Why Fans Shouldn't "Trust the Process"
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Why Fans Should Never "Trust the Process" The 76ers Trust the process might officially be a bust. #tanking
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The Heat won championships, blew it up, started from scratch, and built up to a championship contender again WITHIN the 76ers Process.
The Warriors had a dynasty, sucked for a year due to injuries, used that to stock up on young depth, and won ANOTHER championship in an even shorter time.
To add to that, the Celtics won a Championship and contended with the Big 3, made a great trade, had one losing season in the last 15 years, and became contenders that beat this era of Sixers 3 times.
The Heat didn't really blow anything up. Lebron left and Bosh got sick. The only one left was an aging Wade who fleeced the Bulls and made his way back to the team a year later for a victory lap.
You can thank the sixers for giving them jimmy butler lol smh
The issue with “the process” is that the teams that go through it usually are in that position due to team mismanagement. Teams like the Browns and Sixers are just asking fans to give them another chance when it’s more likely they’ll screw it up again.
Almost like a cheating ex asking you to keep giving them chances when they keep fucking up but promises they will do better
Totally agree here, the most important rebuild the sixers need is cleaning out that front office. They were handed a dragons hoard of picks and somehow squandered everything like a trust fund kid destroying the family business
The NBA forced them to fire the GM who started the process b/c it was a bad look
It's a legally abusive relationship that exists legally!
And Broncos been doing the process on accident
As a Lions fan I remember Matt Patricia talking about how they aren't gonna to be good right away and give it time to Dan Campbell freaking out and saying we need to be better after inheriting a way worse team than Patricia did.
tbf MCDC and Holmes also went through the "process". They traded Stafford and got other bloated contract off the books. They tanked and Got Hutchinson. The only way tanking and the process works is if you start from scratch entirely. Lions changed owners to sheila. Brought in new FO people. Hired Brad Holmes and MCDC. They brought their own coaches. Lions left no stone unturned. Thats the process.
Other teams simply start tanking hoping that higher draft picks will fix everything. Lions high picks was a result of the process not the goal.
@@ajku9104MCDC huh that what they’re callin him up there huh? Hells Bells indeed. Y’all just need Trevor Hoffman to come out and flip the coin on your home opener.
Dan Campbell stays winning
I think in the NFL the philosophy should be that the GM is allowed to tank but the coach isn't. Trade your stars, accumulate draft picks by sending out a team of benchwarmers but whatever players are out there the coach has a responsibility to try and win with them. At the very least you gotta try to find the guys that are worth keeping.
As a fan of a team that ALSO has had its fair share of struggles over the years, I, too, understand the constant feeling of disappointment and since my team AGAIN doesn’t have what it takes to get to the SB, I am quietly rooting for your Detroit Lions to accomplish that feat. I would love to see the Lions shock the NFL world by getting past the mighty Eagles and/or 49ers and make it to the SB.
Tanking *CAN WORK* but only if you do more than just tank and horde talent through the draft. You have to develop the players you tanked for and get the right coaching and staff to support it.
This is why I believe in OKC long term. They have a more experienced Sam Presti that’s learned from his old mistakes and a head coach that is excellent at development and getting the most out of players.
@@matta6991Yeah, and lift the Sonics curse.
@@rubenrebenz1000 That happens by giving them their fucking team back already!
Definitely, doc rivers was on bill simmons podcast recently and talked about how essentially all of their tanking has made it difficult for their players that have been around for a while. Players get used to losing
I think that's the point that was made in the video - tanking works but only if you're good at the "build from within" part of tanking.
Jags tank worked pretty well. So did the Bengals, and the dolphins albeit not how they expected
“They’d take Josh Rosen”
I literally spit my drink out lol
guy is actually funny
There is a lot of truth in that comment! 😂
Seems like theres always a Josh Rosen(a guy who I don't think is that great that gets hyped by the media). This year it was Levis(but no one fell for it this time), couple years ago it was Darnold.
It worked for the 2016 Cubs, the entire run of the Blackhawks in the mid 00's, the Golden State Warriors were tanking prior to 2012 and thier most recent run were tanking.
The thing with those teams is that all of them had change of management to see them through to the top.
@@tehbeernerd Also when they had a prime draft pick they didn't screw it up
Astros too, say what you want about them now, but they were awful in the early 2010’s along with the cubs, trust me I watched those games as a cubs fan…two awful baseball teams battling it out to see who would be 6th place in the NL central 😂
@@rydawg26 then the Astros got shipped to the AL and it was all over
I can tell you as a die hard Dubs fan, the Warriors weren’t tanking in the late 2000s, they just sucked and started hitting on their draft picks. Curry in 09, Thompson in 11, Dray in 12.
