Fake "FTB-style" BFS Reel Brakes in Left Hand Reels Don't Work as PLANNED - But is this All Bad?
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- Why don't CDM Left Hand Wind copies of Shimano's FTB (Finesse Tuned Brake) magnetic brake system work as well as the Right Hand Wind BFS Reels?
Full Article here: fishingdiscove...
This video uses the mechanics of magnetic eddy current brakes and old fashioned leverage around a pivot to show why the newer, static-braked versions of reels such as the Tsurinoya Dark Wolf Ultra and Kyorim Black Knight II seem to match the phenomenal casting performance of their "dynamic brake" versions.
It also explains why people have been saying they need to turn up the magnetic brakes much higher on left hand versions of reels like the GH100 compared to right hand reels...
All this shows how clever Shimano's original design is - and why their reels such as the Aldebaran BFS, Calcutta Conquest BFS, Scorpion BFS, Curado BFS and SLX BFS show NO difference between LHW and RHW versions of each model.
Now Tsurinoya is replacing the Dark Wolf Ultra with the Genius and Elf BFS reels - and these have a different, static braking system that is more similar to the MagTrax style of brakes. That way, any differences between Left and Right hand wind will be removed. This move to the MagTrax style has already been established by reels built on the same basic platform such as the Soloking Acura and Kingdom Micro Monster.
You definitely scienced the $h!t outta that! Awesome video Dr Gaskell!
Thanks for the inspiration sir!
@@FishingDiscoveries you introduced me to the DWU to begin with so right back at ya!
Really interesting video that. Makes sense now why the shimano brakes work so much more effectively.
Thank you - and I also think your YT name is amazing (and I fully concur)!
@@FishingDiscoveries hahaha thank you 👌🙌🙌🙌
Very nice explanation!!!
If I could only cast left handed I wouldn't have to stay with left handed reels
I've made an exception for the Ambassadeur 2500C (and learned to cast left handed) since the left hand versions are so much rarer and more expensive! However, I think for all more modern reels I'll always go for left hand wind. The Dark Wolf Ultra still casts amazingly - it's just that it doesn't rely on a dynamic brake to do it (and never has for the LHW). I guess if static brakes are preferred for the Air Stream Custom, then there's room for both dynamic and static systems for high performance BFS reels.
Consider most japanese casters use right hand reels and cast right handed, swapping over to retrieve. The drag and handle perches on the index finger and balances there better than a left hand reel does. It is also possible to flip the drag star with a finger to pull in a little line whilst holding the rod in the right hand. Multipliers were originally built with right hand handles for a reason, balance in the hand.
Bonjour . Je suis un pêcheur Français et je trouve vos vidéos très intéressantes . vos commentaires sont pertinents et techniques . Ce sujet sur les aimants me pousse à de nouvelles réflexion . merci pour vos vidéos . Cordialement , Alain de France.
Merci Alain, c'est trop gentil - mon francais n'est pas tres bon mais c'est agreable de pratiquer! Paul
Great video and explanation Paul.
Very interesting to see how the magnets actually influence spool rotation.
Fortunate enough to have a box of muffins nearby too 😂
Excellent clarification of how FTB brake works!
Crystal clear shown that there is not any pulling force between spool and magnets - there is only braking force against direction of move, which makes arm to be tilted and spring compressed.
So in some Chinese LH reels are used RH parts and then pivot point is in wrong side?
Yes, that has been the problem in the past. However, some brands such as Tsurinoya and Kyorim have now realised this and moved to modified (but static) braking systems - with really good results. They will have to look for a different solution if any future reels need to have dynamic brakes that work equally well between RH and LH reels.
Great video. It seems KK kestrel elite and valient eagle 2 got the pivot point correct with the left hand version, anyway it is overbreaked though.
Thank you - glad you enjoyed it and yes, I believe that's the case with the correct pivot points on the KastKing reels. It looks like the most recent Valiant Eagle 2 may have an extra insulation ring to reduce the braking power. I'm interested to see how those designs evolve. Paul
Marvelous explanation of the physics involved thanks heaps.
You're very welcome and many thanks for your kind feedback. Paul.
this is next level research, thanks for this!!
