Finally! It’s amazing to see such an experienced engineer with a wealth of experience providing content. Clear and informative and your free music doesn’t want me to gouge my ears out. Subscribed and engaged. Thank you sir
Good video, well done. There are also versions (not from Daikin) that can be used to extract air from wet spaces that work well, particularly in buildings with multiple toilets. They replace traditional extract fans and often work well where space is tight and MHRV isn't workable They're not very expensive. The big problem we've had with heat pump operated HWS is the slow recovery time. The temp difference between the water and refrigerant is necessarily low and they don'r stratify very well so a small draw-off can lower the bulk temperature significantly. They also don't work well with HWS return since the water ingress from the return like exacerbates the lack of stratification.
If you want to save more energy you can get circulation pumps that use a lot less energy than the yellow one you reused. Thanks for a informative video.
We did about ten air source heat pumps to conventional hot water cylinders back in 2005 to council bungalows in a village with no gas and no space for oil tanks. They had immersions as back up. We used seperate electric in line boilers for the radiators. They worked OK. We used early external Trianco Activair pumps and Trianco Aztec in line boilers back then.
By chance, we've ended up with a very similar solution. Bought a house in Ireland with a Kronoterm heat pump hot water cylinder (good) and electric resistance under floor space heating (v.v. expensive). No oil or gas. Solved the space heating expense with an A-to-A LG multi-split system, which we're delighted with. Our cylinder in an airing cupboard (called a "hot press" here in Ireland.) We don't have problems with the noise during the day, but it does stop us from running it at night, and using off-peak electricity. The installation takes air from the two bedrooms and two bathrooms via ducting and exhausts outside. That seems to work fine.
I have had one for the last 7 years and it works just fine and the legionella issue is no problem as there is part of the program that every week the temperature is raised to above 60 'C the cost is about 0.80 p/day and for about 300 lt tank right move Dameon
when you say about 80p a day what is that unit price based on ? eg how much electric is it using each day on average and what type of usage are you having (family of 4 taking showers etc ) really keen to understand how this tech works as I live in the Scottish highlands and have solar and battery storage but need Oil at present for heating and my water but Ive been using my solar to heat the water lately. Looked at Sunamp as an option but maybe this is better ?
@@bobbazley5376 Bob, my suggestion would be to start by looking at the datasheet for the Vaillant Arostor. That will give you a stated "Yearly power consumption" figure in kWh. Then you can work in your kWh cost and go from there. I will do an update video soon once we head into winter which will give you month by month figures. Everyone's experience will vary as we all have different use cases. Bear in mind that the Sunamp is 1:1 efficiency. What is does excel at is being small.
@@bobbazley5376 in the summer they'll remove heat from the interior of the home to heat your water. However in the winter they'll remove heat from your home to heat the water. Then your furnace has to produce heat the heatpump water heater removed. You have two heating systems heating your water in the winter. They eat up more power than an electric water heater in the winter. Someone doesn't understand thermodynamics when they built this
@@Bryan-Hensley i disagree with his as if you vent both pipes out for side for air intake and the cold air being pushed outside then it would make little of no difference to the inside room temp.
@@dameonhill After reading more online about this type of setup i can see it would be excellent performance compared to my Oil boiler as well as being able to utilise my excessive solar production and use it cheaper electric tariff for night nighttime.
Thanks for the vid Dameon, I was just about to pull the trigger on a Mixergy tank, but this makes much more sense. I also run the same Daikin Multi-split air/air system as you in 9 rooms, and have 11kWp solar and Tesla battery to power it all. What made you choose the Daikin M HW tank instead of the Vaillant Arostor, as specs look very similar? Many thanks.
If you had more solar, would you have considered tankless systems to heat your water? If yes, would you design >2 bathrooms on a stand-alone basis. I have plenty of solar power and therefore considering running a single cold water + power to each bathroom location from the plant room. Grateful for your thoughts.
Looking forward to seeing more on the multi split as we are about to have a similar system installed. At the moment we are keeping our gas combi for water and backup. These heat pump water systems are very interesting and offer flexibility as a stand alone option to reduce our carbon output further.
That system heats the air which is okay a better system is to use flooring that warms up. Hey buddy in Plymouth used a heat pump to heat the floor in his garage so it is a battery cuz the floor holds the heat and then the heat is on the lower level warming up the coldest part of the room or in his case a humongous Barn.
