I have had one of these for nearly a year now and it is great! Big models, small models (I have the 0.25 nozzles as well, E3D nozzles and heaters fit perfectly) and giant models all from one machine. Duel extrusion works really well if you take some time at the start to set it up, don't expect to just print perfect out of the box at this price it still takes some setting up (if you want that go spend $4-5000 on a machine this one starts at $1600, you don't need all the extras but the heated bed is a worthwhile investment) . With duel extrusion for both extruders to purge and do a skirt it is just a setting in S3D, I'm surprised Joel didn't know this he has much more experience than me with S3D. Also you can do duplicate with minimal resetting of the slicer. Formbot used to put a buildtak surface on their older printers and customers complained about it so they give you a clean metal bed with the heated version so you can use the surface of your choice, there are loads of them out there and we all have our own preference.
Thanks for reporting the details about being able to purge and build skirts using both extruders. This has been one of my main concerns! Ihaven't been able to find this info anywhere else!
Love the vids Joel...Like to see more with the formbot and working dual extrusions... I purchased the 400x400x700mm and can't stop using it even if its a toy for my grand daughter....and for those that think it has a lot of problems i would have to differ.....the only time I ever had a problem with mine is when i tried to upgrade to community firmware or upgrade a part then it was a mess to work with...set everything back to factory and haven't had a problem since. Now Formbot just released a version 3 with a lot of great upgrades but only comes in a 400x400x500mm.
I just received my Multoo MT2X and after seeing this video, I'm glad I got that machine. It's far from perfect, but I have it semi-dialed in and it's already mirror and dual color printing. 500X500X800!! It's a monster...
Hi Joel! Yes, ballscrews are better and more accurate and nearly wear-proof. For example, the higher quality CNC routers for the hobbyist will use ballscrews instead of leadscrews. That looks like a nice machine.
This is similar to my experience with the Formbot Raptor, which I selected as my first printer at the end of last year. It does print pretty well out of the box, but there are still some quirks that seem to plague all of the Formbot printers. Fortunately, they have released to source-code so I can slowly fix those issues. You can definitely see the snakeskin/moire on the Om Nom due to the 24V and the stepper drivers they chose. I believe that also has an effect that makes the extrusion slightly inconsistent making it near impossible to get rid of layer zits unless you wipe so much, you get under extrusion on layer starts. Time for some new drivers. With that 2 zone heating bed, it's likely contributing to bed warpage. The bed does kind of suck. It's sufficient but I really want something that can be swapped out. I swapped out the clone hotend with a genuine e3d v6 and would like the option to swap in different surfaces for things like nylon, pom, and PC. Overall, I've learned a TON about 3d printing by working through the issues similar to the T-REX2+. I would never consider a T-REX2+ though until they released the source-code.
I've got a spool holder on my Delta that's a lot like those... the difference being that I have a pair of printed tubes that the bearings poke into, so it doesn't really matter how wide the spool is. Just make sure they're longer than your widest spool.
strangely compelling review considering how reluctant you sounded, I bookmarked the Trex 3 page for the next time I have existential crises and need to go on a shopping spree :)
Those v-wheel rails are probably a good choice for such a long axis, especially when you have two in parallel on a user-assembled machine, where a linear rail setup could bind in a similar machine if there was a bit of a skew. The ballscrews are interesting. I have not tried them on the Z-axis because they are sometimes SO easy to move that they have a tendency for the gantry weight to be able to backdrive the motors if they are not powered on (or the power cuts out), and them and let the gantry drop to the bed. I would be interested to know if that is the case with this printer, of if these screws are tighter/stepper pitch that doesn't let that happen, or of they have some sort of tension adjustment or one-wat ratcheting lockout or brake or similar thing to keep the gantry from dropping
Joel, thank you. No sponsors and feels like the old days! But it’s rushed and not complete. I never wanted the laser crap or high temp etc. but after waiting I think, I’m gonna go with a Prusa MK3 and get the MM upgrade. Thanks
I think you are better off with a Prusa machine, honestly. This beast is neat, but I think there is a bit too much tweaking for me. Also, I have a sponsored video on Sunday. Just letting you know :)
Joel, you might have already covered this topic, but can you do a tutorial on cura (or any slicer for that matter) settings for large low resolution strong prints. I own a CR10S5 (modded w/E3D's Hemera and Volcano) and regularly use a .8mm nozzle - would love to see your results as well as your followers experiences with large functional prints!!
Dual extruder machines are headaches. I have a printrbot plus dual collecting dust and maybe made 4 dual print parts... I feel like the pallet plus and filament mixing is the way forward. $1599 for a tinker machine? Smh
GeoDroidJohn I mostly agree but I would include the Prusa Multi-Material style (single hot end with multiple extruders) as well. The Palette+ is awesome but it can't mix very many different materials. It can bond PLA-TPU but not PETG-TPU or work with TPE (e.g. soft Ninjaflex) at all. Whereas the Prusa MMU can mix those materials and many others. Note: Mixing TPE with other materials is currently not working well because the wipe tower uses a hard-coded speed but that's just a software issue Prusa is working on. Not a physical limitation like with the Palette+.