There had to be some benefit to all those obsessive behavioural tendencies ha ha ha! Paul
Interesting, I should have seen this information before I bought the Dark Wolf bfs 😭
It's actually still an amazing reel. Out-casts the Daiwa Alphas Air with 1.5g lures and below with everything stock for both reels.
Do you know if the BMC100 has fixed the braking for the leftys?
Hi @Parrotsalt yes the BMC100 has the fixed inductor brake shoes so they function exactly the same left or right hand wind.
You're amazing, thank you for putting this together.
That's very kind of you to say so and I'm glad you liked it
Have you tried flipping the magnets, that is, changing the polarity?
Yes - it makes no difference because the magnetic pole induced in the "inductor" is always opposite to whatever the magnet polarity is.
So on LH reel break works on pushing and on RH on pulling the arm. Both forces should be equal so the stopping power. There is no deference in breaking power LH vs RH, just the force is in the opposite direction. On a RH reel N-N power on the side of every magnet is weak cooperate to S-N power, on LH is opposite, that's the key to understanding. When the 4 magnets are S-N-S-N that gives additional attraction to RH and additional "push" to LH reel. So in LH reel the magnet should be S-S-S-S or N-N-N-N to minimize the "push" a little bit. I saw a reel with S-N-N-N magnets, wondering why but now I know. Thank you. On LH reel we can use deepper spool but not on RH reel h...
...the problem with the "pushing" versus "pulling" means that the LHW reel has a force against the pivot point that twists the arm away from the spool (at least as far as the arm can move). On the RHW reel, the braking force is increased during casting because the arm (and the attached magnets) is twisted towards the spool. Whether the magnets are N or S doesn't matter - because the aluminium spool has no magnetism of its own. The magnetic field from the spool is only created by the Electrical current that is induced by the movement of the aluminium through the magnetic field put out by the neodymium magnets in the brake arms. The physics of how the eddy currents are created are that those currents flow in whatever direction would reduce the rate of change in the field (in other words whatever would slow down the movement of the spool). The alternation of N/S poles in magnets arranged on the brake arms only influences what goes on at the leading and trailing edges of each magnet. This is the all important "changing flux" at the leading and trailing edges - this is where Lenz's law comes in to play...
You can see a good explanation of those physics here: ruclips.net/video/BIsKthqeKSo/видео.html
Interesting and well presented/explained video - but I can't get my head around what this actually means performance wise for reels with this issue. Could you give some even more layman's explanation of what this all means?
Have both a LH wind Fishband 100 and DWU - cast well with these and notice the difference tweaking the brakes makes. Does this issue mean that the LH reels braking performance is only a certain % of what it should be VS its RH sibling? Eg. The LH models brakes will only work 40% as intended VS the RH which the brakes will work 100% as intended?
The left hand versions basically function as a "static" brake. The brake shoe sits at the furthest extension from the spool (and won't move towards the spool when it spins faster). However, this still turns out to be an effective braking system as long as the magnets are strong enough and start out sitting close enough to the spool. The RHW version will operate as a dynamic brake, so it will usually be possible to dial it in at a lower number setting compared to the LHW versions. Hope that helps! Paul
@@FishingDiscoveries Understood - thank you!
Being new, about 5 weeks owner of BFS reels, Daiwa, Shimano, Kastking, and Black Knight, I’ve been looking for this explanation of how Shimano brakes work…now explain the Daiwa version that rotate, I’m guess giving a stronger magnetic force on the unductor???
Hi Mark, the daiwa Air brakes work by the physical spinning of the inductor being mounted on a spring-loaded spindle. The faster the spool spins the further the cup-shaped inductor moves outwards along the spindle against the spring. As that cup moves out, it reaches deeper into the rings of magnets in the side plate of the reel - causing stronger braking. As the braking takes effect, the spool slows and the spring can retract the inductor. There are pictures showing this system on my article here: fishingdiscoveries.com/daiwa-alphas-air-tw-20/
Im really worried now, i just bought my 1st baitcaster will this be difficult to learn how to use it?
It shouldn't be no. Go here to learn how to set it up: fishingdiscoveries.com/how-to-set-up-a-baitcaster-reel/ Then, go to this article to learn how to cast it: fishingdiscoveries.com/bait-finesse-casting/
I might have missed it, but in new Dark Wolf version did you mod the brakes? I was planning on getting one, and just getting two bearings to mod it.
