I kept seeing him and thinking "hey, that guy looks like a well-fed Josh Strife Hayes." Finally got a better look and realized "oh wow, that's him! ...I guess Josh Strife Hayes is a little better-fed than I thought."
I just hope that "oldschool mmo" means that the levelling IS the game. I am so tired of mmos rushing you through the levelling phase just to do endgame content I dont care for. I play mmos to explore the world and have fun with my friends/strangers that I meet on the way and no mmo since WoW classic has been able to replicate that feeling. Also seeing the team being a happy family really makes me happy. Thats how it's supposed ot be.
who is forcing you to rush to engame?wow has hundrets upon hundrets of hours of gameplay that involve zero engame,its proly among the best at this,there is so much to explore,do,collect etc etc
Heh, as someone who grew up on EverQuest 1 I have the opposite opinion. I want that brutal grind and slow gameplay cause it gave time for communities to form during the grind. I still remember some fun chats while grinding Velks. For me the journey was the best part.
Oh boy, do I ever agree with this comment. It used to be that you actually made a game where the actual gameplay was the focus (weird, no?) But this bizarre thing of fucking everyone else over just to cater for those who want to do repetitive end game stuff is beyond me. Why not just make a game for them? I always played games like WOW solo, loving just levelling up each character to the max and that was it. I don't get why this has been weirdly overlooked these days.
Game Dev companies with CEOs that just want to make a game they always wanted to play is IMO a good recipe to get something interesting and unique. It might be something in an undersefved niche like this type of MMO, or X4 for space games, or Baldurs Gate 3 for CRPGs, but it's probably not a soulless clone of something existing in the main stream.
The common problem is that "game I always wanted to play" is often based on rose-tinted player-side memories of old games. When you become a game developer, you should realise that most of the ideas you had for a "perfect game" have good reasons to not exist in good games. Unfortunately, Kickstarter doesn't filter the people who didn't learn that lesson, so plenty of passionate dev teams can still make terrible games (though they tend to not come out being "soulless").
What people say they want vs what people actually end up playing and paying for end up being wildy different. People claim to want innovation and something cool and new and fresh and blah blah, but then COD, AC, whatever yearly sports games, anything in a big long-running franchise/IP, become the best sellers.
Yeah, this video feels kind of weird, it feels like an ad, a lot of it so far has been very tangential to whether it's a scam and more veiled excitement for the game. Also a bit disingenuous to say he hasn't worked for them then go on to explain how he has worked as a consultant for them and been paid for it. Still, I don't think there's anything nefarious, just a weird tone. Callum thinks it's not a scam so there's the answer.
I understand that feeling of wanting to actually make friends in game, but then you have people like me who don't manage to make any friends. I spent a whole summer running around WoW and never even managed to be accepted into a guild. It's a different experience for Pint and for the new blood elf who doesn't know anyone.
Hah that's new wow for you mate, i still remember 17 years ago (damn i m old) i met a prieșt and a rogue lvling în silverpine forest, joined them and went în a cave full of spiders, died at the end and instead of ressing, they dueld till the spiders respawned and killed them. We are still friends till this day.
Wow, these guys and gals have come a very long way. It's been like a year since I remember hearing about this one. When I first found out about the game I was very curious. The only reason I decided not to continue with it was due to the fact that the game was moving slowly and there really wasn't much to do, plus it was very generic at the time. There was only one area and it was very basic. This isn't a scam, it's been around for awhile now and they have always seemed passionate.
I'm curious and wish for the best for Scars of Honour. I would really like it to succeed and to see all the races up close in game. I hope if it launches, it actually has some fun faction interactions. Not just for pvp, but like if you can even chat with the opposite faction.
What annoys me the most, is that i bought the Honored License Pack back in the late summer of 2023. Then they started to give us Subscribtion Models to play constantly (but not the ones who bought the pack). Now i only can play new content when i support via Kickstarter. Its a huge mess and a punch to the face, to all who supported the game in the past and in its beginnings with the Packs. Therefore i will not give them any further money till release. Thats my point. Do what you want to do.
I played the beta, about a year and a half ago, and the game seemed nice. It was still far from completion, but the foundations were quite solid for such an early build. Haven't partecipated in another beta since then, but I am looking forward to see how it will shape up.
On a related note; how's Nightmare World? I don't actively follow any news regarding it (only this channel) and it's been a while since a devlog came out.
I don't think Nightmare World was ever seriously in development. The dev logs were always focused on "look at this cool bucket our 3d artist made" instead of showing progress creating the actual core of the game. What's insane is that Callum's claim to fame is "exposing Dreamworld" as a scam game, but then he turns around and claims he's launching a MMORPG game with a massive team of people and ZERO FUNDING. The only person on the Nightmare World team who was reaping any benefit from the project was Callum, because it was driving traffic to his RUclips Channel. Callum never gave a fuck about NightmareWorld. He created an official RUclips channel for the project, just to turn around and continue posting all the dev logs on his channel. Literally half Callum's comments are people asking about Nightmare World, and yet he acts completely oblivious. Nobody gives a fuck about his stupid NFT videos. The only reason people started following him after Dreamworld was because people wanted to see this volunteer game development concept go somewhere, but the end result was honestly kind of pathetic. I used to like Callum's content, but he's stripped away anything interesting in favor of chasing the algorithm.
It's super refreshing to see you being able to praise an upcoming developer for a change. Not planning on playing myself, but this game looks really cool.
Social is nice but I like when it''s optional, even in a MMO. This seems like a good game but certainly not for me. I want to be able to play the main plot alone if I want to. I want to be able to choose, during my gameplay, WHEN to interact with people. Having it being a core mechanic? No thank you, I prefer solo queueing in Levelling Roulette on FFXIV.
I'm an introvert by nature ... but my best days in WoW were when I was in a big active, guild that yammered away about everything while we played .... as much as we played. Zerging a dungeon in retail WoW via dungeon finder is soulless and the opposite of fun.
That's how I found all my guilds back in early WoW. Join a group for some 5 man dungeons runs and we'd get chatting and find out they wanted to break into raiding and needed more people. The game completely lost that with the dungeon finder. I can count the number of times on my hand that I had a good conversation in a dungeon finder group, and then all being on different servers meant we'd go our separate ways afterwards. Gaming has worked too hard to remove the friction of social interaction.
