All About Heat Pump Hot Water Systems | Same Day Hot Water
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- Опубликовано: 6 ноя 2022
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Dude that was SUPER informative. This is the best of what RUclips offers. Very well informed, well presented expert advice/information on niche topics. Well done mate.
AMAZING information! on frikken complicated subject... I will never look at hot water the same way again - THANK YOU HEAPS ⭐
Great video, mate. Exactly the type of honest information I was looking for all bundled into one presentation.
This has performed exactly as desired ruclips.net/user/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 . Basically, instant hot water instead of waiting up to two minutes as it was before. I have had this installed almost exactly one year now and just replaced the anode which is pictured. I pulled it out at six months and cleaned the heating element and removed debris. I would recommend a cleaning every six months and an anode replacement yearly. A mild citric acid and water solution soak really helps clean the heating element and tank. It must be fully disassembled to do the cleaning and that is not difficult but could have been made easier with a couple of design changes but no big deal.
Very good and very interesting. I installed a roof solar system system 10 years ago and have had no maintenance costs, it's winter performance is less than summer amounting to 75% of our needs. Nether the less our 'pay back ' period was about 8 to 10 years. That is the critical factor.
Hiline is a great option and I have had many customers over the years with double digit electricity bills for the year. Things are transitioning where customers are taking up their north facing aspects with solar PV and the cost of a heat pump installation in a lot of cases is closer to half the cost of a solar hiline install.
Costs are interesting. If you consider running it off solar with a timer costs are essentially free, or if you amortise the cost of installing the solar and include that into your hot water costs it's about 2.2.c a kWh for solar. Also NSW has rebates above STC which means you can get some smaller 270l systems already for about $33 install cost. The only issue I see maybe the reliability of the cheaper brands that are new to market. Otherwise better for the hip pocket and environment ⚡
Awesome breakdown of the systems. Thanks so much
I didn't understand why running a small circ pump for the solar would be the same as running a heat pump compressor? Other than that I think this guy did a great job explaining a lot!
Very informative. Thanks!
Great video, thanks for sharing.
Wow, very informative. Thanks
A very interesting video, thanks very much.
good video - well done. tough to cover rates all across the country as the vary widely - note they are all more than those rates in Vic and the higher they get the greater the savings
Thank you, this video was really informative and helpful.
Awesome video thank you
It's so cute for us Americans to hear about 'hate' pumps. Heat and hate are still two different for words for us. Love it!
Aussie here and all I hear is heat.
Why do you guys pronounce your O's like A's?
You guys say Ruchk instead of Rock for Rock n Roll.
Also, why do you guys write it as mom instead of mum? Mom to us is mhom but seeing as you would pronounce that as mum- you won't see the issue.
Thanks for the great video. Very informative.
Thanks mate...
Very helpful
Well done! straight to it and no BS.👍
Really appreciate this video, everything makes sense now!
Thank you so informative ❤
Nice video mate 🤙🏻
Respect, this is a solid video, well done
G'day,
Great informative video.
Q. The Victorian government is offering up to $1000 rebate on replacement of gas hot water to electric.
The electric unit being offered by contractors is Aquateck Rapid/x6. What is your opinion on this particular unit. 🤔
We mostly use a product called the Apricus 260 which is actually from the same manufacturer as the Aquateck heat pump. We have good succes with the Apricus product and would therefore expect the same from the Aquatech. I would normally suggest that products larger in capacity but is usally dependant on the house hold. Looks like this is only a 200 litre capacity.
Dynaheat heat pump hot water system under 3 years old good for Luke warm water now dude
I dont know much about the Dynaheat as I have only pulled them out. Recommend going back to Dynaheat for advice.
The key thing is to ensure the HWS has a timer so it can be set to operate durung peak sunny periods.
Ideally between 10 am & 2pm, before the peak tariffs kick in (on the cloudy days)
The only thing I would add is that you would want to consider the heating time frame of the heat pump hot water system. There are some models that have small compressors and in the worst of winter in Melbourne for example it may take 7 hours to heat up to temperature.
