperate vacuum pump thats compatible with r32. Cheers
You will be told this summer to lower your AC usage to stop overwhelming the electric grid while being encouraged to drive electric vehicles.
I don't own an electric car but you should realize that A/C usage is a problem for the electrical grid when everyone uses it at the same time during peak hours. Charging electric cars usually isn't a problem as most of them are scheduled to charge overnight during low usage.
Why is it in central and south America countries they use their AC day and night. Non stop as a 3rd world region. Yet in canada and US we cant? I feel like taking a few bottles and opening them up to atmosphere. This is nuts.
In Europe they don't even have a lot of AC systems; because of all of what you guys have said, and the information given in this video
@@johnathancornett9031 nice thought. But in practice people just plug it in when they get home. Most people don't have it set on a timer.
Houston has no power right now.
What a great idea to use the same color and pattern on the tanks! Good job guys! 😂
We had a laugh about that in the shop 🤣
They already had r32. It worked. They mixed it with r125 to make 410a and got a patent. Now they're banning 410a so they took r32 and mixed it with r1234yf to make r454b, another patent. R32 is a single molecule but it is freely available worldwide. Can't have that, it's too easy and convenient, and we can't charge as much.
Right on! Daikin has been using 100% R32 outside of the USA in over 200 MILLION INSTALLATIONS over SEVERAL DECADES. The R32 never enters the home; its far more safer than having a propane gas tank to grill your food outside.
exactly....
GWP is the “trust me bro” version of environmental science
It's so ridiculous
"Puron" Is no longer acceptable as an environmentally friendly refrigerant. Imagine that. Remember the cute little earth graphic they'd put in the "O" in Puron? Haha. This industry is so stupid now. Every manufacturer grand standing on the "environmentally friendly" mega hoax with oversized condensers, evaps, microchannel, ecm garbage etc. How is it more friendly to the environment if leaks are 20x more common and were creating more waste that just goes into a landfill?
Yup, and when you think about it, all these gas changes disproportionately affect the low-income populations at the end of the day.
GWP = Greta Was Pissed
I wonder how they come up with the global warming numbers🤔🤔. A total joke
Higher pressures will equal more leaks. Is more leaks really more environmentally friendly??
More evap coils will be all aluminum is my guess but you and I know those tend to suck too
@@kevinbennett2565 microchannel aluminum coils were the worst thing to happen to this industry lol
Thanks a very thorough explanation on a very complex Refrigerants gaz.😀
Glad it was helpful!
Our HVAC tech/Owner has been in business for 30 years and can always be counted on for the best service! He attends all the updates and his 3 trucks/vans are equipped with all the latest tools and testing equipment. He recently next year will be his last as the expense to suppy new techs with tools and add several more fully equipped vans is not worth it. And now due to the up coming changes the time and effort takes a toll on him at his age!! I know what it's like as I spent 35 years in the automotive field and too many changes also take a toll as one reaches retirement age. I have over $100,000 in tools in my basement. One tool cabinet is loaded with R12,R134 and 123Yf. Testers, fittings, gauges!! John
I want to know when the NFPA is going to require techs to start having a fire extinguisher on site as well. Any word on that?
Screw this, I’m retiring!
😅😂👍
Seriously!
No shit - time to semi-retire and become a Comfort Advisor
I guess I will pull a trailer behind my van to haul all the different refrigerants to the job!
I'm just getting into the business as my father is retiring soon, well f me
This is the first video I’ve seen that actually points out that 410a and r454 have the same base component. We attended an in-person r454 class from Carrier and they didn’t even mention it.
Our technician has talked to me about why you are switching from our 410 a refrigerant to our 32 refrigerant I got the full details from him. I really think they should stay with our 410 a and my opinion.
Another great video as always. Thank you for sharing. Have a nice weekend
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it!
It’s a little weird here in Norway .. we’re moving away from R32 because it’s bad for the environment but the big tanker ships are spewing out refrigeration out to like no tomorrow and all “they” care about is the minisplits 😅
What are moving to after r32?
I've seen ships still using R22, like fishing trawlers have like 4 100 horsepower compressors in the engine room for all the fish freezers. Only newer ones are like R410A.