8:35 It is, though. Their old conceptual "footage" looked much better than what's on the screen now. Whatever standard of graphics they were aiming for they definitely missed it :(
This video took me on a journey while driving to work. From wanting to hate a game, to me feeling bored and uninterested, to being very interested. I'd be down for getting it once it comes out
It's an kickstarter mmo, it's more likely than not to be a scam. Maybe they didn't plan it to be a scam, but they always are. Always a positive surprise when it is not.
Until you spoke about the cross-platform stuff it had me really excited. Another game that was designed like this was Albion online. That combat system and stuff is really what holds it back imho, they still need to keep in mind the mobile players.
Genuinely refreshing to see passion and competence from an indie dev team. What a cluster of novel concepts! Removing the stumbling block BEFORE you run into it. Utilizing the extensive knowledge base of the RUclips Cabal for your benefit instead of fighting them. CEO is hands on
Getting an old school runescape/guild wars vibe. Looks interesting and as a SUCKER for virtual gifts the idea of a virtual mansion sounds pretty sweet^^
So its not a scam, but it is a quixotic quest. I am sorry; but a million towards making an MMO is a drop in the bucket. Calling it retro or old-school wont change that fact. I have seen high-level systems maps of an MMO and the entire game is just one square on a large diagram. The other squares are things like 'data center', 'server fail-over cluster', 'pay system', '24x7 customer support system' and more. I don't know why people don't seem to follow that the only analog to launching a MMO is launching your own ISP. Could anyone launch an ISP with 1 million? I doubt 10 million is even close. What they should have done is take that million and make a solid single player or limited-scope multiplayer game and work their way up towards the 'Holy Grail' of making an MMO.
Hey there! Monetization will be focused around cosmetic purchases that let you customize everything about your appearances, without giving you any stat boosts.
I wonder if heavy social mmo's can still work. Nowadays, nearly every game is about efficiency and people will say "oh I wish things were like they used to be", but when something comes out that implements the old ways, people find it boring or tedious. I hope this MMO will be a succes, we'll see.
19:20 My only issue is that it creates an "in group". It's nice and all to see it as friends meeting up with friends, but it still makes a have and have-nots issue. The havers will only play with those that have and the have-nots will never have what the havers have because new people with bad gear no matter how skilled aren't welcome. There used to be flat damage scaling abilities that were good regardless of gear in WoW (see Rogue) but that ain't the case anymore. Everything is based on Item Level. Someone at 300 Ilevels deals 1000% less damage than someone at 350 Ilevel. The gap is massive, and it takes hours to increase it by even a bit. People have even less reason to ever consider helping a newbie.
there are ways they could help lower that which am excited to see reminds me of the PVE main mode of Fortnite where all weapons are level capped when your in a lower level area so yes you did get a upgraded item but your not gonna one shot everything OH an you can just drop down any item for anyone so no such thing as have nots lol
It's the problem I have with endgame, difficult content on FFXIV. How am I supposed to complete the fist time this difficult content if all recruiting groups only accept people who completed it at least once? But that is only a small part of the game not everyone does, not the main content.
@@00r0ry trying to remmber what game it was that had a function where a raid group of let say 20 was made up of 20 that where all had completed it several time there was no bonus drop. if 5 out of 20 had not done the raid, then first the 5 would have there own mini drop table of catch up gear and rewards. the other 15 people would then get access to a slightly increased drop table example the 2h axe half the raid was in there for would go from a drop rate of 1% to 2%. so there was always a intense to take if possible a few newbies whit you.
I've been wandering the internet looking for a game I can sink my time into recently, but, for me, a game looking for investors is a no-go. From my experience, investors have a tendency of making fun games into predatory cash cows. I get that it's expensive to make a game, especially an MMO, but once the genie is out of the bottle, it's very hard to put it back in, and if you get greedy investors who just want money and don't care about the game, which is most investors, then that's how you end up with games that are forbidden from taking exciting risks and have to be as accessible to the masses as possible and have to monetise in 500 different ways. Maybe I'll take another look at this game in a few years, once whatever investors this attracts have had a chance to sink their teeth into the management of this game, but right here and now, I don't have the heart to watch a game devolve before my eyes again into a greedy mess.
Dude, you've been paid to fly over there and consult with them. That is literally one of the definitions of "working for somebody." You are not EMPLOYED by them, but you are working for or at least with them.
Never heard of this game before this video, but I was won over with the discovery that I can play as a bear. I hope this game succeeds. I'll probably throw their kickstarter a few dollars to help.
Seems very much like a scam if they pay to fly you (and other small RUclips content creators) out 3 times to "consult". why would they care about your opinion? Sounds very unprofessional, you dont work for them, but they spend their donation money to fly u back and forth so many times, dont u think a phonecall would suffice? Discord is a thing you know?🤯 They should prolly spend it on real game devs that actually works on the game instead 🤣 Also (this is what I've been hearing, the initial launch is only PC, and god knows how long it will take to launch the mobile app), if this game is not on mobile, its just a wow clone with worse graphics than wow vanilla initially had, which is ancient and u can't even play it on mobile? EVEN IF IT WASN'T SCAM, my prediction is, this will never become anything and the people who donated will not get much out of their money anyhow, which essentially is same outcome as a scam. My comment sounds very negative and obviously im not here to only shit on you. I WISH games like this would become reality, But I learned from life (and especially runescape), if something sounds too good to be true, it prolly isn't. You are saying in the end of the video aswell they spend millions more than what was donated? ARE YOU SAYING THEY ARE SPENDING MILLIONS OF THEIR OWN MONEY? what are you implying? They like wow so they spend millions of their own money on a passion project? That sounds too crazy... ALL I SEE IS RED FLAGS 🚩
Sooooo, this was such good promotion that I had the Kickstarter app open within the first minute of the video and was looking at the game as you spoke. And I pretty quickly decided to get in on the Early Bird and back it because even if it turns out the game isn't my cup of tea (I'm usually a very solo player) I like what they're doing and want to show support. And then at the end of the video I realized you had a link I should have used. Sorry for jumping the gun and not giving you proper credit!
I don't want to say I'm excited because we all know how those usually go, but I'm cautiously optimistic about this game. A lot of that optimism comes from the fact that Josh and Callum are promoting it because I think Callum and Josh have built up enough goodwill to at least earn some faith for the project they are involved with.
The one way you can tell it’s real, is they’re making this thing currently at a loss, sure they may earn that money back through sales, but scams put no effort in and run with super cheap stuff to lose as little money they’re given as possible.