They maybe are a headache, but if done right, independent extrusion is the way to go. Things that Joel mentioned -- as in profiles and priming are easily fixed with various tricks in S3D -- even S3D skirt for each color is brain dead -- I want to do 2 skirts of each color, but it alternates them which adds extra tool changes. I speak from experience of building a quad independent extruder machine. I have a pallet+ also, and I find the purge blocks to be very wasteful, and not always functional -- transitioning from black to white or red to white requires significant purge amount. If an idex (in my case an iqex) system done right, you can setup gcode to prime each extruder and and be off and running. I am able to print large 4 material/color objects with no regard for type of material I use. I haven't tried mixing flexibles and rigid yet, but will soon. I also don't think Marlin the right firmware for these types of machines. I run my machine on Duet, and there is a lot of ability to build in various features into the firmware so that you don't need to rely on slicer settings. A traditional dual extruder is broken by design. 2 nozzles next 2 each other is not good, oozing, knocking into parts, been there, got the t-shirt -- twice. Moved on.
this will be the first purchase for noonean when we get some dollahs, because being able to print the ligaments inplace 3d for our hands will allow us to do things no one else can do vs adding them later, especailly internally routed ligamenture.
Great review. I see this as a machine with great promise but a lot of things need sorting out. Any printer coming out these days needs good integration with existing slicers, and as few steps as possible to getting the printing started. I agree with you ref 2 extruders; independence is the way to go rather than 2 or more nozzles on the same head. Love my Prusa MMU though!
I was all in on the T-Rex as my first 3D printer, but after watching this review-ish I'm rethinking my decision. Needing something that can print 375x244 was my initial draw, but now I think it's best if I look else where. Back to the drawing board.
Very thorough look at this machine. Love the idea of the IDEX on this, I just think it gets VERY difficult to balance the mechanical precision in the construction of the i3 style vs the physical size to keep the bed level.
The downside of Prusa's method is that it doesn't play well with materials too far apart on their melting point. I don't know if my ideal slicer feature for this exists, but if you could specify different retraction for separate extruders, you could combine far more materials with a printer like this.
Who else keeps wiping their monitor thinking the holes in the wall are dust.... lol Joel I'm about to send you some plaster! Do you plan to review any machines capable of printing high temp materials such as Ultem or PEEK? Anything in the works with Airwolf?
There is no way for an big-size IDEX with y-moving bed - at least whithout many extra code in Marlin and a tiltable x-axis, unless you do without mirror or duplicanion modes. To do ABL you have to correct the distances of both printheads. It can be done, if the x/z conection can rotate on one side and rotate and slide on the other. Than z1 height and z2 height are adjusted so x get tilted to compensate distance to the bed for extruder 1 and 2 at the same moment - and on every movement. Which will be possible if you construct the mechanics and do a lot of programming. Not sure if even 32 bit CPU is effitient enough to do all calculations - but maybe with klipper on a more powerful CPU? So the printbed has to be extremly flat and nearly not bendable. Which means thick and made of fine milled cast aluminum. I think at that size at least 9mm thick. Meaning extremly heavy, so only accelerating slow if you do not want ringing. Which means extremly long printing times. Which makes Mirror and Duplication mode useless. You would be faster to use a light bed and ABL, not using duplication or mirror mode, and printing the objects one after another. Only ways at the moment to use duplication or mirror mode: A smaler buildplate or a cube design, which has no problem with a heavy bed. It is a shame, nearly no one seem to understand the principles of the bed-y-moving design anymore. At the beginning of open source printer developement, many components (like aluminium extrusions) where expensive. The filament available was 2.85mm only. A geared direct extruder was heavy. Printbed was commonly a size of about 16*16 or less. As acelleration and speed on x and y should be the same and movement of x, including x-gantry, in y.direction (classic cube design) would be the limiting factor, on small open-source developement moving y was the cost-effective alternative with faster printing. Since dawn of open-source printers, many things changed - and the engeneers forget about the reasons for movingthe bed in y. First the size was scaled up. 1.75mm filament leads to lighter direct extruders. The use of bowden system reduced weight even more. So the y moving bed had no advantage anymore, exept for very very smal printers. Also cost of components got lower and lower - actualy using y-moving bed instead of a cube might spare less than 20% of the printers cost. Instead of bulding printers as cube now, the bedshaker design is simply scaled up. With all its negative sides. And as the bedshaker design was popular (by the Prusa printers with heavy direct extruder), this design was simply scaled up. (In an engeneering way) nonsense: Combining a light bowden with a 300 by 300 printbed (CR 10). Yes, it was sucessfull and a bestseller. But only about 20-25% more cost - and it would have been much more faster and reliable. Of course only if sold in eqal numbers. This was the moment, marked decission overcome engeneering sense. This printer you show is an extreme evolution in this direction: a very huge bed, overengenieered on expensive parts (spindels) but using a bedshaker design. Constructing a cube and using normal leadscrews (or beltdriven z) would not cost more. But it is so easy simply scale up another design, put some high quality parts like spindles in for better advertising... While on bigger bedshakers you can use thin heatbeds, compensating the lack of flatness and get accaptable quality with maybe accaptable slower acelleration and speed by using ABL, this workarround does simply not work on an big IDEX. You mostly have big prints only from time to time. So duplicate and mirror prints are strong arguments for paying more for an IDEX. And these modes can not compansate for the basic problem of bedshackers, having to minimize bed weight, using ABL. So an IDEX in 400*400 as a bedshaker? Maybe, if you do a very lowcost design, without Mirror or Duplicate mode. But than something expansive like spindles has nothing to do there. A printer if you print a lot big objects - and if you have enough other smaller printers (the heatbed will waste a lot of energy if you use such a big printer for small objects). But best: Forget a bedshaker in this size. Use a cube design. And a perfectly flat thick casted aluminium bed.