There are a few NHL teams that have tanked: Buffalo, Edmonton and Arizona tanked for Connor McDavid. Pittsburgh notoriously tanked for Mario Lemieux, trading their top players and sending their starting goalie to the AHL so they could lose more games than the (legitimately awful) Devils.
To be fair, the Oilers was never really tanking, Canadian teams will always have difficulty to tank because Canadian hockey fans are vocal, ruthless, and very impatient. The Oilers were just a very horribly managed, coached team and failed on developing prospects. So the Oilers were just naturally sucked and suck hard.
@@taskdon769 It is stunning to think they had four #1 overall picks in 6 years and were still one of the worst teams in the league.
@@angrytom1923 They had 4 first overall in 6 years because they sucked so bad. Kevin Lowe was not just an idiot but an arrogant prick too. The list of error and arrogance was a very long one...
Poor poor coyotes men. Az needs some help.
@@taskdon769 Edmonton's problem is the fact they are the place where prospects go to die. Same as Buffalo. Both are notoriously bad at developing players because they force them into the front lines too early and when they get burned out trying to do everything because they have no good help around them, they get traded away or cut because they're seen as a bust. It doesn't help they brought in Ken Holland who's main legacy in Detroit (post-2009) was "keep the playoff streak going by any means necessary" and that meant trade everything on the farm to get aging veterans and overpay free agents to strong arm your way to the playoffs.
You can trust the process or not trust the process. But in the end a fan can't do jack about it.
At the end of the day, we are all just peons watching a bunch of rich men throw money around.
@@julianbell9161 True for sports, true for our jobs.... yeah, your post pretty much sums up modern life.
Astros trusted the process from 2006 to 2014. It worked for them.
I would say more like say 2009-2014. Before that they were bad but they still thought they could compete thanks to a very weak division, they even shelled out for Carlos Lee in free agency.
@@bigbearkat2010
2011-2014, actually. It’s hard to believe but they were still trying to win in the last years of the Ed Wade administration.
@@bigbearkat2010 yeah, they tried to stretch out the Biggio-Bagwell era too long
OKC thunder are doing pretty well. Same with Astros and Orioles in MLB. “Does it ever really work?” Occasionally. And even though the 76ers have never cashed they have also been consistently good in the regular season.
Braves did it to some degree as well. Half of their current position starters are home-grown and they paid to keep them around.
OKC did it in the way Hinkle and the 76ers wishes he had. I think the closest comparison would be what the Browns tried doing in the mid 2010s… but with competent leadership and vision.
I agree. Like understand the perspective of saying that the process was a failure, however they had some success despite never reaching a conference final. Plus, drafting a mvp is an accomplishment for any front office imo.
OKC only worked because they had a billion picks and Shai. If you don't have guys like PG and Westbrook to trade to gather assets it won't work
I don’t think the sixers process was a bad idea. They just failed to put their picks to good use. Drafting busts, bad signings, losing on every trade they made. It was just managed poorly
Damn browns…😂 Perna hit it on the head wit that one…. ROSEN 🤣
Problem is if you don't draft well it's doesn't work astros and pens are two teams in different sports that drafted well and worked for them
The point of the process is you *WON'T* draft well. If you can nail every pick you don't need the process
The idea behind getting all those picks is that drafting is hard and you're going to miss half the time so you need more bites at the apple to find a star. (Which Philly did. Joel won MVP)
@@michaelahurtthat apple must of been rotten. Denver drafted a 2x MVP, finals MVP and future HOFer in the 2nd rd. It's all about evaluating talent. Something that Philly sucks at and teams like Thunder, and Heat are good at.
@@mt.2237 It's about luck.
Denver had no clue Jokic would be that good. The guys who drafted him said it. Milwaukee had no clue Giannis would grow 3 inches and be that good. San Antonio just wanted Kawhi to replace Bruce Bowen. New England had ZERO clue Tom Brady was gonna be Tom Brady. Same for Steph and Draymond. Bob Meyers and Steve Kerr have both said they had no idea those guys would be this good.
If Denver was so good at evaluating talent why did they draft Emmanuel Mudiay? Why did they trade Rudy Gobert for Erick Green? Why did they trade Donovan Mitchell for Trey Lyles and Tyler Lydon?
It's all just luck. Every guy you draft is a human lottery ticket. The process is just acknowledging that reality.
@@michaelahurt so OKC drafting 3 future HOFers is luck? Ok pal, the GMs and scouts have to do their job of evaluating talent. The sixers suck at evaluating talent and developing. They drafted 3 centers in lottery for 2-3 years straight. They obviously suck at drafting.