Are your prices on website inclusive of new NSW rebates ? Seems a bit high? What is your warranty period on parts and labour ?
Are there costs to service heat pump ? cleaning bacteria or anode replacement ?
Great video lots of quality information. Just wondering how these systems go in winter, we don’t get snow but some mornings are 0 degrees, and I wonder how the tanks are insulated to handle this? I.e how much water temp heat would I lose over night? I have a evacuated solar system at the moment and it’s useless in winter, have to run the electric water booster to give us hot water.
The insulation of the tank keeping the heat in is not really a concern during cold weather. The recovery of the heat pump would be something to think about. Lower temeratures would reduce the efficiency as well as slow the recovery of the heat pump. Evacuated tube (solar thermal) can struggle in lower sunlight yeilds. Because heat pumps pull heat out of the atmosphere it may be a suitable solution for you. Best get in touch with a local hot water specialist to discuss.
Amazing videos, thanks for sharing all your knowledge and insights, really well put together
So if I use my existing solar panels to run the heat pump ($0 running cost) and already have 6* natural gas hot water then it would take 5 years to recover initial outlay in savings, then assuming it runs for another 10 years (15 year service life), I would get another $8,460 in savings and perhaps more if the price of natural gas goes up. Seems like a good investment!
RE COP at around 8 mins in. only way to compare units efficiencies is STC's as this is a controlled testing environment that everyone has to test to. the higher the STCs the more energy saved over the deeming period. If one unit gets 28 STC's and the other 27, the one that gets 27 will use another 1000kWh energy over the deeming period.
Split systems have a larger fan than integrated which should improve efficency
Best measurment on efficiency would be the STC of each product but yes I would expect a larger fan to be quieter but also more efficient. I believe you would also want to consider the size of the compressor and evaporator. The smaller compressor would heat more slowly therefore giving more opportunity for the evaporator to extract heat from the air.
Awesome video. I'm concerned about all the brands that use gas r134a which has a global warming rating of 1400+. Compare this to the brands that use propane (r290) which has a global warming rating of 3, or CO2, which has a rating of 1 (such as Rheem, Aquatech, Sanden and Reclaim). Would love to hear of any others brands that use these better gasses.
The fact that we were sold on the new Refrigerant Being safe and effective (Now where did I hear that before). Over the one that the Patent expired and was Readily available and inexpensive. And not really as bad overall then what's being forced these days. :(
Your video was very informative, at present I have a Chromagen solar with gas booster.
Am I able to replace this with a heat pump system but also use the solar hot water panels on the roof.
Or does the entire lot have to go panels as well?
Thanks Greg
Hi Greg, Not a comon job but yes this is something we have done before. The heat pump would be a post boost system same as the continuous flow. Would need to phone or email to discuss further.
My experience with electric off-peak water heaters over the years is that they tend to last around the 10 year mark where it’s typically the tank structure that fails. In the case of a compact heat pump system I assume you can replace the tank and keep the heat pump side of things? If so, then my concern would be that manufacturers would continually update their models and therefore make the heat pump not fit the new tank making it redundant and therefore wasteful. I think a split system would therefore be the go.
Hi Don, Most compact or all in one heat pumps will likely end up being replacement of the entire system (tank and heat pump) at the same time. The heat pump comonent will outlive the tank and when it fails you will start again. The split system market will have a percentage of tank only replacements.
The cost of compressor (main mechanical component of a heat pump) will cost $1500 and will be deemed not economical to replace.
@@SameDayHotWaterService thanks for that information.
Most units have around a 15000 hr life on the compressor, 5000 hrs on capacitor/s, 3-5 years on anode rod/s and unless actually maintaned ie: actually clean the evaporator coil and flush the tank and replace anodes, you are going to see roughly 10-12 years on a heat pump.