After spending 20 plus mins setting the bed levelling, not having a removable print surface so you don't unsettle the bed releasing prints seems a dumb idea.
It would be nice to know your Top 5 Printers and why... maybe even set 3 different videos on Starter Units, Semi Pro Units, and units you think are Professional under $5K...
Thanks Joel, you're certainly looking and sounding more refreshed than the old 'normal'. I have no need for such a beast but it was still interesting. Cheers, JAYTEE
i love it that i can set my ad block to not black AD's on your videos ; ) XD i also looked at a linear 3d printer (only because we have a DMG mori hce 75 Linear CNC center and X_X that thing is CRAZY fast)
I'm glad there are people like you to review these machines. It still floors me that expensive junk is still being sold. They have the mindset that it is okay to ship a poorly made hybrid (inbred) clone of two machines that requires the user to make all these stupid compromises for around 2 grand! It should just work.
12:30 that doesn't look "okay" it looks FREAKING awful! for 1500$ or more specially! the blue still looks bad but "silk" filament has a tenancy to hide flaws so that's probably what's happening i think it's also just the color reflecting the light etc differently? I see flaws on all colors
Wow! Its a heck of a lot of money for something that needs a shed load of work to get a half decent print out of it........in my mind that makes it not worth the expense. You can spen less and get decent prints. Of course I also wonder how often would I need that print volume? I’d print a few Star Wars helmets in full size then I’d be done. I’m sure lots will love it but just as many will hate it. Great review=ish even so, thank you Joel
They legally have to provide you with the firmware. Creality is doing the same thing with their firmware as well which is a blatant violation. Timothy Hoogland with TH3D is trying to implement the resume feature after a power loss but they are refusing to provide him with the source firmware.
Thank you for this review Joel. I am now pretty certain that I will not be buying this printer. Marketing had me thinking it would be easier to operate. So now the question is G-Max or CR10 (first 3d printer, and not wanting to tinker, I just want a big machine that works when I need it to)?
Great stuff, Joel! True review! I think people should send you trinkets to have on your wall for fan mail Friday. Only if they donate. That wall, hehe.
To expand my printlab I was looking into this printer for a long time, but this review makes it a big nope for me. Way too expensive for a system that is not engineered well enough. Thanks for the review Joel!
They say their high temp extruder only goes to 350c. That's not hot enough for PEEK or Ultem. And even if it went higher, the machine isn't enclosed in any way so you couldn't print such materials anyway. The more I read the website the more I think these guys are a bunch of cowboys.
I asked the company exactly what you are saying here. Their reply was that they have never actually printed PEEK on the printer themselves: however, a supplier in China told them it can be done. So urm... yeah... it must be do-able right?!
Hey, what software are u using? cura? repetier? simplify3d? I have the t rex 3 but dont know how to get the printer profile in repetier or cura 4.0. NEED HELP!
Can you take a moment to say why 5 to 6 months ago when you did the om nom, you seemed very favorable to this. Yet this review from a few weeks you seemed to have soured on it. It seems like this review came before the others? If not what changed your mind?
Hi Nerd! If I want to print big carbon fiber parts would you recommend me FORMBOT TREX2+ 3D printer or Creality CR10S5 upgraded with E3D V6 hotend and titan extruder? I think that FORMBOT is better for dual extruder, high temp hot end , dual temperature bed, What do you think?? Thanks for your comments!
Joel, Thank you for the review. I have been considering upgrading to an IDEX type machine. I am trying to decide between the Format TREX2+ and the MakerGear M3. Do you or anyone watching have any experience with the M3? It is quite a bit more money but it seems to lean more toward the professional side.
I wish I had some experience with the M3. Makergear asked me to review the machine when I spoke to them at Bay Area Maker Faire last year, but, they stopped responding to emails.
Yes, I agree, I have this one too , and although I feel this printer is very sturdy and well designed, they put way to much emphasis on protecting the marlin code. I really wish they would release it. Looking to possibly replace it with a panucatt X3 pro with a 40 pin IDX breakout just to gain control over all the features. real pain to keep going back to the vendor for minor changes.
Im considering a "like new" raptor 2+ for about 500usd, 700mm ver. Is this a decent 3d printer to get into 3d printing? See it cost about twice as much new. It has been serviced, new hot end. Not sure if it gott upgraded.. Im looking for large volume printer, limited selection. I looked at creality cr10s5, hard to find. On paper raptor seems to be tad better. Price seems to be fair, and it should be like new. I'm new to 3d printing, looked at getting one for years. I dabbled with old school stuff, like cnc or well. Analog way of manufaktur stuff. My impression it is similar, but it is plastic. And, instead of removing material you add it. Dream would be metal 3d printer, 500x500x500 or something. My knees would buckle if someone came to my door and gave me a industry high end metal 3d printer.. But hey, plastic is ok, i guess. So long my head dont go blank when i get a printer.. Hehe Tnx for any help, or input..
I just got a CR-10S (first printer) and am trying to print a rectangular block with slots on the face, one end is thicker than the other and I have made 5 tries and each have warped on the thinner end. It has been on the bottom side. Is there a fix for this? PLA 205 degree bed 50 degree 15% infillm. masking tape. Symmetrical parts come out fine. Another description of the part is a wedge the bottom is flat and the top is angled, with mounting holes on the face. Each time the flat bottom has curved up on the thinner end.