@@mt.2237 100%
Getting the #2 pick in the KD draft is luck. Literally. They got the pick through a lottery. And Portland didn't take him. What scouting was there to take KD?
Russ was a good pick though. That was not the consensus. But Harden is a perfect example of being right while being completely wrong. OKC didn't think he was gonna be this ball dominant isolation scorer. He became a wildly different player for the guy that thought they drafted. One of the reasons they liked him is because they thought he was a low ego guy who'd be content playing behind Russ and KD.
Embiid and Noel was fine. Both those guys were seen as potential #1 picks if not for injury. It was a talent play. Especially given the injury concerns with both guys. And trading Jrue helped them get the the #1 pick in 2016
I agree that Okafor was a bad pick but not because he was a center. Because he had lower upside than Porzingis, even if he was viewed as the #1 pick most of the season. (And it's not like any of the guards were good if they didn't want a big. Mudiay and Hezonja both sucked too.)
For those unfamiliar, a timeline of the Process:
May 26, 2012: The Jrue Holiday/Andre Iguodala led 76ers lose to the KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo Celtics in Game 7 of the ECSF
August 10, 2012: 76ers trade Andre Iguodala for Andrew Bynum and Jason Richardson
April 18, 2013: 76ers fire HC Doug Collins after a 34-48 season
May 10, 2013: 76ers hire Sam Hinkie as GM and President of Basketball Operations
August 12, 2013: 76ers hire Brett Brown as HC
June 27, 2013:
• 76ers select Michael Carter-Williams #11 overall
• 76ers trade Jrue Holiday to the Pelicans for Nerlens Noel and a 2014 first round pick
June 26, 2014: 76ers select Joel Embiid #3 overall and Jerami Grant #39 overall after a 19-63 season
February 19, 2015: 76ers trade ROTY Michael Carter Williams to Bucks for a Lakers first round pick
June 25, 2015: 76ers select Jahlil Okafor #3 overall after a 18-64 season
December 7, 2015: Jerry Colangelo is “hired” as a special adviser to Chairman of Basketball Operations
April 6, 2016: Sam Hinkie steps down as GM and President of Basketball Operations
April 10, 2016: Brian Colangelo is “hired” as GM and President of Basketball Operations
June 23, 2016: 76ers select Ben Simmons #1 overall after a 10-72 season
November 1, 2016: 76ers trade Jerami Grant to OKC for Ersan Ilyasova and a 2020 first round pick
June 19, 2017: 76ers trade #3 and #13 pick for #1 overall pick
June 22, 2017: 76ers draft Markelle Fultz #1 overall after a 28-54 season
May 9, 2018: The 76ers lose in Game 5 of the ECSF to a Celtics team led by a rookie Jayson Tatum and missing its 2 best players with injuries
June 7, 2018: Brian Colangelo resigns as GM and President of Basketball Operations after being caught using burner accounts to criticize his players, HC Brett Brown hired as temporary replacement
June 21, 2018: 76ers draft Mikal Bridges #10 overall and trade him to Suns for Zhaire Smith
September 18, 2018: Elton Brand promoted to GM
November 12, 2018: 76ers trade Jerryd Bayless, Dario Saric, Robert Covington and a 2022 second round pick for Jimmy Butler (and Justin Patton)
December 31, 2018: Jerry Colangelo steps down as special adviser
February 6, 2019: 76ers trade Wilson Chandler, Landry Shamet, Mike Muscala, 2020 first round pick, Detroit 2021 and 2023 second round picks for Tobias Harris, Boban Marjanović, and Mike Scott
May 12, 2019: 76ers lose to the Raptors in Game 7 of the ECSF on a 4 bounce buzzerbeater by Kawhi Leonard
June 20, 2019: 76ers trade #24 and #33 pick for Matisse Thybulle
June 28, 2019: 76ers sign Al Horford to a 4 year/$109 million deal
June 30, 2019: 76ers re-sign Tobias Harris to a 5 year/$180 million deal
July 1, 2019: 76ers sign/trade Jimmy Butler to the Heat for Josh Richardson
July 15, 2019: 76ers extend Ben Simmons for a 5 year/$170 million deal
August 23, 2020: 76ers get swept by the Celtics in the First Round
August 24, 2020: 76ers fire HC Brett Brown
October 1, 2020: 76ers hire Doc Rivers as HC
October 28, 2020: 76ers hire Daryl Morey as President of Basketball Operations
November 18, 2020:
• 76ers draft Tyrese Maxey #21 overall
• November 18, 2020: 76ers trade Josh Richardson and #36 overall pick for Seth Curry
• 76ers trade Al Horford, a 2025 protected first round pick and 2020 second round pick for Danny Green, Terrance Ferguson, and Vincent Poirer
June 7, 2021: The #1 seed 76ers lose Game 7 of the ECSF to the #5 seed Hawks, after blowing and 18 and 26 point lead in Games 4 and 5 respectively, and Ben Simmons passes up an open dunk in the 4th quarter and shoots 34% from the free throw line
October 22, 2021: Ben Simmons sits out the season opener (and as it turns out the rest of the season) for various reasons
