What's So Special About the Mixergy Hot Water Cylinder?
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- Mixergy X | The Smart Hot Water Cylinder
▶ www.mixergy.co.uk/solutions/m...
MORE FROM MIXERGY:
Making the home gas-free doesn’t have to be complicated. Start the journey today with a Mixergy X cylinder. It can save up 21% on the hot water gas consumption today, and be ready for any energy source in future.
HEAT WHAT YOU NEED
Innovative engineering and machine learning transforms the everyday hot water cylinder into the leading smart hot water solution.
Patented technology heats only what the home needs by partially heating the cylinder, with a direct electric and/or gas connection.
Deliver hot water up to 10x faster, a third smaller and machine learning builds schedules with smart tariffs and more.
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#homeimprovement #heatingsystem #plumbing
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The Mixergy guy knows his stuff. Very impressed.
I’ve installed a few mixergy tanks and didn’t know half of what he said 😂🤦🏼♂️
He’s a credit to mixergy!!
I work for a housebuilder and we use these mixergy cylinders in all our new regulation houses. It's really interesting to see some in depth detail on them.
The explanation about avoiding turbulent incoming cold water cooling the hot water made a lot of sense. The grid balancing sounds like it could save some money if you live near a lot of turbines.
Great piece of kit. We replaced an old cylinder with one in a rental property linked to solar. Tenant noticed a significant difference in their electric bills.
if you only need 50% of the capacity, it begs the question why you didn't get a smaller tank... How would this compare to a cylinder with 2 coils in, one at the top one at the bottom, and a zone valve to swap from top/bottom/both?
Mine assumption because smaller tank will be cheaper and that is big no no from any przez,sales person 😕
Because it gives flexibility to perform better for different usage scenarios (guests visiting etc.) or if you need to recharge quickly I assume the lack of mixing means you get a useable water faster. He clearly said they do smaller tanks so obviously you choose the right size tank for your situation.
I need to accommodate up to 16 guests, plus myself and my wife. A gas engineer told me I needed 800l of hot water storage to manage the peak demand. And in low season I can throttle the hot water volume right back. Lastly, they're brilliant as thermal batteries 🙂
It's a flexible thermal battery -- a bigger battery = more stored energy. If you have a lot of solar electricity and no (or small) batteries it makes sense to load up your tank with hot water for free. Then when you need it later, you don't need to heat it on demand (or it requires less energy to bring it up to the required temperature)
I think the main problem with this approach is that it's not for everyone. A lot of houses that were built with combis in mind (or renovated to remove hot water cylinders) no longer have the space for this, which is unfortunate.
Would love to see how long these last with limescale in the tanks. They probably need an expensive service / decale every couple of years to keep them working correctly with all the technology inside.
Had the same thought. I have an 80l electric water heater that has two simple elements. When I decided to change the sacrificial anodes after 5 years (supposed to be changed every 2-3 years) I had to clean 3-4kgs of limescale out of the tank and dip the elements in vinegar solution and scrape them clean. The only servicing I'd done was drain the tank every 6-12 months. I'm reasonably handy, but if I weren't, paying to change the anodes and doing that cleaning would have cost at least half the cost of a new boiler.
I’ve had a Mixergy tank for three years and haven’t experienced any issues to date.
@@richardwaller7721give it 10 years, see how it’s performing then.
Nice piece of kit with lots of tech, I hope it is reliable, I counted three pumps!
Re Legionella: for a standard HWC heated by gas boiler, mid-week I heat HW for the amount required, 50 minutes in the morning is ample; The HWC is double lagged with insulation so minimal heat loss and plenty of hot water in the evening. Weekend, I set the HW to the HWC thermostat cut-off (65 deg C) and leave as long as it takes. At the weekend, when I wash the plates after breakfast I use Marigolds.
Very cool bit of kit!