The new Dark Wolf Ultra (that includes any sold after June 2022) do not need the brake mod. So you'll only need to upgrade your bearings to improve the performance. Bearing sizes and a direct link to the Roro bearings I use in my Dark Wolf Ultra are included in this article here: fishingdiscoveries.com/tsurinoya-dark-wolf-ultra/
Could you ask me a question? I'm Brazilian and my English is not so good, I still use the same side of crank as you, left. Is it the left side or the right side that problem? when i bought the reel i had to put some magnets on it to help with the cast control, after that it has been performing wonderfully. I have a black knight 2 with the brakes still dynamic, with the spring and everything, is it the left one, the side I have that ends up being damaged?
Hi, it is the left side that is the problem. But, with a magnet upgrade, the reel works really great, so no need to worry. Paul.
So do the brakes on the left handed version of dark wolf work or not!!!
Yes, they work. In fact both right and left hand versions of this reel have now opted for static systems (you can adjust the strength easily with the dial, it's just that the brake shoes then keep that setting throughout the cast). The older left hand brakes worked too - but were not "dynamic" like the right hand model used to be. However, it's impossible to buy those older versions now. Paul
oh~ that's pity couldn't get the benefit of the Fake FTB system because choose LH Model. But the DWU LH model is still a wonderful BFS reel I enjoy the casting with it very well.
Yes, the performance is remarkable.
Great informative video. Thanks!
Glad you found it useful Chris! Thanks for the feedback.
So we all know not to buy left hand FTB reels anymore! thanks for this "Discovery"
Haha, kind of - but either the locked out static versions or "dynamic" brakes with magnets added still cast phenomenally well in reels on that Dark Wolf Ultra platform. With the GH100 it's probably a case of turning up the brakes on the LHW higher than the RHW - and there may be more of a difference there because the spool is heavier and the rpm lower due to larger diameter compared to DWU (maybe that changes the profile of braking for "static" magnetic induction systems)
Oh, and of course doesn't apply to Shimano FTB brakes or any reels where the pivot point is shifted between RH and LH reels.
Step back a moment and consider Faraday's laws of induction and Fleming's right hand rule. Aluminium is paramagnetic but a good conductor, so the brake magnets do not try to drag themselves onto the aluminium drum or disc but do induce a current in it. Now consider an alternator, we spin a magnet inside a set of coils (or spin the coils around a magnet, same thing). With the coils open circuit there is very little drag but as soon as we put a load on the coils the motion is retarded. The brake drum or disc is a single turn of coil and closed circuit. We are not just getting little eddy currents but a current generated around the entire disc or drum. An electrical current in a wire or coil generates a magnetic field (Faraday again) and this is going to oppose the field of the permanent magnets, and provide braking. This force is going to be proportional to the speed of the coil, the faster it goes, the more braking, it will limit the top speed; the braking will build up gradually.
A centrifugal brake, block that throw out, responds to acceleration. The initial burst is braked but released once the spool reaches some constant speed. The magnetic brake will not do that, at slow speed it provides very little braking.
Rearranging the polarity of the magnets does have an effect by altering the shape of the field. Most brake magnets can be pulled off their steel back plate with a bigger magnet. It does not matter which end we call N or S, an N will stick to an S and so on. We can have all N (or S), NSNS, NNSS, etc.
What does this mean? The BFS spool has very little inertia, it is very easy to get it moving but if you give it a big thump, it will be over-powered. It will try to control top speed but the acceleration is too much for it to cope with. It is not for hurling a light lure across some lake. It is short range.
Why is left different to right? Consider leading shoe and trailing shoe drum brakes. They're pivoted on opposite sides of rotation.
So , Lingl Sheng he works or no left hand my friend? is the same with ftb sistem ????? thank you ,by the way, is the chinese reel
True Shimano FTB brakes work dynamically and identically for both right and left hand wind reels. The kastking dynamic brakes in the Valient Eagle 2 and the Kestrel BFS elite work dynamically for both left and right hand wind reels. So far, I think all earlier brakes using a similar system in Chinese reels (including the lingl) only work dynamically in the right hand wind versions. The left hand wind ones work as static brakes and just mean you need to turn the brake dial a little higher for the "lefties". Don't forget that even "static" magnetic brakes have higher braking when the spool is spinning fast and lower braking when the spool is spinning slower. This is because the magnetic eddy current induction is proportional to the speed of the inductor moving through the magnetic field. So, in summary, all the copies of FTB system tend to make effective BFS casting brakes - it's just that you need to dial up the left hand wind reels to a higher brake setting. Paul
@@FishingDiscoveries Thanks man|
Interesting, you pays your money and takes your choice. Simple enough to produce a mirrored braking system for LHW, but more expense.