Heat rises, so a radiant floor is naturally going to give a more even temperature than having heat delivered high up to one spot in a room and having to be blown (forced) down and around the room.
Thanks for posting the video. I would like to know what the COP is in the winter months when its -2C outside. Does the COP drop significantly and what to?
It really does provide good hot water for very little energy. Coupled with the ability to control when it turns on to make use of excess PV generation or off peak tariffs, it really is ideal for most cases. The only potential drawbacks would be the space it needs and the noise that that it generates
@@Bryan-Hensley Taking the air inlet from the habitable or near-habitable space would never be recommended in the winter for this very reason. However taking the air from a loft space in the non-heating months may be ideal (providing it is otherwise well ventilated and there are no considerations to make for ventilation of gas appliances for example). The manufacturers show lots of different variations in their manuals on air inlet and exhaust configurations including the use of diverter valves for summer/winter configurations. Alternatively you can just vent to and from outside.
@@Bryan-Hensley Yes, hot gas defrost is set as standard. You can change the parameters in the commissioning setup - e.g. you can turn off hot gas defrost and have the unit stop to defrost or alternately you can specify electrical backup defrost. The former would be slower, the latter quicker but less efficient. The point being that it is configurable if needed. There is a lot of configuration in the Daikin.
Just wondering if there was any news on the Daikin. Multi-split hot water solution available in the uk yet? I’ve got a granny annexe that I’m putting air2air in but still need a small hot water solution for a bathroom and kitchenette
@@tiepup We often do installs in spaces like this. Basic insulation and some monitoring and that's all it takes. You only need to see the thousands of external oil boilers out in the countryside to see how this is possible (they have 10mm of foil insulation!). Combi's were great. I have installed many, much to the pleasure of homeowners who liberated the airing cupboard space to add a shower in the corner of the bathroom. However, there are always solutions where space is at a premium. For example - retain the combi for hot water purposes and go air to air for the heating and cooling.
@@tiepup In a shed properly insulated it would be OK, but you said a lean to. If you did that round here on any of the exposed farms in the Dales it would freeze. It happened in December 2010 I can assure you as I was called out to a few that had frozen solid inside houses and not even on the tops, some were in villages. I don't just mean only header tanks in lofts either, I saw split cylinders as well. We havn't really had a hard winter since then. Most systems would have a frost stat, but that isn't going to work if the boiler has failed or the oil has crystallised because of a bit of water contamination in the filter and won't flow. They all turned into insurance jobs as when the ice melted the water poured out everywhere. You can't drain down ice 😕
Shame you couldn't pull the inlet air from the loft space - would come in at 40c in summer and would also get some pre-heat in winter (assuming you have a non-warm roof design)
Pedantic point. At 8:56. The fused spur switch in the dado trunking. The cable in and cable out should have been only from the back, with the output via a gland at the bottom of the dado trunking. Then it would look much more professional. ;)
Is this really much more efficient than straight electric water heaters, considering it needs to reheat/maintain to an unnecessarily high temperature a whole lot of water that's not being immediately used? (apart from the other issues like space, noise, ventilation, risk of microbe growth, etc) I think heat pumps have their uses, such as air-to-air AC type units (in case simpler alternatives like far infrared heating panels don't work). But for 'hot water' (only needs to be about 25-30° so not really so hot) I think this is a bit of overkill.
Would the Daikin split system with DHW option recover heat when the indoor units are in cooling mode? I've seen some desuperheater products in the US that use air cons to heat up their swimming pools. Probably won't be a VRV type heat recovery system as those are quite expensive.
Well, this is an air source heat pump (ASHP), but you mean an ASHP for heating. While it would be possible to use a heating ASHP (which would typically have a flow temperature of 40C) to pre-heat the water coming in from the mains supply, you would need a heat exchanger of some sort to do this; using an unvented indirect cylinder rather than a buffer tank/volumiser might work for this. I am inclined to think that you would only get a very small increase in efficiency, and this would take a long time to pay off the extra cost of the heat exchanger and plumbing.
@@tlangdon12 Thanks. I'm looking to decarbonise, and I was looking at moving to a heat pump eventually The SCOP of these are only around 3 though, compared to a regular heat pump?