08:33 "Oops never mind"
all well and good if you have the space for the tank
AND THE £££££££
What a great way of selling a tank twice the size you need, then charging you extra for only heating half of it.
Loool yep. Look at that mess as well. I've got a heat battery from sunamp
In fairness a hot water tank is a form of battery....coupled with solar it can be used as energy storage therefore bigger is better
In London the space needs to keep all this thing alone will cost more than 20 yrs gas bill 😂😂
No loft space? Know what you mean tho!
I really liked these at the Installer Show but it got me when this guy and his colleague explained it. The coil at the top is how cylinders used to be way back before Viessmann designed cylinders with a coil at the bottom which is now industry standard. Also the full tank heat up time at 32-44 minutes minimum depending on their tank size is almost twice that of conventional tanks so it's even more important to accurately size the tanks for the demand of the property/residents.
That said the Energy Saving Trust has proven this tank is 40% more efficient than conventional tanks (depending on usage/storage volume required etc). That said just the tank is about £1800 and they need inline scale reduces/softened water to stop the strip sensor inside becoming desensitized. Which is another load of kit on top.
Softening the water will save loads on shower gel/shave gel/shampoo. When I go on holiday, I always forget about the water being softer, use the amount of soap I would at home, and then end up spending ages trying to rinse all the excess suds away.
It’ll also save on damage to taps/shower heads. I’ve had scale literally eat through the metal of taps. I’d take those filter replacement costs on the chin for better skin, and less scale to deal with.
Fascinating.
Thanks this , I tried to get a cylinder, I found the supply chain did know about the cylinder , if you live in a hard water area you need to install a water softener, and there is a monthly fee and you need to get the cylinder serviced once a year to maintain the guarantee
There is no monthly fee payable for Mixergy products. They offer an optional care plan which remotely reviews your cylinder performance and can warn of an increase in water or energy usage. In terms of an annual service, this is no more than any other unvented hot water storage cylinder needs on the market, they all need an annual safety check of the system to ensure a safe operation, all manufacturers place an annual service requirement on their products.
So in most small 2 up 2 down 1920 terrace homes in northern towns and cities where do they fit this and at what cost also it's ok rambling on about energy carbon neutral ect but this thing will use vast energy to manufacture ,transport,vso it's still not any better than a boiler in old homes and where do the great majority of folk get the cash
There's 26 years to go to be fully carbon neutral. Your gas boiler has a lifespan lower than that. So you'd have to replace it anyway. The carbon cost of making a new boiler will be comparable to making all this kit. But then we don't have to use hydrocarbons in the energy system, so it's a win against global warming. Start saving now for the eventual cost. No government in any country will cover the transition cost 100%.
Won't be too much longer before all this 'carbon neutral' BS is consigned to the dustbin of time. Common sense will prevail.
Like EVs, the technology tends to come in at the top of the market first, overtime more mass market solutions and eventually you get to the corsa-e. Give it 10 years it’s very early days in this transition, eventually you’ll get a kitchen cupboard sized solution.
@@edc1569 and like EV another panacea that use exotic metals dug in Africa Afghanistan by child labour which has to be refined put into batteries that cannot be recycled.Clinate change is the nuclear war fear we had in 60 s ,the ice age in the 70 s the ozone hole in the 80s and is simply a way to make money by putting fear and control into easy fooled minds
@@edc1569 Exactly. And you'd have to replace your gas fired solution usually every 10 years, so either way, you pay
Very interesting interesting way of managing the heat profile within the tank. I guess the atomisation system would need to be inspected regularly to keep the system undiluted. Interesting time to be working in that industry.
My hot water is supplied by an electric shower, a single instant electric water heater for the bathroom basin and the cloakroom and a 15 litre electric water heater for the kitchen and utility room. You don't need to store masses of water unless you have a bath, which we don't.
Or if you happen to have an 8 room, 16 guest capacity Bed & Breakfast plus a little apartment, cylinders / thermal stores makes commercial sense. It's all about the use-case.