Most people wont ever bother paying someone to come out and carry out preventative maintenance, hence the reason most manufacturers will only give you 3-5 years on average
Hi Jesse, We are already doing anode replacement and I am confident we will be doing evaporator cleaning moving forward as well. With anode replacement @ intervals of 5 years we should get well over 15 longevity of these tank though not guaranteed. Regarding customers not servicing hot water in general this will probably be the same as existing hot water unfortortunately with minimal uptake.
If you install a heat pump water heater inside the home does it make much difference helping to cool the air during the hot summer months?
Hi David, Will de humidify the air as well as cool down the air air at the same time. Would be great for summer and potentially horrible in winter. This is a good video to explain what you are likely trying to do. ruclips.net/video/5EzfmLFCYy4/видео.html. Maybe look at the Envirosun 250 heat pump as they would have a suitable option to achieve this.
Ty
Lovely presentation, thank you!
I’m wondering if a Tankless On Demand electric system would be the most economical for a 2-4 person household?
If you have the space then I would recommend hea pump. If you didn't have the space then instantaeous would be more economical on running costs though usually have lower slow rates.
@@SameDayHotWaterService Thanks, I have 84in of space, so looks to be good for HP (hybrid). Looking at the 65 and 80 Gal Rheem’s. I have $1550 in available tax credits and utility rebates, which would put me about $1500 out of pocket for the 80. The utility co rebate is good thru ‘23, so I best get crackin! I don’t have an expansion tank currently, need to do some research and see if I should add one (cheap to do).
Goed uit geslecht dank hiervoor Hans uit Nederland
Thanks mate, awesome video.
How quickly do these heat up water, probs varies depending on ambient air temp and inlet water temp. But what would be a rough average recovery rate. I think my standard electric hot water heater (rheem 125l) has a recovery rate of 62l/hr so would take about 2 hours to heat a full tank from cold (to approx 70 degrees).
Also, do these heat pump tanks have anodes? Or can you get stainless which don’t require anodes?
Interestingly, sounds like they wouldn’t pull much current and don’t really need their own circuit / circuit breaker/rcd. I’m guessing you still use it’s existing circuit for retrofits.
Again great video, thank you!
Recovery
This will depend on as you said ambient air temperature but also the size of the compressor. Smaller compressor are heating around 35 litres per hour on avergae whereas the larger ones are closer to 50 litres. As the recovery with heat pumps is sometimes slower, our tank sizes are generally larger. Heat pumps usually go to temperatures of 60-65 degrees.
Anode
Glass lines tanks will have anodes and or electric anodes. Stainless steel generally don't have anodes
Current
Yes, some heat pumps dont need their own individual circuit. Most heat pumps when running in a heat pump mode will use between 500-1000 Watts (they will use a lot more power for a couple seconds when starting up). If the heat pump has a hybrid element this can also detpermine whether the product needs an independant circuit or not.
Can you get a system that lies down long ways on the roof and do these work on water tank (no mains) and do they bolster the water pressure, we have really low water pressure
There is a Reclaim Horizontal heat pump in the market that you could roof mount. Would suggest having pumped pressure or mains pressure. Gravity fed pressure isn't the best.
What size tank would you recommend for a family of 5? Current one I am looking at is 215L. We usually have 1 bath or shower in the morning. And 1 bath and 3 showers around 7pm. Don’t want to be in a situation where we run of of hot water. Thanks
Depends on what you are trying to achieve with the heat pump hot water system. You would need to phone and discuss in further details. Additionally if you are looking at the Ecogenica or eco alliance we don’t recommend these products.