Could you please tell us the product code or product name of the European Daikin cylinder that can be connected to a MXM multisplit outdoor unit? Do you know if it can heat water while some of the indoor units are in cooling mode in the summer? Many thanks in advance!
Thanks for the very informative videos, I am looking to do hot water only for the first phase and then air to air for heating/ cooling. I do like your Daikin cylinder, have you any news when you can install in uk customer premises yet? Thank you Paul
See a lot of videos on people making solar heaters from cans and Perspex over the top, utilising the sun to hear the air flowing through the tubes (cans). I have always wondered about using something like this for something like this, raising the temperature of the incoming air would theoretically make the unit more efficient.
Absolutely right. The higher the ambient temperarure, the higher the unit efficiency. You could play around with where you take the air from. For example, a loft space in summer would be perfect. To give you an example: the units' stated COP with an ambient air inlet temperature of 7°C is 3.38. At 14°C it is 3.59. Both with a reference hot water temperature of 53°C. Obviously the higher the ambient temperature and the lower the hot water storage temperature, the lower the temperature differential and the higher the efficiency.
Any word on that multi split A2A with water as well? noticed you mentioned it in aa different video and I think that would be a great solution for me, As I dont have basement or garage.
As you say, you can add a small monobloc to do your hot water on the Mixergy later. The heat pump cylinders such as the Daikin Altherma M, Vaillant aroSTOR, Dimplex Edel etc. just offer a neat packaged system. Are you utilising the Mixergy with PV generation?
@@dameonhill not yet, my installer is awaiting delivery. But I will be. At the moment I have it set to charge from octopus go overnight, gas system boiler for top ups and temperature maintenance after the sun goes down, so at least if the tank does need to top up during the day it'll at least be still offset a bit by whatever excess solar is available. I'm very keen to get the solar diverter before proper winter but it's not looking good. :(
This is very much horses for courses, is it not? If you had battery storage and 25kWp solar (sort of negates the COP), and four bathrooms to service with hot water, wouldn't a single cold water pipe to each and a tankless set-up that suits the bathroom make more sense?
Ahh yes, that’s a very good point. I should have mentioned that heat pump cylinders have a disinfection cycle which operates on a scheduled basis usually once a week. Typically it raises the temperature to 60C for around 30 minutes depending on how it is set up. I’ll be putting out a Vaillant AROStor video tomorrow so I’ll be sure to mention this feature in the final scenes 👍
@@dameonhill Is a legonella cycle only needed on stored hot water? So if using a heat store and heat exchanger there is no stored hot water and no risk of legonella?
Oh that's something that's going to cause issues. You know there's going to be some that's not raising the temperature due to mechanical, electronics or programming.
@@Bryan-Hensley legionella is not a huge problem if you use your hot water daily. It is if water use is scarce with frequent days of not use at temperatures lower than 60C so just warm water sitting in a tank woth no exchange.
@@nerfinator03 I live alone. And go camping quite often. There is plenty of days my hot water isn't used. And there's plenty of people like me. In fact there's about 300 goes camping with me or me with them.. something like that.
Been looking into these but still quite expensive for my taste, about 3 grand here vs like $600 for en electric element one or 1 grand for gas. I have a gas one now that is due to be replaced but they are so inefficient (around 40%) I'm actually thinking of just going straight electric. I will insulate it very well and I figure the heat retention will be super well. Should be able to get away running it only at night when the hydro is cheaper. I do like the idea of these heat pump ones though, I hope they eventually get cheaper.
Why do people who install heat pumps always seem to have a huge water cylinder? Unless someone has a bath every day no one needs much hot water - showers are about the only thing and a simple 10.5 kw electric shower does the job. Big waste of space and so much pipework for no reason.
Hi You say it consumes about 400W this is obviously not continuous as there will be a duty cycle and dependent on hot water use could you give an estimate of how many kwh per day used Regards Zed
Great video and answered a few questions I already had on the cylinders. With regards to your Daikin air to air, would the Easyzone system work for bedrooms rather than individual wall mounted units? I'm wondering if it would work in my home and make use of dead loft space.
I really like the EasyZone system but have to admit that I haven't fitted one. I did think about using it upstairs in my own house but I have a very small loft with poor access. I do plan on getting hold of a system to try and will do some content on it. Bear in mind you can also get low level wall mounted units, both concealed and surface mounted.