Why do I get the feeling that this set up would only take 30 years or so to pay for itself?
All you need is a enormous room to place this in and a massively wide pathway for the heat pump. In other words most of us are buggered.
How reliable are these I wonder. Seems systems are getting more complicated but are the going to cost more to fix? Are they going to be as reliable?
Good question. I'm a fan of these solutions and think we're going to end up with several solutions that can be chosen based on consumer need, but I do always worry about complexity and maintainability.
My wife and I have an instant hot water (gas) boiler using LPG and manage on two (usually just over one and a half) 47kg bottle of gas PER YEAR. Hot water and showers on demand. Boiler cost me £180 (mind that was 15 years ago) and has only needed a replacement flow sensor in that time (touch wood). How times change. My boiler would now be 'illegal' to install.
Crazy isn’t it? We are on LPG and the heating eats cylinders, but the hot water demand is minimal. What modern allowable system would match yours?
Might want to get it serviced! Yeah when I’m just running hot water the standing charge is the bigger cost!
@@edc1569 I work on the principle that if it ain't broke I don't fix it.
Isn't that box on the outside very similar to the box that Irish heating designer presented when Skilled Builder interviewed him. (I will go look for it)
I use to sell, a multipoint water heater in the same way, if you run a bowl full of water, you only pay for a bowl full of hot water, bath, sink, etc etc, and it don't take the space that tank does
How best can l have more information about this ,so we can bring it to our region
So when they dump power into your tank do you get charged? I own this tank and can't get an answer
yes but it is a reduced rate
This is similar to the new heat geek tank ?
Got one of these and it’s brilliant, but agree with some folk… perhaps overly complicated for some situations. Handy when you generally don’t use much hot water, but need to accommodate visitors from time to time.
Agree the heat pump option is probably only suited to low temperature heat pumps where it’s just lifting the base temperature and then the solar or immersion is “boosting” it to 55 or 60 degrees.
Oh and we’re an average 3 bed semi.
I did go and see them while we were at the nec last week, and they explained exactly what your film shows and they said start from around £1800 but I think it could be a waste as it becomes a standard unvented cylinder once the plate exchanger and air to water heat pump fitted , maybe we can retro fit a plate exchanger to an existing unvented or thermal store and save £1000’s Jamie
Couple of things Roger I started to watch your last video and after 10 minutes realised it was over 8 hours long, omg. You mentioned phase change, I have fairly recently had installed a system using phase change materials by Fischer future heat for my hot water and it seems to work for me in conjunction with my solar and battery system. I have it set to come on for 2 hours at night when electricity is cheaper but of course this only applies if the battery is too low to power the system.
Thanks, we need to do something on phase change
Is this a music video or about building?
It is a building video with music. You can also get a music video with building. Pink Floyd's Brick In The Wall.
@@SkillBuilder We built this city on Rock n Roll
Simplicity is the best way forward. My heat store with immersion heaters (powered by solar pv), solid fuel, and small gas boiler, all installed in highly insulated converted 60's bungalow. Plus MVHR throughout. Very low maintenance, and possible to have small wind generator or heat pump added if required.
Complex systems are seldom maintained properly.
@@steveedmondson7526 Well thats a big fat fail then. Solar PV 15% efficient with lift span of 10 years. If you are heating water why didn't you use thermal solar at 90% efficiency and decades lifespan?
@@EkuuleusNorth Solar thermal is more like 70%. Plus you can sell the excess from PV to the grid which you can't do with thermal. You need electricity anyway so I'd rather have PV and only maintain one system rather than two. Also although the person you replied to hasn't you can get a heat pump making the efficiency of making hot water from PV equivalent to thermal solar
So it's a heat bank?
Wasn't this the B&B near Rye?
yes, well spotted
Regarding tank size, if it's well insulated, why does it matter? Moreover, I don't know why all this expense and effort is made when you can just have an instant waterheater as you have with an electric shower. We don't actually use that much hot water, especially if we use showers rather than baths - as most people do!