Hi, can you please explain difference between 2 Individual extruder with Twin extruder? BRESSER T-REX WIFI 3D Printer with Twin Extruder technology AND BRESSER T-REX 2 3D Printer with 2 Extruders. I misunderstand about it. Thank
I really want to try a laser engraving add on to my I3, but I understand you are not interested in it. Maybe you will give it a try one day :) I want a large 3D printer and these reviews are helpful- tanksumuch Joel #nowthatyouarefulltime I expect you to try out the laser engraver (SIC)
I have one on my atom 3d printer. It's barely a toy. (Plus it's a nightmare to import to the U.S.) Laser engravers are great, but you definitely need a real one. Not the little diode one... I wound up getting a 100w CO2 laser, and even that is limited. The real deal lasers are fiber lasers. But expensive.
@Johnathan Battaglia lol... no it is not... you have to coat metal with a spray and even then only the spray will etch... only a fiber laser or industrial laser will bite into metal...
3D Printing Nerd So the duplicate print will start and everything will look fine but after the first layer of each part both of the extruders stop. Then the secondary extruded goes off and starts printing a 3d part that is slightly offset from the part it was just printing for some reason even though there's not a 3rd model is s3d.
Looks like a fun machine Joel - but, as you say, only for those who enjoy tinkering. Way above my pay grade though. It's so good to see you looking well rested! #Highfive
hi joel can you do a vid on making a filament maker so sthat you can grind faild prints or suports and melt it in to filament again becase thare is not a lot of info on and if u have a parts list so that its repeatable it will save u and all 3dprinters a lot of money i have almost 2 spools worth of waste and im finding it hard to make one all the pre bilt machines cost $500 or more so i you can do it for $100 or less it would be amazing
This was a pretty low-effort review. I expected you to come out of the gate with some awesome detailed reviews now that you're full time, and you had this monster with all these extra features, and you just mailed it in. I hope we get an actual review of this machine.
It's a mechanical thing. A leveled bed doesn't stay level forever, and for someone who prints all the things, it's just convenient and time saving to not have to level every time this happens.
Um so I spent some money on a 3d printer from GearBest. Yeah and it sucks it doesn’t work or anything. I have watched so many vids on how to fix it and it still won’t work. Do you know how I could send it back? There service kinda sucks.
Email me joel at the3dprintingnerd dot com with your order details and I'll put you in touch with my contact there. They ARE celebrating Chinese New year right now, so responses may be a bit delayed.
Heh, thanks! I'm trying to space out sponsored videos better, which means having more content scheduled and planned out. It's getting there. Hopefully there will be a Fan Mail Friday tomorrow - a Matterhackers sponsored video is scheduled for Sunday. After that, I have a few project videos. Thanks for sticking with me.
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
I was watching this video and my wife looked at the screen and said: There's no way You will bring this printer into our house! :)
You didnt fix enough of her stuff with 3d printing yet
Wives cost more than 3d printers, lose the wife, afford the printer.
I have had one of these for nearly a year now and it is great! Big models, small models (I have the 0.25 nozzles as well, E3D nozzles and heaters fit perfectly) and giant models all from one machine. Duel extrusion works really well if you take some time at the start to set it up, don't expect to just print perfect out of the box at this price it still takes some setting up (if you want that go spend $4-5000 on a machine this one starts at $1600, you don't need all the extras but the heated bed is a worthwhile investment) . With duel extrusion for both extruders to purge and do a skirt it is just a setting in S3D, I'm surprised Joel didn't know this he has much more experience than me with S3D. Also you can do duplicate with minimal resetting of the slicer.
Formbot used to put a buildtak surface on their older printers and customers complained about it so they give you a clean metal bed with the heated version so you can use the surface of your choice, there are loads of them out there and we all have our own preference.
Thanks for reporting the details about being able to purge and build skirts using both extruders. This has been one of my main concerns! Ihaven't been able to find this info anywhere else!
Oh man, dude! This was soooo enjoying, thank you! Hope the schedule gets better after a while, good luck!
Amazing detailed and honest just the way we love you 😍 Thanks for the shout out you don’t know how much it means ✋
Love the vids Joel...Like to see more with the formbot and working dual extrusions... I purchased the 400x400x700mm and can't stop using it even if its a toy for my grand daughter....and for those that think it has a lot of problems i would have to differ.....the only time I ever had a problem with mine is when i tried to upgrade to community firmware or upgrade a part then it was a mess to work with...set everything back to factory and haven't had a problem since. Now Formbot just released a version 3 with a lot of great upgrades but only comes in a 400x400x500mm.
I just received my Multoo MT2X and after seeing this video, I'm glad I got that machine. It's far from perfect, but I have it semi-dialed in and it's already mirror and dual color printing. 500X500X800!! It's a monster...
Hi Joel! Yes, ballscrews are better and more accurate and nearly wear-proof. For example, the higher quality CNC routers for the hobbyist will use ballscrews instead of leadscrews. That looks like a nice machine.
i’m not sure that’s how printers are made joel....
That blue is absolutely gorgeous. The light reflections are insane!!!! What kind is it? I need to grab some!
This is similar to my experience with the Formbot Raptor, which I selected as my first printer at the end of last year. It does print pretty well out of the box, but there are still some quirks that seem to plague all of the Formbot printers. Fortunately, they have released to source-code so I can slowly fix those issues.
You can definitely see the snakeskin/moire on the Om Nom due to the 24V and the stepper drivers they chose. I believe that also has an effect that makes the extrusion slightly inconsistent making it near impossible to get rid of layer zits unless you wipe so much, you get under extrusion on layer starts. Time for some new drivers.