February 10, 2022: 76ers trade Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond, and 2 first round picks to the Nets for James Harden (and Paul Millsap)
May 12, 2022: 76ers lose Game 6 of the ECSF to the Heat
June 23, 2022: 76ers trade Danny Green and #23 pick to Grizzlies for D’Anthony Melton
June 30, 2022:
• 76ers sign PJ Tucker for 3 years/$33 million
• 76ers sign Daniel House for 2 years/$8.5 million
July 20, 2022: 76ers re-sign James Harden (who opted out of a $47 million option) for 2 years/$68 million with a player option for the second year
February 9, 2023: 76ers trade Matisse Thybulle and a 2023 second round pick to Portland for Jalen McDaniels and a 2029 second round pick
May 3, 2023: Joel Embiid wins League MVP
May 14, 2023: 76ers blow a 3-2 series lead, Jayson Tatum drops a Game 7 record 51 points, eliminating the 76ers for the 3rd time in 6 years
May 16, 2023: 76ers fire HC Doc Rivers
May 29, 2023: 76ers hire Nick Nurse as HC
June 29, 2023: James Harden opts in to his player option and requests to be traded from the 76ers
This is amazing. It's so bad that it's impressive.
Tanking works, but it requires competent management, and most crucially the ability to hit on not just 1st round picks, but in later rounds as well. Depth wins championships
Don't forget trades and free agency to round out the right bottom half of the team to support your talent.
If a job tells me to trust the process I know they’re tryna scam me out of 3 years of my life 😂
Winning mentality, even when situations aren't "perfect" > Tanking culture
The process didn’t work in Philly because it was never allowed to happen to begin with. The moment Silver forced us to fire Hinkie and hire the Colangelos it ended. Hinkie never came close to seeing his plan all the way through and I’ll forever hate Adam Silver for it.
A lot of it was also completely whiffing on their high lottery picks. Hinkie himself was guilty of it. He picked 3 centers in a row for some reason and only Embiid was worth the pick.
Ain't wrong.
@@unc54 Hinkies trades were incredible and he was forced by upper management to draft Okafor over Porzingis in case Embiids foot never fully healed. He also drafted Michael Carter Williams during the same draft we took Nerlens Noel and he turned MCW into a top 3 protected first round pick which was later wasted by the Colangelos. He also had a deal all but done w/the Celtics for Okafor before being forced to resign that same offseason and he found Richaun Holmes and Jerami Grant in the 2nd round and Robert Covington and TJ McConell as undrafted FA’s. Hinkie was low key a genius imo and far better at his job than Morey
@@stevescott3735 he's the GM, isn't he supposed to be upper management?
@@bigbearkat2010 no…not in that specific instance. The Owner was worried about Embiids lack of progress and wouldn’t allow hinkie to pass on someone like Okafor just in case. People forget just how much of an unknown Embiids health status was those first two years
tanking definitely works just look at when the Spurs drafted Tim Duncan
From my memory it wasn't really a rebuild kind of tanking. It was more akin to the Colts and Andrew Luck in which the star player wasn't there to carry them so the team just gave up that season.
14:46 Yeah, Gary Bettman said tanking doesn't exist, I trust him... Would've been fun to go on about the Buffalo Sabres and General Manager Tim Murray who literally traded away anyone who had any hockey ability to tank for McDavid/Eichel or how the Oilers kept getting Number 1 picks. Still loved the video, well done Perna and Will!
I think "the process" works when an organization has the right person in charge of the culture and personnel. The Avalanche are a good example of patience paying off. Sakic's first few seasons as the full-time GM were not very good, but the Kroenkes allowed him to play out his plan over the course of several seasons. He has been methodical in his approach to developing young players and surrounding them with complementary veterans. Keeping Jared Bednar in place and establishing consistency in the coaching message also helped. It paid off huge in 2022 and probably would have had a chance of replicating that championship success in '23 if injuries hadn't been a major factor, especially with Landeskog missing the entire season. So my answer would be yes, it does sometimes work.
I will say Avs fans were lucky that the year they finished last in the NHL was the strike shortened year, so they really didn't have to suffer all that much compared to some teams that try to tank.
the 76ers have been trusting the process since 2013, and look where it’s got them ☠️
Winning 50 games every year? I get they blew it with some trades but they were a kawhi shot away from a conference finals… matter of perspective I guess
Consistently a very good team?