Don't forget the Extra cost of water softener and filters
Kind of more interested in PCM now that you mentioned it in the video. In a 2 bed new build (10 years old) with a slighly failed boiler and trying to look at options.
Who needs this complexity when insulation is far more effective than it used to be?
decarbonisation journey :)
I thought the same thing
But the heatpump is circuiting at the bottom, heating the whole tank? Doesn't that negate the entire point of the top coil and now it's just a normal tank?
Yes. If you're going to install an ASHP with a cylinder from the get go, there are better alternatives out there. In this scenario the Mixergy's were gas-fired. Then solar was added. Up to this point I enjoyed all the smart funtions the cylinders had to offer. Then the gas was replaced by the ASHP. So now I have a largely 'dumb' tank that gets filled up overnight on super-cheap electricity (E7) using the ASHP at 2.6 times the efficiency of an immersion. The cylinders then get excess Solar during the day. Over the week / month I have constant supply of hot water for stupidly low money.
@MagnoliaHouseRye thank you for clarifying. This could be a solution for very cold winder climates that then have mild summers. Keep the gas connected at the top for very cold days, then heatpump everything else.
you need to look at heata.
“With a normal gas boiler, you heat everything or nothing” Erm, with a combi you skip the huge water tank step, and just heat up what you use on demand. What’s the point of running a gas boiler into a tank?
The gas supply, now disconnected, would only give enough pressure (just) to drive a 40kw gas combi. There's no way the combi could provide enough hot water to supply up to 8 bathrooms, and I have to assume all the en-suites being used at the same time, so I had to have the cylinders to accommodate a sudden, and huge, use of hot water.
who has room for a tank these days lol.
Someone generating excess solar?
Advance appliances were doing this kind of tank 12 years ago (I had one installed). Old technology 🤷♂️
Thanks for that Captain Bringdown.
@@mikeypc3592these new companies need to do their homework and research what’s out there. Like I said I had a tank that did this 12 years ago. Nothing new.
Heat pumps are not automatically low carbon, it is misleading in the extreme to describe them as that. It all depends on the electrical grid and generally, in the U.K., they use gas.
I buy over 95% of my electricity overnight on an E7 tariff, from a renewable source. IE, all those wind-farms spinning about in the wee hours with fewer to send all that luvly windy power ;-)
Magnolia,
If you supplier says you are getting 100% renewable power, it is lying.
a figure for you, from a 9 year reseach paper.
Wind generates at or below 20% capacity for twenty weeks in a year and 80% for just under one week.We regularly have days on end with hardly any wind generation at all.
At night wind output usually drops anyway.
At 9min 45 secs the Mixergy rep states: ‘if you select 50C as your temperature from 1% to 100% you will get 50 C’
I have had a Mixergy cylinder for 6 months and I can tell you this is not true! I heat my tank to 60% every night to a target temp of 60C with off peak electricity. By the time you have had 1 shower in the morning the sensor at the top of the tank is showing mid 40s C.
This is the biggest real life disappointment of the tank.
However it is great at taking the 7 KWH of excess solar each day and turning that into usable hot water, rather than having a 300L tank of warm water.
Happy for Mixergy to review the data from my tank
Better off exporting that valuable electricity. You sure something isn’t wrong with it? Sounds like it’s running its stratification pump when it shouldn’t. How’s the insulation on the pipe work?
I use Octopus Go for the EV, so can’t get paid to export electricity.
Insulation could be better, but even after a heat to 50-60% of capacity at 60C, I can assure use that the heated portion of the tank is not at the same temperature.
So when you add the plate heat exchanger to your Mixergy cylinder, it loses all its special abilities. It becomes a normal cylinder, where you're not heating from the top to e.g. 30%, but are heating the whole cylinder to the same temperature, with the plate heat exchanger pump mixing everything up.