I was going to type this, and then I found your comment. I do think he is putting his family at danger at 51 degrees Celsius. But perhaps he forgot to mention he IS heating it up with a heat coil once every XX days.
To protect against legionella all units have an anti-legionella cycle program. By default the Daikin EKHHE heats the water to 75°C at 11pm once every 14 days and holds it there for 30 minutes. The temperature, duration and starting hour can be changed in the parameters menu. The integrated heat pump will take it to 62°C unaided and then the booster heater will take over for whatever the remaining uplift is - e.g. 62 to 75°C. The Vaillant aroSTOR offers a similar cycle and similar adjustment.
@@dameonhill thanks for this ,your heat pump must be a lot better than the ones our local council uses as their ones only heat the water to about 55c according to my daughter who works in the office over seeing them
The problem with these units is that they are not usable on low budget solar low budget solar since Europe uses 240 volts its is but in North America with our 120/240 volt split phase system they only come in 240 volt and in our area our water eats steel so it would put holes in the tank in less than 10 years so it wouldn't pay for itself I've only found one unit that would solve both problems but it's not able to be installed by a handy person which makes it to expensive
@@willembos8367 with low budget solar power we buy a 12 volt 2000 watt 120vilt pure sine Wave inverter a mppt control and a few lead, acid batteries and 200 watts of solar panels all under 2000 $ to to have the ability to go split phase 120/240 I have to buy a. 4000 watt 120/240 volt split phase inverter that'needs 24 Volt or higher battery system that raises the price up to eight thousand dollars and being low income I'm on senior pension so I can't borrow so it's cash and credit card at 20% so that's out except for low budget solar once I'm off grid then I can put the 180$ I pay for power to my credit cards and in a year I've paid for my system and then I can start to upgrade buying more panels and batteries as I can afford and I can even go lithium battery if they ever bring out a heat pump dryer and hot water tank that's can be run on 120 volts then those of us with low budget solar power 120 volt systems can buy them after all even if I have to shut off a few circuits while I heat my water or dry a load of clothes it may be a nuisance but it's doable and if it's a possibility that they might bring out 120 volt heat pump dryer and hot water tank I may pay a bit more and go to a 3000 Watt inverter with the heat pump water tank I've tried to find out if just the electric elements are 220 I can do without the back up if I run out of hot water I can wait until the heat pump makes more
In our area Alberta Canada our big home reno stores sell a different make same idea for around 2000 dollars and it's easy to install by anyone handy at doing their own repairs but I want to go low budget solar and unless I go ftom 2000 dollars of solar to 10 grand I can't power it and the only one which can be used on low budget solar has to be installed by their dealer installer again very expensive
Finally! It’s amazing to see such an experienced engineer with a wealth of experience providing content. Clear and informative and your free music doesn’t want me to gouge my ears out. Subscribed and engaged. Thank you sir
Good video, well done. There are also versions (not from Daikin) that can be used to extract air from wet spaces that work well, particularly in buildings with multiple toilets. They replace traditional extract fans and often work well where space is tight and MHRV isn't workable They're not very expensive.
The big problem we've had with heat pump operated HWS is the slow recovery time. The temp difference between the water and refrigerant is necessarily low and they don'r stratify very well so a small draw-off can lower the bulk temperature significantly. They also don't work well with HWS return since the water ingress from the return like exacerbates the lack of stratification.
If you want to save more energy you can get circulation pumps that use a lot less energy than the yellow one you reused. Thanks for a informative video.
We did about ten air source heat pumps to conventional hot water cylinders back in 2005 to council bungalows in a village with no gas and no space for oil tanks. They had immersions as back up. We used seperate electric in line boilers for the radiators. They worked OK. We used early external Trianco Activair pumps and Trianco Aztec in line boilers back then.
By chance, we've ended up with a very similar solution. Bought a house in Ireland with a Kronoterm heat pump hot water cylinder (good) and electric resistance under floor space heating (v.v. expensive). No oil or gas. Solved the space heating expense with an A-to-A LG multi-split system, which we're delighted with. Our cylinder in an airing cupboard (called a "hot press" here in Ireland.) We don't have problems with the noise during the day, but it does stop us from running it at night, and using off-peak electricity. The installation takes air from the two bedrooms and two bathrooms via ducting and exhausts outside. That seems to work fine.