With that 2 zone heating bed, it's likely contributing to bed warpage. The bed does kind of suck. It's sufficient but I really want something that can be swapped out. I swapped out the clone hotend with a genuine e3d v6 and would like the option to swap in different surfaces for things like nylon, pom, and PC. Overall, I've learned a TON about 3d printing by working through the issues similar to the T-REX2+. I would never consider a T-REX2+ though until they released the source-code.
I've got a spool holder on my Delta that's a lot like those... the difference being that I have a pair of printed tubes that the bearings poke into, so it doesn't really matter how wide the spool is. Just make sure they're longer than your widest spool.
strangely compelling review considering how reluctant you sounded, I bookmarked the Trex 3 page for the next time I have existential crises and need to go on a shopping spree :)
Those v-wheel rails are probably a good choice for such a long axis, especially when you have two in parallel on a user-assembled machine, where a linear rail setup could bind in a similar machine if there was a bit of a skew. The ballscrews are interesting. I have not tried them on the Z-axis because they are sometimes SO easy to move that they have a tendency for the gantry weight to be able to backdrive the motors if they are not powered on (or the power cuts out), and them and let the gantry drop to the bed. I would be interested to know if that is the case with this printer, of if these screws are tighter/stepper pitch that doesn't let that happen, or of they have some sort of tension adjustment or one-wat ratcheting lockout or brake or similar thing to keep the gantry from dropping
Joel, thank you. No sponsors and feels like the old days!
But it’s rushed and not complete. I never wanted the laser crap or high temp etc. but after waiting I think, I’m gonna go with a Prusa MK3 and get the MM upgrade. Thanks
I think you are better off with a Prusa machine, honestly. This beast is neat, but I think there is a bit too much tweaking for me.
Also, I have a sponsored video on Sunday. Just letting you know :)
Joel, you might have already covered this topic, but can you do a tutorial on cura (or any slicer for that matter) settings for large low resolution strong prints. I own a CR10S5 (modded w/E3D's Hemera and Volcano) and regularly use a .8mm nozzle - would love to see your results as well as your followers experiences with large functional prints!!
Dual extruder machines are headaches. I have a printrbot plus dual collecting dust and maybe made 4 dual print parts... I feel like the pallet plus and filament mixing is the way forward. $1599 for a tinker machine? Smh
GeoDroidJohn I mostly agree but I would include the Prusa Multi-Material style (single hot end with multiple extruders) as well. The Palette+ is awesome but it can't mix very many different materials. It can bond PLA-TPU but not PETG-TPU or work with TPE (e.g. soft Ninjaflex) at all. Whereas the Prusa MMU can mix those materials and many others.
Note: Mixing TPE with other materials is currently not working well because the wipe tower uses a hard-coded speed but that's just a software issue Prusa is working on. Not a physical limitation like with the Palette+.
They maybe are a headache, but if done right, independent extrusion is the way to go. Things that Joel mentioned -- as in profiles and priming are easily fixed with various tricks in S3D -- even S3D skirt for each color is brain dead -- I want to do 2 skirts of each color, but it alternates them which adds extra tool changes. I speak from experience of building a quad independent extruder machine. I have a pallet+ also, and I find the purge blocks to be very wasteful, and not always functional -- transitioning from black to white or red to white requires significant purge amount. If an idex (in my case an iqex) system done right, you can setup gcode to prime each extruder and and be off and running. I am able to print large 4 material/color objects with no regard for type of material I use. I haven't tried mixing flexibles and rigid yet, but will soon. I also don't think Marlin the right firmware for these types of machines. I run my machine on Duet, and there is a lot of ability to build in various features into the firmware so that you don't need to rely on slicer settings. A traditional dual extruder is broken by design. 2 nozzles next 2 each other is not good, oozing, knocking into parts, been there, got the t-shirt -- twice. Moved on.
this will be the first purchase for noonean when we get some dollahs, because being able to print the ligaments inplace 3d for our hands will allow us to do things no one else can do vs adding them later, especailly internally routed ligamenture.
Great review. I see this as a machine with great promise but a lot of things need sorting out. Any printer coming out these days needs good integration with existing slicers, and as few steps as possible to getting the printing started. I agree with you ref 2 extruders; independence is the way to go rather than 2 or more nozzles on the same head. Love my Prusa MMU though!
I was all in on the T-Rex as my first 3D printer, but after watching this review-ish I'm rethinking my decision. Needing something that can print 375x244 was my initial draw, but now I think it's best if I look else where. Back to the drawing board.
Your analogy of a super suit with only a bit of instructions reminds me of the greatest American hero tv show
THAT'S WHERE I GOT IT FROM!!!
Hey Joel, "Now that you're full time, I expect..."
You to stay awesome... ;~}
Hahahaha
Yes, this is the one I was waiting for!
Very thorough look at this machine. Love the idea of the IDEX on this, I just think it gets VERY difficult to balance the mechanical precision in the construction of the i3 style vs the physical size to keep the bed level.
Joel: if I can do you can do it
Naomi(sexy cyborg)wu: if I can do it anyone can do it
Me: something fishy is going on here
It would be awesome to see the laser an the high temp extruder in action
The downside of Prusa's method is that it doesn't play well with materials too far apart on their melting point. I don't know if my ideal slicer feature for this exists, but if you could specify different retraction for separate extruders, you could combine far more materials with a printer like this.
Who else keeps wiping their monitor thinking the holes in the wall are dust.... lol Joel I'm about to send you some plaster! Do you plan to review any machines capable of printing high temp materials such as Ultem or PEEK? Anything in the works with Airwolf?