Not sure how to feel about the title of the video. Plenty of people just read headlines and video titles and then just make up opinions based on that without reading/watching. I've never heard about this MMO and this video got me really excited for it tbh, but if I didn't watch it I'd assume there's an MMO called Scars of Honor that is a scam. Also it was really cool seeing you and Josh in Bulgaria and meeting the devs!
hey! i actually ahve replied to you before but i'll post it here, it was listed on etsy a while back but no longer is. i hope its something you can find. i searched "Orchid Mantis Plushie" way back when i got it :D
@@CallumUpton sorry, i must have not noticed the notification or lost my memory or something. Thank you for the information! i think it is very original!
16:00 minutes in and I can't help but feel like this entire video is just a giant advertisement. I usually respect your work Callum, but I think you've really got too lost in your biases for this video. It's very hard to believe anything you're saying when you're so close to the project and endlessly gushing about every point of its development beside the state of the map. I can trust your opinion is truthful as you perceive it, but I'm not sure I trust your perspective in this case. This probably should have been a smaller, more unbiased video only highlighting your connections to the project and explaining why that makes it inappropriate for you to comment on.
As of this post, Scars of Honor didn't reach the funding goal on kickstarter. Either they didn't advertise enough, or the project was victimized by the past bad reputation of kickstarter. Not many reviews about it were made either, which is sad, as it shows nobody knew of this project. Lets hope they are able to find other methods to fund it.
Well glad it's not a scam, but hard pass on the old school nostalgia of people being friends in an MMO making the game loop core. Unless you invest ALOT into staff dealing with bans, filters and general help in keeping the worst people from being nasty assholes to other players, this is not my thing, and I don't see it taking off for your average player who wants to play online and will never have the numbers to make it sustainable. Not hoping it fails, more power to small teams making what they want, I hope it finds it's niche for enough people to work.
Just cosmetics on a visually simplified online game ? You attract whales with pay-to-win or pretty skins to brag in front of little fish. They will need to add a suscription, maybe as a battlepass or something similar. Maybe an end-game access ? Anyway good luck to them ! They seem to be good people doing their best.
Real Talk - What happened to Nightmare World? Is it abandoned? Is it silently in development? You got an investment offer a while back too, did you accept something that had you sign an NDA?
I think the rest of the Nightmare World team realized the only person who was reaping any benefit from the project was Callum, and so everybody just gave up
There was a priest I saw, was lucky to be in Dungeons/raids with who could do great heals and was always number one DPS. It was the WOTLK expansion and I wish I could remember the handle of the toon lol.
Dungeon finder was answer to people not being able to group up with others. It allowed more people to participate. Forced grouping is actually the largest aspect I depise in MMOs. Being content blocked because some groups just wont include anyone else. then there's the really bad design of roles, forcing specific team compositions. I'd rather just play a true co-op game.
Makes me sad that scams have become so common and sophisticated that it's starting to threaten the ability of legitimate projects to succeed. I think investors using crowd funding as a way to judge interest in a project is an abuse of the good will of backers and the intent of crowd funding, but there are projects that really need crowd funding to be possible, and it sucks that there are projects that likely will fail because it's become so difficult to tell what's real and what's just another scam. I don't blame people for their skepticism, I blame the crowd funding platforms for being too greedy to take real steps toward weeding out scams. Anyway, this looks like a cool game, I hope it's successful.
I absolutely agree with you except on the point of investors using KS to judge interest in the project... judging market interest in your project is one of the things Kickstarter is _supposed_ to be useful for, but the complete mismanagement of the platform has lead to the focus of projects being on crowdfunded money rather than successful projects. You used to be able to list a project and have backers indicate their interest with a nominal amount like $5, so the creator could understand the level of interest before they worked out the scale & cost of full production, as well as gather important data to help bring in large investors. They would then load their pledge tiers on the project page and if you still wanted to back it you could just pay the difference. Ideally most of the projects on KS would only require a portion of their project to be crowdfunded as that would dramatically increase the chances of success. Kickstarter crowdfunding is seed money for a project from the people who would be the end consumer... it's not a purchase of a fully costed-out product The problem is that KS does nothing to help the creators (who often have little to no business management experience & lack the skills to accurately cost out their project), nor the backers. It was supposed to help "kickstart" projects by connecting like-minded people to create niche products & art... but they've let it become GoFundMe for scammers and a minefield for legitimate projects to try to navigate.
TBF I feel there's a lot of that feeling of community you are talking about in FFXIV. Though I pretty much stopped playing a couple of years ago so I dunno if things have changed that much. However I always found myself conversing/befriending absolute strangers on there all the time. Their answer to the dungeon finder vs make your own party was to just have both. If you think you can beat whatever it is you're queueing for with any old random person you just queue up and get whoever you get. However if you feel you need more experience or someone with a decent item-level you just put your party on the party-finder, tells people what you are wanting to fight, who is already in your party, what i-level you want them to be, whether you want someone who's already beaten it before or not, etc, etc. It worked stupidly well, can't tell you how many times we were down a man for a raid and we put the party on the party-finder and 9/10 times we got an absolute beast join to help us that we end up adding to our friends list or linkshell so we can contact them again if we need them.
22:50 This right here is true in many ways. It's the reason why we still play games from the olden days. Yes, it looks bad. Yes, it might be nostalgia. But what we find in these games isn't the graphics, but in which we find them genuinely fun. It's why I still play old Gamecube and N64 games to this day, especially ones that I have never played before.
I really like the video and it is promising that you are sort of proud of the developer for laying down a network fundament first. However to me this is just too early in development to get me on board. As you mentioned in the video it feels a bit too heavy influenced by wow. I am getting "Hord vs Alliance with almost the same races and classes on a budget"-vibes. To be honest the addition of a pirate is the only thing that is different. If the the shadows, shaders and models are staying in the currently chosen style and artdirection it is a hard no for me. I don´t need hyperrealism, but I need something fresh. Too many games nowadays that are stylized are leaning to heavy into the WoW formular. Also the aoe particle effects displayed in their videos are too noisy. As they aim for Crossplay it is a sad reality that we won´t have an artstyle like Elden Ring. I will follow this but to be honest it´s more of a "let´s see how the game is doing when it´s out for 6 month" kind of situation.