Hi Ty, I was always led to believe that heat pumps only worked if outside the home, so even though I would have liked one, I discounted it, because my " traditional type "HWS is in my ceiling space. ( I'm a carpenter/ built my home/ wide house span = great height room in ceiling space / with full walkway in the centre - front to back/ My current HWS is v/close to apex ( centre)/ well supported strucually/ sits in a galv tray). It's 2 yrs old/ the first hws lasted me 23 yrs, which is pretty impressive/ I regularly serviced the anode and replaced when needed, but after 23 yrs it began to weep through rust hole. Anyway, my question is, can I install a heat pumpwater heater, in my ceiling space ( remove the 2 yr old ' theromax')and will it work there ?? You did mention inside the home/ eg laundry. I originally thought that if I did put one in the roof space, I'd need to mount it so the top part protruded through the roof ( flash the area of course), so as the get to the ' ambient air'. I'd rather not go that way, but would like to have it wholly in the roof space. Also noise with those is roughly 50 DB , so that ticks box as opposed to being outside between 2 bedrooms ( re- noise)
Hi Glenn, Yes you could install the heat pump in the roof space for most brands. Would need to consider the noise and access to heat from the air though if these are satisfied then it would be a good solution. We have also done this job before where it was suitable for the application. Sometimes the heat pump in a roof space will be of a benefit as you will draw moisture frome the air and cool down the roof space which is great in a hot climate.
Not sure if Rheem is available in Australia, that's the brand I'm looking at.
Rheem is defeinityley available. Please look at the Rheem Ambiheat.
Hey mate how do they handle high salt environments - 200m from the beach? Are the electronics exposed or pretty well sealed up?
So far no real issues coming up when being closer to the water for the printed circuit boards. Would compare to air conditioners close to the beach and dont think this conversation comes up to often. From a mechanical performance perspective being close to the beach in winter is great as heat pumps would perform great in winter with the mild temperatures.
@@SameDayHotWaterService Yep that makes sense cheers
A heat pump is my choice now but I'm wondering what if the power is out?
Most heat pumps have an internal battery that keeps the settings that were intially input. If you do have a power outage you will still have the stored hot water that was already heated inside the tank. Once this runs out you will need to wait for it to reheat once power is tunred back on again.
@@SameDayHotWaterService Installed. Thank you so much. Wondering how to get the hot water more than 80 degrees?
Can this be installed inside a house?
Some heat pumps can be installed inside though the range is more limited. We do want to meet a certain cubic metre area in order to keep the product efficient. General rule of thumb is a minimum 2 car garage for air flow requirments.
Off topic, is there a split AC system which uses CO2 as a refrigerant
I believe the Reclaim brand do.
Currently only Reclaim and Sanden have CO2 refirgerant heat pumps in the market.
Do they come with R32 refrigerant?
I only know of Neosun that has an R32 refrigerant model coming to market. Speaking to manufacturers the trend all seems to be R290, so I expect this refrigerent to be the vast majority of the market in the next 18 months and high end to be CO2.
1 in 4 out? That's more than geothermal, which is 1, 3; and stated to me the most efficient. Are you sure on those numbers?
No sure what geographic area you are in but most manufacturers here are stating a 4 COP, so yes I am sure on those numbers. If you would like confirmation on this feel free to look at any of the manufacturers here in Australia.
@@SameDayHotWaterService maybe math in America is slightly different. lol
@@SameDayHotWaterService anyway, I hope the COP is 4 not 3.
what if we have 4 kids, 6 showers in the morning and 6 in the evening. plus lots of laundry and dishwashing during the day. Say 1000 litres of hot water per day is needed.
can they make enough hot water ? The example of 280 litres per day is very low.
Can it be installed in a hot south facing glass conservatory ? at the moment we have to turn on Air Con when we go in there because it gets way too hot. in the summer its well over 40c in there.
If you are using this much hot water and want to use timer function you need to increase your storage capacity. Basically more heat pumps together or add more tanks in a split system.
Like anything as long as it is sized correctly you will have enough. The example of 280 litre consumption is what I consider the avergae house hold. There is noe "one size fits all".
With the volume you are talking about I would suggest likley not. Would need to see the space and weigh up the pros and cons.
@@SameDayHotWaterService
At the moment we have an 16.4kw Buderus oil heater with a 300 litre hot water tank. The boiler heats both the radiators and HW tank in winter. In 1 hour it can reheat the tank more than once so if we start with about 250 litres of hot water and the boiler keeps replacing some of what is being used, it can produce over 500 litres in that first hour in the morning. Which is ok for us. Evenings the water usage is spread out over a few hours.