There is no way for an big-size IDEX with y-moving bed - at least whithout many extra code in Marlin and a tiltable x-axis, unless you do without mirror or duplicanion modes. To do ABL you have to correct the distances of both printheads. It can be done, if the x/z conection can rotate on one side and rotate and slide on the other. Than z1 height and z2 height are adjusted so x get tilted to compensate distance to the bed for extruder 1 and 2 at the same moment - and on every movement. Which will be possible if you construct the mechanics and do a lot of programming. Not sure if even 32 bit CPU is effitient enough to do all calculations - but maybe with klipper on a more powerful CPU?
So the printbed has to be extremly flat and nearly not bendable. Which means thick and made of fine milled cast aluminum. I think at that size at least 9mm thick. Meaning extremly heavy, so only accelerating slow if you do not want ringing. Which means extremly long printing times. Which makes Mirror and Duplication mode useless. You would be faster to use a light bed and ABL, not using duplication or mirror mode, and printing the objects one after another.
Only ways at the moment to use duplication or mirror mode: A smaler buildplate or a cube design, which has no problem with a heavy bed.
It is a shame, nearly no one seem to understand the principles of the bed-y-moving design anymore. At the beginning of open source printer developement, many components (like aluminium extrusions) where expensive. The filament available was 2.85mm only. A geared direct extruder was heavy. Printbed was commonly a size of about 16*16 or less. As acelleration and speed on x and y should be the same and movement of x, including x-gantry, in y.direction (classic cube design) would be the limiting factor, on small open-source developement moving y was the cost-effective alternative with faster printing.
Since dawn of open-source printers, many things changed - and the engeneers forget about the reasons for movingthe bed in y.
First the size was scaled up. 1.75mm filament leads to lighter direct extruders. The use of bowden system reduced weight even more. So the y moving bed had no advantage anymore, exept for very very smal printers. Also cost of components got lower and lower - actualy using y-moving bed instead of a cube might spare less than 20% of the printers cost.
Instead of bulding printers as cube now, the bedshaker design is simply scaled up. With all its negative sides. And as the bedshaker design was popular (by the Prusa printers with heavy direct extruder), this design was simply scaled up. (In an engeneering way) nonsense: Combining a light bowden with a 300 by 300 printbed (CR 10). Yes, it was sucessfull and a bestseller. But only about 20-25% more cost - and it would have been much more faster and reliable. Of course only if sold in eqal numbers. This was the moment, marked decission overcome engeneering sense.
This printer you show is an extreme evolution in this direction: a very huge bed, overengenieered on expensive parts (spindels) but using a bedshaker design. Constructing a cube and using normal leadscrews (or beltdriven z) would not cost more. But it is so easy simply scale up another design, put some high quality parts like spindles in for better advertising...
While on bigger bedshakers you can use thin heatbeds, compensating the lack of flatness and get accaptable quality with maybe accaptable slower acelleration and speed by using ABL, this workarround does simply not work on an big IDEX. You mostly have big prints only from time to time. So duplicate and mirror prints are strong arguments for paying more for an IDEX. And these modes can not compansate for the basic problem of bedshackers, having to minimize bed weight, using ABL.
So an IDEX in 400*400 as a bedshaker? Maybe, if you do a very lowcost design, without Mirror or Duplicate mode. But than something expansive like spindles has nothing to do there. A printer if you print a lot big objects - and if you have enough other smaller printers (the heatbed will waste a lot of energy if you use such a big printer for small objects).
But best: Forget a bedshaker in this size. Use a cube design. And a perfectly flat thick casted aluminium bed.
Love your vids, Easy to learn from you.
Looks like a great printer, and not that expensive considering the functions and build volume!
Hrm, thanks for the reviewish. I love the Greatest American Hero comparisons. I used to watch that show.
ABC is rebooting it this fall.
Oh, that's cool to know. I just hope not extra pay to view like that new Star Trek
That's a CBS thing. Should be on normal broadcast for ABC. :)
After spending 20 plus mins setting the bed levelling, not having a removable print surface so you don't unsettle the bed releasing prints seems a dumb idea.
Bless you for saying this.
It would be nice to know your Top 5 Printers and why... maybe even set 3 different videos on Starter Units, Semi Pro Units, and units you think are Professional under $5K...
Please, please, please tell us what that glorious blue satin filament is. Squirrels never looked so good!!!!
That was a Polyalchemy Elixir filament!
when they start selling it for around $200 I'll consider it
Thanks Joel, you're certainly looking and sounding more refreshed than the old 'normal'. I have no need for such a beast but it was still interesting. Cheers, JAYTEE
i love it that i can set my ad block to not black AD's on your videos ; )
XD i also looked at a linear 3d printer (only because we have a DMG mori hce 75 Linear CNC center and X_X that thing is CRAZY fast)
That printer was fun to look at, not really the printer for most people though by the sounds of it.
Joel,
You need to review a really good Delta printer. Check out the Ulitbots D300VS Plus. The best printer you can get in my opinion.
does it print carbon fiber ? at what temp ? dont you need an enclosure for ABS ? for the toxic fumes ?
haha that backstory at the beginning lol
I'm glad there are people like you to review these machines. It still floors me that expensive junk is still being sold. They have the mindset that it is okay to ship a poorly made hybrid (inbred) clone of two machines that requires the user to make all these stupid compromises for around 2 grand! It should just work.