Was sold before you even started the pitch. OG gamers know that tone of a project/team that is passion over profit. Its a new business model and that is reasonable to get that proof of concept/market demonstration to secure the last bit of distribution and release stabilization funding 👍
Nothing more fun than spamming LFG channels for 30 minutes to find a party, then walking another 20 minutes to a dungeon, and the tank has to go because something came up. Peak gameplay.
When has kickstarting a new MMO ever worked? If so, how many have actually succeeded? I think I'll pass. Too many of these types of titles fail to be worth the investment.
well , i dont know if this is a scam or ot ! but i have seen other youtubers give the impression it it free to play , BUT whe you go to sign up for this you need to pay . so im blaming these other you tubers for confusion and all too
16:11 Everquest too = Norath is their world name. I used to maintain two level 19 twinks - Alli Mage and Horde Rogue. When the cries of Twinks in the BG went out I logged in and started bullying them. There was a hunter that ran in fear from my rogue - chain sapping them for five minutes will do that ;)
I tend to think that playing a game on a pc and then playing on the phone is an issue with a gaming addiction lol. No thanks my phone is not a gaming machine to me.
The CEO sounds like the MMO version of Austin Meyer, just getting his head down and programming. (I know some aren't huge fans of Austin but I think he's a cool guy.)
Even if the game launches and is good, it just isn't my cup of tea so I don't have a horse in that race, but I will say that hiring the critics to consult instead of arguing with them on twitter (or worse, vague posting in update logs on discord) is a good sign. This company seems to have their heart in the right place, which is way more than you can say
I always hope and wish the best for game devs. Its never an easy job and its a lot of risk. It doesnt need to be the biggest and flashiest, just make it well with what it is and we will follow. Look at small games like vampire survivors! If its awesome, we will be flocking to play.
I'm sure this game is legit and all, but you made it seem like there was no bias, or conflict of interest here, and you should be able to recognize how big the conflict of interest is when you say stuff like, "They are like family," or, "I'm using their own networking solution for my own game," "They paid for my flights, and everything to consult." No matter how humble and ego free you are, all that stuff is such a bias because of course you are gonna be more excited for a game you are putting your own suggestions into, and then will financially benefit you in the long run because if they go broke and can't afford the upkeep on their own server/network then you are also screwed, unless you are talking about something different. Great video overall though.
They are aiming for a niche of a niche of a niche that is almost already saturated by bigger established names. Even if the game is stellar, I fear the target audience will not be big enough to justify the costs.
Why does the company who has so much going for it, need to ask the public for money though? There is no other way for investors to gauge interest without asking for money from random people, on a website known for producing video game scams? Just my opinion. Hopefully it’s good and real. Looks kinda cool! Great video as usual friend!
Investors are often idiots and like to stick to what they know even in rapidly evolving fields, they learn one way to gauge the potential popularity of something and stick with it even when the environment changes so that the developer's doing those things begins to leave a bad taste in potential fans mouths. Outside that they often rely on something that requires money down in some form in general (waitlists with a holding fee, crowdfunding, etc) as it is seen as (and often is for many things) more certain of the person's intent than something that requires no money down, even if it is a token fee that means basically nothing to the cost of the final product.
What other way is there? The most reliable way to see if people will pay for a game is to let them pay for the game. It is honestly how investing has always worked. You prove that other smaller investors believe in your idea to get more and bigger investors.
@@Sadreath yeah like how in China a lot of shows have a call to action at the start of episodes to hit follow an comment on each episode to up the chances of more seasons etc and some of these shows are already supported by overseas investors
Larian Studios did a kickstarter for DOS II even if they didnt need the money, kickstarter can be a good evalution of the public interest before the early access.
The Kickstarter page: www.kickstarter.com/projects/beastburst/scars-of-honor-the-community-driven-free-to-play-mmorpg?ref=d4v7f3
Ratiod
A wild Josh Strife Hayes appears.
I kept seeing him and thinking "hey, that guy looks like a well-fed Josh Strife Hayes." Finally got a better look and realized "oh wow, that's him! ...I guess Josh Strife Hayes is a little better-fed than I thought."
@@etzool This reads like something that needs a clip for Josh Strife Says
I believe you are mistaken. The vested gentleman was obviously Bulgarian Henry Cavill 🤭
Seriously expecting him to rise up behind Callum's chair and Agent47 him 😂
Understand the confusion, it is unusual to see him on first monitor
I just hope that "oldschool mmo" means that the levelling IS the game. I am so tired of mmos rushing you through the levelling phase just to do endgame content I dont care for. I play mmos to explore the world and have fun with my friends/strangers that I meet on the way and no mmo since WoW classic has been able to replicate that feeling.
Also seeing the team being a happy family really makes me happy. Thats how it's supposed ot be.
after a lot fo talking to the team they seem to be avoiding the "endgame meta" and are aiming more towards the leveling being the journey
who is forcing you to rush to engame?wow has hundrets upon hundrets of hours of gameplay that involve zero engame,its proly among the best at this,there is so much to explore,do,collect etc etc
@@deenman23 You know other games exist, right?
Heh, as someone who grew up on EverQuest 1 I have the opposite opinion. I want that brutal grind and slow gameplay cause it gave time for communities to form during the grind. I still remember some fun chats while grinding Velks. For me the journey was the best part.
Oh boy, do I ever agree with this comment.
It used to be that you actually made a game where the actual gameplay was the focus (weird, no?) But this bizarre thing of fucking everyone else over just to cater for those who want to do repetitive end game stuff is beyond me. Why not just make a game for them?
I always played games like WOW solo, loving just levelling up each character to the max and that was it.
I don't get why this has been weirdly overlooked these days.
to be fair a consultant is also a position in a company..
I'm glad one of these "Is it a scam?" type videos ended up with the answer: no
Game Dev companies with CEOs that just want to make a game they always wanted to play is IMO a good recipe to get something interesting and unique. It might be something in an undersefved niche like this type of MMO, or X4 for space games, or Baldurs Gate 3 for CRPGs, but it's probably not a soulless clone of something existing in the main stream.
The common problem is that "game I always wanted to play" is often based on rose-tinted player-side memories of old games. When you become a game developer, you should realise that most of the ideas you had for a "perfect game" have good reasons to not exist in good games. Unfortunately, Kickstarter doesn't filter the people who didn't learn that lesson, so plenty of passionate dev teams can still make terrible games (though they tend to not come out being "soulless").
What people say they want vs what people actually end up playing and paying for end up being wildy different. People claim to want innovation and something cool and new and fresh and blah blah, but then COD, AC, whatever yearly sports games, anything in a big long-running franchise/IP, become the best sellers.