Yes - the performance in the budget reels is still amazing; but there's a clear copying error (and a reason for the R&D dollars spent by Shimano reflected in the premium products).
@@FishingDiscoveries Shimano obviously knew their physics and then copyists didn't.
Привет Пауль. Интересно на каких оборотах FTB начинают работать динамически? Какие обороты у твоей дрели?
Это очень хороший вопрос... Я не знаю спецификаций, а также мои "модельные" тормоза не такого хорошего качества, как настоящие. Тем не менее, я видел, как Питер Ким крутил пальцами шпулю на своей катушке Shimano и заставлял тормозные колодки входить и выходить довольно легко. Из этого кажется, что вам не нужны огромные обороты в минуту, чтобы заставить их работать динамически.
@@FishingDiscoveries Спасибо. Можешь дать ссылку на Peter Kim?
@@staryi5119 Привет, это было только что на видео, которое он прислал мне со своего телефона. Видео нигде не публиковалось, так что, к сожалению, нет ссылки, которой можно было бы поделиться.
@@FishingDiscoveries Понятно, все равно спасибо.
Technically at this point it's the same as daiwa magforce
Yes, especially since the "locked out" version of these brakes in the DWU and then the full switch to MagTrax style brakes in the subsequent reels based on that platform (Genius/Elf, ACURA, kingdom micro monster etc.). Paul
@FishingDiscoveries yet those static braking seems to cast better with incredible distance so it's safe to say the change from shimano ftb ish braking to magtrax ish does improve the reel
@@FishingDiscoveries btw what about the line capacity it says it can hold 120m of 0.148 line is that true
@@anyaforger2021 That would be at it's maximum capacity - but yes I'd say that figure is believable. However, I generally put between 30m and 50m on all my BFS reels. The ACURA (with it's dual spool option) lets me have the short line/shallow spool option and then the 120m-plus of slightly heavier line on the medium capacity spool. That gives me an insurance policy against long runs when targeting bigger fish but still on finesse gear. Paul
why no ask who got skill create 3d model for 3d printing to print and fix this break issue?
This would be great. Do you know anyone?
I'm 99% convinced and almost ready to eat my hat 🎩(with a liberal helping of pumpkin spice).
The only thing that's holding me back is the spinning experiments I did on my left-hand reel: Whether I spun the spool clockwise or anti-clockwise, the spin durations were identical at all brake settings. Perhaps my experiments were too approximate and involuntarily biased? After all, my spinning finger is not really a precision instrument 📐. As I recall, you tried the same thing.
What do you think? Any way, thank you for your efforts; they are very much appreciated.
P.S. To your knowledge, are the brakes on the KastKing Kestrel and Valiant Eagle II mirror images?
I believe they are mirror images in the KastKing reels - but I'll need to double check. What I would say on the left vs. right spinning experiments - I guess that there'll always be a good degree of braking in the "static" position of the brake shoe (and any additional braking - combined with a backing off of the braking at the end - depending on exceeding a certain minimum speed to pull the shoe out towards the spool). Paul
Just cast backwards. Problem solved
🤣Very good.
Something seriously fishy with all this !!!
How so? Tsurinoya realised their error and moved to a fixed braking system which didn't need any extra magnets - and then they progressed with their next model onto a different braking system. All those reels cast phenomenally well for the price point - particularly considering how much money you'd need to spend before the Dark Wolf Ultra and Black Knight 2 reels came out if you wanted to cast 1-g (and lighter) lures with a baitcaster.
@@FishingDiscoveries How so ??? Why doesnt Tsurinoya mention this on there page on Ali Express where they sell the reel ??? No mention whatsoever about fixed or improved breaking system . They are selling these reels under the false pretenses that you can do the mods and the reel is then on par with the Daiwa Alphas air tw performance wise . It wouldnt have sold no where near as well otherwise in the BFS community .