12:30 that doesn't look "okay" it looks FREAKING awful! for 1500$ or more specially!
the blue still looks bad but "silk" filament has a tenancy to hide flaws so that's probably what's happening
i think it's also just the color reflecting the light etc differently? I see flaws on all colors
Wow! Its a heck of a lot of money for something that needs a shed load of work to get a half decent print out of it........in my mind that makes it not worth the expense. You can spen less and get decent prints. Of course I also wonder how often would I need that print volume? I’d print a few Star Wars helmets in full size then I’d be done. I’m sure lots will love it but just as many will hate it. Great review=ish even so, thank you Joel
I know this isn't a drunk review but when I squint my eyes it is.
This also had the perfect amount of small cut aways!
I did really try to keep the cutaways short and to the point and used only when it really called for it, 😂
Sean Connelly lol it's more tasteful now, perfect!
Set the playback speed to .75 and it gets drunker ;)
Here's hoping you can get your hands on an HP Jet Fusion 3D printer
They legally have to provide you with the firmware. Creality is doing the same thing with their firmware as well which is a blatant violation. Timothy Hoogland with TH3D is trying to implement the resume feature after a power loss but they are refusing to provide him with the source firmware.
So far, they have not returned my emails. Ugh.
Thank you for this review Joel. I am now pretty certain that I will not be buying this printer. Marketing had me thinking it would be easier to operate. So now the question is G-Max or CR10 (first 3d printer, and not wanting to tinker, I just want a big machine that works when I need it to)?
Great stuff, Joel! True review!
I think people should send you trinkets to have on your wall for fan mail Friday. Only if they donate.
That wall, hehe.
Any plans to review the TREX 3? Or is it too similar to this printer to bother?
Any chance u have gotten your hands on the T-Rex 3.0?
To expand my printlab I was looking into this printer for a long time, but this review makes it a big nope for me. Way too expensive for a system that is not engineered well enough. Thanks for the review Joel!
HEY, why didn't you say something about using the dual extrusion for removable soluble support material, shezzzzz.
Hi, did you try printing flexible materials like Ninjaflex/ TPU ?
Can you explain to me why Nozzle 1 crashes into Nozzle 2 when Nozzle 2 is selected and I switch to Nozzle 1 in the main menu?
They say their high temp extruder only goes to 350c. That's not hot enough for PEEK or Ultem. And even if it went higher, the machine isn't enclosed in any way so you couldn't print such materials anyway.
The more I read the website the more I think these guys are a bunch of cowboys.
I cannot disagree with you.
I asked the company exactly what you are saying here. Their reply was that they have never actually printed PEEK on the printer themselves: however, a supplier in China told them it can be done.
So urm... yeah... it must be do-able right?!
Hey, what software are u using? cura? repetier? simplify3d? I have the t rex 3 but dont know how to get the printer profile in repetier or cura 4.0. NEED HELP!
I have the exact same shirt from the build video.
Which specific filament did you use for om nom? I love that gradient look!
That's the Stronghero3D filament! ruclips.net/video/OZFntSYOVvs/видео.html
Can you take a moment to say why 5 to 6 months ago when you did the om nom, you seemed very favorable to this. Yet this review from a few weeks you seemed to have soured on it. It seems like this review came before the others? If not what changed your mind?
It sounds like it tries to do everything but get's overwhelmed by it all. IT'S ME IN 3D PRINTER FORMAT
Hi Nerd!
If I want to print big carbon fiber parts would you recommend me FORMBOT TREX2+ 3D printer or Creality CR10S5 upgraded with E3D V6 hotend and titan extruder?
I think that FORMBOT is better for dual extruder, high temp hot end , dual temperature bed, What do you think??
Thanks for your comments!
Joel,
Thank you for the review. I have been considering upgrading to an IDEX type machine. I am trying to decide between the Format TREX2+ and the MakerGear M3.
Do you or anyone watching have any experience with the M3? It is quite a bit more money but it seems to lean more toward the professional side.
I wish I had some experience with the M3. Makergear asked me to review the machine when I spoke to them at Bay Area Maker Faire last year, but, they stopped responding to emails.
For real. STL, plz?
yes agreed
I've been yelling at them to release the firmware for months! I have the 2+ as well. And yes... it's very much a GPL violation :(
Yes, I agree, I have this one too , and although I feel this printer is very sturdy and well designed, they put way to much emphasis on protecting the marlin code. I really wish they would release it. Looking to possibly replace it with a panucatt X3 pro with a 40 pin IDX breakout just to gain control over all the features. real pain to keep going back to the vendor for minor changes.
Im considering a "like new" raptor 2+ for about 500usd, 700mm ver. Is this a decent 3d printer to get into 3d printing? See it cost about twice as much new. It has been serviced, new hot end. Not sure if it gott upgraded.. Im looking for large volume printer, limited selection. I looked at creality cr10s5, hard to find. On paper raptor seems to be tad better. Price seems to be fair, and it should be like new. I'm new to 3d printing, looked at getting one for years. I dabbled with old school stuff, like cnc or well. Analog way of manufaktur stuff. My impression it is similar, but it is plastic. And, instead of removing material you add it. Dream would be metal 3d printer, 500x500x500 or something. My knees would buckle if someone came to my door and gave me a industry high end metal 3d printer.. But hey, plastic is ok, i guess. So long my head dont go blank when i get a printer.. Hehe Tnx for any help, or input..