Came for a scam video, got an extended ad instead
Yeah was disappointed. Says more about me I guess that I was sad there wasn’t another scam MMO out there to tear apart lol
@drfrankendoodle we're addicted to watch scam MMO game 😂
@@MorkeSD I mean scam videos are pretty funny though
The real scam was expecting a scam and not getting a scam. Total rug pull.
Yeah, this video feels kind of weird, it feels like an ad, a lot of it so far has been very tangential to whether it's a scam and more veiled excitement for the game. Also a bit disingenuous to say he hasn't worked for them then go on to explain how he has worked as a consultant for them and been paid for it.
Still, I don't think there's anything nefarious, just a weird tone. Callum thinks it's not a scam so there's the answer.
Been here when you started dream world. Thank you for your content and insight for the world around us!
thanks for the kind words, it means a lot
What happened to nightmare world ?
I understand that feeling of wanting to actually make friends in game, but then you have people like me who don't manage to make any friends. I spent a whole summer running around WoW and never even managed to be accepted into a guild. It's a different experience for Pint and for the new blood elf who doesn't know anyone.
Hah that's new wow for you mate, i still remember 17 years ago (damn i m old) i met a prieșt and a rogue lvling în silverpine forest, joined them and went în a cave full of spiders, died at the end and instead of ressing, they dueld till the spiders respawned and killed them. We are still friends till this day.
I kinda feel they should just start renting out their networking solution if it is this good. Seems like a good way to subsidize the development
down the line it likely will be something they do, its just not something that is complete in a way you would serve to a customer
@@CallumUptoni would like to get access to it somehow if its possible ❤
Wow, these guys and gals have come a very long way. It's been like a year since I remember hearing about this one. When I first found out about the game I was very curious. The only reason I decided not to continue with it was due to the fact that the game was moving slowly and there really wasn't much to do, plus it was very generic at the time. There was only one area and it was very basic.
This isn't a scam, it's been around for awhile now and they have always seemed passionate.
It's so rare to see an actually good project reviewed for once! So happy to see it.
I no longer want scam expose, i want real good game release and successful
I'm curious and wish for the best for Scars of Honour. I would really like it to succeed and to see all the races up close in game. I hope if it launches, it actually has some fun faction interactions. Not just for pvp, but like if you can even chat with the opposite faction.
What annoys me the most, is that i bought the Honored License Pack back in the late summer of 2023. Then they started to give us Subscribtion Models to play constantly (but not the ones who bought the pack). Now i only can play new content when i support via Kickstarter. Its a huge mess and a punch to the face, to all who supported the game in the past and in its beginnings with the Packs. Therefore i will not give them any further money till release. Thats my point. Do what you want to do.
this sounds hella scummy of them
I played the beta, about a year and a half ago, and the game seemed nice. It was still far from completion, but the foundations were quite solid for such an early build. Haven't partecipated in another beta since then, but I am looking forward to see how it will shape up.
On a related note; how's Nightmare World? I don't actively follow any news regarding it (only this channel) and it's been a while since a devlog came out.
I don't think Nightmare World was ever seriously in development. The dev logs were always focused on "look at this cool bucket our 3d artist made" instead of showing progress creating the actual core of the game.
What's insane is that Callum's claim to fame is "exposing Dreamworld" as a scam game, but then he turns around and claims he's launching a MMORPG game with a massive team of people and ZERO FUNDING.
The only person on the Nightmare World team who was reaping any benefit from the project was Callum, because it was driving traffic to his RUclips Channel. Callum never gave a fuck about NightmareWorld. He created an official RUclips channel for the project, just to turn around and continue posting all the dev logs on his channel.
Literally half Callum's comments are people asking about Nightmare World, and yet he acts completely oblivious. Nobody gives a fuck about his stupid NFT videos. The only reason people started following him after Dreamworld was because people wanted to see this volunteer game development concept go somewhere, but the end result was honestly kind of pathetic.
I used to like Callum's content, but he's stripped away anything interesting in favor of chasing the algorithm.
It's super refreshing to see you being able to praise an upcoming developer for a change. Not planning on playing myself, but this game looks really cool.
Social is nice but I like when it''s optional, even in a MMO.
This seems like a good game but certainly not for me. I want to be able to play the main plot alone if I want to. I want to be able to choose, during my gameplay, WHEN to interact with people. Having it being a core mechanic? No thank you, I prefer solo queueing in Levelling Roulette on FFXIV.
I'm an introvert by nature ... but my best days in WoW were when I was in a big active, guild that yammered away about everything while we played .... as much as we played. Zerging a dungeon in retail WoW via dungeon finder is soulless and the opposite of fun.
That's how I found all my guilds back in early WoW. Join a group for some 5 man dungeons runs and we'd get chatting and find out they wanted to break into raiding and needed more people. The game completely lost that with the dungeon finder. I can count the number of times on my hand that I had a good conversation in a dungeon finder group, and then all being on different servers meant we'd go our separate ways afterwards. Gaming has worked too hard to remove the friction of social interaction.
8:35 It is, though. Their old conceptual "footage" looked much better than what's on the screen now. Whatever standard of graphics they were aiming for they definitely missed it :(
This video took me on a journey while driving to work. From wanting to hate a game, to me feeling bored and uninterested, to being very interested. I'd be down for getting it once it comes out
Tfw term "old school mmo" only gives you idea about wasting as much time on most menial things ever
Between Callum and Josh Hayes both consulting on the mmo, I'd be willing to give this one a huge benefit of the doubt.
Kira says scam, Calum says not....battle of the ages.
We need Josh Strife Hayse to wiegh in to break the tie.
if you're refering to the Kira video, he actually says he doesnt think its a scam (assuming you are on about kiras video)
It's an kickstarter mmo, it's more likely than not to be a scam. Maybe they didn't plan it to be a scam, but they always are.
Always a positive surprise when it is not.
Until you spoke about the cross-platform stuff it had me really excited. Another game that was designed like this was Albion online. That combat system and stuff is really what holds it back imho, they still need to keep in mind the mobile players.
Great video, Would personally love to see you do updates on Dreamworld / Nightmare World and Earth 2 too.
Genuinely refreshing to see passion and competence from an indie dev team. What a cluster of novel concepts!
Removing the stumbling block BEFORE you run into it.
Utilizing the extensive knowledge base of the RUclips Cabal for your benefit instead of fighting them.