I’m glad I’m retiring in a few years and taking my 25 years of experience with me. The people that have never touched tools or tried to troubleshoot a piece of equipment are coming up with this stuff.
must've entered the industry at an older age......or are you doing something else ? Ive got almost 20 years in and am not even 40
Thanks for the video very knowledgeable
I've been around long enough to remember the r22 to r410 transition , they said all the same BS back then,just a little less sophisticated. 😂😂😂 And for something that is touted as being a low flammable refrigerant there's sure alot of extra safety procedures involved with these new refrigerants. I also work on residential refrigerators and ice machines which are also already using r600 and r290, but those systems have like 1 ounce of refrigerant. HVAC systems we are talking pounds....I dont worry about 1 oz of semi flammable gas venting in the air, but 6 or 7 lbs?? Yeah, nah.
Do you know why they didn’t just go from R22 straight to R32? Especially if Europes been on it for 20+ years.
The more they change refrigerants, the more screw ups there are by techs which sells more units. Also, the new refrigerants create markets for more units. As for the climate stuff, it's all absolute BS that common man is creating those circumstances. It is corporations that are polluting massively and creating all the circumstances that they term as climate change. Nothing in this capitalistic world is anything but a lie that is intended to generate more money.
And if the leak is inside your plenum on the evaporator coil, it's flooding your entire house every time the blower kicks on. Mmmmm... I love the smell of R22 in the morning! Have your heating and cooling systems inspected frequently. Murica! 🇺🇸
While this change over is BS, the hand wringing over the flammability is a bit over the top given the presence of natural gas in most homes.
Craig can you make a troubleshooting video on Mini Splits. Things to look for and possible issues?
Yes we have lots of troubleshooting videos on Mini Splits and we also have the whole book on Inverter Mini splits on Amazon and at acservicetech.com thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel I’ve watch them all and I own the book. I was hoping for a troubleshooting step by step for a system not working.
We're gonna need a bigger van! 😮
I do appreciate the videos that you make Craig....thank you!
And how much money is generated to make these changes? What do these GWP numbers actually represent? Meanwhile at my local HVAC wholesaler, they have stacks of R-22 still for sale.
Thanks for everything that you do .
im not even doubting the science, it's just the little things like the left handed threads and gray bottles that will get annoying. having to double check your hoses are left handed threads or remembering to bring an adapter. double checking the bottles since all refrigerants are gonna be a gray color soon.
It's so ridiculous
@@tedbell4416 funny how they call it global warming potential, and dont say that it WILL be a cause, but has potential to be a cause. All made up bs
As far as glide is concerned, isn't a piston metering device pretty much a thing of the past except on older units that would be using 410a or 22 that have minimal and no glide. Unless we are getting into the weeds on trouble shooting, we are going to be charging using sub cooling only. Wouldn't we just use the liquid saturated (bubble) almost exclusively?
Well, the service port on the condenser be reversed thread as well ?
Funny when I took the EPA class in 1994 I was told HFc’s were zero ozone depleting. The light just keeps going on.
love your videos. Thanks for all the info.
Perfect, always learn a lot. thanks
Thanks for watching!
Usefull like always!
I love your videos, so much info. Thx
You are so welcome!
Will the new equipment have left hand threads as well?
Great video
Also if these are only mildly flammable and from what I hear it’s almost impossible to ignite, why worry about diluting the air due to a leak?
That way when it does ignite and some will they'll pass the liability and blame on the tech
Great content! The future will come, progress does not.
Thanks Craig
I want to know if Daiken uses gas sensors in their units in Asia.
Thanks Craig. I taken 3 other seminars and this one is probably the best so far. The more I hear about this change the less I feel it's a problem. The main things are more bottles in the truck and more dangerous in your truck if they leak. Good time to quit smoking. The HVAC equipment doesn't seem different at all. The air handlers and furnaces will need a new safety control and leak sensor. I doubt that will work at all. Goodman seems to have already switched to R32 on the condensing units and heat pumps but the indoor units are still non-compliant. Maybe we should add an odor to the refrigerant so you know when it's leaking- not rotten eggs- how about Irish spring.
My biggest concern is how similar the new jugs look. I predict techs installing r32 in 454b systems or vice versa.
Hi Craig. Thank you for this very good information, please if you could inform us more when something new comes up. thanks in advance. Great informative video.
Thanks for watching! Will do!!
Thanks!
Ahh, the good old days. 12, 22 and 502
And R500 too. Carrier used it quite a bit, and was also used for like Thermo-King truck mounted refrigeration units. R23 for ultra low temp stuff. And you missed R11, on old Trane Centrevac low pressure centrifugal chiller systems on 2400/4160 volts :) fun times. My Dad used to use R11 for a lineset flush or evap coil flush after a bad compressor burnout, best solvent for cleanup ever. Too bad it's toxic and super bad for the environment though.