I have had one for the last 7 years and it works just fine and the legionella issue is no problem as there is part of the program that every week the temperature is raised to above 60 'C the cost is about 0.80 p/day and for about 300 lt tank right move Dameon
when you say about 80p a day what is that unit price based on ? eg how much electric is it using each day on average and what type of usage are you having (family of 4 taking showers etc ) really keen to understand how this tech works as I live in the Scottish highlands and have solar and battery storage but need Oil at present for heating and my water but Ive been using my solar to heat the water lately. Looked at Sunamp as an option but maybe this is better ?
@@bobbazley5376 Bob, my suggestion would be to start by looking at the datasheet for the Vaillant Arostor. That will give you a stated "Yearly power consumption" figure in kWh. Then you can work in your kWh cost and go from there. I will do an update video soon once we head into winter which will give you month by month figures. Everyone's experience will vary as we all have different use cases. Bear in mind that the Sunamp is 1:1 efficiency. What is does excel at is being small.
@@bobbazley5376 in the summer they'll remove heat from the interior of the home to heat your water. However in the winter they'll remove heat from your home to heat the water. Then your furnace has to produce heat the heatpump water heater removed. You have two heating systems heating your water in the winter. They eat up more power than an electric water heater in the winter. Someone doesn't understand thermodynamics when they built this
@@Bryan-Hensley i disagree with his as if you vent both pipes out for side for air intake and the cold air being pushed outside then it would make little of no difference to the inside room temp.
@@dameonhill After reading more online about this type of setup i can see it would be excellent performance compared to my Oil boiler as well as being able to utilise my excessive solar production and use it cheaper electric tariff for night nighttime.
Thanks for the vid Dameon, I was just about to pull the trigger on a Mixergy tank, but this makes much more sense. I also run the same Daikin Multi-split air/air system as you in 9 rooms, and have 11kWp solar and Tesla battery to power it all. What made you choose the Daikin M HW tank instead of the Vaillant Arostor, as specs look very similar? Many thanks.
If you had more solar, would you have considered tankless systems to heat your water? If yes, would you design >2 bathrooms on a stand-alone basis. I have plenty of solar power and therefore considering running a single cold water + power to each bathroom location from the plant room. Grateful for your thoughts.
Looking forward to seeing more on the multi split as we are about to have a similar system installed. At the moment we are keeping our gas combi for water and backup. These heat pump water systems are very interesting and offer flexibility as a stand alone option to reduce our carbon output further.
"Or approximately one half horse power"! ALOL Great Install!
I’ve been looking for a review video like this by someone in the uk. It’s good to hear. I’m looking at installing the Vaillant at home.
Fair play brilliant set up. Looks like a great company you've set up there too
That system heats the air which is okay a better system is to use flooring that warms up.
Hey buddy in Plymouth used a heat pump to heat the floor in his garage so it is a battery cuz the floor holds the heat and then the heat is on the lower level warming up the coldest part of the room or in his case a humongous Barn.
Heat rises, so a radiant floor is naturally going to give a more even temperature than having heat delivered high up to one spot in a room and having to be blown (forced) down and around the room.
Thanks for posting the video. I would like to know what the COP is in the winter months when its -2C outside. Does the COP drop significantly and what to?
Great video. Very interesting unit and perfect for a lot of use cases. Amazing that it's only 400 ish watts 👌
It really does provide good hot water for very little energy. Coupled with the ability to control when it turns on to make use of excess PV generation or off peak tariffs, it really is ideal for most cases. The only potential drawbacks would be the space it needs and the noise that that it generates
@@dameonhillexcept winter when it's removing heat from the home and the home's heating system has to replace that heat.
@@Bryan-Hensley Taking the air inlet from the habitable or near-habitable space would never be recommended in the winter for this very reason. However taking the air from a loft space in the non-heating months may be ideal (providing it is otherwise well ventilated and there are no considerations to make for ventilation of gas appliances for example). The manufacturers show lots of different variations in their manuals on air inlet and exhaust configurations including the use of diverter valves for summer/winter configurations. Alternatively you can just vent to and from outside.
@@dameonhill they don't have the ability to defrost themselves do they?