CEO is hands on
Getting an old school runescape/guild wars vibe. Looks interesting and as a SUCKER for virtual gifts the idea of a virtual mansion sounds pretty sweet^^
9500 Euro and you will get a mansion :D It is a big number but it is a hell of a package.
@@kashjirJesus Christ
So its not a scam, but it is a quixotic quest. I am sorry; but a million towards making an MMO is a drop in the bucket. Calling it retro or old-school wont change that fact. I have seen high-level systems maps of an MMO and the entire game is just one square on a large diagram. The other squares are things like 'data center', 'server fail-over cluster', 'pay system', '24x7 customer support system' and more. I don't know why people don't seem to follow that the only analog to launching a MMO is launching your own ISP. Could anyone launch an ISP with 1 million? I doubt 10 million is even close. What they should have done is take that million and make a solid single player or limited-scope multiplayer game and work their way up towards the 'Holy Grail' of making an MMO.
No pay to win, no microtransactions, and free to play ... I can't be the only one wondering, how will this product make money then?
Hey there! Monetization will be focused around cosmetic purchases that let you customize everything about your appearances, without giving you any stat boosts.
@ScarsofHonor
Since the kickstarter failed, do people get their money back, or do you keep it?
I wonder if heavy social mmo's can still work. Nowadays, nearly every game is about efficiency and people will say "oh I wish things were like they used to be", but when something comes out that implements the old ways, people find it boring or tedious. I hope this MMO will be a succes, we'll see.
19:20 My only issue is that it creates an "in group". It's nice and all to see it as friends meeting up with friends, but it still makes a have and have-nots issue. The havers will only play with those that have and the have-nots will never have what the havers have because new people with bad gear no matter how skilled aren't welcome. There used to be flat damage scaling abilities that were good regardless of gear in WoW (see Rogue) but that ain't the case anymore. Everything is based on Item Level. Someone at 300 Ilevels deals 1000% less damage than someone at 350 Ilevel. The gap is massive, and it takes hours to increase it by even a bit. People have even less reason to ever consider helping a newbie.
there are ways they could help lower that which am excited to see
reminds me of the PVE main mode of Fortnite where all weapons are level capped when your in a lower level area so yes you did get a upgraded item but your not gonna one shot everything OH an you can just drop down any item for anyone so no such thing as have nots lol
Its almost like a dev saying "lets take "levelling" out back and give it a ciggy, a blindfold and wall to stand next to" would be a good idea.
uuh this description @@elLooto
It's the problem I have with endgame, difficult content on FFXIV. How am I supposed to complete the fist time this difficult content if all recruiting groups only accept people who completed it at least once?
But that is only a small part of the game not everyone does, not the main content.
@@00r0ry trying to remmber what game it was that had a function where a raid group of let say 20 was made up of 20 that where all had completed it several time there was no bonus drop.
if 5 out of 20 had not done the raid, then first the 5 would have there own mini drop table of catch up gear and rewards.
the other 15 people would then get access to a slightly increased drop table example the 2h axe half the raid was in there for would go from a drop rate of 1% to 2%. so there was always a intense to take if possible a few newbies whit you.
I set my playback to 4k because the video seemed blurry only to realize the camera was just out of focus a bit. Lol.
I'm not huge on MMOs and such anymore, but it's cool to see an actual studio making an actual game these days.
you should revisit the oldies ... like chronicles of delirium, earth 2 and dreamworld! we need updates mah dude!
I've been wandering the internet looking for a game I can sink my time into recently, but, for me, a game looking for investors is a no-go. From my experience, investors have a tendency of making fun games into predatory cash cows. I get that it's expensive to make a game, especially an MMO, but once the genie is out of the bottle, it's very hard to put it back in, and if you get greedy investors who just want money and don't care about the game, which is most investors, then that's how you end up with games that are forbidden from taking exciting risks and have to be as accessible to the masses as possible and have to monetise in 500 different ways.
Maybe I'll take another look at this game in a few years, once whatever investors this attracts have had a chance to sink their teeth into the management of this game, but right here and now, I don't have the heart to watch a game devolve before my eyes again into a greedy mess.
@3:44 is that a wild JSH appearing casually in the video?
The vest, the jawline... It's either Josh or Henry Cavill.
Hard to tell....no tea cup in hand....very suspicious @@Marauding_Llama
Dude, you've been paid to fly over there and consult with them. That is literally one of the definitions of "working for somebody." You are not EMPLOYED by them, but you are working for or at least with them.
Man's obviously biased.
Never heard of this game before this video, but I was won over with the discovery that I can play as a bear. I hope this game succeeds. I'll probably throw their kickstarter a few dollars to help.
With all the scams we've had of late, its encouraging that there are developers trying to do right by their costumers.
Totally loving the fact that Josh Strife Hayes is gently smiling into the camera.
*Everything coming from Kickstarter can be considered a scam or con of some kind. DO NOT put money into anything at Kickstarter.*
Seems very much like a scam if they pay to fly you (and other small RUclips content creators) out 3 times to "consult". why would they care about your opinion?
Sounds very unprofessional, you dont work for them, but they spend their donation money to fly u back and forth so many times, dont u think a phonecall would suffice? Discord is a thing you know?🤯
They should prolly spend it on real game devs that actually works on the game instead 🤣
Also (this is what I've been hearing, the initial launch is only PC, and god knows how long it will take to launch the mobile app), if this game is not on mobile, its just a wow clone with worse graphics than wow vanilla initially had, which is ancient and u can't even play it on mobile?
EVEN IF IT WASN'T SCAM, my prediction is, this will never become anything and the people who donated will not get much out of their money anyhow, which essentially is same outcome as a scam.
My comment sounds very negative and obviously im not here to only shit on you. I WISH games like this would become reality, But I learned from life (and especially runescape), if something sounds too good to be true, it prolly isn't.
You are saying in the end of the video aswell they spend millions more than what was donated? ARE YOU SAYING THEY ARE SPENDING MILLIONS OF THEIR OWN MONEY? what are you implying? They like wow so they spend millions of their own money on a passion project? That sounds too crazy...
ALL I SEE IS RED FLAGS
🚩
Sooooo, this was such good promotion that I had the Kickstarter app open within the first minute of the video and was looking at the game as you spoke. And I pretty quickly decided to get in on the Early Bird and back it because even if it turns out the game isn't my cup of tea (I'm usually a very solo player) I like what they're doing and want to show support. And then at the end of the video I realized you had a link I should have used. Sorry for jumping the gun and not giving you proper credit!