I do understand that heat pumps wouldn't want to be delivering their lower-temperature heat into a small coil in the hottest part of the tank; it would be terrible for the COP. But why buy a Mixergy and not a traditional tank for a heat pump?
Because I started the system with a gas-fired combi and used it for about a year. It was worth the compromise to keep the cylinders while everything around it changed :-)
@@MagnoliaHouseRye sorry, I used the word “you”, and in your case the progression does make sense.
I really meant, why would anyone come fresh to a Mixergy cylinder for a heat pump? It seems like the main selling point (heats just what you need) isn’t true for heat pumps, so people might as well go for a standard tank, which would be cheaper.
This seems a bit over engineered. Just get the right size of tank. If you have the space for it they even come with a built in heat pump. You don't need any of these fancy stuff.
Electricity is so expensive now, I've unplugged my fridge, unwired my immersion heater and if I need hot water I boil my kettle or get some from the electric shower, for shaving etc.
We are getting ripped off on this country!
A decent fridge is about 1kwh a day, which is 22p a day?
You could do exactly the same with a "normal" tank by using primary secondary water circulation within the tank ( probably with an external pump, connected to a pipe loop ) . circulating the hot water in the tank and evening out the stratification controlled by thermostatic probes. Mix it up : get more usable hot water and less extremes of temperature within the cylinder.
Very good, how much does it cost to install with an AsHP and how long before we make £1.00 profit 🤑
People want more space in their houses than these massive tanks. This is only going to sell to those with large houses
They smaller tanks. Those in the video are for a B&B.
....overcomplicated and probably very expensive.
I use 3 DC direct solar powered heaters installed in different height. All year round (Denmark)
Purely on solar from March to end of October.
There are much simplier tanks layering the water
According to temperature already available
With an electric shower, I have no need for a hot water supply.
So you never wash your hands in a sink and never hand wash any non-dishwasher safe item?
@@amiddled I do those things with cold water.
Expensive and complicated solution to heat water. Bought my 3 bed semi in 1976 and on my second hot water tank with 3kw immersion heater. My smart meter display tells me it's costing about £0 75 (E7) a day.
In this specific scenario, the building has a small managers' apartment, 8 guest rooms = upto 18 people overnight on some days, and just myself and my wife on other days, and everything inbetween.
Looks a mess of wires and pipes to maintain 😢
Isn't instant on-demand heating the cheapest? Heat only what you need, when you need it? Bit like an electric shower? Of course, shower units aren't exactly the most efficient devices but they could certainly be improved on (for heat loss). I'll guess (tongue-in-cheek) an electric instant water heater is a gaddam lot cheaper than that monstrosity!
I'd have to factor in 8x9.6kw showers potentially being switched on at once = a very sudden load of nearly 77kw. Also, inline heating will at best give you at best 100% efficiency. The ASHP provides the hot water at around 260% efficiency on cheap rate electricity to 50c and if I need that boosted to 60%, the immersions do that at only 100% efficiency but with solar, stored or cheap rate electricity.
Impressive but sounds overengineered for a simple task of heating water. Reliability must be rather poor, requiring constant maintenance.
It's all about "use-case". This set-up is to manage the hot water and central heating needs of an 8 room, 16 guests, plus my managers' apartment with highly variable demand. In addition, this set up, complicated as it is, also comes with TWO ways of producing hot water, which gives the business a degree of redundancy and resilience. In terms of reliability, the only issue I've had is an immersion element burnout. Replacing it was a 20 minute job as I only needed to drain off the top 10% of the tank. Other than that I've not had any issues, and also bear in mind this system evolved from being gas-fired, added Solar, and then replaced the gas with the ASHP.
I like the technology as have worked in tech for a long time, but my concern with this is, as my dad used to say, more to go wrong.