Carrine 7
Will the service port on the condenser be reversed thread as well ?
Where can I buy the left handed a2l adapter?
where are they going to be located on a Gas package unit
What will cause more global warming - the "potential" of R-410a escaping or the structure fires caused by A2L refrigerants escaping? Just wondering.
What is going to happen when those # and red line fade over from the tank?
With these new features on hone systems, I'm sure the initial cost is higher for R32 systems. In addition, I think home owners insurance will increase.
Is it worth getting my universal atm, or wait until after 2025?
thanks
Odd that R-32 isn't available in the US how can we start using it not sold here.
What if the customer still has a standing pilot on the hot water heater?
Do you have any books/literature specific to vrf systems?? specifically dealing with 3 pipe's and branch selectors. is their any extra information needed thatis not in your mini split book
In 10 years, they will find more problems with r32/454b
Definitely
My bet is 2 years or less
They already have with R-1234yf (one component in our new R-454B) in Europe! It contains forever chemical or PFAS. It’s about GDP in the USA.
EPA bureacrats need to have some work.
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity - What is forever chemical?
New tech in the trade “failed refrigerant sensor? Bypassed!”
" Oh shit, it actually reads something called resistance instead of just open/closed...Now I'm in trouble."😂😂😂
Especially when it cost $450 to replace.
Removed or start carrying resistors of the right side to bypass the sensor
There is a lot of movement in Europe with 1234yf because it is on the PFAS list.
Yes I certainly heard that! It will be interesting to see what happens in the US in reference to codes with it in the future.
Don’t worry my friend, DuPont has already secretly developed another refrigerant in preparation for THAT ban.
I am going to wait it out and see how this goes. I think one good thing is it may keep hacks that dont use vacuum pumps or micron gauges for testing from getting away with bad installations. I think they will get oxygen in with the compressor and make an explosive situation
I love your content and i know you have no control over this but i wish you would talk about how ridiculous all this is!!
Great, higher cost, less efficient and flammable!
New refrigerants to save the environment but you can use disposable canisters!? Am I missing something?
the problem with digital gauges is the "sampling" interval/ate. It's to slow to capture "deflections" in pressures due to compressor issues. analog gauges will show you that.
Excelente gracias
Good video !
I love a2l refrigerant new tools new knowledge
Can someone help me. I install gage on high and low and the showing on the gage it very high on both side. Thank you
Excuse me sir I thought we were switching from r32 to 410 which is safer and doesn’t have much flammable things in it ? Most of us have r410 and you’re telling me we’re going back wards ? And isn’t 507c another almost exact as r32 like huh ?
Your thinking of r22
22:00
Thank yall very much for all the awesome input!
This will help me like yall dont even know! Life long values!
God bless! 🙏
So there's no more using staybrite8 soldering with those systems?
shouldnt be using it anyway, but no, i guess unless you purge nitrogen with it, but when you get that far into it, why use staybrite anyway?
Thank YOu
muchas gracias¡¡¡¡¡ por la informacion ,excelente video¡¡¡¡ saludos
Topping off a leaking system with a flammable gas makes as much sense as gassing up my service truck with fuel as gas is leaking on the ground.
Between the 2, I'd rather use 32 as it's a single component refrigerant.....while 454b is an azetropic blend and has a glide. We have already seen these A2L in heavy commercial. 1233zd, 513a, 514a, 1234ze etc etc. HFO and HFC mixtures
Another HVAC professional agrees with you: ruclips.net/video/RQnKPb6i0oI/видео.htmlsi=zXhWKnLUqWlAv-xJ
Thanks for the info
what about RS-53 /470a?
Ammonia will be back before we’re done!
I am waiting for sulphur dioxide to return!
The industry needs to pay for real scientists to check there lies.
Exactly. Just like the tobacco industry did.
Industry is the problem not the techs and service providers the industry
So what happens when there is a leak in the evaporator coil in the heating season 💐
Maybe a burst of heat that you don't want
That's the reason for the sensors. It will cut off your heat in the dead of winter. Bundle up, this new refrigerate is going to be a blast 😅 👍
@@fpitw71
That I like so you can’t just add refrigerant, they have to replace the coil otherwise the heat won’t work🤩$$$$