@@Bryan-Hensley Yes, hot gas defrost is set as standard. You can change the parameters in the commissioning setup - e.g. you can turn off hot gas defrost and have the unit stop to defrost or alternately you can specify electrical backup defrost. The former would be slower, the latter quicker but less efficient. The point being that it is configurable if needed. There is a lot of configuration in the Daikin.
Very good upload mate.
That’s the reason for the Bach up element, no doubt there’s a program to heat once a week or so to over 60* c.
Just wondering if there was any news on the Daikin. Multi-split hot water solution available in the uk yet? I’ve got a granny annexe that I’m putting air2air in but still need a small hot water solution for a bathroom and kitchenette
A lot of modern housing were built to accommodate combi's and therefore do not have the space for DHW cylinders.
@@tiepup The obvious problem with that is risk of the cylinder freezing.
@@tiepup We often do installs in spaces like this. Basic insulation and some monitoring and that's all it takes. You only need to see the thousands of external oil boilers out in the countryside to see how this is possible (they have 10mm of foil insulation!). Combi's were great. I have installed many, much to the pleasure of homeowners who liberated the airing cupboard space to add a shower in the corner of the bathroom. However, there are always solutions where space is at a premium. For example - retain the combi for hot water purposes and go air to air for the heating and cooling.
@@tiepup In a shed properly insulated it would be OK, but you said a lean to. If you did that round here on any of the exposed farms in the Dales it would freeze. It happened in December 2010 I can assure you as I was called out to a few that had frozen solid inside houses and not even on the tops, some were in villages. I don't just mean only header tanks in lofts either, I saw split cylinders as well. We havn't really had a hard winter since then. Most systems would have a frost stat, but that isn't going to work if the boiler has failed or the oil has crystallised because of a bit of water contamination in the filter and won't flow. They all turned into insurance jobs as when the ice melted the water poured out everywhere. You can't drain down ice 😕
Do you know what the COP goes down to in winter?
Hot water heat pumps are used a lot in Florida. Putting them in our new shop and my new house. Our sales guy has one too.
Great install and impressive insulation
Shame you couldn't pull the inlet air from the loft space - would come in at 40c in summer and would also get some pre-heat in winter (assuming you have a non-warm roof design)
Pedantic point. At 8:56. The fused spur switch in the dado trunking. The cable in and cable out should have been only from the back, with the output via a gland at the bottom of the dado trunking. Then it would look much more professional. ;)
Is this really much more efficient than straight electric water heaters, considering it needs to reheat/maintain to an unnecessarily high temperature a whole lot of water that's not being immediately used? (apart from the other issues like space, noise, ventilation, risk of microbe growth, etc)
I think heat pumps have their uses, such as air-to-air AC type units (in case simpler alternatives like far infrared heating panels don't work). But for 'hot water' (only needs to be about 25-30° so not really so hot) I think this is a bit of overkill.
Would the Daikin split system with DHW option recover heat when the indoor units are in cooling mode? I've seen some desuperheater products in the US that use air cons to heat up their swimming pools. Probably won't be a VRV type heat recovery system as those are quite expensive.
Don’t count on cooling much with this unit but it’s better than nothing if you don’t have AC at all I suppose.
Great video!
Can these work with a solar diverter (iBoost/Eddi) to soak up excess generation from solar PV panels?
Could this be even cheaper if you connected it, into an air source heat pump?
Well, this is an air source heat pump (ASHP), but you mean an ASHP for heating. While it would be possible to use a heating ASHP (which would typically have a flow temperature of 40C) to pre-heat the water coming in from the mains supply, you would need a heat exchanger of some sort to do this; using an unvented indirect cylinder rather than a buffer tank/volumiser might work for this. I am inclined to think that you would only get a very small increase in efficiency, and this would take a long time to pay off the extra cost of the heat exchanger and plumbing.
@@tlangdon12 Thanks. I'm looking to decarbonise, and I was looking at moving to a heat pump eventually
The SCOP of these are only around 3 though, compared to a regular heat pump?
Could you please tell us the product code or product name of the European Daikin cylinder that can be connected to a MXM multisplit outdoor unit?
Do you know if it can heat water while some of the indoor units are in cooling mode in the summer?
Many thanks in advance!