@@mr.trevor185 so several years of being the laughingstock of the league would've been worth it for one trip to the conference finals?
@@mr.trevor185why’s it blowing up every year then? Because as an organization you don’t set a good standard by showing your young players that the culture isn’t good enough to produce good players or win games, losing horribly for years is. Bad karma, sixers will never win a ring with this iteration of the team.
Well would you rather be the Washington wizards? Or charlotte hornets? Again a matter of perspective
NHL teams absolutely do tank. Look at the Oilers during the McDavid and Yakupov seasons. Teams tank, the players do not. But if your team is naturally garbage, there usually isn't much that can be done in terms of wins
i don't think the oilers even tried to tank. they were just a poorly managed franchise
The Coyotes and Sabres were the ones who were *really* trying to tank in the McDavid/Eichel year, the Oilers were just so terribly run that they managed to be the third worst team and then lucked out with the lottery.
The depth of talent in the NHL and how far reaching the league is internationally makes it a lot harder to tank any given year. However, the tank for Bedard was bad this year in the NHL. Four teams finished with 60 or fewer points, which hasn't happened in over 20 seasons.
When the alternative is your team being in sports purgatory where they're just good enough to snag that last wildcard, but not good enough to do anything with it and screwing their draft stock in the process. I'll gladly "Trust the Process" as long as it's properly managed and not tampered with by the league 😁
The Process (the...process, not the player) could have worked if the Sixers hadn't screwed up the most important step: Keeping Jimmy Butler. The whole point of the Process (at least as I saw it) was to create a high quantity shot at getting one or two transformative players. There were going to be busts along the way. The inevitabilty of it was baked into the yield. But management got too loyal to the idea it had to be the players drafted, and not necessarily the stars acquired via trade along the way, that would fulfil the prophecy of the Process.
Honestly if the Sixers traded Simmons to court Butler when his contract came up, theres no telling what they might have gotten (he was considered a huge defensive plus at that point, and his terrible shooting was still somewhat overshadowed by his solid ball movement. There was probably a team willing to move something of worth for him).
But regarding whether one should "trust" a tank, much of it is about what alternatives there are to be compared to at the time. Is there a single title that could be scraped for like the Rams? Maybe tanking isn't for you. The Sixers were not "one player" away from championship contention when they embarked on the Process. So it seemed like a worthwhile thing to pursue.
The Orioles are crushing it this year which means Peter Angelos will get rid of everyone of value next year.
If history is any indicator...*yes.*
If they had a GM who was a yes man for the Angelos than yes. But their current GM is an expert at talent evaluation based on his time in Houston as the right-hand man to Jeff Luhnow.
The thing about tanking is that under the right administration and strategy it can work. The Houston Astros have become a baseball dynasty, that show no sings of stopping.
Brandon, I love your cerebral, well-thought out discussions on some of these subjects. I have really enjoyed your newest content as of late
Nailed it...
The whole trusting the process thing isn't the problem, it's that whole "instead of criticizing us for not having anything to show for all the time and money we've wasted, fans need to trust the process" thing that's the problem lol. Good teams don't have to tell their fans to "trust the process", even when they have bad seasons...
It’s worked for the O’s!!!
Sean McDermott of the Bills loves to “trust the process”, which for him apparently means immediately break a 17 year playoff drought, take a step back to draft a franchise QB, develop him to his top 1% potential, then settle into a perennial playoff disappointment. It’s not a bad process exactly, but I am confused if it has a satisfactory endpoint.
From what we’ve seen the process alternates between big swings and settling. After a bit of settling, this year might be the big swing year. Plus his process more refers to keeping the team as a contender long term rather than winning one and then fading into irrelevancy like many teams have. The Bills are actually pretty sustainable right now since most of the players have already been paid and are still good, so they should remain near the top for the time being.
@@anthonystrangio I agree, it’s still a bit funny though. It’s easy to believe in a process when it’s consistently making tangible strides, but when you peak at losing the AFC Championship and then can’t make it out of the divisional round, it’s a lot harder to believe that this is a step a to b to c sort of process, which the statement implies.
@@anthonystrangio with the MLB though, some of the small market teams kind of have no choice but hope for the winning one and fading into the background again.
@@terig5584I mean yes it is hard to win a Super Bowl lol but nothings guaranteed so as a Bills fan I’m just gonna enjoy not going 7-9 every year lol
How has McDermott not been a major success? I got a news flash for Bills fans, you ain’t winning the Super Bowl this season either.