I don't want to say I'm excited because we all know how those usually go, but I'm cautiously optimistic about this game. A lot of that optimism comes from the fact that Josh and Callum are promoting it because I think Callum and Josh have built up enough goodwill to at least earn some faith for the project they are involved with.
The one way you can tell it’s real, is they’re making this thing currently at a loss, sure they may earn that money back through sales, but scams put no effort in and run with super cheap stuff to lose as little money they’re given as possible.
Man that was a long 'I'm biased, they paid me to consult'
Not sure how to feel about the title of the video. Plenty of people just read headlines and video titles and then just make up opinions based on that without reading/watching. I've never heard about this MMO and this video got me really excited for it tbh, but if I didn't watch it I'd assume there's an MMO called Scars of Honor that is a scam.
Also it was really cool seeing you and Josh in Bulgaria and meeting the devs!
where did you get your bug friend? ive been asking for more information about this for a long time without answer.
hey! i actually ahve replied to you before but i'll post it here, it was listed on etsy a while back but no longer is. i hope its something you can find. i searched "Orchid Mantis Plushie" way back when i got it :D
@@CallumUpton sorry, i must have not noticed the notification or lost my memory or something. Thank you for the information! i think it is very original!
Bro first awesome vid, but has anyone noticed how healthy and good looking this dude has gotten! Idk what ya doing for ya health but its working
You should pay for a game, not for a game promisse. This is a scam
If only investors would know about this one simple trick
16:00 minutes in and I can't help but feel like this entire video is just a giant advertisement. I usually respect your work Callum, but I think you've really got too lost in your biases for this video. It's very hard to believe anything you're saying when you're so close to the project and endlessly gushing about every point of its development beside the state of the map. I can trust your opinion is truthful as you perceive it, but I'm not sure I trust your perspective in this case.
This probably should have been a smaller, more unbiased video only highlighting your connections to the project and explaining why that makes it inappropriate for you to comment on.
As of this post, Scars of Honor didn't reach the funding goal on kickstarter. Either they didn't advertise enough, or the project was victimized by the past bad reputation of kickstarter. Not many reviews about it were made either, which is sad, as it shows nobody knew of this project. Lets hope they are able to find other methods to fund it.
It is a scam, in the same way as the “Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing by filming on the actual moon” meme is a scam
Well glad it's not a scam, but hard pass on the old school nostalgia of people being friends in an MMO making the game loop core. Unless you invest ALOT into staff dealing with bans, filters and general help in keeping the worst people from being nasty assholes to other players, this is not my thing, and I don't see it taking off for your average player who wants to play online and will never have the numbers to make it sustainable.
Not hoping it fails, more power to small teams making what they want, I hope it finds it's niche for enough people to work.
Not gonna lie, you had me quite excited up till you mentioned they're too WOW inspired. I hope they'll back off of that a bit at least.
The hype will gone coz we need to wait another 2 years ++ for official release...good luck for scar of honor
Just cosmetics on a visually simplified online game ? You attract whales with pay-to-win or pretty skins to brag in front of little fish.
They will need to add a suscription, maybe as a battlepass or something similar. Maybe an end-game access ?
Anyway good luck to them ! They seem to be good people doing their best.
Real Talk - What happened to Nightmare World? Is it abandoned? Is it silently in development? You got an investment offer a while back too, did you accept something that had you sign an NDA?
What happened to Nightmare World?
I think the rest of the Nightmare World team realized the only person who was reaping any benefit from the project was Callum, and so everybody just gave up
There was a priest I saw, was lucky to be in Dungeons/raids with who could do great heals and was always number one DPS. It was the WOTLK expansion and I wish I could remember the handle of the toon lol.
Dungeon finder was answer to people not being able to group up with others. It allowed more people to participate.
Forced grouping is actually the largest aspect I depise in MMOs. Being content blocked because some groups just wont include anyone else. then there's the really bad design of roles, forcing specific team compositions.
I'd rather just play a true co-op game.
This is a comment.
Makes me sad that scams have become so common and sophisticated that it's starting to threaten the ability of legitimate projects to succeed. I think investors using crowd funding as a way to judge interest in a project is an abuse of the good will of backers and the intent of crowd funding, but there are projects that really need crowd funding to be possible, and it sucks that there are projects that likely will fail because it's become so difficult to tell what's real and what's just another scam. I don't blame people for their skepticism, I blame the crowd funding platforms for being too greedy to take real steps toward weeding out scams. Anyway, this looks like a cool game, I hope it's successful.
I absolutely agree with you except on the point of investors using KS to judge interest in the project... judging market interest in your project is one of the things Kickstarter is _supposed_ to be useful for, but the complete mismanagement of the platform has lead to the focus of projects being on crowdfunded money rather than successful projects.
You used to be able to list a project and have backers indicate their interest with a nominal amount like $5, so the creator could understand the level of interest before they worked out the scale & cost of full production, as well as gather important data to help bring in large investors. They would then load their pledge tiers on the project page and if you still wanted to back it you could just pay the difference.
Ideally most of the projects on KS would only require a portion of their project to be crowdfunded as that would dramatically increase the chances of success. Kickstarter crowdfunding is seed money for a project from the people who would be the end consumer... it's not a purchase of a fully costed-out product
The problem is that KS does nothing to help the creators (who often have little to no business management experience & lack the skills to accurately cost out their project), nor the backers. It was supposed to help "kickstart" projects by connecting like-minded people to create niche products & art... but they've let it become GoFundMe for scammers and a minefield for legitimate projects to try to navigate.
TBF I feel there's a lot of that feeling of community you are talking about in FFXIV. Though I pretty much stopped playing a couple of years ago so I dunno if things have changed that much. However I always found myself conversing/befriending absolute strangers on there all the time. Their answer to the dungeon finder vs make your own party was to just have both. If you think you can beat whatever it is you're queueing for with any old random person you just queue up and get whoever you get. However if you feel you need more experience or someone with a decent item-level you just put your party on the party-finder, tells people what you are wanting to fight, who is already in your party, what i-level you want them to be, whether you want someone who's already beaten it before or not, etc, etc. It worked stupidly well, can't tell you how many times we were down a man for a raid and we put the party on the party-finder and 9/10 times we got an absolute beast join to help us that we end up adding to our friends list or linkshell so we can contact them again if we need them.