Water isn’t a very friendly environment so my suspicions is the life time of this won’t be anything like the old systems we used in the past.
My boiler is old but still working. Sure it’s not going to be as efficient as the newest technology but I’ve had it for over 20 years and as far as I know it was installed in the 80s.
Likewise the tank.
While I’m spending more on gas I expect the cost of these upgrades are going to be way more than my possible savings and they are going to need to be replaced far sooner than what I’ve at the moment.
Also solar hot water heating is far more efficient than PV and these don’t seem to have an option for that.
Only an hour ago, I watched your video on british gas care's failure to fix the fault on your neighbours property due to an intermittent fault.
Who would I have to call to diagnose and repair even the simplest fault on such a setup?
It seems that as technology grows in this area, the more potential there is for failure, more pumps, more motorised valves, complex sensors, but zero uniformity between manufacturers.
Ad the fact that renewable energy systems, as a growing trend, is resulting in thousands of new pop up companies, all eager to cash in on the opportunity, selling systems that homeowners can't even begin to understand how they work. With wild promises of massive savings in the future.
This guy seems to be just like a 90's pvc window salesman,
Baffling people with nonsense jargon.
If most people only use 50% of their tank, why was that tank specified at that size in the first place?
Good luck fixing one of these when it goes down , a lot of guys won’t even attempt to fix a tankless unit even though they have been around for decades.
I am venturing into all this and it certainly strikes me that across , solar , batteries and heat pumps there is so much to go wrong .
never invest into a system that needs three (3!!!) separate electronic displays to operate. It's not only bad user interface design for regular operating but also does not last very long if constantly charged to 100% battery level on these consumer grade tablets, probably lunatics designed this.
It doesn't need 3 separate displays. 1st display is the control for the ASHP, 2nd display is the Smart (electricity) meter or In Home Display, and the 3rd one is an old Android tablet that I stuck to the cylinder with some double-sided velcro. The tablet has the Mixergy App, plus controls for the EV chargers and Inverter. And these are replicated on my 'phone. The probable lunatic who designed this and went wild with the roll of velcro is the same nutjob who built the B&B, runs it, and would make your breakfast if you ever decided to visit 🙂
‘De carbonisation journey’ wnker. Switched off less than minute in.
All we need in this country insulation.
We keep trying to invent low carbon heating solutions when in reality what we need is insulation.
Also the uk is less than 1% of global emissions, some countries are still just finding there oil, and they will be using it to grow there economy.
I think we’re going green as we don’t have the oil and know we will soon be stuck. or the government just trying to tax more. Already now pay for parking based on emissions!!
What countries are just now discovering oil?
@@suspicionofdeceit discovering new oil reserves, places like Guyana, Namibia ect America just started the willow project in Alaska to drill for more oil.
It will all be used, and then there’s us in the uk on a race as fast as we can to get low emissions by basically out sourcing everything to other countries and putting financial strain on people.
The UK is somewhere in the top 20 countries of CO2 emitted per capita depending on how you measure it. Obviously more wealthy countries emit more than others because they have more disposable income and live more comfortably which generates CO2.
For cumulative total emissions since 1850 rather than per-capita we're actually #7.
Although we have decreased emissions by one of the highest rates which is good, your claim of 1% of emissions is completely wrong. Obviously if you draw a tiny circle on a map with fewer people like the UK that can be used to skew the data.
@@jamesclark5654 the cumulative total since 1850 includes all countries that were part of the empire!
Talking about the here and now the uk is around 1% created within our borders.
Granted we’ve basically pushed all of our emission abroad.
@@plumbertime Oh so now it includes the empire with more people and makes it look worse you do want per-capita figures after all?
A UK person currently emits more CO2 than the average person. It's not hard to understand. Stop with all the "only 1%" minimising nonsense. Why not use an even smaller area then to make it look even better? Wales only emits 0.3%. Coventry only emits 0.1%!
What a load of wofflery