But if they win 10 plus games, maybe the division, maybe a playoff game it’s a good season. They have a franchise QB since that’s all that matters so the fans have nothing to bitch about.
It was amazing, the sixers nailed how to get top picks. They failed at picking but it's objectively fact they got the picks. As a sixers fan i wouldn't be mad if they did it again. They can't pick that bad again. It's not possible. Ben simmons and fultz are off the board.
People act like you weren’t the fultz over Tatum pick away from winning it all
They had 4 top picks. They selected 1 superstar (Embiid), 2 busts (Fultz and Okafor), and one once good player am that never learned to shoot (Simmons).
As an Astros fan who went through multiple 100 loss seasons I can say yes! The process works.
As long as you have a front office that knows wtf it's doing
Yeah you guys were terrible in the early 2010s
Process of cheating?
(Still salty about being a Mariners fan in the AL West, though at least they made the Astros have to play 2 full games of baseball to get 1 win in the playoffs)
The checkout out line for home depot carrying 15 garbage cans is not actually a "process"
Seemed to work with Lebron... The second time around lol. The Cavs also did a great job tanking and rebuilding in like 4 years after he left the second time. They had a 50 win season 5 years after he left. Some teams haven't had a 50 win season in decades.
They tanked because they were shit bro not because they chose to
The two most important factors in winning a championship are luck and an owners willingness to spend money. There's only one franchise I've heard of go all the way while refusing to open their wallets, and that's the Florida Marlins.
"The Browns are so fucking inept they'd be the only team to mess up their own do-over." 2017 - Browns trade #12 pick to Houston. Houston selects Deshaun Watson. 2022 - Watson has 22 sexual misconduct lawsuits facing him. Browns trade 3 1st round picks for Watson and sign him to a fully guaranteed deal that pisses off the other 31 GMs to no end
Just like your video on the worst NFL team ever, Lions or Browns, you would think some how, or some way they would get it right maybe even by accident, after this many years. I think of George from Seinfeld when he is doing the opposite of everything. If EVERY SINGLE natural instinct of his is wrong, the opposite must be right. This is what the Browns and Lions should do.
13:25 - Shout out for the NANCY REGAN reference (was that you Perna or Will?)! You almost slipped it past me. LMAO 😂😂😂
Ben Simmons isn’t a bust let alone one of the biggest
2016 browns draft class
I can name 4
Corey Coleman, Rashad Higgins, Emmanuel Ogbah, and Cody Kessler
I mean, the Browns would've probably fucked up both Lamar and Josh's development if they got drafted there with Hue Jackson as their coach.
Trusting the process is actually terrible in baseball if you can’t develop players. The Tigers have been terrible since starting tanking in 2017. The farm system is in abysmal shape and hopefully the pain can end soon with a winning record at least, which the Tigers haven’t had since 2016.
If the Sixers are jettisoning Embiid, he must be a person they don’t believe in. Character trumps talent if said character is trash. 🤷🏼♂️
May i introduce the Arizona Coyotes who have been in a perpetual tank for the last while and are currently playing in a 5000 seat College Arena at ASU? Hockey teams tank... a lot.
Says a tanked Montreal Habs fan
Lmfao "The browns would fuck up a do-over with complete hindsight". As a Clevelander, this guy gets it.
"The process" has been failing ever since they started sending rookie QBs to the wolves
Stats & history say bench them. Let them get experience during throw-away time and learn the books and tricks from watching
Mark Davis just told Raider fans to be patient. I'm predicting they go 0-34 over the next two years under the two idiots they have running that team now.
I 100 percent agree here. This is why I am so quick to roll my eyes at fans who complain about their team being competitive year after year and never having a true losing season and always being in the playoff hunt even without significant post season success. The alternative is far worse than this "mediocrity" you complain about day after day. And it's funny you mention Dallas, because that's the exact fanbase I am talking about. "Waaaa...we should just trade everyone good and tank because we are mediocre." Just so you can be mediocre or worse? Not a great plan.
I think this is probably due to a modern dominance of instant gratification, and amplification of extreme fans. i.e. if you don't win the Super Bowl = "you suck!" I am a life-long fan of my teams. I'm happy when they are above .500 and challenge in the playoffs. It is part of the package, and includes the drama of sport.
Watching all sports, the greatest experience (the reason I watch so many hours) is the upset. Most recent example in my memory (57 yo) is the Browns beating the Steelers in playoffs. Fantastic and exciting game! The joy is 5x greater because of the context of the Browns being terrible. The Browns affect my emotions when they lose, and doubly so when they win. I love them. Cowboys fans and New England fans are insufferable because they are such jerks when their team loses. Those fans don't love their teams. They are mostly life-losers who relish the opportunity to stand on the edges of the spotlight for winners.