Would you choose this or a Railcore 300zl. I know the Railcore is single extruder but has speed It's side. Thanks
I just got a CR-10S (first printer) and am trying to print a rectangular block with slots on the face, one end is thicker than the other and I have made 5 tries and each have warped on the thinner end. It has been on the bottom side. Is there a fix for this? PLA 205 degree bed 50 degree 15% infillm. masking tape. Symmetrical parts come out fine. Another description of the part is a wedge the bottom is flat and the top is angled, with mounting holes on the face. Each time the flat bottom has curved up on the thinner end.
I'd love a machine like this. Too bad it costs so much.
Thanks for the review!
Hi, can you please explain difference between 2 Individual extruder with Twin extruder? BRESSER T-REX WIFI 3D Printer with Twin Extruder technology AND BRESSER T-REX 2 3D Printer with 2 Extruders. I misunderstand about it. Thank
You need to become a ball screw expert, it would look good on your CV
TRUTH
Can you please patch those holes in the wall behind you it’s driving me crazy thanks
I was cleaning phone screen few times untill I understood its not my phone:-)))
I have an idea and idex prusa with 2 nozzles per one with a prusa mmu2 through a pallete 3 pro
moon city makes me think back to the astronauts that said the moon sounded hollow
I really want to try a laser engraving add on to my I3, but I understand you are not interested in it. Maybe you will give it a try one day :) I want a large 3D printer and these reviews are helpful- tanksumuch Joel
#nowthatyouarefulltime I expect you to try out the laser engraver (SIC)
Hahahahhaha. Thanks :)
I have one on my atom 3d printer. It's barely a toy. (Plus it's a nightmare to import to the U.S.) Laser engravers are great, but you definitely need a real one. Not the little diode one... I wound up getting a 100w CO2 laser, and even that is limited. The real deal lasers are fiber lasers. But expensive.
@Johnathan Battaglia lol... no it is not... you have to coat metal with a spray and even then only the spray will etch... only a fiber laser or industrial laser will bite into metal...
Faith restored in 3D printing Nerd
Anyway I can get your gcode for the duplicate printing? I keep having troubles with mine, thanks!
What issues are you having?
3D Printing Nerd So the duplicate print will start and everything will look fine but after the first layer of each part both of the extruders stop. Then the secondary extruded goes off and starts printing a 3d part that is slightly offset from the part it was just printing for some reason even though there's not a 3rd model is s3d.
Whoa. That's WEIRD. I would speak to Formbot.
welcome to contact us by service@formbot3d.com
i wonder who is disliking these videos
Doesn't matter. Dislikes are counted the same as likes. It's all engagement.
People that don't like them.
G B broke people who can afford it like me😔😔😓
Illuminati its the only answer who else would dislike this great content
Might be bots
Looks like a fun machine Joel - but, as you say, only for those who enjoy tinkering. Way above my pay grade though.
It's so good to see you looking well rested!
#Highfive
i have a machine from a few years ago, company is gone under, and its super locked down marlin firmware. it blows.
Can your do a review on the Mononprice maker select v2
i want to have this Beast!! i would be an great upgrade instead of my Anet A8 :D
hi joel can you do a vid on making a filament maker so sthat you can grind faild prints or suports and melt it in to filament again becase thare is not a lot of info on and if u have a parts list so that its repeatable it will save u and all 3dprinters a lot of money i have almost 2 spools worth of waste and im finding it hard to make one all the pre bilt machines cost $500 or more so i you can do it for $100 or less it would be amazing
This was a pretty low-effort review. I expected you to come out of the gate with some awesome detailed reviews now that you're full time, and you had this monster with all these extra features, and you just mailed it in. I hope we get an actual review of this machine.
Awesome, thanks! #highfive
How do I become your friend to get hand me downs.
Can you make a video on budget 3D printer
what budget though?
love this
Instead spending so much money on sensors, why don't just level your bed one time ...
It's a mechanical thing. A leveled bed doesn't stay level forever, and for someone who prints all the things, it's just convenient and time saving to not have to level every time this happens.
Sean Connelly a proper bed will hold its level a long time
The only real thing that stands out about the design is...the gantry wobble needs to be subdued with guywires or rods.
Um so I spent some money on a 3d printer from GearBest. Yeah and it sucks it doesn’t work or anything. I have watched so many vids on how to fix it and it still won’t work. Do you know how I could send it back? There service kinda sucks.
Email me joel at the3dprintingnerd dot com with your order details and I'll put you in touch with my contact there. They ARE celebrating Chinese New year right now, so responses may be a bit delayed.
Thank you I just send you an email.
Hey has anyone worked with the Trex 3 yet? I cant figure out the duplicate printing process
Idk seems like a amazing printer I wish I had one haha!
Joe fix the holes in your wall. I get crazy i always think it my screen.:)
It's in the queue!
3D Printing Nerd put some bondo or gum or a nice 3D print ;)
Would be great to have comparison of IDEX and MMU strategy.
IDEX vs MMU vs Palette. And go!
Such comparison would be great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Much better!
Heh, thanks! I'm trying to space out sponsored videos better, which means having more content scheduled and planned out. It's getting there. Hopefully there will be a Fan Mail Friday tomorrow - a Matterhackers sponsored video is scheduled for Sunday. After that, I have a few project videos. Thanks for sticking with me.
3D Printing Nerd You're still awesome Joel!
What did he print? He printed big!
I PRINTED BIG!
I need this.
I NEED IT!!!!
But I'm broke T_T
same lol
Even though it would take some tinkering, the build volume has my interest piqued. Maybe one day when I have a spare $2000.
Awesome!
*but still pricey*
and really cool!
I want that octopus!
Hi