Thanks for the very informative videos, I am looking to do hot water only for the first phase and then air to air for heating/ cooling. I do like your Daikin cylinder, have you any news when you can install in uk customer premises yet? Thank you Paul
See a lot of videos on people making solar heaters from cans and Perspex over the top, utilising the sun to hear the air flowing through the tubes (cans). I have always wondered about using something like this for something like this, raising the temperature of the incoming air would theoretically make the unit more efficient.
Absolutely right. The higher the ambient temperarure, the higher the unit efficiency. You could play around with where you take the air from. For example, a loft space in summer would be perfect. To give you an example: the units' stated COP with an ambient air inlet temperature of 7°C is 3.38. At 14°C it is 3.59. Both with a reference hot water temperature of 53°C. Obviously the higher the ambient temperature and the lower the hot water storage temperature, the lower the temperature differential and the higher the efficiency.
How feasible would it be to route the exhaust from a MEV to supplement the incoming ambient air?
Any word on that multi split A2A with water as well? noticed you mentioned it in aa different video and I think that would be a great solution for me, As I dont have basement or garage.
Am now wondering if I bought a mixergy tank prematurely lol (though they are great and can take a heat plate for a standard heat pump later)
As you say, you can add a small monobloc to do your hot water on the Mixergy later. The heat pump cylinders such as the Daikin Altherma M, Vaillant aroSTOR, Dimplex Edel etc. just offer a neat packaged system. Are you utilising the Mixergy with PV generation?
@@dameonhill not yet, my installer is awaiting delivery. But I will be. At the moment I have it set to charge from octopus go overnight, gas system boiler for top ups and temperature maintenance after the sun goes down, so at least if the tank does need to top up during the day it'll at least be still offset a bit by whatever excess solar is available.
I'm very keen to get the solar diverter before proper winter but it's not looking good. :(
@@dameonhill Hmm. I guess I'd use this if I had a multi split only?
Otherwise, a regular unvented one would be good?
This is very much horses for courses, is it not? If you had battery storage and 25kWp solar (sort of negates the COP), and four bathrooms to service with hot water, wouldn't a single cold water pipe to each and a tankless set-up that suits the bathroom make more sense?
48 degrees? Isn't that below the recommended temperature to keep legonella at bay?
Ahh yes, that’s a very good point. I should have mentioned that heat pump cylinders have a disinfection cycle which operates on a scheduled basis usually once a week. Typically it raises the temperature to 60C for around 30 minutes depending on how it is set up. I’ll be putting out a Vaillant AROStor video tomorrow so I’ll be sure to mention this feature in the final scenes 👍
@@dameonhill Is a legonella cycle only needed on stored hot water? So if using a heat store and heat exchanger there is no stored hot water and no risk of legonella?
Oh that's something that's going to cause issues. You know there's going to be some that's not raising the temperature due to mechanical, electronics or programming.
@@Bryan-Hensley legionella is not a huge problem if you use your hot water daily. It is if water use is scarce with frequent days of not use at temperatures lower than 60C so just warm water sitting in a tank woth no exchange.
@@nerfinator03 I live alone. And go camping quite often. There is plenty of days my hot water isn't used. And there's plenty of people like me. In fact there's about 300 goes camping with me or me with them.. something like that.
Been looking into these but still quite expensive for my taste, about 3 grand here vs like $600 for en electric element one or 1 grand for gas. I have a gas one now that is due to be replaced but they are so inefficient (around 40%) I'm actually thinking of just going straight electric. I will insulate it very well and I figure the heat retention will be super well. Should be able to get away running it only at night when the hydro is cheaper. I do like the idea of these heat pump ones though, I hope they eventually get cheaper.
In the US they're about $1000 - which is what they should come down to given they are effectively fridges with water instead of air.
Why do people who install heat pumps always seem to have a huge water cylinder? Unless someone has a bath every day no one needs much hot water - showers are about the only thing and a simple 10.5 kw electric shower does the job. Big waste of space and so much pipework for no reason.
Hi
You say it consumes about 400W this is obviously not continuous as there will be a duty cycle and dependent on hot water use could you give an estimate of how many kwh per day used
Regards
Zed
Great video and answered a few questions I already had on the cylinders.
With regards to your Daikin air to air, would the Easyzone system work for bedrooms rather than individual wall mounted units? I'm wondering if it would work in my home and make use of dead loft space.