Process in Philly almost worked, but they cost themselves at least 2 championships when they chose Ben Simmons over Jimmy Butler.
i just discovered this even though its kinda old at this point. im a big nba fan and i loved your commentary on basketball, and i would love to see more of it. having subscribed to you for your football content but seeing the basketball content, you have a natural talent for sports commentary in general, and i’d love to see you branch out to cover at least one other major sport. keep it up🫡
One thing to note with the Sixers is Embiid sat out 2 seasons (and barely played his 3rd or "rookie year") and Simmons sat out a season. So while they sucked they had all stars just not playing
as an Eagles fan, if he runs the Commanders like the he does the Sixers i’m GREAT SO GREAT 😭
Tanking is sort of necessary in the NBA also if you’re not the Lakers and can bring in the next big FA that comes along. You either draft in the lottery to get the next generational player or you’re stuck in NBA purgatory drafting in the teens and getting bounced in the first round every year.
The 76ers process was interrupted by the nba. Hinkie would likely not have made the dumb moves his successors did
The process in Philly managed to secure enough assets to get Embiid, Jimmy Butler, James Harden. Unfortunately we have the worst management in the NBA and the meddling interference of the league.
As a hardcore NBA fan hearing people call Simmons a bust is so annoying. He literally made all star games. Sure he has since fallen off but he’s not a bust and far from the biggest.
It absolutely works if you have a good gm and player development. Just look at OKC they are in the second incarnation of a process and are about to break the NBA like they did in the early 2010s.
The Sacramento Kings tanked for nearly two decades. And look at them now: half decent playoff team.
The process was the creation of a losing culture. You think after spending years losing in purpose you can just flip the switch?
I would say it works if the team has good scouts and drafts well. Take the orioles in baseball for example
Most of the time "trust the process" is nonsense to shut up your fans.
Unless you're the Buffalo Bills. In their case, it works.
Depends of the ownership while Kroenke are stingy and cheap they did god job with Nuggets, Avalanche and LA rams so they are doing something right
"The Process" in Philly never got a chance to play out, so we'll never know if it actually worked. Once Silver forced Bryan Coleangelo on them it was over. He proceeded to squander all of the assets that were built up, did a bunch of bad trades, signed a couple bad contracts, and sent the whole franchise back to into NBA Purgatory. I think not being able to see it all play out is a tragedy.
Perna expanding his universe to basketball? Yes please! It’s the start of TGS eclipsing ESPN.
It depends on the front office.
Buffalo broke their playoff drought with an exceedingly mediocre team, traded off what had value, and ate the largest dead cap number in NFL history to hard reset their roster so it could be rebuilt around Josh Allen.
The Browns basically did the same thing and selected the wrong QB and players with the accumulated draft capital.
It really just comes down to how good the teams front office is at talent evaluation.
And yet Baker Mayfield is still one of the better QBs they've drafted over the years. I don't even think they drafted all that terribly in that time period or at least their batting average was better than before. They had been going in the right for a brief period for once. I'd say the rebuild went wrong because they got cocky and reverted back to their old habits that made them a joke in the first place
@@bigbearkat2010 They drafted a QB with obvious limitations and whiffed on shoring up their defense at practically every opportunity which ultimately ended up being their undoing.
Sizers were on the right track before the NBA intervened and made them fire their own gm and replace him with colangelo.
Allow me to introduce you to the 2022 Chicago Blackhawks
Sean McDermott used the phrase a lot when he turned the bills around hopefully it works out this year and we win a superbowl!
Only one team can win it every year..Have sam Presti and the Thunder made it further than the 76ers?
Not sure how anyone could say it "didn't work" with the Sixers. Let's look at their records. 2015-16: 10-72. 2 years later 2017-18: 52-30. In just 2 seasons, thx to "The Process" they increased by 42 wins! 2018-19: 51-31. 2019-20: 43-30. 2020-21: 49-23. 2021-22: 51-31. 2022-23: 54-28. That's a damn good streak of minimum .589 ball. Did they win a ship in that time? No. Did "The Process" make for a successful turnaround? Absolutely it did, without question.
The problem, though, was that they wanted to get the championship, not circle around back to not making it past the second round yet again after doing that back in the 2000's.
“Leo would never date a 28 year old” 🤣🤣🤣
A “process” like Philly doesn’t work for a simple reason. When you’re building a team based off of youth, can you draft well? And can you develop them into the stars you need? Philly whiffed on two of them and signed one to a big deal. The deficiencies were not corrected and now it’s a sad time for Sixers fans cuz the process has ultimately led to them never making a conference final.