22:50 This right here is true in many ways. It's the reason why we still play games from the olden days. Yes, it looks bad. Yes, it might be nostalgia. But what we find in these games isn't the graphics, but in which we find them genuinely fun. It's why I still play old Gamecube and N64 games to this day, especially ones that I have never played before.
I really like the video and it is promising that you are sort of proud of the developer for laying down a network fundament first. However to me this is just too early in development to get me on board. As you mentioned in the video it feels a bit too heavy influenced by wow. I am getting "Hord vs Alliance with almost the same races and classes on a budget"-vibes. To be honest the addition of a pirate is the only thing that is different. If the the shadows, shaders and models are staying in the currently chosen style and artdirection it is a hard no for me. I don´t need hyperrealism, but I need something fresh. Too many games nowadays that are stylized are leaning to heavy into the WoW formular. Also the aoe particle effects displayed in their videos are too noisy. As they aim for Crossplay it is a sad reality that we won´t have an artstyle like Elden Ring. I will follow this but to be honest it´s more of a "let´s see how the game is doing when it´s out for 6 month" kind of situation.
kickstarter or not, they really do need to change the resemblance to WoW.
Activision-Blizzard Lawyers now has Microsoft Lawyers in their corner!
Didn't expect to get an ad from this video. But I'm happy that I got to catch the Early Bird Pack on Kickstarter. Thanks @CallumUpton
Been a while since we heard anything about Earth 2, would be nice to get an update.
i've backed the game bc it looks like a lot of fun and even if i play palia, it still doesn't feel that social, y'know?
That they are consulting about their ideas sounds (at least to me) like a big flag that it is not a scam!
Was sold before you even started the pitch. OG gamers know that tone of a project/team that is passion over profit. Its a new business model and that is reasonable to get that proof of concept/market demonstration to secure the last bit of distribution and release stabilization funding
👍
Nothing more fun than spamming LFG channels for 30 minutes to find a party, then walking another 20 minutes to a dungeon, and the tank has to go because something came up. Peak gameplay.
you're saying I can be an orc pirate in this game? I'm sold
Well time to go back. I know you may not have intended to advertise it, but hell you sold me.
When has kickstarting a new MMO ever worked? If so, how many have actually succeeded? I think I'll pass. Too many of these types of titles fail to be worth the investment.
well , i dont know if this is a scam or ot ! but i have seen other youtubers give the impression it it free to play , BUT whe you go to sign up for this you need to pay . so im blaming these other you tubers for confusion and all too
Looks like a classic wow reskin.
Scars of Honor sounds more like the title of an Avatar the Last Airbender game made around Prince Zuko.
It's really nice to see work from people that really want to sit and make something. Really gives some good vibes ^^
16:11 Everquest too = Norath is their world name.
I used to maintain two level 19 twinks - Alli Mage and Horde Rogue. When the cries of Twinks in the BG went out I logged in and started bullying them. There was a hunter that ran in fear from my rogue - chain sapping them for five minutes will do that ;)
A game that you got paid for to "consult" on isn't a scam?
Shocker...
Looking good Callum! A little different but always nice to see a new video.
I tend to think that playing a game on a pc and then playing on the phone is an issue with a gaming addiction lol. No thanks my phone is not a gaming machine to me.
10:09 why does josh strife hayes look so unreasonably handsome? Is it the vest? is it a secret +20 charisma item?
The CEO sounds like the MMO version of Austin Meyer, just getting his head down and programming. (I know some aren't huge fans of Austin but I think he's a cool guy.)
Even if the game launches and is good, it just isn't my cup of tea so I don't have a horse in that race, but I will say that hiring the critics to consult instead of arguing with them on twitter (or worse, vague posting in update logs on discord) is a good sign. This company seems to have their heart in the right place, which is way more than you can say
I always hope and wish the best for game devs. Its never an easy job and its a lot of risk. It doesnt need to be the biggest and flashiest, just make it well with what it is and we will follow. Look at small games like vampire survivors! If its awesome, we will be flocking to play.
think there is just so much crap free to play mmo's out there that there isn't as big as a market for it anymore.
Well that's refreshing for a change. Put this on my radar :)
Old school MMO, on mobile, without tab targeting? Kinda lost me there.
great video as always keep it up! Ill keep an eye on this mmo.
I'm sure this game is legit and all, but you made it seem like there was no bias, or conflict of interest here, and you should be able to recognize how big the conflict of interest is when you say stuff like, "They are like family," or, "I'm using their own networking solution for my own game," "They paid for my flights, and everything to consult." No matter how humble and ego free you are, all that stuff is such a bias because of course you are gonna be more excited for a game you are putting your own suggestions into, and then will financially benefit you in the long run because if they go broke and can't afford the upkeep on their own server/network then you are also screwed, unless you are talking about something different. Great video overall though.
I mean he transparently stated that they flew him out there so you could easily infer that there's a bias in his reporting.
Ghaaargh, you got me. On my wishlist!
They are aiming for a niche of a niche of a niche that is almost already saturated by bigger established names.
Even if the game is stellar, I fear the target audience will not be big enough to justify the costs.
Why does the company who has so much going for it, need to ask the public for money though?
There is no other way for investors to gauge interest without asking for money from random people, on a website known for producing video game scams?
Just my opinion. Hopefully it’s good and real. Looks kinda cool!
Great video as usual friend!
Investors are often idiots and like to stick to what they know even in rapidly evolving fields, they learn one way to gauge the potential popularity of something and stick with it even when the environment changes so that the developer's doing those things begins to leave a bad taste in potential fans mouths.
Outside that they often rely on something that requires money down in some form in general (waitlists with a holding fee, crowdfunding, etc) as it is seen as (and often is for many things) more certain of the person's intent than something that requires no money down, even if it is a token fee that means basically nothing to the cost of the final product.
There's been quite a few successful game kickstarters, as well. you just only hear about the scams.
What other way is there? The most reliable way to see if people will pay for a game is to let them pay for the game.
It is honestly how investing has always worked. You prove that other smaller investors believe in your idea to get more and bigger investors.
@@Sadreath yeah like how in China a lot of shows have a call to action at the start of episodes to hit follow an comment on each episode to up the chances of more seasons etc and some of these shows are already supported by overseas investors
Larian Studios did a kickstarter for DOS II even if they didnt need the money, kickstarter can be a good evalution of the public interest before the early access.