I really like the EasyZone system but have to admit that I haven't fitted one. I did think about using it upstairs in my own house but I have a very small loft with poor access. I do plan on getting hold of a system to try and will do some content on it. Bear in mind you can also get low level wall mounted units, both concealed and surface mounted.
Great video, would / are they suitable for a loft ? (Regarding noise )
Is it feasible to install in loft and vent in / out through roof ?
How much to install one . I have purchased a 100 little one similar to that just need someone to fit it for me .
Why didn’t you loop the heat pipe return through the second coil to maximise heat extraction ?
Which heat pipe do you mean?
48C Aren’t you worried about legionella?
All the units of this type on the market use the immersion heater for a 60 deg. C legionella-killing cycle once a week.
@@mikekelly5869 He should have mentioned that, currently his talk shows clearly it never (5 to 6 weeks) went over 51 to 54 degree.
@@deslomeslager Yep, you're right, it's more important than many people think and lots of people don't know about it at all.
Does the water not need to be stored at 60 degrees to combat legionella?
I was going to type this, and then I found your comment. I do think he is putting his family at danger at 51 degrees Celsius. But perhaps he forgot to mention he IS heating it up with a heat coil once every XX days.
domestic legionella problems aren't that common. aslong as hot water is replaced in the cylinderbregularly.
This heat pump cylinder has a disinfection cycle that raises the temperature of the water to 60C using the backup electric heater once every week.
Great video ❤
Great
How often do you heat your water up to 60c
To protect against legionella all units have an anti-legionella cycle program. By default the Daikin EKHHE heats the water to 75°C at 11pm once every 14 days and holds it there for 30 minutes. The temperature, duration and starting hour can be changed in the parameters menu. The integrated heat pump will take it to 62°C unaided and then the booster heater will take over for whatever the remaining uplift is - e.g. 62 to 75°C.
The Vaillant aroSTOR offers a similar cycle and similar adjustment.
@@dameonhill thanks for this ,your heat pump must be a lot better than the ones our local council uses as their ones only heat the water to about 55c according to my daughter who works in the office over seeing them
The problem with these units is that they are not usable on low budget solar low budget solar since Europe uses 240 volts its is but in North America with our 120/240 volt split phase system they only come in 240 volt and in our area our water eats steel so it would put holes in the tank in less than 10 years so it wouldn't pay for itself I've only found one unit that would solve both problems but it's not able to be installed by a handy person which makes it to expensive
What are you saying??
@@willembos8367 with low budget solar power we buy a 12 volt 2000 watt 120vilt pure sine Wave inverter a mppt control and a few lead, acid batteries and 200 watts of solar panels all under 2000 $ to to have the ability to go split phase 120/240 I have to buy a. 4000 watt 120/240 volt split phase inverter that'needs 24 Volt or higher battery system that raises the price up to eight thousand dollars and being low income I'm on senior pension so I can't borrow so it's cash and credit card at 20% so that's out except for low budget solar once I'm off grid then I can put the 180$ I pay for power to my credit cards and in a year I've paid for my system and then I can start to upgrade buying more panels and batteries as I can afford and I can even go lithium battery if they ever bring out a heat pump dryer and hot water tank that's can be run on 120 volts then those of us with low budget solar power 120 volt systems can buy them after all even if I have to shut off a few circuits while I heat my water or dry a load of clothes it may be a nuisance but it's doable and if it's a possibility that they might bring out 120 volt heat pump dryer and hot water tank I may pay a bit more and go to a 3000 Watt inverter with the heat pump water tank I've tried to find out if just the electric elements are 220 I can do without the back up if I run out of hot water I can wait until the heat pump makes more
@@douglaswindsor120 ahhh, that makes sense, here in Europe its completely different.
So how much did it cost to buy?
The larger or the two Vaillant aroSTOR cylinders is around £2300 depending on where you buy from.
In our area Alberta Canada our big home reno stores sell a different make same idea for around 2000 dollars and it's easy to install by anyone handy at doing their own repairs but I want to go low budget solar and unless I go ftom 2000 dollars of solar to 10 grand I can't power it and the only one which can be used on low budget solar has to be installed by their dealer installer again very expensive
Good video which doesn't need the annoying music.
take away heating element and see how efficient this system is😀