The point of the process was to get Embiid. That's it. The fact that Simmons and Fultz (and Noel and Okafor) didn't work is why you need the process in the first place. The entire idea is getting one #1 pick guarantees nothing cause he might not be good. You need multiple chances
But process or not, team building is team building. If they had kept Bridges and traded for Haliburton instead of Harden this team looks very different.
(Nevermind what happened to Simmons and Fultz which is just horrible luck more than anything)
It does work in baseball. But other sports correct not quite.
I think some teams rush the process and then act confused when they don't do good
The Sixers had some real bad luck with two of their first round picks. Simmons who is a head case and never developed beyond what he was when he came into the league and Markelle Fultz who injured his shoulder and forgot how to shoot the ball. Imagine if both lived up to their expectations.
Brandon "any time I can throw in a Paul Peirce poop joke, I will" Perna
I’m 1 min into the video and I can already tell that it’s gonna be a tough watch as a die hard Sixers fan
Tanking absolutely can work. Just ask the Spurs, Tim Duncan, and the doctors who kept David Robinson out for the majority of one particular season with a "back" "injury."
I'm pretty sure David was out with a back injury, though. :/
14:47 I was gonna mention why you didn't mention the NHL, but then you reminded us😂😂 and then again, the Buffalo Sabres are the closest examples of "trusting the process" and yet. . .
Arizona Coyotes?
Why is tanking in the NFL more complicated than NBA? Genuinely asking, just don't see a massive difference beyond the amount of players needed for the sport.
The NFL doesn't have a lottery process either. Plus more players means more chances at success there.
I always appreciate when the Washington Wizards get some coverage! Been a fan since they were Les Boulez. I am really excited for their future. Making good moves. You can see how much the new GM learned while he was with the Thunder.
only a real fan could call this good moves
"The process will take time, 11 years. Coincidentally I retire in ten years."
The Os did. i didn't think it would work, but shows what i know
perna markelle fultz is coming back i promise
Chiefs fan here and i 100% trust the process 😂
Brandon's gone all Lennie from the GCU in the intro. I dig it! Get him a crown!
In the case of philly, I think Embiid has shown us that he just isn't a leader. Any time they failed he was quick to blame someone else, be it Ben Simmons or James Harden. That is just not something you do, when you are supposed and yourself demand the role of being "the guy".
this youtuber could be an amchor on espn. His scripts are pure gold and connect with so many people. I love this guy
Don’t want him on ESPN. They don’t deserve or need him.
It worked with Josh Allen.
Not quite; the Bills moved up in the draft to pick him, and they had just squeaked into the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor as the QB. On the other hand, I could see the Cardinals having tanked to get Kyler Murray when they realized Rosen was the next huge bust.
How many rings they got?
Great analysis Perna. Losing a lot of games and getting high picks is easy. Turning those picks into a winner is not easy. The 76ers tank was a failure to me. They had 4 terrible years and drafted 1 superstar with the picks they got from selling everything off and sucking. And worst of all, with that superstar they've never made the conference finals. They subjected their fans to some of the worst basketball imaginable and ended up right back where they started before blowing it all up, a good playoff team but one who can't get over the hump.
They also messed up by signing Harden, a perennial quitter at every point that you need him not to be
I'm a steelers fan i trust their process even if i don't always agree with every decision
As a Browns fan it's gotten to the point where I cheer for teams if they have former Browns on them because it finally gives them a chance to succeed.
I pity Joe Thomas for basically wasting a Hall of Fame career.
I'd be interested to know which Hall of Famers have the lowest winning percentage and total wins in games they started.
The Browns wasted Baker.
As a Royals fan, this was painful to watch. But hey, at least we proved that sometimes terrible executives can get lucky
Nhl hockey teams do tank
As a Browns fan I can tell you when the phrase Trust The Process comes out of a GMs Mouth it is French for I, My Coaches, and everyone on the team should rent not buy our houses, Because they will be gone before the "rebuild" is over.
The reason it worked for teams like the Astros and the O's and not for others is that these teams looked at the whole system, and tore it down to the studs, overhauling everything from training/development to scouting and analysis. Which took a few years to really develop fruit of good teams, but by the time those teams show up, you got a scary good org from top to bottom
I say, believe in the process, unless you're a Packers fan. Then just pray Gute slips in the bathtub.
I think the most famous case where “The Process” actually worked was the Florida Marlins. From 1993-1996, they sucked, and then in 97 they won a championship. They proceeded to get rid of all their good players, sucked from 98-2002, and then won another championship in 2003. Of course it hasn’t worked so well since then, with no winning seasons since 2009. But for a while they got a whole bunch of credit for the “Win, blow it up, build back up, win again” Strat.