This spring I am installing a Mitsubushi Diamond Star air conditioning system with 9.3kw heat pump. There is an Ecodan water heater accessory that can use the heat pump air collector to make 9 kw of hot water in the winter. I am tempted to buy it so I can use air con in summer and heat the radiators in the winter. Unfortunately it will not heat 2 circuits at the same time like radiators and a hot water tank. Which the Buderus oil heater can do no problem.
It has a design fault called priority hot water that will turn off radiators if you try to use the Ecodan water heater for both rads and the hot water tank at the same time. There is no way to disable it other than simply do not plumb in a hot water tank to the heat pump. That's the only way to keep the radiators warm 24/7.
@@derekb4092 Hmmmm. Sounds complicated. Would speak to your local hot water and heating engineer. They will need to do some calculations to meet your current loads likely allowing for you geographic location as well.
@@SameDayHotWaterService Its more to do with planning permission regs because there is a 45db noise limit for a heat pump in the back garden. Which limits us to the 9kw version. I reckon 9kw is more than enough for the radiator circuit running 24 7 all winter. We will keep the HW tank running on Diesel oil. Or I'll ask the plumber if he can program the HW tank like a 2nd radiator circuit with a Y plan. Sharing the 9kw equally across 2 circuits.
i noice you a price for solar ...what if you have solar panels already?
As in solar hot water panels? If this is currently on the home there are a couple hot water manufacturers that will allow you to use their heat pump combined with solar hot water. The heat pump will drop is efficiency substantially and in most situations isn't worth retrofitting.
How many watts does the average heat pump water heater consume vs straight electric water heater?
Most domestic heat pumps use between 500-900 watts per hour when running and electric is 3600 watts. As a general rule of thumb for the efficiency or COP (coefficent of performance ) most heat pump will use 70-80% less power than a standard electric hot water system.
@@SameDayHotWaterService
Thanks!
E 01 error what is this
Which product is this?
Looks like a lot off cheap plastic that can brake & need replacing & repairs things are made to brake nowadays it’s a disposable world we live think I’m refuse the free offer to replace hot water tank for our water
Some products yes are cheap and nasty and wont stand the test of time. Regarding the cheap plastic comment, this is just an outer shell for basically and air conditioner that heats water.
They don't work properly in old builds they are not eco friendly
Please explain further why this is the case. They may not work with all applications though work with most houses.
Noisy thats all im saying
Yes they can be noisy but in most siutations they are actually quieter than the reverse cycle air conditioner that the majority of houses have. Could also consider the Reclaim/Sanden product ranges if noise was a concern as these noise outputs are literally a whisper noise level.
@@SameDayHotWaterService yea but a reverse cycle aicon is only used in winter. Hot water is all year around means noise everyday. No good
@@Peter-zv4dx reverse cycle means the air conditioner can do heating and cooling. It is becoming more of the norm to use the air conditioner all throughout the year.
10:04 CO2 is no where near dangerous levels,… CO2 is great at more levels, the world would get greener from it.
Waste of space
More propaganda rubbish about carbon footprint.
What's so wrong with using less resources to heat water? Or Using less resources in general? Why is it propaganda?
@@Monsieur405 There is insufficient proof that humans are causing global warming with carbon, or anything else.
Most of the reports put out about such things are paid for and so therefore, the information is biased.
There is also massive now not so covert plans to control every aspect of our lives and this whole carbon-phobic bs is part of it.
@@Monsieur405 Look up the history of oil (and how the earth makes shale too), this research will show you a bit more about what is really going on. The term 'fossil' fuels was coined by that industry specifically to create a sense of scarcity within the population about oil and naturally produced gasses, so that they could charge higher prices for these things, and the phrase couldn't be further from the truth.
@@Monsieur405he's maybe saying that because the tank and components dont fall from the sky. It's a lot of plastic and materials to produce them in factories and then it's very hard to dispose or recycle when they fail. Just like everything really. That's why I'm considering sticking with my compact continuous hot water system.
Fantastic video with all the info I could ask for.